The Big Flop - Crystal Pepsi: It's Clear This Ain't Working with Dulcé Sloan | 10

Episode Date: October 30, 2023

When you think of health and wellness, do you think…clear soda? One Pepsi executive in the 90s was determined to capitalize on the healthier soda trend by releasing Crystal Pepsi, a clear, caffeine-free, lower calorie soda with the same great taste of regular Pepsi. The only issue? It didn’t taste anything like regular Pepsi. Dulcé Sloan (The Daily Show) joins Misha to digest one of the most infamous flops in pop culture history, AND to uncover Coca-Cola’s secret shocking plan to sabotage the whole campaign.Follow The Big Flop on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Big Flop early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to The Big Flop early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. A YouTuber who goes by the name LA Beast is a professional competitive eater. He's broken a bunch of Guinness World Records, like eating the most chicken nuggets in under three minutes and drinking almost a liter of maple syrup in just over 10 seconds. So when he announces on his YouTube channel that he's extra excited to try something new, you gotta be a little intrigued. Today, I'm gonna relive my childhood memories. I bought a 20-year-old bottle of Crystal Pepsi.

Crystal Pepsi. It was named Best New Product of the Year for 1992 and dazzled potential customers when it hit the market, all because it was completely clear. But LA Beast's 20-year-old bottle was not. And as you can clearly see, it's yellow. Presumably, the folks at Pepsi didn't anticipate anyone drinking a bottle that old, but LA Beast is literally a record-breaking eater and drinker. A little discoloration isn't going to stop him. He opens the cap. He slurps it down. And then he seems to notice a problem.

Is it supposed to sit there in your stomach like that? That would feel so good. And with that, LA Beast barfs. Now, look, is it fair to judge Crystal Pepsi from a 20-year-old bottle? Probably not. But let's just say, there are plenty of other things you can judge it on,

like its weird taste and over-ambitious marketing campaign. So come along for the carbonated clown show that was Crystal Pepsi. Hello, I'm Emily, and I'm one of the hosts of Terribly Famous, the show that takes you inside the lives of our biggest celebrities. And they don't get much bigger than the man who made badminton sexy. Okay, maybe that's a stretch, but if I say pop star and shuttlecocks, you know who I'm talking about. No? Short shorts? Free cocktails? Careless whispers? Okay, last one. It's not Andrew Ridgely.

Yep, that's right. It's stone cold icon George Michael. From teen pop sensation to one of the biggest solo artists on the planet, join us for our new series, George Michael's Fight for Freedom. From the outside, it looks like he has it all, but behind the trademark dark sunglasses is a man in turmoil. George is trapped in a lie of his own making, with a secret he feels would ruin him if the truth ever came out. Follow Terribly Famous wherever you listen to your podcasts, or listen early and ad-free on Wondery Plus on Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app. The battle between Pepsi and Coke isn't really a battle, it's an all-out war. They will do anything to savage each other.

Yeah, this definitely has an element of the normal Pepsi that's missing. From Wondery and Atwill Media, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time. I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar and your bubbly best friend at Don't Cross a Gay Man. And today, we are raising a glass to Crystal Pepsi. here to help me unscrew the cap on crystal pepsi is daily show correspondent and host of the great American joke-off, Dulce Sloan. Welcome to the show. Hello, friend. How are you today?

I'm all right, just running around. So my first question for you to start us off is, are you more of a Coke person or a Pepsi person? Coke, a group in Atlanta. Love that. Usually here at The Big Flop, we look for a protagonist in our stories, an eccentric tech billionaire or some executive. But in order to talk about Crystal Pepsi, we first have to talk about the rivalry that's plagued the company

since its founding, Coke versus Pepsi. I mean, what's your opinion on this rivalry? Obviously, we're Coke girlies here, but is it good for their business? People love a rivalry. We love a rivalry. We love a underdog, although both of them are billionaires. Yeah, I think they're both winning, honestly. But it is one of the most iconic rivalries we have, at least in the food space here in the U.S. But let's bubble on back to yesteryear, specifically to 1886, because that is the year that Coca-Cola is invented. And it was just 12 years later that

