The Big Picture - ‘A Minecraft Movie’ Is the Most Important Movie of the Year So Far. And These Flicks Are the Best …

Episode Date: April 7, 2025

Sean and Amanda cover the absolute box office phenomenon ‘A Minecraft Movie,’ a video game adaptation starring Jack Black and Jason Momoa. They explore the event film of the year and discuss why the theatergoing experience of the film is such a great thing for the industry at large (1:08). Then, they give a Movie State of the Union, where they work through the troubling slate of early 2025 movies and consider whether television is currently “beating” movies (22:05). Finally, in an attempt to end the episode on an optimistic note, they highlight some movies they’ve enjoyed in 2025 and share their list of the best movies of the year so far (54:05). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi everyone, it's Amy Poehler, and I'm launching a new podcast called Good Hang. In preparation for that, I asked some of my friends to send in some videos and give me some advice. "...just be yourself and the guests will come." Don't be the celebrity that this is their, like, sixth thing they're doing. "...I love True Crime and Cooking podcast. Is there any way you could combine the two?" Well, everyone has an opinion and a podcast.

So join me for Good Hang. It's rough out there. We're just trying to lighten it up a little. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about a movie state of the union and a Minecraft

Revolution. Are you ready Amanda? Minecraft or Minecraft? My mind is crafting a Minecraft revolution. Okay. How are you feeling? How much coffee did you have this morning? Just one cup. Okay. Really? Are you cutting back? No, that's just my natural effervescence is rising to the surface. One cup is unusual for you at this time of the day. So are you like, are you spacing it out through the day? No, I am buoyed by the return. You're just trying to steer back so hard to Minecraft and I'm just like anything but Minecraft. I know, how much money did it make Sean?

It made 301 million dollars globally and you know I think I received just like a scintilla of credit for the it's so over we're so back meme you know like I was I was there somewhat early in that story and I beat it to death over a number of years yeah and I'm not saying I'm returning to that bit okay but we are so back like we the movies are back okay And I think a lot of people are assuming I'm going to get on this podcast to talk about Minecraft and say, this movie is terrible. This is a disaster. And I'm not going to say that because this is not a disaster. This is wonderful news. I'm excited about what's happened over the weekend.

And I have so many reasons why. Regardless of the qualitative aspects of a Minecraft movie. Oh brother. Okay. You ready to walk through this with me? Yes. Set the scene. Where did you see, where and when did you see a Minecraft movie? Ah, Minecraft. Ah, ah, Minecraft movie. Yes, yes.

Ah, I saw a Minecraft movie at your beloved Regal Paseo on a Saturday night. Okay. I saw a Minecraft movie at your beloved Regal Paseo on a Saturday night. I went to a 9 p.m. screening after seeing a 7.30 p.m. screening of The Woman in the Yard. Yes. Yom Colet, Sarah's new horror movie, which I had high hopes for and was somewhat disappointed by. But I felt like I'd been having some struggles with the movie world.

It's been a pretty tough first quarter. We'll talk about some movies later in this episode that we did like that have come out this year, but... We're trying to find the good. It's been a hard year for the good. But then you found the good at 9 o'clock on Saturday night at the Regal Paseo? I did not find what I would describe as a good movie.

I don't think a Minecraft movie is a quote unquote good movie. It is an important movie. It is in some ways an essential movie. Because I went to a late screening. Yeah. Thinking that I would be able to avoid the young crowd. That it might be too late for the seven, eight, nine year olds who have been dominating the movie theaters over the weekend to see this movie.

And I was wrong. I was surrounded. It was Bedlam in the screening. I was in a I was in a lounger chair screening room you know the ones that go all the way back in the Regals. Did it have the desk? It had the desk. Yeah they recently added the desk. I don't it's a little constricting. You can move the desk to the side. Sure but then you're moving it to someone else. It's sort of like a tray table situation on an airplane. It's not ideal. I would say relative to some of the AMC experiences I think I prefer those.

Nevertheless, I was in one of those screening rooms and I was like, this is just going to be full of burnt out 40-somethings like me, trying to while away the hour. And to my right, there was a 40-something couple on a date. And I watched a guy crush three Sam Adamses during the movie. He was having a great time. But the bulk of the people in that theater.

Like married, dating. Seemed like married. Okay. I mean, they seemed close. They, they... It wasn't a first date. Definitely not. They, they, like, were, they were kind of nuzzling

during some critical moments of the movie. Wow. Not because it was scary, but because the joy of cinema brought them together. That's beautiful. Or were they bored? Um, no. The, the fella to my right, and I saw it in the end, of course,

the fella to my right was deeply engaged saw it on the end of course, the fellow to my right was deeply engaged in this story. Chuckling. Okay. Not chuckling nearly as hard as the nine and 10 year olds. Okay. So are you sure they were nine and 10? Like, what's your radar for how old kids are that's older?

I'm not going to pretend as though I'm an expert on clocking children's ages. I have some more credibility in that respect now that I'm an uncle and a father that I do know general age ranges. So you think nine or ten versus 12 to 14. I think there were 12 and 14 year olds in there as well, but there were a lot a lot a bunch of kids who just simply did not know how to act. Now the last time I remember this experience was Minions 2, The Rise of Gru. That was the last time where I was like there is a rowdiness here in the movie theater yeah that I find very interesting. I'll come back to the Minions in a second. Well, but that was mostly teenagers doing memes.

It was, and this is sort of that in reverse. So Minecraft, for those of you listening at home who don't know what it is, if you've been living under a rock and or are in your 40s, this is a video game. It's arguably the most popular video game, best-selling video game of all time. It's the arguably the most popular video game, best-selling video game of all time. It was created in 2011 and there have been many editions in that 15 years. This is what we can safely call New IP. The

movie is directed by Jared Hess who is probably best known for directing Napoleon Dynamite which I know is your favorite comedy of the 21st century. We'll get to it soon on 25 for 25. I like Napoleon Dynamite. It's fine. It's okay. I mean it's a little overrated in my opinion. Sure but you know if you were there in the moment you chuckled. I chuck 25 for 25. I like Napoleon Dynamite. It's fine. It's okay. I mean, it's a little overrated in my opinion. Sure. But you know, if you were there in the moment, you chuckled. I chuckled for sure. Also the director of a film called Nacho Libre starring Jack Black.

This is a reunion between Hess and Jack Black. And this movie is like many video game adaptations, an attempt to like spin a narrative out of a story in which there is not a ton of narrative. So what is the narrative that they spin? The narrative is that there's a human man who gets sucked up named Steve, who gets sucked up into the world of Minecraft, this place where you can sort of create anything

you imagine where you have to kind of understand the laws of the land and you can kind of, Steve is a master of crafting and somehow, because he's been captured by an evil pig and her series of pig minions, he needs to give up the orb and the cube that have allowed him to go to this magical Minecraft land. He sends it back to earth, many years go by, eventually two young children and a former video game champion played by Jason Momoa discover this orb and cube, and it takes them to the world of

Minecraft. Where do they find them? Uh, well, I'm glad you asked that question. Thank you. Jason Momoa's character, who is known as the garbage man. Okay. Is he a garbage man? No. It was his nickname when he was dominating the video game circuit in the late 1980s.

He has gotten into the storage wars game and he's looking for rare artifacts in the world of gaming because he owns a store, like an emporium where they sell gaming nostalgia stuff. So he's hitting up a storage situation. Jameen Clement, also a longtime collaborator of Jared Hess, is the proprietor of this storage facility. And he gives him a tip that there's something special that he's gonna want inside of one of these storage facilities.

He opens up the box hoping to find an Atari, a rare Atari console, and in fact finds the Orb Cube. Right. And then that eventually... And then where are the children? They've just moved to a new town. The older sister has gotten a job working on social media for a local company. The kid is going to school.

He's a new kid in the class. How do they know the garbage man? Well the kid stumbles into the garbage man's store one day and they make a connection. The kid needs to learn how to be a little bit cooler than he actually is. Alright. Eventually this just leads them going on a magical adventure. Sure. This is a participatory movie the likes of which I haven't seen in a while. A lot of people have been comparing the movie going experience to the Rocky Horror Picture Show where you're like

participating, laughing, like engaging with, repeating lines. There was a moment in particular, and I didn't play this game, so I'm deeply out of the loop on this, but there was a moment where, um... Jason Momoa's character has to have a fight with a baby Frankenstein. Hang with me on this. The baby Frankenstein gets on top of a small chicken. Chickens are a big part of this Minecraft world.

And the baby Frankenstein rides a chicken and fights the Jason Momoa character. When the baby Frankenstein gets on top of the chicken, the words chicken jockey are uttered. And when chicken jockey was uttered, the movie theater exploded as though everyone had just won the World Series. Like, it was pandemonium, except for guys like me who were just like, what does that mean? Do the words chicken jockey mean anything to you? Absolutely not. Oh, OK.

I thought we were getting an absolutely, and I was excited. All right. OK, well, I'm happy for all of those people. I cite that example because this happened five or six times during the movie. There were a series of things that were uttered and I'll tell you what it reminded me of.

It reminded me of sitting with you during Marvel movies. Except I didn't have a you to turn to, to be like, what is this? And I gotta be honest, I felt great about it for two reasons. One, I felt like I'm really, I'm coming into my age. You know, like it finally happened. I don't have to be at the vanguard of stuff

that is important to 12 year olds. You know, I can receive it in a different phase of my life. For 15 years. So it was acceptance. It was. And that's beautiful. I had 15 unabated years of all of my adolescent dreams coming true at the movies.

