The Big Picture - Five Burning Questions About Awards Season, and Our Golden Globes Predictions. Plus: The Ingenious ‘No Other Choice,’ with Park Chan-wook!

Episode Date: January 8, 2026

In anticipation of the Golden Globes, Sean and Amanda start the show by answering five burning questions about this awards season (1:05) before sharing their personal predictions for the Golden Globes (26:56). Then, they discuss Park Chan-wook’s ‘No Other Choice’, a clever and class-conscious black comedy, which they both absolutely loved (1:11:07). Finally, Sean is joined by director Park to break down what attracted him to the source material and why there was an incredible amount of intentionality behind every decision (1:33:25). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Park Chan-wook and Jiwon Lee Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennacy. And this is the big picture of conversation show about no other choice and the Golden Globes. Today on the show, we'll dig into some Golden Globe predictions. We'll raise some serious questions about the award season as we are on the precipice of some dramatic news. or not. We'll also talk about no other choice, which is the new film from Park Chan-Wuk, the South Korean writer-director, who is a flat-out genius. This is one of my favorite movies of the year. He is a guest on this show, very excited to chat with him again. The film is getting a wide release finally in January, so more people will be able to see it. We talked a lot about

how he made this film and how he goes about making films. I mentioned on our year-end episode that he's extraordinarily detailed in how he explains the choices that he made. So if you like the movie you'll want to stick around for that conversation right after this okay Amanda yeah I was working on the Golden Globe predictions last night I was getting a little bored sure and it was a sign that maybe I'm getting a little bored of the award season that's not good Sean because the Oscars are on March 15th I something is happening right now that is interesting the the for the third year in a row, the best picture race, has been kind of done and dusted for like six months. Yeah. Oppenheimer in 2023, Anora last year.

Though we were never, we assumed, you know, I guess we were trying to make it interesting, but I think our attitude was, like, is it really going to be a Nora? Really? Really? That was our attitude. That would be cool. You're right. Are we, like, you know, are you guys sure? I would like it. But there was no other really legible potential winner. sure out of the bunch and so when it happened there was very little surprise and then of course this year one battle after another has been steamrolling the competition so as i mentioned earlier this week i was like maybe we don't know everything we think we do maybe maybe this is overconfidence peaking its head up and i want to hear some some thoughts from you about potential surprises how we could be off

Yeah. I do also think that this is you, Sean Fennessey, trying to wrestle with having the movie you love be the clear winner. And you don't know what to do with those emotions, right? And you don't know what to do with positivity and the right outcome at or like an outcome that you enjoy at the Oscars. And so you're looking for anxiety. You're looking for anxiety. You're looking for outlets to talk, to, to be in, you know, despair or uncertainty, which you're more comfortable in. Maybe so. Maybe so. I don't, it might also just be building a wall around that feeling. And also, I think there's just, there's clearly like an acknowledgement of age, of like you reach a certain point in your life and your taste.

Yeah. Which you once thought was interesting and transgressive is now middlebrow mainstream Academy Awards Fair. Right. That's fascinating that that's happening. to me, but it might be happening to me. I loved Oppenheimer. I love the Nora. All of a sudden, you know, I think this really started around Parasite where I was like, whoa, no, that's not true. It started at Moonlight. When Moonlight happened, I was like, what the hell? And then what that actually,

what actually happened is, is I was in my mid-30s. And when you started to get into this certain place in your life and your taste sort of aligns generationally with a lot of people that are in the same vein as you. So there may be something to that. There may be some protectionary instincts kicking in here. But I also think that there are some surprises. So we're recording this on the precipice of all of the Guild News, essentially. You and I are both headed to New York this week for a fun trip. And so we're not, we're recording early.

So we don't know the Screen Actors Guild nominations. We don't know the Directors Guild nominations. We don't know the Producers Guild nominations. Cinematography nominations. This weekend we'll see the BAFTA's long list. We'll talk about the results of all of these things with CR next week on the show. Which will be interesting, but we don't know how any of that stuff's going to shake out. So this is kind of the last moment where the only thing that we have to go on is critics' bodies, Golden Globe nominations.

No one who really makes movies has voted on anything yet. So let me start with this question. Yes. Last year, Fernando Torres came on fairly late to get a best actress nomination for I'm still here. We've talked a lot about the Brazilian voting block, the strength of that nation. But if you had checked in in, say, September of the awards race in 2024, you would have thought Angelina Jolie, Sir Sharonin. If you had checked in in December, you might have thought Pamela Anderson, maybe Marian Jean-Baptiste after the awards praise or the critics' praise that she got. None of those people were nominated for Best Actress.

Fernanda Torres was. So is there a sleeper acting nominee right now, someone who we don't really see coming? Well, we've tried to, you know, protect ourselves against that by identifying that Wagner Mora is, in fact, the Fernando Torres of this year to an extent that I, we see it coming. But he's in, though. We already think he's in. He's in. So there's nothing sleepy about Wagner.

He's in. Right. But, you know, I take issue with the premise of your question a little bit, which is that we, we pick our nominees in a way that, so we aren't surprised. Okay. So, you know, so I guess maybe Inga Ibsdada or Lilius, but like we see her coming to. I think she's in. This is what I'm saying. Like, who is a person that we don't really?

I'll give you an example of, I don't think that I think this. Yeah. But I want to talk it out. Okay. Emily Blunt. Right. In The Smashing Machine. Who was not well reviewed.

No. I did not like her performance. It's the one thing in the movie that I really did not care for. but she is very admired. She's an expert campaigner. She's one of the stars of the big movies of the summer Disclosure Day. She's nominated for a golden globe. And also the Devil Worse Prada, too.

Yes. Well, she's the third lead, I guess, in that movie. Memorable. Do you think they're going to pump up, if she had not gotten as famous, would they have made her as big a part? I guess it's an impossible question to answer because that's a movie that got her famous. Yeah, that's the breakout role. And I do think that my understanding of the plot is that she's, She plays a major.

I mean, she should, but, like, they've acknowledged that Emily has come up in the world. Okay. Um, I'm not saying Emily Blunt's going to be nominated for Best Supporting Actress, but it's the kind of thing where a couple of names fall away. She's been on the maybe since the very beginning. Yeah, but we've written her off. You know, we're like, oh, it's Amy Madigan's time now, Tiana Taylor. There's some frontrunners in that category.

So, you know, L fanning has kind of fallen away a little bit. Let's name it. it's Amy Madigan, I think yes. Tiana Taylor, yes. Inga Ipstater-Lilius, yes. We've got two spots. I think Emily Blunt is like very possible. It's interesting. Obviously, part of the Fernando Torres fascination was just very few people were familiar with her work. And so she came on quickly. I don't know if there's another international performer who we don't know as well. You know, someone from no other choice that I was thinking about when I was going through that movie, that I was like that would have been a really cool campaign

to have had Sonny Jin who plays Libyan Hung's wife in the movie that would have been like a great campaign to see happen and we've seen it happen a couple times in the past we saw the grandmother from Minari for example come through with like a kind of a surprise campaign in a year where there was an opening but I don't know if I see one

in either of the supporting categories from either Tony Maria I know you're pitching that you're pitching that from the secret agent yeah that would be fun yeah that would be interesting I think that's probably a little too niche. You never know. So nothing else.

Nothing else jumps out of you. Everything's, I think Ethan Hawk is someone that we thought like this could break, you know, this could break either way. But the critics have really boosted him and a press tour for the ages. So now it seems like that is definitely going to happen. And that's one where George Clooney, we would have said in, I think we probably did say in August and September was a lot. lock. I think that's out. Ethan Hawks in. That's one, though, where if he got left out, I wouldn't be shocked. You're right.

Because those movies are smaller. There's some, like, which link later movie am I supposed to watch for the kind of casual Academy voter? And which link later movie am I responding to? It's very interesting how many people are like, oh, but did you see all the black and white and Nouvelle Vogue? Which is, it's true. It feels like a very 50-50, like, which is my favorite divide between the two of them. Yeah. Yeah, that's an interesting one where, like, if you told me today that he won, I wouldn't be shocked if he just, like, charmed the pants off people for two months and worked so hard and Shalamee alienated people and Leo, you know, was kind of a little bit more in the background. Yeah, that wouldn't shock me, but it also wouldn't shock me of a smaller dromedy about, you know, an old gay man in a bar in 1940s America. Like, that wouldn't, that wouldn't shock me either.

Yeah, we'll come back to that. Yeah. A best actor race is really fascinating because, like, six months ago, it was Jeremy Allen White and The Rock and George Clooney, as you said, and all these people have all fallen away. What about Felicity Jones and Train Dreams? Could you see that possibly? Yeah. Interesting. She's Academy loved. Very good in that film. So Train Dreams, Best Picture, yes.

I think so. Adapted Screenplay nominee. It's not going to win, but that's okay. What else is for sure? Cinematography, of course. So that's not like a ton. Score, maybe. Okay. So that's awareness across like above and below.

But it doesn't seem like, I think that Joel Edgerton would also need a nomination to carry like her through as the supporting. I don't really think that that's happening. I don't think it is either, although we saw he was nominated the Critics Choice Awards earlier this week. He was cited several times by Timothy Chalame. Yeah. And an interesting reaction shot face. You know, listen, it seemed like they were just in an airplane hangar with, like, cheese and crackers. So, like, who can say what's going on?

I'm not one to judge. I couldn't be happy either. It's a really interesting thing, though, which films get acting nominations and which don't. You know, which best picture contenders are like, well, this is clearly an acting film. So we're going to, you know, shower it with praise. Frankenstein's an interesting version of that, where we talked after the Critics' Choice Awards about whether Jacob Allorty has a real chance to win there. but then there's really no discussion of Oscar Isaac or Christoph Waltz or Mia Gough or any of the other performers in the movie beyond him.

So I don't know. I feel like there's one, there's always one surprise, one thing. Sometimes it's a more lower level thing. Sometimes it's an editing category surprise or a best original song surprise. It's been an acting one a lot in the past. And so I'm trying to put my finger on it and I haven't quite landed on it. Okay. So I mentioned for the third straight year it feels like best picture is.

kind of sort of settled. You could say the everything all at once year was kind of sort of settled. You know, this has been happening. Cota was the last real surprise. And everything everywhere all at once was just how many awards

like other Oscars can it pick up along the way. Correct. And it became ultimately a very big juggernaut and won several acting awards which is in retrospect. It's so strange.

I like that movie, but it's so strange. Is this a bad thing? Well, I think Oscar season is, too long. I think that we should not be having to stretch this out until March 15th. I don't think it's good for the award season and I don't think it's good for the rest of the movies. I think we're now experiencing the two-month hole in January and February of anything like serious. And that's

not totally fair because like a lot of the international films and smaller films will be rolled out, which is I guess, is like a proven release plan. It's, like, a proven release plan. I think it's good for no other choice, which is kind of on the fringes of the Oscar race. But, you know, it's not like Sarada's going to make $25 million at the box office. So you're right that it gives a window to start releasing some of these movies, but none of these movies are going to play on 3,000 screens. Right. I find this year to be particularly strange.

Last year it started, the Oscars were the first week of March. And that was great. And they had been moving them back a bit. Yes. And so now we're back to March 15th. If the show happened on February 15th, what is lost? I'm not sure I understand I know that there's maybe more money in the gears

for FYC to kind of keep building and building anticipation but I don't know it's feeling like we're going to get too far away from the year in some ways and we're going to be six full months out from the one battle release and it's like what will the celebration of that movie even look like in the same way you know this is kind of

mild nitpicking about the process but I think when you when you sense that these movies get this level of momentum where they can't be stopped And in the case of everything or ever well, once it came out the previous March, so you had one year of ceaseless domination, it's just boring. It's even boring for the awards watchers. And so if this were sports, the competition committees would come along and they would say,

like, what rules do we need to change? How do we mix this up to make this more interesting? You know, the NFL does this. The NBA does this. All of the NFL's rules are absolutely maddening. And sometimes they get it wrong. Like the NBA's end-of-game review process right now is a fiasco. It's a nightmare.

It ruins the experience of watching games, watching fourth quarters of basketball games. But they will at least consider it. The Academy is obviously considering a lot of changes. They're going to YouTube. They're adding a category this year. They're adding another category two years from now. Some things are underway. I don't know if this is a solvable issue, but it's something that I have been thinking about as someone who spends a lot of time thinking about this stuff.

I think that, I mean, I just think they should move it up. I also think the Emmys should move to late January, and we, like, we just have awards season. We, like, bracket it all, awards show season. We bracket it all together. We schedule around the Super Bowl. Country music awards as well. Yeah. When are those? I don't know. Every once in a while, there's like a, you know, it's like the Billboard Awards.

