The Big Picture - Eleven Reckless Oscar Predictions. Plus: Bong Joon-ho! | The Oscars Show

Episode Date: October 29, 2019

The nominations are flowing and we're already drunk with takes. Amanda and Sean look at the Gotham Awards noms and the Academy's Governors Awards and predict several key questions about the Oscars, including all six major categories (1:10). Then, Sean is joined by writer-director Bong Joon-ho to talk about making his extraordinary new movie 'Parasite' (65:03). Host: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Bong Joon-ho Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbin. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the Oscars. After a brief mailbag interlude last week, we are back and talking in great detail, Amanda, about awards season. It's here. It's here. Later in the show, we'll have a conversation with a man we hope is nominated come Oscar time. It's Parasite writer-director Bong Joon-ho.

But first, we go back to the awards picture, where on Sunday night, the Academy held its annual Governor's Ball. Governor's Awards, filmmakers David Lynch and Lena Vertmuller were honored, as was actor Wes Studi. Geena Davis was also honored with the Academy's Humanitarian Award.

But what was most notable, to me at least, about the ceremony were the people who were present for it, including a lot of Oscar hopefuls this year, Amanda. Eddie Murphy was there. Tom Hanks was there. Jamie Foxx. The whole Once Upon a Time in Hollywood gang was there. Laura Dern. A lot more. You know what that means. They're all running. They're all running for Oscars. We also got our first round of nominations last week, the Gotham Awards. So let's go straight to the big pictures. Big picture. This is a problem in the big picture.

Do you know what I mean? Okay, Amanda, the Gotham Awards. Yes. What do you know about the Gotham Awards? They are New York based. Yes. Because Gotham is a stand-in for New York. Very well done.

Thank you. And they are indie film awards. and they always have the ceremony pretty early in the season and their speeches are often um really vibrant and kind of make some noise that people are usually recapping them or doing videos of the acceptance speeches that's right the nominations are usually driven by journalists and critics whereas the awards themselves are usually chosen by people in the New York film community. This year's collection of films is interesting, and I think it highlights the New York versus LA aspect of this award show.

I would say that this is a very good collection of films, but not terribly representative of where Oscar is going to be going this year. So let's just mention a couple of the categories and we can talk about what we see. And if any of this really ultimately matters to be going this year. So let's just mention a couple of the categories and we can talk about what we see. And if any of this really ultimately matters to the big race that we talk about on the show all the time. So for best feature, Lulu Wang's The Farewell, the Safdie Brothers' Uncut Gems,

Trey Edward Schultz's Waves, Noah Baumbach's Marriage Story, and Lorene Scafaria's Hustlers. Now, as a human man, these are five of my favorite movies of the year. You truly love to see it. You love to see it. Now, I think this list has been somewhat criticized

for being the A24 awards. Sure. And also Noah Baumbach, a former A24 filmmaker himself. So there's a lot of lineage there. But I don't necessarily, I mean, I think Marriage Story is pretty much a lock for Best Picture. And you got a chance to see it over the weekend. So that maybe we can tease some of that conversation.

I don't know if I'm emotionally ready to talk about it, but yes. These other films, I think The Farewell is probably the one that has been tabbed to have the best chance at Best Picture. But do you see a world in which, I guess, these early award shows do more than just, you know, sort of celebrate the films that we expect to not be recognized come Globes and Oscar season? Or do you think that this is just a forbearer to what's coming? I think this is probably people sharing their passions for the most part and doesn't shift a lot. The only notable storyline in the best feature category for me is Hustlers being in here because that means that people really are taking it seriously as a capital F film in addition to a great kind of unexpected box office hit featuring Jennifer Lopez. So and we talked about that a little bit at the time of like Jennifer Lopez seems like an Oscar contender.

Will people take it seriously? It seems like the answer to that is yes. In some ways, yes. But on the other hand, Jennifer Lopez is not nominated for a Gotham Award, which is kind of fascinating. What are you going to do with randos in the film community?

I don't know. It is people expressing themselves. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of very admirable choices kind of up and down. We don't have to run through every single category here.

I think one thing I like about the Gothams is that it does a lot of awards that I really wish the Oscars would do. For example, they have the Bingham Ray Breakthrough Director Award. And the nominees here are kind of an interesting collection of people. A couple of films I haven't even seen. Lorde de Clermont-Tonnerre.

Am I pronouncing that correctly? That's pretty good, yeah. Thank you. Kent Jones is here. We had him on the show earlier this year. Joe Talbot from The Last Bachman in San Francisco, also on the show. Olivia Wilde this year for Booksmart. And Philip Yeomans for Burning Cane,

which is a film I haven't even seen yet, which has not yet been released. So this is sort of like in the spirit of the indie spirits meets the Oscars meets the New York Film Critics Circle. I tend to think of this award show. And I think the awards themselves are held quite early at the end of this year as opposed to early next year. And you'll be able to stream them live on the internet and you'll get to see some of those

acceptance speeches that Amanda is talking about. But it does feel like a little bit of a lucky to be here kind of award. You know, I see Andre Holland here nominated for High Flying Bird. I'd be pretty surprised if Andre Holland was nominated for Best Actor. Best Actress, likewise, Mary Kay placed for Diane, Elizabeth Moss for Her Smell. These are performances that will be on critics' lists, maybe on your lists. You know, I haven't seen Her Smell yet.

I need to do that. I will do that before the end of the year. I'm saying it in public, so that'll actually happen, probably. How do you feel about being in this moment, this period of awards season where we're like right at the, we're at the gates, we're at the dawn? Excited. I think you and I kind of went through a marathon in the last week. And so we have seen most everything, which is great. There are a few outstanding films, which we'll talk about. And there are a few on my list that I

haven't seen because they were at the festivals and haven't really been screening for critics yet. But we've seen a majority of the things. And I definitely just had a week where I just saw great movies. And I was like, wow, cinema. I was like very moved by a lot of the films that I saw. And so in that sense, I feel hopeful and excited. And you're like, movies are great. We have all the movies. And then I started trying to make my Oscar predictions and started thinking about all of the politics and like reading from what Academy voters had to say and a creeping sense of dread also and anger and resentment started creeping in. So it's, I would say it's a complex emotional time for me personally. How are you feeling? I have the same exact feeling as you. and it's for that reason that we have decided at the back half of this show to make predictions,

to make bold, reckless, quite likely very stupid predictions. Because as you said, we've seen almost everything. Last week, you and I got a chance to see The Irishman. Let me just tell you, The Irishman is good. You should see The Irishman. You had a chance to see Marriage Story. Yes. We had a chance to see Knives Out, which I don't think will be a part of the awards conversation, but which was fantastic. It just, it lived up to my hopes and dreams. Absolutely. I have been screaming about it on a podcast for two months. What else did we see? We see something else? We saw Little Women. Little Women, of course. Of course, Little Women. So all of these movies have now been put in front of us. Here's a very short list of the movies

that neither of us have seen thus far far because we've done a pretty good job of doing our homework to this moment. But so far, we still haven't seen 1917 Sam Mendes' World War I film. We haven't seen Richard Jewell, Clint Eastwood's portrait of the man who was accused of the Atlanta Olympics bombing. We haven't seen Cats.

It's fine that you put this on this list, but I'm mad at you. Cats. Cats coming. Cat season is nearly upon us. We haven't seen Dark Waters, which I think is going to start screening this week. We have not seen

Star Wars Episode IX The Rise of Skywalker. I did read a bit of box office prognostication about Episode IX today. It was kind of grim. Oh interesting. It was like this is on track to be the lowest grossing of the episodes thus far on its opening weekend which I thought was kind of fascinating. Why? Maybe it's because

everybody knows what's going to happen. I read some fan fiction, or not some fan fiction. No, like- Can we just isolate Amanda saying I read some fan fiction? No, but I read some predictions based on nothing. Speculation is what I read about Star Wars that was essentially fan fiction, and I got really upset about it. And I told you about this already. We had this conversation. I don't want to spoil it right now. No, no, let's not do that. Yeah, but I don't know. It people, it seems like people are interested in what happens.

I'm interested in what happens. Was the, was it that Rey is a Wookiee? What was it? No, it's that Rey and Kylo Ren fuck. And I'm just like, again, pure speculation, but let me go on record saying I do not want this as the really casual Star Wars fan who can't remember the title of episode nine, not for me. It's not what you want. The only other movie I can think of that we haven't seen that is going to be competing this year, barring maybe your Frozen 2 in the animated category, is Clemency,

which is an Alfred Woodard movie that premiered at Sundance and has gotten great reviews. And it was pointed out to me that there are two death row movies this year with just mercy and clemency which is kind of interesting but that's only six movies between the two of us so we've done a nice job hopefully we'll have a peaceful december probably not as we go through all of our takes um which of these six do you think is most likely to to mess up the the narratives that we're going to break down later in the show. I have, on the document that I made, I have 1917 written several different times with like 20 question marks. Because I just, you know, I don't know what to do with it. It is obviously a World War I epic with really athletic filmmaking directed by Sam Mendes, which is Oscar bait.

Shot by Roger Deakins, which is how you know it really is. And they haven't, they're releasing the behind the scenes footage of him just like running in trenches. They're really leaning into, we worked really hard to make this, you know, and it's a very showy style of directing. Yes. They're narrativizing the effort. Yes. Which is an interesting thing. We hear a different version of that with someone like Joaquin Phoenix and his performance in the Joker. We heard all about how he lost 52 pounds and he contorted his body and he made this physical transformation. This is the full-scale movie version of what sacrifices were made to achieve something. Yes. And it's so funny because

the movie is not out for still another two months. But I think that's really smart. And the reason I have 20 question marks is because is it too late in the Oscar season to kind of really break through? Because people haven't seen it. And the Oscars season is like a full month earlier this year than it was last year. So we're in a really crunch situation. I think we have learned time and time again that it is harder. The later you get in the season the more crowded it is it's harder to get people invested in your movie you've just created a wonderful segue for our next

segment let's go to stock up stock down okay if it goes bust you can make 10 to 1 even 20 to 1 return and it's already slowly going bust Amanda we saw Little Women last week. And Little Women is one of those December movies that you're talking about. It's one of those movies that there's not going to be a ton of box office evidence to show what a powerhouse it is. But they did start showing the film to various members of the voting bodies and jerks like you and I last Wednesday. And we're not going to say too much about the movie. But did you feel that it got the response that it needed to shotgun it into a race?

Yes, I did. Before we even talk about the response, can I set the scene of our screening? Absolutely. Which was, I believe it was at the DGA. It was. The Directors Guild of America Theater. And Sean and I do go to a lot of screenings. We're lucky enough to be able to see these movies early.