baby brother Pepsi is born. And fun fact, Pepsi was originally named Brad's Drink. And when I saw that, I was like, who is Brad? How tall is he? Is he a tall drink himself? Right. And let me tell you, from the get-go, Pepsi is the problem child in their big beverage family. So much so that they go bankrupt twice. Once in 1923 and again in 1931. That's depression era bankruptcies. I don't know if those count. In all fairness, one of the times Pepsi goes bankrupt is because of sugar rationing in World War I, but I didn't see anything about big brother Coca-Cola complaining. Oh, that's because Coca-Cola had enough money to bribe people. So for the next few decades, it's a beverage battle as the companies fight for lunch counter

dominance and Pepsi expands by making other kinds of drinks. And I mean, Coca-Cola does as well. So Pepsi has brands like Mountain Dew and Lipton. We've heard of them. And Coke has broadened its scope with things like Minute Maid and Tab. Do you remember Tab? Oh, yeah. Everybody had a grandmother who was drinking Tab. Tab. So I'm probably the only person who has literally ever said this sentence, but Tab is going to be important later.

Okay. All right. But now let's skip ahead. It's the early 90s, and soft drink executive David Novak becomes the COO of Pepsi-Cola North America. So I guess in the analogy of the Pepsi-Coca-Cola sibling rivalry, I guess you could say he's like Pepsi's godfather. Ooh. So as the new COO, he wants to develop some hot new icy products, and he notices that there's a bit of a craze sweeping the nation. Actually, here's a news report from KDKA.

Have a listen. You can see it happening at the supermarket. A few years ago, New York seltzer was just about the only flavored water on the market. Now the category takes up eight feet of shelf space at this store, and it's encroaching on the colas. I like the lighter taste. I don't like the heavy taste of a cola. So seltzer versus cola. Are you a seltzer person? In the words of my homeboy, sparkling water used to taste like TV static to me.

I was like, there's a whole generation of children who don't know what tv static is yeah which is like i get it you don't know what a betamax is but static you needed to know that tv used to stop tv used to tell you go to bed go to bed we're gonna put a test pattern up here go to bed tv is done for the day but as of like right now in this timeframe of life in human existence, now we're back into this seltzer flavored water craze because it's like people just want to drink bubbles, I guess, is the thing. It's weird to think of clarity as a sign of healthiness. It's kind of literal, right? Like I can't see anything, so therefore it must be better for me. But no dyes does not mean no sugar.

I can see where his logic is. Just water with bubbles. It can't hurt me. I see where you're coming from. I get it. So yeah, PepsiCo's internal research already has a lot of product concepts that they're toying with, and their consumer research confirms his hunch. It seems like

there's a demand for a lighter variety of cola. So, Novak pitches the idea for a clear, caffeine-free, lower-calorie kind of Pepsi with natural ingredients to evoke health and purity, which I think is hysterical because health and purity aren't exactly the words that come to my mind when I think of Pepsi. Well, here's the thing. We're all stupid. Because if you wanted healthy soda, just drink bubbly water. You're coming to a pig asking for chicken nuggets.

That's what you're doing. You can't get bar mitzvahed in a mosque. What are you talking about? You sound crazy. Especially in 1992. Come on! Well, according to an interview with Thrillist, Novak goes to his boss, the CEO of PepsiCo,

and shares his grand idea. And Novak says he has to be very careful because he knows that he's playing with, and I quote, the family jewels. I understand he is coming for the king. He is trying to put some new clothes on this emperor. And he had to bring everybody and probably literally his own mama in the building and go, hey, listen, I'm about to take this company to the next level. I don't know what he sounds like, but you say Godfather. It's like, I'm about to take this company to the next level.

