The Big Flop - Encore: Rachel Dolezal's White Lies with Naomi Ekperigin and Andy Beckerman | 84

Episode Date: April 21, 2025

Rachel Dolezal built a life for herself as a teacher, a civil rights advocate, and a leader in her local NAACP chapter. There was just one problem: She built it all on a foundation of lies—and the biggest lie of all was about her race. When a local news crew discovered her secret and called her out in front of cameras, it all came crashing down on a national scale.Naomi Ekperigin and Andy Beckerman (Couples Therapy) join Misha to break down the many lies of Rachel Dolezal—and there are a lot!Be the first to know about Wondery’s newest podcasts, curated recommendations, and more! Sign up now at https://wondery.fm/wonderynewsletterListen to The Big Flop on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/the-big-flop/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Attention, all big flop stands. Are you ready to take your love for the big flop to the next level? Well, Wondery Plus is here to make your dreams come true. With ad-free episodes, early access, and exclusive bonus content, you'll be swimming in a sea of content. Your uninterrupted flop fix awaits. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple podcasts. Jeffrey Humphrey, a reporter at a local news station covering Eastern Washington and Northern Idaho, is waiting outside an office building with a camera crew. Working in local news often means covering puff pieces,

like a farmer who grew a big pumpkin or a dog that can bark the national anthem. But today, Jeff is trying to get an interview with the subject of an investigative report that could be explosive. His report is about a woman named Rachel Dolezal. She's a professor, a chair of a police oversight commission in Spokane, and the previous year, 2014, she was elected head of the local NAACP chapter. She's a

classic big fish in a small town and the face of the local Black Lives Matter movement. But Jefferies unearthed something, well, fishy. His report started as an investigation into hate crimes reported by Rachel. Obviously no laughing matter. But he's come across some facts that just don't pass the smell test. But he's come across some facts that just don't pass the smell test. He's starting to suspect that this big fish has been telling some tall tales. In fact, they suspect that Rachel may be lying about a crucial part of her backstory. Her race.

Jeffrey spots Rachel coming out of the building and he and the camera crew start moving. His plan is a kinda crazy one. He's just going to come out and ask her a pointed question. An especially awkward one to ask the head of the local NAACP, but it's a high stakes gamble because all she has to do is say no and all his months of work and reporting will be for nothing. He's going to ask her, are you white? There's no way this will work, right? Rachel Dolezal became a household name as the head of the Spokane chapter of the NAACP.

I was wondering if your dad really is an African American man. That's a very, I mean I don't know what you're implying. Are you African American? Once a public advocate, Rachel Dolezal has quickly become a social media punchline. Let me just ask you the question in simple terms again because you've sent mixed signals over the years. Are you an African American woman? Identify as black. Rachel Dojal, the previous head of Spokane's NAACP and member of the Police Accountability

Committee, while she rose to international infamy for admitting she had lied about her race and now she's facing felony charges. From Wondery and AtWillMedia, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time. I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar who identifies as the best podcast host in the world at Don't Cross a Gay Man. And today we're talking about Rachel Dolezal, the white woman who pretended to be black for years and earned a spot on the Mount Rushmore of nonstop liars when her true identity was

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19 plus to wager, Ontario only. Please gamble responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Y'all, I'm so excited because on the show today, we have two of my new besties.

They are comedians, writers, and podcasters. You might know them from their podcast, Couples Therapy. It's Naomi Ekperigan and Andy Beckerman. Welcome besties. Hello, hello. So good to see you. Can't wait to catalog. Welcome besties. Hello. So good to see you. Can't wait to catalog some whoopsies.

That's the way you put it, catalog whoopsies. You guys, I just need you to all know that Misha's skin is glowing peruse, okay? Because if there's one thing I've noticed is that there must be a regimen, okay? It is even, it is bright. It says, I have a future in this town. LAUGHS So sweet.

MUSIC PLAYS Well, our episode today is about Rachel Dolajal, who lied about her race and dug herself into a whole lot of trouble. And when she was called out, she did not stop digging until she hit the equivalent of the Earth's molten core. I mean, trashing her reputation, her career, and landing her in a whole bunch of legal trouble.

At her peak, Rachel was a prominent civil rights leader in a medium-sized town. That is what always sticks with me, is that she was a local NAACP president. Yes. And I mean, when people found out the truth about her, they were genuinely shocked. What was your reaction when you first heard about Rachel

Dolezal's story? I said, white people can't let us have nothing. Ha ha ha ha! I was like, you don't want black folks to have no rights, no property, no equality. And yet you want to be us. Make it make sense. Then I also said, where does she live?

