The Big Picture - Has '1917' Already Locked Up Best Picture? And Is That Bad for the Academy Awards? | The Oscars Show

Episode Date: January 27, 2020

After a victory at the Directors Guild of America Awards, Sam Mendes's '1917' seems poised for dominance on Oscar night. How did the most exciting race in years become so predictable so quickly? And if there are surprises on February 9, what will they be? Sean, Amanda, and Chris Ryan debate whether a '1917' Best Picture win would signal a return to unimaginative Academy tradition (1:17). Then they break down the weekend's box office winners and losers, including Guy Ritchie's tasteless but entertaining crime romp 'The Gentlemen' (22:32). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Chris Ryan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Big Picture, brought to you by AT&T, reminding you that when it comes to wireless networks, just okay is not okay. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about what has become an absurdly predictable Oscar season. Amanda, we're here at the Sundance Film Festival. We're joined by our pal, Chris Ryan. Hi, Chris. I'd like to thank everybody on Reddit, everybody on Twitter who's been demanding that I return to the big picture after my terrible, unfair banning following the Roger Deakins podcast. It is with great regret that I have allowed Chris to return to this show against my better judgment.

I was telling Amanda, I had to over under for my return to this show against my better judgment. I thought, I was telling Amanda, I had the over-under from my return to this show at Easter. Much like Christ, I would return to this pod. You know, Chris, I think of you like the podcast Shambi. You know, sometimes you just can't see out of your glasses and what you need is a soft rag to clean it up. And you are the soft rag of the big picture. So I appreciate you coming back here. You know, later in the show,

we're going to talk about some of the important movies released this weekend. And maybe we'll talk a little bit about some of the movies we're seeing at the Sundance Film Festival. But first, we need to go to the big picture's big picture.

This is a problem in the big picture. Do you know what I mean? And of course, we're talking about the Oscar race. And the DGA Awards happened this weekend. And I'm feeling a bit dissolute about the oscars guys because sam sam mendes won and um that's boring amanda were you surprised at all by the results of that win i was just slightly because i think again we had all

convinced ourselves that bong joon-ho really had a chance at the djs which he he might have he might have been the second place vote getter. But we really thought there was momentum, basically, because there was one cool party at the Sunset Tower that Sean and I both really wanted to have been at. And we were like, oh, great. Now Bong Joon-ho is going to win the Oscar. The tide is turning. Alas, that was not the case.

But I think so. That is surprising in the sense of we let our feelings and hopes and expectations and party aspirations get in the way. But in reality, no, it's not that surprising. Yeah, I mean, 15 of the last 16 winners of DGA for feature film have gone on to win Best Director. So this is a pretty... You're feeling...

Are we in lockdown yet? Well, the one exception that happened in the history of the DGAs is when Ben Affleck won for Argo. And then very oddly, he was not even nominated for an Oscar in 2012. So this is, you know, we talk about super duper locky locks on this show. But at this point, if Sam Mendes doesn't win, it will be stunning, I think. Yes. The question is, are we a double lock for 1917 for Best Picture and Sam Mendes for Best Director?

When's the last time that happened? Picture director? lock for 1917 for best picture and sam and his for best director when's the last time that happened picture director um it's happened two out of the last six times okay and four out of the last six times there's been a split so you know damien chazelle won for best director but moonlight went on to win best picture things like that happen frequently alfonso cuaron won for gravity but did not win for best picture so it happens happens. The split is common. It's just, I don't feel like any of the other eight nominees feel like they have enough momentum to break the 1917 wave. Obviously, it just won the PGA too. PGA, DGA, Globes, there's too much math at this point. And it's really got me kind of crestfallen. I don't want to be melodramatic on a podcast about the meaningless Oscars, but I'm pretty

bummed. I am as well. It's boring in two ways. It's boring in the sense of it's January 26th or 27th, and we think we know exactly what's going to happen in every one of the major categories of the Oscars. But that's just boring. At some point, it's just a professional problem. We got to make a podcast.

Yeah. And we're sitting here just sulking. And, you know, God bless you for listening to us, Salk. And thank you for sharing in our sad emotions. But there is it's not fun and exciting. There's no anticipation or mystery. The other is just that 1917 is such a classic Best Picture Oscar thing. And I am on record on this podcast somehow being like, I didn't mind 1917. I thought it worked very effective. Yes.

Amanda reply guy Dobbins. But again, it's the thing of the actual great film never wins best picture. And it's always something kind of predictable that feels influenced by certain older, more traditional members of the Academy. And it's not fun in a story level either. Chris, you don't pay as close attention to this stuff as we do on a regular basis. No, but I was wondering if you guys could tell me if you feel like there's a little bit of an issue here

with the bumped up date of the Oscars. Like there's not enough runway for any of these other movies to tell a story. Perhaps like 1917 was released at the exact right time, at the exact right moment, the exact right kind of pitch and everybody's like yes i do not have to re-watch the irishman this is the best movie i do think that that's exactly what happened i think it you know frequently we talked on the show about movies getting released in december being a hindrance to its awards campaign i think

because of the incredibly multifarious nature of the the nominees this year the fact that it's kind of seemed like there were three to four front runners at any given time a movie like this coming late actually benefited in a big way because no no there's still no real kind of like negative pitch on the movie i guess the biggest criticism the movie's getting and i should say i think all three of us really like the movie it's this isn't really like a value judgment on 1917 but the biggest criticism is just this sort of video game-esque quality of the storytelling, I think. But otherwise, we're not in the hatchet job days of the late 90s and early 2000s where you'd drum up these incredible negative campaigns against movies. Most movies have not come up against it, but we've lived with all these movies for a long time.

