The Big Flop - The Star Wars Holiday Special that Luke Skywalker Hates ft. Adam Pally and Betsy Sodaro | 15

Episode Date: December 25, 2023

Back in 1978, George Lucas and CBS created a Star Wars holiday special so staggeringly bad, Lucas has publicly stated he wants it destroyed. The variety show featured Carrie Fisher singing, Wookiee porn, and many, many things that should never be associated with Star Wars. Budget restrictions, Harrison Ford's refusal to sing or dance, and some seriously questionable choices made for a production so chaotic, it's a miracle this thing ever made it to air.Comedians and Star Wars aficionados Adam Pally (The Mindy Project, Happy Endings) and Betsy Sodaro (Ghosts, Superstore) join Misha to navigate the spacey misadventure of the Star Wars Holiday Special.Follow The Big Flop on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to The Big Flop early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery app or on Apple PodcastsSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to The Big Flop early and ad-free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. A group of exhausted actors are sweating their makeup off under hot stage lights in a CBS studio in 1978. The poor souls are wearing elaborate alien costumes with gigantic bulbous heads, long green snouts, and warm, stuffy robes. One is more or less a werewolf. They're portraying never-before-seen aliens from Star Wars. Maybe you've heard of it? These bedraggled aliens have gathered on the iconic set of Mos Eisley Cantina,

the seedy bar on Tatooine where Han Solo may or may not have shot first. But Han Solo, aka Harrison Ford, is not here. Neither is Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker, nor Carrie Fisher as Princess Leia. Instead, we see Bea Arthur, the star of Maud, a sitcom about a middle-aged feminist divorcee, and future star of the Golden Girls. Not exactly Star Wars adjacent. Bea Arthur glides across the set, singing a dismal song about closing her precious cantina. It makes no sense in the context of Star Wars, but then again, nothing in CBS's disastrous Star Wars Holiday Special does. Just then, an actor in a stuffy alien suit passes out under the oppressive lights.

They're removed, and the remaining aliens squeeze in closer. Then another collapses. And another. So many characters pass out that Bea hardly has any aliens left to serenade. Now she must share the screen with one that looks suspiciously like a vagina. This is the story of the Star Wars Holiday Special, a variety show that the Force was definitely not with. I mean, if we had thought that 40 years later we'd be talking about it,

we would have paid closer attention. I did it when I read it. I said, this is awful. Why are we doing this? I said, I'm not doing this. You know, I really don't remember except that song. I do. We celebrate our day of peace.

This is a YouTube moment, isn't it? We are on a sinking ship. From Wondery and At Will Media, this is The Big Flop, where we chronicle the greatest flubs, fails, and blunders of all time. I'm your host, Misha Brown, social media superstar and stunning in any galaxy, at Don't Cross a Gay Man. And today, we're talking about the universally panned 1978 Star Wars Holiday Special. biggest celebrities. And they don't get much bigger than the man who made badminton sexy. Okay, maybe that's a stretch, but if I say pop star and shuttlecocks, you know who I'm talking about. No? Short shorts? Free cocktails? Careless whispers? Okay, last one. It's not Andrew Ridgely.

Yep, that's right. It's stone cold icon George Michael. From teen pop sensation to one of the biggest solo artists on the planet, join us for our new series, George Michael's Fight for Freedom. From the outside, it looks like he has it all, but behind the trademark dark sunglasses is a man in turmoil. George is trapped in a lie of his own making, with a secret he feels would ruin him if the truth ever came out. Follow Terribly Famous wherever you listen to your podcasts, or listen early and ad-free on Wondery Plus on Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app. On our show today, we have a comedian whose voice you will recognize on everything from Bob's Burgers

to Puss in Boots, The Last Wish, Betsy Sedaro. Welcome, Betsy. Oh, yeah. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. Also joining us is comedian and actual stormtrooper from The Mandalorian who punched Baby Yoda, Adam Pally. Welcome, Adam. I believe the credit is actually Bike Scout. Oh, Bike Scout. All right. Just so the nerds don't come after you because... Yeah, yeah.

