The Big Picture - ‘Hot Frosty’ and ‘Moana 2’: What Even Are Movies?

Episode Date: November 27, 2024

Sean is joined by Rob Harvilla and Yasi Salek to discuss two movies for the fun of it—‘Moana 2’ and ‘Hot Frosty.’ They start by reacting to the new ‘Yacht Rock: A Dockumentary’ (01:40) before discussing the surprising self-awareness, Easter eggs, and music in ‘Hot Frosty’ (04:59). Then, they share their movie-watching experiences while watching ‘Moana 2’ and how it compares to ‘Moana’ (36:50). Before Yasi and Rob leave, they share the movies they are looking forward to at the end of 2024 (62:40). Later, Sean is joined by filmmaker Garret Price to discuss ‘Yacht Rock: A Dockumentary’ (74:56). Created after he finished editing ‘Daisy Jones and the Six,’ he talks about finding the perfect commentators and getting all the bands to be involved. Host: Sean Fennessey Guests: Rob Harvilla, Yasi Salek, and Garret Price Producer: Olivia Crerie Video Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Look, it's not that confusing. I'm Rob Harvilla, host of the podcast 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, except we did 120 songs. And now we're back with the 2000s. I refuse to say aughts. 2000 to 2009. The Strokes, Rihanna, J-Lo, Kanye, sure. And now the show is called 60 Songs That Explain the 90s, colon the 2000s.

Wow. That's too long a title for me to say anything else right now. Just trust me. That's 60 songs that explain the 90s, colon the 2000s, starting Wednesday, October 2nd, preferably on Spotify. What's in this McDonald's bag? The McValue Meal. For $5.79 plus tax, you can get your choice of junior chicken, McDouble, or chicken snack

wrap, plus small fries and a small fountain drink. So pick up a McValue meal today at participating McDonald's restaurants in Canada. Prices exclude delivery. I'm Sean Fennessey, and this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Moana and Hot Frosty, two very different climates in the vast ecological crisis known as movies in 2024. Later in this episode, something a little bit warmer, I have a conversation with Garrett Price, the filmmaker behind Yacht Rock, a documentary, which is the new film in the Ringers Music Box series with HBO and Max. The movie premieres on the network and the platform on November 29th. I chatted with Garrett about what Yacht Rock actually is and this incredibly fun movie and how he made it.

I'm very proud to be a part of this movie. And I'm also very proud to have the beautiful father and daughter of the Ringer music podcast experience here on the show. We've got the host of 60 songs that explain the 90s colon the 2000s, Rob Harvilla returning and for her first appearance ever on the big picture, the host of Bandsplain, Yasi Salek. Hi guys. You're welcome, Ana. I'm so excited. What can I say except you're welcome. I'm so thrilled to be here for Yasi's debut. This is a historic occasion. This has Yalta energy what's happening right now. I'm so thrilled to be here to talk about Moana too. A gift. I genuinely, well, we'll get to Moana too and why you're here, Yossi. But before we

do, you guys saw the Outrock movie? Yes. We did. What'd you think of that movie? Rob, do you want to go first? I thought it was phenomenal with the caveats that this is a Spotify operation. Rob, you don't have to say that. Come on. You're an objective critic and everyone knows it. I'm trying. I am very objective. And the Steely Dan moment in this movie at the end of this movie is one of the loveliest and most hilarious things I've seen in a documentary, a music documentary in some time. And so I had, I had a blast, just majestic hair, just the plumage in this movie alone, you know, just very aspirational for me personally. I thought it was fantastic. I really did. I dadded the hell out, man.

And it was fabulous. It really is. I amded the hell out, man. And it was fabulous. Your hair is kind of blooming today. It really is. I am recovering from the worst haircut I have ever received as an adult. I came home and my wife yelped. It was horrifying. I had to do like public events with the worst haircut I've ever had as an adult.

And so now this is it growing out and it's asymmetrical. It's like punk rock over here. You're like a young Steve Lukather from Toto. There is no greater compliment you could pay me. I was going to say a flock of seagulls, but I greatly prefer Steve Lukather. Thank you. I'm working on it.

Yossi, what's your story? You hate Steely Dan? I don't hate anybody, Sean. My heart is pure. Fish. You hate fish. That's not an emotion that I contain. I do have like a scoach of PTSD. As you know, the first episode of bandsplain ever was Steely Dan and we did have

to record it like seven different times to get it right. And is it my cup of tea? No. So I was going into the watching the viewing of this documentary made by my benevolent employers. Just a little, I was a little stealing myself, if you'll allow it. And I had a great time against all odds. Even me, I had the best time. I didn't know Toto went so hard, babe. That was my main takeaway. I was like, Toto goes so hard.

That is really the big revelation. I actually said that to Garrett. I was like, Toto, who knew? Sold a show, honestly. Playing on 5,000 records through the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Sweet Lord. Good energy, questionable music video. Just like it had everything that you would ever want.

I really enjoyed myself. And you know I love spaces where women are not welcome. So that also I found it delightful. Like music podcasting, for example. Like music podcasting, yacht rock. Yeah. You asked me to come here. I appreciate that, Prav, the level of co-sign from both of you.

This is an in-house project. But it is a film that I would say is in the spirit of the missions that you guys have had excavating and spelunking your way through music history so expertly. We're not going to talk about music right off the bat here. The original plan for this episode, well, I'll tell you, you know, Rob and I have had some conversations as grown men with families about animated films made for children over the years on the pod. Amanda's joined us a couple of times for those conversations. They're always heartful, you know, sincere, deep, maybe a little creepy, but ultimately well-meaning.

Figured, why not run it back? Moana 2, one of the signature Disney movies of the 21st century. Very highly anticipated film. And the early words started trickling out on the movie. Hmm. I wanted to. This was supposed to be a TV show. Now it's a movie.

Is this movie going to be good? Maybe it's not going to be good. It's going to make a lot of money. But do the listeners of Big Picture really care about this movie? I'm not sure. Then I started thinking, how do we spice up the dad conversation? What agent of change can we bring into this mix? And it dawned on me that Yossi,

you know, Yossi, we were going to talk about The Crow this year on the pod because you love the original Crow film. I do. And that soundtrack is, I think, very meaningful, honestly, for the three of us, a bunch of 90s kids. And we had high hopes for The Crow remake,

reimagining with Bill Skarsgård. That movie stunk. So we didn't even devote an episode to it. I think I spent four minutes on it on one episode in August. And you were traveling the world at that time, so you couldn't join us. And so I figured, why not join us for Moana 2? Then saw Moana 2, and I was like, Moana 2 ain't it.

You know, this is not enough for a full convo. And I had noticed that a little film had been dominating film discourse by the name of Hot Frosty. And I sent you guys a little film had been dominating film discourse by the name of Hot Frosty. And I sent you guys a note. And I said, I need you both to watch Hot Frosty tonight if you have the time. This was like 7, 15 p.m. Rob's time. Nine. Nine?

Yeah. Nine p.m.? That's closer to nine. I was walking out of the theater with my children having watched Moana 2. Same, actually. It wasn't 9 p.m. Yeah, it was a little after that. You walked out of the theater with my children having watched Moana 2. Same, actually. It wasn't 9 a.m., but. Yeah, it was a little after 9. You walked out of the theater with Rob's children?

I did. Kidnapping. I did walk out of the theater with children, if you believe it. Did you? So many children at my screening. Holy Lord. Did you get any weird looks at the theater? I didn't go alone.

Okay. Because I'm a journalist, I was like, I didn't go alone. I, I'm okay because I'm a journalist. I was like, I need to bring children with me to understand how this is landing for the target audience. So I asked my friend who has multiple children, can we bring some of those? Pick one. I don't care.

And, um, you seem like such a loving ant figure. And actually I'm very popular with these children and i do love them deeply um but yes she brought two one my my love leo who's between seven and eight and uh the literal or one georgia who i think is about three or four she's a little there was there was like a literal newborn next to us. I do actually really enjoy the chaos. I guess I'm not familiar with it because you are not going to

catch me again in a Disney movie film in the theater day it comes out, but who cares, right? It's like kids are screaming, kids are yelling, kids are dancing. It's kind of, that part was awesome. And like, no one's shushing you can't shush it's a movie for children they're not can't be expected you had a more fun theater going experience than i had i had some drinks i had some drinks also so yeah well it seems like you both partook last night and now i regret not having done that because i sent you this note after seeing the movie to watch hot frosty rob shout out to you at 9pm. You and I watched it. I know. Impressive. I'm a professional.

You really are. I mean, Yossi Aidid is a journalist. I'm not sure if you guys are journalists anymore. But you are committed to the cause of cinema. I'm a content creator. That's what I've been saying on the show recently. And it's meant to be arch, but it's actually not.

It's hurtful is what it is. It's hurtful. sean i think it was like literally a christmas miracle that you sent that message because i was not feeling good leaving the theater post chicken fingers and some alcohol um and then i got the message and i was like oh my god hot frosty i'm so excited i've been wanting to watch this film and i got home and it was like, oh, my God, Hot Frosty. I'm so excited. I've been wanting to watch this film. And I got home and it was like the most beautiful palate cleanser. Like I went to bed happy. So for anyone who is not familiar with the phenomenon that is Hot Frosty, it's a new movie that you can watch on Netflix. of somewhat cheaply made, certainly absurd holiday fairy tale style stories that are run out over the course of the final eight weeks of the year across streaming services. You know, Hallmark is probably

best known for these films that are often just typical romances. But over the years, Netflix has really stepped in and been really cranking these things out. They started out a little bit more high concept and high budget. You know, the Kurt Russell Santa Claus film, for example, that was like kind of close to a real movie. Hot Frosty, which is directed by Jerry Chikoriti, who is one of my favorite filmmakers and is written by Russell Hanlon. He's Canadian. He's Canadian. Great. That explains it. Is quite a fascinating document. It's a movie about a widow who counters her loneliness

with a magical snowman who is brought to life and when he comes to life it becomes clear that he is fucking hot. He's a very handsome fellow and he's a fellow who is very eager to spend time with this young widow. This movie is completely deranged.

