The Big Picture - Celebrating ‘Scott Pilgrim vs. the World’ 10 Years Later With Edgar Wright

Episode Date: July 21, 2020

It's been a decade since the release of one of the most prescient, purely entertaining movies of the century: Edgar Wright's 'Scott Pilgrim vs. the World.' To celebrate the anniversary, Sean is joined by 'Pilgrim' superfans Jason Concepcion and Van Lathan to break down the best scenes, characters, fights, and lines in the movie (5:01). Then Edgar Wright stops by to talk about the making of the movie and the likelihood of a sequel (47:28). Bread makes you fat?!? Hosts: Sean Fennessey Guests: Jason Concepcion, Van Lathan, and Edgar Wright Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelley, and welcome to The Ringer Podcast Network. The Ringer's got a brand new show out now about NFL player Cam Newton called The Cam Chronicles. We'll be releasing new episodes every Monday for the next six weeks, but you can binge all six episodes right now for free on Spotify. Here's a quick trailer. From The Ringer, I'm Talar Tans, host of the new podcast series The Cam Chronicles. NFL star Cam Newton has always been a complex figure. Over the past year, I've traveled the country

speaking to coaches and teammates, friends and family, and even briefly to the man himself, trying to unravel the enigma that is Cam Newton. The Ringer NFL Show presents The Cam Chronicles. Listen to the full series now on Spotify. We are Sax-a-Bomb! One, two, three, four! I'm Sean Fennessey, and this is The Big Picture,

a conversation show about Scott Pilgrim vs. the World. It has been 10 years since Edgar Wright's wondrous movie was released. It's an inventive hybrid of martial arts, video games, screwball comedy, action-adventure, millennial anxiety, comic book fetish. The film premiered at the San Diego Comic-Con on July 22nd, 2010. And since that moment, it has been kind of a paradox. Beloved, almost obsessed over by its fans, and yet still way overlooked as a predictor of so much in pop culture.

Video game-addled adolescents, toxic dudes operating without any awareness of their problems, the vanity of fame, a wink-wink, nudge-nudge approach to comic book storytelling. So this episode is dedicated in full to Scott Pilgrim vs. the World. What was Scott Pilgrim exactly? Well, it was a graphic novel by the gifted Canadian artist Brian Lee O'Malley that Wright and his co-writer Michael Bacall adapted and brought to life with some cinematic techniques that I'd never really seen before, at least not in this way. It played like the payoff of Adolescent Obsessions.

It's a movie that used the digital sonic cues of video games to amplify Scott's quest, coins clattering on the ground after a victory over an evil ex, one-ups being snatched from the air, and it's edited and cut like a Brian De Palma movie on crack. It's using horizontal and vertical split screens to embody the feeling of flipping through comic book panels.

Slow motion is deployed at will in this movie, and it integrated music with original songs by Beck and longtime Radiohead producer Nigel Godrich into a story that was powered by rhythm. The perfectly synchronized music to action staging that Wright perfected in Baby Driver starts with Scott Pilgrim. The way that cymbals crash as punches land and images move in accordance with the songs, it's amazing to watch. The staging and choreography is ingenious, essentially unprecedented in a North American production. It's one part Bruce Lee, one part The Matrix, one part Phantom of the Paradise.

It's just a visually and emotionally thrilling movie. Did I mention that this movie also handpicked a cast of soon-to-be stars right as they were about to peak? From Chris Evans to Brie Larson, Kieran Culkin to Aubrey Plaza, Anna Kendrick to Mary Elizabeth Winstead. This movie's lineup now looks like the greatest hits of the MCU, DCEU, Disney, and HBO lineups. And it all seems to be lovingly parodying or paying a heavily winking homage to the work that they would do in the future. I've never really seen that before, something that saw

the future in this way. It's like studio executives watched the movie and thought, yes, this is good, but let's make it more basic. Scott Pilgrim was not a big box office hit, but it did become one of the quickest cult classics I can recall. It's highly quotable, eminently rewatchable, and a fairly modern love story that looks at how shitty dudes sometimes need to get punched in the face to evolve with the world. You have seven evil ex-boyfriends? Seven evil exes, yes. And I have to fight? Defeat. Defeat your seven evil Exes if we're going to continue to date? Pretty much. So what you're saying right now is we are dating?

Uh, I guess. Does that mean we can make out? So, fun episode today. I talked with Edgar Wright about the challenges and joys of making the movie and its incredible legacy 10 years later. I've been wanting to talk to Edgar on this show for a long time, so this was really a blast for me. But first, let's go to a chat I had with The Ringer's Jason Concepcion. He's the co-host of Binge Mode and a new show on The Ringer Podcast Network called The Connect. And Van Lathan, co-host of The Wire Way Down in the Hole and Higher Learning. They're both Scott Pilgrim superfans, so we talked about why this movie rules. Let's do that right now. Wow, a big picture honor. Van Lathan, Jason Concepcion, two Scott Pilgrim super fans, thank you for being here.

Thank you. What up? Guys, I wanted you both on because I know that you're fans, and being a fan is complicated these days. This is a 10-year-old movie. I want to go back to the moment 10 years ago for both of you. Van, maybe you could tell me a little bit about when you first saw this movie and what your initial reaction to it was. I was shamed into it. Yeah, it was a shame. That's what happens. A lot of the best things in my life have come directly from shame. And so I missed it in its theatrical run. Didn't

see it. And I was talking to a friend of mine and a friend of mine goes, he was talking to me about this great show that he had heard that was coming to HBO. And the show was called Game of Thrones. And it was coming to HBO in a little while. He was telling me about all of these books and stuff like that. And then he says to me, he goes, but I have a feeling you're just a surface nerd anyway. And I was like, no, I am the nerdiest of the nerdy. He goes, well, did you see Scott Pilgrim versus the world in theaters? And I was like, no, surface nerd. So then he tells me I have to see the movie. I watch it. And right away,

I was blown away. And I had the DVD. I went and had the DVD and I just like looped the DVD over and over and over and over and over again to the point to where my girlfriend was just beside herself in hating the movie. She hates the movie worse than anything else. What was it that clicked? Why did you respond to it right away? First of all, the character of Scott, just how he is both the hero and in many ways, the villain of the movie at the same time.

You know what I mean? He is the guy that you're rooting for, but he is completely like personal. He's a jerk. And like, I was going through a period in my life where that was sort of me. And I related to in one part of the world having this intense longing.

And then in another part of the world, actually sh longing, and then in another part of the world actually shitting on all the people who are actually there for you. And plus just the way that it was directed, the use of the characterization, how everyone was a little tool to make this sublime sort of arcade game comic book world. I had never seen anything like it on screen and still have it to this day. I love that. Jason, what about you? I assume you must have been showing up early for this. I did not, actually. I missed it in its theatrical release, believe it or not, because I did not.

I was not up on the comic books at that time. And so I missed it in theaters and I got it on Netflix DVD in the mail in that little red envelope. And I think the thing that struck me about it, you know, there's that feeling you get when you watch something where you're like, fuck. Somehow this was the thing that in some way I was supposed to do

something like this. So when I saw it, I was actually kind of mad. I was like, this is, whatever it is that I'm trying to do with my life. Some of it is in this. And I'm so pissed that somebody did it. It just, everything about it from the, from the way that there's kind of like this heightened,

there's no real reality in the movie. It just goes from like scene to scene, but the, the, the visuals are spectacular spectacular but they're never overpowering and it's this really sublime mix of realistic visuals with lo-fi graphics that is perfectly well done it's this diy thing like that i from the the opening credits once sex bomb starts playing and there's that like lightning bolts coming off of them, I was just like, oh, no, this is this is perfect.

