The Big Picture - ‘Beetlejuice Beetlejuice’ and Top Five Tim Burton Movies

Episode Date: September 6, 2024

Sean and Amanda are joined by ‘Higher Learning’ and ‘Midnight Boys’ cohost Van Lathan to discuss the successes and shortcomings of ‘Beetlejuice Beetlejuice,’ another mega-sequel that's shaping up to perform well at this weekend’s box office (1:00). They discuss Michael Keaton’s return to the namesake character, how the bloated plot prevents it from reaching the highs of the first, the satisfying return of the original cast, and the refreshing addition of Jenna Ortega. Then, they get into the incredible run Tim Burton kicked his career off with and the precipitous drop-off that followed, before sharing their five favorite Burton movies (1:04:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Van Lathan Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, I won't be saying it a third time. Today on the show, we're discussing the sequel to Tim Burton's 1988 horror comedy classic. We're also picking our five favorite Burton movies and discussing his legacy as a filmmaker. Joining us, Van Lathan. Hello.

What's up, guys? Thank you for being here. Maybe we should say it three times. You want to say it? Well, I'm just, you know, I think the spirit of this conversation is going to be that Beetlejuice himself. You want to conjure him. Yeah, because we have a great time when he's around. That's true.

So maybe you can say it. I don't want to do it. You don't want to do it. Because I've never... You know all the stuff that you could do back in the day, like say Bloody Mary in the mirror and say Candyman's name? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was always... Because I would be the one person that would do it. And then it would actually happen.

That's how I always looked at it. People would be like, go into the thing and do Bloody Mary. I was like, you go do it. I'm not doing any of that stuff. I'm very, so I feel like I could say Beetlejuice.

And then later on tonight, Beetlejuice would show up. We three saw Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, just the two times together. And I, you did like gasp when a character said it three times. You were like, you were literally like, oh no, I can't believe you did that gasp when a character said it three times yeah you were like

you were literally like oh no I can't believe you did that and I was like we are like actually here to watch the character Beetlejuice appear you know

we wanted to see him yeah once his name said it and I was like you fucking idiot you really did actually do that right

I think Beetlejuice might be the first time I had that sensation that you're talking about where you became aware of that kind of like mythology that you're not supposed to be reciting in your own house. Yeah. It's a pretty huge movie. We talked about it last week on the Michael Keaton Mount Rushmore.

Again, people are just loving it. They just that construction. That was positive. So much positive feedback on that. Thanks to all the listeners for being super cool. Do you know about this, Finn? I do not. So Sean came up with the general Mount Rushmore cool. Do you know about this, Finn? I do not. So, Sean came up with

the general Mount Rushmore concept. Well, I guess Mount Rushmore did and then Bill and then Sean. Yeah, there was the mountain that existed in the Dakotas.

Who invented Mount Rushmore? Well, Bill has been citing Mount Rushmore but I'm not sure he invented the idea of the four most significant figures in something as a concept.

But who was like, let's carve it into this mountain? What did the actual mountain? His name was Jim Rushmore. Okay. And he lived in that mountain. And one day he thought, I will begin carving.

Okay. Who shall I carve? Are you bullshitting right now? I was about to say Jim Rushmore. Pretty good. Okay. So like a top four. Okay.

And then Bobby threw in a curve ball, which was that you need to decide which of the four corresponds to which president on Mount Rushmore. Right. So we went through Michael Keaton's whole career and then we picked the four movies that were the most like Washington, Roosevelt. Yeah. And this necessitates both like a knowledge of which four presidents are on Mount Rushmore.

Which I don't think I could tell you right now. Well, I had a hard time the first time as well. Guess. Washington, Roosevelt, Jefferson. Yeah. Lincoln? Correct. Correct.

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we chose Beetlejuice for Jefferson, I believe. Is that right? I don't remember. Maybe also Roosevelt because everyone's understandings of what those four presidents mean to history and America is lacking, I would say.

You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then the people on the internet really love our history. They love... Yeah, yeah, yeah. They did not. Right, right, right, right, right. But that's okay.

Nevertheless, Beetlejuice, what does that movie mean to you? And what were you thinking going into this new one? First, I was very jazzed because it represents two things number one the continuation of a story that i absolutely loved as a kid like beetlejuice was so funny so amazing i remember michael keaton in the batman movie when he goes you want to get nuts come on and when he does the come on i'm like that's beetlejuice that just popped out of michael keaton right there loved it. And it also is very important to the Michael Keaton resurgence that we've seen, I guess, since Birdman. I mean, he was always around, but he really came back strong. And it's been so good to see him back.

So this movie coming back is kind of indicative of that, too. So I was very excited to see it. It's like the capstone to this 10- year run that he's had because Birdman was 2014 he had Spotlight we talked about this kind of latter half you know

obviously he was the vulture in the Spider-Man movies it's been pretty much ever present in our lives this feels like

the culmination of that third wave of Keaton sort of but really of the comeback yeah

so you talked a little bit about Beetlejuice you like Beetlejuice you've been mocking my anticipation for this film for months. Vegas. Yeah. That's a good description. He sent me and Chris a lot of texts being like, the word on the ground is Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice is back. Is that tracking with what you're hearing? It was like some of the most preposterous. I mean, thank you. That was the correct response. The word on the ground is Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. And he was literally like,

does this track with what you guys are hearing? And this is like April and, you know, at like 4 p.m. And Chris and I are just, you know, trying to get through the day. So, yeah, we've been making fun of him and his hype meter. But the truth is, people are really anticipating this.

It's tracking like incredibly... Very high. Very high. It opened the Venice Film Festival, which was really me getting some of my own karma back. An astounding

four-minute standing ovation. No, no, no, no, no, no. I think it was three. Three minutes. Geez, Louise. Which is like being spit in the face. Yeah. I mean, obviously, it was hyping up the way that the studios were talking about this movie,

which they thought it would be a big hit when I was at that event. Personally, you know, I have a complicated relationship to legacy sequels like this. We did talk about Top Gun Maverick being a good example of something like this. It's hard though, one, just for the actors to be alive this many years later.

The fact that most of the cast is around and available to reprise their roles. Also, the filmmaker is back for this. That's also something

that doesn't usually happen when we make another movie like this. You know, famously, Tony Scott was not alive when Top Gun Maverick was made.

So, I love Tim Burton in theory, although I have not loved a movie of his for a long time. I was very tentative about this movie. I don't think my expectations were super high, despite liking what I saw out of the trailers. You were excited? Yeah. So when you're growing up in the age that I am, Tim Burton is the first director that's like, oh, I see his movie, I know he did it.

He's the first quirky guy with a style. I was just talking to someone about this. He's the person who basically made you understand auteur theory. Right.

Because you're like, he has a look, a feel, things he's interested in. Yes. Yeah, like you see Pee-wee's Big Adventure and you're like, oh my God,

that movie is a little odd, right? And then you see Batman and then you see Beetlejuice and you go, oh, that guy makes movies like that. So that's very, very important to be able to identify that. Like he's like, especially if you really love film, he's very important to your development and how you look. And then you start saying,

oh, I can see when Michael Mann makes a movie. I can see when Spielberg makes a movie. You start to be able to like notice that. So just to see him back and doing something that i was interested in was very important because i completely punted on tim burton for a while now i will get a lot more into it but also like beale juice is one of those weird one-offs where you wonder why they haven't come back to it before now it was it was a movie that like like, was super interesting. Think of the premise of the movie. A newly dead couple

figuring out the afterlife. It's just like super intoxicating, especially around that time. They didn't do anything else with it. Everybody went on to have great careers, and they never came back to it. And seeing them do it now, I just wanted to see what they were going to cook up. Yeah, I think it's specifically the idea of

the world building of what the afterlife is, the idea of it as a bureaucracy and all of these moving parts. You know, that's a pretty, it's like an hour and 40 minute movie, and it packs in a lot of information into it. They did try to make a version of this movie many times. There were particularly two versions of a Beetlejuice sequel that were in development for a long time. The first was called Beetlejuice in Love, which started as early as 1990. Never quite got off the ground. But that's interesting information for what we're about to discuss.

It is. The second was called, I think, Beetlejuice Goes to Hawaii, which was meant to be like a surf movie from the 50s, but with Beetlejuice. And it would be this idea of the German expression and clashing with the surf movie. Those two movies never really came to fruition. They went back to Beetlejuice Goes to Hawaii like 10 or 15 years later and looked at it. Cut to 2011, Seth Graham Smith, who, you know, worked on Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter. Is that what it's called? I can't even remember if that was the name of the movie. I'm going to be honest with you.

He wrote Tim Burton's Dark Shadows. He started working on a second Beetlejuice movie. You're going to hate to hear this. What? I fucking love that shit. No, that movie is terrible. In fact... I fucking love... Sean, I fucking love that dumbass shit. Let me bring it full circle. That dumb... I fucking... I like that guy.

I love that dumbass movie. What happened to that guy? Benjamin Walker. I know. I was literally just Googling Benjamin Walker. Where are you now? So I edited a review of that movie written for Granlin.com, written by her husband, Zach Barron. And I had to convince him to go see the movie because he doesn't love horror. And I was like, I think this movie might be a thing. Lo and behold, his skepticism was proven right.

