The Big Flop - The Most Hated Man In America: Pharma Bro Martin Shkreli with Kyle Prue and Miles Bonsignore | 71

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

Martin Shkreli jacked up drug prices, trolled the world, and bought a two million-dollar Wu-Tang album before the age of 35. But the karma (and real) police came for the Pharma Bro when the world caught wind of his price-gouging antics on life saving medicine. From hedge fund schemes to court-room memes, Martin earned the now infamous title of “Most Hated Man in America”.Kyle Prue (How to Piss Off Men) and Miles Bonsignore (Perfect Person, Try Guys) join Misha to give Martin Shkreli a taste of his own medicine. Follow The Big Flop on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Big Flop early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.Be the first to know about Wondery’s newest podcasts, curated recommendations, and more! Sign up now at https://wondery.fm/wonderynewsletterListen to The Big Flop on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Start your free trial by visiting wondery.com/links/the-big-flop/ now.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Psst. Hey, you. Yeah, you. The one who can't get enough of the Big Flop? I've got a proposition for you. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts, and you'll unlock a treasure trove of ad-free episodes and early access to the Big Flop. It's like having a secret map to the most notorious corporate catastrophes. Trust me, it's an offer you can't refuse. Martin Shkreli always has a smug smile on his face. Whether he's running his massive pharma company, trolling his critics on Twitter, or even right now, while sitting in a courtroom on trial for massive fraud.

Despite the fact that Martin may be the most hated man in America because he jacked up the price of a life-saving drug, he's not worried about his court case. He's got millions to spend on wine, a one-of-a-kind Wu-Tang Clan album, and the best lawyer's money can buy. Speaking of which, Martin's lawyer is about to begin his opening statement. Martin is confident his lawyer will be able to find a way to get the jury on his side.

He puts his hands behind his head, closes his eyes, and leans back to enjoy his side. He puts his hands behind his head, closes his eyes, and leans back to enjoy his defense. Martin's lawyer starts addressing the jury. But wait, did his lawyer just say something about how weird Martin is? And now his lawyer is talking about how nuts Martin is? What the heck is going on? Martin looks over at the jury to see how they're taking all this. A dozen faces scowl back at him.

They don't just find him a little unlikable. They all look like they want to punch him in the face. Wait, did Martin's own lawyer just say that he also wants to punch Martin in the face sometimes? Looks like that smug smile isn't going to be on Martin's face much longer, either because of prison or a right hook from his own attorney. When my drug company went public, I became a millionaire. I was probably 28 or something.

He raised the price of a drug used by AIDS patients. The internet exploded with rage. He was even called a disgusting specimen of humanity. From Wondery and Atwill Media, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails and blunders of all time. I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar and author of How to Piss Off Internet Trolls 109 Things to Say to Shatter Their Wi-Fi Confidence at Don't Cross a Gay Man. And today we're talking about Martin Shkreli, better known by his super villain moniker, Pharma Bro. Get ready for Las Vegas style action at Bed MGM, the king of online casinos. Enjoy casino

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19 plus to wager, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have any questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2600 to speak to an advisor, free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. Now everyone on our show today, I'm so excited and I have to say that hopefully so he won't

sue me for my opening. It is an actor, a writer, and content creator. His new book, How to Piss Off Men, 109 Things to Say to Shatter the Male Ego, recently hit shelves. It's none other than Kyle Prew. Welcome to the show. Thank you, thank you. I am gonna sue you, but that was very nice.

I love that. Yeah. Also on our show is a podcaster and YouTuber. You may know him from the Try Guys YouTube channel or from his very successful podcast, Perfect Person, it's Miles Bonsignore. Welcome, Miles. Hello. Happy to be here to discuss the flop.

We love flops. So okay, before we get into the story of him, I gotta ask, what do you both know about Martin Shkreli? All I know him is he's kind of like a little shriveled guy. He's sort of like a little toad that needs to be squashed. I can picture his little rat face perfectly. Right. Yeah, I wanna put him in a mason jar and shake it really hard.

