The Big Picture - '28 Years Later': Death, Zombies, and One of the Year's Best Movies

Episode Date: June 21, 2025

Sean and Amanda are joined by Chris Ryan and react to a myriad of different movie news headlines, including the Academy’s decision to give Tom Cruise an honorary Oscar, Glen Powell’s casting in an upcoming Ron Howard firefighter film, and the first trailer for ‘Springsteen: Deliver Me From Nowhere’—starring Jeremy Allen White (3:54). Then, they unpack Danny Boyle and Alex Garland’s highly anticipated zombie horror sequel, ‘28 Years Later.’ They celebrate its exhilarating filmmaking and the interesting decision to shoot on an iPhone, explore why Boyle and Garland complement each other’s work so well, and consider where this ranks amongst Boyle’s filmography (22:22). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Chris Ryan Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, except we did 120 songs. And now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts, 2000 to 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, J-Lo, Kanye, sure. And now this show is called 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, colon the 2000s.

Wow, that's too long a title for me to say anything else right now. Just trust me, that's 60 Songs That Explain the 90s colon the 2000s. Wow. That's too long a title for me to say anything else right now. Just trust me, that's 60 songs that explain the 90s colon the 2000s, preferably on Spotify. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbin. And this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about zombies and other things. Today on the show, we are digging into 28 Years Later, the third film in the 28 Zombie series, a reunion of the original 28 Days Later's team of director Danny Boyle and

writer Alex Garland, a favorite of this show. CR's here to break it down. The real alpha. In more ways than one, we will get into that. But first, a programming reminder. If you are listening to this show, you are listening to the 799th episode of this show, which means Monday will be the 800th episode of The Big Picture, which is a big number. Is it a meaningful number? I say yes. And so we are doing a mailbag. What did we do for 750? I don't remember. You have the archive. I don't actually. As you know, it was destroyed.

So that's gone? That's gone. Yes. Holy shit. Wait, that might be saved actually, but I'm not going to look back at this exact moment. So if you want to email us anything about movies, we gave you an advice episode recently, no more advice, at least for now, Amanda is taking that advice directly on her IG, which is at alpha zombie girl. You can find her DMS are open. You can email us at big pick mailbag at gmail.com.

That's big pick mailbag at gmail.com. Will you be emailing us, Chris? No, but I want to know when do either I get my own solo mailbag for Big Pick or... Solo mailbag? ...Me, Tracy Letts, and Joanna Robinson get to do a third chair mailbag. Oh, that's a good idea. You guys have like nine podcasts. Why do you need more podcasts?

I find the questions in Big Pick are very provocative and fun. I would like listening to it. Yeah. You're saying you don't get good questions from your listeners. We get fine questions. A lot of them are like, I am a doctor and the pit is good and it's not really a question. I see. Which I appreciate their feedback though. Why do you think you don't get good questions? Maybe because Andy and I answer all questions just with our pod.

Yeah, that's beautiful. There's no mystery. That's probably what it is. If Tracy Letts would like to do a solo episode... A mailbag? He could. But not me. He's allowed. He's beautiful. There's no mystery. That's probably what it is. If Tracy Lutz would like to do a solo episode. A mailbag? He could. But not me. He's allowed. OK. He's allowed.

You. Keep working. Keep putting up those shots. In case you're wondering, it appears that Episode 750, which I think is around her number or like a more significant number, was Moana 2 and I believe also Hot Frosty. Yeah. And where were you for that episode? Sitting at home.

That's true. Where was I? Grinding tape on Moana 2 with my precious daughter and Yasi and Rob. Yeah, that was a fun episode, but not really monumental. So maybe we'll make Monday fun. We'll also talk about Elio and maybe How to Train Your Dragon as well. I was going to ask you about that. So am I going to see Elio in like 20 minutes once this is done? Hopefully this episode is longer than 20 minutes. But I'm intending to see it on Sunday.

Yeah. I just, I mean, I got to work it into the schedule. So, right, we're on the clock now. Well, you're passing off your children shortly, you know, in 24 hours. And when you do, you can go right to a children's movie by yourself. How great. That sounds exciting. It's what a time to be me. You did it. You had a bit of a break from the episode this week. And so a raft of news came across the Transom CR. You hit a little bit of this stuff on the watch this week. We did. We did deliver me. Yeah. Let's just talk about Tom Cruise's Oscar. So he's getting an Academy Award. Yeah, he's getting an honorary Academy Award. Okay. And he's getting it along with a number of other folks, Debbie Allen, the choreographer, Wynn Thomas, production designer, one other person who went for Dolly Parton,

of course. Dario Argento. No, no Dario Argento. I wish that were the case. Alas, maybe next year Dario. So I noted this on x.com. This is awfully reminiscent potentially of the Paul Newman situation where in 1986, after not winning Best Actor, after being nominated many times, he was given an honorary Oscar for his good works in film. And then the next year he won for the color of money. Co-starring Tom Cruise.

Co-starring Tom Cruise, which we know now next year, Tom Cruise will be appearing in an Alejandro G. Iñárritu movie called... Judy? Roughly Judy," but I think that's a fake title for this film, which is a film about a man who the entire world hinges upon. That is, I think, a comedy. Okay.

Now, Ineritu, you know, not a big favorite of this podcast, but is someone who often directs actors to Academy Award nominations, directed Leonardo DiCaprio to an Academy Award win. Do you think that the Newman will happen here where Cruz will win and then win again? I don't. Okay. I don't. Part of it is a feeling.

Part of it is, I really wonder with the Inter Ritu movie, is he gonna subject himself to a regular press run? No. I don't wonder about that. I think that he will not. So can you win an Oscar without having to play the game? It's an interesting question.

You don't think so? I don't think he'll do a press tour or I don't think he'll win an Oscar. If he doesn't do the press tour, do you think he can win that Oscar then? I don't, but I don't think he's going to do it anyway because I don't think he's going to win it anyway. I mean, I understand the Paul Newman comp, but Paul Newman was nominated for like 45 Oscars. And well, that's a lot.

And I think Tom Cruise has had, and that's more than Tom Cruise. I think Cruise is three. Yeah, so the Academy has never really taken him seriously in the same way that they took Newman seriously, even if they never gave him the Oscar. And I just there's too much downside for him to be like on a podcast. You know, I don't know whether he can do it. So I don't think it'll happen, but I'm still holding out for Stun Oscar. I feel like Brad Pitt, his win showed us the path for Tom Cruise,

which is that he's famous enough that he did have kind of the minimum amount and made the most of the minimum amount. Every time he had to give a speech, he appeared to be gracious. He had one good joke for every speech, you know, praised his co-stars and collaborators endlessly and then talked about his journey as a person minimally, but effectively I I don't I you know, who knows with judy I don't know what that movie was gonna be good or not

But I think you could if you're famous enough, I think you can do it if you're Mikey madison You have to pound the pavement you have to do interviews. You have to get out there and show everyone who you are Everybody knows who tom cruise is for better or for worse. So i'm not writing it off. That's all I'm saying. Let's talk about Tom Cruise in training, Glenn Powell. So Glenn Powell this week signed up for a firefighter movie from Ron Howard. Ron Howard already made a firefighter movie. It's called Backdraft. It's a solid film. And I guess he wants to go back. Imagine if he made another film about the guy from A Beautiful Mind. And he was just like, he's going again. He's looking at that story one more time. Apollo 14. Glenn Powell, very busy man right now. He this year as the running man, possibly has Huntington for May 24th, though it seems like that's going to go into 2026. He signed up for the untitled J.J.

Abrams puzzle movie. He's got a Judd Apatow movie on deck. He's got a Barry Jenkins movie on deck. Top Gun 3 is being written according to Christopher McQuarrie. And now this firefighter movie. Plus, he's going to be a TV star shortly. This Chad Power show. The forthcoming Chad Powers football show. And there's also talk of a Texas Chainsaw Massacre TV adaptation that you might participate in.

Which you tweeted about from the San Diego Zoo. Did I? What did I say? Didn't you? I just know that Taylor Sheridan is now throwing his name in the ring for that franchise. He wants in on that. I mean, like there's a big like beating war going on for the rights to the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Yeah. I tweeted from the San Diego Zoo. I think so. Or maybe you just texted from the San Diego Zoo. I think it was just a text. It's amusing that you confuse those two things. I don't recall tweeting about this story.

I don't know, it's just like, oh, Sean is with his child somewhere and has an opinion about a movie. You know? Yeah, I don't know if that's what it was at the zoo. That seems unlikely to be honest, given what my experience was like at that zoo. Glenn, overexposed?

Well, I would say... Hold your tongue. From my POV, I wonder if you could have told Glenn Powell this is what your lineup is gonna be. Would he have gone back and been like, I don't need to do a Chad Powers TV show for the Manning brothers? It's possible. I mean, I think you're right.

