The Big Picture - Are Movies the New TV? A Podcast Crossover Special, Part 1. Plus: Keanu Reeves and Alex Winter!

Episode Date: August 28, 2020

In a special mega-pod, Andy Greenwald and Chris Ryan join Sean and Amanda for a two-part conversation about the way that movies seems to be aping the modes and styles of TV, and vice-versa (0:29). (For Part 2, check out ‘The Watch’ on the Ringer Podcast Network.) Then, Sean is joined for a chat with the stars of ‘Bill & Ted Face the Music’: Keanu Reeves and Alex Winter (48:49)! Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Andy Greenwald, Chris Ryan, Keanu Reeves, and Alex Winter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show well about everything. A little later in the show, I was joined for a quick and fun chat with Keanu Reeves and Alex Winter, the stars of Bill and Ted Face the Music, which is available in theaters and on VOD this weekend. But first, we are joined by our counterparts in pop cultural podcasting here at The Ringer, Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald of The Watch. Great to see you, Sean. Thank you so much. Andy and I are kind of been, we've been traveling through time in a phone booth on our podcast for

a long time. So it's great to be sharing this pod with you and with Keanu and Alex. I think it's amazing to be an opening act as it were to legends such as that. You're being very generous with your time. Also, I just want to say, working with you guys, Sean and Amanda, is nothing less than inspiring, often intimidating, because before you record a podcast, you send a rundown with ideas and an order.

Must be nice. I had no idea. This is really interesting to me. That was a generous collective, you guys, which is really interesting to me. That was a generous, like, collective you guys, which is really just Sean sends an outline at like 3 a.m. Yeah.

That is just like, here are all the things that I would like to talk about. But I do get to add some things. And sometimes I tell you that you're wrong. I want you to add as much as you want.

I do. I added one thing to this outline, actually. I don't know if you spotted it. I haven't yet, but I look forward to seeing you when I scroll through. Everybody has a process.

And Chris and I just like to find it in the booth. You know what I mean? We just... Yeah. We don't... No pens. No pens.

You're like fish or widespread panic. I was going for Jay-Z, but that's fine. That's fine. All the great improvisators. So you guys have been podcasting together for eight plus years. Yeah. And the four of us have never done a podcast together, I think. And the history of...

Is that right? We have done pre-shows and after-shows wearing tuxedos, and Amanda had a fabulous gown. That's right. Two years worth of Oscars, including the year when Moonlight shocked the world. But I don't know if we have the four of us... We've certainly never done one al fresco like we're doing it now. Yeah. So we're on my back porch. We're socially distanced on my back porch.

I will say, perhaps I've made a mistake. It's quite hot. This is not comfortable. And recording via Zoom has allowed me to record in air conditioning for the last six months, and we don't have that right now. I thought this was an homage to your favorite Danny Boyle film, 2007's Sunshine.

Huge fan. In which a group of people fly into the sun because that's my feeling right now uh did i fuck this up chris no this is a great idea why don't you tell people what we're doing here together though uh so this is um this is sort of the uh dc marvel team up this is the two worlds colliding we're going to be talking about... No, I'm sorry. Yeah. Also, please know who's who. I don't want to go down that road. You are definitely Darkseid, I would say. Don't know who that is, but okay. Oh, you will. I think you'll be on Max next year. Four nights. So we're going to talk about movies and television and the fact that I think every movie feels like

a TV show to me lately and every TV show I think is starting to feel like a movie. And Andy, you brought this up on a recent episode of The Watch. And Amanda and I have been talking about it basically for the last year about how there seems to be this agglomeration of content. And it's really hard to tell what is what and the difference between those two things. So I thought we could just kind of have like a rollicking conversation about how things got this way and where they're going and why. And Andy, I mean, especially having just made a series now, you have particular insight into the decisions that are made and

why and, you know. It's nice to be on a podcast where I'm treated with respect. You know, I just want to say like, thank you. Yeah. And Chris, you are a man. That's right. Great guy. Who is alive. Who's a guy who watches Yellowstone, you know? That's right. So where do we begin this conversation? I thought we could actually start it with the movies that are actually coming out into movie theaters this week. Because this is the first real movie theater release weekend. We're not going to talk about what is in those movies, but what those movies represent.

Because I think they're kind of an interesting jumping off point. So as I mentioned, Alex and Keanu were on the episode to talk about Bill & Ted. That's the third movie in a series. They haven't made a Bill and Ted movie in 29 years. And still there's a sense that the IP matters. You guys are, I don't know, you're purveyors of IP. You kind of

invented the conversation around IP. We definitely, this is the kind of thing that I think we would have joked about eight years ago and now it's happening. Next thing you know, they'll be making another Bill and Ted movie and little did we know. And then the other movie that's coming out is The New Mutants. I think it is extremely on brand for 2020 that the first movie to welcome people back into the viral hotspots that are America's movie theaters is a purported disaster piece that is over three years in the making that no one from audiences to Fox to Disney

seem to actually want. So I think that's perfect. I'm very excited about it. Are you excited, Amanda? The mutants that are new? Yes. Yeah, I can't wait. I understand what the movie's about now.

Wait, Amanda, can I check in with you? Yeah. Were you finished with the old mutants? Had you had enough yeah i don't think that um these are necessarily indicative of specifically what people want for movies uh bill and ted face the music we should say is not only going to be in theaters if you want to watch it at home you can and i just assume most people will i don't know it's new mutants what's the window on that like are we going to get New Mutants on VOD in four weeks? I think it has to play

in theaters for three decades before it will come to VOD. That's what I read. You guys can fact check me on that. I don't know. I don't know how long they're going to let it play.

There's obviously been a lot of conversation about how long Tenet is going to play when it opens a week from now because there are only one or two other releases earmarked for September.

So theoretically, Tenet could play 4,500 movie theaters for four straight weeks, which I don't know if that's ever been done before. I don't know if there's been that high a theater count because nothing else is even coming out. So those movies that are coming out this weekend are part of that larger IP conversation you guys have been having over years. But I don't think that they are really representative of television in any way. New Mutants in particular is the part of this dead economy of X-Men movies

that they don't make anymore. They're burning off the remainder of it. Also, specifically, it's from a recent era of cinematic history where comic book IP is used to Trojan Horse homages to older movies. Because this is inspired by somehow both John Hughes and John Carpenter,

I guess at the same time, um, which is very much different. It's a very much a different strategy than what Marvel is doing, at least in terms of it's turning its movies into TV shows, which are set to premiere at some point once productions fires up again in Slovakia. Yeah.

