The Big Picture - ‘Dune: Part Two’ Is Here and It’s Spectacular

Episode Date: March 1, 2024

Sean and Amanda are joined by Chris Ryan to discuss the massively anticipated Denis Villeneuve epic, ‘Dune: Part Two.’ The trio discuss the scope of the film, the fan fervor, the movie star performances it centers, and more (1:00). Then, they discuss Villeneuve’s most successful film entries up to this point and decide where ‘Dune: Part Two’ slots in among his best achievements (1:20:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Chris Ryan Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And on Fridays, we talk to our many friends of the program. We're locked in on the best post season in sports. Make sure you follow one shining podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. With TD direct investing, you can get live support. So whether you need help buying a partial share from your favorite tech company,

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Part two. It's been a cold winter at the movies in 2024. I've just had a donut, and so I am feeling incredibly excited after so many mediocre movies, so many dumpuary entries, so many empty movie theaters. Finally, Denis Villeneuve's continuation of the Dune saga is here. Dune part two. Chris Ryan, the spice lord, is here with us. Hi, Chris. Can we call this pod a visit from the Dune squad? That is what it will be. This is a very exciting time. We have a tremendous movie on our hands. So what we're going to do today is we're going to talk about 20 minutes about what we liked about

the movie without spoiling it for the listeners at home. Amanda, do you feel comfortable doing that? Never. You know, I know that people are going to send me angry messages. Fortunately, I will not read them. What if they send them on threads? Will you see them then? Yeah, probably.

But mostly people go on threads to tell me that they agree with my basketball takes. So shout out to that guy who logged on. Or woman. I actually didn't check. But thank you. Is this like the one girl that is a CR head? There's like one guy who agrees with Amanda's point of view on basketball. Can we talk about our definition of spoilers? Sure. Let's not make it too long. No, no, no, no. I'm not going to use any. I'm just like, some people will define talking about anything that happens in the film as spoilers. And I just like, I can't live like that.

You know, we got to make a podcast. So we are going to be able to describe like some things that happen. Of course. We're going to talk for 20 minutes. We're going to talk about some details of the story. If you've seen the first Dune, you will understand who the characters are. You'll understand the arc of the story to this point anyway. But then after that 20 minutes, we'll dig in.

Because this is a movie worth digging into. This is easily the movie event of the year so far. I've been wondering if we'll end up being the movie event of the year by the end of the year. It's starting to look like it might be. Can we not get negative like right now? You know, let's enjoy this moment. And then like, you know, next Tuesday, you can be like, oh shit. And now 2024 is over. I'll save it for threads for you. So, of course, this is directed by Denis Villeneuve. This is his 11th movie, his 7th movie in Hollywood. It's written by Villeneuve and John Spates. No writing credit for Eric Roth on this film. Interestingly enough, yeah. I thought that was interesting. He did have a writing credit on the previous film.

The first movie, the first Dune film, which we also celebrated, the three of us on this podcast together, was released in 2021, but it was part of that Project Popcorn initiative that Jason Kylar cooked up when he was running HBO Max. That feels like roughly 47 years ago. And so this movie premiered day and date on the Max service. Was it actually called Project Popcorn? It was called Project Popcorn. I missed that.

So there was a number of movies that participated, King Richard, Matrix Resurrections, et cetera, et cetera. That was a time when huge movies like this were showing up on a streaming service. And so a lot of people, because they didn't feel comfortable going to theaters or it wasn't available to them, didn't get a chance to see Dune Part 1 in theaters. I just want to say, before we get

too deep into this conversation, I strongly urge every listener who even cares 10% about this movie to go see this movie in as nice, loud, bold, big a movie theater as they possibly can. If you can. Yes.

It is very much worth it. And you know, Amanda and I've had the good fortune to see it twice. Now I saw it in a giant theater on a studio a lot the first time. And then we saw it in IMAX a second time. But can I, can I just say that that Warner brothers theater is spectacular. Like it is the theater.

I mean, I'm not trying to help Zaz out, but like he could solve a lot of the financial problems by just opening that up to the public. It is an amazing place to see a movie. That was beautiful. Yes. I was there with a very, very prominent film critic who I will not name. And when she walked in, she said, now this is a movie theater.

Yeah. And so we were fortunate enough to see it that way. But Chris, you saw it in IMAX with us on Sunday. What'd you think? Absolutely blew the top of my head off. Yeah, I mean, the way in which he is able to bring out every little technical nook and cranny out of a movie theater is rivaled only and or surpassed only by Nolan.

So it's just like the idea that basically you're watching things and you are feeling the sound vibrating through your chair and having your corneas scorched by the the imagery is just absolutely incredible and i actually sadly watched dune part one with my mother on a 48 inch television screen and it was a good movie and i liked it a lot but i wish i actually wish they were doing a little bit of a road show now with one and two in theaters so that people if they wanted to do what i'm sure a lot, but I actually wish they were doing a little bit of a roadshow now with 1 and 2 in theaters so that people, if they wanted to do what I'm sure a lot of people have done, which is watch Dune Part 1, getting ready for Dune Part 2, it would have been cool if you could do a double feature.

You could see one on Saturday and one on Sunday, but alas. So Amanda, what'd you think? Yeah, this movie rocks. I mean, it is just a sight to see, a feast for the senses, as Chris said. You know, we were shaking in our seats during the IMAX. And it is just totally enveloping and immersive. And, you know, it looks beautiful. I have many questions about Dune, the book, and its mythology to ask later in this podcast in the spoiler section.

But that's because the movie interested me and grounded me enough and put me in the world, which, you know, historically is hard for me, Amanda Dobbins, to do. I don't always thrill to sci-fi or fantasy, but there is something so fully realized, so specific about, you know, like the gadgets and the suits and the way they move through this world that feels very real and thrilling. Great cast. I mean, just a lot of incredibly hot people who have been nominated for Oscars.

And just, I mean, it's the movies, you know? At some point, you're just like, wow, the movies, they're back. We're so back. Yeah. I've been re-watching all of his movies the last five or six days. And you can feel watching this movie that this is really the movie he's been waiting to make his whole life. And it's exciting when you sense a filmmaker, and he's talked a lot about how much he loved the books. And in the first round of press for the first film, there was a lot of understanding of how meaningful this was to him. And oh my God, it's like this collision of Lawrence of Arabia meets Star Wars. And when you look back at this movie, you can see how much Star Wars was cribbing from Dune in the first place. And you see what a kind of titanic work of science fiction is to a generation maybe a generation a little older than us you know like i think if you were born in the 60s or born in the 50s

a book like that may have hit like a ton of bricks like you know you see that alejandro yudorovsky wanted to make a version of this movie we know that david lynch adapted this book um but this version at this moment in history with movie making in terms of what you can accomplish with sound and picture basically i, and he's been talking in the press about how dialogue is not the thing that leaps to mind when he thinks of film. We can discuss that discourse

a little bit here in this podcast. But he's giving good quote right now. Yes, he's doing a very nice job on the press tour. But yeah, I felt the same way as you guys. I thought this was absolutely breathtaking. And I think exactly what I'm looking for. About the idea that he's been building up towards this

is somebody who's such a huge fan of his previous films. It's hard for me to imagine them as sketches for something else. But you can't be a fan of his filmography and not see pieces of Arrival, pieces of Enemy, pieces of En Sandi in this film. Pieces of Sicario. Yeah, and pieces of Sicario. Definitely Blade Runner 2049. I re-watched that movie for, I think, the first time in my film. Pieces of Sicario. Yeah, and pieces of Sicario. Definitely Blade Runner 2049.

Yes. I re-watched that movie for I think the first time in my life since I saw it in theaters and I was a little mixed on it the first time I saw it. I think we both

were we both a little mixed on it? And now I'm like, oh, this is a puzzle piece. This is him learning how to do here's what it looks like when spaceships fly through the air, you know,

and now you see the way that he's able to execute on this stuff with obviously like a world-class crafts team. In addition to that cast that you're talking about, everybody else who's working on this movie, Greg Fraser and Hans Zimmer,

and it's like, it is the murder team. It is like the best of the best in Hollywood right now. Yeah, and to the point of the cast, I was trying to articulate this to myself. I was wondering if you could help me with it, Amanda, because it was like, this is day for a like a generation of of actors I think like I think especially for Chalamet's and Daya Pugh and Butler it's like there's something significant about what will probably be a huge success but also they all

acting as adults and becoming adults in front of our eyes and them getting to play parts that I think we typically associate with the kind of things that you're like, uh, and now you are, now you have moved into this new kind of realm. Yeah, exactly. I felt the exact same way.

I was thinking about this, even this year, if you look at the movies that have been big successes, you can actually go back to Wonka and then you can go to anyone but you and then you go to king uh bob marley one love which i didn't really like very much but it's like those are two pretty new faces that we have not spent a ton of time with at the movies in the last 10 years and now this movie and it's sort of like there is a really a new generation of movie stars that are in front of us now and this i totally agree with you that like you almost need a movie like this to consecrate it because this is a movie that most of the general movie

going public is going to go check out at some point. And so these people will be burnt into their minds. I have a lot of thoughts about Chalamet in this movie. I'd like to explore everything that he does. This is such an interesting flip side of the Wonka coin and what he is capable of and what kind of actor he's trying to be. It's just really rude, but okay.

Well, I'm not criticizing in either direction, but they're two very different kinds of performances. What else in the kind of macro of this sticks out to you? Like, do you think this movie will be, are we overstating it or will it be met as like this big, big, huge event? It's been interesting to watch like the first waves of reaction, um, and see, cause I think that they started showing it even at these like fan experiences on like Sunday night, which is the one I got to go to with you guys, uh, where it's been basically like these, not, not even special.

I think you could just buy tickets in advance to go see them. Uh, I just think given honestly the dearth of stuff, there's like the NBA is quiet. There's no football, like weekends are open i think people have probably been looking forward to something like this it's being kind of presented as a oppenheimer-esque like you must see this in the theater to get the full exposure to the sun uh and the moon and whatever else they got up there but uh it's i think that there will be some critiques and fair critiques of the film, but I think that the spectacle of it and the overall impact of it will kind of, for me, it makes my quibbles feel like literally quibbles rather than like, well, I don't know if I can get

past this. Yeah, I generally agree with that. To me, this is not like the perfect execution of this. There are some things that I didn't totally understand the first time I watched it or that I wish were fleshed out a little bit more. I think sometimes when you're talking about an epic story, it's very rare that you find one that has the pace that this movie has. This movie is two hours and 47 minutes and it glides through a ton of story. And I think it was one thing that you had said to me, Chris, was just that there are times where you don't quite know how much time has transpired in the story relative to maybe what the book is trying to do or what the arc of the character is meant to be. Not a perfect movie, necessarily. Some questions about gestation time on Arrakis.