I've been seeing the seltzers and the people want it. Come on. You know they want it. I think you're onto something because he clearly inspired his bosses because they're like, yeah, brilliant. And they get to work. his bosses because they're like, yeah, brilliant. And they get to work. So he starts working with a food scientist named Surinder Kumar, who is the brains behind nacho cheese Doritos, to which I say sincerely, Kumar, I salute you. And his family for a hundred generations. So at this point, the guy who made the nacho cheese Dorito is in charge of this new

kind of Pepsi, which I think is brilliant. So Novak's like, okay, I want it to be lighter than Pepsi. I want it to be clear and pure. And I want to make sure everyone can see how pure it is by making the bottles clear too. Now this presents a little bit of a problem, and that problem is science. Now, I'm going to ask a very important question. What color is a 7-Up bottle? Green. Green. Ding, ding, ding. And it's not just design. They're green to stop clear soda inside from turning a yucky yellow color. And Kumar explains that without the green color, sunlight will spoil the soda.

It's why beverages like Coke and Pepsi can be in clear bottles, but why clear beverages like Sprite are usually sold in green bottles. Novak's like, no, it's not a problem. And Kumar's like, oh, but it is. But Novak is like, bye, see you in time for the Super Bowl. So turns out Novak wants this thing launched nationally in time to place a Super Bowl ad for it, like less than a year later. Ambitious.

Ambitious. It's a little fast for prime time. Like we got to figure out science stuff and launch something that is a global household name product. You got to get spokespeople. You got to design labels. You have to actually see if the product is stable. Yeah. You know what? Shout out to Novak. He's really trying to buy a yacht is what he be able to do it? Reverse engineer a clear, healthy version of Pepsi.

engineer a clear, healthy version of Pepsi. So Kumar cracks his knuckles and gets to work trying to find a way to replicate a clear and lighter version of Pepsi's recipe. Except there is another problem that I haven't told you about. Ready? Novak has been entrusted with the family jewels, like I said earlier, a drink based on Pepsi flavor. But as everyone in Big Soda knows, Pepsi's recipe is top secret. And Novak and his boss won't tell Kumar what it is, which seems like a real recipe for disaster, you could say. They're like, here, make Crystal Pepsi, but nope, you cannot have the recipe. You have to know what's in it to put it together. It's like those challenges they have on Great British Bake Off, where they're like, here,

make this really technically difficult cake that you've never made before, but we're not going to give you the instructions on how to do it. First of all, the knowledge those people have is wild. Oh, we're going to do a Swiss meringue or a Dutch meringue or a Vietnamese meringue, whatever the meringues are. There's still like a wealth of knowledge. Have you ever been given an impossible task with unreasonable deadlines from a boss? Yeah, it's called working in America. I know, Kumar.

Gosh. The number of times I've been somewhere and been like, this isn't going to happen. And they go, we got it. And I'm like, okay, you're going to watch all of us not get this done. Well, I mean, it is a tale as old as time, a classic case of a boss just not setting you up for success. But Kumar gets to work. So imagine a room full of test tubes and bubbling beakers of distilled caramel coloring and food starch. and bubbling beakers of distilled caramel coloring and food starch.

Imagine Kumar standing at a chalkboard in front of complex equations and formulas, the floor littered with crumpled up paper, his eyes are bloodshot, he clutches a vial of Pepsi in his trembling hands. All of this. I am totally making up, by the way. It's just like basically the vibe. But he has been given an impossible task. But a few thousand formulations later, and they think they've done it. So Novak sets up some crystal Pepsi focus groups. And the focus groups love it, at least according to Novak in his Thrillist interview.

But Novak's like, we did it. And Kumar's like, but what about the shelf life? And Novak's like, too late. We got to hurry. And I imagine Novak basically sprinting out of the focus group conference room straight into a nearby supermarket to sell them. He was so determined to get these on the shelves. Remember, he's got to get this thing selling nationally before the Super Bowl. But before a national launch, they have to do a more localized test launch. So on April 13th, 1992, Crystal Pepsi do their test launch in supermarkets in Dallas, Providence, and Boulder. You know, places that clearly represent all of the U.S.

