The Big Picture - Four Ways of Looking at an Action Movie: ‘The Accountant 2,’ ‘Havoc,’ ‘A Working Man,’ and ‘The Amateur’

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

Sean and Amanda are joined by Chris Ryan to recap their trip to the mobile Criterion Closet before celebrating the big box-office weekend performances of ‘Sinners’ and ‘Star Wars: Episode III �� Revenge of the Sith’ and explain why movies are so back (1:09). Then, they cover some recently released mediocre action films: ‘The Accountant 2’ (14:30), ‘Havoc’ (25:39), ‘A Working Man’ (36:33), and ‘The Amateur’ (44:41), and have a big-picture conversation on what these four films mean for the state of action movies (53:32). Finally, they discuss a handful of movie news headlines and share their excitement and concern for some upcoming releases (1:00:35). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Chris Ryan Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Conditions apply to all benefits. Visit pcfinancial.ca for details. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbin. And this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about action. CR Chris Ryan is here. You too. Whoa, a midnight boy? Yeah. Wow. So we're Whoa, a midnight boy? Yeah. Wow.

So we're going to talk about action movies today. Guns? You're pro-gun? Let's just start fresh. Yeah, good. You know, it's been a minute since we've all seen each other. Do we have to start with the second amendment? Okay, that's a dodge for CR.

CR and I actually spent yesterday together. I know, I saw. I saw it on the Instagram. It was very cute. So I wanted you to take me through the wardrobe process for you. The wardrobe process? Yeah.

I will, because the Paddington sweater is new. Oh yeah. And I was wondering when you required it. Is it Paddington for Gap? No, it's Rowing Blazers. Oh right, okay yeah. I gotta be honest, a huge supporter of Paddington, but they were getting around with the clubs

Well for Paddington and Peru. Well, Paddington obviously very important to me and here's I'll tell you I told Chris Not as important as it is in my household. Wow. Yeah. I don't really know why we'd be competing on who cares about Paddington more It seems antithetical to Paddington's ideology. I agree. It's competing over Paddington. My intention was I wanted to talk to people on the street waiting in line for the Criterion mobile closet. CR joined me yesterday at Viddi. It's where the Criterion mobile closet was.

I was wearing a Paddington sweater because I thought I would seem more warm and approachable if I had Paddington on my chest. And it's not because Criterion is announcing a Paddington edition. Not to my knowledge. I can't either confirm or deny. I would also accept Paddington too. That would be an interesting I can't either confirm or deny. I would also accept a Paddington too.

That would be an interesting step, you know. We did talk about the Red Balloon a little bit, which has a criterion addition. There is some Paddington energy in the Red Balloon, so it wouldn't be so out of practice. Did you have fun yesterday? I had a great time. We had a good time.

I was so impressed by people's taste. Young people who were just like incredible. Were you just like standing outside the closet? I was actually more of an e- Just being like, show me. Were you doing exit polling? He was doing it. I was executive producing.

Yes. I was like that person. That literally is what you were doing. You were IDing potential folks to talk to. We talked to a lot of really nice, really cool people. All just waiting for physical media. Waiting. On Saturday, they were waiting in the rain.

We weren't there on Saturday. Can I, was the exit polling like sanctioned? Or were you just, yeah. We weren't there on Saturday. Was the exit polling sanctioned? Or were you just... We had Criterion's blessing to be talking to people. We asked. It was actually pre-polling, which I think is illegal. It wasn't like Jesse Waters running up to someone and being like, why don't you like movies enough?

You didn't give them any water though, Larry David style. You didn't want to be sent to prison for several weeks. We had a lot of fun. We made a couple of videos. They'll be on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel later this week. Jack Sanders got to go in the Criterion Mobile Closet. He was... he seemed very, very happy. It was fun. Also fun. Movies. We're doing so well. We're doing so well. Didn't you say we're so back?

We haven't left. Okay. We haven't left. But no, how... It's been weeks. So, there are two approaches that we could take here. And one is just that like, this is so great. And also, two is to be like you, Sean Fantasy, were crying in that chair like two weeks ago.

What do you mean? And movies are, they're nowhere and TV is so important and I love Severance and whatever. And here we are. Until mean, movies stopped until Minecraft came along and changed everything. And now TV all the way in the back row. I can't live like this. I just can't live like this.

Well, you have to. Frankly, we're doing great. Sinner's down 5% week over week. I can't fucking believe it. 5%. It's amazing. So the film is now made well over $100 million. We were talking six days ago about the trades, talking about how this film may or may not be profitable, which even at the time seemed absurd.

But now we've seen this movie is now in this sort of phenomenological era. It is like Get Out, it's like Inception, it's like Gravity. It's a sensation. It's a huge sensation, it's a movie that people have built a huge relationship to. Obviously, a lot of reasons for that. The premium large format movies where tickets cost more money. So if you go to see it in IMAX or Dolby, 70 millimeter, it costs more money to see those movies.

So you're going to generate more box office obviously. But word of mouth is just insane. Word of mouth. It's just insane. It's I've had like multiple conversations with people who don't necessarily work within the film industry or media or not terminally online about movie culture. And they're just like, so Sinner's like,

really, I should go see it? I was like, please go see it. Not just for the benefit of the industry, but you'll love it. It's just the best way to see it. And it's undefeated. I have not had a single person come back and be like, eh, that was a waste of 10 bucks.

It's just, there's also, it's a scene, it's a thing, you know, in a real way that we've had from time to time. And I was thinking about this as you were freaking out a few months ago, but also this morning of like, it's not that movies are back, and it's not that like all movies are great, but like movies are kind of cool. Again, like there's something happening, and even your criterion aspect of it.

I don't know whether it's just fan culture has moved from, you know, specific genres or franchises to just formats, and it's just like, I guess now we're into movies. And this doesn't obviously apply to everything, but there is an energy around The big name directors like the big name events like people are waiting in line People are like buying the merch people are listening to this soundtrack. Yeah Yeah, I came in the studio last Thursday. Jack was bumping the soundtrack. Yeah here. I think that's all true

I think one of the reasons why this has happened which we thought thought would be a negative, but is in an odd way turning into a positive, is during COVID theaters were closed. People got out of the habit of going to see movies. People got really interested in streaming, but they also watched a lot of movies during COVID and they got more interested in movies and movie history. We've heard from hundreds of listeners over the years that they're so more into movies now than they were pre pre 2020 and Then there's also this desire to be back with people having an experience and so it's not always gonna happen We're gonna see a ton of movies this summer that bomb or underperform. It's not foolproof, but

When you get something that is familiar, but new like this You can get an energy going and it feels like you know, the snowball is really rolling down the hill now. So it's really exciting. And the cooler thing is great. It's like he is now in the Nolan Tarantino, you know, Jordan Peele, Greta. Like there's a handful of people who you could sell the movie on their name as directed by.

Yeah. Which is so cool. I mean, that's obviously for me personally, like probably my favorite thing in movies when you have somebody with a really strong vision and then you're kind of eventizing around that. But it's exciting for him and it's good for the theaters and it's, in theory, good for the kinds of movies

that get made. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure we'll learn all the wrong lessons from this. And by we, I mean studios and the same people who were bitching anonymously to the trades about how not you know, not understanding the point of sinners was gonna then also ruin studios forever.

And I'm sure that people will look at this and try to corporatize it. And there is something about this that, the magic of it is a little bit like, oh, wow, like another one-off, like an original thing that this doesn't happen that often, so I want to be a part of it. That is hard to manufacture,

but it kind of keeps happening. So that's exciting. There's an aspect of Barbenheimer that was very similar to this. Yeah, yeah. You know, we can go back to a time when there were more people who were able to do this. Like, this might seem strange now

because of where they stand in the firmament of Hollywood, but like, Adam McKay and Judd Apatow had this kind of power. Where like, if you put their name on a movie... From the guys who made Superbad. Yeah, it was like, oh, I want to know what that is. And I think we just need to keep leaning into that stuff, leaning into empowering people to make those kinds of movies. I don't know, any takeaways from you beyond that?

I just want everybody to keep the same energy for Jurassic World Rebirth. Thank you. You know, another cultural event. Yep. Another movie about characters we don't often see. Yeah, representation matters for dinosaurs. Absolutely. What do you think, is there anything else coming this year

that you guys think could have a similar kind of energy? Or is this gonna be a rare, an increasingly rare phenomenon where we all kind of energy? Or is this going to be an increasingly rare phenomenon where we all kind of agree that... I'm nervous to say it out loud. I feel like I should whisper, and it's different. Whisper it. Whisper one battle after another. You know?

And that's different because obviously... This set a crazy high bar. Well, sure. A crazy high bar, this movie. But... Also, this movie just straight up does not have black audiences. And black audiences are like, I'm going to see this movie. But. Also, this movie just straight up does not have black audiences. And black audiences are like, I'm going to see this movie three times.