This is exactly what I've been waiting for. And I was just absolutely dumbstruck by it and and angered to this day, angered by it. Yeah, I feel like that's an interesting reaction. Maybe that says more about you than I know, Jason, which is like when I saw it, I was like, damn, I feel really seen. You know, I felt like somebody tapped into something. And I think if you grow up with video games and comic books, this movie obviously is capturing something in a way that like we think about comic book movies now. That's not what this is this is not mcu it's not dce or anything like that but it does still have that feeling then were you uh were you like a a person that cared about that stuff were you capped like catching every reference

that the the movie was making the first time you watched it yeah growing up i had over 3 500 comic books yeah big and appreciate i just want to give a quick shout out to hurricane katrina for taking my comic book collection uh like i'm just i'm just saying that's what happened like you guys talk you know and stuff like that people talk about all the stuff that was up but we lost stuff that meant a lot to us and that's one of the things that that that i lost lost during that. But yeah, so obviously that part of the sort of Scott Pilgrim versus the world universe got to me, right? Because the MCU does a great job of putting you inside of these comic book stories, storylines that we've known for a long time. And making them seem realistic like things that can happen in the actual world you know what i mean they don't really give what's going on on asgard they don't

say that it's magic they say that it's science and they make it believable right this movie isn't attempting that like it's the the panels of a comic book that are coming to life and it's making you say like it you know you're not going to get powers making you say, like, you know, you're not going to get powers by eating a vegan diet. And you know that. You know what I mean? So this movie is getting caught up

in the absurdity and the imagination even more so of that. I fell in love with every aspect of it. By the way, this film is partly a musical. Yeah. So, like, even that,

it's fantastic songs. I became a Metro fan because of scott pilgrim versus the world after brie does black sheep i'm like yo hello again friend of a friend i knew you went that song is fucking amazing and then i go in. All parts of the culture of the movie really struck a chord with me. I was all the way in. And it spoke back to comic book, to actually reading the comic book and flipping through the pages. Something that I had lost since I lost my collection. Yeah, I think the comic book aspect of this is really interesting to unpack,

considering how comic book movies, MCU movies movies rule the box office right now watchmen had come out maybe a year before this and there's a there's many many scenes in zack snyder's watchmen that are ripped directly from the pages of the book. But in a way that it's like, that loses the magic of the book. Whereas Scott Pilgrim, it's translating the feel of a comic book in a way that totally makes sense for the medium. And it's this alchemy of all of its influences that becomes really something perfect on the screen rather than something less than it was as a comic book.

Yeah. And I think that achievement is just incredible. Even to the point to where sometimes there's like almost an extended little black transition in between scenes, which almost seems as if you're flipping a page. Yes. Like it really even moves in the rhythm of a comic. It really does. They really nailed that almost better than any other film. I completely agree.

I feel like if you're watching like a Brian De Palma movie and he does a split screen, he's trying to draw attention to the fact that this is a split screen. But when you're watching this movie, you're like, I'm in a comic book. So split screens are panels. I'm going through the panel when the split screens go, you know, vertical and Scott has a sword and Jason Schwartzman has a sword and you see them in different panels. You're like, oh, this is, that is the experience of a comic book. But, you know, to what you're saying, Van, I think there's a lot of truth to that. This, this movie didn't necessarily have the same burden that a lot of the big comic book movies have now, because while Brian Lee O'Malley's graphic novel was successful, it wasn't like a cultural phenomenon. So for me, at least, like I never read it when I came to the movie. And so I was blown away by the story, the style, the tone, the choices, et cetera, et cetera. And I just didn't know where anything was going. I assume because neither of you guys saw it in theaters, you were not really aware of the book at all. I was not.

I knew that it existed and I'd seen it on the shelves, but I had not read it at that time. Is that why you like, why did you why do you think you missed it? Because that's that's a big reason. Like this movie has gained such an, a big reputation among its fans. And I feel like it became almost like an instant cult classic. Like it became a home video hit within months and, but no one saw it in theater. So I'm kind of trying to get to the bottom of why that was. Well, you know, that's interesting. I think the reason, I think the reason this movie disappointed isn't so much the comic aspect of it. I, I honestly think that it's just too Canadian. And this is, and that's, and that I, and I say that with, with the utmost respect to our neighbors to the North, I think it's, it's too culturally Canadian to hit big. Everything about it, from the music, from the locations, it really is, as Van touched on, in addition to being this great amalgamation of references, a musical, and specifically a snapshot of a moment in time in Canadian indie rock that I just think doesn't totally

hook American audiences for whatever reason. I think it's just too Canadian. Yeah, that's actually, it's actually pretty good. Like that's a pretty good observation. I agree with that. I also think that

it's a tick ahead of its time. Like, a tick. First of all, if you look at everyone who came out of the film, I mean, it's really ridiculous. Now, there were some people in the movie that were already big-time notable names. You know, Chris Evans and even Brandon Routh. And even Brandon Routh is like a wink to the comic book community right there by having him in there and all that stuff like that. But for a movie to be kind of that on the edge of things, it's really... A lot of times I have what I call the homeboy gauge, where I take my homeboys from back in Baton Rouge and I

put a movie on for them and then I see whether or not they can get into it okay and Scott Pilgrim versus the world is super devices divisive amongst the homeboys some Some of them be like, yo, man, this shit crazy, though. I'm fucking with this, bro. Like, this shit is kind of like, what he doing? Oh, he got a... Bro, I tell you straight up, for my queen, I fight all her exes for my queen. You know what I'm saying? The homeboys be like... And then other guys are like, yo, Van, what the fuck is this shit you got me watching?

Why? How come they fighting? How does he know how to fight? They never explain where he knew how to fight from. So the movie is a lot for people. And at that time, we hadn't completely dove into the absurdity and the realm of suspending disbelief for these films that we sort of are in now. Now a movie starts, somebody has powers, you don't even ask why. You just go, that's part of the premise of the film.

But coming out of sort of where we were then, we weren't quite to the point now where we could really appreciate Scott Pilgrim vs. the World. Yeah, I feel like only two years before that people were blown away. That Iron Man was kind of a dick with a sarcastic attitude. Like just the idea that a comic book hero could be that. Cause we were so used to Batman and Superman and even Watchmen, like you're saying,

Jason, which is so damn serious. And this movie is so self-aware and like kind of glib but in a good way and i don't think you get and this is something i wanted to talk to you guys about and we'll talk about some other stuff that we love about the movie but because you brought it up van i mean i feel like you know deadpool for example can't happen or like the lego movie can't happen or into the spider verse you know all these movies, the way that we kind of just accept when characters break the fourth wall in

the first second of the movie and they make sure that the audience knows like that, it feels like this movie really broke that down. I think more than that. I think the movies that we were, you know, whether it's a Iron Man or Watchmen to an extent, those are, um, there's a lot of setup in terms of,

you know, Iron Man is an origin story. Watchmen lets you know about the world and how it works to set up the context of the story you're about to see. Scott Pilgrim just drops you into it, just drops you right into it. And, you know, there's, uh uh at what at one point there is a reference to subspace which is a thing that really uh is is important to the comic book world of scott pilgrim they never explain what that is they they just drop you media res into the middle of it and i think with movies like spider verse and lego movie um lego the lego movies we've just

reached a point now where there's a saturation of origin stories. You know, we've seen all the movies. We've seen Thor. We've seen how Captain America got unfrozen. We've seen all that stuff. So there's just kind of a broad cultural awareness of who these people are and who these characters are. So you can just drop people into the middle of stories now. Whereas to your point, that really was, to Van's point, that

wasn't a thing when Scott Pilgrim came out. You didn't just drop people into the middle of a whole new comic book world without explaining it, which is what this movie does. Right. And now, they don't even have to, like, for example, you would never make a Batman movie now

where you show Bruce Wayne's parents getting killed again. We got it. You know what I mean? Like you, like if you watch a movie like we don't ever need to see, think about Spider-Man Homecoming. Spider-Man Homecoming doesn't even touch on Uncle Ben.

We don't need it. You never saw him. We don't, we got it. We know what happened. With great power comes great responsibility web something up bro get on with it you know what i mean and so and so we're just at a different place and just last thing about that is think about even nolan's superhero movies which were running superhero movies really for that decade yep they they were very heavy on origin and also very heavy on grounding those things into reality.

Those aren't even really superhero movies. They're really psychological thrillers with Batman in them. So I just think that movie was just a tick before like where we are right now where we'll accept more of this stuff. So one follow-up to that then, Van, like if you do The Gauge now,

if you showed scott pilgrim now would people would your friends be more accepting of it because as movie watchers we're like we're more sophisticated or we're more in on that stuff it depends i'm not even gonna lie because like remember when bright came out on netflix like it was still split amongst the home boys my crew on whether or not they should have explained what how they got into that world or whether or not it was cool just going with it why are you chilling with orcs right and there's still people who want to know why will is driving around uh with the with the dude there's still people who want to know that so i'm i can't say that but i can't say that that

this movie i think because the nerds also, we have our power now. We spent the last decade fighting for it. And now we have, now we got the juice. So I think the movie would be a lot more successful if it were to come out right now. Because the nerds have so much more of a voice. You just made me realize that Bishop and Scott Pilgrim have more in common than maybe I originally thought. Okay, let's talk superlatives

because I just want to hear the things that you guys love about this specifically. So favorite characters. Could be an ex, could be Scott, could be one of the friends. Van, who's your favorite person in this movie? My favorite person is Scott. Scott is so unbelievably...

He's, in many ways, a perfect character, right? Because you watch the movie, he is, even though he's super Canadian, he's also very American in that he is completely unsatisfied with everything that he has. He has a band, he has a girl, he has all of this stuff, but he just wants more, wants more to the point that he'll fight to the death over and over and over to get it. He's convinced himself, as we all do, that one person or one thing is going to change everything. And it's the one person who couldn't be less impressed by him,

which is such an unbelievably human thing. But at the same time, every time there is a challenge for Scott, he rises to it. Now, the second one that I really like is, and I'm going to blank on the name, Kieran Culkin in the movie, Scott's roommate, Wallace. I adore Wallace. Early Roman Roy vibes. I adore him as a pimp. He can have whoever he wants. But I adore him as a roommate. He always tells the truth. I adore that character. But I'd have to be honest with you.