Okay, the second and third legs of the national tour. All right. Exactly. So early reactions seem promising. If you can define this clip from a news report as promising, where a woman tries a sip of crystal Pepsi. Have a listen. That's weird. You don't expect something that white to taste like cocoa listen if you didn't trust a southern white woman i told you it was weird and you shouldn't listen to the fact that it was weird because that woman has been raised to say nice things yeah and in that particular moment she went against her mama and her breeding and her upbringing to tell you that something is wrong. Y'all should have listened to that nice lady.

She tried to help. She really did. So I think it's interesting that he gave himself this debt because it's the thing. If this is a deadline you gave yourself, you can move it. I mean, I get it that you want people to see it, but I mean, I'd also argue that you'd want it to taste good. And I don't think weird is exactly high praise. Never been. I mean, other people described it more positively, to be fair. They say that it was lighter than Pepsi, not as heavy, I guess, and that it didn't taste as syrupy. But that doesn't feel like people are loving it so much as they find it surprising. They're being nice.

They're being nice. There's nothing worse than somebody trying to be nice because they're not going to give you the feedback that you need. It's like when you're in a store. Who do you look for to tell you how you look in an outfit? A black woman. That's who you're looking for. Because I am that black lady a lot of the time what do you think and i go

or yeah go yes but the thing is from the description you've been giving me novak was gonna do this regardless of what anybody said this man was was on a mission. He was on a campaign. I mean, yeah, you've hit the nail on the head. We probably would have fine-tuned this and gone for a later pushed date. But the folks at Pepsi have two words. Ship it. So less than a year after Novak's pitch,

Crystal Pepsi is on shelves across the country. That's enough time to gestate a baby, but not enough time to test out a beverage, especially one that your lead scientist told you will spoil out in the sun. So you might want to test that. And according to Thrillist, when Novak begins production, the bottlers are like, I don't think there's enough Pepsi-Cola flavor in here. So they were probably like, hey, you know that thing that we put in here that makes this taste like Pepsi? Yeah, he ain't got that. He took out the caramel color, but he ain't got the, you mean the other thing? The other thing. I would have just taken the caramel color out the recipe and made the same thing. Well, Crystal Pepsi launches nationwide in early December 1992.

And the stakes of this new launch are high. Listen to this CBS News clip at the time. Pepsi is hoping for a clear advantage in the cola wars. In an industry with $48 billion a year in sales on the line, the beverages may be soft, but the competition is rock hard. Men are wild! Men are wild! Rock hard.

Novak won't admit that the concoction isn't ready for the world, but he fully believes that Crystal Pepsi is going to rock the beverage world. And in order to make that happen, a series of training videos are produced. These are to prepare PepsiCo sales reps for pushback from retailers. So in these videos, they are trained on all these kinds of things, like, quote, tackling objections, where they show actors role playing as store owners. And these store owners are very confused. They don't get why they'd want to have Crystal Pepsi in their stores. And honestly, they're not wrong. So let's do a little role playing. And we're going to learn along with these sales reps. So we're going to watch some

clips from the video. The person talking is playing a store manager and he has concerns. And you, the sales rep, need to learn how to answer them. So let's watch. Oh, no. Times are tough now. I just don't think Crystal will sell in my store. Okay, so first, could you describe what we're looking at for the listeners? This is wild.

So this is a middle-aged Black man in a very nice sweater of the era in front of a drawing of store shelves. A rudimentary drawing of store shelves. A rudimentary drawing, as in there is cans of things and it's just like a swipe of color honestly it's very 90s also he's giving unemployed background actor or current pepsi employee yes who has been wrangled into this and doesn't know why he's there okay so you're a pe a Pepsi rep and you just waltzed into a gas station. You have a case of Crystal Pepsi to sell and you're like, these are so good. And the store owner is like, times are tough. I don't think Crystal Pepsi is going to sell.

