The Big Picture - 'Booksmart' Bonanza and the Best High School Movies, With Olivia Wilde, Beanie Feldstein, and More | The Big Picture

Episode Date: May 21, 2019

We preview ‘Booksmart,’ Olivia Wilde’s directorial debut out this weekend, and the latest in a long tradition of what we call “high school movies"—of which we share our top five lists (1:10). Then (recorded previously at SXSW), Sean is joined by Olivia Wilde, Beanie Feldstein, Kaitlyn Dever, Katie Silberman, and Billie Lourd to talk about making ‘Booksmart’ and what it takes to make a successful high school comedy in 2019 (49:30). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Olivia Wilde, Beanie Feldstein, Kaitlyn Dever, Billie Lourd, Katie Silberman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelley, and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. Before you get to the show, make sure you check out theringer.com for our extensive NBA playoff coverage leading up to the NBA Finals. Also, look out for our 2019 NBA Draft Guide, which now features 50 of Kevin O'Connor's scouting reports. The Draft Guide has a first-round mock draft, big board rankings from our draft experts like Jonathan Charks and Danny Chow, and much more to come leading up to the draft itself on June 20th. Once again, check out The Ringer's 2019 NBA Draft Guide and all of our NBA coverage over on TheRinger.com. I'm Sean Fennessy. And I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about high school, I think.

We're here today, Amanda, to talk about high school in part because the movie Booksmart is coming out on Friday, a movie that we love. In the back half of this show, I have a conversation with five women who made Booksmart. Among them, Olivia Wilde, Caitlin Dever, Beanie Feldstein, Billy Lord, and the co-screenwriter Katie Silberman. It's a very fun conversation. Before we get to that, Amanda and I are going to talk about our favorite high school movies, what makes a great high school movie, and a little bit to start about Booksmart and why it worked so well. We both saw the movie at South by Southwest in March. I think we both walked out with big dumb smiles on our faces.

It's very difficult to make a teen high school comedy effective. And this one really works. So Caitlin and Beanie are the stars of this movie. They are, you know, we'll loosely associate them as the Jonah Hill and Michael Cera of Superbad kind of formulation. Yeah, there are super bad shades in the premise of this movie. And obviously also Beanie Feldstein is the sister of Jonah Hill. So it's like, I walked out and I was like, I want to resist the super bad comparison because I want Beanie to shine on her own. And I think she can just because the performance is so great. And this movie is, you know, it's a high school movie. It's an all-in-one-night movie, but

the super bad comparison is right there, but also it is more. It is its own thing. So we don't have to feel anxiety about comparing the two. Beanie's going to get her time in the sun. Yeah, I think sometimes that sort of comparison can detract from the accomplishment of a movie like Booksmart. In this case, I think it's nice. It's kind of a fitting double feature. Seeing them together would be a lot of fun. What did you make of them?

I mean, obviously you loved Beanie in Lady Bird. And Caitlin Dever for Justified Fans is a wonderful actress. It's bizarre that she's like 25 years old now. She was well known to me as like the 13-year-old moonshine slinging drug dealing, I don't know, scamp that Raylan Gibbons had to keep his eye on. They play two teenagers in Los Angeles, California on the last day of high school. And they are straight A students. Yes. They're rule followers. Rule followers. You are a rule follower. Yeah. This is, I saw shades of young Amanda in this one because they basically, they make it to the last

day of high school and they find out that all the people who were having fun in high school are still going on to lead normal lives and that they were basically sold a lie. Not just normal, but highly accomplished. Yes. You know, the dirtbag smoking cigarettes in the bathroom are also going to Harvard or going straight to work for Google. Yeah. And the Beanie Feldstein character has a little bit of Tracy Flick in her, especially in the

beginning and just kind of loses her mind and sets out to rectify everything that they have done wrong in the course of one night. And God bless. It was close to home for me personally, and probably for a lot of people. Yeah. I don't know if I was necessarily a rule follower, but I tried. I tried hard in school. And I think anybody who tries hard will recognize that the effort to sort of like break the chains of consistency can sometimes be challenging. And these two characters have a real challenge. So basically what you get is this in one night only kind of experience,

which is always a very fun execution for a movie. It's sort of the after hours of high school. I feel like it's a little bit darker than Superbad. It's a little bit more antic. It gets a little weird at times in a way that it was fun, I found. Yes, it's weird, but it's never particularly dangerous. I think these girls are protected. They're never in situations where they lack agency.

They're still very in control. It's a feel-good movie, even as they're learning things about themselves and how to break the rules, which is a tricky line to walk. And I really admired it. I never, you never feel bad for them. You never feel like, oh, God, I mean, you wish certain scenes would go better. There's a certain bathroom scene in particular that I'm thinking of without spoiling it. But they're never taken advantage of. They're really in control the whole time, which I think is such a neat trick of this

movie. And I really admire the screenwriting and also Olivia Wilde directing it because they're not losers. They're not the girls who have to meet some other standard to fit in in high school or change who they are at all. And they never feel bad about themselves or are down on themselves. They're just kind of like, oh, we should go have fun too. And I think that is, it's not that it's empowering.

It's just, it is like a slightly different, more confident version of a young woman than you often see in teen movies. And I think that's cool. Yeah, Manuela Lazich reviewed the movie for TheRinger.com. And in her review, she noted that, you know,

the movie is oriented around arriving at a big party. They're sort of, that's the third, the third act. And when they get to the big party, this isn't really spoiling anything. They do pretty well socially. You know, people like them. They're actually quite fun and quite interesting and charismatic. And if only they had spent some time trying to do that, they might've had a much more fun time in high school. It's not, you're right that them not being losers is actually an effective way to tell their story. Yeah. And I think also it's not that they didn't have fun in high school and it's never really degrading what they accomplished in high school or their friendship at all.

It's almost just kind of like they're overachievers. And so there's one more thing that they need to achieve before high school is over. And that really does make a difference in terms of the way that they're portrayed and their social confidence and just the way they fit in the fabric of high school. It is a slightly different picture of high school than I think a lot of the movies we're going to talk about on our list. Everyone is slightly more equal. There aren't really any outcasts in this particular movie that I can remember it reminded me a little bit of 22 Jump Street which is about college but also had a sort of like a progressive bent to the hierarchy of high school and that in that like the jock and the nerd and you know the

gay guy and the girl who was really an art were all on the same page they all sort of coexisted in this ecosystem it was not this uh lord of Flies-esque experience that you might find in a movie like The Breakfast Club, where it's sort of like, this person is this archetype, and you wouldn't imagine that they could ever speak to one another. It's a level playing field. Yes. So one of the fun things about the movie is that you basically get to go through stages of experience. You meet new characters as they are making an effort to get to this party. So there's a big cast of characters here. As with all good high school ensemble comedies, there are a lot of key players, perhaps none bigger than Billie Lourd. For those of you who are not familiar with Billie Lourd, she is the daughter of Carrie Fisher and high-powered

super agent Brian Lourd. And she's a bit of a kook. She's quite a charismatic, weird person. And she's got a very funny role as, I don't know, how would you describe her? Like the Donnie from The Big Lebowski? I mean, again, this is when the super bad thing comes up because she is the McFly. She is McLovin. McLovin, sorry, McLovin.