Rob, what did you think of Hot Frosty? I don't want to be crude, but I thought she was going to fuck the snowman. Yeah. I was told she was going to fuck the snowman. I told my wife she was going to fuck the snowman, and that is why she agreed to watch it. And when it became clear that she was not going to fuck the snowman, my wife went on gonna fuck the snowman and that is why she agreed to watch it and when it became clear that she was not gonna fuck the snowman my wife went on her phone right you know so i i felt i like why are you gonna show me something if i can't have it as i believe kevin garnett once said right so i i enjoyed this movie immensely i enjoyed it a great deal more than moana 2 i think

you will all agree but but I was fundamentally like, what are we doing here? If you're not going to fuck the snowman. I'm so sorry. That would be my first note. You, you were expecting to like see snowman hole. Is that what you're saying? That is not what I said. Full ice penetration. That is what I wanted. Yes. Yeah. Just, just on the Netflix Christmas. I, I'm not asking for porn necessarily, but I am asking for some, I was promised some spiciness. I had, I had zero drinks at Moana too. I had two gin and tonics during hot frosty and I considered an unprecedented third gin and tonic. I cannot recall the last time I had three. I was curious what would happen and how that would affect my perception of this movie.

I don't know if she had fucked a snowman, if that would have made me more likely or less likely to drink the third gin and tonic. I just wanted a hint of spiciness, right? I wanted implied fucking of spiciness Right I wanted implied Fucking of the snowman Okay You know One

Yossi I'm very eager for your thoughts About this film Two I do Rob when you talk about Having two and Yearning for a third But resisting a third Gin and tonic

I feel so close to you Like it's remarkable Right I've been talking about How much less I drink Now these days But sometimes you do need it I was fearing uh i have a full day with my beautiful daughter today as soon as we finish recording and so um because my wife is at home cooking a lovely thanksgiving

dinner and so the idea yes that's right we are gender essentialists here at the big picture that's right and um the idea that I would be recovering from a third gin and tonic is not imaginable to me. So I didn't drink during this film. But Yossi, I didn't even know this about you,

but this movie is like right in your prime area of movie watching interest. Tell me about it. Okay. First of all, not to nitpick, but you said the snowman

becomes hot when he comes to life. I think we can all agree that the actual snowman was also like aggressively anatomically hot from the beginning. Like it was almost like who made this, who made this like Adonis snowman in the middle of the regular snowmans for the contest. No, I love every year. I cannot wait for this time of year. And I queue up these films.

There's always new ones, but I also always rewatch the old ones. And it's maybe one of my favorite film genres. So why? There's just like a level of delight that they bring about in me. They're not trying to be anything they're not, you know, they're really just giving it to you straight, which is here is often an insane conceit. Every conceit is insane. They do not operate within the world of reason or physics. Those things don't matter. What matters is the Christmas spirit. And it's so fun. And I think, I mean, I'm sure we'll talk about it, but like

you mentioned the Hallmark ones, I think they did probably start out kind of earnest, right? But what's happened and it's amazing is that like now they're just winking at themselves all the time which is so fun it's so fun to watch like i i live for it i fucking live for it give me inject it directly into my veins is what i what's the best one what is the apex mountain of self-aware christmas movies i think the one that i always come back to is the princess switch trilogy. The that's the Vanessa Hudgens. She's I think Vanessa Hudgens, Lacey Chabert,

who we'll talk about who's in hot frosty and low hands kind of gunning for their, for their positions. These are the top, top Queens of the holiday film. Um, but the princess switch one through three are truly each conceit because the godfather of the genre. To get to the third one when you already have the most insane proposition for the first one. Chef's kiss.

What you have to come up with for them to like have a third switch of people. So good. So as you might imagine, I don't have as much experience with you, Yossi, with these movies. No. I'll pop in on a phenomenon here and then, but The Princess Switch, for example, to me, that's up there with the lesser-known Kieslowski movies. I'll get around to it eventually,

but it's not high on my watch list. And so I'm wondering, you pointed out what I think is the most amusing and maybe important thing about Hot Frosty, which is this high degree of self-awareness, of winking at the audience, of the acknowledgement that even by the standards of silly streaming Christmas movies, this premise is fucking weird. And maybe even a little upsetting if you really drill down on it. And so like, are these are the other movies as as as knowing about the absurdity of what they're presenting to the audience? Yeah, I think so. Like a lot of them will have like little winks to other holiday movies in them. This one actually has two in it, which we can talk about.

I don't know if you guys caught those Easter eggs. But some of them aren't. Some of them are just like, I need you to get on board. Suspend your fucking disbelief, babe. It's Christmas. And you're like, yes, I will. Thank you.

Take me away. Calgon, take me away. So by the standards of these movies, where does Hot Frosty stack up? Like A tier, B tier? Hot Frosty was so delightful, but also is almost a little too self-aware. Not in a bad way, but it almost puts itself outside of the genre a little bit. But then it doesn't. It's so bizarre because I'm like, you cast Lacey Chabert, who plays it exactly like she plays every other holiday movie, which literally seems like she learned the lines yesterday and is coming in to cash the check. And it's not her fault.

Every heroine in these movies is aggressively earnest and doesn't really have a lot to do. But then you stick in these like like right like comedic actors like you have the guy from the state you have the woman from joe latrulio joe latrulio um katie is that her name katie mixon the woman from eastbound eastbound and down is so funny and the hot snowman was the himbo veterinarian on schitt's creek and now he's the Himbo snowman. Yes. Dustin Milligan is the actor. Craig Robinson. And Craig Robinson of course is the sheriff.

So when Craig Robinson shows up as the sheriff of this town in this movie Rob I was like oh okay. Right. This movie is kidding.

Like this isn't meant to be a Hallmark film. There's one of the questions I had for you guys was is the only person who knows what movie he's in is Craig Robinson be a hallmark film there's there the quite one of the questions i had for you guys was is the only person who knows what movie he's in is craig robinson or is craig robinson the

only person who doesn't realize what movie he's in rob what do you think i think he realizes what movie he's in i think he's in a different movie than everybody else on purpose until the end into the big climax right uh in which he extorts everyone in the town for two thousand dollars just to immediately i guess that's a spoiler i'm sorry uh this is pre-inflation by the way i thought that two thousand dollars number seemed a tad low i well i how do you calibrate what was the snowman's crime that he should have such a high bail in general i thought it was theft right it was streak and he broke the very thin pane of glass i you know it's just he just he leaned against it and it broke i don't think that part was his vandalism quite frankly public obscenity

hooliganism yeah did you guys elegantism did you guys raise in a ruckus Broadly that's 2000 bucks right there At least where I come from It did look like where you come from Hope Springs does kind of It was giving where you Come from okay so Craig Robinson Is the guy in Hot tub time machine who looks

At the camera and goes it's a hot Tub time machine right like I do I do source a lot of the self-awareness of movies like that to that moment. Right. And there isn't, there isn't a fourth wall break per se. I, the one Easter egg, like they're watching TV and Lindsay Lohan is on TV and she says, I went to high school with her. Like I rewound that for my wife. Like I made her watch that part. That was Falling for Christmas, by the way, that was on the TV, which is another holiday movie that Lindsay Lohan is in. Because she's in the hospital.

I was very concerned for her. Like she does. She ends up all right in that movie. Right. Because she seemed to be in some distress. Right. Like, I don't know if it's. Nobody dies in these movies.

Okay. Thank goodness. So I, there's a self-awareness, but I, I didn't think it reached the point of poisonous, right? Like it wasn't meta in a way that irritated me, you know? And I do think that everyone was pretty clear on how absurd this was, but then the moment when they're all together and they start, like the doctor is back, the eastbound and down doctor is back. And they're like, how is, what are the physical, like, what's happening? And she's like, it's Christmas. Like, literally, it's Christmas.

It's so good. It's Christmas. That is my only, that is my diagnosis. It is Christmas time. And everyone's like, that sounds great. And then the movie proceeds from there. I think this movie could have been way more irritating about the meta winking, self-aware aspect. And I do think that Craig

is just, he's just singing songs like in the middle of the movie for no real reason. But like, I enjoyed that aspect of it tremendously. Honestly. You know, Rob, you kind of got ahead of where I wanted this conversation to go from. I apologize.

From a sensual and sexual perspective. I just, you know, on this show, Amanda has a science corner and amanda is not here and so we cannot have amanda science corner but i'm not sure any film short of dune part two has asked for a science corner more than the film about defrosting the hot snowman yeah and then you know in the film like yasi helped me with this in. In the film, what are even the sort of native mythological origins of snowmen?

It's not as though he is descended. Do we have any? Frosty? Frosty came alive. Frosty the snowman. But he retained his snowiness. Sure. He was still essentially snow.

Right. This person takes on human corporeal form. You can't be horny for the snowman made of snow. You have to be horny for this flesh and blood man that was previously a snowman. I mean, that raises another question, which is, is Lacey Chabert

even horny for this snowman? Other women in the town are very horny. Oh, boy. Lauren Holly, I mean, God bless her. I've never sold my stock ever since seeing her. No, she killed it.

She slayed, babe. She slayed. She is just a legend. And she's obviously hot for that snow. But there's a whole cougar section. She's grieving.

Yeah, she's grieving. You need to. And Katie Mixon, she wants some of the snow. So this guy becomes, he becomes a man. Yeah. And he watches

a lot of television. Right. And he learns how to cook and he learns how man. Yeah. And he watches a lot of television. Right. And he learns how to cook and he learns how to fix things. And I guess he's, he's sort of unfrozen with the knowledge of English as a communicative language. That was one of my things where I was like, so you, it was giving a little bit Encino man, except Encino man obviously had him not know English because that makes more sense. But he knew knew english but no colloquialisms so he was like an immigrant who had learned english and like didn't know what

like let the cat out of the bag means you know what i mean or like lay low or like the concept of cancer which i suppose snowmen don't get cancer but that part i was like oh okay sure very a lot of strange choices and you know like they all start to add forgive me for doing this but i wouldn't be myself if I didn't do this. It's like at a certain point, I'm like, is this a Louis Bunuel movie? Like, is this Dali? Like there's a surrealism to some of the creative decision making, right? I really feel like you're not giving this film enough credit.