You want to make sort of handmade whipped cream with a marble. Yeah, yeah. I want to make an aioli. Nice. Today's episode is all about Martin Shkreli, the Pharma Bros. CEO whose massive drug company financed his lavish lifestyle, but who went from trolling on Twitter to rotting in a jail cell. What's so crazy about Martin is that he had all the makings

of a classic inspirational American story, like if he hadn't decided to fully embrace his dark side. Martin is born in 1983. He grows up in Brooklyn with parents who are immigrants from Eastern Europe and they work as janitors. As a kid, he gets interested in chemistry when he learns that one of his family members

has treatment resistant depression. But there's something Martin likes more than chemistry sets, cash. So he also gets interested in investing. And chasing those bucks is where Martin immediately puts most of his energy. When he's just 17, he gets a gig working as an intern at a hedge fund. What do you think that says about Martin that he starts working at a hedge fund? Yeah, it seems like he got a taste for evil like sort of quick. When I was 17, I was having a coffee and enjoying my friends.

I wasn't sort of interested in hedge funds and investing at all. Enjoying your friends, it sounds extremely salacious. Oh, trust me, I was enjoying them. I was enjoying them so hard. I mean, when you're 17, you have the kind of energy that is sort of bottomless. To be an intern at a hedge fund, I would rather do it at 17 than 28. I couldn't do it now. By the way, that hedge fund Martin's working at is run by Jim Kramer.

Jim Kramer, as you may recall, is that over caffeinated shouty guy who hosts Mad Money on CNBC. Oh my God. Yes. My favorite guy. The idea of these two interacting, like in any capacity whatsoever, is enough to fry my brain. This makes me want the biopic cameo of Jim Cramer like so bad.

You know, like Paul Giamatti walking in for like two minutes of the movie. That'd be great. Well, while there, Martin may or may not have learned the secret to what makes Jim Kramer so sweaty and disheveled, but he does learn about a way to make massive investment profits. Researching biotech company stocks and shorting companies that he thinks aren't going to be up to snuff. What do you know about short selling? I watched the big short, so I kind of know everything there is to know about it.

Yeah. It's when something go bad, but you think it's gonna go bad before it go bad, yeah? Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're basically purchasing insurance on a stock. Should it drops, you make money. I also saw the big short recently. Yeah, basically it just means that instead of betting that a company's stock price is

going to go up, you're betting that it's going to go down. That's the oversimplified version. It's the perfect type of investing for someone like Martin who always embraces the negative side of things and loves being a villain. It does feel like the nerdy way to be a bully. Yes. I'm actually gonna short your stock. I wish I could do this to people.

Yeah, shorting other influencers' stock, yeah. Yeah. Pretty great. I'm like, great video, I just purchased two shares on your downfall. purchase two shares on your downfall. So in 2006, Martin starts a hedge fund of his own and things immediately go south because Martin takes a big risk that does not pay off. In 2007, he puts down $2.6 million, betting that the stock market is going to tank. He's wrong, though he's only off by a few months. As you may recall, by 2008, the Great Recession would be in full swing.

So sorry, bad timing, Martin. That's also in the big short. Because of his bad gamble, Martin winds up owing Lehman Brothers $2.3 million. They sue him and then he refuses to pay up. How do you think he's going to get out of this situation? I think I have an idea. By the way, I don't like that now when rich people do bad things, it's just like, I'm actually not going to pay that. People are just owing millions of dollars and they're just saying no, which really is a toddler's way out and I don't appreciate it.

Well, Martin, he gets bailed out because before his debt comes due, Lehman Brothers collapses in that Great Recession I mentioned. As if the Great Recession weren't bad enough already, it also helped out Martin Shkreli. So, what do you think he learned? Nothing. Nothing! He's a fucking dwarf, man. It's like, oh, the person I owed money to disappeared and went bankrupt.

Clearly there's a divine protection that resides over me. Well, in 2008, Martin starts another hedge fund named MSMB Capital Management. And at this new fund, he continues to focus on shorting stocks. And Martin doesn't just short a stock and then sit back and hope the price goes down. Martin is seen bashing companies on the Internet whose downfall he would benefit from. When he bets against a company called Mankind, Martin writes a letter to the FDA to try to get them to say no to one of the company's products. He even gets into a public shouting match with Mankind's CEO.