If only she were the McFly. I know, it's different. All the high school movies coming together. Yes, she is the free spirit. She is the one who is not even aware of social conventions much less like above them and it's pretty remarkable she's really fun yeah she's quite a character she sort of uh works in tandem with an actor named skylar gisando who i have never seen before who plays kind of the i don't, also a sort of try hard beta male best friend

looking for his own identity, looking for love, looking for friendship. What did you make of Skyler? He kind of seemed like out of an 80s movie a little. This movie is very aware of all of the films that went before it. Yeah.

And there are references and bringing in the different tropes and turning them on that. And that he kind of seemed like this sad, not this sad, but the sidekick from a John Hughes movie. Yeah. And there's a series of other young actors

and actresses, Diana Silvers and Molly Gordon and a handful of other people. And then because it's a studio comedy in 2019, there has to be a very talented gifted adults in very small supporting roles. Among them, Olivia Wilde's fiance, Jason Sudeikis, who, you know, I just want to point out once again, at the premiere of this movie at South by Southwest, the entire cast came on stage. And Jason Sudeikis came out looking like Jerry Garcia's son. He was wearing a tie-dye shirt.

He had long hair. He had a beard. I believe it was a tie-dye cashmere shirt. I read that on GQ later. Tie-dye cashmere? Which is like, what a time for men's fashion. But anyway. He looked remarkable.

It was a look that I could never even attempt to try. I think that's for the best. It is for the best. But he had a blissful state on his face. He seemed very happy. Also among that crew, Lisa Kudrow and Will Forte as Caitlin Deaver's parents. Jessica Williams as their sort of cool teacher. Sort of, but again, it turns the idea of a cool teacher on its head. A bit complicated. Mike O'Brien in a role that I will not spoil,

who was very funny in the movie, SNL writer and former cast member. I want to also talk a little bit about Katie Silverman because she's the co-writer of this movie. In conversation that I've had with a handful of people who worked on this movie, it's evident that there had been a couple of drafts of the story when Katie got her hands on the script and started to rewrite. She added character. She added shape. She added a dynamic. What do you make of Katieie silverman you're interested in her work yeah i'm a big fan i think we were just talking uh last week about isn't it romantic which is a movie that i caught up on and i believe katie silverman played a similar role on that movie she's a fixer yes and i'm a huge fan of set it up which she wrote of her own she is really savvy

and what i like is that she kind of understands these genres and tropes of the types of movies that we grew up with and she's obviously um I think she's a bit younger than me but of a similar generation and knows how to update them and turn things on their head and is kind of evolving this type of modern young female character in a movie that has a lot of confidence and knows what she wants, but that's incidental to the process as opposed to being the main subject of the movie itself, which is just an exciting thing to watch because that's not always been the case. But she's funny and also understands just how to make a movie that you want to watch this movie's so watchable and has so many of those like memorable moments we won't spoil them in this particular

movie but there is a let's just say there's like a stop motion uh scene that i think olivia wild has talked a lot about that that was kind of her idea and then katie silberman just kind of turned it into something quite memorable so i'm watching her career it seems like she kind of her idea. And then Katie Silberman just kind of turned it into something quite memorable. So I'm watching her career. It seems like she kind of knows what is going on for young female audiences, at least. And I think, you know, that moment that you mentioned and a couple of other moments, there's a couple of visual moments that are sort of, they're very dynamic. They're like, forgive this, but like Scorsese-esque, just the way that Olivia Wilde shoots scenes, the way that she is drawing attention to the fact, the fact that they're taking this genre as seriously as they are and saying that it demands the same conventions that a historical boxing drama deserves, I thought actually was very effective and fun and helped tell the story better. And, you know, for lack of a better phrase, movies about women don't often get to do this stuff. Not at all. how women don't often get to do this stuff. You know, they're not allowed to, or the idea of like a stop motion sequence

in the middle of a movie like this is, it's not verboten, but like there's an expectation that it has to be a little bit sunnier, a little bit more candy, a little bit, you know, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it was cool to see someone bust up the idea

of what a female-led, you know, high school comedy could be. Yes, I have a long running bit on the rewatchables about how soundtracks for movies targeted at women are horrible. They are off. They just sound like a deodorant commercial. And they really are always kind of the most anodyne. Not even the good top 40 song, because like, please respect top 40 in my presence.

But like the garbage stuff that is filler on the radio gets just filled into these movies because they either, I think it's a little bit, they won't spend money, but also they just don't think that having cool music and like the references and all of the things that you normally affiliate with a boy movie matter to female audiences. And this movie has a great soundtrack, which I think is like a telling, an indicator of the way they are approaching this movie. Yeah. The soundtracks in these movies sometimes feel market tested, but not human tested. In this case, when I spoke to Olivia, she said that they were just blasting, basically blasting rap the whole time they were shooting the movie.

The set was like, it's funny, it was before the sort of Lizzo blow up of 2019. And now Lizzo is a significantly more well-known person, though maybe slightly more controversial. We won't talk about that check out check out music podcast if you want to hear about that but uh you know she was like we just played Lizzo like the whole time it's like Lizzo Missy Elliott run the jewels that was just the soundtrack of the shoot and that is the soundtrack of the movie and it gives it a kind of propulsive antic energy that really works um it's an interesting time for this movie to come out for Annapurna because Annapurna, of course, is this, you know, mini studio launched by Megan Ellison, Larry Ellison's daughter. And it has been through a fascinating five or six years. I think Annapurna has made

maybe three or four of the very best movies of the decade and also has been ensnared in this psychodrama about its failure to create financial successes. And it has gone through a series of management changes over the course of the last six to 12 months. A lot of the people who worked on Booksmart no longer work there, which is a fascinating and tricky thing. I do know just from talking to people in the industry that they're like, we really just want Booksmart to work.

Annapurna really wants it to work, but also just people in the industry want it to work because they want to be able to make movies like this because they like movies like this. And so there is this tension. There's this anxiety about like, can you put a movie like this on 2,500 screens on a Friday and get everybody to go see it? We just had this conversation about Longshot. This is a slightly different version because it's for teenagers. It's not about politics. It's not about some woke Brooklyn journalist trying to hook up with Charlize Theron. It's about 17-year-olds. That's true.

So there should be a fairly broad audience. It's got that great soundtrack you talked about. It's got appealing young stars. I don't know if these kinds of movies can work. I feel like we're always talking about this. I'm incredibly nervous. It's opening on the Friday of Memorial Day weekend against Aladdin yep

which is tough tune into the big picture later this week Amanda and I will be reviewing Aladdin we get to see it together that's gonna be the

a funny thing there should be cameras on us watching it but anyway yeah and the thing about it going against Aladdin is yes this is a movie

for a teenager but I think this is a movie for people our age and people slightly older taking teenagers. I don't, I don't know how many 15 year olds are like, yeah, what I gotta do is I gotta get someone to take me to, to this, to book smart because I don't think they think about going to movies that way. They just watch them on Netflix. So it is kind of, you need the slightly older generation making it cool and taking people there. And I don't know whether we alone, our generation has that kind of power at this point. I don't think we do. With Longshot, we didn't, even though we very much wanted it to succeed. And I think kind of the parent-kid movie that weekend is going to be Aladdin. That's what those movies are for.

