The Big Picture - Hollywood Is Broken. Let’s Start a Movie Studio.

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

With no new movies hitting the box office this weekend, Sean and Amanda are instead building their own fantasy movie studio from scratch—directors, stars, writers, IP, studio locations, and more (1:00). Later in the show, Chris Ryan joins to help explain the uniqueness of ‘In a Violent Nature’ (1:22:00), before Sean is joined by the director of the film, Chris Nash, to discuss making it (1:34:00). To watch episodes of ‘The Big Picture,’ head to https://www.youtube.com/@RingerMovies. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Chris Ryan and Chris Nash Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, The Town, on the Ringer Podcast Network. My name's Matt Bellany. I'm a founding partner at Puck and the writer of the What I'm Hearing newsletter. And with my show, The Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. Every week, we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about. We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight, which streamer is on the brink of collapse, and which executive is on the hot seat. Disney, Netflix, who's up, down,

and who will never eat lunch in this town again. Follow The Town on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit Superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessey.

I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about some other stuff, because no movies came out over the weekend. Later in this episode, I'll be joined by Chris Nash, the writer-director behind In a Violent Nature, which is easily one of the most compelling horror movies of 2024. First feature, it effectively asks and answers the question, what if Terrence Malick directed a Friday the 13th movie?

What do you think would happen, Amanda? Great shit? Let me tell you. Yeah, things that you and someone else who may or may not appear on this podcast are excited about. We may or may not have a special guest chat for 10 minutes maybe about In a Violent Nature, explain to you what else is going on in the film.

But I hope people will stick around for my conversation with Chris Nash. Very exciting filmmaker, very cool guy, great conversation. But first we all know the movie business is, uh, is not doing very well. And, uh, we've been saying for weeks now, when will they fix this months now? When will they fix this years now? When will they fix this? So we've decided to, uh, take it upon ourselves to fix it. We've decided to, to, to launch a pair of movie studios, Your first movie studio, your first big venture. Baby's first studio. Yeah. I'll be launching one as well. So we're

already like the we is already doing a lot of work here. And I have a lot of questions about this exercise as we go through it. Okay. And what you intend by it and also what your you know intentions are i intend to reveal the soul which is what i think we do on every episode of this show so i'm very excited about that um we did this actually for a streaming service back during the pandemic when everyone was starting their own streaming services which turned out great everybody just launched them okay they all went well the business is in a great place and streaming has done wonders for Hollywood. Everybody seems to be really on the right track.

So hopefully we'll be able to help them out here. Show them how to do this properly. They can start new studios. We can close the old ones. I'm really excited about it. But there has been some news in Hollywood since we last spoke. I mean, yes and no. To me, there's some important news for me.

There have been developments. I mean, yes and no. To me, there's some important news for me. There have been developments. Yeah. And also a newsworthy lack of developments in some cases. So last Friday, no new major studio films opened wide. That was tough. In the last weekend of May. Yeah, it was bad.

Obviously, there were strikes. There's a diminishment of product out in the world, but it's a weird weekend to skip. I was talking with two friends who had a Saturday night free, and they had childcare, and they didn't have any plans. And they were like, what should we do? And they asked me, are there any movies that we should see? And they've already seen Challengers, so the answer was no. I was just kind of like, I don't know what to tell you.

I was there in an ambassador position. In theory, this is what you were born to do. Right, and they also didn't want to go see the Fall Guy, which is fine. It's not their taste. Not Furiosa fans? Not Mad Max fans? You know, I would not even think to suggest that to them. Okay, okay.

It's a little mean-spirited. Here's one thing I will say, is in all of the coverage, I do think that we have underestimated the nicheness of Furiosa. Of course, yeah. So this was a case where I didn't think Furiosa was their niche. Right. Understood. That makes sense.

There you go. So they didn't see a film. No. And frankly, many people didn't see films. They went to a lovely restaurant called Barra Santos, which I also recommend. So in that sense, Amanda Concierge Services are alive and well. Interesting. How is that new business working out thus far?

That's like, that's how you offload from the big picture long term by just telling people restaurants to go to? Oh, you mean, oh, I thought you were asking me how Barra Santos is going. And I was like, well, they don't take reservations, but it's like, seems like it's always packed. So it's good for them. My, you know, my business, what's nice about it is that it's on my own terms. And so I work what I want to, and I don't really answer to anyone. And how is that different from the ringer? Or literally anything else that I do in life. Yeah. See, but it's important to have goals and

then to work towards them. So ADCS is this company, Amanda Dobbins Concierge Services. I don't really like that. I'm going to think of another name. Okay. I'll speak with some consulting firms. That just sounds a little bit too much like ALCS, you know? Understood. The American League Championship Series? Right. Yes. Well, I've watched some of them in my day. You did go see Garfield, though.

Have you seen Garfield yet? I haven't seen it. Okay. I haven't seen it. I don't really want to take Alice to that. That's fine. I don't want to take Knox to it either. We're holding out for Inside Out 2.

Oh, that's nice. Is she going to come? No, it's too late. No, it's too late. Yeah. But fortunately, I've secured a ticket for Saturday, June 15th, and we will go. Oh, that's very cute. Yeah, very exciting times.

Knox isn't quite ready. We had a setback with taking Knox to the movies. The volume of the movies and also the introduction was sort of an issue. I think it was the film you chose. No, he loves it. He's watched. Can I tell you something amazing? So my dad and stepmom came to stay with Knox while Zach and I went on our wonderful trip, which was very lucky. I'm very grateful to them as well as our nanny and everyone else who looked after Knox. And Knox is on A Real Sound of Music Kick and keeps watching it. And my dad, who raised me, confessed to me. He was like, I got to tell you, this is the first time I sat all the way through Sound of Music.

And I was like, well, I have some thoughts about your parenting. But then he was like, I loved it. Really good no you can't you can't really trust that opinion that's like me being like wish is good you know it's like he watched Knox enjoy it in your monologue which I thought was wonderful you did like try to bring wish into like the conversation as a like accepted part of the of the good canon of movies and i was like it's a part of the history of disney the 100 year storied history that was a major theatrical event i was there yeah i didn't try i did it i achieved i added the film to the canon and i feel great about it uh didn't see garfield it was number one at the box office this weekend. Number two was what? If? If. If overtook Furiosa in its third

week of release. I think you mean Bleu and company. Bleu has risen and Furiosa has fallen to third place. Yeah. Which is not great. Furiosa and Garfield have made less than $50 million in 10 days, which is just not very good. Obviously, we know what's going on. We've been talking about it. I think things are going to be fine, actually, in June and July. That's one of my takes. Okay.

I think there's going to be a little bit of a bounce back. And the nicheness that you described of Furiosa is accurate. I think the flimsiness of the Garfield property is accurate. You know, like the Fall guy actually had a good box office weekend despite being on VOD. Right. What does that mean? I do think it means that the VOD panic is like...

Overstated? Well, I think it is... I understand why the theaters panic about it. Yeah. And it's like, I get it. And that's tough for you guys. But there are a lot of problems in your business that I can't really do anything about about did you see i included a question about this in our studio building oh the windowing yeah yeah i did because this is an important part of the future of movies um but you know i do think

that fall guy in particular there is an audience for it that is just at home right now because they're over the age of 35. I just like, here we all are, here I am. And that doesn't overlap with the audience that still goes to the movie theaters. There, there are just some logistical functional things. So from a studio perspective, if you can find a way to serve all your audiences, that does make some money. Granted, have we trained everyone to expect to come out, blah, blah, blah? Like, sort of, but also, like, I don't know what to tell you about that. What percentage of the PVOD buying audience of the film The Fall Guy is parents with children under the age of 10? Probably a very large amount.

Like 50%? Yes. Like a lot, right? Yeah, but they're all, I mean, it is Ryan Gosling and Emily Blunt, two like 40-ish actors. Parentally aged, yes. You know, if you listen to our wonderful podcast, The Town with Matt Bellamy, the producer, Craig Horlbeck, just interrupting the conversation to be like, they're old when they were talking about that movie. That just like echoes in my head.

Craig is 29 and he was just like, they're old, what are you going to do? So I do think that matters. And I think their peers are at home with young children. I just want to say, you know, Paul Newman, when he made the film Slapshot, he was 52 years old. Okay.

And Slapshot is a, was a rip roaring good time enjoyed by men and women, young and old. Yeah. Okay. You don't have to be 27 to be appealing in a film. Let's, let's this ageism from the man who brought you 35 under 35 movie stars.

I must tell you, is appalling. I agree with you. And Craig, how dare you? I agree with you entirely. But I am also very aware of the fact that most people our age cannot get to the movie theater on opening weekend for less than 200 bucks. Okay. So I understand why they're waiting for VOD. And maybe it's good to meet them where they are.

Speaking of old bastards in movies, there's a trailer for the film Wolfs. Yeah, I just watched it. W-O-L-F-S. Yes. Brad Pitt and George Clooney are the stars of this film. Absolutely, they are. They're extremely old.

I like them both. They're great movie stars. What'd you think of the trailer? Absolutely, is what I have to say to this. So this is a film about two independent contractors two cleanup men two michael claytons who make problems go away yes for very powerful people they both get hired for the same job and so they meet and they interact and they and hijinks into i have a crazy night out two beautiful men having a crazy night out

it's like me and CR getting dinner. You think this will be good? I think I will enjoy it immensely. I don't know if it will like fully achieve the heights of the two of them sitting next to each other in silence until Clooney's like, you think we need one more? We need one more.

Okay, we'll get one more. But it's going for that. And I appreciate it that someone understands that that's what I want to see on a movie screen for two hours. So not since Burn After Reading have they been in a film together. And of course, their work in the Three Oceans films. This is directed by John Watts, who, you know, has actually made some comic book movies that you like. Yes. He's directed all three of the most recent Tom Holland Spider-Man films. He also directed an indie 10 years ago called Cop Car.

It's an interesting test of his skills, John Watts, who has basically been fully subsumed by the superhero machine and is attempting to break free and hopefully make original movies like this. Do you think Harvey Keitel will make an appearance in this film? You know why I'm asking that. Why are you asking that? Because it's, you know, a wolf.

Sure. Is Winston Wolf the fixer in Pulp Fiction? Okay. You know, that's clearly one of the inspirations for this character.

So do you think there will be a sly cameo from Winston Wolf or Keitel? I have no idea. Okay. Thanks for not playing along. Really great.

I mean, I was like, what do you mean? What a pleasure to do this with you. I already did the Oceans references. That's where my mind goes when you watch this. We haven't even gotten to the Venom trailer yet. I need you to just buck up.

Do you think Harvey Keitel will be in this? I hope so. Okay. I love the man. I love his work. Like, all respect to Harvey Keitel. George Clooney and Brad Pitt together is enough for me. Will Matt Damon show up in this for five minutes?

King of the cameo? It would be great if he came in as Linus. I would enjoy that. I think Linus is some of his best work. This movie comes out September 20th, which, you know, not typically the best release date. Doesn't indicate a lot of strength in a title. But what date indicates a lot of strength? Well, it's a fair point.

It's a very fair point. No dates. The day the beekeeper came out, whatever day that was, January 14th, I think. That was a good day. Otherwise, yeah, hard to say. What do we got coming up? Oh, we got Bad Boys 4? You're into that?

I'm going to see it for the purposes of this podcast. Did you know Will Smith slapped a man on stage at the Oscars? You know what? I was watching. That was, it was, and not just a man, Chris Rock. I remember that. And Chris Rock has been dining out on it ever since. What a moment.

Yeah. What a moment. Wouldn't you? I don't know whether I would, actually. You'd pretend it never happened? I might try, I might just like emoji shrug and let it go, you know? Is that a fact? I find that hard to believe I mean I just

and let Will Smith you know bear out the consequences of it by himself you know Smith bias is showing which no no I mean I everything that has happened to Will Smith since the slap is like maybe worse that it's not it's not's not. You can't slap one on stage. I think he's fine. No, but that speech was absolutely awful. Then the video of just being like, I have to get in touch with my own trauma and then whatever the hell he's doing.

That is not what I want from Will Smith. That is really, really tough. And that to me is embarrassing. So if Chris Rock could just like, just, you know, be like, I'm Chris Rock. I'm fine. I have to say, I do have some empathy for Will Smith because the monologue about the box

office that I recorded last week was me getting in touch with my own trauma. So I can understand where he's coming from. Um, and I hope, I hope that whatever Jade is doing, which is whatever they're doing together is it's a lot, you know, and I really just want him to be doing men in black again as he he did that at a recent festival remember he came out yeah he did and he did the walk with me you know that's really all i need okay but he hasn't been doing that no he's he's reuniting with martin lawrence we'll talk about that film uh not this week but next week after it comes out venom the last dance i don't know what to say other than I can't fucking wait.