And I think you and I had never seen something like this, which was as close to a full-on physical brawl in order to get seats. There was a frenzy. Little women screening. I don't believe that anyone actually got into a fight. I did watch someone steal a seat from a very pregnant woman,

just like right in front of my eyes shamelessly just someone pointed a seat for the lovely pregnant woman and the other person just sprinted past her. The pregnant woman

in question did get a seat thankfully. I also just got to say shout out to all God bless all the publicists who are running these screenings

and were literally just one in one outing people. Some people were turned away. This seemed like a particularly challenging one to manage. Yes. which is just to say people want to see this movie exactly there is a lot of enthusiasm for this movie and so i think even before it started i was like oh okay that this bodes well for little women and i think the movie delivers on that i think people were um it's it's very moving which is not surprising given that it's little women but it has that emotional journey and that hopefulness that i think everyone entered the screening

wanting from it and it delivers and i i noted after the screening that that kind of hopefulness in the last few years has been rewarded at the oscars i i would you know i don't think we're spoiling anything by talking about how little women ends, but it ends with a bit of positivity, a bit of sunshine. We're having a difficult time in America right now, and people seem to want a little bit of sunshine. A lot of the movies that are going to be competing here that we're going to talk about, I would say they end maybe somewhat happily or with a great deal of wishfulness. Once upon a time in Hollywood, a lot of people pointed out to me, well, that ends happily, but it ends happily in a sort of revisionist way,

not an authentically honest way, which is great, effective for the telling of the film, we know to be completely imaginary. Right, and there is a wishfulness and a nostalgia to it. Exactly. Little Women is operating with a different kind of buoyancy. I wonder if, do you think that this being a many times adapted story that we've seen many times before, even though I will say that Greta Gerwig's version of it is very different. It is a reinvention.

Do you think that something like this that has been done over and over again can go to the highest mountain at the Oscars? You had an interesting turn of phrase there, which is something that we've seen many times before. How many Little Women's have you seen, Sean Fennessey? Zero. Right. And I think that there are a lot of people in the Academy who have maybe seen the 1994 Little Women, which is the kind of most recent reference point,

even though there have been various bad PBS series made in between. But the 1994 one is the one starring Winona Ryder and Kirsten Dunst and Zorandon. I think that that has a very special place in a certain type of viewer's heart, but that person is a woman and there just aren't that many women in the Academy. Yeah, that's pretty... Well, we're going to find out. I think it's still 70% male, I think, something like that. Maybe even more than that, which is interesting. Greta, of course, was nominated for Lady Bird for Best Director and Best Picture. So she's got a little bit, we know she's got some traction with the Academy.

And we know she's got some traction with viewers. People like her movies. They like her. You know, we saw the Q&A after the film. People just, all the actors on stage, from Meryl Streep to Florence Pugh, they all love Greta and they want to be with Greta. And she has advocates, which is something that you really need in this situation. I think this movie does as well. I have to say anecdotally, I've heard more about this movie from the people and specifically the women in my life who otherwise

don't care at all about movies and Hollywood and will never see Joker and don't care about your opinions. And there is just a really different but very excited audience for this. And they're excited for Little Women. I think they care about Greta. They love Timothee Chalamet. You cannot underestimate the power of Timothee Chalamet on the internet. Saoirse, Florence Pugh, it checks a lot of boxes. They're just not the traditional Academy boxes. We're going to have to wait to find out. Let's keep moving through this. Stock up to heaven.

Robert Evans died at 89 on Monday. Terrible news. Legendary figure in Hollywood. One of the biggest figures, I think, in the last 70 years in Hollywood. Peter Biskin called Evans one of the great crash and burn stories of the 70s. In his book, Easy Riders and Raging Bulls. He's been memorialized many times over. There's a documentary about his life called The Kid Stays in the Picture by Nanette Bernstein and Brett Morgan, which is of course based on his memoir, The Kid Stays in the Picture. For those of you who don't know him, he ran Paramount Pictures in the 70s. He's responsible for producing The Godfather and Chinatown and Love Story and Serpico and

Rosemary's Baby and Harold and Maude, and a dozen more. And yet he is also a figure of great conflict and confusion because he is, he was a bit of a ladies' man. He made some mistakes. He had a very sort of famous romance with Ally McGraw that then fell apart when she left him for Steve McQueen. He represents a kind of dashing, maybe bad acting at times version of the swanky producer. He was originally discovered by Norma Shearer when he was sunbathing in Los Angeles and then cast in a movie because he was seen sunbathing. Very interesting figure, one of the great voices in the history of Hollywood. I would just encourage people to kind of seek out not just

the things that he worked on and was responsible for, but the things that he made where he discusses those things. Because he's a great mythologizer. And if you care about Hollywood history, you probably do if you're listening to this show. He's a really, really, really important guy. Any Bob Evans reflections? Well, before we started, I asked you to kind of give me the full breakdown of the Bob Evans versus Francis Ford Coppola Godfather saga because that's the famous like great conflict in Hollywood both what almost happened to ruin that movie but also kind of what he did in order to make the Godfather what it is which is of course

that he chose Coppola as you reminded me yeah he has a unique there's a unique thing about him in Hollywood history which is that there are a lot of stories about how wrong he was about things. You know, there's this famous canard that he really wanted Roman Polanski to direct Downhill Racer, one of my favorite movies, but Roman Polanski was insistent upon doing Rosemary's Baby. And so the idea of Roman Polanski not doing Rosemary's Baby is an extraordinary sliding doors moment. And yet, Robert Evans is also the guy who, even though he wanted Robert Redford to play Michael Corleone, he is the guy who chose Francis Ford Coppola to make The Godfather. And so, you know, being wrong inside of your rightness is a fascinating version of the Hollywood story, and he's a clear representation of that. One stock down, Kanye West did not

conquer Hollywood this weekend. He opened a film on several hundred screens called Jesus is King. I'm going to just say, actually, I think this is stock neutral because I did not believe that this film would be delivered to IMAX theaters across America. I honestly did not believe it, given what I have learned as a person who follows Kanye West for many years now. Your entire adult life. Yeah. So it was actually released on IMAX theaters. I think we have to consider that some sort of achievement. He achieved it. He released the record on Friday to Apple Music and Spotify. It's out in the world. As a person that spent the bulk of my professional career chronicling every single thing that Kanye

did, this was the very first time I felt completely outside of the experience. Can I be extremely honest with you? Yeah. Still have not listened to it. Do you think I will? Let me put it this way. With some distance from the experience of throwing myself at Kanye, I thought it was pretty good.

Okay. I actually thought it was pretty good, and I think it's a big improvement from his last record. And I think it's kind of a one-trick pony. It's a little bit of just continuing to scratch Jesus' back as an intellectual and philosophical approach to moviemaking. Or, excuse me, to musicmaking and also maybe moviemaking. But it's not bad. Whether you want to participate in Kanye West's art now, given everything that's happened in the last couple of years, is kind of a different conversation.

I think what's interesting is that I don't have to as a person who is, tries to stay up on what is happening. I meant to listen to it this morning when I was working. I just like plain forgot,

which just gives you a sense of where Kanye is, at least in my consciousness. I think that's a testimony to everything that's happening to not all musicians, but Kanye in particular, which is that he is just not

at the center of culture anymore. And after two days, we've already kind of forgotten that he had a record, let alone a movie that hit theaters, which is going to slip away very quickly. That is also, it is an interesting anecdote. We do talk a lot about can movie stars open movies and or different types of celebrities, you know, is a YouTube star and influencer

going to be the type of person who could make a movie in the future and people will go see it. Here we have someone who has tried on a lot of different hats over the years, but has a huge following and was like, what I'm going to do is make a movie and people did not go to see it.

So store that away for future reference. Store that away and just please bide your time. Let's take a quick break to hear a word from our sponsor. And when we come back, Amanda and I are going to make, let's say 11 reckless Oscar predictions. Today's episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by Masterclass. Masterclass lets you learn from the best with exclusive access to online classes taught by masters of their craft. You can learn how to make films by learning directly from Martin Scorsese with Masterclass, or you can learn how to play poker by watching Phil Ivey, one of the true masters of the game,

teach you how to do so. With over 60 different instructors across tons of categories, there's literally something for everyone. The Masterclass app is accessible on your phone, web, or Apple TV, and each class is broken out into individual video lessons and downloadable materials, which you can explore at your own pace. Later in the week on this show, we'll be diving deep into the films of Martin Scorsese and ranking our top five movies, so if you want to learn about how he made those movies, just check out his Masterclass, which is indispensable

for young aspiring filmmakers. I highly recommend you check out Masterclass. Get unlimited access to every single Masterclass, and as a listener, you get 15% off the annual all-access pass. So go to masterclass.com slash big picture. That's masterclass.com slash big picture for 15% off Masterclass. Amanda, we're back and that means it's time to go to the big race. Well, mama, look at me now. I'm a star. The big race this year is every race.

Every race is fascinating to me. Before we get into the six major categories of the Oscars, I got some general questions for you. Okay. Okay? Yeah. You ready to make predictions? I mean, I guess. As I said to you before, I've just been spiraling over this list.

I had too much time to think about it. And I have not enough information because I need all the information. And I keep futzing with it. It's terrible. Someone should take this list away from me. I need you to step it up. I need you to be confident. I have a list.

I have a lot of options. I got a lot of, you know, if-then situations. Let's go. This is not algebra. I'm stressed. Okay. Let's start with some vagaries around the award show first. Last year, the Oscars did not have a host and the ratings went up 12%. Do you think there will be an Oscars host this year? Yes. Here's why. Because I just don't think that they learned from any lessons. I don't. I don't. I think also, I believe it was the Emmys this year that didn't have a host. And that went as can bring some it can at least helps with the marketing do you know what i mean in theory yes so if there is a host and i agree with you that there will be

a host okay and if there is a host who will that host be um oh my god you're just wrecked they should get the rock to do it that is exactly what. Yeah, didn't we say that last year? Yes, just get Dwayne Johnson. Just do it. Did I tell the story about the Hobbs and Shaw premiere on this podcast? Yes. Well, I don't know if you told it on this podcast. I'll tell it very briefly.

At the Hobbs and Shaw premiere earlier this year, there were a number of people there who worked on the film, including Dwayne Johnson. There was some sort of malfunction with a light inside of a seat during the screening of the movie. And so everybody had to be evacuated from that seating area and they had to stop the movie about 40 minutes in. It was very tense. It was very scary for a minute. People thought there was a bomb threat of some kind. And when we all stood up, it was clear that somebody needed to take control of the room. And so Dwayne Johnson went to the front of the screening room and he took the microphone and he just started vamping. And he vamped for 20 minutes while they fixed the light in the seat.