As a result, Mankind's share price goes down 66% and Martin makes a big profit. To bet against mankind is... I know! It's so fitting. It's gauche, it's on the nose. Yeah, it's a little too written for the movie. Yeah, I feel like the script needs one more pass. Yeah.

Exactly. But Martin's favorite move to drive a company stock down, the script needs one more pass. Exactly. But Martin's favorite move to drive a company stock down, thus earning him big money, is to talk trash about that company online. And if there's one thing we'll see today, it's Martin loves talking trash online, especially on Twitter, the ultimate trash talking social network. But as Martin hits the big time and the money rolls in, he starts buying up all kinds of pricey art and collectibles. He buys a Picasso, a manuscript signed by Isaac Newton, a World War II-era Enigma code

machine and letters written by Charles Darwin and mathematician Ada Lovelace. I don't think this guy should have art in his house. I think he's a toad. And I do think that he shouldn't be allowed to look at paintings. He strikes me as the kind of guy who wouldn't know about art. Like, that it wouldn't have come across his desk, you know? You know paintings? And he's like, paintings? What are you talking about?

No, no. When I was 17, I worked at a hedge fund. I've been being homophobic on Twitter for the last 20 years. I've never seen a painting. Well in 2011, Martin starts a new company called Retrofin. Now his plan for the company is basically to find obscure drugs, buy them, and then massively raise their price. And obviously this is terrible if you are someone who depends on one of those drugs for your health. It's completely taking advantage of vulnerable people.

But here's the really messed up thing. There's nothing illegal about doing this. It's totally unethical, but it's totally legal. That's awesome, man. We live in such a cool place. It's really great. Yeah, such a cool place. I feel like you said that like we were going to be really surprised by it.

I can't keep getting tricked, you know? Turns out that's not illegal. I'm like, yeah, well. That tracks. Martin's new company and his ethically questionable strategy catapult him into success. Less than two years later, he snags a spot on the 2013 Forbes 30 Under 30 list. Which is, it's pretty much like a wait list for prison. It's like an open table for getting put in jail.

It's a resi for a cell block. Yeah. But also was he, sorry, was he on the Forbes 30 under 30 for just like being really rich? Cause everything he did was dumb and bad. He just was rich about it. He was on the list because Forbes was particularly impressed that he blew up a merger between two pharma companies and annoyed Pfizer until they fired one of their board members.

I like the idea, you know, they do categories. They're like streamers, creators, fashion, douchebags. Like that is a good category. There'd be a lot of contenders there. Little guys who look like rodents, who we just can't wait to choke. You know who else once made the Forbes 30 Under 30 list? The star of one of our previous Big Flop episodes, Sam Bankman Fried. I thought you were going to say Elizabeth Holmes. Also Elizabeth Holmes. Wait, that's crazy. Sam Bankman Fried. I thought you were going to say Elizabeth Holmes.

Also Elizabeth Holmes. Wait, that's crazy. So Sam Bankman Fried, and I guess it's just because like, previous to being criminals, they're just kind of, quote unquote, innovators in the space, and then they do bad stuff. Yeah. There is a very, almost indiscernible fine line

between innovator in the space and felon. Yeah, right. It's a few documents that you forgot to shred. So between 2012 and 2014, Martin and Retrofin rake in $100 million in investor money. Though, to be fair to those investors, many of them thought that Retrofin was going to be researching new drugs and new treatments, not just taking old drugs and charging insane prices for them. But Martin's shady behavior isn't just limited to price gouging.

Behind the scenes, Martin is taking money from Retrofin and using it to pay off debts that got racked up when he was running his previous firm MSMB and also some lawsuits that he was dealing with himself. Now you're very much not allowed to do this. Just because you started both companies doesn't mean they're your personal piggy bank. So when Retrofin board members get wind of this in September of 2014, they very wisely replace him as CEO and Martin leaves the company. So he was committing fraud and they were like, hey man, you should go home. Honestly, on a lot of these flops, the company's just like, you can stay, it's okay. I'm going to need you to clock out, big dog.