And 1917 still feels fresh to people. And I think the freshness of the filmmaking style is what's winning people over someone mentioned something i can't recall who said it but the dga win in particular is notable because that prize doesn't just go to sam endes it goes to the first unit directors the second unit directors all of the people who work on the crew of that film in that capacity and all those people vote sure and so all of those people those sort of below the line folks who work on a film want to reward an achievement like this movie um so i think that that's also a significant factor if the movie had been released on november 12th maybe it would not be getting here with such such stride yeah but

i don't know well this is the great divide we have to negotiate with the Oscars every year is that the Oscars, we want them to be a mile marker for cinematic achievement and movies that we're going to remember for a very long time. And sometimes they just reward the things that people who worked on movies were really into. And this was an achievement movie. It's an awe inspiring movie.

It blows people away. It's a movie to see in theaters, you know, and, and against a lot of different movies that you know for as great as marriage story is and for great as irishman is you know you see people come out of it and they have sort of diffuse takes on it it's like they come out and they're like i made me it was very thoughtful i made me think a lot about this stuff 1917 there's

actually not a lot of thinking that goes into that it's a feeling movie it's a real like i am being my my feelings and and my heart are being completely played by the director and the cinematographer and the editor. So that movie actually historically doesn't always win. You know, I mentioned Gravity before. I think if you think about Avatar, like Avatar was that movie, which was just an amazing achievement at the time. We kind of make fun of Avatar now, but when Avatar came out, it was a very big deal to people who make movies. People couldn't understand how Jim Cameron did that. Didn't win Best Picture. Hurt Locker won. Parasite is kind

of the Hurt Locker of 2020. Except that Hurt Locker is a war movie, and 1917 is also a war movie. And I really do think it's a combination of what Chris... It's three things. It's timing, though I think Best Picture is always a case of timing, and somebody just finds the right spot in their particular year, and it changes from year to year year and you win. I think also to Chris's point, it just, it is a technical achievement and every single person from a crafts level or who understands what's going on behind the camera in that movie is really responding to it. And then it does also hit the kind of serious Oscar center of a war movie. So let me ask you this. We have two full weeks until the ceremony.

What are we even supposed to talk about? What is even the nature? Because we talked about this shortened season. I can't even imagine if the awards were on February 23rd and we still had this sort of fait accompli feeling about 1917. What is the storyline? What is the narrative? I mean, it's up to us, I guess, to invent it in some ways, but I kind of don't know what to say about these awards right now because everything feels so locked in. I do wonder if it were February 23rd, whether all of, and thus the guilds and everything was a bit more spaced out, whether there is a little bit more room to move and you do see Parasite winning. I mean, you did see Parasite winning at the SAG Awards, but you see something other than people just

kind of scrambling for 1917 because it's right there. So I think in some ways, the fact that we don't have anything to talk about is the result of the compressed season. It's just kind of everyone's like, well, we ran out of time. This is the one. See you next year. And it's not even a frustration of a binary this year, although I will say, yeah, obviously people are going to be disappointed that Parasite probably won't win,

although it was such a long shot, I think it's fair to say. This is just such a rich movie year. It's not like 1917 is going to beat Ford versus Ferrari. It's going to be Irishman. It's going to beat Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. It's going to be Parasite. These are all movies that I think

we'll be watching for years to come. It's hard to imagine being like, time for me to fire up 1917 in five years. Maybe, but right now it's hard. In a weird time for me to fire up 1917 in five years maybe but right now it's hard in a weird way 1917 for all its achievements i also think is um the candidate with the least with the least amount of negatives like there i haven't really read very i gotta be honest i didn't even think my case against 1917 was particularly compelling it sounded more like whining and most of the pieces i've read that that have taken issue with the movie are kind of like,

I just didn't like this. You know, it's not really like nobody has been able to unwind that movie or really poke a hole in it in a way where I was like, I hate this now. Thank you for articulating what it was that was bothering about it. That's happened in years before where I've been like, that's why I don't like La La Land. Yeah. You know what I mean? But that didn't happen this year with 1917.

I think you're exactly right. I think there actually hasn't been a La Land. Yeah. You know what I mean? But that didn't happen this year with 1917. I think you're exactly right. I think there actually hasn't been a compelling case for it not. It's just that we've seen something like it win so many times that we're almost conditioned

especially when we're making a show like this to seek something new and also to convince ourselves that because the Academy has this kind of awful history of rewarding not the best movie as Amanda is saying

that at some point because of all of these efforts that they've made in the last five years to change things and all these efforts they've made in the last 10 years to expand the best picture pool to all the things that they've done to change things they're still just kind of doing oscary things and we saw that this year with the sorts of people that were nominated for best director the lack of people of color being nominated for acting prizes like it just kind of feels like everything that happened in the last five years just kind of got reset for some reason.

And maybe that's just a function of where the industry is and what particular movies we got this year. But I don't know. I find myself in a kind of intellectual quicksand with this where I can't figure out why this won't change. Well, it changes slowly, which I think we've talked about with, I think it'll take decades rather than years

for them to fix the female director's problem or the actors of color problem. And those are just the two of many because you add members slowly and they have added a lot of new members and they have taken a lot of efforts, but it's still a tremendous voting body with a large history who's going to outweigh the brand new people. Everyone has a vote. But I think also the reason that we're upset is because we actually

do get invested in this and somehow we believe that maybe one year they will pick the best picture. And they did with Moonlight. And I think that gave us a lot of hope, which maybe we've invested in. And also, what is the point of talking about all this if we're just going to accept the fact that they're doing the same Oscar-y stuff? I think the thing that annoys me a little bit more than even 1917, and I don't mean this to come off the way it's going to sound, is stuff like Renee Zellweger for Judy, where it's like that just seems to exist in an aquarium that is only being viewed by awards voters. And I would at least like the movies that we talk about that get talked about for awards to feel like they are somewhat part of like the real world conversation of people saying like, yeah, I saw this. I saw this movie.