And I don't care. And I'll pay $75 a ticket to go see it. Like, One Battle After Another needs a lot of me. You know, a lot of dudes just like me. Let me tell you, there are a lot of you out in the world. Yeah. We got to get activated, you know? I think you are.

I'm going, but I'm going as a Tiana Taylor fan to One Battle After Another. That is the intersectionality that we're looking for here in movie fandom. You gotta get activated, you know? I think you are! I'm going, but I'm going as a Tiana Taylor fan. To what battle after another. That is the intersectionality that we're looking for here in movie fandom. Um, I think there could be. Obviously, it's also the same studio. It's the same conceit of like, of a filmmaker with a strong vision.

It's Leo. It is, like, we haven't seen the movie. We've only seen some trailers and are like doing some deep reading, but like seems like it has something to say, but also just a lot of action and, you know, and sensational filmmaking. So, and, you know, sensational stuff to watch. So, I don't know. It just, I'm only going on a feeling.

Yeah. I think there's a couple of franchise movies. And I could be wrong. There's a couple of franchise movies that could have a somewhat similar energy. Like, I do think that Mission Impossible and 28 Years Later, a certain kind of movie fan, is very stoked for those movies. Whether it's going to have this... I mean, there's very few films that have dropped that lower percentage in the last 15 years

of the movies. It's very, very unusual. Oh, I don't think this is going to happen again. Yeah. So, I don't know if we'll get back to something that exciting. The other thing that happened at the box office, which is quite astonishing is that Revenge of the Sith, episode three in the Star Wars saga, was re-released to celebrate its 20th anniversary in theaters and made $25 million.

Now, there's a lot of reasons I think for this. I think for Gen Z and young millennials, Revenge of the Sith is a big movie. And there's a lot of like, this is my youth on screen. I want to celebrate it. And I totally understand that. There are some things I really like about Revenge of the Sith. It's my favorite of the prequels. I still don't think it's a great movie, but there's something like, like it's kind of like going to your high school reunion, going to see this movie, you know, and like kind of seeing who you are in the face of a thing that you loved

when you were 11. And then there's also that communal thing that we're talking about, where people just want to get together and have fun and have a party and they want to watch Count Dooku get his arms cut off, you know? Spoiler. They want to watch General Grievous get cut down to size. I think the point you made about the generational thing is really important. I first noticed this when we got a chance to go to Prince Charles Cinema in London and

we saw people lined up around the block for Interstellar, which is apparently like basically a weekly event there. And I was like, oh, it turns out that people like find their own classics and find their own like touchstone films. And Interstellar is to these people what 2001 probably was to my parents' generation or what have you. You know, or Star Wars was to ours. So Revenge of the Sith is a new hope

to people who are in their 20s or in their early 30s. And it makes a lot of sense. It's really interesting. I mean, this is also a movie that is available on Disney Plus in perpetuity. It's probably one of the most purchased DVD Blu-rays of all time. Like everyone has access to this movie. They don't have to pay 25 bucks to go to a movie theater,

but they did. I find that so fascinating. Right on the heels of the Ted Sarandos comments, where he said that we serve the consumer and the consumer's not interested in going to the movies. Now, obviously there's a lot of truth to the utter dominance of Netflix and what they've been able to create for viewers.

But to frame it against people not wanting to go to the movies is just not true. You just need to give people things that they want. Is it ideal? Like, are you going to be able to recreate Revenge of the Sith every other weekend? No, you're not. But it shows you something about what people do want. So how do you figure out if you're a theater owner, if you're a studio? Hopefully it's not just giving Sean Levy the keys to Star Wars,

which I don't think we ever discussed on this podcast. No. Ryan Gosling. Oh, and Ryan Gosling, yeah. But then, who said no? Oh, uh... Enora. Yeah. Mikey Maddison. Yes, thank you. Yeah, she reported... I just couldn't remember her name.

She reportedly declined. Imagine if the character Enora, though, were sent to Tatooine. That would really be some... Get the fuck away from me with your star fighter. That's good. Nice work. Any other takeaways from Star Wars being back in theaters? I saw this in theaters originally.

Did you? Did you like it? I saw it with my dad over Christmas break, I wanna say. Don't remember anything about it. What did you think of Natalie Portman's performance in the movie? Like a very large, is that a crown? More sort of a headpiece.

Yeah, she's got like, is she's a senator? A kind of like, breeding up on the sides and stuff. What is her government designation? She's not a senator, she's a princess, right? She's a princess, but she becomes a senator, I think. Yeah, please, you know what? Don't personalize women in Star Wars, right? She's a princess, but she becomes a senator. I think. Yeah. You know what? Don't personalize women in Star Wars. Okay.

Sorry. Jar Jar Binks also is a senator to be. Also Minecraft, just very quietly trucking along to a billion dollars. Basically made $800 million in three weeks. That's insane for a Minecraft movie, which I was considering not doing an episode on like three weeks ago. Right. So. And then you had an episode on like three weeks ago. Right. And then you had an epiphany at the movies.

Well, something's happening. And you can see a little bit of a trickle down effect of the health because the fourth movie had a really decent opening, right? Like the fourth or fifth movies are all doing like 20, 25, one of which we're gonna talk about. Let's talk about it. So we've had four action movies released

in the last couple of weeks. The biggest, I suppose, of the four is The Accountant 2, which opened on Friday. Still counting. I wish that was the tagline. There's not a lot of counting. There's not a lot of a counting in this movie, actually, now that I think about it.

The Accountant was a 2016 sort of surprise hit from Gavin O'Connor and Ben Affleck as the star, an autistic number cruncher for the mafia who's also a trained assassin and looks like Ben Affleck. Very strange. In Hocus. Is he in Hocus in the first film? He's not in the first one. That was a great update that they made to bring the accountant into 2025 for some truly cringe-worthy Hocus.

You couldn't wait to get into the style breakdown of The Accountant 2. It really all that you need to know about what Ben Affleck... It was great costume make. Uh, the original film, I think, it did very well at the box office and then I think took on a real dad action movie. Yeah.

Hall of Fame quality where it's on cable all the time, you can stream it on Amazon. People love this movie. I liked it just fine when it came out. I don't know if I had a wild enthusiasm. Did either of you really care about it? I didn't particularly care for the first one that much. But this is just a B movie to me. It's really funny that this was something Affleck was like, I need to take artist equity and throw it behind the accountant franchise. And he did. His new company with Matt Damon

take artist equity and throw it behind the accountant franchise. And he did his new company with Matt Damon, um, co-produced this movie along with Amazon MGM and it stars John Bernthal. Yeah, boy. Uh, Cynthia Di Robinson, JK Simmons, Daniela Pineda. The plot is when an old acquaintance is murdered, leaving behind a cryptic message to quote, find the accountant. Christian Wolf is compelled to solve the case.

Realizing more extreme measures are necessary, Wolf recruits his estranged and highly lethal brother Brax to help. In partnership with the US Treasury Deputy Director, Mary Beth Medina, they uncover a deadly conspiracy becoming targets of a ruthless network of killers who will stop at nothing to keep their secrets buried. That's a description of the plot. Amanda and I saw this movie together. We had a very nice time,

but we spent the 30 minutes after the movie was over trying to figure out what was going on in this movie. Which is to say that despite having fun, I found this to be one of the most convoluted mainstream movies released in some time. Were you confused at all? Maybe not confused. That's not even the word. Because I understood what happened. But trying to backtrack why the things had happened and how they got the plot to where it went, I found it very odd.

I broadly understood what was going on. I think the things that I found the most confusing were the efforts to tie it to forensic accounting There weren't very many but there was still like it was like Deputy Director Mary Beth Medina certainly mentions her mentor played by JK Simmons a lot and also their work and the kind of work they do in the ethics of their investigations versus Brax and Chris's more devil may care style of investigation this so the accounting part was actually like I was like versus Brax and Chris's more devil may care style of investigation. So the accounting part was actually like, I was like, iffy on. I ultimately understood that this was a human trafficking fever dream

that was about these guys rescuing these kids in Juarez, Mexico. But the nutty part about it is it's basically a buddy comedy for 80% of the movie that then turns into saving human trafficking victims. Well, part of the problem is that it's a buddy comedy for like 40%. And then there is 20% sprinkled around like the other 18 characters that constitute the human trafficking and like,

underworld aspects of the plot. And it's hard to keep track of all of those other people. And then you don't get as much of Ben Affleck and Jon Bernthal sitting on top of an airstream, you know, bro-ing out, which was charming. Yeah. I... If you told me that I would really have a good time in a movie that was just Rain Man meets Commando,

I would probably not believe you but I honestly really enjoyed myself watching this. I thought it was pretty fun Yeah, I think the movie looks really good. It looks unusually good for a movie like this You hear like Amazon MGM and you're like, okay, this is gonna be like red notice streaming action movie It's all we'll get to a streaming action movie that doesn't look like all streaming action movies soon But movies shot by Seamus McGarvey was incredibly talented DP shot the last movie So they shot it in Los Angeles. They got the rebate so they were able to shoot all location And I think you can really feel it. I think I think it matters. Yeah, it does I mean, this is like Lynn Ramsey cinematographer, you know what I mean? Like he's a really really good cinematographer So I think it...