What do you say to convince them otherwise? As someone who has worked in sales before, I cannot sell water to a man on fire. Do you understand? We would stop, drop, and roll before he bought a fire hydrant from me. Even a little just extinguisher. I've worked in sales before. I am not good at it. Sir, I understand with the dental work you currently need that this is not an investment that you would like to make. Let's watch what the answer was. I realize that you're concerned that people won't be interested in new Crystal Pepsi. However, we've got a hot advertising campaign coming out on

Crystal. That's going to draw customers into your store and you can tap into that for increased sales and profit. I feel like he's being held hostage. First of all, shout out to Pepsi. Again, another black man who i did not expect to see black people in these sales videos i must tell you one i'm sure he's losing every argument with the partner that he's in whether it's romantic or platonic he's losing because this man if he told me the sun was out i wouldn wouldn't believe him. But the mustache, popping. Okay? But yes, very attractive, nice black man.

And his little striped Pepsi shirt. I work for Pepsi. I got a job. You know, might get me a pension later. Might take you out to the Red Lobster. So then there are two questions on how to address store managers who don't want to put something called a cold barrel with Crystal Pepsi by the register, which is that big cylindrical container in stores that you sometimes see carrying beverages inside. The lunch crowd usually just runs in and grabs a sandwich and they're on their way. I really don't see how a cold barrel is going to do any good.

their way i really don't see how a cold barrel is going to do any good okay i love a one of my favorite things was going into a convenience store and reaching into that barrel thing and getting a drink i absolutely loved it and usually the stuff in the cold barrel was right in the front right by the register i don't have to go back i grab my chips i grab whatever drink was in the cold barrel and i go on about my life because that was usually the stuff that was on sale anyway. So why would they want the stuff in the cold barrel? He don't know how to run a business. Also, again, now there's another drawing. Now he's in a deli of some sort. A white man in a pinstripe shirt. Listen, did people look different in the 90s? I don't think we make this man anymore. I don't think. Yeah, I think we've retired this generation of man. Well, your answer was pretty close to what the

actual answer in the video was. I realize you're concerned over putting a cold barrel in your deli. However, soft drinks and sandwiches are a natural link. If they're coming in to grab a sandwich, they're going to want to get something to drink. It makes sense for you to put that cold barrel right by the deli. That way can increase your your sandwich sales and your soft drink sales which leads to more profits so the black man was talking to the black man and now the white man is talking to the white man interesting okay now i don't feel so great about pepsi again another drawn background also his answer is much better than that other guy's answer. And also,

you got cold barrels anyway, so why would you want to put Crystal Pepsi in that cold barrel? You sound crazy. Come on, baby girl. You know what time it is. We out here selling this cold look. So do you feel now that you've watched your training videos, do you think that you're ready to go out there and sell some Crystal Pepsi?

Absolutely not. It was doomed to fail. If watched your training videos, do you think that you're ready to go out there and sell some Crystal Pepsi? Absolutely not. It was doomed to fail. If these are the videos, if this was the quality, because see, this is the thing. My mom was in a Burger King training video in the 70s. Okay. That they were still showing to people up into the mid-90s. I remember we were in a Burger King and this lady was like, wait a minute. Don't I know you?

And she's like, they're still showing that video? But no, because you didn't even hire actors for your training video. You just got employees to do it. I mean, one of those men looked like he has no inner monologue and the other one looks like how I would draw a face. Listen, and that last one, he was so nervous to just be on this internal video. Yeah, I feel like they raise more questions than they give me answers. Doesn't give me a lot of confidence in Crystal Pepsi. No, because the people asking the questions weren't confident.