It was not a thing until this very moment when you tried to reclaim it for the culture. We will not be reclaiming that movie. Oh, he's apparently on the rings of power oh good for him he's uh he plays the high king of the noldoran elves with the way you read that i wanted to get it right man you guys know you guys know about that before who is Gil Galad I have no fucking God Gil Galad keep trying

keep going before you arrived at the movie theater last night Ben and I were sitting together watching trailers and the trailer

for Lord of the Rings colon the war of the Hobbits for the Rohirrim they're bad they had no idea what it was and I was like

this is gonna be cool he's gonna get to see that there's a new Lord of the Rings movie albeit animated and then you just blanked me you were like i'm not interested in this i don't have this blind spot i don't do it either yeah like joe's gonna hate this she hates the way i throw a little shade joe is my joe is my lore mom she's my lore queen yeah so i go to

joe for all of this stuff but like lord of the rings is a blind spot i don't care i'm with you and i think that's okay yeah it's like people have their worlds that they're into but i you know the hobbits they sing i don't know tree people you know stuff anyway that's where benjamin walker is anyhow seth graham smith who wrote dark shadows uh started working on a story that eventually became this movie more screenwriters came in and so we have beetlejuice beetlejuice amanda what did you think of the movie i had a nice time as i said to van when the lights went down lights went up that was a lot there's a lot that they crammed in there and it seems like they crammed in beetlejuice in love not hawaii which is sad maybe i would have liked that but every single reference uh every single plot line that has maybe been tossed around in a text message in the last 36 years.

And not all of it was necessary. And it felt overstuffed at times. But listen, I was giggling. You guys were giggling. You know? I couldn't see you, Sean. But I could hear you laughing a lot. So I've had way worse times in the movies this year.

Especially with movies like this. How'd you feel similarly? Yeah. I've never been in a movie or haven't been in a movie for a long time that was that close to sucking that ended up being good. Like it was really right on the cusp of like, well, what the hell, man? And then it flipped. And the movie became like one of the most fun times that I had. But it was bogged down. There were three or four storylines going at the same time. Some stuff didn't make any sense. And there's actually, the movie is good.

Like I had a fun time. But there's actually like a great movie in there. Yes. Which is kind of frustrating. You said that right after the screening. That's kind of how I feel. I think this is a pretty mixed bag

and the things that you think are going to be good in this movie are clearly good. Michael Keaton, for example, as Beetlejuice, every time he shows

up in the movie, the movie comes to life. You know, which I guess is ironic since he is a bioexorcist. But I totally agree with Amanda. There's a lot of

characters in this movie and there's a lot, there's not as much editing. There could have been some pruning. A lot of actors that I like as well. I mean, it's a great, great, great cast and there's a lot there's not as much editing there could have been some pruning a lot of actors that I like as well I mean it's a

great great great cast it's you know reprising their roles Michael Keaton Winona Ryder Catherine O'Hara plus you've also got this new big young

star Jenna Ortega she's got her own storyline you've got Justin Theroux he's got a big storyline Monica Bellucci shows up she's got a storyline

Willem Dafoe shows up he's got a storyline well does he but whatever he's there it's always nice to see Willem Dafoe but his character is got a storyline well does he but whatever he's there it's always nice to see Willem Dafoe

but his character is one that probably could have been excised but he doesn't have a storyline but he's I'm happy that he's there he's just I've never seen him

that way before but you giggled that way he's funny he is funny but like he's funny I've never I've literally I tried to think

when I got home what's the funniest Willem Dafoe like performance I've never seen him that way before. He was legitimately funny. Reminded me a little bit of what he does in Wes Anderson movies, you know, where he's very big and broad, you know, like in Life Aquatic or Grand Budapest. But he's very funny in this movie.

You know, it takes place 36 years after the original, just like in real life. We're following the Dietz family again. We learn very early on in the movie that Charles Diet deets the paterfamilias has been killed in a shark accident after his plane crashed this has been done because jeffrey jones the actor who portrayed charles in the original film has been has been charged and convicted of sex crimes and is not a person you'll ever see in an american movie more than likely yeah so they animate him and then show his death as a shark and then in in the film, we see, I think pretty humorously, him being a half person with no head and shoulders.

Yes, exactly. And we see him in this sort of the afterlife. But that event, which happens very early on in the film, is sort of the orienting event because his funeral and this gathering returns everyone to Winter River. Is that the name of the town in Connecticut where they all used to live? And that leads to eventually the return of a Beetlejuice figure and all of the characters that are introduced throughout this film colliding with each other.

I think I struggled maybe with this movie a little bit more than you guys. Okay. Because. I mean, because you've been living with it for months and months on end. Well, I think it's a little bit more than you guys. Okay. Because... I mean, because you've been living with it for months and months on end. Well, I think it's a little bit of the problem that a lot of grown-up adults have when they see new versions of things

that they liked when they were kids. Which is, we already have Beetlejuice, right? And every time they tried to do something that was like, what if it was also like this? I was like, well, that's just not as good as the thing that I saw before. I don't know if that's like a sophisticated level of criticism, but something was just kind of gnawing at the back of my neck while I was watching the movie.

I was like, this isn't totally right. This doesn't feel exact. I laughed. Oh, you're. You're 100% correct. Without a doubt. Yeah. But like it, because the only character that,

there are only two characters in the movie that seem like they exist in the same world that we saw before. And it's, to me, it's Beetlejuice and it's Catherine O'Hara's character, who she's, it's even the way she long blinks and very, very, very small things that she did in the first movie they seem

like they're in the same mood everybody else it feels like and i this is a very overused term it feels like cosplay a little bit like just a little bit and it took me a while it's not to the movie gets super duper zany it took me a while to fall back into the world that was created in 88. There's nothing. I think you're absolutely right in that, to be honest with you. Right. Well, there are also, I think some of that is the construction of the movie where maybe they think they're trying to ease you back in. But Lydia, Winona Ryder's character, is basically doing Burton cosplay and is a YouTube,

well, she's a TV star, but, you know, she's basically a YouTuber. It's like a Ghost Hunter style discovery channel. Right, and they're making like a very cheap show and it's like sort of a send up

of like the culture that has emerged from Beetlejuice and also like our current moments. So it feels like a little, it's supposed to feel a little fake. And there's something else that happens as well with these movies to me. And it's just a difference in the way

that the movies would, the way we approach filmmaking now is from back in the good old days. When Beetlejuice first came out, the characters that were the Deeds family, they took themselves seriously. They weren't like, like the Justin Theroux character in this movie

isn't a real person. Like it's not a, it's a, it's a send up. He's very broad and zany. Yeah, but like Otho and the dad and the mom and all of these people, they were yuppie, sort of pretentious, whatever, but they were serious to themselves. They were like, it was actually,

there was the realism of who they were and the clash of them and the Maitland family is what kind of made the movie work. But while all these characters now, they're kind of send-ups of people, and they're playing it in a very on-the-nose way the priest um who that guy i don't know that guy's name but he's been gorman but he's been in a very familiar face yeah yeah and so like for that it kind of was like uh it was like sketch comedy in a way

i i agree i think the other thing to consider is that the original film is at least at the outset of the movie very much adam and barbara maitland's movie two characters who I think we were all kind of waiting to show up in this movie and then don't show up. I don't think that's a spoiler to say that, but they were played by Alec Baldwin and Geena Davis. And they were sort of our POV characters, our sort of portal into this new world as newly dead people exploring and figuring out all of this stuff. This movie is more focused on the Dietzes. And even though I agree with you that they are grounded in that first film they're still odd they're odd for sure they're odd and but sincerely odd sincerely odd but and if you play them bigger then the movie feels more like a certainly more like a comedy than like a horror movie you know beetlejuice at times the original film

scary and strange you don't really know where it's going especially if you're younger this movie just felt almost parodic. Almost like a self-aware exploration of the Beetlejuice mythology. No, there are always some things in movies like this that I'm going to enjoy. Every Tim Burton movie is some sort of active homage to a movie history. If you look at it, it's like he was Big Adventure. It's like Dorothy in Wizard of Oz. Batman is like the cabinet of Dr. Caligari.

This is a movie that's like basically an Italian horror movie. There's literally a long Italian homage to a Mario Bava movie. And then five minutes later, they literally say the name Mario Bava, you know, film festival. I like that he always does that. I like that he's always like, don't forget about Vincent Price. Don't forget about the history of horror in movies and what all this stuff means.

But it actually felt worse in a movie like this, which is just more of a broad studio comedy, to shoehorn in some of that personal eccentricity. And I wonder if, you know, the 10 or 15 years and the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and the Dumbo and all that stuff has kind of like bled Tim Burton down a path he can never stray from now. Does that seem unfair to you? No, it seems like an accurate reading. And it also just seems like an effort to broaden the audience. You know, this is positioned at people who saw Beetlejuice when they were young, right? We were all, this was 36 years ago. And then they're also hoping that we will bring the next generation, which is why Jenna Ortega is in it.

Which is why there's like a weird phone TikTok stunt in it. So I think that there is something very conscious about being, I want to do my Tim Burton stuff, but I also have been making broad or hopefully broad studio movies for the past 20 years. So, you know, let's, let's enact the reference, but also then say the name of the reference just to make sure that,

you know, the new people learn. And there's, I mean, the entire first 30 minutes with like the true crap, you know, ghost hunter, spooky stuff and the internet and all that is like hey kids

here's something for you so it's natural to be disappointed in that i think the thing that's most like that i'm curious for your opinions is just the presence of jenna ortega who is a genuine gen z star superstar we've had some debate about her and over the last couple years about like how much of a star she actually is. I don't know if you what were your thoughts on her? I went to a friend of mine's house and in New York and his daughter comes down, the daughter's 15,

16 years old and she's wearing a Jenna Ortega shirt. And I was like, oh, like a shirt with the actress on there. Right. And she's like, yeah. Like the shirt that Amanda was wearing this week with Josh Hartnett's face on it. Wow. Thank you.

