The Big Picture - 6. ‘The Hurt Locker’ and ‘Iron Man’ | Mission Accomplished

Episode Date: August 29, 2025

As Hollywood and America look toward a brighter future, two war films explore the long-term impacts of the Bush years on soldiers and civilians alike. Host: Brian Raftery Producers: Devon Baroldi, Brian Raftery, and Vikram Patel Sound Design: Devon Baroldi Mixing and Mastering: Scott Somerville Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One night in January 2002, George W. Bush hosted a movie night's sleepover. He'd only been in office for a year, but those first 12 months had been tumultuous. 9-11, the strikes in Afghanistan, and the looming threat of war in Iraq. That winter, during a weekend retreat to Camp David, Bush invited 20 Republican members of Congress to watch a movie with him. It was a film that had recently become a political talking point, the 1990s-set war movie Black Hawk Down. Once that first bullet goes past your head, politics go right out the window. Directed by Ridley Scott, and based on a book by journalist Mark Bowden, Black Hawk Down was the true story of a disastrous 1993 peacekeeping mission in Mogadishu, Somalia, hundreds of Somalis, and 18. American soldiers, were killed that day.

Not long afterward, the U.S. withdrew from Somalia altogether. Black Hawk Down had been filmed in early 2001 and made with help from the U.S. Defense Department, which supplied helicopters and trained some of the actors on flight simulators. The result was an extremely visceral war movie. At times, you could almost feel the rattle as machine gun fire hit a U.S. Black Hawk helicopter. See two, this is six-eight. We've been hit.

Though the mission in Black Hawk down quickly turns deadly, the American soldiers are strong-willed and clear-eyed, even when the odds are against them. In one of the film's quieter scenes, a Delta Force soldier, played by Eric Banna, explains how he'll talk about the battle when he gets home. He knows the kind of questions he'll get. Why do you do it?

Why do you knowingly go into combat? They want to understand. It's about the men next to him. And that's it. That's all it is. Blackhawk Down opened in December 2001, just as the country was gearing up for war. Some politicians saw the movie as a celebration of American might and bravery.

Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld even attended the film's premiere in Washington, D.C. It's easy to see why Black Hawk Down was championed by the Black Hawk Down. Bush administration. Here was a movie about the power of the military, made with the help of the Pentagon, being released at a time when the president was about to enter multiple wars. After seeing Black Hawk Down, Paul Wolfowitz, a Bush administration official who would help lead America into Iraq, called it, quote, a powerful film. Wolfowitz then added, I think it's good for this time. It reminds people what it's all about. Some also thought Black Hawk Down could be instructive when it came to America's current war.

When Ridley Scott was asked by journalist Bobby Y. Gant, what lessons from Somalia in 1993 could be applied to Afghanistan in 2001, the filmmaker's response was characteristically blunt. Don't underestimate the enemy, ever. Black Hawk Down wound up earning more than $100 million in the U.S. alone. The film may have been about a tragic mission, but after 9-11, some moviegoers saw it as a celebration, however downbeat, of American greatness. The movie gave them a way to make sense of the present by looking at the past.

But Black Hawk Down turned out to be one of the only contemporary war movies released during the Bush years. Audiences can be fickle when it comes to seeing history play out in real time. In the 1940s, after the United States entered World War II, Hollywood raced to produce dozens of films about the conflict. However, in the late 1960s, as tensions started to escalate in Vietnam, the big studios all but ignored that war. The same thing would happen again in the 2000s. The decade began with massive demonstrations

against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. As the years went on, though, those conflicts stayed off the screen. As politically consequential as the Iraq war was, it wasn't a galvanizing kind of war. It was like an unpopular thing in the background. That's Jamel Bowie, a New York Times opinion columnist

and co-host of unclear and present danger, a podcast that covers politically-tinged thrillers in war movies from the 1990s. There are all these other scandals. There's Katrina in 2005. There's lots happening on the domestic side that is occupying people's attention. And Iraq is like it's drip, drip, drip of an unpopular and destructive thing. But that isn't having like a direct impact on most Americans. The same could be said for the war in Afghanistan.