And it was very frustrating. But Dwayne Johnson, The Rock, is one of the great entertainers of our time. And he had to have been doing all of it off the cuff because there was nothing to prepare. It was an unpreparable moment. And he was extraordinarily good at it. So if he was good in that moment, imagine how good he would be with a crack staff of writers and all of the weight of the ABC marketing machine behind him. Right. Not to mention one of the most star-packed Oscars in recent memory. Just get The Rock?

Yes. I mean, he's just so charming. At the end of the day, you don't want a host that's going to overthink it. You just want a good old show person who is just like going to make everyone feel glad to be there. And will also bring in a lot of audience who otherwise would not watch it. And Dwayne Johnson is that person. Yes. Imagine all of the WWE fans who would be tuning in just to get a look at Dwayne Johnson in a tux. That would be great.

Okay. So there will be a host. It will be Dwayne Johnson. Great. Will the ratings go down this year? I say yes. Okay. So there will be a host. It will be Dwayne Johnson. Will the ratings go down this year? I say yes. Because I always say yes. Because broadcast television is dying. Now last year, as I mentioned, we had an unusual spike up. Every other award show has been way down since then. Way down. The Emmys were at a catastrophic low this year. To the point of like, do we need the Emmys?

I don't know that we do. The Oscars has stood tall as basically the only truly meaningful award show left on broadcast television.

I think the ratings are probably going to go down this year. Yeah. Because there's not there isn't a Bohemian Rhapsody Stars Born

etc. in the mix unless the Joker wave comes strong. Because Joker is fucking huge. This is the biggest R-rated movie in the history of movies right now. I understand that. And I agree with you

except I just don't think, I don't think people are going to see Joker because they're like, finally, a prestige film that will win an Oscar. I am, you know,

they're going because it has, it's called Joker. You know, great marketing. But do they want to see Joaquin triumph? I guess is a question. No, I don't think they care at all. They're just like diagramming, you know, the timeline between when like Bruce meets Joaquin at the gate and what does that mean? How many days have passed since they're in the alley and you know, whatever nonsense. Do you have answers to these questions? I don't know. I was just trying to channel one of those people and it was really uncomfortable that's you really captured that imaginary person's essence thank you uh i i i

think you're right i think the ratings are likely to go down i wonder if there will be some sort of feeling like we need a black panther every year to make this show work we need a star was born every year i think once upon a time in hollywood is a big hit that nice to have that. I think Little Women will be a big hit. I don't know if it'll be a hundred million dollar hit, but I think a lot of people are going to go see it. I think there's a lot of really likable movies here, but the tricky part is, and if my predictions hold true, and there are three Netflix movies here, on the one hand, what you'll get is a movie that, three movies that a lot of people will have seen. But will they have the same relationship to it if they watched it at home

than if they paid money in a movie theater to go see it? It's kind of a fascinating thing to try to understand that does not have an answer, obviously, about whether people will tune into the show. Right. Well, I think there's even a third thing, which is just how people watch TV. And it doesn't actually,

their relationship to movies doesn't really matter because even if they go see all of the movies, why would they turn on a three hour boring show with commercials? Especially keep in mind, Apple Plus is going to debut this week. Then you've got Disney Plus. Like we are fully in the streaming era and people just don't watch live stuff unless it's football, I guess. The ratings are down for a lot of sports right now too. The World Series ratings have been very poor. So it's really, we're in an increasingly curated experience in the world.

I'm sure that won't be the last time we say that on this show. How many Best Picture nominees will there be? So I have nine right now. Okay. I have 10. Okay. But that's just because I'm an optimist. Great.

And I want as many people to feel love as possible. Okay. As you know, that's my essence. Sure. I think that it's been eight or nine for the past. It has. Five or six years, right? I think it's been a while since we've had 10.

Yeah. Will this be the last year of up to 10 nominees? Because there's been a lot of talk about changing the format of Best Picture. I think that would be a mistake, but I don't know whether the Academy will act with sense. So why do you say that? Because I think in relation to what we were just saying of the way people watch everything is very different now. I don't think that the model for getting people to watch the Oscars going forward is like a Black Panther because people just watch TV differently. You have to instead hope that people

become really invested in a movie and want it to win. And if you have 10 options for people to be really invested in, then you have more people who are going to watch it. I mean, everything is just about a niche cultural experience that you can export to as many people who are interested in it as possible.

Do you think that the Academy writ large, particularly the leadership, is as obsessed with its relevance as we are? This is not a prediction. This is a side question. Yes. I wonder. I wonder. Because it's a business on the one hand, and ratings are meaningful to the business because it will drive the advertising, which will drive the rights to the show. But the Academy itself is a kind of corporate institution that is dedicated to tracking and commemorating history. I think Academy members like being in the Academy. I think that they like feeling important.

It's a club that you want to be a part of. And listen, some of these screenings have been Academy events. I've started to see a little bit of how this works. And it's just they like to be treated well. And I think people care about that. I love to be treated well. Yeah, so do I. It's been delightful.

Thank you to everyone who's had me. But it seems great to be an Academy member. It's true. But so do they care about the business of it? No, I don't think so. I think most people are not aware of what the Academy does. But I do think that there is this self, that super self-interested self-preservation instinct.

It'd be great if there was a rogue change agent inside the Academy that was like, what we need to do is nominate Venom. You know, I made this push for Deadpool a few years ago and it was, of course, somewhat self-effacing,

but I really do think it would be great if somebody came in and they were like, I don't want to say a Donald Trump figure, but somebody who was a little anti-establishment,

a little bit of outside of the bubble culture of the Academy that was just like, guys, why not a quiet place? Like, should we not do that

or should we do it maybe perhaps instead of this very small film that no one will ever see again? I don't know. I think that would just be intoxicating to watch happen. Sure. Isn't that what's going to happen this year with Joker? I mean, Joker is Venom, but I think it's Venom with enough shiny things on it. Yeah, it's in a King of Comedy suit though.

You know, it's not. Sort of. Well, there's a lot of virtue signaling as it were towards those things. Okay. Let's go to the categories, okay? So we got six categories we're going to predict. Okay.

We'll do more predictions in the future, I promise. People fucking love predictions. They love to tell us how wrong we were when we get down to it. I can't promise we're going to be right about the five things we just talked about or these next six categories. I can say that we've seen 95% of the films that are going to be competing in these

categories, and these are our gut reactions. So what we'll do is we'll read our five nominees each, and we'll read who we think is going to win. Okay. You ready? Not at all, but we're going to do this. Best Supporting Actor. Okay. This is a fascinating category. It is. I i'm gonna give you my nominees you give me your nominees and we'll do winners okay i'm going brad pitt once upon a time in america excuse me once upon a time in hollywood wow what a slip brad has been nominated three times he's never won yes al pacino the irishman he's won he's excuse me he's been nominated eight times he won in 1993 he has not been nominated since 1993 okay Tom Hanks A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood

five nominations two wins 1994-1995 Anthony Hopkins The Two Popes four nominations he won in 1992 and then Jamie Foxx

Just Mercy two nominations he won in 2005 he was also nominated in 2005 for Collateral which is a crazy thing that happened okay those are my five

what are your five wow okay I thought we were going four for five we did go I thought we were going four for five. We did go. I thought we were going to go five for five, but we went four for five. I have Brad Pitt, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I have Tom Hanks, Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood. I have Anthony Hopkins for Two Popes, which is one of the movies that I have not seen, but there is just a movement behind it. You know what turned me around? Not turned me around. Not turned me around. But you know what made me feel confident in making some of these choices, even though I have not seen this movie?

Lulu Wang on Twitter saw the two poems last week and was talking about it. I got to tell you, I cannot recommend a follow more than Lulu Wang. It's really great. Everything that The Farewell will do at the Oscars is because of her presence and just great ambassadorship. But I was like, oh, okay. She's moved by it. I get it. I'm going to go with this.

So that's why Anthony Hopkins is on my list. Al Pacino for The Irishman and Joe Pesci for The Irishman. I knew you were going to go Pesci. Now, we're not going to spoil anything about The Irishman. Yeah. I wanted to put Pesci on the list because I was just knocked out by him. Yes. Knocked out.

Yeah. I thought he was phenomenal. And we haven't seen him in a long time, barring the occasional Snickers commercial. And it's a return to form, and it's a different kind of a part than he's played in the past. But my prediction here, well, let me pause for a second. Here are some other names that I left out that were on the sort of almost there list Willem Dafoe in The Lighthouse

who's running and supporting even though you can make the case he's a lead Pesci Sterling K. Brown in Waves who I was also similarly just like wowed by I don't know if the movie's

going to be big enough to get acknowledged in this category Timothee Chalamet for Little Women very good performance whether it's the stuff of Oscar we'll see

and Taika Waititi for Jojo Rabbit and some of that's going to be predicted by what kind of reception that movie continues to get as it makes its way Very good performance, whether it's the stuff of Oscar, we'll see. And Taika Waititi for Jojo Rabbit. And some of that's going to be predicted by what kind of reception that movie continues to get as it makes its way through America. But my prediction is Pacino. Okay. And I just made this prediction this morning. Okay. And I'm going to say right now I don't feel good about it at all.

Okay. Not at all. And part of the reason I made it is because he hasn't been this good in forever. Right. And because he's got a huge part in the Irishman. Mm-hmm. Pesci has a big part, but it's definitely the third biggest of the three. Right.

Pacino's is the second, and Pacino has a lot to do. Yes. He gets to vamp a lot. Who's your prediction? Oh, to win? Yes. I think that I'm going to go with Brad Pitt. I had a feeling you would.

Well, I mean, if I'm choosing, that's who I'm voting for. I'm not a member of the Academy, but I am certainly voting for Brad Pitt. I think that Pacino and Pesci cancel each other out. And there is like a real history in the supporting categories of the two supporting people both being nominated. I think it was Rachel Weisz and Emma Stone last year. And then I believe Sam Rockwell and Woody Harrelson were both nominated the year before that, before three billboards. This happens a lot. But Rockwell did win.

