The Big Flop - Gigli: A Cinematic Dumpster Fire with Peyton Dix and Hunter Harris | 47

Episode Date: August 5, 2024

Gigli would go down in history as not only one of the biggest box office bombs… but also the reason Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez broke up the first time. In 2001, Oscar nominated filmmaker Martin Brest penned the gritty tale of a lowlife mobster unable to escape his mundane existence, but by 2003 Gigli had been reverse engineered into a corny, sloppy, rom-com thanks to the Hollywood “it” couple at its center: Bennifer. Gigli was such a cringe-inducing flop, it lost $70 million and earned its place among cinema's biggest disasters.Co-hosts of Lemme Say This, Peyton Dix and Hunter Harris, join Misha to get LOUD about how bad this movie was.Listen to The Big Flop on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/the-big-flop/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to The Big Flop early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. How does a Hollywood train wreck unfold? It isn't hard to imagine, so I'm going to give it a shot with my own little semi-fictional script. Picture this. Director Martin Brest gets a frantic phone call. It's Joe.

Joe who? Joe Roth from Revolution Studios. Don't pretend like you don't know me. There's a problem. The test audience is hate your your cut of Sheely. What are you talking about? Says Martin. The picture is exactly what I was going for.

Gritty, meaningful, Joe cuts him off. It's depressing. And depressing doesn't get butts in seats. We've spent millions on this thing. We gave you two hot stars, your favorite crew, everything you asked for, and it sucks. Fix it, reshuffle it, reshoot it, anything. Make it nice.

Marty leans back in his chair, rubbing his temples. How are you supposed to make a crime thriller where the protagonist dies at the end? Nice. This isn't some rom-com where you can just slap a happy ending on it. Joe's voice strains. He insists, throw in more jokes. Add a bit of romance between Ben and Jennifer.

Just make sure people leave the theater smiling. Marty sighs, staring at a storyboard pinned to the wall. No, he mutters to himself, this is going to be a huge pile of crap and everyone will blame me. They'll blame you either way, says Joe, but if you don't do it, we will.... ... Larry Giggly, right? He pronounced it as Gilly. It rhymes with really.

Gilly, the film that brought Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck together. We had like a big wedding plan three days before. We just crumbled under the pressure. They can't all be winners. Yeah, I know. You know, nobody bats a thousand. Box office was less than we days before. We just crumbled under the pressure. They can't all be winners. Yeah, I know. You know, nobody bets a thousand. Box office was less than we'd hoped. There's worse movies than G. Lee out there. G. Lee will appeal to celebrity gawkers

and the certifiably insane. We are on a sinking ship. From Wondery and at Will Media, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time. I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar and big flop hitman at Don't Cross a Gay Man. And today, we're talking about the worst movie ever, G. Lee. From Wondery, I'm Indra Varma and this is The Spy Who.

This season we open the file on Oleg Penkovsky, the spy who defused the missile crisis. It's 1960 and the world's on the brink of nuclear war. However, one man in Moscow is about to emerge from the shadows with an offer for the CIA. His name is Oleg Penkovsky. As a Cold War double agent, Penkovsky wants to supply the US with the Soviet Union's greatest nuclear secrets. But is this man putting his life on the line to save the world? Or is he part of an elaborate trap? Follow the Spy Who on the Wondery app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can binge the full season of the Spy Who defused the missile crisis early and app

free with Wondery Plus. On our show today, we have the hosts of the Wondery Podcast. Let me say this, it's Peyton Dix and Hunter Harris. Welcome to the show. A roar of applause. That's what people are saying. Thank you for having us. I'm so excited. So here's a question. What's your relationship to Bennifer? Are we rooting for them? Am I? We're a one nation under Bennifer. Are you kidding? No, Hunter's part of their relationship. Like, I don't know if you know this.

I wake up and pray for them. I go to bed and pray for them. Like, I don't know what's going on with them right now, but I hope they're not about to break up. Yeah. But I think that's what it is. One Dunkin' Donuts run away from it, I feel. I know. Have you ever, like, poured your heart and soul into something that turned out terribly? My lived experience, being gay.

