The Big Picture - ‘A Haunting in Venice’ and the Top 5 Haunted House Movies

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

Sean and Amanda review Kenneth Branagh’s third Agatha Christie adaptation, ‘A Haunting in Venice’ (1:00), before expanding their thoughts on haunted house films by sharing 10 of their favorites in the genre (45:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, media consumers. I'm Brian Curtis. And I'm David Shoemaker. We're the hosts of The Ringer's Press Box podcast. Twice a week, we have a free-flowing conversation where two old, old friends talk about media and sports and a little politics. Plus interviews with guests like John Krakauer

and Jamel Hill. Funny stuff like the overworked Twitter joke of the week. Join us every Monday and Friday on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I think that's right. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Agatha.

On today's show, Amanda and I will discuss Kenneth Branagh's third Hercule Poirot Agatha Christie adaptation, A Haunting in Venice, which creates a nice opportunity for us to discuss our top five favorite haunted house movies. But first, a little bit of news out of the Toronto International Film Festival. You know what? Let's hold on a second. How are you doing, Amanda? I'm well. Okay, good. This is weird because you and I just spent like 10 minutes having like a serious heart-to-heart about our late 50s. Right. To early 70s.

And what we hope for. That's true. No boats. You really like to pull the curtain back. Yeah. You don't want any artifice. You don't want performance. You want to say this is what's really going on with everything.

What's that about? At some point, it's just like filling time because you cough me off guard, you know? And we were, we've already done the how are you, you know? We were relating deeply at 9.30 on a Monday morning. Yeah. And now we're going to talk about Toronto. Exactly. How are you, Sean? Good. I had a nice weekend.

You did. Thanks for asking. Yeah. I did note over the weekend that some awards were given out. A TIFF. Great segue. Thank you. Just steering it back on. Yep. That's what I do. This is how I drive the car.

Very steadily and only going forward. Okay. American Fiction, the core Jefferson feature debut that we talked about with Adam Neiman last week, did in fact win the audience prize. You and Neiman had sensed that in your Toronto Spidey sense. Yes. And the vibes on that movie were very good. Now, this is relevant for a number of reasons.

One, I was already kind of interested. I was very interested, honestly, in that movie in the first place. But two, that prize has become a real bellwether for the Best Picture nominees historically. 11 of the last 11 audience winners have gone on to be nominated for Best Picture. Now, when we got back from our festival journeys, we didn't have American fiction in our top 10. Now, I think maybe we have to. Yes, we do.

But it hadn't been released yet. Yeah, it's not our fault. It's not out until November. It's a kind of dramedy starring Jeffrey Wright about creation, race, identity in the 21st century. That's all we really know about it. Second place in the People's Choice, The Holdovers, a film that I did have in that top 10. And I feel very strongly about that it will do very well

because it's clearly playing very well, especially with the older contingent. A lot of people like Alexander Payne. You haven't seen it yet? I know you have some doubts. I don't have doubts. I like Alexander Payne. Okay.

Especially when he's making movies about young women having issues it's just sort of like a that is not what the holdover exactly that's what i'm saying i know it's like an older guy you know a pirate looks at 40 r.i.p jimmy buffett by the way yeah you know i know your guy yeah uh i'm grateful for everything you gave us yeah i don't have a huge opinion on the man to be honest with you i just you know you know who's a big Parrothead? I think we've talked about this. My dad, you know, late, late arriving Parrothead. So he and I did not,

we spoke this weekend but we didn't talk about Jimmy. Should we go see Taylor Swift era's movie at City Walk and then go to Margaritaville? I might need to go to Margaritaville first.

That's fine with me. Okay. Sure, we can do that. Okay. It's the parking's sort of involved. I actually saw the film we'll be discussing on this podcast at CityWalk. I had an entire CityWalk experience, which we'll get to shortly.

Second place, historically, pretty good spot for Best Picture nominees, too. Parasite, Marriage Story, One Night in Miami, Power of the Dog, Call Me By Your Name, Roma, all these runners-up in the past, they were all Best Picture nominees. What did Parasite lose the Audience Award to? That's a really good question because that's also the Marriage Story year.

Yeah. So let's take a look. This is quite funny. So in the year 2019, the film Jojo Rabbit defeated Marriage Story and Parasite. I remembered that Jojo Rabbit won the Audience Award, but I didn't remember that it was that year. That's Toronto. That's really funny.

That's very, very funny. The third place winner this year was The Boy and the Heron. Okay. This is the latest film from Hayao Miyazaki, the acclaimed Japanese master of animation. I've seen this film. That's why we didn't discuss it on our last podcast. Okay. Were people angry that we didn't discuss it? Someone asked why i didn't mention it okay but i did i have seen it i'm of course a big

big big fan of miyazaki um when will we discuss miyazaki when i see it will you see any other miyazaki movies because i think it's a really hard gonna be hard to talk about this one and not in the mcu like it's all connected a way no I know but in references yeah of course sure how many I really think they are so not your vibe and then you're just sitting there

like how many like how much further can I like dig myself and how many I can curate some how many would you like

what if I curated three for you and I said I feel like these are the three critical films you should watch what are they so they're Spirited Away Ponyonyo, and what's the third one?

I would say in this equation, Spirited Away is a must. Maybe Howl's Moving Castle and The Wind Rises. Those feel like the three that are the best to prep for this. Okay. But like, you know, My Neighbor Totoro, that's my favorite. Right, of course. I love Ponyo. Yeah.

I like Porco Rosso. Do you think Knox will like them? I think it's a good time to try with Ponyo. Okay. Ponyo. Yeah. I like Porco Rosso. Do you think Knox will like him? I think it's a good time to try with Ponyo. Okay. Ponyo went over well with Alice. Okay.

But The Boy and the Heron is a lot. Just like Spirited Away would be a lot for a little kid because they're really phantasmagoric and they're very creative

but they're very strange movies. This movie is much like that. I don't want to say too much more. I thought the reception of The Boy and the Herrem was a little mixed also out of Tiff. Oh, great. Which is notable. So, you know, usually when he puts a movie out, it kind of gets the five-star stamp of approval almost immediately.

I will see these, but I think that you should have Andy Greenwald on to talk about them. That's a great idea. Because he has been badgering Chris for weeks on the watch. Are you saying should we do a host swap that week yeah and then chris and i will talk about and just like that and the crown okay and i don't know anything else that chris has been up to do you think chris wants to do that yeah i think so too okay okay so that's i know andy wants to talk about miyazaki there is the answer to your when will you talk about this. But I will. Your answer is I won't. I didn't say that.

I said that I would. It's just that's four movies in the span of like a month and a half on addition of all the other movies that I need to see for our podcast. Yep. December 8th is when The Boy and the Heron will be released. I know, but it's the holidays, man. You know, we've got a lot going on. I just can't. What's going on? just can i what's going

on tell me i just what else you have to do i just don't know it's like what if i just made it like an ongoing life project to discover this work an ongoing life project how old are you when are you gonna get started how much longer can we wait? I just, you know, like... It means Lockie's going to die. You're going to wait until he dies? I know, I know. Maybe. I don't know.

Oh, my God. Art lives forever. Isn't that what you're always telling me? Especially, can I borrow your DVDs? Do I? Truth be told, I don't own any of those films on Blu-ray. Why? Because there was an Amazon-only, like, set that collected all of them together that sold

out very quickly when it went on sale and it has not come back. So they're all available, I on max okay i think you can watch every studio ghibli movie on max okay so and is that like an acceptable you know i think so for you i think no i think you should acquire a print and see each film in 35 alone in the theater if vidiots did like a sunday, like kids welcome Miyazaki series, I would, Knox and I would go every week. I will recommend it to my friends there. Yeah.

I think that's a really good idea. And the kids have to be able to run around. In the run up to maybe over the Thanksgiving weekend or something, you know? Well, not that weekend because I won't be here, as you know. In the weekend after Thanksgiving. Yeah. For Amandaonly purposes, we'll get all the great works of Miyazaki on screen.

Just do it on a Sunday afternoon. What am I supposed to do with my child? You know, after nap time, we'll just roll up to the edge. I don't know, give him some love and attention for crying out loud. I did. Just look him in the eye and say, thank you for blessing me with your life. Did we tell you about how he just plays in our car? Oh, I went to that place.

He just sits in the front seat. Yeah, but then this weekend, he figured out how to turn on my car because it's a button car. Oh, I went to that place. He just sits in the front seat. Yeah, but then this weekend he figured out how to turn on my car because it's a button car. Oh, that's treacherous. Yeah, wait till he figures out the gas pedal. That's going to be a real problem.

What's getting bumped by American fiction out of the race right now? You think it's one of the European films, the arthouse films that I was trying to suggest? Probably, yes.

Anatomy of a Fall, maybe? I don't know. I think, I guess that that requires a lot of patience. There's this true crimey element to Anatomy of a Fall that... You think it's going to play? I think it will play a little bit wider than the, you know, the traditional thoughtful import would usually play. Zone of interest? No.