Absolutely. Yeah. We will talk about the birthing methods of the Reverend Mother at length, I think, on this podcast. But there's just not a lot of entrances and exits. So like he usually starts scenes like as they are, you know, in Media Ray where it's like they've kind of already started this assault on a harvester or they've already been walking in the desert for a while. And then he doesn't necessarily end things where you're like, and now they're walking over there. It's like the action kind of ends and then the action begins somewhere else. And it's up to the viewer to kind of be like, oh, it seems like they've moved south or moved north.

Yeah, I actually, it was interesting to watch this against Blade Runner 2049, which is so methodical. It is a movie that really sits in atmosphere. There are long stretches of just Ryan Gosling in a spaceship alone, traveling to the abandoned Las Vegas. This movie, it does feel like it's cut very quickly. There's a lot of information to convey. There are a ton of characters.

I'll tell you what, one of the best things about it is that you've got this stacked cast of basically, you've got the older generation, much like the first movie, which is, you know, Javier Bardem, Stellan Skarsgård, Josh Brolin. Like people who every time they show up in a movie are like, this is great. Like they know exactly what they're doing. Christopher Walken in this case. And then you do have the younger generation who, I think the choices that they made, they're all people who we have a bigger relationship to outside of the movies. And that weirdly helps the movie. Sometimes that can be distracting, like the cult of Austin Butler, something we've talked about on the show. Florence Pugh has gotten very famous. Zendaya is world famous and Chalamet is world famous too. But in a way,

I had no problem watching them sink into their characters. And in fact, their outside fame, I thought contributed to the epic scope of this story. It's actually a little harder to accept somebody like Chalamet when it's a small, quiet movie at this point, because you're like, that's Timothee Chalamet, you know? But now, it was good that they didn't choose unknowns. It was good that they chose people, and maybe they just got good fortune with Elvis becoming the phenomenon that it did. But when Austin Butler shows up in this movie, you're like, fucking let's go, man. This is Austin Butler's here now, which is, you wouldn't have said that two years ago, obviously. So it worked out in an interesting way with the cast as well, I guess is what I'm saying. Yeah. I think the movie is both star making and made by its stars,

which is just another way of saying this. This alchemy happens every once in a while where you get the right people at the right time. It feels larger than the sum of its parts. I think this movie is going to feel like a pop cultural event, even if it maybe doesn't have the box office to match Oppenheimer or Barbie, you know, which what does you do? Yeah. But because as Chris was saying of like the lack of other options because of

the delay and their ability, like those four have been on a press tour for the ages extremely charming and then like sometimes austin butler goes off to the side to do press with calum turner your boy for masters of the air which is getting quite good yeah i heard you talking about this on the watch that's what i heard time to tune in it's uh they're going to do the great escape soon oh yeah nice oh but like anecdotally it it just seems in my life, people who are not like, oh, I got a race to the movie theater to see something or aware are planning. They're like, oh, I should probably see that in theaters. Right. It just it does seem like they have been able to make this into like a larger phenomenon, which is great for the movies. I was thinking about how, what a crazy year 2023 would have been

if this movie had been released at the end of it, which is supposed to be a November movie. And it was already such a great movie year. It would have been overwhelming. It would have been really interesting in the Oscar race. I'll tell you that. I think it would have been pretty fascinating in relationship to Oppenheimer.

Yeah. Because I think that Oppenheimer took over the fall in a way that it might not have. Not necessarily box office wise, but just conversation wise. Yes. Where it's just like. Not necessarily box office wise, but just conversation wise. Yes. Where it's just like people watching it over and over. Obviously, again, when you get to that kind of box office, like it's because people are going to be like, I want to see this again on the big screen before it leaves. It's been re-released. Tenet's now out. Like we've

just, we've done a huge victory. I see everyone coming to the Tenet train. Like, yeah. Hi, how are you? We did see it on a big screen. And so in fact, we understand its power. I'm really happy the tenant is getting its due. I do think that the delay has also allowed Villeneuve and Nolan to Lucas and Coppola each other here through this, you know, to be like, my great master genius, my great master genius. And they get to share each other's work.

They're not competing in any way. Right. You know, they're obviously close friends. And they do similar but different things. And I think you're right. I think it would have been a little, it would have changed the tenor of that if it had come out in November. So to kind of like keeping it general before we start talking about the specifics of the plot, there was one thing I wanted to ask you guys that obviously was a, a major tenant of the, no pun intended of like the first, the first Dune experience that you had,

which was the feeling of like, this feels very chapter one, you know? And one thing that I thought was kind of interesting about doing part two was at once, it's literally like minutes after one is over. I love that. It starts, Dune part two starts,

but shout out to Denny for making the second of what is obviously going to be three films without belaboring that or making you feel like you had to stay for a post-credits sequence or making you feel like you somehow didn't get your money's worth on this one. And obviously Christopher Nolan has kindly compared this to Empire Strikes Back. I do think that there are elements of that. And I will also say that this is a blockbuster that has real moments of ambiguity and darkness. That was very welcome for me.

I thought that there was still some Sicario in his palette when it comes to some of the storytelling, even though obviously it's in Dune. Yeah, I mean, I think thematically it will be something we should talk about when we get into the plot of the story. Like what this movie is really trying to say and what this story is actually about. Because obviously Dune, when you look at the text of the book, and I'll admit I have not read the book, so I'm not going to pretend like I'm an expert. Chris and I went heavy on the Wikipedia pages last night, so we're ready. You guys can be the core experts. But you know, there are some things that are complicated as seen through like a 2024 lens

relative to when it was written in 1965. So there, and Villeneuve has made a lot of changes as well. Like the part two in particular moves in a few different directions than the book intends. And from what I've heard from experts, they for the most part seem to be very accepting of the way that it's changed. And that's not something that always happens when you have a beloved text like this. People get frustrated. But the thing that I was thinking about with regard to the second movie

point you're making is this feels very much like Lord of the Rings to me, where there was a clear vision ahead of time on how to tell these three stories, that each movie can really stand on its own, that you don't have to do like stingers there's nothing glib about this movie there's no like nudge nudge jokes there is a sense of humor and a lot of that humor i heard you say this on the watch and i completely agree with what you said is in the performance it's in the characterization that the actors are bringing based on what's in the script that makes the movie fun but doesn't make it like wasn't that so funny that he said that like it's that's not the energy of the movie.

There's no Easter eggs. Yeah, exactly. They're not trying to trick you with anything. They're not trying to lead you into a movie that's going to come out in 2047. Like, this is, in theory, a trilogy. If there's more, of course, there's more because that's what corporations do to sell this stuff. But you can feel at least the primary author of the movie and Villeneuve and his co-writers moving in a very clear direction which is a great relief like to me it is ironically

a confirmation of the loss of interest in serialization even though this is a serialized story that is being told over two movies like what we're looking for is like an end point and it seems like the makers of this know that there's an endpoint in mind. They're making choices. It's contained. As opposed to being like, okay, so where are the spinoff opportunities and what merchandise?

And, you know, how are we going to bring this back? Even though, you know, as you guys talked about on The Watch, there's like still a Ben and Jezrich show somewhere in development. Honestly, I'm kind of curious. So that's fine. Somewhere in Budapest.

I think they're still cranking that out. Is Charlotte Rambling in that show? I don't know when. I don't know if it's Rebecca Ferguson. Or is it set like hundreds of years in the past? Or whether it's how Rebecca Ferguson was brought in. So I thought she was the star of it, but maybe she's not. I'm curious about Lea Seydoux's character's origin story.

Hell yeah. Put that out there. Lea Seydoux is in this movie. What else? Any other final general reflections before we start digging into the plot of the movie for me he right now is in some ways the best action movie maker in the world like you know in terms of being able to imagine things on screen use the entire like depth of a field come up with like to your point amanda earlier with like what's a cool mask no one's ever put on this a character before how what have we not seen how about silent jumping out of

harvesters into the desert you know like all this stuff where you're just like you do get a little bit of that first time you see jurassic park first time you see inception first time you see what yeah there's a there's a shot in the first five minutes where I just like grinned up at the screen. You know, like it's just, holy shit, they're doing it. I felt this very similarly after the first film. So it's funny that he was able to replicate that. After the first film, I think I talked about it when we were doing the show, but it's like the first time you see the ornithopter,

where I'm like, I've never seen a flying vehicle like that in a movie. Yeah. There's a bomb in this movie that like flies through the air and attaches itself to things. And I was like, I've never, I don't, what is that? Like someone came up with a new idea and put it in a movie. It's not quite the first time you saw the T-Rex,

but you're right. It kind of, it's that tingling sensation you get. I like that he goes for it. You know, like I like that there's a, when we're really introduced to the Austin Butler character, it's a huge swing. Butler character, it's a huge swing. Yeah.

You know, it's a deviation from the look and feel and narrative of the entire film to show us, like, this motherfucker is a badass. We have to take him seriously. And it's like he used all the credit he had in the bank to be like, I'm going to do this with this dude. I'm going to do Gladiator, you know? This movie, like, looks so good in a way that, like, I'm sitting in the theater thinking,

like, if I were another director trying to operate on this scale or tell any type of stories, like, I would be embarrassed. Like, it's just, why can't the rest of you guys figure this out? Because what he's able to do in terms of the I mean the scale and the imagination but like also the effects like you know if I were a CGI artist like working somewhere else like I wouldn't show up to work anymore like it's really really phenomenal I think there's a few things working positively in their direction one the design of the world and the fact that there is a clear like this script was not changing two-thirds of the way through the movie. Right.

In all likelihood, even if there were reshoots. Two, like shooting on location is everything. It's just everything. You don't have to tell me that. Like being in the desert, there are sequences that are just straight up homage to Lawrence of Arabia. Where the sun is coming down. Films in Jordan in the same spot. Yeah, exactly.

And that's all very purposeful. And I think it goes a long way. Like, Quantumania was never going to look like this. It couldn't look like this because it takes place on a planet

we've never seen before. I guess technically Arrakis is one of those, but it's a desert that is shot in the world that we live on. So, I 100% agree with you.