It sounds the most disposable of these projects. Yeah, it's the horror movie that Dionne Jenoux made before she won the Academy Award. You know, it's the, what is it, the house at the end of the street? Isn't that the Jennifer Lawrence movie where it was like, oh yeah, I remember when she made this in 2014, better get it out soon. She was the winner of the Academy Award

for a Silver Linings Playbook. I think he's going to be fine. I'm happy for him. These are mostly good projects. Yeah. Always a little skeptical of the J.J. I'm happy for him. These are mostly good projects. Yeah. Always a little skeptical of the J.J. Abrams project, personally. You know, you and I are on record on that.

There were set photos from it recently, like he's wearing a vest. I saw a tweet that said, I'm sorry, I can't remember who had this very smart thought. It was Jim Twitter. Jim Twitter tweeted. After he asked you for some advice. Thank you for all your skincare thoughts, Amanda.

Here's a take on Glenn Powell. And it was just like Glenn Powell, like, crosses another job off his Barbie job list. And I was, you know, firefighter. It's good, it's funny. Tornado chaser. I love him. He's the best.

Two Cannes titles going to November 7th. One is Die My Love, the Jennifer Lawrence movie, which we talked about. That movie acquired for $24 million, which that's a lot of money for that movie based on the reviews that I read. The stuff that I read about this movie makes it sound like the play

that Scarlett Johansson is doing in Marriage Story. They're like, we pretended to be otters. And then one otter wore the other one. You're like, what? What is this movie about? I think it's about a woman experiencing postpartum depression, but with also some animal role play, I suppose. And Ramsey never wanted to make a simple marriage story. Not unlike my marriage story in my experience.

So Sentimental Value, the other, you know, big can film from Joaquin Trier is also going to November 7th. You know, I just walked out of the movie theater for 28 years later where I saw an extended trailer for Predator Badlands. That's coming out on November 7th. I'm very excited about that. We just talked about The Running Man. That's also coming out on November 7th. So, that's a busy day. Yeah, it is. I wonder if things will shift slightly. I mean, and also you have to assume die my love and sentimental value will be limited

and then going wide. I think that is likely to be the case. However, The Running Man and Predator Badlands, those two movies have the exact same core demo, which is me and Chris and some other guys. And I even watched the Predator animated. Jim Twitter. Jim Twitter. Or not animated, but they animated, I don't know.

Oh, it was great. Killer of Killers? Yeah, I really enjoyed that. So you watched an animated film, but only because it had Predators in it? I low-key watch animated stuff, but very selectively. And never what society tells me I have to watch. Can I tell you something? By announcing on a podcast that you do something,

it is not low-key. This is important to understand, that that is not low-key. My entire thing is to pretend like that that is not low key. My entire thing is pretend like I'm not on a podcast. How do you find your way there? What's that? How do you find your way there to these animated films? Like what is your decision criteria?

I'm a relatively complete, I'm a completist when it comes to Predator. I know you once acted out one of the films in my office. No one else is there. The other day, Sean, me and Zach went and saw Die Hard with a Vengeance at the movie theater and Zach was relating Knox asking him questions about what he was doing. And he was like, I'm going to see a movie with Sean and Chris. He's like, what's the movie called? He said, Die Hard with a Vengeance. And then I was like, did he ask what it's about?

And he was like, no. And I was like, I really want to explain Die Hard with a Vengeance to Nikes. We're not that far away from that being the case. There used to be these things called payphones. And... And... Will you go full rewatchables when that happens?

Will you be like, in our Picking Knits category? I would have pointed out here, the failure to understand. Do you know Doris Berkus? Okay, so... Okay, one more piece of news, two more pieces of news. Yeah. Three more pieces, but it's one that's not on the doc. Oh, you got one tucked away.

Okay, Doris. First trailer for Springsteen Colon, Deliver Me From Nowhere, which is coming out October 24th, written and directed by Scott Cooper. In case you couldn't figure it out, this movie is about Bruce Springsteen. At a very particular moment in his career, he's played by Jeremy Allen White,

and it is about the conception and recording of Nebraska, his famed sort of acoustic, desolate one-man album. Which is recorded essentially simultaneous to Born in the USA. Prior to, I think right after The River and before Born in the USA. But it's as Jeremy Strong explains in this film trailer, it's what he had to do to heal the world. Yes. First himself. He had to heal himself.

He had to heal the world. And knowing what we know now that the world has been healed do we need this movie? Because we're healed. Fuck yes. So you're fired up. You're ready to go. Yeah. That's great. I wasn't moved. But I was like, first of all, he does a very convincing rock version of Springsteen's moves.

So shout out to Jeremy. This is one of my biggest concerns with this movie is that he looks bang on in the Bourne to Run stuff. Right. But that's not what this movie is about. But that's not what this movie is about. We don't know what this movie is about. Well, I won't spoil what I know about it, but that's not what it's about. You think it's about his dad? I mean, yes, there are flashbacks to his daddy issues.

That was when I was like, uh-oh, I mean, sure, but they put it in the trailer. I think it's about the, a tortured artist conceiving of a important work. And that work is not born in the USA. I think it's about John Landau. I mean, I'm looking forward to Jeremy Strong's work in this film. It's amazing that he's going from Roy Cohn to John Landau. Like what other guru figures can he hop from?

You know, how much Scott's Cooper stock do you have? I think is the question you should ask yourself. I don't have a lot, but I am also, I'm open to this type of movie. And then was also like, uh-oh, when I saw the flashbacks to the, you know, and then sincere Jeremy Strong is a little, little tough for me. And so once he is- So when he's like listening to the music on headphones and crying.

Once he's the voice of God being like, he's going to heal the world, I was, okay. So this is how we're going. That's actually live footage of me listening to Rissolo travelogues. It's just like, I can't believe it. Is there a new one? No. The supporting cast of this movie is pretty great.

Steven Graham, Odessa Young, Paul Walter Hauser, Gabby Hoffman, Mark Maron, David Krumholtz. That's a lot of my hitters right there. Sure. So I'm obviously looking forward to it. I had a lot of angst about A Complete Unknown last year and because I love Dylan so much and that turned out to be false and unnecessary

because that was a pretty good movie. I'm a little more skeptical of this but I have less skin in the game with Bruce. So, you know, we'll check it out. We'll do an episode about it. That seems emotionally responsible. Will you listen to only Bruce from now until the film comes out?

All summer? Sure, not, loves Bruce. Do you have a favorite Bruce Springsteen album I asked Andy this? I'm not getting into this with all of you. You just started clowning each other about Tom of Love and I was like, oh they are. No, it's just a very Andy pick to saynel of Love and I was like, okay, ah.

No, it's just a very Andy pic to say Tunnel of Love. That was Andy's pic. Yeah. Tunnel of Love? It was Andy's pic and I knew it was Andy's pic from like his face. I was like, it's Tunnel of Love. Yeah.

You like called the shot? Yeah. Okay. I mean, I get that as like a move that you would put in print to be like, actually it's Tunnel of Love, but sincerely believe it's Tunnel of Love? Ask him.

It's Bruce Springste him. Okay, anyway. Catherine Bigelow is finally putting a movie out. Speaking of October 24th, same day as this Springsteen movie, A House of Dynamite is hitting Netflix. It is scripted by Noah Oppenheim, who's Chris's favorite former news executive from NBC, and also the author of Jackie and Zero Day. Zero Day.

Which you did watch. How did it conclude? Can we say that now? Did you? Lizzie Kaplan is AOC and she participates in a coup against the president. No, he did not tell me this. He told me this and I broke down laughing.

So Lizzie Kaplan? She's a leftist congresswoman who unites with a centrist congressman played by Matthew Modine to shake America out of its stupor. Okay. Is it possible that it is a foretold document? Like is it in play? What you just described. I fucking hope House of Dynamite is not a foretold document. And what's Bob De Niro doing?

He's a former president who runs a kind of special counsel investigation into the cyber attack. Okay. This is sort of related, this Bigelow movie, because this Bigelow movie is about a missile is launched at the United States. We don't know where it's come from. And now the White House needs to determine who fired it and how to respond. And it's, you know, it feels like a TikTok thriller, not TikTok, the social media app, but a ticking clock. With seas. With seas. Thank you. Well, but. Yeah. app, but a ticking clock. With seas. With seas, thank you. Well put. Yeah, sure.

Idris Elba, Rebecca Ferguson, Moses Ingram, Greta Lee, our boy Tracy Letts, Anthony Ramos, Jason Clarke. First Bigelow movie since Detroit, which is eight years ago. Yeah, right. So, interesting. Close to the same layoff Danny Boyle has had for features, right? It's a good point.

Very, very similar. I think Danny Boyle's 2019 was yesterday. So this is eight years away for a Best Picture winner and one of the signature filmmakers of the 21st century. Pretty exciting. I'm open. I mean, topically, you know, we'll see how it goes. I would imagine this is in the running to be at Venice. I'm excited about that. So you may be seeing it sooner than all of us. Okay.

You know what would be fucking sick? What? If the missile comes from space. Everybody's like, oh, it's a geopolitical thriller. And it's like, no, Martians. Martians shot one right at us. And now you just sell that as to go into space and kill them. That could be that.