That there were no black people around to go, excuse me, ma'am. I just thought it was so weird. Like, because everything just kind of flashes in front of your consciousness these days and you're just, you mean like Instagram, Twitter. It's just everything. It's just like, yeah, just like experience of the world is just this undiluted mass of like things happening in front of you. And like some of them hook into your consciousness and then you go and you

you kind of plumb the depths a little more and you're like, oh, what is this? And but a lot of them are just like kind of like flying around your face like gnats and you're just like swatting them away And this was one of them where I was just like wait She was Why did she fly? Big thing. I don't understand the why part of it. Yeah, I don't think the why all of it so it's more like to me it is this just like this kind of like

Confusion about all of it. Why she existed in the first place. Why I'm excited about this is because I am hoping today to come out of this with a little more clarity about existence period. Well, we'll see about that. So Rachel, she didn't just wake up one day and decide to start lying about her race. It happened slowly, and the seeds of her lies go all the way back to her childhood. Now, Rachel Dolajal is born in 1977 in a rural part of Montana to Ruthanne and Larry Dolajal. Oh my god. It's a home birth and her birth certificate lists Jesus Christ as the name of the medic who delivered her.

Wow, okay. Well, yeah, that tells us a lot. That tells us a lot. I think this explains the rest of it. Case closed. I mean, I think it's pretty impressive because I know that guy's usually very busy. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, he's a carpenter, first of all. I didn't know he was trained as a doula as well.

I know. He's got a net-see store to run. Multi-hyphenate, okay. But her parents, they are fundamentalist Christians and creationists who believe in living a very simple life and are strict disciplinarians. As a child, Rachel would often fantasize that she was adopted, that her parents had kidnapped her, and that she was really an Egyptian princess. Huh. Wow.

Why would she wish that? Why would she wish that those weren't her parents? I don't get it. Those strict creationists in the middle of Montana? The people that believe that cavemen and dinosaurs existed at the same time, why? But also it's like, I could also see them like, okay, yes. You believe you're kidnapped

when your parents are not loving. Do you know what I mean? Like the idea that you told you like, oh, these people kidnapped me. Cause like they don't treat you like somebody that they chose. Like if they had been loving creationists, she wouldn't have had a problem.

She maybe, or she would have been less inclined to feel like she was also Egyptian. I said, where she learned about Egypt. Ah, that's what I want to know too. What's the painting of the farmer and his wife? What is it called? Gothic? Yeah, American Gothic. Gothic, right? Those are her parents. I imagine it's like bloodless people with a pitchfork. Yeah. Yeah. It's just so weird because if she had gone on to pretend that she was just a princess, like maybe watched one too many Anne Hathaway movies I don't think people would have been nearly as upset with her. One small point that we should make very clear here

Rachel's parents are white and Rachel is also white. Yeah Yeah, Ruthann and Larry in Montana as soon as you said Ruthann and Larry in Montana, I said, how did this bitch trick anybody? Mm-hmm. So let's take a look at Rachel when she was younger. Oh, my god. Look at this Aryan queen. Wait, is that really her? She's an Aryan queen.

She looks like a CW mother. Mother of the CW show. That is the cover of Gilmore Girls, yes. Yeah, exactly. Yes, this is a Stars Hollow woman. Yes, yes, she's giving Stars Hollow. Yeah, blonde hair. Rosy cheeks.

Rosy cheeks. OK. Just wavy, natural hair. The whitest thing we've ever seen. I've seen darker ghosts. You know she snaps on one and three. So Rachel has one biological brother and her parents adopt four children. Three are African American and one is Haitian. Okay.

So Rachel, she starts to learn how to style her adopted siblings' hair. She also starts learning about how to do her hair. So Rachel, she starts to learn how to style her adopted sibling's hair. She also starts learning about black history and literature, including reading books by James Baldwin. So Rachel goes to college in Mississippi and this is when she gets her own hair braided

for the very first time and something changes deep inside her. As a result of this epiphany within her, she says, people started responding to me differently. A lot of people started responding to me as if I was biologically biracial. I kind of let the chips fall where they may. By the way, sorry, there's the phrase biologically biracial, like makes me gag a little bit.

It feels very like Germany in 1943. I don't know why. Yeah, it's weird. But for right now, Rachel is not actively deceiving people, but she's happy to let people make assumptions about her race. Like how I'm happy to let people assume that I'm 6'5". Yes, yes, yes. So Rachel then goes to Howard University to get an MFA.

Yeah, so for anyone living under a rock, Howard is the prestigious, historically black university in DC that gave us Thurgood Marshall, Toni Morrison, Chadwick Boseman and of course Kamala Harris. According to a student who took a class with Rachel at Howard, at this time Rachel is not yet actively claiming that she's black. By the way to everybody, the student population at Howard is around 1% white. You don't have to be black to attend there. So she could just go there and be herself. But Rachel's thesis at Howard was a series of paintings presented from the perspective

of a black man. She also did a mixed media piece called Hell, and unfortunately, we have a photo of it. Oh, no. Oh, what? OK, OK. What we are looking at is the top half of a male figure. It could be climbing out of the lava or being submerged. I think sinking in.

But the arms are up. The arms are up. The arms are up. A black man arms up, it looks almost like a computer graphic in a early 2000s video game of someone sinking into lava. Now here's a question for you all. Is that lava badly shaped like the United States or is it just lava?