Maybe it was on Netflix, but I saw it. I'm not really I haven't seen Judy. I'm not trying to knock the performance, which is by all accounts really it. I'm not really, I haven't seen Judy. I'm not trying to knock the performance, which is by all accounts really great. I just mean like, that to me is like old school Hollywood. Like, how did that even happen? You mean like,

where's Brie Larson for her work in Endgame? That's what you want to know. No, I mean Captain Marvel and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop ignoring that performance. I'm sorry,

I'm not trying to erase it. She captured the 90s in a way that I don't think Richard Linklater has. But to your point about Judy and real world conversation, I did get a text from one of my closest friends this weekend whose parents see a lot of movies. Her parents are older. And her dad's favorite movie of the year was, I believe, The Irishman. But anyway, mom's favorite movie of the year was Judy.

And the dad's complaint about Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was that it's cinema, not movies, and I like movies. And I was like, wow, that's a tremendous encapsulation of how other people think about movies. We just have to remember we're not the only people.

I've never heard that used as a pejorative. I've heard the opposite. I've heard like, it's a movie, it's not cinema. I felt that it was self-aware. Sort of. If yeah yeah i don't know where are these people what state do they live in they live on long island oh wow there's the answer there well i'm i'm racing from my past at every turn i live in los angeles now so huh yeah well there were some other awards over the weekend obviously there were other awards at the d this view of you like standing outside the arc

light being like Jessica, only child, Long Island, New York. Well, the good thing that's happening here is that when the Parasite Wind happens, we'll get to be exultant. You know, there will actually be an eruption. You just jinxed it. I didn't. I don't have that power. If I did, I would use it much more frequently on this podcast and elsewhere for example i would have deleted chris from existence jinxes i don't i guess so yes i not really not in the sense of like i'm wearing the same clothes for a week or you know i will when watching a sports game if i'm sitting in one place and things go well then i'll kind of stay in that area i do believe in that yeah there's no such thing as jinxes. Okay. At the DGA's,

Almahara won for Outstanding First Feature, which is an award that the Oscars needs to add immediately. And for Documentary, Stephen Bogner and Julia Recker won for American Factory, which, you know, that certainly feels like where that award is going to. So even now, some of the secondary categories seem very predictable right now. What is the one category that's either up in the air or you feel like is vulnerable for upset?

Well, it's a good question. The USC Scripter Awards also happened over the weekend. That's a screenwriting awards that is given out by an interesting array of people. It's something like 50 people. Some screenwriters, some academics, some men and women of letters are involved in giving out the awards. And they give the award to Greta Gerwig for Little Women. And it seems like Greta Gerwig is going to win Best Adapted Screenplay. That is just like a please don't jinx it situation.

I'm very angry at you right now. It's possible. It's possible. It's possible. Anything's possible. I could win Best Adapted Screenplay. I'm not even nominated. Don't count me out.

I actually don't think that you could. I don't think even nominated. Don't count me out. I actually don't think that you could. I don't think you could. Don't count me out. I mean, maybe in the future. A lot of ghost writing on Captain Marvel for me.

I'm ready to come forward. So if not Greta, then many people seem to think. Many people are saying that Taika Waititi for his work on Jojo Rabbit is in the running.

The one award that I don't have a feel for is Original Screenplay. Wait, so Tarantino is not a lock for Once Upon a Time for screenplay? I don't think he's a lock that I don't have a feel for is original screenplay. Wait, so Tarantino is not a lock for Once Upon a Time for screenplay? I don't think he's a lock. I think he's a favorite,

but I don't think he's a lock. And now with the idea that he's not going to win Best Director and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is maybe running in fourth place. Like I don't even know where it is in the hierarchy, which I genuinely find shocking.

The fact that it turned out this way, I really thought that it would be coronation time about two months ago for him. You can tell they did too. They did a lot of work on that movie. I think I said that in July or something, which was extremely wrong of me. I'm wrong, but I'm also shocked.

That it would win. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it checks a lot of the theoretical boxes, but it also has been around for a long time and that may be working against it. Nevertheless, I don't know. I mean, Noah Baumbach could win.

Bong Joon-ho could win. Yeah. You also have to wonder if Best Picture and Best Director are both trending. 1917, then are they going to use,

obviously Parasite will win in foreign film, but will they use the screenplay spot for Bong Joon-ho? It's hard to say. That to me is the hardest one

to predict, I believe, at the moment because we know foreign film's going to Parasite. It seems likely that documentary is going to American Factory. I mean, you know,

everything else is sort of the much more technical awards. You know, that top eight is really what we talk about on the show all the time. And I don't know. This feels unusual. I know the acting awards

are always very predictable, but if you guys had to guess what your one surprise would be, what would you guess? Oh, I mean, it's hard to even imagine Joaquin and zellweger not winning yeah i can't i feel like i feel like it would be shocking if joaquin phoenix didn't win i agree i i don't see that happening i don't see that i mean there are some people who think that there's an outside chance the driver conjures the power but he feels much more like pacino in the 70s right now where it's like they're going to wait 20 years remind Remind me of the actress nominations.