It was actually five Josh Hartnett faces. You're happy he's back. Yeah. He's back, by the way. I know. I was leading the charge. I'm trying. He was one of the top.

Wait a minute. What? Where's that guy? Yeah. Literally, it was like, what happened to him? He went off and raised a family. Yeah, in the UK. He's got four kids. Oh, for real? Yeah. Good for him. And a family. Yeah, in the UK, he's got four kids.

Oh, for real? Yeah. Good for him. And then he comes back and says, oh, that's the guy. Remember that guy? He's like, no, it's Josh. We like him. He's good.

We love him. Yeah, he's good. He can do a lot of different stuff. And so I asked her about it. And this is, the young woman is a big horror fan. We were talking about me and her seeing Terrifier 3. We talked about Terrifier 2. We talked about Terrifier 1.

Yes. When are we seeing Terrifier 3? We're going to see.. We talked about Terrifier 1. And so... When are we seeing Terrifier 3? We're going to see... I mean, whenever it drops, I'll go see it. Yeah, let's go. Yeah, I can't wait.

Amanda's not coming. Yeah, I got Art the Clown. Art the Clown. Okay. It's my guy. So we were talking about it. That's your guy? So this is what I'll say.

That's dangerous. It is dangerous. I'm going Terrifier 3 right now. It is dangerous. And I'll tell you why. But like, if I'm going to do horror, it can't be anything supernatural. And this is going to sound so stupid, Sean.

Yeah. It can't be anything supernatural with like the nun and Jesus stuff and all of that stuff. Because I believe that that stuff is real. Okay. Right? You know what I mean? But you don't believe that a strange drifter who dresses like a clown and serial murders dozens of people is real? Because that is real.

But I got guns at the crib. So, you know what I mean? I mean, listen, be prepared. So, you know what I mean? So, Art the Clown can get clapped. Yeah. But, like, the nun, exorcist, all of that type of stuff that you can't do anything about, I don't really want to. Because I believe that that stuff is real.

You know what I mean? It's a good take. So Terrifier 3, I can go see it because Arthur Clown, I'll put some on your ass, you know? But when I talked to her about Jenna Ortega, she worshipped her. Because of Wednesday? Because of what? Because of Wednesday. She's a horror fan because of Scream. Because of the T Because of Wednesday. Because of... She's a horror fan. Because of Scream. Yeah.

Because of the T. West movie. So she really was into her. And she is out here. Her press run has been incredible of just throwing out arcane film references. And then Winona is like, we were waiting for Jenna Ortega, the true next generation cinephile,

to come along. She was like, my favorite movie is Possession. I was like, I'm a Jenna Ortega fan for life. So almost in a way that I haven't seen her, like a young star resonate. There's a little bit of it with Florence Pugh, but like a young female star resonate with an audience in a while. I actually think it's real because I heard it directly from the kids.

Yeah. I mean, the person that reminds me a little bit of is Winona Ryder. Same thing. Winona Ryder very similarly, especially at the time of Beetlejuice, is somebody who became like instantly canonical in the history of young Hollywood actresses, where she had a very distinct style. She was sort of like the goth icon. She is somebody who very quickly sought out working with great actors,

worked with Coppola, worked with Scorsese, like, you know, spent a lot of time talking about what a cinephile she was. She was recently in The Criterion Closet, amazing episode of the Criterion Closet. Winona, still just absolutely just the best, like a very important woman to me in the world. And frankly, she should be very quietly, subliminally taking down Millie Bobby Brown, which is really what all those comments are about, about how she doesn't watch movies and Jenna Ortega does watch movies and therefore Jenna Ortega is superior. That's basically

what that whole press campaign is about. I didn't see it. It was really funny. Winona, I think she's pretty good in this movie. I didn't really...

She's definitely not on the level of Michael Keaton just sliding right back into Beetlejuice. It's amazing that Keaton... Because of the makeup, it is like no time has passed I'm like oh you look

the same and you're still as agile and the timing is like I mean it's so funny and there is something about because you are waiting so long for him to show up and man that was one thing another thing you said when we walked out was like he's not in it that much yeah he's also not in the first one that much. Which I watched it when I got home and I had no concept of until you actually said it. Right. Because the movie feels like, in that movie, it feels like he was lurking around every corner.

And in this movie, it doesn't quite feel that way. You're right. You're right. It's a good point. There's this sort of like suggestion that someone is coming, someone is coming,

someone is coming throughout is coming someone is coming throughout the first film and this film it's like I mean everybody's here and he's gonna be here any minute now

and in fact the movie does something that I thought it was a funny set piece but I thought it was a mistake which was that he's introduced in the movie

a little bit earlier than it felt like he should have been with the couples therapy moment where Justin Theroux's character is the first one to say Beetlejuice three times. And then they get sent into the sort of the underworld with him. And I think if they had waited until the moment when Winona Ryder's character is trying to save her daughter and then she, in an act of desperation, knows she needs to go to Beetlejuice. Just from a pure narrative movie experience, I think that would have been a much bigger payoff for us to finally get to see Keaton 49 minutes into the movie. You know what I'm saying?

Yes, but also you can't make a sequel called Beetlejuice. I mean, it's just sort of there is like an existential problem within a sequel to Beetlejuice when all everybody wants is more Beetlejuice. But of course, what made the original so magic was like the like very like sparing restraint, but also over the top hilarious use of Beetlejuice. So, you know, what are you supposed to do? On the Tim Burton front, I'll say this. There's one thing in this movie, and I don't want to pick on this character or this actress because I love her. There's one thing in this movie that to me is indicative of the difference in Tim Burton, 88 and Tim Burton now, is Monica Bellucci being in this movie. Like, that's his girlfriend, right?

Yeah. And so. A man who is famed for putting his girlfriend in his movies. Loves to put his girlfriend in his movies, right? Lisa Marie, Helena Bonham Carter, they always play a role in his movies. Right. That's his girlfriend in his movies. Loves to put his girlfriend in his movies, right? Lisa Marie, Helena Bonham Carter, they always play a role in his movies. Right, that's his girlfriend. Like, in 88,

he wasn't to the point to where he could just plop his girlfriend in the movie, right? And with a lot of times with directors as they age, it's actually about controlling how big and how much ego

and how much of them they can put in their films and how dedicated they are to just the them they can put in their films and how dedicated they are to just the story that they're trying to tell especially the greats now most directors you give them more leash you get more good stuff but there's always a better version of the movie that they're trying to make to me and the best version of this movie just does not have monica bellucci it's true it just it it. Like, it's always good to see her. She's impossibly beautiful.

She's always charismatic on screen. But if you yank her out of this movie, it's probably an easier story to tell. And I honestly did not realize they were dating. Like, I went home and looked up the movie to do some stuff, and I'm like, oh. At this point, he's to the point where no one can, no one can't tell him not to put his girl in the movie to do some stuff and I'm like, oh. At this point, he's to the point

where no one can, no one can't tell him not to put his girl in it. I mean, they need him to make the movie. That's the thing. It's like, you kind of can't make

a Beetlejuice movie without Burton. I will say the introduction of her character who is the sort of, I guess, ex-wife of the Beetlejuice character,

the introduction is really cool. That was very Beetlejuicy, the sort of like reconstruction of her body after the boxes fall off the ground when Janitor Danny DeVito walks through. But I think I agree.

I talked to somebody yesterday who saw the movie too and was just like, this is extraneous. We don't need this. It's true, though it also does set up, like you said, that four-minute Italian horror homage, which was really good. It was fun. There are a lot of just like

very cool artistic sequences within the movie that it's like, well, did we really need this to like the storyline of Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice? No, but also like at some point, are we here for the storyline of Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice?

It's true. Are we here for the, so I completely agree with you. And they're like, it's unfair to Monica Bellucci because obviously she looks beautiful, but most of the time she's just like walking around silently in hallways it's like they couldn't it's true that's all she's doing they couldn't decide which movie they wanted to make either movie because we haven't even talked

about dead boy uh uh oh the teenager the dead ghost Jeremy yes Jeremy, yes. Jeremy. So either movie, if we're doing a movie now where Beetlejuice is the prey for the entire thing and then Lydia, that's so awesome as a premise, right? I totally agree. And then if we do a movie

where the dead boyfriend shows up earlier in the film and then Beetlejuice has to help and then that whole thing, that is also awesome. But they tried to do them both and they're clunky together i completely agree totally agree plus then justin thoreau is there as like a reality tv producer yes i will say that the jeremy plot line i wanted to discuss with you

guys yeah so arthur conti is this young actor who plays a boy who jenna ortega's character meets cute the way that you do when you're an alienated teenager and you come across a soul match. Which is, she crashes her bike through the fence and into his tree. And he's in a tree house. No bruise.

It looked like quite a spill, too. Hit her face directly on the tree. Yeah. No bruise. And she's chilling. Okay, so this guy I'm learning is on House of the Dragon. He is.