That's like I think I know but that's about important things in addition to apparently being a masterpiece. I still haven't seen that one. What's the third one

on our list? I don't know. All of Us Strangers? Yeah. But that's getting pushed big time by Searchlight so Tricky thing with Searchlight,

they got poor things in, all of us strangers. Yeah. It's a lot of work. Speaking of studios pushing things, the other huge news out of TIFF, just this morning, Monday morning, was that the film Hitman, the new Richard Linklater, Glenn Powell,

Hitman dramedy satire? I'm not quite sure what the tone is. Haven't seen it. Just got picked up by Netflix for $20 million. Now, this is the biggest acquisition out of TIFF. It's the biggest acquisition of the year. And it's been a very dry market in the acquisition world. It's been a very complicated time in Hollywood, of course, because of the strikes. This strikes me as a way in which Netflix is able to flex its power over the other studios. Yes. Because they are very cash rich right now at a time when many of the competing studios

are very cash poor. And so they have money to spend on a movie like this. They have money to spend on a movie like Woman of the Hour, the new Anna Kendrick film. Right. And so they're in this great position. And I've noted here for you that based on what I was researching,

they still have 17 original English language films yet to premiere that will come out in 2023. than every other studio. So they do not appear to be as nervous about the lack of star power around their releases as other studios. So they're just driving into it. It's fascinating. I mean, they haven't confirmed that Hitman will be a 2023 release.

Maybe they wait for March. We don't know. It doesn't really seem like it's playing as an awards film. It would be smart, though, to package it with anyone but you. Yeah, I agree. But that's one where i'm just as we

noted there's no trailer yet you you want stars out there hey happy birthday to sydney sweetney by the way how old did she turn 26 i believe maybe 27 but i think it was 26 and she had a party did was it maga themed or no but i did note it i i don't know it was kids wearing like night glow things so when you say kids do you mean 26 year olds or like 9 year olds I know

26 year olds so 26 year olds are kids to you now yeah don't you think I don't know I feel like you maybe now

the rest of the year will be you staring into the void like I stared into the void for 6 months sure but listen I listened to guts by olivia

rodriguez several times and it fucking rules and so i was like i still i still have it i can still connect to the youth when they are really bringing it so your version of having it is liking songs written by 23 year olds yeah but understanding that they're really good because most of the time I listen to songs written by 23-year-olds and I'm just like, no, you're a child and you don't have it. But she has it. So we spent some time together this weekend and we were talking about Olivia Rodrigo.

And then last night I watched the video for Get Him Back, which I was just like, why don't we have music videos anymore? I don't know. The Oxys fans have been asking this for like a year now. I just feel like music videos were one of the most coherent articles of media that we ever had. Obviously, they still make music videos. Right.

It's not that they don't exist. And some of them get tens, hundreds of millions of views. But for the most part, they significantly lack the stature in our culture that they used to, especially when we were kids or even before we were born. But I was watching this Olivia Rodrigo video, which is kind of a riff on the movie Multiplicity in some ways. Great. The Michael Keaton film.

Yeah. A great reference for a 23-year-old. That's right. I'm not sure if that was the direct inspiration. Do you think Olivia Rodrigo is on Letterboxd? Maybe. I don't know. Maybe.

Probably not. But you could i want to say just to just to drive your guys's point home even more olivia rodrigo is actually 20 which is like vastly different than 23 right like that is like a big three years but showbiz 20 you know right she was disney channel respectfully i also want to say i just just you know casually reminding you guys i'm 27 yeah no we know one year beyond being a child according to say, just casually reminding you guys, I'm 27. Yeah, now we know. One year beyond being a child, according to the Landis metric. But Bobby, what is your spiritual age, do you feel? Ooh, great question. Putting me on front street here, probably like 40. Yeah, I think that's right for you. Really into baseball, really into three-hour movies. How often do you think about the Roman Empire? Like never. Yeah. This trend missed me. Although then someone pointed out

that a alternative world version of that is how often do you think about Robert Moses? And I think about Robert Moses like every other day. All right. How often do you think about the Roman Empire, Sean Fantasy? In the context of my daily life?

You didn't see this meme? No, I know. I'm trying to answer your no no no what is your special six-year-old on the internet actually that's not true i do yeah i do think about its magnitude sometimes you do but like how often like maybe once every three months okay like wow they really had something cooking there yeah have they let it all go it's a damn shame yeah okay kind of you know shades of the post brady patriots really to me you know some some similar vibes right now you know so you'd like to say

you're you're pro-imperialism pro-conquering i didn't say that i didn't say that i i appreciate the way in which they built, but they built. You know? You said they had some things cooking. Yeah. They had a lot of things cooking. Yeah. Like enslavement and war. That's what they were cooking up.

I'm not saying it was good, but it cooked. And an alphabet. Sure. There was an alphabet. There was an entire system of learning. Yeah. There was currency. There was aqueducts

they did so many things um proud of them kind of like netflix feels a little bit like netflix honestly when we look back that's good that was it was that it was like a b like a solid b i gotta say rodrigo is really good it It's unreal how good it is. Really good. I loved the last album too, but I'm a little unnerved by 20 year olds that are that good. I liked the last album, but I was like this is a little unfinished or just like a little young for me. You know, I could feel the age

divide and then this is just absolutely spectacular. Yeah, rock solid pop song writing. Great production. I mean, it's also, it's been much written about and noted. There's a real kind of millennial thirst trap thing going on with the sound of her music

and the way that those songs are produced. They sound like songs that we grew up with. That we listen to, yes. So that's a clever hack. If she comes by it honestly, I don't even really know.

I mean, I know she likes those acts that are cited to her all the time, but the records are really good. And she is, I think, intriguingly been like opposed to or kind of followed taylor swift in an interesting way like there is yeah well they're not quite in conversation with each other but there's something interesting going on you know about like the alleged feud i do yeah yeah so there's all that which like i can't tell how much

of that is real and how much of that is, like, internet projected. It feels more like the latter. And, sure, but Taylor Swift is in some ways, like, entirely internet projected and that's her savvy and she, like, feeds on it. So, you know, it could be both. She's kind of like, um, I'm going to try to give a couple of examples here so it doesn't seem like I'm making a declaration. She's kind of like LeBron James or Donald Trump

where like you can't talk about the thing that they're in without acknowledging that they dominate that thing. Yes. It's just like anybody who is a young musician

especially a young woman especially a young woman writing about relationships. True, yeah. It's kind of like there's Taylor Swift. And then there's every, yeah. You know, it's just like

there's Vivek and Nikki Haley, but then there's always Donald Trump. You can never not talk about Donald Trump. That was a high wire act, but you nailed that. That was a high wire act. Yeah, that was good. I appreciate it.

I'm not saying Taylor Swift is Donald Trump. I just want to be on the record about that. Okay. I just mean in the landscape of music, she dominates. That's what I mean to say. She does. How do I get to a haunting in Venice from this conversation? Take me on a boat trip.

Things available in movie theaters? Soon or not soon? Well done. Well done. Yeah. Tickets sold? Taylor Swift has sold more tickets than A Haunting in Venice already? In fact,

I thought the film was going to be number one at the box office this week and we were going to be like, we're talking about the number one movie in America today and then the receipts came in and it turns out The Nun 2

actually finished barely ahead of A Haunting in Venice. I haven't seen The Nun 2. Have you seen that one? You know, I skipped it. I see.

This is the third film that Branagh has directed out of the Agatha Christie adaptations. It is once again written by Michael Green. This one is adapted, as we mentioned last week, from The Halloween Party, a 1969 novel that Christie wrote. One of the later Agatha Christie novels. This film stars Branagh, of course, as Poirot, Tina Fey, Jamie Dornan, Kyle Allen, Camille Coton, Jude Hill, Emma Laird, my girl Kelly Riley, and Michelle Yeoh. Here's a brief summary of the plot of the film. Ten years after the events of Death on the Nile, now retired and living in self-imposed exile in the world's most glamorous city, according to Amanda at least,

and just two years after World War II, Hercule Poirot reluctantly attends a seance at a decaying haunted palazzo. He soon gets thrust into a sinister world of shadows and secrets when one of the guests is murdered. I don't know if I would say glamorous. Okay. I mean, there was-

What's the most glamorous city in the world? Wow. Okay. Paris sort of jumps to the top of the list, but even Paris is like a little old I don't know

I think Venice is just really old you know and it like is sort of sinking into the sea which they even make a joke about in the film so

that doesn't really connote like total glamour to me what about Moscow I don't know I've never been okay

wow you made us believe that and that you're not a double agent uh most glamorous city in the world i don't i mean new york it's hard to be new york new york is a wonderful city it's it's close paris is fantastic what about minsk st petersburg i don't know whether a cold city can be truly glamorous. I see. Okay. So you mean like Boca Raton? You just have to be very bundled up, you know?