Wait, he was spending like millions of dollars of company money and it's like, I'm going to need you to log out of Slack. Like five minutes ago. Yeah, okay. Like five minutes ago. But Martin, as most sewer rats do, immediately bounces back, setting up another new pharma company that he calls Turing. And at Turing, Martin is basically going to be doing the same thing he did at Retrofin, buying up drugs and charging people way too much money for them. Question, if you were Martin, what would you do at your next company? Would you just keep trying to do the same thing?

Let me put myself in the mindset. If I was Martin Shkreli, I mean, this guy's so rich, he can basically do whatever. Like, he's just after power. I guess I'd keep doing my bad behaviors. But if I was Martin Shkreli, I think I'd log off by a boat and then just kind of hang out in a cool place. Yeah, if I woke up in Martin Screli's body, I would choke myself to death. I think.

So one of the first drugs that Martin targets with his new company touring is called Daraprim. It's not a very well-known drug, but it's on the World Health Organization list of essential medicines. And that's because Daraprim is used to treat toxoplasmosis, a parasitic infection that you can get from eating undercooked food or from exposure to cat poop.

And if you're elderly or have immune system issues or are pregnant, toxoplasmosis can pose a serious risk to your health. So in August of 2015, Turing acquires DeraPrim and immediately raises the price. Now, before Martin, DeraPrim cost $13.50 per pill. How much do you think DeraPrim costs after it gets the Martin Shkreli treatment? Wasn't it like, I feel like it was in the thousands of dollars. No? It was like, I'm going to say $3,000 a pill. A little less than that.

It was $750. Oh, then that's fine. Oh, that's actually good. Yeah. That's really smart business. Weird. That's what he says too. It'd be really funny if by the end of this we got really on board.

But you just can't keep him down. Let's free Martin, man. So Martin charges $750 for just one pill. And again, this is legal, it is just totally wrong. The move makes headlines in the New York Times and immediately draws outrage. In September of 2015, the HIV Medicine Association and the Infectious Diseases Society of America write a letter to Martin protesting the price raise. This is also all happening during the primary season leading up to the 2016 presidential

election. Don't know if you remember it. So it immediately becomes a campaign issue. And it turns out that hating Martin brings people together in a bipartisan way. Bernie Sanders calls Martin a poster boy for drug company greed. And even Donald Trump says, that guy is nothing.

He's zero. He's nothing. He ought to be ashamed of himself. Oh my God. Well Martin decides to do some press to try to explain his move. So let's take a look at a clip from one of those interviews. Why was it necessary to raise the price of Daraprim so drastically? Well, it depends on how you define so drastically, because the drug was unprofitable at the former

price. So any company selling it would be losing money. And at this price, it's a reasonable profit, not excessive at all. Yeah, but if you are not making a profit at $3, you can make a profit at $6. Correct. This is like, we're just barely breaking even. It's like, well, double it from three to six. It's just business, man.

Like, look, my hands are tied. Like, I had to raise the price to $700. It gets to the point where the BBC says Martin might be the most hated man in America. And no one hates him more than the internet. So to take a look at some of the things folks are saying online about Martin, let's play a game. Now I'm going to read you an internet comment about Martin with one word removed and you have to fill in the blank. Ready? Yeah. Hell yeah.

have to fill in the blank. Ready? Yeah. Hell yeah. First one, Martin Shkreli is a morally bankrupt blank. Oh, I'm gonna go with shrew. Oh, shit boy. The answer is he's a morally bankrupt sociopath. Ah. I like shit boy better. Yeah. Second one, another commenter says Martin is a blank monster. Oh, I'm going to go with shit boy. That's what I was going to say. Maybe unmitigated. He was called a garbage monster. All right.

One more. Finally, one Twitter user wrote, there are bad people in the world and then there is Martin Shkreli. Not even a blank. Not even a person? That's a pretty good one. We're gonna give it to you. Ding, ding, ding.

Not even a human. Okay. Hell yeah a human. Okay, hell yeah. Yeah. Okay, so do you think those comments are fair? Yep. Yeah. Yep. Here we go. We're all in agreement. Yeah, I'm on board. I mean, we all love a villain. You know what I mean? It's good to sort of log on and have everyone clown in the same person, especially when they really deserve it and they look like a toad.

