The Big Picture - 2024 Oscar Nominations: Snubs, Surprises, and WTFs

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

Sean and Amanda gather after the announcement of the 2024 Oscar nominations to discuss an ‘Oppenheimer’ runaway train, some disappointing and somewhat surprising snubs for Margot Robbie and ‘Barbie,’ and how the nominations circuit is much more of a known quantity than it used to be. Plus: waning momentum for ‘The Holdovers,’ growing momentum for ‘Anatomy of a Fall’ and ‘The Zone of Interest,’ and how ‘Nyad’ snuck into several big categories. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Visit Superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the 2024 Oscar nominations. Amanda, we're here to discuss, my garage the latest Academy Award nominations. How are you feeling on this fine morning? Well, it's 7.38. We aimed for 7.

I arrived at 7.20, though I want to say that that was a little bit to accommodate everyone's schedules and we're sending love and solidarity to Bobby and hope that he gets heat in his apartment back. Now at 738, we have overcome technical difficulties. And I feel the same as I felt at like 605 when I texted you, which is like fine. This is this is fine. This feels like a compromise. OK. And in the grand tradition of compromisesises it's like unsatisfying to pretty

much everyone except christopher nolan and justine trier and i guess europeans um which is historically how compromises work it's like it's not bad right and for the most part we were right but i wouldn't say that any of the surprises are like, well, there are one or two nice surprises, but there's not like a lot of flair. Most of the surprises are, okay, well, they did that thing that we thought they were going to do. Yeah, there's a tremendous amount of precursors now. It's gotten easier and easier to predict Oscar nominations and Oscar wins over the last 10 years. All kinds of mathematical models, tons of critics awards and guild awards now that we can look at and analyze. But it does feel like in the last four or five years, there have been, I would say,

somewhere between five and seven genuinely surprising surprises on Oscar nominations morning. This year, I guess there were a handful, but it seemed like fewer than usual. The ones that we got, and we'll talk about the surprises and the snubs and the what the fucks in this conversation today, but nothing jaw-droppingly, overwhelmingly stunning. Even the things that I think some of us on this pod may describe as like a crime against art.

I'm not saying that. I'm not coming in. Okay. I'm not coming in super hot. I'm not coming in super hot. I'm coming in a little bit unimpressed. You know, it's sort of like when I say compromise, it's not like we all went to therapy with like a really good therapist or even just like on our own with. Who's we all? This is me and you and Bobby and the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences motion picture arts and sciences exactly okay and and like talked it out okay and it like mostly makes

sense but it's like you know what are you gonna do it's not a crime i'm just like this there's there's no flair there's no excitement no flair well i think if you're one of the makers of oppenheimer there's a significant amount of flair this morning. Oppenheimer is the leading nomination getter with 13 nominations this year, one shy of the all-time record, which is currently owned by All About Eve, La La Land, and Titanic. This is a hugely... You think Chris is pissed about that? You think he wanted the record? Christopher Nolan, the filmmaker behind Oppenheimer? Do I think he's pissed that he doesn't have 14? I think he would have liked it. I think, you know, the opportunity was dashed when Oppenheimer didn't make the shortlist

for visual effects, which I find actually to be very strange if you know anything about how the movie was made because there are a ton of visual effects, but most of them

are practical effects. And so for the, I guess that group to overlook that is quite strange. That would have been the way for it to get 14. Didn't get that.

I would imagine Christopher Nolan is quite satisfied because in addition to best picture, best director, best adapted screenplay, best actor, best supporting actress. I mean, it's really on down the line.

Best supporting actor, of course, like on down the line, much like we said after the Golden Globes, that this was, this is, was going to be a show of strength for Oppenheimer. It feels like Oppenheimer's Oscar to lose.

You know, I think there are actually quite a few heartening nominations. We can look back on years past, even as recently as like three, four, five years ago at films that got more than two or three nominations and it's kind of appalling. This year, there are a lot of really good movies that have five, six nominations under their belt.

So I think there's like a lot of really good movies that have five, six nominations under their belt. So I think there's a couple of critical misses that people were concerned about but didn't actually think would come to pass. I guess we should just talk about those. Chief among them, I think, specifically are Greta Gerwig, who did not make Best Director, which you suggested was a possibility when we did predictions. And I thought more surprising to me was Marco Robbie missing in Best Actress for Barbie. So the world was dying to know your reaction to this news. Well, I floated it in our prediction thing. I was like, this is a real possibility.

And you had floated it. I looked it up. It was January 12th, a Friday in the afternoon. And you texted me and Bobby saying that many people suspected that Greta Gerwig and Alexander Payne, who were nominated at the DGAs, would be out in favor of Justin Trier and Jonathan Glazer. That did, in fact, happen. So this was a possibility.

I'll just say I never personally thought that both of them would be out. I thought just one of the two. And in fact, they both were out. Right. So we knew it was going to happen. And then're not we knew it was a possibility and then on the the margot robbie front i mean we've just known forever that the academy does not understand comedic performances and like i think that's honestly the real shame margot robbie is one of the great movie stars and actors of her generation and is also like probably a billionaire at this

point like i don't i don't know the numbers i don't know the cut you know but like she's doing very well i'm i'm hoping it's we're getting towards what is that nine figures um definitely for her when she's one of the she is the chief architect of the barbie thing exactly and and barbie was nominated in best picture and she is listed for that. So, you know, she'll be fine. But it just is kind of, it's, again, it's like a boring decision, you know? And she, I suppose you could say, if you wanted to be ungenerous, that her spot was taken by Annette Bening in Nyad, who swam a lot lot and swimming's really hard. So Annette Bening is great. And I know that she really wants an Oscar. And like, this is sort of like the Glenn Close of this year. I love Annette Bening, you know, like I just noticed that you have the American president on Blu-ray. I'm sitting right next to it in your garage and that's why you're my guy. Thank you. Thank you for acknowledging my collection you know this hour it's like what will we remember in 5 10 15 years is it like annette

benning like yelling at some people in mespito no it's not going to be um the annette benning nomination is a signal of a handful of nominations across here that i think are like wildly forgettable and just feel very campaign oriented very um kind of studio origin oriented uh i the barbie thing to me feels like as much a strike against comedy as commerciality and a specific kind of commerciality which just does not do well at the oscars which i have whinged about on this show for years and don't totally understand you know barbie was not my favorite movie of the year it wasn't in my top 20 favorite movies of the year but i think it's very good and it's a very impressive achievement of movie construction and execution and so it's recognized

for that i think in best picture i think whether the direction is superlative relative to the other nominees it's all debatable. You know what I mean? Like Justine Triege and Jonathan Glazer are capital A artists, right? Greta Gerwig is too, but she's obviously operating in a mode that is even different from the work she did

in Little Women or Lady Bird. I believe Jane Campion remains the only woman to be nominated more than once in Best Director in Oscar history, which is interesting. But as recently as Thursday on the show, when you and I talked, I was like, well, we have one. We have Greta Gerwig.

