The Big Picture - Do the Oscars Need 'Star' Power—and 'Black Panther'—to Thrive? | The Oscars Show (Ep. 102)

Episode Date: November 27, 2018

Can 'Black Panther' and 'A Star Is Born' power through an onslaught of smaller, highly regarded films like 'Roma,' and 'The Favourite'? (0:57); stock up/stock down for 'Green Book' and 'Widows' (22:00); and a close look at an unusually competitive Best Actress race (34:45). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, the latest addition to the Ringer Podcast Network is Winging It with Vince Carter, Kent Bazemore, and Annie Finberg of the Atlanta Hawks. Vince and Kent are going off script to offer a behind-the-scenes look at what NBA players think and talk about when their minds aren't on the court, covering everything from sports, news, and pop culture. The first episode drops December 3rd, but you can subscribe now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture,

a conversation show about the Oscars. If I watch as I dive in, I'll never meet the ground. Crash through the surface when they can't hurt us. We're far from the shallow now. Amanda, we're going to jump right into the Big Picture's Big Picture this week because there are so many movies to talk about. We are at the height of the season and the show has now gone weekly. It's happening. It's happening. So here's where we're starting. Is it bad for the Oscars if smaller films dominate? Now, this is something that came about very aggressively, I think, right around the time of Moonlight. Moonlight's win over La La Land set the stage for this complication around what happens when a movie that has had a fairly

small audience overwhelms a movie like La La Land, which had a huge audience. You know, there's precedent for it. The Hurt Locker beating Avatar is obviously a very notable example of this. This year is a very, very, very keen example of this potential issue for the Oscars. We've talked about Black Panther a little bit on this show. We've talked about A Star is Born a lot on this show. Those are the two front runners, I think, at the moment for films that have been released. Yes. There's more movies coming. The first of those movies opened on Friday. It's called The Favorite. Did you just look at me?

Did you? Look at me! Look at me! How dare you! Close your eyes! And then later in December, another movie that we've talked about quite a bunch, Roma. And then right at the same time as that, If Beale Street Could Talk, Barry Jenkins' new film. All of these movies, I think that comprises five of maybe the seven or eight

leading contenders right now. Now, the favorite, Roma and Beale Street, are not big movies. In fact, they're basically arthouse films. And they don't have movie stars. They won't have big box office. And I guess with the exception of Emma Stone. I was going to say, that's very rude to Emma Stone and also justice for Rachel Weisz, but continue.

Apologies to them. Nevertheless, this is probably the strangest film either one of them has made. And I do think that there's going to be a lot of love and a lot of appreciation for these movies. And that may take some of the appreciation away from A Star is Born and Black Panther. And there's all this anxiety about the ratings for the show. There's all this anxiety about the future of the Oscars, maybe some of which is probably self-created by people like you and I. Nevertheless, do you think it matters if the Oscars doesn't have big stars and big movies at the forefront of the race? Well, there's a difference between the forefront of the race and winning the race. We should talk a lot about this.

And let's go back even further. Can we go back to the 2008 Oscars? Sure. Which were, until last year, the lowest rated Oscars in history. No Country for Old Men won. Among the nominees were There Will Be Blood

and Michael Clayton. Three of the greatest movies. Also, by the way, Atonement was nominated. Please put some respect on Joe Wright's name. All four of those movies are wonderful.

Right. So it was a great, great year at the movies and no one cared because those were all smallish movies. And that is kind of where the modern Oscars crisis starts. That and the next year, Dark Knight not being nominated. And so when we're talking about these things, I think we're always talking about the shadow of those Oscars and no one watched it because no one had ever heard of the movies. And I think that that is a trap.

And we need to not think about the 2008 Oscars ever again. Because here's why. The amount of things that have changed in Hollywood, in the film industry, in the television industry, in live shows, in how you watch things, in tastes, in the voting block, literally everything under the sun has changed so dramatically since 2008 that you can't compare them. And the ratings for the Oscars are never going to be as high as they were 10 years ago because the ratings for nothing are as high as they were 10 years ago. So I don't think that we have to have the Dark Knight or Black Panther win in order to save the Oscars. And I think that a lot of anyone who thinks that way is like not thinking clearly. But can we go back to, can we have an

Oscars where you haven't heard of anything? I don't know. So it is kind of a middle ground. You need people, probably Black Panther needs to be nominated. Probably you need one or two movie stars. Probably you should be more respectful of Emma Stone because people have heard of her. I love Emma Stone. I literally love her. You do need points of interest. But I just don't think this idea of blockbusters will save us and blockbusters will get us back to the ratings and we can never have the 2008 Oscars again applies at all just because audiences are different and the movies are different. You're absolutely right. I agree with everything that you're saying. It's notable that the,

you know, the decision that they made immediately after those two Oscars that struggled so much in the ratings was to expand the nominee pool to 10 films originally and then to as many as 10 films a year later. That Avatar big Hurt Locker race that I mentioned was one of the highest rated races. James Cameron movies being nominated for Best Pictures typically portends huge ratings because a lot of people will go see Jim Cameron movies. I'll be curious to see what happens when that second Avatar movie comes out. Right. If he makes his way back. I mean, will there be an Oscars?

Will there be another of those movies? Will we have television by the time that all happens? I don't know. It's a new world, okay? It's a new world. And we are but young Navi. And I think I'm really fascinated to see. Black Panther, I'm fairly certain will be nominated. A Star is Born, I know will be nominated. And that probably will be enough. I think that the latter will be a front runner and the former will be a, hey, be happy to be here, which is condescending, but does tend to happen. And it's good when things like that happen. A couple of years ago, I wrote about how I thought it would have been fun just to see Deadpool in the slate of Best Picture nominees, even though it had no chance.

Because it would have indicated something about how the Academy was evolving. Now, to your point about how much things have changed, the other thing that has changed is not just how movies and TV are received or how we view live events, but the composition of the voting body. And, you know, there has been some conversation about how the evolving voting body, especially becoming younger and much more diverse, means movies like Moonlight have a much better chance to not only run, but win. We got a little bit of like a false paradigm there when the two emerging contenders last year were Three Billboards Outside of Ebbing, Missouri and The Shape of Water. Last year was such a disaster. Can we just, I was thinking about this. What a mess. So many great movies. And again, smaller movies, Phantom Thread, Lady Bird. Darkest Hour.

Darkest, well, yeah. Okay. But I do love Joe Wright. So there was a really fun year with the movies and then we were arguing about those two for a year. See, the real missed opportunity, though, to me, and that kind of circles the square on this conversation, is Dunkirk and Get Out. Those were the two movies that are probably going to be best remembered from last year, and those are the two biggest movies that were nominated for Best Picture. Wow, you're giving me a look.