Well, he was only in one. Ah! Well, I Googled it. That's where I know him from. I kept trying to figure it out. No Wikipedia page for him yet. People need to get on that. So Arthur Conti and Jenna Ortega's characters,

they start this teen romance. And I told this to you guys last night. When this sequence started happening in the movie, I was like, get me the fuck out of here. I was like, what kind of bullshit Stranger Things appeal to 14-year-olds is happening in my movie i was like get me the fuck out of here i was like what kind of bullshit stranger things appeal to 14 year olds is happening in my beetlejuice movie and then credit to the screenwriters and tim burton they were like that's not what we're doing at all in fact this is something completely different and this character is not at all what you thought he was um i was like you know in that rare state of sean panic like movie panic where i

was like you fucked me on this beetlelejuice, Beetlejuice. But they didn't. There's also something like, so like very primal, like 11 year old Sean being like, I don't want to see people fucking kiss right now. Well, it was also like the Sigur Rós needle drop and, you know,

like all this like indie rock. I turned to Van at some point. You did yell physical media. No, I'm talking about his record collection and the book that he picked up that is like the handbook for dying. Well, Amanda, he was aghast at the needle drop when they were driving.

He was like, have you ever seen him drop like a pop movie, a pop music reference in a movie like this? Well, Tim Burton never does that. I think it was a Mazzy Star song while she's riding on her bike through the town. And I was like, what is, this is not Tim Burton. Where the fuck are we right now? We're're on an episode of uh the year i turned pretty or

whatever the fuck that show's called um but fortunately that isn't what happened uh i actually really liked what they did there and i i guess on the plus side the movie has a pretty good sense of humor about dispatching with all these extraneous side plots you know like the way that all these characters get eliminated from the movie is very quick and very funny. Well, okay, but also, like, are you allowed to do that? Allowed to do what?

Can we talk about the... We're doing spoilers at this point. We're spoiling a critical moment from the film Beetlejuice Beetlejuice now. Spoiler warning. Like, when the sandworm showed up, I was like, what are we doing here? Copyright wise, you know?

I had wondered that years ago. Because obviously the sandworms feel like an homage to Dune. The David Lynch Dune is 84. Beetlejuice Beetlejuice is 88. At the time, it felt like it was. I had no concept of what Dune was when Beetlejuice dropped. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Zero concept.

As a matter of fact, the first time I ever put it together was in this movie when they literally have the ground shaking. Yeah, yeah. And I started doing like that. But like during that time, I had no concept of it.

Yeah. I stood up, saluted and said, shy hallooed when they have... That's what I'm talking about. I like that movie. Dune part two?

Yeah. Great film. And part one. Overall... I might have overstated how many times I saw it. I think it was only. I think you said it was 12.

It wasn't. How many was it? I can only actually remember. It was bullshit. I got to. I could only actually remember. It might be 12 now, but in theaters, because me and Khali could just run it on a loop. I can only actually remember six times.

Okay. Six times. That's still a lot. That's pretty good. It is. I have no idea why you said 12. When you said 12, I was like, that just doesn't seem possible. Yeah, it was only actually remember six times. Okay. Six times. That's still a lot. That's pretty good. It is. I have no idea why you said 12. When you said 12,

I was like, that just doesn't seem possible. Yeah, it was me over my skis. It happens. Sometimes I say, sometimes I, you know,

I mean, look, it's... You gotta bring the energy up. Are you saying you're an untrustworthy source on podcasts? I am a very trustworthy source. I'm a trustworthy

in the energy, but sometimes in the details, you might need to check on me. Interesting. Okay. We'll keep that in mind. What did you guys think of the big closing musical number i mean i i enjoyed it you know but that's like why i like going to the movies and it's funny um and i liked the homage to the things

that i like about the original um but it was also like oh you're doing this again at great length. Yes. So. I wondered which thing they would definitely bring back. Like, so in Top Gun Maverick, there is volleyball. There is. Well, it's football. It's football. Football, beach football. It's like dogfight, dogfight football. Yeah, sure.

Right. Yes. Which is definitely a real thing. In a legacy sequel, not in all of them, right? Because in Blade Runner, they didn't fucking do it. But like,

in a lot of the legacy... Harrison Ford was in that. Right. In a lot of the legacy sequels, they do it. I wondered which thing it would be from Beetlejuice that they would do again.

And I should have expected that it would be that. It totally worked for me. Yeah, I enjoyed it too. Good song choice. Yeah. And we won't spoil it for people and also it's just there's like a lot of keaton really letting loose agreed

this is a this is a pretty fun it's like a six out of ten five out of ten kind of situation for me fun fun fun oh but also like if you were looking forward to seeing beetlejuice beetlejuice in theaters because the original meant something to you and you're like, I'm going to go. You'll have a good time. You know? I agree. It's a well-made legacy sequel.

It doesn't depend too much on the, you know, hey, remember when this happened? Remember when this happened? There's some of it. You know,

there are sandworms. There's sing-along music moments, but, and it's not, it's thankfully not, I don't know, Outer Banks season three. That's what I was afraid of, you know? Do you I don't know, Outer Banks season three.

That's what I was afraid of, you know. Do you even know what happens on Outer Banks? The TV series? Yeah. I think like beautiful young people between the ages of 15 and 25 get into toured affairs. Right. But it's like a reality show, right? It's scripted.

Oh, it's scripted? Yeah. Oh, I never realized that. Okay. Man, I've never seen a second of it. Nor have I. Aren't they trying to, they're trying to find a buried treasure or something. I thought it was like Laguna Beach,

but, you know. I don't think so. I think what Van is saying is correct. Laguna Beach. What a time in life. You enjoyed that show? Bro, those are my whites. I'm telling you, man.

There were better whites back then. Those are my whites. Steven, LC, Lauren. I once was playing. I once played basketball with Steven Colletti. He came in the gym. I was trying to get this motherfucker shots. I was setting screens for him.

That was peak. Remember? Lo followed me on Twitter. Oh, my God. Eight years ago, and it was one of the great moments of my life. Who was the boyfriend? His name was Bobby something. Bobby O or something like that.

It was a crazy guy. Some kind of crazy dude that came on there as the boyfriend to one of them later on. I thought that was Audrina's boyfriend. Yeah, but it was Bobby. Yeah, I know who you're talking about, but I do also thought that was a Hills-Audrina situation. Maybe it's the Hills, but all of that's together. We're talking about Laguna Beach, the Hills, now 2-1-0 Melrose Place. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

These are all. Do you keep up with them? Like, are you up on what's going on with Kristen Cavallari these days? Nah. Okay. I did the podcast from What's Her Face and her husband, Spencer and Heidi. Yes. Oh, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I did their podcast. It was very fun to hang out with them. They seem regular, but that was an era to me. That was a great era. Of course, yeah, really formative. Yeah, for sure. I have no idea how to bring that back to tim burton like literally no clue i can't think of two things that have less

to do with each other than laguna beach well they're all they are um california well i was gonna say like very particular deeply defined aesthetics and a world unto their own. Oh, that's good. You're really looking at the text. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I've always found it extremely funny that Tim Burton is from Burbank. It is funny. You'd think he is from Castle, like Transylvania, Castlevania.

Bro. Maybe Germany at worst. This is one of my most formative memories here. Okay, this is one of my most formative memories here. Okay, this is one of my most formative memories. Once again, Van loves to be nostalgic. I came from a better time in movies. I was born in a better time. It's just facts.

On HBO, there used to be the making of the movie. I love this. And you would sit down and you would watch the making of the movie. And Tim Burton said something I will never forget when they were talking about Edward Scissorhands. Tim Burton says, well, I'm from a place called Burbank, California. And in this place, everything looks the same and there are no seasons. And he said this when he was talking about the making of Edward Scissorhands. And I was like,

fuck. What do you mean? He says, all the houses look the same. There are no seasons. It stays the way that it is all the time. So when you inject Edward Scissorhands, even when Edward is making it snow and all of that stuff, he's making a movie about the town of his childhood and essentially putting himself, how he viewed himself into the movie.

And it just kind of like changed my perception of everything. So when I think about the fact that he's from Burbank now, I think about every film is him creating a world much more dynamic and visually pleasing than the one that he grew up with. He felt like the outcast. He keeps telling that same story over and over and over again i will just never forget that he said that because it made him as a filmmaker and that movie makes so much more sense like because if i didn't know what burbank

was like i had no clue and then i got out to california i'm driving around i'm like oh this motherfucker's telling the truth it's like everything looks the same and there are no seasons shout out to burbank but you know like that's what i think about when i think about him I'm driving around. I'm like, oh, this motherfucker's telling the truth. It's like everything looks the same and there are no seasons. Shout out to Burbank. But, you know, like that's what I think about when I think about him being from there. I think you just basically nailed the theory of his filmmaking point of view, which is that he is a person who is without a country, without a tribe, without a group of people who understand him. And almost, I would say, 95% of his lead characters are in those predicaments and that's the world that they enter but also a product of burbank and of like you know because there is

home of disney cal arts and all that stuff accessible and um you he's been raised in hollywood you know and it's so he is always and sometimes you get beetle always, and sometimes you get Beetlejuice and sometimes you get, you know, Dark Shadows or whatever. Oh, a child of popular culture. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Somebody who has consumed a lot of movies and television and is filtering it through. You know, we talk about that with folks like Tarantino. You know, in Saturday Night, the new Saturday Night Live movie, there's a moment where Lorne Michaels turns to network executives and says,

this is the first TV show made by the generation that was raised on TV. And, you know, it's a phrase I think has been uttered about Saturday Night Live before, but trenchant. And also very true of Tim Burton is somebody who's like really the first post-horror horror stylist, you know,

somebody who's basically taking what happens in horror movies and horror storytelling from the 40s through the 70s. And then it's like, here's my essentially like Disney informed pop network television informed extrapolation of that colliding with whatever high art, whatever animation styles you like, or whatever kind of, you know, international filmmaking you like. But you know, guy who worked disney as a as a story uh concept artist and a storyboarding artist and in those late 70s and early 80s disney movies he was there in the building for a lot of that stuff and really struggled to get his visions into those movies and then effectively like starts making shorts

and sets out on his own to make his own movies but that that friction between the commercial and yeah the outsider art is what makes him i think really really special but the fact that he can't translate it to like a broader audience because i would say for our generation and like certainly for me he was he was like creepy aesthetic you know that's how i learned about that was the first boys yeah horror movies like and all of these references and he was taking the 40s and 50s in this grand tradition and marrying it with like certainly a like a visual style that was new and but like familiar to people who had grown up on Disney or just more approachable. And so then he creates, you know, kind of like whimsy horror for our generation.