Don't come out here defending Quantumania again. I'm not defending it. Let's have standards. This is the standard. I believe it has been punished for its sins. Trust me. I think the weight of Disney is falling because of Quantumania. I'm just trying to give credit to someone for once. It's really, really astonishing. I'm with you 100%. It's a major achievement. It's really exciting. I'll be curious to see when we get into the plot of what could be

coming when we move away from Arrakis where most of this movie takes place how that meaningfully changes this stuff nevertheless like okay so what I was thinking we could do is I'll briefly describe where we left off for the movie and then just kind of talk through what is happening and hear from you guys about what you liked what worked what didn't well what jumps out at you does that make sense yeah okay and we'll try to make this the highlights portion of this conversation because I think we'll have another portion, another kind of conversation like this next week. Spoiler warning. Okay, so after we left off, the Emperor had relocated House Atreides onto Arrakis under the auspices of getting spice production under control.

That actually was a ruse created by the Emperor to create discord and basically to wound House Atreides. Paul's father, Leto, who was played by Oscar Isaac, is murdered by the Harkonnens. The Harkonnens essentially take over. Rabban, who is the Baron's nephew, effectively takes over, like runs the entire planet. Paul and his mother, Jessica, are found by Duncan and they're kind of escorted away from Arrakeen, which is the capital of the planet. And they kind of join up with the Fremen, who are the native people of the desert land.

And slowly it becomes clear that Paul, who is having these visions, is somehow spiritually and intellectually connected to the Fremen. And he's also having visions of a woman who is a Fremen woman who's played by Zendaya. You can see that him sort of insinuating himself in that world. He passes a kind of test at the end of the first movie where he has to wage a battle with a Fremen warrior and he kills the warrior and wins. And that actually, that fight is more significant to part two than I had realized until I watched part one the second time.

Where I was like, okay, so Jammes, this character that he kills at the end of this film. That's basically like the climax of the first movie. And I think that threw some people off where it was like, wait, I thought we would get a space battle or something to end this. This is significant, but I didn't know. Yeah, two guys duking it out yes which is i think knives in the desert i think when you watch if you watch them back to back it makes a lot more sense right and it feels more like you have to do the small scale triumph to go to the big scale triumph and they're all there is a huge battle war sequence and at the near the end of dune part 1 as well. But effectively, the movie ends with him winning this battle and joining the Fremen. And the Harkonnens are running Arrakis, and we know

that he wants to avenge his father and also try to make sense of what these visions are and what it is that is happening inside of him and his relationship to this world that he has never seen until he just arrived on it. And as you said, Chris, the movie more or less picks up right where it left off. We get this little interstitial moment where we meet Princess Irulan, who's played by Florence Pugh. Yeah. And she's jotting in her diary.

Yep. Her diary happens to be a spinning machine. Yeah, would we call it jotting? She's dictating. She's live blogging. She's live blogging. That's right. She's vlogging.

That's the original live journal. Yeah. She's on Vine, and she's putting down her thoughts. But this is the future, right? So it's the follow-up to LiveJournal because they've eradicated LiveJournal. Here's one of the things I learned in Wikipedia. That in the world of Dune, they just got rid of computers and artificial intelligence.

They were just like, no. And so humans must like use more of their mind and develop powers. With the spice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Accommodate for the computer. So it's like future LiveJournal. humans must like use more of their mind and develop powers with the spice yeah yeah yeah accommodate for for the computer so it's like it's like future live journal once we're using all our brains i'll just ask you guys right now what do you think of florence pugh in this movie

uh she has a very practical role where she is essentially doing a lot of exposition and a lot of asking audience questions uh and then she gets very important um i thought she was good but very static and she just has a tremendous amount of screen presence and really can wear head headwear in an incredible way she looks cool she looks really cool her styling is extraordinary yeah in this movie i mean everybody's is but this is like you know their interpretation of princess wear intergalactic princess wear is fashion forward oh don't you think i i do i you know like transparent looks are in right now on the runways so it feels very synchronized to florence pew's external experience of style which is not always successful but is she's she's bold um we're just gonna spoil the movie going forward

so if you don't want the movie spoiled for you turn off the podcast we love you we'll see you next week just turn it back on once you've seen it just fire it up you know in theory I think a lot of people already see this on Thursday and Friday so that's why we're putting this episode out when we are the next thing that we see in the movie is a fetus

you didn't mention Christopher Walken we also see that Christopher Walken is the emperor I thought he was incredible as the fetus. You didn't mention Christopher Walken. Oh, yeah. We also see that Christopher Walken is the emperor, which is like, is right for me. I thought he was

incredible as the fetus. I'm in this stomach. I was wondering how much Walken you were going to break out. It's like, that is the one thing about casting

Christopher Walken as the emperor is like, he's still doing Christopher Walken as the emperor. Everybody is just doing themselves

with maybe the exception of Bardem the whole time I was waiting for him to say you got me in a vendetta kind of mood you know like he never does that

got a chest of fuel but he doesn't he has very few lines in this movie he is there as a kind of spectral presence of power until we get to the

end of the film but we do we come to the inside of Jessica's belly yeah and there's a child inside. Which we knew from the first.

Which we knew. There is another. Yeah. And it's like the world's most psychedelic ultrasound. And the movie like is consistently returning back to this fetus inside the belly as it's growing and changing. And as Jessica builds a deeper and deeper bond with this child. It's true that despite, you know, they've gotten away, they've gotten rid of computers and a lot of imaging technology, but that is a really clear image. That's not what you're getting at your average ultrasound.

Do you think that you would drink the water of life if you could have a telepathic relationship with your daughter? I'd like to hold that question for a deeper exploration. The water of life. She has the relationship the telepathic water where they're like oh shit she's pregnant the water of life awakens the child yeah so the child is communicating directly with her after that she drinks it no she says before she's like she talks to me i think she's like she she talks she does i think the same way that it's like i felt the kicking there's like I think there's an implication that there's a new.

She talks to me. No, they have a whole conversation. She's like, she talks to me, you know. She doesn't understand why you're not going with us. And she doesn't understand why you don't accept your role and all of these things. And it's before she drinks the water of life. I think it gets super charged after the water. You know, and I mean, I did wonder.

I'm like, is she actually talking or are we doing like, is Rebecca Ferguson manipulating? Sorry, Jessica, played by Rebecca Ferguson, manipulating Timothee Chalamet. What's his Paul? In order, it's very hard. I mean, they're just people to me, as you said. He's got lots of names. I totally screwed up by not starting this podcast. I'm Wadim.

I'm Uzel. So you do wonder whether she's like manipulating everyone's understanding of her supernatural powers and making it up. But they have the conversation. She says that they're connected from the beginning and then the water of life just supercharges it. I think part of the thinking with that character too in that way is it's meant to show the way that sometimes people think of zealots as crazy like if you see if you're looking at her talking about how she's communicating in conversation with her unborn child you'd be like this lady is she really is drinking the water of something you know like there's there's something kooky going on with her but in fact she is she is an all-powerful reverend mother we'll get to her um we talked

about those like action sequences and how special they are the movie i think very wisely after these two quick kind of interludes at the top has this very cool little mini siege scene yeah where we see the the harkonnen soldiers kind of glide down and then glide from a giant testicle yes well yes that's what some of the ships look like yeah many of them also very much like the spider and enemy ah i hadn't thought about that interesting um they glide down but then they glide back up a mountain when they when they take off is when i just like i gasped i totally agree so exhilarating and beautiful it's it's one of those things where it's like we've been watching people with like jet packs and in rocket ships and and it's floating in space for years but

never quite like this and that's what's so exciting about this movie like in a nutshell you know that there's so many things where you're like i've never seen it quite like this it's done so well yeah there's also some weird he finds some middle ground between obvious just like i did this because it looks cool and also it has some functionality so even the harkonnen suits which are black i'm like well you would want like a more reflective color probably in the desert but i like it you know it's like like you look like badass well it's almost like this um recognition of the differences between tribes like the harkonnens they are who they are and in fact when we go to their land later it's just black and white because they are who they are. And in fact, when we go to their land later, it's just black and white because they are a people without nuance.

Yes, they are a people without nuance. So we have this great siege sequence. We see Paul that he has improved as a fighter very quickly, but we also see he's still not totally there because he needs his mom to save his ass when one of the Harkonnens almost kills him. And when there's... Never leave your back to the open. Isn't that what she says? That's what she says, yeah. After just absolutely smashing somebody's head with a rock.

I don't think we mentioned Rebecca Ferguson's name too, but she's another one of those like Javier Bardem, Stellan Skarsgård people who you're like, just never bad in a movie. Never not excited to see her in a movie. It's all time. It's looking one of my favorite... It's probably my favorite performance in the movie

is what she does this. She has a hard part and she sells it. After this sort of like mini victory during this siege, we see that there's a kind of divide at the siege

where the Fremen live between the true believers that Paul might in fact be the Messiah and then the people who are one, mad at him because he killed Jamas

and two, you know, think he's like a white interloper who's come to like destroy their society. Right right and who don't believe in the larger prophecy and and Zendaya as Johnny is is one of those individuals who's like the the prophecy is made up to control us yes and there's interesting both generational divide it seems like the younger Fremen are the ones who are skeptical of Paul. The older ones are ones who are more willing to believe in this stuff.

There's also a geographical divide of people from the North and people from the South and what they believe. And there's fundamentalists in the South that become a very big part of this movie. And like the rules of order and how people keep order and power is like the number one thing you find when you look at all the Denis Villeneuve movies. So then when you see this movie, and I'm not sure how much they've evolved some of those specific details or how much were reflected in the original Frank Herbert book, but the parallels are so obvious as to be ridiculous. It's like the North versus the South, older people being more faithful,

younger people, not quite having the desire to believe in something in the same way. Like these are pretty resonant ideas, despite the fact that we're talking about the spice of life and ornithopters. So I think this movie sells that stuff way better than the first movie. The first movie I found a little, it's so much about Paul and Paul's journey and so much about the Atreides house

that you don't quite get some of the more thematic stuff that I think works much better in this movie. There's also a really delicate balance that he's got to handle because I think that the film wants to be skeptical about Paul's, not only whether or not Paul is some sort of Messiah figure,

but also Paul's own feelings about his role, his mother's feelings about his role, what's been decided by the Bene Gesserit way off planet and, you know, being written in the stars for generations through breeding and then there's just the text which is you know as you go further and further into dune is non-negotiable about what kind of happens with paul um it's it's fascinating to watch villeneuve be like okay i'm gonna kind of leave enough of a door open here that you know know, we can all ask ourselves, like, is this guy just a super high prince who's good at

fighting? Or is he some sort of God figure? Because of that implication in the story, the wheels of the prophecy start to go in motion. So we start to see that Jessica has been identified because if in fact Chalamet's character, Paul is the Lisan al-Gaib, the Messiah character. Voice from the outer world. Right.