I just cannot believe I've got not one, not two, not three, not four, but five individual text messages from friends that just read, Venom trailer dropped. Are you okay? And I got to say,

I'm just very excited. I'm really proud of Tom Hardy. I'm looking forward to Kelly Marcel's directorial debut. It just looks like a beautiful conclusion to the Venom trilogy. I watched the trailer on my computer

with you sitting next to me, not watching the trailer and just providing your own sort of your commentary. Yeah, mirth. Which was just you giggling and being like Venom! And that... Venom! I mean, it's great. That I will pay money to see in a movie theater.

That was really good. I appreciated your enthusiasm. The trailer itself did not mean very much to me. Hope that plane's okay. I didn't know that Chiwetel Ejiofor and Juno Temple are in this film. Continuing the long history of talented actors like Riz Ahmed and Michelle Williams appearing in Venom films. Sure. You know, just... We're eating. We're eating and Michelle Williams appearing in Venom films. Sure. You know, just we're eating.

We're eating today. Okay. The Venom heads are biting heads off all across the land this morning. We're very excited. It's going to be a great day. Solo pod? No, I'll see it. Okay.

I guess. Is it coming out on like the special October weekend? I think it's actually the third week of October. Not the first. Historically, remember the greatest day in movie history, A Star is Born and Venom. I do remember that. October 5th, 2019. One of the greatest days of our lives.

Was it 2019? No. 2018. Okay. Yeah, 2018. Yeah. It was great. It can be great again.

What will be the A Star is Born doubleheader on that day? Let's take a quick look before we get into our studio building. So this year, Venom the Last Dance is releasing on October 25th. Okay. Kind of getting in the Halloween zone. It really is. Well,

there's something frightening about Venom. He is after all an alien symbiote. You know? Yeah. He touches our, really what, what all, an alien symbiote. You know? Yeah. He touches really what lurks in our soul. Okay. He captures something deep and mysterious.

Right. About the human experience. Yes. Would you agree? Yes, based on what you've told me. It doesn't appear to be any other wide release films that weekend. I think because they're fucking scared of Venom. Okay.

Or because they don't have any movies. Venom has got their number. Eddie Brock is going to dominate. When are all the horror movies coming out? Earlier? Well, Smile 2 is October 18th. Okay. What happened in Smile 1?

Did they smile? I'll tell you what, there was trauma. There was some trauma and it needed to be resolved. Oh, good. And they resolved it. So I was mixed on it.

It was a huge hit. Okay. It was one of the biggest hits of that year. Great. We also have Terrifier 3 on October 11th, which I'm mixed on it. It was a huge hit. It was one of the biggest hits of that year. Great. We also have Terrifier 3 on October 11th which I'm looking forward to. And of course Joker Folio 2. Oh

of course. On October 4th. Yeah. So should be a really fun month of normal movies. Next book club. Yeah. Got a question about this on x.com is that what it's called twitter.com I will be calling it twitter

I had a few ideas for recent books movie books that have come out throw them out I'll throw them out but I think your idea was the best one

thank you someone suggested that we do the new Stanley Kubrick movie which is written by Robert Kolker great journalist which is called Kubrick and Odyssey I haven't read this it was released in February I've read a lot the new Stanley Kubrick movie, which is written by Robert Kolker, great journalist.

Okay. Which is called Kubrick and Odyssey. I haven't read this. It was released in February. I've read a lot of books about Kubrick. Can't say I'm like ready. I need another one. I'm literally in the middle of The Shining book that Lee Unkrich wrote about the making of The Shining, which is like a $1,000 Toshin book. Right.

Which is wonderful, but it's 800 pages. But how many of them are pictures? None. What? There's like three different books in it. which is wonderful but it's 800 pages so but how many of them are pictures? none there's like three different books in it it's like the entire leather bound shooting script it's an entire

like 800 page book with like maybe there's some like images of like letters and notes but they're not really pictures right and then there's a third

I can't remember what the third thing is in the book that's maybe more of like a picture book okay but it is a a magnum opus of a making of book.

Like it puts all other making of books to shame. Anyway, this is another Kubrick book. I don't know if I want to read this. I just want to say, not the last time Bob Kolker is going to appear on this podcast. Oh, interesting. Yeah. You've got some literary property to talk about. Cool, very exciting.

We did never really talk about Ed Zwick's book, which is pretty juicy. Right. But I did also feel like he made the rounds. He did of he kind of gave away a lot of his best material I I don't specifically know what's up with Matthew Broderick's mother but I know that she was not portrayed well she uh I think was domineering on the set of the film Glory okay which is really important what you want to have is three white people really running the show there Matthew Broderick Ed Zwick and Matthew Broderick's mom. That book is hits, flops, and other illusions.

I've read about half of it. It's pretty fun. It's pretty cool. Yeah. I mean, I do like a dishy book. And then the third one I was thinking about was The Future Was Now, which is Chris Nashawati's book coming out in July, which is about the summer of 1982 and all the movies that came out.

And those movies include Blade Runner, Poltergeist, The Thing, E.T., The Road Warrior, Conan the Barbarian, a number of other movies. It's basically like this kind of invented modern movies this year. But as you pointed out, we've been talking about doing a Sidney Lumet episode. Yeah. For a long time now. He would have turned 100 years old at the end of this June. So I was thinking in July, we could do something where we talk about all of his movies. Right. And he, of course,

has a great book. Making Movies, which I suggested that we do and pair with this Annie Lumet episode. Yeah, which I think is a good idea. Okay. If you haven't read Making Movies, it's a super easy read. It's like 150 pages. And it's just like a very intimate, personal sort of philosophy slash memoir about how he works. And many, many, many, many, many directors over the years have read this book and returned to this book and think about this book when making their own films. So that's a good call. Let's do that. We'll do Sidney Lumet's Making Movies next. Okay. So the Let's Start a Movie Studio game. Right. Was this a good exercise? It was. I, you know, you just put a list of categories that we each need to fill to build our own studio.

But I had some questions about context and the world that we're entering into as studios. Does it necessitate me going through the categories or do you want to start with the context? No, let's start with the context. So really, where's the money coming from? Well, we have a number of resources in Riyadh and Dubai. Well, I mean, no, but this is my question. Am I responsible to shareholders or some mega conglomerate? This is a very good question. I'm glad you brought this up. Thank you.

The answer is no. Okay. What you have discovered is an independent multi-billionaire who loves films. Can I just be the independent multi-billionaire? No, that's not the game. You are responsible to the decision making. Okay. But you can believe that your taste will animate

the future of the business. That's really the game. But so my only, my financial responsibilities are just not to make the mega billionaire mad at me. Correct.

You need to make a slim profit. Okay. A slim profit is fine. But the mega billionaire does understand, is doing this for love of the game.

They are. Now, listen, I know this for a fact. There are many, many executives in Hollywood who listen to this podcast. Yes. I hear from them from time to time. God bless all of them. I really appreciate their feedback. They, in their heart of hearts, can't say to me what I know they think,

which is that we don't know what the fuck we're talking about. Right. This is our opportunity to show them how much we don't know what we're talking about or do. Because a lot of times you get access to this money, a new big production company starts, it goes on for three years, one movie loses $380 million and the billionaire is like, whoa. Well, that's why I'm asking. Like, so, you know, because also many of those executives, God bless them, are beholden to a shareholder report.

Yes, which I wish was not the case and was not always historically the case in Hollywood. Right, but that really changes the decisions that you're making. Our business is a private company. We are not held by a publicly traded company. This is a private business. Okay. But our only mandate is to make movies. We are not a streaming service. We are not making television shows. Okay. But our only mandate is to make movies. We are not a streaming service.

We are not making television shows. Okay. We are making movies. This is an old-fashioned Hollywood movie studio. That's the whole idea because that is something that is gone. The interconnectedness of all of these businesses in Hollywood is one of the reasons why the businesses are broken. But the other thing that we need to clarify in that is we're to make movies and it would be better to make money than lose money. Absolutely.

But we don't have to be making margins of $400 billion, which is the other part of being beholden to shareholders or a source of funding, which is there primarily for investment. This is investing in a love of funding, which is there primarily for investment. This is investing in, in a love of movies. It is. And also in the talent of filmmakers. Okay. Now there's a lot, I don't just mean directors.

I mean, writers, actors. This is like, every executive is just like, if you're driving, like has already driven off the road. Cause like,

this is total fantasy land. Absolutely. This is why I'm like, why can't I just be the billionaire? Well, we'll do that game next time. Cause then it's just like, this is total fantasy land. Absolutely. This is why I'm like, why can't I just be the billionaire? Well, we'll do that game next time. Because then it's just like, I can do whatever the fuck I want. Is this something you would do if you were a billionaire? I mean, if I had...

It's definitely not. You would just fucking go to Greece and just sit on the beach. I don't know. So, I guess I wouldn't start. You would be a patron of the arts? Well, I would. You know I would be. I know that you would be a patron of the arts well I would you know I would be I know that you would be

you know I would like you know try to solve some world problems that would like probably be my first thing um like Hillary Clinton does

she does not she just funnels the money to whatever did you see her tweets about Donald Trump's conviction get the fuck out of here it's just like what I have said.

I looked at them. Okay. No, I see, you know, like I would probably try to do some good in the world. And you're right that I would spend a lot of time in Greece. But I don't know that I would start a studio particularly because that is just like a lot of work and a lot of meetings and a lot of infrastructure. So I would probably just want to be like a producer. Yeah. You know, and this is what people do. Yeah. And I would like, and I would be the money, but I would expect to have a little bit more say than a usual money producer, which I'm sure is a nightmare to every single, you know, person in the world. But it's your money.

It's my money. And also, you know, that's what I want. So I don't know if I wouldn't really want to deal with all the meetings and the infrastructure here. I think it's possible that Amanda is a billionaire. What should we do is a good idea for an episode. But that's not this episode. And like performance reviews, you know? You're concerned about that?

And like expenses. Like I just, I don't want to deal with that bullshit. You know? We know. Trust me. Well,

for the sake of this conversation, you have to. Right. You are the CEO and the president of production of this new movie studio. And the intention is to make money

and to make great work. That's the idea. You don't have to make $20 billion. You don't have to make money and to make great work. That's the idea. You don't have to make $20 billion. You don't have to make 40x your profit, your budget. Right. But you got to keep your head above water. Otherwise, the billionaire is going to pull the plug. Yeah. Well, see, that's, but if I were the billionaire producer, I would be like, let's try not to lose a shitload of money, but really let's do what we want. So that would, that would be the fun part of it. Yeah. And there are some producers that operate this way in Hollywood right now. And a

lot of those producers are still independently financing films, taking them to market, and they're being acquired. Right. So it's not like this is a totally crazy idea. The thing is, is there has been the rise of a couple of small studios in the last few years, you know, Neon and A24 most specifically, that are trying to do this business. You know, that are trying to, they're doing it at a smaller scale than I think we intend to. Right.

They're trying to build from the ground up. And now we see A24 like literally trying to be like, hey, we're like a mid-major now. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, like we're like. And now we're expanding. We're going to be a five seed in the big tournament. You know what I mean? We're not, we're not the Cinderella story anymore. So one, maybe. Is that because they took on a lot of investors? I think they took on more investment. Investment, right. Yes, they raised more capital from their backer. And so now there's an expectation of making bigger movies that can make more money.

My source of funding is a whimsical billionaire and not a hedge fund. Yes. Okay, well, that's an important distinction as well. I think we both are backed by solo operators. Now, are they arms dealers they may or may not know can i just like be david ellison with different taste and hopefully my dad is working your dad isn't the billionaire so this is a this is an issue here well i know like david ellison is bulletproof well i know that's what i want i think larry ellison's like the fifth richest

person on earth can i like be can i be that can'm saying. Can I like be, can I be that? Can that be? I don't think so. Okay. I think we're dealing with like a 20 billionaire, not a 100 billionaire. You know what I mean? Okay. Do you accept this?

I accept it. I wish it were different, but. So did you just only choose like entirely vanity projects here? No, I mean some, but you know, it's like. All right. Should we, should we end our vamping? That's not vamping. That's essential to the business, okay?

You want me to be a studio head, I got to know where the money's coming from and what the expectations are, okay? If someone called you and they were like, $20 million a year, you're a studio head, would you be like, where's this money coming from? Or would you be like, absolutely. $20 million a year, I'm in.

Of course I would ask where the money is coming from. Really? Yes. Sign the contract, get paid. I don't know. I really hate meetings you know i really hate decks you would turn down 20 million because of meetings but like think about all of the bullshit that you have to say if you're if you are like a studio head 20 million dollars at like god bless them you know well not even paramount right now but like i'm sure brian

robbins goes to a lot of meetings right well that's what i'm saying and then you have to like manage up as well to all of the comcast stuff yeah but you just have to manage up to one guy like imagine having to care about comcast bottom line we're not we're not globally but i know but that's why i'm saying like is that is that worth $20 million a year? This is a smaller business. Also, also, it's like you get $20 million for one, maybe two years, and then you're out because you're just put in a position to fail. Rest assured, Brian Roberts is not going to call you to run one of his studios. That's not the exercise. You said a hypothetical, and I'm engaging. The hypothetical is one billionaire who's a huge fan of the pod who's like, I think Amanda has great ideas and I want her in the building running the show.