Just at some point, it's just everyone's a giant blob wandering around. That's how I feel every day. Let me ask you a question. Did you enjoy Haunting in Venice, rather? I didn't have a bad time. I went by myself on a Saturday night at 7.30. I asked our friends. I tried to go with your wife.

She was already going with you. I tried to get Chris and Ryan and his wife, Phoebe, who are like, you know, horror fans, love spooky season. And I was like, hey, does spooky season start early with a haunting in Venice? And that was like a hard no. They were nice about it, but the answer was no. Their suspicions were correct. Their suspicions were correct. Their suspicions were correct. So I went by myself on a Saturday night

after the kids went to bed because we did actually. We hung out. You went home. Knox went to bed. I went to the movie theater by myself. I expected to be

the only person there and it was like half full so that was nice. Okay. Interesting. And it was okay but it's I I, nah.

It wasn't that great. You know, A Murder on the Orient Express and Death on the Nile were the two films that preceded this. Even with the first film, which we had already seen a version of when Sidney Lumet directed it in the 70s, there was a feeling of like, why do we need this? Right. Even though on paper, obviously, you love Agatha Christie. My wife loves Agatha. I like Agatha Christie. wife loves Agatha I like Agatha Christie I'm not a I'm not made of stone um but there's felt something very kind of

perfunctory about the first two the second one in particular which I don't think we even had a chance to really dig into on the show we didn't because it came out right before I went on leave right um that an absolute disaster it looked bad so bad. I mean, there were many issues, including the fact that Armie Hammer was in it and they tried to edit around it after the revelations or the allegations. And, you know, that was sort of a mess. But it's set in Egypt. And except in the case of the movie, it was set in front of a green screen. Yeah. That was like the green screen from your local middle school.

Like, I don't, what's going on? Do middle schools have green screens? I don't know. Like, maybe like the, you know, the AV department. Sounds like a great idea. I just, I can't express what low quality visuals. Well, like Murder on the Iron Express, there's a pretty good 1970s adaptation of Death on the Nile. It's wonderful.

John Gehrman directed. My wife loves that movie. You love that movie. You know, Mia Farrow, Angela Lansbury, Maggie Smith. Like, it's a good Peter Ustinov as Poirot. Right. And also filmed, like filmed in Egypt. So they are climbing on the pyramids and they're riding on horseback past the Sphinx or whatever. So that film, I don't know if it was considered a disaster, but it was not very good and it did only okay business coming out of the pandemic.

I was very surprised to hear that there was going to be another one of these movies. Then I saw the trailer and I got interested because, course I do love this kind of a film. I do love a kind of gothic mystery with a supernatural element. You know, when we talk about our favorite haunted house movies, I mean, these are really some of my favorite movies of all time. And this movie feels particularly indebted to a couple of movies that I absolutely adore. So I was very intrigued. That being said, I'm kind of a snob about horror. So if you're going to dip your toe in, you're going to dilettante your way through it. I'm going to be a little bit cranky about it.

I'll give it this. I thought it looked very good. It did. I thought this was the best looking of the three Branagh Poro films. Production design. There's a lot of attention paid to the kind of like hard Dutch angle. Yes.

You know, we're feeling like uneasy and abstract because the way the camera is set, we're moving through this very creaky old palazzo in Venice.

I find the performance style in these movies to be extremely strange. And the way that Branagh is directing his actors as though they are kind of

like they are putting on a play and playing for the cheap seats in a way there's something very overly expressive about what every actor is doing that I found this through all three films that feels very odd now I don't need a murder mystery to be naturalistic

or expressionistic, but there is a kind of declarative, I'm in a bad Tennessee Williams feeling. Yes. That's funny. That, to me, is one of the better choices that he makes because it is just in keeping with the source material. Did you read the John Lanchester piece that I made you read? No, you texted it way too late.

I texted you like five. Yeah, but then I had to watch a bunch of haunted house movies. But I mean, can't you just read one thing? It wasn't even that long. Anyway, there's a wonderful piece by the writer John Lanchester in the London Review of Books.

It was released in 2018, I believe, but you can also listen to it in podcast version. You couldn't make time on your drive. I had to listen to New York, New York with John Jastrowski. He already had to say about the Jets. Okay, they lost, right? They lost in dramatically poor fashion. Right, but they lost to the Cowboys.

They did, yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry, I guess, for you. That seemed really, really sincere. Thank you. Anyway, it's a great piece about the appeal of Agatha Christie. And, like, why is she so successful and why are these books so successful because they're not like um pieces of great writing from like a

sentence to sentence standpoint and they are in some ways very predictable they feature this detective who is completely absurd and like what what is the appeal it's very smart we can talk more about what the appeal is but one thing he notes is that there is like a a level of theatricality or like artifice to all of her stories it's like you know you're in an experiment it's like okay we all got to do this together and we we all we all know the rules here right that there needs to be a certain number of people in a closed place there are going to be three deaths and then you're all going to be gathered in a room and the person is going to like reveal what happened and that there is like almost this self-awareness is what helps sell

some of like the absurdity um you you all know you're on the ride so anything that like gestures that kind of we're all making this a little bit of a you know this this is theatrical to your point about the performance but that makes sense to me, does that work with a horror movie? Like, no, it doesn't. So I understand how those two things conflict in this movie in particular. Yeah, that's interesting. I do think a kind of

over-enunciated hysterical style sometimes can work in that kind of genre movie. The person who I thought acquitted herself best in this movie was Michelle Yeoh. Sure. Who's, I will just say,

screen time was more limited than I expected in this movie. But she's someone who's really at home in genre movies. You know, she really made her bones working in this kind of thing. And so when you're asked to do something and she plays a medium, a kind of psychic who, you know, manages the seance, she's comfortable going for it. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there are a few actors in this film, some of whom are young, some of whom are not so young, who I just didn't really seem as nearly

as comfortable to me. The one who really jumped out was Tina Fey. Right. Who is playing a kind of, kind of a stand-in for Agatha Christie herself.

Kind of a stand-in for like a Rosalind Russell type, like fast-talking, smart gal from the 40s. Right. She's, she's an author she plays this recurring

character ariane the oliver who like writes mystery stories based on quara but even there like built into the story are levels of kind of self-awareness and almost self not like self-parody yes tina fey though is just not doing screwball yeah i. It's just very strained. Like you can really feel the seams of her performance. And she's a critical character to this movie because she is sort of like the entry point for Poirot to reenter the world of investigation. And so she is constantly like bantering with him

or propping him up. And then of course she becomes critical to the telling of like the execution of the story itself too. And she's just miscast, you know? I love Tinaina fey i think she's hilarious i'm a huge fan of her comedy 30 rock is like one of the goat sitcoms ever she's like all wrong for this i completely agree the only thing i'll say is that i was talking with a friend of ours whose teenage daughter was like oh i want to go see that because tina fey's in it yeah I get it. So I get why, but it completely took me out of it as well.

I get it. I know I can see what they were up to, right? And it even had me interested when I saw her in the trailer. I was like, okay, that's a kind of a stretch. I had seen someone online say that this was a role that felt like it was designed for Julia Louis-Dreyfus and that she didn't do it. Yes. But even there, that... You don't think it would have worked no who would you have

liked to have seen i was thinking i was trying to think of this yeah i'm i'm trying a british person pops into my head because there's just there are a fair number of like tacky americans and agatha christie emma thompson um yeah but then, that's complicated on a number of levels. Okay. Kate Winslet. No. Okay. You're just naming British people?

Yeah. I do like Kate Winslet, but no. Letitia Wright. She was in the last one. Oh, yeah, she was. He likes to try to subvert your expectations. Like, in the last film, the now publicly destroyed Russell Brand appeared, which was a very odd choice for that film.

You know, obviously, Armie Hammer, not ideal. But in the first film, I don't know if you remember the murderer's row on the Orient Express. Quite literally. But it's Penelope Cruz, Willem Dafoe, Judi Dench, Johnny Depp, Derek Jacoby, one of the greatest actors of all time,

Leslie Odom Jr., and Michelle Pfeiffer. I had forgotten that Michelle Pfeiffer, she plays the Lauren Bacall part, right? Really important part, yeah. That's a wild cast for that movie. I don't know. I mean, when we started this project, the Kenneth Branagh project, it was remaking Murder on the Orient Express, which I believe won Lauren...

Who did it win an Oscar for? I know, I think it won Ingrid Bergman an Oscar? I think that's right. Okay. I think that's right. Is Lauren Bacall in Murder on the Orient Express? I'm pretty sure. The original?

Yeah. Okay. But, you know, a star-studded, not quite that, like, hallowed, but like a celebrated film from one of the most successful novelists of all time, made by Kenneth Branagh, who is a great adapter of literary pursuits into movies. Like, why not show up for an ensemble? You know, it made sense. You mean like Thor. Literary pursuits. Yeah, yeah exactly some of his great works i guess technically that is an adaptation certainly and he certainly

puts a lot of shakespeare some respect on stanley and jack kirby's name yeah yeah yeah yeah um and then it was like just okay and we're on our third movie that we're like that was just okay. And. We're on our third movie that we're like, that was just okay. What's going on here? Old people, you know. The movie did okay business. But I, it's for old people.