But she, in fact, also has to be a critical figure in the story. She has to be the Reverend Mother. So she's got to essentially take over this role as this spiritual guide,

as this person who everyone turns to to kind of get a sense of what is right in the spiritual world. And so she has to drink the aforementioned water of life, which we learn later in the movie is in fact the juice from an adolescent sandworm. Yep. So I ask you both,

would you drink the water of life if it could give you the ability to communicate with unborn children in the spirit world? I think that would be weird for me. As an older man with no child, that's not number one on the draft board. But what about if you could have all of the understandings of generations of reverend mothers? Could I communicate with Buddy Holly? You know what I mean?

Could I talk to Anthony Bourdain? That would be cool. Well, let's just say you could. You would do it? Would you risk death? Because this is a dangerous proposition to drink the water of life. It only seems like,

first of all, guys aren't supposed to do it. Yeah. Unless. Unless. But I would. Unless. Unless. And, but I would need that desert tears. You know what I mean? I need. Yeah.

Is that Phoebe? Who's delivering those tears? I guess. Yeah. You need it to be Johnny. Yeah. Okay. All right.

Interesting. Would you do it? No, I'm not drinking that shit. First of all, it's bright blue. And I don't really like, you know, any sort of medicinal liquid just isn't sitting well with me you know what i'm saying yeah like they give you like let's explore that robitussin out uh yeah i really don't i don't like that stuff abysmal oh i mean i know it's supposed to soothe your stomach but it just comes right up for me okay Okay. In pregnancy, the way that they test for gestational diabetes

is they make you drink this like syrupy sugar liquid that's like very viscous. And like I basically could not keep that down. So I just, I don't really, I don't like liquids with heft unless it's liquor. Meaning like a viscosity? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like an Amaro. No, that's liquor meaning like a viscosity yeah okay yeah no but that's liquor so that's fine let's let maybe maybe the fremen need to do a rebrand i guess like syrup you know anything that's verging towards syrup is tough for me um interesting will you put syrup on

a pancake yeah but that's that's not a liquid i'm'm not like chugging it. Yeah. I see. It's a dressing. So that's a problem. I get accused of being super weird sometimes with my food stuff. This is kind of a curious one. Oh, so you're just going to drink the blue worm piss? Well, I'll tell you exactly what it looks like. I'll show you a photo. Exactly. And I drank this all the time as a kid. Oh, blue Gatorade. Blue Gatorade. It looks just like blue Gatorade. No, it's more electric than blue Gatorade and it'satorade. It looks just like blue Gatorade. No, it's more electric than blue Gatorade and it's thicker.

It might be. I think it looks a little bit like the liquid that you clean toilet bowls with too. You know, when you come into squirt bottles. Yeah. Do you think you would have a problem

drinking the water of life if you witnessed the extraction? I think in that world I would have more of an understanding of sandworms you know but maybe you're right it would be like

if they extracted the blood from a rat and I'd be like I don't know if I want to drink rat blood that doesn't sound cool yeah you're thinking you're so contemplative

no I'm like honestly I'm just like feeling a little queasy also thinking about drinking it I did think the extraction process was very cool. Like, that person is a badass.

And those little, like, little aquariums. Yeah, and the choreography of it was just, like, so inventive. It was very cool. We'll get there. It's very well done.

But I mean, also, you know, it could be, like, really stupid and bad. Like, if that is not done well, it would be very silly. Jessica also says, you know, before she goes and drinks it when she's

like anointed reverend mother or whatever and now i'm thinking that maybe why you aren't going with she drinks the poison before they leave so that's what i'm saying yeah yeah yeah so maybe maybe i'm wrong although that in that very first thing i think you're right that she has she does say extraterrestrial relationships with her and she i think she does say she talks to me, you know, like, before. But you're right, that it's only heightened. Something, like, flashes on, though. Yeah. Right.

Because this happens really early in the movie, The Water of Life. Yeah, because... And there is also, like, another fetus shot where, like, The Water of Life, like, kind of swirls around. Yes. It, like, encases her. Yeah, but it's, like, it's not in the uterus, you know, or something. I don't really know. I mean, again, I have a lot of questions about, like, whether human reproductive systems have evolved. Yep.

In 10,000. Because it's like she's pregnant for a really long time. I hope listeners will stick around to the end of this pod because I have Jessica's OBGYN coming in and we're going to talk about it. I'm super excited. I've been trying to book her for a while. That would be a service to the world at large. Okay. The more that we can all learn about women's health,

the better. I just got an actual Chris laugh, which is a quiet laugh. Chris doesn't make any noise. That's how he, I know he actually thinks it's funny as opposed to when he like audibly laughs and he's faking it. Some lady at Cedars who's like,

you know, it's like a Kardashian and it's like, Lady Chassica, did you get some new face tests? You're slaying. You're slaying. It's like a Kardashian and it's like, Lady Jessica, did you get some new face tests? Another fate. Your sling. Your sling. Okay.

But anyway, so before she goes, when Stilgar is like, hey, you get to be Reverend Mother and she and Paul are chatting about it. She's like, Reverend Mothers are given the memories of their entire society. So she's like, so i have like centuries of you know pain and suffering headed my way and she's like so i'm like no i'm not stoked i also feel that way you know i'm like i don't know if i want to take that on okay um but you already carry that burden as a woman with girl era trying to have it all that is that is so true but then it's like who am i know, what do I get in return?

Like wearing weird cloaks and like having to talk to more people? You can orchestrate your son becoming the prophet. Thanks so much for setting this up. Let's talk about that. Would I do that? Is Jessica a good mom? Discuss. I thought that this was one of the more intriguing and compelling storylines within the movie is her orchestration of his rise and also Stilgar's useful idiot being like,

everything Paul does is somehow confirmation of a prophecy. Where it's just like, of course he doesn't believe he's the prophet because the the prophet would be so too humble to say so and it's like yeah this is classical storytelling shakespeare kurosawa movies this this idea of like a controlling maternal or paternal figure who's putting their children in position to succeed as the king or as the messiah or something like that and that you know in some ways stilgar is kind of like a false staff kind of a figure throughout the movie you know he has other like kind of sidekick roles and also as this true believer

who constantly is explaining the prophecy to the audience and constantly, one, Javier Bardem is having the time of his life in this movie. And he is so fun,

so fun to watch. A complete 180 from like the Anton Chigurh type character feels very kind of connected to the Skyfall character yeah he's just like I'm here to bring life to what's going on here he's just making a meal of it and it makes the movie so much better like every time he's on screen you

understand that he is this kind of like mad-eyed you know uh believer of the prophecy but also a friend but also somebody who knows how to teach you how to do things. Kind of looks like Anthony Quinn and Lawrence of Arabia. He does. Like carries himself that way. Yes. And so like what happens here effectively is that now we see Paul is really learning how to become Fremen and really learning how to get involved in this culture to basically confirm that he is in fact this Messiah figure.

So he starts better learning how to sand walk with Johnny. He is sent out in the desert. No illusions whatsoever intended. Right. All by himself. Well, Johnny goes out and helps him. Johnny goes out and helps him. And that's where we see that, like, really these two people are starting to fall for each other.

And that they have this very kind of tenuous affair that is beginning where she doesn't want to believe in him as the Messiah. But she wants to believe in him as a person. As a boyfriend. As a boyfriend. And they have this moment atop,op like one of the sand dunes and i think it's like when they finally kiss that is like they nailed it it is very swoony like young romance like some of the more emotional sides of the characters aren't always developed especially as you like go through the plot but all the plot that they have to get through.

But this was just like two movie stars falling in love. It's Dr. Zhivago. It's great. Visual language of the movie is kind of like best distilled down into that moment because it's these incredible widescreen vistas where you're just like, wow, you guys really went out into the desert.

This is incredible. And then intense handheld close-ups, where there's very little, like, kind of master to over-the-shoulder kind of stuff that, like, just traditional, like, shooting conversation filmmaking. It's either these two people thrown up against one of the most gorgeous landscapes you can see, or Terrence Malick in your face, like, with a handheld camera, letting these two great actors and stars kind of be who they are.

Yeah, two great expressive movie faces too. Chalamet, his character evolves from this point. This is kind of the last moment of his innocence. His rich kid who finds himself stranded in the desert moment. Very good at playing this. I'm really interested in what he does basically from this point on. After we get basically what has been

entirely table setting to this point, we get two consecutive sequences that are un-fucking-believable. The first one is when he learns how to ride the Shai-Holud, the sandworm.

Yeah. Which is amazing. And we have been through the last 15 years of movie making to know that you can basically blow your movie on something like this.

Yes. And they nail it. This is like when the dragons finally show up in Game of Thrones too much through the last 15 years of movie making to know that you can basically blow your movie on something like this. Yes. And they nail it. This is like when the dragons finally show up in Game of Thrones too much and you're just like, ah, it's not real. And we've been making jokes

about sandworms since this movie was announced. Sure. We see them, obviously, in the first film. We know that the Stilgars of the world know how to ride them.

The big test for Paul is can he ride it effectively? And I don't know if they could have done this better where I was just like on the edge of my seat even though in the back of my lizard brain

I'm like of course he's going to be able to ride it he's Paul Atreides he's the hero of this story if he doesn't ride it what the hell is going to happen to this movie yeah but they create the drama

and the tension and the you know it's perfect the shots of the what are the machines that summon the worms the thumpers the thumpers

the thumpers the seismic you know which is just like another cool, you know, I know a lot of this comes from the book itself, but the way they realize it is just so smart and so specific. And the shot of the thumper and then, you know, one of the Fremen being like, you know, call a big one, don't embarrass us.

And then, oh no, it's too big. And then it's like, you know, and everyone is like so freaked out. us. And then, oh no, it's too big. And then it's like, you know, and everyone is like so freaked out. It's just note for note perfect. It's so fun. And then, so of course he does conquer the sandworm and it immediately cuts to a raid sequence that I imagine this is what you're talking about

when you think about the action of this movie, where it is simultaneously intimate because we're following two characters who are on a mission, but it's at the biggest possible scale because it's this enormous machine that they have to infiltrate. And then there are lasers and explosions and there's a giant gun. And basically what they're trying to do is they're trying to damage the spice production to, I guess, like undermine the Harkonnen dominance in the region. And to me, this is like

the, it's just a louder version of the Sicario border shootout, you know, where you're just like, you know, something is going to happen. You know, that it's really dangerous. You know, that everybody is under threat, but there is like a little bit of a patience, a little bit of like, oh, we're not quite ready to do it yet. And then it fully connects at the end of the sequence. I thought this was just an, it's like pretty bold to be like, we're going quite ready to do it yet. And then it fully connects at the end of the sequence. I thought this was just an, it's like pretty bold to be like, we're going two for two now in the span of 15 minutes, we're doing two mega sequences, but thought it worked incredibly well.