Like, hello. Every day, every single day of my life. Yeah. Just check my journals. It's all there. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, maybe, like, undergrad. Poured a lot into that. Didn't get anything out of it. Yeah. Well, our story today concerns one of the worst movies ever made,

and it all starts in New York City. In 1972, director Martin Brest turns his focus to a man whose name we all might recognize, Danny DeVito. At the time, Danny DeVito is a struggling photographer who hatches a plot to take the greatest photograph of all time. Well, he plays a character who does in Martin Brest's student film called Hot Dogs for Gauguin, written and directed by the promising younger filmmaker. After school, Marty, as his friends call him, bursts onto the Hollywood scene with enormous potential. His big break comes in 1979. It's called Going in Style. Starring popular aging actors of the time, it's a critical and commercial

success, not easy to do. And it's even remade in 2017 with Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine and Alan Arkin. Did you see it? No, actually. Missed that one. Missed it. Blind spot, cultural blind spot. Honestly, same. Well, between 1984 and 1992, he directs three films

and they're all major hits. Beverly Hills Cop, starring Eddie Murphy, there's a new one out. Heard. It's one of the biggest action comedies of all time. There's Midnight Run starring Bobby De Niro and Charles Grodin. It's critically acclaimed. It's a moneymaker and somehow also a cult classic.

And then Scent of a Woman, which nets four Oscar nominations for Best Director, Best Picture, Best Adapted Screenplay, and wins Al Pacino a Best Actor award. So all three of these films, they're tonally interesting and breaking genre molds effortlessly. Honestly, range. No, there is a kind of like tonal incoherence there that I find actually kind of amusing.

I think the flaws that come with that is he's very meticulous and he's very choosy. He's a self-described displaced New Yorker who misses his home and his movies have that kind of fish-out-of-water charm to them. He also gets really anxious when he's making these movies. Like, in college, he once dropped down to 118 pounds while shooting a student film. So, like, when he's at work, he once dropped down to 118 pounds while shooting a student film. So, like, when he's at work, he's all in.

No, it's never that serious. He's super thick, he's super pretty. Yeah. Wait, I was supposed to be like, wait, brag, okay? I'm alone. He's like, hashtag birth weight. Yeah. I know something before.

Well, after Scent of a Woman, Marty waits six years to make his next feature, which is Meet Joe Black, starring Brad Pitt as the personification of death and Anthony Hopkins as a billionaire about to die. Until now, Marty's offbeat, casual directing style, where he overshoots scenes and lets actors experiment, has served him well. But reviews for Meet Joe Black are mixed.

If Brad Pitt came to you in heaven, would you accept? He could come to me in hell and I would accept. Are you kidding? Well back in 2001, Martin is getting ready to get back on track with something decidedly less experimental than Meet Joe Black. And he has a great idea, and it's one that he will write himself. So this is what Marty is thinking. We swoop into the life of our protagonist, Larry Gilly.

Gilly is a two-bit criminal trapped in a mediocre life. He can't escape his own adolescence and grapples with a regressive view of the world. A mafia boss he works for orders him to kidnap a mentally disabled man named Brian who happens to be the brother of a federal prosecutor. Another contract killer, the beautiful Ricky, is sent to babysit and make sure Geely doesn't screw up the mission, and the three form an unconventional familial relationship with Geely and Ricky acting like older siblings to Brian. In the end, things get complicated, Ricky runs away and Geely is killed protecting Brian. Then, because of his enormous sacrifice, Gili has finally grown up and has symbolically

ended his life of crying. So that was his original idea. Do either of you know what Gili means in Italian? Not even a little bit. And my Italian ex would be so pissed that I didn't know that. Sorry. I thought it was like a fake made up word. No, it means lilies, like the flowers.

But it's also an alternative name for cornet de bouillé, a type of pasta that means ox horns. You're saying that and I'm like, well, I still don't know why he chose this as a last name. There's no metaphor. What am I supposed to get from this? I mean, I was thinking the ox horns because Ben Affleck's character keeps talking about the bowl and the cow.

I might just say top and a bottom, okay? Just say top and a bottom, bowl and a cow. You're pissing me off. That was crazy. Yeah, leads me to, Gilly's character is obsessed with masculinity in the movie, so the name is like a double entendre that hints at the journey he takes in the story, starting out as the bowl and then growing to something more...

beautiful. A lily. So the movie is a dark and gentle look at a man's struggle to overcome his circumstances. Not exactly a popcorn flick, but Marty's shining track record means funding? Easy to find. He gets backing from Revolution Studios, founded by an executive named Joe Roth. And with the help of Sony Pictures,

Roth is able to put up $54 million to make Marty's magnum opus. Do you know who Joe Roth is? Asher Roth's dad? No, I have no idea. Shut the fuck up. LAUGHING Well, Joe, he's a hit maker. He's produced the movies Young Guns, Major League, Die Hard 2, also this little Christmas film called Home Alone.

Don't know if you heard of it. Heard, heard of it. To be fair, he's also produced some bombs. In the 90s, he actually ends up $15 million in debt to Disney for losing them so much money. So that's not great. Miraculously, the debt is forgiven, he's given a raise, and then is installed as the studio's chief. So textbook case of failing upwards. I love men. Just like a man. Low-key like the American dream.