That would be quite a swerve from Bigelow's previous work, but you never know. You had a final piece of news you wanted to share. There is a rumor on the internet. Okay, here we go. That. The teaser for the Odyssey is going to be playing before Jurassic did see this. Jurassic Park, Jurassic World Rebirth. So I'm glad you brought this up. So you know what, can I tell you where I learned this?

Where'd you learn it? From my new favorite Instagram account. Hold up, you guys did not respond to my Shrek Instagram that I sent you? That was sent to me and Bobby. I know, but you didn't respond. I've had quite a journey the last few days. I apologize. If you could only imagine what I've been doing in the state of Georgia,

I mean, you'll hear all about it in private. You know what? I can't, which is sort of the problem. Um, okay. So that was a reel by movie watching girls. So shout out to her. Oh, that's your alt. Um, yeah, that's what she knows how to like make reals. Movie watching Alpha Mama.

LAUGHS Anyway, good materialists content over that I don't want to spoil, but it's really good. Oh, yeah, that is. I mean, it was genuinely good. And then, have you seen materialists? Not yet. Okay, well, I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Because of your Marxism. No, I've just decided that I unconditionally support the film. LAUGHS And don't want to see it. Because of your Marxism. Yeah. No, I've just decided that I unconditionally support the film and don't want to see it. We were engaged in one of the best text exchanges of the year with a, with a colleague about the film. I won't reveal who that colleague is, but maybe you can guess out there if you're a listener of the Ringer Podcast Network. So here's the thing I did.

I assume we're going to get invited to a screening of Jurassic World Rebirth. Okay. But in the event that we're not. You've rejected that invite. No, I havebirth. Okay. But in the event that we're not. You've rejected that invite. No, I have not. Okay. I want to see the movie.

I bought a ticket and I have never seen this ticket offered before, but I bought a ticket for an 8 a.m. screening on July 2nd, the day the film is being released. And that I assume we will record based on the episodes that we have coming in the next couple of weeks. So if you would like to join me at the 8 AM screening of this movie at the AMC Americana, we could see the Odyssey trailer if it's not on the internet yet and talk about it on that episode. Oh, that's fine.

I'll try to make that work. Okay. And now that requires waking up early and getting our children out of the house and everything. I can wake up early. I just might be out of the state, but I will try to come back for that. You'll be out of the state. Yeah. Oh, where are you going? To Portland. Again? Again. Yeah. You were just there. Yeah, come back. Okay. But there is also some speculation.

Because I was going to ask you to bring some donuts from... From Portland? No, from all time near your home. There is some speculation that this would be the last opportunity this summer for it to air before a Universal film, I think, or something like that. I believe historically Nolan typically just does those like minute long teasers that have very little footage in there. So, you know, the famous like Heath Ledger doing the Joker laugh in the Dark Knight trailer.

The Dunkirk teaser is insane. It's really good. That's like the ticking. So this will just be you reading the Odyssey in the original Greek with the photos in the movie? Honestly, there's very few times where I've ever been like, we should go live, like walking out of the movie theater, but this is one of them. It's honestly, if you want to talk strategy on the show,

it's better as a standalone piece of content. Okay. You know what? Okay. Let's just let it flow. We're going to let it all flow. Let's speaking of flowing, let's flow into the zombie state. 28 years later. So I've just seen this movie. I have not had a lot of time to sit with it.

You guys got a chance to see it earlier this year. Do you see it yesterday? I saw it yesterday. Okay, I saw Tuesday. As I said, written by Garland directed by Boyle, Boyle's first movie in a long time. Boyle, a filmmaker who I don't I honestly don't know a lot of your thoughts about him because we've only had one movie of his come out since we've been doing the show. And it was yesterday. And we hated it. I just absolutely melted in.

You guys weren't doing the show during Steve Jobs? No. No, that was 14, I think, or 15. I thought it was 15. So, you know, Chris and I have a shared love of a lot of his movies. He's definitely a huge favorite of mine, but he has been in this kind of, I don't

know if he's like an exploratory period. He did some television, you know, in 2012 he did the Olympic ceremony. Like he's, he's kind of been. I think did some theater stuff. He did some theater. Yeah. He's been doing a lot of other projects and in the sort of early to mid 90s, established himself as kind of a lynchpin character who we don't usually identify

with the typical hall of Famers of this show. But I think if he were more active in the last 10 years, his name would come up more. But anyway, this is, you know, he made this 28 Days Later film 23 years ago with Garland. And that came off of him adapting Garland's novel, The Beach, for the 2000 film with Leo, which I just rewatched in which actually Pairs very interestingly with this movie, which I'll get to so this new movie stars Jodie Comer Aaron Taylor Johnson, Ralph Fiennes

Alfie Williams who is really the star of the movie. He plays Spike the young boy at the center of the story Shot by Anthony's odd mantle again This is their seventh collaboration though. I've never seen a movie like this from the two of them. It was shot on an iPhone 15 Pro Max, which I believe is the phone I'm holding in my hand right now. That's the iPhone that I have. But some of the rigs that they use are unbelievable, where it's like a giant ring of iPhones so that they can capture some of the specific action that they're trying to do. And we should talk about the way that they capture the action

because it is pretty extraordinary. You know, in our document here, it says the past movies that have been shot on the iPhone include Tangerine, High Flying Bird, Unseen. Obviously Soderbergh has been doing a lot of work with this. Usually in those movies, it's about the kind of claustrophobia that, or surveillance that you find from, you know, the phone existence.

This movie kind of explodes that whole concept. It makes things massive and wide. Scored by young fathers, kind of a rock hip hop Scottish group. And the story is this, 28 years after the rage virus escaped a medical research laboratory, survivors have found ways to exist amidst the infective. One group lives on an island connected to the mainland by a single heavily defended causeway. When a father and his

son leave the island on a mission into the dark heart of the mainland, they discover the secrets, wonders and horror of the outside world. Amanda, what did you think? It's not that heavily defended, but anyway. That's a good point. When you just think about it. Do you want to start with him? I mean, I'm happy to start. I think you should start. Yeah, well, we know what you think.

In a positive way. I guess it's not as interesting to start with me because I'm there for everything, like besides the spinal cords, you know? And like, two thumbs up for the spinal cords. You mean the gore and viscera in the movie. Yeah, and quite literally, they had many of them. And you saw them being removed in various ways.

And that was cool. I mean, it was gnarly as fuck, but that's the point. But whether I respond to it is about everything outside. It is like, have you created a believable world? Like, do I believe in these characters? Am I emotionally invested? Does it have any sort of ideas or anything to say, you know, how does it look? Does it, you know, is it pretty basically? I thought it was pretty great. I was definitely emotionally invested. I cried. I was mad about

crying and I do want to talk about that. It is a day that ends in Y and so I have some notes on Alex Garland's female characters, but you know, that's okay. The third of them. But you know, infected or not as it turns out. But I thought it was like very moving, like very assured, like incredible and engrossing to look at. Great performances, pretty great setup. Great third act cameo, which not even a cameo really, but we'll get to that when we get to it. So I'm very pro.

Extraordinary. Like I just thought, probably my favorite of the year, one of my favorites of the year up there with Sinners and Warfare and Black Bag bursting with ideas, social ideas about society, ideas about infection and disease, ideas about national identity, ideas about filmmaking and genre. Unbelievable. national identity, ideas about filmmaking and genre. Unbelievable, like every scene I felt like was vibrating with an energy that is really lacking from genre film

or blockbuster films. And I was riveted, I thought it was really funny. I too was brought to the edge of tears. Like I was really moved by the second act or I guess the beginning of the third act. And I can't believe like like, the sleight of hand at this movie. I thought this movie was going to be a warrior movie

about Aaron Taylor Johnson kicking ass. I had no idea that this was going to go, like, fucking full war horse on us. And it's a coming of age story set in, like, a full car environment. It's amazing. Yeah. But also, I mean, there is a lot car environment. It's amazing. Yeah. But also, I mean, there is a lot of that

this or that you're describing, but it's very much a fallen empire movie. It's sort of about like what happens in the aftermath of 200 years of power and wealth. And then this turn towards isolationism. And to have that idea be so obvious on the surface, but then to actually spend time to like explore what it means and the ramifications of people and to watch someone leave the island in the film as the young boy and his father do at the beginning of the film.