Uh, and then they, they go to the Harkonnen planet, correct? Um, immediately after that, we, I believe we learned that Paul is now going to be known as Usel.

Yes. And that he has to choose a name that his like Fadaiqan name, which is like his warrior name. And that's where he lands on the Muad'Dib, which is the kangaroo mouse, which we see. It's the Wadi, I think, right? Isn't Muad'Dib just another name for Messiah?

No, it's Mahdi is the Messiah. Mahdi is the Messiah. Mahdi is the actual creature. So that's why he chooses that name. It'd be like if he chose your name, because CR's warrior

name is Eagle. So, you know, and he's like, it's Eagle Ryan coming through. Mahdi. So anyway, the kangaroo mouse

you'd think would be a ridiculous choice, even though Chalamet in so many ways is such a kangaroo mouse of a person. But Stilgar, the true believer,

is like, perfect choice. Yes. He leads the true believer, is like, perfect choice! Yes. He leads the way! This is exactly what you are! Yes, he creates his own water! You know, so, it's a very fun sequence.

And then we go to, we see that, like, Rabban is losing his grip on the planet. That he's been completely undermined. The Baron has to make a choice to figure out how to get Arrakis under control.

They're concerned about the Emperor. And so, is it immediately at this point? I think it's a little bit after this that they go to the planet. I think they flash back to wherever the Emperor and Princess Arulan and Charlotte Rampling are. And they have that conversation.

And with the iconic piece of dialogue, he's a psychopath. Which is, you know, what Florence Pugh has to do expositionally to set up Austin Butler's entrance as Faye D'Alfa. And at that point

you learn that the Bene Gesserit are involved in all of this and up to their hijinks once again. That they're trying to basically breed a leader and that they have been working on this for generations, both through the Atreides and the Harkonnens. And that they have all these contingency plans, all these things that if this doesn't work, this will work. Kind of like the DNC and the RNC, right? It's a little bit alike. We got Newsom in our back pockets. Two groups of people with lots of optionality.

Not willing to make the bold choices that the Bene Gesserit are, clearly. And then so we do, basically we get this setup where we're shown Fade Rautha as he's about to enter a gladiatorial setup to show what a powerful man he is but also the falseness the fallacy of that too where a couple of the warriors that he set to battle who are from house atreides

have been drugged but then there's one warrior who has not been drugged so he has to prove himself so we get to both see that fade route that is a great warrior but also that as with all power it's kind of a sham well i kind of like the idea that he is like this mirror image of paul who is being you know propped up as something that he may or may not be like he obviously has like a lot of knife skills but like usually fights drunks yes and the one time he has to fight like a guy who has like his wits about him he does take a couple shots but yeah i think think that they're very much pitting these guys together.

Also, he's hairless, licking knives. Oh, a cannibal. Slitting random concubines or, you know, assistants or whatever's

throats in order to feed their body parts to his other love leaves. His like demon wives? Yeah. Right. And his teeth are blacked out.

Yeah. So, I mean, it's a cool scene so you were just horny on main for butler through the entire elvis situation he he definitely has a presence in this and you can't deny it as as evidenced by the fact that leah sadu rolls up is monitoring the situation in the arena and then shows him to the guest quarters and gets a little business done. You know, now obviously she's on orders to do that. You think she enjoyed herself though

in the aftermath of the pain box test? They had some chemistry. Yeah, yeah. I'd like to say thank you to Léa Seydoux for all her work. Léa Seydoux could have chemistry with like a pile of foam. Well, so could Austin Butler is what happened. So you were attracted to Austin Butler in this film. I wasn't against it.

You're currently twirling your hair. Incredible stuff. This is amazing shit. You're doing the like, will he or won't he like hand. This is shades of Arthur Fleck, aka Joker in the film Joker and Amanda being into that. He's got a good walk in it. You know, he's got a presence. Well, he's done something so smart,

which is he basically mastered the Stellan Skarsgård accent. So he sounds just like Stellan Skarsgård. We now know that Austin Butler's whole thing is I can change my voice. Sure. And so now he sounds like he is the nephew of the Baron.

I saw him on, it was basically like the Today Show or some morning show. And the host was like, Austin, did you really shave your head? And he was like, well, I was actually making another movie right after this called The Bike Riders with Jeff Nichols. And he really didn't want me to shave my head. It was on Graham Norton. And he was telling this story to Jodie Foster and Olivia Colman.

Nobody gave a shit about bike riders. It was like, you know, bike riders. Oh, man. And it was just kind of like, cool. Yeah. His hair is in a whole different set up there. riders like there was like you know bike riders oh man and it was just kind of like cool yeah his hair isn't a whole different they tied it up there they tied the the thing goes all the way to his eyebrows so he didn't even have to shave his eyebrows but it took three hours in the makeup chair and olivia coleman and jody foster were like no thanks just shave my head really yeah

oh that's funny yeah um it was a good bit so this is after he hit on all of them just like i saw that i mean my guy mean, my guy. That's my guy. You know what I'm saying? You think he got it on with Olivia Colman? No, but I think that they had a nice moment. After we've been introduced... Well, did the black and white thing work for you guys,

I guess is the question. You mentioned, Chris, that this is a bold move. I think it's like I will remember it for a really long time. I mean, it feels, I think very purposely like fascistic, fascistic propaganda filmmaking. Yeah. Uh, it's a third Reich.

Yeah, absolutely. The references are very clear. I don't really, I like, I have a weirdly like I am cognizant of Dune without ever having read the novels, but I've seen the Lynch movie.

I've seen the sci-fi miniseries. I've seen these movies. So like one thing that is interesting is that Dune has so many, the world, the universe of Dune has so many worlds and different like kind of environments that we don't get to see

so much in these movies. So it was kind of neat to see like a completely different sort of ecosystem, so to speak. The black sun of the Harkonnen planet. I thought it was interesting the way that they shifted us into that experience because it's not the entirety of those sequences. I think the,

you know, the moment with the Leia Seydoux character, or even when we first see the Baron arriving at the Coliseum, we see him in the normal way that the film is photographed. It's only when they arrive like at the center of the gladiatorial space that it makes that change. So it's almost like it's kind of an inverted psychedelia. You what i mean it's like it's cutting out all of the color to show you like that there is like a plainness to this barbaric lifestyle that these people are leading um we still don't have crowds down i think that this part is going to look pretty bad on tvs yeah yeah i i mean i like i have to be honest that's the one time in the entire movie where I was like, no, those aren't real

and you guys don't have it. Yeah. And that's, I mean. I wonder if the black and white hurt them in that respect. No one, I think that there's

some sort of contrast that makes it more obvious, but also, like, no one has figured crowds out. It's like the number one problem in CGI filmmaking right now. I don't think the people

of Pittsburgh ever got over Dark Knight Rises. You know, they were like, hey, we're here to see fucking Ben Roethlisberger right

and it was just like actually like yeah I think part of the issue there is that this is a movie that is largely shot on location and that part is not

so you can tell right away we cut back to Paul Paul is trying to resist these visions of the holy war his mother wants to go south she wants to basically convince the weak-minded

that her son is in fact the Messiah. That voiceover and her walking around the sort of Fremen camps being like, what we have to do is like slowly, one by one,

turn people towards this idea of this Messiah here is so, so cool. Very quickly after that, we see that Paul is reunited with Gurney. Gurney, Halleck, the Josh Brolin character who has been working as a smuggler.

When we first see him, he's playing what appears to be a modified 12-string mandolin and singing a song about how his still suit smells like piss. You're a huge Brolin guy. I am. You're the number one advocate for Sicario. I am. Do you think that he... What do you think of him in these movies?

I think he's doing, like, a great job of being, like, Michael Caine or whatever, you know,

which is just like, I'm here to, like, sort of bounce ideas off of, and pull the hero in a certain direction. He's obviously supposed

to be the militaristic, still, like, traces of House Atreides influence on Paul's life and he's like, the first thing he does in this year of Oppenheimer is says, look,

we got some nukes that we could send. Let's just do that. And I just, I think he's having a great time and is again, another awesome actor, full bloom movie star taking a 15 minutes of screen time, cumulatively part to, and just doing the most that he can with it,

just like Bardem and just like Rebecca Ferguson, to some extent, Stellan Skarsgård, yeah. He meets, he reconnects with Paul during the sequence when there's essentially like another raid on another Spice production machine. That's the moment when you see these like metal panels. Yeah, it's like almost like doors being blown off, but they're explosives.

They fly through the air and attach themselves. And that was the thing I was saying, I've never really seen that before. Just very, very cool design again in this movie. We see Rabban

is stripped of his leadership officially. Fade takes over. And then the movie kind of goes flying through time. Like, I feel like everything that happens after this moment

when Fade starts attacking the Arrakis in the north, a lot, I don't know how much time is transpiring and a lot is moving very quickly. And I don't know if that's because they're trying to keep like a propulsive feeling through the third act. This is the one point of the movie where I think my TV brain kicked in a little bit. And I was like, well, how could he, how did he know where the hideout was? Right, right. brain kicked in a little bit and I was like, well, how could he, how did he know where the hideout was? But, but Bautista didn't. And how did like they get from here to there and how long, how much time has passed and why is Johnny in a,

in a, in a helicopter now instead of riding a sandworm, like little things like that, that I think at a TV episode would just be like, and now she's going to do this and now he's going to do that. And then he finds this. You can feel them just carving out little sequences of exposition yeah sure um it's not incoherent at all but you might just be like wait why are we over here yeah and the only thing they're they're

doing sequences and exposition but you are kind of losing some of the character connective tissue and and i think in a movie that is so to to Chris's point, like really careful about Paul's quote unquote journey, I guess, and his motivations and the varying forces that are vying for his powers and his mind and what makes him do what he does. Like I started to lose it a little bit. Yeah. It's asking you to hold on to a lot in a short period of time. Because basically from this point forward, fate attacks, Johnny's best friend is killed in a very dramatic moment. And then we see that Paul is going south,

effectively to realize his destiny. Right. He's going to take the water. south effectively to realize his destiny right but he also like he has spent a third of the movie being like i can't go south i can't go south because he's having i have these visions of horrors and then and people just start saying like the fundamentalists are down there and the fundamentalists are waiting for you but he can't go see the fundamentalists and so there is like there's a lot of information

and motivation coming to you that I like I didn't like quite trip on it because you get the broad strokes

but I was like okay like who are the fundamentalists I think also because of the way the film ends which I won't not to get ahead of myself

is just because a lot of the second act is Paul kind of pledging his humanity to Johnny and being like, as long as I'm breathing, I'll love you. And like, I'll always be with you. You know what I mean? Like there's like this insistence.