This was definitely like a post Deadpool idea where they were like, Oh wait, we could make an R rated movie that has like a bunch-Deadpool idea where they were like, oh, wait, we could make an R-rated movie that has like a bunch of different genre references. And if we make it cheaper, we'll let you play with the name X-Men.

But I mean, Amanda, you were like, I can't imagine you would be even more excited to see a superhero movie if you knew it was also a horror movie, right? Yeah, no, I literally

had to ask Sean what the plot of this movie was last week. But I don't think anybody knows, right? No, but what's amazing is also I have been making New Mutants jokes for like four to five months now because this has just become a talking point.

And a lot of that is because of the pandemic and because the way the industry has changed. And so now, you know, everything that is possibly going to be in theaters in the next three months has become a political football and has like a extra movie life of its own where we just like talk about the movie without consuming it. But like, trust me, I will never see new mutants and i will always remember that it was like the the movie that opened in theaters at the end of august i don't want to uh lump them together other than the fact that you did to begin the podcast sean but because i think the bill and ted thing seems to have come from a place of genuine like goodwill and good spirit and they

wanted to have fun and they're friends and they're all friends absolutely um any mutants does not seem like it was born of that kind of process but both of them definitely can be categorized under a very specific genre of hollywood which is who exactly is going to get this and who is this for and with bill and ted as you said it's a 30 year old piece of ip but at least there's a recognizable movie star in it new mutants it's not just that it's i mean when x men movies were cooking the idea of making another one with younger, hotter people, great, that seems like a no-brainer. But specifically, and I'm talking to you, Amanda, this is apparently deeply inspired, if not mostly cribbed from a seminal comic book storyline from the early 80s by Chris Claremont and Bill Sienkiewicz called Demon Bear, the Demon Bear Saga, starring characters

who have not mainstreamed since. Like, they're back in play in the X-Men comics now, but they've always been kind of the other guys. Can I just ask a clarifying question? Yeah. So they are X-Men,

but not the X-Men? So in the early 80s, when X-Men comics were very popular, maybe more popular than they've ever been, Cyclops, Wolverine, all these people who you love, the old mutants, we'll call them. I saw the Wolverine movie, Logan.

It had gone away from the core idea at the original, at the start of X-Men, which was this was a school for gifted youngsters, aka mutants. So they were like, let's start the school part again and bring in a new class. So these were the new class of

mutants and they were like teen stories. But not the first class. No. Would these be considered part of a sequel or prequel, Sean? We don't know yet because we don't know if any of the third or fourth class. Well, there may be canon X-Men characters in this movie that we don't know about. But so you take this story that no one except me and everyone exactly like me remembers and then you adapt it by Josh Boone insisting

that it should both be a horror movie and also Stranger Things from the 80s. And all, those are all things. Those are all identifiable, recognizable things, right?

But collect them into one film and who's that for? Let me play demon bear advocate though. Were we having the same conversation about Guardians of the Galaxy? Isn't it the story of a lot of huge commercial, at least, successes over the last few years where somebody was like, that'll never work. The Suicide Squad, you were serious about that? The counter to that is if James Gunn does it, it'll probably work. But the first Suicide Squad? You were serious about that? The counter to that is if James Gunn does it, it'll probably work.

But the first Suicide Squad didn't, right? It made a ton of money. Did it? I don't see movies. Am I disqualified from being on this podcast? There's no way to understand whether or not this is actually going to work or not work, right?

Because we're in the middle of a pandemic and so there's going to be a reluctance to go to theaters and also there's not going to be a New Mutants 2. These characters are going to get absorbed into the Disney world, but not to try to, I'm looking at this document you sent us and it's really a good rundown.

Sean, I'm really impressed. Andy, thank you. Not to, not to steer us back onto that, but in 2020, if Josh Boone,

who's just finishing up his multi-part adaptation of Stephen King's, the stand for, for CBS, all access. If he pitched Fox Disney on a young X-Men Stranger Things, that could be greenlit as a Disney Plus show. That makes more sense as a TV show than saying, I'm going to start a new franchise with people you don't know in a genre you're not prepared for. Do you think that because of things like this, that movies are at a turning

point? Or is it mostly just that this has been a 10-year story? Yeah, Andy's cynicism about this idea, which he is, it's very well earned. But his cynicism, what he just said is, they shouldn't make a movie about this. Like, they shouldn't do a two-hour horror teen comedy about New Mutants. Which, like, if I was running a studio, I would say that sounds

like a really good idea for a movie. Most horror movies have a comic element or have a kind of setup where you're supposed to get invested in the characters. And all the better if they're teens and they're going through stuff. And you want to set it in one setting and have it be a horror movie? Fantastic. We'll get in, we'll get out. Horror movies are cheap to make. Horror movies make a lot of money. Add an X-Men on top of it, that seems like you're printing money. Well, but what Andy said is not

that you shouldn't make it a movie. He said they should make it a TV show instead, which is like kind of the difference and is a thing that we wind up talking about a lot and that you guys come to as well, which is like, and I do feel like it's often we use it a bit as a crutch. When something isn't quite working, we're just like, well, maybe if it had been in the other

medium, then it would have worked. But I do think that there is a distinction there. That is what we're talking about. The other thing that is at the root of this is investment and just economics in general, right? Because what makes something a comic book story, the thing that made the Marvel universe beloved and groundbreaking was that it was told like a comic book, meaning it was told over 20 movies. And everything since then has been begun with the intention for it to go three to 20 films in the future, right? So the movie itself is not really telling one story, it's setting you up for all the other stories, which is kind of cost prohibitive, and increasingly so. So Marvel even recognizing that by pivoting to a more

cost-effective serialized format, which is my beloved television, that makes sense to me. And that's the crux of this conversation. It's essentially our movie studios thinking more like television studios of old. How can we milk as much content out of this idea as possible over years and years and years?

While TV shows, more and more, are like, hey, we can get Reese for nine weeks. What can we do here with Little Fires Everywhere? Or what can we do here with Nicole Kidman for three, six months or whatever? And that's like a complete flip of the thinking, I think. Also, I want to ask you guys, Sean and Amanda, about this. But I feel like, is the urtext from this era, that Warner Brothers document from Comic-Con a few years ago that just plotted out their release schedule with TBD DC movie, May 2022, June 2023. And like, it's the ultimate hubris that they were read that they, and it's not just hubris because it's a

document that circulated. It's that millions of dollars and years of thinking went into planning for that. And then they had to rip it up and start it again on the fly. Yeah, I mean, I think you have to credit Mark Harris on this. He's been writing about it for almost 10 years. But the landing on tentpole release dates studio strategy, which I think starts probably in the late 2000s, early 2010s, is not just bound by expanded IP. Like you would see in 2011,

universal event movie for 2025. Was it a dark universe movie? You wouldn't even know. You wouldn't know until five years later when they told you it was. And then when they canceled the dark universe, they replaced it with something else that they had been developing in tandem.