It is Scott. I know that's a boring answer, but it's Scott. No, it's a good answer. It makes sense. JC, what about you? I also love Scott because, as we mentioned before, he really is an asshole. You know, he's like cheating on his girlfriends uh dating a girl in high school there's also but there is there is a thing in there though that i that i found very relatable

to uh you know being in your early 20s which is you keep on thinking oh this next person i have i have i have a crush on this person if i can only attain this person that's it this is my queen we're gonna that's it. This is my queen. We're going to, that's it. And then you get in that relationship and then all of a sudden you're like, ah, this is other person over here. And that Scott really captures that well. And for me, it's also Knives Chow. There's another version of this movie where Knives is like the hero of the movie.

I've heard about that. Her arc, you know, she gets to the place where she's infatuated with Scott, she's in love with Scott, she decides to fight for Scott, and then eventually she decides you know what, I'm better than him. I don't even need him anymore. So there's a world in which her arc is

the true heroic arc of this story. But yeah, it is Scott. He's just such a... It really is a brave heroic arc of this story. But yeah, it is Scott. He's just such a, it really is a brave choice to make this movie around this character who is really kind of a jerk. Yeah, it is. It's fascinating.

I mean, honestly, the movie is also sees the future in terms of the toxic male and the way that we like talk about that archetype because he really is that dude. And the Knives Chow point is a good one. When I talked to Edgar about the movie, we talked a little bit how Ellen Wong is really the only core cast member who hasn't popped as much as the rest of them, but she's really good in this movie. And she kind of, I still feel like

she's a little overdue. Maybe that's the way to do the sequel is to make it the Knives movie. I also just want to give a shout out to Ramona, who I think is a really smart way of doing it. It's like a riff on a Manic Pixie Dream Girl character, you know, where you think in the beginning that she's perfect because Scott is idolizing. He's performing this like act of sacrifice, of emotional sacrifice to get her. And he thinks that she's perfect. But if you look at the way that she treats other people and Scott and herself, she's also just really flawed. Very rarely in these movies, do you see these characters who, you know, Ramona is also an asshole, you know, and is selfish and is operating on her own time in the same way that Scott is.

And it doesn't apologize for her. It doesn't make it seem like, oh, well, she's this perfect, unattainable woman. She's got problems and she talks about her problems. So it's just a it's a pretty interesting, unusual way to start a movie like this that is ostensibly about heroism and love by pairing a couple of dickheads together. You know, I just I think it's really part of the genius of the movie. Okay, favorite scene. All right, I'm going to give you two and I'm going to pick one.

So obviously the, I guess, penultimate battle at the end between him and Jason Schwartzman is fucking fantastic. I once accosted Jason Schwartzman in a BevMo. True story. True story. True story. Jason Schwartzman was walking through BevMo over off Sepulveda. I saw him.

I went over to him and I was like, yo, dawg, I gotta talk to you and I was like, yo, dog, I got to talk to you. The sweetest man I have ever met. I'm like, I even told him I didn't like Marie Antoinette. And we were like, no, seriously. And we went back and forth about it. He's like, I love that movie.

I was like, Jason, you don't love that movie. He's like, no, seriously, I love that movie. I think it's a great movie. I told him, we went back and forth about it. He's like, I love that movie. I was like, Jason, you don't love that movie. He's like, no, seriously. I love that movie. I think it's a great movie. You know, like I told like, we went back and forth about it. But no, I think that scene is just kind of, obviously that's an easy scene to kind of pick there. But another one is just the scene where Scott and her are, Scott and Ramona are sitting down and they're eating the whole

bread makes you fat thing. As far as the scenes that I rewatch the most, just their little date where they're in the house, that's a cute and human little bond between them. And it's like almost intoxicating how lovely things are right there. And I kind of dig that. Oh, one more. And it's like almost intoxicating how lovely things are right there.

And I kind of dig that. Oh, one more. I like. I love Brie Larson's performance of Black Sheep. Which you love every time Every while Who's away From you That one song where she's doing that song Where she's doing that song I've run that back a million times

I used to jog to that But those are the scenes that I would choose I know those are kind of easy ones But I love the movie so much It's really difficult for me to pick one scene that I, that I really, really enjoy. Those are not to get too far ahead, but the, the clash of demon head performing black sheep. That's my favorite. And then everything leading into the fight with Todd, that whole sequence is just wild and creative and beautiful and funny. And it like is, you know, there's a reason it comes right in the heart of the movie,

right? Cause it's, it's, it's right when the movie is like really wrapped. It's it's, it's finger around you. It's kind of impressive. What about you,

JC? Yeah. The Todd vegan fight is so funny and so pointed. Anyone can be vegan. Ovo lacto vegetarian, maybe. Ovo what? I partake not in the meat or the breast milk or the ovum of any creature with a face short answer being vegan just makes you better than

most people bingo this is not i think the best scene or maybe my favorite, but I think this is how this movie hooked me and how I knew it was going to be great. Basically, everything that happens in the beginning of the movie up through the credits. So you get the first kind of Tarantino-esque characters at a table talking about stuff. Yeah. Just talking about dating life and who, who Scott's dating. You get everything you need to know about these characters in that. Then you get introduced to knives as she comes over for band practice.

And the, the moment when Kim like cuts off conversation and just like goes into the song into that shot where you're looking directly at the band right the electricity is coming off it's just like burst of energy and then the camera starts tracking backwards into this long elongated room with this really dingy carpet and then you get the and then you get the the graphics scott pilgrim versus the world i was just like wow that i learned everything about the characters i know what's going on in scott's romantic life i understand what the what the relationships between all these people are

you see the impact of like that music can have on a person when they're young in the way that knives is just like leaning in when she's first hearing this music there's a great line that she has also later in the movie where she goes, I, you know, I only started learning about good music like two years ago, two years ago. Yeah.

So real. That is, that's so real and relatable. Right. And so like, to me that the intro of this movie is just an unbelievable, such a juicy and sharp book that just got me right away. The energy, everything about it.

I love that. That's a great one. Okay, let's talk about best fight sequence. So obviously the premise of the movie is this guy's got to defeat seven evil exes, not ex-boyfriends, evil exes. Jason, why don't you kick it off? What's the best fight in the movie? And why is it good as a connoisseur, really, of fight scenes?

Wow. You know, I like them all for different reasons. The Matthew Patel fight. So they used some of Jackie Chan's choreography people for these fights. Interesting. And Matthew Patel even does some of the moves that Ken Lowe as Johnny does in Drunken Master 2 where his leg, he picks his leg up and it kind of gyrates in a way

that's almost like break dancing. I think for me, because of the mix of action and humor, it's probably the Lucas Lee. Did you find the guy who's talking? I think I'm about to right now. Mr. Lee is traveling. Mr. Lee? Lucas Lee.

Oh. God damn it. You stole mine. It is just so funny. And then the line, Mr. Lee, you're needed back on set, is so good. So good. He's famous. Hey, I'm talking to you, Scott Pilgrim.

He's famous and he talked to me. good. So good. He seems nice. And that's a cut. Scott! Evil X! Fight! Let's get ready to go again, please. Let's get ready to go again. Hey. You ready?

You really think you can stand a chance against an A-lister, bro? And you're going lucas lee too yeah because like not not only be number one a couple of reasons that's the one that most the fights that i love from uh bully fights are like from 80s cheesy 80s movies right william zabka getting his shit kicked in and whatever movie he has to get his shit kicked in in um and that movie has that same type of feel it's that's that's really the one fight of all the fights where it's hero against like the square jawed villain or kind of that getting flipped on his head right there you know what i mean and the fact that scott wins that fight through guile through like wiliness through like he he turns that whole toxic jock bullshit against lucas lee can you go do a grindy thing on that deal over there like and i and i i love i love kind of that about it and the fact that like that's kind of the one where scott just kind of it almost kind of that about it. And the fact that like, that's kind of the one where Scott just kind of,

it almost kind of just jumps out at him because he didn't know that he was about to have to get busy. So that's probably my favorite fight out of all of them. But like Jason said, they're all dope. And with each one,

the stakes keep getting raised to the next level uh which i find amazing i love kind of the cross-section of comic books and video games like we talked about before but it's it's it's definitely lucas lee for me yeah that was the one that i wrote down too i guess i would give a shout you mentioned van just the final fight obviously your schwartzman and then the second the run back of the fight at like 10x speed it's kind of like the listening to a podcast that 2x version of that sequence you know where they're just like the sex bob-omb song is played twice as fast the cutting is twice as fast and the slashing into coins dropping on the ground is twice as fast i'd never i'd never seen anything like that before in my life. Like just,

just a movie moving at that pace is, is still, it's still kind of mind blowing. And I rewatched it like three or four times last night. I love it so much. Favorite line. Oh, got to think about this one. Oh man.