That's the idea. No one should want me in the building running the show. You should want me available by text message or just like some, you know, some chats over drinks, a lot of great ideas. And then I'm like, yeah, just make sure it happens. Bye. Your ambition is riveting. Okay.

Shall I describe the parameters of the game? Yes. And the way that we're going to do this is we're going to go back and forth. So you're going to do one and then I'm going to do one. And you can choose from any category that you want, but we can't overlap. Oh, you didn't tell me that. I know. But doesn't that make it fun?

Yeah. I don't think there will be that much, but... I agree. I agree. My intention is that we're not going to be in it, but there might be one or two where we have to improvise. Okay. So there's 11 things that we need to start our studio.

Here's the list of the things that we need. One, we need three filmmakers under contract to make films for us. We see in the last five or six years, a lot of studios have been kind of racing to grab filmmakers. There's this big race to get Quentin Tarantino to make a film after the fall of the Weinstein Company. We saw Christopher Nolan leaving Warner Brothers. We see Denis Villeneuve, like what's he going to do next? Is he going to stick with Warner Brothers? These are all very critical things going on in movies right now. Daniel signed up with Universal for their

next movie. That was a big bidding war. So three three filmmakers naturally we need movie stars so five stars we could have probably gone for more honestly but we're using the old school model of hollywood studios where you sign up a star for a three picture deal okay didn't used to have we don't really have this as much isn't it wasn't it like basically proven illegal uh we're not gonna do that right now uh no No gender expectations on our stars. You can have as many or as few in either direction as you want. Three literary properties at your disposal. Okay.

That means you have grabbed the rights to three literary properties. So here is another question I had. Because we have literary properties and also, sorry to jump ahead, but number six is one franchise to build around are these are we picking from like existing like as i'm not going to take lord of the rings the franchise is an existing franchise so the literary properties are unadapted or things that have been adapted but that you would reimagine okay the franchise is an existing movie franchise that you will be shelling out for the rights to. Because of course these things do come up. Yes. You know, like if a certain period of time has passed for some studios, their rights, their right to own that property lapses and then

you have to re-up. So three literary properties, two in-house screenwriters. Okay. Two folks who were at your beck and call. Yeah call to write something at any time of day. Okay. A wild card creative. This could be a director, an actor, a producer, a DP, anybody. Just one more person from that batch. You mentioned the one franchise to build around. One classic film for your library

and to iterate upon if you so choose. Yeah, this feels evil but yes well i know we talk about it on the rewatch was all the time it's been done well many times and has also been a disaster but yeah this is finally your chance to do the all-black cast of the sound of music okay uh four more things your first film yes as as CEO and head of production of your movie studio. A location for your studio lot. Right. Could be anywhere in the world. Okay.

Number 10, a windowing strategy for home release. Of course, we were just discussing this. And number 11, a name for your studio. Yeah. I feel like I've done some good work here. I like my work. Okay. Who should go first?

Do you have a coin? I don't but i'm happy to open bobby do you have a coin and cory do you got a coin oh oh cory cory reaching for his coin purse i have a coin actually if you don't i have a euro i don't want to i don't want to mess with that foreign money i don't have american currency but i do have the very convoluted scrabble tile top gun hat it's some somewhere next to me but i don't have a coin because i'm 28 i don't know if we want to sully the top gun wallet but this experience and i i do have this is live podcast yeah this is why we've gone to video it's for incredible moments like this thing thank you so much don't trip what service thank you so much wow everyone say hi to cory hi cory don't cut it out cory okay um i've got one euro two euro or 50 cents let's do two euro

okay why not go big all right so on one side it says two euro and that is, I don't know whether that's the king of Spain or the prime minister. Sorry, Spain. It says España and there's a picture of a man. So that can be heads. Okay. Heads or tails? Tails. I don't know who heads is.

Tails. Tails. Okay. You have the first pick. I will go first. I need my euro back. heads is. Tails. Tails. Okay. You have the first pick. I will go first. I need my Euro back. This is good money. When do you think you'll next be in Europe?

When you're fired from your film studio? I can next year. Oh, wow. Wow. Are you kidding me? We're not going to go next year? I don't know. I may be in production on a big project.

Okay. We'll see. I already, like, I have some parties arranged for us to attend as well. Like, I've got a whole tour. You can come if you want. If I'm like, I have some parties arranged for us to attend as well. Like, I've got a whole tour. You can come if you want. If I'm invited, I will consider it. We had a great time in Europe together. We did.

We did. Maybe again soon. Okay. We'll put that over there. I'm going first. Okay. I didn't know that we were overlapping, so I'm just going to go ahead and take the one thing that I, there's a good chance we would overlap on.

So in director, I'm going to take Jordan Peele. Oh, what? No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! there's a good chance we would overlap on. So in director, I'm going to take Jordan Peele. Oh, what? Ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha! Okay. Okay. Okay.

That was obviously my first overall pick. Yeah, of course. I mean, it makes a lot of sense in terms of like a intelligent, exciting, like established but still on the rise director, conversant in a lot of genres, makes big hits, also can help with other movies. I'm hoping it's like a director and producer. Very smart. You know, just help everyone do your thing.

This is why he was my first pick too. Because he's got a little bit of studio head. I have ideas, DNA in him as well. Well, if you're taking Jordan Peele, then I'm obviously taking Greta Gerwig. Fuck you. I can't believe you didn't take Greta Gerwig first overall. Who are you? What are you doing? Well, I didn't think that you would do it. Well, here I am. I mean, you just taunted me. You took my guy.

You took my dude. Now, one of the factors here, obviously, is the age of the folks that we're taking. Because, you know, there's a lot of older filmmakers who we both have a lot of admiration for, but they don't have a lot of films left. So if we're launching our business here with the expectation that they're going to be a part of the identity of the studio, I mean, who better than Greta Gerwig? Yeah, that hurts. She's younger than I am.

God bless her. She's my age. Okay, well, now I got to recalibrate a little bit here. You can go into any category here. Yeah, relax. I understand that. Wow, look at how wounded you are. You know this to yourself

it's not actually that it's honestly that i didn't know that they were being eliminated so i just have three directors and i'm like fuck now i have to think about i thought that was gonna happen yeah i could have told you it's yeah you could have told me you did it so it's not i mean i am wounded i love greta and that was gonna solve a lot of like problems for me in terms of my taste, but also commercial appeal. I mean, it's the nerdiest thing. Is that like a TV show? Is it movie? I think it's a three film series.

Okay. Well, I don't know if that's how I want. That's just speculation. I don't know what it is. I would be canceling that project to bring her over to our new studio. Okay. I mean, I would as well, but I don't have that option. Okay.

So I guess here is my other question, and it's more like I am making it an edict, which is we can use people other than the people at our disposal, right? Like, I understand Greta Gerwig's under contract to use, so I can't use her. But in some of these other situations, it's like I don't, like, I can make movies with people. Are you wondering if you can get Kevin Spacey on board

in one of your projects? No, but it's not like, for example, our first film doesn't have to be made by one of our three directors. No, it doesn't. Right, okay, good. Okay. Good. Okay.

I guess if we're just, you know, going for the jugular, in wildcard creative, I'll take Christopher McQuarrie with a no submarines clause. That's funny. I told you also. I was just like, this underwater thing is a bad idea. Okay. And in general, submarine, like we have a lot of technologies. The mess is the mastery when it comes to Mission Impossible. That's why he's in wildcard creative because maybe he's writing a script here and there.

So you don't want him as a screenwriter. You want him as somebody who can come in and do anything. I want him floating. Okay. Yeah. Maybe he can make a movie for me. Maybe he can, you know, punch up some other scripts. Like, maybe, you know, Tom's doing something.

I like that pick. Thank you so much. Okay. I think this is fairly obvious but necessary, which is that I'll be taking Timothee Chalamet as my first movie star. Oh, interesting. Okay. Not on my list, but that's great.

Not on your list. No, I went's great not on your list no i went elsewhere not on your list well i made a list of five people i mean i went timothy chalamet is great i i thought that he was wonderful in wonka a film that has made hundreds of millions of dollars worldwide his best effort obviously wonka stinks but he's 28 years old yeah i have some other young he's a proven box office draw. I got some other people. He's now led multiple great films. And wait until I reunite him with Greta Gerwig. Okay.

Imagine the magic they will make together on the grandest stage. It's very beautiful every single time. In Barbie 2. Yeah. Okay. What do you got next? Okay. So.

I guess in actors, I will take Emma Stone away from you. Not on my list. Oh, wow. Yep. That is just a betrayal. She's just gotten a little too artsy, you know? She's not worried about the box office anymore. Emily Stone.

Well, under the three-picture deal, I can nudge her any way that I'd like. And then I'll also let her produce whatever the hell she wants for me. I'm very, very excited to speak with you about kinds of kindness. I do need to see that. Listen, I love Jesse Plemons.

I'm excited that he and Kiki both have won Cannes Awards. I like, you know, Joe Owens seems to have dodged a bullet. Happy for him. Until you see the film. Did we catch you up on that? Like the tortured tortured poet was actually honestly i hope all those people just go away i just hope they go

away i don't think that they are going to anytime soon but i just don't but he he managed to mostly escape it it seems like you did tell me that okay yeah um which is good he's a very good actor i just you know short stories stories. That's just... What if I told you they were thematically correlated? R.I.P. Alice Munro, okay? But if you're not Alice Munro, like, why don't you see it through to the end? What about Edgar Allan Poe?

Yeah, what's the one with the heart, the thumbs, the thumbs? The telltale heart? Yeah, that was a big deal in eighth grade. Are you... We're moving on. I can't with you. Sorry, who would you take? Emma Stone.

Emma Stone. I mean, she's marvelous. Emma Emily Stone. Yeah, she's marvelous. She's fantastic. I'm a huge fan of hers. I think I'm going to go... Boy, you really threw me

for a loop with that Macquarie. I didn't even have my list, but I liked how you were thinking about it. Thank you so much. That was really good drafting. Thank you. I'm just going to take Ryan Coogler.

Okay. This was one where I knew you would do it, and so I didn't actually put it on my list, because I made this in a spirit of generosity. Yeah. Well, what we need to do is, obviously, Ryan Coogler has extricated himself from the MCU, which I think is great news. Yeah. Again, another thing where just water, you know, just really...

In some ways, that was the most vibrant and interesting part of that movie. But plot wise, it was kind of shoved in and it just. Yeah, I wasn't there. We've not we've not mastered the ocean yet. I haven't I haven't lost any faith in him, though. And the fact that he has decided to make a period vampire movie for another studio, I think is fucking amazing. Obviously, he and michael b jordan comes with him so we don't have to sign michael b jordan but we're getting michael b jordan on

our slate yeah because he works on every single one of his movies which is very exciting love loving bj and kugler okay so kugler the one time i met him i did an event with him and he was super nice and he was like i know you you're the guy from the rewatchables. Incredible moment in my life. And he was like, I just listened to the Godfather episode. And I was like, wow, this is, everything is going really great for me right now. And then he was like, I need to make my own Godfather. Now he wasn't saying he was going to make the Godfather.

Right, right, right. But he was thinking in those terms. He had just finished, he was on the award circuit for black panther at that time and i can see an epic story that he wants to tell with some original power that could be the defining piece of our partnership at this studio so kugler is a very important piece of this puzzle to me so ryan kugler is my second of three filmmakers i think that's beautiful okay i don't know that we have that much like desperate overlap at this point. Although I might have to start Googling actors at this point.

Because again, I just, you know, I did three and five. And I just kind of, I went like with my heart. Yeah. But so I'm just going to go with the things that came out of the list. Number two is Luca Guadagnino. He has 45 projects in development and i will make sure that each one of those gets across the finish line okay and also think about all of the hot young white men that i get in the bargain without having to it's a very good point um can i a personal anecdote in paris

matthias schonertz was checking out of our hotel at the same time that i was and me too and listen it's like not everyone needs the Luca camera to make them look amazing, as I learned from Matthias Schonertz in the hotel lobby, but it helps. So he's 46, so only 20 more years until you find him truly desirable. Matthias Schonertz?

Yeah. Old guys. You're really an old guy. Yeah, but I'm also into Jacob Elordi and every single other person who has starred in a Luca Guadagnino movie. That is very true. Luca? I saw a photograph of Luca from the late 90s with Tilda Swinton, in which he looked very young, and he looked like one of his stars.

Threw me way off. I only know him as the curly hair and the beard and the gray. He was, once upon a time, dashing young italian man yeah he understands he's vibing just just do whatever you want you know his next film queer yes three hours debuting at venice which was written by justin karitskas adapted from the william s burroughs novel um hotly tabbed to feature the leading best actor candidate, Daniel Craig. I mean, see, like sometimes, you know, be the change you want to see in the world. That's what I want to see.