We have this woman. And we still do. It's fine. It's just, it's not even, it doesn't even leave a bad taste in my mouth. Because as we discussed on Thursday, when Barbie came out in the summer and it was a sensation

and everyone was like, oh my God, it's going to sweep the Osc the Oscars and I was like will it like I you know I don't know I I have talked to people and I see how these things go um Greta is another person who's gonna be fine how much money do you think she made Greta Gerwig yeah you want me to put a specific dollar amount on the amount of money she made on the film Barbie? Yeah. Like, did she have a cut of... I'm sure she participated in some fashion, yes. Okay. As the writer-director who pitched and sold the concept of the film. That being said, that aspect of moviemaking has changed a lot.

Right. Like, contractually in the last 10, 15 years. Right. So maybe not nearly as much as she would have had 20 years ago. But, you know, she's also someone who was proven to be a commercial filmmaker even before this movie. Lady Bird made like $70 million. Little Women made over $100 million. So it's possible she...

They're all doing very well financially. Right, yeah. Everybody is fine. Like, they're doing fine. But the interesting thing I was wondering about is there was this... There was a line of thought that oppenheimer significantly capitalized on the barbenheimer experience at the box office that oppenheimer a three-hour biopic you know made for large format screens very serious subject matter was able to capitalize

on the extraordinary success of barbie and the barbenheimer wave you know that sort of like social media explosion that happened. Do you think that Barbie actually benefited from an awards perspective by being a part of the Barbenheimer experience? Or is this maybe a sign that it didn't? Like, how do you feel about that in the aftermath of the nominations?

Sure. I mean, I do think that those movies are success-wise, are tied together forever, both box office and and and awards we like took them all seriously you know it's also true that like christopher nolan has been like an extremely accomplished filmmaker before and after as has greta gerwig you know people have been pointing out that all three of her features have been nominated for best picture. And that's like the first,

you know, she's the first director to ever have their first three features nominated for best picture. So that would have been true whenever they released it as well. I mean, we're like dealing with heavyweights and we were, and that is another reason that like Barbenheimer became a thing because we all had some confidence of being like,

Oh, well Christopher Nolan is making a giant movie and Greta Gerwig is making a giant movie. I think everybody made the right decisions in pairing them together, even if certain people didn't love it. Do you think Christopher Nolan has seen Barbie yet? Absolutely. You do?

Yeah, I would be very surprised if he hadn't seen the film Barbie. Do I think he's still annoyed with Warner Brothers for dating Barbie when they did? I do think he is still annoyed about that. I don't think he has much to be annoyed about this morning. If I were Greta Gerwig, I would probably actually understand this. It's very rare that filmmakers who are working in prefab IP are recognized in as many categories as some of us were banking on. If you're working in intellectual property, a movie like Black Panther can get nominated

because there feels like something kind of historic and thematic that we haven't seen before. I think Barbie is very much operating in the same way with an idea of gender in the world, femininity, feminism, expectations of women. These are big, important ideas, but they're still inside the Barbie box, literally. So I guess I'm not-

No, she steps out of it, you know? She makes a choice. Yeah, she makes a choice. As a woman doll. She gets back in the box, but then she says, no, I don't want to be in the box. And then America Ferreira

drives up her product endorsement car and parks it right in front of the Mattel building for like a beautiful car shot. And then they drive away to the land of enchantment. Let me just say, I think that things like that are held against the film. I understand it. And I'm looking like, I don't know who I would replace in best directing for, for Greta. I think Justine Triet being included is really exciting. That's a great movie. Well, for the sake of this conversation, let's just, for the listeners point out, these

are the films that are nominated for best picture. And we'll talk about director too, because there's obviously an important crossover there best picture is american fiction anatomy of a fall barbie the holdovers killers of the flower moon maestro oppenheimer past lives poor things in the zone of interest this matches perfectly with what we saw from the producers guild and our predictions last week this was one of the easiest to predict best picture races certainly since i've been doing this show. I think part of that is because seeing the oddness of the PGA noms just kind of locked everything into place.

Yeah, but that only happened after the PGA noms. All through December, we had a lot of movies on the bubble, and it was real 14, 15 movies for 10 spots, which was cool. And I am bummed about the movies that did not make it in. Even though it's funny, last night I was at dinner with my husband. He's like, okay, so what are you excited about tomorrow? And I was like, well, I'm not really excited about anything. I'm just very nervous that some things that I fear will happen will happen. And I think that I was most anxious about past lives falling out of Best Picture.

Because that just would have felt really bad for everyone. So I'm glad that it made it in. I'm bummed about All of Us Strangers, which I think never really had a chance, which is sad. There was a failure to launch with that campaign, unfortunately. Yeah. What else am I sad about? I have a few things. I mean, in Best Picture. I think in the same spirit of Barbie missing in Best Directing,

I think we're way overdue for a movie like Spider-Verse to be nominated, or The Boy and the Heron to be nominated for Best Feature Film. I think it's actually genuinely getting weird now the way that in many other ways the academy has expanded its understanding and acceptance of different kinds of movies of different kinds of filmmakers the international nature of the body which really shone through again this year um there's a real like national lampoon's european vacation thing going on with the academy right now where they're just like really excited about whatever's going on in europe um that i think is actually actually getting a little goofy yeah and maybe they've over expanded in some ways

at their own expense because they're going to alienate viewers from the show who do not know what anatomy of a fall is nevertheless that doesn't bother me. That's a wonderful movie. But I'm not weeping over the exclusion of May-December in a lot of critical categories. You know, it did get a Best Original Screenplay nomination.

It's the kind of movie that only gets an Original Screenplay nomination. You know, it's a critic's film. It's an intellectual film. It's a semiotic film. It's a movie

that is about ideas that is mocking the industry that it is essentially being voted on. So I can't say I'm stunned by that, but it would have been nice to see Charles Melton's name or Julianne Moore's name or Todd Haynes' name

or any number of people that didn't get a look today. It's interesting looking at the films that got the most nominations because I don't think that that necessarily aside from Oppenheimer communicates a lot of power

both killers of the flower moon and poor things got 11 nominations this morning I think that you're right that killers of the flower moon might be another Irishman situation I think perhaps with one example

with one exception with one yeah exception but and we've talked about it and i'm i'm in the bag for lily gladstone i don't i don't know her but i think she was wonderful i think that she's the first native american actress to ever be nominated for best actress and i she's great i i just personally hope that she wins. She might not because I think the 11 nominations for Poor Things suggests that Poor Things, you know, might show up. Yeah. And it's funny as you keep scrolling down that, you know, and you see like, obviously it was going to compete in production design and costume design and whatnot. But it's just, it's there like in every category. And that is a real Oscar friendly movie. So I would watch that

space. There was some speculation that the director of Poor Things, Yorgos Lanthimos, would miss in director, for example, by retaining Greta Gerwig and also having the two other European filmmakers who made it in. That didn't happen. It made it into adapted screenplay. Mark Ruffalo made it in, although Willem Dafoe did not, which is something that I have been sure of in my mind for weeks and weeks and weeks, despite SAG not putting Ruffalo in.