And that's okay. Old people deserve things too. Were you ever scared? No. Not even a little bit? No. This is the thing. I was thinking about

our Exorcist 2 conversation. It's Exorcist 4, but okay. Exorcist, you know, the re-exorcism. The exorcist colon believer. Okay. I was thinking about that. And I just, I could see it if you guys take me. And I don't think I'll be scared.

I don't believe in the supernatural, so I don't get scared. I've seen you get scared. By what? I'll save it for off mic do you feel that you have matured in your ability to handle this kind of material? no

I think that I've just clarified that it's a difference between being scared and not liking it and I just don't like it I'm just like this is annoying I want this to end,

but I'm not scared. Were you scared about, of Hereditary? No. Okay. When was the last time you remember being scared in a movie theater?

You never saw Skinny Marinky Coward. Yeah, because Chris made it sound like the most boring thing in history. Yeah. And I wasn't really with him on that ultimately.

Okay. When was the last time I was scared in a movie theater? I don't remember. I remember being scared by Scream when I watched it when I was 10. Okay. And I was scared by the Blair Witch Project, another movie that I saw as a teenager at home. Blair Witch was really scary. Scream was not scary. Blair Witch was really scary. I mean, again, I was 10, so.

Okay. Or maybe I was 12, but whatever. Did you think this was a good mystery? No, that's the problem. Yeah. Is that it's... And I don't know whether that's, like, the fault of the adaptation. Mm-hmm.

Or whether that's the fault of the mystery itself where the reveal just like isn't that exciting. They do, I think, a fairly faithful adaptation job where it's like, here's the setup. Then you meet the cast of characters. You hear their sob story or their backstory and you learn their possible motivation there are a couple more deaths and then it's revealed it's pretty quick it's like 90 minutes there's absolutely there's very little added on and that is like the building blocks of an agatha christie story and the one of the pieces the john lancaster, what he identifies is that like, they're all just formal experiments, you know,

and it's that formula. And, and then it's just like, what can you do with it? Can you put everybody on a train? Can you, you know, and how wild can the solution be?

And I don't want to spoil all the Agatha Christie novels, but like many of the mysteries are very inventive and sort of famous in their solutions. And this one's not that inventive. It's rather pedestrian. Yeah. And also it feels

like it is attempting to pay homage to a lot of those movies that I'm thinking of. You know, Rebecca and Gaslight and these movies that look and kind of feel

like this film, but don't have quite the ingenuity or the atmosphere that is essential to making a story like that work. So, of the three films that he's made, we've got 12 people trapped on a train. We've got 12 people trapped on a boat.

And we've got 12 people trapped in a palazzo during a storm on Halloween. What should we do next? Where should we go? Where do you want to be trapped? Are you talking about Agatha Christie movies or just adaptations? I don't really want to know where you want to be trapped in your personal life. I'm good on that.

You should tell me where you want the next Agatha Christie adaptation. I would like them to do Evil on the Sun, which they also made. It was after Death on the Nile, but it's still Ustinov. I've seen that one. So remind me, what's the premise of that? Well, they're stuck on

like a Mediterranean villa, like a holiday. Oh, okay. That's why you want to see that. Yeah, of course. That's fine, yeah. Well, but it's a good mystery. And the, I don't know, mystery. And the setup's good, and even the motivations are slightly better.

And then the way the murderer pulls it off is sort of inventive. So that's the one that I would pick off the top of my head. I don't understand why there's not a more contemporary version of And Then There Were None. There is. It was a miniseries. Oh. Yeah. Was it BBC?

Yes. And it's in the last five years. Okay. And it was very beautiful and pretty creepy. Who's in that? I don't remember. Let's look right now. I can think of two film adaptations.

There's a 1945 version that Renée Clare directed that is pretty famous, that I think was a pretty big hit that starred Walter Houston, Lewis Hayward. And then in 74, there was a big one with Richard Attenborough and Oliver Reed and Elka Summer. Like that also seemed like kind of a big movie at the time. And that was my introduction as a kid to Act of they i think we read that book in school and that is

more people trapped in a house yeah that's like the very famous standard that's one of her first books right 1939 and if i guess it's like middle of i guess it's not a poirot right so that's why it's right it's not a poirot that's and that's probably why we're not seeing this it's not a Poirot, right? So that's why it's not a Poirot. And that's probably why we're not seeing this from Brana. It's not franchisable. Yeah. Interesting.

It was 2015 and Charles Dance is in it. Oh, shit. Yeah, and Sam Neill. Oh, keep going. Give me more names. I don't recognize.

Two guys I love. I don't recognize the rest of the names. Can you just say what if I know them? Well, I guess Miranda Richardson. Of course.

Yeah. Maeve Dermody. I don't know. Now I'm just reading names. Aiden Turner. Catherine Bailey. I just, you know. I don't know who those people are.

Some lovely British people. It's pretty creepy. Maeve Turnaby, did you say? Dermody. Dermody. I see. Should we change Alice's name to Maeve Dermody? Yeah.

That's good. I think Maeve is a nice name you like that name yeah it's okay I mean I like Alice better

do you think there's any Maeves listening out there right now like don't say anything bad do you think it's Maeve

or Maeve I mean that's one of Maeve you know what people can say their name however they want you really don't

like to be told that you were wrong about something I've noticed that about you when I'm right but I also have a great history of being like you know what I was wrong about that when I've noticed that about you. When I'm right. But I also have a great history of being like,

you know what? I was wrong about that. When I actually accept that I was wrong. Yeah, ask Zach. Like I celebrated history? I'm actually really good when I am wrong

to be like, I'm really sorry I was wrong. That's not one of my skills. No, that's true. That's the problem. Do you think Branagh will get another one of these films?

I have no idea because it's not like the economics of the last one made any sense for a third movie. Right. And it's not like this one blew the doors off the box office this weekend. But I don't know. Maybe if like every grandparent rents it when it's available on premium VOD. I find these months to be very frustrating from the movie world experience. Now, obviously,

we're supposed to have challengers like this week. This was supposed to be the challengers episode of this podcast, which is very frustrating. So it wasn't going to be like a complete desert.

And there's some interesting stuff. You know, we haven't seen the creator yet. I just saw Dumb Money. I'm looking forward to talking with you about that. But it does feel like

everybody's kind of holding their chips for October. And this is a real like mid-month programmer directed at 62-year-old moviegoers and 62-year-olds don't go to the movies as much as they used to. So it just kind of feels like

the air slowly coming out of the balloon with moviegoing after a really exciting summer. And so that's kind of a drag. It's also not like October is as stacked as it was. You're right.

So are you emotionally preparing yourself for that? I got Killers of the Far Moon to talk about. Yeah. I'm good. Yeah.

Okay. And then I got Fincher after that. That's true. I'm good. It's going to be fine. I mean, I'm going to be fine. It's just we reach this time every year

on the calendar with September 2. And so to remove the most anticipated movie of the month is disappointing. Have you ever been to a haunted house? Do you believe in haunted houses? Let me start there. That's actually really important. Long pause. I was thinking through it. I mean, I don't really believe in the supernatural, but I do believe in like a spiritual. How do I? I believe in bad vibes,

you know? So. Okay. So elaborate on that. I think that there can be homes or places or people or things where it's just like this energy is off. Like there's just it's not really happening here. Bobby, you said that you believe in Satan last week on the pod, which I appreciate your honesty about that. Do you believe in the supernatural?

I kind of like I'm really conflicted about it because i know some people feel so strongly like a person who has had a supernatural experience and i look at that person and i'm like how could i deny your truth right then on the other hand uh i'm skeptical that the human brain might be you know creating some anxiety mechanisms to deal with trauma and in their lives so i i'm on the fence i'd hear an argument on either side okay rough flip-flopper energy there from wax um i didn't know part of this job was committing to the belief in the supernatural one way or the other you know like to the devil last week you put me on the spot the you believe in satan and you believe in ghosts first of all i never said i believe in satan yes you did what did i say you did you straight up said you believed

in satan did i yes yes if you can find me saying that i'll let you play it but i really don't First of all, I never said I believe in Satan. Yes, you did. What did I say? Yes, you did. You straight up said you believed in Satan. Did I? Yes. Yes. If you can find me saying that, I'll let you play it back. I really don't remember saying that. I asked you both, but I don't know if I shared my opinion. I think I very kind of like performatively was like, how dare you defy Satan? But did I say I believe?

