The Big Flop - Anne Hathaway and James Franco’s Oscar Buzzkill with Bobby Finger and Lindsay Weber | 25

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

For the 83rd Academy Awards, producers wanted hosts that were "young and hip." But when they nominated Anne Hathaway and James Franco to run the show, they ended up with "nervous and bored". What followed was one of the most catastrophically awkward nights in Oscars history.Bobby Finger & Lindsey Weber from Who? Weekly join Misha for a peak behind that famous red curtain.Follow The Big Flop on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Big Flop early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to The Big Flop early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's the week before the 83rd Annual Academy Awards. Unlike past Oscar ceremonies emceed by veteran comedians and presenters, this Oscars is hosted by two young people with virtually none of those skills. James Franco and Anne Hathaway, rising Hollywood stars, are supposed to bring in a new, younger audience and raise the frickin' ratings. But they suck. The two have had zero to no chemistry since they've

started rehearsing, and now the producers and writers are in a state of panic. are in a state of panic. The night before the show, skits and jokes are being hastily rewritten. Nothing seems to be working for the two of them. But then, a glimmer of hope. On a closed-circuit TV monitor, a writer spots James on stage, all perked up,

flashing his delightful grin at his co-host, his performing partner, his on-air collaborator. Has the ice melted? Has the stoner jock fallen for the dorky cheerleader after all? Is this actually going to be a good show? Then the camera pans and the writer's stomach drops. Anne is backstage. The woman James is buddying up to is her stand-in. In less than 24 hours, James and Anne will walk out in front of millions of viewers in what many will consider the worst hosting job in Oscars history.

hosting job in Oscars history. The Academy Awards are getting all down with the kids by recruiting young actors James Pretty Boy Franco and Anne Hathaway. People said that you guys, you're young, you're hip, you're relevant. The thought is that the younger viewer will be tuning in. I'm trying to figure out which one I am. I think you're hip and I'm young. The Oscars sucked so bad that I feel it would be remiss of me

to not say, you took three hours of my life. We are on a sinking ship. From Wondery and at Will Media, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time. I'm Misha Brown, social media superstar and your hostess with the mostest at Don't Cross a Gay Man.

And today, we're talking about the 2011 Oscars, which wins the Razzie for worst Oscars. Hello, I'm Emily, and I'm one of the hosts of Terribly Famous, the show that takes you inside the lives of our biggest celebrities. And they don't get much bigger than the man who made badminton sexy. OK, maybe that's a stretch, but if I say pop star and shuttlecocks, you know who I'm talking about. No? Short shorts?

Free cocktails? Careless whispers? OK, last one. It's not Andrew Ridgely. Yep, that's right. It's Stone Cold icon George Michael. From teen pop sensation to one of the biggest solo artists on the planet, join us for our new series, George Michael's Fight for Freedom. From the outside, it looks like he has it all.

But behind the trademark dark sunglasses is a man in turmoil. George is trapped in a lie of his own making with a secret he feels would ruin him if the truth ever came out. Follow Terribly Famous wherever you listen to your podcasts or listen early and ad-free on Wondery Plus on Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app. On our show today, we have Lindsay Weber and Bobby Finger, co-hosts of the podcast Who Weekly. Welcome to the show. Hi.

Hi. Thanks for having us. Now, the Academy Awards need no introduction. In fact, I don't even need to specify which Academy, right? the Academy Awards need no introduction. In fact, I don't even need to specify which Academy, right? But before we get into the 2011 Oscars, I was thinking, like, what is your relationship to the Oscars? Do you watch them every year? Do you have a pool going? Do you watch all of the films nominated? I watch them every year. I've watched them every year since I was a teenager, probably. I try to have a party or at least go to a party and make punny foods. We do ballots. I get excited every single year in the months leading up to it.

It's one of my favorite days of every single year. So I'm a big, big fan of the Oscars. Yeah, Bobby is, I would say, the Oscars' dream participant in the Oscars. That's what they want. I also care a lot about the Oscars, but at this point, mostly for the movies and the Oscars. Like, that's what they want. I also care a lot about the Oscars, but at this point, mostly for, like, the movies and the social aspect.