The other thing I just wanted to mention quickly is we didn't talk about the BAFTAs and the BAFTA nominations last week, because the BAFTAs have changed the way that they vote, and now I find that award show to be very strange and some people listening to our show on

Friday said like how did you why did you record this before seeing the BAFTA nominations as usual the BAFTAs don't mean anything like a movie like Saltburn is not present here there's

not serious all the strangers is not present here like the BAFTAs do not meaningfully reflect where the Academy Awards is going really at all anymore so I feel at least confident in doing that. I probably would have had poor things at roughly 11 nominations. I'm not like stunned

by that number. Whether or not it's strong, I'm not sure. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it could just be that Oppenheimer absolutely sweeps all the craft categories. Yeah, it does feel that way. I think that Holly Waddington should win for costume design. You know, the Oppenheimer hats looked cool or whatever. And there are a couple of other places where it could sneak in, but I think you're right. Yeah. Barbie could be a place where costumes are recognized potentially too. I think now we're at the place where we're like, well, how will Barbie actually be recognized?

How will it actually get some love? It will it will literally okay i'm not ready to talk about song yet i'm actually not ready i'm so upset um i was i was texting uh this morning with with some friends who may or may not have a film podcast and who may or may not be cited again when we talk about animation hi guys um and they were I'm clear, you're talking about Bill Simmons and Chris Ryan. Yeah, yeah. Hosts of the Rewatchables, yes. Chris started watching an animated show? He's seen a few.

Yeah. Blue Eye Samurai, Scavenger's Reign. And then you and Andy were both like, yeah, but we didn't like those animated shows. It's impossible to please you two. I never shared an opinion. I went to see Boy and the Heron and you and Bobby were like,

well, you can't start without Miyazaki and I was like well I guess I'll never start didn't take long for you to start shouting at me about things I like in my garage I did like those animated shows and I don't know why I've been slandered on that nevertheless I'm happy for you guys you spoke to some friends about

animation two friends in fact two friends about animation and also the nominations writ large they were positing um it's it's the it's the blank check boys they were positing that the the greta snub if you will and best director and some other things would clear the way for an adapted screen play win for greta gerwig and her partner or now husband I believe congratulations um Noah Bombach yeah yeah also they celebrated at a Billy Joel concert like those two are undefeated yeah uh as usual I don't know about living my best life it's just it's that absolutely going to next game Billy

Joel concerts getting checks off of Barbie making pavement. We fucking love to see it. I don't know if I believe that. I'm a little dubious of that. Yeah. I'm a little dubious in part because I think there's already this understanding of a kind of, at least campaigning category fraud around original. There was a big surprise to me in adapted screenplay, which was the Killers of the Flower Moon was not recognized. I don't know very many people who didn't have that.

Didn't you talk about that, though? On Thursday, you were like, there's this question of whether Jonathan Glazer will come in. How strong is Zone of Interest? Turns out, very strong. Very strong. The Zone of Interest, I want to get to that. I want to save a little bit of room for the Zone of Interest conversation. But Killers of the Flower Moon is very similar to the Zone of Interest in this way.

They're both extremely unusual adaptations they're adaptations um and i started reading the martin amos novel and i got about halfway through it and i was like wow this is just not what the film is um really at all and i don't think i'd fully realize that until i dug into it and i actually haven't finished the zone of interest maybe i will at some point but um as with all martin, it's extremely densely written. But brilliant prose. But my guy is really in the emotional subtext. I'm reading A Perfect Spy right now, the John Lecrae novel, which is like unreal. But also I've been reading it for like three weeks.

And I'm still, it's incredible. But sentence to sentence, I really have to put my thinking cap on. Yes, you need to focus. But much like Killers of the Flower Moon, is framed as this um slow reveal whodunit about uh this kind of genocidal massacre and investigation the movie is sort of inverted in the way that it's framed and we will get very shortly to leonardo dicaprio and the role that he played in that um the zone of interest is very similar it's like there's a kernel of an idea that Glazer then went forward with and reshaped and reimagined.

It took him a long time to do this and unpack it. We talked about it on the show when he was on. It's cool that it's recognized. My gut when I see this is that it means either Oppenheimer or Poor Things is going to end up winning Adapted. And if the Oppenheimer wave is really strong, and I think that screenplay personally,

I know you have your issues with the third act. I think that screenplay is pretty underrated have your issues with the third act I think that screenplay is pretty underrated when you talk to the people who made the movie about the way that he basically conceived fully of the story it wasn't like oh and then we'll cut back to this black and white sequence like it is beat for beat him

capturing the movie in his mind adapting a 700 page book that is sitting right there on my shelf so to me, it's not, I don't, I don't see, I don't see Barbie getting,

getting the look there, but it also just feels, it just feels oddly out of place with this collection of adaptations because it's an IP adaptation. It's not a story based adaptation. Whereas American fiction based on a novel, the zone of interest based on a novel, poor things based on a novel.

And of course Oppenheimer based on a massive nonfiction tome. But maybe that just distinguishes it in some way. Maybe that's a credit to it. I'm not sure. Yeah, I can't tell. Sometimes the screenplay categories are a place to reward directors or filmmakers who are admired but aren't going to win anything else so in that case you could see it happening but it just doesn't seem really like barbie is admired enough for for that to happen it does have eight nominations yeah sure um two of them are songs not two of them are um but it doesn't have nine nominations. So we'll save it. There's one more thing that could have been nominated. Pleased, as always, to see Martin Scorsese recognized for his work.

His 10th nomination for directing. That makes him the most nominated living filmmaker in the world. I think it puts him in second place all time amongst directors behind William Wyler, who has 12. I don't think he's going to get there. But that is sort of the Joe DiMaggio hitting streak record of Oscars. Like I never in a million years would have thought in 1999 that anyone was ever going to get close to William Wyler's 12 nominations. It's not out of the realm of possibility for Scorsese at this point,

which is pretty wild. He, so he passes Spielberg on the active list. And his muse and partner, Leonardo DiCaprio, snubbed. To me, this is like, you can quibble about

whether snubs exist or don't exist. This is a snub. This sucks. This is a weird thing that happened. I think it's easy to say Colman Domingo

moved into his spot for his work in Rustin. I think we love Colman Domingo. I did not his spot for his work in Rustin. I think we love Coleman Domingo. I did not think Rustin was a very good film. It feels like a nomination for someone

who is really beloved. And his work is fine. But it's very traditional biopic work. It feels very similar to me to a net-bending nomination. Right.

Also, by the way, both Netflix films. Both Netflix films, much admired. Yeah. They're still working hard. Strong campaigns, yes. A lot of power and money behind those campaigns and very charming people who have

deep ties to the industry who work in film and television. But the Leo thing is interesting because this does happen sometimes. And it's been suggested by a few people that Leo might be in his 21st century Tom Hanks era. And I think that that's right. This is like shades of Tom Hanks not. And I think that that's right. This is like this is shades of Tom Hanks

not getting nominated for Captain Phillips where you're like, I don't know. This is like an amazing transformation from one of the best actors and most famous people in the world. Like what is the, why are we not, we're not recognizing this just because we have so many times before.