It gets its head above water by just being one Ben Affleck's in the middle of the movie. He's just a great movie star, he's always entertaining. Bernthal pitched perfectly. This is like exactly what he's good at, which is like snide asshole with a gun who's also insecure. He is the master of that kind of character and he's really, really funny as brass in this movie.

And they give him several, like, very good scenes, including... His intro is phenomenal. In the hotel room. Yeah, I mean, he just, he longs to be a pet owner, you know? And that's something that is carried throughout the film. And then, also, when he gets the call from his brother, is a really, really delightful and funny scene by him. Do we even see his, oh yeah we do,

because he's in Germany doing a job. After he's killed seven people and he's eating ice cream. Yeah, that's a nice review on that sequence. I found the framing of the Daniela Pineda story just bizarre. Oh, the like woman, the migrant woman who then has a car accident and becomes a savant and a, like, champion killer. Yes. Yeah.

But then also, and you're supposed to understand all this, this hinges on an old photograph. Yeah. That as Sean spent, like, great lengths, like, yelling in the middle of the Americana at, like, on a Wednesday night, on tax day, by the way, we went to a tax day screening. We did go to a tax day screening. And Sean is just like, but it just doesn't look like her! But she has the black dolphin tattoo. I understand.

OK, I understand. But he was just... I think, you know what, maybe I'm a moron. No, I think... I think for a conventional audience to be like, that's the same person, is a little bit of a stretch. Yeah.

Daniela Pineda is incredibly striking. And that does not look like her in the photograph. It may be her in makeup. It may be her, you know, maybe digitally altered. I'm sure all of that is true. But the efforts to be like that woman is that woman. And also because of her car accident and like whatever it was done to her frontal lobe, she is now snake eyes from G.I. Joe.

And a chess master. What? Right. And a chess master. Yeah. Um, and a chess master. Yeah. That, that was like a borderline supernatural in a commando movie, which I found very strange. Yeah. I just remembered all the kids in the, in the special.

Harbor, uh, what's it called? What's the neurodivergent hacker army? Oh, I forgot about that. No, because the only, the only reason I thought about it... That is nuts. No, I know. It was because that, like, the whole sequence in which, like, what happens to Danielle Pineda's character is explained to you is from, like, the neurosurgeon who accepts, like, some sort of grant from this, like, from the, you know, the world-renowned Harbor Neuroscience,

which is located in Hanover, New Hampshire, which is also where Dartmouth College is. I was like, hey! Was not told I'm in Hanover. Did you not attend that center? Yeah, you know what, that's not where. And so, but anyway, Christian Wolff, Ben Affleck's character, The Accountant,

is now running his rogue accounting, and also all of his ops with the help of a group of children who are studying at the neuroscience school. And they're like the world's greatest hackers. You, Sean, went to the bathroom during the hacking scene. And I just like the whole time- Oh, I was watching on the side. I was standing.

I didn't come back from my seat. Oh, you were watching on the side. I was standing, I didn't come back from my seat. Oh, you were? Oh, okay, all right. I was like, I can't believe he's in the bathroom as these children are hacking into this lady's camera in order to. And like ringing her doorbell so that she goes away from the email.

I thought that was a great moment. Yeah, I mean, that was insane and funny. It's a very pulpy, silly kind of a story and it can withstand this level of absurdity in the plotting. But I was like, this is a lot to ask for the sequel to a movie that came out nine years ago that most people watch on TNT. A friend of mine had a very funny observation

that had not occurred to me while watching Accountant 2, which is that this is the original Good Will Hunting script. Oh, yeah. Where Good Will Hunting gets drafted by the NSA and CIA to become like a super spy. Yeah. And this is the script that William Goldman was like, you guys should lose all this shit

and just make it like a human drama. But it's like Affleck was probably like, that's a good fucking movie. That's amazing. That is amazing. I had, that's a great shout out. Shout out to my friend. I hadn't even thought about that. Yeah.

Speaking of, did you know Ben was in the Criterion Closet this morning? No, this very morning. Closet this morning. Oh, wow. He spoke beautifully about many films. Oh, among them? Rules of the Game by Renoir.

Beautiful. Malcolm X by Spike Lee. He spoke at length about his commentary work on the Armageddon DVD, The Criterion. He's really out there. Yeah, he's the best. Selling that. You don't need to tell me that. He is a hardcore cinephile and we respect it.

I would like soft recommend this movie. It's fun. It's stupid. It was really stupid, but we had a good time. To use a Bill Simmons, or actually Bill Simmons' dad thing, it's a classic five o'clocker. Yes.

Yeah. Just a great, like, why don't you go see Counting Two and then grab a burger? It's a really good. I've been thinking a lot about like kind of how to elevate the the experience of being in movie theaters, in part, I think, because I'm in movie theaters so often. And I have a complicated relationship to alcohol these days.

Sometimes I'm really in on it. Sometimes I'm really out on it. But this is a great beer movie. Like this is a movie to enjoy with. Unless it makes you have to pee and then you can't see the neurodivergent army. Really good. Packers. Yeah. Maybe I'll just get a pee bag attached to me at all times. Can I ask two more things? One, did you guys notice that Bernthal actually goes, God damn! At one point, sorry.

I saw you drinking and I was like, shit. He actually says it. He says the thing. That was even a soft God damn to you. You didn't go full register there. And also, why does the guy who works out of, like, the Rosita human trafficking hub or wherever that dude Burke is, right? The bad guy. The bald bad guy who gets killed. Oh, the fish guy. We totally forgot about the fish guy. Why is he a sashimi dealer and also only has one?

Like he's like what is that his son or they but he's like yeah, you solo go to Juarez Yeah, and it's like he runs a human trafficking organization from Boston from where is he? No, he's in California Like San Pedro or something. Yeah Okay, well this is the first of two films we'll discuss that features human trafficking heavily and it's plotting, but we'll get there in a minute. Let's talk about Havoc next. Did you get to Havoc? I did. Shout out to you.

You had a weekend out of town with your family and you sat down to experience the cinema of Gareth Evans. I did. Gareth Evans, of course, the director of the Raid films. I think he's the creator, certainly one of the filmmakers behind Gangs of London, a show that Chris loves and one of the foremost action filmmakers of the 21st century. This movie has been in the works for a very long time.

I think I have drafted it as an anticipation auction three times. At least twice, at least twice. As far back as 2022, maybe even 2021. This is Tom Hardy's collaboration with Gareth Evans after Gangs of London. At least twice. At least twice. As far back as 2022. Yeah. Maybe even 2021. This is Tom Hardy's collaboration with Gareth Evans after Gangs of London. It's a straight up crime movie. It's a cops and villains movie. It's a political corruption movie.

And it's ultimately just an excuse for Gareth Evans to go ham like three or four times in the movie. I feel like we have to start with Chris to get his take. Yeah, of course. Because this is an important film for him. Yeah, well, this starts out 45 minutes of which is essentially like chat GPT writing a Gangs of London episode. And it basically takes place in Sin City.

Like, there's no sense of... Is it not Chicago? I think it is. I was reading it as Chicago. I mean, Working Man is Chicago. And... Yeah. Shot there? No. I have, Working Man is Chicago. And... Yeah. Shot there? No.

I have no idea. Probably shot in Romania or something. I don't really have a lot to say about the opening half of this film, other than if I die because someone throws a washing machine full of cocaine through my body, you guys can laugh about it. I think that that would be an extraordinary way to go out, and that's the opening sequence of this film. But that sequence is a perfect metaphor

for what it's like to watch a Gareth Evans action sequence. It feels like you're inside of a washing machine full of cocaine. That's a great idea. Yeah. It's pretty boring until you get to the nightclub about an hour in, and Gestaffelstein starts playing. And I left my body and joined my ancestors. you get to the nightclub about an hour in, and Gestafelstein starts playing, and I left my body and joined my ancestors.

And we looked down on myself and we said, no one's ever had it better than this kid right now. I had my fucking big headphones on in the dark in my house, and I watched the nightclub scene literally three times back to back. I just kept rewinding it. Which is like a full length movie, by the way, because that scene is very extended. They don't leave anything out.

There's all kinds of like butchered knives going on there. Machetes, yeah. Machetes, yeah. That scene is crack. It is so good. It is so entertaining. I thought this movie was like legitimately subpar,

except for 28 minutes. It is so good. It is so entertaining. I thought this movie was legitimately subpar, except for 28 minutes. 28 minutes of it, I was like... ecstatic. So thrilled. And I think that's justification. For its existence. The nightclub scene is the best one. What a summer for Guseflstein. The electronic music artist whose music was also featured in that A24 Thunderbolts trailer.