I was there. Yeah, and I was gorged on it, and I got vomitously sick, and now it's over. The other thing is, it is time for this generation to have their stuff. And one of the things that I think you and I have both complained about a lot is that they haven't had their stuff.

They've had our stuff that has been regurgitated, reimagined, rebooted, reshared. I talked about this when the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie came out. I talked about it when The Last Transformers movie came out. It's nice and fun for me, but it's not really for nine-year-olds. And when you look at Barbie, when you look at the Super Mario Brothers movie, when you look at a handful of like recent phenomenon like this movie, it's because it's new. It's adapted. It's IP. It's familiar. Brothers movie, when you look at a handful of like recent phenomenon like this movie,

it's because it's new. It's adapted. It's IP. It's familiar. They have a reference point. Yes, but they haven't. It's grandfathered in. It is grand. This one less so than the others even though, because it's only 15 years old.

Yeah. You know, like Barbie is 80 years old. Super Mario is 50 years old. Sure, but the half-lives are getting shorter. Well, I wonder about that. That's how half-lives work, right? Um, or do they get longer? It shorter. Well, I wonder about that. That's how half-lives work, right? Or do they get longer? It doesn't matter.

I don't know. The point is, is that 15 years in this current moment with our phones and our computers in our pockets is actually a long time. And it's long enough to capture an entire generation. I think that's the thing, is that it's long enough to make this a huge hit. Yeah.

And it's not really iterating on anything other than itself. It feels like it's within the video game world as much as it can be. I've played Minecraft before, but I have no idea about any of the mythology. And you know, ultimately, I'm willing to accept one mediocre borderline bad movie if it revives a kind of interest in going to the movies. That's the thing that I'm the most interested in. Minecraft's success pays for one battle after another. It is a subsidy.

Right. So there have been bad movies that dumb people have been paying for, for as long as we've been going to the movies. So this to me is a way different proposition than your Fast Xs or whatever, you know, or your Fast 11s or whatever. Yeah.

What number are they on? I think it would be 11, I think. Or Fast X happened, and they went to space in the car. Right? So that would be 10. So then 11 would be next. So that, and part of the reason why I had a complete meltdown when that movie came out, is because I was like, we are circling the drain on something that we've spent

a lot of time with, characters who we've seen over and over again who are not really growing or changing in any meaningful way. It's all just the same thing over and over again. Minecraft is not Casablanca, and I'm not trying to say that it is. Yeah. But it is something newish. Sure. An alternate take.

Okay. Can I just propose to you that like we've finally, we've returned children's movies to the children and where they should be and that's great. And children deserve movies as well and children deserve movies that they care about and that they'll drag their parents to and I guess like spend a lot of money and all the tie-ins if that's how their parents want to spend their time. Absolutely. So, but we have been living in a world of movies that are using childhood references of adults to then extend the childhood of adults

and make us all live in your adolescence for 10 to 20 years. I think that's right. And now we're not as concerned about the adults and we're just making movies for kids. And turns out- Well, would you say Barbie is a movie for kids? I think Barbie is a little bit different. The movie that I thought about this weekend

was Super Mario Brothers because, I mean, very obvious, video game and also massive success. But even Super Mario Brothers is trying to bridge the generations because we all played Super Mario Brothers is trying to bridge the generations because we all played Super Mario Brothers growing up, but then theoretically we could take our children, though neither of us did, to go see. And they could be like, oh, Goomba or whatever.

Princess Peach, you know. Also Jack Black is in both films. I want to get to that. So, I, Barbie was a real, I mean, Barbie's the exception to every single role. And I think that like... I don't think so. I think it's really more of a trailblazer that is carving the way for, this movie has a lot in common with Barbie.

It is probably maybe like, it is certainly less sophisticated in terms of the, some of the ideas that are in it, but the story structure and the way that it is using, you don't like Jack Black and Jason Momoa as much as you like- Excuse me, excuse me. Hold on, let me finish my thought. I like Jason Momoa. Let me just finish my thought.

My thought is you don't like Jack Black and Jason Momoa as much as you like Margot Robbie and Ryan Gosling. But using a 55 year old movie star and a 45 year old movie star as that same bridge, like Ryan Gosling and Margot Robbie drew in a lot Of adults. Yeah, this movie is drawing in adults because Jack Black has been making successful movies like this for over 20 years Like it occurred to me as I'm sure it did to many people when you go through the through his career You know, I love him from like high fidelity and tenacious D

But like Jumanji Super Mario Mario Brothers, Kung Fu Panda, School of Rock, Goosebumps, Ice Age, Shark Tale. He's like arguably the signature kids movie star of the last quarter century. And the guy who was sitting next to me who was crushing the Sam Adams has probably been going on a journey with Jack Black for a long time. And so he's like happy to be escorted into this world of Minecraft with a guy that he's very familiar with.

So to me, like, I actually think Barbie is like a template setter that is will be the same studio to it, which is worth noting. I see all of that, but I think I think Minecraft movie is to Barbie as the Kool-Aid movie from the studio is to Barbie, which is, you know, you're using IP and bringing people in. But it's not Martin Scorsese's Kool-Aid. It's... No, and I'm not saying a Minecraft movie should or will be nominated

for an Academy Award. I think it's... Some of it is charming, it's mostly very stupid. Again, I think it's like, okay, it reminded me a little bit of like, um, movies I saw as a kid, like The Last Starfighter or, um, Invaders, like, there's like, there's just like, you know, when a 10-year-old boy is like, needs to pick up a sword and like, fight an evil pig, like, that's really what's going on there. And that, that is meaningfully different from Barbie. But the idea that people are so into it, that it is an event, is really good.

Children have passions, as you and I know. They do. And I think it's okay if they're slightly separate from the grownup passions, you know? Yeah, I think... I think it's okay for kids to have their own stuff and us to support them and to spend money on it. And then...

Absolutely, they already have a lot of their own stuff. I think they don't have a lot of stuff that are movies. You know? And Minecraft wasn't a movie until now. Yeah, but Gabby's Dollhouse coming soon. I was gonna bring this up. I mean, Gabby's Dollhouse is another example of this, which I have been kind of dreading, because I think once Gabby's Dollhouse gets in the water in my house,

we're gonna be drinking it for years. But that's a... Did it come up on our podcast with Matt Bellany? Yes, because that was my what the fuck moment, was learning about the existence of Gabby's Dollhouse. Gabby's Dollhouse, if you didn't hear our episode with the town, we recorded an additional episode with Matt Bellany on Friday. And Gabby's Dollhouse was one of the big presentations

by Universal. It's a show that has 11 seasons on Netflix. It comes from the creator of Blue's Clues. It's one of the most popular kids TV shows of the last five years. There's a movie adaptation starring Kristen Wiig coming this summer, I think. And Gloria Estefan.

And Gloria Estefan, sure. That was my reaction. I get it, I'm not exactly a movie star, but she's a star in her own right? Excuse me. What are your favorite Gloria Estefan film performances? Should we do her Hall of Fame right now? I was just saying, when I was sitting there,

how are they bringing in the parents? I guess Kristen Wiig, but also Gloria Stefan. Yes, Gabby's Dollhouse is gonna attempt to do the same thing. And it probably will work. I don't think it's gonna work at this scale. This is now gonna be a billion dollar movie. Did not have that on my bingo card.

Did not see that coming. Yeah, nor did I. I didn't think it was going to bomb or anything, but we just spent a month and a half post Mickey 17 talking about how Mike DeLuca and Pam Abdi are screwed. Right. And Warner Brothers is in a terrible spot. Alto Nights, what a fiasco. This movie is now certified. Early reviews of Sinners are through the roof and people are extremely excited.

And now there's like talk of overperformance on that. And then, you know, there's like a bunch of horror movies from Warner Brothers this summer, and then One Battle After Another, which I think might actually overperform a little bit too. And so now it's like, okay, Warner's is fine. Movies are fine. We're good. That's great.

Oh, I'm glad that you went on that whole journey and that you feel good again, because the take that you were bringing in that you tried on that whole journey and that you feel good again. Because the take that you were bringing in that you tried on me in like the bleachers at CinemaCon was a garbage take in my opinion. Well, the take that I have that I will pivot to momentarily with you is still accurate because we're not having a qualitative conversation right now. We're having a business conversation.

Oh, good, okay. I didn't know that I needed to be wearing my town hat. Well, it's townish. Here's my business response to you. Yes, good. Okay. We're talking about- I didn't know that I needed to be wearing my town hat. Well, it's townish. Here's my business response to you. Yes, movies for children work. When they work, they work great. Yeah.

And they haven't had a lot of... There haven't been a lot of successes recently. I have much more... I don't know if you pay attention to this as much since you've had kids, but I pay very close attention to kids' movies now because I'm looking closely at what they can and can't see. I sent the Minecraft trailer to my wife on Thursday when we were in Vegas and I was like, can Alice see this in your opinion? Um, and she was immediately like, no,

and not because of the content, but because of the speed with which the story is being told. Which I thought was smart on her part. And having seen the movie, it's not for her. She's not even four. But if you're seven, it's kind of a no-brainer if you're looking to kill an afternoon. The thing that I've noticed is, and I'm sure that this is something that is widely understood in the industry, But if you're seven, it's kind of a no-brainer if you're looking to kill an afternoon.