I just, Lady Bird will be remembered. Okay. Sure, but significantly, a fraction of the number of people in the world have seen that film. That's true. And so relative to those merits, you know,

Get Out obviously was a cultural experience. Dunkirk was a big, big hit about a historical event. So those movies tend to be memorialized. I think Lady Bird

in your home will be memorialized. And on the internet. And on the internet. No disrespect to Lady Bird, also a film I love. But there is something interesting about this

and I want to talk about it in the context of these other movies that I'm talking about. So the favorite and Roma and Beale street, all of which I think are quite good. They kind of exist in this paradigm, this, this frame that certain movies have, which is like, it's kind of a tough sit. And that's like, that's a buzzword that you hear a little bit from Academy voters. And the tough sit is what it sounds like. It's just tough to sit through the whole thing. And that's obviously a very rude and thoughtless you know way to approach films especially if you're an academy voter but the truth is and we see this every year when the trades publish their anonymous

voters talking about what movies they did and didn't like a lot of these people are thoughtless and you have to you have to use that way of looking at the world to understand how these the oscars turn out so in that context out of of The Favourite and Roma and Beale Street, and I know you haven't seen Beale Street yet. Yes. You know, what do you see in terms of the tough sit this year? And also just how do you feel generally about those kinds of movies in the Oscar race? Well, I think it's rude.

And I think it's also in this case kind of misapplied because The Favourite is really funny and is actually fun. And, you know, it's funny. I was having a conversation with Shea Serrano after I saw The Favorite and I was like, yo, I saw this movie last night and I really liked it. Let me tell you about it. And I was like, so it's about Queen Anne. And he was like, I'm out. Which, fair enough. And there will be a whole bunch of people who think, okay, it's a period piece, like, over my dead body. Not to put you on the spot, but in any other year, you would probably be, like, over my dead body. It would be the last one that I would go see.

Yeah, which is, that's fine. And the first that I would go see. And it turns out to, yes, have some Philly costumes, but be weird and unexpected and funny and kind of watchable in a way that you might not expect. Or it's a different type of watch than what it appears on the surface. So. Yeah, this isn't the Danish girl. Yeah. But I think probably. Well, and then I mean, it's just I feel so uncomfortable putting Roma and Tuff sit in the same sentence and it's really hurtful, but it's a foreign film. You know, subtitles, a lot of people are just like, okay, I'm out.

Yeah, let us be explicit about this. I don't think either one of us are saying that these movies are a tough sit. No, I know. I just, you know. In fact, they're not. They're not. They're great films. But that is how a certain population of the voting group

is going to perceive them. Or it's not what they want to reward in some ways, at least a traditional, particularly older, often white set of voters. You know, only 10 foreign films have been nominated for Best Picture ever in the history of the Oscars. Think about the number of foreign film masterpieces that we've had in the history of cinema and only 10 have been nominated for Best Picture. So something like Roma Happening would not only be historic, it reveals a kind of a lack of evolution in the way that the body votes.

So, you know, continue about Roma. Right. The other interesting thing here is the whole Netflix narrative, which I think it's very complicated and that has pluses and minuses for Roma and its chances. But I think kind of takes it out of the genre of, I don't really feel like watching that because there is this whole fight about what should cinema be and what do we reward and how should we watch it? Which is, I mean, I have found sort of exhausting. But there are a lot of people and particularly people in the industry who have a lot writing on how films are distributed and received.

I might be one of them. Yeah. Well, who feel who feel very strongly about it. And so I think that won't be Roma's problem. Tuff's it won't ultimately be the thing that keeps it from competing because there is this much higher profile narrative. So one of the reasons, and this is interesting, and I don't know if I've seen this point made before. And if I have, I apologize for stealing it. But a lot of Academy voters don't go to the movies.

They receive screeners and they watch the screeners and then they vote from there. So your movie has to be big for it to work because it has to hold your attention at home. Now, of course, the irony of this is Roma is not only big, but it is designed to be shown at home. And so even still, it's a foreign film, which people struggle with in the modern age because they're always looking at their second screens. So there's this interesting kind of friction between the experience of like, well, Roma should be for your home, but it's great on a big screen, but voters don't like to vote for foreign films because they watch them at home and they don't pay attention. And all of that noise around it makes it so interesting because I do think that there's a credible case for this movie as the front runner

of the race, that it does the most great things the best, for lack of a better phrase. And nevertheless, I think theflix of it all as you say could really undermine it or it could help it and cuaron has kind of been recognized already as as a great filmmaker so that's also kind of working against it i don't know i'm really fascinated to see how that plays out we're obviously going to keep talking about it because it comes out december 14th the other movie that's coming out december 14th is if beale street could talk barry jenkins very beautiful adaptation of a James Baldwin novel set in Harlem in the early 70s. And it's a quiet and intimate movie. And I don't think that that

is going to necessarily bring enough people to the table. That being said, Moonlight was a quiet and intimate movie. And it did that. That's true. I think the release date for Beale Street is a real problem because Moonlight came out in October and it had a lot of, you know, there's the very famous A.O. Scott review of just being like, this is the film of the year, which I do really kind of think kickstarted a long tale of people seeking out that movie and evangelizing about it. And Beale Street just doesn't have that kind of time. It's two months later. It's interesting. It was supposed to originally come out on November 27th, and they moved it. Or maybe November 23rd, something like that.

And they moved the date. And it's a funny thing. You know, the December movies, with the rare exception of your sort of American snipers, they don't get nominated as much. And that kind of leads into a couple of more conversations we'll be having next month about Vice and Mary Poppins Returns, the two sort of unseen

remaining big time contenders. And, you know, Beale Street could fall, could fall victim to just that kind of lateness that you're talking about, which is a strange thing. And also just not just the lateness of like people not seeing it on time,

but the lateness of the lack of the narrative building that you're describing, which is such a huge part of this stuff, right? Especially for a smaller movie, you just, you need a breakout of some kind. You need a way to get people's attention um and the crowded December season

it just kind of I don't know we'll see it seems a little late I want to talk about Green Book in this context too but let's wait a minute because the one thing about this and the idea of stardom and stariness at the Oscars is I don't think the Oscars is what we used to think it was. Like, George Clooney is not going to the Oscars this year. Julia Roberts barring a nomination for Ben is Back is probably not going to the Oscars. The version of Hollywood that we tend to memorialize on shows like The Rewatchables, in the tabloids,

like, that is kind of gone. Yeah, because the movie stars are gone. Yeah. Because, you know, and this has been written about ad nauseum, but the idea that all of the most popular movies right now, superhero movies, they're about IP and franchises and you're there to see Spider-Man. You're not there to see. Wow, I'm blanking on his name. Yeah. Andrew Garfield?