So I'm nervous. I would love for this to succeed. I saw the trailer again a few weeks ago. I was just like, this movie's amazing. It's dynamite. It's really so good. And I hope that people make an effort. We've got some distance now from Endgame and Detective Pikachu and John Wick 3. So there's a little bit of an opening here before we get into Godzilla and everything else happening towards the end of this month. We'll see. I mean, we shouldn't overreact to the results of anything like this. I think no matter what happens, this movie is inevitably

going to be a kind of, if not a cult classic, like a much beloved movie by the people who actually get a chance to see it. It does feel like we're in a cycle now, though, where this keeps happening with movies like this. We're like, did you see that? That was so good. Oh, I didn't see it. Maybe I'll see it on a plane. Like that is just kind of the conventional conversation around these kinds of movies. So we love Booksmart. Let's talk about high school movies a little bit. Let's sort of blend these two categories together. You're going to give me your top five. I'm going to give you

my top five, but let's talk first just about what makes these movies good because it's probably changed a lot over the years. We're mostly going to focus on, I think, movies from the last 30 to 40 years. If you want to hear us talk about Frederick Wiseman's High School, the 1962 documentary about life in a high school in the middle of the country, go to a different podcast. That's a good film. I encourage you to watch it. That's not the kind of high school movie that we're talking about here. We're talking about mostly comedies or satires. Very rarely dramas, though you may have some dramas on your list.

Occasionally the horror movie. Occasional horror movie is often a good setting. I think the amount of time that lapses in a movie like this is important. In Booksmart, it's one day. In Days Unconfused, it's basically one night. I don't know. What else is vital to you in a high school movie? What are you looking for?

Well, it needs to... I think successful movies really have a sense of the era. They are of a time whether... And there is a nostalgia element to it because they need to appeal to actual teens who are like, oh, this is cool. And then they need to appeal to adults who are remembering a fonder time and remembering what it was like to be in high school and or what they wish high school that would be like.

And so references and music and the clothes and like you have to create a certain specificity of an era. Yeah, and sometimes in Dazed and Confused, it's the 70s and I instantly connected to that even though I was not alive in the 70s. And sometimes it's modern day. Like Superbad is just a modern day execution that didn't seem that far from my high school experience, even though it was released probably eight or nine years after I graduated from high school.

So you're right. That's an interesting, important thing. I feel like maybe the most important thing is the cast. You got to get the right people. We were just having an interesting conversation about a certain Game of Thrones cast member who was cast as a young man. He's grown up over the years. And the show perhaps struggled in its execution of the final episode because,

as you said, this young person maybe not as good at acting as we wanted him to be when he was 12. Well, maybe he was right for the 12 year old part and right not right for the much older part um and that's your point of these movies happen with a contained period within a contained period of time yes that's you need you need to cast the person for the moment as opposed to 10 years down the the line but yeah a cast need charisma. You need people who are relatable, but still have a certain magic that you would want to spend time with them. They can't be typical high schoolers because typical high schoolers, we were all very sad.

No shots to high schoolers. If you're listening to this, you have special qualities, but you know. Yeah, they need to be like 21, 23, a little older too. They need to be a little bit more seasoned, but be able to look like they could do high school. I tend to grade the directors of movies like this on their ability to spot and discover talent. You know, John Hughes famously brilliant at sort of discovering people or platforming people. Richard Linklater has done it over and over again.

He keeps finding people in Days of Confused and Everybody Wants Some. And all of these movies are like, who is that? And then all of a sudden they're the most charismatic person you've ever seen. I guess there's a couple of other things. In some ways, maybe the setting and the conflict of the story matters. But for the most part, it's more just like put six cool young 17-year-olds

in a room and hopefully good stuff happens. I feel like that is ultimately, if it's a horror movie, if it's a comedy, if it's a drama, you just need a dynamism among an ensemble, right? Yeah, I think so. Because the actual plot or conflict is pretty much going to be like high school is difficult. And there are different ways to explore that and from different perspectives. And you can also be working towards a different conclusion, whether you want to make everyone feel better about high school and whether you want to mythologize high school or

satirize it. But the conflict is, man, high school, what a weird time. Almost invariably. Yeah, which it is, by the way. It's like, that's fine. That's a really, we learned last night, stories have power. And that's a very powerful story that everyone can connect to. That's the other thing, right? That there's almost no one who had a totally seamless experience through high school. And if they did, then they probably deserve to be a villain in a movie, which they inevitably are. Yeah, they're Patrick Bateman. Yeah. So there is something universal about these stories because everyone has an awkward

time when they're a teenager. What would the Amanda Dobbins high school movie be about? Oh, God. I mean, the thing is, is that it's pretty close to Booksmart. I didn't put Booksmart on my top five, but, and I wouldn't say, actually, I did. High school, the night we graduated high school, I, like, finally went to the big party with, like, all of the football players. And, like, we all went to the same party and got really hammered. And we're just like bonding around a fire.

So I guess it's kind of like that. What a touching story. It was fine. Like, it's not like I've talked to them since. That's the other thing, right? Like, you know, if they're listening, hi, I hope you're doing well. They're probably not because they all... God, if they're listening. They're not.

We could be sending such amazing messages to them right now. They went and did other things of their life. So it's more like a moment in time thing. Any specific shout outs you want to send to them right now to say like the starting tight end on your high school football team? His name was Rodney Taylor. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. He's not listening to this, but I do actually remember that.

And because he like I had known him since we were in like second grade. And then I remember him being like, I would never expect you to get drunk at a party. And I was like, well, we graduated high school. Here we are. It's amazing. You and Rob Gronkowski together. Yeah, it's really true. I'm glad we got that on the record.

Let's talk about our top fives. Okay. Number five, Amanda, what do you got? Bring It On. Ooh, okay. Yeah. Not a fan of this movie. Go ahead.

Really? Well, I think it's fine. I think it's pretty good. I think it's actually been overstated in the years since, but I'm actually interested to hear you break down what you like about it. So a couple of things. Number one, it was released in 2000 when I was in high school. So it is like very of a moment. This is a key part of, we didn't talk about this sort of like when you see it. Yes. But it is also speaking to a direct experience which I think is important and there's also we've been talking a lot about the the year 1999 and the music and the movies that um came out then and 20 years later

when you're doing a critical take on it it tends to be the like cool stuff that gets discussed but in 1999 and 2000 that was the era of Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears and TRL and like really mainstream, cheesy teen pop culture as dominant pop culture. And Bring It On is an outgrowth of that. And also to some extent, a satirization of that,

which I appreciate. Because even at the time, I was just like, wow, cheerleading seems really fucked. Kirsten Dunst, one of our all-time great evocations of what it means to be a terrible teenager she's extremely important to me and I think this is a pretty great performance and I how many Kirsten Dunst movies are on your list is there another one not on this list I you know because I don't think virgin suicides enough takes place in a high school. The high school aspects of it I really like, though.