The thing that I've noticed is, and I'm sure that this is something that is widely understood in the industry, but I didn't really care much about this, there's winter break movies and there's summer movies. Yeah, and there's spring break movies. This is the one spring break movie. Well, Super Mario Brothers was also a spring break movie. It was. It was.

So there's winter break movies, one spring break movie, and then summer. And so like this summer we've got How to Train Your Dragon, we've got Elio from Pixar, we've got Lilo and Stitch over the Memorial Day weekend. But there have been these, especially in the last ten years, these big wide open areas where not a lot of movies have opened for children. And it's weird because it almost always works. You know, like if you get Inside Out 2 being the biggest movie of last year, you know, Barbie obviously had a huge kid audience, a sort of sub-15 audience that drove a lot

of box office, a lot of return receipts. It doesn't mean there aren't bombs. Obviously Snow White vastly underperformed. But we saw Mufasa the Lion King stay in theaters for like three months. The greatest showman of 2024. It really was, it really was. And so it kind of makes you wonder,

like certainly you can oversaturate the marketplace, but why there are not like somewhere between three and five more of these a year? Any thoughts on why that is? I mean, I guess inventory. And it's, especially animation, it does, it takes longer to make them. So, and I would say this and Super Mario Brothers are also like the first video game movies that they've really cracked, right?

I mean... Sonic the Hedgehog as well. Oh, sure. Yeah, of course. Which is another... Right, because there have been lots of video game movies for grownups. Yes. Like, you know, whatever's going on with World of Warcraft. You know, all of that stuff.

And Movie Bond, but yeah. Well, no, I mean, but most of those movies don't do well. They're not accepted in terms of quality and also, like, it's been a constant problem. Hollywood can't solve this. Hollywood can't do well. They're not accepted in terms of quality and also like it's been a constant problem. Hollywood can't solve this. Hollywood can't solve this. Well, if you make the children's ones for children, they're very happy. So... It's weird that it took that long to get their heads around that. We're getting a lot of assassins creed and all that stuff. Yeah, Michael Fassbender was in that. That's tough. Now he's just a spy all the time. So that's good. We're okay with it. We'll get to that

eventually. I think... So I was panicking last week. I wasn't actually panicking, but I was kind of shaping the panic. We're trying to figure out, like, what is really going on right now, what is happening. We were also, we were surrounded by it in Vegas. It was very anxious in Vegas. Everybody, and pretty much everybody you talked to in Vegas was like, things are not good, and like actually getting a little scary.

And I don't want, I don't want to fear monger. I felt like I've been trying to get over all that stuff post-COVID, but being confronted by it from other people, I think made it a little feel a little bit complicated. The other thing that happened is qualitatively things are so weak right now. And I was thinking back to last year, which is that at this time last year, we had Challengers, we had Dune Part II, and we had Civil War. Now those were three really well-received movies that also did good business.

They weren't the only movies that did good business. Last year we also had like the Godzilla movie, Godzilla versus Kong movie, for example. Like there were other box office drivers that came. So even just setting aside the fact that the business was more healthy, we were getting stuff in the big picture world. Challengers and Dune Part II both were postponed

because of the strikes. They were. They were originally slated for end of the year, Q4, if you will, since we're wearing our business hats. They were Q4. Q4, 2023? Correct. Yes.

And then because of the strikes and because those are two movies that really need star promotion, specifically Zendaya, they were pushed too early last year. So I wonder if last year was sort of a fluke. Soterios It absolutely could be, and there may be some recency bias. You know, in years past, though, there have been earlier, you know, everything ever roll at once, for example, was like a South by Southwest premiere came out shortly after that. Like we've been talking about how more and more kind of prestigious movies are getting released earlier in the year, and there's not as much of a need to make your Oscar movie

a December movie, for example. I think I was looking around through the first three months of the year and honestly, black bag aside, I thought this is pretty grim, especially on the studio side. This is a really weak crop. And we'd been told by industry reporters who had been filtering takes from studio executives like wait till next year, survive till 25. That was the idea. Right. I kind of neither bought, I didn't buy into that at all.

They didn't survive until September of 2025, you know? Exactly. Exactly. The calendar turned and we were like, okay, we're back. But, you know, and again, in the same way that Challengers and June Part II, okay, we're back. But, you know, and again, in the same way that challengers and June part two, they were finished before the strikes and, you know, got pushed back. We are still kind of living in that trough of,

okay, things couldn't get finished. Where, you know, the inventory is low. And, you know, we heard 25 and we expected things to get going. I gotta say Q1 just across the board in 2025, thumbs down. It was bad. It was bad. I would say Q2 not off to the best start. In terms of movies or life.

Oh, no, that was bad too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The world is in a very perilous state. Like you and I sat there once again in the balcony and we're like, okay, so Q2, we're going to turn things around and then we open to the news apps. So that was bad. Yeah, and I think just to put the cynical bracelets on for five seconds here, is there a better movie

in the universe to come out and to distract us from what's going on to purposefully sort of like Soma us while Tariff Gate 2025 is on, then a Minecraft movie. Like this is a Patty Chayefsky story, that this like brain dead video game adaptation while I sit in my lounger chair on a Saturday night, like I'm in Wally, you know, anesthetizes me to what is clearly like a global financial crisis.

I'm, we don't have to talk about tariffs on this podcast. I'm not an expert on that at all, but it couldn't help but resonate that while things seem very frantic in the outside world, inside the movie world, people are almost like, I need to get away from whatever bad shit is going on. Right. And it worked.

Movies can be that. And I think that they should be that. I hope things in the real world sort themselves out fairly soon. But it's interesting because this came at the same exact time that the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood news hit too. And so obviously I'm tremendously excited about that movie as you are. Love the original film, love Fincher.

I don't love that it's being made for Netflix, but I also fully understand that if not for Netflix, this movie would not be getting made. Because Fincher's the kind of person who can get it made. In all likelihood, Brad Pitt handed a script to David Fincher. Fincher and QT know each other. They all just said yes. They all just said yes.

Some text messages were exchanged. Do you think they're texters or emailers? I'm not sure. OK. I'm not sure. I don't have Brad on text. Nor do I. I can't confirm. But I think, in general, I'm not sure. Okay. I'm not sure. I don't have Brad on text. So nor do I. I can't confirm but I think in general I'm thrilled that that movie is

happening. I can't wait to see it. I can't wait to see it in a movie theater. I can't wait to be able to watch it whenever I want to on the Netflix streaming service. I'm not against that at all. But the movie Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is about trying to get out of the kind of like second tier pit of TV stardom. You know? Like the Rick Dalton character is so desperate to be a movie star and to get elevated out of bounty law.

He's happy to have bounty law, but he wants to be in the great escape. And the irony of shifting this world and these characters, you know, where frankly a movie star is saved at the end by a movie stuntman and a movie actor. It feels a little rough. It feels a little rough, you know? And there are plenty of TV sequels that were born out of, you know, original films, this being like a different version of that. But it furthered my take and the take is this, creatively, TV is in a much better place than movies right now, much better. And there are a lot of reasons for it,

some of which are related to the global financial crisis that we are talking about. Okay, keep going. I don't think I can disagree with you, but I do think it's kind of A, a boring take and... Well, it's one that I usually historically resist hard, but I have watched a bunch of TV this year. I mean, I just think we're... Sorry to be the negative person because I know this is like your therapy session and you had a religious experience at

Minecraft or whatever, but... Neither of those things are true, but okay. I mean, I think we're just in a really rough time. Like, shit's bad. Shit's bad in the world. Shit's bad on our screens. It's just not, like, nothing is being good. But the TV is not bad, though. That's the point that I'm making. I haven't liked any of it. I caught up. With what?

White Lotus. Thumbs down. Uh, I thought the season was okay. I thought the finale was pretty weak. Yeah. I'll give you my full take on everything. So my sense of things was that one of the reasons why TV was so bad was that, one, it was trying to be more like movies, and two, it was expanding at a rate that was unsustainable. More new shows, more movie stars filtering into the shows, more people getting opportunities to write shows,

which is great, but a lot of people were very untested or unseasoned, seasons being expanded, episodes being expanded, a real dilution of the product, and it was just too much. A lot of the, even the prestige stuff, I thought over the last five years has been really, really thing rule. This year, the lineup is this from stuff that has come out.

Severance, The White Lotus, Adolescence, The Studio, and The Pit. Those are probably the five biggest, most, noisiest kind of in our universe shows. They're maybe not the most popular. Like Land Man was huge, for example. There's plenty of stuff even on network TV and on the mainstream streaming services that is really popular, but for our purposes, which is like talking about quality work, that's probably the highest level. There's something to recommend about all five of those shows. You may not individually like all five of those shows, but very rarely am I watching

five different shows and thinking to myself like, wow, they really kind of nailed this. The White Lotus might be the weakest of the five, which is kind of fascinating. I'm only just now getting into the pit. Obviously you should listen to Chris and Andy on the watch. You should listen to the Prest I'm only just now getting into the pit. Obviously, you should listen to Chris and Andy on the watch. You should listen to the Prestige TV podcast. They're covering these shows really closely.