So it feels like, I don't know if that moment is necessarily ending. What is actually happening, I think, is if that moment is necessarily ending. What is actually happening, I think, is that that moment is the only thing that is going to be movies. Like that strategy five years from now may really be the only movie that I'm sure is going to come out before I die is like Thor Love and Thunder. You know, like everything else, who the fuck knows? I'd take it. I'm excited about that movie, but there's only a handful of films that you know will be guaranteed

an opportunity to be released as movies instead of TV shows but the thing that I was thinking of as you guys were talking about this

and probably the best example and I'm getting ahead of the watch edition of this conversation is The Mandalorian because that for years Star Wars nerds

like myself were like I need the Boba Fett movie that's the movie that I think would be cool I hadn't even really considered what a Boba Fett movie would be. I was just like,

just put Boba Fett in the movie. So you're like Josh Trank in that regard. Well, unfortunately, perhaps. But I didn't really think about what was a two-hour Boba Fett movie. I just want to see more Boba Fett because I'm perpetually 11.

And Disney decided it would be better to make that a cool TV show. And frankly, that was the right choice. I don't think anybody feels like The Mandalorian was a mistake. It was one of the great

IP moves of the last 10 years with the nose dive that the movie franchise took exactly so what do you think? I mean I think

what you just said I have not seen an episode of The Mandalorian though I did watch all of the Baby Yoda highlights so I feel like I have a sense of it

I'm also just unbelievably pro Baby Yoda I just want to come out if I haven't made that clear are. I'm also just unbelievably pro Baby Yoda. I just want to come out if I haven't made that clear. Are you speaking at the RNC about Baby Yoda tonight? Okay. You know what? We talked before this podcast started about not getting too loose. Please do not put me in the same sentence as the RNC.

Sorry, I apologize. Baby Yoda only. Can I just tell you something really quick? Yeah. Last Friday, I had a really good round of golf. Like I really played well. No, we don't have to get into the sundry details about it. I actually did hear that.

You were giving me a stroke. I did win skins that we were playing. But I did hear independently from you that it was a good round of golf for me. But here's how, here's the power of Baby Yoda. I texted my wife and I was like, I'm on fire. Like, this is the round of my life. Not to jinx it, but I just want to let you know, I'll probably be, I'm going to make these guys stay out here until there is no more light. Because I'm going to, but I just want to let you know, I'll probably be, I'm going to make these guys stay out here

until there is no more light. Because I'm going to fly. I'm going to get as close as I can to finish. And she responded with a text message that was a picture of Baby Yoda holding a case of beer standing next to a bag of golf clubs. And I was like, that's why I married you. Wow.

Are you 100% sure that wasn't a photo of you? I also don't know if she didn't make that. Like, I wasn't even sure. I do have to say. I didn't mean to interrupt. That's so romantic. We can just build on that. I do think that your wife is like the number one collector of Baby Yoda memes.

Yes. Like, that is not an unusual text message happening from your wife. Okay, but Baby Yoda, yes. But what you were talking about with, I believe Boba Fett, who's a character I'm not as familiar with, but you identified that you wanted to spend more time with this character and like, and that was the instinct. And I think that that thematically, as soon as you say something like that, I think TV just because that is how I consume TV. And I think that is one of the core things it's, And some of it is because you are asked to spend a lot of time with these people in your home.

But it is character driven. And at the end of the day, I think we've all been conditioned to be like, I just want to spend some time in that world. And so that's a TV show to me. And that's like a very easy definition of what TV is, even though there are a lot of movies that I would like to spend time in. But somehow that's it. So it's interesting that like basically 10 or 15 years later, the industry finally caught up to that. I completely agree with that. I think that's a really, really smart summation of what this is, which is to say, if someone had a really, really good story for a bounty hunter in the galaxy far, far away, then they should make a

movie about that bounty hunter. I mean, that sounds like it could be a good movie, far away, then they should make a movie about that bounty hunter. I mean, that sounds like it could be a good movie. But that's not what happened over 20 years of development, at least from what I can tell. What happened was people just kept saying the same thing.

I kind of want to hang out in the cantinas with these people and see that side of the Star Wars universe. That's the key difference. I think people often think the TV is essentially

like a plot machine or a plot, you know, an engine fueled by plot, but really it's, it's character more than anything else. Plot is just the thing to get the characters from one scene to another and to get people to enjoy spending time with them. And TV is where you hang out. Movies are where you pay attention. I think essentially what's happened is movies, especially the movies that we're all likely to watch together, feel more like television. Like if you look at the movies that have really succeeded since the pandemic started, since we couldn't go into movie theaters. I mean, what are they? They're Palm Springs, probably the number one example of that. And that I think was an American Pickle that inspired what you were?

It was having watched both of them. And I have some criteria for this category, but please continue. Well, I'll just list off very briefly what I think are kind of like the signature movies of the last six months. Palm Springs, An American Pickle, The Old Guard, Extraction, Trolls World Tour, Unquestionably, Hamilton. This is, you're going to hear Jean-Luc Godard hit the vape so hard. And probably Black is King, the Beyonce visual album. So if those are what movies have been this year, for the most part, Bad Boys for Life and Never Rarely, Sometimes, Always, Notwithstanding,

are movies just TV shows now? Like those are, explain what your theory was essentially on the watch. So this was, you know, like many things on the podcast, which I'm very proud, Chris, it was a little bit just kind of off the dome and not giving it that much thought and kind of laid it out as a provocation for YouTube because I want to make sure you're listening at all times, but also you could fact check it.

But this idea that there should be a distinct genre now, which I was calling media movies, I think there's probably a better name. We can see if Rich Little is available to come up with one for us. Maybe Marshall McLuhan. I wish you'd stepped out here on your back porch. You know nothing of my movies.

Also true. I was thinking about like of the movies you mentioned, the other one that I would throw in there that fit this category, at least in my opinion are Palm Springs, yes. American Pickle, yes. Eurovision movie. Oh, for sure. The Will Ferrell movie. Did you watch that?