And you're just like, oh, okay. Like, who showed up to the airplane hangar tonight? Should the ringer do an award show? I'm serious. We do, you and I do an award show alternative. Sort of, you know. I'll be wearing like a black sweater and, you know, barely brushed my hair. Would it be sports and pop culture?

I think so, yeah. Would you be the host? Well, I didn't say that. Hopefully we would hire a professional to do that. I don't know. You've always wanted to be a game show host. It's close enough. Not quite the same.

Would we reveal the vote tallies? Oh, 100%. Yeah, a thousand percent. But who is the voting body? Right, and then no one shows up. Me. Then no one will show up. Yeah, we should do that.

I'm sure people would, there would be no controversy around that. They need to move it up. And you know the reason I do, I feel that the late... March, like, February, March is old and is predicated on, like, the December 31st Elibilogy, whatever, you can say it, window. And the fact that for a long time, and still the smaller films all rush in in the last two weeks before December. And so you needed to give air for all of the films to be released. But as you identified, you know, one battle was September, everything everywhere was March.

Oppenheimer was July. So now that the release schedule has changed and we're living with a lot of these movies for a lot longer, you don't have to give the room on the other side. Yeah. I think this isn't something that's going to solve whatever the issue is with award shows in particular, but it is an interesting thing where the elongation, I think,

has diminished some interest. Do you think there's a fake out happening at the precursors right now? someone who's been winning awards or who's been showing up. You know, you mentioned that the Kathleen Chalfant win for National Society Film Critics was a very critic's style pick, shining a light on an underseen film, a film that even a lot of pundits really haven't spent any time with.

And so that's what the critical bodies can do. That's not really a fake out. A fake out is like Rose Byrne wins nine critical awards and then is in fifth place in the best actress race because people have a hard time finishing that movie. You know what I mean? Extremely rude. And also please finish that film.

The ending is wonderful. It's an imaginary example of something that can happen. I don't think that that's a fake out, though that is, I think, some not even false confidence. I don't think that she's going to win. You know, I think you're probably right that it will be Jesse Buckley. But I do think she'll be nominated. And we're going to do Golden Glove's predictions later on. I think we may see her on Sunday night.

Well, that'll be interesting. Because of the category split. And so then maybe that's like a different fake out. You know, maybe that's a, do me more, oh, look, maybe it actually can happen. after the Golden Globe speech. True fakeouts. I mean, I do think Jacob Allorty will be nominated. I don't think that he's going to win with respect to the Critics' Choice Awards.

I think it's always a good idea to have Jacob Allerty at your awards show. Allorty being the first euphoria cast member to win an Academy Award would be interesting. It would be interesting. How many Euphoria cast members will win Academy Awards in their careers? Zendaya, Allerty, Hunter Schaefer. I do you think it's going to happen for Sydney you think that that's her trajectory I don't but the housemaid sequel was just greenlit so you never know could be 2027 no I mean you've got Maude Apatow who's going to be in the sequel uh that's a really

good question like the avenging housemaids you know it's going to be like an avenger style thing where they all team up no she goes to a new house but so like who's the new house Good question Catherine Hahn That would be great That would be really good Yeah You know

Catherine Han I don't know whether She needs help You know But I guess she could Oh like she could do it herself Yeah yeah yeah Yeah but I guess

I guess the setup is that She is Yeah it's Catherine Hahn And David Harbor Do you watch Stranger Things No Me I mean I just

I did watch the first two seasons Yeah And I began the third season And I said no thanks I've watched a few episodes. I've just been checking in with people just like a thumbs up, thumbs down. It's actually quite nice

for there to be a big cultural event happening that I have no part of. I feel kind of a sense of relief. And I've never once heard someone discussing the show and thought, I really should catch up with that. No shots. Anybody who made it just doesn't interest me at all.

Okay. I'm trying to think of who... I mean, Maude Apatatow has a movie that she directed coming out in May, poetic license, which played a TIF, which people seem to really like. I haven't seen that yet. So she strikes me as someone

who could legitimately win an Academy Award because she's an actor. She's going to be a writer-director. Who else is in that cast? Who are the other cast members? We've gone past my knowledge of Euphoria. Okay. Euphoria, great show.

Honestly, I love it. It's insane. It doesn't seem like it's made under the safest circumstances. I quite enjoy it. I don't know if there's another big fake out. Is Timmy a fake out? Has this been Leo's Oscar all along?

No, no. I mean, right now what I'm operating under is Timmy and Leo cancel each other out and it's Wagner Mora. You genuinely think that's going to happen? Right now, that's what I'm thinking about. You got to think about the international voter base and you got to think about where the votes are going. And Timmy's trying to dial it down now and be a sweet guy and, you know, thank his foundation, which is a person and not an actual foundation as Amanda Seiford commented on Instagram, which is why she is number one forever.

She was like, oh, she means, he means like her person. I was confused. Who's his foundation? Kylie Jenner Oh Oh like the foundation She's my foundation as a human being Right

Right that's what he said Right not his charity Right Anyway so Timmy's styling Amanda Sefer said this on Instagram She just went live on Instagram No no she just commented She's just like she just commented

Oh he means like a person I was confused commented where Like in the Instagram comments I think on someone aggregating it What? Why is she doing that? Get online I don't know

Because people have fun Women in their 40s, that's what we do. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. Women in our 40s, we have fun. That's what we do. She gets in fights on TikTok. Jennifer wants us was like 32. Well, I know.

That's why I said Instagram was for women in their 40s. Named Amanda. Ciphering right now. Amazing stuff. Testament of Anne Lee. I talked to Mona Fassfold on the show yesterday. Genius. Awesome, awesome conversation.

And yeah, she talked about what Amanda Seifred did for like 14 months making that movie is astonishing. Well, also, I guess, checking Instagram and comments. on Timothy Shalmay's speeches lover. That was on Sunday. Okay. Anyway, Timmy's dialing it down. Okay. Leo is literally like vlogging from Jeff Bezos's yacht, you know?

Stop literally vlogging. What do you, this is being recorded. You can't just say shit like that. He's not vlogging. He said a video acceptance speech. Well, okay. All right. There's an H.G. Wells book in the background of that.

Is that true? I'm pretty sure. Which book? I, no, I think it just said HG. Wells. I like zoomed in. Like a biography of H.G. Wells. That's truly dystopian to be on that yacht and reading H.G. Wells. I mean, listen, it hasn't been confirmed to me that that was the yachts library, but it sure looked like the yacht of a library, you know, the library of a yacht owned by a man who ruined the book industry. So. H.G. Wells Power rankings. Go. Top 10 novels.

I have not read any H.G. Wells novels. Okay. Yeah, that's a good one. So. Time machine. Dr. Moreau? Listen. That's three. Okay. I can think of some more. That's good. Can't name 16 awesome novels, but can't name Pride and Prejudice, but that's okay.

H.G. Wells is a man. And they're, you know, they're both working with it. But I do think that they attract a similar kind of voter, but are you a Leo or are you a... Women in their 40s? To tell. And then, anyway, I, Right now, I'm not picking Timmy to win. So if you consider that a fake out, then yes.

It's a really, it is the coolest race to me because you've got a ton of really worthy contenders. We haven't even talked about MBJ. You've got MBJ, Wagner, Mora, Timothy Shalame, Ethan Hawke, and Leo is a sick category. That's an awesome and incredibly deserving group. It's possible other people get in that we're not thinking of, but that feels like the five to me. And if that's the case, it'll be a fun one to talk about. Okay, number two, what movie will you be sick of discussing by? March 15th, because we do have two more months

of this. I mean, Frankenstein? Yeah, well, we even discuss it that much, I guess. Yeah, well, I mean, I do think that it's going to get a raft of nominations, right? Like, I don't think Jacob Lordy is going to win, but the, you know, the support for Frankenstein is not fake. It's real. Probably going to be around

eight, I would guess, yeah. And I did, you know, I thought all of the productions design and the creature design was, like, spectacular. It is good. So, but I mean, like, how many times you can say, like, what they, you know, he really, he looked like a tall monster you know he looks like he belongs actually in a spider-man movie but i thought that was kind of ingenious that they just kind of dispensed with our expectations of what that

monster was going to look like entirely no i i thought it was very cool i like all of it but like i don't know if i have two and a half months of okay they they really did that yeah i mean that's obviously the movie that i like the least that is competing heavily although i don't really know what the academy thinks of wicked for good i don't know what i don't know what i don't know what of these bodies think. That's something that I think will be revealed to us over the next four or five days is, is that movie more in? Because it's so Hollywood, because it's the conclusion of a big stage show. Because John M. Chu is a real ambassador for Hollywood, and he's got a lot of supporters. I don't know. I could see a world where, like, the worm turns on that

and everybody like us who thought they were so smart because they realized that this movie stinks. Like, sometimes it doesn't matter. Sometimes a lot of movies that we think are legitimately bad movies get nominated for Best Picture, you know, extremely loud and incredibly close or incredibly close and whatever than extremely close and incredibly loud. What's the name of that movie? Well, I was about to say up close and personal. The magician's nephew? Yeah.

I mean, those movies, movies like that get through all the time. Yeah. The artist won like five Oscars. That's true. You think Neville Bogg is going to get in? Well, that would be a cool surprise. Yeah. That would be a cool.

It was, did it make the international shortlist? It didn't, right? For France, wasn't submitted as the French? I don't for the international short list I don't remember how that shook out Am I losing my mind? No, but it was just an accident It's the French pick

So. Yes, they tried to submit New Velvog But France chose it was just an accident Thank you Okay, so here's the last one Yeah What movie should we do Another episode about

Okay To celebrate ahead of the ceremony Or to dig deeper ahead of the ceremony Sinners? Just because it's been a while? Yeah Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. It's a good idea.

And, you know, I can finally see the end credits. But I think there's just, like, been a lot more. I think we could talk about, like, the history and all the references. And we know a lot more about, like, production choices, the score, all of that stuff. That seems, that's, it's, that was April. It was April. It was a long time ago. Yeah, actually, even just hanging out with, um, Jack and Van yesterday after we were recording,

like, we were just talking about all the movies this past 12 months. And, you know, some of his feelings about. sinners. And it was like a long time ago when we had a conversation with him on the show. We talked with Chris on the show about it. But it was a lot of like the excitement. Yeah. When we first saw it. And then the weird, why is everyone pocket watching this movie? And then it kind of faded away. And the movie has a lot of detractors, too. You know, that's the thing is it's critically acclaimed. There's obviously like a racist level of detractors. But even if you remove that, I think there are a lot of people who are like, this is kind of a mishmash of like three or four other movies. And they don't

like it as much for those reasons. I obviously, I love movies like that. That's a Pulpiction kid. Yeah. That's an amazing synthesis of styles. But I think kind of, you're right, digging through some of those details would be a lot of fun on an episode. Okay. You want to predict some Golden Globes? Yeah.

I told you before we started recording that I did my homework, but I haven't made any decision. There are a few categories where I haven't made the decisions. Okay. And so I'm going to do it live, which you didn't flare an nostrils when I told you. So. No, I think that's fine. We can talk it out. Yeah.

Was one of them the cinematic and box office achievement award? It was. Okay. I have a pretty clean answer for this one. Okay. Which is I believe it will be Avatar Fire and Ash. You do? Yes.

Because I think that this movie is once again extremely powerful and more powerful in both arenas than people expected. That it is still great filmmaking spectacle and also is, you know, pushing towards $1.5 billion. So I could be wrong. But it now appears to be on the outside of the Oscar race And because of that, this is a way to honor What is a movie that is like killing in theaters right now? It's a good argument. I wouldn't be surprised.

I believe that the Barbie Oppenheimer year, This is the award that went to Barbie. So my instinct has thus been is this. Sinners. This goes to sinners. Yeah, that's a good sound case. Listen, and I want to be clear, I'm not advocating for,

what I'm about to say. But if they give sinners box office and cinematic achievement, then it opens up drama to do one of the international features. And there are so many. Wow. You know, the discourse will be super obnoxious if that happens. Of course it will. Don't forget.

They, like, quote unquote, redid things, but it's the golden glows. And I think you just, you got to look, we were both very surprised by the number of international features that made both categories, that made screenplay. that made, you know, a lot of, a lot of categories. So I am curious whether they do sinners here and then do something else. So I'm just going to say sinners here and then I'll make my best drama decision later. It's great that we're different on that. And I think that's insightful would be an interesting outcome.