Who's the adorable new one? Tom Holland? Right. He's adorable. Yeah, but I could literally couldn't remember his name and I do this for a living. Well, Andrew Garfield. Who's the adorable new one? Tom Holland. Right. He's adorable. Yeah. But I could literally couldn't remember his name. And I do this for a living. The new Spider-Man is Shameik Moore in the new Spider-Man animated movie.

But the kind of traditional star making vehicles that used to dominate Hollywood and to an extent the Oscars just don't exist anymore. We make big movies a different way. And so actors are not famous. And yeah, and we haven't had those in 20 years. So it's George Clooney and Julia Roberts are still the examples that we use, but there's not a new generation in the same way. There are exceptions to every rule, and I think we'll talk about some of them. But it's just, again, it's kind of the same thing as the movies. There are so many and so many different options.

It's hard to be famous unless you're a Kardashian. When I think about the Oscars in the 50s and 60s and 70s and just stuff I've watched over the years on YouTube and things like that, you did get the sense, though, that it was almost like the Friars Club where kind of everybody from every generation was coming out to support it. And not everyone was there, but you would see Cary Grant and Spencer Tracy in the audience in the 50s, even if they weren't nominated. And there was this expectation that it was a community gathering to take care of itself, to reward itself, to, you know, prop itself up.

And I does feel like there's a little bit of dissonance because Hollywood is so diffuse now and because TV and movies have been, you know, blending together over the years. There's just a lack of specialness around the Oscars. You're right, though, that I think we could find that Michael B. Jordan, who's probably the single biggest movie star who has emerged in the last couple of years. Certainly this year. Emma Stone, Ryan Gosling, Emily Blunt, Melissa McCarthy,

famous directors like Spike Lee, all of those people could be nominated. And that will create interest and attention and a little bit of narrative, I suppose. But for whatever reason, and maybe it's just my age creeping on me, I feel like there's something missing from that. There's something, and it's like, maybe it's because the George Clooney's aren't going to be there. And, you know, Brad Pitt is not going to be there. Angelina Jolie is not going to be there. Like all Jolie is not going to be there. Like all these people that we used to think of as a part of this firmament are not, are

probably not there. That's very true. Meryl will still be there. That's true. Because of Mary Poppins. Yes. And people are saying Meryl might be nominated for like one scene in Mary Poppins Returns. Is that real?

I mean, they do it a lot. She probably will be nominated for a Golden Globe. Oh my God. Okay. Because it's Meryl, and you've got to get Meryl to show up. I mean, that certainly is the strategy at the Golden Globes, which is kind of more celebrity-based anyway. It's TV and movies, the round tables, the booze. You're there to just watch people hang out.

And so the Golden Globes will do all kinds of things. I don't know. Lady Gaga is pretty famous. She's really famous. She'll be there. Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper, that is will do all kinds of things. I don't know. Lady Gaga is pretty famous. She's really famous. She'll be there. Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper, that is probably the starring attraction of this telecast.

But I don't know. Is Lady Gaga like, were you fired up when Lady Gaga won a Golden Globe for American Horror Story? I was fired up when Leonardo DiCaprio was in the room and gave her this single most iconic side eye of all time, which still gets shared.

It's true. That was a good moment. Yeah. No, but I just didn't care about American Horror Story. And also, this is kind of a reinvention for me with Lady Gaga. I didn't really care about her before. And then she was in A Star Is Born, which, man, still a great movie. I was listening to Shallow the other day.

So I do think in general, we're forgetting about the star power and the blockbusteriness of a star is born because it was a few months ago and i think um once the golden globes come up we'll be reminded of that and it may feel a little glitzier and a little more hollywood than it currently does we're in the real rush out all the indie movies and go see them like three a day definitely face of the oscars and i think perhaps you and i have and the oscar watching community have lost some perspective yeah here's the thing um this is inside baseball and i don't mind sharing it i saw four movies yesterday and i'm supposed to see nine this week okay so that's in an effort to see everything

but it's unreasonable and i am literally just an editor and a writer and a podcaster trying to figure out how to talk about all of these things. So I think if you're trying to be a significant and sincere Academy voter or critic voting in one of these critics polls or a member of the Hollywood Foreign Press Association or whatever, there's actually quite a burden of time to devote to watching all these goddamn movies. Right. Well, two key things there. Number one, the word sincere, two key things there. Number one, the word sincere, which applies to you. And I'm also trying, but as you pointed out. You're really embracing it. It's fun.

You know what's great? Movies, because they end, unlike television shows. Shout out to movies. Love movies. Anyway, so I don't think as we learn, as you pointed out in the Hollywood Reporter Anonymous ballots or whatever, most people are not being as sincere about this. That's unfair. That's actually I should not question the motivations of anyone voting because it's a lot. But I don't know that every single voter sees nine or 13 movies in a week as you do because it's just a lot. It's too much.

And people have jobs and responsibilities and other stuff. They don't have jobs. These people don't have jobs. I mean, I suppose that's true. I guess so. I know what you're saying. I think it's one of the reasons why, and maybe we should devote an entire episode to this next month, that I'm starting to think that A Star is Born is going to sweep across the board because Wow Wow write the date down this movie flatters all of the things

that those people want and you don't have to work that hard to love that movie but we said that about La La Land you're right

you're right yeah before we get to stock up stock down let's take a quick break to hear a word from our sponsor today's episode

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Because I'm the only one standing between you and a bullet in your head. What I've learned from men like your late husband and my father is that you reap what you sow. Let's hope so. Let's go to the next segment, okay, Amika? Okay, yes. This segment, of course, is called Stock Up, Stock Down. I mentioned that we would talk a little bit about Green Book.

We'll also talk about Widows. Two interesting movies. Not necessarily two sides of the same coin, but perhaps two of the same identity issues, quagmires about modern cinema. Yes. Let's start with Green Book. Green Book, I thought, was going to be a big hit.

So did I. We talked about it. The crowd pleaser. Did not please the crowds. It did not please the crowds. And I don't totally know why that is. I really thought this was kind of the perfect movie for people to go see in

Thanksgiving. Now, it's not in complete full-blown wide release yet, but in its sort of like mini wide release that it had over the Thanksgiving weekend, it did not perform that well. And in addition to that, it has kind of come under fire in a way that we expected, which is that this is a movie made about a white man and a black man in the 60s, made by a white guy, written by three white guys.