Okay. That Luca is, uh, like a really bad choice. This is your, I think he's a wonderful filmmaker, but he's. Again, I can do whatever I want. Okay. Okay. And challengers is making okay money. It is.

People are renting it. I checked in with some friends this morning. They rented it on VOD. They watched it twice. Challengers right now has earned $86,825,000. $86,825,000.

I'm losing my mind. Listen. It's my studio. I have Jordan Peele making the really big budget stuff. Also, you know, Luke is making a movie with Julia Roberts and Andrew Garfield. Okay. He's doing 45 other things. Maybe we'll get the Brett Easton Ellis stuff back.

Okay. You know, let's get weird. Tilda. Let's get Tilda in the mix. Timothy, your guy. Timothy is working with me. So he won't be joining you. Maybe we'll do a loner.

What am I getting back? Maybe you get some Jordan Peele time. Okay. Well, we'll talk. Uh, okay. I have a pick for my next pick.

I'm just taking Tom Cruise. I don't fucking care. Okay. Uh, one, I'm breaking up. Well, maybe,

maybe I will give you what I have is more valuable. So Corey, Corey, Corey is nothing to me. Uh, if you want to make Tom Cruise work, up McHugh and Cruz. Maybe I will give you what I have is more valuable. Macquarie. Macquarie is nothing to me. If you want to make Tom Cruise work that's simply not the case. Sometimes you need Macquarie. The entire point here

is that we need to break them. So I will loan you Macquarie for Timothee Chalamet. That'll be lovely. You're going to have to throw some more in there I think. We're talking about Tom Cruise so it's going to take some time

for you to figure this out. Cruise can still open movies. I truly believe it. And teamed up with Greta Gerwig, they will make fat magical films. So I'm very excited to see her deep exploration of aging and failing masculinity starring Tom Cruise. A beautiful movie star enters his seventh decade and begins to lose his sense of confidence. I'm going to be honest with you. You don't even need to film the movie. Just film Greta Gerwig and Tom Cruise talking for a while

and release it in podcast series. And you've made all your money for the year. I know that you said that this is movies only. We're not allowed to merchandise or market. But allow me just to make that general suggestion to you. We appreciate those thoughts. Can you imagine those two people talking? I think they do great. They both love film. I know. They both love musicals. We appreciate those thoughts. Can you imagine those two people talking? I think they'd do great.

They both love film. I know. They both love musicals. They're both enthusiastic? Yeah. I think they would do great together. And imagine what Tom could give to Timmy. Imagine what he could teach him.

Look at what Glenn Powell is doing after going to the Tom Cruise finishing school for movie stars. I know. I'm really proud of him. He's fucking crushing it. Yeah.

Imagine what Tim could do. No, I believe in it. But like, also, I don't know if that's really like Tim's lane, you know? Well, we'll get to that. Okay. What's your next pick? I'll take Glenn. Glenn's on my list. Oh, interesting.

Glenn Powell. Okay. You took Tom Cruise. I'll take the next. I've got two white men right now. I'll take the next Tom Cruise. The next white man. Which is Glenn Powell. So Glenn obviously took Tom Cruise. I'll take the next. I've got two white men right now. I'll take the next Tom Cruise. The next white man? Which is Glenn Powell.

So Glenn obviously gave us a shout out. Yeah. Glenn, we love you. Glenn, open invitation. Draft. You can pick the terms. What do you think you would want to draft? Sports movies?

Sure. But let's not narrow them in. You know, would Glenn like to do the rom-com draft? Yeah. Merchant Ivory films? Merchant Ivory draft? What if Glenn has seen A Room with a View and you haven't? It's entirely possible.

Two people on my flight back were watching A Room with a View. Two dorks. Yeah. Okay. Glenn Powell is great. Great pick. We'll talk about Hitman later this week on the pod. Can't wait to talk about that.

For my next pick, I've got a wildcard creative idea. Okay. Bill Hader. Oh wild card creative idea okay Bill Hader oh I like it Bill Hader has obviously finished production on Barry and has been angling

to make a movie for a long time he's writing a movie right now spent some time with Bill talking about the show Barry and I feel like

if things break right we have a very important American director and also somebody who knows how to run a show be a producer write and can star in stuff.

I think this is a great pick. If we're looking Swiss Army Knife I thought Bill would be fun. Okay. You're up. Iowa Dibbery. It was on my list.

Yeah. This is a I don't even know if it's coming. I think it's like happening. It was on my list. Yeah. This is a... I don't even know if it's coming. I think it's happening. It happened. Right now. And especially this June with The Bear season three.

She's directing an episode. So she writes. She can do a lot. And then she's voicing... Envy. Envy. In Inside Out 2. In Inside Out 2.

I watched the clip of her doing voice work. I mean, it's not her first voice work rodeo, so I've learned. She was on Big Mouth, yeah, for a long time. I've read a lot of tweets about that. Congratulations to all of you who had that experience. What's your issue with Big Mouth? I don't watch cartoons. What about Inside Out 2?

Well, I have a job, so. Interesting. I liked Inside Out, and I cried a lot at Bing Bong. Was it because it was female centered? Is Bing Bong the original imaginary friend that we've made billions of dollars off of? Or was Bing Bong just like a toy? I think it depends on your interpretation of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Okay.

Oh, right. Or Mary Poppins for that matter. Yeah did i tell you that mary poppins was introduced to my house this week how's it going very well nox's uh step in time dance is like next fucking level let us know when you want it to come over you just start putting it in he's just like stomping around hopefully soon be so We've never done a double screen. Alice will be so large. She does like to stomp though.

I can see it working out. I can see some synchronicity. Also we took a kite to the beach yesterday and we told Knox that we brought a kite and he just started

singing let's go fly a kite. It was really very special. Yeah I think Ayo can do it all. I like that pick. Guys now that Inside Out 2 has come up naturally

on the podcast can i inform you guys of an animation magazine story that says uncut gems was a deep influence on the visual language of inside out 2 that's what's getting aggregated over there on the old x.com today what do you think about that hell yeah brother hell yeah that's what we're talking about. I can't wait to see Inside Out 2. What is that? Is this like the new version of the Marvel, like this is the parallax view? We can just say this about animated movies

that was influenced by the Safdie brothers? Like, what is this? I think there was, there has been Pixar director bullshit in the past because all those directors are such cinephiles, but that one is uniquely coded. I guess if anxiety is one of the emotions, right? Isn't that what Maya Hawke is?

Anxiety? Yeah. And anxiety, of course, the dominant mode of Uncut Gems. Shall I take the Safdies in Filmmakers? Oh, that's nice. Yeah. I thought about it. Obviously, they're not working together right now, Benny and Josh.

I hope one day they make films together again. Rumors of Josh making another movie. Benny is in production on a movie with Dwayne The Rock Johnson, The Smashing Machine. Oh, right. For A24, which is another one of those big, noisy A24 movies.

I just, what they had together was very special to me. Got a chance to spend a lot of nice time with them. Really like those guys. And I want them making movies under our banner. So I'll take them. So those are my three filmmakers. I've got Ryan Coogler, Greta Gerwig, and the Safdie brothers. I get two for one there.

Pretty nifty. So you think you get rights to their individual projects as well? I don't know. Okay. I don't know. If there's another shark out there at a rival studio, perhaps we can talk about this issue. It depends on whether I'm feeling generous or not.

Okay. I am going to take Daniel Kaluuya in Actors. I just think he's one of the great actors of his generation and also can do everything. Forgot about him. I mean, we were talking about him and Sicario the other day. Just being like, what the fuck is going on? You know? It's like a decade of him just being great at stuff.

Oscar winner. Has done dramas. Has done Marvel. Excellent. Can do it all. Excellent. Okay. Great pick.

Thank you. I'll take Zendaya. It's a good one. I don't think this means we get the future of the Dune franchise. Just because I have Timothee Chalamet and Zendaya, but I at least have the association with one of the only good movies to have emerged from 2024. I like their energy together.

If we want to put them back together, we don't have to. Zendaya, as we know, can carry a movie to the tune of 86,825,000, as I said earlier. Just out of your being like, Luca is the worst choice you've ever made. And then just like you're picking out all the little individual pieces. I like to compete, you know. Sometimes I get a little over my skis when I'm competing. But Zendaya, I mean, no-brainer, right?

She's arguably the most. Yeah, she was not on my list, but it is a no-brainer. Because you dislike her deeply? No, I really like her. Okay. She doesn't have anything lined up. That's exactly the point. Mm-hmm. That's exactly the point.

Come on in. Okay. The water's warm at my studio. I mean, but you're going to have to deal with what's that guy's name who just spends forever writing Euphoria? Donald Trump. Okay, what's next? I'm going to do an in-house screenwriter Scott Frank

yeah because he can write his own stuff and then I'll fix everything else just I mean one of the great screenwriters and one of the most legendary script actors in Hollywood I really enjoyed Monsieur Spade

it was okay again that's what I want to see on the screen. I don't know what that ending was really about. It was okay. It was fun when he showed up on the watch. Just be like, here's, you know, I thought it would work. He seems like a great guy. I've liked a lot of his movies.

Yeah, I liked it. But see, whatever. I like Monsieur Spade. I like his vibe. Yeah. It's good to have, you know, a five-tool player. I mean, how many more scripts are you getting out of my guy, Scott Frank? I mean, you know, Coppola is whatever.

80-something. 84, yeah. Ridley. Yeah. 80-something. George Miller, 80. You know. 83, I think, yeah.

Right. And I'm not asking Scott Frank to go to the Australian just dumped all over Furiosa well I'm not asking Scott Frank to go to the desert

you know where's he gonna go just like a coffee shop in his lovely home in Pasadena and keep writing stuff it sounds like a great life and then if he wants

to go to Bazool or whatever the hell of that French village was maybe we can cover that you know what was so good was Ripley yeah what no god you know what was so good was ripley yeah what no god you know what

you're repping for mr spade and you're dumping on ripley so here's god what the hell i like i appreciate that it was like impeccably made and andrew scott and andrew scott is a legend uh-huh um i i missed the color of the Mingala version. I mean, like, you know, there is, like, I understand black and white, ooh la la, but I found myself yearning for the Mediterranean. And also that, you know, Dakota Fanning. I mean, no one can be Gwyneth, but that's pretty tough. And I found the pacing to just be kind of streaming tv pacing especially when you're so intimately involved with the original as we are that's just me okay understood that's why i'm doing what i'm

doing and you're doing what you're doing you're being a brat and i'm being a legend i'm picking things that interest me and you're picking things that interest you uh How about a literary property? Okay. I've chosen Robert Caro as the power broker. Oh, good one. Even though Edward Norton, he of the deck, deck entrepreneur and filmmaker

has already made this in the guise of Motherless Brooklyn, which is one of the most confusing things that's ever happened. No, we're going to pretend that film never happened.

What we're going to do is it's going to be a series of films and each of those films is going to be about the construction of a great work in the new york system wow but at the center of every story is this man and it's going to be a complicated tale of a thanos-like figure seeking to rule everything it's your godfather this is my god that's a good that's a very good idea and it it's you know classically New York it's an incredible star part

for a middle-aged movie star perhaps Tom Cruise imagine Tom Cruise as Robert Caro or excuse me as Robert Moses. Him as Robert Caro

would also be interesting. Well maybe maybe a spinoff. Okay. The making of The Power Broker. You know obviously I mean a Robert Caro

biopic, you know, if you're gonna... I thought the documentary was fascinating about him and Bob Gottlieb. I feel like this is a book that needs to be dissected and taken apart. And there are certain chapters and certain ideas that themselves

can just be entirely about one neighborhood in New York or about one day on one construction site. It's a very rich concept that shows us the inner workings of how power works in local government in New York or about one day on one construction site. It's a very rich concept that shows us the inner workings of how power works in local government in New York City, how individual lives are affected, and also this megalomania, obviously, at the center of the story. So that's my first literary property, my only nonfiction choice. That's a good one.

Thank you. I'm trying to decide whether I should do actors. I don't think we're going to, again, what's good for narrative stakes right now? What should I do? Do a literary property. Okay. Since I did one.

This is your bailiwick. I'm going to do my most obvious one, which is I will just take the Crazy Rich Asians franchise from Warner Brothers and redo the first one and do all of them and maybe do the extended. How many books are there there are three in that and then kevin kwan has just started then writing kind of one-off that the characters aren't related but it's like rich people and fabulous locations the last one

was in um capri there's one this year that i'm looking forward to read i just i know crazy rotations made a fair amount of money but but I just think it could be better. And if you've spent more money on it and made the sets and the costumes and everything be as opulent as the experience of reading the books are. I'm a big fan of those books. What will your billionaire say about all this travel and production design? Well, that's also what he believes in. Oh. In terms of filmmaking.