Saoirse Ronan for Little Women, Charlize Theron for Bombshell, Cynthia Erivo for Harriet, and what's the fifth? Wow. This is so rude to whoever I can remember. Scarlett Johansson for Marriage Story. What about Scarlett Johansson for Endgame?

Is that nominated? No, but you know she is also actually nominated for Jojo Rabbit. She is already nominated twice. She's not nominated for Endgame. Is that nominated? No, but she is also actually nominated for Jojo Rabbit. She is already nominated twice. She's not nominated for Endgame. No.

No. Neither is Groot not nominated. Okay. What about Baby Groot? Baby Groot not nominated? What guild is Groot in? He's in the Arbor Union.

Okay, all right. So we haven't heard about that yet. So we haven't really gotten into the arbor union who who is grew up against like obviously like with group no next week is the arby's that's the last every year it's group versus the tree from tree of life the ants from lord of the rings those they're in there too those guys are phenomenal there are a lot of there are a lot of there's

been some good tree performances over the years okay name three more go ahead i just named we named three just now off the top of our head. That tree in Forrest Gump that Forrest and Jenny hang from. Uh-huh. That was a really good tree. There's that tree

that Kevin Costner dies on in A Perfect World. He leans up against it. And then, of course, the tree of life, which is the tree that created life. He did already say that.

What else? Come on, Chris. Come up with a tree. Does Doctor Strange move any trees around? You mean like weed? No, I just mean like, does he do anything to conjure anything?

No, I don't think so. You can't think, are you just staring at me? Cause you're just like, I know that he went out on this plank for this bit and now he can't think of any more trees. Is that what you're doing? There were some other awards this weekend.

The ASC awards for cinematographers were over the weekend. Of course, Roger Deakins, the subject of a previous pod that this trio recorded, was awarded that prize. He also is almost certain to win Best Cinematography.

Yet another award that feels very locked up right now. I really thought the short season was going to mean more unpredictable choices, but unfortunately, that's not the case. Do you think also, can I ask one more inside baseball question? Sure, but we are only in the dugout.

We aren't playing the game. Are people pressed for time watching their screeners? Like, it's like, I feel like I've anecdotally heard a couple of people say like, oh, yeah, you know, it's like doing due diligence to watch all the stuff that I'm supposed to be possibly voting for. But with the shortened season, like people are maybe not even seeing as much stuff. Yes, I yes, yes. I mean, I don't believe that people

see everything that they're supposed to see on a normal year with the two extra weeks, but I think it is certainly very rushed. And I think that is somehow how you get to consensus faster because people are like, oh, well, I hear that it's going to be Renee Zellweger, so I should watch Judy, but maybe I won't watch anything else. That is definitely a thing that happens for sure. That kind of consensus building that happens early on takes place. But that runs counter to the 1917 conversation we're having. That's why it's such a confusing state of predictability for me. Because you can't draw lessons out of it.

Exactly. There's no real takeaways here. It's more just like if you have the right movie at the right time, you're likely to win unless you run a damn good campaign that starts in August. Yeah. Which is what she did. I would love to rearrange the calendar a little bit and see what would have happened if Ford versus Ferrari in 1917 had swapped places. What would happen if 1917 comes out in the fall and people are really into it, but then it kind of fades a little bit,

and then maybe Ford versus Ferrari is the Christmas dad movie that everybody goes to as a family during the holidays and gets a little bit more momentum. I don't think that that movie probably ever was in real contention given the quality of the year. But I would love to have played a couple of what ifs out with this. Well, it's ironic that that movie has been dismissed as the kind of old world dad

kind of movie that the Academy is quote unquote moving on from only for 1917 to really slide right into its place. I mean, it's functionally they're doing the same thing. Welcome to the brave new world of movies. Yes, exactly.

It looks like World War I. I want to talk about one more awards that happened over the weekend, but I don't want you guys to talk about it at all. So please allow me to monologue briefly about the Annie Awards, which took place over the weekend. These are, of course, the animation awards. I mentioned how predictable all this stuff is right now at the Oscars. Apparently, the best animation feature is not predictable

because a movie called Claws 1 for best animated feature at the Annie's, I know neither of you have seen it. I don't want to hear your commentary. I saw the title card on Netflix. Is it about Santa Claus or something with claws? It's about legal documents. It's like several clauses in those documents.

Oh, like Better Call Saul. No, it's not. It's about Santa Claus. All right. What does Santa Claus get up to in Claws? I'm not going to recap Claus here. I'm just trying to show interest. There's no chance of doing that.

Did Deacons work on Claus? Yeah. Yeah. He shot it. Yeah, he shot the whole thing. Well, he drew all of it. It is hand-drawn, which is notable. Not that you guys care.

In the indie film category at the Annie's, I lost my body one, which was also nominated for Best Animated Feature. So, no consensus here. And Toy Story 4 did not win, which is what I thought previously was going to win best animated feature at the Oscars. TBD. You're looking at me blankly,

which is what I wanted out of this segment. Okay. Thank you very much to both of you guys. Should we go to stock up, stock down? Let's do it. If it goes bust, you can make 10 to 1, even 20 to 1 return.

And it's already slowly going bust. So let's talk quickly about the box office. Bad Boys for Life, huge damn hit. Like a mega hit. In fact, Bad Boys, they're back. They are the backest they've been in a long time. And I'm trying to figure out why. and i can't totally figure it out even though i like the movie and we talked about it last week with shay it's very fun and very effective it's not significantly different

from a lot of other franchises like this that they've tried to bring back now in a lot of the recaps of the box office this week people have have noted that Terminator, Men in Black, also a Will Smith vehicle, and Charlie's Angels did not work. I still have not seen the Charlie's Angels movie, so I can't testify as to why that's the case.