And then, and we will spoil this movie, though I think clearly we all highly recommend it. It's definitely one of the best movies of the year to then have another character leave the island too and then see the ramifications of another person leaving and then just try to like reckon with what is trying to be communicated here about the idea of Brexit specifically. But I think around the world is sort of like the fact that they are being isolated from a rage virus. Um, I think like says a lot about how the filmmakers view the

contemporary environment, but the movie doesn't skimp at all on the hardcore genre stuff. There is a kind of elegiac tone to a lot of what's happening and the sadness between the parents and the child. But there's a giant mega zombie with a huge swinging dick in this movie ripping people's vertebrae out. I mean, it is literally the two things that we are always asking for, which is like, if you can give us our genre and then pack inside that genre some deep theme,

which this movie has a ton of, it shouldn't be surprising. Like, I feel like yesterday is the blip. And then when you start going through old Boyle's movies and you're like, oh yeah, they're all kind of like this. They all feel weirdly transgressive. 28 Days Later is about a post 9-11 Western world. Right? Like it is, he's able. Waking up to the destruction. Yeah. Translate like

a moment in time into a genre movie with so much creativity. I thought that like there was a really sly expository dump in the beginning of the movie where they mentioned that continental Europe has like fixed it. Like they're like, they've like, moved on. It's a retcon of the second. Yeah. And it's like titles and they're just like, yeah, the second movie did not happen. But it's also, but it's also kind of like very telling about I think the way Boyle perhaps sees contemporary British life of like, all places that have, like, we self-inflicted, wounded ourselves, and now these other places, you're gonna have to go there to get a doctor.

Yeah, it's an interesting choice to set it in the highlands of Scotland too, and the identity of Scotland inside of the British Empire. That's the beginning, then it moves down into Northeast England. Right, right. The way that the movie is made, it looks unlike any movie I've ever seen. And so I was hoping like maybe we could try to like unpack how they did this thing. I haven't read anything about the production of the movie. I didn't want anything spoiled for me after we saw that first trailer that we talked about

on YouTube like three months ago. Yeah. With the Rudyard Kipling poem. But there's two huge choices. One is obviously shooting it with an iPhone, which gives it this kind of like hazy on the edges and then tight focus, um, in the center of the frame. And then there's the editing style, which particularly in the action sequences is this sort of like, um,, freeze, cut action, which is very strange and takes like a second to get used to

because this is a movie that's largely about like bow and arrow murder of zombies. It looks very like Robin Hood in the first 30 minutes and then kind of morphs into something significantly more disgusting. But I don't know, how did you feel, you know, as someone who doesn't watch these movies all the time. Right.

But I assume you felt something significantly different from your standard issue zombie movie. Yeah. I mean, I had so I watched 28 days later and then 28 weeks later, like in succession this week. That's how I've been spending my time. And you know, 28 days later is also like, this style of filming is very famous. And so it was like very low quality digital cameras in

2002. Yes. Which, you know, serves a story and is very cool. But like, if you're watching it at home on your TV now, it is like kind of borderline unwatchable. It looks like shit. It looks like really, really... I mean, you can get a sense of what they were trying to do with the style and it like clearly is, you know, the style is serving the movie, but you're just like, what am I looking at? Like, how can I see this? Is that Killian Murphy walking across the... Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And oh, that bus is on the side. Like, you know... It did feel very different in theaters. Right, right, right, right. Because in theaters, they struck prints of the digital video. So it was the weirdest looking thing. I mean, I remember vividly. And then when you watched it at home,

it didn't have the same power. Right. But so it was interesting to go from that experience and that style of filmmaking to, like, to iPhone world. And obviously, you can, like, see things a lot better. But there was just a scope to this that like I thought was very beautiful and like does serve the story in terms of it's an isolated island, but like you're like considering like the larger world. So and then the zombie stuff, I just I mean, they really, really like blood. And...

This is way gorier than the first film. Way, way gorier. And it's, you know, I guess I have a quote-unquote queasy stomach about this stuff, but really I just kind of like don't look. The way that I react to things is like, oh, okay, so now we're in the, like, eyeballs are gonna start exploding things, so I'm just gonna look over here, and I just kinda look down. And so I can kinda see it in my periphery,

then I could still see a lot of blood in the periphery. That's kinda the thing, it's like, can you look away and like, no, you can't really totally avoid this one. But even I can tell that it is, you know, it's both gnarly and very impressive. Yeah. I was wondering if it was like purposely done that way

as a sort of maybe not a comment, but like an elevation of the sensory overload that we've experienced in the last 20 years. That like to really be blown away by something like this, you kind of need to go in super high definition video, right up close into the eye of the zombie as the arrow penetrates and then freeze the camera for one second.

Like it felt like the same way that's an aesthetic choice that he made to shoot on digital video to show you like kind of a grainy broken down world. And what would it be like if you tried to capture it on the last remaining camera? That in this movie, it's sort of like's there's literally one character with an iPhone the last iPhone before it loses all of its battery and Part is great

My friend when she'd scallops that was genuinely really funny But these like aesthetic choices are kind of like informing the big ideas of the movie, which makes it more fun and more interesting to kind of unpack in the aftermath, but also just sitting there watching it. It's just, it's more exciting. Yeah. The British critic Frank Cromode said that this film was a combination of Ken Loach's Kez with Cannibal Holocaust. And I thought that was like a pretty, pretty awesome way of looking at it. Not only is it shot in this very distinctive way, but it's cut in the visual language overall is really distinctive where Boyle's cutting in like Laurence Olivier's Henry the Fifth and infrared shots of the infected crawling around the forest., you know, these kind of surreal,

almost like folk horror kind of images of the alpha on the horizon and his minions rising up. And he's playing with a lot of genre, not only tonally, but visually like mixing in all these different kinds of, I don't know, like vernaculars of film that I've really responded to. Yeah, two movies that I thought of while watching it, one was Sorcerer, which kind of like plunges you

into this hellscape and you're just stuck there and you're on a mission to try to get out with your life. And then the other one was The Lighthouse, because The Lighthouse has a kind of similar, it's like an emotional torrent on top of you of all around you at any moment something terrible could happen and similarly, you know, weaving in the folklore aspect of that story and the idea of being like, just on the

periphery of impending doom. But it's pretty audacious for a mainstream studio horror movie that is the third in the series to completely pivot stylistically and to be hitting you with this like like you said, dropping into the infrared, especially going into dream sequences where Jodie Comber's character is eye level in the water speaking to her son through a dream with red eyes.

This is very, I don't know, kind of dark and haunted and unusual kind of stuff. So I was blown away by all those choices. And then the story is a very interesting trio of acts, like very clearly dad, mother, Holy Spirit, you know, like those are the kind of, there's the sacrament is really being explored here all the way up to the upside down cross

that is shown at the end of this film and the bone temple that we explore very briefly. Let's start with the first one. So the first one is a story about a father and a son and the father's teaching his son how to hunt, how to hunt the infected. It's basically a village rite of passage that like boys of a certain age get brought out into the world for the first time. Yeah, and they learn the rules of protecting and what it means to be.

And then there's like a celebration afterwards. It's like a bar mitzvah or a fritlina. Yes, totally. It's like a, and Vikings are referenced. It's very much like the Viking conqueror training their son. I saw some people saying that this section didn't work, but I thought this was incredible. I thought this was breathtaking.

Yeah. It's pure excitement. Aaron Taylor Johnson, always happy to see him. Thought he was very good in this. I mean, I guess it is the most standard, for lack of a better word, of the three. They start you with a pretty much, okay, it's a dad and a son, and they do a great job

at communicating the tension and the expectations that the kid doesn't really feel like he can live up to. And then, you know, then they hunt zombies for a while. So it's like, the movie hasn't totally like turned on its side yet in this act, but I thought it like, it was very emotionally affecting like when the dad gets up to something that maybe he shouldn't get up to, I gasped. I was like, oh, you know, and it's like, come on, that's screenwriting one on one. It's like not surprising, but it has the punch that you need. And then I don't know, those

those slug zombies were really ugly. So it works. And then it lays the foundation for everything that just kind of gets like weirder and weirder as you, in a good way as you go along. I thought that the causeway chase on the way back to the village was like one of the most amazing things I've seen this year. And this kid spikes loss of innocence coming through probably the most universal thing, which is finding out your dad's a liar. And that your dad is like a flawed human being.

And, you know, he comes back and he's being celebrated in this village and he can't get over the fact that his dad is making up stories about his accomplishments. And this is like a very big pub culture thing. Like, I saw a guy out there, six and a half feet tall, I kicked him in the nuts and he's like, no, he didn't. He ran away. That really was so perfectly like staged I thought. I agree. And even just the, I don't, I assume that that causeway is a real place, like a real location.

Yeah. There was a Jude Law mini series that had like a similar premise of like this causeway is only open once a day. And you know, it's like he's on an island looking for someone. It was a couple of years ago on HBO. It's pretty, pretty cool. Yeah. But just visually the way that that's captured is, is remarkable and so propulsive and in the light, in the dark. And also like see the water kicking up is the alpha is chasing them. There's like, there are a number of times where he goes really, really wide with the camera,

but like the overhead shot of seeing the alpha chasing them and there you can see the kind of distance in their footsteps. And then there are so many of those Vista shots that you were talking about, Chris, where it's sort of like, you can feel the camera, you can feel just an iPhone camera moving like this and giving you the, the panorama as suggested on your phone that I think actually weirdly like situated me more in the action than some more recent act. We've been talking about a lot of action movies this year with ballerina and

working man amateur accountant too. There's been a lot of like pure classical action and a lot of it because it's hard to stage these scenes is has so much cutting that you feel like you're watching a whole day's shoot. As opposed to a sequence like this where you feel like you're locked inside of the moment. So I found that really impressive and just fun. I feel like you're right though, it is the most standard.