That's why he's tapped you. Yes, exactly. He's like, what we need is real locations. Yeah. He also, he enjoys in. Oh. In terms of filmmaking. That's why he's tapped you. Yes, exactly. He's like, what we need is real locations. Yeah, he enjoys the work of Luca Guadagnino. So it's all working out for us. That's going to be great for his bank account. The first Crazy Rich Asians movie made $239 million on a $30 million budget. Yeah.

So you're off to a strong start. Sure. But I might redo it with even 60 million you know we don't have to go crazy but like

maybe the mansion that is like the major focal point doesn't have to be full CGI just a thought just an idea I support you

it could make 500 million then okay that's a good pick that's interesting thank you how many actors do I have? Three? I'll take Dev Patel.

Oh, another good one. Yeah. I feel like we just saw a little glimmer of what it could be. Yeah. And with my roster of filmmakers, with my screenwriters to come, I feel like he can carry a movie on his shoulders, which is really the thing that I'm looking for here. I'm not looking for character actors. Okay. I'm looking for stars. Okay. Speaking of stars and people who can carry movies on their shoulders, my fifth will be, I don't care what the people say, Ryan Gosling. Interesting. Box office poison, Ryan Gosling? Not box office poison. As you recently noted, his movie found his audience of people over 35 at home.

Will you be programming specifically for 50-year-olds? Well, I'm going to pair him with Emma Stone again. Oh, well, that's smart. So there we go. That's very smart. And so, well, you know, we'll do a whole rom-com thing. Very good. Also, he's like getting older and I think he can start playing.

He can do the Paul Newman in the 50s in his 50s type situation he can do comedy I guess he can do action if he wants to he can do we can do some more serious roles

I don't think they want action from him I'd love to see what Luca and Ryan get up to together that's intriguing yeah so you know

we can have it all a bigger splash too starring Ryan Gosling. Could be good. For my last movie star, I'll take Florence Pugh. She was on my list, but then I... We haven't really tapped into what this could be yet. That's true.

She's been very good in things. Because it's pretty powerful in everything that it already is, you know? Yeah. But she is... She's like Jodie Foster and Elizabeth Taylor at the same time. You know what I mean? Like she's very flinty

and very tough and very smart and very unafraid to stand up for herself as a performer. But she's also hot. You know, she's like a very, like a very physical actor, a very physical being, a very sensual performer.

So if you smash those two things together, that's like an ideal modern female movie star. And she's been really good. She's incredible in Midsommar. I think that's probably her best performance. You know, good in Little Women. She's amazing in Little Women. Good in that little part in Dune. You know, she's...

She steals Black Widow. She definitely has kept her nose clean despite the fall of marvel um she put in a solid effort in the film a good person which i watched i saw that alone at an ipic very tough one she's very good in fighting with my family in which she plays a professional wrestler yeah honestly not a bad movie uh so i feel like there's great things to come. And I like letting her and Greta potentially go back together. Yes. Yeah. Just kind of populating Greta's whole troop again is a good idea.

Yeah. Like if we get Timmy and Florence Pugh and then what, you know, because they showed us a little bit of what it could have been in Little Women, you know, and then the zag in the story. So what if we consummated that? I know, it's so heartbreaking, but also, like, you sort of believe it in the movie, which is what makes it powerful. God, that movie's so good. Yeah. Really one of the underrated classics of the last decade.

Okay, that's good. So I've got my five movie stars. Do you have your five movie stars? I do. My five movie stars are Emma Stone, Glenn Powell, Iowa Dibbery, Daniel Kaluuya, and Ryan Gosling. Interesting. Mine are Timothee Chalamet's Zendaya, Dev Patel, Florence Pugh, and Tom Cruise. You think they'll all hang out?

Yeah, I think that'll be really normal. I've got a few more categories. Let's keep going. I guess I'll round out my directors. Obviously, I was going to do Greta, but now I can't have Greta, so I will take my other beloved, Sofia Coppola, and just give her a safe place and a budget.

Yeah, just in an effort to lose as much money as possible. Just like her dad. As we said, I have a billionaire who understands. Also, I just, I will let her do all her other stuff that makes money and, I just, I will let her do

all her other stuff that makes money and, you know, brings attention. This is not a teacup business. I just want you to know. She doesn't make a teacup. She made a lip balm

for Augustinus Bader, which was also the cream featured in Challengers. I see. So she's, you know, she does things

for perfume companies. We can find, it's fine. Don't worry about it I love Sophia you took Greta from me what do you want you have no one to blame but yourself

well good pick not really but interesting well if you're gonna do your your foolish emotional choice I'll do mine as well

screenwriter I'll take Alex Garland. Alex Garland, author of a $125 million film called Civil War. Yeah. Which did incredibly well at the box office this year. My husband has started wearing that sweatshirt a lot. Yeah, yeah.

And it was like, he almost wore it out of the house the other day. And I was like, you can't wear that out of the house. Many people are saying that 28 Years Later will be the best film of 2025. I forgot to mention that. Have you seen the cast for this film? Yes, but I don't recall it.

So why don't you read it out loud? Cillian Murphy, of course. Sure. Returning in some form or fashion. Jodie Comer. Aaron Taylor Johnson. Jack O'Connell. Ralph Fiennes. Great. Pretty fucking sick. Yeah. Obviously, Danny Boyle returning to direct the film.

So this is what Alex Garland can do. These are the worlds he can create. What kind of American are you? Are you a zombie or are you a Republican? You know, this is, he will break the woke culture in our cinema. I think that's great. So is that your first screenwriter? That's my first screenwriter, yeah. I have a funny idea for my second one. I do too. And I'm just gonna, I'll just throw it in.

I'm gonna do Rachel Sennett as a screenwriter. I approve. I approve. And we can, you know, again, it's just like you're part of the family around maybe she pops up however you want to do it what do you think of rachel exactly yeah hey sofia what do you think of rachel wow uh exactly and then she and io can you know right together get along different energies yeah but like there is something sort of in the deadpan-ness. I think that Rachel could do a really beautiful Anna Faris in Lost in Translation performance.

And it's like you do have to be on the wavelength to understand what's funny about that. So they would see eye to eye in that way. I think that's good. Yeah, I like that. Okay, my other screenwriter is Akilah Cooper, of your favorite film megan uh yeah uh she also wrote malignant the james wan movie and we need horror in our studio as a dependable genre that's why i have jordan peele yeah well very smart obviously ryan coogler is digging into vampires or something in the next movie or we're pleased about that work um could could could greta make a horror movie is it crazy to imagine greta gerwig's interview

with the vampire or bride of frankenstein i don't think so i think she might enjoy how many frankenstein movies are we getting this year next year we get two okay we get there well they're both about the bride oh good one is guillermo delo, in which the bride is portrayed by Mia Goth. Right. And Frankenstein is Jacob Elordi. Jacob Elordi. The other is Maggie Gyllenhaal. Right.

In which, I can't remember who portrays the bride, Maggie Gyllenhaal, but it will be good, I'm sure. So, yeah. Akilah Cooper is my next pick. Okay. What else you got so we have literary properties i have this is the one where i like came up with a lot of ideas obviously um this is it's this studio's just got to be me so i'm going to do the secret history yeah we got to do it yeah you've shouted this out in the past yeah this is the Donna Tartt novel um famously unmade by I god who was it at this point I like at one point Gregory Dunn and Didion no they didn't have rights I don't know I honestly don't know who had it there was a Noah Baumbach maybe Anyway, one of the great novels of my lifetime, if you haven't read

it, if you're looking for a summer read. And, you know, I think you could do this as a TV series, but I think it would feel pretty drawn out. Like the best version of this is Talented Mr. Ridley Minghella for our generation. So let's make it happen i like it thank you i've got a literary property here okay and we can go through we're almost done here so we can do our final picks uh without having to go back and forth yeah but i picked dan simmons's hyperion cantos are you familiar with this no i wonder if your husband has read these this is a very famous fantasy sci-fi series that many people have tried to make in the past most recently bradley cooper it's a series of films it's uh kind of like intergalactic semi-arthurian story that very closely resembles in its construction Chaucer.

And each book is like structured around those stories. Also the Decameron I think is also like a big influence on it. I bet it is. I mean,

as with all the great works. Yeah. You know? Yeah. You know, what is the Godfather if not King Lear? You know?

Like these are... What galaxies come into play? I think it's all invented worlds as far as I know. Cool. But they use Canterbury Tales as like the framework. And I feel like you need, if you're going to start a movie studio, you need something like this. You need something.

And this is a critically acclaimed book series. This is not like junk off the shelf. This is like a prize winning book series. No, that's cool. When were you forced to read Canterbury Tales 10th grade English yeah that was a hard sit

gonna be real I understand canonically and structurally I don't understand so you didn't like Canterbury Tales but you were like I need to major in classics yeah they gave it to me when I was like 15. And I think this was also the teacher

who was like, we're going to read Beowulf in the old English, you know? And I was like, I get it. I get it. The lady is making jokes about farts or whatever. What was your favorite?

That is historically important. What was your favorite of the Canterbury Tales? I don't remember all of them. I remember the farting. And I was like, let's move on. How about the Summoner's Tale? I remember spending a lot of time on that.

What happens in that one? Let's pull up the Wikipedia for that one. Okay, great. This tale is a fierce counterpunch to the preceding tale by the friar, who had delivered an attack on summoners. Summoners were officials in ecclesiastical courts who delivered a summons to people who had been brought up on various charges the office was prone to corruption since summoners were infamous for threatening to bring people up on charges

unless they were bought off i stopped listening the friar had accused them of corruption and taking bribes and the summoner seeks to address the friar through his own story you know what this sounds like cop land we gave the summoner a chance and he blew it. And then they start trying to teach you about the Magna Carta or some shit and you're just like, all right, you know?

Pick your last literary property. I got some options, but this one just kind of came to me in a dream and I like the idea of it. So Barbarian Days. Yeah, I thought about this. Is it enough of a narrative arc?

Well, but the thing is, is that you can put narrative arc into it. William Finnegan's memoir of growing up in Hawaii and becoming a surfer. And traveling the world surfing. And there's also like an amazing thing about this book because William Finnegan is like an incredibly accomplished and very journalist, like outside of this Pulitzer Prize winning book, which is so wonderful. You have a dude in your life and you're looking for a gift, Barbarian Days. It's a great book.

Highly recommend it. But I also loved it. But the elisions in the book where he's like, you know, and then I was in South America for 10 years, like, you know, investigating whatever government, et cetera. There is like so much. Furiosa levels of 15 years later. And so, you know, I don't know whether you center it on that one character or you use it as a jumping off point for like all like to just do like on the road but surfers. But also obviously just the majesty of surfing on screen would certainly be worthwhile.

I like that pick. Thank you. It's a very, very good book. My last book is going to be, my last literary property will just be A Dream I Would Like to See Fulfilled, which is an adaptation of Otessa Moshfieg's My Year of Rest and Relaxation, which has reportedly been circled by Yorgos Lanthimos for a long time. I think that is an incredible fit with that book.

He has not made it. It does not sound like he's going to make it anytime soon. I need someone to make it. Is it Greta? Probably not, but maybe. It could be.

It would be. I mean, it's it's not very yeah. But it's not very bright. Exactly. It's very downbeat.

Very withdrawn. Yes. Yes. Literally. Not the openness that we expect from Greta Gerwig's films. Nevertheless, I just want to see this book adapted. Can I just share the one thing that I didn't pick but needs to be adapted, which is Bob Kolker's Bad Art Friend, the kidney lady piece. Do you remember that?

Really good idea. We didn't do any articles. This was probably the happiest that i was in 2021 when this came out i mean 2021 was like a down year that was the happiest you were when you read that story i mean 2021 you're a sick individual it was not a good year for for most people i agree remember so i guess that that was Alice was born that year, right? She was, yeah. So that's good. It's a good year for her.

Yeah, that was good. I guess I was like also really pregnant at this point when this came out. So like new levels of misery, pregnant plus COVID. But then this piece about these two ladies just absolutely not behaving properly. And then there being text messages in the court documents. One of the great reveals of recent journalism. I loved it. Shout out Bob Kolker.

Read this piece. Someone please turn this into a movie. That's a very interesting suggestion. I think you have one more screenwriter to choose. No, I have Scott Frank and Rachel Sennett. Oh, Rachel Sennett. Excuse me. Okay, so franchise.

Let's do these in order now. Okay. I go? Your turn. I'm taking the Oceans back. Aha. Let's keep doing it. Just keep making Oceans movies.

But with new people. Oceans 9? Sure. Oceans 10. Okay. Oceans 2. Sure. You know?

I have Ryan Gosling, so I can get Margot Robbie in. I'll make that movie. What happened to it? Where is it? Intriguing. Intriguing. Should I have gotten Margot Robbie in. I'll make that movie. What happened to it? Where is it? Intriguing. Should I have gotten Margot Robbie as a wild card? I probably should have. Yeah, but it's okay.

I'm going to get her this way because I've got... She's a free agent, though. She's not under contract. Yeah. They can start stealing all sorts of stuff. Okay. I'm into it. Interesting idea.