Go ahead, Jason. Let me, okay. There's, so you see you're introduced to Lucas Lee because you see a trailer or a commercial for his film on TV, right? And he's in a phone booth. There's a huge hole in the glass in the phone booth, and the camera kind of racks around so that it can see him through the hole in the phone booth.

And he's on the phone. He goes, you listen hard and you listen close bucko the next click you hear is me hanging up the one after that is me pulling the trigger so that like you really have to think about how funny that line is to get the humor that means the gun is empty it's like sublime bad writing unconsciously perfectly bad writing it's just hilarious to me yeah i'm just like like some of the lines that i love are so stupid and people are like you know the one where scott's at the party and he says i don't drink and he goes I seem to remember somebody getting a couple, getting really

fucked up on a couple of G&Ts. Like, stuff like, like, I was like, it was like, that, I run that back, and once again, my girl hates it. Because she'll be like, stop rewinding it if you want me to love

the movie. I love that line, but, like, bread makes you fat, I have favorited on YouTube. Bread makes you fat. Bread makes you fat? Like, Scott knows nothing about, Scott doesn't, Scott's so stupid, Scott doesn't even know what carbs are. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? It's like, bread makes too much will make you fat.

Brett makes you fat. Like he, by the way, just on that note, I know we're going to get to this, but Edgar Wright is in his fucking bag. He's all the way in his bag. He is in his bag in that movie.

He's all the way in that. Like he, like that scene is comedic perfection. Scott gives his line, that's all you need to know. We're out. The movie is just paced perfectly. I have the same feelings

that Jason has about the movie, but the feelings that I have are not because I think I could have done that. It's because I realized that I couldn't have. I'll look at it and I'm like because I realized that I couldn't have. Yeah. Like I'll look at it. I'm like, God damn. I wouldn't have even thought. It's just too good.

So that's probably my favorite line. The bread makes you fat, Joey. I love that one too. I probably would be remiss if I didn't cite you once were a vegan, but now you will be gone. Be gone. didn't cite um you once were a vegan but now you will be gone be gone like they're like there's something the the dumb smart aspect of this movie and it goes to what you're talking

about with what edgar does it goes to that feeling of like all of the adolescent shit that i care about is actually important and there's somebody who understands it even better than i do and they're putting it on screen is is I think part of the reason why we're all so it's a it's a fun movie to quote back to each other that's how you know that they did something right you know um you know Edgar is an interesting figure you know I think like that scene that you're talking about Van that's from doing 25 episodes of Spaced and doing Shaun of the Dead but then I do feel like he used this movie to figure out what he was going to do in the future too. Like there is no Baby Driver without this movie

in terms of like the rhythm and the pacing and the way that he uses music. Do you guys have any kind of bigger thoughts on, you know, what Edgar's career has been since Scott Pilgrim? I love Edgar Wright. I love Baby Driver. I love what he's done since then. It's one of the greatest disappointments

of my nerd movie watching life that Edgar Wright stepped away from Ant-Man. Yeah. And like, I get it. Because I get it. They got a factory over there, right? Right. And that's kind of what they do.

But like, it's almost, even when I'm in the theater, because Scott Pilgrim has now assured that I'll never miss another Edgar Wright movie in the theater ever again. That'll never happen again. So even when I'm in the theater and I'm watching Baby Driver,

and it's such a fucking intense, fantastic, unpredictable ride, I'm thinking, yo, man, Edgar is one of those guys that I want to see get their shot on that next sort of big, gigantic, huge level. Not that he wants it. He obviously doesn't.

But I know that his career is going exactly the way that he wants it to go, which is always liberating to see any artist be able to do that, but it's not going exactly the way I want it to go. So I agree with that. Yeah, I do agree with that. Yeah, the Ant-Man thing is fascinating, because on the one hand, he's the perfect director that you would have selected for that project. And I think the fact that Ant-Man turned out to be a solid Marvel movie, one that I really like, actually.

I think some of the set pieces in that are some of the best in the whole canon. I like it too. The fact that it turned into a solid Marvel movie tells you a lot and maybe in a disheartening way about the way those movies are pumped out to Vance, uh, to Vance point, it's a factory.

They know exactly what pieces go where they need the minimal input from the director at this point. And, uh, all they need is just direct the emotional scenes and we got the action. We got all that stuff. Um, but it is,

it is one of those things where like i can't wait for his criterion collection you know where it's just like all of his movies collected at once he's just one of those guys that's gonna have an incredible uh when you watch all his movies together you get the real feel for what he does but i agree it's like, I don't think he's ever gonna have that huge hit. He's just too niche and weird and exciting and always one step ahead of the thing that's happening. And even when he does genre, something like Baby Driver, he does it in a way that's not what people are expecting

or used to seeing. He does it in a way that almost deconstructs the genre that he's doing. So just one of the most original people out there. Yeah. I mean, that's one thing that I really admire about him. And I think it's kind of fascinating is that Scott Pilgrim is an outlier in his career because he mostly makes totally original stories. And one of the shitty things about everything that's happened to movies in 2020 is that we were supposed to get Last Night in Soho in September

and it got bumped to next year, his next movie, which is a horror movie. But I agree with you. I mean, I think when you look at his body of work together, you're going to be like, this is one of the truly original people of the last 20, 25 years in the space. Okay, let's close with this.

I asked Edgar about this too, and you can hear what he said shortly, but sequel, um, do you think it could ever happen? And would you want it to happen? Kind of a perfect ending. I think you'd have to, I think you'd, like we were saying earlier, I think you'd have to center it. The comic book, while titled Scott Pilgrim, is much more balanced in the sense that you're not just married to his perspective all the time. You follow his friends. There are multiple arcs where you're just dealing with the various other characters in the world. So I think it would have to be something like that, where you're spending much more time with Knives, much more time with Ramona um to do it i would like to see it i don't know what form it would take but i would like to see it i think that there's a way to do it but i think you'd have

to kind of like de-center scott from the story what do you think uh i call this goonies disease goonies disease goonies disease Is what I have for the movie Meaning I want to see a Goonies sequel But not because I think It will be good Right You know what I mean

Like Right To see like You know what I mean Like To see Josh I just want to see

Josh Brolin And Sean Astin And fucking Corey Feldman Jesus Like all together again As older Looking for the treasure You can make Choose your premise fucking Corey Feldman Jesus like all together again as older looking for the treasure you can make

choose your premise but not because I think it's gonna if for selfish reasons I want to see it again the movie The Goonies which actually

I was inside the movie and like was like freaked out as a kid because I realized it wasn't real and I wanted it to be real so badly I freaked out like really it should never be touched again really because I realized it wasn't real and I wanted it to be real so badly, I freaked out.

Like, really, it should never be touched again. Really. It should never be touched again. But if you ask me if I want to see a sequel, I'll always say yes. So, in reality, the Goonies disease,

it applies to this movie as well. In reality, they should leave it alone. In reality. It's perfect. But if they announce it tomorrow... I'm in, yeah. I'd be in. I'm reality. It's perfect. But if they announce it tomorrow, I'm in. Yeah,

I'll be in. I'm in. I'm in. I'm into van. Jason. Thank you guys for, for sharing your feelings. Appreciate y'all so much.

Thanks again to Jason. garbage truck. Oh no. I take you to the dump. Thanks again to Jason and Van. If you liked hearing Jason talk about movies, I would encourage you to check out the trailer to Jason's new show with Shea Serrano. It's called The Connect. Here's the trailer.

Hello, I'm Jason Concepcion. I think that's too much energy to start with. 20% less. Okay. Hello, I'm Jason Concepcion. I don't think that was it either. 5% either direction. Either direction?

Okay. Hello, I'm Jason Concepcion. Let's do that one. Let's do that one. Can you just let me do it? Just let me do it. Okay. Hello, I'm Jason Concepcion.

And I'm Shea Serrano. We have a podcast coming out. It's called The Connect. And it's f***ing cool. Each week, Shea and I will talk about two movies and the theme that connects them. For example, for our debut episode, which comes out July 22nd, the theme is work friends. I'm talking about 1999's Office Space. It's about three friends who work at a technology company.

And I'm talking about 1983 Scarface, which is about two best friends just trying to make their way to the top of Miami's very competitive cocaine industry. Another theme we'll have is mean mentors. I'm talking about Fletcher from Whiplash. Jason's talking about Miranda from The Devil Wears Prada. Another theme.

How about Matthew McConaughey doesn't understand outer space? I'm talking about contact. Jason is talking about interstellar. And yet another theme. Oh, man, why'd you do that? I'm talking about juice. Jason's talking about Lady Bird. There are categories and bits and contests.