Well, even before memeable embarrassments like hashtag OscarSoWhite or Moonlight vs. La La Land and The Slap, the must-see award show was pretty much a must-miss in the early aughts.

The broadcast was on a downward trend, having lost over 10 million viewers since its peak in 1998. You're about to hear how the 83rd Academy Awards became what many consider the worst ceremony of all time. For this episode, we want to credit Mara Reinstein's awesome reporting on this topic for The Ringer, where she spoke to many of the show's writers and producers. So, are we ready? I'm so ready. Let's go. Well, in 2010, Alec Baldwin and Steve Martin hosted the 82nd Annual Academy Awards. Their

Oscars hosting was fine, classy, quote, normal. Do you have any memories of that broadcast? I don't, none. I have vague memories of just like thinking it was normal. Well, despite their charisma and stage prowess, Baldwin and Martin represented an aging Academy. And the Academy worried that they would lose the public's interest if they

didn't do something to catch the younger demographic. Did somebody say revamp? I love a revamp. So it's late 2010, and the 2011 Oscars are just around the corner. This is a solid year for movies, where we had blockbuster films like The King's Speech, The Social Network, and Inception. where we had blockbuster films like The King's Speech, The Social Network, and Inception. The Academy hires a team to produce a new kind of ceremony. David Wilde, a veteran, Emmy-winning live event expert, is tapped to write for the show and come up with some forward-looking concepts. As is Big Flop favorite, writer Bruce Valanche, who also wrote for the doomed Star Wars holiday special that we covered a few episodes back.

No shade, Bruce, but this is the second flop you've been an integral part of, so I think you're going to have to come on the show if you're listening. Anyway, Wilde is initially excited to join, but quickly feels apprehension and skepticism that much can be done to spice up the Oscars. and skepticism that much can be done to spice up the Oscars. So, question. If you were given that opportunity, how would you try to liven up the Oscar ceremony? I wouldn't hire actors, I'll tell you that. I wouldn't hire actors. I would hire comedians. But also, as we've seen from the Golden Globe sort of debacle, and also the Oscars debacle,

it's always a crapshoot. If you want to try something new, even the old reliables are unreliable. So I don't know what I would do. I don't envy being an award show producer. It sounds absolutely miserable. Agreed. Well, the most significant lure for younger viewers will have to be the hosts. They need someone hip, young, and relevant.

Obviously, that can only be, drumroll please, Justin Timberlake. Is this the right choice for the host in 2011? I think he would have been better. A song and dance man who is outside of that world a little bit, but wants to get in and is like a super famous pop star. And I don't know. I think he could have been great. He probably would have put more effort into it than the person who replaced him. Right. Yeah. He was hot off his role as Sean Parker in David

Fincher's The Social Network and years before his Britney-based reckoning. He's flattered and says, no. Timberlake decides to wait a year to put some distance between his first big acting role and hosting the freaking Oscars. So I'm no talent strategist, but what's the thought process here? Would you have turned it down if you were him? I don't think I would have. I don't think it would have been that strange. If anything, it would have shown like, hey, I'm a triple threat, I guess. He is a dancer, so why not?

But I think if Justin Timberlake had said yes, I don't think we would have been having this conversation right now. Yeah, probably not. I think I'll put it that way. Should have done it. Should have done it. Yeah. So the ceremony producers, needing another option, pull two names out of a hat labeled under 35. out of a hat labeled under 35. They reach out to James Franco, who was 32 at the time, and Anne Hathaway, just 28 years old, who ends up as the youngest person to ever host the Oscars. Anne,

like Timberlake, initially declined, but then Franco signs up and she agrees to host with him. Writer David Wild, a variety special expert, gets the news that Hathaway and Franco are both in, and he's confused. Sure, the pair are young, they're in stuff, but there are two big problems. These are actors, not MCs. SNL aside, they don't have experience hosting.