So it's like all kind of a win-win. really deserve it and they look like a toad. So it's like all kind of a win-win. Well, how does he feel about it? How does he feel about people hating him so much? He loves it. He says, it's fun to see people get so animated. And when people come at him, Martin is more than happy to punch back.

He gets up in his critics mentions, calling them idiots and tweets things like, hedge funds down 20% have a lot of fucking balls to criticize me. Try hedging dipshits. Charming. It's such a burn for dorks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Try hedging, idiots. Whatever.

You suck. Try your underwear over your head, loser. But here's my general kind of feeling. It is extremely, extremely hard to dunk on somebody who has a humiliation fetish, which I do think is like, I'm not kidding, clearly something at play here. I think there is some kind of, like, thrill that he is getting out of being show detested. Yeah, like, it's, it's, I'm like, ugh, we're, like, part of it now. Feeding the monster.

We're pleasuring him now. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Martin has decided to fully own his villain era, and he's given up on even remotely trying to defend himself. During a Q&A at a Forbes summit when he's asked if he would have done anything differently, he replies, raise the price higher. And I could have raised it higher and made more profits for people. And not only is he not defending himself, Martin decides he's going to throw all his

energy into being a little online troll. And he just goes ahead and admits that's what he's doing. He flat out tweets, I am the original internet troll. Child. Again, doesn't really have a way with words. And this strategy leads him to posting things that are basically designed in a lab to piss people off as much as possible. He posts pictures of him drinking $1,000 bottles of wine

and selfies of him in a helicopter and next to a pool in the Hamptons. In fact, let's take a look at a photo of him from one of his tweets. Okay, so like, what's up here, right? Like this is a, this is a Flowrida music video. Which one is Flowrida and which one is Martin? No idea.

It's hard to say. It's almost impossible to discern. I'll also say like everyone obviously hates him. This tweet didn't perform well. Like he's, millions of people are aware of this guy. He only has 26 faves. So in another one of Martin's posts, he also makes some claims about his love life

that I think are pretty sus. He tweets, 50 to 100 date solicitations a day for me, the world's most eligible bachelor. Sorry, but you have to be a shareholder to meet me. I think Martin looked at the bot section of Instagram and he had like a bunch of solicitors and he's like, there are horny women all over the city ready to meet me. Yeah. You wouldn't believe how many hot singles are in my area, but I'm waiting for one that has a portfolio.

Yeah. Well, at this point, Martin should be spending less time bragging about how he's doing on dating apps and more time worrying about his legal trouble because he's under investigation by the feds. So why do you think he's being investigated? His vibe, his aura. He's just negative Nancy attitude. If I work at the FBI, I'd see tweets like that

and I'd be like, let's go check this shit out. I feel like I'd be like, yo, Tom, come here. Let's just shake this tree, see what falls out, right, brother? Well, the investigation has nothing to do with Martin's price gouging. Like we said, raising those drug prices may be completely immoral, but it's also completely legal. But remember how Martin was shifting money around all his different companies, using cash from Retrofin and using it to pay off those MSMB debts? The government has been investigating that.

They think he's basically been running his businesses like a Ponzi scheme. But Martin's still trying to keep his I-don't-give-a-fuck internet troll image. And how does he do that? By getting even more online. In November of 2015, he starts live streaming on YouTube. He streams himself playing video games, playing the guitar, he even streams himself while he's sleeping. And these streams are sometimes 10 hours long.

And during them he has chats with viewers and, no surprise, he likes to argue with them. I feel bad for him that he got into it right before Twitch. He could have monetized. He was just doing that for the love of the game, which is really the saddest part altogether. I am curious what games he was playing. I'm kind of like, was he good? Was he an elite gamer? Or like, what's up? Well, Martin's biggest outrage comes when the Wu-Tang Clan releases their mythical album, Once Upon a Time in Shaolin. They make one copy of the record and it's priced at $2 million.

And Martin is the one who ends up buying it. It's the most expensive album ever sold. And people are pissed that he's the one to have the album. And in response to the outrage, Martin says, haven't even listened to it yet. So... I think the reason it is so, so infuriating is because he is the least Wu-Tang personalized. is because he is the least Wu-Tang personalized. Agreed. He embodies the opposite of the Wu-Tang philosophy.