It's a whole thing, and it's going to be great or it's going to be terrible. I don't know, but I'm excited to find out. Me too. Subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts. Drive right through

the needles I hold mine. Now let's go to my conversation with writer-director Edgar Wright. So I was thinking about this, and I'm sure when you were growing up and consuming tons of movies, you heard about films that were considered ahead of their time, and you are now considered a director of one of those films. Do you like that Scott Pilgrim has that reputation? I don't mind it. I mean, no, it's fine. I mean, I'm definitely aware of those kind of movies, and a lot of them are some of my favorite films. So I think that's the thing. I think when you're growing up, you aren't really aware of what things did,

unless something's like a famous... I mean, I don't know necessarily that when i was growing up that i knew that the john cartman the thing was a flop or blade runner like sort of you consume it in the same way that as enthusiastically as anything else and then later you think oh it didn't do well oh that's interesting you know um i um no i don't mind that reputation at all i think it's actually um that's fine it's good i appreciate it you know have you looked at the movie recently because i feel like um there there are a lot of movies that have taken a lot of things from this movie but um i don't know how much you return to it Is that the sort of thing you do with your films? No, I don't watch them for my own

enjoyment usually. I usually watch if I have to do something with it. So I did watch it the other day because I did a tweet along for the Academy. They asked me to do Scott Pilgrim and I did it with some of the cast. So it wasn't like I sat in a cinema and watched it. I was tweeting along trivia facts about it at the same time. But whenever I do watch it, I'm overwhelmed by it because I just watch it and I think, oh, wow, how did we do that? Like, sort of, I mean, I know I was there

and I remember every single day of filming and I remember how much hard work it was at the time. But it's that funny thing when you make something and you build it brick by brick, but when you sit back and watch it finished, you just go, my God, we actually did that. It seems insane. You know, I mean. I think particularly also knowing what studio

filmmaking has become since and knowing that it was probably we were lucky to have made the film 10 years ago. And I just don't think that film would get made at all now. So now it feels quite miraculous in a way that there's something that sort of unique and idiosyncratic and daring, I guess, like made by like a sort of a major studio. Do you remember when you first became aware of the graphic novels?

I do. It was a screening became aware of the the graphic novels i do it was a screening of shaun of the dead in 2004 at raleigh studios um i was in la and i was doing a screening an advanced screening for focus features and two of the, who were both producers for Mark Platt Productions. And they came up to me after Shaun of the Dead and said, we've got your next movie. We have this book called Scott Pilgrim. They didn't tell me the name of the book that night. They just said, we have this comic book that we think you'll love. We're going to send it to you.

Okay, great. And they said, it's like John Hughes meets Kill Bill. I remember that's what they pitched it to me as, which I think is pretty accurate description. Yeah, that's good. And so they sent me the book and I read the first volume and I really liked it. And I didn't really think that there was...

It's that strange thing sometimes you get from studios where there's this kind of rush to get you to commit to something and make a movie or something. Then in 2004, I was like, well, there's just one book so far. I like it and I'd like to be involved, but what's the rush? I think I just got kind of attached to it. But my thinking was, I'm going to go off and do another movie.

And when I come back, there'll be more material. But I was definitely intrigued. And I thought the thing about it that I really loved, as I thought not just that Brian's artwork was beautiful, but it reminded me of the TV show I'd done called Spaced with Simon Pegg and Jessica Heinz, which was about kind of young people and, but was told in the sort of style of the media they consume.

That's what Spaced the TV show was. And Scott Pilgrim was sort of in a similar vein, was like, you know, a young man, like seeing the sort of life of this young man and his friends in the style of the video games and the anime that they consume. So the idea of, I haven't done Shaun of the Dead and then after doing Hot Fuzz, the idea of returning to this sort of magical realism that had been in space a little bit was really appealing to me. So I was definitely kind of like very interested immediately.

Were you expecting to kind of take on, I mean, this feels more like a work for hire thing where somebody says to you, you should do this as opposed to the kind of invented projects that had come before and also have come after for you so was did you know that you were going to take on adaptation and work that didn't originate with you um i mean it was something it was it was a rare it's the only thing to this day although there's other things i'm working on at the moment which is something that I made that I didn't originate. But I thought the source material was just really interesting. And I thought it was like a great idea. And I just responded to it in that sense, in terms of I could sort of see the movie

and I could imagine how it could sort of play out. Even at that point, you know, when we were starting to talk about making it um even at the point that we started making the movie brian had only published three of the books which was probably like 2007 by the time we started talking about it actively again or 2008 um you know so yeah i think it's just the source material is really strong and i really connected with brian liam ali himself and um you know there was a lot of even though we had very different upbringings there was like some overlap in terms of um a sense of humor and like a love of music

that was that was similar and I just really loved his I loved his artwork and I loved the way that the humor came through the artwork like he the way that he actually not just the artwork itself but even just the sort of composition of the frames you know like spoke to me so and I'd wanted to you, I like the idea of doing a comic book adaptation and something in Scott Pilgrim that wasn't actually a superhero like adaptation. Did he have, did he have strong feelings on what the movie should be? Or did he say you have to go and make your movie? Um, I don't think he had strong feelings on the movie in terms of, I think he was completely amazed and bewildered that we were thinking of making a movie out of it full stop. I think to

this day, I think Brian Lee O'Balley is still sort of confounded that Hollywood made a movie of that book. No, I don't think he had strong feelings particularly on what an adaptation would be. I don't honestly think he'd really thought about it beyond... At the point where we started'd really thought about it beyond he was at the

point where we started talking to him about it. We, he was still writing the book, you know, what, what typically has to happen for you to be convinced that you need to make a movie. Cause I feel like you are,

I feel like you are very specific in knowing what, what is the right move at the right stage of your filmography. I think in this case, like, um, I think that there was a, well filmography? I think in this case, like, um, I think that there was a, well, I guess I thought it would be,

uh, once we started like writing the script, um, which I wrote with Michael Bacall, um, uh, the screenwriter who I hadn't previously worked with, we had fun time writing it.

And I think it was because there was a sort of a real enthusiasm from Universal and from Mark Platt to make a movie out of it I think probably because at that time you know I just made sure on the dead and hot fuzz and um you know and so Universal really um uh wanted to keep working with me and there, I guess, a desire for me to make my first like American movie, or, you know, in this case, North American movie. So I think that was the thing is I felt like there was a sort of a bit of a pressure about it. And not in a bad way, because I wanted to make the movie. But like, you know, things are sometimes different where like, you feel like you're the one who's really like pushing the movie,

you know, like sort of like your, you know, other times you feel like you will something into existence. I think with Scott Pilgrim, there was a little bit like that in terms of we had written the movie and there was a lot of enthusiasm about it. And then the sort of writer's strike hit in like late 2007,

which went through until like midway through 2008. And then sort of, you know, once that was over, like I felt then it was like a bit more of a sort of uphill struggle getting Universal to sort of push the green light button. So kind of, I think, you know, like the latter half of 2008, we were sort of trying to convince Universal to make the movie. So there was that, you know, like, and I think because it was a budget level that made them a bit nervous, but we sort of like, you know, you sort of get that point where you sort of like done you've done such a dog and pony show.

Everything's worked out, all of the casting. And we'd done storyboards for all the major sequences and animatics. And we'd done the special effects test. And so I think eventually of eventually they agreed. Although I do remember, though, that I've told this story before, but it's true. I remember the day that we had the Greenlight meeting. Maybe it was late summer.

Maybe it must have been late summer 2008. But I do remember we had the Greenlight meeting, and after doing this massive presentation to all the marketing department and all the production department and the production department, Mark Schmugger, who was the head of production at the time, took me aside and he said, he goes, Hey, do you think the film would work if you didn't have all the special effects and the fights in it? And I was like, I'm not sure what that movie is.

And he goes, it all looks great, but if we decided not to do the special effects in the fights, do you think it would still work? You still have a movie. And I was like, um, I don't know. So I mean,

that was a slightly sort of, I mean, I, if I guess there was a slight red flag in terms of later, the thing that would sort of come to be the kind of like the question mark over the movie in terms of even once we'd made it especially once we'd made it and once we test screened it was like is this too like wild for a mainstream audience not wild in the sense of like that it's r-rated or anything it's just it's kind of um it's imaginative and it doesn't really feel like anything else.

And it doesn't really set out its rules in a way that your average general audience expects. So it's not something that was easy to pigeonhole. And that was something that I think, while some people thought that was a positive thing about it, then also for other people becomes a negative thing about it. It's something where it's like more difficult to market or more difficult to cut a trailer more difficult to sell because it's something where it doesn't fit easily into one box it's sort of uh you know it's got a fantasy element which is something that's just um you know it's just a little bit more you know imaginativeative and unique than your average Hollywood movie, which is sort of usually easier to explain.