It could also win both. Let's be very clear that I think this is an insulting category. And sorry your movie wasn't good enough for us to nominate. you in a best drama category. And that sinners deserves best drama. It's also, it's ironic that

like Frankenstein because it was a Netflix film is not eligible for this because this is the most Frankenstein shit of all time. It's a great point. There's this whole raft of a certain kind of movie

that should be eligible here. And wasn't Taylor Swift the Ares Tour nominated last year in this category? Like there's a, you know, is that a movie even? You know,

it's a concert film, I suppose. But this is all, you know, I think there's a strong case in this category for F1. F1. I thought you might go there.

F1 is definitely, and F1, to me, feels like a more fitting Victor, you know, because it's an original film. It played huge internationally. It's Apple's first really big win. And it's a way to kind of keep them involved in the Golden Globes game in a way too because they're not going to really have any other wins

going down the line here. Are we going to do like some infographic of this where I pick sinners and then and whatever and people yell at me and call me racist? Because I really, I don't want to do that. It's all up to you. Okay. Great.

Because I don't believe if that's what should happen. I will personally draw the infographic. I will draw your portrait. I will write all the correct answers that are the most racist seeming for you. I do not agree with what I am predicting. Yeah, yeah. I know. This is the problem with this.

So, I mean, the other thing is K-pop Demon Hunters. Sure. It was a Netflix movie is clearly a huge achievement. It's one of the most streamed movies of the year. When they deigned to put it in theaters, it made a shitload of money. but it's not really a wide release movie so it's a really interesting category and then we're not even talking about Zootopia too

which is going to make $2 billion Yeah That's fucking crazy Movies are back Have you heard about this? Yeah They're fucking back I know it's very exciting

It's so good You know what else was a big hit Actually in the same vein as sinners And if sinners was not here Weapons would be a good case for this too This is a dumb category That does create some interesting discussion How about that?

I think this category is stupidly responding to a wish and a desire that we and many other people have, which is to see, like, good, big budget entertainment represented at awards shows. That's right. And if you, like, it can be done very poorly. It can be done very well. But when you do it very well and you pull it off, it is like an art of a kind. And it's a different type of art than one battle after another or sinners.

But, and, you know, sinners is, like, does it all. And that is, like, a very special achievement. but I think we think that achievement is just like the best of achievement rather than some Astorx squad category. Where is a Minecraft movie in this category? Where is it? Yeah.

Why is it not here? Is Wicked for Good so dramatically better than a Minecraft movie? I'm not so sure. I'm not sure you could convince me of that. And did it inspire the same fervor? I don't know. You live in a Wicked for Goodhouse.

Sure do. Do you listen to the Wicked songs or Wicked for Good songs more right now? You know what we're really enjoying? And honestly, I'm enjoying this as well, is the one-night-only performance of Wicked. Oh, sure. Recorded at the Dolby Theater. And then I think they perform one song from Wicked for Good. And that's some bangers on that.

Have you ever been to the Dolby Theater? Certainly. You have. Yeah. I went for the first time this year because the Los Angeles Ballet performs the Nutcracker at the Dolby Theater. theater took my son I just we could use a spruce up do you know what I'm saying wow I was well they have well I just they have the Oscars there and I was like I you know I can I we could use some upgraded chairs I feel for these people a little the Dorothy Chandler pavilion was no great

shakes either you know it's it's an award show it's not a it's not a luxury home I was just kind of like everyone must be pretty uncomfortable that's actually one of the things that we didn't talk about with YouTube getting the Academy Awards is that the possibility of the show being even longer, but I think many pundits out there, I heard Katie Rich say this on prestige junkie that she was like, you know, it is actually like an award show where you have to be seated. So like, they're not going to make the show seven hours. Like they're not going to make, you know, incredibly famous people sit for that long, which was a really smart observation. That being said, make it seven hours. Just do it. I'd like to watch it. Best original song from

a motion picture. The nominees in this category are Dream is one from Avatar Firenash, sung by your girl, Miley Cyrus. Golden from K-pop Demon Hunters. I lied to you from sinners. No Place Like Home from Wicked for Good. The Girl in the Bubble from Wicked for Good. And Train Dreams. Yes.

Which you performed on this subject. Yeah. Performed by Nick Cave. Yeah, Golden. Which is great. Deserving. I'm still outraged that K-pop Demon Hunters will not get multiple nominations in this category because Golden was the only song shortlisted.

That's right. And generally, I think that this category is an abomination of songs played over credits by pop stars who need a check. And all the K-pop Demon Hunter songs are A, Cashi and B, woven into the film itself. Yes, I agree. That is the strongest case for it is that they are essential to the telling of the story. Yeah, but no one consulted me. Best motion picture animated. Now, historically, you tend to rely on some friends of the show.

Right. I didn't text Griffin and David on this one. Though, hi, Griffin and David. I love you. David was amused by your concern over Narnia. He let me know, just so you know. David, you have my phone number. I have seen three of the six films on this list already. Look at me. Wow.

So you've seen Demon Slayer, Kimetsu, No Yaiba, Infinity Castle. impressive The nominees here Arco Demon Slayer Elio K-pop demon hunters Little Amali or the character

of rain and Zootopia 2 I'd like to take a moment to speak to you about Little Amelie or the character of rain Yeah I watched this film

I watched it with my daughter The film is in French Great She watched the whole movie That's adorable Doesn't read Doesn't read Does it doesn't read subtitles

She's getting there Is it French or Belgian I can't remember I think it's about a Belgian family That moves to Japan and this two-year-old girl, like two-and-a-half-year-old girl, a young toddler, kind of experiencing the world,

making this connection with her nanny in Japan. And it is beautiful. I thought it was a beautiful movie. That's wonderful. And I hope more people get a chance to see it. It was actually quite fascinating to sit with Alice and watch something and not talk and not be in English and her to be completely mesmerized by it.

What did she ask you afterwards or like what? Nothing. Nothing. Okay. She didn't feel the need to have it explained to her. I think she understood it well enough by observing it. It's really a beautifully made movie, a hand-drawn animation. And I liked it.

It has a 0% chance of winning in this category. And it would be the least seen film in this category by a wide margin. Arco probably next in line there, which is a cool movie that Neon released. The others are really the big hitters. And I have to assume this is K-pop Demon Hunter. do as well. But there's a case for Zootopia, too. Sure.

Big hit. People love it. Demon Slayer would be really bold. Me personally, I would have gone chainsaw man. Okay. But maybe an acknowledgement of the anime craze and what it means to theatrical movie going right now around the world. Yeah. Would be kind of a cool stroke?

I haven't seen Demon Slayer, by the way. Nor have I. W. MAG released its best performances of the year issue. And they do the accompanying videos with Lynn Hirshberg. And Michael B. Jordan's answer to the last movie that made him cry was, first of all, Armageddon, which makes him cry every time, which is same. Michael B. Jordan. And then I don't remember the name of the anime movie, but he explains it. And he was like, it was the fifth season. And then a whole, I guess it was a show. It was very beautiful. And it made me moved, even though. Wow, we got to find out what that was. It wasn't one of these movies? It wasn't Chainsaw Man? I don't think so. Okay. Cool. Chainsaw Man's so confusing because it is a sequel to a season of television. television. Okay. We've seen that before. Yeah. It's called

Downton Abbey. Great point. Although there were like four seasons of Down Abbey. Can I just say to you, salute to you for Downton Abbey, the finale or whatever in your top 50? Movie was great. It was great. I had a ball. We had a ball. We did. But I just like, you know, real ones, no. And I dip, I tip my hat to you. Thank you. Thank you for acknowledging it. And you know, we love what we love. Sure. Also, wherever you put Hamnet was really funny. It's sandwiched in between two things. I was like, that's my guy. I don't even remember being so surgical.

You're crazy, but it was good stuff. I have strongly held beliefs. Best original score. Interesting category here. There's a big surprise in this one. The nominees were Alexander Desplot for Frankenstein, Ludwig Garanssen for sinners, Johnny Greenwood for one battle after another.

Kongding Ray for Sarat, Max Richter for Hamnet, and Hans Zimmer for F1. I don't think Hans Zimmer or Kongding Ray are getting in at Academy Awards. I could be wrong about that. I don't know. Surratt was big on the shortlists, which surprised us both. And I think that is a bit of a reflection of the people who vote both on the shortlists and who watch all the international features are more disciplined than your average voter.

But, you know, it has awareness. And then it was on, I want to say, IndyWire survey of the director's favorite movies of the year. There was a lot of Sarat and there was a lot of. New Belvog. Yeah. So. A lot episode coming. We've got to figure out

when we're going to do that. I'd like to, there's a couple of scores from this year that I feel like are a little overlooked. Okay. I kind of made fun of Ferskin Hendrix's score

from poor things a couple of years ago. But I thought what he did with Begonia was amazing and I listened to it quite frequently. I really like it. I've been listening to a lot of scores lately.

Yeah. Just being like, and now let me cue up the Begonia score. is another incredible insight into your life. What time of day are you putting on the Begonia score? Any old time. Okay.

At dawn, at dusk, as I go to bed? I read your top 100 movies of the year, like in my kitchen during breakfast while my children scream. Like we're banging measuring cups and the Marty Supreme score was playing. Many people are saying that my list making is the soma of life and that we can get through the hard times by looking at lists that I have created. Nalus and Nephro's score for the smashing machine is unbelievable. It's an amazing work of composition. And that movie has gotten kicked a lot in the last few months.

I know a lot of people don't like it. I like it. I now think it's like underrated relative to the Marty Supreme Cray's. And I think one of the ingenious aspects of it is this score. I would love to see something like that around here. The score over the fighting sequences and the way it's married to the way that those Fight or cut, yes. Yeah, and cut.

It is beautiful. Totally. I love that so much. I mean, obviously, we've been talking about Daniel Lopatin's score for Marty Supreme, which is not nominated here. I would love to see it nominated at the Academy Awards. I'm trying to think what are some other ones that I've really clicked on. Can you just vamp for a second while I open up my playlist that I've built?

Yeah. Thank you. So would you like me to make my prediction here? Yeah, sure. I mean, there's, there, I think it will be Ludwig Garnson for sinners. But it could go Johnny Greenwood. I don't think it will, actually. He hasn't won.

Yeah, but I don't really think that the Golden Globes care about that. And you could see Alexander DeSplatt for Frankenstein. Because I keep, which, like, I don't agree with, but. I really didn't like that score. I didn't like it either, but it's not, this is not, again, this is not what we would do. It is what we think the Golden Globes would do. And I think they're going to be looking for some Frankenstein opportunities. Alexander Desplot and Ludwig Garantin are both two-time winners.

Again, it's... That's crazy. He won for Grand Budapest and Shape of Water, and Ludwig won for Black Panther and for Oppenheimer. So overlooking Johnny Greenwood again, even though this isn't my favorite Johnny Greenwood score, I personally much prefer at times. There will be blood and the master and phantom threat.

I think all three of those are superior to this, but it's the most different and the most varied in terms of the different instruments that he applies, the different tones, he's using so I don't know I I am thinking more about the entire ballot and where people and I and I do think that one battle is going to have enough representation in other places okay that people are going to be like I don't know I should I mean you could make the case that sarat is so surprising that there's just like enthusiasm for it and then they'll suddenly be on stage at the golden globes I don't think

that that's going to happen I don't want to be smart to score too much but it is like starter kit club music. You know, like, it's just, it's rave music. It's well, it's well applied in the film, but is there anything like audacious or creative or overwhelming about it? I mean, to me, that's like, that would be a prize for the filmmaking choice, not for the actual composition of the score, but you know what? It's maybe everything all at once. A couple of other scores I want to shout out. Christopher Bear, your guy from Grizzly Bear, did the score for Roofman. Yeah. Really good. David Holmes, as always, crushed it on Black Bag, working with Steven Soderberg. Jung Jail, uh, on Mickey 17.

working again with Bong Joon Ho. The Holiday Brothers on Weapons, a longtime friend of Zach Craigers. I loved their work. I did like Bryce Desner's work. I'm not a national fan, but I did think his work on Train Dreams was really nice. Yeah, beautiful.

Volkerderman in House of Dynamite, a movie that I'm really mixed on, but I think his score is quite good. Yeah, very good. Daniel Pemberton for Materialists. Yes. A lot of really good scores this year, so I just wanted to shout some of them out.

Okay. Okay. Next category. You'll have another opportunity. We have two and a half more months of... You're right. Who did you pick? Sean, you need to make your pick. I'm going to pick Johnny Greenwood just to mix it up. Because I think you're right that Ludwig is going to win, but to me, we need to kind of see if the Johnny Greenwood thing can happen here.

Okay. Okay. Best Motion Picture, non-English language. It was just an accident, no other choice, secret agent, sentimental value, Sarat, the voice of Hindra Job. Yeah. I'm going with Secret Agent here. I wrote it was just an accident. So here's the thing. What is the thing? Secret Agent has one other nomination on this page.