And now here, not one, not two, not three, but four songs during the duration of that nightclub sequence in this movie. Bad DJ, he's just playing Deceitful Steve Vicks. Yeah, but he's distracted. He might be distracted. Like, I might just, you know, the track listing might just keep going. Holy shit, did that guy just get hit by the machete? Are you sure that he's actually, like, at one point?

That's one of the ideas I like in the sequences, that for the most part, the people on the floor of the club have no idea that this all-out brawl is happening. Until that guy gets thrown off the balcony and breaks in half. Amanda, any thoughts about this movie that have not been shared by Chris? No, I'm even watching this scene, I was like, okay, so this is a Chris Ryan movie, you know, which I knew, Tom Hardy action film on Netflix.

I was like, okay, I'm watching this with my Chris goggles on. And then that was confirmed and I was happy for you. A couple other highlights I thought you might enjoy. Forrest Whitaker just doing Eric Adams. Is that what that was? I think so, but sure. Does Eric Adams have like a flunky, loser-y son? I'm pretty sure he does, allegedly.

And then also, like, I mean, it just, I felt like his whole delivery was very Eric Adams coded. What do you think of Oliphant? Well, without, I understood what would be, his character's arc would be, within the first two minutes of the film. He's given it away pretty quick. Yeah, well, I mean, it's arc would be, within the first two minutes of the film. With his appearance.

He's given it away pretty quick. Yeah, well, I mean, it's not very subtle, anything that's going on in the first 30 minutes, as you guys mentioned. I'm always happy to see him. I continually think he's incredibly handsome. Yes, okay. So.

I thought maybe. Is he in his 50s? I was wondering how many of those stunts he did. Like Hardy is getting his ass kicked. Hardy's in it. No, Hardy is getting his ass kicked. Hardy's in it. No, I will say in the nightclub scene, you know, like... It's 56 years old, Olyphant. With what, an achievement, you know, of people just jamming stuff into each other

to... in a club for like 30 minutes. But I did notice, I was watching everything, but you know, at some point, like the limbs going places, kind of your eyes start to glaze over. And then like, his head just does peek around a corner in a way that's like, oh, you weren't there before. So, but that's okay. Yeah. The other big set piece in this movie is a fight in a house that resembles a little bit of a Gangs of London famous set piece where basically, first of all, I gotta say, I don't think I've ever seen a bad movie with triads involved. I had a note about this as well. And the two triad ladies in this movie are some bad chicks. I was pretty into them.

Yeah, they both get knocked out in pretty brutal fashion. Mother is, did you feel attracted to her? No, but I was definitely, like, emotionally engaged with her on a deep level. What was the other gal's name? Well, that was played by a UFC fighter, Michelle Watterson Gomez. Okay. And she and Tom Hardy have a fight that is so intense

the entire house falls down. And then, spoiler, he shoots her with a fucking wailing harpoon. She and Tom Hardy have a fight that is so intense the entire house falls down. Yeah, and then Spoiler he shoots her with a fucking wailing harpoon It's just a great idea Why does he have a fucking harpoon? I know he's fishing I guess they're like in a shack where you go fishing But who has a harpoon on like lake fishing? That's a fairly small harpoon. I laughed really hard at that scene.

The harpoon, did it go through her neck or through her head? And then she tries to like walk down it a little bit. It's like sliding down. We need more things like this in the movies. We need people to get harpooned on camera. This is great stuff. And then they just wild bunch it up at the end. It's great. Yeah, crazy big shootout.

This is a pretty fun movie. It's a time killer. I was wondering two things about this. One, I think we do have to have a Tom Hardy conversation. Ten years ago, I thought, not only one of the most exciting actors in Hollywood, many people thought he could be a future James Bond, but I thought he had a lot of variance in the kinds of voices and characters he was playing. Now he only plays one guy,

which is anonymous, metropolis, American angry dude. Like, in Venom. I know what your answer is going to be. Have you watched Mobland at all? I have not. My in-laws were really big on Mobland this weekend. Very enjoyable series, for one thing. Real, like, just like B kind of like crime show. He's delightful and it's the closest he's been to Inception Tom Hardy. Eames! He was charming you're saying.

He's charming and you know he's just trying to like keep all the warring factions from like annihilating each other. It's essentially like a very cartoonish Michael Clayton in the British underworld. And he's getting to play a guy in London. I think he should retire this era. The like hyper grizzled, muttering, barely enunciating, trying to be a cop from Nowhere Town USA. I think we got it. He's done it. I'm ready for I'm ready for his 50s. Chris will let him know. Please call him. Send a stork to Taboo Island. I think he's done with it too. First of all, this was filmed like in 2020 or whenever they

started filming this movie. He's talked about how he's like, I want to like kind of get back down to planet Earth a little bit. Number one on Netflix though. Seems like this movie is working. That's only just for my plays. This is the kind of thing that really works on Netflix. Like this is a defining genre of Netflix when you think about Carry On, Extraction, Triple Frontier, Rebel Ridge, The Old Guard, like the grim dark action movie

is sort of their brand alongside teen coming of age movies and hallmarkish rom coms slash holiday movies, right? Those are the movies that they're best known for at this point. Is there anything I'm forgetting? Well, awards plays that don't pay off. Yeah.

But this is, I think of all the categories you named, this is the one we're most at peace with. Yeah. Like if Netflix wants to keep making these types of movies with these budgets and these level of movie stars, like they have a competency at them. They don't look, they don't make us angry and they bring Chris a large amount of joy. So like this is okay. If this is what they want to do, okay. Yeah, I'm with you. Well said. Any closing thoughts on Havoc?

I just am curious why it took so long. Like what was the thing that they had to reshoot in here? I would imagine that the transition from the old film team leadership to the new one was a factor. Okay, got some notes. Could have been, but it seems like it's working for them. Gareth Evans, can we get him a better script? He wrote this, so obviously he trusts himself as a writer. I've never like, I'm never like, I could do this, you know, I never like think to myself I go just let me get a pass on this. Except when he fired that harpoon gun through the trial.

No, I just mean like I don't I don't have the hubris to think that I could do what he does at all, even as a writer, but I would love to have just taken like a quick run past some of the dialogue. Yeah. Editor Chris, get your notes on. Yeah, just have like this guy say this, you know? Or just get like an average crime novel to adapt, you know? And just take that and then you do the action sequences.

Yeah. I'm not trying to limit him. I wrote in the notes that David Kep is writing the new Jurassic Park movie, which I think is a reason to be excited for the new Jurassic Park movie. And I like, let's just get... Jurassic World Rebirth? Is that what you're talking about? Jurassic World Rebirth.

Yeah. New film coming July 2nd from Universal. Thank you. I think it'd be great if he got someone like a David Kep, just like a locked and loaded genre for hire movie maker so that then he could do his Gareth Evans shit around a movie like that. Would you have watched Gareth Evans' Black Bag? Same script, same actors.

But the nightclub scene... So it's like in the dinner scene just becomes like everyone smashing each other. Yeah, sure. Let's talk about A Working Man. Okay. Did you watch this one? Yeah, I watched every movie smashing each other, but yeah, sure. Let's talk about A Working Man. Okay. Did you watch this one? Yeah, I watched every movie on the document. This is a lot of men at work.

I did actually watch this one while doing prep for last week's big picture. So you lost some of the nuance might be. So I'm excited to have Chris Ryan, our political correspondent here to explain it to me. I had high hopes for this one. This is the new film from David Ayer, a director that Chris and I have a lot of time for.

He was most recently seen, uh, utilizing Jason Statham's unique talents in The Beekeeper. Another surprise success from 2024 that we all liked, that is a batshit crazy movie about the deep state paranoia, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden's kids, Donald Trump and bees. I was hoping that it would have some of the same manic energy. This is more of a classical Jason Statham kind of a movie.

It's based on a novel called Levin's Trade by Chuck Dixon. The screenplay is co-written by Eyre and Sylvester Stallone, which I think tells us maybe a little bit about the energy of the film. That is also about human traffickers. It's about a foreman on a construction site whose boss's daughter is abducted by human traffickers. The Russian mob.

The Russian mob. Or a faction of the Russian mob. And he's a former British special ops soldier who has moved to Chicago. As they do. And to work on construction sites. And be with his family, presumably. Yes, and we spend a lot of time with them.

We really learn about them in this film. But everyone else is his family, you know? And they keep bringing him foods and stuff, sure. Michael Pena, for example, his boss. I mean, the best films are about sound families. Let me ask you this. If Bill's kids were abducted, would you go on a one-man spree... to save them?