The Terminator movie is okay. It's not bad. It's definitely not as good as Bad Boys for Life, but it's not bad. Men in Black International is apocalyptically bad. It was not good.

But still, like like this is just, it's retread territory. So why did this one work in the other, other stuff? I do have a theory. There is one thing that's different,

which is Bad Boys for Life is about Will Smith and Martin Lawrence and their chemistry. And it's about people as it is, much as it is about like the actual franchise.

Like the IP is, in a way, those two humans. Right. So, and that's rare. You don't get that many things where it's like, oh, I love seeing that guy and I still have a connection to that guy and I would like to go see him. So.

Is there another franchise out there in the world like that that you'd want to revive that is more focused on the people and not on, you know, because there's no mythology behind Mike Lowry. You know, we're not, we don't need to dig into the Silmarillion of Mike Lowry. Well, there is now, but. That's true. The movie does create that. That's a good point. There's a witch in this movie, right? Yeah.

I haven't seen it. La Bruja. Yes, there is. Played by Kate Del Castillo. Do you know what she's most famous for? She's the Sean Penn woman. She's the woman who Sean Penn and El Chapo, they broke bread. Yes, she led Sean Penn to El Chapo.

Yes. Which is one of the best things that's happened this century that was absolutely incredible it was great when sean leaned over to me during bad boys for life and was like that's the woman who took a sean penn to el chapo she was his el chapo fixer she truly was i mean she's obviously an actress in her own right who has done a great many things but um that's who she'll always be to me except now she's elbruja she's la bruja and uh turns in a strong performance in the movie um 1917 obviously doing well at the box office do little surprisingly did not die this weekend it actually did okay kids love it like you suggested

i suppose i just people have to take their kids to see animals talking that's my understanding of parenthood in a nutshell. Wow. That's troubling. That's troubling for all the parents around the world. The reason that Chris is here in the room is because of the next film. Oh, I thought I was here to talk to you about the Downey appearance on Rogan. Well, you can speak on that for a bit if you like. He speaks very highly of Doolittle on that. I watched that appearance. Of the Doolittle IP or of this film? Of Stephen Gagin and his work on Syriana. And that's what drew him to the Doolittle IP or of this film? Of Stephen Gagin and his work in Syria on Syriana and that's what drew him to the Doolittle story. Reportedly,

Stephen Gagin had some troubles on the set of Doolittle. Did he? Yes, that's what I heard. He couldn't work with penguins? It was a problem. I think he struggled

with the concept of humans interacting with digital animation. Didn't he write the screenplay? Yes, he did. Okay. Nevertheless, making movies like this is hard.

You guys may mock me for my interest in animation but it's not easy. I don't think we're mocking the effort that goes into animation. We're mocking the idea that it's as meaningful as movies that are about real people. I think sometimes you do mock it. I mean, it's all in the game. Yeah. Chris, you're here to talk about The Gentleman.

I sure am. Went and saw this last week by myself. I'll say, i've been thinking about having a segment about this movie and trying to figure out what's the right way to couch this segment because if i'm being honest the movie is very regressive kind of racist and pretty stupid however i really really liked it and i don't really know how to reconcile that but i was hoping that we could talk about it because this is of course guy ritchie's new movie after being in the in the ip gulag for the last five years making a king arthur movie and then the aladdin

film and sherlock and before that and sherlock holmes films for years before that this is the return to the kind of lock stock and two and two smoking barrels, snatch, the original rock and roll, the British gangster movies that he made his name on that I really like and also know to be stupid, but also think are wonderfully stylish and entertaining and weird. And they're the kind of smart, dumb movies that I really wish there actually were more of. What did you guys think of The Gentleman? You guys are looking at me you know I really really enjoyed myself during this movie it's strange how unlike a Guy Ritchie movie it is in it's filmmaking it's essentially

almost like a stage play there's like lots of long two person dialogue scenes that are very dense like I can tell that I've become way too dependent on subtitles on all of my television and Netflix viewing because I was like what the fuck is he saying dense like i can tell that i've become way too dependent on subtitles on all all of my television and netflix viewing because i was like what the fuck is he saying uh but it features some of the

wildest performances from famous people that i've seen in a really long time most notably hugh grant um and is about a lot of stuff that i'm very interested in like british tabloid journalism and the international drug trade and Michelle Dockery being a Cockney gangster mall who also has her own car detailing shop. For women. For women, yes.

It's a car detailing shop. Key distinction. Yes, for women. That must be a booming business. Yeah. I thought it was like really entertaining. I thought that it just

really lacked a lot of the filmmaking panache that you would expect Guy Ritchie to bring to something like that it felt like a little tired in that sense like i'm sorry i was like where's like you're slowing down the film and then like throwing the camera on the other side of the room and then going back in time and we did some of that stuff but most of it was in the screenplay what did you what did you think i would say that i spent 35 of this movie imagining you chris Ryan, doing the voice work of the various characters. Well, Colin Farrell, Hugh Grant.

Can you do a Charlie Hunnam? I have a real... Well, Charlie Hunnam... I would like to know what Charlie Hunnam was kind of aiming for there. Because is he Irish? No, he's English. Okay. No, I think he was going for...

This isn't country specific, but it's performance specific. I think he was going for like a Robert Duvall-esque I am even keeled throughout this entire film. Except when he puts on the voice of British Rude Boys at the council estate when he starts shooting his Uzi off. Yes.