Joe and Rob are covering these shows really closely. I think I'm just a little surprised that the thing that didn't used to work, which is trying to jam high level movie talent into a TV format or would work like every once in a while,

but you would forgive like the big little lies where you would like forgive some of the TV-ness for the quality of having high leverage work. Right. When you watch the studio or when you watch Severance, I'm like, this is as well directed as any movie that has come out in the last three months. That's true.

I mean, the studio is the only TV show I currently like on TV. And it's great. It is also leaning so heavily on movies and the myth making of movies. And it is, I mean, I do understand it's a TV show and a pretty episodic TV show. And then it's just kind of vignettes of like, here's this day and here's what this experience is like. But, you know, both, both the filmmaking language and the actual text, like it's about movies. So it is TV, but it is like borrowing from what, it's somewhere in between adolescence is your classic

like British mini series, somewhere between TV, somewhere between movie. I mean, I know that it's episodic, but it's short. It's four hours though. It's not 98 minutes. Right, and I understand that it couldn't be 98 minutes, that it wouldn't be effective in that way, but it is also, it's not the pit.

It's not, you know, it's not, which is like bringing back your beloved 90s, like medical ER drama, but with great filmmaking. And the puppet that recreates live childbirth, which is why I will never watch that episode. It's a hard set. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I haven't seen that episode,

but just the show in general is incredibly challenging. But the point you're making is why I'm feeling this way, which is that there's different modes that are successful right now. It could just be a blip. It could just be, you already described how like the calendar was such that it was hard for movies to get done in a certain period of time. So we had a dip the first three months of the year. Historically is not usually a very good bellwether for the quality of the movies for the entire year. There's Emmy windows to consider here for some of these shows. This is an unusually strong crop to me.

But also, I understand that White Lotus and Severance are like the most popular and the water cooleriest, and that's what like everyone's talking about. But those are both second and third season with a lot of time spent and a lot of frustration from the viewers of how that time is being spent. And it's like a very classic bullshit TV thing where it's just like, the longer you try to stretch something out, you keep, you know, going back, like how much more can we get out of this

diminishing returns? But that's the same thing that I was complaining about with movies and why a Minecraft movie works. But the problem is, is that the new thing that we're getting at movies is a Minecraft movie. And the new thing that we're getting on TV is White Lotus Season Three, which is maybe not ultimately as satisfying as you want it to be, but incredibly well-made, well-cast, pretty interesting. Through five and a half episodes, I was like, this is quite good.

Right. So look, it is my life's mission to be the number one defender of movies, but I watch closely. But that's apples and oranges, because really what you're getting on TV that is comparable to Minecraft is, like, Love is Blind and Traders.

In terms of the number of people who are seeing it and... But production value is different. Like, I make this comparison because of budget and priority at the studio. You know, like, the White Lotus is the most important thing happening at HBO until the Last of Us. And it does have a tremendous number of brand tie-ins. So it does.

It is very financially important to that streamer, just like a Minecraft movie, which is owned by the same company, is very important to that. Now, eyeballs, you're right. Yeah, there's so much dumb shit on TV that gets huge audiences. Right. I'm not defending any of that stuff. I watch a little bit of it. But to me,, when you're talking about the playing field, you're literally talking about like, Chris Ryan always talks about how one of the problems with comic movies is they've taken so many great actors off the board in the last 10 years.

You know, like, your Chris Hemsworths just have not had a chance to even explore his potential as a movie star because he has so much commitment as Thor. This is the same thing. You know, there is something happening. Like Sam Rockwell being like, I'm going to Thailand for three months to go do two episodes and be with my wife on the White Lotus is beautiful.

And I love them. That just seems like thriving. That just seems like great decisions. For him, I'm sure it's great. He's going to win an Emmy. He was outstanding on the show. He's always outstanding. But he wasn't in a movie. You know what I mean? Sure. Like there is like, there is a give and take here. So obviously I make a big show of like,

don't watch TV. TV sucks a lot of the time. But for me, like when I see adolescents and someone like Stephen Graham, who's like, is a big movie actor, making that the priority in his work, and then that becoming... I don't know if that's... I think that's like, among the most watched series that Netflix has ever... It is. Yes. Just like, instant. And, you know, also like, the power of just... Look what happens when you put something good on Netflix.

I know you're very upset about the Netflix-ification of Fincher and Tarantino. I'm not very upset. Yeah, well, you just spend a lot of time just being like, I, you know. I would prefer it be in movie theaters, you know? I think Netflix should be putting it in front of people and, frankly, making more money that way.

OK. But you're right. But look at how many people. You put a good show. Yeah, absolutely. And so many people found it, and way more people found it than would have found it in a movie theater. It's not a movie also.

So, you know, we're, I don't know what to say about the in-between things and that there is sort of like this possibility of like a four hour at home streaming quasi-TV, quasi-movie sensation that a hundred million people like watch and talk about. You almost can't plan for it. Yeah, but also it's like, I guess that's bad for movies, but also is it?

I mean, at some point we're just, I don't know, if people respond to it, it's art. I think ultimately what I'm trying to get at is not like, oh, this is so bad for movies. It's just that I rarely think TV is better than movies. And at this exact moment in time, this past quarter that has sucked in the world at large, it feels notable.

And maybe things will bounce back shortly. You know, honestly, we have warfare on Friday and sinners the Friday after that. Yeah. And what is coming in the last week of, oh, and Havoc on Netflix, unfortunately, and a handful of other movies that are coming out in April that I've seen and that I really like and that I'm really excited for. I don't know if they're going to be like massive hits on the order of Barbie, but it's going to be fine. I'm just noting that for one time in the seven years that we've been making the show, we're in second place, man.

Like, there's just no getting around it. We're in second, the big thing to cheer about is a Minecraft movie, which it- I liked your positivity, get back to it. Okay, well- You know, you started- I can't, I can't. You were in a happy place. I have to close the loop on the take, okay? I mean, like it's, like, it's- It's bad. It's bleak out there.

It's tough. The closed loop is, one of the reasons why TV was so bad is that the comic book movie machine and Star Wars and IP kind of got sucked into TV during the pandemic. Right, right, right. Initially spurred on by Bob Iger who then left and Bob Chapek pushed all those stories across. Nobody likes those shows for the most part. They have kind of messed with the timelines of a lot of the storytelling and they kind of

like pulled down movies from the inside because they kind of like the comic book movie apparatus like basically started to go like this once they started going on TV all the time. And that clearly got me thinking that like something that is obvious but I'm going to say it because of what's happening in the world right now, which is that the globalization of movies, which started in the 1970s when Jaws went wide and Star Wars became a phenomenon, was further through the 1990s and then reached a kind of, I guess a kind of apex in the parlance of Bill Simmons

in the 2010s when the Chinese box office became so important to U.S. movies. And what played in China was Marvel, Jurassic World, The Fast and the Furious, Avatar, et cetera, et cetera. These kind of like, kind of wordless franchises, movies that play. Yes, Spectacle. Spectacle, yes.

Beyond Spectacle, identifiable brand, minimum story, continuity that keeps you on the daisy chain of content. That built up expectation from a, you know, basically a stock portfolio perspective, pushed out all the stuff that we like, all the middle stuff. And now it's just haves and have nots. It's just indie and spectacle stuff. And also at least the Chinese box office has completely disappeared because they learned

how to make movies from Hollywood and now just make movies for their audiences that their audiences prefer. Yes, Niza 2 is the highest grossing movie in the world right now. It's a Chinese production, an animated film that has made over a billion dollars. Almost the entirety of its haul has come from China. So they picked up our tricks.

They're doing our thing better than we are in their home country. They don't need our movies. In fact, they don't even show all of our movies anymore. It's like a battle to get onto a lot of screens there, even though they have more screens than any nation in their home country. They don't need our movies. In fact, they don't even show all of our movies anymore. It's like a battle to get onto a lot of screens there, even though they have more screens than any nation in the world. We got fat on that money.

Executives got fat almost literally off of that growth. A number of things happened, movie theater retraction, COVID, all this stuff that went down. In the process of that, appetites lost interest in going out to a movie theater attraction, COVID, all this stuff that went down. In the process of that, Appetite's lost interest in going out to a movie theater for a movie like Black Bag, movies like Black Bag become streaming movies now. Streamers make them directly. There's no box office incentive. I'm obviously rehashing like basically the long 10 year arc of the book that I'm

going to write at some point in my life, but. It's interesting that, like, we really need a Minecraft movie or Barbie or Sonic the Hedgehog to revive. And you'll get an Oppenheimer every once in a while. Yeah. That can still happen. And when it happens, I'm going to sing it from the rooftops. But it's not reversible without intellectual property at the moment, without eventization, without familiarity, without chicken jockey.

Right. And even though I'm very happy that Jen Alpha has their Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, that's really what this is. This is when 1990, we'll be doing a 1990 movie draft next week. In 1990, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie came out. I was there. I saw it in the theater, Having the time of my life. The turtles were like relatively new at that time.

I think they were created in the 80s. And I was really into the animated series. They had a TV show first though. They did. But when they made that live action series, like a live action Minecraft movie, I was like, this is amazing. Adult critics who saw Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were like, we're so fucked. We are so fucked that this is what kids want.

But it did help and it did become like kind of a pathway to a certain kind of storytelling over the next 25 years. So this is our version of that. And I wanna mark it in time, even though I have some regret about it. I've shifted my doomsday feelings a little bit in this conversation. I was gonna be like really a negative Nellie.