To many Americans, it eventually faded into the... background. I don't think people were uncaring. It's just that, in a country still recovering from a massive terrorist attack, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were overwhelming. After all, these were complicated and long-running conflicts. Keeping up with them required a lot of intellectual and emotional energy. And they were playing out on TV 24 hours a day. So there's a good reason Hollywood didn't want to make 2000s war movies during the 2000s. Honestly, Who'd want to watch them? It wasn't until the tail end of the Bush administration

that a pair of contemporary war films broke through and became must-see events. The first starred Jeremy Renner as an American who gets his thrills by dismantling bombs in Iraq. It's called the Hurt Locker. There's enough bag in there to send us all to Jesus. I'm going to die.

I'm going to die comfortable. The second film is about a very different kind of adrenaline junkie. He's a brilliant weapons manufacturer, were named Tony Stark, played by Robert Downey Jr. After he's kidnapped by terrorists in Afghanistan and sees the damage his weapons can do, Stark reinvents himself as a sort of anti-war hero.

And that is why, effective immediately, I am shutting down the weapons manufacturer division of Starkman. Tony has another job, too, though you probably know what that is. The Hurt Locker and Iron Man didn't have much in common. One was a somber, low-budget drama that wound up winning the Oscar for Best Picture. The other was a high-flying superhero adventure,

one that launched the most successful cinematic universe of all time. But they both forced moviegoers to look back at the wars that had engulfed the Bush era and to consider their consequences. After enduring years of devastation, both at home and abroad, could we still find our humanity, or have we all gotten lost in the machines of war? From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Brian Raftery. And this is Mission Accomplished.

Episode 6, The Hurt Locker and Ironman. This winter, take a trip to Tampa on Porter Airlines. Enjoy the warm Tampa Bay temperatures and warm Porter hospitality on your way there. All Porter fairs include beer, wine, and snacks, and free fast-streaming Wi-Fi on planes with no middle seats. And your Tampa Bay vacation includes good times, relaxation, and great Gulf Coast weather. Visit flyporter.com and actually enjoy economy. In late 2004, journalist Mark Ball embedded himself with a U.S. Army-Border. bomb squad in Baghdad Iraq. He watched soldiers disarm improvised explosive devices, or IEDs,

that were being used around the region. As Bole later told Charlie Rose, this was one of the most dangerous jobs in the military. The soldiers were under threat of being ambushed, or hit by sniper fire. Bull realized that, for the people in charge of defusing these bombs, life in Iraq had been reduced to a single goal, which he described as matter-of-factly as possible. This war is really about finding IEDs before they find you. During his time in Baghdad, Bull kept in touch with a filmmaker he'd worked with in the past, writer-director Catherine Bigelow. She specializes in high-energy dramas about people who are deeply committed to their calling,

whether they're cops, robbers, or even vampires. Bigelow's films include Near Dark, which follows a pack of nomadic bloodsuckers as they fight to survive. She also made the futuristic strange days about a man who hustles other people's memories on the black market. But it's the 1991 hit point break that really showcases Bigelow's interest in people who live on the edge. The movie stars Keanu Reeves as an undercover FBI agent who gets in too deep with a team of bank robbing surfers. One of the criminals, played by Patrick Swayze, explains that he's guided through life by a breakneck philosophy. If you want the ultimate, he says, you've got to be able to pay the ultimate price. He then shares a fatalist bit of wisdom, one that's embraced by many of Bigelow's on-screen

tough guys. It's not tragic to die doing what you love. Bigelow's fascination with men who go to extremes would help lead her to make the Hurt Locker. She'd started her career as an artist, and in 2009, while talking to the Guardian about the Hurt Locker, she described the film the way an artist would. Combat, Bigelow said, was a canvas upon which to tell a bigelow. more profound story. War is a great crucible.

You know, it's defining, it's dehumanizing, it's tragic. Ball began working on a script about a team of bomb experts working in Iraq. The movie's title would be inspired by some slang he'd heard while embedded with the army. A hurt locker, Ball was told, was, quote, a dangerous or painful place. The process of putting together the hurt locker took years. Finding a studio willing to make the film proved tough. Bigelow's previous movie,

an expensive submarine drama called K-19, The Widowmaker, had been a disappointment. And as I mentioned earlier, Hollywood didn't want anything to do with Iraq. In fact, when you look at the handful of war movies released between 2003 and 2008, the first five years of the Iraq War, all of them were commercial failures.