I mean, this scene with Josh Harden walking down the hallway is iconic. What about Crazy Beautiful? You got that on the list? No, it's not on the list. I mean, it's like... Interview with a vampire? That doesn't count. I was like, can I put Marie Antoinette on this?

Because in many ways, that's a high school movie. Interesting. How old was Marie Antoinette when all that business was happening? Literally like 15, 16. Oh, really? She's 15 at the start of that movie. Yeah. I mean, the whole royal thing was really fucked up.

Is that historically accurate? Yes. They're really young. Whoa. Yeah. That kind of puts a new shade on that. Of course. That's why she's just like running around being like, give me Macaron Towers and let me wear

Chuck Taylors or whatever, because it's a high school. So it is sort of a high school movie. But I did not put that on my list because even though Versailles has many similarities to high school, not in fact a high school for the purposes of this conversation. So Kirsten, that's very important. Finally, I do think the fact that this movie at least tries to engage with some of the class and racial dynamics that are often overlooked in these movies. Like, I give it some credit. This is talking about cultural appropriation 20 years before that became or like 15 years before that became a Twitter buzzword. Not that it solves anything.

Not that you only get credit for trying, but it is at least bringing some of those ideas. That's all. No, it's a good, it's a great case. I shouldn't say I'm not a fan of it. I do like the movie. I think it's a classic example of, I went to college that year and didn't see that movie. Yeah. And then saw it like 10 years later and I was like, okay, this is pretty cool.

Like, I don't really understand necessarily the cult around it, but if I had gone, if I'd seen it in a theater the year that it was released, maybe I would have a different relationship to it. Can I also just say, so do you know the the cheer that starts it that's like the nightmare dream we can play it will you perform it i'm sexy i'm cute i'm popular to boot i'm bitchin great hair the boys all love to stare i want it i'm hot i'm everything or not yeah i can keep going i can't believe that just happened. I know all of it. But the actual cheerleaders at my high school performed this.

I don't think they understood totally that it was a joke on them, which also at some point, you know, it's not really a joke on them. This movie, too, both comments on and glorifies certain aspects of popular girls. But yeah, when it shows up in your actual high school it has an effect on you bring it on is a great segue to my number five which is carrie is there even carrie white the girl no one likes oh sorry about this incident cassie it's carrie yeah have you seen carrie uh i've seen like the big scene okay so you've not seen the film no because you know I'm a horror wuss but I know all the major plot points and I know the major

thing so one thing that I hope you'll do this summer since you publicly announced that you have conquered your fear of horror movies and in fact horror movies aren't scary is you'll go back and watch some of the classics Carrie I think pretty scary, but for the most part is works in many ways, like a great high school movie. It's about, it is, it is sort of a, I'm sure it's an inspiration for book smart in some ways. Now, Carrie obviously is much more of an outcast. She's much more socially incoherent. She doesn't quite know how to fit in. And she's got this very fraught relationship with her mother and with her sexuality and her femininity. And that informs her relationship with teen girls in the school. But the movie is basically about the torment that happens inside of a high school and particularly at the hands of cheerleaders who heretofore bring it on were seen largely as sort of like demonic bully figures, you know, are very rarely the heroes of a story. And obviously the pig's blood pulled down on her head

at the prom is very iconic and lighting everything on fire. And the showdown with Piper Laurie, her mother character, all that stuff is as wonderful and scary and intense and extraordinarily well-crafted by Brian De Palma as everyone says it is. All that stuff is true.

But just as a high school movie, the John Travolta character, the Nancy Allen character, the way that they subvert but then also make the archetypes of these characters supersized. It's almost like a silent movie. The close-ups are so close

and the slow motion is so slow and the music is so loud that it's such a ridiculous over-the-top evocation of what it's like to sometimes... You know when you've had a bad day in high school and you're just like, God, everybody hates me and I hate myself

and I don't know how to get through this and I don't know how to communicate. I don't really know what I think about myself. It's a very smart portrayal of that. And Stephen King's book, of course, does the same thing. But just strictly in the sense of high school, I thought Carrie would be a good entry here. It makes sense.

Maybe you'll watch Carrie? I will. I think also the last scenes definitely communicate all of that. And it's also not, none of those feelings were limited to high school, which is true for most of this, which is, well, sometimes not. Sometimes you just have a bad day and everyone hates you. You want to burn it down. Yeah. Because you're just, you can relate to them at all times. What's your number four? number four is heather's veronica finally i got a note of kurt kelly's i need you to forge a hot and horny but realistically low

keynote kurt's handwriting and we'll slip it onto martha dumb chuck's lunch tray shit heather i don't have anything against martha dunstock you don't have anything for her either. Okay, I almost put this on my list. Okay. Give me your case. Well, Heather's is the movie that for me brought all the other movies. There is a theme of

satire and commentary on my list rather than distance from high school rather than embracing high school is one of the major themes which, you know, you can call my therapist later

if you want to talk about it. Misanthropic Amanda, yes. But Heathers is like the original, you know, it came out in 1988. So for me, all of it's the earliest movie on my list. And it's kind of this movie that one day you're old enough to see. And like, it's definitely someone older is like, yo, you should check this movie out. And you're kind of like, I think the first time I saw it, I didn't even really understand everything that was happening because it is so dark and screwed up. And certainly would not be made today. And in fact, they tried to make a TV version of it recently.

And that went not very well because of recent events, real actual real life current events. But I think it informs all of the other movies and informs what a lot of young women who don't really 100% fit in, both in high school, but kind of with each other, it does start to lay bare some of the tensions of inter-female, female groups and female friendships and how that can be intense and political. So this is a place of honor. I think it's a great entry. And I know that you guys recently did a Mean Girls Rewatchables episode.

And I like Mean Girls. I liked it a lot when it came out. But in some ways, Mean Girls Rewatchables episode and I like Mean Girls. I liked it a lot when it came out. But in some ways Mean Girls felt unnecessary because Heather's already took the concept to its logical extreme. It already like busted up the idea of the popular clique and the nasty

girls in high school. Like obviously the tones are different. They have different goals. But Heather's like really puts an end cap on it. I'm just going to go ahead and skip my number three is Mean Girls and i have our we've done i've done several podcasts about this so we don't need to spend too much time but yes heathers sets the stage for it i think like heathers you can't i mean what's your damage is a iconic line that we use all the time but mean girls basically had to make all of these ideas palatable and usable in the mainstream because you can't do that with Heathers anymore it's too dark and

too spiky and I think Mean Girls came along at just the right moment and Tina Fey who wrote it is very talented in kind of opening up those themes and it's just kind of the lingua franca of high school and it's certainly on the internet right now because Mean Girls was released just as the internet was really taking off. And it was kind of one of the first meme movies. But I think Mean Girls kind of updates and takes the lessons of Heathers and applies, you know, offers them to everyone. If you were going to do a double feature, you'd have to run Mean Girls first and Heathers second because of the extremes that Heathers goes through. One thing about Heathers that I always liked was just this bit of trivia. Daniel Waters, who wrote the movie,

really, really, really wanted Stanley Kubrick to direct it. And I want to see that movie. I want to see the Stanley Kubrick high school movie. I guess maybe Carrie might be the closest we'll ever get to it. But that would have been fun. Mean Girls is very good. It's not on my list. My number four movie is Dazed and Confused.