Well, I'd like to try. I just I don't really fully understand. I think it may be all these years of watching all this IP. I'm like, like well how do these pieces fit together but there's no there are no pieces right no this the man who wrote this movie i i'm obsessed with him i went and checked out his website and read an interview with him he clearly i mean forgive me if this isn't true but he seems like just a big-ass stoner who was like wouldn't it be fucking funny if and then he just took that

way too far but like exactly far enough thank god it looks like he's also written other christmas movies what a dream job i would love this job where you just come up with it don't you think yeah totally can i just nitpick for one it's really funny none of that stuff bothered me it didn't bother me that he's um melting but he won't remove the like extremely heavy woolen scarf even though he's hot all the time what bothered me was that there was a snake plant in uh kath is that her name kathy's home that doesn't have heat snake plants are like um native to zone 9 10 places and they actually cannot live in temperatures under 50 degrees and it was such a robust snake plant and that was the thing the only thing that i was like damn i would have caught

that i would have put a different plant in here rob did you see that like the real yasi just popped what the hell is a zone 910 plant what are you talking about this is woman's work gardening as you might know and these are the zones where plants grow what the hell zone what zone is california nine and ten that's what i'm saying like this is not a plant that would survive in hope springs anywhere usa by the way oh is it okay so it's freezing i mean it was freezing and snowing outside. You know it's below 50 degrees in that heater-less house. That plant would have been dead, is all I'm saying. The guy went to a junior high

and just hung out at a junior high for half a movie doing like flash mob dances. And your issue is the plant? Yeah. In her house. Yeah. Okay. All right. Sure. I made a very good choice having you both here house. Okay. All right.

Sure. I made a very good choice having you both here for this conversation. The plant brought no joy and delight. All the other things work to propel the plot forward. Another question for you. What happens when a hot defrosted snowman overheats? Like, does he die and return to snow form does he become water does he just become a dead human body like what because there's all this suggestion that like

oh my god he doesn't cool down if he doesn't get some ice in his system right you know this what's his name jack jack my jack my name is jack it's like they keep talking about him you know like he's a for Tempo or something. I don't really... I didn't get it. Well, luckily, what about the line where he was like, I could wake up tomorrow

and be a puddle? Yeah. Who among us? Chef's kiss. Perfect writing. What about... I'm sorry, excuse me. The pretty woman montage?

Oh, boy. They paid money to license pretty woman, God bless, for the shopping montage Roy Orbison Just spinning in his grave With the snapping

Of the jewelry box With the snowman cufflinks Give them I rewound that as well Ten Oscars babe Ten Oscars I loved it so much Ten Oscars

That's right It was that great thing Do you want ten Oscars For the same category Or ten Oscars Spread across all categories This film was better Than Anora

I'm sorry I'll say it I'm the categories. This film was better than Anora. I'm sorry, I'll say it. I'm the only one brave enough to say it. Anora wishes. Honestly, they have a lot to say to each other. They're in dialogue. They're very much in conversation. It's really true. Have you seen Anora yet, Rob?

I have not, no. If it's gotten to Ohio, I'm not aware of it. I don't think it has. Yeah, it's weird. It hasn't gotten to Hope Springs. We're in a zone 10 movie environment and movies like Enora cannot thrive

here I was thinking about doing Yossi's Oscars corner on this episode because you were sharing some some fiery takes some spicy takes yeah well we can talk about that later I do have again I only see four movies a year or so.

If you don't count the Christmas movies. Before we move on from Hot Fog. No, we're not moving on because I need to tell you about the other Easter egg you didn't catch. Oh, what is it? Yeah, please, please. The part where she, Kathy goes, oh yeah, I think it's about him being a snowman. And she's like, yeah, and I'm the queen of Cordonia. I wondered about that line.

That's right. There's a film called Royal Christmas 2014 starring Lacey Chabert where she does become the queen of Cordonia. I wondered about that line. That's right. There's a film called Royal Christmas 2014 starring Lacey Chabert, where she does become the queen of Cordonia. What is Cordonia? They make these fake places. There's one, the one in Princess, which is like,

oh my God, what is it called? Belgravia. A lot of the Christmas films involve people becoming royalty by accident or fate, which is really great. Sure. A few notes on Lacey Chabert. Yes. Obviously, the joke where Lohan appears on screen is a reference to her time in Mean Girls.

Interesting year for the Mean Girls extended universe of the musical in January. And yeah, it seems like, I don't know, I guess in some respects Mean Girls is back in the culture. Lacey Chabert,

she's got two modes, right? She's got sickly sweet and surprised. And I don't, can she do any other type of acting? She was excellent in Mean Girls.

Don't you remember? She was actually really good and really funny and amazing. And it's, I don't understand why she turns that completely off when she does these kinds of films. But again, maybe that's, I think it's a, it's a genre consideration. This is like a noir or like a spaghetti Western. It has, you know, specific ways that it needs to be. And this is how Lacey was actually playing it the way it was meant to be. I love it. So you're saying she's like the, you know, like the Telly Savalas, the way he would show up in spaghetti Westerns and just be like, that's just Telly Savalas. He's just pretending to be in Italy in a Western. But in

fact, he's only got one style and we're just along for the ride. Yeah, it's cloyingly sweet, you know. A little pained. I have one really important thing to discuss with you guys that hopefully will open up to a wider conversation, which is the final needle drop of the film. Did you catch that? I didn't catch it.

You said it was a Coldplay song what cold play song i'm not um this song is called feels like i'm falling in love it's spelled as if it were one word okay sure cold play i want to talk to you guys a little bit about cold play this song was written by the band and produced by Max Martin. Bait and Switch. Okay. It features something named Zurb. What is Zurb? Wasn't he the villain of the Toy Story? Isn't he the guy with the guns? I think that's Zurg.

Oh, okay. Well, then I don't know. So it's not the villain from the Toy Story films. Coldplay will collaborate with anyone at this point, I think. They're just stuff for anything. So this song was released in October of 2024. And I'll be honest,

I haven't spent a lot of time with Coldplay in the last 10 years. I have kind of moved on. There was a time in my life when I would really really really go to bat for parachutes you know i really really liked parachutes their parachutes is a phenomenal album and i like a rush of blood to the head as well the second album the scientist uh come up to meet me yeah those are those are those are good albums And I thought this is a good band.

Are they iterative? Duplicative even of some other bands I like? Maybe. But I really like them. I like Chris Martin. Whatever they've been up to

since like 2012, I'm mystified by. You know, it's like they're dressed in like carnival outfits and they're making EDM and there's like all kinds of stuff going on

that I don't get. But for whatever reason, and I was just just trolling YouTube the other day, and I came across a video starring Rolf Macchio singing a Coldplay song. Are you guys familiar with this? No. Like you haven't seen this video,

you don't know about this. It's an official music video By the band Coldplay Starring Ralph Macchio Yeah the name of the song Is The Karate Kid And in the video Are you sure that you just didn't order a cameo

Where Ralph Macchio Sings A fake Coldplay song Just for you And you accidentally uploaded it to YouTube? I don't know if this is a real thing, I have to say. It's a real thing. I mean, I don't know.

I'm trying to find like where this song lives. Like it's not on this new Coldplay record. It's a real testament to the saturation of online media that this came and went and nobody heard about it. Yeah. Coldplay, arguably one of the biggest bands, guitar rock bands in the world.

I guess it's on the full moon edition of the Moon music album. Sure, of course. Who couldn't forget the full moon edition of the Moon music album? I'm trying to figure out what the heck is going on here. But I guess Coldplay is back?

I don't know. I wouldn't go that far. No, I... The song started playing and it's like, is this Coldplay? Like, they didn't get Coldplay for the end of this movie. You recognize it, Rob? I thought it might be Coldplay. I didn't recognize the song, but I was like, this is either

they got themselves a fake Coldplay or they didn't recognize the song, but I was like, this is either they got themselves a fake Coldplay or they threw a million. They spent more money on this song than they did on the whole rest of the movie to get a Coldplay song. I'm sorry, you don't think Pretty Woman was extremely expensive to license? That's a very famous song.

That's probably a little more than, no offense to Chris Martin, than the brand new Coldplay song that didn't even have any vocals. I think Coldplay are a little mystified by Coldplay in the last 10 years. So I don't think you're alone there at all, Sean. Well, I like Chris Martin just kind of following his light. You know, he's just like, I'm exploring new spaces like Netflix original films. Here's some other songs that are,

that appear on in the film, hot frosty Tokada and fugue and D minor by Johan Sebastian Bach. Is that in the public domain? That's the EDM. Is it, doesn't it say, doesn't it say when he turns into a real person, like the,

the caption is like EDM version of Tchaikovsky. Like, yes, you're referring to Tchaikovsky's The Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy. Excuse me, excuse me. That's a different thing. Yes, yes, sorry.

And then a bunch of songs that, you know, that you probably only hear while watching Love Island. You know, there's like a whole genre of music. Yossi, talk to me about that genre. Yeah, the Love is Blind music. What is that? It's just for like, oh, actually this is a greati, talk to me about that genre. Love is Blind, yeah. Yeah, the Love is Blind music. What is that? It's just for like, oh, actually this is a great moment

for me to talk about, do you guys even mention the Chrishell-Stouse cameo? No. In the very, from Selling Sunset, a fellow Netflix franchise. It reminds me,

because that show also has this music where there's just an entire genre of music that is like a factory, a cottage industry of weird EDM music that goes in the background of these reality television programs the creshell sequence is very strange because she's just like in full creshell full beat makeup it's 9 a.m yeah she's there with a small child it's like who has time to look like this with a tiny child and new hope springs or wherever the fuck they live. She has one single line.

She never comes back. Oh, is she the one with the kid in the diner at the beginning? Okay. She's like, I, the chocolate chip pancakes sequence. Right.