That includes Redacted, a shocking combat drama from Brian DePama, who directed the Vietnam film Casualties of War. Based on true events, Redacted was about U.S. troops who sexually assault and murder a 14-year-old Iraqi girl. The movie was violent,

and to some, deeply upsetting, and not for the reasons you might expect. One man was offended not by the movie's violent content, but by its negative depiction of American soldiers. He protested outside a theater in North Carolina, carrying a sign that said, Support the troops. In a video from his protest,

the man's voice is measured. But you can tell how frustrated he is by DiPama's film. Please don't see this movie, and it looks like not many people are, but understand that this is a bad message to send to America. The backlash against Redacted wasn't especially big. That could be because, when the movie was released in 2007, it opened in just 15 theaters in America, and was gone after a month.

Other Iraq War movies released during the Bush years didn't do much better. Like the 2008 drama Stop Loss, starring Ryan Felipe and Channing Tatum. They play soldiers who come home from Iraq feeling angry and distraught. When Felipe's character is told he has to return to the Middle East to keep fighting, he can't hide his rage. He even lashes out at America's Commander-in-Chief, who remains unnamed. With all due respect, sir, fuck the president. That comment doesn't sit well with his commanding officer, who's played by Timothy O'Elefin.

Fuck the president. Yes, sir. He's not over there fighting this war. He's not there seeing his buddies burned alive in Humvees. Stop Loss was co-produced by MTV Films and aimed at young moviegoers, but it struggled to find an audience. So did another war drama from around the same time. In the Valley of Ila, which was based on an article by Bull, and which told the story of a young American who's murdered after returning home from Iraq.

In the Valley of Ila mostly takes place in America, but the moviegoers, that didn't really matter. By the end of the Bush years, they wanted nothing to do with what was happening in the Middle East. Most people simply wanted to just move on. The Iraq War isn't Vietnam, right? It isn't this sort of epochal unpopular war that does sweep in large numbers of Americans.

That's Jamel Bowie again. As he notes, the feeling of detachment from the Iraq War was felt across the country in the 2000s, including in Hollywood. When you start going through these Vietnam War movies, what you have are a bunch of filmmakers who, in one way or another, have some kind of direct experience with this, right? And so that's shaping their decision to make these movies. It's shaping their approach to this film.

It's shaping the decisions of Green Life these films. But that wasn't the case for many of the directors coming of age in the 2000s. Like, you don't have writers and filmmakers who necessarily have some connection to the Iraq War. Because studio executives and audiences wanted to stay away from Iraq, Bigelow had to make the Hurt Locker outside of the Hollywood system. After being turned down by several indie studios, she got money from a producer who mortgaged his house. Estimates for the film's budget varied,

but the Hurt Locker didn't cost more than $15 million. Not much for a war movie. Bigelow saved money by hiring unknown actors for the leading roles. One of them was Jeremy Renner. He'd been making a name for himself in indie movies and on TV. for years, but he'd never had a mainstream breakout role. Renner would play Staff Sergeant William James, a guy who feels most alive when he's closest to death,

and who's handled nearly 900 explosives during his time in Iraq. After one especially tense bomb scene, and there are lots of them in the Hurt Locker, Staff Sergeant James meets a colonel, played by David Morse. He treats Renner's character like he's a rock star. What's the best way to go about disarming one of these things? the way you don't die, sir. That's a good one.

I spoke like a wild man. That's good. But Staff Sergeant James' methods lead to clashes with his fellow soldiers. They worry that his actions put them all at risk. One of his fellow sergeants, played by Anthony Mackie, finally loses his cool. In one scene, Renner is trying to come down after defusing a bomb. He sits in his Humvee, unwinding with a cigarette.

Suddenly, without any warning, Mackie's character storms up and punches him across the face. In a movie full of explosions and gunfire, the sound of his fist making contact is one of the most startling things you hear in the Hurt Locker. Hey, James. Never turn your headset off again. The Hurt Locker was shot in Jordan, a Middle Eastern country that shares a border with Iraq. Some Iraqi refugees worked as actors in the production. which faced numerous challenges. On the first day of shooting in 2007,

locals threw rocks at the crew, and during the Hurt Locker's 44 days of filming, there were multiple death threats. Even when the mood on set was calmer, the heat was raging, with temperatures hitting as high as 120 degrees. The result of all that tension is an urgent and unstable feeling

that runs throughout the movie. In every scene of the Hurt Locker, you're aware that something could go wrong at any moment. And when it does, it's never quite in the way you guessed. In the Hurt Locker, it's the audience members that wind up getting punched in the face. The movie drops them into a war they'd spent the last few years tuning out. I remember just being really taken with how tense and nerve-wracking it was.