Because it looks like it could be someone who did not know how to paint the United States. No, no, I think that's just lava. You're giving her a lot more credit. I have an advanced degree in philosophy and part of that is philosophy of art. And I am very confused by this painting. I'm going to go to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom.

I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom.

I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. I'm going to the bathroom. From tires to auto repair, Tread Experts is always there, helping you with Toyo tires you can trust.

Until May 31st, save up to $100 in rebates on select Toyo tires, like Toyo's open country family of tires. Find your pro at your local Tread Experts. From tires to auto repair, we're always there, treadexperts.ca. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan. This assailant starts firing at him.

And the suspect... He has been identified as Luigi Nicolás Mangione. ...became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was meant to sow terror. He's awoking the people to a true issue. Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify, or Apple podcasts. So in 2000, Rachel gets married to a black man.

They have one son, and after she graduates in 2002, they moved to Idaho closer to Rachel's parents and other family members. Now, just 12% of Idaho's population is black, so as a state, it's only slightly less white than the cast of Friends. Rachel and her husband get divorced in 2005, and Rachel says one of the reasons that their marriage wound up going bust was because my husband didn't want me to wear any black hairstyles.

Ha ha ha, okay. I thought it was gonna go bust because you drugged that black man to Idaho, and he said, ma'am, I don't love you enough for this. Yeah. And then after the divorce, she doesn't have a black husband anymore to keep her in check.

That was the major tipping point because that's the moment she makes the decision that she's going to start actively calling herself a black woman. So wait, it was an active decision. She looked in the mirror and said, yeah, this makes sense. This is my truth, Andy. This is my truth. That's her truth. How dare you. That's her truth. Oh, this makes my head hurt. Yeah. I mean, what do you think is her motivation though?

Lack of Prozac? Lack of Prozac. My theory has always been she wanted attention. She wanted to be special. And certainly now that we know too, this is also linked to a divorce. She's obviously going through, like she's raised by these creationists in the middle of nowhere with Jesus Christ as her doula and she feels fully isolated. So she creates a fantasy world where what is vibrant, if not black culture. Right. In the eighties and nineties. Yeah. You've

got amen on TV. You've got a different world. All the hits. All the hits. But I don't even know she had TV. So this thing is like, I don't even know if she had TV. So this thing is like, I don't know how in the middle of nowhere she was in Montana, but I'm like, she's like, this is vibrant. I want to be part of it. And yes, you can go to historically black college and be white.

I dated an Israeli vegan investment banker who did a semester abroad in a black college. As part of fully committing to her new persona, Rachel takes what she learned doing her adopted siblings' hair and starts styling her own hair like theirs. She also starts darkening her skin using makeup and spray on tanners. Later on, when she's asked about this,

she compares it to women who give themselves airbrushed freckles. What? Rachel also says, we don't ask if somebody's boobs are real or not. Really? I think we often do. I think we often ask that question. There was an entire Seinfeld episode about whether one of the women he was dating's breasts were real or not. I also know several women who have gotten breast work who will talk about it and be like,

hey, yes, I got these. What do you think? It's not the same. Also to augment a body part, when it goes too far is also a sign of like a mental issue. Do you know what I mean? Like the people who like make their lips so big, they can't talk anymore.

You're like, oh, okay, you're dysmorphous through the roof. You're dealing with something. So in 2008, Rachel becomes education director of a human rights organization that was founded in the 80s in response to a spike in white supremacist activity in the area. So it's an organization with a lot of history and a very important mission. Rachel continues to just straight up tell her coworkers

that she's black. She's gone from being a passive liar to being a very active liar. Nisha, does she know this is wrong? I don't know if you can, if this isn't your dossier, but does she know that this is not the correct way to exist to like wear someone else's existence as a spirit Halloween costume. Like, does she know that or is she like, no, this is acceptable? Without giving away too many spoilers. No. No. So while working there, Rachel also meets a black man named Albert Wilkerson. Albert is a veteran and a former policeman, and he becomes a father figure to Rachel.

So much so that she starts calling him dad. Oh no! Rachel is more than happy for people to think that Albert is actually her biological father, though Albert is not in on this ruse at all. When asked about this, Rachel says, usually I say my dad is black because to say that neither one is black creates this really long conversation. I don't know that person. I don't feel like I owe them that long conversation. They're going to be looking at me as if I'm crazy.

Because you are! So, Rachel gets a job at Eastern Washington University in 2010. Courses she teaches include African and African American art history, African history, African American culture, the black woman struggle, and intro into African studies. I'm sorry. I am black 101. By the way, it's about me. It's about me teaching that I am black, everyone. The black woman struggle is what you said a class was called. Yes.

First of all, that's way too many courses to be teaching. I'm going to say it right now. I hope that wasn't a one year. Yeah. That's too many. No, when I taught four classes at the same time, that was like a 60 hour work week. Oh my God, you were toiling too hard. I don't know if you remember, but I have an advanced degree and I was a professor.