Okay. All right. And then never to be seen again. So hot frosty recommend Yossi. 10 out of 11 out of 10. Could not recommend more. We'll turn your whole world around and then watch all the princess switches. And then like, if you really want to experiment, watch Operation Christmas Drop. What's that? It's Kat Graham and it's like a military themed Christmas

movie where she goes with like a man in the military. I am a little hazy on the details. It's been like two years since I seen it, but they're bringing food and gifts to a small Island in Micronesia. And she's a bit of a Scrooge. And by the end, the renewed spirit of Christmas is within her seeing this beautiful display of charity and love. It's a little colonizer-y, but like that can take us right into Moana, babe. Honestly. I was going to say, what a segue. That was very artful.

And I'm loathe to not ride on that flotilla with you straight to Moana too. But honestly, Yossi, you like to joke that you're like, do I fit in here at the Ringer? Is this right that my shows are here? And then whatever you've been doing for the last 20 minutes, some of the most Ringer shit I've ever heard in my life. I'm nothing if not a devoted soldier in the Ringer army. Many people are saying that.

You too will travel to Micronesia to spread the good word. Let us talk now about Moana 2. I had no idea what you would have to contribute. I didn't know any of your thoughts about Disney movies in general, Yossi. I do know a bit about Rob's. You know, Rob's, he's got a family. He's got children. Like when something like this comes up, is Moana two still in the household?

Is it like an event? Is it something that the kids are aware of and excited about? They're aware of it. Excited about, I don't know. They, there's like a performative like, Oh, not this. But then when they watch it, they're like thrilled by it. Right. Because your sons are, are, is it, is it the performativeness because your sons are sort of like a little bit older and they're like sort of growing out of it yeah that's that's right so my

my sons are 13 and 11 and then we have a four-year-old daughter right right and so we're all in the theater and whenever a song started in moana 2 the boys just groans you know like the 11 year old is just like this song is terrible terrible within five seconds. He was right, by the way, but still, there is an immediate knee-jerk performative. Oh no, they're singing. One thing I do want to mention, when I walked into the theater, there was a dude walking out of the theater and he

said out loud, he's like, I can't believe Wicked was a musical. Nobody told me it was a musical. I had to put on my headphones and draw. It was the greatest thing in the world to me. He was so mad that Wicked was a musical. I had to put on my headphones and draw. I was so, it was the greatest thing in the world to me. He was so mad that Wicked was a musical. That man was me. So Moana, the original Moana, right?

Like that's 2016, right? And so my kids, the boys are like eight and six or something. And so they're right in the wheelhouse for that. And that's one of the movies we watched where then the soundtrack was constant for the next six months. Right. I would put in Kanto in this category, both Frozens, you know, but like a Boana was one of the better soundtracks, right? Like shiny, like the Jermaine Clement's, you know, crab song, the fake Bowie's a banger, an absolute banger. And so I think even if they wouldn't have admitted it, I think the boys were excited by the prospect of another movie with bangers like that, even if they have a knee-jerk dislike of musicals now.

And meanwhile, the four-year-old is just crawling on the back of the seat in front of us. She's having a completely different experience. So she's not really locked in on the Moana mythology in any way. Not the mythology. She was like, this is really exciting, you know, when the movie started. And that was very sweet. And then she started climbing. It is adorable.

But then she started climbing. I think she was enjoying the movie in her own way. Right. And what I'm curious about is if she's going to request to see it again or to hear the music again. And I'm thinking that she will ask to see the movie. She will be mad that it's not on Disney Plus right now. I don't think she is going to demand the soundtrack like in the minivan, or at least I hope not. Yeah, I mean, there's probably some reasons for that. You know, the first Moana film is directed by John Musker and Ron Clements, who are two of the more beloved and successful Disney filmmakers of the last 40 years. I mean, they worked on The Great Mouse Detective in 1986. They directed The Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Hercules. Like, they've been doing it for a long time. And Moana, as I mentioned actually on an episode earlier this week

when we talked about Wicked, I'm like, this is really like as good as it gets, in my opinion, for Disney animation studios films. Yeah. Like the combination of story character, songs, and hummability, repeatability. When you have young kids, these movies are on, or as Rob said, like the soundtracks are on all the time. They can make you absolutely crazy if they're not any good. In my

opinion, and I know some people on this panel may disagree, this has songs that are co-written by Lin-Manuel Miranda, the first film. I think the first film might be... I think it might be his best work. Now, obviously, Hamilton is his biggest work and noisiest work, and

there are in the Heights fans and Tick Tick Boom fans. And, you know, he's done a lot of things over the years. But I fucking love those songs from Moana. And he is not the author of the songs in this new film. And Musker and Clements are not back either. This is a new group of people who are making this movie. And significantly, the movie started out as a TV series. And I guess it was going to be a limited series that was going to tell like a contained story over, I guess, like six or eight episodes

or something like that. I'm not sure of the details. But Disney shifted its strategy after realizing that streaming was a pox on our society that is ruining storytelling. And I'm grateful for that. And honestly, that there's just more money in the hills

of theatrical exhibition. So they transformed this TV show, which is now directed by David Derrick Jr., Jason Hand, and Dana LeDoux Miller into a film,

a theatrical film. And so, you know, the cast is back. Al Lea Crovalho is back. Dwayne cast is back. Alia Cravalho is back. Dwayne Johnson is back. Nicole Scherzinger is back. Tamara Morris. Like, all of those folks are back.

The movie itself, like so many Disney sequels, feels like the same movie that we saw, but with just a little bit more stuff attached to it. Is that a reasonable description of what we saw, but with just a little bit more stuff attached to it. Is that a reasonable description of what we saw? It does map pretty cleanly onto the first Moana. Moana needs to go on an adventure across the sea to find a thing that is somewhat indescribable, MacGuffiny. And she needs some help along the way from some new folks who will allow

her to become the savior. And then her island and the people of the world will all live in harmony. That's more or less the framework of the story. You nailed it. Right. And then like halfway through the movie, it's like, is this, is this a villain? It's like, no, she's just singing a disco song, you know? And it's like, oh, okay. I,'s, that, the disco song is in the shiny spot, right? Like halfway through, we meet like a charismatic, maybe villain, maybe not, you know? And then we move on to the big, you know, the big storm that we conquer at the end.

It's like a Star Wars sort of re-imagining of the first Moana, basically. Yeah, she's like an envoy to a storm. Yes. Not so much a real character. So Yossi, do the whole thing. Moana, the first film. Lin-Manuel Miranda.

Moana 2. Start with Lin-Manuel Miranda. Yeah, like where do you stand on the whole deal? Okay, I just need to preface this by saying when you're always like, who is this movie for? This movie is that to me. Don't do that to me. Okay, I just need to preface this by saying when you're always like, who is this movie for? This movie is not for me. I don't have children and I don't like musicals. There's like three musicals on earth that I enjoy and the rest of them, it's like none of my business.

Do you know what I mean? What are the three? Grease has a really special place in my heart. Little Shop of Horrors. Great film. And the South Park one. Also a great film film one of the best you will enjoy an animated musical feature yeah and like i was wondering if like how because i i

won't name names but a friend of mine did send me a voice memo i guess he had been listening to a big picture episode where you did say moana was the best musical of all time and he was like incensed that didn't that did not. The framework was 21st century. Okay. So tell your friend, listen closely. Listen, pay attention. How much of this is like Stockholm syndrome because you have children who force you

to like watch and listen to it a million times? Because for example, I love The Little Mermaid because I was a child when The Little Mermaid came out and it's like deeply meaningful to me. But I would argue those songs still bang. I watched Moana when it came out, not in the theater, and I remember liking it. And then I watched it again to like pregame for Moana 2. And I was crying and I found it very emotionally manipulative because I was like, this is not, there's no reason for me to be crying.

But I cried a bunch. I think it's good. It was good. It's cute. It's whatever. Um, Moana, she was awful. It was terrible. I didn't understand what was happening and I'm an adult person. I mean, I was drinking, so maybe that's something to do with it. What were you drinking by the way? I was just having red wines cause I knew I had to. In the theater. That's right. With the children. With the children. They're not my children. Did you bring a bottle?

What's the situation here? No, I went to the Look Cinema in Glendale, a little known beautiful cinema where you can recline the seats and they have a full bar menu and food menu. That's how I like to see films. So you had chicken fingers and red wine. You said chicken fingers and red wine. That's right. Anything else?

That'll be $45. That's right. Anything else? That'll be $45. That was $45. I ate some of the child's Sour Patch Kids. Against their will or did they offer them to you? No, we were friends. He shared. I just couldn't follow the plot. There was too many characters.

I was like, why are there so many? I can see it in a TV show that working. Not to be like hot frosting made sense but this doesn't make sense why this wasn't for the first moana too but it bothered me more in this one why do some people have accents and some don't why are you all in the same tribe and some of you are australian and some of you are from new zealand and some of you are american what are you even fucking talking about? What's going on here? And then also, I'm sorry, not to like put on my conspiracy theory tinfoil hat, but did you not feel that the subliminal messaging

of both these films is like pro-globalism? Well, I don't think there is like the sort of means of production in capitalistic society that we see represented meaningfully in Moana. So I'm not sure the idea of capitalism maps onto the world of Moana. I didn't say capitalism. I said globalism.

Well, but globalism is a function of capitalism. They only make sense in unison. This is a metaphor. They don't have to show commerce to deploy their insidious messaging. It's an interesting question. So you think this is sort of a post-Clintonian economic text? Yes. We need to deregulate Mata Nui so that we can...

We can't survive without communing with other cultures outside. Our story will end here. Our story will end here. If we do not import goods from China. Yes. Also, I'm sorry. From China. They brought all those people and they also already spoke English.

Are you pro tariffs? What's the situation? No, no, no. I'm not pro. I'm simply asking questions. I'm simply here to ask questions. Okay. I'm just curious.

I am. I don't think I spent enough time. And honestly, that is the kind of thing I would think hard about. I don't think that's the case for Moana because these societies are relatively primitive. And so in this film, which explores the idea of people beyond Moana's island and the village where she lives, which I thought was kind of a nice concept. I didn't find it offensive or terribly capitalistic. I wasn't offended. I was simply trying to use your galaxy brain.