Good call. I don't always feel I need to watch things to talk about them confidently. No, I just didn't know. I didn't know if like, I feel like I'm very up to date on anything you have watched. Yeah, I don't.

If I watch it, I burn it on the podcast. I don't watch anything. There's no one for me, one for them. Well, that's an interesting pick though because that one in particular, I think neither Amanda nor I responded to. And since so much of my movie-going conversation is like, do Amanda and I want to spend 40 minutes on this movie on the pod? And if not, it feels like it didn't happen, which is, of course, kind of ridiculous.

And that's our bubble that we've created. But you're right. That is definitely a movie that has emerged this year, too. The thing about these movies is that they—so here's some criteria I came up with. So a budget between like $5 and $25 million. dollars so something like project power also haven't seen it chris but i did check the budget was it sub 25 way over yeah oh way over so that's an example fronts way over like those kinds of like extraction would be over yes triple frontier no i'm saying that's a different conversation that's a special movie for us okay you and i

but what i want is 10 episodes of triple frontier for us. You and I. But what I want is 10 episodes of Triple Frontier. That's the complicated part of it. No, what you want is Kraven the Hunter. No, you know what? That donkey had a lot more

screen time. You know what I mean? Keep going. Quadruple Frontier would be the next one, I imagine. Okay, so what we're looking for is a certain budget, right?

Not an arthouse auteur movie. So basically not Netflix throwing a bone to nicole hall center no bomb buck um filling in the gap where the angelica film center used to reside um not a big budget movie that got repurposed like the old guard um not or extraction or extraction not something that is a little art housey, but also very, very niche, like Velvet Buzzsaw, something like that, which has a big star doing a strange, you know, a different turn. It's not a different turn. It's the same turn he always does.

Oh, okay. Jake Gyllenhaal. Please respect Jake Gyllenhaal. Please respect him. I love Jake Gyllenhaal being weird, but let's be real. My guy just goes through it in every movie. My favorite Jake Gyllenhaal movie of 2020 is the Instagram video he made for Russ and Daughters recently. Yeah, with the yoga?

Well, they made another one of this charity tie-dye shirt. That's some of his best work. You guys have not seen the John Mulaney and the sack lunch bunch situation, have you? That's true. Gyllenhaal is unbelievable. And that also was kind of a movie and kind of TV. So basically, it is something that at some point someone must have asked in the

development, is this a TV show? and the answer was no it's still a one it's a one-off it's one thing tell the whole story but for me the simplest distillation of it is it's a wednesday night not a saturday night okay and so american pickle i think is what kind of started this conversation because i enjoyed it i was happy people made it. Seth Rogen was good in it. It did exactly what it needed to do in a very, very, very small aperture. It was not, I mean, as Chris and I discussed, there's like three people in the movie.

Yeah. Yet it still somehow cost $20 million. But that made no sense as a theatrical release, even without a pandemic, right? And so what are we going to do with these movies that actually do, they're movies, but I think they just make much more sense on a smaller screen.

And Palm Springs was the best example of that. Yeah, Palm Springs split the atom there because not only was it a date night movie, but it also spawned like obsessive Reddit threads too. Like you could watch it on a Wednesday or a Friday. And I think the Friday thing for me is a little bit more of a genre, like kind of exercise,

like where it's like, Ooh, let's watch host. Let's watch something a little bit more like what's going to be the huge thing that we come out of the weekend talking about. Whereas like Wednesday, you could just be like, yeah,

it's Wednesday. Let's watch a movie. We don't have to go like into work tomorrow. So like, let's talk about it. You know, what's interesting about what you're suggesting though, Andy,

is that none of the movies that you're talking about were developed for streaming. Right. Palm Springs was a Sundance movie. Bought out of Sundance with the hope that maybe it would go to Warner Brothers. Maybe it would go to an indie shingle. Wasn't it the most expensive pickup in the history of Sundance by 69 cents? And it was a double buy. It was a dual buy.

It was a buy between Hulu and Neon. And the original intention was to put it in movie theaters and then put it on on hulu and i think you could make the case that it actually worked out for the best that the way that they did it was really ideal because lots of people have hulu especially now that disney plus exists and that bundle exists a lot of people have hulu if you have spotify you might have hulu for example so do you guys have spotify um no comment uh you do have spotify yes it's a great product okay don't get all edward snowden about it you have in spotify but same thing with american pickle i think american pickle was developed in a studio and then they decided to put it on hbo max and i wonder and they spun it into a win i think they

were looking at it being like what are we we doing with this? What would this be? So I wonder, like, can you actively create a great streaming movie? Is kind of the question I've been turning over in my head. I have a, well, I have a similar question. And it's a little bit meant as a provocation. Or just like to test your theory. But actually, I don't really think it is. I'm genuinely curious about the answer. But it was when I first heard this theory on The Watch a podcast that i listened to what's up chris ryan

um chris ryan does not listen to the big picture one episode it was one of our best episodes okay we shared a lot um what makes a medium movie different from just the mid-budget adult movies that they made 20 years ago that we all miss and are just like oh they don't make them anymore i don't have enough examples to say one way or another definitively because there could easily be something that feels like i want to know why my brain goes to like at the same time like the sweet spot between the television show 30 something and the Michael Keaton film Malice, like something that's like very 1989-y that doesn't exist anymore. I don't think we have enough examples to say one way or another. But these movies are, to my mind, a lot more open hearted and desirous of your attention. And what I mean is there's something that is essentially, people fight this all the time, but TV is very, very populist as a medium. TV,

there's an expectation that it has to entertain along with enlightening or illuminating or whatever. Whereas I think, you know, as we've talked about before privately, and I'm sure on podcasts, if you go to a movie, you're kind of buying a ticket to pay attention and to push yourself a little bit or to be pushed. And so a movie, when you say that the type of movie you're talking about, I keep thinking of like a Todd Field movie, which isn't children or something.

Yeah. Like little children. That's not getting made today. And that wouldn't qualify. I don't think it's this because it's a tough hang, you know, and all the movies we're mentioning are like, hey, that's there. That'll be fun.

That'll be a fun way to spend tonight before I start binging something else tomorrow. So I do think there actually are some good examples and they are romantic comedies, which were movies that were made 20 years ago. And then recently, Netflix in particular has been like credited with bringing back the romantic comedy and they have they make a lot of movies that you know either just by subject matter or by formula fit under the banner of romantic comedy but they do feel different and like i have been trying to sort through my personal feelings and also trying to identify like what are their disposability is it i think that there is. Yes. A lack of depth or feeling? Like, I'm curious. Some of it is honestly, I think, budget. Like, you can see the corners being cut in terms of, like, what it looks like and the extra round of script development.