Canceling our show. I've made that mistake before. So, Betsy, Adam, what's your relationship to the Star Wars holiday special? Have you seen it? Do you watch it every Christmas? Is it a tradition? I've seen it in a mushroom haze. Wow.

When I was at the University of Arizona. And I remember it being like the thing that we were going to watch. We took mushrooms. And it didn't last very long because people were just kind of like, that's weird. And then you kind of like follow the next thing, you know? Good, good, good. One of my brother-in-laws, years and years ago,

got it off of eBay, like a crazy bootleg copy or whatever. And we all sat down and be like, this is going to be so much fun. And then as soon as it started, we're like, oh, no. All right, let's get into our story. A long time ago, in 1977, in a media landscape far, far away,

when Hollywood still took risks on new stories, a young writer-director named George Lucas hits it big. His movie, Star Wars, is huge. Audiences have never seen anything like this before. Do you have any ideas? Like why do we think Star Wars was such a big hit at the time? What's going on in the country in 77? You have like the end of the Vietnam War.

And you have protests all over the country. And I think that whenever America is in turmoil with itself, there tends to be like a rush of sci-fi. Yeah. And I think that the late 70s were probably, you know, cyclically that time, I guess. That was good, dude. Wasn't it?

I just blacked out. I just blacked out. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. What did I say? You just gave a beautiful TED Talk, man. I just learneded out. I just blacked out. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. What did I say? You just gave a beautiful TED Talk, man. I just learned so much. Yeah.

I feel like Star Wars has a little something for everyone. It's this grand space opera, and George Lucas was inspired by everything from classic Westerns to Kurosawa films. Yes. Plus, you've got truly revolutionary special effects and obviously that unforgettable John Williams score. Oh, yeah. And the edits. The wipes. The wipes. The wipes. Those wipes. Revolutionary.

Those wipes. Revolutionary. They were. You'd be like, all of a sudden, the screen would be like, you'd like follow it with your head. You'd be like, where are they going? And it worked because the movie grossed over $300 million, which was unheard of in 1977. Wow. I mean, it surpassed Jaws as the biggest box office hit of all time. Basically, everyone in the U.S. puts on their flared jeans and corduroy jackets and goes to see this movie.

jeans, and corduroy jackets and goes to see this movie. One San Francisco kid named Daniel Henning gained some fame for seeing the movie over a hundred times in theaters. Wow. I mean, this whole thing, it defines a generation and then like three more generations with subsequent sequels, prequels, toys, games, Halloween costumes, baby yodas.

Baby yodas. Did either of you have any Star Wars merchandise that you loved growing up? I had friends who had, you know, all the boxes filled and like, them being like, you cannot take it out of the case. And me just being like,

well, why not? It's a toy. Don't you want to play with it? And they're like, it's going to be worth so much money. I think some of them still have, like, they're still at their parents' house, like, boxes on boxes. I have so many friends like that, too.

And I feel like, just like you, I would be like, let's play with it. But I wonder if now those kids, you know, own yachts, and they're like, you idiot. You know what I mean? Like, you were playing with the toys when I was making money with the toys. But you know they're not having fun on their yacht. They're too scared to do anything with it. No, everything's covered in plastic.

Yeah, yeah. It never leaves the dock. They're like, it's going to be worth much more someday. So much more someday as long as we do not put it in the ocean. Keep it away from the water. So everything is amazing for George Lucas, and then comes 1978. He embarks on a Star Wars sequel, The Empire Strikes Back, which will take another two years to complete.

And even though audiences love Star Wars, Lucas is worried that the public might lose interest and move on to something else. So he wants to keep the franchise top of mind, and he decides a great way to do that is to get his characters on TV as much as possible, or even better, a made-for-TV movie. So Lucas cooks up an idea for a one-off special, So, Lucas cooks up an idea for a one-off special. And it's centered around everyone's favorite Wookiee, Chewbacca. Trying to return to his home planet, Kashyyyk.

And yes, that is spelled with three Y's in a row. Chewie is headed there to visit his family for a gift-giving holiday called Life Day. Life Day. Life Day. Did you know that Chewbacca is actually his nickname, that his real name is Chulius? No. No. So convincing.