Andy, I don't know if the listener is going to think it's funny. You know the one class she doesn't teach that she'd be perfect for? Creative writing. Absolutely. Creationism writing. Creationism writing. Creationism writing. Very good.

She could do that too, but that's funny because I love her idea of doing African American Absolutely. Creationism writing. Creationism writing. Creationism writing. Very good. She could do that too. But that's funny, because I love her idea of doing African-American art, because you know she was showing her thesis, her Howard thesis. Do you know what I mean? You know she was through a show.

She's like, through a black man's eyes, my artwork. OK, so we've got to get into a few more of Rachel's lies here. And I think the best way to do that is with a game. I'm going to read you some statements, and you have to tell me whether these are actual claims that Rachel made about herself. First question, true or false. Rachel claimed she was born in a teepee and had to use a bow and arrow to hunt her own

food. That's so insane. I got to say false. One, two, three, false. True. Naomi ding, ding, ding. No. I'm sorry.

No. That is something she really told people about herself. Now, her parents did live in a teepee for a little bit, but that was three years before Rachel was even born. Why do they do that? It's called off-grid living. It's called glamping. Second question, true or false?

Rachel claimed she lived in South Africa. And remember, we're not asking whether she actually lived in South Africa, just if she ever said that she lived in South Africa. And remember, we're not asking whether she actually lived in South Africa, just if she ever said that she lived in South Africa. Right, right, right, right. True. False. Because I think she probably said something like, I lived in Nigeria. Well, Naomi ding, ding, ding.

Rachel did say she lived in South Africa, but her mom and dad were the ones who lived there from 2002 to 2006. And according to her mom, quote, Rachel did not even ever visit us there. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool, cool, cool, cool. So they were out there probably doing some missionary work. Were they doing like a Paul Simon's Graceland walking tour? They were. Yeah, I think they were actually doing their own work. Were they doing like a Paul Simon's Graceland walking tour? They were, yeah. I think they were actually doing their own album. Toll's All Family Band.

Yeah. But I love that mom just like still had the time to guilt trip her daughter. Like moms are going to mom. You know what I mean? You never even visited me. But at the same time, it's like, you know, you raised me in the middle of nowhere in Montana.

I don't know if I'm visiting you much either. I'll tell you that. All right, One last question. True or false. Rachel claimed that she once got hit on by Ed Sheeran. Okay. That's so insane. I'm actually going to say false.

Naomi. Three for three. Ding, ding, ding. No, she has not said that. Rachel has not yet claimed that she and Ed had a moment, but somebody check social media. She could start lying about that anytime. ["The Daily Show Theme"]

Starting in 2011, Rachel, still telling everyone that she's Black, also becomes more and more involved in the civil rights movement in Spokane. Sure, the movement of Spokane. Mm-hmm. And that includes participation in a local chapter of the NAACP, a group that fights for the civil rights of Black Americans. So to recap, Rachel is fully lying about her race and she's telling this lie to more and more people at places she works, places in her community. And it's not like she doesn't know that what she's doing is wrong. She knows exactly how bad all of this is

because in 2012, when her brother Ezra comes to visit, she asks him not to quote, blow her cover. Oh no. I was gonna ask you. Blow her cover, that phrase? Where are the siblings in all this? And what I'm noticing too, Rachel, this is how she's managed to do this so long,

this is like serial killers, you know, I watch a lot of criminal minds and you know why it's hard to get caught? When they cross state lines. The cops can't put it together. I guarantee you she does not have friends who have stayed with her across all of these spaces. Do you know what I mean?

Like there's nobody who's like, I've known Rachel since she was 10. No, Rachel is revamping. She is spray tanning in every new location. Knowing just how bad it would be if people found out the truth about her, Rachel continues to seek out higher and higher profile roles in the community. This is what happens.

In November of 2014, the Spokane chapter of the NAACP is going to elect a new president, and Rachel decides to run. And, no surprise here, while running for this office, she also explicitly lies about being black. Now, it's also worth pointing out here that just like with Howard University, the NAACP does have white members and white people in leadership positions, so she could have gotten involved as a white woman. Yes, without lying. She did not have to do this. No, no, no, no, no. Again, she wants a culture and community. And if it's not hers, she has decided she will take it. She will make it hers, as opposed to just, you know,

getting into therapy. Yeah. Rachel, if you're listening. So Rachel wins the election and she takes over at a crucial time for the Spokane NAACP. Participation in the group has declined and there's a feeling that the organization isn't being as active as it could. Now, having Rachel as president will absolutely shake things up in this organization, though not in the way anyone was expecting. But initially, she comes in and brings in a big burst of energy. She aims to double the chapter's membership and succeeds in a huge way.