I find things like this hard to make sense of spending so much time thinking about it because on paper it's like well Scorsese with 10 of course he's Martin Scorsese what a genius but Leo no is it because that's

an unlikable character is it because he's uglied himself in a way that is not appealing and not what we expect from him I mean he's definitely

not the hero there's also he's playing a quote unquote simpleton who then like how simple is this person and how much does it like is he stupid versus is he evil versus like what's going on and i think people don't often give

credit to how difficult like those shades are to portray and so they and they just go with the judgment of being like well i i don't i don't like this character yeah If you can disinvite Margot Robbie and Leonardo DiCaprio From your award show should you do it I realize that this is not a Uniform group of people sitting in a room Making a decision together but it just Feels like cutting off your nose just by your face

You know and it's another thing where they Gave Barbie best picture and they know that Margot is going to be There supporting it in that way which is like sort of been the annoying trend of award season it's like well we won't give barbie any of the real awards but we'll give them just enough that we can still have margot robbie and greta gerwig on stage we saw the golden glows too you know which is just i'm not i'm not going to say anything you guys can read into it what you want. But the Leo thing is just stupid.

I don't get it. I mean, I think he obviously made a choice to take a step back to support Lily Gladstone's campaign. Yeah. Which, of course, looks like to be a thoughtful and chivalrous move and the right thing to do in many ways. And he just hasn't done a lot relative to what he has done in the past when he was really trying to win.

And everything that he's done, he's done with her. With her. Which is like very cool. Honestly. We're in support of Scorsese. Yeah. And something

somewhat similar happened I think maybe unintentionally during Once Upon a Time in Hollywood when he effectively became the support system for Brad Pitt. Now, I like Brad Pitt

in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. To me, the Leo system for Brad Pitt. Now I like Brad Pitt. And once upon a time in Hollywood, to me, the Leo performance is significantly more crucial and interesting and more representative of the way that Leo has challenged himself as a filmmaker and star as an artist and star, but he's just in a different phase now. And I'll be very curious to see, you know,

we know he's making a movie with PTA, but like what his next, because Tom Hanks has just been doing weird shit for 20 years. He's worried a lot less about being a matinee idol or box office star driving the future of the business. He's making movies with the Wachowskis and

he's making, you know, a man called Otto like he's he's writing novels and being a goofball on pods like he's in a different era completely. Leo is still Leo like he's in a different era completely leo is still leo like he is still one of the centrifugal forces of hollywood so it'll be interesting to see something like this is probably not gonna have an impact i get i get the impression he doesn't give a shit but it's a very notable miss that most people did not have up until about two to

three weeks ago when people started speculating it could happen because he missed that a couple of key precursors. Maestro has seven nominations? Yeah. This is a very quiet seven nominations? Yeah, but they're the nominations in each category

that I'm like, well, I could just get rid of that and put in someone I like. That's where you're at with Maestro. I am. Wow. Listen, I liked it a lot.

But like, would you put Leo instead of Bradley Cooper? Sure, yes. I don't want to have to choose between my beautiful damaged boys. like they're beautiful,

but I think that this is a bad outcome for the future of Bradley Cooper because he's not going to win anything, but it's not going to provide any like angst or anger for the creativity, you know, mill. So I would, I would take it. And then this,

I guess this is going to be scandalous, but whatever it's early in the morning, like I would drop Carrie Mulligan in a heartbeat for Margot Robbie or for, and like for anybody else, she's a wonderful actor who is, um is consistently recognized at the Oscars for performances I don't care that much about, with the exception of Education, which rules. Yeah, I think this is her third nomination. I don't really have a strong

feeling either way. I think the whole framework of that movie doesn't make sense, and in many ways, Carey Mulligan is giving not even a lead performance. I think in a lot of ways, it's a supporting a supporting performance but has been framed very much by the opening and closing of the movie to make you think that she is not supporting bradley cooper's performance in some way i i wonder how we'll look back on maestro if we look back on it at all uh yeah it felt like a kind of inevitable machine a year ago when you would look at it on paper and

say okay bradley cooper's follow-up to a star is born produced by steven spielberg and martin scorsese there's been a rumor of a leonard bernstein biopic for more than a decade in hollywood got josh singer in to help write the screenplay this is the guy who wrote spotlight he wrote the post he wrote first man he knows how to do a story like this carrie mulligan on board you got maddie libatique shooting it black and white i mean it looks good it's good it's good but like but it's it's again it's all of those pieces of the puzzle but something yeah didn't totally cohere to me what didn't cohere is it just a very core thematic you trying to tell me what this movie is about versus what i think this movie is about yeah and i i think voters felt that too yes you

know but they nominated it in picture actor actress screenplay it's a big achievement as a production yeah you know and i think that that's kind of what this shows which is is interesting it's the only film that has a best picture nomination from a streamer and we are now fully out of that pandemic pandemic lockdown era when the streamers were able to capitalize pretty significantly and apple and amazon and all these other outlets were able to get best picture nominations been some big changes in netflix sc Stuber is out. On his way. Yeah. So he is leaving. He was layered a few months ago under

Bella Bejaria and many people speculated when that happened that he would be out. Hate to get layered. And so he's out and he's been there for I think almost seven years. And so he was the person greenlighting a lot of these films. Netflix has been on this long journey

to best picture and that journey continues I think because Maestro is not really competing. This was a really good year for theatrical box office and for mainstream movie going

and for art house movie going and the awareness of movies like Anatomy of a Fall and Poor Things and movies that are coming out of COVID were not guaranteed to kind of bounce back.

So I think that the streamers suffer in some respects i think also i wonder if my if netflix could do it again if they would reorient where their attentions lie like now i look at a movie like society of the snow and what happened with yeah with all quiet on the western front i'm like would it have been better to put all the society of the snow out november and because people are still watching that movie and enjoying it and it feels like a big important international story with incredible effects

and design and performances and yeah I don't know if you could if you could redo it would you redo it? The main guy Enzo

is now like on the European fashion show circuit did you see this? How exciting he was at the Loewe show with all the other Cannibal Couture

Loewe boys no but it's that was like a real whoever cast like the guest list of that did an amazing job because it was like josh o'connor who has that deal mike feist joe owen um calum turner calum turner yeah yeah start the boys in the boat right and who's dating someone who once again we will get to it do you know this i don't know oh this is very exciting what a what a crescendo this podcast is uh is he dating yorgos lanthimos anyway um and then the society of the snow guy so he's really in the mix now i don't all your boys oh it's like i realized i realized that my type is a loewe boy, which is really exciting. What else should we say?

I mean, John Williams has 54 Oscar nominations. That's sick. What'd you think of his work in Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny? Why don't you hum a tune for us from that film? I took my son to a lights show around the holidays, as many people do across this great land. This one was in Atlanta. I got to say, the Atlanta Botanical Gardens is really putting on a wonderful holiday lights show.