Smart. And it was just an accident is everywhere else. Now, that suggests, I think I did have, it was just an accident. I think instinctively I wrote that and then deleted it and put Secret Agent because there aren't that many other places where they can reward Secret Agent. It was just an accident has four nominations total. So I, but I think that there's such enthusiasm for the Secret Agent. Okay.

I'll go with that. They're going to pick the opportunity here and they can maybe like parcel it out to it was just an accident somewhere else. Sounds really smart. I don't know. I mean, it could also. The other way to read it is it was just an accident

has four other nominations. So they really love it. So they're giving it to it was just an accident. So maybe I'm being stupid. Because the Golden Globes is such a smaller body relative to the Academy Awards or even some of the big guild votes, they can dole out. awards to a variety of different films.

So the way that you're thinking about it is it makes a lot of sense and they can be more strategic in terms of getting more people up on stage and more films spread around. Whereas at the Oscars, in the last four or five years, it's been a little bit more of like one film wins four or five, six Oscars. And you get this consensus building for films around that time. So I think that makes sense. That being said, it was just an accident as a huge statement.

I agree. I mean, I think it is going to show. up. Like, I argued both sides of it. Okay. I'm going, this is good, that we're splitting. And mine also, like, gives a lot more credit to the voters than perhaps they've evidence that they deserve. I suspect that this thinking will come up again in this next category, which is best performance by a female in a supporting role. Nominees are Emily Blunt for the smashing machine, L. Fanning for sentimental value, Ariana Grande for Wicked for Good. Inga, Ibs daughter, Lilius, for sentimental value, Amy Madigan for weapons and Tiana Taylor for one battle after another.

We forgot Ariana Grande and our supporting actress discussion. I do think that will happen. You do think it will happen, but you don't think Cynthia Revo will happen. I didn't say that. Okay. You were putting that into. I said that we would see how much she wants to work it, but I do think that Arianna Grande, the reviews for Ariana Grande were like the big. She's so great. And everyone thinks Cynthia Revo is great, but they were very mad about her sex cardigan or whatever.

So. I don't know if mad was the word, but. They had opinions. Yeah. So then there's someone missing from this list right now. If we're assuming that Emily Blunt is not in and perhaps El Phan. is not in as well. Right.

I don't know who that is. Wunmi Musaku. That would be wonderful. Who am I forgetting? I can't remember. Wunmi Masaku would be great. I picked Tiana Taylor. Okay.

Considering the way that you are analyzing this, you might be right that it's going to be either Amy Madigan or Inga Ibstot or Lillius. I have Inga Ipsed or Lillius. Because this is the way to acknowledge sentimental value. Yes, because I think that she is a real breakout star. And also because these are, these are, they are no longer the Hollywood foreign Correspondence Association, but... So Hollywood Foreign Press.

For a Hollywood Foreign Press Association, that's right. And then the other made-up one is the correspondence dinner. That's the White House. Yeah, I know. Well... I'm hosting that this year, by the way. Did I tell you? I'm super excited.

I've got a lot of great stuff lined up, a lot of good ideas. Can you imagine? That is maybe like the only thing where I would just be like, we're done. That's like, I think literally... Me and you? Yeah, literally anything else in the world you could go do. And I'm like, yeah, sure. And if you were like, what I need to do is I need to host the correspondence.

No, I've been talking to Hague Seth for months. It's going to be great. We are on different past. And that is, I wish you well. Okay. We got to get our Avengers Doomsday episode in first. We can't stop until I've hosted the White House Correspondence dinner, which I don't think happens anymore. And also, I'm not keeping up.

Nine Hour Pod on Doomsday. Okay. Okay. So you're going and get up Stoder Lilius. What happened to sentimental value? What happened? Well, it's, it's coming back a little bit. Is it?

I don't know. You loved it. I think this movie's going to win best picture in July. I know, I have the text message. My friend Lauren loved it. You know, so that's three people. I know. Wow.

It's quite a quorum. I admire two of the three people's taste. Yeah, I really thought it was going to be stronger. And I think part of it is that Secret Agent and it was just an accident have been so strong. And so there being this many international films is a relatively new phenomenon. And so the groups tend to kind of lean towards one or the other.

Maybe a little bit is that it's somewhat similar to the worst person in the world. Maybe it doesn't feel different enough with Renada Renzwe and the story of young women in crisis and, you know, family trauma. And I don't know. I don't know. But I really, as I've said nine times now

in the last three months, like I really think that film is quite good. And particularly it's a case where I try to not get, like, cranky about other critics taking movies down these days. I did that a lot in the past on this show. That's the one movie where I read reviews of that movie, and I'm like, this is such axe grinding. Like, this is such, like, I can't understand it.

There's, I mean, it's funny. There's ax grinding in the movie. There is. You know, which is interesting. And I think that is one of the reasons that I was, it's three different movies and also one movie. And there's still moments in it. I mean, the house opening is so transcendent.

Beautiful filmmaking and writing. And the shot of the house towards the end, again, I'm a superficial person who was most affected by all the stuff about the house. But that's part of the reason why it's such a great movie. I thought you were going to love it. I was blown away that you were not that into it. I really tried twice. But I like all the performances. Again, me and Scandinavians, you know, it's a dialogue.

It is. It sure is. I don't know. That's right. You guys are figuring things out. So much in common and yet so different. So I just, I don't know, you know, I'm trying. Got it, no, no.

I'm monitoring that situation. If you had told me in August that the one way in which sentimental value could be honored at the globe would be Inga Ibstata and Lilius, I'd be like, what the fuck? But like, but don't you think a little bit, maybe the award season issue is that like the being has become or the robot has become sentient? And like now all the things that we kind of talk about and, and, you know, game out. or suggest, like, do you actually happen? Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that's what you were saying before, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I guess it's come online. Yeah, Pinocchio is a real boy. Yeah, no, 100%. I think you're right. Oh, Papa. Best performance by a male actor in a supporting role. The nominees are Benicio del Toro, Jacob Allorty, Paul Meskell, Sean Penn, Adam Sandler, and Stellan Scarsguard.

Right. Now, there's a world in which you could do Stellan Scarsguard here for said mental value. Is that what you're doing? No. It chose Benisiel. As did I. I chose Benicio del Toro. But that doesn't, that logic doesn't really track because this is a way to honor Frankenstein. This is a way to honor Jay Kelly. This is a way to honor other movies that aren't going to get a look.

It could be any of those things, but we have seen like the quote unquote new Golden Globes is just sort of copycat. And I think Benicio is one, just like such an incredible performance. Just straight up loved it. And two, so pervasive like at every single awards ceremony for, you know, up till now that they'll just be like yeah, it's Benicio. He's another one that's so interesting because obviously we adore what he did in the movie and PTA

and Leo have gone out of their way to talk about the ways in which he kind of brought kind of invention and creativity to that character into the structure of the movie. So I'm not, I don't hope this doesn't seem like I'm taking away any of his his achievements, but it reminds me a little bit of the

Renee Zellweger Judy Garland win where I'm like, she has one. Like, what? Why, why the rush to, I like, I like this performance in this movie a lot more than I like Judy. So I don't want to conflate the two. Ocean waves. It gives me a similar feeling of like, Benicio did win in this category, a long time ago. And he's obviously like beloved.

Everybody thinks he's just like one of the great actors of our lifetime. And I'm, he's totally worthy of two. I'm just kind of like talking through an idea here. But it is interesting that someone like Stell and Scarsgard, who has also got this huge body of work. Right. who's obviously very good in that film, and you can make the case that he's the lead of that movie. It's, like, not really even contending, it seems like anymore.

Or maybe that's one of those, like, tricks of the race right now that we're not seen. Maybe he's stronger than we realize. He could be up there on Sunday. I wouldn't be surprised. Okay. I guess I would be surprised, but I wouldn't be like, what? Okay. You don't hold against the kind of, like, thought process I was just going through there with Bidio, right?

Like, I don't want to like... No, no, no, no, no, not at all. I mean, I do... I think that we have been trained. watching these for so long to think in the parlance and the ideology of the awards which is like now we got to give someone

out for this one and it's their time and it's all that stuff and giving Benicio this Oscar would be let's just give an Oscar to the best supporting performance which I think is good let's give an Oscar to the good thing but we're not used to that that's not how we've been brought up you're right you're right that's well put and that is really

jarring to me that we're in this new time best screenplay motion picture The nominees are Paul Thomas Anderson Ronald Bronstein and Josh Safdi Ryan Coogler Jafar Panahi Eskilvocht and Joaquim Trir Chloe Jow

Maggie O'Farrell So I have four different movies written here with double question marks So there are five nominees No there are six nominees So I don't think it's going to go to Ronald Bronstine and Josh Thapty though I absolutely love that movie.

Josh was lovely on the podcast, by the way. I finally got to listen to it. The man. And I don't think that it's going to Chloe Zhao and Maggie O'Farrell for Hamnet. Nor do I. Which is a screenplay I think less of. The other four, you could game, you could argue for all of them. It's plausible.

Last year, Conclave won in this category. And the year before that, Anatomy of a Fall one in this category. And we really only have like a good. screenplays, honestly. Two great screenplays and two films that were nominated for Best Picture, but didn't win. One did go on to a screenplay Oscar. One did not. Yeah, and did Conclave win as well?

Yeah, so they both went on. Peter Strawn. So I guess in that case. Well, that's a good, those are good shouts then. Yeah. So what do we think is winning here? To me, that's, I think sinners is winning. Yeah, I do as well.

And I think sinners in one battle are winning at the Academy Awards. And so if I feel that way, at least right now, you've got to make a choice between those two. And I think they're probably going to go sinners here and PTA bigger. I agree. Okay. So I go with sinners as well. So you're choosing Googler as well. Okay.

Best performance by a female actor and a drama. This is an interesting category, and I like it. I like the nominees here. This is the best thing the Golden Globes has done this year. The nominees are Jesse Buckley for Hamnet, Jennifer Lawrence for Die My Love. Renata Renzvi for sentimental value. Julia Roberts for After the Hunt. Tessa Thompson for Hedda and Ava Victor for Sorry, Baby.

Now, this is what I want an award shows to be, which is like, absolutely. Jesse Buckley, Renata Rensvey, no doubt. Yeah. We've been talking about them for months. They are among the best performances of the year. Two really exciting young actors kind of rising. Jennifer Lawrence, big star. Julia Roberts, big star from a different generation.

Also fantastic performances. No doubt. I think they're both worthy. Tessa Thompson, someone who's like kind of in that honorable mention category throughout this race, so I like this movie getting a little bit of shine, and she's a really good actor. And Ava Victor, this was probably the biggest surprise of the Golden Globe nominations. It's interesting that it's happening in a category where I'm like, there's no competition here. Yeah. And maybe that's kind of the point.

Right. So you can get a little creative. Yeah. And you also have, you don't have any, you have a few extra spots because some of the surefire nominees are over in comedy musical. Exactly. So maybe my question is, should there actually be drama and comedy and musical delineations in the Academy Awards?

We need more, we need more categories. Yeah. And we need more like above the line categories too. Or just like quote unquote recognizable late, you know, to the lay person. Creative people. Some were in front of the camera, somewhere, but who are behind. We should show all of the awards

but it, yeah, we just didn't realize the critic's choice was like giving awards out during the commercials. What the hell is that? I don't know. All right. Jesse Buckley, I assume. We're united on that. Best performance by a male actor in a drama. Another very interesting category.

The nominees are Joel Edgerton for Train Dreams, Oscar Isaac for Frankenstein, Dwayne Johnson for The Smashing Machine, Michael B. Jordan for sinners Wagner Mora for the secret agent. And Jeremy Allen White and Springsteen deliver me from nowhere, which of course was Paul Schrader's favorite film of 2025. What is it? The basis of philosophy? What's the movie called? The basics of philosophy. which is the new name of this podcast.

I'm going Wagner Mora here. I went Michael B. Jordan. It could happen and it would be great. I don't know. I mean, what if it's Dwayne Johnson? What if it's Oscar Isaac? I hope that doesn't happen.

That's a performance I do not. I do as well. That's not a performance I enjoyed. Interesting race. You're really on the Wagner train. You really think this is very powerful. I think it's happening. You can be right.

Like, as we have said, many times, Brazil, right? And then... There are some Brazilian voters in the Golden Globes, but it's not like 10,000 Brazilians vote on the Globes. If Fernando Torres won last year, I don't know. You just got to... Well, you got to know where you are.

Watch this space. I guess so. Actually, watch this space at 4.30 p.m. p.m. p.t. 7.30 p.m. E.T. on Instagram. We're going to go live right before the Golden Globes. Chit chat. Hold on. I'm looking up our Instagram handle. At the big pick pod.