He embodies Big Wiggles energy, and he's got the album. Also, I think you're honestly, Kyle, about him having a humiliation gank, because I'm just like, when will it be enough? Like, he's just, you know, it's time after time, he keeps reminding people that he's a little, what's he would just say, shit boy.

Yeah, well, it's like, sometimes I like see things on the internet where someone's like, this guy DMs me a picture of his extremely tiny penis and was like, no, please don't post this. Like, it's like, we're getting tricked. We're getting tricked by dunking on people who that is the only thing that will get them off. Well, it's not just Wu-Tang fans who are outraged by this.

Wu-Tang clan member GhostfaceKilla weighs into Dunk on Martin too. Let's take a look. This is the guy right here that planned on challenging me. The man with the 12 year old body. This is who he be. His name is Corelli right there. When y'all see him, goes verse Peter Pan in like 2016. You know what I mean? All he can do right now is just try to fly away in front of my face, man. You know what I mean? But so this is, this is where, this is him.

12 year old body is one of the best burns I've ever heard in my life. Yeah, Peter Pan looking ass, like, he really got him. I would like to see an insult battle between Wu-Tang Clan and Martin Shkreli, though. Yeah, he'd be like, try hedging, and then they'd kill him. They'd beat the shit out of him. They'd beat him to a bloody match. Well, and by the way, Ghost isn't just making fun of Martin's appearance, he also savages his business practices and his general ethics as a human being.

Let's watch. The problem I had with him when I was being interviewed was that he has no respect for life. He raised the price. I've been in on him from $, 1350 to $750 a pill for these AIDS victims. And it was just like, yo, how could you do something? Like, that's 5,000%.

That's well said. Totally. How would you feel if you were getting called out by a member of the Wu-Tang Clan? God, it would be so embarrassing. But again, he's already at the bottom of the pit of the embarrassment. I think, I don't know who could shake.

You know what? The only person that could possibly shake him up would be if Musk came after him. His number one guy like this, you know, Martin Screlli's gotta love Elon. It's also interesting. Like a lot of these habitual kind of trolls or instigators or like antagonists, whatever you want to call them, do develop cult-like followings. That's kind of our country's whole thing right now. But it is interesting that Martin never got fanboys.

There's no gang behind him. Right. Just sort of universally despised and hated. And not even able to turn that into any kind of traction whatsoever is just a Herculean failure of charisma. Right. Well, it's not just Kyle Pru and Wu Tang that ends up taking Martin down. It's the

FBI. On December 17th, 2015, they arrest Martin on charges of fraud. After the arrest, the official Twitter account of the New York FBI answers the question on everybody's mind. What happened to that Wu-Tang Clan album? But they announced they did not seize the album during the arrest. So Martin may be in handcuffs, but the Wu-Ting clan will have to wait to get justice. Now, the day after his arrest, Martin resigns as the head of touring. And as you can imagine, nothing makes the internet happier than when bad things happen to Martin. I will say the day he got to prison must have felt like Black Friday. Doorbuster specials. So naturally, the people are tweeting out their zingers with one user posting, Martin

Shkreli's bail was set to be at $500,000, but they raised it to $27.5 million just for him. It's so funny because they could have made a profit at $500,000. They could have made a profit at 500,000. They could have made a profit at 500K. So how do you think this trial is gonna go for him? I mean, he's so unlikeable. There's no world where it doesn't get settled out. And again, I worry he's gonna get on the stand

and be like, look at my tiny little penis. Like the guy is just trying to get hate. He doesn't care if he's in prison, right? He wants this. This is the one man who you cannot make a jury of his peers. It's funny that you should say that, because Martin's trial starts in June of 2017, and his defense team immediately runs into a huge problem.

And that is, people hate him so much it was almost impossible for them to find jurors who aren't already biased against him. So, Miles and Kyle, could you alternate doing dramatic readings of these comments from potential jurors? Yes, absolutely. I'm aware of the defendant and I hate him. I think he's a greedy little man. When I walked in here today, I looked at him and in my head, that's a snake. Not knowing who he was, I just walked in and looked right at him and was like, that is a snake.