I guess that's a spoiler of some kind. I enjoyed that sequence quite a bit. I have to say, and I am a great fan of Charlie Hunnam and I relate to his character from Triple Frontier the most of any kind. I enjoyed that sequence quite a bit. I have to say, and I am a great fan of Charlie Hunnam and I relate to his character from Triple Frontier the most of any character.

What was his character's name? I don't remember, but he chokes... Hot blonde? Yeah, well, also... Other hot blonde? He's the person who chokes someone out

in a Publix because they wouldn't move their shopping cart. He has PTSD. That's true. You relate to him because you also have PTSD or just because you choke people out at supermarkets?

Specifically, publics can get quite fraught. If you're from the South, you know. I feel that he's always doing weird voice work. He kind of always thinks he's in a Shakespearean play. And I think it's something about his actual, like the projection of his voice, that it's always really booming and kind of controlled in a strange way in movies. I felt that in Lost City of Z also. So I don't really think he's- He often has like the-

Making contextual choices. The guy playing a guy playing another guy, to quote Robert Downey Jr. from Tropic Thunder. He's like, I'm a British man who's pretending to be American who's playing a role of a British man. Yes. But it's like gone, it's like pinged at a satellite on the other side of the world and then come back. All that being said, I thought he was quite good in this movie.

And definitely this movie needed someone like him because everyone else is like, I'm working at scale, so I'm going to do whatever I want. That's exactly where I wanted to go with this conversation. So there's an enormous amount of famous people in this movie. Matthew McConaughey, you already mentioned Hugh Grant. Matthew McConaughey thinks he is in a Lincoln commercial this entire movie. He just sits there drinking scotch going,

the king of the jungle is the lion unless he's also the lioness. This movie also features Henry Golding, Crazy Rich Asians. Yes.

Now star, I suppose, though perhaps not after this movie and Last Christmas. Maybe things are not going as well for Henry Golding as we would have liked. Last Christmas made a lot of money in the UK.

Yeah. Okay. Just FYI. So I think he's still hanging on. So then he's doing fine. And frankly, my absolute favorite Colin Farrell thing in a long time. So good. Who I guess plays, how can we describe his character?

An Irish boxing coach who has a gym somewhere in London, who I thought, although I could be, I'm sure some eagle-eyed listener will point me out that I'm wrong. I thought he was wearing a Red Bull Salzburg tracksuit the entire movie, but it could be like a Kappa, like just usual British streetwear brand,

but is dressed like a guy who wears British streetwear from 1988. Yes. And has an incredible scene in a chippy where he beats up four guys using vinegar, mostly. It's just like an incredible performance from him. But in the way that McConaughey is kind of- He dresses like he's in Run DMC in this movie.

It's head to toe tartan plaid jumpsuit. It's a very strange. And frankly, I think he's pulling the look off. I think he looks actually weirdly good. The hat's not so much. I just started giggling just now because i was imagining chris in the outfit which that was my other dude if i could pull up wearing a tartan plaid right now okay um he it's a very strange character he's the kind of guy who like you think was in the mafia at some point or was just an enforcer at some point but and has been drawn back into the

game really all about clean living now but i don't really know yeah um and then there's you grant yeah so hugh grant plays the aforementioned tabloid journalist amanda you're a hugh grantologist i am how do you feel about him inserting himself into this rough and tumble world i it's great for him i think it's what he wants he wants. Hugh Grant is famously ill at ease with his romantic comedy then he's been typecast as the rom-com lead for 20 years and would really rather just be an actor and be saying wild stuff in a Guy Ritchie movie. And I thought the voice was a choice, but I was pleased that he seemed to be having so much fun and, you know, good for him. The combination of his and Jeremy Strong's fluid sexuality was a lot in this movie. It was a real choice on the part of all the people here.

Did it ignite something in you? No, but I was just like, I feel like I'm watching like a Bruckheimer Simpson movie from the like 1994, as did the lot of Mirabak signage in this movie. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, did this movie like just get shelved? And then like they didn't take a look at it

until it came out? Was it shot in 2005 and then it just like... Well, I think it was independently financed in 2018 in part by Miramax, which is not the Miramax

that we know of old. Obviously, it has changed hands a few times now. And STX bought it last year for kind of... for a song, I think for like $7 million.

Okay. So this is a movie with Matthew McConaughey and Colin Farrell and Hugh Grant and Charlie Hunnam and Henry Golding and Michelle Dockery, like six really famous people and also six people in the UK who are very famous for $7 million,

which means they made it pretty cheaply, which might be why it doesn't have the whiz bang that you expect. Sure, but it's not like lock stock was made for a ton of money, right? No, it's true, it's true. But maybe, I don't know, maybe Guy is just luxuriating

at this stage of his career. Last time I spoke to him on this show, he seemed to be essentially one of his characters. He seemed to have evolved. I think he was wearing a tweed suit that had been tailored just so he's a muscular gentleman sort of sort of like compact powerful and having a conversation with him is kind of like having a conversation with one of mcconaughey's like right

hand men okay um so maybe he was just making a documentary about his car detailing sure good for him um it's a very weird movie it feels like a very not 2020 movie no that was the one thing was just making a documentary about his car detailing. Sure. Good for him. It's a very weird movie. It feels like a very not 2020 movie. No. That was the one thing that really sticks out to me about it.

Did this movie make any money this weekend? It made $11 million, which is okay. Shout out to STX. It's probably not what you want with this kind of star power.