Like, one day I'll be a white man and that will happen to me. No, I have consequences. Imagine that. Yeah. Well, that gig lasts for six years, at which point Roth, having feuded with chairman and the CEO of Disney, Michael Eisner, too much, he exits through the back and founds revolution. Eisner then publicly says, quote, I don't consider him a great loss to this company.

Ooh, okay, that's kind of tea though. Yeah. That's kind of like housewives coded. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hoppinheimer coded. Yeah. So when the script for Geely is done, Marty feels like he's onto something great

and he gets to work casting. For the main character, Larry Gilly, he immediately thinks of Ben Affleck, an actor with a commanding screen presence, intimidating enough to be a mobster, but also someone with relatable vulnerability. Now, I have to pause here because I don't buy it. We'll get into how the movie ended up being the flop that it was, but his first idea and vision of this was a mob movie. And there are scenes in the movie when Ben Affleck is talking and I just don't buy it.

The Ben Affleck of it all is one of the stranger choices in the movie because he really doesn't work as like a very emotional actor and also doesn't work as a menacing kind of, like, anchor of this. It's so, like, gonzo and, like, goofy. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I also feel like they just were like, Ben Affleck's just a man from Boston, so, like, maybe it's up his sleeve, but, like, it really was not. Well, for Ricky, Marty wants an actor who is beautiful, sexy, and strong, but also gentle

and you know who checks all those boxes? Jenny from the block. Unfortunately, J.Lo turns the role down for scheduling reasons. So Halle Berry gets the part, but then she leaves to film X-Men 2. And the second time's the charm, Marty tries again, and J. Lo finally signs on. Marty thinks that Affleck and Lopez are perfect for the roles, but they're not exactly cheap.

What do you think the stars of Pearl Harbor and Made in Manhattan deserve to be paid for this movie? A hundred million dollars. (*LAUGHTER*) Maybe 150, depending on what day you catch me. Are you kidding me? The cultural footprint of G. Lee is so big. Like, is the movie a flop? Yes. Did it give us benefit? Also, yes. So you told me you can't put a price on love. Millions, millions. The limit does not exist.

Well Revolution Studios begrudgingly ponies up $12 million a piece for the stars, which is about $21 million in today money. $21 million is a lot, damn. Yeah, but I also love that it was a piece. They paid them both the same, so I love that. That's good. Equality. Equality. This movie is not giving gender equality, but outside of it we're getting gender equality.

But the lawyers are, the agents are. Yes. But for that money, this movie better be good. Although Revolution does have deep pockets, its startup budget was a quarter of a billion dollars. So good for them. Also joining the cast of G. Lee are legends Christopher Walken as a detective, and then unknown actor named Justin Bartha, playing Brian, the kidnapped victim. And of course, who do you cast as a terrifying mob boss? Al Pacino. Al Pacino.

Al Pacino. Al Pacino. So, what do you think? Good cast? Yes, Al Pacino and his little ponytail. Like... No, I'm sorry, he took it. He took it. The ponytail, like the disheveled suit.

When Al Pacino comes into the scene, I was like, oh, wait, the movie has begun. Like, now we're paying attention. He comes and like a bullet train, like he's really taking it. Actually, in my notes, I literally wrote, Al Pacino? Like, on screen. But I do love that he does everything with his full chest. That's my man, my man, question mark, question mark. Like, as he's on screen. But I do love that he does everything with his full chest. That's my man, my man, my man. For sure.

The below-the-line crew, nothing to sneeze at either. The director of photography's impressive resume includes Punch Drunk Love, Boogie Nights, and Magnolia. Gili's composer is fresh off the Italian job and the Bourne identity. And the costume designer did Blade Runner. I mean, come on. So, this flop, to me, feels like watching Titanic. Like, I know how it ends, but every time I watch it, I think Jack's gonna somehow, you know, survive.

But with everything shored up for G. Lee, production begins and ends without a hitch. It's really great. Well... well. But then something unexpected happens. Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck fall in love. Oh, those crazy kids. Hello, I'm Hannah.