And two, they don't know each other and have zero chemistry. David describes Franco and Hathaway's opposite vibes as, quote, the cool rocker stoner kid and the adorable theater camp cheerleader. One, taking it easy, while the other is desperate to get it right. So did those kinds of kids ever mesh well together in your high school? The theater kids in my high school did get along with other people. When the theater kids dated the non-theater kids, the other people were annoyed by it. But if you had a Hugh Jackman type, a younger Hugh Jackman

type who was the same age as Anne Hathaway, with Anne Hathaway, I think that's a completely different dynamic too. If you have the two theater kids feeding off of their very, very theater energy, that's fun. When one person isn't catching up. Remember Hugh and Anne had performed together when he hosted. She was part of his thing and it worked really well. And I think that was like a big, maybe one of the reasons why they wanted her back because she had done so well subbing in and it was so funny. And the two of them together were like electric.

It's like they needed a Hugh Jackman guy. They did not need a James Franco guy. A James Franco guy. But James Franco is a chameleon and I think he tricks. He's a trickster. And that's why they took him on. He said, I can do whatever.

And they were like, okay. They believe you. The youths love you. They love you. I mean. At that time. They did. I don't think I have to explain

who Anne Hathaway and James Franco are because they're still around. But let's remember where they were when they were chosen to host the Oscars. Bobby, Lindsay, in 2011, the two actors are both becoming superstars, but in very different ways. Do you recall what Anne was known for back then? The Devil Was Proud and Princess Diaries were probably her two biggest things. I guess she'd already done Brokeback Mountain. But she was trying to transition into like real adult dramas, romantic comedies, like interesting performances. And that's probably why she agreed to do it.

Because she was like, I'm trying to figure out where I fit in here in this like sort of Hollywood world. Right. And she was a year or so away from her Les Mis success. Yeah. I mean, what I love about Anne Hathaway back then was, if you think she's a rom-com star, she zigs to drama. If you think she's a serious actor, she zags and ends up in an action film. What about James? James was, I think, more known for comedies like Freaks and Geeks and Pineapple Express.

127 Hours was like a serious movie from a serious director, and he was doing a serious performance that, you know, gets Oscars attention. And he was also kind of in the same space. He wasn't going to do song and dance like Anne Hathaway, but he was going to transition to adult dramatic roles and not be silly anymore. He was also literally on General Hospital at the time, I think. Like, it's giving guy who never says no to anything because the experience is like the story. But I guess the stereotype of him was still stoner guy, jokey guy. Like, that's true for sure. You know, I love when you said he seems like someone that just doesn't say no. Because, you know, around town, James is almost better known for his hobbies than his acting.

You know, he was in his academia phase. Oh, yeah. So, to learn all about the non-acting things Franco was up to and simultaneously marvel at Miss Hathaway's range, let's play a game. So, here are the rules. I'm going to name an extracurricular title, and you tell me if it's something Hathaway plays in an acting role or Franco does in real life. Got it? Got it. First one, a poet. Oh, Franco. Franco. Yes, Franco. He published a 2014 collection called Directing Herbert White.

Who didn't at the time? So, Bobby, could you please read this snippet from the New York Times review? But is it, you may be wondering, good? No, but neither is it entirely bad. be wondering, good? No. But neither is it entirely bad. Directing Herbert White is the sort of collection written by reasonably talented MFA students in hundreds of MFA programs stretching from sea to shining sea, which is perhaps not surprising since Franco actually has an MFA in poetry. Drag him. Drag him to hell. Drag him to hell. I mean, a lot of celebrities who write poetry books don't have an MFA.

So to have one and it's bad is kind of great. All right. Second one, a painter. Did she play a painter in anything? He definitely painted. I remember seeing his paintings. They were awful. And he had all these assistants who would paint them.