Because that's the plot of this movie. Yeah. Yes. That is truly the plot of this movie. Yes. I just want to point it out. It's kind of weird. It's like, could Jason Statham just let the FBI do their jobs? I know, but I was just imagining Chris just like out in that room getting the call and being like,

okay, what am I gonna do? We should make this movie. And imagine what the human traffickers would think when you rolled up, layered out, dripped out, and you were just like, you've never heard of me. You'll never see me again. I'm five-seven. What is your first move when you get that call?

Have my lawyers and agents look at the deal and see if we've got any notes. Have my team interrogate it a little bit. Find out whether I have IP rights to it. No, I think this is a goofball movie, man. I mean, there's part of it that is like played incredibly straight and soberly and is about like this guy who's grieving the suicide of his wife and is trying to reconnect with his kid and clearly sees this girl Jenny as like a surrogate and is doing all this stuff. And then there's also like a little bit of like Mad Max Fury Road going on underneath of it, where there's sub gangs

of the Russian mob who all dress like they're in Road Warrior and sell meth in Juliet. And then they all show up at a house and fight. Yeah, who are those guys? What's that? Is that a real scene? Is that a scene that we can be a part of? Speaking of ladies in these action movies that caught my eye, Artemis, the one with the face tat. What's up with her?

Wow. It sounds like you got really jazzed up this weekend. Yeah, you're discovering it. My wife's at a tent. Did you watch all four of these movies this weekend? More or less, yeah. Did you see the amateur too? I did the amateur a while ago.

Okay, yeah. Any thoughts? Like, what did you think of this? You were half paying attention. I was half paying attention. And once I realized like, okay, this is not The Beekeeper, there is not anything, like, bizarre and entertaining about what it's trying to sandwich in,

in terms of The Beekeeper's strange political valence, or just like Jeremy Irons or like Minnie Driver calling for one scene. You know, seeing him being like, I need my paycheck. like Jeremy Irons or like Minnie Driver calling for one scene. You know, seeing him being like, I need my paycheck. This is a basic, good guy, you know, good guy revenge type movie. I was back in my document. Yeah. It's like, it's a classic Statham vehicle. I mean, he's made a lot of movies like this over the last 15 years. He's one of the most reliable movie stars and he's, he is really the working man's Tom Cruise. I mean, he doesn't really make streaming movies. He makes movies for movie theaters

for a very specific audience. He basically makes one a year. Some of them are good. Some of them are bad. Some of them are so strange that they're really compelling. He obviously also has a part in big franchises like the Fast movies. Can we give the Meany Driver and Beekeeper Award

to David Harbour in A Working Man playing a blind ex-seal? So that was a real, I knew he was in this. But I, you know, I had phased out. And then I looked up and it was like a profile shot with like a giant beard and it took me a while to be like, wait a second, that's David Harbour. We have a date with David Harbour tonight. We sure do.

We sure do. Also, have you guys been following David Harbour's press tour? No. How's it going? Well, I don't know if you have kept up with his personal life. He was with Lily Allen, but they split up. Right, and now he may or may not be dating someone younger than Lily Allen, and then he's being asked about it. And...

How's he taking that? What do you... Like, how young are we talking here? I just... I mean, I, you know... Younger. Okay. But if you told me Lily Allen was 37, I wouldn't be stunned. Yeah, but I meant more like 20. So she's like 34.

20, right, okay. I was trying to be respectful. Lily Allen's not psyched about this. He's dating a 19-year-old. Is he and Bill Belichick are sharing a girlfriend? And Lily Allen, who has a podcast, is not excited about it. Oh, she's speaking on it publicly? She's making, she's speaking on it publicly?

She's making, she's taking like little subs at him. I can't believe you're not... You guys are up on this. Yeah, this is a thing. Yeah. I love Lily Allen. Exactly in the zone of like social media that I don't have access to. I don't pursue it and so it doesn't come to me.

Lily Allen also apologized to Katy Perry for being mean to her about Blue Origin. I'm going the other way on that one. I'm with... Shame them on that one. Shame them. I agree. Uh, okay. Well... Wait, there was one more thing I wanted to talk about. There's a couple of things. I mean, one, this is post-Sound of Freedom Corps. That's the thing about the human trafficking thing,

is that that movie was a huge sensation. We thought, what would be the ripple effect of this? We talked about Angel Studios. Could you have a different kind of storytelling? The truth is, it was always there. You know, Lionsgate was always making movies like this, and this is a movie that is pitched to a very specific audience.

It just doesn't have that harebrained craziness that Beekeeper has that kind of propulsively kept you interested in where the story was going because it was so strange. It's just very straightforward. He's gonna kill these guys, and then he's gonna win in the end. This movie was dying for a twist,

which would essentially be like, spoilers for Man on Fire, essentially be the Mark Anthony twist of Man on Fire. Like it's really dying for like another step and you get like midway through and you're like, oh, it's just like he's gonna single-handedly disassemble the Russian Bob. Yes. Okay.

And that would be the thing I think also that would get people to say, you know what you gotta see is a working man. That movie's crazy. But it doesn't really have that. Like it's solid, it's doing what it wants to do, but it's not great. What's up with these guys, though?

Human trafficking. I mean, like, I guess, you know, it goes all the way back to, like, the searchers or whatever. It's like a child kidnapped is like, it goes back to the slave trade, Chris. You know, ancient Rome. No, I know.

I understand, like, the origins of that. I meant in cinema. As soon as you put this in, I was like, oh great, here comes the demo. Um, yeah. I would say this idea as a central preoccupation of a certain kind of man who's trying to present his idea of like his vision of family and patriotism

is just really weird. It's like you can be, when you're so obsessed with something, it's suspicious to me. Yes. And the fact that it has, like, infected mainstream action movies. It's a big plot line on lioness in the second season. Right. You know, it's suspect. Yeah.

As Chucky once said. Of course. You said it just like you, and I was like, oh my God, is he gonna say it? This is an Affleck-coded pod today. Any other thoughts on The Working Man? Pretty boring. Yeah, I thought it was pretty boring too.

The Amateur. This is a movie that I triggered a feeling when I shared on the pod. It's not a bad movie. Directed by James Hawes. It's based on a novel written some 35 years ago. You've read it. My boy, Robert Lattell. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Really good espionage writer, wrote a book called The Company, which is kind of like

an epic of the CIA that was adapted into a TNT mini-series with Alfred Molina and Chris O'Dowd. No, Chris O'Donnell, my bad. And then has written a bunch of like slimmer novels that are actually really cool and have like some Paul Oster, Don DeLillo stuff going on, including I think amateur, which I do have but don't remember reading, but is much different than what the film winds up being.

Oh, interesting. That's good to know. So, you know, in brief, the plot is Rami Malek plays a brilliant but introverted CIA operative like a tech ops guy who works out of a basement office. His wife goes to London for a work trip. She's played by Rachel Brosnahan and she is killed in a terrorist act in London. And he is completely destroyed by this and goes on a quest to find the actual terrorist who killed him against the wishes of the CIA and frankly everybody else involved in this story and kind of goes on a quest to find the actual terrorists who killed him against the wishes of the CIA and frankly everybody else involved in this

Story and kind of goes on a strategic killing spree throughout Europe It says one of the best casts of the year features not just Malik and Brosnahan But Katrina Balfe Michael Stuhlbarg, Holt McCallany, Julian Nicholson and Laurence fucking Fishburne And it's one of those movies that's like 68 percent there and the final 32 percent is the most important percent. So it's not bad but it's not good. And the reason it triggered the feeling for me was I was like God, how do we get to the final 30 percent? I'm looking for the final 32 percent.

Oh yeah, why am I seeing this on a Monday night? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Instead of doing bedtime. So what did you think? We haven't talked about it yet. Well, instead of seeing it on a Monday night, I saw it on a Friday at noon. Which is probably optimal. It's absolutely optimal.

That's the best way to see it. And this is also in the Amanda wheelhouse, right? Like, tinges of international espionage, famous actors. And so I would maybe give it like 72%. I would watch one of these every month if they would make them. I had a perfectly nice time. There is something missing.

Shall we name it? We have to say. It's an actor at the center of the movie. This movie stars Rami Malek. I'm sorry, that does not connect for me. I think there's... Certainly, I think Rami Malek can be an effective actor. I think he's... And an effective hacker.

And an effective hacker. And it does feel like he was cast out of his role in Mr. Robot, which is where he became famous, a role he was born to play. This movie needs, like, a more handsome and dynamic person at the center of it. Like, it needs, like, a lead to be the lead and

Rami Malik is like kind of a number two for a movie like this He's the guy who helps the movie is obviously very purposefully trying to subvert your expectations They're like, oh this meek little guy would come along and blow up this pool and kill these Russian bad guys I totally get the idea of the movie But in my head I was like if you just put Andrew Garfield in this role and puts and put him in some glasses It's probably just a better movie and I felt that the whole time I was watching it. I was like, I'm not really with Malik at all. I know he's mad that his wife was killed. It's completely understandable. Anybody would be completely destroyed by this, but I just couldn't get emotionally invested in the story.