And there you guys were in class trying to list all the Gilligan's Island episodes without even a hint of irony. When the hell are you talking about, girl? You weren't thinking about it, were you? Gilligan's Island? It's what's called a male pornographic fantasy. Oh my. Think about it were you gilligan's island it's what's called a male pornographic fantasy oh my think about it you're basically alone on a deserted island with two readily available women which only number four which we talked about now you know if i wake up tomorrow it might be my number one yeah i was gonna say number two uh i've already talked about kind of what's great about link later the way he finds a cast the the way he said something in One Night, the way, you know, in some ways,

there is a hierarchy in Days of the Confused. And in other ways, the character of Randall Pink Floyd, I think is a character that a lot of guys wish they could be, or in the worst case, think they are. Where they're like, I'm friends with everybody. I get along with everybody.

The stoners, the nerds, the jocks, I'm right in the middle. And I think Richard Linklater fancies himself as a bit of a Randall Pink Floyd. And that character, even though he's not in every frame of the movie, has a uniting sense. It's a smart plot device to put somebody like that in the movie because then you have a reason to keep bouncing around from figure to figure to figure to figure. That's just one of the ingenious little things that makes that movie work so well. So I just want to point that out. If you're listening to this podcast and you haven't seen Dazed and Confused,

I can't believe you're alive. Thank you for listening though. It's a remarkable choice by you and we appreciate you. Congratulations. My number three is Scream. What's the matter, Sydney? You look like you've seen a ghost.

Why are you doing this? It's all part of the game, Sydney. It's called Guess I'm Gonna Die. Fuck you. Oh, good one. And I have also done a rewatch of what was about Scream. It's difficult to not be repeating the same movies we've talked about over and over again.

We have our own canon. I have seen Scream. I want you to know that. I think you like it. You like Scream. Yeah, of course. You know, Scream doesn't, we don't need to make the case for Scream. Scream is, imagine how radical it was for a young teenage me to see a movie like Scream, where I love horror

movies. I love teen comedies. I love everything that's meta that is explaining why things work. And it's all these things fit together. And each aspect of the movie works well. The meta stuff works well. The comedy works well. The horror works well. It's not, nothing is at the expense of something else. It all fits together seamlessly. Also finding the right young actors at the right young times in their lives and platforming them in a great way. Scream. It's true. The idea of explaining things is like an important through line, which makes sense, right? Because you're a teen and you're still learning about the world and you just want to be understood and to recognize yourself and also have someone help you through the hell that is these years.

So things that explain the references, that explain the social systems, that explain even how you feel tend to work in this genre. Can I give you my theory about podcasters? Sure. I think maybe 80 to 90% of podcasters consider themselves or were told explicitly that they were quite precocious when they were teenagers or preteens. And these movies, these high school movies are doorways for precocious teenagers, where they're like, yes, you have evoked something, a specific feeling that I have that I haven't quite been able to put my finger on. And there's a reason that podcasters like us are praising these movies at all times. And there's a reason there's a kind of a canon around these kinds of movies, because there are all sorts of high school movies that we're not talking about.

There's like, there's Taps or there's Project X. You know, the tonality of these movies is very specific. It's very smart. It's very cutting. It's very emotionally informed. Yeah. You know, there's something unique here on our list. So what's your number two?

Great segue to Lady Bird. There you go. I was on top. Who the fuck is on top their first time? You mean like awareness of how many civilians we've killed since the invasion in Iraq started? Shut up. Shut up. Different things can be sad.

It's not all war. Says it all. Greta Gerwig is a genius. And, you know, this obviously, this is a recent movie, but is set in 2003, 2002, 2003, which Greta Gerwig is, I believe, a year older than me. So this is the nostalgia version of the references. There's still time to catch up. God. Well, now I'm really depressed um but you know it's like the dave matthews song in lady bird is hilarious and it's important to identify your

own biases and relating to something but i guess this is the most emotional movie on my list this is the only one that isn't straight social commentary and it certainly has aspects of that but I think this movie just does a great job of isolating both that precociousness that you were talking about which we might as you know let's let's be honest but the feeling of disconnect and many of the problems like this this movie is great about parent you know especially mother-daughter relationships which are really tough in high school or they're very tough at some point some for some people it's middle school for some people it's college but that's certainly a theme of being a teenager and does it really beautifully I think and And also talks about female friendship in a, I think it's an optimistic view of it,

but also an honest and sweet view of it, which you need. I'm not totally heartless. So I think it's great. Were you more into the Timothee Chalamet types or the Lucas Hedges types growing up? Oh, Timothee Chalamet is for sure. Yeah. yeah i mean that is an iconic character though the lucas had it's it's really really good i don't i don't want to i have shared too much about my experiences dating uh on this podcast and what we learned about boys and how they're represented in movies but the timothy chalamet character is spot on. The People's History of America, the Howard Zinn is, that's going to chill down a lot of women's spines.

I'll just say that. It was a moment of dark self-realization for me. I can confirm that that was definitely something that I read in high school of my own discovery and felt like I had

solved society. It's fine. We were all there together. It's tough. Greta Ger there together. It's tough. Greta Gerwig is a genius. My number two is, maybe against my own better judgment, Rushmore. What's the secret, Max?

The secret? Yeah, well, you seem to have it pretty figured out. Secret, I don't know. I think you just got to find something you love to do and then do it for the rest of your life. For me, it's going to Rushmore. Rushmore, I think maybe is a bit like the bring it on thing for you, which is when you see it, you see it at the right time. You see it at the age when you are most open to that sort of thing.

And over time, I have come to understand what Wes Anderson does, who he borrows from, how he built his style. I understand the mechanics of how movies work in a much more coherent way. At the time, I was like, holy shit, you can do this. It seems silly to say that, but in some respects, it was probably what it was like to be 13 and to see Mean Streets when Mean Streets came out. Now, not 23 and see Mean Streets and not 23 and see Rushmore, but 13 in See Rushmore and be like, what is this music? What is the way this movie is framed? Why are these people talking like this? I didn't know you could act this way. Is this ironic or is this sincere? It was like a sensory confusion. And so it inevitably has sort of logged itself inside my head. I think Wes

Anderson has been much better movies since this movie came out. I think all the actors have made better movies. I think these movies probably come to be way overrated in the canon of good movies. But it has like a very personal connection for me. And I can't deny that about myself. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's a lot of people's first Wes Anderson movie. I think a lot of people our age and who are interested in movies kind of found this early. And it taught us how to look at things.