So it's Franco. It is James Franco. Before he started his acting to overcome shyness, James was a classically trained painter. Here's a photo. Fat dog. It's a painting of a fat dog. It says fat corgi above it. There's a random heart, but the dripping red paint, like letters. It's also like a horror flick. I don't know. It's very strange. Fetched Corgi. This fat animal. Who owns these now? I feel like they've gone so down in value. I almost feel bad for the collectors, you know?

All right, third one, a biologist. I'm going to guess Anne Hathaway. She must have played a biologist at some point. I don't think that- I'm going to say Franco. Oh, you're going to say Franco? I don't know. It was Anne Hathaway.

She plays a biologist who seeks to colonize a planet in Interstellar when Earth becomes less and less habitable. Of course, of course. All right. Next one. A pilot. I'm going to guess James Franco. Wasn't he in some World War II thing where he played a pilot? I'll say James Franco, too.

Kind of a trick question. It was both of them. So he got his pilot license in preparation for the film Flyboys. Uh, I'll say James Franco, too. Kind of a trick question. It was both of them. So, he got his pilot license in preparation for the film Flyboys. Normal. There we go. Because of insurance reasons, he never actually did it for the movie. And Anne played a fighter pilot in a stage play called Grounded.

Oh, good for her. Didn't know about that. I love that. Anne's like, I'm normal. I'm just going to be in a play. He's like, I'm going to get my pilot's license and then not even be able to use it. Like, man loves to waste his dang time. Well, David Wild and his team start scripting for Anne and James. They're both so impressive, so this should be easy.

But it becomes immediately apparent that they are a terrible match. The two have incompatible working styles. Anne is serious and engaged, inviting producers over to prepare for the show together. James, on the other hand, frequently goes off grid and is impossible to get a hold of. Producers say, sure, he's a great guy, but he often shows up looking like he just woke up from a nap. Needless to say, there's friction.

Does it surprise you that they wouldn't necessarily get along? No. No, but I think that was supposed to be the magic in it. Well, let's listen to this cry for help. I mean, promo, teasing the ceremony, where the two hosts talk about their incredible rapport. James, can you describe our chemistry?

I love it. You know. Me too. There's nothing like performing live. And, you know, if you make mistakes mistakes they become a part of the show. Do you feel the electricity? So strange. It is weird that after that they let it go on.

You can't tell if it's almost like filming it and probably producing that little spot, whatever it was for. Must think that something magical is going to come out of the fact that these two are not aligned and not on the same page. But instead, it just is just awkward. Don't you think it's kind of giving, though?

Everyone's watching that and having the same thought, but thinking to themselves, well, somebody okayed this, so they must see something that I don't. So we're just going to see what happens. Even Anne Hathaway's vibe is kind of like, somebody thinks this is going to work, so I'm going to make it work. Well, one of the show's writers, Megan Amram, said she was more or less brought on as a youth consultant, but didn't have much influence in the room.

She remembers Hathaway being especially desperate for someone like her to steer the ship. According to Amram, Hathaway pulled her into a dimly lit storage closet to have a one-on-one, and there she imprinted on Amram that she wanted the writing to reflect well on women and for the show to have a strong female perspective. And when I saw that, I was like, what does that say that both the star of the show and one of the only female writers have to have this convo in a closet rather than in front of the producers or senior writers? Also, isn't Megan Amram like 23 years old at this point too? Like, what can she do? Like, truly, what can she do? Yeah.

What can she do? Like, truly, what can she do? Yeah. Well, instead of creating anything resembling a strong female perspective, writers draft a sketch that involves Anne dressed in a tux and James in a gown and wig. Why? The reasoning behind this is thin. The movie Burlesque, starring Cher, was rumored to be up for Best Song nomination,

so I guess this was a nod. And since Burlesque got snub, was rumored to be up for Best Song nomination, so I guess this was a nod. And since Burlesque got snubbed, the sketch got cut. But James still wanted to dress up. Writer Bruce Valanche wishes he'd never had the idea to pitch Franco an alternative, to dress up as Marilyn Monroe. In Valanche's words, quote, I regret encouraging him to do it. There was no share for him to play with, but he had gotten the drag bug.