I'm sure they greatly appreciate that shout out on this podcast. I don't know if you're in the area. Checks in the mail from the municipality. They used the Indiana Jones theme song for like a really climactic event in the lights show. Was that licensed or? I didn't check, but it was very effective. In that moment, I was like walking under a tunnel

into some enchanted forest and the lights were falling and from the trees and it was Indiana Jones and I was excited. So just so I'm clear about this, your comment about John Williams, living legend, the oldest living nominee in Oscar history, I believe he's 91 years old, also the most nominated living human.

Your comment is they played one of his compositions at an Atlantic garden. My comment. Over Christmas. My comment is that his music is so powerful. What he has contributed, it transcends cinema. You know, it transcends Hollywood. It is a part of the fabric of our lives. There we go.

That's it. Nice. Well done. There's the context we need. Hollywood's biggest night! How do you feel about the holdovers? I feel the same way I always feel. Nice movie.

I don't mean your feelings on the film. This is an episode about the Oscar nomination. So we're going to talk about that aspect of things, if you don't mind. It was like, oh, it's a movie. I saw it. It did pretty well here. It did, you know, five nominations. I'll just say five nominations for the holdovers, American fiction, and the zone of interest.

I want to mark this because I'll just, I'll just say five nominations for the holdovers, American fiction and the zone of interest. I want to mark this because I'll just I'll indict myself. I complain all the time about how Hollywood fucked me over. I finally got into my 40s and I got this podcast and I'm so excited about it. And then they were like, well, you will get forever is fast X. And in fact, these are three original stories from really great filmmakers, completely different kinds of movies. The kinds of filmmakers,

honestly, a French woman, a black American, and an old white guy who also is constantly trying to explain how the world is bad, who are getting lots of nominations for their movies. And really good films.

I'm not stunned by the way that these movies have been appreciated. I do think that there has been a little bit of like Hollywood's biggest night. Like let's get back to good films in the last year or so, maybe two years or so. But the holdovers simultaneously like impressed me and disappointed me

with how it did this morning. Like there were a lot of, there was some suggestion that maybe Dominic Sessa It simultaneously impressed me and disappointed me with how it did this morning. There was some suggestion that maybe Dominic Sessa had a chance late breaking to get in because he was really good at wearing sunglasses. I mean, he is really good at wearing sunglasses. And that's one of the things where we talked about how there are always a couple surprises on nominations morning. And you wake up and you're like, hey, Phantom Threat or hey, and there weren't

any nominations this morning where you're like, hey, Dominic Sessa, you know, like Rachel McAdams was not nominated. I thought maybe when she showed up on SNL

to introduce Renee Rapp, but I thought it was even classier that she waited until after Oscar voting to endorse the, you know, to endorse the new Regina George.

But the Dominic says a thing to me is less of a verdict on the holdovers and more of a verdict on like, no one got splashy with the nominations this morning. I think the quote unquote disappointment for the holdovers has got to be Alexander Payne not getting in for director. Yeah. Which I would guess actually he's probably a little bit relieved to not be the guy who replaced greta gerwig in the nomination he's been honored many times i don't think that that would

be ideal to be um the portrait of uh frustration and uh women's inability to get into that into that group with the exception of justine trier obviously the the one like splash that you're talking about i think is a really bad splash and this is not nothing against this actress but the america ferreira nomination is just fucking weird i mean it's weird in the context of no greta gerwig and director no margot robbie and best actress but somehow america ferreira makes it in and supporting that's my point

I mean obviously they're not competing in the same category so it's not like oh well America for Error replaced Margot Robbie I understand that

but I just I think she's fine in that movie I think that character is a tool to telling the story yeah but she's got

the speech it's a very good speech. James Cameron loved it. He talked about how Greta really managed to just condense the experience of American womanhood. Also an incredible writer of dialogue, James Cameron. One of his great skills. He did that interview from

a submarine. Maybe the America for Era nomination is for putting up with Kevin Costner. Just floating that. I think I might have said that on the maybe the America for our nomination is for putting up with Kevin Costner. Just, just floating that. I think I might've said that on the globe spot where I was like, maybe there's a sympathy card that gets played here for America for air for him.

No, I really liked her in that movie. And I liked it. And I was bummed, but I thought it was a shame when she was like pretty early dropped from the awards chatter throughout the season. And so I don't mind it. But it is weird.

Like the logic of where the nominations landed does not quite make sense. This is a funky category supporting actress. It's Emily Blunt, Danielle Brooks, America Ferreira, Jodie Foster, and Dave enjoy Randolph as is so often the case categories like this are very unrepresentative of the best picture nominees or of the feeling across the board part of the reason that is not a lot of great parts written

for women especially in supporting parts they're often just moms or wives or secretaries I just I this feels like a very unadventurous group of nominees and Dave I enjoy Randolph has obviously

been dominating. Yeah. Would have liked to have seen a little Julianne Moore in here, personally. Sure. But to counterpoint one thing, and I know that I have not been the most supportive of Emily Blunt's campaign for a supporting actress. I didn't put together that it's her first Oscar nomination, which is nice. And there is, like, I'm going to read the list of first-time Oscar nominees. Let's do it. Acting nominees.

Emily Blunt, Danielle Brooks, Coleman Domingo, America Ferreira, Lily Gladstone, Sandra Huller, Cillian Murphy, Dave Andre Randolph, Jeffrey Wright, and Sterling K. Brown. Another good surprise. Not shocking after we saw SAG and the fact that one of the two poor things supporting actor nominees wasn't going to get in. But he's great. I feel like I've put him up for recasting couch on the rewatchable like 45 times. Yeah. So hopefully this just means more opportunity for him.

He's very good. That character is really interesting and really funny. And it's a movie that like otherwise I think would be a little too grounded without him. Yeah. And he lifts the movie off its feet sometimes. He's kind of the chaos agent of the movie and he's really, really wonderful in that one.

So yeah, a lot of really good first time nominees. I was very happy to see Sandra Huller get in. Totally. For her work in Anatomy of a Fall. I don't know if I, when I first saw that movie

and of course, it won the Palme d'Or at Cannes, so it's not shocking that it's being recognized here because the Palme d'Or now all of a sudden is like a hugely meaningful prize to the American voting body

of the Oscars, which did not used to be this way. Right. But everybody wants to go hang out in France. In the Alps? No, no in France. In the Alps? No, no, no, no. In the French courts?

No, not in the French courts. Oh, you mean at the Cannes Film Festival? Yeah, yeah. They're just kind of like, well, I like the vibes, so I'll check out the movies too. I mean, in general, Cannes is one of the winners of this awards. Like Venice and Telluride did okay, but Kills the Far Moon premiered at Cannes. Right. I mean, some of that was also- Zone of Inter awards. Like, Venice and Telluride did okay, but Kills the Far Moon premiered at Cannes.

Right. I mean, some of that was also Zone of Interest. Some of that was Strike related. That's true. That's true.