Yes. So. And the star of the movie is the white guy. Without question. Yes. Even though this is a Mahershala Ali podcast forever, and his performance in this movie, I think is quite good. It's definitely a movie about Viggo Mortensen's character, Tony Lip.

I'm kind of fascinated by its quote-unquote failure. Because originally, I think, as I said, I thought this was going to be a little bit like Driving Miss Daisy. But with a little bit more modern context, a little bit smarter about some of this stuff. And weirdly, it feels like it's starting to become kind of the flip side of Three Billboards. Yes. Do you agree with that? Yeah, I do. Because there are a lot of parallels.

Green Book won the People's Choice Award at Toronto, as did three billboards. And I think also, you know, we'll talk a little bit more about its future chances, but one thing to keep in mind is that the Golden Globe nominations are announced next week. And Green Book will be competing as a comedy.

And the Golden Globes are decided by the Hollywood Foreign Press. Toronto also they're just to our north but technically also foreign and I think yes it's an international group of people and I do think that Green Book will have a slight resurgence when we're just talking about how these awards things work. Whether it should is a different conversation. And then also whether further backlash or further discussion, I shouldn't call it backlash. That's completely unfair. Whether further discussion, which it merits, continues, is almost guaranteed. So I don't really think it's over for Green Book at all. I do think, you know, it's funny, we both thought it would be a crowd pleaser. And then we also talked a lot about how bad the trailer is and how the trailer really does look like the worst possible version

of this movie. And I guess people saw the trailer and were like, nah, I'm not going to go see that. Yeah. The trailer was like made by Nancy Meyers' woke step-nephew or something. Like it was just really hokey. Yeah. And parts of the movie are very hokey and cheery. Yes. But that wasn't my feeling while watching the movie. No, I think that it does kind of, it rounds out the characters and somewhat, I should say.

It just, it becomes a movie about friendship. In addition to a movie about a white man learning that racism is bad. It is becomes a movie about friendship in addition to a movie about a white man learning that racism is bad. It is still a movie about a white man learning that racism is bad. And I think you and I both thought those movies have traditionally done pretty well, both at the box office and at the Oscars. And I don't think that you and I expected that the audience had evolved this quickly. Maybe it has, which would be kind of remarkable. And maybe it'll bomb at the Oscars, which would actually be pretty remarkable. It's certainly plausible.

And I did not think that was the case five days ago. So we'll keep an eye on that. And, you know, I think we'll be talking about that movie a lot more as time goes on. You know, there's more to say. You know, Don Shirley's family came forward and said that parts of the way that his life were portrayed were inaccurate, that he actually had a relationship with his family, that he was an engaged African-American who understood the culture. There were some claims made against the veracity of the movie. We will get to a kind of response

campaign as a buzzword, I'm sure, later on as time goes by. That has evolved over time, the way that certain people respond to certain, particularly historical films. Yes. For the moment, we'll table it. And let's talk about Widows, which is a movie that you and I

both kind of flipped out over. Yes. I had Steve McQueen on the show about a week ago. Extremely charming, by the way. Please listen. Great, great guest. Great, smart, brilliant filmmaker.

And this movie also sort of underperformed. Let's try to unpack that a little bit. It sort of underperformed. Let's try to unpack that a little bit. It sort of underperformed. It made about $15 million in its opening weekend. It's like a $40 million movie. It's not a huge bomb. I just think that people thought it was going to be an event, especially when they saw it coming out of the festivals. Not unlike Green Book, but for different reasons. Because it represented a kind of new version of an old frame movie. You know, the stars, the leads were women, many women of color.

It redefined what a heist movie could be. But also on the fringes of that, it did something that I thought was very smart, which is it took these smaller roles and it filled it with familiar faces. I mean, Liam Neeson is literally one of the 20 most successful movie stars in the world right now. Yeah. And he's a huge part of this movie, even though he's not in it that much. Colin Farrell is in this movie.

He's top line to 20 plus movies. Brian Tyree Henry is probably the most interesting actor on television right now. He's in this movie. Yes. Daniel Kaluuya was an Oscar nominee last year. He's in this movie. Robert Duvall is one of the best living actors in the world. He's in this movie. There is an incredible dog in this movie. Oh, yeah. So if you take that plus Academy Award worthy performances from Viola Davis, from Elizabeth Debicki, you've got a breakout from Cynthia Erivo

and Steve McQueen who won Best Picture for 12 years. And don't forget Michelle Rodriguez who is the star of one of the most successful franchises of the

past decade. The Fast Queen. Yes. Nevertheless, this movie kinda disappointed. Why do you think that happened? I mean, bad taste.

No, I mean, I loved this movie. And I think it was just a really exhilarating movie going experience, which is why I was so surprised because we both walked out and we were like, wow, shout out to movies. It was exciting and it moves and it's it. It is not old fashioned, but it reminds you of it. It's that classic. They don't make those kinds of movies anymore. It was the same, but different. Yeah.

You know, it was released the Friday before Thanksgiving. And this is anecdotal, but I did see a lot of people taking their parents to see Widows over Thanksgiving and being like, wow, my parents did not like Widows. That was not, I think it's not as capital F fun. It's, you know, it deals with grief and politics and race. And there are a lot of ideas and gender and all of these things. And so it's not just like,

it's not Ocean's Eleven. Something I have been told by a couple of people in the industry that is interesting to me is that they feel like this movie didn't lean enough into the pulp that if they had given a little bit more time to the actual design of the heist and then the execution of the heist that it might have been received a little bit differently because what it does is I think it's this very subtle portrayal of how if you if real people were to do this to try to pull something like this off, it would be a little

messy and a little quiet and a little weird. It felt more like what a heist would actually be like as opposed to what Ocean's Eleven imagines it to be. And I think that people were pretty bummed out by that because they don't want realism in their pulp movie. Yeah, I think that makes sense. And I think there is just also, this is a hard one to market because- They didn't market it well. They didn't market it very well. I mean, it's hard because you have so many famous people as you just listed. So who do you pick, you know? And who do you, and how do you target to various audiences?

And do you put it as like a big Viola moment? Or do you put it together as a fun heist movie? Or do you, you know, I have talked a lot about how relieved I was that they didn't market this as like a girl power heist movie, but they should not have marketed it as a girl power heist movie because that's not what it is. But there is that thing of do you appeal to women because it is a women-led movie.

And there's so much going on that it's kind of hard to identify it as one thing. Yeah, I thought it was marketed very strangely. It was almost like they thought if you combine the two ethics of like den of thieves and fences, you know, that people would want to go see that movie. And partially that's because the kind of movie it is and partially that's because of who the stars are,

but it really did lean into this kind of grave, dark, sad approach. And the movie is grave and dark and sad at times, but it has a lot of other things. Yeah. And we just see, if you look at the poster, the poster is the strangest damn thing. It's like black and it's sliced into little fragments of humans.