By bringing more white people? I mean, you can double the chapter's membership very easily. She organizes rallies and marches, including one at City Hall after the Ferguson, Missouri police officer who killed Michael Brown was not indicted. And as a result, she's able to raise the group's profile and helps bring in a ton of new members. But Rachel, she's not stopping there, not our gal. She wants to make her own profile bigger and bigger. So she runs for and gets the job of Chairwoman of Spokane's

Office of Police Ombudsman Commission. What? Okay. It's a long wordy title, but it's actually a very influential and prestigious position in the city. What do you think an ombudsman does? That's what I don't understand. It's right up here with Comptroller for me. I know like a newspaper ombudsman kind of criticizes the newspaper when they step out of line. Then her job is to be critical of the police.

She's the eagle eye on the cops. Police Accountability Board President. Yes. Wow. That's basically her job. By the way, just in case I have to reiterate this, she lies about her race while running for this position as well. In her application, Rachel describes herself as white, black, and Native American.

Oh, Lord, she taking on another one. Another one. She just said, I'm going to get up everybody. At the end of this, it's like I'm also Middle Eastern, I'm South Asian. I'm a little Chinese. Mm-hmm. Throughout the time that Rachel has been becoming a more and more prominent member of the community,

she also reports that she's been targeted in a number of hate crimes. Oh, great. Which, of course, is serious stuff. Yeah. The area where Rachel lives has a horrible history of really scary white supremacist activity and attacks going all the way back to the 1970s.

As we mentioned, that's why the civil rights organization Rachel works for was founded. So it's sadly all too plausible that these sorts of hate crimes would be happening here, which is something that nobody should want to see again at all. By the way, the most surprising fact so far has been that it only dates back to the 1970s. Yeah. That we can find. So between 2008 and 2011, Rachel files almost a dozen police reports about hate incidents.

She needs her own budsman, okay? So now we need some Dolezal accountability, because she up in here do a 12 just against her. And this is the thing, and this is what's so terrible. It's like, those things are happening all the time. And then this liar makes it so that actual victims are not believed. And this is why we have a problem.

Because this is where your need for attention becomes dangerous. Agreed. So this gets the attention of Jeff Selle, a reporter who works for a local newspaper, the Coeur d'Alene Press. Jeff starts looking into these reports because if they're all accurate, that would mean there's been a huge spike in hate crimes in the area, which could be the return of that horrible history of white supremacist activity.

Wow. Okay. She's got too high on her own supply. Yes, and now she's in a spotlight situation. Uh-huh. It's also particularly newsworthy that all of these incidents are happening to Rachel, a prominent figure in a local civil rights movement.

Jeff is the Woodward and Bernstein of this story, and Rachel is his Richard Nixon. Okay, thank you, Jeff, for your work. I am not a white. So, P.S., if you've listened to our Watergate episode, you know that Richard Nixon did a lot of shady stuff, but at least he never claimed to be the first black president. Jeff starts by getting every single one of the reports Rachel has made and as he's looking them over, he discovers that none of them were

actually resolved. But it's not because the police don't investigate. They just can't find enough evidence to prosecute. In some of the cases that the police are investigating, they also don't get any help from Rachel. Yeah, in one case, she never calls them back. I'm imagining she's filing these police reports. She's like a bottle of Pinot Grigio dee. That's a wipe on her hand. Yes, that's a wipe on her hand. And then she's like mad, cause like she ain't got no man.

And she like wants some attention. And she's just like like I was attacked. Yeah. Oh yeah. Well, not only is Rachel not helping out with these investigations, there's also some details about her reports that funnily enough just are adding up. Okay. For example, in February and March of 2015, Rachel tells the police about a package she received. It's an envelope containing photos of lynchings that she says she found in the post box of

the Spokane NAACP. That's an incredibly serious allegation about an incredibly serious crime. Now when Rachel reports this package, she says that it has a date stamp or barcode on it, which would mean that it went through the mail. But when investigators examine it, they find that contrary to what Rachel said, it did not have any of those markings on it. And as any postal worker can tell you, if a package doesn't have those markings that means it's very unlikely, impossible, that it could have gone through the post office.

Now, if this had been a normal mailbox, someone could have just walked up and put the package inside, but this was the NAACP's post box, which needed a key to be opened. Why didn't you just say she found it on the doorstep? Do you think that she is like, I'm invincible and I can say whatever I want and everyone will believe me? Especially now because of her status.

And I think that's why she keeps trying to gain these different positions. Because with every position you gain higher and higher, especially it's like, oh, she worked with the police. Now she thinks they're gonna be her friends and think everything that she says is right. If her job is now to look over police accountability and then she says I'm going to file something, she's like, well, they're going to agree with me because, you know, my job is to make sure

they're doing their job. I mean, I'm sorry, what cashier at right age should have been able to call out the damn spray tan? I'm sorry. to the head. It was a baffling tragedy. You'd think his wife would be devastated. But a far more frightening set of circumstances eventually came to light. She was either the black widow or bad luck. I don't know which. People began to wonder, who was Sandra Bridewell?