And Poor Things was at Venice and Telluride. It was. Maestro. Maestro was at Venice, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Well, we know how you feel about Maestro. You said Maestro was the worst film you saw last year? I just,

I would make room. I would compromise in a different way. Did you see that Godzilla minus one got a nomination for visual effects? That's great. You know, when it made the shortlist a few weeks back, and I had a couple of friends who were in the Academy telling me that it was guaranteed

that it was going to be nominated for visual effects. And I didn't believe them. And shame on me for for just not believing them because they were like, there's such an overwhelming amount of support for that movie. You could even hear it in the announcement this morning. Zazie Beetz and Jack Quaid, both of whom I thought

gave very funny performances, by the way, reading the nominations with a particular emphasis on actors or films that they really liked. But when Godzilla Minus One was announced, people fucking screaming at that whatever that event is and who are the psychos who were at that event at 5 30 in the morning who are those people i i don't know we've never been invited would you go uh i think we could pretty easily go if we wanted to um would i go no yeah i will roll that abed at 5 29 and uh that was that's what really interesting to me is that you still get up to watch it live

yeah I'm a steward of great works I woke up at 6 a.m. pulled up a list didn't even put my glasses on it was real like phone one inch from my nose cool read everything and immediately got a little disgusted and texted you and then went and had coffee. I think if you look through my text messages over the years, going back to 2018, when we started doing this together, you can just search for the phrase, these morons, which will come up once a year, every year, right around the same time when the noms drop. I tell you what I didn't think was moronic was a nomination for Ed Lackman for El Conde, which I did not have on my bingo card.

I also saw that at Venice. You did. See, it's not done. It's not done. Well, yeah. El Conde getting nominated in anything is fascinating. The cinematography in that movie is genuinely fantastic. It's a beautiful movie.

And so I was excited about that. I don't know. Any other small ones that you were happy about? Celine Song did make it an original screenplay as well as Past Lives getting a Best Picture nomination. That's good. I feel really good about that. Very good.

The very rare screenplay and picture pairing and just that, which I think has become a little bit more common with the introduction of 10 full nominees at Best Picture. I don't know any other like not really any other great surprises. We shouldn't overlook Glazer and Trier.

It's easy to make a joke about the European fascination in the Academy. Those are two really great films and great filmmakers. Yes. And Glazer just let me just say this. I saw Zone of Interest for a second time. We're going to talk really great films and great filmmakers. Yes. And Glazer just, let me just say this. I saw Zone of Interest for a second time. We're going to talk about it in depth later this week on the show.

I think now it is justified to kind of spend a little bit more time on the film now that, in theory, it will be opening more widely and people will want to go see it. Boy, this is a very unusual film to get five Oscar nominations.

And that's not a value judgment of any kind. But as I've tried to frame it as more of a work of textural art. And it's not a movie movie. It's a very thin narrative. It takes wild turns stylistically and structurally. True. And it is challenging, thought-provoking, very upsetting.

Obviously, what it's about is resonant in what's happening in the world right now, what's happening in the Middle East, what's happening with the notions of fascism, violence, the way that people

attempt to address world problems. It fits in this time, but the way that it's told, it's actually the least commercial of jonathan glazer's four films and his first three films are not very commercial yeah i've been doing the glazer rewatch i mean that's some powerful stuff but that it is also a unique world to to spend a weekend yeah yeah um so i'm happy about that broadly, but it is unusual. I didn't think there were a ton of

what the fucks, but I was, you know, speaking of your, your two friends, the Robot Dreams nomination. Yeah. What's that?

Best animated was, it's a, it's a, I think it's a Spanish film. Pablo Berger is the director. Why can't robots have dreams? I don't, I don't,

I don't think... Isn't that one of the crucial questions confronting society right now? Well... And a film that explores it with all the tools that animation provides? Do you know what the original title of the story that Blade Runner is based on?

Robot dreams? No, it's called Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? Oh yeah, I do know that. So this is a time-tested concept. I know that. That's my thing. I feel like I don't care whether robots have feelings.

We've been doing this for 75 years. Why is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles not in? I don't know, man. That's between you and your gods. You know, I showed up. I bought a ticket. Did you see the film Nimona? You know what? Not yet. I bought a ticket. Did you see the film Nimona? You know what?

Not yet. I was actually going to watch it last night. And instead, I watched a movie, a really sick movie, for a different podcast that we're doing this week. Okay. I don't want to spoil it. Okay. You recently rewatched it, though, because I saw it on Letterboxd that you reblogged this film. I actually don't know what you're referring to, but that's really exciting.

So Robot Dreams got in, which means... Let me just speak for one second about Wish. Yo, Wish, we are going so hard with Wish in this house that you are in right now. We got Wish gear. So Wish happens in here? Is the ADU garage is a Wish space? But when we acquire the physical media, it will.

Oh, that's right. Wish, of course, a quasi-maligned Disney animation film celebrating 100 years of their animated movies. Didn't get a nomination today. Elemental did get a nomination for Best Animated Feature. I did say that when the Annie's didn't recognize Elemental or Wish, they would be stunning if both Pixar and Disney missed out. They did not. Spider-Verse got in. Boy in the Heron got in. I feel like Boy in the Heron is pretty

locked in to winning that category. I'd be surprised if it didn't. Disappointed to not see Joe Hisaishi for best score. I think it was a long shot, but best score is kind of weird. John Williams, of course, beloved, but that's an odd nomination i think oppenheimer and ludwig gerritsen has got it in the bag i don't really

get that american fiction nomination it's a score's fine um i can't say that i remember it relative to some other stuff on the board like the spider verse score is amazing. Genuinely amazing. And to not get a look for something that is as like kind of light and fluttery, jazzy, and something that we've just heard in many, many movies before. No disrespect to the folks who worked on that film, but I just thought that was an odd nomination. Know the Taste of Things in Best International Feature. Or Fallen Leaves. Or Fallen Leaves. But Taste of Things is one of the travesties of this in Best International Feature. Or Fallen Leaves. Or Fallen Leaves. But Taste of Things is one of the travesties of this morning, in my opinion.

Do you think that the French body that chose this film rather than Anatomy of a Fall is regretting that decision on this day? I guess so. How much does the French body that chooses the international feature film care about winning that Oscar? I mean, I assume that they would prefer to win it as opposed to not win it, but they seem pretty French and, you know, laissez-faire, if you will. My understanding is it's 35 men named Jacques in a room.

Are you watching Monsieur Spade? I'm not. I'm not. Is that something I should be watching? That's the only show that I'm not I'm not is that something I should be watching it's the only show that I'm watching right now that holds the Amanda Belt for TV right now

which is the one show that I'm watching at any given time but like I am seriously considering moving to the south of France okay

I wish you well in that respect so this is your final episode then I'll be able to go to Cannes and see all of next year's best picture winners definitely

in May. Do you speak French? Yeah, I do. Fluently? No, but that is the language other than English that I am best at. A little bit of room for you to talk about Dua Lipa. Yeah, they didn't nominate Dance the Night Away for original song. They nominated I'm Just can thank god because if

they'd passed up the opportunity for ryan gosling to perform at the oscars that would have been incredibly stupid they nominated that billy eilish dirge which will win and we'll all have to sit through it being like performed at the five most boring minutes of your life the song is called what was i made for um you see you're having a normal one about this huh they nominated the fire inside from the film flaming hot yeah which is about cheetos oscar nominated film flaming hot you know what i thought it held my attention apparently it's like barely based on uh reality but it's not very good uh whatever uh they nominated it never went away from american symphony yes which was actually not nominated documentary even though we both picked it to win

i did not pick it to win i don't think what did you pick it what did you pick to win no i think that you did because you gave a whole speech about how this year it's personality-driven documentary, as you think. Well, I was wrong about that when you look at the nominees in that category. And then they nominated a song for my people from Killers of the Flowerbed, which I'm fine with. Yeah, I mean, this category is the disaster piece of the Oscars every year. But Dance the Night Away is featured prominently in Barbie. It is the song to which they do the choreographed number at the sleepover that happens every night at Barbie's dream house. It's genuinely very catchy.