It's like, it's what you expected the whole movie to be. Exactly. And the fact that it kind of neatly pivots away from that when this boy does lose his innocence and realizes that, you know, something is wrong with his mother and the doctor exists somewhere on the island and that's where that, you know, the origin of the fire on the island that he locates. And I guess that's, is that just like an old man who lives in their house on the island? I thought that was her. I thought that was like an uncle or something like that. Yeah, okay. And he shares the history of Dr. Kelson. And then Heron Taylor Johnson's character,

his father, also shares the history of Kelson. And that is a chilling sequence when he recalls being a young boy and stumbling upon Kelson's menagerie of death. Right. And then the boy decides... That shot also is really... The corpses lined up so perfectly. Again, like... Chilling and memorable. This is small stuff, but I'm like, this is how you stage a movie. Like this movie is pretty expensive and you can see where some of the money is spent.

But like a sequence like that where you're like, yeah, we have like 300 extras and they all have to lay on the ground. Yeah. You know, like it doesn't look cheap or digital or... And then that pivots him to bringing his mother back across the causeway so that he can discover the doctor and find out what's wrong with her. What did you think about Jodie Comer in this movie? I thought she was sensational.

She is amazing. And like I said, I was really invested. As soon as she meets her favorite becomes clear that she's going to I was like really, really upset. Now, obviously, like I am a mother to two small boys. So I was just like, no, I can't. That's horrible. But I think I don't know if it's like a hugely developed character. That's OK.

She in the performance, like I think gives it a lot of life and soul. So I thought she was great. I was, I don't know. When can we talk about like the turn? As soon as you want. We can talk about it right now. Well, I just, you know... It happens very fast.

That she's just like, okay, I guess I gotta go die now. You know? I was like, I think that we would be preparing our son a little bit more for this. I guess it's how... They prepared him with a morphine blow dart. Yeah, I wonder, I mean like... So when it first, when her characters first introduced and her maladies first introduced, I was like,

it's really fascinating. Like, what would you do with untreated depression in a situation like this? Like, I thought she was suffering from something like that. And then as the movie goes on and she has more, like, lapses in cognitive awareness, you're like, oh, it seems like it's more significant than that even. But yeah, like, the sacrifice... I just think that you can't have the Jodie Comer character conversation without the Refinance character conversation.

Right. Well, because of what he says about the momentum or about remembering. It comes before that though, because I think the most important, you know, you can feel, let me go back. I really love Alex Garland's movies that he directed. If you, if I were to lodge a criticism against them, it would be that they are very schematic, conceptually, and that you can feel him moving the characters to help make points. Now I would say warfare and civil war personally, I felt that less than I have in the past, but that he has this like diagrammatic approach to story and structure.

This has that too. A new child is born and so one must die. Like that is really in the, you know, in the literate understanding of genre filmmaking as soon as they, and I do, maybe a science corner is in order for the birth of a zombie child that is not, birth of a child of a zombie mother and uninfected. I can't logic through that very well. Right. I don't, you're not as learned in the ways of the zombie.

The infected. Well, I have, I've seen all of them recently. So actually when I was watching Jodie Comer, I was like, oh, is she infected, but it's like some mutation. Oh, slow burning. Or she is like a carrier, is she infected, but it's like some mutation. Oh, slow burning. Or she is like a carrier, but you know, like some sort of thing. You thought that's what she originally had?

Yeah, I thought that's where it was going instead of where it went. Yeah, so that train scene where an infected woman gives birth to a baby and you see the baby emerging from the vaginal canal, which shout out that. Like, I thought that all that was good. Here's what I didn't like about it. Okay.

Well, number one, it's basically, there's a moment before where you hear this wailing and it's like unmistakable. It's like, oh, great, okay. The one pregnant infected woman that we saw like wandering around earlier is giving birth. Like, you, great. Okay. The one pregnant, infected woman that we saw it like wandering around earlier is giving birth. Like, you know it instinctively. The zombie Virgin Mary. Yes. And so she's the zombie Virgin Mary.

How did that baby stay alive after she got infected? Make it make sense, Alex. Well, they do. We'll get to that. But so she's there, she's giving birth, and she's obviously like in distress because I guess like the rage virus is not an epidural. And Jodie Comer walks in. What? I'm actually just resisting doing Tucker Carlson with Ted Cruz with you. What? You're talking about zombie births? You don't know what you're saying?

How do you know there isn't a zombie epidural? But so, and so she... You want to eliminate all these zombies. Right. And so she's like freaking out and she's clearly in pain and Jodie Comer goes in and like reaches her hand out and there's this moment where it's like, what's implied is like this holy thing or this, you know, amazing thing that is happening, which is like childbirth is like more powerful than the rich. So they're holding each other and they're like connecting

as people who have given, you know, birth and it's like for a moment. Yeah, two mamas. Yeah, find each other. Yeah, we're not so different. Right. And then the baby is born, and then she's like... If only we could stop raging for a minute, we could just get along. Didn't Civil War teach us that? Well, no, this is my problem. And I, like, listen, I... I love that shit. This is theatrical. No, it's fucking stupid. Here's why. No, it's not. No. No, because, like, I like, I have like carried

two kids, so I get to say this is like, you know, I'm glad that I did, but like it has nothing to do with like the preservation of your, your humanity or like some, you know, magical thing, like giving Childbirth? No, it doesn't. And there are like plenty of people on this earth. What do you mean by that?

It just, it's like, it's implied, it's like, oh well, like, you know, like, here comes this baby and this is so special that like, she's not, she's not dangerous in this moment. She's not infected. Like, they can connect as like, human beings or whatever. And it's like, oh, cause like, ooh, childbirth, like how powerful.

You know who agrees with you? That Swedish guy. And I just like, I don't think that that is, you know. I think there's a slightly different way to read it. Yeah. Which is that the act of childbirth is so painful that it would stem the rage for a minute because you couldn't be rage-holding. Right, but then it's like Jodie Comer and her like having like this ooh mama's moment,

you know? I get it, I get it. I can understand why that would be clear. To her point, and we've brought this up a couple of times, I was blown away by how much Garland is in this movie. And it's a testament to his emergence. And it was also like when that was happening, I was like, all right, okay.

It's a very, it's equal footing, I think, between Boyle and Garland. The nature is healing and changing stuff from the beginning of the film is right out of Annihilation. Yep. I mean, men was the setup for the folklore stuff. Definitely elements of men. There's definitely elements of Civil War. I mean, he's definitely got his ideas.

Yeah. His hobby horses. I was texting with someone about this, but it feels like they complete each other. Like, boille without Garland is got, it's a kind of up and down situation. If he's got a Sorkin script, it's amazing. If it's yesterday, maybe not so much. And Garland without Boyle is just maybe a little too like, fuck all people. Yes. Very, very cynical. Yeah. Boyle brings a little bit of humanity to some of Garland stuff. Except for the baby. Okay. Here are my two others.

Obviously like the baby not being infected and Ray finds has a throwaway line about placenta. So that's, you know, at least they put in some science in there. Yeah. I like placenta is pretty powerful, I guess. But, but the placenta is inside the infected person's body. Right. I mean, how does the infection work?

I, you know, they didn't explain that. That's true. Right. I mean- How does the infection work? I, you know, they didn't explain that. That's true. But I agree with you. To your point, I think it's all just fanciful zombie storytelling and I know that, but it's funny to pick the nit. Yeah. And then, well, the other thing about the baby

that didn't even piss me off, but I was like, this is verging on children of men plagiarism at the very end. And I was like, hold on, hold on, can we do this? Crossing the river. Well, crossing the river. And then, and like the last night and her name is, you know, and it's Jodie Comber's name. And I was like, okay, I like that movie too. Yeah. Maybe a stealth homage or maybe a quiet lip-off.

It's true. I guess it is also, like, we all are just retelling the Bible, I guess. This movie to me has deep, deep Christian symbology. Yeah, of course. Of course it does. It starts in a church. Wizard of Oz is in here. Of course.

So then let's talk about Ray Fiennes. Ray Fiennes eventually, mother and son arrive. Actually, he saves them as they are being stalked by the Alpha. They get saved a couple of times, yeah. Is the insinuation that the zombie mother was impregnated while infected by the Alpha? Yes. And so that he was the father and he observed her? I'm curious whether you guys read this as there are two Alphas in the film. There's the one that

gets killed on the causeway. And then there's the other one that's hunting around. I think the idea is that there are more and they're starting to grow and... They're kind of like precinct bosses, you know? Sure, yeah, if that's how you want to think about it. Um, this guy's been watching a lot of Italian crime movies. So, I think that... the finds character is interesting.