I don't think I did. Do you believe in Satan? I'm an atheist. What are you talking about? Why would I believe in Satan? I'm not an atheist. I'm agnostic ultimately. But I don't spend a lot of my free time thinking about these kinds of things because i was

completely disillusioned being raised in it right so uh the supernatural i do not believe in however i love films like this and i can be i can have my have my feelings turned by the power of a good story, but I do feel that most of the films that do this well are actually exactly what Bobby described, which is the human mind seeking answers for coping with a feeling. That's what every one of my movies is. Right. I mean, the best of these movies are really about that. The kind of manifestation of angst, frustration, sadness, curiosity, confusion,

resulting in seeing apparitional forces. Mm-hmm. Sean, you grew up near Amityville where Amityville Horror takes place. I did.

On Long Island. I did, yeah. And it's kind of like a birthright to believe that that's real, right? Like, that's Long Island culture right there. So you're denying

that famous moment in Long Island history? Yeah, because like, I think that those people just bought a lemon. Like I think they bought a bad house and they were like, there's ghosts up in here. And it's like, meanwhile, they have a leaky roof. Yeah. And the floorboards are a little old and the door hinges are not tightened. And then all of a sudden they're like, yo, there's demons in my house.

Like settle down. There's no demons in your house you're just bad at real estate you know I've been there dog it's okay someone should have

wrote you into that movie you know there have been like 25 adaptations or like reimaginings of the Amityville horror house right most of them are

truly insane and bad first one's okay first one's not on my list is that on your list I didn't look Amityville yeah no

okay it's okay I forgot to pick one but I have my list. Is that on your list? I didn't look. Amityville? Yeah. No. Okay. It's okay. I forgot to pick one, but I have a list of honorable mentions. Okay. That's great. What do you think makes a good haunted house movie? You got to have a good house.

Like a nice house? It just has to be a memorable house. Just like in, you know, a Nancy Meyers movie or something. It's a major character. The fourth character is this creepy haunted house. And I guess you wrote... Would you like to read your crazy addendum that you wrote here? Yeah, I have a very specific round rule. I know, but it's like, imagine opening the document on a Sunday night,

just trying to share some thoughts about detective fiction. And being confronted by my creativity. I didn't even get to talk about Venice in the movie, but whatever. We barely see it. In this house the whole time. Yeah, there's a lovely kind of tour at the end. And I saw my hotel and I saw the very... You don't own the hotel.

You stayed there one time. I saw the hotel and I saw the very own the hotel you stayed there one time I saw the hotel where I stayed and I saw the awesome corner bar literally called the corner bar where all the cool young Venetian people were having Negronis that maybe they were okay they were like five dollars and we went there as well Bobby that's when I sent you... Did I send you the picture of me next to a canal with an ingrown? Yes. No, that was a different canal actually. But I thought of you at this canal.

Just imagine listening at home, Amanda sitting alone in Venice, just taking photos of her drink and chips, idly watching passersby. Yeah, it was great. It was wonderful. Incredible image. And I saw the Cuaro's Palazzo, really well located, right next to where I bought my fancy Venetian shoes.

I see. So that's my Venice review of the film. I'm going to read my ground rule for haunted house movies now. The haunting must be defined by the events that took place in the house. If there's a haunted object, for example, the Necronomicon in The Evil Dead. That's not a haunted house movie. That's a haunted book movie. You could put the Necronomicon on a boat. That would be a haunted boat.

What movie are you talking about again? I stopped listening. The Evil Dead, for fuck's sake. Sam Raimi's The Evil Dead. I know, I know. But I just said, you like said Necronomicon. And I just stopped listening. What is it?

You just need to do it. Oh my God. I'm sorry. But I'm back. I'm back. Okay. Okay. The Necronomicon,

aka the book of the dead. That's what's haunted. That's what's got the demons in it. That's what conjures the demons. And then it becomes a haunted house movie because of that. But I don't think of that. The Evil Dead's not on my list, is my point. Okay.

You know, there are many examples of this. Annabelle. Annabelle is a haunted doll. Okay. It's not a haunted house. Okay. You got it? I understand.

Are you following? I understand. Do you agree? haunted house. Okay. You got it? I understand. Are you following? I understand. Do you agree? I do. Okay. Yeah, because that's about the object. I said the house is one of the characters. Right.

So that's about an object. Just like New York is a character in Sex and the City. Yes. Yes. I already made that joke on this podcast, but you weren't listening to me. Got it. Okay. So it was more by reference.

You know, you gotta really follow what I'm saying. What's the best non-living character in movie history? Non-organic. It can't be a tree. I was gonna say the sled, you know? Rosebud? Yeah. Wow.

That's a bold choice. Well, it's the first thing that came to mind. I like it. Let's go with it. Okay. That's a bold choice. Well, it's the first thing that came to mind. I like it. Let's go with it. Okay. That's a different episode. Arguably, Citizen Kane could be on this list. Best non-living objects.

Top five non-living objects episode. I mean, that sounds wonderful. Okay. What else is there? I can't believe you didn't put the grail there. You know, is it living or not is one of the major questions. Because it's giving life. I see.

Well, let's consult the Bible. What does it say about the grail in there? You want to do your movies? Do I have to do all of them at once? Are we going back and forth? You can go back and forth. Sure. Number five, what lies beneath?

That's right. Speak on it. This is a movie starring Michelle Pfeiffer and Harrison Ford as a married couple who have a really active sex life until the haunted house gets in the way and reveals that Harrison Ford was also spoiler, I guess. You should spoil the movie for anybody who's not seen it. How are we not supposed to spoil these movies? I don't know. It's an incredible test for you. All right. Well. not supposed to spoil these movies i don't know it's an incredible test for you all right well spoiler alert harrison ford is a ghost i you know i don't know that was a good zag yeah that's a

good zag of expectations well i'm not spoiling it anymore i don't how do you want to talk about these movies did you re-watch this one i did yeah's really weird. But it's. I thought it was pretty effective. I liked it. Yeah. It's good. One of the last like normal Robertson. Yeah. When it turns it turns.

Michelle Pfeiffer like is really having fun with it by the end which is great and looks beautiful and they do have some chemistry. So that's nice. They do. They do. He frequently has chemistry with his female co-stars. Have you noticed that?

I have. It's one of the great things about Harrison Ford. It's interesting. Um, but, okay, so I don't know

how to even talk about the themes of this movie without, it's, it's a big, it's a movie, it's a very twisty film. It's a twisty film

and it is like literally, well, is it literally haunted? I think that's a great question yeah i think that speaks to what we're discussing yeah and that's part of what is fun about it and you know eileen and i did rewatch it for the harrison ford hall of fame and we had that conversation right what was real and what was not real right what was actually supernatural and what was not and i i think it's great to be ambiguous i think the ambiguity usually makes for the best kinds of these movies the movies like

this that over explain themselves not so much a fan okay um that's not a hundred percent of the time true but most of the time it's true i'll tell you what in my number five it is explained it is explained quite clearly what has happened my number five, it is explained. It is explained quite clearly what has happened. My number five is Poltergeist. Poltergeist, Toby Hooper's 1982 kind of blockbuster horror movie. This is a very mainstream hit movie starring Craig T. Nelson and Jo Beth Williams. And very memorably, Heather O'Rourke as Carol Ann Freeling, the little girl who hears and speaks to the spirits that are occupying the suburban family's home.

One of the great movies about thinking you've mastered the universe and gotten everything that you wanted and you're, you know, with your two car garage and your two and a half kids and your dog and all the things that you want in your television set. And then things going terribly awry. Now, the movie's produced by Steven Spielberg and Frank Marshall, so it has a kind of pop sensibility. Toby Hooper, the director of Texas Chainsaw Massacre, is one of the great torture artists in movie history. His movies can be extremely difficult to watch

because of how terrifying they are. This is a movie that fucked me up as a kid. Speaking of being scared, I was really scared of this movie. There's a sequence where a character's looking into the mirror and begins to peel the flesh from his face. Messed me up. Really bad.

This is a great, great movie. You know, at the risk of spoiling it, they do basically reveal what's going on here. You know, you move the headstones, but you didn't move the bodies. One of the great lines what's going on here you know you move the headstones but you didn't move the bodies one of the great lines in movie history why didn't you move the bodies

and when I first started doing this this was the first movie that I thought of I don't know if it's the best movie maybe not the most artful movie it's a popcorn movie it's a really good popcorn movie

but man it lives with me and it's like you know something can damage you in a good way early on so this is this is a good one how old were you when you saw it got under 10 okay well that's messed up too young yeah too young i mean i think the caroline character is very appealing to little kids i mean she's very relatable this is sort of like what if i was

in this position where i was kind of like like like attracted to or drawn to or being communicated through are all horror movies really made for like 8 to 11 year olds and then people who remember being 8 to 11 when they saw horror movies that's a very interesting question i think there is a primal quality to the construction of horror that speaks to the kind of unresolved. And I don't, I don't mean to, I don't mean to be dismissive when I say that because I'd like, and I know sometimes I'm like,

this is for children, but I think. No, I think it's a fair question. Because when I watch them now, I'm not scared. Cause I don't think it's real. I'm just like annoyed.