Yeah, Pee Wee is a kids movie. Yeah. It works as a kids movie. Now, there's some terrifying parts in the movie. Large Marge, it was scary to me. Like, you know what I mean there's well there's some there's some scary parts but that's works like as a kid's movie but it also has the sensibility of there being something just a little bit more sinister in there it feels like it takes place in a different

version of earth so like you're you're a little bit off balance but by the time they round it around and James Brolin is at the movie in the movie at the end it ends in a very disney way and like he pipelined right he's a cal arts guy right like so he's he's pipelined all the way through like a disney legend but uh just weird enough just weird enough to be not totally mainstream with what he was doing but also very mainstream i think that the disney part of it is really, really important. This is all top of mind because I've been watching so many Disney classics with my daughter over the last year. And we had this really funny experience where we went to Disneyland a couple of months ago.

And she had a great time and every ride was great. And, you know, she's running all through the park, except we got online for the Snow White ride. The Snow White ride is inside and sort of like a tram ride that you ride in. And we got right to for the snow white ride the snow white ride is inside and sort of like a tram ride that you ride in and we got right to the front of the line and i'm sure if she hears this 20 now 20 years from now she'll be embarrassed but she got scared and she was like i don't want to go on this ride take me away from this ride and she got really upset because that little moment with the when the wicked queen turns herself into an old crone to a little kid is really scary. Or if you watch Sleeping Beauty, the last five minutes with Maleficent,

when she turns into a dragon is really scary. She is scary. Those movies get intense. They get very, very scary. And you can feel him. You can feel his interest in those movies as a kid, like filtered into these movies. So he's like towing this line between how scary do I want to make Large Marge versus how fun and whimsical do I want to make Pee-wee's Adventure and, you know, tap dancing his way through biker bars.

So it makes it just a wholly unique blend. It's funny. I was rewatching Ed Wood last night, a movie that I've always loved. And that's a Disney movie. Touchstone picked that movie up because another studio wouldn't take it and it's almost him like circling the square on his career where he's like i'm gonna make an homage to a trash film artist for the biggest most historical children's movie studio which more or less fired me off of their animation team you know like it always feels like he's having these recurrences in his career beetlejuice beetlejuice being the most occurrence, but even the failure of a movie like Dumbo is fascinating because that

clearly set him on like a new course where he was like, I'll never work at Disney again. I won't compromise my vision. It leads him doing Wednesday. It leads to him doing this movie. I would do wish he would try to do one more Ed Wood style film for adults. I don't know if that's something that interests him anymore. He's gotten very rich and very successful

making things for angsty 14-year-olds. His first eight movies is as good a first eight movie run as I can think of in the history of Hollywood. Certainly there are

people like Kurosawa and Hitchcock who have remarkable careers and their filmographyies way outmatch Tim Burton. But the first eight movies and what they say about what he, what the world means to him and what it's going to mean to us is pretty astounding. And definitely shaped my taste as a movie. Can I ask you a question? Are you counting Nightmare Before Christmas in that? I... Because I'm just wondering what, like...

I think it stops at Sleepy Hollow. Okay. And I would say Sleepy Hollow is the first movie of his that I find to be half successful. Right. You know? So maybe if we include, maybe it's the first eight and a half movies,

if you want to include Nightmare Before Christmas. Well, I mean, I was just, you know, asking whether... I was wondering if it should be eligible for top fives, because Nightmare Before Christmas well I mean I was just you know asking whether I was wondering if it should be eligible for top fives because Nightmare Before Christmas of course is a movie that Tim Burton produced

but did not direct it's directed by Henry Selick the stop motion animation very very common for people to make that mistake to think that he directed it because isn't the

isn't it Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas it is and he's at that point in his career where he's made the Batman movies

you could sell an animated movie and you know as a person who's probably getting ready to buy some jack skellington toys for his daughter like that movie still is yeah super powerful there's like a house in our neighborhood has like a 12 foot jack skellington that is that we visit every christmas my son loves it hello man you? Your son talks to it. Yeah, yeah. He's like, You gotta tell him his name is Jack.

We go see the man. Yeah, we're working on names right now. You know, right now, it's very like, this will, you know, I will name this bear. I will name this man.

So. What do you think of my eight movie theory? When you look at it, it's pretty unimpeachable. You go from Pee Wee to Beetlejuice to Batman to Edward Scissorhands. I mean, it's pretty unimpeachable you go you go from peewee to beetlejuice to batman to edward scissorhands i mean you it's just smoking to batman returns overhated great movie

like great movie i can see why warner brothers balked at it because he was on some shit like he was he decided that he was going to take the character in a different way, made the movie darker. Penguin is insanely difficult to look at. Disgusting. Disgusting to look at. But then there's Michelle Pfeiffer, so. Come on now. Listen. Don't get me started.

We are going to get started. We will be talking about it if we're doing top five. Don't get me started. And then Ed Wood and you end at Mars Attacks. So I think Mars Attacks is a great success. That is maybe a slightly controversial opinion. A little bit. I rewatched it in preparation for this,

and it's a real... Admire all of the ideas, and everyone swing in for the fences. And again, like, incredible cast. Everyone wants to work with Tim Burton. Truly insane cast yeah and some of it is just that the you know the effects and there's like an age even though it's doing like a very specific animation thing that is I don't know it just it's it's a lot by

the end when the ships are zooming around and I gotta watch the war for a long time and I'm like all right okay I get. I have a theory. There's never been a movie that has this many people in it that is totally good. Like movies like It's a Mad, Mad World and all of those movies

like that. There's never been a movie that has, maybe if you do like, what were some of those movies back in the day? Like, what they were?

Towering Inferno. Towering Inferno. Poseidon Adventure. Maybe some of those. I mean, this Mars Attacks Valentine's Day Valentine's

see what I'm saying Valentine's Day they're usually not good they're bad right like there's not a lot of movies that have all of those people in them

that are good because you just you sacrifice a little bit something in the way of the movie when there's a different guy that you know like that that's

popping up every half scene so we talked about disaster movies when we talked about disaster movies when we talked about twisters on the show i didn't include mars attacks because there are aliens in mars attacks but mars attacks is this very clear marriage between schlocky 50s sci-fi right and 70s disaster movies the reason it's a movie that has jack nicholson annette benning pam greer jim brown pierce brosnan sarah jessica parker michael j fox like like you said a crazy cast has Jack Nicholson, Annette Bening, Pam Greer, Jim Brown, Pierce Brosnan, Sarah Jessica Parker,

Michael J. Fox. Like you said, a crazy cast is because it's kind of lovingly lampooning those kinds of movies. I felt like I got the joke when I was 14 and I was like, this is such a good idea for a movie. I mean, it's also impeccably like it looks awesome and you can like, a fan of the animation or not, but it looks so good. And it's so, it looks awesome for, like, two hours. Like, that's a long movie.

And everything, you're just like, wow, I can't believe they spent, like, this much time and money on it. You know, like, MoMA did a Tim Burton exhibit, like, at some point. And, like, Mars Attacks and all of those movies are, like, why? Because there is such a richness to the, to the visual stuff, but like it's long, you know what I mean? Okay.

Some people would say that it ends at Edward. That's like glory run and ends at Edward. The glory run. Maybe I think Mars attacks is kind of just, honestly, I would look at Mars attacks and not sleepy Hollow sort of as the harbinger of things to come. Mars attacks doesn't

quite not work, but it's kind of like, oh, when this guy goes a little bit bigger, things start to crack a little bit. You're definitely right about that. Sleepy Hollow is much more contained. I think it's a little more dull at times than Mars Attacks

which is this kind of like you know perpetual motion machine because you're moving from character to character and then 2001's Planet of the Apes and this is a guy

who's made some bad movies this might be his worst movie. I mean this isn't we talked about it when we did the Apes episode but just a monumental cultural failure.

Genuinely genuinely bad movie. And that triggers two reactions it triggers a return to something more intimate in Big Fish

which is like a good movie Big Fish is solid yeah it's fine it's good and then Charlie and the Chocolate Factory which sets us off

on this course of a sort of you know big reunion with Johnny Depp and then he becomes kind of a commercial

juggernaut for the next 10 years, but also becomes a filmmaker who seems to have like completely lost his identity or his way. We're all at an age where those movies, I think, mean less. I think if you're in your 20s,

you might have a different relationship to that Charlie and the Chocolate Factory or the Alice in Wonderland adaptation. Anybody in this room care about those movies? Anybody in this room, raise your hands. No, Alayah Jackno. Bob, do you have any relationship to the latter half of the Tim Burton catalog?

Not really. No. Okay, great. Well, you three are women of taste. You know something else around that movie that had changed too? I remember, so Johnny had changed, right? Yeah.