I do think that in a lot of Disney product, there is this expectation of a kind of global unity agreeing upon Disney product. As they should to make Disney money. Yeah. I mean, there's definitely an undercurrent of that in a lot of this stuff. I mean, I generally agree the movie's just not very good.

It's disappointing. It wasn't meant to be a movie. And the reason why this episode is titled What Even Is a Movie is because a lot of movies that come along nowadays are just sort of like, this didn't start that way. You know, like Hot Frosty to me feels like it started out as a dare or as a tweet or as like, I wonder if I could conjure this into a meme and I'm going to make it a feature film for the largest global streaming platform in the history of mankind. And likewise, Moana 2 is like, you know, we don't really need a Moana 2. And back when we were kids, I feel like this is

relevant to this conversation. They did make a lot of sequels like this to animated films. Straight to DVD. And they went straight to DVD. And maybe you can catch them on the Disney channel, but they were not a part of the theatrical presentation of this beautifully codified Disney brand. And I was looking at the list, the history of Disney animated features last night, because I'm just a cool, normal guy. And there's a turning point.

And that turning point fits narrowly into our coming of age, collectively, like amongst the three of us in our ages, which is that you have this second golden age of Disney animated films, which essentially kicks off with The Little Mermaid, and you have Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Lion King. And then that leads very clearly into Toy Story and Pixar in 1995. And there were still Disney 2D animation happening at that time. But in 1994, 1995, you get a significant growth in the number of animated movies that this studio starts making. Some of them are straight to DVD. Some of them are like there would be a new Winnie the Pooh movie that is theatrically released, but it is not the noisy Disney original that is coming out like Hercules of that year, Tarzan or something like that. And Disney Animation, which in the

1980s, I think only produced five feature films, a very small number in the 90s goes to like 45, like a huge number of movies that they just start cranking out. And so you have to kind of like discern as a kid, like, well, this is like a real one and a good one. And this is like a junkie one that we'll watch, but we know doesn't really matter that much. And you have to convince your parents to buy it on VHS if you really want to see it.

And now we're in the place where the junkie thing is now the main course. And Moana 2 is be one of the biggest movies of the year, which is fascinating and quite sad, honestly. Well, can I say, Sean, to say something nice about Moana 2? I don't know if it's nice about Moana 2, but when you always ask, like, who is this for, right? If it's for children, I'm going to tell you what, Leo, the seven and a half year old,

he loved it. He loved every second of it. He cried. He later said, I'm going to believe him, believe children. But when Moana was, you know, perhaps touch and go there at the end, not to spoil. He said he cried because she came back to life and they were happy tears, but I think he was crying because he was very worried and he loved it. He loved every minute of it. I'm sure for him, it was as satisfying as Moana one and as satisfying as any other animated film would be. It's, it's for us that we didn't, you know,

enjoy it and feeling like, is it for us? you know? Yeah, I mean, who is this for is like a complicated question that sometimes I'm interested in having a conversation, sometimes I'm not. Of course, I understand that the Moana sequel is for children,

so much so that I already have three tickets to go see it again on Friday with my daughter. And the only reason I didn't take her yesterday is because she was in school. And so,

I'm going to see it again and she's going to see it and I'll be very surprised if she doesn't like it. I have a heart. I get it. Yeah. And Hey, Hey, I'm sorry. Hey, Hey is the best part of the movie. And Hey, Hey was the best part of Moana one. And I stand Hey, Hey, and I would watch a Hey, Hey spinoff. That's interesting. We have a stuffed Hey, Hey in this house. I bought my daughter. Yeah. Also the biggest laugh line in the theater is when Moana was touch and go and my four-year-old blurted out, Moana died and everyone in the theater laughed.

So that was the best movie, part of the whole movie. She's a very... Certainly for me. Yeah. Self-aware. That's good movie watching. You were making it seem like she was not paying attention, but she seemed locked in. Yeah.

Can I ask you guys a dad question? Yeah, please. Okay. So you're both the father of daughters. You're both girl dads. Yeah. You are our daughter. That's right.

I am your daughter. I'm your eldest daughter. There is this thing that's been made a lot out of in the past. Sean, you could, as a scholar of Disney films could probably tell me better how long it's been, but like where like Moana one was very much celebrated for this, right? We're like, it's a story of a girl who had, there's no romance. She's not, there's no Prince charming. There's no love story. And this has kind of become a thing, right? It happens now. Most of these movies don't have what, you know, hot frosty has or, or a little mermaid. There's no ice penis in the film Moana, that's right. Right. But also all of the, you know, Snow White, Cinderella, et cetera, et cetera,

et cetera. Do you think that's ultimately good? Um, I have a point of view on it. What do you think, Rob? Well, they make a big deal. There's like an in-joke in Moana 2 about how she's not a princess, but everyone thinks that she is. Like Maui keeps calling her princess

and she keeps being like, I'm not a princess. And Maui says basically to us, like, but a lot of people think you are. Like they're making a very big deal out of them not being princesses anymore. And then being self they're strong female characters. Right. And I hadn't thought so much about the no love interest thing, but that's true as well. You know, like Encanto, I think is my personal favorite, you know, of this era, both for the

movie itself and for the songs, for the soundtrack, you know, but Mirabelle in Encanto, you know, like has no love interest. And like the whole point of her is that she's not special at all, which makes her the most special at all. Right. Like I, I do think that they are reacting to the classic Disney construction of every female character is a princess who needs to be saved by Prince Charming, you know, in some fashion, you know, like even, even is it charmed? What's the Rapunzel? Tangled. The Rapunzel. Yeah. The Rapunzel and mine too. And the Rapunzel sort of myth is sort of strong. You know, she's a much more self-sufficient character

in Tangled than she is historically. So I do think that Disney is thinking very, very hard about these things. The question of whether it's a good thing or not, what's the, I hadn't thought about it, but like, what's the argument for it not being a good thing? Like they're just trying to frame it as like, you don't have to be a princess, you know, anymore. I'm just two things. I'm always suspicious of the girl bossification of anything. Sure. Sure. And then also like, I, I understand it at the beginning because I think it's all there was, was these love stories and like the idea that all your only value in life is to find love. But given the, like, I'm sorry, nobody, people are turning this off. They're like this woman,

which we came here to talk about. You know, young people are not dating. People are not getting married. Like it's like a, it's actually a sociocultural problem that dating and romance is difficult and struggling in society. And I'm not sure like if every indoctrination of children removes the idea of love and romance, it's that great. So I don't know. I don't, I'm simply posing questions. I'm just here to ask questions about globalization, about, you know, gender, about... Powerful stuff. I genuinely appreciate you raising this, and I have spent a lot of time discussing this with my wife for a variety of reasons.

One, I think, you know, sure, maybe 0.06% of the incelification of sad, frustrated men is due to Disney's decision to empower young women to not rely upon the male archetypes that often populated the first 75 years of their films. In my house, we have spent a ton of time in the last 18 months watching huge chunks of the history of Disney animated feature films. My daughter, as I've said many times on the show, is obsessed with Disney princesses. You know, obviously they have, you know, a tractor beam

that draws in any girl who is even lightly interested in this world. But in the case of my daughter, she fully loves these films. She loves everything from the earliest, earliest Snow White renditions

of these stories all the way through the modern, independent-minded Moana and Encanto. But there is something primal with my daughter where she is like, I want to get married to a prince. She sees that at the conclusive moments of these films as deeply meaningful. Sleeping Beauty, for example, which is one of the most beautifully made movies of all time, but has this so simple and to some extent dumb portrayal

of the role of the hero versus the damsel in distress and our title character having no agency and literally sleeping through the final 30 minutes of the movie. Her year of rest and relaxation. Truly. She was ahead of the curve and she was not even coping with modern technology.

Rest is feminine. It's true. But so my point is, by saying all that, is that what it becomes in our house is a balance. It means that you can watch Sleeping Beauty

and you can watch Moana and you can have both. You can see an independent female warrior who saves her tribe without the necessity of longing for a man or a woman or whomever else. And you can also still love Sleeping Beauty. I think having them both and what it feels like what Disney is doing is in some ways correcting and arguably overcorrecting on a long history of these oversimplified gender expectations.

Right. If in 20 years we haven't had a single romance in any Disney animated film, then I think it's more than reasonable to be like, hmm, did Disney depressurize romance for young kids across the country

and across the world? And did that have a deleterious effect on mating and relationships in our culture? It's definitely possible. I don't know. I'm just here to ask questions.

Listen, I love your approach. Ladies as pimps too. That's what you're teaching your daughter and I think that's wonderful. She has one of those little letter puzzle piece things that says ladies as pimps too right over her bed. Ladies as pimps too. I just find it interesting

because I think fairy tales, and then we don't have to get into the whole thing of these are fairy tales that were adapted, that the darkness was cut off, but also are archetypal, right? That's why your daughter reacts so strongly because human archetypes are in the collective unconscious. They're beyond learned. And the archetype of the princess is so strong. It's the divine feminine, right? And it has a lot of value. And I think that gets swept under the rug when it's like dumbed down to fourth wave girl boss feminism to be like, you can be a boss actually. But I don't think that Moana, Moana to me is like, I'm not sure Moana.

Is Athena, is Artemisia. Like that's like Greek and Roman mythology where it's like, there's a woman who is the most powerful person in all the land.

That's Wonder Woman. And she's a demigod. And she also displays divine feminine qualities in her caring for the collective and her nurturing, which is the divine feminine qualities and her caring for the um collective and her nurturing which is the divine feminine but i did wonder if she was supposed to be if the the goofy dude who worships maui i thought are they gonna get together like what is what is the actual end game this all makes me think about frozen as well like isn't there a lot of discourse about like Elsa, right?

Like, and I think the sort of expansion there is, is Elsa gay? Like, it seems like, isn't there a, there's a Saturday Night Live skit about that. I think about the idea if they're going to use Frozen, you know, to have, you know, to break that wall. To soft launch the first. I do not think in this phase of American history that is going to happen. No. I think Frozen 3 comes out in 2027, which would be still in the midst of this new administration. So I don't see it happening.