Again, a little bit of a schematic, like what if there was a guy who had all the answers that had to fix everything, and also he collected skulls, but it's so beautifully rendered, and Ray Fines, the minute he shows up, the movie, which is already kind of like sitting at an eight out of 10, just goes like, whoop! Like as soon as he starts talking,

because he's just the most dialed in actor right now, he's on a 10 year streak of everything of everything he does is so enthralling. It's almost 30, and also... But it is true. He's in a late style period where... He's like, oh my God, it's Ray Fiennes. Like, now I'm sitting up straight and now it's happening. He's the closer.

He can do the most or the least amount of screen time. It's very exciting to see what he does. He's covered in iodine, which apparently repels the zombies, and he has developed a morphine cocktail that also neutralizes them, which is in a dumber movie, I would be like, this is so stupid. Right. But in this movie, I was like, yeah, that's just something that happens. This is how we neutralize zombies.

This makes total sense. This guy's a genius. And do you think that the reason why he doesn't kill the alpha after neutralizing him the first time is because of the physicians... Do no harm? Yeah, I think so. I think he's trying to co-exist with the infected. I think for our real zombie heads out there, they may be like, you just can't leave. You can't leave the alpha standing there, man. No, and it comes back to bite him. Yes. To some extent. Almost.

Yeah. Almost. Mm-hmm. Um, this is, this is the part of the movie they took on, like, a real Shakespearean quality for me. Uh, I thought... I mean, it literally does a Yorick joke, so... Well, and then there's a lot of, like, Spike is Prince Howl and, you know, like, getting ready to rise up to save England and stuff. Um, but this stuff about death, I thought was extraordinary for a movie.

It was really beautiful. And the idea that, you know, I did the whole idea of like the skulls being like everyone has seen things and heard things and said things, and it's like they have their own story. I thought that the culmination of her going away and the sparks coming up in the air and the music was like up there with like, what do you see in Sunshine as like the high points of Boyle cinema?

Like honestly, ecstatic. I was waiting for the worm to turn. I kept waiting for the like rug to get pulled out from under me at that moment because it is such a sincere and emotionally deep snapshot inside of a movie that is otherwise relentless and pretty mean. And he doesn't do that, but he does give you in the aftermath of that, a kind of coda setting up the next film, which is to me, this is like, how best to put this? Like, how best to put this? It's like putting a chocolate covered banana on top of a completed sundae.

Where it's like, I like a chocolate covered banana. Sometimes there can be a little bit too much sweet. I think some people would say it's like putting a strawberry popsicle on top of it. It's like a completely different flavor profile. That's a better way of putting it. So, you know, eventually, um, the young boy returns the baby to, or brings the baby to the island where he's grown up. Spike returns the child to the village, yeah. Well, in like a, in a little, in like a Moses basket.

Yeah. You know, sitting outside the thing. Yes, a Moses cart, hand-held cart that he picked up from Target. And... A Moses signature baby basket. And Spike, like all great folkloric heroes, must strike out on his own, on his own personal mission

to find himself and to become, presumably, a great leader. Just have a simple piece of fish roasted over the fire. He's hunting and fishing all by himself. He's got his bow and arrow. Zombies lay a siege trap on him. They attack. He runs away, and he is greeted at an impasse by several pastel-wearing, were they Scottish? Ninja, Teletubby, zombie

warriors? Basically, and for a more British savvy viewer, a British Jimmy Savile look alike, who I guess in this timeline would not have been revealed to be a child sex partner. But I don't even know. I wonder if that was meant to be like a wink and a nod. Speaking of I need to have you watched Shifty yet? The Adam Curtis film? No. Okay. So Adam Curtis, the great documentarian has a new film that I watched on YouTube. I don't know if it's still there called Shifty. And it's about kind of like the loss of his innocence,

like the desecration of England and the world in the late 20th century. And the first person that you see in the documentary is Jimmy Savile, who was TV presenter and kind of British pop personality, who was revealed to be a very unsavory character in real life. And when I saw them dressed like him with the bleach blonde hair,

the kind of mop-ish hair and the, you know, the crooked teeth, I was like, so are these guys child predators who also double as zombie warriors? It's, it's obviously a huge record scratch in the middle of this otherwise like very kind of stately and emotional and deep thematic film that goes right into what's the Cameron Diaz, Danny Boyle movie with Ewan McGregor? Life Less Ordinary? Life Less Ordinary. Where like a Life Less Ordinary is a little bit more like,

you know, what if every scene was like, we changed the dial on the radio station? Sure. Like it felt like him just turning the dial a little bit. Yeah, and so the Jimmy character that Jack O'Connell plays has been, it's obviously that's in a preamble section of the film. These children get attacked by the infected

while they're watching Teletubbies, and it turns out that the child who escapes becomes Jack O'Connell character. Throughout the film, there's graffiti on houses and on dead bodies that says Jimmy or Jim, you know, like. The upside down hanging zombie. He is essentially becoming like a kind of evangelical figure on the Northeast England countryside

during this time period. So I thought it was fun. It's obviously the style of filmmaking is very different. I feel like Danny Boyle is a little bit less comfortable in this kind of filmmaking style. I was kind of wondering if Nia DaCosta directed it. Yeah, it doesn't feel like the rest of the movie, that final action sequence.

Because what did you think of this sequence? Well, it took me a minute and I was like, okay, no, that is Jack O'Connell, you know? And then I was amused by that. Then I was like, am I watching Robin Hood? And then... It was fine. Like, it's, you know, it feels completely of a different movie

and it feels like it's setting up the next movie, which in fact we know it is. So it was sort of, it was all very obvious, but I really saw it mostly as a coda as opposed to the third act of the movie. And I was still just, you know, emotionally wrapped up. And also being like, does children of men have like, you know, emotionally wrapped up and also being like, does children of men have like, you know, copyright rights here?

I think the only disappointment I had about that sequence was self created because for a second I was like, he's going to get to the impasse and fucking kill him or if he's going to be standing there like, I did actually think that it's going to rule so hard and I'm so susceptible to the shit. And it wasn't, but it was okay. I thought, I know your mileage is gonna vary on this. There are some people who are like, this left a bad taste in my mouth and I thought it ruined the movie. I wouldn't go that far.

I didn't feel that way. But, um, I thought it was appropriate to make, like, yet another crazy left turn. Because the movie does that so many times. Yes. So, I just watched The Beach yesterday. another crazy left turn because the movie does that so many times. Yes. So. I just watched The Beach yesterday. Yeah. And I had I don't I don't think I had seen it

since I saw it in theaters in 2000. And I was a little disappointed by it. I don't know if you guys have seen it recently. I have not since I don't think I've seen it in a while. You know, Leo season. So, you know, that film is in a way about a lot of the same themes. It's about this kind of quest for safety and isolation in a more perfect place. It's also a subterranean and then not so subterranean cult movie, you know, where Tilda Swinton's

character is essentially like leading this commune, this private community in to their own kind of Valhalla utopia. And this movie kind of has that on the front end and on the back end. It's like the island connected to the causeway is truly quarantined from the rest of the world and traversing across the causeway is a risk to explode your beautiful utopia.

And then the second half of the film is Jimmy, essentially a cult leader, a violent cult leader with his merry band of pastel wearing Teletubbies, slaughtering zombies all across the land. And so I just love this as this kind of like closing loop from the beach, which is where Garland and Will sort of working together into this movie. And the fact that this idea, which in 2000 was clearly meant to be like a reflection of wayward Jan Exers who were like, I don't want to join society.

I don't want to do what my parents told me to do. What I want to do is find my own little corner of the universe and live inside it the way I want to, free of judgment with people like me. And that obviously, that dream was not sustainable here, at least in America and probably not in England either. And now even more so, the whole point of this movie is like wherever you turn, there's a zombie. There's danger around every corner.

Like there's no escaping the realities of modern life. Um, and so I, like, I echo what you're saying about Garland and Boyle, which is like, they just kind of they bring up They just bring up each other exactly exactly. So it's just a very exciting movie Can I throw a couple more things on the fire before we leave? They bet the whole movie on this kid and they won the lottery. Absolutely. He's terrific. He's up there with like Kid from adolescence and in kid performance as I this year. Alcy Williams is his name. Edvin Riding plays a Swedish soldier

who is marooned on the British Isles. How did those guys get there? What happened there? You can see, there's earlier in the movie, there's a scene where there's a patrol boat in the water. And they like, I think even the dad points out like, oh, that's probably French. Oh, okay.