He did win. So they don't always cancel each other out. But in this particular case, there is a lot of movement behind Brad Pitt. It is like a big Brad Pitt year. He's never won. I think Tom Hanks is a real threat movement behind Brad Pitt. It is like a big Brad Pitt year. He's never won. I think Tom Hanks is a real threat in this category also. He's wonderful in this movie. You know, I think after we saw Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, I turned to you and I

was like, run Brad Pitt in Best Actor, which is not a good idea because that category is even more loaded. But I think ultimately people like to reward, you know, it's like spread the Oscars around and Brad Pitt is number one. What a couple of assholes we are just being like Brad Pitt and Al Pacino and Tom Hanks are good. This is one of the least interesting kind of conversations you can have. I mean, I think that if Pesci is in play, if he's in among the five, it becomes a lot harder for Pacino to win. But you could see a universe in which the five it becomes a lot harder for Pacino to win but yeah you could see a universe in which the Irishman energy gets way high and this thing that we thought we were

doing with The Departed where it was like Scorsese at the end he's in his 60s he made this movie this is actually like at the end he's in his late 70s now so I don't know we'll have to keep I was just gonna can I say one more thing about this category yeah I put Anthony Hopkins in this morning and I took out Timothee Chalamet. But I think Timothee Chalamet has like very powerful energy in this category. There's one scene that is. I'll talk more about like Timothee Chalamet's Laurie energy. But, you know, prepare yourselves if that sentence means anything to you. this history of, especially in such like an actor-heavy movie, that when people get really

excited about a movie, then just all the actors get populated in the categories. And you can see this being kind of like a Timothee Chalamet. This is a confirmation of a lot of things for me about Timothee Chalamet. I don't think it'll happen, but I could see it. It's very personal to you. Well, yeah, I know. Let's go to best supporting actress. Okay. Now, I'm going to it'll happen, but I could see it. It's very personal to you. Well, yeah, I know. Let's go to best supporting actress. Okay. Now, I'm going to say right here, I don't have any runners up to this category. I don't either.

It's not a super strong category this year. Now, it's often not a strong category, but there's weirdly nothing that I could see other than these five women. Okay. So, here are my predictions. Okay. Laura Dern, Marriage Story. She's been nominated twice before. Jennifer Lopez for Hustlers. Never been nominated.

Annette Bening for The Report. Four nominations, zero wins. Margot Robbie for Bombshell, who was nominated for Best Actress for I, Tonya in 2017. And Florence Pugh for Little Women. She's never been nominated. Okay. What are your nominations? So, again, we're four for five, which is really nice.

Okay. I have Jennifer Lopez for Hustlers. It's Laurence Pugh for Little Women. Laura Dern for Marriage Story. Margot Robbie, and I think you're right that it's going to be Bombshell, though I did write parentheses which one, though. But I think if I'm picking it, it's going to be Bombshell. We'll talk more about Bombshell later.

And I have Susan Dow from The Farewell in this category. It's possible. It's possible. It's possible. I just, there seems like a lot of goodwill around that movie. And I don't know how that's going to translate in best picture. But I think there might, I think people are going to remember it. Okay. My big question for you about that is, is that even the best supporting actress performance in the film? It was for me.

But more so than Diana Lynn as Billy's mother? It just, it's the one that stood out to me. I literally was in this movie watching it being like, I hope they run her in supporting. Okay. Because you can just see it. It is that candy and in supporting actor, they don't often go for subtle performances. It is for the person with something big to do or the person with a lot of heart. And she is the part of the film in a lot of ways. So is Annette Bening on the cutting room floor? Is that what you're saying?

Yeah. Interesting. Which I haven't seen the report. Okay. I will say it's not Annette Bening's best performance and it's not an imitation of Dianne Feinstein. It's somewhere in between those two things. And it's interesting Annette Bening's best performance and it's not an imitation of Dianne Feinstein it's somewhere in between those two things and

it's interesting I mean she's never bad she's been passed over a few times for work that is incredible she's the most nominated person who's likely running

in this category in the past sometimes that works sometimes it doesn't you know sometimes you're Glenn Close sometimes you're not my prediction here is Laura Dern okay having seen Marriage Story sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. You know, sometimes you're Glenn Close, sometimes you're not. Yeah.

My prediction here is Laura Dern. Okay. Having seen Marriage Story without saying anything about it. Yeah. No, there's, yeah. You can see it for sure. And... Some highlight reel moments. Some highlight reel moments.

It's a highlight reel year for her, both between Marriage Story and Little Women and also Big Little Lies Season 2 which whatever you think of it Renata Klein She was the best part. Important figure. I thought she was

completely the best part. She is Laura Dern is running. Truly. I saw her running at the Sunset Tower Hotel this weekend. Literally.

God bless. Dressed to the nines dancing into a bathroom chatting amiably. She seemed like a lovely person. Prediction? I think it's probably Laura Dern, but I'm going to make it interesting and go with J.Lo. Okay.

We'll just have to wait and see. I just want to see what happens with that. I dig that we're disagreeing. It's effective for this show. Okay. Best actor. Oh, this, I mean mean i have had a breakdown over this category just a fucking gauntlet yeah i don't know if i've ever seen a category like this

we're gonna run down some of the runners up for me okay the runners up are and it's shocking for me to say this out loud but leonardo dicaprio interesting i thought about doing this and i wasn't brave enough i was brave enough enough. Christian Bale. Okay. Matt Damon. And they announced last week that Bale and Damon are both running for best actor for Ford versus Ferrari. Adam Sandler for Uncut Gems. It breaks my heart to say that, but I just think that too many old people are going to

be strafed by Uncut Gems, which is a fucking masterpiece. Eddie Murphy for Dolomite Is My Name. Taron Egerton for Rocketman. Paul Walter Hauser. Now, we have not seen Clint Eastwood's film yet. We have not seen Richard Jewell yet. Oh, right. But there's a universe.

And Paul Walter Hauser is fucking hilarious in I, Tonya. And a very good actor. So it's plausible that something happens here where we get a new guy we haven't seen before in this race and they put him in. But we'll see. And Daniel Kaluuya for Queen vs. Slim. Those are just, that's the runners-up. Okay. Yeah.

Here's my lineup. Okay. Adam Driver, Marriage Story. One previous nomination last year for Black Klansman. Joaquin Phoenix, Joker. Three previous nominations. Never won. Bob De Niro, The Irishman.

Seven previous nominations. He won in 1975 for The Godfather Part II, and he won in 1981 for a little movie called Raging Bull. Antonio Banderas Pain and Glory. Zero nominations. He won Best Actor at the Cannes Film Festival. Jonathan Pryce, The Two Popes. Shocking to me to learn that

Jonathan Pryce has never been nominated for an Oscar. That's my top five. What do you got? We're three for five in this. But I had a last minute swish and now i don't know how i feel about it whatever we'll talk about it it's exciting uh adam driver marriage story joaquin phoenix joker robert de niro bobby as i call him for the irishman um leonardo dicaprio from once upon a time in hollywood eddie murphy don't mind his name. Here's why. He was at the Governor's Awards last

night. And I think it was honestly, Hollywood reporter Scott Feinberg did a write-up of the Governor's Awards. And there was a big picture of Eddie Murphy and Jamie Foxx leading it. And I was just like, oh, yeah, he's going to be hosting SNL. He's doing events. He's doing glad handing. He was in The Times already. He seems to want it. People seem to really like that movie. Netflix is already spending just so much money that I just, I kind of, my instinct is people are going to go to old favorites and like famous people, famous old people this season. That's kind of where I am with it. I mean, because they always do sort of, especially in this category, it's just always

really, really famous guys. But I switched out Antonio Banderas, Freddie Murphy at the last minute, and I could be wrong about that. It's very hard to say. Two guys who I think will be working very hard on the circuit. Two guys that are unafraid to throw themselves at this. I think because they're really proud of the movies that they were in because they know they've got a real chance this year because they're at a little bit of a later stage

in their careers and they feel that they need to be they should be recognized for that and they both should they're both wonderful in these movies

I don't know this is a tough category my prediction is Joaquin which for weeks it was Adam Driver and I'll just say based on what I've seen already and I haven't seen every single film like I mentioned I haven't seen Richard Jewell but Adam Driver. And I'll just say, based on what I've seen already, and I haven't seen every single film, like I mentioned, I haven't seen Richard Jewell,

but Adam Driver is giving the performance of the year, in my opinion. I do not think he's going to win. I think they're going to make him continue to go through the crucible of Academy Award nominations, and they're going to give it to Joaquin. What do you think? I mean, I do understand that for actors especially, Leo's a great example. They made him wait forever and ever to win an award.

I'm going with Adam Driver. There are little signs like he was already honored at Telluride. He got one of the special awards and he is also on the circuit and he'll be in Star Wars. So he'll be in everybody's mind. And I just think that performance

is extraordinary. I agree. I think the significant difference between Driver and Phoenix is that Driver, ultimately, I think people think is a normal guy. Now, he's a bit unusual, but he's very reserved in the way that he talks. He seems like a decent kind of a person. He's got that military background. He does a lot of charity work. He has a very

sincere and straightforward kind of relationship to the world. Joaquin Phoenix is considered like an alien. He's much closer to that Daniel Day-Lewis vision of the actor where other actors look at him and they say like, I don't know how he did that. And they feel more likely to

reward that. Now, I could be wrong. And I think there's a kind of quote-unquote problematic nature to Joker, which may hold Joaquin back. And Marriage Story is a big-time achievement. Yeah. But I don't know. I just—I'm feeling Joaquin. I just think also—I mean, Adam Driver's already had the New Yorker profile. I think he's—he is young.

He is only 35, but he's also been in the consciousness for so long. As we've said, he's worked with every great director at this point and was on Girls. And I don't know if he's as normal as you think he is. I'm not saying he is. I think he scans. Which is what's remarkable about it. No one's ever watched a Joaquin Phoenix movie and been like, that guy seems relatable. That's true.

I think Adam Driver has done it frequently. Okay. Okay. Well, we've disagreed on all three so far, which is fantastic. Well, we're just keeping it interesting. Best actress. Again, not a ton of additional runners up here. Anybody that I'm missing from my list?

I haven't looked at yours. You're going to read them out. Well, you'll tell me after I've read them. We have drama live on this podcast. Live drama. Let's go. You love to see it. Renee Zellweger Judy.

Nominated three times. She won in 2004 for Cold Mountain. Remember that movie? Barely. Okay. Is Jude Law in it? He is in it. Okay.

It was back when Harvey Weinstein ruled the Oscars. Scarlett Johansson, Marriage Story. Never nominated. Amazing in Marriage Story. Charlize Theron, Bombshell. Nominated twice before she won 2004 for Monster. Saoirse Ronan, Little Women. She's 25 years old. She's been

nominated three times already. Outrageous. Awkwafina, The Farewell. Okay. Zero. Yeah. Nominations previously for Awkwafina. Okay. Though I could see her having more in the future. Okay. What do you got? We're five for five on this one.

It's a slim category. I don't want to go into it too in-depth here, but not a great year for films about women. It's a really good year for 50-something guys looking back on their lives with pain and regret.