Nobody in that video was confident. Nobody. But as they say about 10,000 times in the video, one thing is clear. Pepsi isn't leaving anything to chance. They give this project a $40 million marketing budget, which would be the equivalent of about $86 million today. And as you can probably guess, no, not all that money was spent on the employee training video. No, no money was spent on the employee training video. No, no money was spent on the employee training video. So they partnered with places like Pizza Hut, which offers a free two liter of crystal with every pie, which to me seems a little alarming that they're just giving away crystal Pepsi right as it launches. So remember, all this chaotic energy, including the chaotic energy

of the development process, is basically all because Novak is determined to launch in time for the Super Bowl ad. And to his credit, he does it. So it's the world's biggest stage for a commercial and the most expensive. January 31st rolls around, the Super Bowl, the moment David Novak's been hustling for, where he'll bring Crystal Pepsi to the TV screens of tens of millions of American households. So let's take a look at that ad, and you can help me decide if it was worth it. So I need you to watch and describe what you're seeing for the listeners. Okay. No, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. This is why you drink failed. So as the ad opens, you see a naked baby laying in the desert. The bottom of the sea?

I don't know. I don't know why we're always showing babies butts. I've always thought it was weird. It's like right now nature's inventing better stuff than science. Then we go to a man's watch. Right now the future is one step ahead of you. Correct. And so this reminds me of those commercials that you don't know are about Jesus until the last 30 seconds.

And I love the Lord, but sometimes I see those commercials and I'm just like, if I wasn't a Christian, this wouldn't make me want to be one. Okay. Okay, hold on. So we go from baby's butt. So nature's doing stuff. Then to a watch. Where it's like the future's ahead of you. And then the next shot is the computer screen.

And then old green lettering. It says right now computers still can't laugh. I don't even know what that means. What is it? Who's asking computers to laugh? Now the next shot is the pepsi logo and it says hey hollywood right now artificial doesn't feel right so now they're just low-key shitting on hollywood then the next shot is a rhinoceros right now only wild knife needs preservatives okay wildlife needs preserving a rhinoceros does not need

citric acid keep go okay now we're in space so it's just a field of yellow tulips and then a little red one in the middle okay right now we're gonna make it clear. Introducing Crystal Pepsi. Okay, so I get it right now. You need to buy this right now. He forgot the first rule of advertising. And that rule is titties. You need a skinny women is 92. So most of them are white. There's one light skinned black girl.

And they are by a pool. And they are working out. And they are refreshing themselves. And they are by a pool. And they are working out. And they are refreshing themselves. And they are eating a salad. That's what all of this should have been for this Crystal Pepsi. Because now we're in space with the MTV Spaceman. And it says right now we'll do just fine without caffeine. These aren't even real sentences.

Right now we're wondering why you can't see anything. I'm wondering why this ad don't make no sense. That is what we're wondering why you can't see anything. I'm wondering why this ad don't make no sense. That is what we're wondering. Yo, that man needs to be taken out back. So also on top of that, in case you missed it, that ad was set to Van Halen's Gen X anthem right now and was also a ripoff of the band's original video. Oh, okay. Does Van Halen know that?

Fun fact. Eddie Van Halen gave an interview with Guitar World about this. And he said, the only reason we gave Pepsi the music was because they were going to use the song anyway. If they use the original recording, they've got to pay.

So he said, hey, wait a minute. We might as well get all the money. I ain't that proud. You know, I'm not going to say no. Go ahead, rip us off and keep the money too. I mean, it makes sense. If you're going to use my song, I might as well get paid for it because you told me you were going to use my song. Yeah, but dang, like Eddie Van Halen getting what felt like the shakedown by Pepsi. So that's why that made no sense. Yes, but we're not the only ones that thought so. The commercial is so bananas that the good folks over at Saturday Night Live make a parody commercial for Crystal Gravy,

where they pour this thick, clear goo over a bunch of stuff. Oh, goodness. And Novak and his team are not happy about this. First of all, the joke product looks truly disgusting, and they don't want anyone to associate Crystal Pepsi with that. With Crystal Gravy. Okay. Because Crystal Pepsi is supposed to be pure and refreshing, not gross. Except that it is gross. Turns out, just as Kumar predicted. Because of the clear bottles, the drinks are starting to spoil in stores when they're exposed to sunlight, which describes most gas stations. So when you say spoil, it's the flavor, like... doesn't taste right. But all of the marketing and press worked because Pepsi's goal with Crystal Pepsi was to capture 2% of the soft drink market, which would amount to $1 billion at the time.