And, you know, in terms of trying to get people's attention, Andy, there's, like, they're cut every five seconds. So you can't look away from the screen. I'm thinking a lot about Always Be My Maybe, which you and I saw together, Chris Ryan, at the Netflix screening room. And, you know, that's an interesting one because it has that amazing Keanu Reeves cameo, which just was one of my favorite movie moments.

But it's like every three and a half minutes, there's another drone shot flying over San Francisco. And then otherwise that they're mostly done on sets. Yeah. You know, not a lot of locations. So you can kind of see the budget trimming. And that to me is like, oh, people sat down or like, we're going to make the movie in a different way.

And then I think some of it is also I'm like older. And so these movies are targeted a bit younger, which I think they've been very successful in developing a younger audience at Netflix. But I'm just like, oh, okay, well now I don't understand all your phone jokes. But I think that makes a lot of sense because rom-coms have not translated super well to TV shows because they just

go on and on. Right, there's sitcoms but usually the rom-com has to be buried into a workplace or a family or something. Or it has to be a big payoff, right? There's a big denouement that comes with those. Great content for night four of the convention tonight. It has to be a big payoff, right? I mean, there's a big denouement, right? That comes with this. Great, great, great content for night four of the convention tonight. You know, this does make me think

that there's one other movie sort of mainstream release that is going into theaters this weekend. It's called The Personal History of David Copperfield. It's Armando Iannucci's... IP in a way. Well, it is. Big Dickens.

It is IP and it is Big Dickens it is IP and it is genre it is costume costume drama and it has that Iannucci kind of arched eyebrow

approach to the material but and it's exactly what you're describing it's a 15 million dollar movie it's a bit boutique but also aspiring to be mainstream

with you know Dev Patel is the star he's a recognizable person yes of course this is you should everybody he mentions you should like so aspiring to be mainstream with, you know, Dev Patel is the star. He's a recognizable person. Yes, of course. Um, this is, you should,

everybody he mentions, you should like name a TV show they were in as if like, I would only know him from the newsroom. I was planning to, but I don't think that the personal history of David Copperfield, even though Armando Iannucci, is he the single best TV creator of the last 20 years? He might be.

I don't think it really worked at home for me nearly as well as I wanted it to. Can I throw one more wrinkle into this? And it starts from a place that everyone loves to talk about art in, which is money. Palm Springs reported budget, which might not be accurate,

but seems... You just went full-price water house today. Because at the beginning, Sean said I was a professional, so I'm trying to make it seem like I knew. You've been going through the Sony leak

for the last several hours. Just for it. Was five million dollars which is basically how much we had for an episode of Briarpatch. And that's incredible that they made that movie

for that money. And obviously like star salaries were deferred or whatever probably but whatever. That's an amazing number. And I wonder if it is worth paying more attention to these things because while while people you know tv shows cost more than they used to and there's

certain services like netflix or hbo that just generally have a bigger budget than other networks like in my experience usa or even something like fx um there's still a wild disparity that i don't know if it always serves the art so i want to throw you guys and i didn that I don't know if it always serves the art. So I want to throw you guys and I didn't, I don't know if it's on your rundown, but if you look at something like Lovecraft country, which had an extremely expensive pilot and you can tell not just, um, from the quality of the shots that, that Jan came up with, but just the amount of setups. You can see all the handiworks that went into it. There's a ton.

And it, you know, in the stylistic jumps are carried along by the, um, I mean, they had the budget to do that right and then you go into episode two and i'm sure their budget was more than budget of palm springs yeah but it suddenly feels like it's more like a tv show again at least it did until they destroyed it i thought it was a set yeah they should i thought it was going to be a standing set and it wasn't so it's a bad maybe it's a bad example but i wonder if the idea of like should some tv shows just be a really expensive pilot and call it a movie? Okay. So you're, you're, you're scratching a part of my brain that is very,

I want, I've tantalized. Yes. I want to add one more thing here. No, no, no, no, no. I, cause I think I just want to hit Palm Springs one more time because, you know, throughout the summer, we've been robbed of the, like one of the great rights of passage of any summer, which is spending most of it in movie theaters to beat the summer, we've been robbed of one of the great rites of passage of any summer, which is spending most of it in movie theaters to beat the heat, to go see almost anything they throw at us because it's just something to do. And we haven't had that all year. But one thing that I've noticed, and to some extent, this is a bubble thing because I think blogs go on and we need to make content about stuff. But I thought that the obsessive quality of the way people received Palm Springs

was really notable because what it indicated is the kind of thing 20 years ago, people would have seen that movie three times in the theater, maybe. But in this day and age, you can actually rewind and break down all those moments

and everything from that movie, all the reaction shots can become memes immediately. I do think that there's something about people unlocking the streaming as a gateway to an intense fan relationship with something

that movies have kind of kind of abandoned and now are forced to abandon because they just can't be in the theaters. I feel like you guys just you're the perfect batting practice pitchers for all the things that I want to say on this episode.

The two points you're making are exactly what I've been thinking about, which is one, I don't want to besmirch Lovecraft Country, for example, because I've only seen one episode. I thought it was solid. I think it actually has something to say. But I have thought about the deluge

of very expensive shows that don't seem to mean anything to me personally, like Brave New World, for example. I tried to watch Brave New World on Peacock, and I was like, I can't believe they spent, very expensive shows that don't seem to mean anything to me personally like brave new world for example i tried to watch brave new world on peacock and i was like i can't believe they spent how much money do you think they spent on that show 60 million dollars i mean more more than briar patching so they spent a lot of money on brave new world right now it's iced and because of that well let me put it this way i had a conversation with charlie kaufman this week great conversation his new movie is called i'm Thinking of Ending Things. It comes out next week

and it is the perfect example of what you're describing, Chris, which is the movie that when you watch it, you kind of need to watch it again right away. And you can, because it's going to be on Netflix. But when I talked to Charlie, he essentially said, I haven't been able to make a movie since 2008. I can't get anybody to give me money for a movie and then i look at and i look at i think i'm thinking of ending things and i look at brave new world and i'm like how can this be how can brave new world get 60 70 80 million dollars and charlie kaufman can't get five million dollars to make this very peculiar admittedly film but a film that no doubt will have a passionate audience will likely meme the film and there will be this trundle of analysis that comes with breaking down the movie and frankly a lot of people may

hate that movie because it's imperceptible i think to most people who watch movies just to kind of relax or chill out but it does raise this question of sort of like if everything has to be an ip moment or everything has to be a tv show or everything has to be palm springs you're going to lose something in the calculus you're going to lose something in the calculus. You're going to lose something in the business. And it's not exactly romantic comedies. It's not exactly a courtroom drama, but it is a kind of movie that was paid for by being John Malkovich was paid for by studio.