It taught me about Dua Lipa, who's dating Callum Turner. They were making out outside of Sushi Park did you see the film The Boys in the Boat no but I almost went to see it a couple times

okay great story and I was like I'll probably like it if I go I saw it it's uh to use an Amanda-ism it held my attention

I definitely it is passable as these things go I will watch it when it's available in my home it is um it is a stealth hit it is the second highest gross things go I will watch it when it's available in my home it is a stealth hit it is the second

highest grossing George Clooney directed movie of all time which is really something I think he's directed like nine movies

many of which have been forgotten to history but yeah seems to be doing well it's a real old guy movie yeah it just

seems right down the middle like full dad stuff uncomplicated well made good performances anyway Dua Lipa won't be at the Oscars old guy movie. Yeah, it just seems... Just right down the middle. Like full dad stuff. Uncomplicated. Yeah, but I'll like it. Well made. Good performances. Anyway, Dua Lipa won't be at the Oscars.

Well, maybe. We'll see. Would you go? Dua Lipa, I got your back and I don't think that you should go without a nomination. You could come over and have Negronis with me instead.

Okay, fair enough. With your hot boyfriend. Yeah, this is a... It's a weird collection of nominees. Quickly, documentary feature film, Bobey Wine, The People's President, The Eternal Memory, Four Daughters to Kill a Tiger, and 20 Days in Mariupol.

I guess 20 Days in Mariupol is the leader here. A film that chronicles the devastation in the Ukraine. I think The Eternal Memory is probably running closely with it. A very upsetting film about a marriage and Alzheimer's and a journalist. I haven't seen Four Daughters

or To Kill a Tiger. So To Kill a Tiger had a very small release. So that was a very surprising nomination to me. I definitely would have thought something along the lines of American Symphony

would have gone into that place. I was wrong. You've seen all the shorts that were shortlisted. So do you want to give your dissertation on that right now? So Wes Anderson did get one nomination. Congratulations to Wes Anderson. The wonderful story of Henry Sugar nominated and almost certainly will win for best short feature. you know where I saw that? At Venice. I thought we turned the page to 2024. Yeah, no, we didn't. We didn't.

Asteroid City, nothing. But at least we got a short film. Unsurprising, but still sort of a travesty. Yeah, and then all the other short films I will watch in my home as they're made available to me. I saw a trailer for, you know, because they do release the shorts in theaters every year. I've never gone. But I saw a trailer for last year's shorts. I saw a trailer advertising this year's program featuring last year's shorts.

You brought some great stories to this pod. I'm not done with my stories. I know. I'm just observing it in real time. I was just like, wow, I've seen a lot of those. I'm not done with my story. I know. I'm just observing it in real time. I was just like, wow, I've seen a lot of those. I remember that.

You were like, I saw a commercial. I saw guys dating a girl. What commercial? Listen, the Dua Lipa calendar is hugely important to my Gen Z constituency.

Okay? Okay. And people online. Gen Z mommy strikes again. You didn't even listen when I was like they were making out outside of Sushi Park you know I've been there yeah like Sushi Park yeah sure but it's like the

well it's like the celebrated celebrity place you can always get a paparazzi photo of people on the balcony leaving Sushi Park and that is where Dua Lipa and Callum Turner were making out I'd like to thank the entity for acquiring two nominations for mission impossible dead reckoning,

which is no longer dead reckoning part one. We didn't discuss the fact that the part one was dropped from the title of that film. So does that mean that they're just going to rename the next one? I suspect so. Okay. That's just Tom doing work. That's Tom looking at the field.

You know, the offensive coordinator is looking at what the defense is giving him they said please stop putting part one in your movie title sir and he said aye aye captain how many emails do you think were sent in total among people okay first of all okay scale back scale back i've got zoom out Zoom out. Zoom out. Enhance. Does Tom Cruise email? Oh, wow. I think he has a person who does that on his behalf. Okay.

And then are they read aloud to him or printed out? Read aloud. I think read aloud. Okay. And so. He's on the go. He can't be handed pieces of paper. Okay.

And so, and then he is like dictating back. He's got an earpiece and he's on. Whenever he's not filming, he's just on his motorcycle he doesn't sleep he's just on the motorcycle racing around the the contiguous states okay all right so how many motorcycle emails did he dictate about dropping the title whose idea was it is the question to me was it his idea that he said, we got to get part one out of the paint?

We made an error? Well, that was my second question. Did Macquarie convince him? Which is like, how many emails total? Was it Paramount's idea? In the Paramount universe. Did this idea

spark Tom Cruise leaving Paramount to join Warner Brothers? Which is not actually what he did, but how it was framed when that news was announced. Do you think it's like 2,300?

2,300 emails? 2,300? Do you think it's like 2,300? 2,300 emails? Yeah. 2,300? That is probably low. Think about how these people email, you know? 2,300? And they're just like, we'll have to circle back

and we'll have to check it and then like here are some numbers and we got to set a meeting. Like that's, yeah. How many emails do you write in a year? I don't email. That's my point. People don't email. Sure, my point. People don't email.

Sure, but I'm not paramount. You know, that's like old school. I think it was like at least four figures of emails. So we're in the thousands of emails. Okay. I got to say, you have a very unique mind. I don't fully understand how it works, but I'm proud of you. The film The Creator also got two nominations.

Watched it on a plane. You did? Yeah. What'd you think of that movie? I'm realizing now. Did you take a flight just to watch it in that environment? Realizing now I didn't finish it. I had it going on my TV.

And then I had Barbie going on Knox's TV because I thought that the colors and the movement would entertain him, which they kind of did. Wow. That's an indoctrination of your child. He can say hi, Barbie. Uh, which he learned from the Barbie plane that your daughter owns. Yeah. Alice can say hi Barbie as well. Yeah. Uh, I mean, looked cool on a plane, you i'm sure that was exactly what the filmmakers intended for me um yeah i the creator is it the visual effects oscar is legit like i i think it could and probably should win i feel like godzilla minus one might win okay do you have any nominations napoleon got three three that's a lot respect ridley and respect a fantastical time at the movies you know i everyone was just really mad in their history books logging on talking about this and that and it's not what they taught me and it was just a funny time at the movies. I agree. What are you most disappointed about as we look back on this?