These guys didn't really see her coming. This is the unbelievable story of a femme fatale with a trail of bodies in her wake and a lifetime of deception that has never been fully aired until now. If something ever happened to me, then they would know who did it. From Sony Music Entertainment, this is Fatal Beauty, available now on the binge. Search for Fatal Beauty wherever you get your podcasts to start listening today. In the early hours of December 4th, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan. This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him.

We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world. And the suspect. He has been identified as Luigi Nicholas Mangione. Became one of the most divisive figures in modern criminal history. I was targeted, premeditated, and meant to sow terror. I'm Jesse Weber, host of Luigi, produced by Law and and crime and twist this is more than a true crime investigation we explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country

forever. He's awoken the people to a true issue. I mean maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our health care system. Listen to law and crimes's Luigi exclusively on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify or Apple podcasts. So as Jeff and the other journalists on the case at the Coeur d'Alene press are looking into Rachel, they realized they may have stumbled onto another huge aspect of the story. They're starting

to suspect that Rachel Dolezal might not actually be Black. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. That moment when they're like, wait, what? Oh. Ruthanne and Larry? I've got Ruthann and Larry on the line. Well, funny you should say that. The break in the case comes when they find a photo that the Spokane NAACP posted on Facebook. It's a picture of Rachel and Albert Wilkerson, the black man who she's been claiming is her father and who does not realize she's doing this.

Now don't forget, as far as the NAACP knows, that man actually is her father and who does not realize she's doing this. Now, don't forget, as far as the NAACP knows, that man actually is her father. They're not trying to blow up her spot. They just have no reason to doubt her. But around that time, the journalists find a different picture of a couple who they think are Rachel's real parents. And they're right. The people in the photo are Ruth Ann and Larry. And as we established at the beginning of the show, Ruth Ann and Larry are Rachel's parents and

they are white. So it's a smoking gun. Can you imagine the phone call to Albert? He's like, oh yeah, Rachel's great. No, I'm not her. I'm not. What do you mean I'm her dad? What? I said I love her like a daughter, but that don't mean she is my daughter. So, I mean, what this means is rather than a huge spike in hate crimes, Rachel and her lies are the real story here.

She's brought down by a Facebook photo. How embarrassing. Cause again, at this point, what we're 2015, Rachel's forgetting about technology. Because she's able to kind of do this a little bit, the 90s, the early aughts, okay, okay. -♪ So the interview with Rachel's parents

is the last piece of evidence they need. And on June 11th, 2015, Jeff and the journalist at the Coeur d'Alene Press drop a story that completely blows up Rachel's lies. Yes, Coeur d'Alene. In the story, Ruth Ann and Larry say that their daughter is not black, surprisingly, and they show the paper a copy of Rachel's birth certificate,

which lists them as her parents. And of course, Jesus has the delivery nurse. That same day, a local TV station also airs which lists them as her parents. And of course, Jesus has the delivery nurse. That same day, a local TV station also airs an interview with Rachel's parents. In the interview, her mom says Rachel has chosen not to just be herself, but to represent herself as an African American woman or a biracial person, and that's simply not true. So, there's no mincing words here.

They are calling their daughter out. And actually, let's take a look at a clip from this interview. Yes, Rachel is a master artist. And so she's able to disguise herself and make her appearance look like any ethnicity. So, I... Andy, you're just screaming over Larry and Ruthann

being the two whitest people you ever see. I am grabbing my head trying to crush my skull because they're the most Midwestern white couple. Right. And they, you know, they're baffled. I don't even think they're trying to like actively bring her down this sense of like, I want to ruin her as much as they're like, we're confused too. And maybe we can all get answers together as a society.

They said Rachel is a master artist and she's able to disguise herself to be any ethnicity. I'm not sure if the art we saw earlier screams master artist. That's like that Dana Carvey movie, Master of Disguise, where he dresses up like a turtle. Now, as all this is going on, there's one last thing to do. It's time to confront Rachel and get her on the record about her lies. On June 11th, the same day that the news article and the interview with her parents are released — man, Rachel is having one of the biggest bad days of all time. A news report airs in which a reporter from a local Spokane station, Jeffrey Humphrey, confronts Rachel

and just comes right out and asks her about her background. Let's take a look at this clip. Yes ma'am. I was wondering if if your dad really is an African American man. That's a very I mean I don't I don't really is an African American man. That's a very... I mean, I don't know what you're implying. Are you African American? I don't understand the question of... I did tell you that, yes, that's my dad. And he was unable to come in January.

Are your parents... Are they white? I ref- Ah! The way she can't, the look on her face where she was like, okay, I have been caught on the record. Everyone loves building a house of cards. Everyone hates when it collapses. And the best part is too, you know,

she does this really good white woman thing. To me, this white thing is like immediately angry. Immediately, why are you attacking me? How dare you attack me? It's like, I don't understand the question. What are you talking about? Like she cuts her eyes narrow. She's looking mad.