You know, that's a movie that came out in 2000 theaters. And that, that also is not happening anymore. But the idea of, I do think it comes back to, and I'm sorry that this is my role today, but the idea of a business, like of two businesses, and one business is we spend a certain amount of money for one, maybe if we're lucky, two results, two paydays, versus we'll spend this amount of money and we can amortize it, I never know how to say that word, across multiple years and sell it in multiple regions and use it to launch a service from which we can launch other things

and we own it all the way up and down. I mean, that's just a, if it works, that's a better business model. It's just going to take more, you know, it's going to get more attention and more dollars that way.

So that's an elegant segue to the Snyder Cut. Yes. Which I don't know if it felt... Why did everyone just look at me? I haven't because I haven't... Like you all, you just said the Snyder Cut

and I like wasn't even looking at you, Andy, but I felt your eyes on me. One thing that's been fun working with you is that I feel like the universe keeps throwing challenges at you.

And it's really amazing to watch you rise to the occasion over and over again. Here I am. Sometimes it's just like, oh, I have to go see this movie. But now it's really amazing to watch you rise to the occasion over and over again sometimes it's just like oh i have to go see this movie but now it's like you we joked about it too much yeah yeah you can't have it all we joked about it too much and so and now we we put amanda she is going to be ensnared by the demon bear now. I don't know how to classify the Snyder Cut. It may be unclassifiable, but it does seem like it is part of a trend in movies,

which is the sort of afterlife expansion of a movie. So The Hateful Eight, when it hit Netflix, was chapterized by Netflix. They went to Quentin Tarantino and they said, can we deliver this movie in four episodic installments so when people hit Netflix, was chapterized by Netflix. They went to Quentin Tarantino and they said, can we deliver this movie in four episodic installments so when people watch it, they have to treat it more like a miniseries than a film? Surprisingly, I thought-

Like The Irishman, a miniseries, not a film. I mean, that was my next point, honestly. I really think that in many ways, even though The Irishman is, what, three and a half hours, three hours and 20 minutes, Netflix thought of it in the same way. They just thought, you know what, if you pause it after 40 minutes and you come back to it the next night that's fine by us now Martin Scorsese may hate that idea and I was surprised

that Tarantino was cool with that idea but those guys aren't dummies no they just they know where the money is do you know what I mean like look Marty just signed up for Apple TV yeah the Marty thing is particularly special and unique. And maybe other filmmakers with clout like him, if there are that many anymore, will mimic it. But he basically was like, yes, I'm going to make this movie. It's the Killers of the Flower Moon with DiCaprio. And he went into it with the studio. And they were like, here's your budget. And he was like, cool, cool.

I'll definitely follow that. And then just started shooting and just making more and more and more movie. And basically his assumption. So did they actually start shooting Kill the Flyer? I thought that he just was like, it's going to cost $160 to do this. I don't know. Oh, well, regardless, the point being, he went full, just went for it, knowing that either Netflix or Apple or maybe Amazon was going to come in and be

like, we got you because it's good for us to be in business with you. And that came true. He just dared, he basically bluffed. Not many people can do that, but he bluffed his way past the budget. He strikes me as an exception, like you're saying. And the Snyder Cut is slightly different because it originates, as we've talked about many times, which Amanda keeps putting on our outlines. And I'm like, Amanda, again, the Snyder Cut, you really want to talk about this but she does you found my edition and uh but this is a fan campaign and obviously zach snyder wasn't able to complete his film because he had a horrible family tragedy and that's a terrible thing that happened in it that i think in some ways led to this movement It created a kind of empathy for him as an artist,

especially among the people who cared about his movies the most that drove the campaign. But, you know, it came true. Like, it's here. We're going to see Darkseid. That was the reference I was making. The new villain in Justice League is Darkseid. They're adding a new villain?

Yes. Killers of the Flower Moon has not started filming. I just wanted to. Thank you for clarifying. I'll put that on the outline for next week. They're still trying to get the budget to get Darkseid in Killers of the Flower Moon. They started filming. I just wanted to. Thank you for clarifying. I'll put that on the outline for next week. They're still trying to get the budget to get Darkseid in Killers of the Flower Moon.

They can add him later. Sorry, go on. I mean, I'm just processing because I didn't really understand that they were just adding a bunch of stuff. Are they reshooting as well? I think it's primarily CGI

that is being added to the film. Oh, great. My favorite. I think that's why Clemens was cut out of the Joss Whedon completed version of it

and has now been added back in. So she's in the trailer. She is a character in this movie. I think related, like she's a Flash character, right? I think she plays Darkseid. Okay. Also, it's a unique, there are a lot of different unique factors that led to this, right?

Because Zack Snyder had to step away from making Justice League and Joss Whedon was brought in, which at the time was kind of celebrated because people credited him for finding the sort of lighter tone of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Since that movie came out and was not well received, I would say Joss Whedon's reputation has fallen in a number of areas um and regardless of his own uh personal failings and shortcomings that have emerged um his stewardship of the marvel universe is also not remembered that fondly yeah um it's like ancient history so it does present an opportunity to say well this never was right like this never was the one true vision of this i think the essential problem is that they're well i'll let amanda speak to it why there maybe shouldn't be one true vision of this i mean four hours is just as four hours right

four hours that's a lot to ask for me personally and i know i'm not looking forward to it but it it is interesting to me there's a real difference between say i guess turning a movie that everyone hated into a four-hour episodic show with new material and maybe reshooting things and then just like watching the irishman over four nights and some of that is i can't believe i'm about to credit zach snyder with intentionality but at least that theoretically maybe the new justice league would be episodic in a way like it might be i mean the the difference is that one is context and one is text you know the irishman was purposeful the snyder cut is actionable after a movement so he So Snyder can choose specifically to

treat it more like a TV show as opposed to the presumption of the viewer watching the Irishman that like, hey, this is basically a TV show, you know? Story story though. I think he'll edit. I mean, like maybe he edits in cliffhangers for those four nights, but I have a question for you, which is that no matter how perhaps like you might be like, I don't really want to see this superhero movie or whatever. Yeah. You do get up for the event. Like you kind of do get fired up for like, it's like it's coming out.