And I'm Saruti. And we are the hosts of Red Handed, a weekly true crime podcast. Every week on Red Handed, we get stuck into the most talked about cases. From the Idaho student killings, the Delphi murders, and our recent rundown of the Murdoch saga. Last year, we also started a second weekly show, Shorthand, which is just an excuse for us to talk about anything we find interesting because it's our show and we can do what we like. We've covered the death of

Princess Diana, an unholy Quran written in Saddam Hussein's blood, the gruesome history of European witch hunting, and the very uncomfortable phenomenon of genetic sexual attraction. Whatever the case, we want to know what pushes people to the extremes of human behavior. Like, can someone give consent to be cannibalized? What drives a child to kill? And what's the psychology of a terrorist? Listen to Red Handed wherever you get your podcasts

and access our bonus short-hand episodes exclusively on Amazon Music or by subscribing to Wondry Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondry app. My name is Georgia King and I am thrilled to be the host of, and away we go, a brand new travel podcast on Wondry Plus, where we'll be whisked away on immersive adventures all around the world. Where we go, what we do,

what we eat, drink, and listen to, will all be up to my very special guests. We've got Ben Schwartz taking us on a whirlwind trip around Disneyland. We'll eat a bowl of life-changing pasta with Jimmy O'Yang in Tuscany, Italy. And how do you feel about a spot of sugaring off with Emily Hampshire in Montreal? And away we go, we'll immerse you in some of the wonders of the world. We're going to be seeing some yellows and vibrant oranges.

And the shoes clicking against the cobblestone. of the world. We're going to be seeing some yellows and vibrant oranges. And the shoes clicking against the cobblestone. If you're looking to get somebody in the mood, have them look at the Chicago skyline. You can listen to And Away We Go exclusively with Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Georgia, do you know what joy sounds like? I think I'm hearing it right now. On set, JLo and Ben Affleck, they meet for the first time. They're smitten.

But Lopez just married her backup dancer a couple of months before shooting. Whatever, love's love. So Lopez files for divorce from her second husband and the two go public with their relationship, gaining the mononym Bennifer, which we keep saying. They also revealed they're engaged just a few short months later and everyone goes gaga over the giant Harry Winston pink diamond that Affleck gives JLo. So how do you think this affects the movie?

I think we've got a blockbuster on our hands. I don't know what the problem could be. I was like, that's the marketing dream, is being like, thank God we can put these little show ponies to work. Thank God we can start some rumors and then they end up being true. Yeah, I mean, literally you cannot buy this kind of PR. Yeah.

So I mean, really great news. If G. Lee is halfway decent, this thing is going to make millions of dollars. That's a big if, because the script was never a fun romp, so that limits the fans to gritty crime capers. But the production, although smooth, seems geared toward making this movie completely unwatchable, in my opinion. The cast and crew can't really put their finger on it,

but it seems they know this fact on a subconscious level already. So Gilles' production designer, Gary Frutkopf, asks this very important question. Hunter, can you please read this quote from Gary's interview with cinema.com? This was a character-driven piece, which I'm always attracted to, and it had really good dialogue and heart. But I had to ask myself,

if the story is about a guy who doesn't care about aesthetics and doesn't have much in the way of possessions, how do we make it interesting? Do you have any advice for him? But what do we think happened? They set out to make a crime thriller and then saw actually people want a rom-com. So how do we retool this into a ranted comedy to like, you know, ride the benefit wave, which I've been on for 20 years. I know you could have told me this was like an independent film, a movie made with love, more than anything. It kind of reminds me of the way that Timothy Chalamet and Zendaya will like never actually have

chemistry. They have all the tools, they have all the backings to make something real sexy. And then it's just homies who happen to smooch. That's how it feels to me. Yeah, what we're talking about is half the movie takes place in Gili's or Affleck's apartment where he's holding Brian, the DA's special needs brother hostage, along with Ricky, aka JLo, the second contractor. But the problem is, Gili can't live in a glamorous luxury condo decked out with things to please the viewer's eye.

I mean, he's a hollowed out, turmoil-ridden dude, so his home needs to reflect that. And according to Fridkopf, the set is, quote, like a struggling actor's first apartment, and every actor who came to the set said, I lived in that place. That reminds me of Lucas Gage, his apartment, when he did that audition.

Oh my God, yes. And the director was like, oh my God, these people in their little nasty homes. No, literally him not owning a book is like, unfortunately, incredibly apt. I was like, I know a few men who have the same apartment. I'll tell you that. So like we said, G. Lee, he doesn't read or collect art,

so there's nothing on his dingy brown walls or shelves. His furniture and appliances are bare bones. His place is only decorated with painted over cigarette burns and shorted out electrical outlets. No problem. A good director can make anything sparkle with interesting angles, creative dolly maneuvers, right? No, because Marty likes to use the same couple of lenses

and basic shots in all of his movies. He repeats them over and over and over again, letting the performances be the eye candy. You know who was top of the call sheet? It was not J.Lo, and it was not Ben. It was J.Lo's midriff. That know who was top of the call sheet? It was not JLo and it was not Ben. It was JLo's midriff. That's who was top of the call sheet. Yes.