Jamel Bowie. There's not lots of sort of like, we're going to meet these people and learn about them, and then we'll get to a bomb. It's like, no, minute one, there is a bomb, and you're getting a sense of what this entire world that they exist in is. On the podcast, he co-hosts, unclear and present danger,

Bowie looks at 1990s movies like Air Force One and Independence Day. He tries to make sense of what those films were saying, intentionally or unintentionally, about the politics of the time. But when he rewatched the Hurt Locker recently, Bui was struck by how almost apolitical the movie was. Its connection to the Iraq war is more aesthetic than anything else.

You could do this movie about Vietnam. You could do it about the first Gulf War. You could do it about Afghanistan. You could make up a war. It's a totally fictional war. Its concern isn't really the war itself. Its concern is the particular psychology of this

group of men. And the psychology of Vennor's character becomes clear in the film's final moments. By this point in the Hurt Locker, Staff Sergeant William James has returned home to his wife and son. You'd think he'd be relieved to be surrounded by family and out of danger. Away from combat, though, he's adrift. Real life doesn't actually excite him.

When he goes to buy cereal at the supermarket, he just stares blankly at the aisles of boxes. Later in the Hurt Locker, he tells his young son that there aren't many things that really matter in life. By the time you get to my age, maybe it's only one or two things. And the thing he loves isn't being a father, or being a husband. It's working with those bombs.

At the end of the Hurt Locker, he's back in Iraq, walking toward an IED, well aware that, at some point, he might not ever walk back. Bigelow talked about that scene in an interview with 60 minutes. It's clear she saw similarities between Renner's bomb expert and Patrick Swayze's bank robber in point break. Staff Sergeant James is driven to do what he loves, even if it kills him. You know, that comes at a terrible, terrible price for him, and he knows it. But he's incapable of doing anything different.

By the time Bigelow was promoting the Hurt Locker, the movie had been in the can for nearly three years. Her film had taken a long time to get the theaters. It was filmed in 2007, made its debut at festivals around Europe, in the fall of 2008, and didn't open wide in the U.S. until the summer of 2009. By then, Barack Obama had been sworn into office, and he'd announced that American troops would soon begin leaving Iraq. The start of a process Obama called, quote, a drawdown. The Hurt Locker would hit theaters just as the war in Iraq was starting to end. And unlike the other films about Iraq, the movie was a success. Not a blockbuster exactly, but the

Hurt Locker did get great reviews, and it made nearly $50 million worldwide. I asked Jemelle Bowie about this, about why the Hurt Locker broke through when other Iraq War films had simply disappeared. We agreed that it's a fantastic movie, but maybe the Hurt Locker connected with moviegoers because, with the Bush years finally over, audiences were willing to try to make sense of them. I think that there was an appetite at the time for me. may be trying to metabolize the previous decade.

Because you remember in the first Obama year, there's not really a push by the president of Democrats to look back, right, to say, like, what went wrong? It's very much we're going to look forward. A few months after its release, the Hurt Locker was nominated for nine Academy Awards, including Best Picture. The main competition that year was between Bigelow's low-budget war drama

and James Cameron's $237 million smash Avatar. Both were about American soldiers in the middle of a troubled military occupation, one imaginary and the other terrifyingly real. And while audiences were way more interested in Avatar, which grossed billions of dollars and launched an expensive new franchise, Oscar voters chose the Hurt Locker.