That's someone that did not know who he was and just had a bad feeling about him. Just like, oh, oh, uh-oh. The vibe in here is just slithery. The only thing I'd be in parcel about is what prison this guy goes to, yeah. Your Honor, totally he is guilty, and in no way can I let him slide out of anything.

It's my attitude toward his entire demeanor, what he has done to people, and he disrespected the Wu-Tang clan. That's diabolical. Now, none of those people wound up being selected for the jury, but it's clear that the hate for Martin has gone from online to IRL. Even Martin's own lawyer admits there are times when he wants to punch Martin in the face, which is not great. Your lawyer can't be like shit talking you, but he's so bad that the lawyer had to be like,

look, I want to kill the guy too. That was his opening statement. He was like, listen, like, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I mean, this guy blows. Like, don't get me wrong. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I mean, this guy blows, like don't get me wrong. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, can you imagine being me right now? I mean, you're joking, but during his opening statement, Martin's lawyer literally says, is he strange?

Yes. Will you find him weird? Yes. Man, what a burn. If I were his lawyer, I would say, Martin, there's no way we can call you to this stand. No way. Like, this is an instant lose, there's no way we can call you to the stand. No way.

Like, this is an instant lose, if anyone has to look at you. Martin, don't even come. Like, stay in prison, I'll deal with this. It's gonna be worse of your year. Just zoom in, bad connection. Please just zoom in, bad connection. Throughout the case, Martin, as you might expect,

he continues writing his mouth online. He tweets about the prosecutors, things like, hard to accept that these imbeciles represent the people in our government. He also posts on Facebook, this was a bogus case from day one. Heard that defense before. But he did not go on the stand. Now lots of other people testify, though, and it does not go well for Martin. No, it does not.

MSMB investors tell the jury about all the different ways that Martin lied to them. They say he lied about how big his hedge fund was, how much money it was making, and how well it was doing. He said it was an average hedge fund, but it was, when he pulled it out, it was below average. And he wanted me to tweet about it and laugh about it a lot. Also, like, being in a business meeting with Shkreli and being like, everything this guy says is bullshit.

He's so smug. Like, how could you possibly trust him to do anything? Mm-hmm. Evidence in the case also includes emails in which Martin berates a lawyer about his retrofin scheme and testimony from one of Martin's former business partners who says that Martin threatened his wife. If Martin squarely threatened my wife, I would run him over with a truck.

All I need is an excuse. This guy. You are a fun-sized snickers. My wife would devour you. My wife would crush this guy bone to bone to bone. Literally. But if you're a member on the jury, you can't be feeling good about Martin Shkreli at this point.

No. So, you may not be surprised to hear that he is in fact found guilty. And when he's facing his sentencing, Martin's cocky persona finally crumbles completely. He breaks down and cries while reading a statement pleading for the judge to show him some leniency. Let's take a look at the courtroom sketch of that moment. Oh my God. See, this is what he wants, man. He wanted us to see this. We're playing into his trap, but I don't even care. Is he holding a tissue?

Holding a tissue. Wow. Sobbing. I like that they did like, this is like basically drawn in like watercolor. It's very abstract. Yeah. Yeah. Courtroom sketch artists have become quite artistic. Yeah.

It's kind of like the most quickly advancing medium. Yeah. So if you're the judge, what would you feel? And how would you react to his breakdown in court? I mean, if you're trying to get leniency now, like you basically dug your own grave for your entire life. Like you've been a little dickling for this entire process to be like, please, please, please, please don't put me in.

It's like you're so unlikable. It was hard to find a jury. Like you have to go away. I've never done this in my life, but I would point at him and I would laugh as hard as I possibly could. Which is not a good show of decorum, but that's why I'm not a judge. Yeah. Yes.

Well, this actual judge is also not moved. Martin is sentenced to seven years in prison and has to pay the government $7.36 million. Yeah. The judge also says that if Martin can't pay up, it's okay for the government to take his assets in order to cover the money. And you know what we want. You know what we're getting. That Wu-Tang album.

That's right. Well, once he's behind bars, Martin lands in more hot water and in solitary confinement. He uses a smuggled cell phone to keep running one of his businesses and also keeps posting on social media. I hate to give this to him, but he is an all time poster. Yeah. To post from prison is awesome, actually. He's like still nagging people like you're a fucking loser. It's the first McCrudgy respect I'm willing to throw up, but that's pretty funny.