It's also like a hard movie to recommend. I don't imagine they have like huge expectations for a movie like this in this day and age. Because it's pretty unabashedly like you know, gruff. You know, it's not like

Ocean's Eleven where it's like, oh, these guys are being so charming. They're like swearing in Cockney for two hours. Yeah, it essentially opens also with the character getting his head blown off while enjoying a pint and blood splashing into a beer, which I saw as the really like low rent version

of the Pepto Bismol going into the whiskey in First Reformed. That was the like starter kit version of that imagery. That's probably what he's thinking of then, yeah. Do you think Guy Ritchie has seen First Reformed? Probably not. That's too bad. Yeah.

I wish we were talking about First Reformed this year. That's just a real shame that we're not. Though, I mean, that didn't have a great amount of Oscars either. So it's like, we would still be disappointed. How many Amandas did you give that out of five gentlemen? Gentlemen? Wow. Did you just invent a rating system? Yeah. Because sometimes Amanda's like, she's a little opaque, you know, and I need to know just hard facts. I think it's probably like a three out of five. I think I had, Sean and I went together and that was fun and I had a nice

time. I like all of those people. I thought that when it was funny, it was funny. And when it was racist or politically incorrect, it was self-aware. And I agree with you. It wasn't like a memorable piece of filmmaking, but sometimes you just want to go to the movies and have fun with famous people. It struck me as the kind of movie that isn't actually racist or misogynist or any of these things, but is also very romantic about a time when movies could be that. And that seemed to be what he was trying to capture.

To me, it is like the movie version of the comedian. You can't say this anymore, but blah, blah, blah. Like the acknowledging the, I don't want to get canceled or everyone gets canceled now, but I'm just putting it in a movie. Right, but not even in like an intellectually curious Dave Chappelle way where he's like, let me see if I can really get under the skin of everybody and the way that they feel about this.

It was just like, I'm just going to say things that you're not supposed to say. It was better when we were able to make movies right after Pulp Fiction. And that was it. Yeah, exactly. It did have that feel. Any lingering thoughts? No. I mean, we'll be talking about this one for 12 months to come. Which voice do you think that you can do I actually can't do Cockney thanks for asking so I my dad did an amazing Cockney accent and I just could never pick it up I could probably do Colin Farrell but I can't remember any of his lines off the top of my head but I'll I'll workshop it okay thank you that's really disappointing that

you came here with nothing prepared I'm not a circus animal you know like I have thoughts I have takes you know I'm not here to just like, oh, the monkey's on a unicycle. It's like, I know a lot about movies. The thing is, you're not a circus animal. You're a doolittle.

You can talk to the animals and you can talk to the English and Irish stars of Hollywood. My Irish, my Colin Farrell Irish accent from this movie would not differ at all from my Saoirse Ronan accent.

So I'm just saving us the time. Can you do Saoirse playing Matthew McConaughey's character in this film? Hold on. What does he say? He's like... The lion and the lioness? The law of the jungle is you're either the lion

or the lioness i but he i don't even know if he says that that was good thank you chris that was worth it thank you bono sorsha sorsha and and and colin farrell same person same bit great let's go to the big race well mama look at me now. I'm a star. I don't really want to talk about any of the Oscar races. I want to talk about Sundance. Amanda, how are you finding it? It's good. I think we figured out the shuttles, as mentioned on the first podcast.

It got a lot more crowded, so that was interesting. It's very crowded here. It's very crowded. Many people. I'm kind of navigating how to get into things and trying i've just i spent a lot of time with that booklet just like my nose in the booklet looking at the times of all the movies and the maps and being like what can i do and what can i not do but it's fun i've seen some i've seen i have seen at least one movie that i thought was like

very good why don't you speak on it right now okay it's called shirley and it's directed by josephine decker and we talked about it a bit on the anticipated podcast. So we do know who Shirley Jackson is because Shirley Jackson wrote the lottery. Yes. Okay. Well, I, I had to put, I hadn't put that together in my head. And then some between when we did the podcast and when we, when I went to see this movie. Famed American 20th century short story writer. Yes. But the lottery is kind of the first thing that happens in the movie. And the most basic description of the movie, which I'm really not going to try to spoil, is that it's about Shirley Jackson writing a novel and kind of where she gets her inspiration. And this is a comparison that I thought in the head, and it actually has nothing to do with the plot. But if you're familiar with the book, The Secret History by Donna Tartt, that's a book that is set at Bennington College in Vermont and is about a group of literary academic people who get into some hijinks. And this movie is also set at Bennington College because Shirley Jackson's husband was a professor at Bennington College.

It's in the 60s and is about a similar literary crowd who gets into some hijinks. Hijinks is not the right word, but things get weird. And it is not an adaptation of The Secret History in any way. But I was like, oh, cool. They figured out how to make The Secret History into a movie, but about women. That's interesting. And I really responded to it. It's also just excellent filmmaking,

great performances from Elizabeth Moss all the way down. It was fun. I was excited to see it. I liked it too. I didn't love it. I liked it. It's very, it's in the tradition of Decker's other movies, which is very claustrophobic,

very intimate on every actor's face all the time. And I was unfortunately, and this is really one of the vagaries of Sundance. And this is not a complaint. vagaries of Sundance. And I'm not a complain. It's really my fault, but I got there a little bit late, right before the movie was about to start. And I sat in the front row. When you sit in the front row, looking up at a movie that is shot this claustrophobically, it's really disorienting and it's really, it overwhelms the experience in some way. So I look forward to seeing it again,