That's who was booking. Yeah. She like lowkey sold me on yoga in that one scene. Like, this is what people are talking about. I understand. Let me stretch. Hold on. Now let's get into the costumes, which we were just referring to.

I mean, they do need to be as uninteresting as the characters. So we're thinking dull browns, ugly maroons, durable fabrics, tracksuits, polo shirts, and the piece de resistance, Gilles' leather blazer. But what Peyton was just talking about, we cannot forget Ricky's insanely low-rise pants, thanks to the early 2000s. Yeah.

It was just all hip... She took it. It was ass-crack first. She entered that room ass-first. As she should, as is for God given right. As she should, yes. Meanwhile, the tabloids are plastered with pics of Bennifer being cute, and the hype intensifies as Marty hunkers down in his editing bay. The misplaced confidence? It's high. And all of the actors involved

think this is going to be a hit. They loved working with Marty, truthfully, and appreciate his supportive directing style. So let's read from an interview with the movie's two stars from cinema.com. Peyton, you'll be Lopez. Thank God. Hunter, you'll be Affleck. All right. You have not a very likable protagonist

whose behavior goes against the grain of how people should behave. It was exciting to try to do something where you don't have to follow all the normal guidelines of movie behavior. Ricky shows up out of nowhere and she's a very self-confident, self-assured enforcer. But then she starts quoting pearls of ancient Asian wisdom.

Somehow that doesn't quite fit the profile. Wait, she said I'm not like the other girls. She said I move different. I move different. No, I love it. Never let them know your next move. That's what she said. I think it's so crazy that Jennifer went on public record saying, what's my motivation

for this? Who knows? And then Affleck, he's like, we're breaking all the movie rules. Exciting, also dangerous. He's an unlikable protagonist. I should be going to David E. Kelly show on HBO. Where's my the undoing? Where's my big little lies?

Like, okay, queen. So Marty finishes his cut and proudly runs some test screenings. How do you think audiences react? Okay, I cheated. I looked this up before. Bad. Yeah. They hated it. They hated that Gili dies in the end. Yes. I mean, they found it sort of funny, mostly upsetting. They definitely did not like Ben Affleck dying in the end. They found it bizarre. Where is the happy ending?

So Revolution Studios' Joe Roth panics about these early impressions to the original cut. I mean, the studio has poured over $50 million into hiring the best actors and crew. Best actors. into hiring the best actors and crew. Best actors. LAUGHS I mean, they even gave Marty the costumer from Blade Runner for Pete's sake and for what? An ugly leather blazer?

So, to protect his investment, Joe Roth gives Marty an ultimatum. Marty needs to reshoot and re-edit huge swaths of the film. No more of this depressive, contemplative BS about failing to launch or whatever. Cut the death scene at the end and make it all sexy somehow. Gili must become a romcom. Now, why do you think he wants a romcom? Why not lean into the mafia stuff? I mean, Lopez, Affleck, and Pacino have all led gritty dramas successfully. That like, I'm sorry, they thought they were making like Mystic River, like the most capital

man with emotions movie ever. And instead they were making like Shakespeare in love. Yeah. And the thing about making this a rom-com is that JLo's character, Ricky, is a lesbian. And in that first version of the movie, she doesn't end up with Gilly because, uh, she's a lesbian. Wait, was JLo always, was her character always a lesbian from like first draft to final? Yes, it's worse because of what the edits do. Okay, don't piss me off then. Yeah, yeah. Let's make this a rom-com. I'll kill you.

Okay, let the girl be gay. As I was watching this, I was trying to, like, think about what is happening in the early 2000s, where, like, it's like straight men realize that lesbians exist. Between this and chasing Amy, like, the most, like, crazily offensive and reductive, but also like, oh my God, wait, but what if I can have sex with a woman who is queer? Like what if that is a possibility for me? And like Ben Affleck is somehow on the forefront of that effort.

Like we have to hold space for him calling her a Dicosaurus Rex. When I tell you, I said, let me just shut my computer real quick. So it is the early 2000s. We have to remember, you know, take us back to Bridget Jones' diary, How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days, J. Lone's Own the Wedding Planner. Those are all making bank at the time. So Roth figures with the popularity of Benifer at an all time high, it's time to strike while the iron is hot. Marty is horrified and he refuses. You can't just wave your magic wand and turn a crime drama into a rom-com. So tensions between Roth and Marty come to a head and post-production is shut down for eight months while they try

to hash out their differences. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So that's eight months of not knowing whether the whole project is going to get scrapped. Marty's labor of love and Roth's gigantic investment are both at risk. So then comes the ultimatum. Roth takes back the promise to give Marty final cut. Revolution will fix it with or without him. Marty can either quit or stay on and oversee the massacre of his precious work, the movie he not only directed but wrote, and he decides to make the worst business decision of his life. He stays.