I'm one of the Fremen. I'm not here to lead you. I'm here to- Exactly. And so there's this- He's rejecting the destiny that his mother is insisting upon. But then all of a sudden it changes. And then he makes a choice.

He flips. He decides to go to the South. As soon as he gets to the South, he drinks the water of life. I guess you guys had mentioned that in the books, a long period of time is supposed to go by after he has drank it and been kind of like paralyzed effectively.

No, well, the coma is supposed to be like quite a long time. I don't know how long, but like- In the movie, it feels like 10 minutes. Yeah, it happens so 10 minutes. Yeah. It happens so fast. And that's one of my main questions is like, as you said, he just like changes his mind.

And he's like, cool, I'll go south. And I'll drink the water of life. But like, why? I think we're meant to believe that like it's an act of desperation because they won't be able to survive Fade's attacks.

Right. You know, that like the Harkonnens have figured out how to fully like destroy what they've been trying, at least plan that they've had to kind of undermine

their plan. And even Johnny's best friend says to him like, these people won't go south without you and they have to to be able to survive.

Yeah, because he's like, I'll stay behind and protect your back. Yeah, but it happens. That's one of the ones where like I felt the quickness

and I was kind of like, wait, what? Like, oh, okay. I think also Jessica is basically seeding this for quite some time. Yeah. But in the sort of spectacle of the action sequences, that can get a little bit lost. So he does eventually take the water of life.

He is revived from his coma because he is the prophet. The prophecy is real. And Johnny is a critical part of this story because her name means desert spring the desert springs tears are what can revive the messiah when after he's drank the water of life trinity and neo again very much that um he is revived she i think zendaya is very good in this movie and she's able to kind of portray with not a lot of dialogue how torn she is about this experience. How like overwhelmed,

you know, she does have the voice used on her to get her to do this, which I thought was a really funny little moment because she would not

be willing to do it. We'll get to the voice. I want to talk about the voice a little bit here. But he has like one final vision and in his final vision he sees his sister

who's played by Anya Taylor-Joy, which I think it's a real shame that this was spoiled before we all saw this movie because when she showed up, it should have been like an incredible cameo reveal.

And obviously, she'll play a bigger role as the series goes on in all likelihood. But also that the Baron is his grandfather, which is definitely not something that I,

or his father, his grandfather. Yeah, Jessica's father. Jessica's father. Which is, that's a tough beat, you know?

Like, if that's your granddad, that's not, that's not what you want. Yeah, just the Benny Jezzer, it's just day schem stay scheming they really do they're keeping all the houses somehow yeah intertwined so that they can retain power and then what what what comes next is like a i think a really make or break kind of scene for the movie which is that paul needs to effectively

enter the house of the fundamentalists and he can either do what they want him to do, which is to battle a warrior and show that he should take the warrior's place to lead them. Stilgar. Stilgar would be that warrior, the Javier Bardem character, or do what Paul wants to do,

which is not have a battle and just proclaim himself the Messiah and basically rally the troops. And he does it with a little close-up magic. He just goes up to a guy and he's just like, your grandmother died 12 years ago. And they're like, holy shit. It's a little bit more of that,

whatever that guy did on the Hard Knocks guy at the beginning of this season, you know, where he was just like, you're going to lose a game 19 to 17 in week 12. You're going to rush for 114 yards. He's like, I am the Muad'Dib. I will lead you into the promised land. He also,

within that speech, also has the classic moment of saying the name of the movie, you know? Where it's just like, the planet, as it was called then,

Dune. And I was like, yeah! In the first film, Baron Harkening got to say that when he's like, my Dune.

I didn't remember that, so I was really excited. I was like, we did it. What did you guys think of Chalamet's performance in this scene? Just in terms of physical stature, Denis Villeneuve does not do a lot to hide that

Tim Chalamet is a guy who's a little bit more slight. You were always aware that you were not looking at a brick shithouse chris hemsworth diesel guy subtly over the course of especially after he takes the water starts chewing him from lower and lower angles he is using a deeper voice he even when he's not using the voice he he's using a deeper voice. He's way more direct. He is way more authoritative. So it did really work for me. Him as Captain Badass is still something that I'm wrapping my head around,

but I think that's really more of a testament to the kind of roles he has played up until now, which are more sensitive or goofy or wonky-y or teenage heartthrob, kind of. I will say that both Chalamet and Zendaya have a very contemporary way of talking. A very modern accent. I think it works for this movie. A lot of the other actors, some of them are English or they're from Europe,

or some of them are more classically trained actors who are using a kind of elocution that is different. Zendaya is just doing the Euphoria voice. She's just like, I'm not going over there. You know, like it's not,

there's no attempt to create this Shakespearean pronouncement. I think it works. I do too. It's interesting though because I think he's at his best in this scene

when he's speaking the foreign language. That, when he's just like, and I will be the ruler. Yeah, when he has to go into St. Crispin's Day, like register, it's when he's just like and i will be the ruler yeah when he has to go into saint christmas day like register it's he's you can tell that he's like but like isn't that a bit

of the character and on purpose i wanted to know what you thought about that it's not um that he's assuming something that is like made up by other people and he's like making this decision to try to do it but it's not totally natural and he's not totally there yet and also like yeah and also that the the movie is communicating skepticism about this character this idea um and and whether you're supposed to be rooting for him and whether he really is supposed to be like swole Chris Hemsworth up on the thing. Yeah, I guess I kind of, I know this is sort of sacrilegious,

but I kind of compare, think of it as like in The Godfather, it's set in the 50s or the, you know, whatever. But like they're all acting like people from the 70s. Yeah, yeah. And so I kind of like the fact that this is this sci-fi opera,

but they're acting like people who have Instagram accounts to some extent. Yeah. It didn't bother me. I will say, even though I felt myself being skeptical

throughout the length of the speech, when he completes it and everyone stands up, I was like, I will also go to war for Muad'Dib. Yeah, he's like that

college basketball coach. Let's go! But that is sort of, I think think the intention i think so too yeah you know the thing that i trip on in this scene is again like i don't totally understand that character's motivations and like how he gets to that to paul's and i think the water of life has changed him yeah i think that's sure so and and, you know, I have some general questions about the water of life and, like, what all this is standing in for

symbolically and, like, what we're supposed to, you know. Like, is this movie just about, like, if you take drugs you're going to be a real psycho?

Like, I don't actually think that that's it. No, I think it's the opposite. I think it is. I think it is the opposite. Yeah. But are we supposed to see then that like,

because he took the water of life, like he finally, finally found his destiny. But I don't, I don't think that this. I think that, I think the movie is like an ecological parable about how faith and spirituality work in concert with the natural world.

And so like, if you read about what Frank Herbert's ideology is, it's like, the whole thing is like a metaphor for the mushroom. And that the mushroom is this like and fungus, the lifeline of a fungus is this representative way that the world like adapts and evolves to survive over time. And so the spice combined with the water of life, which is like something that comes from a living creature, is the way that we like move through the world. We like we consume animals. We eat plants. We need, we consume animals, we eat plants.

We need these things to survive through time. And also above us is something more powerful. Above us is something that is driving our ability to like sustain in these environments. I think that that's like, at least like the baseline of what he's imagining in this world. And so drinking the water of life while also consuming more and more spice

while living in the desert has helped him evolve into his highest self it's a little bit of like as is i take alpha brain yeah you know but it's also like the political machinations of like his mother the betty jeseret also stilgar who has just spent his life waiting for someone like this to come along and now that he's got it he's going to make sure that every single decision he makes is somehow a prophecy fulfillment. You know, like all of these things kind of like roll up in the same way that like, I don't know, like Kennedy was both like his father buying votes, but also like represented the hopes and dreams of a generation. Right.

The paradox of being the natural chosen one, but also not being able to get there without the powers of structure putting you there in the first place. Right. Which intersects with this big idea of like the white savior in this land of non-white people. I mean, I think what I'm tripping on is like the inherent skepticism of the white savior or the Messiah

that is built into the story. And I do think is evidenced in the movie. It's not like, you're not just like, yeah, Timmy, you did it. Well, they didn't cast John David Washington at all. Basically like, so like, you're not just like, yeah, Timmy, you did it. Well, they didn't cast John David Washington at all. Basically, like,

so, like, just moving forward in this story, because I think that the movie, the thing that everybody will be talking about happens in the last 15 minutes of the film. He challenges the emperor

once he is officially claimed being the Lisan al-Gaib. He accepts. The emperor comes down, and I guess, is that another testicle to you? His floating metal orb? Those might be ovaries.

Ovaries. Okay, interesting. I like that. I mean, but there is a lot of different reproductive imagery at play. Walken's emperor, Emperor Padish,

scolds the Harkonnens. Honestly, he's got some good points. It's like they never investigated this whole other part of the planet they're supposed to be dominating to see if it's occupied or not. It's not Skarsgård's complete some good points. It's like they never investigated this whole other part of the planet they're supposed to be dominating to see if it's occupied or not.

It's Don Skarsgård's, like, complete exoneration. Yeah. And then there's a sneak attack that is led by Muad'Dib in which thousands of Fremen and sandworms rise up and land upon Arrakeen.

I thought this was going to be, like, Helm's Deep, and they kind of, like, cut to shit is over. Yes. They win very quickly, clearly. I think in part because one thing we forgot to mention is that Gurney Halleck shows Paul earlier in the film

that his father had a stash, conveniently I would say, of atomic weapons. Yeah, I mean, Chekhov's atomic weapons. Very much so. Sure. But each house has them. Yes, so sure. So I have some. It's weapons. Yeah, I mean, Chekhov's atomic weapons. Very much so. Sure. But each house has them. Yes. So, sure.

It's canon. Yeah, sure. I have some questions about that as well. How are your atomic weapons doing these days? Is it House Dobbins or House Barron? It's House Dobbins. Okay. And they're hidden in...

But is Zach Barron Barron? Yeah. Barron of House Dobbins? Well, he's now Barron Barron. What's that? Now Barron Barron. Oh, now Barron. Yeah, sure. Yeah, of course. Certainly Baron Baron. What's that? Nah Baron Baron. Oh, nah Baron. Yeah, sure.

Yeah, of course. Our arsenal is hidden in plain sight. Okay. You know? So, just where, you know. So, your garage. Those atomic weapons that we see earlier in the film are used on Arrakeen. And, you know, I think it's a huge reason why they yada yada.