I'm like, that's gross i you know can you can you right this is not what how i want to be spending my time even even if i can appreciate the construction and there is great filmmaking that's required to like hit the jump scare or hit the weird effect or whatever to create that fear but i you only believe it's real if you're younger or you remember what it's like? I think it's a question of being willing to give yourself over to it. Right, right, right, right.

You know, like, I don't believe anything is real. And I've said many times I don't often get scared and I get really excited by, like, the excitement of the construction, of where they've put me.

Every once in a while I do get scared. Every once in a while I do feel like I have to look away or I'm, like, I'm so inside of the thing. Now, I tend to turn myself

over to movies in a pretty big way. I want to believe and, like, I'm so inside of the thing. Now, I tend to turn myself over to movies in a pretty big way. I want to believe and like, I want to accept the artist's intent, for lack of a better word. I think that there is a raft of horror movies and scary movies and haunted house movies that are designed primarily for like kids instincts. But then there's at least one, the next one on my list that is not, that's like not a movie for kids. But why don't we do your next one? So at number four, I forgot to pick.

I have one like traditional one because- Go for it. But then I also have cutesy ones. Like does the money pit count? The money pit in a lot of ways is like the funny version of like what you were just saying of like you thought you made it to your suburban, you know, and what was haunting you was in many ways the same thing. It just wasn't supernatural.

I think that's really funny. Okay. Then the Money Pit. I haven't seen this in a long time. I know. We should probably see it again given where we are in life. That's a good point. Yeah.

They really, it's a very truthful film. Yeah. As I recall. It should probably be remade also, but. Yeah. Is it actually funny? Well, we could make it funny. I don't know. I haven't, I mean, I haven't seen it. Would it be more like emotionally damaging? Oh, this movie is directed by Richard Benjamin and written by David Giler. Yeah. No, this is. The producer of Alien. I can't believe this hasn't been remade. You know what it is? It's, I guess it's Mr. Blanding's Builds His Dream House, too.

So speaking of this conversation we're having about remaking movies, you know, they do come along every 30, 40, 50 years. Perhaps you should write and direct.

Okay. With Nancy? Wow. She can write and direct and I'll just be encouraging. You've got to imagine she circled Mr. Blanding's

Builds His Dream House before, right? She must have. She seems to have such a complicated relationship act and i'll just you got to imagine she circled mr blanding's built his dream house before right she must have she seems to have such a complicated relationship to the way that her production design and her you know vision of the world is is talked about and i agree that you know many people talk about it pretty dismissively um but maybe she might not want to be associated with it even though it would be wonderful i mean it's complicated also has a renovation you know yeah but it's not it's it's an important part of the first half of the movie i feel like no it is but it's not like it doesn't go wrong it goes wrong emotionally i see but um it's she

has a beautiful kitchen and then she gets a larger, more beautiful kitchen. Were you aware that this movie was produced by Kathleen Kennedy and Frank Marshall and shot by Gordon Willis? No, I was not aware that it was shot by Gordon Willis. This is a... Okay. Might be time to revisit the money pick. I guess so. That's quite a roster of folks who worked on this film.

That's a really funny pick. Okay, thank you. Thanks so much. My number four is a movie I'm quite certain that you have not seen. It's from 1981. It's called The Beyond. It is a Lucio Fulci kind of Italian horror masterpiece. Really in the very, very short list of most upsetting movies ever made.

Okay. Here's the premise. It's an Italian filmmaker making a movie set in America. Um, a young woman inherits a kind of like hotel in Louisiana and that hotel is built on one of the entrances to the gates of hell. Okay. So everything that happens in the hotel is fucking awful.

It is one of the most dread-inducing movies it is very gory so you would not like it you know you would be like this is annoying i don't want to have to deal with this yeah but when it is not doing that when it is not slashing people's throats there's just something off you know when you're watching a movie and you said vibes are really important yes you know the vibe is so bad on this movie. Yeah, okay. In a way that is so powerful. Right.

And so. That's an achievement. It really is. There's something so upsetting and difficult about the movie. And, you know, it's a 90-minute movie. It's not like some 10-hour slog or anything like that. That's not what I mean. I mean, you feel like at any moment something awful could happen to anybody that you're watching on screen.

And not in like a dramatic and exciting way. know like god what the fuck like who thinks of this shit kind of a way which i love movies like that and i realized that that's not that's weird it's weird to be watching a movie like that at 41 years old and your wife and two-year-old child like walk in and they're like what are you doing and i'm like nothing just watching a guy get his ears cut off and then fed to a pig you know like it's normal stuff but

you know this is a movie about a house built on the top of hell right so is that one of your concerns I don't believe in hell okay

oh you don't well you don't believe in Satan but no I don't believe I don't believe really in the afterlife if I'm being honest you believe in the afterlife

no I don't think. I don't believe really in the afterlife, if I'm being honest. You believe in the afterlife? No, I don't think so. What about reincarnation? I'm more open to that idea, though I don't think I buy anything very literal in it. But the idea that things are floating around. You know what I wish for you? Yeah. That you're reborn as a letterbox, bro. What's your number three?

Hereditary. I guess we're not spoiling these, so I can't talk about. I feel like most listeners of this show have seen Hereditary. But I don't know whether they have or not. What I like about this is that there is i get that i mean there is like a there's an actual supernatural exploration explanation for what's going on but there's also a psychological you know it's the family we had along the way um do you feel that you have experienced such trauma that you would manifest apparitions? No.

How nice. Yeah, well. I don't, not yet. I mean, you know, in many ways I'm young, so. That's so true. Hereditary, yeah. Great movie. Really good.

Really, really excellent film. Yeah. Do you think this is the film that Ari Aster will be remembered for? Probably. He's only made three now. Well. I don't even think he's 40. He seems to have a lot going on in his mind, so I'm sure there are many. But it's such a memorable first feature.

And brought in so many people who then maybe don't love the rest of the Ari Aster project as much. Though I do. Yeah, you're an admirer. I am. It's weird. I'm a fucked up man. Yeah. I have a mom, and it's hard having one, and it's hard being one.

It's very complicated. Yeah. Mom's super complicated. You are one. Yeah, I know. How are you coping with that? I do my best every day. When you watch a film like Hereditary, and you see a mother...

Yeah. ...torn asunder. Yes. Driven mad. day. When you watch a film like Hereditary and you see a mother torn asunder, driven mad, do you think, go left, zag? Got to avoid that? Or do you think, it's understandable? I think that I really don't want Knox to want to make a movie like that about me. You know, but I felt that way about The Fablemans too. Wait, a haunted house movie all its own.

It truly is. In many ways, very haunted telling of a life. Don't show Knox Reditary without me. I want to be there when he sees it for the first time. Okay. Okay? And he and I can talk afterwards. I'll just ship him over to your house, you know? Sleepover? That sounds great. He can come sleepover. We'll show him all the horror movies. That's great. Okay. Okay? And he and I can talk afterwards. I'll just ship him over to your house, you know?

Sleepover? That sounds great. He can come sleepover. We'll show him all the horror movies. That's great. Okay. This is what uncle babysitters do. What's in this McDonald's bag?

The McValue Meal. For $5.79 plus tax, you can get your choice of junior chicken, McDouble, or chicken snack wrap, plus small fries and a small fountain drink. So pick up a McValue Me meal today at participating McDonald's restaurants in Canada. Prices exclude delivery. My number three is Beetlejuice. Yeah. We talked about it on the last pod. This is kind of my money pit pick.

Sure. A kind of a scary movie, but mostly a really funny movie. Did you watch the Lauren Bovert video? I did. I did. I kind of dodged that joke last week when you mentioned it, but now that it has become the funniest thing

that ever happened in the history of American politics but now that it has become the funniest thing that ever happened in the history of American politics, I think it's fair game. Okay. You didn't think it was funny before? I didn't have the total context. I saw the, she was like, I wasn't vaping, and then there was video of her vaping, and she was like, my bad, I vaped.

That's amazing that she did that. But then her, like, cranking it with some, like, some guy's crank, and he's, like, feeling some guy's crank in the, and he's like feeling her up. What in the world? In Beetlejuice? There were kids in that theater. Like the traveling Beetlejuice, like outside of Denver. Like what's happening?

I don't really, you know, I actually, I'm sure I have plenty of opinions about her, but just as a human being, that's just a really weird way to spend the night. It's really weird. to spend the night really weird extremely weird yeah i'm trying to think of when's the last time i was like i hope someone reaches for my crotch in public like what the fuck people are so insane um beetlejuice is really funny it's a movie about um people who buy their dream house and then die in their dream house and or die nearby their dream house i suppose and then are are fated to haunt in this case. So it's kind of an inversion. It's a movie seen through the eyes of the haunters as opposed to the other way around.