So Peyton, could you please read this quote from Marty in Variety, looking back at this moment? Of course, of course. I'm off book. I'm off book. Okay. For the from Marty in Variety, looking back at this moment? Of course, of course, I'm off book, I'm off book, okay. For the first time in my career, I had become a true collaborator, not in the benign creative sense, but rather that of one who, in violation of their true allegiances,

cooperates with occupying forces. Occupying forces? No, he had something to say. Occupying forces? He said, let me get this off my chest. He No, he had something to say. Occupying forces. He said, let me get this off my chest. He said, hold on, hold on. Whoa. Yeah.

OK, he meant that shit. He kind of ate that. Well, the studio brings the cast back for reshoots, mostly just to tweak the ending. The production budget balloons to $75 million, and the title even changes from Geely to Tough Love then back to Geely, the studio fully accepting that this is now a directionless mess. By the time Geely is wrapped and edited, it's nonsensical. The serious comedy of the original film is amped up in the recut to help give it a rom-com vibe and to achieve this, takes are just smashed together in incredibly bizarre configurations, resulting in strange and unexplainable tonal shifts

throughout the movie. And the score adds more incongruity. So here's Geely's first scene. Remember, he's a low- life criminal working for the mob. And here he's in a laundromat talking to his hostage who's been stuffed into a dryer. A human body is like 80% moisture, right? How much do you weigh? 165, 170?

I figure if you could somehow extract 80% of that, be more like beef jerky, you know, but with hair and bones and teeth. It's the casual jazz music in the back that's really not working for me. It's giving prime time on USA Network. Like it's giving an episode of Monk. Yes, it's an episode of Monk! Literally, he's about to do a pot-a-bouret or something. I was like, there's something in here

that's about to turn way too jazzy. Six, seven, eight. So strange. But even though this is a romance now, Pacino's character still shoots a guy who's sitting next to an aquarium, sending some of his brains into the tank where the fish starts to nibble on them. shoots a guy who's sitting next to an aquarium, sending some of his brains into the tank where

the fish starts to nibble on them. Well, it doesn't stop there. You'll remember this, I'm sure. Ricky's ex-girlfriend shows up at random, self-harms is taken to the hospital, and then nobody ever brings it up again. Okay. And I'm glad you brought it up because I've been dying to talk about it for a fucking hot minute. That was when I was like, I've never seen this movie before. Like it was so crazy. And also the way that she like, self harms. It looked so like, I didn't even know what they were reacting to. I was like, what did she do? I also just was like, whoever made this movie hates lesbians. Just by the way, they were like, Google lesbians.

I said, yeah, that shit's crazy. Let's throw that in there. Like that. Yeah. What? The other thing is that I have to like, salute J.Lo that her girlfriend is in the hospital and she's still wearing a titty top to the emergency room. Like, J.Lo walked into that hospital and said, Seattle Grace, like, are you ready to make

history today? Like, I, like, are you ready to make history today? Like, I am like pulling a look. She actually makes a really good lesbian. Like J.Lo's hot as a lesbian and I'm a J.Lo hater down bad. So I got to tip my cap. Yeah. As a reminder, this is a romcom where the cis hetero male Larry Gili falls for and ends

up with a lesbian woman. That doesn't even begin to touch the conversation they have about how women have sex together versus how important a penis is. That was one of the crazier conversations I've ever witnessed on screen. It was out of control. Well, actually, we do have a clip of this brief little exchange. And for the listeners, please note that JLo is erotically stretching while Affleck is making this terrible case that they should bang.

That's why these lesbians are always going out by, you know, spending all their dough on, like, you know... sexual appliances, erotic monkey wrenches and shit, trying to compensate for what they don't have. sexual appliances, erotic monkey wrenches and shit, trying to compensate for what they don't have, what they're not getting. The penis. The penis is like some sort of bizarre sea slug

or like a really long toe. I mean, it's handy, important even, but the pinnacle of sexual design, the top of the list of erotic destinations, I don't think so. No, I'm sex-negative now. Sorry. I'm like, I now hate men and women. I'm actually, that's true feminism is being like, I actually hate you all.

Well, I'm so sorry. You did agree to be on this episode. So producers, lock the gates. Can we please roll the next clip? It's turkey time. No, not the turkey. Gobble, gobble. Huh? Gobble, gobble.