If you look at all these movies from Tarantino, James Mangold, Noah Baumbach, Bong Joon-ho, Pedro Almodovar, all these master filmmakers, all dudes reckoning with mortality and loss of innocence and nostalgia and frustration and class and all guys. And they got all great performances from all these guys. And there have been more movies made by women this year, think that in spy studios than any other year and some of them have been successful but for whatever reason there doesn't seem to be a lot of academy quote-unquote female performances that are going to get the big time attention which I find kind of fascinating

I don't really know what accounts for that. Well, I think when we talk about the Best Picture nominees, at some point, it's just the movies that we're taking seriously are mostly about great directors taking stock of their lives. And I don't mean to dismiss those at all. I've been moved by pretty much every single one of them. I said to you earlier, and we'll talk about it more, but it's much easier for me to relate to a story of like a an old guy being like shit did i waste my life than it is for me to relate to an old guy you know a middle-aged guy in his prime like dealing with his demons i can i also understand uh wasting my life um so i i think the movies are great but it's we there aren't that many os-baity, virtue-signaling movies about women this year.

And the ones that are, I have in Best Picture. I'm excited to talk to you about that one. But, I mean, it's just a numbers game. It's always a numbers game. There are always more movies about men and starring men and made by men than there are women. So, I chose my least favorite performance out of the three of the four that I've seen. I've still not yet seen Bombshell. But I think Renee renee zellweger is gonna win even though she's already won do you also think she's gonna win yeah so this has been one of those like lockety lock lock

lock awards for months yeah before when i got to tell you right people were like it's over it's zellweger and that's she's good's over. It's Zellweger. And she's good. She's Running came from Zellweger because they had a time to the New York Magazine profile to come with it. And she was also honored at Telluride, I believe. She was. And they just set it forward as like, this is what's happening. And that often works. Yeah, I guess so.

I just, without spoiling anything, what do you think of ScarJo? I thought she was very good. But not great. No, I thought she was good and she hung toe-to-toe. How that movie is constructed at the end of the day, it's not really about her. Which is okay. That doesn't diminish the movie in any way. But yeah, I think she's good. So we're going zellweger let's go to best director okay similarly this is a bit fraught here i need

to i need to see 1917 before i can answer this so i'll do i'll give you my runners up and with that in mind i have sam mendes on the outside looking in it's completely possible that that changes the minute they start showing this movie, which I think they're going to start showing it to us at the end of November. Okay. That's so late. It is late. It is late.

I think those first screenings are like November 23rd. Okay. So I've got Sam Mendes, Pedro Almodovar, Marielle Heller, Fernando Morelos, Lulu Wong, and James Mangold on the outside looking in. Okay. My five picks are Martin Scorsese. He's got eight noms. Yeah.

He won for The Departed. Noah Baumbach, zero nominations for Best Director. Bong Joon-ho, zero nominations for Best Director. Greta Gerwig, one previous nomination. And Quentin Tarantino, two previous nominations. We're five for five again. Okay, so I think that— I really—I put Baumbach in at the last moment,

and I had Sam Mendes in for a long time. And then. It's because you've seen one movie and haven't seen the other. I had some second thoughts about 1917. And again, I know I keep saying they're releasing it really late, but they're releasing it really late. There's so much recency bias that goes into this stuff. I just saw The Irishman.

So I'm like, Al Pacino is going to win. Right. Even though Brad Pitt is unbelievable in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Yeah. So I picked Quentin to win. Okay. I think I agree with that. Okay.

I don't, I have no feel. If you told me that like Mendes and El Motivar and Fernando Morelos are going in this category, I'd buy it. It's very possible. Now, I think it feels like the kind of thing that filmmakers are rewarded for what Quentin did with Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I think it is that sort of wistfulness that you were describing earlier is a feeling that I think people want to get across.

And that's the sort of thing that somebody like Guillermo del Toro won for with The Shape of Water. It had a kind of nostalgic summation of his project. Yeah. And I think that's what Once Upon a Time does for him as well. Yeah, I think even when Once Upon a Time came out, we were talking about how this is the type of movie that a director wins for, which is to say it's a comment on a career

rather than the pinnacle of the career. People rarely win for their actual masterpiece. Now, I kind of think Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is a masterpiece, but we don't need to get into Tarantino rankings right now because I don't need to be the person on the internet I was making fun of like 20 minutes ago. But wait, what Tarantino movie do you think he should have won for? Isn't it for Pulp Fiction? I don't know. I think there's a good case for Inglourious Bastards. I mean, Inglourious Bastards is my favorite. Yeah. But, you know, and again, what does this award mean? Is it like the best pure, is it for that like athletic Sam Endy style directing? Is it for like the breakthrough, the crystallization of this person has a vision and finally did it.

They made their great movie. Is it for a career? It's usually more of a Lifetime of Achievement Award than like the one great movie. Yes, I think that's right. And that's ultimately why I picked Quentin. You could tell me any of these people would win. I would buy a Scorsese win in a heartbeat. I think that's right. And that's ultimately why I picked Quentin. You could tell me any of these people would win. I would buy a Scorsese win in a heartbeat. I think it's completely possible.

Because it is a guy still working with power, with juice. So best picture. Yeah. So as I said, I have 10 nominees. You have nine. Yeah. I'll give you my runners up. Okay.

Bombshell. Okay. A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood. Uh-huh. Waves. Uh my runners up. Okay. Bombshell. Okay. A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood. Uh-huh. Waves. Uh-huh. And Joker. Those are the four that I think could compete but won't make the cut.

Okay. Now, I could be wrong, of course. Yeah. The caveat that I could be wrong is true for all of these categories. Here's my 10. Okay. The Two Popes. Okay.

The Farewell. Okay. 1917. Okay. Ford versus Ferrari. Okay. The Farewell. Okay. 1917. Okay. Ford versus Ferrari. Okay. Jojo Rabbit, which is a film we have not mentioned previously. Mm-hmm.

Little Women. Mm-hmm. Parasite. Mm-hmm. The Irishman. Mm-hmm. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Mm-hmm.

And Marriage Story. Okay. How many of those do we match on? Seven. Okay, interesting. Yeah. I think that there...'re so it was very interesting because i was making this list and i just guys i really don't like being this unprepared and not

knowing this much in front of people like i don't like doing it in front of sean i really don't like doing it in public you're just you're getting a real side of me right now this is vulnerability okay you need vulnerability i'm doing the best can, but I'm not happy about it, okay? Don't like to show up like this. Anyway, made my list. That applies to the whole everything I just said, by the way, the whole, all the predictions. When I was making this list, there were six that were a lock for me. Okay.

What are they? And they were Irishman, Once Upon a Time, Little Women, Jojo Rabbit, Parasite, and Marriage Story. Those stayed in place for me. Okay. Okay. So I agree with those as locks, and we'll. Those stayed in place for me. Okay. So I agree with those as locks and we'll put 1917 aside because we haven't seen it so we can't call it a lock. Right. So that leaves Ford versus Ferrari. Yes.

The Farewell. Yes. And the Two Popes from my list, right? Yes. I have Two Popes on there because like it's from Telluride, I think also I put Anthony Hopkins in supporting for the same reason, because it just seems like an actor driven movie and people are going to be charmed by it. And Jonathan Price being in the conversation suggests to me that people are really in that. And that usually buoys someone to a nomination. I put Bombshell on the list, the same reason for the last minute.

Okay. I cannot wait to talk to people about Bombshell. But ultimately, I thought that it was like a very enjoyable movie that is just driven by performances. And the acting branch is the largest branch. And Bombshell is this year's Vice, which was the post before that of kind of like the late breaking, political-ish, great performances from people you like. And you just kind of like go with it. I think that's very sound logic. And I have Joker on this list. Your favorite movie of the year? Well, I'm trying to be a realist. I'm trying to prepare and to face for inevitability.

I also, it has made a ton of money. And I did, I was swayed ultimately by a Scott Feinberg piece where he talked to like 45 Academy voters. And about half the people were like, huh, what a movie. Really moved by it. And the other people hadn't seen it, but were going to. And there were very few people, like there was a very small percentage of this anonymous sample of voters who were like, not for me. Yes. And I, you know, I stand by the positive

things I said about Joker. I think it actually is extremely well-made. And I think that there actually is a vision in place. I think there are borrowed elements, but I think he is getting amazing performances from people. I think it does have tone, which is not easy in place. I think there are borrowed elements, but I think he is getting amazing performances from people. I think it does have tone, which is not easy to capture. I think he did have a big idea that he wanted to put into the world

inside of that Trojan horse. And it's possible. And the other thing that happened too is those early conversations we had about the movie were all about what bad it was going to do

in the world and how it was going to lead to all of these terrible incidents. And those things didn't happen. I mean, it's been out for like a month and also...

Well, sure, but I think if there was an opening weekend tragedy and thank God there was not, it would have been different. This would have been a different conversation. For sure.

And so, we have what we have. The bombshell note is interesting. I also, for the same reason, I don't have Ford vs. Ferrari, which is a movie I've not seen,

which is definitely swaying my opinion, but also, if neither Damon nor Bale are getting nominated then I just think it's kind of forgotten yeah

that's an interesting test case so what you've got there is you've got a Fox movie picked up during the Disney merger you've got James Mangold a person very respected

in the Academy and who frankly was doing the Joker thing before Joker with Logan and you've got two big time performances from two big time performances

from two big time movie stars and a movie that I haven't seen it in a couple of months. And so maybe it's sliding away, but it's coming soon. It's coming in two weeks. And it is an attention getter. It is like a big, loud, fun movie about sports and about the cost of victory.

And that's like a thing that can work in this environment. Now, whether there's also a kind of fait accompli energy around the movie, like I think six months ago, people were like, this is a big time Oscar contender. And now maybe is it like running out of gas before it even gets to the starting line? I don't know. Great sports, I mean, car metaphor.

Thank you. Doing my best here. What'll be interesting to see? I'd love it if a movie like Waves could find its way in too. And like The Farewell is kind of holding that spot for me right now. Yeah, I wanted to talk about, so I don't have it

on Best Picture right now, which by my own logic doesn't seem to make sense because I have Awkwafina and also Susan Zhao and the Rizu on the list. But I think also that that will compete in screenplay

and probably, that just seems like the classic going to win the screenplay. It's very possible. We haven't done the screenplay categories here. Maybe we'll focus on them more in a future episode. One thing I noted is that it's not eligible for either Golden Globes category because it's. Do you remember that the Golden Globes, it has to be a English language film. And so Roma was not eligible in either drama or comedy last year.