I was ready to like start telling everybody that today. I just learned Chewbacca's real name is Chulius, man. Well, just like Chulius, to be clear, Life Day is something that's completely made up. It does not come up previously in the Star Wars universe. Oh, yeah. But by the way, I would like to wish everybody a happy Life Day because we're recording this podcast on November 17th. And according to Disney, today is Life Day. No way.

Really? Yeah. Oh, my God. In the Star Wars galaxy, they have the regular months. Today is Life Day. No way. Really? Yeah. Oh, my God. In the Star Wars galaxy, they have the regular months. So Chewbacca would be like, April Fool's. Wouldn't that then mean that the months of the year are the Star Wars months? Yeah. They go by the Roman calendar or whatever.

Yeah. They go by the Roman calendar or whatever. Which means that it does take place in the same world as we are now. Oh my God. What? Oh my God. They should stop by Earth, one of these movies. Well, from that, Lucas and CBS enter into talks on the Life Day holiday special. And since Star Wars is the hottest thing at the moment, CBS can't wait to buy it.

But Lucas is just selling the idea. He is too busy to helm the special because his head's down on The Empire Strikes Back. And even if he did have the time, Lucas famously hates directing. He can't stand hoping for one result and getting another, so he's probably super happy to get his check and hightail it at the speed of light out of there. But without Lucas to supervise, things start to go wonky. The CBS execs don't want to make a movie. They want a variety show. It's a simple and cheap format that was very popular at the time. Networks were competing every holiday season with specials led by like Bob Hope, Dean Martin, John Denver, just to name a few. So CBS decides they can string some loose plot points together, add some cameos and musical acts, throw in some sketches, call it a day.

God. But what kind of acts should Star Wars variety shows feature, you know? Well, I think you need a host, like right off the bat. Definitely a host. It's like, if we're going to do that, we need like Jabba in a tuxedo. Fun. That's great. In a tuxedo. That's great. In a tuxedo.

With like a, you know, like a, cause it's, it's just like little tuxedo. It's almost looks like. And, and, you know, I feel like we have to come back and he's like, and then like, there's a person translating like, welcome back to the, you know. To Jabba's Christmas where he makes all of his prisoners do acts and stuff. Yeah, exactly. Yes. That would rule.

And like you can have a little storyline, but it's truly the classic Christmas one of like, is that one little character who like sits right next to him going to make it for the show? Yeah, yeah. You know, like he had to go visit his family. Is he going to be back in time for the final number? Because he's got to sing Hallelujah. had to go visit his family. Is he going to be back in time for the final number? And then of course- Because he's got to sing Hallelujah. It was like Jabba in a spotlight. I heard there was a secret road.

The actual stars of Star Wars were sensing that this was going to be a horrible experience and they wanted nothing to do with it. So Harrison Ford has said, I don't sing, I don't dance, don't ask me. He's so cool. Carrie Fisher agreed to it, but wants her own song in the show, which, fair enough.

Yep, yep. And Mark Hamill gets the script and refuses. That would not happen today. Yeah, it would not happen. But he did have another valid reason to pass in the special. He was involved in a terrible car collision in January of 77, only five

months before Star Wars premiered in theaters. And Hamill needed tons of reconstructive surgery. So very likely didn't have the bandwidth for a TV disaster. They had to put a robot hand on him, right? Oh, whoa, it just worked out that way. I thought they wrote it backwards.

Well, Mark has a robot hand now. I guess we'll make that guy his dad and have him cut it off. Yeah. George is like, I hate hoping for one thing and getting another. I mean, but Hamill does do it. Lucas, he calls Hamill personally and begs him to do the special for the sake of merch opportunities. So that would happen today. Smart man.

Yeah. Reportedly, Hamill also was supposed to have a song, but he vetoed that. Nice. I bet he loves actors flexing their Hollywood power. I really do. I think it's so cool. Because I have never done that once. Well, do it every once.

You know what? I'll pay you to make me look like an asshole. Please. I know. I have never once. Harrison Ford said, I don't sing, don't dance. I would have been like, I don't sing, I don't dance, but I'm sure I could figure it out. Yes.