I thought while I was watching this, that it was a really good concept for the movie would be like, what if Q was James Bond? And then I got really distracted being like... What if Ben Wishaw? He got to be Q, but he was like... Ben Wishaw's even better than Andrew Garfield. If it was Ben Wishaw, that would've been great. Yeah.

I mean, it's a little bit of like, it's what Ben Affleck is doing in The Accountant and Accountant 2, but weirder. But you do need someone who is... who is the type and then is like playing against type, but then can become the type in the center of the film. You need a movie star. We are probably...

Do you think at the very end of or still in the throes of... WIC adaptation variations like nobody, love hurts, you know, like these like, you thought he was just a normal guy, but he's actually a killer, you know? I guess Wic's not like that, but like that style of fighting applied to almost everything. Yeah, I think this is pulling from a different aspect of the Wic storytelling. Like, this think this is pulling from a different aspect of the wick storytelling

Like this is a very grim straightforward Serious spy movie that happens to have these remarkable set piece kills Like it's actually is to your point like a little closer to bond Where you're it's like episodic and you're kind of waiting for him to get to the next kill the next set piece It doesn't have any of that attempt at action humor that love hurts or nobody or all of these movies where you're trying to be like it does have I guess the surprise of what if Kiwi Kwan or Boba and Kirk punched a guy in the neck, right, but This has none of the levity of those movies It has none of the mythology or none of the like grandeur of the wick movies the accountant

Which are I dubbed John Bick in the document here, I hope all of you caught that. That's some of my best headline work that I no longer get to use publicly. I was great once at that very specific thing. The accountant, I think, kind of is like self-knowing. You know, it might not be, it's like self-aware. And this movie is not that self-aware. You know, it's played much more seriously. So

again like This is not a bad film. It's actually very well made By Hawes. I think a couple of the set pieces are very exciting They were all given away in the trailer. Mm-hmm Becoming a discussion point here with the pool sequence is really cool and the design of that is a great idea It looks good in the execution, but we saw it and we saw it I think because the studio was nervous that people wouldn't go see it if they didn't have a big set piece like that so I think would you go in a pool like that even before having seen this

movie yeah I'm pretty I'm pretty open to lots of different pool experiences even like I don't really like indoor pools but other than that 30 feet I don't know that would be a tough way to go. Yeah You wouldn't swim in that pool No, I think it's the height kind of counteracts the the joy of being in a pool, which I do love What do you think about infinity pools? on ground You know like what do you mean on ground as opposed to suspended between two large towers? Yeah What do you mean on ground? As opposed to suspended between two large towers?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. Well, I'm not naturally occurring infinity pools. That's actually what two towers is about. It's just Frodo wants to go swimming. Pool. Let's go see it! No, I have seen it, I think.

Is that the first one? Nope. Second one? Yes. I've seen the second one and the third one. Second one's with the trees. But not the first one. I can't really remember.

You went to go see the second one having not seen the first one? Uh-huh. And the third one, I saw them back to back. Because in college they did like a thing. Were you blackout drunk by the end of the third one? No. Because you weren't allowed to have booze in these. They were serious film screenings.

I don't know why I went, but I did. I saw both of them. Okay. Did you have a companion with you or no? Yes, but I can't remember who it was. It wasn't a boy. It wasn't Elijah Wood. It wasn't, okay, nevermind.

It wasn't like a date. I wasn't like there, yeah, on the behest of, you know. Have you seen Fellowship of the Ring? I have, yeah. I guess I've seen it a couple times, right? Excellent movie. The Hobbits, they set off, right? Yeah, they set off on a quest to throw the ring into the...

The mysterious guy named Strider. Okay. Aragorn? Yeah, they call themselves Strider in the beginning. Why? Because he's trying to obscure his royal lineage. O.J. Simpson? A football player? Aragorn? The Lost King? Okay. Infinity Pools? I'm open. What about you, infinity pool? I'm always kind of

curious about Airbnb's that market a pool close to a natural body of water as a selling point. To me it seems a little bit redundant. I know the pools are a cleaner experience usually, but like I don't want to go in a pool next to the ocean. I agree with you. Gonna throw a couple of things though for you. You and I have been there on the surf reports you know and if it's a choppy day you can't get in the... There's nothing worse than being at the beach and not being able to get in the water. So and then also smaller kids sometimes, sometimes the, you know, you can't really take a baby in the ocean,

but in the way that you can take a small kid in a pool. But I support you. William Finnegan, the author, was raised by waves. I know, on Will Rogers. Yeah. It's a wonderful book. What did these four movies tell us about where action stands right now?

I was wondering if there was going to be any conclusion to this podcast. I'm, I'm, I'm curious for your points of view, you know, action is not a genre that you shy away from, you see all the action movies with us. So it's not, you know, it's not like horror where you're like, I don't know. I like you watch all these movies. Is there something good happening, bad happening? Most of these- Is it just April? I think it's a little bit April.

These were all, with the exception of the amateur, the first three were pretty, were gnarlier and more gun focused than I tend to like, which is, that's just a preference thing. That's obviously like a huge part of the genre, and a huge part of even action movies I really like, like the John Wick movies. But they're all, so that's, but they're all like pretty grody

and pretty, let's just like shove things in people's faces. There is a lot of choreography involved in all of this, but I wouldn't call them, like, balletic, you know? No. That's OK. There are lots of different ways to kill a guy. Yeah. There is some, a little bit in Havoc.

You can see the high level choreography. I think Havoc has that, like, crazy Busby Berkeley energy that I think Gareth Evans actually would like to make a musical, and it's just like, I can't. So I just have these people fly through each other. I don't know. I mean, I think that The Accountant 2's success is like, honestly quite charming because it is an original story and it really, really just reminds me of like 80s action movies in a big time way,

even down to like, like abrupt tonal shifts. Like they kill 80 dudes and then John Bernthal adopts a cat. You know, it's like, it's really the entire spectrum of the human experience happens. It has literally one thing that I think I should mention, very similar to those Schwarzenegger and Stallone action films in the 80s, where there are 100 men facing two men and all 100 men have guns and for whatever reason they will not pick up their guns and shoot the two guys who are attempting to take them out. But Berthold's like, time for hand-to-hand combat.

They're all like, yes, an honest fight. It's just, it's great that we still have that at the movies. Doesn't Berthold also get shot like nine times and is... Directly in the chest. Yeah. Not ideal. I don't know if I can draw any massive conclusions from these four films together. I think obviously we talked about some of the political undercurrents of three of them.

And I think even amateur has some like, you know, suppressed masculine urges and like, you know, like not being part of the physical world, you know, kind of stuff that I think is an affliction. I think that's a probing insight. I think there's definitely something to that. It also has the basic, like, there are parts of the CIA that are, you know. Working against our better interests.

Exactly, yeah. I mean, it has- Men would rather avenge their dead wife rather than go to therapy. No, I meant whole McElheny. Would rather copy and paste suicide bomber on a drone attack than face consequences. That's true.

So there you go. There's an incisive. But Julianne Nicholson, who's the head of the CIA, because in this world, women can't have it all, knows what's up. So she's got her own guy to go check in on the situation. I am mansplaining how black ops work in the diner scene. That's a great moment in that movie.

Do you know what I will say that I noticed about all four of these movies is, no, not really about havoc, but the other three is how annoying smartphones have become with the storytelling of a lot of this stuff where they're just like, download the security footage to my phone and let me stream it now.

And you're just like, this is stupid. This is like 20 minutes of the movie. Should be you getting the footage or figuring out who this is. And instead, like these kids can hack into any computer in the world. And then like, now you're, you're all good. You know who it is. There should be a big mystery. They, it takes them a little while. That was one of the more riveting sequences, you know?

I'd like to know if they're actually like, what are they actually doing? Cause they're doing a lot of, like... I prefer Cronenberg's vision of what we can do with smartphones, which is we can have a 24-hour surveillance camera on our dead spouses decomposing corpse and look at it anytime we miss them. That's just... He is the only one who truly understands technology in this world. I'm not sure if I have some big takeaway. I mean, we're now entering a time of the year where the action movies are really big.

We're about to see Thunderbolts. We're about to see Mission Impossible. You know, we're about to see F1 as a kind of action movie. Jurassic's kind of action movie. Jurassic is an action movie for sure. These are like tent pole films. These four films are trying to come by their audiences in a slightly different way.

They're, if not original stories, they're more or less original based on novels. They're star-oriented. They need, you need to be like, I like action movies to go see this movie, not I like franchises or I like this character. And... It's all a little, it's a little, all a little dad action to your earlier point. It is. You're waiting for ballerina. I mean, I'll see it. You want a lady in the center of the story. You think it's women's time to be dancers and assassins.