You know, yeah. Elsa is going to be in Trump's cabinet, you know, and it's going to dismantle the EPA. You know, I think that's probably the plot of Frozen 3. It kind of checks out when you think about her at her most rageful, you know. She's like, cover this land in ice. Busting dams and whatnot. Yeah. You managed to circle the square because I think what if we dropped Elsa into Hot Frosty 2? I think there's that could be

and she comes in and she wants to break up Jack and Lacey Chabert right? And she's like I know about ice and I know how to get down with you.

You know it's like the old question about whether or not Lois Lane could handle Superman's you know super powered member.

Sean he's a human now babe it's over. The snowman his temperature is normal. She kissed him. Why did he become a human now, babe. It's over. The temperature is normal. She kissed him. Why did he become a human? Is that what it did? That's all.

Yeah. That was a little bit of a sleeping beauty nod. No, I'm sure it was. It was very funny that he died and everyone just turned away from him. Come on, let's go. Let the sheriff handle the dead body.

You guys, Christmas Eve. Nobody brought up the ACAB of it all. Let the sheriff handle the dead body on Christmas Eve. Nobody brought up the ACAB of it all. Like the, the anti-carceral state that was clearly like a theme of this, of this film. Hope Springs is going to defund the fuck out of the police. I'm just saying that wasn't by accident. No,

you guys really didn't disappoint today. Genuinely. You're most cracked. I'm so thankful for you both. And he like, what else do we need to say? Like Moana and Hot Frosty, they're barely movies

and yet they're going to end up being like two of the most watched movies in American society in 2024. Hot Frosty is fab and you will not regret watching it. It's fun. It doesn't pretend

to be something it's not. And I think that's the difference between that and Moana too. That's my two. And I think that's the difference between that and Moana 2. That's my two cents. I think that's right. You know, and I don't think Moana 2 is going to click in this household in terms of the soundtrack being ubiquitous, you know, for the next six months. I think that the songs are trash, man. And I remember walking out of Frozen 2 and thinking the songs were trash and then the kids wanted to hear it constantly and I ended up vibing very hard in the end with the Frozen like it came around for me

not a fan of Frozen 2 personally yeah the movie no but like I the soundtrack I really did I really would put on the same level as Frozen 1 but there is no chance of that happening between Moana and Moana I just like what was going? He was rapping at some point. There was just like so much. Well, that's, yeah. That's Maui's way. I know. That is Maui's.

It's like a lot. And what was he even saying? Like, what was he on about? Like in that song, you know, like. He was trying to pump up Moana. He was like, you got this. That was the girl boss. Yeah.

The girl bossing of Moana. He was like, they don't even know about you, girl. You're the real queen of this land i will say i was really stunned to the children even the four-year-old knew the name of that sort of like simp artist that was on the boat what was i don't remember i still don't even remember it but they were like yeah so and so like and i was like you're four and you caught that like i must maybe it's one of those dog whistle type things where they actually are so good at making it for children

to understand that some of it slips past us, but a four-year-old can follow. It's totally possible. I found the film somewhat disappointing. I didn't mention it's Abigail Barlow and Emily Bear are the writers of the songs for this film. And they were the writers of the songs for the unofficial Bridgerton musical. Are either of you guys for this film and they were the writers of the songs for

the unofficial Bridgerton musical or either of you guys up on that that was a bit of a phenomenon in the late COVID period okay and

they have now fully ported over to reputable productions that's not the thing in London where there was a stripper and it

went viral in the manner of the that's not one of those I'm thinking of something else. Excuse me. Magic Mike's Last Dance? I'm pretty sure that's what you're referring to. There we go.

That's exactly what I'm referring to. Surprisingly, who brought the horniest energy to this pod? It was Rob from Jump. What do you mean, surprisingly? Look at how strapping he is. He's downright Dustin Milliganian. All right. Okay. He's downright Dustin Milliganian. All right. Okay.

That's my dad. That's my dad you're talking about. He looks so bad. My wife was a little alarmed by Dustin Milligan's whole vibe in this movie. Yeah, he was really toothy. I was just going to say,

way too much smiling. Take it down a notch. A lot of teeth. A lot of teeth. are there any movies at the end of this year that you guys are excited for oh yeah baby girl yes now that now that is a yossi movie and also what's what's the movie from the woman who made morvern caller i love her i love all her movies uh lynn lynn ramsey yeah that's not coming out until next year oh it's not next year that's the movie I'm the most

excited for. Sorry. So maybe for this year, Baby Girl is high on my list. Good choice. I want to see Wicked, dude. I, you know, I have not yet seen Wicked. I think the boys are into Wicked. You're both grimacing, so maybe I'm not going to enjoy. Did you know it's a musical? I do now, only because

of that guy. I saw the film. Some good stuff, but I wasn't ultimately a big fan of it. Uh, but it is, it's looks like it may turn out to be the movie phenomenon of the year. Uh, people because, because both adults and kids want to see it.

So it's going to like, well, it's got a two, two plus generation level of connectivity. You've got parents who can bring their kids who experienced it for the first time. I think in 2001 is when it was first stage. staged and you got even people who read the book and obviously the wizard of oz is almost 100 years of history so yeah we'll never get anything we'll

never get anything new again you know what my kids really want to see sonic 3 sonic 3 is the most intense sonic the hedgehog that's correct yes amazing this is the third anticipated. Sonic the Hedgehog? That's correct, yes. This is the third film in the Sonic series. Will you be watching any of those, Yossi? Maybe, honestly. I played Sonic as a kid. I didn't know this existed

if I'm being, keeping it 100 with you guys. Jim Carrey plays Dr. Robotnik. Best Jim Carrey role in a decade or more. Best Jim Carrey role in what, Rob? In a decade or more. What is he, what's the better Jim Carrey role in what, Rob? In a decade or more. What is he,

what's the better Jim Carrey movie in the last decade? I don't, you know, that's an odd way to frame it. Yeah, he's not worked a lot. Okay, well, those are really some good choices. Sonic 3, Baby Girl, and Wicked.

What about you, Sean? You already saw these movies. I've seen most of what I want to see. Let's take a look at what I'm excited about. Thank you for asking. I want to see the Pope movie again also. Yeah. It's on VOD now.

You can rent it. Thank God. It's only really enjoyable if you see it in the theater with a bunch of elderly people. Can't say I disagree with that. Not only, but it's extra enjoyable. Allow me to correct myself. The Wild Robot that sort of that's on vod now we're sort of waiting until that's not 25 dollars but we really want to see the oh the lohan holiday movie sorry that's what's that called that one is called um hold on one second i have it in my little notes here. It is called Our Little Secret,

and the premise is that two resentful exes are forced to spend Christmas under the same roof after discovering that their partners are siblings. Intriguing. There's actually, there's one movie that I'm very interested in that I haven't seen yet. And then there's another movie

that I think is very relevant to this trio. Better Man. You guys know what Better Man is? Better Man is the Robbie Williams biopic. Oh, yes! Remember I sent this to you. He's a monkey. I'm dying to see this. Maybe there's a little drop-in from this

trio to discuss that film at some point. And then A Complete Unknown, which I have seen, which I don't really want to talk about until I talk about on the show but that's the bob dylan film starring timothy chalamet yeah rob not into it well no i'm a little nervous about it uh can you say anything at all are you just completely i saw it very well how annoying will men be post seeing that film i mean how annoying will women be i think is a reasonable question to ask about any timothy shall we movie right that's a good point this is an equal opportunity bringing out the annoying and everybody and then there's it's an edward norton performance so how annoying will sean be is a reasonable question to ask you know

always going to bat for my guy yeah where Norton is in that movie who does he play he plays Pete Seeger sure he does sure yeah also Scoot McNary plays Woody Guthrie were you aware of that hey I was not aware of any of this can I ask a broader question Sean

really I'm sorry you probably want us to go now but um since I have your film expert ear, why do you think there's such a recent push towards so many films about music in the biopic sense? Because that was kind of a dead space for a while. And now it seems like we're so back. Heavy air quotes and, you know,

tempered your expectations. But like, there's the Bruce Springsteen one coming out. Like, I guess Elvis kind of, is that what kicked it off? But like, it's going kind of crazy.

No, it was Bohemian Rhapsody winning an Oscar. Oh, Bohemian Rhapsody. Bohemian Rhapsody making $900 million I think set all this in motion. I mean, next year we have a Michael Jackson

one as well the one thing I can say about the Bob Dylan movie like holding all other kind of criticisms aside is that there are several sequences in which the Bob Dylan songs

are performed on camera by the actors and you're like god damn like this really is one of the best songs of all time

right you're reminded yeah and you know people reasonable people can even disagree about the one of the best songs of all time right you're reminded yeah and you know people reasonable people can even disagree about the quality of Bob Dylan's songwriting

but it's kind of the same feeling when you're watching the Queen movie which straight up stinks I mean it's really just not a good movie at all

it's so bad but there are moments like when he's performing at Live Aid where you're just like this is fucking awesome like this just sounds great these songs are incredible

like it just works. It's so cheap to use the strength of people's goodwill and love of classic music. It is what it is, though. That's exactly what it is, Yossi. Yeah. There's a Beatles one coming, too. In theory, there are four Beatles films

that are each individually focused on each Beatle. Timothee Chalamet will play all four. All four Beatles. The wig budget goes crazy on that one, babe. See, this is what I would do. I'd smoke some weed and I'd be like, what if we had a Beatles movie? But they're all one guy.

Sounds like you should run Sony Pictures. No, but if anyone's listening who loves to fund creative mind, if any feminists in the space of film are listening and want to fund my creative mind, I think there should be a Slits biopic. I think that is what the world needs. I think it would be, I think one of the best things about music biopics is when they're not too famous because it becomes too uncanny valley when you're trying to understand what you're looking at. And it's someone,

you know, very well, but like nobody is that familiar with the slits and their story is so cool and crazy. So Bob Iger, if you're listening, I'm available for meetings. If I haven't already offended you with my takeoff,

I'm here. Lin-Manuel Miranda. Lin-Manuel Miranda will do the music. And Timothy Chalamet will play Ari Up. Let's fucking go. Rob, what's next on 60 Songs?