Yeah, I'll figure something out. Like, please let me do it. How much are we talking? Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Well, behind the scenes, there was tremendous pressure to capitalize on the success of this mega hit to rival all mega hits. So CBS hires eight producers and five writers. And the story they land on is Chewbacca wants to celebrate Life Day with his family,

but he's on the run from the authorities. So his family needs help to distract the bad guys. And those distractions are where CBS can shoehorn in a bunch of variety show acts. You know, classic Star Wars. Whoa. So, filming begins in August of 1978. The first director of the special, David Okumba, was chosen specifically because he was not a TV guy.

As a young film director with some acclaim, he was going to elevate the special. According to one of George Lucas' people, he was, quote, a guy we could trust. But as a film director, he wasn't used to the TV sitcom style multicam setup. Oh my God. And he also had disagreements with a couple of executive producers. So according to a new documentary, A Disturbance in the Force, Okumba was allegedly fired because he may have spent almost the entire show budget of $1 million in 72 hours. Wait, that's wild! Okumba, he shot three scenes of the special, including the cantina

scene with Bea, which took a full 24 hours to film, 6 a.m. to 6 a.m. And the scene was so brutal to film, they literally needed nurses on set to feed oxygen to the actors in the alien costumes. Oh, my God. Hollywood sucked back then. Oh, man. That didn't happen in the movie. How is that happening in a bar scene for a TV special?

Well, because it's like hot. They don't know how to accommodate all the aliens at once. And then you got Bea Arthur who's like, can we run it back again? I gotta do it again. Yeah, I gotta do it again. It's not about the words. It's about the feeling. So, Akumba is replaced

by a new director in September who patches together the rest of the production on the shoestring budget that was remaining. But he can't stay through post, so editing falls to another pair of producers with no prior experience. What? Despite the sputtering production, CBS pushes ahead with the Star Wars special. And November, when it's supposed to air, is only three months away. Oh, man. Okay, so there were a lot of red flags going into production, but that Star Wars merch wasn't going to sell itself.

And as we like to say, the show must go on. And I have to describe this show, so let's hit the highlights. Yes. So picture this. It's 1978. You're a kid and it's a few days before Thanksgiving. You love Star Wars and you heard there's going to be a new Star Wars special. And you're not alone. 13 million people will tune in to watch the Star Wars holiday special, and here's what you see. Han Solo and his big hairy companion Chewbacca are flying through space, evading the evil galactic empire. Chewie is anxious. Han reassures him, that's the spirit. You'll be celebrating life day before you know it. And they zoom away at the speed of light and the iconic Star Wars theme plays.

And then we get the credits. They're announcing the return of our favorite space heroes. Bum, bum, ba-ba-bum, bum, bum. Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker. Harrison Ford as Han Solo. Carrie Fisher as Princess Leia. So hearing that these three are returning, how excited are we? Yeah.

Pumped. It's too bad we are barely going to see these people in this special. Yeah, man. Here are the real stars of the show. Introducing Chewbacca's family. His wife, Mala. His father, Itchy. Itchy.

His son, Lchy. Itchy. His son, Lumpy. Lumpy. So how are we feeling now? Oh, man. It took nine writers for this? For Itchy, Itchy, and Lumpy? And Lumpy? Itchy and Lumpy. Like the seven dwarves.

That's exactly what I thought when I first heard. And why is his wife named like Nancy? That's exactly what I thought when I first heard. And why is his wife named like Nancy? So yes, Mala, Itchy, and Lumpy are the stars of this movie. And so we see Chewbacca's family on the Wookiee home planet waiting for Chewbacca to arrive in their quaint little lofted tree house. It's also so bold of them to be like, let's pick characters who don't speak. That leads me to my next point. Betsy, could you give us your best Wookiee impression?

That doesn't, that's like. What? Like a whale call. Like, you know, when they're like, when there's some character that's like, we need the, the whales must take us. I'll get them. That sounds like Chewbacca. No, Chewbacca has like a.