And I sort of found, so I think that if there was like, sort of like any kind of concerns going into it, it was that. And it wasn't because it wasn't like, it wasn't costing the same as Hot Fuzz. It was like costing like, you know, four times what Hot Fuzz cost. So as such, they were sort of like anxious about it. But, you know, that didn't like sort of, but when I was actually making the movie, for the most part, I didn't kind of feel any of that like nervousness.

They just sort of let me get on with it and um you know cast who I wanted to cast and um and make the movie in the way I wanted to make it so so even though there were sort of challenges later in terms of like finishing the movie and test screening it and and marketing it and stuff the actual making of the movie is was kind of you know I was pretty much left alone. What was your state of mind at that time in your career? Did you, did you consciously want to make something much more epic than Hot Fuzz, which, you know, you're both of those films, Hot Fuzz and Shauna that are epic in their own way, but they're very contained and this is much more, you know, grand in scale. I guess, um, I didn't really think of it in terms of, you know, I think probably at that time I wasn't necessarily thinking

any kind of real, like, I think people think that directors plan out their filmographies in advance, but it doesn't really work like that. You can sort of look back a bit and maybe you plot your next move based on the last one. But like, sort of, I think at the time it was the fact that the studio the major studio was willing to make this movie and i thought it was something that was really imaginative and unique and would really stand out and you know like i

said even then there was like a lot of exciting cinema being made but not always by the major studios they're usually like independent movies and international movies and you know sort of some studio movies are starting to kind of just feel like this or watching the same vfx reel and uh just be and even with comedies there was a sort of like a certain style that was starting to creep in which kind of everybody was doing and and whilst there'd be some really good ones you did feel like so everybody was kind of doing the same thing so the idea of doing something that was like radically different and with the studio was exciting to me so when the opportunity presented itself it's like I just kind of went for it you know what was it like having characters and a visual frame with

framework to start with you know was that freeing or did that feel like a hem to you in it all when you were imagining the movie in your head? No, really. I think having all of Brian's artwork was a gift. It was an amazing launching pad to make the movie. I really liked bringing his artwork to life. It's one of the things I'm really proud of with the movies. I feel like there's certain parts of it where you really feel like the sort of, it's kind of come springing straight off the page,

like right down to the casting and stuff. So I didn't feel any burden about it. You know, like sometimes people like might on the internet might have some sort of feelings about casting or something like that but like sort of you sort of quickly realize that like sort of that's that's a very very very small percentage of people in the world who are like people that have read the book and on a fan site and complaining about something that seems to sort of, it seems like a big thing when you read it. And then you realize that that's less than 1% of the population of the earth.

Scott is such an interesting figure. He's, it seems like even the portrayal of him, especially in the first half of the movie is a little bit, um, is prescient just about, he's a little bit of like a toxic, insecure dude who doesn't really understand the world around him or women. And, you know, it takes a lot for him who doesn't really understand the world around him or women. And, you know, it takes a lot for him to kind of get to the other side of the movie. Did you find that you were relating specifically to Scott or did you just make this movie because you wanted to build out this world in this way? No, I think there's an element where I related to him in the sense that I think that a lot of people go on that journey or some of them are still in it and haven't realized. I think the point of the movie is about like a young man

like has to realize that the sort of the people around him are not shiny objects on some video game quest. I think sort of that kind of like you know solipsism that comes from which i think is probably something that actually is through social media and stuff is something that's getting worse rather than better is this sort of like you know sort of like like people growing up with a lack of empathy to the people around them because they're sort of like wrapped up in their own solo adventure. And so I thought it was, I thought that was basically the point of the book was that sort of,

it was Brian E. Amalia created this character who thinks he's the hero of his own universe when in fact he's maybe the villain. And it's sort of, he has to sort of like realize that like the error of his ways and sort of like gets around these or like punished through these trials for it. I thought that's what the point of his ways and sort of like gets around these or like punished through these trials for it. I think that's what the point of the movie was. And in that respect, it reminded me of films.

I mean, I don't think anybody would talk about Scott Pilgrim and the Graduate in the same breath, but in a way, like those characters are sort of equally flawed. And you know, I think that's something that's kind of like, so people, you know, like, so the way that it presents itself, or even when you look at the poster or something, it's like, you might think that like, you know, Scott Pilgrim is like Luke Skywalker, he's the hero, or Flash Gordon or something like that. But he's not, he's a flawed young man who has to kind of like, realize, you know, the error of his ways and the way he deals with things in relationships. And I thought that was an interesting message to get out there. There was an element of a coming of age movie for people in their early 20s.

I love movies where a filmmaker throws a million things that they love into the movie. And Scott Pilgrim is like the pinnacle of that in many ways, you get Bollywood and martial arts and video games and King Arthur and garage rock and screwball comedies. Were you, were you consuming all of that stuff in the sort of run up to writing it and the pre-production and all that? How, what were, how are you filtering your, your media diet during the movie i think sort of like you eat i mean part of that was in the books and then the rest of it is is stuff that i mean it's probably why i responded to the books that there was a sort of um uh you know a love of music and um kind of action films that was in the, and anime that was in the, um, the books.

And I think I just sort of built on that really, but it wasn't something where I was like watching a ton of that whilst I was making it. I guess maybe I watched like sort of some martial arts films and stuff. I mean, I, I liked a lot of martial arts films anyway. I was a huge Jackie Chan fan. Um, but I guess in I guess in the lead up to the movie, I watched maybe some more films that were like a sort of more kind of mystical ilk, like the kind of Shaw Brothers type movies, like Five Deadly Venoms and Master of the Flying Guillotine

and One Arm Boxer and, you know, Five Fingers of Death and, you know, stuff that seemed to relate to the movie and was kind of like relevant. So I was watching a lot of that stuff in the lead up to the movie. The screwball comedy and the music stuff like was all already there. There was, there was a quote in the recent oral history of the movie that said that you had the whole movie in your head and it was just a matter of, you know, making it, getting it on

screen. And as I rewatched the movie and I wonder if, you know, this dawned on you when you were rewatching it too, but it just looks like it was a hard movie to make. Was it difficult to pull off so many of the set pieces and the staging that you had in the movie? Uh, yes, in the sense that it was, um, I think in a sense that like, there was a lot of, a lot of stuff to get through and like the, the, the set pieces in themselves were, were very challenging to make and tough for the cast. Cause it kind of becomes like a marathon at a certain point is that like uh you know we shot i think we shot for

like a hundred days which was good it was the longest shoot i've ever done and um and and those are busy days you know like and sort of and and you can kind of see in the movie because there's like six big fight scenes in it and uh and some of them were like i mean they were all like tough all of the fight scenes were tough and some of them like the end sequence was really tough to do and tough for the actors as well like yeah sort of like young actors most of whom had never done like you know any kind of martial arts before and stuff like it's difficult stuff to kind of like all keep in your head and we had to do kind of on the weekends we, we had to do like Saturday rehearsals where we'd shoot five days a week. And then occasionally we'd shoot on a Saturday

where we'd shoot like a musical number, like Black Sheep or Garbage Truck or like Summertime we shot on a Saturday. It's like, we'll shoot a six day and just do this song. Or like some Saturdays be like a refresher where it's like, because you do all the choreography at the start and then you have to keep remembering it. So it'd be like, okay, on Saturday,

we're just going to come in and just do a refresher on this fight. So I think for like Michael, Sarah and Mary Elizabeth Winstead in particular, because they were in the entire thing, I think it was really like exhausting and Ellen Wong who was in the whole thing. Some of the other exes kind of came in and out. And Ellen Wong, who was in the whole thing. Some of the other exes kind of came in and out. But yeah, it was an epic shoot. I mean, I remember it extremely fondly just because what a blast the cast and crew were

to sort of hang out with. And we were like a little family. Even though it got really tough sometimes because it was just like mentally and physically exhausting. And yeah, I can feel in the movie, like the bits where there was,

I think that the, the Katya Nagi's fight with the sort of Japanese twins, I think that landed, there's always a sort of point in the production where everybody is like running on empty. And it was that scene. I mean, it turned out really,

I like really like that scene. It's kind of great i mean it turned out really i like really like that scene it's kind of great but i remember shooting it and just feeling like i was going to have another spray i mean to be honest i'm usually like sort of like run myself into the ground on any shoot like um i've never been the kind of guy who you know knocks off early and uh or or is kind of like satisfied at the end of the day. There's always like something to be like sort of done better or there's always like one little missing piece of something that will like seem elusive and kind of obsess me.