And you can just see like a sliver of Viola and a sliver of Brian Tyree Henry. It's the strangest approach. And I feel like that also turned people away, made them think that this wasn't going to be, you know, it's not a corker per se, but it's got a lot of fun elements inside of it. And it also is meaningfully told.

It's a real shame. I don't think it's really going to be nominated for that much stuff. And we'll talk a little bit about Best Actress later in the show. But I thought even two weeks ago, it would just have more heat, and it does not have a lot

of heat it's such a shame it is also just a again a question of release date it was the weekend before Thanksgiving but it really did get swept into the Thanksgiving gauntlet and people just wanted to take their kids to movies this year I mean which is kind of that is the box office trend for the last few years it's just there's something you want to take your kids to, to the movies. And you can't take your kids to see Widows. Definitely not. And there's something obviously very triumphant about Creed 2, which did very well at the box office this weekend. And something fascinating about Ralph Breaks the Internet, Wreck-It Ralph 2, a movie that I would recommend to people.

And I would recommend they read Rob Barvillo's piece about it on The Ringer. But, you know, those two movies have virtually nothing to do with widows. And you're right. There's something there's something off there. Anything else that you want to say about that movie? It's just a shame. That's what I have to say. I do hope, you know, sometimes I think that it will get a lot of actress attention. And sometimes that helps like buoy something later in this season. And, you know, I think also to your, the thing we were talking

about earlier of there are so many like quiet movies and should we be worrying about all these small movies and things that are people don't want to watch. This is like a pretty good screeners movie.

You have to think about it. This is a movie that you could turn on at home and get pretty excited about, especially if the, if you've heard mixed reviews and they're like, wait a second, this is engaging and interesting. So I don't know. I'm just lighting a candle. That's where I am. I think it would be so fun to talk about. And I think also, if I may, I was having a conversation over Thanksgiving with a friend and we were talking about the popular

Oscar best picture debacle. Unfortunately, Widows wouldn't qualify for a popular Oscar after this weekend. But, you know, the understanding that the popular Oscar is for the genre films and the blockbuster films and the things that don't that aren't Roma and the Favourite and Beale Street. And he suggested something that my friend Ed was like, what if we did Best Picture like they do the dog shows, which is one, which, stay with me. Are you saying that we don't do it that way? Well, one genre for, you get one nomination per genre. Oh my God.

And I mean, think about it. Wow, I'm stealing this for a column. It's incredible, right? And you know, I immediately thought of, well, Widows would be the heist movie of the year, but it could also be the action movie or... Withered Den of Thieves. No.

And then you could get one period, one costume drama and one comic book movie and one... And I really do think this is the best it's certainly the best heist movie of the year and maybe the best action movie that I've seen this year wait how do you choose musical between a star is born and Mary Poppins returns that's a disaster right well but this would be fun and then also I think when we talked about the dog Oscars the um the dog show Oscars the dog Oscars are The dog Oscars are completely different. That's why I corrected myself.

The dog in Widows is the winner of the dog Oscars. Yes, it is. But the dog show Oscars, I think that you would want to keep the category qualifications as loose as possible. You want to encourage category fraud in this situation. So Widows has to choose between, I don't know, maybe there's a category for, I would not submit a, I would not vote for a female led thing in Best Picture. But, you know, Widows is having to choose between heist movie or female led or going for action. It's fun. It'd be great. I love the idea. Let's do it. I'll be stealing the idea. And then let's and then save Widows. Thank you. And apologies to Ed.

Let's use this as an opportunity to go to our next segment. You mentioned that you think that this movie, Widows, will get some love for Best Actress. I'm not so sure and I'll tell you why. Best Actress, for the first time in a long time, is loaded. So let's talk about it. Okay. We talked about the favorite. Olivia Colman, in a bit of quote-unquote category fraud, has been positioned into Best Actress.

Yes. And it's interesting. Olivia Colman, of course, is going to be the category fraud, has been positioned into Best Actress. Yes. And it's interesting. Olivia Colman, of course, is going to be the queen in the third season of your favorite show, The Crown. A different queen. A different queen. She's the queen in this also. The queen of the same nation. Yes.

But not the same person. And she's getting increasingly famous. She's obviously a much-beloved character actress in London and has been in many BBC productions and has been in American television shows and American films. She is the central character of the favorite, even if she isn't the leading character, if that makes sense. Yes. Nevertheless, she's here. And I, you know, it feels like really her and Lady Gaga is, feels like the race to me.

I would agree. So we've talked a little bit about Lady Gaga already. Let's just go through a couple of other people that are in this race. Viola Davis, I think might be on the outskirts. I could be wrong. I think she's on the outskirts.

The other people that are here are Emily Blunt. The Mary Poppins Returns moment is coming. We're going to be doing plenty of podcasts about that movie. I haven't seen it.

Everybody in the world has insisted upon telling me that has seen it, that it is marvelous. We'll see. Yalitza Aparicio?icio yes is the star of roma this is her first film i think she's 25 years old fucking incredible astonishing she's a lock it's it's a it's amazing performance yeah i think so too i think that's one of the things you certainly walk away from with the movie you're just like

who is that this is amazing and her first role like role, which is the Oscars love and undiscovered first time. I think she was a school teacher. Yeah. Which is just one of those crazy weird things. Now, again, going back to the point about foreign language films, it's very uncommon for a foreign language speaker to win an acting award. There's very little precedent for that. So, you know, she may have some struggles in that respect.

But I agree. I think she's a lock. A person who has become, there's a lot of momentum building for Melissa McCarthy and Marielle Heller's Can You Ever Forgive Me? Which I don't know

if we've yet discussed on this show. I don't think we have. It's an interesting movie. Fox Searchlight released it in October. It's about Lee Israel, who was a biographer

who eventually became a sort of a professional forger of celebrity literary letters. And it's about her tale and she's an unhappy person finding ways to create a kind of a new mode of success for herself. Yes. And it's a downbeat character study. It has done okay business at the box office, certainly not Melissa McCarthy business. But it has, I sense in the people that I've been talking to that more and more people are excited about this movie because of McCarthy, because of Richard E. Grant, who is, I think, fairly certain to be a Best Supporting Actor nominee. What do you make of the Melissa McCarthy steam? Well, it's the classic comedy actor does something serious that we can finally take

seriously and now we'll reward them which melissa mccarthy is unbelievably talented i wish her many oscar nominations this wouldn't be her first she was nominated for bridesmaids yes which was an unbelievably deserving nomination that was a rare cool moment yes i was like shit awesome they did something unique. And she's obviously a huge deal in the industry and has kind of created a whole lane for herself. Very successful.