Mark Boll won Best Original Screenplay, while Bigelow won Best Director, becoming the first woman to do so. And at the end of the night, the Hurt Locker won Best Picture. At the time, Bigelow's victory was the major story coming out of the awards, as it should have been. But looking back now, that Oscar year also feels like a snapshot of a time that was soon going to fade away. When I spoke with Jemel Bowie about that year's best picture lineup,

we were both kind of floored by how varied the nominees were. It's a really wild list. So you've got the Hurt Locker and Avatar, but you've also got District 9, an education in glorious bastards, precious, a serious man, the blind side, up and up in the air. It's funny, because it's sort of, this list is like, this is, I mean, at the time, you know, people were complaining about the narrowing space for all kinds of movies at the multiplex. But even here, I mean, you have a big James Cameron blockbuster, you have a big, weepy domestic blockbuster in the blind side, you have kind of,

For the record, we both would have voted for a serious man that year. My bigger point is that by the end of the 2000s, mainstream Hollywood still embraced all kinds of films, regardless of size, star power, or genre. Romantic dramas, existential comedies, four-quadrant animated films. They were all part of the average movie-going diet. But a whole new cinematic universe was about to take flight, one that would change Hollywood forever.

It won't take long to tell you neutral's ingredients. Vodka, soda, natural flavors. So, what should we talk about? No sugar at it? Neutral. Refreshingly simple. And so you were one of the lucky ones who graduated from college just a few years before the complete economic meltdown of the 2000s. You know, it's a thrill. It's a thrill and an honor to have lived through that

and to be on the other side of it, yeah. I think you know that voice. It's Joanna Robinson, the host of such ringer podcasts as House of R and the Prestige TV podcast. She's an expert on a lot of things, including the pop cultural movie franchises that exploded in the early 2000s. It talked all the time about the fact that the first Harry Potter film

and the first Lord of the Reagan's film came out mere months after 9-11. And it is not a coincidence what a stranglehold those stories, which were a very boiled down good versus evil kind of narrative, had on our country that was trying to figure out

their way forward in an increasingly morally murky world, I think. And for Robinson, of all the blockbusters of that era, there's one that stands out. Iron Man, to me, feels like the movie of the Bush era. The story of Iron Man goes back to the 1990s, a pretty rough decade for Marvel Comics. The company declared bankruptcy in 1996 and wound up licensing the film rights to some of its biggest characters, Spider-Man, X-Men, The Fantastic Four. Marvel Studios was not founded yet, and so this is Marvel trying to make a profit off of the IP characters that they have. Iron Man was also up for grabs during that decade, though he was hardly one of Marvel's best-known heroes.

In fact, when I was reading Marvel Comics growing up, I remember thinking Iron Man was kind of a stiff. I mean, he did have a cool suit, and a lot of money. But he also struggled with alcohol and relationships and all that kind of stuff that when I was a kid, I didn't really appreciate. Though I got to say, I definitely get those issues now. Anyway, in the 1990s, Hollywood repeatedly tried to get an Iron Man movie off the ground. Different studios own the rights to the character at different times.

And several big names were rumored to be involved. Tom Cruise, Nicholas Cage, Quentin Tarantino. For years, there were whispers and announcements that an Iron Man movie was coming. all to no avail. You know, it bounced around and no one could really figure it out. In the early 2000s, though, a producer named David Maisel

had a meeting at Mar-a-Lago with Ike Perlmutter, the owner of Marvel. A few big Marvel movies have come out recently. Some good, like Spider-Man and Blade, and some very, very bad. David, by the way,

was motivated by the Ben Affle, like, Daredevil, which he hated, and was like, we can do better. And he's like, we're leaving money on the table, you're burning your own brand by putting out these subpar movies. Let's make her own movies. Let's take control of it. So I'm going to simplify a lot here. If you want to know more, you should just go read Robinson's

book, MCU, the reign of Marvel Studios. But basically, this is how Marvel Studios was born. Maisel made a deal with financial giant Merrill Lynch, which agreed to invest $525 million in a slate of Marvel movies. The catch was that the film rights to a lot of Marvel's beloved characters were already claimed. Maisel's like, this is what we've got to work with. Characters that were definitely considered B-listers and C-listers at the time. So Captain America, the Avengers, Nick Fury, Black Panther, Ant Man, Dr. Strange, Hawkeye.

These were all kind of nobodies in the comic book world to a certain degree at that time. It seemed like a great deal, at least for Merrill Lynch. They were getting into one of the 2000's biggest growth industries, movie franchise. If things went well, Merrill Lynch would reap the rewards from a series of hit movies. But if Marvel Studios, which was technically an indie at that point, couldn't make half a billion dollars back with four movies, Merrill Lynch would get the rights to those characters. And that included Iron Man, who didn't seem like the kind of hero who could bring in hundreds of millions of dollars.