Chris Ryan is so good at this. He has everything memorized. He does it right at the beginning. The email address. But Chris is also in the fucking email. Like he's looking at emails from listeners. Yeah. I did that once and it was a wonderful experience.

And then I saw a lot of like unsolicited opinions and essays. And it's like I don't I don't have time for that. Couldn't be me. But we will be going live on Instagram. Yes. And you go live every morning, right? 6 a.m. I have thought about it.

You know, Yassi Salick goes live from time to time. I've seen it happen. I've thought about joining in from time to time. Like in a FaceTime situation or like going to her house? No, there is a feature where if you are friends with the person, yeah, you can join the live. Real jump scare. Maybe we should have Yassie on the Golden Globes live. I would love that.

I remember she desperately wanted to participate when I was dressed as the papal conclave. Here's the thing. I don't know if she's going to be in our time zone. in any way, shape, or form. Yassi, if you are listening, come home. Where is she? She's in London still. That's fine. And I think she's having a great time.

And it snows. The streets want Yossi back on the pod. We've got to figure, what movie is Yossi going to come and talk about on the pod? Well, she's not going to be back in time for Testament of An Lee, which we saw together. Oh. We went to the beach and then we saw Testament of Anne Lee. It was a beautiful evening. Yeah.

Talk about ecstatic devotion to hanging out and not doing your job. Best performance by a, wait, you picked Wagner Moore, yes? Yeah. Okay. Best Performance by a female actor. musical or comedy. Nominees are Roseburn for If I Had Legs, I'd Kick You, Cynthia Revo for Wicked for Good, Kate Hudson for Song-Sung Blue, Chase Infinity for one battle after another, Amanda Seifred for The Testament of Anne Lee, and Emma Stone for Begonia.

Emma Stone, a bit of an afterthought. Two-time Academy Award winner? That's true. Biggest star in Hollywood. And maybe she's starting, she wasn't campaigning. You know, she hasn't really been out on the trail. She wasn't at the Critics Choice Awards. That's right. But I think she's in the, also in the Debbie Magazine performances issue.

and she clarified that neither she nor Jennifer Lawrence will be playing Miss Piggy. Miss Piggy will be playing Miss Piggy. Does that mean Frank Oz will be playing Miss Piggy? You know, she didn't say that. Okay. Frank Oz is on in years. A legend. One of my favorite people.

And you can call another of your favorite people, Emma Stone, and ask her about this. I just, I'm reading. Emma Stone and Frank Oz talking, I would give me, like, I'd go into cardiac arrest. That is a pot I would listen to. Two goats. We're learning a lot about you today. I'm a normal man I love the Muppets

Yeah I love Redheads Muppet Christmas Carol didn't really take Yeah It's an L for Knox It's okay He just He loves Star Wars

And Whispering Avatar Fire and Ash To me Just he learned the title He's very scared of Avatar Fire and Ash Yeah He's never seen it

Just like all the other films That are being released On Christmas time Terrified of it's box office power I picked Roseburn I wrote Emma Stone Okay I mean sure She's super fan

I don't know. I don't really feel like there's a lot of discipline in this category here. You could see Kate Hudson because she sings. Absolutely possible. Belved member of the Hollywood community. Probably, probably campaigns quite well with the Globes organization. Do you know about Kate Hudson's New Year's Eve party? No. In Aspen. Were you there? No, I wasn't because enough with Aspen. I, like you can't. Enough with Aspen? Yeah. There's so much celebrity content. So the two locuses of celebrity content over the holidays. Oh, I'm sorry. Like, you look at the Knicks, and this is what I look at, okay?

But you're like, excuse me, it's relevant, it's Jermaine. But I've been to a Knicks game. Like, you've not been to Aspen and you're like, enough with Aspen. But listen, Kate Hudson was in Aspen. Leo was in St. Bartz. None of the Knicks are nominated here today. So what I'm talking about? The Knicks are in a fucking tailspin.

Is, oh, no. What happened? They look terrible. I don't know. The defense is falling apart. Okay. I, Kate Hudson hosts a New Year's Party, New Year's Eve party in Aspen. And there's a lot of drumming

And there's a bonfire and all sorts of stuff A lot of drumming Yes, that's what she explained And a bonfire So would you be interested in that? You like mountains I do like the mountains quite a bit I would love to go to Aspen

I'm nothing against Aspen Not really a bonfire guy I'm not 18 Yeah And that's something cool that you do And you light some shit on fire And run around and drink Natty Light The like the logistics of it

I just where are you supposed to sit You know, because you're too close and then your face is just on fire. You're too far away. You're freezing cold. You can't see anything. Like, I just... Hard to believe you didn't get invited to this party. Give it all your bonfire ethics.

Okay, so Emma Stone is my pick and Roseburn is your pick and it'll probably be Kate Hudson. It wins. Best performance by a male actor, musical, or comedy. Nominees are Timothy Chalameh for Marty Supreme. George Clooney for J. Kelly, Leonardo DiCaprio for one battle after another. Ethan Hawk for Blue Moon. Lee Bionhun for no other choice. Jesse Plemons for Bagonia.

a name we have not been uttering very much these days. Who do you think is winning? I wrote down Chalemay. I wrote down Leonardo DiCaprio. Okay, well, we'll find out. I've chosen three acting winners from one battle. Leo, stay in the country until Sunday. He's not listening to the show.

You know, I learned his Houston's order over the break. That's another thing I learned. What? It was posted on Dumois. Can you guess his use of order? Okay, well, then it's verified if it's posted on Dumois. What the fuck? There is South Beverly Grill.

This is, it's honestly the most psychotic thing I've ever heard. They ordered the artichokes like a, you know, a seasonal Houston special team. Lina Carprio and Vittorius Reddy. Okay. And the administrators of Domwe all sitting together? No, the tipster. They ordered the artichokes and took them to go, did not touch them. This is not authorized content.

Like, we are owned by a global corporation. You can't just be like, this happened. What you meant to say was you read on the internet that. tipster may have erroneously shared what could or could not be the South Beverly Grill order. All right, Mr. You know, suddenly your legal ethics.

Come on. Yeah. Anyway, a man's order in a restaurant is sacred. Artichokes to go is like on the level of you being like, I turn on the begonia soundtrack, whatever. Like, why are you taking

a hot artichoke to go? I kind of want to just put it on right now, just vibe out for the next 10 minutes before we make the final two picks. I have no idea what's going to win. Emma Stone and Leo is like a really weird picks from me, but I just feel like, I'm just trying to make an interesting. Listen, I went Normie on these.

You went interesting. You went normie on other ones. It's fine. What if Jesse Plymonds gets up there? I'd be wonderful. Then we get a reaction shot to Kiki. You know who would get knocked out of the Oscar race? Probably Ethan Hawk. That would be sad. So, I don't know. Interesting race.

Best director. Okay. Paul Thomas Anderson. Ryan Coogler, Guillermo del Toro, Jafar, Pannahi, Yolkeem Trir, and Chloe Jow. I think I have Paul Thomas Anderson here. I do too. Yeah. I mean, I think it's undeniable.

I mean, it could be Panahi. You never know. Like, Guillermo del Toro could be up there. It could be Coogler. I don't think that it'll be Trier, but maybe you could see it. I think Trier and Jow are not in. I agree the other four are all in play.

But I'm going with Paul Thomas Anderson. Okay. I do you think he's going to feel about having to give him 19 speeches in the next three months? It doesn't seem like something he truly loves. I hope that he'll spend some time, you know, with people who give him confidence. And I don't know, then go write some really weird-ass movies about his feelings. Can I tell you what I would do if I was in? Yeah.

I would bring a combination TV and VCR up to the stage, and I would pop in the VCR. the VHS copy of Boogie Nights and it would be queued up to the scene where Dirk Diggler accepts the adult film star awards. And I would just play that and then I would walk off stage. Okay. And I would do that at every award show. Okay. So is it like on one of those little roller

carts that we had in elementary school? Yeah. Yeah, they roll it out. But it's got to be VHS. Is it a combo TV VCR? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's all one machine. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. I mean, you could probably get like one of those like straps that they put on at Target for diapers and stuff. and just, like, carry it that way.

You know, you don't even need a card. You need a more heavy-duty one than that, right? Sure. I mean, yeah, it wouldn't be tape, but you could get some sort of... He should just wear a backpack. Just put in a backpack. Get on stage, unzip his backpack, pull out the TV VCR. That'd be good.

That would not be at all weird. I do miss. You know what I miss? Mm-hmm. I'm feeling loose. I just miss the 90s. And yet you won't let me talk about art shows. You just got plenty of time on artichos.

In the 90s, when the Beastie boys were like, we're sending up some guy. Yeah. in a, you know, Teutonic yodeling outfit to accept our award. Yeah. That was fucking great. I mean, I, too, miss the Beastie Boys. It's one of the major reasons that I loved Marty Supripe so much.

But just in general, just that sense of... Yeah. It's not being so stuffed shirt about everything. Fucking around a little bit. It's why I liked that Timmy speech last year. He was just like, fuck it. I'm Steve Jobs. You know, like, that was very funny.

Okay. Best Motion Picture Drama. Okay. Frankenstein, Hamnet. It was just an accident, secret agent, sentimental value, and sinners. I guess I'm going to do what I said I was going to do and do it was just an accident. Bold. It is bold, but it's nominated in Best Motion Picture Drama, Best Director, Best Screenplay, and International Future, right?

Like, it's everywhere it needs to be. so and if they do sinners and I think you're going to pick sinners and I think that's right and that's what I would vote for I don't know I could be wrong but what if I'm right it's one way to go through life I picked sinners

I think it'll be sinners okay I think this will confirm that the race will be sinners versus one battle yeah it'll be interesting because they're from the same studio and we can talk about musical or comedy right now so we can kind of cap with that quick discussion So from musical or comedy, Blue Moon, Begonia, Marty Supreme,

no other choice, New Val Vogue, one battle after another. Yeah. One battle. Correct. Would be very surprising if one battle after another

did not win here. If it doesn't win, all bets are off because of the point that you're making where it's just like, this is on TV. Yeah. People are going to see this.

And if it doesn't win, it will be the first surprising thing, truly surprising thing that has happened in this stretch run. I don't think it's likely. I don't even really know what would win. It feels like a lot. It's head and shoulders above all the other contenders.

I guess Marty Supreme is closest. Yeah. Maybe the freaks out there push for begonia. We didn't have begonia on our last top ten. Yeah, the amount of begonia on this list was, I think, a surprise to all of us. And there was almost no begonia on any of the short lists. Very true. Very true.

It's an interesting one. I know there was a lot of Sarat, so we put Sarat on there. Sarat getting best picture would be nuts. But you never know. You don't. You never know. One battle versus Sinners versus Hamnet, still the top three? is Hamnet

is not a critics movie but it is an industry movie yeah is Hamnet going to have a bigger night than we realize well where would it win it would I think it will win in best actress

do you I don't think it's going to win adapted screenplay over PTA I don't think so either but who knows I mean if it does then like you know uh oh

do you think what else would it win I don't I think trauma oh you mean on And, you know, I was just gaming out the Oscars. All mescal? Maybe.

Listen. I'm just counterfactual. The world is full of possibilities. We've explored some of them in our predictions. Just trying to keep my energy out. What I have written down here at the bottom of all of this is no Frankenstein and 12 question marks. So it just seems weird to me that. The no Frankenstein wins?

Yeah. I mean, they don't really do a ton of below the line stuff here at the gold. Golden Globes, and that's really where it's going to dominate in production design and costume design, in hair and makeup, maybe in visual effects. Like, those are the places where it's really going to show up. Yeah. It's there for score. And it could win, as you said.

Desplot could win. Right. But it's just, it was nominated in supporting actor, best actor, drama, director, and Best Picture drama. So I don't know. And it just feels like a globesy kind of thing. You're right. It'll probably sweet.

I'm saying. It feels like a Golden Globes thing. I don't know. It's a good point. You know, no other choice has three Golden Globe nominations. Which is very cool. It's also going more wide this Friday. I don't know how wide it's going.