Well, these ones didn't have that. So these Wookiee sounds, I think this is maybe the most shocking part of the special for me. Because for 10 minutes, the first 10 minutes, that's all they do. Because that's how they speak. So here's a little sample. And it is like 10 minutes long of just that shit. It is 10 minutes.

And I would like to point out for the listeners who couldn't see that, that there are no subtitles. It is 10 minutes of them just like making those noises. And why didn't the Wookiees just have subtitles? Because CBS execs thought that people would change the channel if they saw text on the screen. Oh. That's how much we hate foreigners. Oh my God. Especially in 77.

Yeah, America in 77 would rather look at unintelligible, amorphous mountain creatures than even think that they could be from another country. creatures than even think that they could be from another country. So that's how it starts, but the story keeps being interrupted by weird sketches and interludes. Chewy's wife tries to take her mind off of worrying about her husband's peril by preparing a traditional life day feast, including something called Bantha Surprise. Yum. She tunes into a cooking program hosted by an alien called Gormanda, played by a comedian, Harvey Korman. And Harvey Korman was a regular on CBS's Carol Burnett show and loved doing sketches in drag. Yes. It's the 70s. Men in Gowns is super funny. So let's watch a clip of his performance as a multi-armed Julia Child-esque alien. Step two, while we're stirring, we also whip.

So it's stir, whip, stir, whip, whip, whip, stir. Stir, whip, stir, whip, whip, whip, stir. Let's try it again together at an increased tempo because precision is very important in this recipe and we do want to have a fine consistency, don't we? So, and I'm... Betsy, can you describe what we just saw? Chewy's wife is watching a cooking show and we see, like, is that a robot cook?

Is it blackface? Is it robot face? I'm not really sure. Right? And they're like telling them how to, it's yeah, Julia Child but as like a robot or an alien. Telling them how to stir.

That's kind of it. But you know, it does remind me of like watching my grandmother like watch cooking shows and then like use that as like to go in the kitchen and like to actually do it. Yeah. Rather than like, you know, pre-internet, really. Right. So that's cool.

So one of the specials writers is Bruce Valanche. Do you know of him? Yes. Of course. Yes. Of course. Yes. Legendary comedian, queer icon, and nerdy king.

So Valanche is always happy to spill the tea, and he admits he might have pitched the character while stoned. Might have. None of us would know anything about writing under the influence. So once you have a character, you need the look. And somehow the special's costumes were designed by Bob Mackie. Like the Bob Mackie. What?

For people that don't know, he's designed gowns for Madonna, Sharon Stone, Marilyn Monroe, Cher, Beyonce. I could go on, and I will. Farrah Fawcett, Pink, Ann-Margret, Tina freaking Turner. So back to the plot, and we're using heavy air quotes here. Grandpa Itchy gets his life day gift, a kind of VR headset programmed with what I can only describe as 70s hypnospace porn. This was weird. Yeah, it's really weird. It features singer Diane Carroll in a Cher outfit,

because in fact it was supposed to be Cher, but she passed on the project last minute. And according to the original treatment, the device was supposed to help Itchy discover that Chewbacca was in trouble via mind connection. What ends up on screen, though, is more like sexy affirmations from Diane. Here's a little sample. Oh, yes. I can feel my creation.

I'm getting your message. Are you getting mine? Feel my creation. I'm getting your message. Are you getting mine? Oh, oh, we are excited, aren't we? That is so weird. It's so weird. It's like pretty early on in the special. I always wonder how that gets through.

Like no one saw the sexual connotation of it or were really scared to mention it to their boss. How did that happen? Right? How are they like, this is going to be great for kids to watch. No one was like, oh, it looks like Chewbacca's grandpa is whacking off on a couch.