And putting Roma in a comedy would never happen. But so I just kind of think that the farewell might, Golden Globes is a place where a farewell would actually thrive and get like a lot of attention and remind people, hey, you really liked this. And I think you could, could you put it in a comedy? Maybe. I'm not sure what it's been categorized as. It might be. Market it as a comedy. And it just kind of, I was like, huh, I don't know where this totally fits in. And I know where it fits in in the lower categories, but the best picture puzzle doesn't, it doesn't

totally add up for me. I'd be thrilled though. Let me give you two more thoughts. Yeah. One, I don't think Parasite is a lock. Okay. And I think even though our energy about it has been huge and it is doing awesome business for a foreign language film in this country, it is not a lock because it is a weird movie

from a director most people are not familiar with. Yeah. And it's not the same as Roma. We're desperate to make it sound like Roma, but it's not like Roma. Here's how I'm thinking about it. It's not Roma. I think this is this year's Phantom Thread, which is like our hipster movie. It's like, oh, hey, we did it. And every year there's one where it's like,

oh, wow, I don't actually have to yell at the Academy in public because they did one thing that I liked. Yeah, we probably can't have that and the farewell and to a lesser extent

Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and Marriage Story, which also both have the veneer of like film geekery you know sort of like Bound Back is like a guy who a lot of people

have liked for a really long time and has never really gotten to this place before yeah but like Marriage Story is also it is literally about it is about a marriage

it is about one of the most common experiences have you watched Green Book? I'm not so Jesus what a slip have you watched Green Book last night?

though the number of times that Green Book was served to me before I finally made it to Greenberg was like a personal trial. Anyway. Greenberg comes before Greenberg in the dictionary, thank God. Anyway, watch Greenberg.

Hadn't seen it since we moved to LA. Huh, that's a choice of a movie. And I had forgotten how awkward and closed off it is, which is clearly the point, but it is not. It's not a lot of it is like watchable. And Marriage Story is a classic, like watchable Oscar movie. Let me just position something. Yeah. Before Greta Gerwig, after Greta Gerwig. Oh, you're asking me to choose? No, I think that Greenberg is obviously she appears in the film, but this is before

that stage of his life personally, and then after. I think that, I mean, that's true. The weight of influence from our partners. We haven't done

our prediction. Okay. For what's going to win? Oh my God. I honestly didn't even think about this. Wow. This is real-time anxiety

on a podcast. I'll just say what I picked. Yeah, okay. I picked Marriage Story. Interesting. And I can't say I'm very confident about that. There's, I can see a world in which five of these films actually win. And I think Jojo Rabbit right now, we're kind of treating like a red herring, but I don't, I wouldn't be so confident that it's not going to come through and get nine nominations. I wouldn't be shocked. It is interesting that you and I only have it

in Best Picture and none of the other major categories. I mean, in theory, Taika for director and for screenplay is very possible. It's even possible

that he gets into Supporting Actor, though it's very competitive this year. But like, if you told me Jojo Rabbit or Little Women or The Irishman

or Once Upon a Time or Marriage Story won, I wouldn't be shocked by any of those. That's five different movies that I feel like i have a chance which means i think we're gonna get a cool race because i like a lot of these movies yeah i don't always like a lot of movies last year was kind of a tough road to hoe especially when we knew like stars born stuff like that had no chance yeah no i think that's true so what's your your pick? I sort of, I'm going to go with Once Upon a Time.

I think it's a good pick. And I'm going with that because we picked Tarantino for director and there's not always a correlation, but there often is. And I can, if you're going through preferential balloting, you can see a lot of scenarios and where it's like number two or number three. Right. And I don't. Is there any one film here that's going to get all of the number ones? This is the best case you've made yet. OK, that's a great case for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Thank you so much. Now, it's possible the marriage story cuts through to the heart of so many divorced people in Hollywood. And there are many divorced people in Hollywood. And there are a lot of men. This is ultimately about a man. I don't know if it is. We'll talk about it later.

Can't wait for our marriage story episode. Amanda, this has been fun. Do you feel the anxiety has lifted from you? No, of course not. I'm just going to live in it for the rest of the day. That's not how anxiety works. That just goes away. I'd like to encourage everyone to add Amanda with her picks frequently when she gets them wrong. Please don't. She'll really appreciate it. She loves to engage with the fans on that level. And maybe next week.

What are we going to talk about next week? The Irishman? That's exactly right. We have a big Irishman episode. My advice to people listening to the show that have made it this far is to go out to a movie theater and see The Irishman. Absolutely. And it's not just because it's good and it's not just because I want you to support theaters, y made it this far, is to go out to a movie theater and see The Irishman. Absolutely. And it's not just because it's good, and it's not just because I want you to support theaters, yada, yada, yada.

It's a movie that is epic in scale, and it deserves to be kind of sunken into. And I think a lot of people, and they're right, they'll watch the movie on Netflix on November 27th when it hits the service, and they'll watch it over two nights, or they'll break it up, and they're daunted by three and a half hours. It is long. We can't deny that it's long, but I loved seeing it in that way. And I'm glad I saw it in that way. I agree entirely. As everyone knows, I always recommend a theater experience. It really,

it did feel like, I will remember seeing The Irishman. I will remember it as an experience and especially the last hour and a half kind of washing over me. It is a transformative theater experience. I will also say, practically speaking, I always have to go to the bathroom during movies and I made it. Three and a half hours in my seat, didn't move. So you can too.

I believe in you. I also made it, but just barely. So brace yourself for that before you go see The Irishman. Amanda, thank you, and we'll see you next week. Thanks, Sean. Now let's go to my conversation with director Bong Joon-ho. And for this conversation, because Bong is from South Korea,

we're going to have him joined by a translator who will be translating all of my questions. I am absolutely elated to be joined by Bong Joon-ho and his translator Sharon Choi. Guys, thank you for being here. Hi, thank you. So, America is flipping out for Parasite. And I'm wondering if you guys knew, Director Bong, did you know that America was going to love this film.

So when I'm creating the film, I'm always anxious to know whether or not even the closest people around me would like my film, like my wife, you know, so let alone America. It's something that I'm always anxious about, but I'm so happy that the film is doing so well here. What is it that people have been responding to based on the feedback that you're getting the last couple of weeks? 일단 뭐 예측 못하겠다라는 스토리가 이렇게 막 흘러갈 줄은 정말 예측 못했다 놀랬다 이런 그런 반응 기쁘죠. 관객들을 어떤 롤러코스터에 태우는 그런 기분은 항상 즐거우니까. the story is and how they never know what's going to happen next. And, you know, that's a great feeling. It's always nice to make the audience feel like they're on a rollercoaster.

So for those of you who haven't seen it, you must protect yourself from all the information and spoilers out there. You have to go in with a pure mind. Yes, this is a spoiler-free zone. We will not be spoiling the movie, I promise. But, you know, I'm curious because so many of your films deal with genre. But your last couple of films have a lot of fantastical elements. And this movie is much more grounded.

And I'm wondering if that was a reaction to the previous experiences you had. Did you want to do something more on the ground? Yeah, it's quite true. My previous movie was about Super Peak. There was a huge, very lovely creatures in the movie. And the other one is the sci-fi train action movie. It's really sci-fi. But yeah.

But actually, I already set this up before Okja. With the production team. So it's not necessarily a semi-actual, but I did want to make something that was more Korean-grounded with Korean actors. 좀 더 한국 그라운드된 걸 만들고 싶은 생각이 있긴 있었죠. the reality of Korea. Yeah, maybe I'm hungry for some very Korean subtle nuances and something like a 짜파구리 in the movie. 이해 못했지. Did you understand what 짜파구리 is? I did, but maybe you can explain it here for us. 그게 이제 영어 서브 타이틀은

램돈이라고 라멘과 우동. 실제로 한국에선 그게 훨씬 되게 저렴한 대중들의 어떤 인스턴트 누들 두 개를 매운맛과 짠맛을 섞은 것인데 특히 젊은 분들 또는 초딩 분들이 좋아하시는 어린이 입맛의 음식인데 부잣집에도 초딩인 건 마찬가지니까 그렇지만 거기에 어떤 부자 가족의 리치 패밀리에 토핑이 들어가는 거죠. 썰로인이. 썰로인 넣는 거는 제가 창작한 거예요. 원래 실제 그렇게 해서 먹는 사람은 없었는데. The rich kid is still a kid nonetheless, so he wants this tapakuri dish, but the mom has to add on this topping fit for the rich. But the sirloin topping is something that I created.

People don't usually eat it that way. Ah, interesting. Okay, so that's a good segue to another question I had, which is that because you're back in your native country making a film, there's a lot of cultural references that American audiences and jerks like me will not understand. 미국의 관객들은 저처럼 저런 것들을 이해하지 않게 되는 것들에 대한 많은 문화적 발언이 있습니다. 이런 발언을 받는 사람들은 당신에게 중요하다고 생각하시나요? 아니면 우리의 머리로飛는 것에 대해서 괜찮을까요? 퀴즈인, 생활 스타일,테일이 있는 건 재밌는 요소인 것 같아요. 그렇지만 물론 그게 이렇게 리치앤푸어 양극화 얘기처럼

되게 유니버설한 스토리가 기본 바탕 깔려 있을 때 그게 오히려 더 돋보이는 것 같아요. 처음부터 끝까지 이해할 수 없는 것들 수성이면 영화를 왜 보겠어요 우리가? 아주 기본적인 유니버설한 스토리를 바닥에 깔고 그런 디테일들이 정말 썰로인 토핑처럼 얹어져 있으면 우리 모두가 공감하는 얘기인데 동시에 거기에 낯선 처음 보는 디테일도 있게 되니까 이래저래 다 좋은 거죠. that only a certain group of audiences can laugh at adds an interesting element to the film. Of course, it's all under the assumption that the basic story is universal. Like with Parasite, the story about rich and poor

and polarization, that's very universal and that's why the small details really stand out. So you have that story, universal story as a basis and if those minute details are added in as, you know, like the sirloin toppings, then I think it creates a great experience where everyone can sympathize with the story, but also access these very unfamiliar and new details. Yeah, it had me Googling a lot of things in the aftermath, having seen it a couple of times to understand it a little bit more clearly.

When you're working on a film with such visual intricacy, are you sketching as you're writing? Are you creating the images while writing? Writer-directors are all similar. Sound and image are already

in your head. Instead, we need to use Final Draft application in the format of scenario. I got Final Draft. 들 끓고 있으니까 대신 이제 우리는 시나리오라는 포맷에 이제 그 파이널 드래프트의 어플리케이션에 맞게 써야 되니까 I got final draft 그 문장으로 형식을 갖추는 거지 사실은 시작부터 이미 사운드랑

이미지가 엉켜있고 그중에 몇몇 또 것들은 직접 그리기도 하죠 이미 그러니까 스토리보딩이 시작되려면 아직 멀었지만 핵심 이미지들은 몇 개 그리기도 하죠. particular format of, you know, a script. So that's why we have to use, you know, applications like Final Draft. But it's really to relay my ideals, ideas in this, you know, prose format. But from the very beginning, my conception of the story is always very much intertwined with the image and sound that ultimately ends up in the film. You know, when I'm writing the script,

it's still quite a long time away from starting my storyboard process, but I do 영화에 끝이 납니다. 작품을 쓴 후에, 스토리 보딩을 시작하기까지 꽤 오래된 시기였지만 제가 이미지의 중심 장면들을 그려야 합니다. 이 영화의 스토리 보딩을 앞두기 전의 처음에 그린 이미지는 무엇이었습니까? 약간 스포일링 알러트를 해야 되긴 하지만 어쨌든 지하실 남자의 얼굴에 피가 이렇게 해서 피가 이렇게 삼각형으로 퍼져 있는 모습 그런 것도 그렸었고 그 다음에 그 오리지널 하우스키퍼가 이렇게 찬창 밀리고 있는 거 있죠. 우리가 공중부양씬이라 불렀는데 공중에 떠서 그때 기괴한 이미지인데 그거 그린 게 많이 있지. So there are two images, and I do have to issue a small spoiler alert.