We're screwed. A real Debbie Downer. And now Chicken Jockey has given you life. Well, it's just changed my state of mind about it. Okay. And it has made me maybe accept my middle-agedom. Well, that's good. If we've achieved nothing, you know, we've at least achieved personal acceptance on the fact that you're 42.

Do you think, you know, September, October hits, we get Mission Impossible, we get, you know, Superman, whatever that may be, plus or minus. We get one battle after another. We get some actual movies that we care about that people maybe wanna see in the box office. I don't know whether Sinners hits or Warfare hits, but some things that aren't Minecraft

hit at the box office. What's our version of Nosferatu and... Yeah. ...A Complete Unknown in December? Right. Then are you just gonna be like, I was freaking out for nothing? Mmm...

No, because I think I'm right. It doesn't mean that there won't be middle ground cool movies that make a hundred million dollars. I'm not saying that's over. It's not over. In fact, I hope there are more of them. I hope there are more Nosferatu's where they're like, we're gonna give a really interesting filmmaker 50 million dollars,

because we think it can make 200 million dollars. But what I am nervous about, what I've been nervous about, is we're going to give, you know, a perfectly fine comedy director $180 million with the hope that we make a movie that makes $700 million. Those are the gambles that have it feeling like you did it in the casino last weekend. You know, where you were just like, I'm so anxious and so uncomfortable. And that's what it's like,

like working in a movie studio right now. You're just like so anxious and uncomfortable. No, I mean, I would not want to be them. That scene at the end of the first episode of the studio where the Seth Rowan character is just like, I'm miserable all the time and I want to throw up and the Catherine O'Hara character is like, yeah, it seems like the worst job in the world. They apparently still want it. In a million years,

you couldn't get me to do that. It sounds awful. And it does really just seem like the numbers are fucked. As you said, early 2010s, everything got so out of control and you can make billions of dollars. And now everyone's stocks and corporate structures and ownership and debt, whatever, are raised in such a way where you have to go make 700, 800, 900, a billion dollars. I thought it was very funny at CinemaCon. Every executive would come out and, you know,

they all had like made up stats trumpeting how well their movies had done it. And it was like, we made almost 1.3 billion and we were the second studio to do 1.6 billion. And they were all just doing like the point somethings because no one could get to two, but one wasn't good enough anymore. One number that was said it was 4.5 billion.

And I'm like, that's not a round number. That's not a meaningful number. It's a number. It's just like, it's the most that we could get to, to sound significant because those are the expectations now. And I don't envy anyone. And so we're in a world of, yeah, like Minecraft's or nothing. Yeah.

Familiar but new. Yeah. That's the whole ball game. And that stinks. Well, it can be okay if it's Barbie. You know, like Barbie wasn't my favorite movie of that year, but I liked it. And I'm glad, I'm really glad it happened.

I'm not, I'm certainly not mad that a Minecraft movie happened when we're here in nine years reviewing a Minecraft movie seven, then I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna bleed out. Like that's just, I'm just gonna movie bleed out. It's gonna be a bad scene. It's okay because the four Beatles movies will have saved cinema Yeah, you know you think they'll be out in nine years. Oh, they better be okay better be um

Yeah, I don't know I'm trying to not do like a meltdown because it's not a meltdown I think it's a meltdown. I think it's a therapy session. I think it's you observing and accepting things in real time. I give this a lot of thought. And paying penance a little bit for just your 10 years of superhero gluttony. And just being like, I love it. It's awesome. No. You weren't like that. You were very...

I was individually critical when I felt it was necessary. But when I liked something, I tried to say, here's why I like it. And then it got way more cynical than I had realized it was going to get. But you're right that I am kind of paying a penance, because my enthusiasm contributed to leading us to this place. Sure, as did everyone's.

And it's a real, you get what you want, and then it just has to keep going. Buyers remorse. Yeah, there you go. Do you think you'll see a Minecraft movie? Maybe I'll check it out on streaming. You know? It will be on the Mac service, but probably not for a while. Okay, because they're gonna-

I think there will be a firm window on this one. Yeah, they're gonna buy the window. I don't know whether I'll go to the theater. What's your thought on your kids, your boys playing video games? I'm gonna hold it off for as long. Do you think it will happen? As soon as possible.

I don't know. I try to be realistic, but also I have been surprised by how much we've been able to avoid stuff I'm not interested in thus far. I know he's only three, but I, I know at some point they're going to be surrounded by it and I don't. Kindergarten is really the word. Yeah.

Sets in. Video games starting in kindergarten. I just mean getting exposed to things that other kids really like and then them talking about it and then it coming home. Yeah. So, you know, if they go to someone else's house, what am I gonna do? But I think probably not in our house

as for as long as I can possibly do it. I mean... I ask because obviously the success of this movie is informed by this kind of like legacy love. Yeah. This thing like I got exposed to this when I was six, I've been playing it. Right.

And I'm 16 now and And look what we got. We got my thing that I like. And you know, like there was news this morning that it's just like, we're going to put a Fortnite movie in development. You know, like everything that is kind of in this rich terrain will then get developed and put out into the world. I was very fond of saying when I was at the beginning of my, I don't know about the beginning of my career, at a time in my career where I was like, I'm I was at the beginning of my, I don't know about the beginning of my career,

at a time in my career where I was like, I'm not gonna go hungry. I was really grateful to my parents that they let me indulge my interests, that they let me watch a lot of television, they let me watch a lot of sports, that they pushed me to play sports, that they let me collect VHS tapes, and that they bought

me an NES when I was like seven. Because spending all that time in those worlds, it not only bolstered my enthusiasm, but it prepared me for my professional life. And I think if there were strong guardrails around that, I maybe would not have been able to find something that I really care about. And it's hard to get a career in something you really care about. That's like a mass psychosis inside of the American dream. It's like, as long as you love something and work hard at it, you'll get it, which is of

course not true. So setting aside my good fortune, I'm always at war with this now that I'm a parent. Yeah. I don't think you can set aside your good fortune. I think it's actually insane how much we lucked out and that our job is seeing and watching. And I try to think about that every day. And even as I bitch about having to see all of these movies

that I wouldn't, it's not how I would choose to spend my time on my own. That's my job. And I think, I hope that our kids get to do something that they're passionate about. But like, I don't know if I can. I don't know. I think I'm trying to prepare them to have like a rich and, you know, in an enjoyment sense, a spiritual sense, not a financial sense, though that would be great, but it doesn't look good out there.

It's not a good week for that. A fulfilling life. That's strategy. Yeah. Yeah. And... You don't think sitting in a movie theater at Saturday at 9 p.m. is a fulfilling way to spend your time?

No, I've sat in a movie theater at 9 a.m. like many times. It's actually 11 because that's when the Academy does its family screenings and that's compatible with nap time. Thank you so much to the Academy or the Academy Museum So yeah, he's not in a movie theater plenty of times. I don't know whether I think like Five hours a day in front of a video game is this set up to a fulfilling life and maybe he'll become a video game designer I read

What what's the movie not everything everywhere all at once? What's the book? designer. I read what's the movie? Not Everything Everywhere All at Once. What's the book? Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow. Didn't really like it, but that's okay because many people did and those people had a rich life building video games. So that would be quite a turn if one of your children is a video game designer. I would enjoy that. Yeah, you know what? Sy is like very responsive to to like the graphics in a book. He's just like really clawing at them. He is also trying to get everything in his mouth right now, but I do feel like there's something visual going, like artistic going on with him. You gotta keep those Legos away from him right now.

I mean, how do people do this where you have the three-year-old toys with all the parts and then you have like a six-month-old who's just like, let me jam everything into my mouse. I don't know. You know what? You're never gonna find out. Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about some good movies. Thank you for indulging all of those big ideas. You're welcome. Do you feel...

So you've never really been in therapy, so like... No, that's not true. Well, I was when I was a teenager. Okay. Well, all right. What do you feel like you learned? About what? Yeah, like what's your takeaway from this session that we just did? I wouldn't say you were like a very generous therapist. That's the first thing I would say.

It's a different school. I'm pushing back. This is more like academic study for me. I just happen to have like a little bit of a manic personality on the podcast when we talk about this stuff, but I'm really trying to understand how everything fits together because I'm hopeful for a long-term future.

So what did I learn? It's mostly a positive takeaway, which is that I saw a ton of kids losing their minds in a movie theater, which is something I really value. You know, actually, I think that's great. Yeah, yeah. And it wasn't... A Minecraft movie is not awful.

It's not evil. That's good. You. And it wasn't a Minecraft movie is not awful. It's not That's good. You know what I mean? Yes. It's kind of it's lighthearted and fun and silly and right It's not that craven thing that free guy is where by the time you got to the end of that movie And I know a lot of people felt that movie was very fun And I overreacted but the end of that movie to me was the most cynical thing you could do which was just like This original story is not enough for your dead brain So let me put something in front of you that makes you feel like I know what you really want.

It's not me, but Captain America. I hated that. Anyhow, I think it's ultimately a positive. What did I learn about myself? I'm over-indexed on caring about movies. Can you identify these five people for us? Sure, this is Danielle Brooks. She plays a real estate agent slash portable zoo meister.