So, that a storm comes through and basically knocks out the shields. Yes. And then we find ourselves with like a confrontation where Muad'Dib is face to face with the emperor and the emperor's guard and the Harkonnens. He effectively kills the baron. Yeah. It's more

than effectively. He puts a knife into his throat. And he says grandfather right before he does it. Yes. And that's when when he does that, it's like, ah, shit's getting dark. Yeah. The movie definitely doesn't get any rosier after that. They somehow make a shift, right? Yeah, it's like take the prisoners up to this part and then he goes upstairs and he's kind of like...

They're in like a new room. They're in like overlooking Arrakis. Other houses are amassing outside to maybe, to maybe attack. It's like a patio vista situation. Right. And so Paul demands that the emperor

kneel before him and kiss his ring and that he should be the new emperor. The emperor's like, I'm not doing that. The emperor has to choose a warrior to fight on his behalf. Fade Rautha

offers up his services. He's just been licking his lips for the last 30 minutes of this movie waiting for this moment to have this battle. They have a fight scene. What'd you think

of the fight scene? Good. Good. I agree. It was good. Good. It was good. He takes like some

pretty deep stab wounds and keeps on ticking for Paul. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Resident from that guy got stabbed 40 times in Scream 6.

And we were like, how'd that guy live? Like Paul just took one right in the kidney. And then Villeneuve was like 40 times in Scream 6. And we were like, how'd that guy live? Like, Paul just took one right in the kidney? And he's like, ah, Scream 6. A core influence. It's also, I mean, it's just amazing because it's the two young guys finally getting their, you know, their climactic.

You've been waiting the whole movie for these two guys to fight. It's a good knife fight. It's a good knife, but it's like a knife fight. But then it's like, who's like on the perimeter? Okay, you've got Javier Bardem. You've got Josh Brolin. You've got Rebecca Ferguson. You's a good knife fight. It's a good knife fight. But it's like a knife fight but then it's like who's like on the perimeter? Okay, you've got Javier Bardem. You've got Josh Brolin.

You've got Rebecca Ferguson. You've got Charlotte Rampling. You've got Christopher Walken. You've got Florence. I mean, you've got Zendaya. It is just like... Yeah, no one uses any special powers

and is like, you know, use the voice to blow his head up or anything. Like, they're just like... It's just like the world's greatest actors just like sitting around watching.

Just not talking. It's very funny yeah uh it is a nice echo of the end of the first film which also ends with a knife fight um there's a great shot of brolin when when uh shall we get stabbed and it looks he's like this guy's gonna fucking die this is mistake stillgar never blinks though he's like you know yeah that's muad'dib he's not gonna die uh i forgot to mention the my favorite part of the movie which is when chalamet screams silence while using the voice at Charlotte Rampling.

And then what does she say afterwards? She's like, abomination. I laughed out loud. Charlotte Rampling, undefeated. Yeah. Absolutely. Is Charlotte Rampling in any of the several upcoming nun exorcism movies?

Because there's Immaculate and then there's the Omen prequel, right? She could do them for the rest of her life and win she's just fantastic in these kinds of movies and so eventually he does he overcomes Fade he kills Fade your boy Butler dies sadly Walken still

refuses to well Walken is like I have to kiss the ring but the other houses are kind of they're still so Brolin is just like making a phone call I mean that stuff is really weird

where he's just like send a message to the other houses and like Josh Brolin walks over the fax machine you know yes and then he comes back

basically the most crucial wait do you think they use Cyberdust there? does Cubes' messaging service still exist? I'm not sure

I couldn't say when is the most crucial sort of moment does it happen before or after the fight? Cyberdust couldn't say. When does the most crucial sort of moment happen before or after the fight? Cyberdust would be a good name for the movie Dune.

It would be a great name for a next Michael Mann movie if he doesn't want to keep two. There's obviously this huge political negotiation that

happens with... It's not really a negotiation. No. You walk in Niels and Chalamet is like, I will take your daughter as my wife.

We can rule together. Smash cut to Zendaya. And he has just said to Zendaya for the second time in this movie that I will always... No matter what happens, I will love you as... Not no matter what happens. I will love you as long as I breathe. But his heart... He also stops breathing during the knife fight.

But he's also like not... His heart is not in it when he says it. There is, like, something has taken him over. And he's, like, saying it, but it's, like, a zombie saying it. Yeah. We had the good fortune of seeing this movie with Van, Van Lathan. And when he chose Florence Pugh and chose to marry her to, you know, for the better of the empire, I guess. Was he like, God damn.

Yeah. That smash cut to Zendaya's face. It is this movie's I am your father moment. I mean, this movie also has an I am your father moment. It does. But it is quite literally, I guess, grandfather. But yeah, you're just like, oh. And it's interesting because the next 10 minutes of the film are are very dark you know it's like Johnny leaves

Paul has been married into the imperial family that he is sworn to destroy his mother is now essentially in charge of like the Bene Gesserit or like some faction of it, I guess. She and Charlotte Rampling have some like telepathy conversation. Nothing is said. Yeah, you bet on the wrong side. And then Charlotte Rampling's like,

you should know there are no sides. And then Josh Brolin comes back and is like, we got a fax back and the other houses have declined to acknowledge your ascension. It's literally that. And Paul is like, I declare holy war. Yes.

And that's how the movie ends with like Johnny being exiled. And now it's a very interesting choice that Villeneuve makes because it's this triumphant, gorgeous, huge Hollywood score playing. While essentially like all the hopes and dreams of many people have been shattered. Well, there's one thing where he yells, take them to paradise about the Fremen. And they're all getting on

ship. Send them to paradise. So they're all getting on ships. Are they being relocated? I don't know where the war will be waged i mean we can talk about that when we talk about what happens next i will say i thought it was a i felt chills with the decision to end the movie with johnny i thought that was such a smart idea that beautiful yeah you know one obviously like holding on her face the special effect of her face and then the sense that she's going to go right off and basically like make her own story

make her own fate her own destiny riding off with a shy halud. And also that there's like to convey that idea that you're talking about, that there is a toll to these kinds of things. When the way that power works this way, there are victims of these machinations and she's a victim. She's a person who without her, he would not be where he is. And he has to cast her aside so that he can ascend in the way that he needs to. And that she is the collateral damage. Obviously,

you know, assuming there's a third film, I suspect we'll see Johnny again. But, and in many ways, perhaps they are destined for each other. You guys have read

the various Wikipedia pages of the... It's complicated. Okay. Interesting. I don't really want to know what happens. I'm not going to tell you.

I won't tell you either. I'm sorry I sent you that one screenshot. That's okay. I didn't read it. She is, she's, I mean,

she's around. And obviously, like, casting Florence Pugh in this movie to wear a headdress and say, but he's a psychopath

is because she would also be around. And Anya Taylor-Joy as well. Yes. Well, that one I felt confident about. So now you've got, we didn't even mention

that Anya Taylor-Joy, also another person who has emerged in the last 10 years as a movie star who's also in this movie. It's like they really pulled the whole team together for this one. I mean, there has to be another Dune movie.

I would be stunned if there's not another Dune movie after this. I do love the second movie in great trilogies like this. Do you think Zaz is going to be like, can we do like an Anyone But You 2 Dune? Like Anyone But Dune? How do we get Sid Sweeney in this movie, you know? That's the big question. Where would Glenn Powell fit?

What house is he a part of? Maybe that's where the new law school is that she goes to is on Arrakis. She was just a simple lawyer trying to meet a guy. And that guy's name was Paul Atreides. This is a pretty amazing movie. I definitely would like to see it again. I did feel the second time the,

you know, the first time you're watching a movie like this, you're trying to just like, hold on. Yeah. You're trying to just be like, how do I, how do I understand everything? Where are we going?

What's next? You know, what is the, what is the sandworm and the Bene Gesserit and what is it that they're doing here? The second time around, you feel the, like, just the,

the things were, it felt like some things were cut out in an effort that this not be a three hour and 16 minute movie. That it being under three hours was like part of the goal aside from that i don't really have a ton of notes um i felt like it was like i said thematically much stronger to me i also think that this is a movie that's going to uh support multiple readings both of its like contemporary political echoes it's what it says about religion, what it says about white savior complex, what it says about tons of things. I think there's going to be

a lot of thought and discussion about the movie. I hope in a pretty interesting and healthy way. Just because I think it's a movie that's got shoulders to support it. I think it's an interesting, thoughtful, and very deep film

that also functions as like this fucking sandworm ride for two and a half hours. Yeah. Like most great genre epics, you know,

that there is a way to kind of read into the movie if you want to read into the movie, but you don't have to to enjoy it. I mean,

can I give you guys some of my readings of what this movie is about? Go for it. Even though I have not read the book, so if it's a miscommunication, as I said, I do think you guys some of my readings of what this movie is about? Go for it. Even though I have not read the book, so if it's a miscommunication, as I said,

I do think that Villeneuve... Amanda and I will correct you if you're wrong. Please do. I expect that in all cases on this podcast. It's obviously a movie about power

and how power is like acquired and retained. And it's usually, as in most Villeneuve movies, through like corrupt, violent, immoral ways. Yes. Power and religion religion power and wealth power relationships power and communication it's kind of a movie about spectacle made with

spectacle yeah you know that there's this idea there's a theater to like if you can do this if you can ride the sandworm everybody will believe in you right right exactly and also you can make dune everyone will believe right but also that like the most powerful thing in the universe is the thing that allows us to travel in an interstellar way that you know like that is the most breathtaking thing an important

thing that can happen in the world and it's there's a war for that very specific thing I'm interested in what you guys think about the white savior aspect of this we touched on a little bit we talked about the first movie. It feels like an examination of that. In some cases, it feels like it's kind of valorizing that, where it's like sometimes you do need a person to come into an undeveloped world

and move that people into the future. And in other cases, it feels like it's taking that idea apart and saying that that's not the way that it works at all. That in fact, it's the Fremen who are responsible for freeing themselves there's a figurehead at the top of this right but that the people of the community are the people who will take power and also ultimately as we learn from his visions like they are they freeing themselves you know that like this this person is coming and paul is told and all his visions he will bring like untold carnage and horror you know so it's like it's not a savior thing um i feel like you know some of this is just

like how much is the like the origin like the actual frank herbert mythology pinned down you know and also that was something that was written that's in the 60s and so are the world at large and and and certainly like his um his mushroom enhanced understanding of it is it's like complicated right like does it jfk had just been killed like does it totally totally update to 2024 and can it like i don't know i think the movie does a good job of communicating skepticism, even as it's like, and that idea of the complications of the idea of a messiah or a, you know, or a hero. You know, it still is like a movie and we are trained in that format to root for the hero of the movie to win the final battle and have a glorious, rousing speech. So some of it is like format and just like the tension in what we're being told and how we're being told it. I think it's interesting that in both of these films, the final climax