So when Tim Burton was casting Johnny earlier on, he was casting this beautiful, talented version of himself, uh, that could like be his avatar in all of these different movies. Well, post pirates, Johnny's the biggest guy.

Like literally he's the biggest guy until Robert Downey Jr. Comes along with Iron Man. And then he becomes the biggest commercial guy. And then Tim and Johnny go for a ride together. They're like, okay, well, it's up. Let's go make some big movies where I don't have to fight with the studio to put you in the movie. So they do this one, and then they come back, and it's Sweeney Todd, and it's, yeah, they just, and they spin in and go make some bread. So I wasn't mad at it, but I had like absolutely zero desire to see charlie in the chocolate factory and when i did go to see it it was too weird for me i don't like these version

of these guys it's not the same battery of pitcher and catcher that i remember so i was just kind of out on it yeah i agree are you guys considering that the latter half like is that the line that you would draw it from charlie in the chocolate factory on i think that's where it starts yeah i think that's i mean i have a pretty big relationship to Corpse Bride, but that would be the last one that like... Yeah. That's because that was on a lot and it was animated

and like I was nine when that came out. And so it was like a little too scary for me and something that I wanted to go back to once I was not so scared of it. But that was probably like the first time I realized like, oh, this is Tim Burton. This is his style.

And then I went backwards from there, which is like not ideal timing, but still. That that's a good movie it's a good animated movie it feels more in the tradition of Nightmare Before Christmas it's the first feature that Laika co-produced and then they went on to produce you know Coraline and Box Trolls Paranorm and like some very celebrated animated movies it's like a fusion between the Laika aesthetic and the Tim Burton aesthetic it's pretty good, but it's kind of sandwiched between

these other movies that are just not so good. Charlie and the Chalk Factory, Alice in Wonderland. Sweeney Todd is an okay adaptation of that musical. I mean, and it's also,

it's doing the Sondheim adaptation in film form is, it's hard. form is hard. It is hard. I think it landed for people, though. I mean, it's not one for me. It's not one for me. But I think it landed for people.

I mean, I feel like Johnny Depp got an Academy Award nomination out of it. Yeah, so I feel like that movie landed for people. It won Best Art Direction that year, nominated for costumes. Colleen Atwood, who did the costumes for Beetlejuice, has done many costumes for Tim Burton. You know, I'm going to assume that from the last 20 years, none of those movies end up making our top fives, right? From 94 on?

No, from 2005 on. Oh, that's right. Because it's 2024. Shit. That's, damn. Life comes at you fast. Time just moved 10 years into the future for you during this pod. That is remarkable.

That's really tough. Yeah, I think so. How many years are you old? Spiritually or in a physical sense? How many years are you old? I'm 44. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah, it's tough. I mean. Yeah, it happens quick. It's brutal. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough. I mean, yeah, it happens quick. It's, it's, it's brutal. Yeah.

42. I was three years old when PB's Big Adventure came out. I probably saw it at five. Imagine that. Yeah. Look at me now. Yeah. Super normal guy.

Very chill guy. Everybody likes hanging out with. Do you know what, do you know which movie that like, I was like super excited for? it's just such a beautiful story to me and i when i when it when it was bad i was like damn it was dumbo bro like when dumbo was like very disappointing movie when dumbo didn't work i was like oh my god man i saw the trailer for dumbo i'm like yo the dumbo story in a way that it is, there's no way you put the story

with Tim and Colin Farrell. Do you remember the cast of this movie? Yeah, Colin Farrell, Michael Keaton, Danny DeVito, Eva Green, Alan Arkin. And it stinks. And it just didn't work. So are you a big circus guy? No. Okay.

Well, I mean, just like carnies. I don't know because you. Carnies. okay well i i mean just like carnies i don't know because you carnies yeah it seems like you have like a relationship to clowns and also to dumbo and so i was i'm just i'm curious about this side of your life you terrifier four but try to get dumbo in the mix terrified like the crazy deranged version of dumbo tusks yeah yeah like you got these big tusks so it there was one time

where I thought I feel like I've told you guys this before I thought that there was a clown situation that I was that only I was seeing I thought I was in a horror movie

have I told you about this before no so just real quick I won't go long winded here so I'm at home one time I have all the time in the world I'm at home one time

Baton Rouge 2002 maybe and I'm watching a show called BET Un all the time in the world I'm at home one time Baton Rouge 2002 maybe and I'm watching a show called BET Uncut are you familiar with this show? I certainly am okay right I know you know

see try to act like you're different a little after midnight material yeah yeah yeah and there's a commercial that comes on and it's a little boy

Alea's heard this story before it's a little boy and he's walking down the street and then you see him and then all of a sudden it cuts to another thing and that little boy is on the back of a milk carton. And then you see a hand grab the milk carton

and it's a crazy evil clown. And the clown drinks the carton and there's blood everywhere. And the clown looks at the camera and he goes, got blood? Like the got milk ads, right? Right. Commercial went off. Nothing at the beginning, nothing at the end. It didn't seem like an advertisement. I legitimately thought that I was the only person that saw it. I'm not even bullshitting you. I'm like, because I was waiting for it to advertise something, but it didn't. So I'm not even bullshitting you. I'm like, because I was waiting for it to advertise something,

but it didn't. So I'm like fucking looking around and I'm telling my friends, I'm like, yo, I'm like my man, bro, did y'all see this commercial with this clown?

And they're like, no, I don't know what you're talking about. Right. And it's 2002, so you can't like get on Twitter. You can't. Yeah.

I'm like, it's the era of the movie, The Ring and all of that stuff. And like, I'm like, bro, I'm telling you, bro, it's a commercial. A clown, he drinks blood. He abducts a little boy, a little boy, and they're like, whatever, whatever. And for about a week, I'm freaking out.

Then I'm at my friend Gino's house. And the commercial comes on again. And I'm like, Gino, Gino, come here. This is a commercial, this is a commercial, this is a commercial. And when the commercial comes on, what had happened was BET uncut would come on at weird times throughout the night and sometimes the commercial would like cut in or out like weirdly right they weren't seeking it they weren't seeking it they weren't getting their ad dollars and it came on and it said live at lsu carn evil it was a fucking haunted house commercial

that the clown was doing the thing. The people from Higher Learning found the commercial and then sent it to me, which further traumatized me. But like since then, I was like, what, six or eight weeks ago that you first saw this? How old were you? No, I was 22. But since then, I've had a weird relationship with fucked up clowns uh-huh

i both am terrified of them but i also can't stop like i can't get enough stop what i can't stop indulging into the fucked up clowns okay like a friend of mine told me how seeking it out a little bit okay a friend of mine told me how fucked up the It movie was. Had to go see it. Saw it twice. Saw the second one. Second one, not a good movie. Freakishly terrifying, though. Like, very scary. So, like... So, what are we talking?

It, Killer Clowns from Outer Space. Oh, my God. That one... One of the scariest movies ever. One of the scariest movies that's ever been made. If you see that movie under the age of 10, it will ruin your life. Like, freaks you out. Like, all the stuff that the clowns do.

What do they do? They throw the pie at you. Yeah. And then at the Like all the stuff that the clowns do, what do they do? They throw the pie at you. Yeah. And then at the end of the movie, the pies come on the people. So I'm- Cotton candy, yeah. Cotton candy.

So when Terrifier first dropped, it's like, I gotta see it. Kalika walked in the room. She's like, what the fuck are you watching? Like, what is going on? I'm like, I gotta see this. I gotta subject myself to it.

Are you not aware of the Terrifier phenomenon? Have we not discussed it on the show? No, but I just googled it when he was talking about it and so it's like a guy wearing a clown costume as a serial killer. That is the description of what happens in the movies. The movies themselves have become

one of the most successful independent film franchises really in the last 10 or 15 years and so the third one is coming out this year and it is eagerly anticipated among a certain stripe of horror fans that Fan is describing. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC

Optimum Points. Visit Superstore.ca to get started. I would say Tim Burton feels very far away from what Terrifier is up to. Oh, yeah, very far. Maybe he was never even close to it in the first place. No, Terrifier is brutal. No, no, no, no. Like, clowns in the circus are where you find yourself in Tim Burton movies. That's right.

You know? He is the clown. We are all the clowns. The Terrifier seems more like real life, which is like, and that's where crazy people put on a costume and then go kill people. That's right. Yeah, like somebody opens the door and the clown is outside of them and you're like, the clown's going to kill you. Stop.

Don't be mean to the clown. Don't do what you're doing. And then they die. I had an idea for a podcast that would never be able to be made because of the clearance issues, but it was going to be called Watching 120 Minutes. And we would just sit and watch an episode of 120 Minutes, the alternative music program on MTV. There is a spinoff show called Watching BET Uncut where we could just do the same. Just get an episode from 1997 of BET Uncut and just watch it and talk about what was happening and why we're seeing what we're seeing.

Amanda, have you ever saw it? I don't think so. Okay. I literally would pay. Like, based upon Amanda's reaction to the Anthony Edwards send the video phenomenon, I would literally pay for Amanda. And I don't want you to do it. I mean, it's like hours and hours and hours of content. It's a certain kind of music video. A certain type of music video.

I mean, I can imagine I was around, you know? Like, I was more tuned into TRL at that moment. Right. Like, listen. The Tip Drill music video, have you ever heard of it before? No, I don't think so. Wow. Okay.

No, no, no, no. Okay. Not here. Don't look up the Tip Drill music video, Amanda. Okay? All right. Just, you know, I don't want your opinion of Nelly to change. Okay?