So how much do you know about these awkward moments that can make it through so many rounds of edits and rehearsals? Well, we're not TV writers, so we don't have the experience of being in a room and having that kind of ironing out of a single moment. I don't know what it's like to have a bit get kind of spun into infinity and then it's barely a

whisper of what it once was. But didn't James Franco want to dress up as Cher? That was his goal. He was like, I want to do Cher drag, specifically. So, he had a girlie in mind and they should not have shifted him to someone else. Well, I mean, bits are being cut left and right since nobody can agree on the direction of the show. Even some that sound pretty funny.

In rehearsal, a sketch starring Will Arnett streaking across the stage, harking back to the 1974 incident where someone actually did that goes really well. But producers want a bigger name, like Jim Carrey. So Valanche has to regrettably email Arnett to tell him the bit was cut and he got buck naked on stage for absolutely nothing. I'm assuming Carrey had better things to do that day.

Probably. If a man wants to streak naked for a bit, let him. Who are we to distinguish what man would be better? Oh, this man is not big enough of a star. Oh no, it's Will Arnetta, not Jim Carrey, so we gotta scratch the whole thing. It's like, people laugh at naked men on television. You know, they will laugh at it. Another sketch that never makes it to prime time is a spoof on every young, hip person's favorite movie.

The 1978 film, Grease. According to the writer herself, Megan Amram, the parody lyrics are distasteful and fall flat. So it's hard to make light of what happens in 127 hours. But they somehow try. Let me try to do this joke song justice. Are you ready? You better shape up, cause you need a host. And you're a sexy amputee.

You better shape up, cause they need a host. Who is not AARP? Awful. The last line's pretty good. It is just funny that they're trying to do so many things at once where it's like, appeal to the young people. You're right. With James Franco and Anne Hathaway, but

they know a lot of old people are watching, so Anne Hathaway and James Franco have to be singing Grease, but they want to appeal to the young people, so they have to make fun of the old people while they're doing Grease drag. It's just a total tonal mess. Exactly. From top to bottom. It's a ceremony that was written out of fear in a way.

Like it was like, they're so worried about flopping and they're so worried about the young people not showing up and they're so worried about the old people revolting that like, it's just a mess. Yeah. Well, you can get a sense of where things stand three days before the broadcast in this Access Hollywood interview.

But there must be some pieces inside that you're like, oh, can we pull it off, that you're still trying to... We're still, I mean, yeah, there's a lot we're writing, and the jokes are being shuffled around, and it's amazing. Some things are like, well, maybe that won't work, and for example, the monologue, but we can have it as like a quick joke before we do a presentation of something. And it's, so much work has gone into it,

and Bruce and Don are producers i think are idiot proofing the show so i think we'll be okay all right not idiot proofing while he stands there like looking like what am i eating for lunch and like that clip is so i think exemplary of the entire oscars of that year and like what the truth is because you look back and it's like, oh, James Franco and Anne Hathaway were so bad and embarrassing. And it's like, not really. Only James was. And I think the concept generally was embarrassing. But look at Anne Hathaway trying her hardest in that clip to make Maria Menounos happy. And she's like, all I want is Maria Menounos to be happy. And James Franco is like, who is Maria Menounos? What am I doing here?

Get me away. Truly. And I think my like take from this entire thing of rewatching and thinking about it again was like, if Anne Hathaway was just by herself doing it, we would not be having this conversation. Would we say, remember when Anne Hathaway hosted the Oscars and it was like kind of extra and she like did a lot of song and dance and it didn't help people thinking that she was kind of annoying. Sure. Like definitely we still would have thought she was annoying for a few more years before she became like diva queen. But at that point it wouldn't have shifted anyone's take on her and she would have done a actually

serviceable job because the moments that she's by herself are great. And she's a good singer and she's a good performer and she's a good host. And it's like, it's really him that I think is the issue here that people don't say enough. They don't say enough. It's not Annie. It's not Annie. Don't blame Annie. Yeah. Well, while writer David Wilde is doing his best to write material for the upcoming show, the stars panic and each bring on a last-minute consultant. Mega producer Judd Apatow helps his buddy James wrangle four additional writers, while Anne hires Liz Feldman to save the day, who would go on to create Dead to Me. Everyone is moving in different directions and nobody trusts anybody. So consider the team that you'd be on at this point. Team don't give a care with James or team need to fix it now with Anne. Me, the theater kid, I'm with Anne.