But overall though, when I think, I mean, it was a really, like, challenging, hard shoot. When I look back at it, I remember it being a happy time just because I love that cast. And they were, like, so fun to be around. And, you know, to this day, we're all still friends. We still have a group email going that's been going now for 10 years it's the movie which is kind of extraordinary by like the entire cast is copied on this chain email and we you know write pithy like things to each other all the time the the cast itself is is quite

legendary now just one even when my wife and i sat down to watch it a couple nights ago she was like holy shit there are a lot of famous people in this movie. Did you, when you were casting, did you have a consciousness about where you felt like these people were going? I know it's impossible to predict that, but there's just, you know, an absurd number of people who went on to become very famous. I think when you're casting, you just cast the best people for the role. And you, and in this particular case, there's also sometimes people that look like the drawings. I really wanted them to look like the people in the comic. But then within that, there are also people that are relatively new that you're like,

I mean, I actually found my casting notes the other day. And, you know, and I found what I'd written by people and one of them like anna kendrick it said i'd written next to her i said we'd be lucky to have her she's amazing hire her i remember like also brie larson i remember like showing her like um you know because she was 19 and i remember showing her like video to donna langley and I remember saying to Donna Langley, she's going to be huge. I know it, like that. She's going to be like a megastar.

But you could tell that about people that they were... I mean, I guess Chris Evans was already reasonably established because he'd already by that point been in Fantastic Four. But I still think he was kind of like an untapped resource in the sense of, at the point when I cast him, I thought Chris Evans was always good in not necessarily very

good movies. Like he was always the bright spot in a movie that otherwise might be a bit wonky, but he was always good. And I thought, and when his, I think I, maybe I suggested him, but I thought like, oh, I like this Chris Evans guy. Cause he's always seems to be the bright spot in some average movies. No disrespect. I think he's probably say the same thing himself at the time, but really good timing. And, um,

you know, like, and then in person, he's like really funny and personable and super charming. And like, and, and I, I knew,

I knew that he was like having a blast and he was really he's like a comedy nerd chris so like he was like even though you know kind of he seems a bit more jockish just by his kind of like his presence it was just like a treat to see him hanging out and joking around with jason schwartzman and michael. And I just thought, this is a beautiful thing. It's like just watching these guys hang out whilst we were like training, doing gym training every morning. That's another thing I remember very fondly is training with everybody at eight o'clock in the morning during prep was like amazing and hilarious, you know? So yeah, so the cast, I think sort of like, you know,

I mean, you don't really know in terms of like, so but I mean, when I when I watch it now, you just think, wow, look at all these people. I mean, you know, I think in some cases, they're people that were already that funny then. And it's like, you're waiting for the public to catch up. Like Kieran is, is and was that funny. And like, so it just needs the right part for him to kind of like really like break through with succession or something. Or Aubrey Plaza very quickly sort of was, I think she actually, Scott Pilgrim was the first thing she ever booked. Wow. But she was in New York and she was, I want to say she was doing UCB stuff.

Brilliant casting directors, Alison Jones, Jen Houston and Robin Cook in LA, New York and Toronto, respectively. I remember Aubrey Plaza came in. She was really funny. Scott Pilgrim was the first thing she ever booked. And then before the movie had actually come out, she'd already booked funny people in parks and recreation. So she was one of the people who sort of like... And sometimes it's like getting another job gets you other jobs. It's like, oh, Aubrey's just been cast in Scott Pilgrim vs. the World.

And then before that movie's even out, she's got a bunch of other parts and stuff. But some of these people are just really... film versus the world and then before that movie's even out she's got a bunch of other parts and stuff but like you know some of these people are just like really and some of them I think are people

who are still sort of like great actors that are still waiting for that role to really I mean like Johnny Simmons

is somebody who I think is hilarious in the movie and brilliant and I you know I'm waiting for

the right kind of part for him to kind of like for me to cast him again or for somebody else to realize how brilliant he is, you know. Yeah, I thought about that when you mentioned Alan Wong, too. There's a handful of people I'm like, man, this person is incredible in this movie. And, you know, knowing that Brie and Chris and all these other folks went on to such stardom, like you, they all feel kind of wellited to a massive role, which is kudos to the casting directors and you for putting all those people in that movie.

I love seeing Alan Wong in Glow. I think she's fantastic in it. Hopefully, there'll be much more to come from her. She's brilliant. I love working with her. All of the people in it, I would love to work with again

if I found the right part. Were there things that you saw in your head when you were developing the movie that you weren't actually able to pull off that just couldn't work? Not quite, actually. I actually would say that unusually with this movie, I think I already had kind of an ambitious vision in my head for what it was. And I think we actually put it on screen and i think in some cases it went beyond that and that's down to sort of the contributions of like people like bill pope or brad allen the stunt coordinator who the first time we're working with him who just you know um brad does amazing works and like he'll sort of take something on the page and make it 10 times

more spectacular and complicated. And sometimes that's too much or it's great that you just can't do it. And I think with the end fight, Brad had a thing. He had this stunt video, concept video, based on the story. It was seven minutes of seven minutes long and I was like Brad this is amazing but what's the three and a half if you had to do the three and a half minute greatest hits of this scene what would it be because I said not that this isn't amazing but I don't have the time or the money to do it you know like so but in terms of what we plan to do I think we we did it basically and um there was what there was one thing that was in the original scripts, which we never shot, which was funny,

because it was also in Brian Lee O'Malley's original outline for the books, and then he didn't do it either. So I think we abandoned it because it was something. But at one point in the final fight, Gideon was going to become like a massive robot, like a sort of like a, you know, Toho style, like Mecha Gideon. And we boarded that bit and everything. And it was going to be that, you know,

Gideon's final form was going to be like a robot and Scott and Knives were going to like sort of dismantle the robot. But we didn't do that. I mean, I think that was a good thing. I think the actual, the way the end fight plays out is much better, you know. I just have a couple more. I don't want to take up too much of your time,. I think the actual, the way the end fight plays out is much better. You know, I just have a couple more.

I don't want to take up too much of your time, but I want to talk about the music. Cause I've been listening to the soundtrack a bit this week and it's so good. And it also feels in some ways like it was recorded like a hundred years ago because even garage rock has kind of that, that moment has kind of come and gone just a little bit. So can you just tell me maybe how Nigel came on and how you guys conceived of

the music and what you talked about to get it going? Yeah. Um, we, um, Nigel had been, uh, who's an amazing, uh, incredible music producer and musician. Um, we were already friends and, uh, I, uh, he'd never done a score before. and i asked him if he wanted to do the music for scott pilgrim and he was really interested and wanted to do it and part of that was about kind of producing the songs because i thought if i asked a real music producer then it would sound really authentic and then he suggested you know beyond doing the score he suggested i

think you know the best thing to do would be to find different artists to play the different bands and get them to do the songs and leave them to their own devices to do them. Thereby, everything will sound unique to itself. It won't sound like it's got one house style. And so together, we figured out who was going to do what and in the case of like you know because we were going to be in Toronto like sort of metric and broken social scene were both like still are like you know like really important Canadian bands from Toronto so that was kind of a no-brainer to get them involved but it was Nigel's idea to get Beck involved I mean I was a big beck fan but i didn't really think of him initially and um i think we've been talking

thinking about other bands i knew we talked about other sort of bands that were in that kind of like sort of vein like black lips and um who ended up on the soundtrack anyway and there was another band called be your own pet which i really liked. Oh, I loved them. They had a female lead singer, right? They did, Jemima Pearl. And I remember that we were supposed to meet them. And we got in touch with their management. And they said, oh, they're coming to LA next month. And they'd love to talk about it.

And then before the meeting, I then got another message from the manager that says, oh, they've broken up. So Be Your Own they've broken up. So be your own bet and broken up. So, you know, and so Nigel was the one who said, what about Beck? Beck, actually, this is the kind of music that he started out making. This is like sort of, you know, this is so in his wheelhouse, even though he doesn't necessarily do this kind of style anymore. This is how he started. He'd be like, perfect.

And he was absolutely right. And so Beck was interested. And then Beck, I don't think Beck necessarily read the script, but we gave him the books. And basically he said, oh, can you just give me an outline of, you know, what the scenes are and what's happening in them and what the general vibe is. And let me see how I come up with. know what the scenes are and what's happening in them and what the general vibe is and um and let

me see how i come up with so he had a he was living in hancock park at the time and he had a studio in his garage and uh literally garage rock and had an eight track something a four track maybe it was a four track actually um and he um, like we gave him like the sort of the list of the songs and the scenes. And then we printed out the artwork from the books of Sex with Mom, like massive and took it around to his place. And he said, okay, leave it with me. And then maybe about like, um, 72 hours later, Nigel called me and says,x got a CD for us and the CD was like 32 tracks long a CD are 32 tracks and me and Nigel drove around LA

listening to it and it was basically the Sex With Mom songs sort of done and you know it's exactly what you hear in the film. And he'd done it just him and this other and one of his band members, Brian Labartin. The two of them had just like knocked out all of these demos with lyrics. And, you know, we picked the ones we wanted for the film. And he even done the little Ramona acoustic thing. And Nigel sort of said he goes I don't see any like point in doing anything more with them because you know that that is what Sex Bob-Omb themselves would be able to do you know it's exactly what it says on the tin like

you know maybe we do some mastering but I don't there's no point in re-recording them that's what it is so the music that you hear in the movie is done in Beck's garage, like sometimes in one take. The music that opens the movie that goes over the opening credits theme from Sex of a Mom is Beck and Brian Labartin thrashing out one take of that jam. And you can sort of tell because in the song, they're sort of like changing rhythms and sort of like

wildly improvising but it's something sort of I think that's why it feels so real because it is and there was no like sort of second take of that you know at all

and then the same with like Garbage Truck and Threshold and No Fun like sort of you know it's the way that he kind of summertime

like he sort of like knocked out these like perfect little two minute garage rock songs. It was amazing. Yeah. I love it. I still love listening to it. When you're, when you're approached by fans, what, what line is quoted to you most often from this movie? Oh my God. That's a good question. I guess the one that sort of become the most memeable is bread makes you fat. Yep. That's the one. I guess that's the one.