Oh, okay. Right. So don't look up the Tip another time when you're away. Just come back and report to me on what you think about the Tip Drill music video. I'll let you know. How'd it work? Would you guys like to talk about Tim Burton? Yes, please.

I apologize to the listeners of The Big Picture. I apologize. No apology necessary. This is just part of the cultural spelunking that we do here on the pod. Van, do you want to go first? Sure. Number five?

Ed Wood. Okay. I have Ed Wood number five. It is a great movie, but a movie that I'm the least intimately connected to. Why would you say that? Because his departure in Ed Wood, Ed Wood was the first movie that didn't, it felt like, it didn't feel like the Tim Burton that I was used to.

I liked the movie. Don't get me wrong. I like Ed Wood. But I'm like, oh, okay, this movie is a little bit stripped. It's a biopic. It really, more than anything, got me interested in Ed Wood and that type of filmmaking, to be honest with you. Beale Juice is actually four. Okay. Okay.

Okay. And at this particular time, we're just talking about gradations of great. Yeah. So from four to one, you're like, we're in the hot zone here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Edward Scissorhands is a movie I have a deep, deep, deep connection to. I've seen it so many times i felt so close to the character so close to winona rider in the movie like i was very very like as a kid looking at edward scissorhands and one of the first movies that made me like emote like you care about this thing in like in a in a real wayeewee's big adventure is two. It's probably the Tim Burton movie that I've seen the most.

Okay. Um, and it's probably the one that's most ubiquitous for me in terms of like being its place and culture in my house and stuff. Uh, everyone loved it. Mother, father,

sister, me, everybody. Parents like Peewee. My, my, my daddy used to look at Peewee and just laugh and laugh and laugh peewee is in that category

it's funny that you say that you always get me thinking about my childhood whenever we podcast peewee is one of those things very much like the Simpsons that I distinctly remember my dad being like this is stupid and feeling like

shut up man like I like this just let me like this. Is it okay that I like this? So it's funny that your parents enjoyed it. My dad used to be like, hey, what Pee-wee got going on?

Like, what, oh, I like, I like that Pee-wee. And like, that's how he was. I like Pee-wee, man. Pee-wee dancing, all kinds of stuff.

I hope Pee-wee get his bite back. And the number one, obviously you guys could have figured this out. Number one is Batman. Okay. Like, what Batman meant, like when the movie came out, the hysteria, the lines around the block,

seeing it the way that it was, what the superhero movie could become. Remember, Donner's Superman is probably like 11 years, 10 years removed. What the superhero movie could be, it can be done artfully. It can be done seriously. It can be done in a sinister way. It can have the cool cultural moment with the soundtrack.

You can have the impossibly beautiful Kim Brasinger. It was just a complete moment in my childhood and still to me represents a pinnacle of the interpretation of a character. Obviously, they were building on a lot. Frank Miller had taken Batman in a little bit of a darker place. You had all kinds of stuff to build on,

but to me, it was the peak of Tim Burton's powers and his ability to put his artistic spin on something that already existed. I was reading about Batman, which is also on my list. Mine too, yeah, of course. That was interesting, which is that Tim existed. I was reading about Batman, which is also on my list. Mine too. Yeah, of course. That was interesting, which is that Tim Burton said when he was a kid,

he was not a reader of comic books because he felt like he had dyslexia or something dyslexic about his ability to read the panels in the right order. But he said he was always fascinated by the imagery of Batman and the Joker and that the killing joke was the first time he read a comic book where he didn't have the inability to understand the storytelling style and that made me wonder if that's a comic book movie that is maybe more appealing to you because it doesn't have some of the trappings of like you got to know about this and you got to know about this to kind of get on board with some of the storytelling yeah of course and I mean I think some of it is also, it is, well,

actually, Batman Returns is higher in my ranking than Batman, but only because of Michael Keaton and Michelle Pfeiffer, you know, which when I rewatched it,

I just fast forwarded for them just having some, you know what? What about Christopher Walken? I enjoy him in that movie. Listen, everybody's very good in it,

but Batman, as Van said, is like, here here we go it's like setting the stage coming to the world and it is very very kind of primal and this person is working out some things and you haven't seen his parents die like 45 times you know and there's this guy who's jack nicholson and you're like oh okay so if this is what comics are, I get it. And I don't have to, you know, read 40 other things to understand it. Look at, I mean, say with your chest to Van, you know, that's really, that's his situation. Joker, overall woman.

Like, everything is given to you and you get why this guy goes crazy. Why he becomes a clown prince of crime, why he's so dangerous. And you understand Bruce's demented trauma as well. Even down to like Robert Wool playing the everyman that is like nothing compared to Bruce Wayne. But it's really a perfect movie. What's your top five? It's not very original. It's the first five movies.

And I'm just going to tell you. No, not in order. But I mean, that's, you know, and I like did do a lot of rewatching. I was like, oh, am I going to throw like big eyes in here? And I was like, you know what? I'm not. Because once again, it's Amy Adams.

Interesting thing about Tim Burton's career, he works with a lot of Amanda's black licorice actors over time such as Amy Adams Winona goes back and forth for me

she's sort of in the listen reality bites and Little Women are two of the most important things happen even though she's like arguably the worst part of Little Women

oh it's you know what it is it's like a Natalie Portman thing who also shows up this is like like dragged into a ditch situation here with you. We're not black. When you say black licorice, you mean you don't like Winona Ryder?

Yeah, I'm just like, I don't know. I like her a lot. I don't know if I think she's good at acting, which is also true of Natalie Portman. Yeah, I don't know whether I think she's good at acting. Okay. This is a take i like this and johnny johnny depp is another one where you don't think johnny depp could act well he could at the

beginning but now i'm just like you're just walking i just don't respond to it did you see jean de berry no i didn't yeah i haven't seen it either you know it's just like a lot of people where I'm like, are we sure? Who is a good actor? And then there are like eight of his movies. I think that Michael Keaton's pretty good. Oh yeah,

that's good. Yeah, so you know, there's an exception to the rule. and Johnny Depp all have something in common,

which is that they're like beautiful people who are bound by their eccentricities and that their eccentricities is what makes them special. Yeah. But I do also think like Michael Keaton can still do the, I'm speaking like a normal human being when he needs to.

And Winona Ryder, I'm just like, I she's, she's, she's a different experience than all of us. I think in the last 20 years, it frequently feels as though she has just been struck by lightning. Yes.

But I don't think that's true for the first 25 years of her career she's distinctly a different actress now yes but i think that she just fell into roles before yeah like you've seen heathers and stuff like that she's amazing in heathers yeah heathers little women reality bites really important but like little women she's being out of innocenceed Age of Innocence Beetlejuice Age of Innocence is a really interesting one she's really good now when the movie

isn't that strong they're using Scorsese's using like her weirdness in the right way in Age of Innocence I think I hear maybe the baby's coming

maybe we better get you to a hospital quickly that's one thing we didn't talk about Beetlejuice Beetlejuice which was like baby Beetlejuice was reallyjuice which was like baby Beetlejuice

was really good disgusting and like really really spotted and I was like I was meant to ask you about that I was like this is accurate

to my experience so that was good anyway so it's the first five wow you just took out Winona god damn it I didn't take her out I just

I'm like you know I'd like to take her out sure peak Winona for me you know I looked at I'd like to take her out. Sure. Peak Winona for me is going to, you know, I looked at Winona,

like remember the stupid Adam Sandler movie, what was it called? Mr. Deeds. Mr. Deeds. See, I had that right at my fingertips.

Winona Ryder and Mr. Deeds, I was like, come on, man. This is top-flight vitamin D milk. and definitely has a presence. This is great.

But when she's becoming a novelist at the end of Little Women, you're like, okay. You don't like Girl Interrupted. I mean, obviously Angelina Jolie acted circles around her in Girl Interrupted. I mean, this is what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. There are places where she shines. That movie was made after the lightning struck.

Right. And then there are places where it's 94. movie was made after the lightning struck. Right. And then there are places where it's 94. It's the same era as Reality Bites. Don't interrupt it. It's a little bit. Reality Bites is,

she's perfect, but she's also playing someone who, you know, is, it's actually a genius. I think about the gas card thing all the time.

It's a big move. But it really, listen. Very Amanda coded. Yeah. We got dad's gas card you gotta use what you have you know um anyway my dear my top so five peewee just yeah i don't know i mean this is as you said all choosing between classics for batman three batman returns listen michael

keaton and mich Michelle Fiverr was you know you know when you're young and you don't know everything but you start picking up on this person like something's going on yeah something's happening

you know yeah to Edward Scissorhands which is I agree like a beautiful and it's like the most clearly

related to Tim Burton's like autobiography basically like real life but also his autobiography turns into real life but also his autobiography turns into this like fantastical

you know so much of that movie's in daylight as well and so like they're brightly colored and he's carving everything so beautiful

pastel houses and the topiary it's my favorite but number one is Beetlejuice because Beetlejuice

is like pretty core I didn't put Edward Scissorhands on my list. They did just rewatch it. It's great. I mean, it's kind of like, I feel similar. The first seven movies, they all are kind of like moving up and down for me over time. But I already spoke about Mars Attacks.