And they were well on their way. In its first year, they managed to capture 1% of soft drink sales. So impressive money. That's because everybody wanted to try it because it was a new thing. Yes. I mean, I'm a sucker for that. If something says new on it, I'm like, I'll give it a go. So the marketing works. People are intrigued. They're curious. So at last, little brother Pepsi has finally prevailed over its perfect older sibling Coke.

But Coke is looming in the background, watching and plotting. If you think they'd sit by and watch Pepsi run away with the soda market, you don't know Coke. So about a month before that Super Bowl, a new product emerges. A product called Tab Clear, presented by none other than the Coca-Cola company. I mean, gay gasp, the plot thickens,

and I told you that Tab would be important. I remember Tab clear. Nobody knew what the hell was going on. So there was the Trojan horse and now there's the Trojan Cola. Well, the smart thing is that Coke was like, listen, Tab already tastes weird, first and foremost. But also, we're not going to mess up our original brand. Exactly. So Coca-Cola pulls out all the stops for their big announcement, even renting out the iconic Hayden Planetarium in New York to announce the release. And get this, they do that only one week after Crystal Pepsi launches nationally.

Petty. That's what you gotta do. Whether it's intentional or not, they market Tab Clear as a medicinal, quote, sugar-free diet drink. And a detail that I find fascinating, apparently the theme for the Tab Clear marketing campaign is, quote, it's not what you think, which seems like intentionally alarming. I don't know what I think. I don't know what's happening in this can. So wait, so what'd they put it in? They put it in a can or did they put it in? They put Tab Clear in both a silver can and a clear bottle. A bottle.

While I do love the story of older sibling Coca-Cola launching a similar product to little brother Pepsi at the same time, I think more realistically what happened is both companies tried to get in on a short-lived clear soda craze that was happening, and people just kind of lost interest. Because pretty soon, Crystal Pepsi sales start to plummet, and the Pepsi bottlers probably gave Novak the most accurate explanation. After they warned him that there wasn't enough cola syrup in it to taste like Pepsi, the feedback is, hey, this doesn't really taste like Pepsi, and that's because they never gave Kumar that Pepsi recipe. So it's spoiling on the shelves. It's supposed to taste like Pepsi, and it doesn't, and people are losing interest.

Hmm. So according to Thrillist, the bottlers warned Novak that, quote, everyone will try this. The problem is no one is going to retry it. Right. You only need to step your toe once to know that you need to move your bed. Weirdly enough, a bland-tasting version of soda that goes bad in the sunlight and has been associated with clear gravy just doesn't have the staying power you'd think. So, less than a year after that big Super Bowl ad, Crystal Pepsi was discontinued.

Despite a heavy marketing campaign, consumers were like, No thanks, Crystal Pepsi just tastes too gross and ew, discolored soda, yuck. And I guess it didn't help that big brother Coca-Cola was out there competing with its fancy tab clear, which was also a failure, I might add. On the plus side, Novak seems to have a good head on his shoulders about it. He calls it a tremendous learning experience and says, quote, it's the best idea I've ever had and the worst executed, end quote. So at least there's a man taking responsibility for something. No, he did. He still said it's the best idea I've ever had and the worst executed, meaning that when it comes to the execution, there were a lot of other people involved.