I like it when they can dance and fight. Yeah, do you think my daughter would like ballerina? Uh, no, I don't. But I think she's gonna try to see it many times. What if I tell her, sweetheart, I'm going to see ballerina tonight? Can she read yet? Can she read yet? She's three and a half. I don't know. She's very smart.

Way smarter than my sons. And she also... Like, that's fine. It's just, developmentally, how it works. She knows the alphabet. And I would think that she could... Does she think Knox intuitively understands all the makes and models of the American Air Force? I'm assuming he does.

Also, he's been, like, putting in the work. You know, he's been at the museum. He's been running the tape. I think that she... I wonder if she can recognize the word ballerina at this point. And have you considered it? If she sees the commercial, we're in a lot of trouble. She will get very invested in the action filmmaking styles of Chad Stahelski. I think we did watch a Godzilla movie yesterday.

We watched King Ghidorah, the three-headed monster, and it's Japanese subtitles. And she did say, what are the words on the screen? But you obviously can't understand the Japanese characters. So I explained it to her and I would read them along, sometimes, but not all the time, because there's a lot of strange human plot aspect

of Godzilla movies. But that like will lead to a conversation about languages and different ways of communicating. Have you thought about giving her immersive Japanese lessons? Would you like to be the one to give them? No, but like, aren't their brains like sponges at this point? Yeah. Do you think I should take her out of school?

No, it's much easier when you're younger to learn the language. I didn't have that. So this is a part, so camp Chris, there's gonna be soccer drills for three hours a day, then... Catalonian soccer practice and then immersive conversational Japanese. And then after dinner time, we'll be screening Havoc every night. LAUGHS But first, they have to make a meal according to his Instagram Reels. Oh, yeah.

He just wanted to eat it today. Yeah, you can get ready video with all of them every morning. That would be sweet. LAUGHS I don't know if I have any other conclusions. I do have a bit of news to share with you guys, which is that it was just announced that a Miami Vice remake directed by Joseph Kaczynski is going into development right now. Well, Chris? This is big for you, Chris. What does this mean?

How do you feel? We'll see. Okay. I doubt that Michael Mann has any involvement. This is big for you, Chris. What does this mean? How do you feel? We'll see. Okay. I doubt that Michael Mann has any involvement. Obviously Don Johnson on the Mark Maron WTF suggested that Miami Vice was not so much Michael Mann's baby as much as it has been proclaimed. Those were strong words.

Very strong words. And I would argue that the Miami Vice film answers all the questions I had about Michael Mann's relationship to the to the material Superior product an incredible movie. What if I told you Dan Gilroy was writing the script? I think it has the potential to be incredible. I you know, but Wow, you you're this is this is a muted response from you. I Just I'm in a weird spot with it did response from you? I just I'm in a weird spot with it. Kaczynski also I'm glad to hear that Dan Gilmore is writing that script because I think Kaczynski not unlike Gareth Evans needs a good screenwriter. He does. What if the announcement said it was Christopher McQuarrie writing the

script? I think that would be great. I think that would be great. I mean they're not Jamie Foxx and Colin Farrell are not reprising their roles. I take that's not the impression I'm getting. It's going to be a reboot. What if it's Brad Pitt and Dancin Idris from F1? Let's see if F1, if they have the charisma. Where's where's your head out with F1? I think I'm pretty I'm pretty excited. I've definitely like I'm like, you guys have shown me enough footage.

I will watch this film. I want to see it in IMAX, but... But you're waiting. You're not getting any more content. I'm with you. I think I'm sold. I'm at the point now with Mission Impossible where they debuted some new poster or something and I'm like hiding my eyes, you know?

Like I instinctively just jumped from the computer because I was like, don't spoil anything for me until I actually get to see this film. I know. Yeah. Will you watch all the Mission Impossible films leading up to this to get the canon lockdown? I haven't decided yet. I am. I already bought my tickets for the May, the Thursday fan event. I bought two in case you'd like to join me. Oh wow. I also not not, I don't want to disinclude you, but if you'd like to join us, please buy one after this. I also we got our invite to for the press screening. Yeah, I rest in peace. Mission Impossible is a

religion to me. Especially Macquarie Cruz, Mission Impossible. But there's something about like not being overexposed going into the new one like I've seen these movies a lot I've seen directing three times like I don't know that I even need to rewatch that one to go into this I also feel like the way that they're pitching the film is I have a feeling not gonna be as important in the actual watching the film like they're pitching the movie as like Ethan Hunt the culmination life and you're like all right like rabbit's foot this that. And you're like, all right, like Rabbit's Foot,

this, that, Kremlin, you know, I got it. It's up here. But most people don't have the powerful mind that you have. No, but they made those movies up as they went along. So now to look back and be like these essential moments in the history of this like honestly improvised action blockbuster series.

You prefer how the MCU does it, you know, where it's just established storyline told over ten years. And you cannot deviate. And do not miss anything. You have to see every episode of Secret Invasion, otherwise you're just lost. I'm really excited for hanging out with you post credits on Thunderbolts tonight.

Oh, you're coming tonight? Oh, yeah. Oh, good. I never know. I've been told, uh, sit through the credits. Okay. Thunderbolts, just a heads up. Did you see, uh, Tom Cruise did go to see Sinners? And then hopefully posted sit through the credits?

Tom! Where were you? If only you had waited, and you would have known. The truth was told, and Tom spake it. Um, yeah, I mean, of course he loved that movie performatively, as he does. Uh... Whoa. He loves the movie. He's virtue signaling. No, I just mean he performed that he liked it Okay to us in the public via the social media Tom Cruise get behind a real stinker You know interesting like Tom Cruise being like I'm home watching

It would be more interesting if it was like Minecraft movie is my favorite movie of the year. You know? Like a movie that would be hard. Would that be interesting? It would be interesting, yeah. I need to see some glimmer of personality from Tom this time around. Yeah, it would be good if he was like, Thunderbolts, kind of sucked.

I'm not sure if that's in play. So you're feeling good about the movies? Yeah, but I also I'm always right there. I'm always right even keel with film. The rehearsal? What about it? You watched episode two? I have not watched episode two yet.

Jack was explaining it to me before. I'm aware of the discourse around it. Yeah, I was not until Jack Sanders gave me a recap. I'm not going to spoil it for anybody who hasn't seen it. Yeah. It's the funniest thing I've seen since the last time Nathan. I was not until Jack Sanders gave me a recap. I'm not going to spoil it for anybody who hasn't seen it. Yeah. It's the funniest thing I've seen since the last time Nathan Fielder was on TV. I, he has, he has a, he's tapped into my cortex and Eileen and I were laughing very, very

hard at the final 10 minutes of the episode last night. That's a TV show. Yeah. Which is not technically what we do here, but Nathan Fielder at work on his debut feature film for A24. Oh, wow. Not sure if you guys knew that. Did you, are we just throwing around news headlines now?

Sure. Are you guys excited about Hater coming back with the, the Jonestown show? I mean, you and Andy pointed out that the studio synchronicity of it is, it's really funny. So. Yeah. I still want the movie though. Me too. I want the Bill Hader movie. And I trust, I mean, he's a great TV maker, as we know. And I like, I assume this is a mini series, not a feature.

I think it's a mini series. Which sounds cool, but where's Bill Hader's horror movie? Where's his incredibly violent action movie? Where's his thriller? I mean, it could be this. Could be all of those things. Yeah. Interesting. Where are you at on Jonestown?

Good idea? Bad idea? I said on the pod, I'm actually like, I know all of the highlights without actually knowing the story. Oh, interesting. Why have you been keeping away from it? It's just one of those things in history and life where you're like, right, the punch. But then you're like, oh, I actually don't know what was up with that guy.

You know, the punch. Sorry, it even took me a minute. Yeah. I really like The Sacrament, the Thai West movie, which is very loosely based on the Jonestown situation. I'm not saying that that's the whole story there. It's obviously not. But it's been kind of sort of done before. Was there a Jonestown TV movie? I believe there was.

Somewhat famously like an Emmy winning Jonestown. There's a Corresh one recently. That was with Riggins, right? Yeah, with Riggins. Taylor Kitsch. Did you watch that? I watched the first couple and then I got the gist and I moved on.

What was the name of the show that you and Andy were talking about on the same episode? Sandbaggers. Sandbaggers, right. And then, so I'm excited to see it. But then the creator who was ex-military and was basically a spy, was like disappeared over Alaska. I mean, that's conjecture. That's the movie I want to see.

Can I give you one last question on the action movies tip? Yeah. So relative to our TV versus movies stuff, I think if you look at TV right now, a lot of the things that are really working, Reacher, Lioness, Andor, The Last of Us, have those shows kind of supplanted A Working Man, The Accountant 2?