I need to fix it. I'm with Anne all the way. Yeah. I don't know how you wouldn't want to fix it. You have to go on live TV and not be laughed I'm with Anne all the way. and who thinks that movies are fun and who thinks that movies are cool. And the defeatist, like, James Franco attitude is just like, as a viewer, so dumb. And it's condescending. It's like, wait, I'm watching this because I like it. So don't make fun of me, you know? Yeah. On February 27th, the new and improved Cool Young Oscars kick off. A cold open featurette starring the two hosts plays before the audience.

Do either of you remember what the cold open was? Yeah, they were in Inception and the plot was to like get into Alec Baldwin's mind to figure out how to host the Oscars. So they were like, we're going to go into Alec Baldwin's mind and get some tips. And they traveled down the elevator

and every floor they got out of was like a different movie. And it was funny as all of those things are. Them and True Grit loved it. Yeah, I laughed at that. That's what I was going to say when they rolled up on the horse and she has two eye patches. I thought that was hilarious. That was funny. They're actors. That stuff is good. That's not live TV. That's, let's get another take. Can you do it a little bit like this? They're able to follow good direction and not prove that

maybe that should have been more of it or something. You know, not necessarily the pre-taped stuff, but more stuff that involved them acting. Yeah, the cold open was a hit. The audience is laughing. Things are off to a great start. Right. Once the short film wraps up, the announcer's voice booms over the auditorium. The show is about to begin.

The crowd erupts with applause. The curtain rises. Spotlights hit the hot young hosts. But as James and Anne make their way out onto the stage, something feels off right from the jump. Anne floats

onto the stage, very Hollywood glam, but she seems pretty nervous. Cl clutching her dress, wringing her hands, unsure of herself. James is chiller. He walks out smirking, but immediately something is unusual. He's holding his phone, recording the crowd so that he can post a video to Twitter. Rude. So is this the cool, young, youthful vibe the Oscars are going for? Is this what they were signing up for? I mean, I don't know. I think they didn't realize that's what they were signing up for,

but when they hired James Franco, that's what they signed up for. And they were trying to pretend like it wasn't the case. The stunt lacks the charm and inclusiveness of the celebrity selfie that host Ellen DeGeneres takes a few years later in 2014. Out of the gate, James looks disconnected from his co-host and from the audience entirely. Hathaway counters with a saccharine, Oh my gosh, you're all real. This is actually happening. Clonk. While Franco just says, wow. What follows is several cringy minutes of stilted back and forth. Now, I'd love to have you listen

to the actual performance, but the Academy is pretty notoriously litigious about playing clips. So in order to avoid a lawsuit, I'd like to try something. Bobby, Lindsay, with your help, an Oscar-worthy performance. Let's do it. We can't do worse than they did, so I'm sure. So who would like to be Anne? Who would like to be James? I think Bobby needs to be Anne Hathaway and I need to be James Franco. Perfect. I need to be James Franco. Perfect.

You nervous? Uh, no. Come on. You must want to win a little bit. I mean, I don't know. What do you get if you win? You get an Oscar. Yeah, but like, do I get money with it or?

No, you will get prestige. For the rest of your life, everyone will refer to you as Academy Award winner James Franco. What do you mean everyone? Like even my mom? That'd be weird if my mom called me Academy Award winner James Franco. What do you mean, everyone? Like, even my mom? That'd be weird if my mom called me Academy Award winner James Franco. I've known her a long time. And scene. The jokes aren't that terrible on paper, I guess.