So one image is of the basement man where the blood on his face sort of forms a triangle, and another image is the original housekeeper sort of hovering midair trying to push the shelf away. That is one of my favorite shots in the film. Do you find it easier based on your conversations with actors to work on films where everything is so meticulously

drawn out where you have these specific storyboards? For actors? Yes, to make it easier to work with actors with such a sophisticated storyboard. For actors, 배우들한테. 네. 그렇게 정교한 스토리보� 가는 거니까 배우들도 어떻게 보면 더 속 편할 수도 있을 것 같아요. 내 입장에서만 좋게만 생각하면 그런. 그리고 블록링이 너무 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매우 매 그렇지만 대사, 다이알로그에 있어서는 저는 되게 오픈돼 있어요. 그래서 뭐 임프로바이즈 하거나 뭔가 이렇게 바꿔서 표현하는 것도 되게 좋아하고 권장하고 저도 또 현장에서 이게 나을 것 같아 하고 대사를 현장에서 바로 즉석에서 고쳐서 던져주기도 하고

서로 핑퐁을, 그런 핑퐁을 많이 하거든요. 그런데 대사에 대해서는 제가 프로세스 동안 굉장히 오픈해요. 제가 행동을 바꿔서 임프로바이즈 하는 것을 좋아해요. 그리고 love when actors improvise and change things. And it's something that I encourage as well. On set, I also just spontaneously change lines and suggest it to them. So it's always a ping pong where we throw out ideas and throw out new lines at each other. Director Boggs just showed me a photo on his iPhone of the original sketch of that sequence where the original housekeeper is pushing open the shelving unit. And then what looks like a test in trying to figure out... The first one is my original drawing. The second one is a conceptual art of the production

design team. The third one is the test and the practice of the actress in the... So you mentioned that you want to have a kind of a looseness sometimes with the actors, 무술팀과 같이 미리 연습하는 거예요. 그런 순간들을 만들려고 오히려 노력하는 편이에요. realize when you're on set, oh, actually this thing I thought was going to work is not going to work? Well, I try to make those moments happen. I made a storyboard, but at the same time, I want to destroy it. I can't just do it like this. I'm going to be too careless. So I actually try hard to create those moments. 가는 거야 뭐 이런 예를 들면 부잣집에서 예를 들면

이제 캠핑을 가네 마네 하면서 딸내미랑 오리주댕이 입 대빨 나와있다 오바 하고 뒤에 조혜정씨가 이렇게 내려오는 장면이 있어요. 그거는 현장에서 다 바꾼 거야 이런 대사도 바꾸고 블록킹 라인도 바꿔서 새롭게 오케스트레이션 한 거야 원래 콘티와는 달라요 그 장면 예를 들면 그런 부분들 and you have the mom coming down and sort of screaming at her. That was something that we all changed on set. We changed the lines, we changed the blocking and the pace. That was something that we newly orchestrated on the spot.

So the construction of the sets is so remarkable. Was there ever a period where you were going to scout locations or was it always designed? Did you have to build what you wanted? 실제 로케이션은 영화 전체의 10%, 15%도 안 돼요. 비 올 때 주인공들 이동하는 거 있잖아요. 그게 계단도 많이 나오는데 그런 게 실제 서울의 뒷골목들에서 많이 찍은 거고 부잣집, 가난한 집 주변 동네까지 다 우리 디자인한 거죠. 아주 오래전 몇 달간 계획해서 다 만든 건데 이 동네를 워터탱크 안에 지은 거란 말이지 그 다음에 물을 넣고 찍은 거예요 for a couple months.

I'm seeing a shot of the flooded streets right now. And much shorter hair on you as well. Yeah, exactly. It looks worse. So that was the poor neighborhood that we built in a water tank. And we poured water in that tank after we finished shooting there. And that was something that we worked very hard to prepare. There's this recurring joke in the movie where the character of Kevin keeps saying it's so metaphorical about everything, which I loved.

And that was so funny. But also the movie is very metaphorical. And if you don't see that, then you're not watching the movie correctly, I would imagine. So, did you feel as if you were mocking your own intent with the movie? Or were you mocking a kind of teenager who is having that moment

where everything feels metaphorical? Thank you for that question. I wanted to hear it. So, thank you for that question. I really wanted someone to bring that up. Oh, good. So usually it's the film critics and, you know, YouTubers who say that, you know, this is really metaphorical. 보통은 영화 critic들과 유튜버들께서 말하는 게 정말 메타포리칼이거든요. 하지만 이 영화는 작가가 첫 번에 화면으로 발표하고 있어요.

그래서 그게 정말 재미있는 부분이에요. 나도 찍으면서 그 대사를 써놓고 나도 한번 생각을 해봤는데 쓸 때야 직관적으로 쓰니까. 오히려 상징적인 생각을 안 하기를 원하는 건가? 이런 생각도 해봤단 말이지. 그게 나중에 그렇게 말한 그 놈의 본인의 머리를 팍 박살내버리잖아. 상징에 의해서 우리가 두개골이 깨지진 않잖아요. 뇌수술까지 봤잖아 얘가. 약간 스포일링이지만 어쨌든 그래서 그 느낌이 중요한 것 같아요. 피지컬한 거지. 메타포리컬하기보다는. So I think, you know, it kind of, it can mean that, you know, this film shouldn't be seen as being so metaphorical. You know, when I wrote that line, I wrote it very intuitively. But this is something that I thought while shooting those scenes. And, you know, it's the scholar stone that he announces is very metaphorical. But in the end, that stone is the thing that crushes his skull.

And, you know, we never get our skulls crushed with metaphors. So I think it wanted, I think people want it. I think I want people to view this object as something very physical. I like that a lot. So when I saw the film with my wife, when it ended, she turned to me and she said, was masterful and I feel like that's a word that we are hearing a lot about you and this film right now I'm wondering though you make it look

effortless now but I know that some productions have been harder than others where does this production kind of rank

among the films you've worked on was it easier to pull off than other films was it more difficult in some ways you mean relatively

yeah you know movie making is always very tough and difficult but uh 서포티브 했으니까. 그리고 후반 작업을 되게 긴 시간 정교하게 했는데 또 한국에서 나를 갖고 그거 갖고 후반 작업 7편 영화를 찍을 동안 처음으로 아 뭐 했다다 후회 없다 이런 느낌을 받았던 첫 경험이었던 것 같아요. because the production company, financier, studio, everyone was very supportive, and I was working in a very supportive environment. And we spent quite a long time in post-production trying to be as meticulous as possible, and people just let me be, didn't interfere. I didn't feel exhausted during the process. So we finished editing the film in March just before submitting it to Cannes,

and I felt something that I had never felt before during the seven films that I had done. I felt like I have no regrets that I had done everything that I wanted to. And it was the first time I ever felt something like that after a film. Did you know that everyone was going to feel the same way? That this seems like the film, you've made great films and they're all well received. But this one, between the box office and the critical reception and winning the Palme d'Or, it's a moment. 그는 아까 말한 후회없다라고 한 거는 내 어떤 개인적인 영화를 만드는 사람으로서의 후회없음이고 사실 만족스럽게 찍었더라도 그게 관객들이 어떻게 반응할지 또는 영화제에서 심사위원들이 그걸 좋아할지 싫어할지 그런 건 모르는 거잖아요 그래서 나의 개인적인 후회 없다라고 마무리를 지은 것까지는 행복했지만 그게 세상 밖으로 나갈 때는 이미 완성한 다음 날부터 불안한 거죠 아까 처음에 얘기한 것처럼 그래서 제가 그리스도를 만들기 위해 자신의 기대를 가지고 있는 사람으로서는, 제가 자신을 위해 이루어진 프로세스에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신의 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신의 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 기대를 하는 것에 대해 자신이 very happy to finish this film without any regrets. But, you know, just thinking about how

it will be received from the outside world, I'm always anxious thinking about it. You called Snowpiercer your hallway movie, and you called this your staircase movie. Is that the sort of metaphor that hits you beforehand when you think of it as a sort of a structural or a physical device and a challenge to you or is that just something that you've

reflected upon after thinking about the design of your movies 챌린징이란 표현이 딱 맞는 것 같아요 저랑 그 DP가 스노우 피어서랑 패러사이트 같은

DP인데 우리끼리 그런 얘기 아 이거 복도 영화다 두 시간 내내 일직선 통로를 질주하는 그런 공간적인 특수한 상황이 되게 시네마틱하고 그런 곳에서도 영화를 두 시간 끌고 갈 수 있다는 어떤 물론 어려울 수도 있는 건데 그런 도전 그게 우리의 어떤 가슴에 또 불을 질렀죠. 2시간 동안 이 straightforward tunnel을 걸고 있는 영화였는데, 이 공간에 대한 특징은 그 특정한 restriction으로 나라를 이루는 것이었습니다. 설국열차는 대신 이제 일직선의 질주지만은 거기서 이제 계속해서 새로운 트레인 섹션이 나오고 또 새로운 캐릭터들이 계속 등장하게 되니까 거기에 이제 그런 어떤 변화의 의지에서 끌고 갈 수 있었던 것 같고 어떻게 보면 더 중첩된 레이어들의 문제인 것 같아요. 그 계단이라는 게. 계단이 영화에 진짜 많이 나오긴 하는데 프로덕션 디자이너하고도 각 계단마다 다 어떻게 다르게 각도와 폭과 사이즈와 각도와 모든 걸 조절할지

얘기도 많이 했었지만 훨씬 더 상징적이죠. 메타포리칼한데 또 동시에 물리적이기도 하고 계단에서 뭐 이렇게 사람이 어떻게 되고 막 그러잖아요. characters. So for that film, we really relied on these changes that will happen throughout the narrative. But for Parasite, you know, what's really important about the staircases is that, you know, it's overlapping layers and we have a lot of different staircases in the film. So we, you know, designed, you know, the angles and width differently for every staircases. And, you know, the staircases are much more metaphorical in Parasite, but at the same time, it's also very physical because a lot of things happen on those staircases. 모든 바닥에 있는 것에 대한 의견이 많습니다. 바닥은 파라사이드에서 더욱 정신적이고 또한 피지컬한 것입니다.