is really more symbolic and emotional than it is physical. It doesn't end with slaying Sauron. This guy wins two day fights across two movies that push his agenda really much further and ultimately makes a politically expedient decision with his heart,

which may or may not still be there after all of the transformations, both hallucinogenic and otherwise, that he's gone through. And I think that that actually is like a really cool, unexpected kind of transgressive thing to put in a blockbuster movie. I mean, you're supposed to defeat

the final boss in that. And it's like, Fade's a badass, but you kind of get the feeling like, I think if we've seen movies before, we probably know Paul's going to win this one. I like the fact that both of these films, both in the first one after the knife fight with Jameis and then at this one

with Fade, like, there's like an, there's a feeling of like, what have we done? Like, are we sure this was a good idea

to push this forward? And I think Villeneuve is a lot more skeptical about it than maybe the score to the film is. Like, the music comes on

and you're just like, he fucking did it he killed them arrakis is free he's got a new girlfriend but we'll talk about that in the next movie and instead it's like i think that the film because it follows johnny out the door and onto a sandworm and into the desert is much more like this may have not been this may not have been the best outcome yeah and even the way that reveal hits and Vans response of like how dare you you

know that's that's we've spent like an entire two and a half hours being like Zendaya is like a angel like like she's she is both like grounded but also like so supportive of Paul and

so that is like it's a gut shot when that happens I have a couple of other readings that is like it's a gut shot when that happens i have a couple of other readings okay i think it's a very good representation of the way that ecological disaster divides people across race class gender that like when something like this happens because this is a fight for natural resources that's the the whole point of the movie. That it's clear that like everything that is different about the person next to you

comes into play when something as titanic as this happens. That's a little bit of a hard idea. Like don't look up as a movie that is about that in some ways, right? That's hard to do stories like that and not have them feel like a little thuddingly obvious.

I think this is like a little thuddingly obvious i think this is like a very obvious version of that story done very well but it's also a movie that's just like men are violent and like to pillage and women quietly control power you know which is like that's also yeah but it's interesting to hear like there's a conversation that happens in the film where johnny and paul are talking about paul's home planet and how they go swimming. And she's kind of like, isn't, doesn't that happen in this? Yeah.

And she's like, I don't believe you. And she's like, I don't believe you. And like the idea that like the environmental differences between people's experiences are, are as significant as anything else. And that, uh,

what Paul's attracted to with the spice and the vast open spaces. And Johnny's like, I don't understand how you can come from some place that has rain. And one of Paul's visions is a kind of merging of the two worlds, which is essentially oceans on Dune.

This transformation that he sees, it's essentially taking something and making it into more like his home planet. All that stuff is fascinating to me. But it's handled almost like impressionistically it's never really explicit yes um my last thought is the drugs are cool and fun is one of the messages of this movie yeah i mean it's definitely a drugged out movie i i guess i watch it in a very literal way and i'm like to what extent is spice supposed to be mushrooms and

what to what or lsd or you know whatever and um a trip and to what extent is it supposed to be oil um you know and like and and and i you know i guess i think both both and and and that even kind of intersects geopolitically and you know financially and uh in imperially or you know colony wise as history goes on um so it is like pro drugs but there is also that thing of these people are all going insane and ruining entire worlds literally over a natural resource. It's like, it's not all good, right? It's not all good. Yeah. No, but there's consequences to drugs.

I think it's definitely true. A couple of quick things before we go. The last movie made like $435 million worldwide. Obviously, it was released in year two of the pandemic. Will this movie make more than $700 million worldwide? I'm going to say say yes although i will say it helps to like it's not easy to understand dune and it's not easy to understand like what dune's about and sometimes i do see like here and there like is this is this

movie about like cinnamon like what is going on here like like and so i i don't i think being part two and being like part of a package i think lots of people have had a chance to really immerse themselves in it but i do wonder whether there's like a little bit of a ceiling on it but you know i'm optimistic i don't know it's not easy to understand what what are the rings yeah what are they the infinity gems sure yeah. Right, like that. I was like, okay, you have to collect them from this guy's head. You know, what? Yeah, but that's totally...

Let's not relitigate that. But I'm just saying, like, you know, on the one hand, it's all really stupid and doesn't have, like, a lot of, like, allegorical heft. I feel like the storytelling to that is a lot more welcoming, where it's like, Infinity Gems, next thing you know, we're going to have to... But this, to me, is, you know i it's my stupid brain watching both of them and it's it's like fine even if you think it's about cinnamon you know then cinnamon has special powers in this world people can go along with that like what do they care i think this movie unlike the first one has

more spectacle that allows you to kind of yada yada your way through some of the more complicated conceits um the last movie got 10 Oscar nominations, including Best Picture and Best Director. Was he nominated for Best Director? I believe he was. Well, he will be this year. Do you think more than 10? Well, just given the list of movies coming out this year, I think he's got a pretty good shot at it. The movie won six, all below the line.

This movie is bigger and better. It is being released early in the year. I don't really think that's a huge deal anymore. We've seen the last few years that movies that are released earlier in the year. But are you looking at the Oscar nominations for the film? Yeah, and I don't think he was nominated. Maybe he was not. Maybe that's what it was. Maybe I'm forgetting that he was

quote unquote snubbed. I think that's pretty silly that he wasn't nominated especially in a COVID year. Kenneth Branagh, though, was nominated for Belfast. Are you serious? Yeah. So it was Jane Campion who won for Power of the Dog. Kenneth Branagh for Yusuke Hamaguchi for Drive My Car.

Your boy, Paul Thomas Anderson for Licorice Pizza. And then Steven Spielberg for West Side Story. All those are good except for Kenneth Branagh. That's actually atrocious that they did that. Anyway, I do think he'll be nominated this time around. I also think that this will be the return of the king for this series.

Do you? See, that's what I was going to ask you because if there's another movie, you don't think they'll wait. It's like, things are going to get real weird. Yeah, and dark. In the story.

Yeah. Yeah, and like, and kooky, and also messed up. I think he'll make a third but I I think it has to just be like the question for me is like when do they announce it

are they gonna announce it this week or are they gonna announce it I think he's going to make another movie before he makes the third one he has been pretty insistent about that I don't know like he's he has said over and over again

I need a quick break there's no reason to do this before it's ready I'm sure there's tons of stuff in the contracts of the people that are signed on for it, but you do have a lot of really high profile people that need to reconvene for this. And also like, I think he has been sort of charged with being like the over, like overseeing the dune kind of the world.

This show has not worked out. Like I'm sure if this is a hit, Warner's is going to be like, yo, come on. Is this his best movie? No. And I have a very simple way of explaining this.

Please. I think to some extent, like he's getting gotcha'd a little bit with this stuff about screenplays and the written word and all that stuff. So silly. But Sicario is clearly the best written film of his filmography to me,

like to me. Like, to me. And I think Arrival is a close second, and I think both of those films have excellent screenplays that support him being like, I'm going to do incredible set pieces or weird stuff with time travel or perception and things like that are really in his wheelhouse. But I do think that this movie is a step down

in terms of being like a coherent story to me than Arrival and Sicario. I agree completely. Would you, you would do Arrival first and Sicario second? I think so, just, but that's personal preference. I mean, it is, I rewatched Sicario yesterday. I hadn't seen it in a while. What a way to spend a Tuesday afternoon.

Five stars. Five star movie. It is like very closely aligned with Dune 2 in terms of like a person from outside who is being like propped up in order to investigate the systems of powers around drugs. Like it is really,

and no one has morals. Like it's very close. Very close. He really is a filmmaker with a point of view that he returns to, like, thematically returns to over and over again.

I think I agree with what you're saying. I think I'd like a little bit more time and maybe to see Dune Part 2 again. I also think that, I think those are

the three best. Jamie Adams in Arrival and Benicio Del Toro in Sicario are, provide central performances that maybe are

free to do more and be more like, interesting to me than the characters in Dune are allowed to be. And I understand the emotions

and motivations just because it's, you know, they are more grounded in a person. Which, I mean, that's sort of unfair to say to

june 2 which is like a giant sci-fi epic but i i still arrival is arrivals in all time it might just be a matter of personal preference too and sort of like what you want from a movie because all three of those movies are damn good they're basically i guess probably sicario is the one i had the most i had the most like it was the hair was raised on my arms when I was watching that movie and that's maybe the thing that I'm most excited about

you know Sicario means Hitman right what? it means Hitman oh my god wow any other closing thoughts? no I'm excited to see what the response

is going to be to this film I'm excited to read about it and listen to more pods about it and I'm you know see how it feels after people see'm excited to read about it and listen to more pods about it. And I'm, you know, see how it feels after people see it twice and think about it more.

And, you know, I'm fascinated to see, like, if this is just absolute runaway billion dollar movie, if they're like,

what they're going to do about the third one. It's going to be really interesting. It sounds like Villeneuve has a strong vision for Messiah. So,

we shall see. Any closing thoughts, Amanda? I would really like to have like a Patreon episode where Chris and I try to explain to you what happens in Dune Messiah. I do think that people deserve that at some point. And then at the end, she and I can just cry watching Arrival. Yeah.

Any closing thoughts? You wanted to address the speaking to the child thing a little bit you mentioned that or the gestation well we didn't we got into all of my

reproductive concerns we didn't talk about the voice very much which is we didn't one of the coolest things the one thing related to it

is that this movie like the last movie opens with that bracing the power over spices, power over life message at the top of it. Which I think is such an effective way of just like dropping you into the sonic experience of the movie. It's so funny too because it's like it does that and then it does the Warner Brothers logo. Yeah, yeah.

It's like, what the fuck? Something happening in Burbank? But the voice, which is in a similar register as that introduction. Yeah. I wish I could have done the whole pot in the voice. Do you think, like, can you do it?

Think about the power of your ad reads if you had the voice. I know. Simply safe. Apple card. I really would have enjoyed that. This is a great movie.

Why do you think that the voice is James Hetfield? This is as close as I can get to it, unfortunately. I wish I had Charlotte Rampling's voice. All right. This has been fun. Thanks to our producer, Bobby Wagner, for his work on this episode.

I think we'll talk more about Dune next week. I'm not totally sure. I think that's what we're going to do. And then, of course, it's Oscars week. Chris, who do you think is going to win Best Picture? I think the Oppenheimer will win Best Picture. What? Yes.

Crazy stuff. Chris, thanks so much for being here. Thanks for having me. We'll see you next week.