No. You know? And theoretically, the humor in Anne Hathaway, a tryhard not getting nominated for an Oscar, and James Franco, who doesn't give a crap, being nominated is a very funny place to start if they had gotten to what was funny about that maybe in the jokes. But like, I understand wanting to start with that because it is funny. Like him being like, oh, I thought you were nominated. Like, why are you here then? That's funny. It's just, I mean, it's on the writers, honestly, to not have captured what is funny about that. Especially after reading that Ringer story, like you get the sense that like, it really was all hands on deck. Like they had to figure out

how to fix the dynamic between these two people that they were stuck with. Yeah. David Wilde sums up the whole opener as an awkward blind date, which would make sense if the two hadn't been through tons of prep and rehearsals. According to David, who's busy rehearsing with the other presenters during the show, there's a palpable tension backstage.

And as the show goes on, the energy continues to sour. Do you remember any other moments from the show that were uncomfortable? No. She sang On My Own with new lyrics. Does that count? Remember that? Because the point was Hugh Jackman left her alone this year, which is actually even funnier now in retrospect because she was flopping with a new host.

So she was like, Hugh Jackman, you're in the audience, Wolverine, get up here and help me. And he was like, no, no, no, I'm in my mask era. I am Wolverine this year. And like, conceptually funny, actually, I don't know if her singing at that point was going to be doing anything. Although ironically, she would be winning for that next year. So it's like, she should have been careful with that song, I think. Well, instead of playing off of each other, the hosts diverge, becoming more enthusiastic and unenthusiastic, respectively. Between awards, the duo perform songs and bits, but nothing's landing. The jokes feel dated, and the pair limps to the end of the show. Finally,

the king's speech wins best picture, and the broadcast is mercifully over. Now usually, there are parties and once-in-a-lifetime events to attend after the Oscars, but Franco doesn't bother. He gets the F out of there. After the ceremony wraps, he boards a red-eye from L.A. to New York City so he can make his 9.30 a.m. class

on medieval manuscripts the next day. His professor is pleasantly surprised that he's shown up. If only he'd shown up for Anne. Now, the show ends up attracting 37.6 million viewers, 10% less than the year before. To be fair, that's still better than the numbers they got in 2008 or 2009. But the reviews are bad. Critics call the show everything from embarrassing to lazy to spectacularly unwatchable.

So let's read a couple of quotes from reviews of the night. Lindsay, will you read this quote from Salon? Sure. A great big middle-of-the-road splat presided over by a momentarily uncomfortable pair of stars, the miffed-looking James Franco, and the perky-like-a-little-coffee-pot Anne Hathaway. Rude. Bobby, will you read this quote from Rolling Stone? Suffice to say, it was a strange Oscar show all around. Franco probably wasn't the only one who considered amputating his arm to escape.

Good. Yikes. Easy. Easy but fair. Yeah. Easy but fair. Writers Valanche and Wilde really took it to heart. Quote,

I call it an incredibly dark, significant comic event in my life, Wilde told The Ringer, adding, it's taken me 10 years to feel happy that I was a part of it. But Valanche grimly joked, quote, I think its legacy is floating somewhere near the Costa Concordia, referencing a cruise ship that sank in 2012. Both hosts have reflected on the experience since. One of the most prevalent theories about James' low energy was that he was on drugs. In response, he jokingly ribbed his former co-host by saying, quote,

the Tasmanian devil would have looked stoned next to Anne Hathaway. Here's Anne in an interview years later wishing she had never agreed to host. Hey, can I dish some tea? Yes, you can. Can I dish some tea about this one? Yeah, please do. I turned that gig down, and James is the one that convinced me to do it. What was he, a practical joker?

Was this an evil plan? If he turned around and said, I'm pranking you right now, I think I would have been okay with it. Your first instinct is usually the right one. And all the reasons why I turned it down came true. But that wasn't that long ago that she said that too. So it's like she had 10 years of grace. She literally is now diva mom queen.