It's the blockade. Yeah. Okay. And there's like a quarantine patrol. And then he explains like we sunk and we wanted to go anywhere but here because no one ever gets off this place. But he brings a very welcome sense of humor and also like a very funny, like, the modern world's like, has kept going while all this crazy shit in these movies is happening. And he's like, my buddy drives for Amazon. I should

be driving for Amazon right now. Like that way I wouldn't be stuck. To prove a point, I joined the Navy. Yeah. And the idea that- And his only fan's fiance. That like, yeah, like that there's a woman out there with lip fillers while the British islands are like coming apart from rage virus. It's a little on there with lip fillers while the British islands are Like coming apart from rage virus. It's a little on the nose, but it's also like Pretty amazing. Yeah, and

So I love that and love the gas station sequence. Mm-hmm. I thought that was really cool. Hell. Yeah Yeah, the missing s yeah on the signage and then the is it the methane the? The butane. The butane. Something, yeah, benzene. Benzene. Benzene. Is there anything else? No, I guess that was it. Oh, the Young Father score. Fucking incredible. I mean, Boyle's like very famous

for having the best soundtracks on all of his movies, maybe barring yesterday, have the best soundtracks. But I thought this was a really inspired and unusual choice to have a band with some kind of like vocal addition, but not defining. Like they weren't just pop songs in the middle of the movie. Like there were long extended sequences of instrumental and then you would eventually hear some singing

but it was all kind of synced very carefully. So you didn't feel like you were getting needle drops specifically. The last song in particular, Pals is my favorite, the one that hits over the closing credits, but I highly recommend people check that out some more. Where does this stand for Boyle? I think this is his 14th movie.

So let's pull up the filmography. You think it's up there? Yeah, don't you? I mean... I think so. I mean... Probably top five for me. I would have to like watch it again, but... Trainspotting, very important to CR, of course. Chalagrave is very important to me.

Um... Steve Jobs is important to you. Steve Jobs and Sunshine. We all like Steve Jobs. Sunshine, a personal favorite of mine. I got a lot of time for T2. T2 is fun. I would take this over T2 in terms of sequels in his canon.

What about, where would you put Trance? I think that's an island that you and I live on. And I live happily there. I drink my times every day. I've given birth to so many takes about trance and its wonderful finale featuring the great Rosario Dawson. I really enjoy that movie as a modern noir. And, but I think it's divisive.

I think a lot of his movies are pretty divisive because he takes these big swings. This is, this 28 years later, it's got a lot of swings in it. You mentioned the birth sequence, the giant dick zombie. We didn't even talk about the Teletubbies and just the kid massacre to open this movie. Child murder. Yeah, that was, I was like, oh, okay.

Shout out to you guys for fucking it out. I was like, oh, that's how it's gonna go. I don't think you actually see any children get. You see them go in the room. There's a lot of blood. And they look so scared and that's how it's gonna go. I don't think you actually see any children get a lot of blood. And they look so scared and that's worse. And their moms get slaughtered. Yeah. But it's them sitting in the room watching Teletubbies and like weeping, where I was like, well, this is terrible.

Shodfree Gang was like, let's go! Oh! Did you ever, like, what do you know about the Teletubbies? Nothing. Nothing. You? I'm familiar with their work. You are? I was like babys know about the Teletubbies? Nothing. Nothing. You? I'm familiar with their work. You are? I was like babysitting when the Teletubbies really like hit their prime. That was a unique time.

Does that have the sort of intellectual heft of Bluey or no? Uh, no, opposite. It's like brain dead. Yeah, but it's like, it is like brain dead to the point that you are reaching like a nirvana of sorts, you know? I think it is. I think that's interesting, but... There is a lot, and reaching like a nirvana of sorts. Oh, okay. You know, I think it is. I think that's interesting, but reaching.

There is a lot and also like a lot of drugs definitely involved in the creation. Oh, the creators. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of that. There's something perfect about trying to literally inoculate your children from the oncoming rage virus by putting them in front of Teletubbies. Like it's a very smart choice. And then neatly closed with the outfits at the end of the movie. I think this could be top five.

I definitely. Where do you guys stand on 127 hours? I haven't revisited it in a long time. You know, I've had an experience to be sure, but I don't need to revisit it, you know? Okay. I watched some Steve Jobs since Tuesday when I saw 28 years later, and Steve Jobs still rocks.

Yeah, should be a rewatchable. Should be a rewatchable. Not on our list. Twenty five or twenty five. Did we consider it? Is there a day? No, no, I guess there wouldn't be a day. No, but listen, you could have made the case for 28 Days Later or Sunshine for to me. Oh, I thought you meant that Steve Jobs was not on our list. And I was like, it was never going to be on our list, but yeah.

But I think I did put it on the long list. Sure. But it can't for it's fine. We'll get into it later. I don't want to spoil things. Cause of Apple. Yeah, that's it. Cause of Apple.

Yeah. Because of its relationship to a female character. Because Amanda only. Yeah. Because of its relationship to a female character? Because Amanda only uses Trump phone now? I was thinking a lot about Kate Winslow's accent while you were talking about Steve Jobs. Oh, the Polish lady she plays? Yeah. She tries really hard.

Top five garland female characters. But he made her the iPad. He made his daughter the iPod. Top five. Oh my God. Natalie Portman in Annihilation. Can you name any of them? The female characters.

Well, all the ladies in Annihilation. All the ladies in Annihilation. Sure. The robot lady, Leisha Vikander. Sure, yeah. Her name's Ava. Jessie Buckley in Men. Yeah. Kirsten Dunst.

Sure. Because she needed to buy that green dress so she could feel like a woman. That's what Kaylee Spaney's character told her to do. She did it for other reasons. She was thinking about uniting the country with her beauty, using her feminine wiles to bring America back together. Reaching across the aisle. Hey, oh, why can't Nancy Pelosi and Donald Trump do that right now?

You know, and give birth to democracy. Am I right? So much. I just really, really dislike you. Yeah. Where's, where's fucking Bernie and the dead Senator Trent Lott, you know, why can't they come together? Infected Trent Lott is the alpha out on the hill. Why can't Strom Thurmond and Jimmy Carter's corpses

re-unite, re-animate, and bring democracy back to this country? Don't spoil Alex Garland's Elden Ring, man. LAUGHS Well, I'm glad you brought that up. So Alex Garland is adapting a video game, Elden Ring, which is a very popular video game that I don't know anything about. And I'm not going to pretend to know anything about. Elden Ring. This is the big thing that...

I know how it's about. I read that online. Okay, all right. Okay, mama. Why'd you say it like that? Because I know she doesn't like that. Because I hate that. I don't like it when someone's selling me something and they're like, hey, mama, you

got this. Or like, hey, mama. Hang in there, mama. Yeah. We got two back towels on the way. Do you mind other nickn. Or just that whole thing. There has been like a whole, like the girl boss mama thing has really happened

in marketing over the last 10 years. Your kids pull ups are on the way, mama. Yeah. Hang in there. You got this, mama. Yeah. It was primarily during prenatal workouts and then anytime you buy any sort of mom product.

Yeah. I've programmed my Alexa to respond every time I order something on Amazon to respond to me as Wayne Jenkins. It's just like, Hey, you know what, big dog, we're sending you that nigger rat. Don't worry about it. Ha ha ha. Wayne Jenkins Alexa is a gold idea.

I honestly, Bernthal should be contacted about that immediately. Um... Have you learned anything about Elden Ring? So, no, I'm like on the third paragraph. It's third-person perspective. Characters, players freely roaming its open world. Yeah. Linear hidden dungeons can be explored.

Okay. But like, what happens? I don't, this is, you know what, when I was listening to you guys talk about Last of Us, which is obviously a show I'll never watch, but you were like, this diverges from the game, or this is what happens in the game. I like...

I just did the research. What are... No, no, no. Not that. Yeah. Like, what is the game? Like, what is... Last of Us specifically has a lot of cut scenes, so there's a lot of like, filmed narrative. Okay. Of Last of Us. So you just... cut scenes, so there's a lot of like filmed narrative. Okay.

So you're really just like watching someone else? But then you have parts of it that you play. So like, and I think what Last of Us does is it puts you in the feet, the shoes of characters that you would ordinarily consider your antagonist. It's like all of a sudden I'm Keela Fever. Oh, okay. Okay. You know, in an open world game, you explore the entire terrain that the creators have It's like all of a sudden I'm feeling fever. Oh, okay. Okay.

You know, in an open world game, you explore the entire terrain that the creators have made, so you're going all over the place that it's made. Well, I'm just trying to... In a way, yeah. Where you have free rein to explore your own. And so you're just playing by like, now I'm going to build a house, and now I'm going to... If that's a feature of the game, I guess so. I don't play any games anymore.

What happened to Alex Garland retiring um I pressed him on that issue and he was like he was like I was not lying it is true I have retired but also I have an idea it was the Tyrese Halliburton cap strain of directorial retiring yeah who do you who do you got in game seven Oklahoma City I'm sorry why are you sorry I just think don't think they're gonna lose at home Okay, you don't have to apologize for that. Um, I Think I find that to be a fascinating industry story this guy who's like theme theme theme in every movie, right? Making a video game film for a 24. So that's like that is where video game film for A24. So that's like, that is where the industry lies right now.

That's, this is the way that we are like exiting comic book era and firmly in video game era. And what was the most recent movie that I, oh, it was ballerina where I was like, this feels like I'm watching someone play a video game. And that vibe, that experience of movie watching, I think will increasingly infect narrative. So, I guess they're like dragons in this?