Absolutely. But I mean, so funny, how hard is it to answer the question, are your parents white? Exactly. Is your dad black? It is a yes or no question. And that's why she couldn't answer it. Because she knew. Because she was like, because it's not a trick question, but

she acted like it was a trick question. So the whole story and especially Rachel's interview blows up on social media. Do you remember like Twitter and Instagram when people found out about this story? Of course. It was a beautiful day to be black on the internet. And a comedian. Exactly. Yeah. So the hashtag Ask Rachel starts trending. In case you don't remember, that was where people would tweet pieces of trivia about black culture that they don't think Rachel would be able to answer. People online make jokes about her for almost a full week as more and more revelations about her come out.

But while people are making jokes on Twitter, a petition is launched demanding that Rachel step down from her position with the NAACP. Again, the NAACP has white members and white people in leadership positions. The problem is the lying. Yes, the problem is pretending to be black. That is the most terrifying white person there is. But Rachel, in true fashion, she's not backpedaling at all. If anything, she's forward pedaling. In an interview, she says, the question is not as easy as it seems.

There's a lot of complexities. And I don't know that everyone would understand that. When people. There's a lot of complexities. And I don't know that everyone would understand that. When people say there's a lot of complexities, that's the worst lie. There's never a lot of complexities. It's really actually quite simple. We live in hell. There's no nuance anymore. And then on June 15th, an article reveals that in 2002, she sued Howard University for

discrimination. She claims she was being discriminated against for being white. So when she's around a bunch of black people, she is white as can be and persecuted. And then when she's around a bunch of white people, she is the blackest girl you've ever known and persecuted. Do you see the through line there?

For the listener, I'm pulling my eyes out of my head right now. She certainly has the audacity of a white woman. The Caucasity and the Audacity. Yes. So the lawsuit was dismissed and the court ordered Rachel to pay Howard almost $4,000 in fines. Yes.

That's a judge's way of saying, I can't believe we had to listen to your nonsense. Exactly. That same day that the story breaks, Rachel resigns from the NAACP. In her letter of resignation, not only does she not apologize, she doesn't even mention the controversy that's causing her to resign in the first place. Didn't apologize. That's how you know she's white. Yeah. Three days later, in a unanimous vote, the Spokane City Council removes Rachel from the Police Oversight Commission.

And she not only loses her job at Eastern Washington University in the African Studies Department, she is barred from campus. That is hysterical. Barred from campus. That is hysterical. Barred from campus. They said, nobody want to hear you talk about a black woman's struggle. You ain't even allowed on the quad, bitch.

You ain't allowed on the grass. And in response, Rachel continues to absolutely not apologize. Instead, she starts to do a media tour. Yes. Oh. Well, Rachel, she goes on The Today Show and is interviewed by none other than Matt Lauer. Wow.

True Clash of the Cancelled. Let's take a look. And this goes back to a very early age with my self-identification with the black experience as a very young child. When did it start? I would say about five years old. You began identifying yourself as African-American?

I was drawing self-portraits with the brown crayon instead of the peach crayon and the black, you know, black curly hair and, you know, yeah. That was how I was portraying myself. Andrew just grabbed my shoulder. Literally speechless. She keeps a straight face every fucking time. Every time. She is unflappable in her bullshit.

She was like, yes, I was using the brown crayon and not the peach crayon. She's like, that's me, that's me. And she looked at him, she looked at Matt Lauer like, yes, I said what I said. Yes, a meeting of two sociopaths. What a great interview. So Rachel also does an interview in which she says,

for me, how I feel is more powerful than how I was born. If somebody asked me how I feel is more powerful than how I was born. If somebody asked me how I identify, I identify as black. Nothing about whiteness describes who I am. Well, I would argue that a liar, a bully, the ultimate colonizer trying to get in buddy with the police is pretty Caucasian coded. It's pretty Caucasian coded, Rachel. I don't know, I don't know. Yeah, that's very daywalker. So Rachel does an interview where she's asked if she has any regrets about how everything went down.

She says, maybe I could have told more people that I didn't want to answer their questions, that my life is a personal matter and the details of my identity are none of their business instead of getting backed into corners by trying to answer their questions. Wow. That is some forward peddling for real. Now to give Rachel a little bit of credit after getting absolutely dragged by basically everyone in comedy and also everyone on the internet, she actually has the sense to lie low for a while.

Okay. Oh. Mm-hmm. Sure. But then in 2016, just when everyone has almost forgotten about her, she reappears and she announces that she has changed her name to Enkechi Amare Diallo. and Ketchy Amare Diallo. I can't, again, it's a scam, right? A whiter place where she can be blacker and blacker. And that's what I asked me to do. She should have been in Norway,

and she should have said, hello, I'm in Ketchy. Okay, every time she moves, it's a whiter place. Yeah, well, she says that she has to change her name because it's the only way she can get a job. I have to imagine that no matter what name she's using, a Rachel Dolezal job application is going to have some major red flags in it. Hey, why's there a huge gap for 20 years?