This big blockbuster is coming out and we like to go to the movies and do that. Do you think that you feel like any of the like a simulacrum of that feeling for a four part miniseries event? No, because it's not one event. It's's four events and this is what i'm getting at it's like i and i do think that there is something to the fact of the irishman is not a tv show because it is one story told over time it is like a contained event as opposed to four different things and that to me is like the only distinction that i'm holding onto anymore in terms of TV and movies. And like, that's how I understand it is like, you've asked for my time. You've asked

for this event moment, like, here we go. And then it's like, oh, you want me to come back next week? I don't know. That's a commitment that I'm like not prepared to make, especially when there's so much else going on. So if it were, I mean, this is really like Sophie's choice between like versions of Justice League or, you know, but I think for me, it feels like more of an event if it's one night only. Yeah, yeah. But is it devil's advocate to say that maybe this is not TV replacing movies so much as it's TV replacing the collectible DVD market. Because there have been examples in the past of movies that have been released with director's cuts or extended footage. Like Ridley Scott's Kingdom of Heaven. One of your favorites. Yeah. Oh my god, everybody drink if you had that on the bingo of doing a podcast with Chris Ryan. Weirdly, it's on page

four of the rundown. You know what I mean? And so because they're eventizing it we all feel like we're forced to pay attention to it, but if it really is just kind of a weird Twitter dare that a major multinational corporation has accepted solely for a few people and at the end of it isn't this also kind of dead IP like New Mutants?

Because Zack Snyder's vision of Darkseid and the DCU, that's not an active concern, is it? Well, Ben Affleck is returning to the series for The Flash. But isn't Michael Keaton also? Isn't that just like a flash-through multiverse

stuff? Yes. I honestly don't know. You guys have talked about it on the show. Amanda won't look me in the eye and talk to me about what's going on at DC. It's just not one of her interests. That's not true. I love Wonder Woman. That's true. But the idea that- Amanda speaks for America. So don't act like she's on the bridge. Well, just the idea that there are like six Joker properties going at any one given time. You guys have talked about that a lot.

And that is simultaneously confusing and also just kind of how culture should be right now, which is just like you get a Joker and you get get a joker and you get a joker and they're all different and they have all different tonalities. And one is about an incel and one is about a hilarious standup comedian. That's okay. And I mean, what, that's basically all of society and culture as far as I'm concerned. It's very true from one end to the other. I guess I'm just trying to wrap my head around. Well, okay, let me ask you this, Andy. Do your kids have any idea about any of this stuff?

Do they have any idea of like a container? What is an appropriate amount of time to watch something to its completion, for example? Great question. I think that they were concerned that there wasn't a lot of the Jack Kirby influence in Snyder's version of DCU, like Mr. Miracle, Mother Boxes, all that stuff. They're hopeful that that will be brought in.

I'll say that they are, my older child in particular, is militant about correcting people if they say, what show are you watching? And she says, it's a movie. And that's probably because she likes the big picture. But she also watches classic musicals. She has a concept of like great movies.

Yeah, but I definitely think, but also in terms of, no, there's still, maybe this is just our household, like movies are an event because it means more than a half hour of television at one time. So they are coveted.

But beyond that, no, no i mean like for example if the yearly calendar is marked by pixar releases uh the onward was something that she'd seen the trailer they had seen the trailer for before uh the best film of 2019 frozen 2 and so they were aware of it and they knew it was coming uh and then when i told them guess what it's going to be available on tv instead that was just happiness like that great like so it was still a movie but it was a movie that they could watch quickly so are they anticipating mulan in that same way i haven't mentioned to them because i don't want to pay 30 for it so i'm going to see how long i can string this out they but in terms of like i think what you're asking in another way though is like by having everything on the same interface yes is that is there a flattening effect right into that

i will say yes and this is something we say on the watch a lot which is if you ask them do they like mulan my older daughter would say i love mulan especially mulan 2 now mulan 2 is like many disney sequels sort of straight to video bus schlock that is not necessarily canon or whatever that means anymore. But for her, it's just like, I can't believe it. There's a Cinderella 2. And there's a Cinderella 3. There's Lady and the Tramp 2, Scamp's Tale, which is literally Lady and the Tramp again with their kid. And all of it is available on Disney+, and all of it

is of equal value and entertainment. I think that's the perfect place to turn the car onto the watch highway. Yeah, I agree. So, in the next episode of The Watch, we're going to be talking about the ways in which I think TV is kind of turning into movies. And you guys can push back on that if you like. Is this a cliffhanger TV style

or is this the sting at the end of the credits where you're setting up the next installment? Sting the musical artist? The sting. The beloved 1970s film. No. Sting should sing

Fields of Gold at the end of every film. Especially Justice League. As my father said in the early 90s about Fields of Gold, a fine song. Okay.

If you want to hear more of this very serious and important conversation about movies and television, please flip over to The Watch right now. Amanda, as usual, thank you.

Andy and Chris, thanks for being here in my backyard. Appreciate it. Now let's go to my conversation with Alex Winter and Keanu Reeves.

Today's episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by NHTSA. Everyone knows about the risks of driving drunk. You could get in a crash. People could get hurt or killed. But let's take a moment to look at some surprising statistics. Almost 29 people in the United States die every day in alcohol-impaired vehicle crashes. That's one person every 50 minutes. Even though drunk driving fatalities have fallen by a third in the last three decades,

drunk driving crashes still claim more than 10,000 lives each year. Drunk driving can have a big impact on your wallet too. You could get arrested and incur huge legal expenses. You could possibly even lose your job. So what can you do to prevent drunk driving? Plan a safe ride home before you start drinking. Designate a sober driver or call a taxi. If someone you know has been drinking, take their keys and arrange for them to get a sober ride home.