바닥에 있는 많은 일이 발생합니다. 많은 피지컬한 것. 선캥호와의 협력에 대해서 말해주세요. 본인의 역할을 프로그래머인으로 생각하는 것인가요? 아니면 작품에서 작가의 역할을 본인의 역할을 이끌어 보는 것인가요? 프로그래머는 뭐예요? 분신?

감독님의 분신 같은 걸로 보시는지 아니면 완전한 자체적인 캐릭터로 보시는지 그 이제 그 본인 송강호라는 배우 본인은 되게 독자적인 예술가라고 생각해요. 자기 관점이 있어요. 시나리오와 전체 작품을 이렇게 오버룩하는 이렇게 내려다보는 해석하는 자기만의 관점이 있고 그런데 다행히 그 관점이나 해석이 저랑 불일치된 적은 한 번도 없었어요. 그래서 아주 빠르게 본능적으로 그런 부분이 일치하기 때문에 일하기가 되게 편하고

저랑 네 편의 작품을 했는데 매번 되게 많이 다르거든요. 비슷하게 보일 수도 있지만 사실 많이 다른 건데 He has his own distinct perspectives and interpretations of my scripts and just overall works. And we never had differences in terms of our separate interpretations of the same story. So very intuitively, we sort of look at things similarly, and that's why it's always been a very comfortable partnership to have. 그래서 항상 편안한 협력이 되었습니다. 하지만 4개의 영화에 대해 제가 함께 작업했을 때 항상 다른 캐릭터들이 연주했죠. 하지만 첫눈에 보면 비슷할 수도 있습니다. 테이크 투 테이크 쓰리 반복하면 거기서 또 어떤 다른 부분들이 있어요. 동물적으로 다르게 하는

그러니까 매 순간에 어떤 연기가 짜여지고 계획된 예측 가능한 것이 아니라 길을 가다 어떤 날것의 다큐멘터리를 찍은 것처럼 매 순간을 생생하게

만들려는 또 어떤 그런 노력이 있어요. 그분이이 그런 게 저는 참 좋죠 very different. And he has that animalistic quality about him where his performances are never planned. They're never predictable. It's like shooting a documentary on something very raw that happens at the moment. And he's a performer who always tries to make sure each moment feels vital. And that's why I love him as an actor. Yeah. Your movies with him are my favorite of your films by far. I feel like what you guys have. The comparison is made frequently to Jimmy Stewart and Alfred Hitchcock and the relationship that they had together too. I was curious if you had screened any films either for your actors or your crew

before you started on Parasite. Have you ever screened? Have you ever screened a movie that you saw the actors or the staff watch before you film it? We usually gather and drink. We drink more than watch a movie. 기상한 적 있냐고? 찍기 전에 레퍼런스로 배우나 스태프들에게 보여준 영화가 있는지. 우리는 주로 모여서 술을 마셨죠. 영화를 보기보다는. 그래서 영화 보러 가기 보다는 술을 마셨죠. 그게 맞네요. 그는 꽤 무거운 술을 마셔요. 저는 아니지만 그는 술을 좋아해요.

술 자체보다는 사람들과 얘기하는 걸 좋아해요. 즐겁게 얘기하고. 또 후배 배우들을 동료 배우들과의 어떤 하모니 앙상블 이런 걸 또 중시하기 때문에 그분이 배우들과. 그래서 정말 되게 이미 킥오프 하기 전부터 촬영이 이미 약간 가족 같은 상태로 시작을 한 거예요. 서로 되게 친밀하게. So it's not that he likes alcohol, but he just loves spending time with people and talking to them. And especially with his colleagues and younger actors, he really spent a lot of time

with them because he really prioritizes harmony and being an ensemble. So even before we began shooting, they already had that family-like intimacy. And getting drunk could also be research with these people. You know, they're all getting drunk in the film together as well. So it makes sense.

If you could program a double feature with Parasite, any movie? Double feature? Yes. Joseph Rose, The Servant? Yes. Yes. Why? And also The Housemaid, the Kim Ki-young Korean classic.

The Martin Scorsese Foundation restored that movie. Those two movies. You've mentioned those two movies before. I feel like they were on your sight and sound, right? Your sight and sound list from many years ago? Sight and sound list. Kim Ki-young always had my top ten list. He was always on my top ten list. No matter what media it was. 김기영 감독께 항상 저의 탑10리스트는 언제 어디서건 항상 그 탑10리스트에 있었죠. 어떤 매체였던 간에.

그래서 김기영 감독의 영화는 항상 저의 탑10리스트에 있었죠. that beautiful there so many things happened there and it's also about the middle class crisis kind of concept has not it's aged very well

it's still relevant it's very fun everyone should watch it forgive this question but what is it like to be in the middle of the Oscar race is that strange for you it's my first time so 이 질문을 잊고 싶지만, 오스카 경기 중에서 어떤 모습이 있을까요?

그게 궁금하시죠? 좀 육체적으로 힘들 때도 있지만 그래도 즐거울까 그 과정에서 많은 아티스트들을 만날 수 있고 지금 하고 있는 것 같은 이런 또 우리 시네플들과의 즐거운 대화 같은 것도 좋고 어제는 또 우리 데이비드 린치님과 리나 베르티물러를 근거리에서 볼 수 있는 또 그런 즐거운 시간이었죠. artists, and I get to have a great conversation with cinephiles like we're doing now. And I was able to look at David Lynch and Lino Wertmuller very closely yesterday. So all those things have been very great. Maybe for Parasite, the Lost Highway and Blue Velvet was quite slightly maybe inspirational, I think. Those would be tremendous pairings for sure. Lost Highway in particular, I feel like is a good choice. Would an Oscar nomination be meaningful to South Korea, do you think? We've talked a lot about that and how it's not never received a foreign language film nomination before.

Is there a sense that it matters to the country or is this just, you've called this a local award show, 오스카만큼 또 전세계에 유명한 축제가 어디 있겠어요. 칸 베니스 베를린이랑 영화 시스템 방식의 차이를 설명하다 그런 것이긴 한데 한국에서 또 관심이 많은 건 사실이죠. 그런데 이제 뭐 특히 이제 한국 영화 팬들 입장에서는 이제

오스카에 처음 노미네이션이 될 수 있을까 뭐든 처음이 관심이 많잖아요 깐르 같은 경우는 깐르 컴피티션에 한국 영화가 처음 들어간 게 인권택 감독님? 춘향전이었나? 춘향전? 그게 2000년도였어요 그때는 컴피티션에 들어간 것 자체가 되게 큰 화제가 됐었는데 그 뒤로는 박찬욱, 이창동, 홍상수 감독님 등등 그게 되게 자연스러워져버리고 말았거든요. 그래서 컴피티션에 들어가도 그게 큰 핫한 뉴스가 되지는 않죠. 오스카도 그렇게 되는 날이 이제 오지 않을까요? 서서히? 물론, 아카데미는 세계에서 가장 유명한 축제입니다.

저는 그 축제가 지역으로서의 차이를 설명하고 싶었습니다. 시스템과는 다른 시스템과는 다릅니다. 물론, 한국에 많은 사람들이 이 영화가 수상자로서 어떤 점을 받을지에 대한 관심이 많습니다. 특히, 시네마 팬들에게도 관심이 많습니다. Of course, so many people in Korea are paying a lot of attention to whether or not this film will get nominated. Particularly for fans of cinema, everyone is wondering whether finally a Korean film will get nominated. Everyone is always interested in the first. For Cannes Festival as well, the first film to enter competition was Im Kwon Taek's Chunhyangjeon in 2000. And at the time, it was a huge piece of news. But after that, a lot of Korean directors have gone like Park Chan-wook, Lee Chang-dong,

and Hong Sang-soo. So now it's quite natural for people to expect a Korean film to be included in the lineup. And one day, I hope, with the Oscars as well, it won't really be a big deal whether or not a Korean film gets nominated. I'm pulling for you. And I'm pulling for you in Best Director as well. So thank you. There are so many great directors. I want to see Irishman soon, but there are so many great directors. Don't sell yourself short. Director Bong, I end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what is the last great thing they have seen?

What is the last great thing you have seen? What is the last great thing you have seen? I've seen a lot of Kelly Reichardt's works recently. I saw a new work called First Cow on Telluride. It's very quiet and slow. 텔루라이드에서 퍼스트 카오라는 작품을 봤는데 신작인데 되게 조용하고 차근차근 조용하게 시적으로 흘러가는 영화인데 묘한 흡입력이 있어가지고 자꾸 그 머릿속에서 지워지지 않더라고요.

퍼스트 카오 저는 최근에 켈리 라이크 하트의 많은 영화을 보고 있었어요. 그리고 가장 최근에 본 영화가 텔리어 라이드의 첫 번째 캐오였습니다. 그리고 아주 조용하고 포오틱한 영화였어요. 하지만 그냥 나라로 빠져나가고 있었어요. 그리고 그 영화에 대해서는 멈출 수 없었습니다. 전혀 다른 건데 극단적으로 다른 건데 하나만 더 얘기하자면 사프티브 브라더스 영화 좋아했었는데 언컷 잼이라고 그건 반대로 영화는 너무 시끄러워요. 막 그냥 처음부터 하이퍼 상태에서 시작해서 그게 끝까지 유지되는데

그 영화의 에너지에 되게 압도됐어요. 그것도 되게 잊혀지지 않는. 그리고 아담 샌들러가 진짜 멋진 연기를 되게 훌륭하죠. This is on the other extreme end of the spectrum, but I have to mention Uncut Gems by the Safdie brothers. You know, that movie, unlike First Cow, is so loud and it begins, you know, super hyper and, you know, just maintains that energy throughout. I was very overwhelmed by that incredible energy. And Adam Sandler's, you know, showed such a great performance in that film as well. Yeah, those two movies. Yeah, they've remained on my mind for a very long time.

I saw all three of them in a row. I saw first Cow, and then Uncut Gems, and then Parasite, a telly ride, all in one day. It was an amazing day. Director Bong, Sharon, thank you so much for doing this. Thank you. Thank you again to Bong Joon-ho, and thank you, of course, to Amanda Dobbins. Please stay tuned to The Big Picture later this week. I will be joined by Chris Ryan and Adam Naiman,

where we'll be breaking down our top five Martin Scorsese movies in honor of the Irishman. And I will also be joined by actor and now writer and director Edward Norton. See you then.