They did this fascinating focus group in 2005, where they asked people about their awareness of Iron Man. It was near zero. By the way, this was a focus group of kids. And once they found out what Iron Man does, they got a lot more interested. After the kids heard that it was a flying robot who could shoot laser beams out of his hands. And the kids were like, that sounds amazing. Marvel heard that response and decided to go forward with an Iron Man film.

The character was now considered Toyetic, a hero who would hopefully inspire all kinds of merchandise. So they're like, we can move it. It's easier to move an Iron Man action figure than it is to move a Captain America action figure. So we're going to do Iron Man who shoots laser beams out of his hands. In Hollywood, few people believe Marvel could have a big screen success with a B-list hero. Expectations for an Iron Man movie were low, which, in a way, gave Marvel a lot of freedom.

The studio hired actor John Favreau, whose biggest director, directing credit at the time was Elf to oversee the film. And for the title role, Marvel hired an actor who, at that point, was considered the industry's top underdog, Robert Downey Jr. Now, I don't have time to get into all of Downey's troubles in the late 1990s and early 2000s. It included jail time and a struggle with addiction. He'd long been considered one of Gen X's best actors, and audiences always rooted for him. But when Iron Man was cast in the mid-2000s, Downey wasn't exactly a huge draw. Still, the actor had done a great screen test as Tony Stark.

And at that point in his career, Downey didn't cost a whole lot to hire. Favreau wanted him, but not everyone else was convinced. The risk-averse New York execs were like, this is an insurance disaster waiting to happen. So Favro went around the suits. He leaked the news that Downey was in consideration, and the internet responded incredibly favorably, and that was like sort of the tipping point

to get the New York execs to sign on Downey. Even with Downey on board, though, Marvel still needed a workable Iron Man script. Initially, Iron Man had a number of credited screenwriters, and then actually when it got down to it, they made it as this sort of slapdash, let's put on a show, indie movie, and we're kind of writing script pages on the day.

In the original comic books, Iron Man's origin story takes place in the jungles of Vietnam. That's where the wealthy weapons maker Tony Stark is injured, kidnapped, and forced to create a powerful super suit. Fabro's movie updated the action to war-torn Afghanistan. As Iron Man begins, Stark is demonstrating his latest missiles for members of the U.S. military. He's been running Stark Industries ever since his father's death, and he's an excellent showman. His sales pitch even includes some very bush-like bravado. They say the best weapon is one you never have to fire.

I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it. That's how America does it. And it's worked out pretty well so far. Stark and his U.S. Army escort soon come under attack and are nearly killed by one of his own company's missiles. He's abducted by a group of terrorists called The Ten Rings and forced to build a deadly missile.

Instead, he creates the Iron Man suit and blasts its way to freedom. The action scenes in Iron Man are fantastic, thanks in part to the fact that, like Black Hawk Down, the movie was made with the help of the U.S. military. We interviewed the Maine consultant, and he said something at the time about like the Air Force is going to look like rock stars in this movie. After he escapes from captivity, Stark returns to America a changed man. He's seen the devastating effects of his weapons up close in Afghanistan. So Stark calls a press conference and announces that he's getting out of the war game.

He's had an awakening about the toll of the last few years, an awakening that millions of others were having in the late 2000s. I saw young Americans killed by the very weapons I created to defend them and protect them. And I saw that I had become part of a system that is comfortable with zero accountability. A journalist then asks, What happened over there? I had my eyes open. I came to realize that I have more to offer this world

than just making things that blow up. Now, of course, Tony and his suit managed to blow up a lot of things in Iron Man. He has to do battle not only with the Ten Rings, but also a powerful Stark Industries executive named Obadiah. He doesn't want Stark Industries out of the weapons game, which has made him very rich. Obadiah is played by Jeff Bridges.

But if you close your eyes, you can almost hear Dick Cheney talking as Obadiah explains his rationale for staying in the missile business. What we do keeps the world from falling into chaos. Moments like that make Iron Man feel like a direct response to the Bush years. And according to Robinson,

the movie initially had more to say about America's role in overseas wars. There was a scene in the original script that had the, or a version of one of the many versions of the script, that had the Ten Rings organization show Tony Stark various creative weapons and say,

Reagan, Clinton, Bush, like basically who are the presidents who got these weapons into our hands? Ultimately, Marvel decided against getting too specific about the politics of Iron Man, which makes sense. After all, they wanted the film to make a lot of money.