Now, of course, she feels comfortable to say that. Meanwhile, we're back to Jimmy Kimmel. So it's like, how far have we come? We haven't come far at all. That was a failed experiment. And now Billy Crystal will be wheeled out if he says yes, because they don't have, you know, they really did not come up with the next generation of Oscar hosts at all. So it's just going to be maybe what it should have been all along. Hosts of other stuff.

Make hosts of other stuff host the Oscars, too. It should be in their contract. You know what I mean? Like, if you're an ABC guy, you are going to be hosting the Oscars at one point. Well, let's do a little, where are they now? Elephant in the room. In 2018, James Franco was accused of misconduct and sued by multiple students at his acting company and settled without admitting any wrongdoing for $2.2 million. After the settlement, he more or less disappeared from acting

and even had a falling out with stoner bro Seth Rogen. But he's dipping his toes back into feature films now, including with an upcoming movie where he'll play Fidel Castro? Sure. It's Don't Care Central with James Franco at this point. And Hathaway has gone on to win her very own Oscar. She won for playing Fantine in Les Miserables. Shortly after hosting,

she did experience some personality-based backlash. Some people took issue with her over-the-top, earnest sweetness, but she's recovered since. Writer David Wilde continues to produce and consult for award shows and TV specials, everything from Grammys to the National Christmas Tree Lightings. At age 75, Valanche is still working as a comedy writer. That's some longevity.

And Megan Amram is no longer the rookie. She's been writing and consulting and producing for shows like The Simpsons and The Good Place. Heard of them? The Oscars is both floundering and succeeding in a very new TV landscape where everyone streams most things. Its ratings are half of what they were in 2011, but 18.5 million viewers tuned in to the 2023 ceremony. Here on The Big Flop, we do like to try to be positive. So are there any silver linings that you can think of from this Oscar ceremony? Some good stuff did win.

We were still sort of like pre the Academy diversifying its membership and sort of like reckoning with their like uncomfortable like racial history. But when you look at the winners of movies that year, yeah, The King's Speech is a bore. Like who's watching The King's Speech in 2024 even thinking about The King's Speech in 2024.

But Natalie Portman won for Black Swan that year and that movie has like gone down as a true kind of masterpiece and kind of like a campy classic. Like people love Black Swan. Like Black Swan is still like part of the conversation. And the social network score won.

That was huge. Yeah, the social network score. Love that score. Okay. But also when it comes to the host, it was like, there's nothing better for a viewer than like a fun flop. And like the

Oscars deserve a little bit of punching, you know, they're, they're this institution and Oscars so white would come later, but like the Oscars needed a shakeup. And this maybe was like a little bit of, of that unsteady ground, you know, it's almost like you had to go through this to get to that, to get to, to this. And so in a way, you know, not the worst thing that could have happened on television. Certainly worse things have happened. So now that we all know about the infamous 2011 Oscars, would you consider this a baby flop, a big flop, or a mega flop? I mean, in terms of the Oscars history, I would call this a baby flop because institutionally they've flopped harder and they'll continue to flop, you know? Yeah.

I'd probably call it a big flop. At the time, it seemed like a mega flop, but I really don't think it was. You know, like, I think it's just a big flop all around. Well, thanks so much to our guests, Lindsay Weber weber and bobby finger for joining us here on the big flop and thanks to all of you for listening we'll be back next week with another celebrity flopper our guests might have heard of the infamous liver king bye Bye. If you like The Big Flop, you can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app

or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. The Big Flop is a production of Wondery and At Will Media, hosted by me, Misha Brown. Produced by Sequoia Thomas, Harry Huggins, and Tina Turner. Written by Anna Rubinova. Engineered by Andrew Holtzberger.

Our story editor is Drew Beebe. Our managing producer is Molly Getman. Our executive producers are Kate Walsh and Will Malnati for At Will Media. Legal support by Carolyn Levin of Miller, Korzenik, Summers, and Raymond. Producers for Wondery are Matt Beagle and Grant Rudder. Senior story editor is Phyllis Fletcher. Managing producer is Joe Florentino.

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