not looking straight up into the sky through Elizabeth Moss's nostrils. Yes, they do spend a lot of time on her face and its various anxieties and issues. I did think that this movie, without spoiling anything, had an absolutely incredible ending. Yeah. Just an awesome ending. Chris, you seen anything? Yeah, you know, I saw a horror film that I liked a lot called The Night House the other night. It stars Rebecca Hall. saw a horror film that i liked a lot called the night house the other night uh it stars rebecca hall it's directed by david bruckner who did a movie called the ritual which came out on netflix about a year year and a half ago and uh the thing that jumped out at me there's some really great

scares in it it's basically about um a woman grieving uh the after the suicide of her husband and sort of trying to piece together the mystery of his life in this house that they have on a lake in upstate new york and it's very atmospheric. And Rebecca Hall does some really incredible stuff in this movie. I won't get too into the twists and turns of it. I would recommend it for people who are horror fans, especially. But I did notice that we always talk about this, the underappreciated middle ground of movies, like these genre movies that Hollywood doesn't really make anymore.

So maybe they'll start winding up more on these streaming services or they go to television. And this was a movie that I did feel like was trying to do like three of those genres at once. You know, there was a time where I think this movie would have been much more straight up scary or much more straight up a thriller. And this woman trying to like kind of investigate her husband's past. But it almost it almost felt like a product of like, wow, I can't believe we got to make this movie. Let's bring all of this stuff in. Let's bring like the Pacific Heights element in,

but also bring in the shining element and also bring in some like incredibly intense jump scares and screaming and loud score. So it was an interesting experiment in seeing where genre movies are kind of at right now to see it at Sundance like this. Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing that one um i saw a movie this morning that i it's definitely the best thing i've seen so far it's called dick johnson is dead it's a

documentary would not would literally not be shocked if we were talking about it at best documentary a year from now it's made by a woman named kirsten johnson who's a long time um cinematographer for documentaries she made a documentary in 2015 called Camera Person, which many people say is one of the best documentaries of the last 10 years, but is much more impressionistic. It doesn't have really

a narrative through line. The idea of this movie is her essentially documenting the waning years of her father's life. That sounds very grim and gruesome. This is one of the funniest and most exciting and inspiring movies I've seen in a long time.

The way that she chooses to talk about these ideas with her father and then consistently put her father in situations that would provoke emotion is so interesting and unusually peppy but also insightful and

heart-rending and all the other things that you want a movie like this to be. It's also 89 minutes, which is magnificent. It's a perfect runtime, and it's going to be on Netflix in two months. And it is a little bit of a, like, this is what documentaries can be. They don't just have to be these stodgy, deeply serious, kind of like archival-driven. Like, there is a huge, like a wave of creativity in the movie that I'm just not used to seeing. So I would highly recommend that

to everybody who watches movies on Netflix when it comes out in a couple of months. Any other Sundance thoughts that you want to share? You got a good look at the ski lift. Yeah, the chairlift. I've been walking by it a lot and I still have not ridden it.

Although there was a very kind person who listened to our podcast and said that I shouldn't be afraid and I shouldn have not written it. Although there was a very kind person who listened to our podcast and said that I shouldn't be afraid and I shouldn't listen to you and I should buy a pass and go on the chairlift and then I could see on the other side of the hill.

You deserve it. To the mountains beyond. That sounds like the sequel to the movie Chris was just describing where you are murdered on a chairlift. A woman finds herself on the other side of the mountain. Do you remember the movie Frozen

before there was a Frozen Disney movie? When they're stuck in the ski lift and they're like wolves waiting for them. Do you know about this movie? No, but you know what? I did once get- You actually might like this one. When I went to visit Disney World as a child,

we got stuck in one of those like gondola rides that goes over Disney World for like an hour and a half. So I don't want to do that again. Maybe that's your PTSD. I guess so. No, but I'm fascinated by. So I don't want to do that again. Maybe that's your PTSD. I guess so. No, but I'm fascinated by them. I want to be a part of it. It's just, it's so close to the town.

It looks like such a fun ride. Chris, are you getting into any other fun journeys here at Sundance? No, I've had a little bit of a hard time acclimatizing. Oh, really? Yeah, like my, I feel like I'm out of breath frequently, which is weird. I stopped smoking such a long time ago. Have you been greeting the people in the street,

all of the fans of The Watch and the Ringer NBA show? Are you messing with me? No. There's some great fans out for all the Ringer products. Yeah. It's been really nice

to talk to them. And what do you say to them? You shake their hand? And I say, what's your name? What brings you to Sundance? And then what, you slink away quickly?

Like, what's your next move? Do you engage them in conversation? I say, would you like to go get a meal with me has anyone

quoted your famed moment from the Skyfall podcast in which you called yourself the best nobody no one said that nobody yet

okay no but people were really cool they have a lot of rewatchables and big pic fans and watch fans thanks to everybody

at Sundance who has checked out what we're doing here really appreciate it Amanda and I will be back later this week talking about all the great stuff to everybody at Sundance who has checked out what we're doing here. Really appreciate it. Amanda and I will be back later this week talking about all the great stuff

we saw at Sundance and God willing some new news on the Oscars front. I wouldn't hold your breath but you know. You guys got to do something to create the news.

Like what can you do? You got to take Sam Mendes down a peg. Like you want us to assassinate him? No but it's like the I don't know. Then he'll definitely win.

You got to do something. You got to do something. You got to keep it fresh for yourself. The shop's open, man. Give us some ideas. You're the creativity guy. I'll take a gondola ride tonight

and I'll think. I'll have a good think on it. Chris Amanda, thanks for chatting here with us. big picture is brought to you by at&t reminding you that when it comes to wireless networks just okay is not okay