Because we talk about this with a lot of different kinds working man, the accountant too. Cause we talk about this with a lot of different kinds of things like prestige TV, did that come for Rain Man's ability to be both the biggest movie of the year and the best picture winner? That's a, we've had that conversation 900 times, but this is like a slightly different thing because it feeds this, Reacher feeds the same. It does. I don't think it ever reaches any of the ecstatic action heights that say havoc does

But it does allow For a lot more. It's closer to the accountant that it probably is a working man You know where it's just like it's got a lot of humor and it's got a lot of like But it doesn't have Ben Affleck or John Brenton.. It doesn't. How do you feel about Alan Richson? Large. Do you think he's compelling? He was pretty, I mean, he had to act opposite Brie Larson in the, it was then one of the fast...

He blew her off the screen in Fast X. Well, I mean, he did. No, it was just like, and they were in, you know, some weird room, and I was distracted by her eyebrows, and then he was very charismatic opposite her. Legitimately. But that's, and I was distracted by her eyebrows. And then he was very charismatic opposite her. But that's... And I marveled at his physique. It was Marlon Brando and someone who's never acted before. He was good in the Guy Ritchie movie.

He was. The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare. Uh, that was a fun movie. Guy Ritchie, speaking of action, he's got a film coming soon called Fountain of Youth. He's got like three films coming. That's going directly to Apple TV Plus. My question, why? It stars John Krasinski. Is it Natalie Portman? Yes. John Krasinski and Natalie Portman in an adventure film directed by Guy Ritchie straight to Disney Plus. I mean Apple TV Plus. Why? Money. What money?

They left money on the table. They got their money up front. That's probably why it cost like $300 million to make it. But shouldn't Apple try to make some more money on it? Am I crazy? They have enough money. Like this is not Havoc. Where it's like 300 Chris's in a room crying and then like nothing on the second weekend. That's number one on Netflix.

Season three of the rehearsal. Havoc is far and away out of the four movies we discussed. Havoc is by far the most widely seen. And the best. Totally fair. But I understand that Apple TV is different. They have 300 million subscribers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Fountain of Youth is coming out in less than a month. OK. Does anyone know what that is? Well, everyone at this table now does. I know a fair amount about it just because I'm very curious about it. Because of Krasinski? No, because Guy Ritchie is an object of fascination to me.

And when he, like, I'm always interested in his, like, when are you trying? Versus like, when are you directing via iPad from the set of a commercial you're also directing? The Covenant was really good. I like that movie. Wrath of Man was good, but he was not on set for the direction of that film. Where was he? He was in England, directing via iPad because of COVID. good, but he was not on set for the direction of that film. Where was he? He was in England directing via iPad because of COVID.

Oh, interesting. Yeah. I don't think I knew that. Yeah, I think he does. I know that's a big Tim Simons talking point. He works. He's like he shot the first two episodes of Mobland, Fountain of Youth, The Gray. What's the next one coming with Gyllenhaal? In The Gray. In The Gray. That's like later this year.

And then he just signed up for another movie that he's directing. Sorry, did you read the plot summary of this film? And I just wasn't listening to you? Isn't it actually a quest for the film? It's a brother and sister search. Yeah, using historical clues. They embark on an epic quest filled with adventure. Yeah, it's like national treasure.

If successful, the mythical fountain could grant them immortality. The siblings are John Krasinski and Natalie Portman. Yeah, it's like Raiders of the Lost Ark. Did you say that out loud and I just like blacked out? No, I didn't say it. I assumed that you saw the trailer. I texted Chris about this like three weeks ago and I was like, why the fuck is this movie going to streaming? So Stanley's future is someone called The Elder,

who I'm guessing probably, you know, has wisdom. Is it the same character from The Electric State that he played? Um, oh, I forgot about that. That was tough. Did you see a picture of all the Conclave guys smoking? At the actual Conclave? The real, the real Cardinals. The real Cardinals. I think it was after the funeral. But there were a bunch of Cardinals outside.

Yeah, it can't start till next week, right? So what are your plans? Let's go. Good question. Okay. We've already got one spinoff. We texted a little bit about some of our clubhouse favorites. Yeah. There's one guy who pissed off Mike Pence, who I was scouting. Interesting. You're trying to put your weight behind.

Well, I worked for Radsicker. Yeah, and that worked out great for the world. Great choice on your part. I wasn't saying I liked him. You mean for the betting markets. Not for your passions as a vowed Catholic or not a Catholic. No. No. Okay. You have a pick?

I'm more interested in the machinations, much like in the film Conclave. Apparently, Francis was sort of expanding the court. He was appointing a lot of new cardinals, which, I mean, you know, that was in his right. So that kind of changes the demographic. And there's one guy who's a favorite favorite who I think is the Stanley Tucci. It's like the Secretary of State guy.

Interesting. And is he the favorite? He was the first one on the list on TimeMagazine.com. No CNN. I'm trying to find the blog that I read. By the way, said this privately, great blogging podcast. Thank you so much. Uh, I don't know. You revealed Conclave So Real on that podcast,

which we revealed on this pod 900 times, because it's one of my favorite things that ever happened. When you were just like, look at what I just wrote. August 19th, 2007. I was like, my friend is mentally ill. I love him. I don't know if it's going to work out for Chris. 10 years later...

Chris, what do you think of having? Ten years later, a leader in your field. A god among men. I can't get over the Fountain of Youth thing. Also, they're releasing it on the same day as Lilo and Stitch, which is gonna make a billion dollars in Mission Impossible The Final Reckoning. What the fuck? What?

Is it where the Mission Impossible Final Reckoning is gonna come in second? It's opening weekend. It's very possible. It's very possible. Perhaps even likely. I think Lilo and Stitch is tracking for over 100 million. And that's a guy. What's what's that about? It's about. Yeah. Keep talking. Keep going.

Tell us what you know about Lilo and Stitch. Stitch is a cat. And no, this isn't a bit. Like, I'm actually trying to, like, figure it out. Like, I, because I keep seeing commercials, I think. Yeah. Stitch is a cat. But is he, and then is Lilo his owner? No.

It's about ownership. It's about human trafficking. Yeah. James Cazafil, please. James Cassaville, please. No, Stitch is an alien who comes to Earth and enters a young girl's life and they form a bond and he becomes a part of the family and he gets up to a lot of mischief. Ultimately, Jason Statham comes and goes to solve everything.

It's a family story, really. It's a beautiful movie. It's a live-action adaptation of a Disney animated Gen Z classic. It's just kind of insane that Tom Cruise is gonna be like, I came in second! You know? Do you think that's gonna happen? Do you think he's gonna do an Instagram post about going to the Lulone's Ditch?

By the way, you're blowing Tom Cruise's head off at the box office, makes me really sad. I gotta be honest, that's not what I want. I think he will acknowledge it. And he'll be like, have a great time out at the box office makes me really sad. I got to be honest. That's not what I want. I think he will acknowledge it. And he'll be like, have a great time out at the movies this weekend. No matter what you see. Yeah. Yeah, just don't stay at home and watch Fountain of Youth on Apple TV Plus.

That's what he'll tell you. I mean, I guess we do know that the kid market trumps the grownup market. So it probably will come in second. But I think it's going to do well. So it's is it. But it's not Memorial Day weekend, right? Is that Memorial Day weekend? Memorial Day is the last weekend. Oh, no, it is Memorial Day.

Isn't it? It is. Lilo and Stitch is also. Yeah. Yeah, it's Memorial Day weekend. OK. And last question for you, CR. Are you gonna see Hurry Up Tomorrow, this film about the weekend? Yeah, probably.

Let's check it out. I mean, I liked The Idol. That's true. You did, you did like The Idol. I was with you for like 1.7 episodes, and then we were at a party and a friend of ours costed us, actually we were at a party at a friend of ours costed us. Actually, we were at a party at your house. And he called us on the carpet and he was like,

this is a shameful public act that you have participated in. That was like where I was like Boramir in Fellowship of the Ring. Right. Just taking all the arrows. I remember you were like, I'm committed now. I was like, I'm in too deep. It was the night before the finale. and you actually had to go home.

You're like, I gotta go watch the idol because... We've all been there. We've all been in... Like, I'm in too deep to get out now. Just like Sonny Crockett, I was too committed to the idol. Yeah. I could have had a world-class French meal seated beside Ethan Hawke, but instead I went to go see NIAID. You know, that was what I did for the game. And you went home to watch The Idol.

You left the party early to watch The Idol. And you made content out of it. What have you done? What were your great sacrifices for the game? Watching Havoc in Palm Springs? Please know that I watched Havoc at 8 a.m. this morning. Okay, in Los Angeles, California. I handed the children off as like, good luck kiddos.

I have to go back upstairs and watch Tom Cruise, I mean Tom Hardy beat people into a pulp. I think every other decision I've made is good. Okay. Chris, thank you. Thanks for your service today. I really appreciate you turning your time over to this show. Thanks to Jack Sanders for his work. Amanda, thank you. We'll be back in, I don't know, 36 hours with a new 25 for 25 episode. No spoilers about what it will be.

We will see you then. you