She carries, she drives animals around. Okay. So there's a big animal farm element in Minecraft. There are a lot of Minecraft creatures, yes. Among pink sheep, for example, these evil pigs, chickens. Oh, okay. Are there any just like nice animals? Most of the animals are nice. Okay. The guys that are bad are those pigs in the other dimension and then also at night

the evil Frankensteins and skeletons come out and you have to battle them. Okay. Honestly, I thought some of the effects work was pretty good. Okay, cool. There's Jack Black, he plays Steve. He's sort of the Christopher Columbus of the Minecraft world, I would say. Oh great, that's not problematic. Which is to say he is an interloper who has arrived into a quote unquote new land that he is going to colonize in his own mind, but he's not the originator of that land. Jason Momoa, that's a garbage man. He wears a pink leather jacket with fringes throughout the entire film.

Yeah, honestly looks cool. That is Henry. Henry is the young boy, and that's his sister whose name escapes me. The actress's name is Emma Myers. Okay. She's supposed to be like 24. Okay, yeah, she's doing social media for the company.

She looks like 14 in the movie. Again, this is why I was like, are you sure it's nine to 10 year olds in your screening? Is it teenagers? It was probably like 53 year old men, and I just couldn't tell because they were hooting and hollering. Okay.

Minecraft movie is not going to make the best movies of the year so far, Lest. Okay. I did do a lot of work here. Yeah. I tried to. This expanded and there are several movies that I, I've heard of most of these.

One or two I hadn't though. The shutter stuff, you know, that's your time. Yeah. Yeah. And green salt for everything here. We've mentioned Black Bag a couple of times already. It's been the easy one to point to. There it is. It came out just two and a half weeks ago in cinemas

and it's already on VOD. So if people want to rent it there, they can. This is Steven Soderbergh's second feature film this year. You know, we didn't have the in-depth conversation about the plotting of the movie. I think because it was such a twisty movie and I had my doubts about its potential box office performance, so what I didn't want to do was do an hour of conversation about the movie and then people would be like, you fucking ruined this movie for me. Yeah.

Is there anything in this movie that we didn't get into that you want to talk about? In terms of reveals? Yeah, just the way it's structured, how it's done. You know, I think it's both very twisty-turny and also ultimately, like in Agatha Christie, like we're all around a dinner table and, you know, it's going to be, I accuse you, I accuse you. Which is very fun. It has, even though it ultimately is the dinner room

scene, it does have that like Soderbergh, Ocean's Eleven, had it all flashback, putting the pieces together, which is so satisfying. Also, the lie detector stuff, that entire sequence, is just absolutely elite filmmaking, acting, editing, very funny. So I guess maybe plot wise, I'm not sure I expected the solution necessarily.

I don't know whether it was like the most I don't know whether it was like the most... naughty and satisfying plot-wise conclusion with respect to Pierce Brosnan. You know, I think that we knew that. We knew something was up there. But, um... I just, it was so well made and acted

that I didn't really care. I did feel like for a movie that's so plot, I didn't care about the plot that much. Do you think that matters? Like, is it because Soderbergh is the king of the exercise. Yeah. You know? You know, the movie that is being reclaimed of his right

now and is being released on 4K is The Good German, which is a movie that I don't think is very good. It works at all. It is a kind of exercise in a post-Casablanca style of filmmaking. And one of the things that the movie got dinged for was like, this just kind of feels like a guy moving magnets on a refrigerator. These are just pieces that are being moved around

and not actually human experience. And yet I do feel that sort of very romantic as a filmmaker, very intellectually probing as a filmmaker. Presence is like very upsetting at times in terms of what it's exploring. So the exercise is tricky because I agree that there was like, the final five minutes of Blackpac might have been my least favorite part of the movie. Well, I can't...

Maybe that's a writing issue and not a directing issue. I honestly think it might be a performance issue. There's, you know, that's a table of heavyweights. And then there's one person who. Are you saying Roger Jean-Page is not up for? Well, he's no Marcevella, you know what I'm saying? By the way, just casting her as the coder is still the funniest thing that's ever happened.

Yes. Or the coder or the satellite tech expert, whatever. A really, really, really good sense of humor. So for me, that was kind of the, you know, both he and Pierce Brosnan are like showing their hand a little bit. A little transparent. Yeah. Early in the film.

I agree. I wonder how purposeful that is. You know, sometimes you're watching a Vincent Price movie and you're like, well, Vincent Price isn't in this movie. He's gonna do some bad shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't know. I think this is a great movie about marriage.

I found it ultimately to be a very romantic movie and I think that's what it's about. So that they kinda yadda yadda the end of the murder mystery, like who cares? I think people should watch it. I think it's awesome. I do think that, you know, Universal needs how to train your dragon to be a big hit

so that we can get more blackbecks. Okay. So, go see how to train your dragon. I thought the dragons looked pretty real. Pretty real? Relatively, the real dragons you've encountered? I don't know. Just like, what's in my head? You had never seen a how to Train Your Dragon animated feature, right? No, I hadn't. I mean, I...

It was like shot for shot. Sure. But they did actually in one of the reels, they started with the animated film and then like faded into the exact shot recreation in the live one. And you were moved by that? I was like, oh, I get it.

I feel like I got the lay of the land pretty quickly without having seen the animated version. And is that land you'd want to live in? I don't know. I'm not like a... I don't think I would like to drink mead, you know? So anywhere where they're serving mead is... Not a Viking gal. No. You know.

What about a Norse goddess riding a winged Pegasus? I don't think so. I mean, I have dark hair, so I think that excludes me from whatever is going on there. You're more of a witch, right, in that Norse mythology. Sure, yeah. Okay. The dragon, when they were fighting the dragon? Sure.

If that's how you get your kicks, go for it. Absolutely. I'm going to give you a couple of movies that I enjoyed. Yeah. With varying degrees of mixed. Okay. Misericordia is a new French film. It's probably the most acclaimed movie of the year. I believe it debuted at... It was definitely at the Fall Fest Festival. I can't recall which Fall Festival it was at. I want to say that it was at Cantu, but it's Alain Girard's new film.

He made Stranger by the Lake, which is a very eerie, upsetting serial killer queer thriller that came out in 2014. This is very much in the same lineage as that movie. It's about a strange guy who comes back to his hometown to see what's going on after there's been a death of someone that he knows in his hometown. I'll spoil it for you right now. He just starts killing people in often extremely brutal and emotionally dead ways. This is a deeply upsetting, very intellectually probing movie.

But it's not like you're cheering when he's killing people. You're like, oh, that's fucked up. I would say that these are not earned deaths. Oh, okay. That there's something deeply wrong with this guy who's played by Felix Keisel. Well, I just meant sometimes you go see a movie

in order to watch like really brutal kill scenes and like, and be like, yeah. Yeah, there's movie death and then there's movie murder But sometimes you go see a movie in order to watch like really brutal kill scenes and like and be like, yeah. Yeah, there's movie death. And then there's there's movie murder. And then there's real murder. Movie murder is often elegant and thrilling and cut to make you excited or titillated right or to scare you and to be shrieking, like make you shriek. And real murder is blunt and kind of quiet

and upsetting and emotionally distancing. Okay. This movie is getting closer to real murder. Okay, well that sounds upsetting. So I don't know if that's a huge recommendation. It's a movie for the sickos in many ways, but I thought it was extremely effective. I think people should check it out.

He's not, as a filmmaker, he's not really like a question answerer. He's just sort of like, there is evil in the world. And I tend to agree. Much like me. You are the evil in the world? No, well, sure, if you want. Total flip side of that coin,

this is a movie that I want you to watch. And if you don't't like it it's okay but I want to know what you think about it. It's called The Ballad of Wallace Island. Right, it stars Carey Mulligan. It stars Carey Mulligan. I'm going to read the names of the folks who it also stars because that's relatively important because they're also the writers. So it's written by Tim Key and Tom Basden in the Air of the Stars. Kerry Mulligan is a supporting character. Here's the premise of the movie. Tom Basden plays a early 40s singer-songwriter,

English guy, who's been called to a remote island to give a performance for a very small crowd. He's being paid a large sum of money and there is a desire for him to play some of his old stuff, not just the new stuff. He's greeted at the shore of the island. There's not even a port of any kind. He's greeted at the shores of the island by this guy played by Tim Key, who is shepherding him, housing him, clearly a big fan of his.

And he leads him to his estate, which is essentially a castle, which housing him, clearly a big fan of his. And he leads him to his estate, which is essentially a castle, which he's treating as a hotel for this guy played by Baston. It becomes very clear very quickly that this guy is paying entirely for this artist to come and perform for him and him alone. And that there are no people on this island, and that he is a super fan.

So is this a horror movie? No. And that's the thing is when I explain that setup, your first instinct will be that sounds creepy as fuck, but it's not. In fact, it's probably the sweetest movie I've seen this year. Arguably too sweet. It's quite saccharine, but very effective. And the turn of the key on the story is that this guy that Bazden plays was a member of a duo

in the 2000s and Carey Mulligan was the other half of his duo. They were a male, female singer songwriter team and they were also a couple. They have since split. They're not in touch. She shows up the next day at the island with her new husband. They live in Oregon together.

Okay. And they have to figure out how to make it work on the island because they're being paid a vast sum of money, and she really needs the money. He maybe doesn't need the money as much, and he's quite dismayed by this circumstance. Okay. The chemistry of these actors is great.

It's very Sundance-y. I'm not saying it's not. It's very chemistry of these actors is great. It's very Sundance-y. I'm not saying it's not. It's very John Carney. How is the music? Pretty good. Okay. Pretty good.