And like you said, when you're in high school and when you're young, you are looking for someone to show you the way. You're looking for explanations and text, things that you can study and overanalyze, and it's certainly that. It is certainly that. What's your number one? My number one is Clueless.

Share two minutes so okay like right now for example the haitians need to come to america but some people are all what about the strain on our resources that it's like when i had this garden party for my father's birthday right i said rsvp because it was a sit-down dinner but But people came that did not RSVP. So I was totally bugging. Which is predictable, but it is important to be honest, as all of these movies teach us.

You have to be true to yourself. Clueless is one of those. I have a very vivid memory. I saw it at Lenox Mall with my mother because I think I was too young. My mother had to take me. And it's the same as rush more i'm just kind of like wow movies can be like this um and i you know was trying to understand my relationship to the main character who is the movie is both making fun of her and very much

likes her did you want to be share i mean i definitely wanted the fashion closet with the touch screen where you can pick all of the things. Yeah, I think you do want to be Cher, especially when you're young. And it's one of those things where when you're really, when you're very young, you never pick up on satire, right? And the best high school movies have a layer where you can just watch it and think, oh, I want to be that. Or that seems like something I want to know more about. And then you kind of, by watching it a bunch of times, pick up the humor. Hopefully, hopefully you pick up the humor and the layers as the years go on, which I hope I did.

I think also teenagers are so dumb. They're not. They're trying so hard and they're precocious, but I think I liked the fact that this was a movie of that there is you're not you can't know everything and that there are things to learn. That is very reassuring in a way. While also maybe you watch anything. Well, at least I am not as dumb as that person. but there is something about that character and the naivete and the trying to learn about the world that I think

speaks to a certain young moment I like Clueless a lot one of the things I like about Clueless is it's authentically funny it's a real comedy it has a lot to say

it's very sophisticated you're right that the satire is there there are certain there are dramatic elements that work really well in the movie it has a bit of a

games of thrones scene kind of plot arc with who she ends up with, which is notable. My number one is also very funny. It's called Superbad. We talked about Superbad at the top of the show.

I don't know if a movie has more accurately conveyed what it means to be unsure of yourself. And that's obviously a key aspect of high school as well. Not just like I've had a bad day and I'm confused, but not knowing how to do anything.

I find to be a difficult thing to translate on screen. Let's play a clip from Superbad. I don't see the harm in bringing one little condom. And one little bottle of spermicidal lube? Yeah, one little bottle of spermicidal lube. Evan, that's psycho shit, man. It's not. It's like Charles Manson shit.

What do you think, Becca's going to be psyched that you brought a bottle of lube? Obviously, the dynamic between Michael Cera and Jonah Hill in the movie is incredible, much like the dynamic between Caitlin Dever and Beanie Feldstein. And Booksmart is really great. That's a huge part of it. But there's something also similarly lived in even though it's absurd between Evan Goldberg and Seth Rogen who wrote the movie and who had been working on the movie since they were 16 had been started writing the movie when they were 16 that feels earned which seems like a that's

the kind of word we use to describe things like Game of Thrones or like did the plot really get to the point where it needs to be but if you don't really feel like you're with people that you want to be around or whose struggles you're trying to understand, then the movies don't work, you know? Like that's the same thing with Lady Bird. Like Lady Bird with a different director or a different writing style could have come off as like a stuck-up brat. And somehow you're like, oh, I love this person.

I connect with this person. I understand this person. Now, you know, Jonah Hill's character is like ridiculous and like pretty gross and silly. I don't know that I necessarily like relate to everything he does, but the actual perils of what they're feeling. I totally got that. Plus, it's the funniest fucking movie that you can see. It is very funny. And so that's my number one.

Any runners up that you want to hit on before? We didn't name one John Hughes movie. That's true. And I think- Is that because it was too obvious, you think? Well, maybe. And I think it might also be that we are three to five years too young. Could be.

I definitely, I mean- I dig those movies though. They're great. Breakfast Club, Pretty in Pink are both kind of we had to watch breakfast club in high school like they literally wheeled it in and just were like here's an important thing for you guys to learn about how to be in the world just like an english class what i i know but so i think that's why because the john hughes movies were presented to me already as canon and part of this is discovering your own canon and feeling like you are finding

things for the first time that rushmore feeling even if a million other people are like, oh yeah, we know this is really good. And John Hughes was already discovered for me, I suppose. That makes sense. What about the Cameron Crowe oeuvre, The Fast Times? He just wrote that screenplay, but... Yeah, yeah. Or Say Anything.

Great movies. I definitely... It will not escape anyone that all of my movies center on women which or young women which is just kind of that's what i relate to not me yeah that's true you you contain the star of carrie it's true i all of those movies are great but i just when i am when i was picking what i connected to i it was and there are also movies... I do think that the social dynamics among a group of girls at that age are very different from the social... No less complex. That's a good point.

But I was drawn to the satires and the things that kind of helped me understand and navigate the Game of Thrones that is being a teenage girl. And I think boys have a different set of experiences. So you can't relate as much to them. Yeah, there's a few more sort of like high tone films that I think would be interesting conversation points. I almost put American Graffiti on my list. I almost put The Last Picture Show on my list. The Last Picture Show would be in my top 10 movies ever made.

Sure. But maybe not in this formulation because I see it a little differently from what a high school movie is quote i don't know if we're ever even in a high school in the last picture show um remember i love brick have you seen brick no ryan johnson's uh second film no oh it's it's dynamic it's really really good it's a noir movie set inside of a high school for those of you who haven't seen brick gotta check that out it's great it's joseph gordon levitt as a star. I had a couple honorable mentions which I didn't put election on this list because it was on my 1999 list as

was 10 Things I Hate About You which I think are two great high school movies. Election is like kind of election is in many ways my rush more in terms of a complicated character that you were like oh I didn't know that you could be like that or talk like that.

Did you have a button maker in high school? No, but the last time we did a podcast about this, Chris also made a joke about me and a button maker. And like, I am aware that there is some Tracy Flick in me. I don't need to be told that by my closest friends in public every single time we talk about this.

Fair enough. You brought up election. I did. And it's fine. Again, this is about understanding yourself. The other one that I, to go on the other end of the spectrum,

21 Jump Street, the remake. Yeah. Really funny. Really good. Yeah. It's not on my list, but I think it is really funny

and it also does it to that meta quality of commenting on our understanding of high school movies. Can I give you a high school movie recommendation related to 21 Jump Street?

Sure. It's called Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse. I knew that you were going to say that. From the creators of 21 Jump Street, Lord and Miller comes into the Spider-Verse. And I'll watch it. Hire Channing Tatum. Put real Channing Tatum on the screen.

And Amanda's in. That's it. That's what it takes. If only Amanda would watch Into the Spider-Verse. Amanda, thanks for chatting about high school and baring your soul. Anytime. We'll see you later this week when we talk probably about childhood once again with Aladdin.