What are you doing next week? Spoil it here for us. Come on. The post-Thanksgiving episode, rather, is Linkin Park, which I think is very appropriate. Sean's a huge fan. You hate Linkin Park. That's very interesting.

This has come up many times on the show. 9,500 words about your least favorite band. Okay. You don't think, like, Mike Shinoda is a real rap head is the conclusion that Justin and I have come to. A real rap head? Yeah. Like, he knows his stuff. Yeah, so am I. But that doesn't mean I should come to. A real rap head? Yeah, like he knows his stuff. Yeah, so am I.

But that doesn't mean I should make rap. He is a better rapper than most rappers in rap rock bands. He is a better rapper than Fred Durst. Can we start there? I straight up disagree. I straight up disagree with that. I mean, no disrespect to Mike Shinoda, who seems

like a nice man, and I'm not sure about Fred Durst personally. But I would rather listen to Fred Durst rap badly than Mike Shinoda rap quote unquote well. That's an entirely valid viewpoint. And I hope to change your mind with my four and a half hour Linkin Park missive. I love that you're doing it. And I love your show. Yossi, what are you in the midst of on the season of Bandsplain? I am deep, balls deep in

Oasis. Actually, at Dry Bar the past two weeks, they had Hot Frosty on the TV, but I didn't watch because my nose was stuck in one or another Oasis book. You're rocking the Oasis tea. That's right. I'm nothing if not doing multi-platform marketing is oasis dropping this week i don't know you drop when does this come out i don't know what week this is coming out today man are you serious that's how we that's how we roll today you guys i did something really fun as a um bonus episode where i had the drummer of the arctic monkeys matt helders come quiz me on British slang. It's kind of a bonus up for the holiday week.

Ooh. Great idea. Can't wait to listen to it. Yossi and Rob, thank you so much. Really, candidly, just delightful. This was some of the most fun I've had on the pod recently. So thank you for doing this. And you can come back and talk about Better Man

and your favorite Robbie Williams songs, maybe? I'll be back from Moana 3. Yes, maybe? I'll be back from Moana 3. Yes, you'll definitely be invited back from Moana 3. Thanks, guys. Let's go now to my conversation with Garrett Price. Garrett Price is here, back on the show, back in the Music Box series with Yacht Rock, colon, a documentary.

Tell us about your relationship, Garrett, with Yacht Rock before you started making this film. There really wasn't one, Sean. It wasn't, you know, the last film we did together, Woodstock 99, it was a bit of a Trojan horse film. You know, I used this festival to kind of do an exploration and investigation into like late 90s culture. So I didn't really get to celebrate the music, so to say. So when you guys brought up, you know, pitching another project, it's also a dark story. Woodstock, I wanted to do something much lighter. I knew that right off the bat. I wanted to showcase the music.

At the time, I was editing a TV series called Daisy Jones and the Six. So I was completely immersed in 1970s Los Angeles Sunset Strip rock scene during that show. And I was thinking, people romanticize about this time period. That show is loosely based off a Fleetwood Mac band. I think a lot of people go straight to the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, you got Almost Famous, you got tons of Laurel Canyon docs, but there was a whole other scene happening in these recording studios in Los Angeles at the time. And that's what I was interested in. And I happened to meet the daughters of Christopher Cross and Michael McDonald. And they had joked around and said, you should talk to our dads about the word yacht rock. And that's kind of where it started from. I thought that's kind of

a great idea, this idea of this retroactively created genre that has come to define these artists making music in the 70s. And what's their point of view? I want them to define their music. And that's kind of where it started from. When you were working on Daisy Jones and the Six, were you a big fan of 70s rock, LA rock? Is that something you had a familiarity with? Absolutely. You know, I inherited my parents' record collection, but it was much more of the Doors, you know, Led Zeppelin, more of, you know, the Laurel Canyon scene also, Crosby, Stills

and Nash. So that world. This music, not so much. I was kind of allergic, I guess, to Michael McDonald and late Doobie Brothers and Christopher Cross. But when I started going into this, I kind of went into it ironically. I think a lot of people do. This is a name that was birthed out of the internet, basically a meme.

But you start to understand what this music was and the history behind it and where it came from and how pop music was evolving in the 70s. And I became obsessed with it. And I started to appreciate the artistry, the musicianship. And I'm hoping that's reflected in the film itself. That's the movie I wanted to make. It very much is. So you meet Michael and Christopher's daughters, and they're instrumental in getting this project going, especially Madison, Christopher's daughter. But where do you actually start? What is the first thing you start? Because you have this incredible skill as an editor and you're also a filmmaker. So do you start archivally? Do you start lining up interviews? Tell me about how you make a movie like this.

I know there's a structure here. There's a rise, a fall, and a resurrection from this music, you know, just from knowing, you know, the story of, you know, this boom of soft rock in the late 70s and its popularity at the time and kind of its downfall in the 80s and how it was kind of brought back into the fold through hip hop music as samples and the Rock Yacht Rock series. So I knew that. But, you know, going into these, I didn't quite know, is that engaging enough as a story? I've never talked to these artists before. Are they fun on camera? I don't know. So I got a master interview with Chris and Michael and kind of see their dichotomy together and talking and how they riffed off each other. I was like, oh, okay, there's something here.

Because it's essentially an archival talking head documentary. It's all about the interview, right? That's where you get the emotion. That's where you get the storytelling. That's where you get the emotion that's where you get the storytelling that's where you get the narrative so to speak and once i talked to them and they were so eager to talk about this time period because i think they don't get asked a lot you know you get your stevie nicks and your you know don henley's asked all the time about making music in the 70s these guys i think kind of forgotten about a bit yeah i want to say so they were eager to tell their stories about making music in this time and then you know off of that once they were involved

then kenny loggins was like i'll do it i'll do it and then the toto guys were like i'll do it so everyone started coming in and then on top of that i knew how important it was to get contemporary modern musicians to talk about this and you know we reached out to questlove who absolutely loves this music thundercat who adores this music. And getting them to talk about the importance and legacy of this music and its inspiration for their own music, I thought helped legitimize this time period, too. It was really important for me. One thing I love about the film is, especially with a background as a music critic, it's a very savvy film about the essential nature of making music, like how the music was made, not necessarily technically,

but creatively, finding ways to enunciate how these people collaborated together and how they made what they made. I have to assume you didn't know that you were going to spend as much time unpacking that at the beginning of the story, right? No. In fact, I didn't want to get too inside baseball. I'm always scared that it might get a little boring. These guys love to talk about their influence on jazz and R&B and how they started changing the chords they were playing on the guitar from simple three strings to these complex jazzy chord changes. But it really helped expositionally explain how to tell this story. I think once you really could kind of see how pop music was changing in the early 70s,

there was much more of that kind of folkier Laurel Canyon thing or rock thing to this more jazzier R&B inspired pop music. It's really important. That's the story of Yacht Rock, essentially. And to get across the importance of black music for all these artists, they wore this influence on their sleeves and they really found it important to talk about this in their interviews. And so that was another key decision is to show how important that was as an influence to their music.

And I think when it comes back around as hip hop samples, it kind of goes full circle. Because a lot of these hip hop artists saying, these were records that were in our parents' record collections or that we heard on Black radio stations in the late 70s, early 80s. Yeah, I had this interesting experience in my career. I grew up with a lot of this music. My mom liked Michael McDonald. My dad liked Steely Dan. I could see where some of the sort of clear pop explosion was coming from.

But when I was working as an editor at Vibe magazine, a lot of the other editors and writers that I worked with were obsessed with Michael McDonald, were obsessed with Steely Dan, were obsessed with Donald Fagan for all the reasons that someone like, say, Prince Paul elucidates in the movie. And so it's fascinating that over the course of the last 40 or 50 years, these bands have largely eluded the sort of cultural appropriation charges, the new way that we understand music in the last 20 years as this amalgam of all of these things. And in some cases, you've got artists ripping other artists off. But they always felt deeply admiring, always giving credit, and never trampling on anything. And actually being very much included. Quest goes so far as to say, invited to the barbecue. That's a fascinating thing.

I think that maybe that generation alone gets to experience. Is that fair to say? Absolutely. And it was really important to highlight that in the movie. I think that gets left out a lot, you know? And I think, you know, again, it was so interesting talking to these artists because a big part also was asking what they thought of the word yacht rock. And, you know, were they allergic to this word or did they kind of think it was funny

or, you know, were they welcoming to it? That's come to define their music, know all these years later i think one of the biggest hesitations was you know christopher said it sounds like rich yuppie white people music and that is against everything we were about you know making this music i think that was one of the big reasons why they pushed against this kind of you know name yeah so many years until they really understood that it was made out of reverence. They named it Yacht Rock because of how expensive and smooth and grand the music sounded to their ears,

the creators of the word. That's one fascinating thing about the music itself is so achingly sincere, which the film does a really good job of portraying, but then you've got this bifurcated story where you need to talk about the web series, you need to talk about the origins of the name. They actually went through some iterations over time, but talk about maybe how you figured out how to land the structure

that you have. Yeah. I defined this balance, right? Between the creators of this word, which is based off a 2005 low budget web series, and then the artists themselves. And, you know, I always went in saying, I want to have fun in this film, but I don't want to make fun, you know? And I think, you know, that was always the hardest part of finding that kind of, you know, that line in between, but, you know, you got to give credit to these guys that made, in their minds, kind of created a monster with this series. They had no idea. They were just having fun with this music they love so much and so they create this thing it explodes it comes to define you know all these artists work you know 25 30 years after the

fact and honestly those guys they know so much about those artists and the genre they're kind of my spirit guides in the film you know jd risnar and steve huey and it was important and quest love so to speak also because he was obsessed with both also, the series and the actual music being made at that time. It's so rare that you get in a documentary three incredibly articulate, funny people to hold your hand through a heady idea. Like you did, in a way, like luck into this amazing thing, because as you know better than anybody, like every doc needs these voices that kind of power you along. And all three of those guys are so special at it. When you were doing the interviews with them, were you like, oh, thank God. Like, I'm just getting like exactly what I need time and again.