And again, to the point we were making earlier about does the Oscars need stars? Melissa McCarthy is a star. People know her and people will watch her. She's somebody moms are like,

oh, I love her. Yeah, but I also love her. Me too. So no one just, I don't really think. But you and I would be watching no matter what. That's true. And in a weird way, I don't know if the Oscars needs this,

but it being the preeminent entertainment award show, it does need the sort of common person who might not tune in one year because they don't care to get invested in something like Melissa McCarthy winning an Oscar. Exactly. And that's very much the role that she's filling this year. You know, I would like Melissa McCarthy to be rewarded for really great performances. Like she should have won for Bridesmaids, in my opinion. This is not, this role does feel a little bit like I'm going to put on my serious face and then I might get an Oscar. It's worked before. She is certainly deserving.

I find it hard to get really excited about this performance. There's some people who have said that she's got something working against her this year, which is that she was in two movies that didn't do that well. The first was Life of the Party, which did fine. It was a comedy that came out in the spring. And the second was The Happy Time Murders, which I think might be the worst movie of the year. And The Happy Time Murders is the sort of Muppet, not Muppet, R-rated fuck fest, I guess, for lack of a better term.

It's just not very funny and it's not very good. And I understood what they were going for. But nevertheless, being in movies like that tends to, I don't know, darken the reputation of a beloved person. I don't think that's really going to be held against Melissa McCarthy. I don't think people really care about that. Yeah. But it's been posited.

I'm not sure. We'll see. You can just see, you can see voters just kind of popping in the screen or watching an hour being like, oh, this is, this is pretty nice. I like her a lot. And why not? That's a great way to put it. It's a, it is a perfect screener movie too.

Because when I was in a theater watching it, I was like, huh, okay. I'm surprised how much noise there was around this movie for people like me ahead of time. But maybe in a small setting, quietly, intimately, you get a better sense of kind of what's at play with that character and what's good about the performance. We'll see. There's a bunch of other people, but the big... Oh, good. I'm so glad we're going to talk about this. Okay. So Amanda and I haven't seen a movie. I'm so glad we're going to talk about this. Okay. So Amanda and I haven't seen a movie. It's a movie we should have seen.

Where is it? I don't know. Let me see it. I've been trying. This movie is called The Wife. It stars Glenn Close. Glenn Close is definitely one of the best actresses on earth. Absolutely.

She's been nominated five times for an Oscar. She's never won. She is the classic body of work potential winner this year and if anything's going to break up olivia coleman and lady gaga in these two very interesting films it's glenn close in this movie that neither of us have seen she's been like favored since august the wife which is an adaptation of a meg wolitzer novel by the way love meg wolitzer would love to see this film. I do not know how. Not available on streaming. Not available to buy in iTunes.

It was released during the summer by Sony Pictures Classics in very few theaters. And I skipped two screenings. Lo and behold, I may never see this film. SPC, if you're listening,

please let us know how we can watch it. We would love to talk about Glenn Close in detail. I think it's very possible that she wins this strictly on the merits of her career yes uh she's well liked she gives a great speech this reminds me a lot of julianne moore was still alice where julianne moore every time she's in a movie you're like she's incredible but for whatever reason she won for like one of her smallest worst films yes Yes. And, you know, sometimes that happens.

Now, I'm not saying the wife is small or bad. Because we haven't seen it. Because I don't know anything about it. It really just is bonkers. She has been in every conversation about this category since August. I think honestly since 2017. It's unbelievable. And it's just nowhere to be seen. I go home every day looking to find it on iTunes.

And instead, I just watch Dangerous Liaisons. It's so sad. But it also is kind of illustrative of this crazy process and how it works where maybe it's better that we haven't seen it. Maybe they just are going to keep going forever and be like, oh, wow. We do reserve performances for things we haven't seen. It's for some crazy reason. Yes. When I think about how much time I've spent, not just in my life, but in the last couple of years thinking about the Oscars and this sort of thing, it kind of makes me feel bad because it feels like the only people that are putting Glenn Close in the race are people who just prognosticate about this stuff. Like there's no conversation about the performance and the wife. It's like 11 people have seen the wife.

So how could there be a conversation? It's only people who are like, I think she's going to win. And it doesn't make, it's almost this like meta experience of trying to understand the oscar race every year when like somebody like melissa mccarthy or lady gaga in one of the biggest movies of the year literally one of the 10 highest grossing films in america is it's truly a literally star making performance and people are like yeah but watch out for glenn close in a movie you haven't seen it's a sadistic it's Okay, let's talk about a couple more people on the outside looking in. And when we see the wife,

maybe we'll circle back to talk about it. Because no disrespect to the people who made that movie. I'm looking forward to it. Let me watch your movie. Outside looking in. Julia Roberts,

I mentioned Ben is back. We haven't seen it. I have heard not great things about this film. Who knows? Julia Roberts is, I think, terrific in Homecoming, even though she's giving

a different kind of Julia Roberts performance. So she's back in the forefront of people's minds. And people are glad to have her back. Definitely. As you mentioned earlier, she is one of kind of the 10 names of, that's a movie star. And people like to have movie stars. I love to have movie stars. Another one of those 10 names is Nicole Kidman. That's so true. Nicole Kidman is seemingly always nominated for an Oscar. She's in a film that's coming out on Christmas called Destroyer that Karin Kusama directed. That is another Nicole Kidman transformation where she dirties herself up. She's wearing prosthetics. She plays a very

sort of beaten down, tough minded woman. It's a complicated movie that I don't think a lot of people are going to love, quote unquote. It's a very strong, difficult performance and a very violent film. I thought it was actually quite interesting though I'm kind of in the bag for Kusama's movie we'll see with Nicole Kidman

she's also very good in Boy Erased which she may or may not be recognized for and best supporting actress yes so we'll see there probably will be

some Nicole Kidman going on please also don't forget that she is in the film Aquaman your favorite film I can't wait to see Aquaman yeah i'm i not for this podcast's purposes but i'm just really fired up i don't share that enthusiasm but you know i kind of think she won the emmy a year ago for big little lies which was deserved in a fantastic performance and i kind

of for people who have already won and haven't heard from them in a long time, you have to have not have heard from them in a long time. And Nicole Kidman made the rounds. So I'm not sure. But I haven't seen Destroy Your Head. I've only seen Boy Erased. We'll see. And the Aquaman trailer. She's becoming a little Katharine Hepburn-ish where she's just kind of always there.