Thanks again to Amanda Dobbins for opening up her slam book and chatting with me about high school movies. Now let's go to my conversation with Olivia Wilde, Beanie Feldstein, Caitlin Daver, Billy Lord, and Katie Silberman from South by Southwest. I am joined by the largest collection of people that I've ever interviewed in my life. I'm going to go around the table and introduce all of you guys. I'm here with Beanie Feldstein. Beanie, hello. Hi. Screenwriter Katie Silberman. Hi. Billy Lord. Praise be. Director Olivia Wilde. Hello. And Caitlin Deaver. Present. Guys, how's it going? So good. Strong. South by Southwest is wonderful. Katie, I'm going to start with you since you're the screenwriter.

Where did this movie come from? Where did it come from in your brain? Yeah, I'm one of four screenwriters, so I came on to the process, and the general concept had been established by a lot of really talented writers before me. And it was really fun to come on and develop it with Olivia, who brought so many ideas because we wanted to tell a story about smart girls who were more than just smart girls. And I think in a lot of these stories, if the characters start out as nerdy or smart, that's really their most defining characteristic. And everyone here is so

brilliant, but also cool and very specific in different ways. And that's kind of the impetus for how we started wanting to tell a different kind of high school movie. And so that was really exciting to be able to dive in in that way. Olivia, what about you? Why is this your debut as a director? Well, I think, you know, movies in this vein are part of why I wanted to make movies and be a part of this art form. You know, I grew up watching Breakfast Club and Dazed and Confused and Clueless and so many more movies that seemed sort of like generational anthems. And they helped me get through a lot of difficult parts of my adolescence. And then even now, I look back nostalgically on that time and

realize how much those movies helped me. And it's important to kind of help people contextualize life I feel like that's part of what we do as storytellers and I think showing people going through difficult things is essential to help them handle their own lives and I I really wanted to kind of go back to that part of my life as a film watcher and make something that I think I would have really benefited from. And movies have evolved in a lot of ways. It is no secret that films are predominantly male-driven, that very few women are in the same film. And if they are, it is remarkable if they have names and speak to one another. In fact, there's an entire test named after that, and very few films pass the Bechdel test. So we wanted to raise standards,

and I wanted to make a film that would have really transformed my perspective on life had I seen this as a young woman, and even as a woman now, frankly. I feel like these movies that you're talking about kind of live and die. I'm fully crying, sorry. I think this interview is over now. I'm fully sobbing. I feel like these movies,

excuse me, it's really, it's obvious that you guys get along very well. And it's, I feel like they live and die based on the chemistry. Like the Breakfast Club doesn't work if those six people don't click.

Yes. So did you guys all know each other before you started working together? Well, Billy and I went to high school together. Wow. But we never spoke. It's really upsetting now.

We're a year apart, and in high school, that matters. In life, you wouldn't even know someone's generally in their 20s, but you would never know their exact class year. We went to a pretty big school, but we didn't interact. Caitlin and I had never met. I'll never forget the moment you guys met.

They hugged for five minutes straight. They held hands through the whole lunch. I was like until we- You never met. I'll never forget the moment you guys met. They hugged for five minutes straight. Wow. They held hands through the whole lunch. I was like, we have struck gold. And they were really interested in committing fully to building this friendship and wanted to live together through production, which they did. We lived together. In West Hollywood, baby.

Cozy, cozy, baby. Wow. How long was the shoot how much time are you spending together then the shoot was 26 day shoot but you guys were living together

in pre-production as well yeah because I came back to LA I live in New York but I came back to LA for like five weeks before we started so we were there for we were together for a long time

and it was amazing not only because we talked to each other the whole film so we would run lines constantly over pancakes all the time. But also just we would wake up and we would be together.

And it was so cozy and felt so like, I don't know. Just there's a different energy that you get when you live with someone. And you know like the whole ins and outs of their day. And we were also together all day. So it's just this beautiful symbiotic thing of like going home together. And just having that like decompression time after work. And then on the way to work. It was just this beautiful symbiotic thing of like going home together and just having that like decompression time after work and then on the way to work. It was just really special. Yeah, it really made all the difference, I think, for our chemistry.

I mean, we fell in love the day we met, obviously. But it was really nice to be able to like, we were doing night shoots for this, pretty much the whole movie. And so it was really nice to just like go home. We were on our own time zone. And so it was really nice to just like go home from work at 6 a.m. and then just like fall asleep together and then wake up at like 1 p.m. to eat pancakes together. It was very fun. It's like bartending. I firmly believe you can't fake chemistry like they brought to the film.

I think there's no shortcuts to that. And these were all actors who wanted to do the homework. And quite literally, I mean, we had a no sides on set rule. And I asked everyone to be off book and everyone rose to the occasion. Everyone was so professional, so energetic. Those long nights were no joke. I remember asking Billie to improvise a scene at 4 a.m. Maybe 5.30. Maybe 5.30.

I think the sun was coming up. It's one of my favorite moments in the film, and it was only because of her complete openness and professionalism that we were able to capture that moment. But that's really rare, and we were so lucky to have this cast that were showing up in every sense of the phrase. How much improvising were you guys doing on the set?

You know, it's interesting. We didn't have it. It wasn't, like like fully improvised, but Billie did a lot of improv. Sorry. Billie said whatever she wanted. We took things more specific about when to use it.

And we made changes on set, but as a group. Like there was a very fluid process that way. Yeah, yeah. And we, you know, one of the most valuable lessons I've learned from being an actor is it's really helpful

when a director speaks to you in terms of your own experience and training. So I recognize that all of our incredible ensemble came from very different backgrounds in terms of acting. So, you know, for instance, one of our actresses, Victoria Ruesca, she had never been in a film before. So we found that for her, improvising was really helpful, and encouraging her to find her own way into the scene was always the best process. And she gave us gold. But it was up to me. It was my job to identify everyone's kind of comfortable process and then approach it in that way.

Some of these actors have been working since they were children. Some of them are classically trained, and some are totally new to the process. And that was so fun to kind of go through their process with them and to be sort of specific rather than saying all of you do it this way because that's not really helpful. I also felt like it really depended on the scene because for Caitlin and I, our characters are just ridiculously brilliant. So for a lot of it, it was like you want it to have that sharpness to it because that is how quickly their minds work. So we didn't improv as much in those scenes where the back and forth had to be that quick and that specific. But then when the moments where we're more like messing around and like kind of the moments where we're getting ready for the party and stuff like that were a little bit looser.

So I feel like it just depended on the scene that we were doing. That's such a good point. Yeah, some of those scenes had to be so sharp and were written so tightly, intentionally to create the certain rhythm between the characters. And Olivia also really created a dynamic on set that could evolve with the chemistry of the scenario, the location, the actors, the timing, and all of that. And that was really fun to be able to adjust to throughout because she had such a clear vision of what everything was that there was room to play within that. And it was really fun. Did you have like a, I don't know,

like a cheat sheet before you started making the movie and said like, watch these movies and we're going to talk about them? Or did you just go in blind and say, we're going to make our own standalone thing? Well, we all went and watched Fast Times together, which was really awesome. It was a really fun thing.