But in what flavor? It's not transcendent. Yeah. Well, it's not my favorite genre of movie. Of music. Yeah, sorry, of music. Yeah. It is a genre of movie that I like quite a bit.

It's not my favorite genre of music. There's a kind of... It I like quite a bit. It's not my favorite genre of music. There's a kind of It's like lollipop folk. Yeah, I just came up with that in my head five seconds ago, but that's you know what I mean I listen I know what you mean, and I knew what you meant before I even asked the question which is why I asked it Yeah, and I'm not saying that the reason it goes to watch Baz didn't play full guitar. Okay And I'm not saying that the reason to go is to watch Bazdin play full guitar. Okay. Jesus Christ. But it doesn't happen as much as you think it does. And what's interesting to me about the story is kind of what happens to a person

who's an artist and really famous, and then life goes on. Like, 10 years go by and you're still that guy from 2009. When I was writing about music and covering music, I'll give you an example. One of the best experiences I ever had with a band was Franz Ferdinand. I spent an afternoon with Franz Ferdinand right when they were hitting after their first album leading into their second album. I profiled them I think for Spin. Can't remember. And I just had the best time. They were incredibly cool guys. They were very inviting to me. I was hanging out in the lead singer's apartment for the day. And I'll always like that band, not just because I like their music and I wanted that assignment because I like their music

but because I liked them and I had a nice connection with them and So when I listen to those songs I feel good. Yeah The Tim Key character has an even deeper connection to the music by the artists that bass and the mulligan play in the movie And I got it. Music matters. It's beautiful. It carves a little niche into your life. Now I just have Take Me Out, just like playing in my head.

Yeah, banger, incredible song. You might watch it and be like, Sean, you should be shot publicly, but maybe not. Probably won't. Okay. Let me tell you about the assessment. Okay. This is an interesting one. Not really your bag, but very important conversation topic for us.

So it's soft science fiction. Okay. It stars Elizabeth Olsen, Alicia Vikander, and Himes Patel. Sure. Almost entirely them, although we do have Indira Varma and Minnie Driver and a handful of supporting characters. Okay. them, although we do have Indira Varma and Minnie Driver and a handful of supporting characters. Set in the future, they live, they're scientists and they

live in kind of like a remote locale near the water, but it also has a kind of like mountain terrain and I don't like the mountains, stick with me. I like the mountains when they're near the water. Oh. Yeah. Okay. Like Los Angeles. Interesting. The movie is directed by someone named Flor Fortun. Never heard of this person before. The assessment that is transpiring is, in this near future, you need to be assessed as to whether or not

you're fit to have a child. Okay. Vikander is the assessor. Elizabeth Olsen and Himish Patel are the couple. She visits them in this remote locale and she's meant to spend a week with them to assess whether or not they are fit for childbearing. The way in which she does this is she essentially becomes a child in the house and monitors

their ability to navigate the experience of the child. So like, does Alicia Vikander take over an animatronic baby? No, she as an adult acts like a three-year-old. Oh, okay. I'll just say, the movie is... is very stylish. The production design's great. It's well shot. Performances are good.

Mm-hmm. Elizabeth Olsen is clearly working very hard to put, you know, Wanda in the rear view. His three daughters is another example of this where she's just trying a totally different performance style. The movie is worth seeing because Alicia Vikander is a three-year-old girl in the movie. And I know because I have a three-year-old girl in my house. And the tantrums and the defiance and the love and the confusion, the emotional confusion that she shows is crazy.

Now, Alicia Vikander is also a mother of young children. Right. And so that's obviously very informed by being a parent. If it was not, I would be stunned. It would be impossible to give this performance if you do not have kids. You might not even like where the movie nets out, but I was like knocked out and kind of terrified

by her ability to become a tiny child while also still being beautiful Alicia. But then it does vary into the night bitch conversation of. Do you want to spend your spare time exploring this deeply traumatic part of it? It does. It's the same terrain. Yeah, it's like the same terrain. Yeah. I put the three year old to bed and then. Well, one of its conclusions, and this isn't a spoiler, I don't think, is just that no

one is fit to do this. That no one is suited to handle these circumstances. Like feeling bad and the experience of parenting is a feature and not a bug. You know? That like the idea that you're never going to be perfect at these things, but then what if you were confronted by someone who told you your imperfection makes you invalid? Right. Is hard. It's hard information here. Anyway, I thought it was a really interesting movie. I think it could have been better, but it hit me at the right time in my life. Okay. That's what I'll say. I think maybe it's

helpful that I'm like, I kind of, as you know, I kind of like exited a hard era of parenting. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I like exited a hard era of parenting. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm in like a positive era of parenting. Right, right, right, right. So. Have you found that like the whole numbers or like the three and a halfs are easier? I find, I found two and a half to three to be great.

I found three to three and a half to be impossible. So you're finding the whole numbers to be difficult. And yes, and I'm finding three and a half to four to be wonderful. Okay. And I think that was similar when she was one to two. What do you do? Are you having a different experience? No, I just... People feel very strongly about like the ones,

like the haves are tough and the holes are, you know, but I can never remember which one. I mean, I just, you know, I have a three year old boy who is like Sonic the Hedgehog, you know? So it's, it just is what it is. I never forget a conversation I had with a parent who was like the daughter of a neighbor of mine

who came outside, she had two young boys and she came outside and she was like, and her boys were running around and being crazy. And she was like, they tell you it's terrible twos, it's not terrible twos. They tell you it's three nager, it's not three nager. The thing is four NATO. Four NATO is the thing that they don't tell you about,

because you get through three and you're like, I did it. I have a big kid. And then four. So I have been protecting myself. Sealing yourself? Yes. Okay. Just in case.

Now I have a girl. Girls are different. Yeah. And I'm hopeful that we got through the worst of it. But this movie conjured those feelings in a very specific way. Anyway. I think you're doing great. That's my assessment.

Thanks. Thanks. We're doing our best. Seven Veils. I'm mixed on this movie, but I want to recommend it. Um, this is a new movie from... We live in hell. I know, I know. It's not great.

Uh, new movie from Adam Magoyan, legendary Canadian filmmaker, sweeter after Exotica, um, number of other movies. He made a movie in 2013, I want to say, called Chloe with Amanda Seyfried and Julianne Moore, you may remember. It's kind of an erotic thriller about a young woman who's obsessed with an older woman. This is a reunion with Amanda Seyfried who plays a theater director who's trying to navigate a complicated relationship in her life, her ability to have power. This movie has a podcasting element that I found very amusing. She's confronted by an interviewer on a podcast who's

raising some challenging questions for her. The reason to see it I think is Cypherd, who's like favorite of mine. I don't know if you watched the clip of her on Jimmy Fallon playing the musical instrument singing Joni Mitchell. Oh, I did watch that. And then I thought you were gonna say, I don't know if you watched the clip of her on Vogue doing her Get Ready with Me and talking about her eczema. It was great. She has eczema? She does. And so, and shout out to her. She just starts like absolutely nothing on the face.

And so you can see some of the eczema. So I watched it cause I was like, oh, I'm also dealing with some postpartum stuff. And you know, obviously an incredibly beautiful person, but I saw both clips. Interesting. I really enjoy how she uses her fame to make stuff like this pretty continuously. And then we'll like do like a Hulu crime show that stinks and then be like, okay, I gotta get how she uses her fame to make stuff like this pretty continuously.

And then we'll like do like a Hulu crime show that stinks and then be like, okay, I gotta get this Adam McGrogan movie made. She was on stage at CinemaCon during the Lionscape presentation because she's going to be in that movie, The Housemaid, directed by Paul Feig. And it was Brandon Sklinar from It Ends With Us and The Forthcoming Drop, which opens this weekend. Sidney Sweeney and Paul Feig and Amanda Seyfried. And Sidney Sweeney was treating her like she was Katharine Hepburn. She was like, this is my goat.

This is the actor for whom I want to have a career like. Like she was hailing her. Yeah. Which is interesting because, is Amanda Seyfried even 40? She's 39. Oh, yeah. Sydney Sweeney is very good at telling things. So that's one thing to keep in mind.

But Amanda Seyfried rules. Big fan of hers. You ever seen her Architectural Digest home tour? No. Oh, yes. Is it like in upstate New York? No, this was the one of the New York apartment. And so it just like, and so they have just like a lot of closets and stuff

where she's, you know, hidden things. And then she's like, yep, here's another place where I hid some stuff. When she was on the pod, she was zooming in from her barn. Yeah. I think they spend a lot of time in the barn. Um, she, she's. She's pretty great. Okay, next one, On Becoming a Guinea Fowl. Again, a little mixed on this movie, but it has a lot to recommend.

824 released earlier this year was a can last year. Rangano and Yanni is the director. This is a Zambian production with clearly some US financing. It's about a woman who is driving one night on her way to a party and discovers her dead uncle's body in the street. The ramifications of her uncle's death hit like a bomb in the community that she lives in. It sounds very serious and at times it is like gravely serious but there is like an oddball absurdist quality to some of the filmmaking.

I saw this at Videots with a packed house and had a really good experience seeing it. I think the performance of Susan Shardy as the lead character Shula is really really good. This is a real like like, I wanna see the next filmmaker, this next movie, but wanted to give it a quick shout out. One of them, Days, which is now like one of the most popular movies on Netflix, Netflix streaming service. Also definitely one of the best movies that we have seen this year in theaters.