Yeah. No one said that? I'm sure some people said that. Just too many people said yes. I can't imagine someone looking at that and being like, I don't see it. Yeah, I don't see how this is sexual at all. Well, at this point,

the guards are still at the Wookiee home and the writers needed to fill two hours of screen time. That is crazy. It's like a Super Bowl. A live broadcast of the desert planet Tatooine starts to play on the Wookie's TV. And here begins a 13 minute sequence featuring Bea Arthur, aka Maude and future Golden Girl, singing to some eclectic aliens. After lots of stalling, finally, Chewbacca and Han Solo show up to save the family from the mean intruding officers. The special ends with a brief scene of all the stars reuniting. Luke is there, Han is there, Princess Leia is there. And just

when you thought we've heard all the possible shoehorned musical numbers. Remember Carrie Fisher's stipulation for being in the special. So let's listen to her ballad about Life Day. Yes. We celebrate a day of peace, a day of harmony, a day of joy we all can share. Together joyously. The end. Wow. Yay.

What the force is going on? Love songs where they have to change the pronunciation of words to fit. Like, I've never heard anyone say harmony. Never. Never. Never. I'm going to start. On November 17th, 1978, the Star Wars special airs on US TV

one time and never again. Wow. 13 million people tuned in to watch the Star Wars Holiday Special. 13 million. But as viewers watched the fiasco unfold, many turned it off about an hour in. Uh-huh. The special didn't even make it into the top 10 Nielsen-rated shows for the evening. It lost out to The Love Boat.

and Nielsen-rated shows for the evening. It lost out to The Love Boat. Once the special aired and the disaster was out in the open, everyone scrambled to do damage control. Kenner, a company that had originally planned a lineup of action figures based on Chewie's family, quickly canceled. God, nobody wants Itchy, like, jerking off in that machine, man. Most Star Wars fans and reviewers reacted negatively. So Betsy, can you read the following review from John Bafis, an entertainment reporter?

This is from a 1999 look back at the special. The Star Wars holiday special does what Darth Vader never could. It makes Luke, Han, and Chewie look like a bunch of chumps. Wow! Roasted! Roasted! But how did George Lucas feel about the whole thing? Yeah.

To find out, let's play a game. There is a quote supposedly obtained at a Star Wars convention where George Lucas commented on the special. So here are the rules. I'll give you the quote with two blanks in it, and then you have to pick from a couple options to determine what goes there. Nice. So here's the quote. If I had the time and blank, I would track down every copy of that show and blank. So here are your options. You each get to pick a pair. So the first one is receipts and sign it.

So if I had the time and receipts, I would track down every copy of that show and sign it. Two, money and buyback. So if I had the time and money, I would track down every copy of that show and buy it back. Or three, a sledgehammer and smash it. So if I had the time and a sledgehammer, I would track down every copy of that show and smash it. It's got to be three. It's got to be three. Ding, ding, ding. I do feel like George Lucas has plenty of time and he could buy a sledgehammer.

Yeah. I think he has the resources. Yeah, but now it's out there, right? Like now, someone uploaded that, right? Yeah. Oh, it's millions of views on YouTube. Yeah, okay. So, yeah, he hated it. George Lucas distanced himself in every way he could from the special. He even made sure to pull

any mention of his name so he's not credited anywhere. Wow. There were no official releases of the two-hour variety show, which for many years was only watchable via bootleg copies on eBay. It's been the stuff of Star Wars legend ever since. Weird Al has a scene of himself buying a copy in a back alley in his music video White and Nerdy. Good old Weird Al. That's good.

Yeah, like we said, these days it's not too hard to find online if you feel like torturing yourself for two hours. It was like really sad for a holiday special. Like it started off so sad. Whereas like we need, hey, we need raisins dancing to like Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer, right? California Raisins Christmas special.

Great. Also, there wasn't a ton. I mean, Life Day is like, is it a Christmas special? Is it a holiday special? Or we now,

we are now making up a new thing called Life. Is it for your birthday? Like, what are we doing? The late Carrie Fisher said she liked to play the special at parties, mainly at the end of the night when she wanted people to leave. That rules. So the special is viewed as an epic TV fail and a money grab. It's a classic cautionary tale common to the entertainment industry. Rush

production, creative differences, and attempting to expand a beloved franchise without proper planning can lead to disaster. But something we always like to do here on The Big Flop, so we're not just constantly punching down at these people, is to ask, are there any silver linings that you can think of for this holiday special? Yeah, I mean, I think that just the fact that we're doing this now is like better than they could have ever, like right after those people involved made it, it was probably so dark in their minds about like, God, I just made something so horrible.