Thank you. My franchise is going to be the Twilight Zone. Here's why. Several seasons of episodes with ideas that are rich enough to support a film. Just think of all the raw material that we get to work with. We're not making a TV show this time. Okay. We're making movies.

Yeah. We're making a series of 90-minute movies. Right. Thematically bound by their origins, but that's it. Right. But then what are you going to do when everyone's like i can just watch black mirror at home no these are films with film production all right and expectation and ideas that stoke the creative imagination and let us explore what's inside of ourselves and others okay i love the twilight zone okay uh one classic film for your library. I thought this was kind of tricky because it does feel a little evil.

Not evil, but it's like then you're suddenly, you know, doing the history of like Moneypenny for a James Bond movie on MGM Plus. And you're just like, wow, I hate my life. You know, it can feel like watered down and gross pretty quickly. Yes. But I think there's enough in Chinatown. Interesting. You just want to really get to the bottom of Noah Cross. Well, water rights and the forming of California.

I mean, listen, your boy David Fincher also really loves it. So there's... The future, Mr. Gitz. Yeah, the future. Obviously, also, the Faye Dunaway character has some issues. Yeah. It's like

what's going on? How do things shake out for her? Other crimes that Jake has had to deal with over time. You know you get the old school LA setting

etc. Where are you at on the two Jakes? What do you mean? That's the that's the second film. That's the Jack Nicholson directed sequel from the 80s. Oh, I have not seen it. It's not very good.

Right. I mean, this is the risk with this is that most of them aren't very good, but you got to try. Also, I feel like Scott Frank could have some fun with some of it. That's a good point. Thank you. That's a good pairing. I just chose Seven Samurai because then I'm like, we could just make as many movies about seven cool guys doing shit together as we want. Just feel like that's a good way to find ideas.

That's what Christopher McQuarrie is going to do for me. So it's fine. We can't use Seven Samurai as a framework. Okay. Your first film as CEO, head of production. Yeah. So this is, this is, I've done this before on a mailbag episode, but I feel really passionate about this idea and more passionate about it.

It can't be the Agatha Christie thing that they actually made a movie out of. No, but that was a bad movie. And my, Joanna Hogg and Carey Mulligan call me and we'll talk it out. Definitely. After hearing this, they're definitely going to call you. You know what?

I think I'm supporting artists and budgets. So I want Bradley Cooper to do the making of Rumors and Bradley cooper can get them to give him the rights if anyone on god's green earth can bring lindsey buckingham and stevie nicks together and say let's do it it's bradley cooper he will play lindsey buckingham despite the age issues i don't really care come on yeah it would be so good. Or it would at least be a sight to see, which is what you need. Another great opportunity for me to say Rumors is Mid.

Sorry. That would be a good movie. It would be a really good movie. It's a good idea for a movie. My first film as CEO, head of production will be Megalopolis. I'll be acquiring it out of the Cannes Film Festival. So I'm very excited about that.

That's funny. My other option for this was Nancy Meyers is on filmed movie yeah unfortunately both of these films are extremely expensive and probably not good choices and may fail our companies at the outset but I do want to let Nancy know that my studio is willing to totally cover the budget of her movie but I we're gonna have to talk about Scarlett Johansson in the lead role that's my that's my one term and I and knowing Nancy she'll be like no I don't want to listen to your input and that's fine you've just reminded me that we're talk about Scarlett Johansson in the lead role. That's my one term. And knowing Nancy, she'll be like, no, I don't want to listen to your input. And that's fine. You've just reminded me that

we're so back because Scarlett Johansson and Mahershala Ali will be in a Jurassic Park movie that I've agreed to get excited about. There was a new picture of Willem Dafoe in Beetlejuice Beetlejuice this morning. Did you see it? I didn't. I thought of you. He's doing excellent work in kinds of kindness. I almost sent it to you. but then this is your new Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. I've been texting with the Blank Check fellows, just character posters from Beetlejuice Beetlejuice back and forth, including Head Shrinker. If you guys haven't seen Head Shrinker, you may remember from the original. Good stuff.

Okay, a location for your studio lot. I'll accept the Paramount lot when it's sold. Oh, yeah. Apparently today. Oh, today? It's happening? It appears that David Ellison is assuming control of Paramount.

There we go. My stars are aligning. One step closer to being David Ellison. But he wants it. He wants to keep it. I love the Paramount lot. But you can't have it

because he has it. Well, you know, this is made up. Because if it was sold to Sony, then they would sell the lot. But also, in this thought exercise, I am David Ellison, basically.

No, you're not. We went through this. You're not. You're not a billionaire. In my mind. You're not the heir am David Allison, basically. No, you're not. We went through this. You're not. You're not a billionaire. In my mind. You're not the heir to a billionaire's fortune. Okay, that's fine.

There's just a billionaire who called you. Soon, probably? No, they're doing great. I know they're doing great, but do they need that lot? I think so, yeah. Actually, that was

the original idea that I had for this question was to just try to buy the Rancho Golf Course, which is like right next to the Sony lot because I really like Beverlywood over there. It's a really nice area.

Then there's like the Circle Park in Beverlywood. Everybody listening to this is like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. But that part of LA, which is like insanely suburban, but right inside of a city, I think is a really nice area. But that's not what I chose.

I would still pick the Paramount lot over that. Location-wise, Paramount lot. Which would be an incredible expense to you. And not only that, but you'd have to buy it from a billionaire, which is not cheap. Well, I made this decision before it was sold to David Ellison. Okay. I also have to buy something. Okay.

And I don't know how cheap it's going to be because, frankly, the city of Los Angeles needs money. But I'll be buying the Barnsdale Art Park and the Hollyhock House. And we'll be operating entirely out of that in the sort of Hollywood Silver Lake area. That's cool. Because that park. You can walk to Homestate. I certainly can. Why not put a Homestate in our studio?

Knoxville will happily be an intern for you. Please come through. We need your services. Free of charge, hopefully. I just really like it there. You know, that's good. I mean, that's like, Paramount is not that far from.

They're close. I think you kind of need to be in that region. I don't want to go to Culver City. I don't want to go to... I certainly don't want to go all the way to the west side, the end of the west side. When doing strategy for home release, very simple question.

How long should... How much time should go by before your film is made available at home? So I'm going to be really honest. I forgot to Google typical A24 windowing strategy before. I think it's usually somewhere maybe even closer to eight weeks. Okay. Six to eight weeks.

I have 90 days. Okay. Which is closer to how it used to be. It used to be four to five months. I know. You've talked about this at great length. You're just like, I had to wait forever to go to Blockbuster. It was hard.

To look at the covers of the V It was hard. To look at the covers of the VHS. Did you not look at the covers? I did. Did you not admire them and wonder what could be inside those films?

What mysteries they might hold? Yeah, I did. And what'd you learn when you watched the films? Not very much. Okay. That's too bad.

So 90 Days, a name for your studio. Monumental Pictures. Monumental Pictures? It's the monumental pictures the studio and singing in the rain oh that's good uh mine is called plain view pictures that's good the logo will be a uh a silhouette of daniel and hw sitting in a chair and him standing beside but it'll be actually a silhouette of alice and i alice will be standing beside me okay and i'll be sitting in a chair wearing a hat. I obviously thought about doing something with Knox. But so Knox is like an intense security system, apparently.

So it's already... Oh, that name is taken. That name as a corporation is taken, even though it's a family name. I feel we've done good work here. I had fun. Do you want to talk to Chris about In a Violent Nature? Sure, yeah. Okay.

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McDonald's restaurants in Canada. Prices exclude delivery. Okay, Dr. Fauci of The Big Picture has joined us. Jesus. Chris Ryan. He's here to testify

before God and Amanda about a new film that's just come out. So Chris, I did have Chris Nash on the show. He's the writer and director of this new film that's just come out. So, Chris, I did have Chris Nash on the show. He's the writer and director of this new film, In a Violent Nature. Is it on this episode? It's on this episode.

I'd like you to be clear about who is the interview subject on every episode I appear on. No, I will not do that until you sit down in the chair and I start talking. So, you know, in the past, we've described in full these horror movies to you. We actually saw a horror movie together last Friday, which we haven't talked about very much, which will be the subject of a future episode. But you sat and I think enjoyed yourself. She slugged it out. I had a delightful time.

Yeah, fun movie. So we'll talk about that later. Did you feel safe with me and Sean? Did like, did being with the Scream Kings? Yeah, it was you fidgeting and being like, what is this? It's just my back. No, I know. It was you fidgeting and being like, what is this? It's just my back. No, I know. It was a lovely room, but I understand.

It's the same way. Yeah. You know, I did feel prepared based on a previous segment of this podcast. Yes. So I was ready and I engaged. Yeah. So this film, In a Violent Nature, you haven't seen. Correct. And I know. Yeah. So this film, In a Violent Nature, you haven't seen. Correct.

And I know nothing about it. All that I told you at the top was this answers the question, what if Terrence Malick directed a Friday the 13th movie? Okay. Do you think that's an accurate description? Yes. Also, what if Gus Van Sant directed the behind the killer part of a video game where you're just like walking through fields for 15 or 20 minutes.

But this one will make you look in the mirror and think about like what it is you spend your time doing. How so? Because it's, so it's a, did you set this up at all? No, not really. Okay, so it's a new horror film from this guy, Chris Nash. One of the most gorgeous, contemplative, amazingly like mesmerizing horror movies I've ever seen.

Did quite well in a limited release over the weekend. And it is a horror film told from the perspective of the killer. A silent, unkillable killer, like in the Jason Voorhees, Freddy Krueger mold, who has come back to life to terrorize this campsite, this campground, national park, whatever, and is walking around this forest for like two days, just fucking killing people. And not speaking. Nope.

His name is Johnny. He wears a giant sort of helmet mask. Old school firefighters outfit. Yeah. It's like a flame retardant. But do you see him or is it from? You see him from behind and then briefly from during one sequence. It doesn't hold

that third person point of view that it starts with. It starts with this third person point of view where you can basically see the back of his head as he moves through this woods terrain.

Yeah. And then it eventually breaks that at some point where he's like in the... He's in the background but you're kind of like basically it's like there's a fun campfire scene

with a bunch of teens talking shit to each other and he's behind them but you're seeing the teen so it's it massages the premise a little bit but the bigger thing is that like almost all the scenes are like five minutes to ten minutes long like it feels like it's excruciating it's demanding and also like there's a ton of just this killer walking through this gorgeous landscape yeah shot in Ontario Canada okay but it's almost somnambulist

like you're almost like falling asleep because this guy's just like walking walking walking walking and then

we'll tear a person's skull out through the back of their spine oh okay so the filmmaker is really into practical effects so it's not like

a CGI kill. Yeah. And some of them are quite elaborate. There's one in particular that is a profound showstopper on the edge of a cliff. I would definitely say that, yes. It really like, I was sitting in my home watching this during virtual Sundance, but it was like one o'clock in the morning and I wanted to stand and applaud at the end of the sequence. It's so good.

I talked to Chris about it, Chris Nash about it. But it did prompt this question that I think is maybe interesting for Chris and I to talk about. And then you can weigh in on ultimately what this means, which is to your point. What's wrong with us?

What's wrong with us? Yeah. Like why? I said this to Chris Nash. I was like, what's wrong with you? And what's wrong with me for liking what you do?

And he was a little concerned by the question. He was like, let's not think too hard about this which i understand he's trying to make a living i think this is our moment where we're like at the end of the movie and we're just like i just need to keep pushing it to feel anything you know yeah i mean of course i agree so this movie does that this movie is like i'm gonna make this movie from a perspective that you guys at least are unfamiliar with if not unprecedented way the uh i don't know the dedication to a artistic idea is pushes to

the point of boredom at times like there are moments of like okay it's not quite bellatar slow cinema but it's it's grasping in that direction like it is it is definitely more like gus van zandt's jerry it is, I don't know, like Bill Gunnery's Ceylon or something. Sure. But like it's close. Yeah. It's close.

And then it crescendos every 18 minutes with an incredibly gnarly kill. Yes. So what do you think is wrong with us? You know. I mean, my immediate response is like, I mean, this seems like real world healthier than a porn addiction, right? Absolutely. Because you're not, it's not infringing. Unfortunately for Chris.

Right. It's tough. He's kind of double-checked me there. I was like, I was going to make that joke about you, and I was like, ah. You let it sit, and then I jumped. Yeah. But, you know, to the best of my my knowledge this isn't infringing on your lives as serial we're not hurting anyone yeah yeah so the fact that it's like just getting gnarlier and

gnarlier and the stakes can only be raised in the the you know cinema metaphysical space like that's okay yeah and unlike pornographic films we don't even have to consider the real world consequences of that form of art this is is just some guys in the woods playing with some prosthetics. Yeah. You know? Well, I guess there's some porn that's like that too

but nevertheless. Right. I mean. What's the little masky joke you brought up? I think she's gonna get her cable fixed. I think she's gonna get

her cable fixed. The cable, yeah. Yeah. So I don't, I don't, I don't. It's what you're into. That's fine. Can I tell you something else about this film that I really liked? Yeah, please. don't... It's what you're into. That's fine.