Yeah. However, she is able to find one job. In 2016, she also announces she's writing a book. The book is rejected by 30 different publishers before she finds one willing to take it on. I can only assume that when they heard the news, all the fact-checkers at the publishing house immediately just burst into tears. Right. Right.

She says that she wrote the book hoping that everybody's questions and curiosities will be satisfied and then she can reintegrate into society. The book is called In Full Color, Finding My Place in a Black and White World. Oh! The delusion, the double down delusion, the triple down, as you said in the beginning, she just dug and dug until she reached the molten core. And then went through the other side and then floated off into space. Yeah.

And strangely, even though she changed her name to Enkechi, she published the book under Rachel Dolezal. Oh, okay. When writing the book, she identified as Rachel. When applying for a job, she's Enkechi. Yeah. Now, the hypocrisy is truly unbelievable and is a real microcosm of everything that's so wrong with her behavior.

I mean, she thinks she can adopt one identity when it suits her and discard it when it no longer benefits her, trash human. But even though basically nobody read her book, it still manages to get her into trouble. In May of 2019, she's charged with two felonies related to her not reporting tens of thousands of dollars she made from writing her book. Oh, oh you dummy. She claims she's making less than $500 a month while at the same time she has almost $84,000 coming into her bank account. A month? Just total, and a year.

Well, in order to avoid trial, she takes a plea deal. It's not exactly clear what she pled to, but probably not a felony. And she does agree to pay almost $9,000 and to do 120 hours of community service. No, don't- That's it? That's how she's white! But that's it! But I said don't put her in any community, That's how she's white. That's it.

But I said don't put her in any community. Because any community, she's supposed to go in their service next thing she's going to become them. Don't let her in any community. OK? Well, and after all this, after all these years, not only has Rachel not apologized, she doesn't even seem to be any closer to understanding

why her actions were so upsetting for so many people. I mean, she blew up her career, her reputation, and ended up as a national joke. Also, if you want, you can go find her Instagram. By the way, she didn't do it. That journalist, that pesky journalist did it. There you go. Real Scooby Doo logic. I would have gotten away with it too. So let's do a little where are they now? In early 2024, Rachel was working as an after school instructor in Arizona.

Okay, Arizona now, Arizona. Of course. Of course. So maybe she finally decided to settle down and keep a low profile? Nope. She was fired when the school found out that she had an OnlyFans page. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Wow. Now I want to put it out there. There's nothing wrong with having an OnlyFans page. But it is a bold choice for Rachel Dolajal. For Rachel. Exactly. Again, she wants attention. It doesn't seem to know how to just keep her mouth shut.

When you're doing dirty, go be in a corner somewhere so people forget you around. And you can just do what you're doing. Yes, you gotta be like a weapons manufacturer, okay? You're doing the worst shit on earth. You're doing it Sub Rosa, okay? Exactly, nobody knows who you are. Because this is the thing, if they can find your OnlyFans, you have not hidden your OnlyFans.

Oh no, right? She posted it straight on her social media. She posted it on the school's website, on her profile. So here on the Big Flop, we try as hard as we can to be positive people and kind of on a high. So are there any silver linings that you can think of that came about from Rachel Dolajal? Silver linings? I mean, her siblings got their hair done, I guess.

OK. The Spokane NAACP finally got out from under that lie. I would like to think the Curdellene reporters got a pay bump or something. Yeah, did that save the newspaper? Was it like one of those things where the newspaper was going under? Here's the film. The newspaper's going under and then they find the story and it revitalizes journalism and Spokane. Wow. You know, I was thinking that it brought people of all races together to say, what the hell is going on with this crazy lady? That's true.

But really, I think, you know, if anything, it keeps sparking conversations about race in America, which is always, you know, hopefully a good thing. I thought we solved that. Ha ha ha ha! So now that you both know about Rachel Dolajal, who briefly became Twitter's most dunked on white lady, would you consider this a baby flop, a big flop, or a mega flop?

Mega flop. Big flop. No one's dead. If death is, there's no mega flop. Well, exactly. Mega flop is the problem. She has no livelihood, basically, because she couldn't even keep a job as an after-school damn teacher. So, you know, and again, that's on her.

Her laying low is also only not even a full calendar year, okay? I need her to lay low for like three years. Guess some job, like go work at the Five and Dime, just be quiet and make some money, and then you can like maybe come back and do something that is helpful to people. Yeah, totally. So thank you so much to our guests, Naomi Ekparigan

and Andy Beckerman for joining us here on The Big Flop. And of course, thanks to all of you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review. We'll be back next week to talk about an ambitious addition to the Disney parks, the fully immersive hotel that never reached light speed. It's the Star Wars Galactic Star Cruiser.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. If you like the big flop, you can listen early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. The Big Flop is a production of Wondery and AtWill Media, hosted by Misha Brown, produced by Sequoia Thomas, Harry Huggins, and Tina Turner, written by Anna Rubinova

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