Probably the second best studio movie of the year. I chuckled throughout. Did Great Business, another movie why I don't understand why there are not more movies like it. Lawrence Lamont directed, it's produced by Issa Rae, stars SZA and Kiki Palmer. Very funny. No other thoughts?

We talked about it. We did. With Yasi. And we were like, this is really great. Every single one of the bits works. Incredible chemistry between Kiki Palmer and SZA, SZA in her film debut. Crazy. Really, really, really funny.

Yeah. Reminds me a lot of Chris Tucker showing up in Friday. Obviously Friday is a huge inspiration for that movie, but when Chris Tucker showed up in Friday, I want to say I was 12 when that movie came out, I was like, what the fuck is that? I know who SZA is, but you know what I mean. Yeah.

Presence? Yeah, Steven Soderbergh. Also on VOD right now. Two for two. Two for two. This is a ghost story about a house and a family that moves into a new house and the ghosts inside their past

and the literal ghost inside of their house. I enjoyed your interview with my friend Steven, but he talks about, because he does all the camera work for this, which is essential to the film. And so just imagining him like tiptoeing around in grippy socks, like really changes the, like you should see it again

once you have that image in your head, cause it's really, really quite amusing. I was so glad that I thought to ask him that question and he had such a specific answer. But also like Steven Soderbergh as the ghost of this family with the camera is an amazing, amazing concept and exercise all its own. Isn't it also a perfect metaphor

for how he sees himself in the world? Yes. You know, as this like ghost haunting humanity as he tells his stories. I really enjoyed that. A couple of quick Shudder ones. I wanted to give some love to The Dead Thing, which is my friend Elric Kane's directorial debut,

which is on Shudder right now. Which I won't spoil it for anybody who hasn't had a chance to check it out yet, but is a fascinating parable about the perils of dating apps. And the challenges of meeting new people in the world. In 2025, I am very grateful to be married. It does seem tough out there. Meeting strangers in strange places

and them thinking they know things about you is something that I find troubling. I guess the only time you would have had that when we were younger would have been if you were going on a blind date and a friend told you some information about that person. I guess maybe you could respond to a classified ad and go on a date. Did you ever do that?

No. I don't know. By the time I was out of college, I was on my way. I do know that, but you know. Did you? No, of course not. Did you ever place a classified ad? No, of course not.

I'm not putting myself out there. If you did, what would you say? No, absolutely not. Gen Z mommy seeking a baby to take care of. Great, really good. So the dead thing is kind of like a very ambient, anxiety-provoking thriller with horror elements. The Rule of Jenny Penn is a wildly unpleasant movie. Let me make sure I have the filmmaker's name right, but it stars John Lithgow and Jeffrey Rush, that's star power for you,

in a James Ashcroft movie about two men in a retirement community, one of whom is a judge who has had a stroke and is physically unable to move half of his body. And so he's bedridden for a lot of the time and in a wheelchair, he's played by Jeffrey Rush. Another guy, Dave, is evil and possessed by something. Presumably Jenny Penn, which is a little girls doll that he uses to communicate and torture this bedridden judge who is a very angsty person himself.

John Lithgow really, really channeling the Raising Cane, you know, Dexter era, like monster mode. He's fucking terrifying and weird in this movie. Also surprisingly limber for a man in his 80s. He's got a dance sequence that is quite notable. This movie is also on Shutter right now. Pretty good.

What are your thoughts on going into a retirement community? At some point in your life. Me? Yeah. Like, this has already been a depressing podcast. Do we really need to talk about it? I'd like to know, yeah. What are your thoughts on elder care?

Because this is a parable about the evils of elder care. I, Sean. And the whole time watching this movie, I was like, where the fuck are the nurses and the orderlies that are supposed to take care of these people? Where are they? I am grateful for caregivers around, you know, and we need more of them.

Are you afraid to offend someone right now? No, I just... It's very fraught. I don't know. I don't want to... Like, I don't want my kids to have to deal with me. So... No, that's the whole point of having kids! I don't want... No! I don't want to. You don't want your kids to have to deal with me. So... No, that's the whole point of having kids! I don't want... No, I don't want to! You don't want your kids to have to take care of you?

No. Can you imagine how... You are what's wrong with this country. We have family first, Amanda. Family first. Go away. Wait, so you want to go into a community when you're older? I mean, no, I don't want to join any community ever, as you know. That's like one of my main issues. And they have all those activities, you know? And I'm not a joiner.

Like, I'm what do you think? Pickleball? Canasta? No. You want me to? Gin Rummy? The talent show? Right, the talent show?

Like, can you imagine me doing any of this? But you're a musician. No, I'm not. You're an artist. No, I'm not. You're an artist. No, I'm not. You're an orator. I just sit somewhere and read, you know,

but I guess I don't really care where. Maybe you should go to that island from the assessment. Okay, that sounds good. In this giant wooden box that they live in. Okay, so you're out on elder care and particularly people who take care of older people. No, I appreciate them. I just don't, listen,

my kids are gonna be so annoyed with me. And then they have to like... This is really your perspective on this? I'm actually quite surprised. Yeah, I don't want to be a burden to them. Wow. We see the world very differently. I guess so. That's revealing. Okay. Not that you haven't been revealing another commentary earlier,

but if my daughter doesn't take care of me, we're gonna have big problems. I'm putting that out there right now. Right now, Alice. Uh, Mickey 17? Good movie. Yeah, I liked it. Um, it's not Bong's best. It is, it was...

surrounded by a lot of Warner Brothers, Release Delay, David Zaslav, Panic. Yeah, General, General Angst and Anxiety. And Bad Vibes. Yeah, general angst and anxiety and bad vibes. Yes, also a big filmmaker following up his Academy Award winning film. Always brings a lot of dread and undermining. I think it's a fun sci-fi comedy. Robert Pattinson forever.

He's great. Yeah. I still have not watched The Final Choice. Sure, kind of pregnant. Yeah. Co-written by and starring Amy Schumer. OK. Got to be honest, I thought it was pretty good.

So did Yassi for what it is. I mean, it is, as we said on Garbage Women, bridesmaids but for pregnancy. The Amy Schumer character steals a fake bump from a Hatch story. Familiar with Hatch? Hatch the noise machine? Yeah. I think it has a sense of the company. Yeah, I think it is the same company.

They also make a lot of pregnancy clothing for, but it's like pregnancy clothing that only fits models wearing bumps, not actual pregnant people. They do fine work in noise machine technology. Yeah, yeah, yeah, people like it a lot. And then it turns into like the red light, green light thing, right? This is how we handle wakeups in the morning.

Of course, yeah. We have like a different brand because I can't really, Hatch calls people mama a lot. And so I'm out on that. You know, if you're trying to sell me something, you can't call. They don't actually call you. They're just like sending emails.

Well, the package, well, listen, I get an email with it and I'm not happy. Anyway, or if it's on the packaging, I'm not happy. You're very chill. You spent two hours talking about Minecraft, and I'm just telling you the plot, I'm kind of pregnant. OK? I was podcasting.

So she steals a bump, and then she pretends to be pregnant to keep up with her friend, Jillian Bell, who we really like. Oh, yeah. And then she makes other pregnant friends and develops a romantic relationship with Will Forte, Oh yeah. And then she makes other pregnant friends and like develops a romantic relationship with Will Forte, even though he thinks she's pregnant.

I love Will Forte. He's really funny, she's really funny. You know, she does all of like the body humor and stuff that she normally does, but with pregnancy, it's like a very rich text. I would say that, you know, it's a ridiculous story that wraps up very quickly, but all of the bits are very funny. Over under 1.5 sex scenes.

I can definitely think of one. So I don't know if there's a second one, but the one that she has is very funny. So. Is it hardcore or no? Well, it's, you know, harder than you might expect. It's funny. Got it. Not an ideal year for us. It will be an ideal week. I'll tell you why.

25 for 25, a very special Amanda Coded episode. Looking forward to having that conversation with you very soon. We're also getting the Cannes lineup on Thursday. So we're going to record on Thursday morning. Right, and that's just going to be just a list of films that we're not going to be able to see because you wanted to go golfing. Why don't you go? What's stopping you?

Because I'm taking care of my two children while you take my husband golfing. You're doing all that, and they're not going to take care of you. How does that make sense? It don't. Cannes lineup, which which is gonna basically be like an Oscar preview for us in many ways.

You are, you're such an idiot. What do you mean? It's whatever. Go ahead, keep talking. I mean, you gotta take care of your own life. You gotta figure out your own stuff. I was trying to. When you guys booked this, I said to both of you, I would like to go to Cannes. I don't live in your house.

This is literally your husband's birthday weekend. Literally. I know, I know. Literally. This is literally your husband's birthday weekend. Literally. I know. Literally. So show him some respect and love, as I will when we are in Oregon together golfing. All right. So just a podcast about Oscar movies we're not gonna get to see.

Well, there's also gonna be a warfare conversation, which you won't participate in, probably because it's extremely upsetting. Yeah, you also didn't invite me. Well, after your Civil War performance, you've been disinvited from all future Alex Garland convos. Uh, you know, many people are saying Civil War was right. Yeah.

Many people that, uh, look just like you. So that's fine. Handsome? Masculine? Uh, okay. Uh, thanks to Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. We appreciate you. And like I said later this week, number 23 on 25 for 25.

We'll see you then.