No one will ever see it. I'm sure they all went on to do other things, but it's like definitely a dark place. And then I would say that whatever we're doing right now is so far and away better than what they could

have imagined would have happened for that special that I think this is actually the silver lining. That's so good, Adam! Yeah! You're good at this!

Shit! What happened? I just, I blacked out. I blacked out. What happened? It was really beautiful. I blacked out. What happened? It was really beautiful. So beautiful. Because humans really like to watch kind of disasters.

Like when you start hearing about it, like do you know anything about this big Star Wars holiday special that sucked? Everybody's like, no, but I want to see it. I have to see it. I have to see it. And now for it to be online and getting, you know, millions of views and stuff and all the actors and stuff involved, it seemed very much like they were able to be like, huh,

wasn't that shitty? Well, moving on. Because it was like, nope, everybody did fine afterward. You know, like, everybody's doing fine. Except for Itchy. Oh, It know, like. Yeah, exactly. Everybody's doing fine. Except for Itchy. Oh, Itchy, man. Poor Itchy.

Poor Itchy. Yeah, I mean, like, that was my thought, too. Like, the holiday special, I mean, it endured as a cult classic, basically, what we're talking about. And it's actually become, like, cherished within the franchise's lore amongst the dedicated fan base. You know, they live for that so bad, it's good-ness of it all. the dedicated fan base. You know, they live for that so bad it's good-ness of it all. And then finally,

George Lucas' goal was for this to keep people's attention until the Star Wars sequel came out. And people did come back to the theaters in 1980. Did the holidays special contribute? Probably not, but who's to say, right? So the Star Wars brand

has proven to be nothing if not resilient. As Obi-Wan Kenobi tells Darth Vader, if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine. So it's hard not to see the parallel there. Yeah. That holiday special tried to just destroy Star Wars, but nope. Yeah.

Nope. So now that you both know about the Star Wars holiday special, would you consider this a baby flop, a big flop, or a mega flop? I would consider it a mega flop because, like, I don't think anything is a mega flop nowadays because there's just, like, so much stuff coming. Like, you can't, if something goes bad, it's like, all right, well, something's literally coming out the next hour. So there's not much time to dwell on it. But this was Star Wars at the time doing something wrong. And it really kind of, in a lot of ways, still sticks with the franchise, I feel like.

Because as much as people love Star Wars, they're like, yeah, but it's also, don't forget, it's cheesy. Right. And I feel like that's part of its allure. And the special is pretty damning in that way so i say mega yeah i think i think mega just with what it's like the money and like it just it feels like such a disaster yeah like a very big disaster yeah kind of like we can't mess

this up and it's like we messed it up. We did everything wrong. It would be like if in the movie Armageddon, they sent the team to like drill on the wrong asteroid. Oh my God, yeah. Well, thank you so much to our guests, Betsy Sodaro and Adam Pally for joining us here on The Big Flop. And thanks to you for listening. We'll be back next episode to look at McDonald's attempt at making a sophisticated burger for adults.

The Arch Deluxe. Bye. Goodbye. Bye. Goodbye. Bye. If you like The Big Flop, you can listen early and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music.

Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. The Big Flop is a production of Wondery and At Will Media, hosted by me, Misha Brown. Produced by Sequoia Thomas, Harry Huggins, and Drew Beebe, with support from Tina Turner. Written by Anna Rubinova. Engineered by Andrew Holtzberger. Our managing producer is Molly Getman.

Our executive producers are Kate Walsh and Will Malnati for At Will Media. Legal support by Carolyn Levin of Miller, Korzenik, Summers, and Raymond. Producers for Wondery are Matt Beagle and Grant Rudder. Senior producer is Lizzie Bassett. Senior story editor is Phyllis Fletcher. Managing producer is Ricky Wiebe. Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Frizzin' Sing. Our theme song is Sinking Ship by Cake. Music Supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Frizzin' Sing.

Our theme song is Sinking Ship by Cake. And executive producers are Morgan Jones and Marshall Louis for Wondery. We are on a sinking ship.