We all know the consequences of driving drunk. But one thing's for sure, you're wrong if you think it's no big deal. Drive sober, get pulled over. Just honored to be joined by the great Keanu Reeves and the great Alex Winter. Thanks guys for joining the show. Let's just start right up top. The characters are so specific and iconic to fans. Was it difficult at all for

you to recapture or revive the bill and tedness in your performances um you know it was a very contemplated thoughtful uh approach that alex and i took i'm being sincere and uh you know the writers gave us a great script, and we loved the premise that we were meeting these characters all these years later, and just how life had impacted them and where their lives were now. And we didn't want to play caricatures of our, you know, earlier selves, and nostalgia. You know? So we really, Alex and I worked with the writers and with the director Dean Pariseau and we worked a lot together

just on the script and our approach and what we were doing. We had never really, we'd never contemplated doing another one of these. And, you know, we've remained friends

and we've remained friends with Chris and Ed, the writers, Chris Matheson and Ed Solomon. We've never talked about doing another movie in all of our conversations and not in any serious way, sometimes just as a lark. So when they brought us this idea some years ago, seriously, the thing that we sparked to was that there seemed to be a way to play them, that the whole, the whole conceit concept of finding Bill and Ted all these years later, and they haven't written the song and they've got, you know, their lives and their kids and their adult responsibilities. It immediately seemed like a really funny idea from a comic perspective,

but I think also for Keanu and myself uh quite surprisingly it felt like something we could do like it was like oh i could i could see how we could play these parts um and that then took work we had to figure out how that was going to work uh to keanu's point um and that took quite a bit of thought and prep. And we did take that quite seriously. You know, we wanted them to feel lived in and to feel the gravitas of life and what that had done to these guys. But we didn't want them to A, be somebody else other than the guys you knew. And we didn't want them to be like carbon copies of the guys you last saw. Before the filming began, when was the last time you guys were together holding guitars in your hand? Oh gosh, long time. Yeah, Keanu kept playing,

I gave up. Like could it have been 1991? Is that possible? No, it was after that, but not long after that. Okay, maybe 91 and a half. What was the most fun version of yourselves that you guys got to play? Sort of future versions from this film. Wow. I mean, I think from a makeup standpoint, or special makeups, the prisoners, but the characters, they all had their own joy.

So we played about, we played, what is it? Five versions of ourselves? So, four versions. Wait. Us, there's us, prison, thing, oh God, four versions of ourselves. And, you know,

they, it was cool just how emotionally, because for the most part, the other Bill and Ted's are really mad at us. Mad and sad. Future us's. Was there anything that you guys couldn't do or didn't

do in the first two films that you felt like it was important to do in this movie? I felt important. I felt like it was very gratifying to play so many different shades of Bill and Ted. That if we were going to come back to, and this was inherent in what the guys envisioned when they, when they constructed the new idea. But from an acting standpoint, it was quite gratifying. If we're going to come back all these years later to not just regurgitate some version of the previous two movies, but to actually explore other aspects of the characters.

I'm really glad that they did. I mean, they're, you know, they're good writers and they didn't want to just rehash themselves, but they went even further than they could have or even needed to probably. And that gave Keanu and myself the opportunity to also do that from an acting standpoint. So like, let's dig in and figure out who these guys are.

And we would add little details or depth or whatever to the different versions of themselves. And even to the way they relate to their daughters, the way they relate to their wives, the way Ted relates to his dad. Like there was lots of stuff to play with here uh that was really fun and also challenging if you guys could go back in time yourselves and bring a musician to the present day who is the person that you would want to bring who are we who are we bringing back uh so uh i guess from the past they could be dead and here we are.

Man, I wouldn't mind seeing him hanging out with John Lennon. Yeah, that would be pretty fantastic. For me, maybe Miles. I'd be curious to see what Miles Davis would do with the world we live in today.

I have a feeling it would be pretty hardcore. When you guys were, you know, in the first two films, the music that Bill and Ted cared about and were playing was sort of at the center of culture in a lot of ways. And it's not as much anymore. Was that something that you talked about as you were working on the script or as you thought about what musicians should participate in this movie? I don't think we, Alex, we didn't have any really input in that, didn't we? I mean, Oh no, that was, that was, uh,

those conversations would have been between Chris and Ed. Um, uh, we, we talked about, you know, how Bill and Ted fit into the world. Uh, musically we talked about, you know, we were interested in, in, in what the Dodgers were doing musically and their relationship to music and how music had, had changed and evolved, you know, since our era. The one thing that, that we, that was important to us and it was important to the writer. So it wasn't a debate as much of a, as a,

as something that we all kind of drove towards was this is not a nostalgia piece it was not about uh two people trying to go back to a style of music that was bygone it was more about the you know bill and ted always loved music because you know of the power of music and and that would be just as true today as it would have been you know back in the day and that's why why we love the, you know, the idea that the writers had for us when you get when you find us at the beginning. Because even though we haven't succeeded in writing a song that saved the world, we're still exploring musically. Right. We're still like we haven't become cynical. We're still trying to drive into music.

We're not just like two guys playing the exact same type of music that you just last saw us play 25 years later. Bridget and Samara have an uncanny, not just visual, but kind of vocal and emotional resemblance to Bill & Ted. Did you guys have to put them through some sort of Bill & Ted boot camp? How did that work? No. They came with their own supplies of talent and creativity and imagination. You know, we had a chance to, I mean, I don't know how it impacted them in their performances, but, you know, we did get to do read-throughs and rehearse together and spend time together. Both Alex and I feel like they did marvelous performances. It's a tough tone and roles to play. I thought that their individuality and creativity and how they carried the film.

It's really cool. We were eager, as were they, for them not to be knockoffs of us and not to feel that anyone expected them to be showing up and pretending to be us. It was really important to the story that they be their own people. That's kind of the whole thematic point of their characters. And they're very talented,

so they had no trouble with that. They went out and developed their own versions of who they were. So just to wrap up, guys, we end every episode of the show by asking folks, what's the last great thing they've seen? Have you guys been watching anything good in quarantine? Last great thing I've seen.

It was it was really cool just to look at some Wachowski films. You know, it was cool just to actually revisit and see because I hadn't watched them for a while like to watch Reloaded and Revolutions I mean I know that it's just they're such wonderful films yeah amazing at my house we've been we were waiting with bated breath for Hamilton to hit uh VOD and so we've all been bathing in in Hamilton the film and the soundtrack, kind of around the clock. There's also been great music that's gotten released over the quarantine. You know, the Fiona Apple album, the Bob Dylan album. I mean, those have gotten me through this pandemic, those two albums. It's so unbelievably great.

So there's been incredible art that's been coming out. That's awesome. Well, I think the Bill & Ted Face the Music is going to make people happy too. So thanks guys for taking the time. I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks Sean. Thank you.

Thank you to Amanda, Andy, Chris, Alex, and Keanu, and Bobby Wagner and Kaya McMullen. Today's episode of The Big Picture was brought to you by NHTSA. Everyone knows about the risks of driving drunk. You could get in a crash, people could get hurt or killed, but that still doesn't stop everyone. You could get arrested, you could incur huge legal expenses, and you could possibly even lose your job. We all know the consequences of driving drunk, but one thing's for sure, you're wrong if you think it's no big deal. Drive sober or get pulled over.