They're still thinking of this movie as one of our four chances to pay back Merrill Lynch, the half a billion dollars that we owe them, so it needs to be broadly, commercially, you know, a hit. Much like the Hurt Locker, Iron Man tells a story about the effects of the war on terror without using too many proper nouns.

The movie never mentions 9-11 or Al-Qaeda or the Iraq War. In fact, in Iron Man, nobody even says the word Afghanistan. It only appears on screen. It was entirely possible to watch this movie and barely even think about the real wars going on overseas. The needle that they try to thread in Iron Man is let's make a story that's reflective of our time without trying to get too political, too actually political, right? Iron Man threads that needle so carefully, you might not even notice how strangely contradictory the movie is.

It's a film about a man who realizes he's stuck in a system that causes destruction, and he makes amends for that by going around and creating more destruction. But hey, at least he's beating up bad guys, and doing it in very cool-looking ones. ways. That's probably why Iron Man is still my favorite Marvel movie. Like all great blockbusters, it's trying to sell you something and tell you something at the same time. And sometimes, it doesn't even really know the difference.

Released after years of drawn out battles and aimed at an audience that desperately needed some escapism, Iron Man turned out to be something else altogether. An anti-war movie full of awesome war scenes. Is this U.S. military propaganda? Yes. Is it a harsh critique of, you know, American being the architect of its own disaster? Yes.

And the fact that it's all of those things inside of this extremely entertaining and, you know, genuinely winning love story and a story of fathers and sons is a tremendous accomplishment. As Robinson notes, Iron Man both reflected and questioned

some of the messages Americans have been told over and over again during the Bush years. But I like that it is both reflective of what the messaging of America was, which is this is a battle of good versus evil, support the troops, like all the other things that were going on, this jingoistic

era, while having inside of it a reflection of the dark reality that American culture was sort of turning its face away from in many senses at the time. And I think that to do both inside of a comic movie, is wild. Absolutely wild. Also wild? The response to Iron Man. The movie opened in May 2008,

just as George W. Bush was in his last full year as president. It made about $100 million worldwide in its first weekend and wound up earning more than half a billion dollars in theaters. They were going to almost pay back the Merrill Lynch loan with Iron Man alone. You know, they were almost out of the woods just right away. Still, you can't measure Iron Man's just with numbers. For one thing, the movie turned Robert Downey Jr. into one of the world's biggest movie stars. And at a time when independently owned studios were going under, the rise of Marvel Studios gave Hollywood a much-needed success story. Not that the studio remained indie for too long. In 2009, Disney bought Marvel Entertainment for a whopping $4 billion.

Yet maybe the most lasting legacy of Iron Man. the one we're still feeling today, is that the movie launched not only the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but also countless other wannabe cinematic universes. As Robinson mentioned earlier, the franchise era was already underway in the 2000s. Spider-Man, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Shrek, but Iron Man supercharged Hollywood's obsession

with remakes, reboots, sequels, and spinoffs. Executives had always been making these kinds of films, but after Iron Man, it seemed more. more and more, like, that's all they wanted to make. The major studio original films that thrived in the 2000s, movies like Michael Clayton, Zodiac, 25th Hour, would become all the more rare in the MCU era. So would scrappier indie films, especially tough indies like the Hurt Locker. Think back to the year 2000, which we talked about in the first episode of this series.

Even though there were lots of franchise movies then, you also had massive original films like Castaway, Aaron Brockovich, Unbreakable. Gladiator, meet the parents. The major studios were making all kinds of movies and chasing all kinds of audiences. But less than a decade later, it became clear they were mostly interested in IP. What do you see is the good and the bad of the Iron Man effects

in the last like 20 years or so? I think that the Iron Man beginnings all the way through Avengers Endgame will, no matter how you feel about it, stand the test of time is one of the most astonishing accomplishments in Hollywood blockbuster storytelling everything that they achieved there be it and you've got a lot of things under that tent you've got Black Panther you've got Guardians of the Galaxy like you've got just like a lot of like high highs and then you've got some medium uh to lows you know in in the mix there

or the dark world we forever don't celebrate you know like there's a mixed bag there so I celebrate that, absolutely, and I love talking about these films. I regret that it came at the cost of the mid-level, quote-unquote, adult drama, or however you want to describe it, because I feel like why not both? When I found out my own? When I found out my... friend got a great deal on a wool coat from winners, I started wondering. Is every fabulous item I see from winners? Like that woman over there with the designer jeans. Are those from winners? Ooh, are those beautiful gold earrings? Did she pay full price? Or that leather tote? Or that cashmere sweater?