After doing a number of these, you know, you need those voices, you know, the glue guys, you know, the transitional bites. And so I always do those later and to help steer the narrative but again but i didn't have to do much because they know so much they knew what i was doing so when i brought a question up they could go in that direction they knew where i needed to get from point a to point b which you know you know as i get i always call myself an editor first director second those are the things that you know you're in the edit bay. It's like, that is what I need to get from here to there. And then you feel so lucky when you get them. There's a great moment where JD brings up the Yatsky scale to talk about a certain song.

And it's real time watching the documentary spackle get pushed in. You know, it's like he's building the transition for you so elegantly. It's really great. We're so well. Who was the most fun person to talk to? Man, you know, they all hold a special place in my heart. I think that duo interview of Chris and Michael, just it was the first. And it was the one that said, okay, I can actually tell a story here.

That I loved absolutely. And I think the modern music, Thundercat, I had no idea what I was getting with him. And his passion and his respect for these artists is gleaming in that interview. I think it comes across so genuine, so authentic. And I think, and same with Mac DeMarco, they just, they love this music and they were so excited to sit with me and talk about it. The thing that I probably learned about the most personally was Toto and the way that Toto participated in this world in a way that I did

not fully understand. And I guess I knew some of those names and I knew the Percaro brothers, but just the formulations and the way that they intersected and the way that they sort of like were the bedrock of a lot of this music is fascinating to me. How did you discover that? Is that something that Christopher and Michael put you onto? Who guided you to the direction of those guys? Yeah, my Toto knowledge was like yours at the time too. Just Africa, right? Absolutely. And I knew Rosanna.

I got Hold the Line and Daisy Jones as a sync because I was starting to do the research on this. And I was like, I got to get some of this music that I'm kind of working on my next project into this. That's great. I was able to talk Scott Newshatter into syncing it. And it works good in the film. Because it does,

it's part of the Los Angeles fabric at the time, this music. But I talked to Steve Lukather first because he's friends with Christopher and Michael. He came in pretty, he was like the third person I interviewed. He's such a character. Such a great interview.

And then when he started talking about all the sessions these guys were on, I had no clue how many different albums these guys played on. And then... There's a suggestion that Lukather played on 5,000 records. Is that possible? Lukather, 5,000. Jeff Picarro,

5,000. Page said he played over 3,000. I mean, that's incredible, right? Steve Picarro played over thousands of records. So crossing over in different genres, and these guys could play anything, you know? And I think it's, you know, we expose, which main huge massive album they played on in the 80s,

which kind of, you know, they all played on Thriller, which is interesting because some could say Thriller was the downfall of this style of music, but it was also stockpiled with these artists themselves. I was just explaining that bitter irony to my wife the other day after we just watched the film again.

And I was like, it's just so fascinating the way that they, in many ways, like helped engineer their own demise, but then they ultimately rose again

in such a fascinating way. What was the hardest thing to crack in terms of telling the story? Where to start? Yeah. I think in making these, it's always,

where do you start these things? You know, you see the finish line fairly quickly. And I always knew i wanted to end it the way i did when i had during the interview i clocked these bites that i'm like that's a great ending bite things like that but you know just how do we set up the web series how do we set up you know the relationship with the web series i think a lot of people thought it was called yacht rock back in the 70s still a lot of people have never heard of the word Yacht Rock, but they know this music. So I think the starting line is always the hardest thing.

This music, we keep describing it as the soundtrack of our lives. And because it's literally a soundtrack of our lives, we hear it everywhere we go, whether it's the supermarket, CVS, doctor's offices, elevators, parents' cars. So we've taken it for granted because it's always been there. So I just wanted to hang out with these actual musicians making it and getting them to tell their stories. It's a hangout movie in the end, right?

Yeah, yeah. You're kind of just chilling with these guys. It is. And it feels like that best feeling, that great feeling when you're watching a doc and you're cutting back to an interview with someone you've previously seen before and you just feel like they're just as revved up as they were from the last bite. You know, like Jay Reardon, for example. You're just like, oh my God, he's back.

And he's happy to tell you once more about the solo that he played on this record. Absolutely. Again, these guys are just so happy to talk about this time period. Because I think a lot of people haven't talked to him about it. Yeah, yeah. And they deserve their, you know, on the mantle of music history. Yeah. And that's, you know, I'm hoping we're giving them a showcase of doing that.

Let's talk about Steely Dan. Yes. Steely Dan are very important to this film. They're very important to this genre. Maybe just for the listeners, you can kind of like outline the meaningful role that they play in the story. And then let's talk about engaging the Steely Dan world in the film. So as one of the Yacht Rock web series creators calls Steely Dan, they are the primordial

ooze from which Yacht Rock sprang. You know, so many of these musicians of the film started their careers with Steely Dan as session players. So we try to make a point of they took everything they learned from Donald Fagan and Walter Becker of Steely Dan into their own work. And that's kind of, you visually see how the sound grows across Los Angeles. Steely Dan, heavily influenced by kind of, you visually see how the sound grows across Los Angeles.

Steely Dan, heavily influenced by jazz music, you know, and combining pop music. So I knew these music docs are only as good as having the actual music in the film itself, you know, especially a film where we're talking about what the sound is. I didn't want to be like a clip film where you hear three or four seconds and try to fair use the track. I needed to live in this music and tell these stories. So I think, Sean, we had like six Steely Dan songs. Yep. I don't think Donald Fagan's ever licensed more than one for a project, and he's very picky about that.

Yep. So we finished this film, basically, and we were sitting idle waiting for Donald to watch the movie and then sign off on it. And months go by, and we started having those discussions. How do we recut this? This was very stressful. This happened on a film, on another documentary in the previous season of this series. And it was the same feeling that I had, at least in my seat, where I was like, holy shit,

this movie is either not happening or getting significantly recut, especially because of the way that you structured it really so beautifully as this originating point. If you took it out, the house of cards kind of comes down, right? Absolutely.

We had those conversations all the time. You know, I didn't know what to do. And I always felt also, I was like, this is a love letter to this music.

I just hope he watches it, you know, and understands that. Months go by. We haven't heard anything. And then we finally get a phone call from Donald's manager, Irving Azoff,

the notorious Irving Azoff, and says, love the movie. We absolutely love it. Donald will never sign off on this music. He hates the word hot rock. I'm like, wait, what?

What do we do here? And then a couple of days go by and he calls back. He goes, okay, Garrett, here's what's going to happen. Donald's going to call you one day. Record the conversation. Whatever he says,

find a way to put that in the movie and we'll consider licensing the music to you. Weeks go by, Sean. I don't hear anything. I'm answering every single, you know, unknown caller, telemarketer, political call possible.

Tough time of the year for it to be taking that on too. Three o'clock in the afternoon on Tuesday, getting ready to go get the kids. I get a phone call, it's Donald Fagan. And I'm like, shaking, right? I'm like, Donald, can I get the recording equipment on? I have this app where you can switch over or record. I hang up on them. There's no callback number. I'm like, oh my God, I ruined it. 10 minutes go by, he calls back, thankfully. He goes, you have one more shot of this kid. Okay, I'm just going to put you on speakerphone, record you on my computer. And I have this conversation. If he wants to be in the film and participate, I've talked to all these peers and he gives me an answer and I find a way to use it in the film. Days go by and they

signed off on all the music. So I don't want to ruin it. You've probably read about it maybe if you're interested in this film, but I think with him, I don't know if he loves the word, but he gets it. And I think it's a wink to the music. For those of us who are Steely Dan fans, it honestly feels like the perfect encapsulation of the Fagin fandom experience where there is like an acid burn on every flower, you know, like every beautiful thing that he's made needs to be somehow a little bit harsh or vice versa. And this is like an incredible example of that. But my wife heard it all happening in real time next room and she's like, oh my God, he's so mean to you. I go, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me.

You have no idea. I'm just going to have a conversation with Donald Fagan. It's pretty great. He burnished his myth once more. Well, listen, I'm so proud of this movie. I'm so proud to be a part of it. I'm amazed by what you were able to accomplish because it is so serpentine.

And when you take the pieces apart, you look at how complicated it is. But you did such an elegant job of making it fun, breezy, enjoyable. We were at the premiere on Thursday in LA. People were just cheering and dancing in their seat. It was great. First time any of the artists had seen the movie. So that was terrifying, right? Yeah, yeah. And they were so happy. They got to meet the guys that created the word, which I've never met before.

How did that go over? Everything okay? Hugs all around. I felt like I was tearing the wall down. It was pretty amazing. You know, bringing countries together, you know, so it was really special. Like,

this comes out the day after Thanksgiving. It is the perfect film. No matter how contentious your Thanksgiving dinner is this year, you could all just watch it together and vibe out

and listen to the smooth, sweet sounds of yacht rock. It's a great pitch. Garrett, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers

what's the last great thing they've seen. Have you seen anything great recently? I just binged the TV series Cross on Amazon. Garrett, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing they've seen. Have you seen anything great recently? I just binged the TV series Cross on Amazon. Oh, the Aldous Hodge show?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I actually, it was the perfect thing to watch. You know, we watched all eight, ten episodes back to back. Interesting.

It was the perfect thing I needed. What's the vibe? Because I remember Alex Cross from Tyler Perry from the film. Right. But what is the energy of this show? It's darker. It's a serial killer film series, but it's cool. I think

there's a there's a vibe to it, too. OK. And I know some of the people involved. This is not some I'm on the Amazon payroll stuff, right? You're being you're being straight with me. I enjoyed it immensely. Got a great recommendation. Garrett Price. Thanks so much. Appreciate everything on Yacht Rock. Thanks. Thanks to Garrett Price. Thanks to Yossi and Rob. Thanks to Jack Sanders. Thanks to producer Olivia Creary filling in for Bobby on today's episode. Next week, we will dig into Steve McQueen's Blitz

and our top five favorite World War II movies. We'll see you then. Thank you.