Alec Baldwin and Geena Davis, hilarious. Of course, this is a movie where Michael Keaton plays, I guess, like a demon who works in the ghost world? A hireable demon? Is that that true can i tell you something else i was uh having dinner with alice last night and she was taking her rice and she was putting it on top of the top of her cup okay her water cup and then that like pushing her head down to eat the rice that is off of the cup okay and i was like alice you're eating like a demon and she said i'm not a demon i have that on video um she was giving off when she said go birds

she did say go birds yeah your house yeah yeah and she recanted though i don't know if you saw i did see that i really she recanted her eagles fandom she's apparently a bills fan it's tough um beetlejuice is so clever and between it having a sequel now and then also being i guess like the jerk-off fantasy of lauren bobert like i'm afraid it's gonna be come disreputable in a way that i don't appreciate we can just beetlejuice the movie can just be enshrined in. Do you think that was like a manifestation of like, is that the first time Lauren Boebert like had a physical experience watching the original film? Like what the hell is going on there?

I don't think that she has any like, you know, connection to like her childhood happiness. No, I just like, I don't think that that's what's going on with her. I think that she's acting out because she didn't have any child. I don't know. I don't know what's going on with her. She just seems incredibly strange. I'm just like, leave Beetlejuice alone.

That's where my head's at with that one. I'm with you. You know, it's a great film. What's your number two? Rebecca. The 1940 version, not the recent version. Also starring Armie Hammer. The Lily James version of Armie Hammer.

Yeah. That was tough. Poor Kristen Scott Thomas. Yeah. She did okay. She was good. Yeah. This is a house that is haunted by, well, lies.

And, well, is it haunted by the memory of an ex-wife truly yeah and then and then some other things as a result of that um but it's a psychological haunting was this your number one hitchcock no i think north by northwest is my number one hitchcock rebecca is wonderful it's really i kind of left it for you thank you on any given day this is pretty high up there for me as well. Okay. I like that movie a lot and it does feel like there's a bit of this in A Haunting in Venice

and it tends to recreate some of this. And a film that is very related to Rebecca in many ways. My number two is The Innocents. This is Jack Clayton's

1961 kind of modified adaptation of Henry James' The Turn of the Screw. Stars Deborah Carr as a, I guess, it's supposed to be a young woman in the story. It's supposed to be like a 20-year-old woman, but Deborah Carr is like 40 years old

when she made this movie. Nevertheless, she's a young woman who gets hired as a governess to two young orphaned kids. They have an uncle, and their uncle hires a governess to basically be like, take these kids off my hands.

And they live in this very grand Gothic estate. And the kids are acting strange. They're acting very, very strange. They're even being weirdly physical with each other. And the governess is extremely confused and begins this quest to kind of understand what's wrong with this family, with this house. And the movie is really fascinating in a few ways. One, it's a five-star movie. I think it's one of the best movies ever made. Jack Clayton only made like eight movies. He's a great adapter.

One of the things that he did here was he didn't try to adapt James directly. He saw that there was a play that attempted to adapt this story. And then he read the play and then he talked to the playwright and he was like, this is pretty close. And then he read the play and then he talked to the playwright and he was like, this is pretty close. And then the playwright was like,

here's what I think this movie is about. And Jack Clayton got mad and he was like, you're wrong, that's not what this is about. And then he hired Truman Capote. And Truman Capote rewrote this entire play. And he gives it this kind of southern haunted quality in an otherwise British production. From a technical perspective,

one of the best looking films ever made, shot in CinemaScope. If you like Brian De Palma movies, you can see a lot of Brian De Palma in this movie. Also, first time I think ever that there was an electronic score on a movie, even though it's this period piece set in the 19th century, I think, in England. It kind of sounds like a Michael Mann movie a little bit at times with the score. Anyway, revolutionary movie. One of the most beautiful movies ever made. There's an amazing Criterion Collection edition of this movie. If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend you check it out.

Has two images that'll burrow into your soul that are unmistakable. The Innocence. Okay, what's number one? We share number one. The Shining. Yeah. Obviously. Yeah.

Really good. I mean, it's a haunted hotel. This is kind of like my LeBron, Taylor Swift, Donald Trump. Yeah. But it's like you can't have any other number one. Yeah. I don't know. It's really good.

I would like to see this on the big screen soon. Sure. It seems like the month is coming. Yeah. You know? You're not afraid of this movie this movie i guess because it is psychological as well as you know the actual scares it makes me uneasy like it's powerful and i guess it does make me like creeped out I feel in the bathtub you're not scared of that no I'm just like yeah you know okay I don't know I another thing about it is that so many of the

images are like now divorced from the movie and are just kind of like in our heads that it's a testament to the movie that it still has that power even though you you're like oh this is about to happen and this is about to happen and i know this and i know this um but it doesn't make me as freaked out as as i might otherwise but this could probably if i saw it for the first time without knowing all the things it would scare me you're right there is an iconography attached to it that makes it harder. You know, I wonder about a movie like this if the internet has been a bad thing. Okay.

Because you can just see the image of Jack Nicholson frozen at the end of it. Or you can see the Here's Johnny sequence. Or you can see the... Typing. And the typing's a meme. Right. The typing. Or you can see the bathroom attendant or the bartender.

People have been being the twins for Halloween for 30 years, you know? The elevator exploding with blood. Obviously, part of the reason that the film is such an important and memorable and loved movie is because it is this onslaught of imagery that kind of overwhelms your senses and you can't get it out of your head. I mean, that's what I think when people talk about Kubrick, they probably underrate the fact that he just keeps making images that you can't not see anymore, which is an incredible gift. But I do wonder when you chop them up. Do people underrate that? That's sort of the whole thing. I feel like perhaps maybe you're right. I feel like it's the icy tonality of doom-like efficiency that he brings to a lot of his films.

Obviously, his visual style is hugely celebrated. I think you're right. We're both right. I do wonder if by chopping up the movie and making the movie a series of jokes across culture over 30 years. You know, The Simpsons, in many ways, I feel like started this, but was doing it in a very confined space. And now you can just watch a joke from The Simpsons on Twitter referencing The Shining in 0.1 seconds. Yeah. That, I wonder if a movie like this gets diminished somehow in the culture.

If this is, you know, we don't want to get on that boat, you know, because then like the whole world is being diminished. It's the world we live in. It's fine. Kids also, also kids know what the shining is, you know, so it's fine. They do. Like 26 year olds, you mean? Yeah, they do. Okay.

Interesting. Do you have any honorable mentions? Oh, wait, I want to mention one thing. We were talking before we started recording about how I don't want for things as much anymore. You know how I'm like, I don't want a boat. Like, I don't want to, I don't try, don't really spend on lavish objects at this stage of my life. I may want to again at some point in the future, but that's not something I'm interested in right now. But there is a $1,500 book about The Shining that I would like to own.

Okay. Tell me more. It is very limited. It's a book and not a Blu-ray, so I'm interested. Well, it's a gigantic book. Great. Let me see if I can find the title of this book. It's just called Stanley Kubrick's The Shining. Tashin is publishing it, of course, the home of many elaborate books. This is the definitive compendium of the film that transformed the horror genre, features hundreds of never-before-seen

photographs, rare production ephemera from the kubrick archive and extensive new interviews with the cast and crew this is an enormous box and inside the box is a book that looks like the sign-in book yeah hotel that's cool yeah and then some prints in here and it's just like it's just an adult toy you know i'm in the phase where i'm buying a lot of toys yeah and then you see what toys click and what toys don't click like this is a toy that clicks for me at this sad stage of my life i'm showing you a photo of all of the articles that can be found inside of this i mean that that looks nice leather bound i listen i likes i like books as you know if i said amanda i spent 1500 on a book that I will look at three times before I die.

I mean, that's art, you know, at that point. And I think that that is, I mean, I don't know. That's a lot of money. Here's a photo of a blood-drenched hallway after an elevator opened. That's cool. Should we put that up in Alice's room? Yeah, I think that would be nice. Okay.

You know? And then she'll love horror movies forever. What was the horror movie you watched in the hospital the night she was born? A film I thought about discussing here, The Night House. Okay. It's a haunted house film. Okay. Deeply disturbing film.

It's still one of the weirdest things you've ever done. I feel good about it. I look back, last two years of my life, some of the happiest. Incredibly complicated time. I like to work through it i like to power through my emotions okay i that's not true at all but you like to avoid them in this context yeah but imagine it's just alice and i are just eileen and i looking at each other and i'm like i watch the night house and and I feel pain. Okay. You know, that can happen.

I guess. I mean, everybody's got to handle it in their own way. You know, that's you. How do you process your emotions? I don't. I say, I don't want to feel this and I put it away. Interesting. Yeah.

You'd fit right in in a haunted house movie. Yeah, I would. Do you have any honorable mentions? Well, I got a lot of haunted by loves, you know. Oh, okay. Ghost, technically, that apartment is haunted by Patrick Swayze

and his love for Demi Moore. Also, The Notebook, he spends a lot of time renovating that house because it's haunted by Rachel McAdams. Kind of a Money Pit sequel. And then she comes back to it.