Or those knee-high boots? That dress, that jacket, those shoes. Is anyone paying full price for anything? Stop wondering. Start winning. Winners, find fabulous for less. When I first started working on this show, I made a list of all the Bush-era movies that evoked the weirdness and chaos and scary shittiness of that time. When I finished, I had easily 75 movies, way too many to fit in just a few episodes. As a result, I had to cut a whole bunch of crucial films, films like Stephen Spielberg's War of the Worlds, starring Tom Cruise as a dad trying to keep his kids safe during an alien attack. When War of the Worlds came out in 2005, it was hard not to watch a movie in which entire buildings get leveled and not think about 9-11.

Even the movie acknowledges the fears of that time. What is it? Is it terrorists? This came from someplace else. What do you mean like Europe? No, Robbie. Not like Europe. I also couldn't find room for one of the era's most intelligent horror movies.

George A. Romero's Land of the Dead, with Dennis Hopper as a greedy one-percenter at war with hordes of angry Americans, and even angrier zombies. Land of the Dead taps into the kinds of fears moviegoers had after 9-11. Fear of outsiders, fear of their fellow citizens, and fear that as bad as things were, they could get even worse.

In a world or the dead are returning to life, the word trouble loses as much of its meaning. Those movies would have to go from my list. So at a lot of films that, early on, I couldn't even imagine cutting. The Dark Night, Team America, World Police, United 93, there were just too many essential bushyer movies to include.

I bring all this up to point out that when you dig into the movies from that era, you realize that writers and directors were scrambling to make sense of that strange time, just like the rest of us. They may have been limited by genre or by commercial restraints, yet they managed to make countless movies that, years later, capture the anxiety and uncertainty of the 2000s, even if sometimes just by accident and many of my favorite movies of that era

no matter how entertaining also serve as warnings the threat of power mad politicians that's all laid out in the Manchurian candidate the dangers of unchecked corporate greed that's in Michael Clayton and the long-term aftershocks of combat those play out in both the Hurt Locker and Iron Man

but if those films were warnings we didn't necessarily heed them In the year we were making this show, a divisive candidate steam rolled his way into office, the country experienced devastating extreme weather events, and America became involved in an unpopular war in the Middle East. You may have listened to that Anchorman episode about a broken media system,

or the chop shop episode, about the struggles of immigrants, and thought to yourself, huh, yeah, that sounds familiar. All of a sudden, it's starting to feel like the early 2000s, all over again. Maybe these kinds of backslides are inevitable. After all, as Ellis reminds me, every time I watch No Country for Old Men, you can't stop what's coming.

But my hope is that, at the very least, the movies we're getting now, and in the near future, will help audiences understand what it's been like to live through these bizarre times. In the meantime, I'll do what I always do when things get weird. I'm going to the movies. This show is reported, written, and hosted by me, Brian Rafter. The executive producers of this podcast are Juliet Lippman and Sean Fennyson. Story editing by Amanda Dobbins.

The show is produced by me, Devin Beraldi, and Vikram Patel. Fact-checking by Casey Gallagher. Copy editing by Craig Gaines. Talent booking by Katz-Belain. Sound design by Devin Baraldi. Mixing and mastering by Scott Somerville. The music you hear in this series, is from Epidemic Sound and Blue Dot Sessions.

Art direction and illustration by David Shoemaker. Extra thanks to my friend Scott Brown for helping me kick around ideas for this show and for helping me remember the 2000s. And thanks as always to my wife Jenny and to my kids. Thanks to all the ringer talents who lent their voices to this show and to everyone at the ringer

who's helped me make these over the years. And mostly, thanks to you for listening. I don't know.