That's true. So the blame can then be spread across everyone. But he still gets credit for the idea. For the idea. Yeah, you're right. Well, also in the Thrillist piece, he says he still keeps a bottle of Crystal Pepsi in his office, quote, to remind me to take risks, be creative, and listen to people. That was the lesson. Listen creative, and listen to people. That was the lesson. Listen to people.

Listen to people. And that article is from 2020. I think this is honestly a pretty funny end of the story. After all of that marketing, all that work, all those employee videos, the problem is just you got to make your drinks taste good. A great reminder not to forget the simple things, you know? your drinks taste good. A great reminder not to forget the simple things, you know? Well, the fact that you had people training in preparation for pushback.

Yeah. Someone should have gone, hey, we are training for a problem. We should probably look into this. Yeah. Here on The Big Flop, we like to be positive people and give credit where credit is due, and so we're going to do a little silver linings. On the plus side, Crystal Pepsi does make a few short returns. In 2015, they bring it back for two days, just two, but in 2016, they released it for a little bit longer than that. A change.org petition is created to bring back Crystal Pepsi, and it gets over 38,000 signatures. And they briefly bring it back in 2022 for its 30th anniversary.

The hell was that? I didn't hear a single thing about any of those. So David Novak went on to be the CEO of Yum Brands, aka KFC, Pizza Hut, and Taco Bell. And now guess what? He is also the host of a podcast for his company called How Leaders Lead. Girl. And yes, he has been known to use his experience

with Crystal Pepsi as an example of what not to do. Okay, all right. That's all we wanted to know. Did Ebenezer Scrooge learn the lesson? That's what you wanted to do. Okay. All right. That's all we wanted to know. Did Ebenezer Scrooge learn the lesson? Mm-hmm. That's what you wanted to know. Is he popping out his window asking a young boy, is it Christmas?

Is really what you wanted to know. Did he buy the goose in the window? Yeah. Well, I feel a lot better about this man. But nowadays, he's been fired. Quickly. He made one mistake and he is gone. They would have made sure he peed in a different place. Your executive washroom no longer exists, sir. Yeah,

I think it's interesting that he was given a chance to fail. And then they were like, okay, well, this didn't work. Let's try something else. Well, and good old Surinder Kumar has continued to work in research and development for a number of companies. He also founded his own company called True Eats, which makes some pretty great looking brownie and pancake mixes. And he's also passionate about mentoring people. Ah, so just going to go first lesson. They're not going to believe you. They're not going to believe you. They're not going to believe you. They're not going to give you what you need. They're not going to believe you.

And they're going to give you an unrealistic deadline. This is what you're dealing with. Now, go forward, my children, and try not to take down an entire corporation. Well, now that you know the full story of Crystal Pepsi, would you you consider this a baby flop a big flop or a mega flop because of the price points it's gonna have to be a mega flop yeah only because they only got one percent of the market share their first year and that was literally people being like crystal pepsi what would that taste like and people tasted it was like so you got your little 1% or whatever. And then there was no more money to make.

Yeah, that was the end of Crystal Pepsi and the clear soda craze. So thank you so much to my lovely guest Dulce Sloan for joining us here on the Big Flop. And thanks to all of you for listening. For next week's episode, we'll be quizzing our guests, Alice Wetterlin and Karen Chee, about an iconic live mobile game show. That's right, HQTs.

We'll be talking about the flop of HQ trivia. I can't believe we don't remember this plot better. I know. Where was I? I know exactly where was I. What was I doing in 2017 and not getting free money? If you like The Big Flop, you can listen early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey Wondery and Atwill Media. Hosted by me, Misha Brown.

Produced and edited by Levi Sharp. Written by Marina Tempelsman. Engineered by Zach Rapone. Our executive producers are Rosie Guerin, Will Malnati, and Samantha Story for Atwill Media. Developed by Christina Friel. Legal support provided by Carolyn Levin of Miller, Korzenik, Summers, Raymond. Producers for Wondery are Matt Beagle and Grant Rutter. Senior producer is Lizzie Bassett.

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