I just, I feel a little bummed about the prominence of Greta Gerwig in all the lead up to the awards. And that thing of let's figure out how we can get Greta Gerwig on stage for an award that's not Best Director or Best Picture. This is how I felt about Endgame. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How dare you?

How dare you use this movie? And it's fine and I don't know whose spot I would take in Best Director and she's probably a billionaire if anyone has any info on her points.

Why is that important to you? I'm genuinely curious. I honestly don't know what you're talking about. I'm just curious how much money she made. That's what runs this town. Don't you understand that?

Thank God you're here. The brass tacks of the business. You asked me to come to your garage at 7.30 in the morning. This is what a billion dollars. So we're going to follow the money. This is what a billion dollars can get you.

Follow the fucking money. A room full of plastic. Yeah. So she'll be fine. She's great. And it's not some travesty. And I think people were expecting me to yell and I'm not going to yell. And this is also true to Margot Robbie and an extent in Best Actress.

I just, I think what they accomplished was a little undervalued and the way that they were trotted out and then not rewarded. It just leaves a bad taste. Yeah, that's all. Totally understand. I guess I don't really have a huge disappointment. I think that the Leo snub is just one of those silly things that kind of forms over the period of a few weeks. And here we are. Is there anything that you're really looking forward to now that

you've seen all the nominations for the telecast something that you're excited for a win that you're rooting for rooting for uh lily gladstone i am rooting for the budding bromance between mark ronson and ryan gosling to make it on to the Academy stage, perhaps in the form of a performance. The only time I've rooted for a live performance at the Academy Awards. There's been some murmurings that Ryan Gosling will not perform. I'm just Ken. What do you think about that? I mean, I think that that is probably the right decision for him as a person with self-respect. I also wouldn't do it live. I would do it in the movie,

but not live. You know, that's just me. You have to draw a line somewhere. Yep. Um, but, but maybe they could at least present together something.

I don't know. They're buds now, according to Instagram. And I enjoy that. One thing we didn't talk about was, uh, John Mulaney hosting the governor's awards. Yeah. He's very good. Being amazing.

Yeah. I feel like probably both of us, I know I for sure have been like, John Mulaney should host the Oscars for like the last six or seven years.

Well, you've alternated between John Mulaney and The Rock. I do think The Rock should as well. Yeah. And he frankly needs that right now as he starts to rebuild

his reputation by making a film with A24. But, I think I had uh i think i had i think i had just seen him and kroll together do the spirit awards yeah and i was like this is let the two of them do this this is this is a home run and then he was brilliant in the clips that i saw from the governor's awards i wasn't there um and you know now we've got kimmel kimmel extremely reliable into in hosting this show.

Basically has never blundered. And whenever there's something weird happens, he's excellent at riffing when something strange happens. He keeps the train on the tracks. Very much so. Which is very hard to do as we have learned

at recent awards ceremonies. Yes, ace broadcaster, obviously friend of the ringer. But I do think, I would like them to see, now that millennia is through all of his personal stuff that he's been through over the last few years seems to be on the other side of some of those things. Uh,

I, I would like to see him get a, get a crack at this now because I, he, he struck me or at least to the people who were helping him write the joke struck me as people who are really watching the movies and making, writing a lot of smart jokes about the movies, which is something that I hope comes to the show this year.

Aside from that, I don't know. I don't have a, I don't have a ton of rooting interest. It's hard to not feel like this is just a bulldozer of an Oppenheimer year, which I won't complain about, but could potentially make March 10th kind of boring. Sometimes that happens,

you know, sometimes the chiefs roll into town and they beat your team. There's an inevitability to Patrick Mahomes and Christopher Nolan at times. And Taylor Swift. And Taylor Swift. And the NFL's desire to see Taylor Swift in the Super Bowl. Do you believe in that? Do you believe that the NFL would fix the AFC championship game to lift up Taylor Swift? I mean, it seems like the NFL is capable of anything except being respectable. So, wow. Right. But you know, I don't have an opinion on that.

Interesting. Do you think Christopher Nolan should somehow get involved in the Superbowl just to kind of lock things in? We can kind of bring, create a union of all of our culture. No, he's, you know, he's just doing personal fitness and I support him for that. I thought actually, like when he was asked about the Peloton instructor, a very charming and gracious response. He, because he was asked whether he had seen her response

and he was like, no, I didn't. Or maybe he was asked if he had, I don't remember. It was something about how he's taking a break from Peloton, but he loves them and something. It was charming. Okay. Well, that probably sealed best director for Christopher Nolan. A very thoughtful response. Any closing thoughts here?

What are we going to do to make it interesting for the next six to eight to something weeks? I'll come up with another game. I don't know. Something, some sort of blood sport that will make this exciting. I mean, I think there are a couple of really still very exciting races that we'll spend a lot of time on. Giamatti versus Killian Murphy,

Lily Gladstone versus Emma Stone. Can Robert Downey Jr. Be wounded, be pierced in this race? Um, is there, is there like a, yeah,

screenplays, both, both of those, I think are very hard to predict right now. So it's not that everything is dull, but it does seem like it's Oppenheimer and everything else in Best Picture. Even movies, like I thought The Holdovers was really strong.

No pain tells me it's not as strong as I thought. You know, I thought Anatomy of a Fall is weirdly a movie that has now risen in my estimation of what people think of it. I'll tell you, the one thing we forgot to mention that I thought was so interesting was it getting into film editing. Now, obviously,

the editing is a critical part of that film because it's a courtroom drama. There's a lot of memory and reflection and recreation and what-ifs in the structure of the movie. And it is brilliantly edited. But a foreign language film about that kind of subject matter

getting into editing is... It means people are taking it seriously. They're taking it seriously. They're taking it seriously. I guess original screenplay is not really suspenseful because Justine Trevay will win. That seems... You think so?

Don't you think? Because I still, despite it getting into editing, I think that Oppenheimer when editing, that editing is extraordinary. I agree with you. And pace setting

and tone setting in that film. I don't... Holdovers is tough. I agree with you. And pace setting and tone setting in that film. I don't... Holdovers is tough. Holdovers versus Anatomy of a Fall feels like a real race to me in screenplay.

Yeah, but as you said, Payne fell out of Best Director. There is real respect for Justin Trie and Anatomy of a Fall and the screenplay category is normally where they reward that.

Yeah, that's an interesting one. Okay, we'll probably talk more about that. Probably talk more about Anatomy of a Fall. Still screenplay category is normally where they reward that yeah that's an interesting one okay we'll probably talk more about that probably talk more about anatomy of fall still not streaming well go to the cinema I

do most days and it's wonderful couldn't agree more thank you to our producer Bobby Wagner for his work on this pod thanks Bob thanks for making

sure that we didn't screw up this recording what would we do without you later this week we're going to talk about the zone of interest we're going going to do a mailbag. So if you have any questions, if you have any outraged notes about the results, if you have any thoughts about Amanda's reading of the Callum Turner Dua Lipa relationship, anything you want to see at the

Academy Awards, let us know and we'll dig in. We'll see you then.