That's number five. I think it's a cool big swing. You know, it might be signaling the beginning of the end as you were indicating. And I think that that's fair. You think Mars Attacks is a better movie than Edward Scissororhands it's a movie i like more i got you you know and that's just that's just the way the way personal taste you know like and i and when you say like edward scissorhands meant a lot to me and i know that's true for a lot of people where it like basically made them feel seen because yeah the idea of the outcast is rendered so well in that movie. Also, I think Johnny Depp

and Winona Ryder are perfectly cast in that movie. You know who really popped when I watched it was Kathy Baker. She's really, really good in that movie.

So that's a fun movie but Mars Attacks Eyes is just personal to me. I like it. Batman at four. Ed Wood at three. Yeah. You know.

I mean, it's you. Yeah, sure. And History of Hollywood and I don't appreciate the Martin Landau Oscar win over Samuel L. Jackson

but that's something that happened and we're all coping with that Sam's coping with it for sure I'm not

coping may not be the word fucking salty I mean yeah yeah understandable but he's now the age that landau was yeah so you know maybe there's an oscar around the corner for him right uh number two is beetlejuice which is a perfect five-star classic and number one is pb's big adventure

which is a perfect five-star classic right yeah and very important to you there's never been a movie like pb's big adventure and also whenever there are movies like pb's big adventure which is essentially the comportment of a stand-up comic persona into a movie it is almost never good it is so hard to transform what paul rubens was doing on stage into a movie format and the fact that movie works as well as it does is incredible and you know it's incredible because when they tried to make a sequel, much like Beetlejuice Beetlejuice 30 years later, it didn't work at all. What was the sequel? It was a Netflix movie like four or five years ago.

Oh, I didn't see it. Yeah. If Pee-wee's Big Adventure came out like 2017, Paul Reumers would be nominated for an Academy Award. Because the Academy has changed? Because I think that the movie itself, first of all,

because he became Pee-wee, he never really got the credit that he deserved for the character of Pee-wee. Because in the 80s, I didn't really know his name until maybe like 92, 93. Probably until after he got busted

in the theater doing whatever he was doing. Watching BET Uncut. Watching BET Uncut, exactly. And remember the whole MTV Music Awards things? We had a classic childhood. It was full of classics. I agree. Okay, it wasn't TikTok and stuff.

It was classic moment after classic moment. I believe this is called Old Man Van. It is. That might be the same MTV Music Awards with two live crew. It's classic moment after classic shit. But I'm just saying. It's just like a fantastic performance. He's funny.

He's vulnerable. He's just like a fantastic performance. He's funny. He's vulnerable. He's like, sometimes he's scary. Remember when he was briefing people on his bike? He's just, he's like, he's hysterical. And the performance is underrated. I don't think people could appreciate it back then. Do you think men should go to prison for cranking it in a movie theater? Leia says yes.

It was an adult theater, right? Well, yeah. I mean, honestly, like, listen, I don't know the rules in Florida. What are the rules of entry? But, you know. Let your freak flag fly.

Come on. He was wrongfully accused. I personally think that I put that one on the cops because that happened to What's-His-Face 2 from American Pie. think that I put that one on the cops because that happened to what's his face too from American Pie like it

I put that one Shannon Elizabeth no no who's the the dad the guy who Eugene Levy

no not Eugene Levy that wasn't him that's not from American Pie the other guy got caught we did it at TMZ oh yeah the fucking dude y'all know who I'm talking about

yes of course from Best in Shit Fred Willard yeah yeah I know you remember when may he rest in peace but then the dramatic reading Oh, yeah, yeah. The fucking dude. Y'all know who I'm talking about. Yes, of course. From Best in Shit. Fred Willard. Yeah. Yeah. I know you remember when May He Rest in Peace, but then the dramatic reading

of the arrest incidents is like the hardest that I've ever laughed. But I feel like that's entrapment. Not entrapment, but I feel like that's... Uh-huh. Keep going.

That's like low-hanging fruit. Why would you... Low-hanging indeed. Exactly. Why would you go there to try to get that? Like, you gonna find that. Like, you just trying to

hate on Pee-wee, man. They probably felt like they had one too. They should have locked up Jack Nicholson in The Departed when he went in there. Remember that? He should have been locked up.

He was doing the same thing. That's right. That's how they could have busted him. He didn't have to be an informant. I mean, I just, it does seem like there's like a rules of engagement situation.

You know? I agree. Just me. Yeah. Pee-wee is a great film. It rubens was a good actor too but he i think he was you know codified clearly as peewee for the rest of his career tim burton i got love for him you know all these years later no matter how many dark shadows or charlie and chalk factories he makes i'm still gonna have a place in my heart he helped me understand movies more clearly as a young kid.

So it's pretty important. $60 million. Told you this before. Tim Burton with $50 to $60 million. Perfect. He just needs to be limited. Batman was probably bigger than that. He just needs to be limited.

Everybody needs creative restraints it's true but particularly someone that has such a distinct visual style because sometimes you lose the coherence of the story like when you have that like alice in wonderland is it's obviously you have to have a very it's a very visual movie right but that movie is really about a wacky zany story where you really have to kind of get into it and you can lose a little bit of what the movie is if you are paying too much attention to making it look bizarre and stuff right and sometimes he falls under under the weight of the aesthetic of the world that he's trying to.

Yeah, yeah. He's just like in the workshop for a little too long. Yeah. Yeah. But like when he, when it's simpler, like even Beetlejuice,

Beetlejuice. Good movie. Good. I would, you say six, I would say if we can do.5s, I would say 6.5 or seven

just because I had so much fun. Okay. But six is probably very solid. But that movie could have been an eight. It could have been a nine. It could have been a little bit faster pace. It could have been a three.

So that's, I come out of it with relief. Fair enough. So only had two Academy Award nominations, Burton, both for animated films. What do you think that says about the Academy? Snobs.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was your, to your point about if PB were were 2017 to get an oscar nomination but it wouldn't because they don't acknowledge comedy they don't acknowledge weirdness yeah goth boys genre i feel like i guess they're getting better but i feel like they definitely didn't end and maybe i'm wrong but i feel like i just feel like performances

like that are more appreciated now than they used to be. I mean, that's true, because it used to just be what like what's the biopic of the of the week. Right. And they kind of still do that. But it seems like now you get the Academy like the momentum behind a performance and everybody being captivated with it goes a little bit further than it used to. Are you still in on the Oscars? What do you expect me to say? Just be honest. Yeah, I'm in on the Oscars.

Okay. Do you have a pick for best picture? I don't. I saw you guys making, I saw you guys. Wild predictions based on nothing I have a little work to do because I got buried

under the content of this year of this summer with like everything we were doing on the Ringiverse you guys can go check us out

so I have a little work to do catching up but like early on is Dune 2 is going to clean up you guys tell me what you think

it's definitely going to be nominated in a lot of categories but you don't think it's going to win up? You guys tell me what you think. It's definitely going to be nominated in a lot of categories. But you don't think it's going to win anything? I mean, we don't know. You know, because historically they don't want to do the genre stuff. Or if they do, they do it for the third in a trilogy. See Return of the King, right?

That's a movie that I've seen. I don't know about you. I saw it. They got Hobbits in it are the Hobbits in it you guys shouldn't be allowed to talk about this stuff just gotta put that out there

people that have facilitated an environment in which you get to do that so since there is like Dune 3 is kind of

in the ether maybe they won't put it up this time you know I'm looking forward to your take on it Nora that's the one I saw you guys talking about I haven't seen it up this time, you know? I'm looking forward to your take on Enora. That's the one I saw you guys talking about.

I haven't seen it. Yeah. It's wonderful. You guys love it. It's kind of the, it's kind of the BET uncut for Russian oligarchs. Oh.

Yeah. See, you should write shit like that. You should write little takes like that. Like, that would get us out. Like,

what is this movie? This movie is the bet dash like a dash sean fantasy the ringer this movie is the bet uncut for russian oligarchs i'll definitely go see it what what would that do for us if i did that more regularly for us when i said us i meant the us because maybe we want to see this movie the employees of the ringer no as in black americans oh i see maybe we want to go this movie. The Employees of the Ringer? No, as in Black Americans. Oh, I see. Maybe we want to go see that movie,

but no one's like, it's not really being marketed towards us. Okay. But this is the BET uncut for Russian oligarchs. So think the villain in John Wick plus BET uncut. Think Eastern Promises plus BET uncut. Now, unfortunately. I think that's totally accurate. Yeah, that's not it. Okay. BET uncut think Eastern Promises plus BET now unfortunately I think that's totally accurate yeah that's not it

okay um you gotta sprinkle in a dash of Pretty Woman what the fuck is the movie about yeah yeah think about it

it's about a stripper oh who then daddy uh yeah who meets a

the son of a Russian oligarch. And then things unfold from there. Oh, yeah. I'm in. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay, well, hopefully you see that film. The Fan, thank you very much.

Where can we hear you and see you? The Ringiverse, higher learning, lots of fun. Churning out the content and having a great time here at The Ring. Amanda, where can we find you and see you the ringer verse uh higher learning lots of fun churning out the content and having a great time here at the ring amanda where can we find you here yep every day until i'm not anymore and also in prison for your winona rider take right the nearest maximum security prison she just like she turns laurie down she's like christian bale is there at the fence just being like marry me I love you and she's like no no

I need to become the great American novelist like sure. Okay. Great. Hey thanks to Alea Zanaris who is abandoning

the big picture for all of her work. Thanks to Jack Sanders. Thanks to our producer Bobby Wagner for his work on this episode. Next week

Chris Ryan and I return to build a new subgenre on this show that subgenre is called garbage revenge aka trash justice and we'll be talking about the new sonye film rebel ridge we'll see you then Thank you.