Garlic bread is my favorite food. I could honestly eat it for every meal or just eat it all the time without even stopping. You get fat. No, why would I get fat? Bread makes you fat. Bread makes you fat? You know, but then you, people say random things like sort of uh i met like sean white the kind of snowboarder once and i and he said he goes you director scott

palmer rest of the world and then he just said the acoustics in here are amazing quite a random line to quite back at you which would make me very happy that somebody said that that's a great one um so everybody wants to know could a sequel to this movie ever happen um at 10 years later what do you think about that i don't know what that would be i mean especially 10 years later i i don't want to you know like i don't think if in all honesty i really kind of thought at the time, like, you know, like probably in the back of my head, I even, even though I wasn't like, so I was hoping the film would do well, I probably sort of like thought that it was probably just a one and done

movie. You know, I mean, there are like, you know, like Brian, here's the thing is that Brian did six books. And I think at the time some fans were like, why didn't you do a whole series? Why didn't you just do one? And my thinking was in a way was like, well, let's do one whilst we can.

There's no guarantee that there'll be more. I didn't want to be one of those movies that like sort of does a first part of which there is no second part, you know? So it was better to sort of kind of do something where you know the film was like sort of a an adventure that you can enjoy all in one go and if you want to read more adventures here's the books so um i don't really know what a sequel is that said is that you know we have been actively talking about doing something in an animation form that is like an expansion of the,

um, the film and the books. So that might be something that gets announced, uh, soon, but I don't, I don't think that there's like a, I mean,

I think also, I don't know if the studio would make, make a, make a sequel, like, um, you know, like,

uh, anyway, so I don't know. That's a good question. I don't have an answer to that one. I mean, I'm sure... It's one of those things that even though at the time

when it came out, it was like sort of, you know, kind of like sort of everybody was disappointed with how much it made domestically at the time. But it's that thing where it very quickly

seemed to sort of pick up sort of a cult following in the sense that, you know, it very quickly seemed to sort of pick up sort of a cult following in the sense that, you know, it never really left theaters. Like Prince that was sort of circulating in 2010 quickly sort of went on to like a midnight circuit and like, and it's still out there. So, and it sort of went into kind of rep immediately, which was kind of really nice. And so, and then, you know, it's that thing where you can sort of tell like that went into kind of rep immediately, which was kind of really nice.

And so, and then, you know, it's that thing where you can sort of tell like that something is kind of like, is, you know, there are some films that are like much bigger hits that like maybe make $100 million plus on their first like domestically. And then once they've hit kind of like

DVD and VOD and cable, they're never, they never graced the big screen ever again, or their films. There were some films that were hits in that year that people like never talk about anymore. And the nice thing with Scott Pilgrim is that never really happened. It's sort of like, sort of, I think because it was a sort of more of a sleeper cult success, people still talk about it. People still discover it. And,

um, and you know, you can sort of tell by the amount of time to get reissued with different covers or the, you know, the amount of merchandising that sort of like keeps, keeps on coming that like, um,

you know, it, it, that's a very pleasing thing. I don't know if I need to sort of like, um, uh, I definitely don't like wake up in the middle of the night saying,

I must make a sequel to Scott Pilgrim. I'd rather, the feeling I have when I watch it now, that there's this beautifully preserved moment in time with these amazing young actors being brilliant in their like sort of twenties. Like, I think that's the feeling I always want to have about Scott Pilgrim is that like, you know, I want to return to it in 20 years time from now and go,

Oh my God, look at how young we all were. Look at this. This is amazing. Well, these amazing people in the same movie. So, you know,

like there's, there's no reason to ruin that. Like, so everything needs to have a sequel. Yeah, no, that makes sense. I think part of the reason I even wanted to talk to you

is because I remember when the film was released and loving it when it first came out, but also observing that it didn't do as well at the box office as some people wanted. And it felt like the first time you could sense a movie was becoming a cult classic in real time. Like the day after it came out, it felt like it had taken on that mantle.

Did you guys feel that way? It did feel a little bit like that. I think the thing was, is that we were really proud of it. And also, it had got good reviews in the sense of like, you know, it wasn't like it was massively divisive. It was like 80, even 81 on Rotten Tomatoes is pretty good going. So like, it wasn't like it was a hugely divisive. It was like 80, even 81 on Rotten Tomatoes is, is, is pretty good going. So like, it wasn't like it was a hugely divisive movie.

It was just literally like, you just had to convince people to see it and get the word out there. Uh, that like, um, you know, and I think that was something that was down to, you know,

people always in interviews always wanted me to throw marketing under the bus. And I would never do that because the marketing department they worked really hard on the movie and also Michael Moses who was you know who is the head of marketing you know it's his favorite movie he ever worked on and like he he kind of um you know like uh I think he was working as hard as we were to try and figure out a way to sell it to like a general public. But sometimes the things just take time, you know, like, and I think the thing that we did is we were really proud of the movie and proud of the response of it,

even though it hadn't caught fire commercially. So I think the thing was is that, here's the thing, usually if a film is like a flop and people are embarrassed about it, everybody runs from the hills and sort of disowns it or like never really talks about it again or quietly takes it off their resume. And usually that's the case. So if a film has done that, then like sort of like none of the cast or the crew would even do DVD press

for the movie, let alone do a little press tour or do Q&As and stuff. And I think there's a fact that is that myself and the cast kept doing press for the movie long after it had come out. Even when the DVD came out, we did a mini press tour. We did like, I remember we did like another like four or five cities in the States, promoting the DVD and doing signings in New York, Boston, Toronto, LA,

somewhere else as well, maybe Austin. But it was something where we were proud of it and we just wanted to keep getting the word out. So I think that was one of the reasons that, like you said, it felt like it very quickly very quickly became like a cult movie is because we weren't embarrassed about it. We were just, we knew that it was about still getting the word out. And, um, and that was something that was going to be take longer than the first three days of release. Uh, you've been generous with your time. We end every episode of this show

by asking filmmakers, what's the last great thing they've seen. I know you've been generous with your time. We end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing they've seen. I know you've been watching a lot during quarantine. What have you been liking lately? Oh, my God. I know this massive, I've literally been writing this list of films I watched for the first time during quarantine. So, like, it's just enormous.

I don't even know where to start. Pick a letter and I'll pick something from the output. I mean, I could rattle off the films I've watched for the first time, but it would take another half an hour. Hang on a second. Let me see if I can find something that

really knocked me out that I've been watching recently. Usually, I've been watching a lot of Max Ophuls films, which I had seen a couple before, but not all of them. And so I've been like, he's a director that I wasn't previously too aware of beyond his name.

And then watching them, I'm like, Oh my God, where have these films been all my life? And so I've been really taken with his work. The the camera movement right he's got all the incredible camera movement yeah they all look like kind of they're so intricate and ornate you feel like you're looking at a wedding cake or like a sort of like a clock but I was already sort of watching like um the earrings of madame de dot dot dot and, dot, and Letter from an Unknown Woman,

and La Ronde, and La Plessie. And I was just like, oh my God, look at this. This is incredible. So he's one of the many. But I've been watching tons of movies that I have never seen before, which has been amazing. It's been one of the nice things about this lockdown.

Edgar, you know, I love Scott Pilgrim vs. the World, and I appreciate you chatting with me about it today. Thank you. Thanks for the appreciation. I appreciate it. And on behalf of me and the cast, it's very nice, the sort of

love that's out there for the movie that has sort of continued to this day. It's something that, like I said, in 10 years' time, I want to watch it again and go something that, like I said, I hope in 10 years time, I want to watch it again and go, oh, wow, how did we do that? Right on. Thank you, man.

Thank you to Jason, to Van, to Edgar Wright, to producer Bobby Wagner. Thanks again for listening to The Big Picture. If you enjoyed this chat, we're going to be talking more about other movies released in the year 2010 later this week. Please tune in. My best hope My best hope