It had a very limited release on Christmas. I hope it's going into a lot of theaters. It's a little hard to say because it's a very entertaining movie. It's not a stuffy awards movie. And in fact, one of the reasons why I think it's maybe not going to do is well at the award shows it's because it's black humor

it's been very violent and elaborate let's talk a little bit about it so it's directed by Park Chen Wook he's got three co-writers in the film Li Kyeongmi Don McKellar who he's been

working with quite a bit in the last few years and Li Jaha Hay it's based on the novel The Axe by Donald Westlake there actually has been another adaptation of this novel that Costa Gavris made

about 25 years ago I've never seen it I'm fascinated a two seat it was hard to track down I tried to track it down last night. The stars of this movie are Libyan Hun, Son Yijin, Parki-San, Li Sung-min. Abruptly laid off after 25 years at the same company,

a desperate man goes to extreme lengths to eliminate the competition for the job that he wants. Now, I know you first saw this movie at the Venice Film Festival, and you revisited it last night. What did you think? I mean, this is just an excellent. Everything about it is so well done

that you're just kind of like, I can't. believe how good this is and that it's sustained so well over two and a half hours of what is like it is comedy it is very very hard to hit this tone this consistently um not to mention all of like the you know production design and just like the shots the beautiful shots you know everything that is done so beautifully within it but there is a very specific understanding of the attitude that this movie has about the world and the character in it that is consistent in a way that's

like pretty amazing. Yeah, I agree. It's kind of it's such a tic-tac-toe movie for me. I loved it. I've talked about it a couple times already on the show because it is both of those things. And over the years, if you read interviews with Park, he and if you read reviews of his work, like Hitchcock comes up over and over again. Yeah. And I think even when we talked about the handmade and on 25 for 25, we were like, if they would to let Hitchcock get his kink out in the world. This is kind of what he would have done.

And this movie is another continuation of that. And, like, Libyan Hun is in the Jimmy Stewart part in this movie and this really fine grain combination of scary and violent and extremely strongly framed social commentary. Up against really funny sense, attitude is the word you used. And I like that word a lot. It's kind of like, everyone's a fucking idiot. We're all kind of screwed.

these are terrible systems that we've created for ourselves and we're all kind of trapped there's these like vagaries that get us through the day and we've tricked ourselves into thinking like oh if I have the perfect nuclear family and if I have the perfect house I'll be really happy but it can all be taken away from us so quickly and then what do we do when that thing is taken away from us but kind of constantly played where like the lead of the film

is simultaneously sympathetic and a buffoon and that's also really hard to do right and we talked about this a little bit with Bob Ferguson, a little bit with Marty Mouser, the lead character being like, is this guy good or bad? Right. How much, do I like spending time with him? Is the film rooting for him, and am I supposed to be rooting for him? And this is like a very interesting twist on that.

I don't think that this film is rooting for anyone. No. And sort of rooting for all of us in the sense that, oh, we live, you know, in this nightmare that we've created. Mm-hmm. I saw this movie maybe a day after I saw Bagonia at the Venice Film Festival, and I thought that they were a very interesting double header, which they were there because they were both about men of slightly different ages

and certainly, like, different sociological settings. But men who have been cast out of the world and, like, the social system by, like, basically, you know, like the global corporation and are realizing that they're upon, are realizing that they've lost their sense of pace and are kind of losing it in the way that they respond to it. Now, who's right and who's wrong and what's real and what's not?

And who's the hero and who's the villain kind of gets turned on their heads in different ways. And one of them is kind of like a gotcha thriller. And this is, no other choice is sort of a thriller, but it is more like a man on a mission. And then ultimately, like what the mission is the last shot

of no other choice is as depressing in its own way as the coda of begonia is in its way as well of and it's sort of like

you got these men were like validated almost and then like you get what you wish for yeah right but alone you know

like right but defeated you know like and it was sort of like we're all defeated it's a really good comparison and I do think there's something very Spartan about Begonia. Like it's a very stripped down movie

and no other choice is the opposite. No other choice is so ornate and elaborate. And like honestly a little bit confusing at times and it was very helpful to see it a second time just to kind of understand the mechanics of the quote unquote kills. So just I mean we'll spoil the movie a little bit because I spoiled it a little bit with Park 2 and we talked.

But after he's laid off, he tries to get another job. We see him in this family life early in the film and he's very happy. He's barbecuing. celebrating with his family. He got some eel from the company. He's been able to touch like upper middle class lifestyle.

Right. That's sort of what the movie is showing. It's like once you reach this status and what happens when it gets taken away from you and what does it mean? And how do you account for the loss? And so... And what was that status in the first place?

Right. It's ultimately fairly meager. Yeah. But at the time, you think you're on top of the world. And this is a very common thing that is in the movies this year all throughout. It's like it's in one battle. It's in Mark Kerr in the same.

smashing machine. You know, it's a lot of these men who are like, I've reached a certain level of achievement in my professional life and in my personal life. And I now am like king of the world. I've like master of my domain. And then one guy checks one spreadsheet on one laptop at the company you work at and you're out. Yeah. And then you have to figure out where to go. It's very, the satire is very broad in the movie. But the, the construction of the story is so elaborate that I think it kind of overwhelms the simplicity of like corporation bad like we know. Right. So he figures out after working this basically physical labor job in a giant department store that he's got to find his way back into the world of paper. He worked in the paper company.

Right, which is also, you know, a perfect metaphor that starts from the very, very first scene. Yes. It's like something from the earth that is made tactile by human hands, but that is also going out of fashion in the way that we experience the world in this world of screens. That's all in the Westlake book. It's in the Costa Gavre's movie as well. Like it's a paper company that he works for. And he realizes that there's only so many jobs because of all this consolidation. His company that laid him off was acquired by an American company.

This globalization is affecting everybody. This is a movie that originally Park wanted to make in America, but he couldn't really get it going. And so he had to make it in his native Korea. And he decides he needs to start eliminating potential contenders for the very few open positions in the job, which is such a funny idea. But he's a regular middle class guy. He's not, he has a greenhouse and he has some, you know, utility with his hands, but

like he doesn't really know what he's doing. And so he goes through these series of kills, kind of like bumbling his way through every single murder. But he is successful. Like he does kind of pull it off. And so to your point about like, is this guy good? Is he bad? Is he successful?

Is he not successful? It's like he does kind of do what needs to be done. this movie. And he does ultimately, I mean, like, what he believes, what he believes or what he set up for himself. And there is, in almost every, like in every kill scene, there is like a moment where he's like, wait, what am I actually doing? And is this really, really going to happen? Right. And the mania kind of catches out like on, and he becomes more convinced of his own plan as it goes on. But I hadn't realized until my rewatch, there's a, like, the still that's being used in the movie, which is of...

The pot. Yeah, the pot being held up is actually he chickens out. Yes. And he doesn't, that is not actually the first kill. That is sort of where the idea or part of the idea comes from. But he's holding up a plant that he then uses, like, to start a fake company to trap everyone. So it is, it's the beginning of the, like, the illusion as much as it is of this, like, I'm going to, like, kill people. And it's a perfect little thing, too, right?

It's like the whole movie is all about a person who cares for trees and living things. There's a lot of time spent with him caring for a bonsai tree and showing the kind of nature in which you have to kind of like bend and contort the bonsai to take care of it until to allow it to grow, which is obviously a very late metaphor for the way that we have to kind of like bend ourselves around the system so that we can survive inside of the system. And then the idea of a tree, paper is made from trees being used as this inspiration point for. this plan where he like sets up a job at a paper company with a catalog all from paper and trees to bring in these three men who are effectively like middle managers like he was at paper companies and are out of work or at least two of them are out of work and he needs to get rid of these guys so that a job can open up so that he can fill in that spot these other men are more qualified than he is too which is a nice testimony like to the ends that these

this world drives us to where it's like I'm in desperate competition with this other loser guy who lives one town over because that's just the nature of, you know, an aggressive capitalist system. So you've got like all of that stuff, which is very fun and rich and often very funny. And you've also got this family drama about a guy who's like lost his sense of masculinity because he's lost his job. And he feels like his wife who's beautiful. And she has to go to work to backfill for the lack of income in the home. And she's working for a hot dentist as a dental hygienist. and a dental assistant.

Right. And he's worried about that she's cheating on him. And then that is also dovetailing with one of the murder, potential murder victims who's also being cocked at this time. Yeah. And like, this is an elaborate movie with a lot of twists and like a lot of wrapped ideas. And he's got a huge toothache throughout that he won't get, you know, fixed, which is, like I know is symbolic in Freudian psychology or whatever, but it also relates to the actual dentist. And then when it is finally, quote unquote, fixed is somewhat

climactic and grotesque. He's going to do it himself. Yeah. Yes. That's the only way through is to just push through. So there's all kinds of fun stuff and I probably will watch this movie again because it revealed a lot on my second watch. And then the other thing is while I'm watching

it, it's hard to not be overwhelmed by the technique. Yeah. That he's using camera angles and camera placement and transitions and wipes and he's using a lot of superimpositions where he's like mapping one image onto another image so you can see like the duality, the mask that people are wearing, the secret truth hiding beneath them, like all these very traditional.

You can see like what's around the corner or what's around like the, you know, and that gives you juxtaposition of like this house that is an amazing house and, you know, so idyllic, but just like seems to be when you look at it from another direction is like just like off a random highway and there's like an office park nearby and all sources of. You know, like the... But this is the house that he grew up in, so he has also idealized it. Exactly. Even though it's like, it's a middle-class house off a highway.

You know, like so many of us, like I grew up in, you know, like so many people grew up in. But you tend to think that these are these like totems of accomplishment. I think that a lot of those visual choices that he makes throughout the movie are really smart. He talked a lot about the selection of the house and why and how they built it. And, you know, it's a really interesting and unusual style. Again, like, I thought I was asking a good question. And he was like, I have a 30-minute answer to your question about a house. You know, he's like, he's really put a tremendous amount of thought.

The house plays like a huge role and is also like designed in a way, not just to allow for like the certain setup of the shots and, you know, where the kids are standing on the stairs as you hear something in the like, you know, the kitchen or the, et cetera. But also like where the tree is outside the window and the tree obviously has a lot of, is that a real red pine? I'm going to be a white pine. I'm sorry. I'm going to be heartbroken if it's not. I don't know. And how the tree is also set. But then there are some shots where I'm just like, I can't believe you got the clouds to look like that.

It's true. There is CGI in the movie. And I think he uses CGI very artfully as a filmmaker. There was a lot of CGI in Decision to Leave as well. And another movie that I think is really rewarding on a rewatch, much like Decision to Leave. Also, a great movie that screens. One of the things that's really funny is when he meets, I think it's, is it Siang Chol, the manager at the paper company. And then he leaves and he realizes that he's also this kind of rival manager is also an influencer.

and he's constantly looking at his social media. When the movie really effectively renders that sense of like jealousy, aspiration, the kind of like ugliness of performing for social media, but also that like this is getting this guy somewhere and I don't know how to do this. All unspoken. None of it is really communicated. We just watch him watching another guy. Just a good idea.

Even the way that he's watching it in that particular scene, he's lying on the couch and holding the phone directly above his head, which is not... Just like Bob Ferguson. Oh, that's right, yeah. Yes. But it is... But, you know, and allows, like, a lot of different setups.

It's cinematically interesting, which, you know, most people would just have their phone up to their face. He does have that when he's in the bar. When he's in the bar and he's kind of discovering him talking about, like, paper and trees and things like that. The other thing I really liked, it was a really funny Netflix joke in the movie where they're talking about like what they have to cut out of their budget

and in the background you can hear the to-dum hit when the kids are firing it up and there's like the movie is very much about what happens when you go from upper middle class to middle class to lower middle class and the panic that sets in which is a very I mean this is something

that has been happening in America for the last 25 years who kind of hollowed out a whole class of people who felt like they were in very stabilized industrialized spaces and whether those jobs have been moved overseas or have been moved into you know AI assisted robots

which is really what this film is ultimately focused on that this is a very relatable movie. It's an absurd arch-hitchcockian thriller, but its core idea is very up with people. And yet, it also has a real Cohn brothers like everybody's a moron energy. Right. Tasty stew. We didn't mention ballroom dancing. Oh, God. Which also sets up a whole.

I mean, there is a lot of the young daughter is a cellist. That's like the emotional, like, very sad part about it. She's a very gifted cellist. Neurodivergent, it seems. Yeah. She only speaks in, you know, repeating other people's words. And they have to give the dogs away, which, like, I'm not a dog person, but that's really sad. Brutal.

And so, but so there's a cello plot line. There is a whole thing about stolen phones, speaking of screens. That's right. And then just, you know, some really baroque and gross deaths or what we do. with bodies after death. There's one kill in particular where he folds up a cadaver. It's so fucking crazy.

That is great. There's just great imagery and obviously is a callback to the bonsai bending and you're meant to see and the recognition of his son through the greenhouse in the same way that he saw him

through the greenhouse early in the film. A lot of echoes throughout the movie, a lot of repeating and recurring images. Lebeon Hun, I want to talk about him quickly. Really interesting actor. It's probably best known for these kind of like intense Korean thrillers. really charismatic and handsome guy.