Right. And then there's Under the Tuscan Sun, which is more like it's haunted by her lack of i mean that house is falling the fuck down and she's in it and she has to make peace with herself and with her divorce and with valuing herself as a middle aged woman hold on i gave you the money because i thought that was a good idea but every movie where a house needs to be fixed is not haunted. That's just not the definition of haunted.

But that's the plot of the movie. People are working through things while they're working on the house. And then they reach resolution. The ghosts are their past, which are also the ghosts in many of these haunted house movies. But just remembering stuff that happened doesn't mean you're haunted. That's like actually literally what it does because these people are remembering things that didn't work out for them.

That they're carrying with them. That are haunted. And then they work through it. Do you really believe this? No, but I don't really care about ghosts. Okay, I see. So, you know. What about some actual haunted house movies?

The Conjuring was pretty good. Conjuring 2. That's the one. I don't think I saw that one. Conjuring 2 takes place in England. Oh. And is, I thought, is really one of the underrated

horror movies the last 25 years. I think it's wonderful. James Wan. I watched a terrible one yesterday. And Eileen and I watched it together for some godforsaken reason. She was really a good sport.

I watched The Legacy. Have you ever heard of this? No. This is the movie where Sam Elliott and Catherine Ross met and fell in love. Oh.

And they have been together ever since. That's beautiful. Late 70s movie. It's directed by Richard Marquand. I believe it's the last movie he directed before directing your favorite movie,

Return of the Jedi. Oh, yeah. Did he do a good job on that? On Return of the Jedi. Oh yeah. Um, it's edited. Did he do a good job on that? On Return of the Jedi? You'll have to watch it and find out. Um, it's edited by Ann Coates,

one of the great editors in the history of cinema. It's kind of like Rosemary's Baby, but with like a medieval English twist. It was dreadful. Okay. I was hoping for like a, wow, I just saw a new one I'm going to put on my list

kind of situation. Medieval is tough. Well, it's not medieval. What era is Elizabeth I? Is that like 18th century, 19th century? No, that's like the Renaissance.

That's like just after. She's like late 1500s, early 1600s. So that is kind of accurate, ultimately. No, medieval's before. What is the medieval era? I would say that that is probably 1100, 1200 to the 1500s until the printing press, basically. And then people have access to writing again.

And then they, well, i think that's the definition i do also to bring it back i think did elizabeth the first utter the phrase i'm gonna get medieval on your ass no i don't think so okay but imagine if she did how cool would that be I'm actually I'm misrepresenting the legacy it's all good okay

you'll have to watch it to understand what I mean so it's like it's just it's the Elizabethan age the first Elizabethan age it's not set in that time it's related to that time

the story is deeply related to that time but it's set during the contemporary times oh yeah I'll explain later if anybody wants to check out the legacy you just

been like you made fun of me for talking about movies i like uh that involve houses that where things go wrong and then you just talked forever nonsensically about a movie you didn't like it was 37 seconds and i was talking just how dare you uh the others we didn't mention the others i have never seen the others are you serious I don't know I was in oh I think you would like it okay

oh it's quite good okay yeah it was it's probably number six on my list wow so you really don't care about ghosts huh

this is Alejandro Amenyabar's 2001 I almost put Casper the friendly ghost on my list you're a psycho well I don't care

about ghosts I okay consider the others I don't believe in them I wanted to put Lake Mungo on my list. You're a psycho. Well, I don't care about ghosts. I, okay. Consider the others. I don't believe in them. I wanted to put Lake Mungo on my list. Oh, yeah. People like that.

This is a really, really good movie. I can't because it's about a 16-year-old girl named Alice who dies. Now I'm like, I don't know if I can watch this movie again.

Yeah, you definitely can. But the first time I saw Lake Mungo was very effective. A few others. The Changeling, George C. Scott movie about a composer

who is mourning the death of his son. Very upsetting movie. A lot of these movies are about that. But that's the other thing. I don't want to watch that. You know what's a really fun one that I think people would enjoy if they checked it out that not a ton of people have seen is Burnt Offerings. This is a 1976 movie in which not only is the house possessed,

but it actually kills in interesting ways. Okay. Burnt offerings. Just putting that out there for people. I also really like Ty West's House of the Devil which is like a riff on

it's a slow burn riff on a babysitter movie. Babysitter comes over supposed to take care of the kid something's not right in this house and things go horribly wrong.

Okay. That's a really really good movie. There's probably some more, but we can skip. Oh, you know what? I got to mention 1977's House,

which is the Japanese movie, which is one of the, probably one of the 20 craziest movies ever made. It's a sensory experience in which wild things happen to these young girls having a sleepover.

These movies are good. I don't, you got to get into ghosts ghosts are cool man it's gonna be halloween soon are they cool yeah sure but you don't believe in them i'm not i'm not hanging out with them okay but in the context of a movie sure okay yeah do you like going to like real haunted houses i know you like the haunted hayride i do i love i love an experiential horror situation.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, I know CR is really the king of that. I'm not trying to get on his territory. No, no, no, it's fine.

I'm just really into the Halloween vibe. I'm just really into the horror. What are your plans this year? I don't know. I mean,

she's two, right? So what are we going to do? I'm not going to take her to Halloween Horror Nights at Universal yet. Right. But I intend to do that in the future.

I'd hopefully trick-or-treat with Knox. Yeah. That's great. I'm still just completely stuck on a costume. And we're leaning rabbit right now.

Oh, yeah. That's good. Will she wear the hat? Yeah, she said, I want to wear pink rabbit ears. Oh, that's cute. Yeah. Okay.

So we have to find a pink rabbit. I think that's possible. You think it's available? Yeah. But what if she changes her mind on the color think that's possible. You think it's available? Yeah. But what if she changes her mind on the color last minute? You should probably get purple as well. Sounds like I'll be out $28.

I know, but like you need to have the purple on hand for when she's like, no, I want purple. This is an underrated aspect of parenting is not realizing you need a backup for everything. Yep. Didn't know that was going to be the case. Yeah. We got to get a, we got a new sleep sack do people know about this bobby you know about sleep sacks i have i have no idea what that is okay so uh the the children remember yeah right i know well the children well the real children

now the babies they instead of having a blanket they just have a like it's a blanket sack that zips up that they wear because that helps with i don't know you know safety concerns feeling swaddled and yeah all of that um so we forgot i need one of those i need a sleep sock i don't sleep very well i toss and turn yeah they'll zip you right up um we got a new one for nox because we forgot his when we were traveling and this has become his like beloved toy that he wants to hold. His comfort toy? His comfort thing, you know?

His sleep sack? Yeah, and he pulls it out of the crib and, like, snuggles with it. That's sweet. Yeah, but we only have one. So what happens? Well, we have two. We always keep two. Well, I know.

What do you do when you wash them? We, like, wash them while he's awake. It's, like, a quick-term situation. But you're not supposed to air dry? Well, we're not doing that. Oh. It's like a quick term situation. this was the air dry? Well, we're not doing that. Oh. That's why we have two.

I know. It takes forever to dry. Listen, I understand that you, I was trying to relate to you. This is an important material here at the end of this podcast. Having backups,

you know? Should I cut this and put it at the front, you know, just to get it maybe a standalone pod. You didn't know about sleep sacks

and now you do, Bobby. And now I do. I'm learning stuff. So, there you go. I just want to end this pod by saying I just received an invitation to the Sphere Experience featuring Darren Aronofsky's postcard from Earth.

Okay. And I've never been more excited for anything in my life. So you're going to leave your family and go to Las Vegas to watch Darren Aronofsky's postcards on Earth in a giant eyeball? It's a postcard from Earth, please. Oh, in a giant eyeball. Yeah. I may never come back.

I may move inside the sphere. I have a good Halloween costume backup idea for you, Sean. Okay. You and Alice. You go as Daniel Plainfew and you dress up Alice as an oil derrick. Oh, that's a good idea. No, she would be HW well you don't want her to be damaged

too he actually cares about the oil Derek more than so if you think about it I know wow wait till we talk about the relationship between killers of the flower moon in that

movie oh my god it's very exciting oh dear I'm very excited um okay well this is as usual just off the rails completely shout out to sleep sacks they came in so much handy I'm so so appreciative for all Very excited. Okay. Well, this is, as usual, just off the rails completely. Shout out to Sleep Sacks. They came in so much handy.

I'm so appreciative for all their work. Shout out to Venice Canals. Shout out to the Medieval Times. Shout out to the ghosts. How about those ghosts? Shout out to Bobby for his work on today's episode, our producer on this show. Later this week, a new sub-genre exploration.

Chris Ryan will join us. We're going to talk about Dumb Money, which is going into wider release. This is the new film about the GameStop Wall Street bets extravaganza.

We're going to talk about Garbage Cash movies. How are you feeling? You ready? My husband came into the room the other day and was like it's like two in the afternoon

and he's like why are you watching Boiler Room? And I was and I just said two words garbage cash and zach was like the big pick is the best and then just walked right out so we're ready bring it on love it we'll see you then you