What? Now you talk the talk. You know I'm expecting you to walk the walk. Come on. Show me what I've been missing my whole life. Lay some of that sweet hetero-lingus on me. I'm going to say something which is actually true, is like, every lesbian has had this conversation with a man before. Not the second one, but the first one for sure.

I cannot tell you how many times a man has been like, yeah, what did he say? The monkey wrenches of lesbian... First of all, let's call her by her name. Okay, it's a dildo, first of all. Then the way with haste that she is so ready to be like, all right, fuck me. All right, fine. Hey, girl, fight back. Fight back just a little bit. My God. So that's the sexual tension between a lesbian and a man that doesn't take no for an answer. But the sad ending that left test audiences feeling ill at ease? That's gone.

It's replaced with Gili and Ricky literally driving off into the sunset to inspirational music. Or at least alongside the sunset if you're a stickler for celestial accuracy. But as the hype machine revs up to promote the film, people are getting very tired of Benifer. Sick of the overexposure and maybe even a little jealous, the media turns on the couple. So at Gilles' premiere, Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez hold their heads high. They ignore the paparazzi and make their way over to excited fans to sign some autographs.

For a brief moment, they can bask in adoration and forget how nervous they are that their movie will be despised. Roth, Marty, and Sony Pictures, they know what's coming. Critics are going to jump at the chance to give their best scathing hot take enshrining Gili as an embarrassment. They know that the marketing for Gili has been a complete bait and switch, and they're bracing themselves for inevitable backlash. Posters are misleading,

looking almost like they're made for a Hallmark movie. And trailers desperately hide the fact that Lopez's character is a lesbian to fool rom-com fans. So let's watch that trailer. The harder they resist it. A woman is beautiful. Now don't get yourself all tied in a knot. The stronger it becomes. I got this beautiful, sexy, unattainable girl

sleeping in a bed right next to me. This is driving me crazy. Every relationship has a fall in a cone, huh? Sure. She-Li. I understand being mad. Yeah. I'll say I actually think Tough Love is a much better title.

Totally, totally. And probably would look better in that FOM treatment, but that's just me. BOWEN LAUGHS What are the obvious rom-com tropes here? First of all, they're not really ever in the same shot. They're both, like, gazing at one another. That's the big one.

Yeah. Imagine you've never seen the movie before. Are you fooled? A hundred percent. Yeah. People are going in thinking they're going to see the hottest couple in Hollywood falling in love, but instead they get Ben Affleck cutting off

a cadaver's thumb and a fish in a tank munching on the brains of a murder victim. And wait, sorry, we also have to hold space for Justin Bartha rapping, Baby Got Back as Ben Affleck is cutting a thumb off a cadaver. I mean, that is like some Robert Durst level stuff. That's like the Jinx. Yeah.

I mean, unsurprisingly, audiences feel cheated and the movie tanks almost immediately. And in that tank, Little Fish nibble on the movie's remains. After its second weekend, the movie slips even further, setting the record in 2003 for the biggest second weekend drop. It's still at number 12 today. Wow. Now, critics excoriate the movie. By the way, if you haven't seen it, that's a reference to

the movie. At one point, Gilles' boss tells him he's learning new words and to excoriate quote, means to strip or wear off the skin of or to flay. So let's take a look at some reviews. Hunter, could you read Newsweek? After the schadenfreude and thrill of watching beautiful people humiliate themselves wears off, it has the same annihilating effect on your will to live. Ooh. Peyton, could you do the John Wilson of the Razzie's? I don't care how medicated you are or what people you're watching it with. Gili is just a pain in the posterior.

It's one of those things that is, as opposed to enjoyably embarrassing, it's just skin-crawlingly embarrassing. That was generous. Hunter, could you please read a review from The Washington Post's Stephen Hunter? Yes. The movie has no structure at all, no sense of urgency, no compelling reason to exist or be endured whatsoever. The scenes play on and on and on and the story

winds down by ways of no consequence whatsoever." That's a thing though. There are no consequences for any of these people's actions. No. I mean, even the folks involved with the movie give it a thumbs down. Like, Affleck said, it's just spectacular. It's a tsunami. It couldn't be worse. This is as bad as it gets. And Marty himself says, it's a really bloody mess that deserved its excoriation. I mean, he really loves that word. He really brought himself back to self-reference. Self-reference. Dictionary.com. Yeah. Additional complaints include full plot lines being dropped halfway through, subpar acting, inconsistent characters, and the performance of the mentally disabled character