He's older than I thought he was. He's 55. He's been around for a while. The last time he worked with Park was in Park's first film, joint security area. So this is a reunion for them. And he has been in a bunch of American movies.

And he's always been used in this really like po-faced, like exoticized, like Asian assassin kind of way. He was Storm Shadow in the G.I. Joe movies. He was in the Magnificent 7 remake, which is a big CR movie. But in this,

this movie he really plays this like physical comedy like it's almost like a Jim Carrey part yes he's twisting his face a lot yeah a lot of yeah contortion it's malleable yeah yeah um i really really like him and then i mentioned earlier in the episode son you gin who plays his wife right who is dynamite in this movie where like she's secretly the one running the family she probably could have saved his job if he had like included her more in like the execution of his career one of the funnier scenes in the movie is when he's like early on preparing his I'm getting axed speech to his new American boss. And he's just like being cheered on by four other guys who are about to get fired.

I'm in front of the logs. And very quickly the American, when he gets one second with him, is like, there was no other choice. He gets in a car and leaves. But she is the simultaneously the most decent, but the craftiest. And when the moment arrives where she needs to like use her wiles to get the family to safety. It's without her that he would not be safe Despite all this insane shit that he does The kills

I mean my favorite Is I guess the first Because he doesn't really do it He doesn't really do it But really just because of the music absolutely blaring So I did not know this Park said this That's one of the most popular songs in Korean music history Oh I had no idea

I think it's like playing My Heart Will Go On or something Oh, that's, I mean, that's even funnier, but I didn't, I, it's, it's Italian? Is it? No, it's not. I thought it was a Korean song. Is it a Korean? Jack, I don't know if you can help fact check that one for us. I think I saw it in Italy. So I was like, oh, are you doing? And, and I think the Italian subtitles came on to explain what it was saying. And I was like, oh, is this an Italian. Gotcha. Anyway, I think it's a Korean. I think it's a Korean pop song. That would make more sense. Yeah. Anyway, it was great. I mean, also seems like a banger to me. I understand why it's my heart will go on in a, in Korea. Maybe not the most perfect comment. I've ever made. Maybe it's dude looks like a lady, you know, for in South Korea. I'm not actually sure. I like that one the best, too,

although I do think that entire stretch where he goes to Central's house and a drink and the tooth. Yeah. And then the very gross scheme to make it seem as though he's choked on his own vomit. It's just like,

it's pretty out there, man. Like, you got to remember, this is the guy who made old boy. You know, and I think he's become, he's become, like, world cinema master and making, you know, celebrated U.S. streaming services films or television shows. But he's a freak. Oh, yeah. He's a big-time freak. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he's into some really kinky weird shit, and he is really good at rendering it on screen. Just confirming that song is Korean. Thank you. Okay. The ending. Yeah. I mean. So he gets away with it.

Mm-hmm. for a variety of reasons but one of the reasons is that the first victim's wife who was cucking him kind of sort of takes the fall in some ways her husband takes the fall for a series of events and he gets the job

he gets the job and when he gets to the job he realizes he no longer really has any colleagues that he's just managing an AI operated station and his trustee wooden stick that allows him to check the, I don't know, the virility of the paper is no longer necessary

because there are tools that do that. And then is the final shot that you're referring to the, in the, in the forest with the lumber and the... Yeah, well, first it's him celebrating alone in the robot warehouse and he's the only person there and it's a wide shot and he's like almost dancing.

Yes. And then it cuts to the robot cutting down trees why you got the credits. Yeah, I asked Park about that too, and I was just like, did you shoot that? Like, where did that come from? He's like, that's stock footage. So, like, he ended his film on stock footage.

But it's the most chilling footage you've ever seen in your life. It's so messed up. It's like a giant machine that is controlled by robots, cutting down trees in the natural world. And that's just what, that's where we're at. Yeah. That's what's going on. That's not good.

Bad news. I learned a lot more about logging this year than I thought that I would. Yeah, train dreams. Yeah. No other choice. What else? I mean, those two, but that's two more movies about logging than I thought I would experience and engage with. Did you end up seeing the Ken Kesey sometimes a great notion movie that Paul Newman directed?

I don't think so. Okay. That's also about logging. Okay. But I don't think that was on my watch list last year. Okay. In fact, I think you tried to be like, ooh, train dreams again, logging. And I don't know if train dreams is really about logging.

And what happened in your top five? the movies of the year. That's right, but I'm just saying I don't know if I would have led with the logging. Any other thoughts on Park? I mean, Dynamite movie. Really good. Really good. Let's go to my conversation with Park Chan Wook. Director Park Chan Wook and his interpreter G.1 Lee, very happy to have you both here to talk about this film. I wanted to start by hearing what led you to reading Donald Westlakes the Axe. What led you to that book in the first place.

Point Blank is Leamabin Nowon Younger's really unerled fan and but the movie's written, well,

in the film as well, the source of the other work that's been

that that said, I'm quickly I'm I'm a die-hard

fan of the film Point Blank starring Lee Marvin. And as soon as I heard that this writer who wrote the original novel for the film, although for point blank used a different pen name,

as soon as I heard that he had other works that he had written, I immediately looked for that novel. I know the film started out as a potential American adaptation and shifted to South Korea. So what specifically needed to change by shifting it to a different country? Well, bonjil to back in one

I think it's one first the Mudoh is the

American York or concept was was it wasn't

not not because the American movie American movie

making used got got in so so Abraham

Lincoln or like American the people used with

people come and came up those people know

But that one is a four countess was a concept that was not even used to use not even

used to get back and forget that's a little a bit a bit a bit

I don't think there are any fundamental changes but there are more detailed

differences between the two versions so for instance the dance party scene

was initially U.S. history themed this was not something that was in the novel

we decided to include this in the process. So there were people dressed up as U.S. historical figures like Abraham Lincoln, and Pocahontas, which was included in the film, was one of

those characters initially. And we couldn't keep that same theme in the Korean version of the film. So we had to give that up, which I was very sad about. And that's the part, but the new is, it's a certain

Mansu's Mansu's Cymolet Chimmy is a endang's on just just the

just on shillot turned back and bansett done that was something we had to

take out as we changed this into a Korean film as for things that we added it was the

element of bonsai and this was the extension of Mansu's love and hobby

for plants. So he's not just working in his garden. He's also stuck in his greenhouse working with his bonsai. That's the idea of the idea of production designer is a on-sill-cum-sus-combeing that sort-fum

to use using him, I'd like that, you're saying it. That's just-tard-old I agree with and just just a

just a just a just like a more even more like it would be a lot of

getting so I'm so that like that just to get used to give and

a mowler and making and the to the to

seechety to cut and cut and it's using

using ...buttioning ...cholsarer mucked and bookies to reduce-sick and puttick that

particularly that's interesting that's the son-in Siwani's actmong

in Sioni's all saw-monged I was an issue of the idea was an issue of a suggestion from a

production designer about using bonsai as a prop in the greenhouse and I said I liked the idea but thinking further upon it, I realized that we could use this more than just decor.

We could use it cinematically. So I continue to develop this idea further. And it was featured in scenes where Bansu was overcome with jealousy. There's the moment when he breaks the branch of the bonsai. Or for this moment, when he's taking care of his victim's body. And instead of using a chainsaw to take care of the body, he uses a wire and ties up the body like a bonsai. And of course, the bonsai was also featured in this scene. where Mansu's son, Si-Wan, is having a nightmare,

and he's also included in that little bonsai world as well. So, so, it's so much more, the problem is, you know, Mansu's who's how much how much of how much about that's to make that a certain

important sopum in a dream in a one of a one of that's

a design and so a design and a kind of a

like a kind of that's that's really all and all the whole lot of

that's a beautiful but it's but also there's a little a little a

kind of that's that the that's kind of kind of inhuman kind of

in-gongonged kind of kind of power mansu's that's that's that's

that's not it's that's that's that's that's think you And as the meaning and significance of the bonsai expanded, the bonsai became an important tool to show how Mansu thinks of his family as well. Just like in that nightmare scene, Mansu considers his family as this world that he designed and tends, just like how he tends to his bonsai. And of course, there's a beauty in the way that he pours his heart into tending his family and the bonsai. But if you look at it from a darker side, there's that artificial force that he's using.

to bend the branch of the bonsai to a shape of his liking. That's also very similar to how he treats his family as well. He talks in the film, too, about how he's built the home and built all of these particular aspects of the home, and that would make it difficult for him to leave the home. I'm curious, how did you find that house? Was it constructed? Did it already exist?

And what were you looking for in it? that that that's that's a humphan time

is a long long time it's so pre-production or

to start to I'm already even location scouting team

that that the house that the job that

the location scout team is out the team

is so so I'm not only all the country, we're going to a house I immediately knew

that finding that house was going to be a very arduous process so even before we started pre-production there was a location scouting team designated to find the right house and they immediately started

touring the entirety of South Korea to look for the right house I was when 70-Dade In the first of the same time of the state of the house was something that was often seen back when I was younger in the early 70s. They used the same blueprint to build that same cookie cutter house all across the country. And this

kind of the country when the economic start to

the sort of the kind of that kind of kind of kind of

business public business so such got got got

so this was initiated by the real estate industry so

because Korea was a poor country at the time just as

economic growth was just beginning to start, the real estate people tried to utilize the envy that people had towards this middle-class lifestyle. And then, the European's certain European's

serend-dent life-henged life-henged like sure that's kind of develop

developers are blanso-juete France-ju- -jörn that don't all-o-wle-

name with so-uenged and this structure of a house became popular under

this fold title, the French style house. And this was trying to utilize the Korean's dream and envy to emulate the modern European lifestyle. Well, you've seen as far as far as, but suredash style is not, butch, but it's just a people, particularly

the construct guys and it's a monged it was a not a humonged and it was

and it and it's and it so much many different jobs. But

now from it all that's all got all it's more

more than more than more some some some some some

some some maybe in the whole style of

humm As you have seen from the movie, the structure of the house, the architecture style isn't French at all. It was really just a marketing trick to sell this type of houses. And of course, that design was a nightmare to architects with refined taste at the time. And it was all the more pathetic, especially because of the fact that they built that same design all across the country. So today, because that structure of the house is mostly gone, it's very hard to see that style of a house today. it actually feels more interesting to see a style like that, to see those fusion of different cultural architecture styles in one house. So, so that's a job of our music team and I, now, now, you know, design is sort of the webbiok's, like, this, like, mudgely-moony-moangue of concrete dungary, one more brutalist-yangic idiom of puttoucher,

a little more good-tog-blemonged hosy style made it. So after we found the right

house, the production designer and I continued to redesign the existing house.

So something that we added with this was this wavy pattern concrete

exterior to the house inspired by the brutalist style. So that

made it even more confusing in terms of the cultural architectural style.

The film features what feels like a scene from my life where a father is prone on his back watching an influencer video and a young daughter is watching television when we talked for decision to leave

you talked about the use of cell phones this film that features AI as a component a character in the film literally says a phone contains all of a person's life you're consistently interested in showing the way that this technology invades our life why is that important to you Yeah, I'm

a film to make in style style of some kind of

some kind of kind of kind of kind of I'm so sort of think

that that's notp not much mean, that's but that

that's that that's that that's I that's some

sort or characters are exactly mowsy to know how

it's kind of and that's quite a bigger I'm always

I'm always I'm in the life in the life's and

in in life in this technology is very

very very much really in our life in

in that so that that really reality of

not not that is in my filmmaking style I always strive for a more classical style or to put it more crudely an old-fashioned style and I believe that is the method that best accurately portrays the story and the characters that I want to portray. So even though my style is old-fashioned in portraying the lives of the modern person especially a modern Korean person technology is inevitably tied to all of their

lives. And I didn't want to turn away from portraying that accurately. You say you use an old-fashioned style, but the film feels very maximalist. And where you put the camera, the sound design, the color is very explosive, even for one of your films. I was thinking of the shot through the boiler maker, the glasses. Why did the movie demand all these gestures? I mean, I was a year-seem I made and then

it's a lot of because, well, the TV series sympathizer is it but

you know a film as it is it that it's

some different that other style I want always I'm

always I like that have right one in the other

what's going to do do not a lot of different that's

a little a way a way was this

this was my film right after my previous film

decision to leave of course I also made the TV series the

sympathizer in between those projects but in terms of just

films this was my next project after decision to leave and

I knew that I wanted to try a different style from my previous movie. That's actually a habit of mine, always trying to do something different from what I had just done. So, because decision to leave had such a minimal style, that's why no other choice ended up looking that way. And then, and then, you know, the color about a certain way, I I'm a fielum

film look I'm kind of that's always that's that's

that's I'm got to I'm a kind of kind of feeling

film look I'm really such that film look is

what is that that that that that's that that's

what's what's I? I just something like digital, the same thing

than different kind of gray and the kind of the result of pretty, the color, the shadow

sort of kind of not and that's that's I'mgion thought but

this this, I've done actually tested a one and the same

the same the same the picture and look film

with video and video film is a much more chado and contrasts and more, more, what,

more, what, more, what, so, so, this film, and the eye in the lens

selects, also that's kind of way. And since you mentioned color,

to discuss color specifically, my goal for the film was to recreate the film look.