It seems medieval. It's like Game of Thrones. Well, I read like 3,000 words on Elden Ring, and I can't just be like, okay, like what time period? You read 3,000 words just while sitting there? Well, I was skimming, you know, looking for like proper nouns. You got this,000 words just while sitting there? Well, I was skimming. Okay. You know, looking for like proper nouns or anything. You got this, mama. You got this, mama.

Your copy of Elden Ring is on the way. I was just trying to understand like what does it look like? I could have gotten you Elden Ring for Mother's Day. What a missed opportunity this was. Are you excited for The Bone Temple? Yeah, that's a good way to close this conversation. So, Nia DaCosta is directing the next film. In production currently.

The director of The Marvels and the Candyman reboot. Right. Two films I did not care for. Not an English filmmaker. Nope. Yeah. And this is a decidedly English story thus far. It's an interesting choice.

It can be done, obviously. And it is next year. It's dated for it. That can be done obviously. And it is next year. It's dated for it. That's what they say. They just haven't funded the third one. This movie is- Which Boyle would direct. So what do we know? So it's Spike and- Allegedly Killian, but you would have to imagine there's a lot of Jack O'Connell in

the second one. Right, right, right. Any Rafe? Or he's just there attending his- He leaves the movie alive as far as we know. But that's not the Bone Temple. You have to assume it is. That's what I thought. There's another temple full of bones? That would be weird.

I assumed that that was the Bone Temple, but I don't know. Maybe it's all about getting back to the Bone Temple. Where is our young lad headed? Is he walking across mainland England? Yeah, they're on mainland England. But that's what his intention is to go across the country? I think the island is supposed to be off the water. Because the angel of the north,

that big statue that's out there is up in Tyne, I think. So I think they're supposed to be up in the Northeast. Jodie Comber does a Geordie accent in this film. So I think it're supposed to be up in the Northeast. Jodie Comber does a Geordie accent in this film. So I think it's supposed to be in Northeast. Tyne, you're right. Yeah. So, but so he's just trying to cross the country. I don't know what the...

On his spirit quest. He's not released his itinerary. What would Wayne Jenkins say about his itinerary? He doesn't even know. How can he intend to cross the... He doesn't know what the country is, you know? How can he intend to cross the, he doesn't know what the country is, you know? That's a great point. Yeah, he doesn't. So what's he fucking doing?

It's also funny because there's- He's just going to keep walking until he can't see the ocean. That's what, you know? I felt like his brain should have fucking exploded when he saw an iPhone because he was like, what's a frisbee? Right. And then the guy's like, here's my girlfriend on my phone. Yeah.

And he was like, why does she look like that? So, but you know, they didn't have any service. I'm so glad she looks like that. Do you think this movie is going to be a big success? Because obviously they got the sequel going. This was a weird case where they funded the movie and then Sony bought it, or at least bought the rights to distribute it. It wasn't financed originally by the studio.

I assume that the studio is behind the second one. Do you know what I'm a big believer in right now? Not caring. Old fashioned word of mouth. Oh, yeah. I think that. Oh, yeah. I have not met someone who walked out of this film was like, that sucked. I've I've heard some that was not for me. I've seen some withering critiques of it.

OK, but across the spectrum, people are loving the alpha and what he's swinging with. And I think- Would you let the alpha impregnate you? Answer the question. I do think honestly, Sinners is a really good test case where I think there was an initial like everybody's going to go out and do their part. So the sperm doesn't get-

Oh my God. Is not infected. It's inoculated. Clearly not. Clearly. Yeah. That's a great way of thinking about it. Forget about the placenta. What about those guys, these guys? Shooting something different.

I don't know. I have no idea. Do you know how sex works? Look, if it's like blood born, then it is probably separated and the placenta does kind of close off a wall. And you, like... I would honestly pay $1,000 to watch you interview Alex Garland about zombie OBGYN.

You didn't have the same blood type as your kid. We didn't know that the zombies could get erections and stimulated. They're evolving. They're procreating because it's a natural imperative to do so. But let me just say, I do think that simply They're evolving. Right. You know? They're procreating because it's a natural imperative to do so. But let me just say,

I do think that Sinners is a really good example of like a great word of mouth film. You're trying to steer me off. We fucking asked. I thought it was a good point. You just sat down in my chair for a minute. That was great. I was trying to explore how this fucking zombie baby

got bored. Yeah, I'm like, zombie seed, what do we know? And I'm like. This is a podcast, bro. What are you... I think you're right. Something's happening at the movies, man. Yeah, I know.

People are loving going to the movies. Now, they only want to go to horror movies and kids' movies, but I'm okay with that. It works for all three of us. Well, you know, for its audience, Materialist did get a lot of people to the theaters. Everyone I know, and then everyone wanted to yell at me. They completely tricked the audience by making a rom-com trailer

and got, guess what, put asses in seats. You know what that tells me? Make a real rom-com. I agree with you. Make a real classical rom-com with young movie stars and put it in a movie theater. Am I right? Okay, I accept. One more question. This film was heavily embargoed until the day before its release.

Didn't understand this. I actually think it hurt the movie. I agree. Did not like this strategy. I hope people go see it before they listen to us because the wonder that I felt when I was like, this movie's in that spike, was really cool. Yeah. I mean, fortunately, this is coming out a little later than our episode usually would.

And you know, it does seem like people are excited to see it. It's like tracking pretty well for a movie of this kind, which is exciting. I... I'm very curious to see like what the exit scores and all that stuff are because horror audiences tend to vacillate and it is... I think you can watch this movie and never think of Brexit and it's a great experience. Right. I mean, like it doesn't have to be that,

even though we talked a lot about that in this conversation. But if you go to a movie looking for the ideas, there's so much to pull from. That would satisfy both audiences. I was going to have to ask a lot of guys in the men's room at the Grove and be like, what did you think about that trenchant metaphor about Brexit?

Right, man? So you were for Brexit? You weren't? No, I wanted to stay brothers with the EU. Yeah. Cool. Amanda, any closing thoughts? I mean, I'm really trying to figure out what like the endometrial lining would do, you

know, in the infected situation. So that's, I haven't been listening to anything you said for 10 minutes, but I'm going to have an incredible science corner coming up soon. Solo science corner? So what would you want the theme to be of your solo mailbag? The real you guys, ask me anything about Sean and Amanda. Oh.

Yeah. I think people would want to listen to that actually. What's it really like? Yeah. And what would you reveal? What's one tidbit? It's one of the great pleasures of my professional life. Oh, okay.

That sounds like a boring podcast. That's not good. Yeah. Well. Reminder again, Mailbag, Monday, 800. Asks us questions, movie questions. Please don't send us too many like, hey, conceive of a whole movie and then cast it out. And then also director and writer because...

This is, you've opened yourself up to wanting all this input, but then you want to curate the input. No, no. It's like, I have a few movie ideas and I've shared them on previous Malbag episodes and it's like, you know, I'm out. Are you working about IP theft? No, no, no, no, no. I know it's just like I have already shared all my ideas.

We're not movie creators. Yeah, in previous mailbags. So I don't have any more. So like my ideas are getting bad, you know? Okay. So, you know, a columnist only has so many columns. The CR mailbag has no restrictions. Funny you keep getting questions from doctors.

I should ask some of these doctors about zombie procreation. That would be a great episode. Extend an invitation to one of your doctor friends. To the cast of The Pit. What does Noah Wiley think about the alpha's ability to impregnate a zombie woman? Noah Wiley was definitely like, this is about Brexit. We should merge the world of The Pit with 28 Years Later. That would actually be thrilling.

Those guys would be incredibly useful in this movie. I would also like to not cast any films or create the films, but otherwise, you know, I think it would be useful to talk about movies right now. I think that's a better line of conversation for us. It's sort of like, what has come out this year? What's interesting? What are we seeing?

What do we think is like really happening? Like, I think that's what kind of comes up like anecdotally in discussion, but it's probably better driven through questions. And I think, you know, you're a tea leaf reader. Am I? Yeah, I think so. I think you understand the game. Oh, thanks so much.

That's very kind of you. So, it'd be nice to hear your wisdom. No, I see the angles like you game. Oh, thanks so much. That's very kind of you. So, maybe nice to hear your wisdom. No, it's easy. Like you do. You said that so seriously. I thought you were gonna say nice things only about us. What? Hang on there, mama.

Odyssey is coming next year. I am really excited for the teaser trailer and seeing it with you at 8 a.m. So I need you to come back from Portland. Okay. I'd like to thank you both for recording late on a Friday afternoon. I was awake at 530 a.m. Eastern today and here I am at 330 Pacific. After having gone through 28 years later and then driven quite far away.

Yes, I flew on a plane and then I landed and I drove straight to the Ontario Mountain Village Regal Cinema. How was that experience? Watched this film. It was nice. Oh, good. It was fairly empty. Yeah. At my 1048th screening.

Very hot. Very hot. 15 degrees hotter than out here. Um, and then drove here and sat with you guys and had a great time. So thank you for that. Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. And yeah, we'll be back with a mailbag. We'll see you then.

I was doing the Princess Diana wave because it's about England. Keep that in the episode, please.