Brian is found to be problematic, like unquestionably offensive. Perhaps, unsurprisingly, G. Lee sweeps the Razzies, winning for worst picture, worst actor, worst actress, worst screen couple, worst director, and worst screenplay. Ten, ten, tens across the board. Yeah. So, Joe Roth at Revolution Studios really hoped the hot young couple's real-life love would translate to cold hard

cash. But it turns out, the Bennifer buzz isn't all it's cracked up to be. By the time the movie is released, the public is already tired of Bennifer this and Bennifer that, and no one feels the need to go see a movie with more of this overexposed couple. All in all, Gilly grosses less than $8 million worldwide. So it loses an estimated $70 million, not counting potential millions in marketing cost, and cements itself as one of the worst movies of all time. It currently has a 6% rating on Rotten Tomatoes with an audience score of 13%, and a 2.6 on IMDb with over 50,000 ratings. And it all but caused the end of Bennifer 1.0. For years, the cast and crew have been dogged by how Gili turned out, even after they'd

long moved on and found success in other ways. Ben Affleck, he's still a movie star and lauded writer-director, but he's still haunted by Gili's specter. Here he is talking to his best bud, Matt Damon, about how it felt getting the wrong kind of attention. But I thought, like, this is really not how I had hoped to go, where I'm going to still be what famous for being an asshole or a failure and not able to work. I just can't think of any worse outcome because I've never found any virtue in fame at all.

Short of like, I've probably gotten out of a couple of tickets. I've gotten reservations. But the whole point was to be able to do this job. That was it. Otherwise, what is it worth? It just, it's corrosive. It changes the relationship you have with other people. It can engender resentment. It can get between you and other people. There's not a lot of merit to like fame in and of itself.

Okay, hold on. I'm sorry. Like I have to call bullshit. You're right. I know he can say, oh, it engenders resentment. It has no merit. Okay, we get it. You went to Harvard, first of all. Second of all, he's a Leo.

Are you kidding? We live for attention. We like even in talking about how much he hates attention, he's doing it in the most attention seeking way possible, i.e. on a Zoom with his famous best friend, hunched over in his chair, like most main character syndrome ever, sorry. Yeah. Ah.

Ah. So let's do a little, where are they now? Roth sold his company, and for a while, it seemed he'd lost everything. But he did eventually claw his way back into the movie business, producing big budget features like Maleficent. He also co-owned a successful Major League Soccer team for a few years, so I think he's going to be okay. Martin Brest, meanwhile, hasn't directed a movie since.

He won't even say the name G-League. He merely calls it the G-movie. The less said about it, the better, he jokes. In 2009, his student film, Hot Dogs for Gauguin, became one of 25 films chosen by the Library of Congress to be preserved as an artistic treasure. Ben Affleck still puts Marty up on a pedestal, and he thanked him during his best picture acceptance speech for Argo for teaching him how to direct. Now, there's no publicly available director's cut of G. Lee, so it's genuinely debatable whether it was ever any good. I mean, could Marty have just made a bad movie to begin with? Probably.

What do you think? Should they release the breast cut? Ew. And that's a joke right out of G. Lee actually. I want to see every single cut, every single scene of this movie. I needed actually to fuel me, to feel me. Well, despite his critically panned role, Justin Bartha, who played Brian,

went on to star in many movies, including the National Treasure series and the hangover comedies. Affleck and Lopez broke up the next year calling off their wedding, and they cited the horrible treatment they received after Gili and the nonstop tabloid harassment that made their relationship too difficult to maintain. But as of today, the original Benifer is back together. Affleck and Lopez got married in 2022. And although we wish them well, celebrity love, it's very unpredictable. So here on The Big Flop, we try to be positive people and kind of end on a

high. So are there any silver linings that you have that came from G. Lee? I was about to be like, you got the wrong bitches on this podcast, and I was like, you got the wrong girls, baby. Feel free to be a little shady. Yeah, we're just fucking haters, so... Hunt. I think a win is that after G. Lee,

Ben Affleck was so spurned that he was like, let me open final draft and write Gone We Be Gone. Like, let me do anything else. And this is the movie that I think he credits for like making him actually become serious about directing. So that's a good thing. I think it can't get worse than Jeeley, so it's only up from there.

I think that's beautiful. So, now that you both know about this movie flop that was carefully hidden in the depths of my brain for years, would you consider this a baby flop, a big flop, or a mega flop? Mega? The biggest flop there's ever been. Mega super bass flop. Oh my God, I'm in the splash zone. Oh my God, that's Shamu.

Yeah. No, it was biblically bad. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Thank you so much to our silver screen worthy guests, Hunter Harris and Peyton Dix for joining us here on The Big Flop. And thanks to all of you for listening.

If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review. We'll be back next week with a flop that had folks ready to bring out their torches and pitchforks. It's Season 8 of Game of Thrones. Bye! If you like the big flop, you can listen early and ad free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at

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