Can I tell you something else about this film that I really liked? Yeah, please. Which I think is available on Shudder. Not yet. It's just in theaters. Just in theaters. It'll be on Shudder, I think, next month.

But this is... And there's two things I want to talk about. The first thing is that Sean and I have remarked upon how a lot of horror films in the last two years especially have explicitly dealt with trauma. So either the trauma of the person who's going to be the final girl,

quote unquote, even if it's a guy, who's got to get through this gauntlet to get over the pain of something like losing their mother or whatever. It's not just horror movies. It's literally all entertainment. Or quote unquote art. This movie, while there is a bit of that with like this killer's backstory, makes an incredible turn at a certain point in this film. And...

Talking about the scene in the car? Yes. Yeah. That actually does communicate what it must feel like to experience something like this and then be like, am I ever going to be safe again? It's an incredible moment. It's a held be safe again? It's an incredible moment. It's a held moment. It's an extended moment in the movie. And I've never really seen it

in quite like it in a horror movie. It would basically be like if at the end of Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which I don't believe you've seen. No. But I'm familiar with the, you know, general shape of it. If Texas Chainsaw Massacre

went on for another 15 minutes of the final girl just being like what the fuck just happened to me yes yes and you can imagine that almost I didn't ask Chris about this that almost feels like the idea yeah to me it was like this is the car came and got you you know now what now you have the rest of your life to think about this moment yeah so it's I you know I didn't think it was a flawless movie or a flawless like conceit right but i have thought more about this movie than any horror film in a long time just feels new it's just exciting when and this is i think one of the reasons why we keep getting stuck

on these horror conversations because i'm like i don't there's not a lot of new stuff in any other kind of movie and in horror they're like constantly trying to push it and upend and subvert. This one's really good. So you think you'll watch it? Probably not. It seems like sort of the half of the horror genre

that really speaks to you guys that it's just I'm not that interested in. I mean, I'm excited to talk about the horror movie that we three saw together because it speaks to the Amanda half

of the of the genre like really well I think and I couldn't tell whether you were fidgeting because you were uncomfortable Chris or because you were like come on like give me some more no I I I I really wasn't it's not like a mental thing it really is like my my butt gets tired on one side and then I have to flip but listen it, it's like, I feel a little bit about this the way I felt watching the Venom trailer, which is the thing that happened, which is I just sat here watching the Venom trailer and he just. You really are just like Andy. I'm just like, I have to, like, you just got to watch this right now. And then he just sat there being like, he, he, he, he.

Venom! Venom! Did you guys do that as content or did you just. Well, Corey was filming. Okay. But it was really mostly like me just not feeling anything looking at a computer screen and and Sean not looking at a computer screen and feeling everything and that's the power of cinema it is yeah can I also say this is now two movies this year pretty much for relatively speaking micro-budget horror movies, which have been like minor sensations in the

sort of box office. With Late Night with the Devil, you mean? Yeah. Same studio. IFC, used to be IFC Midnight, they rebranded to Shudder. Now Shudder is releasing these original movies. Late Night with the Devil, I think made almost $10 million in the box office. And this movie made $2 million on 1,500 screens over the weekend.

I think in part because there were no new wide releases. this is probably as close to a wide release as we got for a new movie but there's just still an audience for this stuff there's still people are still willing to go out in a way that they will not go out to see your beloved the fall guy they will go out to see i think what we learned week to week is that some of them still will, but they'll also rent it at home. Did you ask Chris's Fall Guy review? Have you seen it? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. I watched it on VOD. Okay. I'm sorry. I don't care. That's fine. I watched it on VOD. It met its audience where it is, which is you at home alone. And no, with my wife. Oh. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I don't, I mean, Phoebe's a wild card. I love her so much. There was a point in during the film. Yeah. I'm going to say something and I don't know. I don't, I mean, Phoebe's a wild card. I love her so much. There was a point in, during the film.

Yeah. I'm going to say something and I don't know if I should. There was a point during the film where I felt like her eyes seemed, she was looking at her phone a little bit, which is understandable and we all do it. But I felt like she, you know, I was like getting kind of like, this is really great at the against all odds scene. Yeah. And Fall Guy was like, man, what an awesome climax to this film that now has another hour

and 10 minutes to go. And, but she had this kind of glassy look and I realized that in the ear away from me she had an AirPod in

and was listening to a podcast about Survivor while we were watching the Fall Guy. I mean, I love her. I love her too. I love her. I love her. I love her too. I love her.

I love her so much. That is seriously though, me listening to Rosillo while watching Kevin Costner movies to prep for the Hall of Fame. That's where I'm at with this. Where I'm like, I just got to remember

what Fandango's like and then it'll be fine, you know? Yeah. And there's no shame in that. It's okay. Sometimes you got to double double, you know? If you know the's no shame in that. It's okay. Sometimes you got to double-double, you know? If you know the work,

and in this case, if you don't care about Ryan Gosling, as it seems to be, it's not. I was trying to clean up my Spotify playlists while watching The Accolade last night, and I got like 22 minutes in, and I was like, what is happening? I have no idea what's going on.

Some shows you just can't look down. Yeah. Well, this has been very helpful. I feel like Chris and I better understand ourselves. Amanda, thank you so much for hearing us out. You're so welcome. Let's go to my- And thanks for greeting us and accepting us for who we are.

You're very welcome. I would not say that's what Amanda does to me at all, but I appreciate the effort. Let's go to my conversation with Chris Nash is here. Chris's new movie, In a Violent Nature, blew me away. I watched it at Sundance, not really.

I watched it Sundance virtually in my house, on my couch, alone at one o'clock in the morning. And it was fantastic. So congratulations on the film. Thanks for being here.

Thank you. I was wondering to start, what a wonderful and fucked up movie this is. Was there a movie that you saw when you were growing up that made you think, maybe I could be a filmmaker? No, not especially. I wanted to... I was more of a writer. I just wanted to write.

I was kind of like a storyteller. I loved comics. I kind of wanted to get into that. And comics. I kind of wanted to get into that. And then from there, I wanted to go into animation. So like all through, I always loved animation. I love stop motion. That was kind of like my goal is to become an animator. And then at a certain point in time, at like my last year of high school,

I didn't get accepted to any animation schools. And I was also kind of feeling like, well, if I want to get stories made faster, I should probably just direct real human beings rather than toil away in a room alone and slowly spin out of control. And I don't know if I was right at all. But you're here now. You've made movies now. Sure.

Nearly 25 years later. Was this a long con, though, just to get to animation? Like, is that still something you want to do? I think there's something that's inherently, like, magical about animation that I love. But I don't know if I'd still get into it at all. Like, I might, like, dabble in a short every now and then. It's the kind of thing that I, I really love.

I know like there's some animators out there like, uh, like that work in stop motion, like Robert Morgan, who's a movie stop motion actually just, uh, went to stream and just got released. And, um, uh, Lee Hardcastle is another one. Like one of my, one of the most inspirational movies for me was this short film directed by Wes Archer called Jack Mack and Rad Boy Go. It's just this early proto Beavis and Butthead type thing. He went on to be a director on The Simpsons and King of the Hill and Futurama, I believe. He's so prolific, but it's just a wild little movie. And I don't know, something about the craziness and the inventiveness about animation that you just can't necessarily do in live action that I love.

I can see though, like a through line in the viscerality and the physical nature of your filmmaking that you're thinking about doing things that maybe an animator would imagine, but you wouldn't think necessarily could or would happen in the real world, too. Like, your film is very practical, but also very fantastical simultaneously. Yeah, there's some, like, Looney Tunes slapstick-y deaths in it that, like, I feel are kind of just like, you know, yeah, they're just like slapstick-y jokes. Yeah, yeah, they're puns. Yeah, they're just like slapstick jokes. Yeah, yeah, they're puns. Yeah. I mean, I wonder about that too, because like the movie feels like a movie made by somebody

who really understands horror, the conventions of horror, but is upending or subverting. So maybe you could talk a little bit about coming up with this idea for a sort of first person POV slasher, because I couldn't think of another example of something that really held this concept all the way through a movie. Well, I mean, whether or not it's successful, that's still up for debate. I feel like there are like people that, you know, are really feeling like, oh, it's, you know, it's neat.

It's interesting. It's something I haven't seen before. But then there's others that are completely the opposite side who are just like, this is such a waste of my time. And they're both valid. But the, the initial like conceit for this was when I just got to film school, like I grew up in Northern Ontario. It's, it's kind of where I started just like making movies with a video camera.

And, and I was always into horror. I was always the guy like with, you know, was, was going up to the video store uh renting like seven movies for seven days and just like plowing through them over and over again and and um I had like Fangoria posters in my locker and I was you know which I thought were really cool and and and that like girls would think were're super cool. But no, no, that never happened.

And but when I went like to film school and, you know, in Toronto, I went to York University, didn't graduate, but I went there. And then being involved in like seeing like the film festival for the first time and getting exposed to like modern cinema that was taking chances. And one of the things that really struck me, like as soon as I got there, it was Gus Van Zandt released Jerry. And I would just thought that movie was mesmerizing. Like from the start, I thought it was like really a super interesting concept.

And then, you know, of course he followed that up with Elvent almost right away, and then Last Days. And those movies in particular, I was just really drawn to. And I thought they were magnetic and so compelling. And how they let the characters themselves dictate the pace of the film. And how he just casually had the camera follow them in a really voyeuristic way. And from that point on, being a huge horror fan, I was like, how do we, how would this work in any kind of horror? And it just kind of sat in my head for years and years.

And then I realized that maybe like a slasher would probably be the best way. Because so much about those movies were the environments themselves and like how the characters interacted in those environments. And like a slasher in the woods is, you know, it's kind of the perfect complement to that. So that's where I started with it. And that's kind of what inspired me. And then there were other films. I know this is being marketed as like, you know, something you haven't seen before.

Like everything from the first point of view or, you know know from the point of view of a slasher but you know maybe if you were like a zombie slasher yeah but it's not something that hasn't been done before like one of the other inspirations was definitely um gerald cargill's angst um which is following more of like a serial killer he's he gets out of an institution it's just like one day in his life basically and then he just goes on a murder spree in a house. And the whole time, the camera is... Not the whole time. When you watch it, you feel in your brain afterwards that this is the whole time it's happening. But it does cut away to other characters.

But that one is wall-to-wall narration and music as well, which we decided not to do with this film. I think maybe that's the thing. And it's hard to find the right phrase to set it up. But this feels essentially like you are inside the body of the slasher the entire time. So you're not using the conventions. You're not, there's no score. The pacing is deeply methodical the way that it would be if you were wandering around the woods with this character. So like when you were conceiving of the movie, did you know that you wanted to do

all of these things before you were going into production? Or did you think, hey, we'll try it. This is a kind of experiment as a feature idea. And then maybe if we need music, we'll do music. Or did you have like a philosophy that you were approaching the making the feature with? Yeah, we definitely went in with a philosophy like this whole. I wouldn't necessarily call it an experimental film, but it is an experiment of a film. So we did have our our, you know know obstructions that we were putting in our

place so one of them was no score where i just wanted to have the atmosphere and have the environment be the score um and that was directly influenced by no country for old men just because that's another movie where there's no score but very few people even notice it because it's so effective. And other things where I wanted like academy aspect ratio, like three by four. I was going to ask you about that. Why that choice? Because that's how I watched all the slashers as a kid on VHS.

I was just like, that's the slasher aspect ratio. Okay, that makes sense. I hadn't thought of that. Yeah. Everybody thinks there's a much more artistic reason for that uh because you know that's something that van zandt also used but no it's just it was just a kind of like make a slasher in your mind's eye that's how you see a slasher yeah yeah that's cool and um yeah so we had all those in place and you know it was definitely tempting when you didn't know

whether or not the movie's working that like maybe we should really talk to somebody about about scoring this thing and just having like a heartbeat. Were there any like other expectations that you wanted to upset for someone sitting down for a movie like this? No, I, I, I'm not that antagonistic.

I didn't really like the, the movie really feels like a troll in a lot of ways, but that's not what I was going for. Like I, we all had this impression that we're making this for like five people and then it's going to get buried on streaming and no one will see it, but we'll at least have our, like I'll have my first feature under my belt and that's it.