And just from that statement, you know how old-fashioned my taste. is. So I've always wondered and had an obsession with that film look. In contrast to that saturated feeling of the digital footage that we see today, I've always believed that film has more grain,

it's more foggy, and it's less saturated. And to really test that out, we actually set up the same lighting and used the same subject and filmed it with film ones and on digital ones. And then what I actually learned was that film has higher saturation, higher contrast, and felt more intense in general. So in the D.I process and in the lens selection that was a direction that I was striving for. And,

that's mentioned, the mcjjucan rigginged camera, that's much the kind of that's a different angle

that's a angle I'm but I'm something kind of something kind of something that's

not-be-not-b-b-b-pond-threat-like-like-like-like-kind-looking-old that angle is nother. Of course, you know, but, of course, Manu's-Eye-to-one-buttion-one-all-a-moment is what what's what's the meaning is what's the manu's

mouth to move to move to one moment a moment, a moment, a moment, it's really

smocked getting made to make so much the rigging made it. And as for that

beer glass moment that you mentioned, it's a very unique camera set up since the camera is rigged

right on top of the glass. But it wasn't an attempt to create this cool, never seen before, unique setup just for uniqueness sake. The audience knows the significance of the bombshot, the significance of Mansu drinking in this moment. That's why I wanted each gulp, each moment, to feel breathlessly nervous for the audience. That's what kind of, what kind of kind of camera like you can't even. movies, you know,

that's more more than more than more than camera use all the time time. These

people are 70-year film around when something sort of sort of something

but it's not this setup might feel like a modern camera set up to audiences

perhaps, but you can actually find more creative and bold set-ups in 70's

film. I'm guessing that 70s film might feel prehistoric to modern audiences,

but you can explore them and see it for yourself. The film becomes a series of one-on-one encounters with Monsu and his potential victims, and each time he confronts them, we see that he's not such a skilled assassin. I wanted to hear you talk a little bit about conceiving the oven-mit glove encounter with the blaring music, because it's so striking and so funny, and I wanted to hear you explain how you came up with all of that. At first,

um, of, uh, certainly, uh, chungung to killin

a sound is a thing, that's about, Mansu's Tend Mansu,

uh, Mansu, that's, that's kind of that's kind of that's

not being not, but the gunchonging what the you've just because

just, uh, use but other other other other

can get not because so so that not

rather just their around and just just found

it and so Man Man is under on

on a think a person but the and

the and the kind of very very very very

so so the oven and the Christmas When I used

when I'd to give you so Santa Claus clothes used when used

that's that's that's kind of and the gun and their

hand not not so very very very very

very so so the So, so many things, that's things, like the

vinylap with a gonged, and they're a single and their own their hand to

that's a lot of that's kind of making it, and make make it and it

is very really funny. Even that Santa Cross on wearing

and took sop family family in where in a

time in a in kind of in the oven mitten

moment came from Manzu's attempt to use it as a silencer to kill off the sound of the gunshot and because he's not a professional assassin he doesn't have the professional tools to do that of course he got the gun from his father but he doesn't have anything else so I think that was the result of him

looking around his house seeing what he has and discovering this idea so even though it might look foolish or funny to the audience we can tell that Manso has actually put in a lot of thought under the circumstances that he's in So he has the oven mint, and below the oven mitt, he also has this glove from a Santa Claus costume that he probably bought to entertain his kids. And below, beneath that, his hand is wrapped up in a plastic wrap.

And he did that because he was scared that when he's too terrified or nervous in the moment, his hands might get too sweaty. So he wanted to make sure that he's not going to let go of the gun and that he'll be able to properly pull the trigger. So that's how much of a desperate preparation went into this moment for Mansu. So even though Mansu is very desperate and well prepared for himself, it might come off as very funny to the audience when they're watching it from afar. And actually, if you watch the movie again, you might be able to find a family picture of Mansu dressed up as a Santa Claus. As someone who's been making films for more than 30 years, how much do you relate to the men in this story? who have turned their life over to a vocation that doesn't always love them back. Right, that's the one-jerked-socerer when I read when I was a person and yet,

Manso's the main person to, Manso's, the very reason why I was able to emphasize was the main character of the novel when I was reading it, despite the fact that he works in a completely different industry. And Sijor, the victim, one of the victim of whom, is a form of art. And Siju, one of the victims in the film, actually says this line about how he considers making paper as a form of art. This job is just a money-storied-suaderned

it's not, that's my life that's a lot, Bumwee a way of it throughso that this is not anything

that's anything that's that's kind of overso that's just that that's

that's that's I think is many film makers of a

problem isn't just to make a living they consider this job as life itself

and Bommo also says this in a dialogue about how he's

nothing without this job so it's not just simple pride for what they do

or they consider the job to equate to the sense of self itself

and I think a lot of filmmakers will be able to relate to this

so So, Manso's a that's a that's a this

the crime of the kind of a dog kind of kind of

a family is that and harmono and that

that's that that think that is a sort

that that that is that is that think

So how Bansu's criminal acts and his moral downfalls, he justifies all of this as acts for his family, that he has no other choice. And I could see how this would come off as ingenuine. Because that person, um, um, that person is the family, uh, make-s-s-lil-sallel-sallel-s to save other other that's a

other can't get in the job in the job to

work and got got and that got that

is not that that just that just that

just that is a thing in what I'm trying

to say through that is Manz is a man

who would have murdered for this job, even if he had other options or other jobs that were able to feed his family. The truth is, perhaps he was really chasing for that sense of achievement that he felt from his paper-making job. Even if he had to her child's not could, this sort of is it's not it, this sort of thing, that's thinking, so, you can even imagine if he had no wife and no kids, I could still see him as a man who would have done the exact same things.

The most chilling image to me is the final sequence with the automated logging machinery. The movie seems to have a strong point of view about AI. And I'm curious to hear your perspective on it, and not just in terms of it taking over per se, but whether it could be helpful or harmful in what specific ways in the future for filmmakers. First, first of, my immediate emotional response to that would be fear. And it's not really A.I. How do you

need to be able to be able to be able to that's very because what's

how it's how to how it's mech how much to make it be changed it's

been changed it's not just fear towards how AI is going to dominate our lives

the speed of its technological development is so fast that I think the fear stems from this thought of how it might change our lives even before we realize that it's changed it. This novel, of, obviously, back when the novel was first written, there was no such So, A.A. And obviously, back when the novel

was first written, there was no such concept back then. So any scenes involving AI was something that I added in in the adaptation process. Younger for sure the idea of the technology of development. But I think for this film, it was certainly helpful to have that AI technology development.

Because I added a one-jave-of-of-the-old so Ina and father and man-su's what thing is knowing-ch-ce-ce-ce-ce-ce-en that's that sort of made a new element that was different from the original novel,

which was that the wife and the son find out about what the main character has been doing. Mansu got to his family for this thing is And so it's going to be a lot of the life that's, this is, this, this,

this is, this is, manse's of the endangue's, manse's of the powered and it was, that's, it's, it's, these, these, guys'esteges to be so, because Mansu itself

is a backsteading and this this is unguedated result. Because Manso says he's

doing everything for his family but is precisely what he does for his family that affects his soul it destroys his soul and when that is

known by his family Manso becomes an outcast of the family and the family is shattered so this itself just just

a great paradox So all of this becomes a large paradox. He did it for his family, but it's precisely those acts that destroyed it. That's like AI is much. A.I. It's much. Mansu is, mansu is, each, one each, each to do the thing is really

a decision and hard to get and so it's

really really one and it's so so this

this chair and and and more more more

more more more can get there can get

there and it's just like that it's very

similar to Manz's association with the AI technology

as well So the film portrays Mansu's journey of how he destroys his human competitors, and this was a very difficult process for him. It took a lot of big determination, and it was a very arduous journey that he had to survive through in order to make it through that journey and find the job that he's desperately wanted for himself. But at the end of that road, he realizes that there's a scarier competitor that he can never win. So, so, they're like,

this company, a new company, a new job to come up to go so,

and they're a lot of the machine, the solar system with a darking system,

so he's now, now I'm going to I'm going to say, the word one

and he confidently enters this factory, and in this dark factory where the

machines are working on their own, he turns on the lights as if to make this statement that the humans will be controlling the factory now. But shortly after his joyful cry, he is encapsulated by the strange feeling. But shortly after his joyful cry, he is encapsulated by the strange feeling. And you can get a great form done

roll, with a mongdunguil one thing to look that the middoll kind of shot

is you can tell that in the moment where he taps on that large paper roll

with his stick to sense the density of the paper roll it. It's the

menep moment of one one is now this now

that to get back and yet but that the old old old got to

not even that stick was back back it's we've once we've

once we've had been and that that's that stuff

that you remember in the previous interview scene the interview

is actually told Manso that that age of using this manual

method is over and at the time Manso emphatically agreed but he

still couldn't let go of that old habit. And that's why he brought that stick. He probably brought it from his home. There's actually a moment where we see the stick in the greenhouse as well. So he took in the effort to bring that from his home and to necessarily use it in a factory that doesn't need it anymore.

But at the same time, Mansoh both of the way up in front of course is the same thing. And at the same time, we witness how this robot that's working above his head is doing the same job that he's doing. And Mansu's That's That's So,

Mansu's Unbant- And then Unband chalangels with To get here to go and

over and going to kind of kind of kind of kind of very pitiful

as he tries to avoid these vehicles that are transporting the paper rolls

And And so, and Monsu's the movie in the last shot to see from the far from

from each one each one each quesing once importantly in the very last shot

of the film we witnessed how the lights are beginning to go off one by one behind

Mansoe soy the soding system to do that's gotonged

system being activated I say then AI is the

fire- thing mansu mansu's message is you know no no

is you need need sending a message to Mansu

that we don't need you anymore and the end the

moment and it's that that that scene we

we're actually we take to take a good

stoke footage I was found out and that's used that's just that

just didn't just that they're those that were running and the

car and there were there were in the VFX to do

all to do so just so it's like sort of

made and the very next scene is when we see the

trees getting cut down we We almost consider shooting that ourselves, but we found very good stock footage. So we used that instead. But for the stock footage, there was originally a video of a seat in that heavy equipment and a driver driving that equipment.

But we use VFX to erase any traces of humans, almost as if robots are moving on their own. That scene is what you're thinking about. in the movie's in the Mansu's speech are the hago

is in the English is an phrase but in the mogazir doggies

or rather than about it and hecko and English and

English and English and language that that you're that

that's that is that is the scene is

supposed to remind us of is a moment earlier in the film when Manzo is practicing the speech that he wants to tell the American executives. And then he talks about how in America, getting fired is like getting axed. But in Korea, we say off with your heads when we're getting fired. And then he combines those two

phrases and says, getting fired is like using an axe to cut off somebody's head. And this moment is actually a visualization of that speech. Director Park, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers, what is the last great thing they have seen? Have you seen any films recently that you really responded to. I still not until not yet Nabokov's

social all read it's fiel fire that's it's very very

very humorous and humorous that that's great great I haven't

finished it yet but yet but I'm currently reading called Pale Fire. It's very fanciful, but complex and humorous. It's really a great piece of literary work.

Thank you very much. Congrats on the film. Thank you very much. Thank you, Park Chan, Wook. Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. Remember, 4.30 p.m. Sunday night, P.T. 730 E.T. Amanda is going live on Instagram. Maybe with Yossi to talk about the Golden Globes, I'll be there.

At the Big Pick Pod. Yes. And if you want to, what do people want to know? What kind of candy did I buy to eat on Sunday night? We're going to eat actual food. Yeah. Why did we go to New York maybe? Oh, that'll be exciting.

Anything else? We could do some red carpet cues. It depends on whether we have, are they doing the red carpet? I mean, like coverage, I assume they will be. Who are they? CBS News? Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

That's right. Yeah. I forgot that it's on the red carpet. God, I don't want to deal with that. I forgot that it's on CBS. That's so weird. Because it was NBC for so long. It was. Yeah.

Yeah. We didn't even talk about Nikki Glazer. One of my goats. She was very good last year. She was funny last year. Yeah. So she'll be good again. We'll also talk about the results of the show immediately after the show and that episode will get posted and you'll listen to it and you'll love it.

I promise. See you then. Thank you.