And I want to do that for every movie I ever have anything to do with because we're different film than Fast Times but something that's so extraordinary about that film is that each character in that ensemble is fully formed everyone no matter how few minutes they're on screen has made a choice and that's why it stands the test of time that's why it feels so nuanced and and interesting so that was great because I think it encouraged everyone in the cast to think of themselves as being essential as opposed to like, well, I have a small role.

I'm not going to really do that much. I'm just going to show up. They were like, wow, look how that person scored with one scene. I want to do that. It also, that film has such a specific vibe. There is an energy created that I think is really kind of incredible. I think it's another reason it's such a, uh,

an, uh, outstanding display of filmmaking. And I, I think, uh, that inspired everybody to kind of get on the same wavelength. We use music a lot for that too.

We played a lot of music on set to kind of get everybody into the same rhythm. What was on the mixtape? It was a lot of hip hop. Yeah. Um, and it's funny cause the film now I'd say is evenly split between hip hop. Yeah. And it's funny because the film now, I'd say, is evenly split between hip hop and sort of like alt rock

and some classic rock. But we listened to a lot of hip hop, a lot of like Lizzo, a lot of like lady hip hop, and then some hardcore male hip hop too. There's a lot of Kendrick playing on our set. But I think that it's not dissimilar to dance. You have to create an energy and a rhythm. You can't ask a huge group of people to come together coming from all

different places with all the different energy of their days and ask them to be in sync. That's a really difficult thing to do. And on film sets, there's not a group warm-up. Everyone gets there and it's hectic and then suddenly it's really quiet. And action, go, create perfect synchronicity.

I think that's impossible. I think we have to approach it more like theater. I think the idea of let's come together, let's get on the same page, let's get in the same rhythm and then, oh, look at that, now we're warm. Now we can get somewhere. I think that leads to the best results. As actors, did you guys bring personal school experiences into the movie?

Katie, raise your hand. Yeah, I'll go first. Well, what was really funny for me is that my character, Molly, hates the theater kids. And I was like the definition of that in high school. So Noah Galvin, who geniusly portrays like the head of the theater troupe, the best human being in the world, and him and I are dear friends. And so it was really funny because I was just like, you know, we were nose to nose.

A lot of the film kind of like me just dissing theater as an art form, which is really, really funny. So I was definitely, I would have been in his crowd in high school. But I also, I went through kind of an interesting relationship with academics personally. And I kind of, Billy and I went to a really, really, really tough high school that was like, you know, kind of if my character was every single student at the high school. So I feel like I had a sort of an up and down relationship to it. I wasn't as dedicated constantly as Molly was. I feel like I found more of my Molly stride in college when I could sort of choose my own academic trajectory. And

then I became sort of intense like she is. So yeah, I would say, but Liv and I had very similar high school experiences. And when we first met, I remember being like, you can take the girls out of those schools, but you can't take those schools out of the girls. And like, we had such a, we really connected in that way of that intense pressure cooker that I think Molly and Amy put on themselves. Or maybe sometimes Molly puts on Amy. I feel like, well, my high school experience was a little different. I was partly homeschooled and in public school.

It was kind of like an independent studies thing. So my high school experience was very different, I would say, from a normal one. But I feel like I just connected with Amy from the start that I didn't, I don't know, I just felt like I, and Olivia's direction just like really helped me with everything. I don't know, it was just like very, very easy. And being with Beanie every day, it was just, I didn't really need much. It was just already so there anyway I also feel like like your friend I'm still best friends with my friends from high school and so from that perspective it was like I have my Amy and in fact my Amy is in the film her name is Molly Gordon and she plays my nemesis so it was really it was just like this crazy experience but I feel like that you know the

aspect of like female friendship being just so that like intensely important to young women and especially in high school and especially at that time of transition from high school to college that I connected with so deeply and just being able to look at Caitlin constantly and just be like we're in this together like no matter what else is happening like we got each other's back so So, in that way. Well, my character, Gigi, is basically my id. I connected to her deeply on like a super deep level that I didn't even know existed. So that was amazing to do. And she was kind of like what people saw me as in high school.

I got voted most edgy and most likely to be on the cover of a tabloid. Thanks, everyone at Harvard Wesleyan. That was very nice. I mean, guys, it really shaped my life. Like, thanks, guys. But anyway, Gigi's basically that. Really, I was kind of more like Molly and Amy and super into school, really into my grades.

And then on the weekends would be a little bit more Gigi. But I guess Gigi is my id and what people thought I was but also what I love because I went to Coachella or something I don't know but what I love about our film is that like Gigi and Jared who's uh Gigi's best friend in the film they so many of the characters in the films we see which is so interesting the smartest girls see as stereotypes in our heads like we project this vision of who we think they are onto them. And then I think the whole film is an unraveling of that. So what I love about Gigi is that Jared, who's her best friend, kind of like fleshes her out for my character, Molly, and gives her like this beautiful fullness that I feel like in other films, you just wouldn't get that. So I feel like

every character in this film, we kind of, Caitlin and I are like the nerdy girls and the crazy girl and blah, blah, blah. And then as the film goes on, we realize, specifically Molly realizes that like she's been so wrong about them the whole time. And like look at how full and even they are. No one's what they appear to be. Yeah, exactly. Don't judge a book by its cover, y'all. I was going to say that, but. If we could ask for any reaction to the film, it would be, I think, that people leave and they want to see people a little more fairly,

deeply, clearly. I want people to feel seen and to really encourage people to see others. I, like Billy, was misunderstood in high school. People thought I was super wild. I was not. I went to a boarding school. It was really nerdy. I cared deeply about academics. I felt, you know, that was my priority. But based on some arbitrary sort of judgment, I was stereotyped. And it's something that follows us through society. I think, you know, as women grow up, they internalize the judgment of others and struggle with that. And hopefully you get to a place in your later stages of maturity where you kind of shed all of that and be whoever you want to be. But I want people to do that at a younger age. I want people in their adolescence to realize it doesn't matter how people judge you, you're exactly who you feel you are,

and maybe perhaps look deeply, a little more closely at the people around you. So we wanted the audience to judge these characters unfairly at the beginning, as our two leads do, and then by the end think, man, was I wrong? Gigi's like the most loving, loyal person. Molly is so much more than just like a super intense, smart girl. Amy is not a coward. Jared is not just superficial. Alan is not just a theater guy. All these people.

George has more to him. All these people, George has more to him. All these people. So it was like my, you know, very personal expression of desire for people to break out of stereotypes and to stop judging others. Beanie, Katie,

Billy, Olivia, Caitlin, thank you guys for doing this. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you again to Amanda Dobbins, Caitlin Deaver, Beanie Feldstein, Olivia Wilde, Katie Silverman, and Billy Lord. Please tune in later this week to The Big Picture where Amanda and I are going to be breaking down the Disney film directed by Guy Ritchie, Aladdin.