Not quite Meryl Streep, but like frequently nominated. Always good. Always beautiful. She's like 50. She looks like she's 32. It's bizarre. She has a tremendous Instagram presence beautiful. She's like 50. She looks like she's 32. It's bizarre. She has a tremendous Instagram presence that really makes people like her.

It's just, it's her dancing to her husband's songs and catching spiders. Not a fan of Keith Urban. Yeah, but I really do think people kind of want to root for her and have for a long time now. So that always helps. Let's do a couple more. Yeah. Toni Collette and Hereditary. I don't think it's happening.

I wish it would happen. You've never seen Hereditary. I don't think it's happening. I wish it would happen. You've never seen Hereditary and never will. I never will. It's truly extraordinary horror made by Ari Aster. I think it's going to turn off a lot of viewers, especially those people that are doing the popping the screener thing. Yeah. She should, Toni Collette should win an Oscar one day.

I'm sure we'll have this same, why haven't I seen Toni Collette's The Wife remake 20 years from now. Saoirse Ronan, possibly for Mary Queen of Scots. She's the most decorated, most nominated young actress in decades, maybe since like Judy Garland. And it'll be interesting if she gets nominated. I don't think she will. Carey Mulligan, likewise.

And Wildlife, probably one of my five favorite performances of the year. It's unbelievable. But I think this movie is very small. And for whatever reason, The Wife can get nominated and Wildlife, probably one of my five favorite performances of the year. It's unbelievable. But I think this movie is very small. And for whatever reason, the wife can get nominated and Wildlife can't. Sorry to the wife. I will say that Wildlife is another... Wildlife was astonishing in her performance, especially. It does feel like a screen or movie like, okay, it's time for me to watch a nice, quiet movie in my home.

I can see it kind of playing. It does also feel like a best actress performance from like 10 years ago in a really, really recognizable way of where you're just nominating the actress and everything else just kind of like, oh, that was nice and I haven't really thought about it. So I kind of, I feel like maybe that could creep in. I hope so. I'm a huge Carey Mulligan fan. I'm a huge, huge fan of that film. We'll see what happens.

Similar sort of situation with Rosamund Pike. Right. Who, you know, in the aftermath of Gone Girl, I think a lot of people thought had the potential to emerge as a bigger star

than she already is. I know you've been in the Pike crew since the Sense and Sensibility. No, not Sense. What is the movie called? It's called Pride and Prejudice. It's literally the most famous novel in the Western world. I apologize. It's also directed by Joe Wright. This podcast has been too disrespectful to Joe Wright. Okay. Joe Wright was once a guest on this podcast. He was a

wonderful guest. Check that episode out. Rosamund Pike is in a movie called A Private War about a foreign correspondent who was tragically killed, a real woman named Marie Colvin. And unfortunately, not many people have seen this movie. I think it's very good. I don't know why Rosamund Pike did not become more of a thing after Gone Girl.

Maybe it was the roles that she took. Maybe it was what Hollywood does to actresses. I think it was also because that movie was about Ben Affleck and not about Rosamund Pike, which is a different conversation. By the way, I love a movie about Ben Affleck and not about Rosamund Pike Which is a different conversation, by the way, love a movie about Ben Affleck As do I, major tangent, it's been like four or five years since David Fincher's made a movie, come on

Like I liked Mindhunter a lot, but I was just thinking to myself this morning Like just make a movie, Fincher, like you're killing me here I endorse this Okay, speech over The last person we should talk about is Kiki Lane And maybe we'll spend a little bit more time talking about her after you've seen Beale Street and we get closer to the release of Beale Street. This is Kiki Layne's first performance on screen, I think. And she's quite good. And it's a different kind of performance. And I'll explain more about what her and see if maybe some of the conversation around that movie moves away from stuff like best director and best picture and into some of the smaller aspects of the movie. Regina King is also in this movie giving an amazing supporting performance. There was a DGA podcast, the Directors Guild of America, with Barry Jenkins. He was being

interviewed by Paul Thomas Anderson. And that was a big deal for me. And Paul Thomas Anderson fawning, fawning over Regina King's performance in this movie. And I'll a big deal for me. And Paul Thomas Anderson fawning, fawning over Regina King's performance in this movie. And I'll be interested to see if that starts, that conversation kicks up a bit as well. She would be in the supporting category. Any other best actress nominees that I'm forgetting? That's like 15 people.

Yeah, that's everyone. Big race. Amanda, let's look ahead to the weeks in front of us. It's really starting. The noise is getting louder. The reason this podcast is going weekly is because all this stuff starts happening pretty much right now. So last week, we had the Spirit Award nominations, which we can talk about a little bit here. And we had the Governor's Awards where the honorary Oscars were handed out. Those were handed out to Cicely Tyson, who is like 94

years old and looks fabulous. It's amazing. She was just flossing on people. The publicist, Marvin Levy, one of the few publicists I've ever encountered who has like a golden reputation. I once emailed with him. He was delightful and helped me with a Steven Spielberg quote, one of the great experiences of my life. The composer, Lalo Schifrin, which people may know as the man who created the theme to Mission Impossible. And the producers, Kathleen Kennedy and Frank Marshall. Kathleen Kennedy might be the third or fourth

most powerful person in all of Hollywood. She produces the Star Wars movies. Her husband, Frank Marshall, is the producer of Indiana Jones and a number of other successful things. So they're doing okay.

They're doing fine. I don't know if they needed an honorary Oscar, but I'm sure they'll make some room on the mantle for it. The thing is that are coming up, and, you know, I'm going to say

I hate when people do bullshit like this, but it actually makes sense for a show like this at Amanda and I on Twitter. If you have questions, cause we'll answer a question at the end of every episode, but I think there's going to be a lot of questions about the things we're about to talk about. Yes. So in the next week or so we get the New York film critics circle and the LA film critics association awards. These awards kind of matter and kind of

don't. And we'll be able to talk more about that idea when we get there. But like, let's just talk a little bit about what won kind of the big awards in those categories last year. Best film from New York was Lady Bird. The runner up was The Florida Project. Best film from Los Angeles was Call Me By Your Name. And the runner up was The Florida Project. Best film from Los Angeles was Call Me By Your Name, and the runner-up was The Florida Project. So this is a good way of finding out what will be nominated, but not when. And then also what will be snubbed, because if the critics both give you a runner-up, then if you can't even win over the critics,

you're not going to get a Best Picture nomination, with all respect to The Florida Project, which I very much enjoyed. I completely agree with everything that you've just said. It's a very interesting thing to say. Here's like the good movie that has no chance to win. That's often what the Critics Award tends to look like, which is kind of a shallow way to look at it. But I do think that it's often true.