You gotta respect the guy, okay? Yeah, he reportedly created a new secret Twitter account where he tweeted about how most of his friends are women, bashed remote work, and said white supremacy isn't as important as you think. Three weird takes. It's also like, where are you at with that third one? White supremacy isn't as important as you think. Three weird takes. It's also like, where are you at with that third one? White supremacy isn't as important as you think. Like even white supremacists

are like, what? Like everybody is not on board. Are you on the team or not, brother? It's a little, it's a little confusing where he stands. So then in 2020, during the pandemic, Martin asks to get released so he can help research a COVID cure, a request that a probation officer describes as delusional. This request to be released is denied. When America needed him most, his request was denied. It's like when Batman goes to go get help from the Riddler. It's like Fauci meeting with through the glass with Screlli. It's like, Nick, you're the only one who could solve this.

But if there's one thing we know about Martin, it's that one spectacular failure is never enough to stop him. In 2021, he asks to be released early again. This time, he says that he's at higher risk of getting COVID because he has mental health issues that make his immune system weaker. Listen, Martin, we all had mental health issues during COVID, so... He's like, I'm more likely to get COVID

because I'm really insufferable. LAUGHS Yeah. Well, a judge, once again, basically tells Martin to get the fuck out of here. No. I'd be like, give him COVID. Everybody line up and spit on him. Just spit on Martin.

With his second attempt to get an early release denied, that's it for Martin. He's stuck in prison, no more helicopter rides, no more expensive wine, and no more posting on social media. So instead of being thought of as a financial genius, the brilliant head of a pharma company, he's a jailbird and still one of the most hated men in America. So let's do a little, where are they now? Well, Martin was released from prison in 2022. He's banned for life from working in the pharmaceutical industry and from working as an officer or director of any publicly traded company. So

naturally he started his own sub stack. Oh man. What could he possibly have to say? I don't even know. It's just like slurs. It's just every slur. Just in a row. And in order to pay off his debts, he did wind up having to sell that Wu-Tang Clan album to a collective of NFD investors. So Martin went down, but Wu-Tang is forever. So here on The Big Flop, we like to be positive people and kind of end on a high. So are there any silver linings that you can think of that came about from Martin Shkreli? Justice does feel that it was served slightly.

It's like this guy was the biggest dick ever and he did go to prison for seven years and kind of like weep openly. So I like that. I think it's like a good reminder to be like, if you're the most hated in America and you're like basically betting everybody, like nothing's gonna happen to me, I suck for real. And then it was like, okay, he like whapped openly, he was in prison for seven years.

So like, that's a huge plus for me. I like that he got out just in time for people to start killing healthcare gougers. I think that's pretty, I think that's awesome. If I'm Screlly, I am terrified. I'm like, holy shit. I'm clutching my pearls for sure. Yeah, I mean, I think we can stretch it out and say that he did inadvertently help raise awareness

about pharmaceutical company greed and outrageous prescription drug prices. He also raised awareness about whatever condition he has that makes him unable to stop posting on social media no matter how much people yell at him. And more at risk of COVID. And more risk of COVID. So now that you both know about Martin Shkreli, the Pharma Bro,

with the oh-so-punchable face who went from millionaire CEO to prison, would you consider this a baby flop, a big flop, or a mega flop? I feel like this is a mega flop. I feel like he sort of bet everybody he was like, nothing's going to happen at all. It's going to be so fine. Like I suck. And then he fell in his face completely. Yeah. Mega flop. I can't think of a way that things could have gone worse for him. Especially now that he had knowing that he has a sub stack that like no one reads. That's awesome.

Yeah, that rocks. Well, thanks so much to our pharmacist recommended guests, Kyle Prew and Miles Bonsignore for joining us here on The Big Flop. And of course, thanks to all of you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, please leave us a rating and review. We'll be back next week to talk about some folks who helicopter parented too close to the sun, and the college counselor who helped them buy their kids into prestigious universities.

It's William Singer and the Varsity Blues scandal. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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