When did it become clear that wasn't going to be the case? Um, getting into Sundance, playing Sundance now. I think the reactions, like when we first did like submissions to festivals and even like when the financiers saw it

for the first time and they're like, wow, this is really something. That's when we're like, oh, maybe this does have legs. And then Sundance, then it got in Sundance and, you know,

we also felt like, wow, that's really interesting. But at the same time, like both my co-producers and producing partners and creative producing partners, I always want to make that clear. They're very much creatives. Peter Koplowski and Shannon Hammer, they both work in film festivals as well. And I've been taking like a backseat to that for years. So like during screener season, I'm always watching screeners with Pete and Shannon. And I know that film festival programmers have a different mindset where they

are watching middle of the road all the time. And, and there's something, there's this thing I've been telling Pete where it's like, it's like you just have a steady diet of vanilla ice cream and it's not bad, but it's, it diet of vanilla ice cream. And it's not bad, but it's just vanilla ice cream. And then somebody just hands you an ice cream cone with a dollop of dog shit on it. And you taste it. And you're just like, hey, this is different.

There's something about this. It's different. And everybody from the outside will be like, there's dog shit on your ice cream cone. But you're like, I don't know. There's something different about this. I'm kind of interested. That's very self-effacing. Maybe more just like Rocky Road, not dog shit.

Oh, no. Someone on the front lines of this. Let me tell you. That's what it is. Was that part of your thinking too is that you would be able to get people's attention in part because this is a little different even though you're inspired by jerry or you're inspired by angst like this doesn't feel like a certainly not a horror movie that you see at a festival um and certainly not a conventional slasher so like

is there any kind of strategy to your creativity that goes into that when you're trying to get something done no not necessarily it like we just i don't know maybe if i was you know 25 making a movie i would definitely be a lot more calculated about like okay this is the kind of thing to do but making my first feature at 40 it's been a lot of like, I got nothing to lose and I'm interested in seeing this movie. So if we can convince, if we can fool somebody into funding this, then let's make it and just see what comes out. So I've read just a little bit about some of the work that you've done on other films and working with your friends over the years.

And it seems like you have a real affinity for working with prosthetics and makeup effects. And I, you know, that's a little, one, a little bit of a lost art and two, especially in indie horror. It's like, it's kind of the last bastion of it in many ways. Like, I wonder if you just talk a little bit about some of the things you have been doing before you got to this point to make this movie. Cause it's a bit of a undiscovered world right now in movies. I kind of was always doing prosthetics like out of necessity, especially working in just making my own things in Northern Ontario. There's no prosthetic scene. So I was lucky enough

to start doing that at the time that DVDs were being released with a lot of like behind the scenes featurettes on like the making of, you know, different like monsters and stuff. And I just got to learn through that. And it was also internet 1.0 too. So, you know, we're not watching videos on how to do things, but we're seeing step-by-step instructions of like how to actually cast and mold a face and stuff like that. Is it just your kind of typical, like your Savini's and Botin's and Rick Baker's? Like who are you going to teach you how to do some of these things? Or is there like a much deeper universe of learning how to do some of this

stuff on DVD feature ads? It's, it's more just like you pick and choose between like, there's definitely people that you look, you thought, Oh, these, these are,

these are the, the artists that are like rock stars and they're, they're doing this and they're like making high caliber work. But I knew that's not me. So I'm just scraping by doing like arts and craftsy type effects work. And, and yeah, by the time I got into film school,

I was the only person that did that. So anytime somebody needed something, I would give them like, I would be the one doing that and just gradually through the years learning how to do it. And just working in my backyard, like backyard garage effects person. And my friend and, you know, fellow prosthetics artist and director Steve Kostanski, he was doing his feature film called The Void. Super cool movie. Yeah, it's a great movie.

It's super fun. Also shot in the same city as In a Violent Nature. But when he was doing that, we had both come off of working on an anthology film called ABCs of Death 2, where he had a segment and I had a segment. And we'd known each other for a couple of years. We were introduced through both our producers.

Peter Koplowski produced both of our films. And so we were just like helping each other out. He was helping me with a music video at the time. And he was like, why don't you just come and work in my shop, work in the Void shop and work on the film. And I was super nervous to do it because i just done back you know garage stuff and then when i went there i realized oh we're all doing the same thing we're all just kind of figuring it out as we go along and like experimenting and it's all you know i don't necessarily know how to use the same materials

as everyone else but it's all kind of the same it's all you know a very boots on the ground engineering how we're going to get something done and from there I worked in a couple of shops afterwards and and uh just did that always like kind of hone those skills and got an understanding of how to do it while I was still writing and developing and trying to get stuff done so so related to that I was curious if you could talk through the process, essentially from like conception and writing the screenplay all the way through execution. There's a showstopper kill in the movie that people like love when they see it in the theater and they get really excited and they laugh and they're disgusted and all the things that I assume

you were going for. But this sort of, I guess it's like a is it a log pulling hook that that is used in the in the sequence yeah so like i often ask action filmmakers this when you are thinking of a kill especially an elaborate kill like walk me through you had the idea what goes into the screenplay and then how does it evolve as you're on set um so the kill, you, you want to do original stuff. You want to do stuff that like the, the only thing we can do is try to make things that people haven't seen before. And when you work in prosthetics and, and, um, I was talking about my friend, Steve Kostansky, who was the prosthetics lead on this would also attend to the fact that it does get a little boring.

You are always required to do the exact same thing over and over again like it's another float throw it slash it's another stab and it's all neat and everybody like really thinks it's neat on set but you do want to do things different so I was going in with that attitude but the writer in me is also like you want to do something that is very indicative and very unique to the weapons that your slasher is utilizing. So for that kill specifically, I was like, I don't want it to be something that could be, you know, that a machete could emulate. So I just started like, okay, well, what, how do you are these are hooks that our slasher uses that

were from the logging industry that used to pull logs so let's let's do something that involves pulling and then then you kind of work out from there as far as like okay if i wanted what appendage could you be pulling and then how do you get into that situation? And it is like a problem-solving thing where you're like kind of starting almost from the middle and working backwards to the beginning. And then once you find your ending, being like, is that really the ending? Or can I go further?

Like, where do we cross the Rubicon on this? And there is no point of return where no matter how soon they call the ambulance, they're not going to fix them. Do you find that you have to improvise when something isn't working in an effect like that? Or is it because of your experience, you're able to conceive it and execute on it

in exactly the way that you want to? Yes and no. There's always, you always have to have some wiggle room. I'm incredibly stubborn though. And one of the things, I'm going to bring Steve Kostansky up all the time, but he's someone I very much admire as far as work ethic and directing and prosthetics ability but um we've kind of we've taken the stance of all the effects should the majority of them should be done in a whole second year because there's too many times we've been on set working on giant productions where there's been a build that we've been engineering for weeks and we get on set and they're you know the adl come up to us and say

all right you know it looks like we're going to be getting to this by uh before lunch and then you'll be out of here and you know you'll have time everything will be great every single time no matter what without fail it's always the very last shot of the day and you have five minutes to pull it off and it never works right and you don't have time to reset it and that's and then it just gets painted over vfx anyway um so we always give ourselves the time to do it in a in an entire like separate unit and and then you can make mistakes you can correct yourself you can stay until the the job is done the effect is what you want it to do um and it's one of these things that if we weren't artists and directing at the same like as well you know we probably wouldn't

give ourselves that time is your intention to keep working in this mode like working in horror working prosthetics driven films like what what kind of what happens now that you have broken through with this who knows uh you must have ideas i mean yeah i've definitely got ideas i just uh i think i've been it's it's been such a long road getting here that i know ideas are kind of worthless uh it's, you know, I can have an idea for a flying car, but that's still just an idea.

It's, yeah, it's all just a matter of like, whatever I'm writing next and I do love, everything I do is going to have

sort of a more transgressive angle to it regardless. I think that's just kind of how I, how I work and how I write. But I would love if I could, you know, just do a two-hander rom-com,

but I don't think I've got it in me. I just don't. Maybe finding a way to subvert that with your skills would be exciting. Yeah, that's probably what's going to happen. Okay, that's good to know. I think about this all the time because I, too too am in my

40s and i too am uh still interested in horror and still watching as much as i can and still curious and still have that thing where when i watch a kill like that great one that we just talked about in your film i'm just like laughing to myself and just very like delighted to see something new like what you're describing and i don't totally know why i still have that feeling but it's obvious that you do because of like the patience and creativity that's going into your work like what do you think it is in the human spirit that makes us excited to watch this kind of thing or to get invested in this kind of thing 75 years or 80 years after we first started watching horror? It's not something I think about too much.

It's, I don't know whether I should. I just, I try not to question why I enjoy things. You'll never be a podcaster. It's just like, it's one of these where I don't want to ruin. I don't want to figure, I don't want to figure I did. I never want to have this realization that I'm enjoying something for the wrong reason. I'm not suggesting that.

Yeah. Um, I don't know what it is. There's, there's some things. There's just that thing with, um, with like genre film where if it's hitting right,

you just get so much joy out of it. And you just, you just enjoy the thrill. It makes me giddy. I think the last film to really do this for me was When Evil Lurks. I've seen it, yeah. Incredible.

Yeah, there's that whole scene in the middle with the dog. Yeah, from the axe to the dog is insane. Yeah, I'm just on the edge of my seat the whole time. And that was another screener that I was watching with Pete the entire time.

I'm just like, this is so good. This is so great, Pete. And I love getting that feeling. It's few and far between lately. Yeah, there's

definitely something similar in terms of the feeling that you get from watching that movie and watching your movie, which is like, on one hand i hope i say this out of respect something like deeply depraved about what's going on but it's so creative and so funny and so exciting that it's a unique alchemical feeling that i think a lot of people are still looking for at the movies that is absent in a lot of big mainstream movies right now um that's just one

reason that i think i continue to be interested in and I don't know do you have like a relationship to you know modern movies do you find yourself going to the movie theater all the time or do you just have like the things that you like

and you stick to that somewhere down the line somewhere in the last like 10 years I just I lost it I don't know what it is I just I watch

less and less film and I find myself just revisiting movies that I've seen before. And I'm not trying to like get that feeling with new movies when I know I can get it.

I know I've had it before. And I know I'm just like looking through old girlfriends on Instagram essentially. But it's still just like, yeah, there's something dependable about it that that I can

you know one of the movies that I revisit lately that I I love is Connor McPhee or Since the Eclipse and

I just when I get that I just know it's there I know it's there to always watch again and and

this I guess the joy of the hunt isn't necessarily there for me anymore and i really wish it was i'm hoping there's something that could like inspire that again but but uh i'm also just concentrating more on on working and i feel like there is a period in your life as an artist where it's you're just you're you're just doing recon you're watching everything you can you're like devouring everything you can and then there's a period in your life as an artist where it's, you're just, you're, you're just doing recon. You're watching everything you can. You're like devouring everything you can. And then there's a point where you do have to sit down and focus on work.

And I think like over the last 10 years, I've kind of been on that. One last thing I wanted to ask you about is kind of sustainability and the ability to make, make a living doing this. Obviously this is your first feature and you've been working with friends and working in practical effects. But what is it like to try to make a living

as an independent filmmaker, regardless of the genre or who you're making movies for? Well, houses are always going to need drywall. And as long as I can keep doing drywall, I feel like I'm not going to starve. And that's how it is. I think, you know, you're just lucky to make anything.

And it would be amazing to be able to just do this forever. But especially with AI, everything is so uncertain all the time. And I personally feel like film is going to become a boutique thing. Like the mass film is going to be done by AI. And then there are going to be these benefactors that are just essentially hiring filmmakers saying like, make me a piece of art for like $2 million. And that's where film is going to eventually live. What's the timeline on that one, Chris? Six months.

That's like a... I have to find another way to work then too, I think. Chris, we end every episode of the show by asking filmmakers

what's the last great thing they've seen. You did mention When the Evil Lurks. You mentioned The Eclipse. Is there anything else you've seen recently that you really responded to?

Another movie I rewatched is Noah Bushell's The Phenom. I haven't seen that. It is. I love baseball movies. If I could make a baseball movie, I would die happy. But this is one of the best baseball movies I've ever seen.

It's very little baseball in it. It stars Johnny Simons as a pitcher on his way to the majors, but he is a phenom, but he's like, he's, he is a phenom, but he gets the yips, has to go to a sports psychologist, um,

played by Paul Giamatti and they kind of get to the heart of it. And at the same time, um, the pitcher's father is getting out of jail. And we learned that he's been this like overshadowing figure in his life. That's essentially trained him to become a pitcher and played by

Ethan Hawke and it's just amazing performances all around Noah Bushel is an incredible director that I feel is

incredibly overlooked but yeah it's a great great movie it's a fantastic recommendation Chris congratulations on In a Vinyl Nature

thanks for doing the show thanks so much Sean appreciate it with me. It's a fantastic recommendation. Chris, congratulations on In a Vinyl Nature. Thanks for doing the show. Thanks so much, Sean. Appreciate it. Thanks so much to Chris Nash. Thank you to Chris Ryan. Thank you to Amanda Dobbins. Thanks to our producer, Bobby Wagner. Thanks to our video producer, Corey McConnell. Please stay tuned to The Big Picture. Later this week, we will be talking about Hitman, the new film starring Glenn Powell, directed by Richard Linklater. We'll see you then.