And sometimes you get something, something comes along that is just overwhelming, like No Country for Old Men, which tends to like sweep everything because it satisfies kind of every, you know, that critical mindset, that Hollywood mindset. But it'll be interesting to see what happens here. What would you say do you think will be the winner for New York and LA if you had to guess? I mean, it has to be Roma. There is such a critical momentum behind Roma, totally deserving because it is just a really transcendent, powerful film. And it is the kind of thing, it's definitely the one we'll talk about the most. Well, it's definitely the one that film schools will talk about the most. I heard you were slandering film schools last week. Is that true?

That was about TV. It's fine. We won't talk about it. But there is so much of a, it's a technical masterpiece in addition to being a kind of emotional masterpiece. So and it is also, as we have talked about at length, a foreign film with subtitles that is being released on Netflix. So the critics have really embraced this as the thing to push for, which is a whole interesting other conversation that we can talk about is the criticism is advocacy. But in this case is deserved. And I understand why they're doing it. And I think there is a rare consensus around Roma. So I would guess that it will win best picture of both, which I know is strange.

But I mean, people are out here just tweeting every single theater where you can see Roma. It's which is great. See it in a theater if that means something to you. But I think that it has become sort of like a badge of honor for critics that Roma is the movie. Small anecdote. I was in Mexico City last week. Mexico City is one of the few cities in the world that the movie Roma was released in. It was released all over Mexico, just two cities in America.

And I couldn't get a ticket. Couldn't go see it because it was sold out everywhere. I went to Cineteca Nacional. Great, incredible shrine to movies that is funded by the Mexican government. One of the greatest things I've ever seen. I wish America would build something like this.

And I couldn't go see it. It was only playing one time at 5.30. It was sold out. So anyhow, I think you're right. Roma probably feels like the movie that they'll throw their hat in with. Now, anyhow, I think you're right. Roma probably feels like the movie that they'll throw their hat in with. Now, it would be cool to see,

I'm not sure what would fit the bill here. Like, Black Panther would be weirdly a statement that a critics association you would think would not make. But if you look back at the critical reception

of that movie and the way that people fought for it and advocated for it, to your point, yeah, there's something to it. I mean, I think there's a runner-up designation. I think that kind of the down-ticket critics' awards will be really interesting

in terms of every other race where they all seem pretty crowded and we don't kind of have a real sense of best actress, best actor. The supporting categories, for sure, which is when the critics will really— that's where they get wacky. And that's fun because it's a performance that is sometimes overlooked and they really can kind of push something. So I think that'll be interesting. But yeah, Roma for Best Picture is, I think, kind of, maybe I'm wrong. Look for a statement for a movie that you don't see coming like black klansman i feel like there is a chance because the black klansman conversation has been persistent

not unlike the conversation around the wife though people actually went out and saw black klansman and it was funny to watch army hammer's weird tweet about how good black klansman is this weekend i don't know if you saw i did yeah um and he really got the he's trying to get the momentum going for that which is complicated at the risk of kind of going overboard, but he's the star of Sorry to Bother You. That's directed by Boots Riley. Boots Riley was very critical of Black Klansman, but Armie Hammer really liked Black Klansman.

We're really in the weeds here, but I think that a lot of people are going to be like, Armie Hammer, they're going to be like, oh shit, I didn't see this movie. I really like it. And it says something about this moment. And people want to say something about the moment in their movies without necessarily coming out and saying it.

So, in the way that Green Book may have failed, Black Klansman may succeed. We'll keep you posted on all of that stuff. The other thing that is happening is the Golden Globe nominations are being announced on Thursday of next week. So, that's like the funniest day in like pop culture news. Always. There's always four or five nominations that are patently absurd. There's always one that is like

scandalizing it so bad. And there are a few that kind of tell us where we're going in the race. If you look at the acting winners from last year, you will see chalk from the Oscars. Now last year's acting categories were among the most boring

in recent memory. Frances McDormand, Gary Oldman, Alison Janney, and Sam Rockwell. I'll be curious to see if we get similar chalk this year or not. I'll also be curious to see, as you noted with Green Book, like what the laughable comedy category nominees are. So notable in this case is that A Star is Born is running in drama and not in musical comedy. Respect to them. I agree.

Because it otherwise would have just been a, well, I actually have no idea whether the Hollywood Foreign, well, the Hollywood Foreign Press like Roma? Yeah, I think so. Because Cuaron is truly international. He's a master. He's great on, he's been great on the circuit. He's really like shaking everybody's hand. So, and this is a really personal movie for him. So I think he wants to get a lot of attention. It's good that it's not just a star

is born in the musical comedy sweep and Roma in the drama sweep because it will start the conversations a bit earlier and then it'll just make musical comedy. I guess it'll be the Mary Poppins show with notes of Green Book. That's exactly my thinking. I mean, Rob Marshall is the king of the musical comedy category. Right. He's made Chicago. He's made Nine. You remember how many Golden Globe nominations Nine got? I don't. Quite a few, which is weird because nobody liked Nine. And he's going to do well here. Into the Woods did really well. He tends to own this category at the Globes. And this is a Globes-y movie, I think. And we'll see how that plays out. But yeah, I don't know.

Any other weird surprises you're expecting here? There's always one movie that comes out like December 29th that ends up being nominated for four things that nobody has really seen. Yes. I assume that kind of Vice and Mary Poppins will fill that gap. Maybe some weird love for Stan and Ollie. I know that you're pushing that.

You know, I think the other thing just to keep in mind is that the actor and actress split at the Golden Globes will be interesting because that means that Viggo Mortensen and Mahershala Ali will be running in comedy and... Not in supporting, only in lead. Right, yes. Lead is split, supporting characters are not split. So Viggo will be running in best actor. And you'll have Emily Blunt is almost certainly locked in the best actress for musical comedy.

And you'll kind of get a sense of who maybe the frontrunners are. It gives a bit more space. Glenn Close will certainly be nominated for the wife in drama. I hope the HFPA have seen it. Because there's extra room. There's 10 spots instead of five. So great break for the wife. What is the favorite running in?

Is that in comedy? It seems that the favorite is running as comedy. Yeah, I had a feeling. So it's not a lock on Green Book there. Nor is Emily Blunt a lock. Yeah, that's true. But it will give room for Glenn Close. If anything, we've given room to Glenn Close on this podcast.

Amanda, we'll be back for our first weekly episode next week on Thursday to talk about these golden globe nominations that we're speculating about. And then the season will be in full swing and you will be doing this on the regular. I can't wait. Thanks guys. This has been the Oscar show.

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