The Big Picture - Instant Reactions to a Truly Ludicrous Golden Globes | The Oscars Show (Ep. 115)

Episode Date: January 7, 2019

We unpack a shocking night as the Golden Globes crown ‘Bohemian Rhapsody,’ Rami Malek, Glenn Close, and ‘Green Book’ — and ‘A Star Is Born’ comes away with only one award. What does it mean going forward for Oscars front-runners Bradley Cooper, Lady Gaga, and more? Hosts: Sean Fennessey, Amanda Dobbins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Liz Kelley. The Rewatchables podcast is officially back and will be coming to you every Tuesday in 2019. The season will kick off on January 8th with The Godfather, and you can catch up on all the recent episodes featuring Tombstone, Con Air, and All the President's Men. And with The Bachelor back for a new season, be sure to check out Bachelor Party with Juliette Lipman for all related news and recaps. You can download and subscribe to both of those shows on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the dumbest goddamn award show in the history of time. Amanda, we just watched the Golden Globes and I am near speechless. How are you feeling?

I'm ready to talk, which is good because it's a podcast. We are going to talk on this podcast about a truly ludicrous award ceremony. I guess not surprising in the context of the Golden Globes, though once again the Golden Globes has found an effective way to make us all look stupid by choosing the wrong and weirdest thing in the biggest awards. So we're going to talk specifically at first about the two biggest head scratchers of the night, which I think is safe to say the win by Green Book in Best Musical or Comedy, which, you know, we did discuss this a little bit last week. We thought this could happen because this is the kind of movie that they like. And they did like it and they did give it.

And Peter Farrelly gave quite a long, complicated speech. And the other one, of course, is Bohemian Rhapsody winning best drama, which I'm... I know, I'm not helping. I'm just like staring at you and making prayer hands. You know, okay, let me just set the stage really quickly. We had a really nice afternoon, me and you, right? Yes, I did. I came over to your house.

You made a wonderful veggie chili. We watched the Eagles game with your husband and our dear colleague, Chris Ryan. And good Lord, the Eagles pulled it out. You know, it was a miraculous victory that the heavens opened up. It seemed like a good omen. Yes. Of things to come. This could have been a wonderful night for A Star is Born.

It could have been a wonderful night for If Beale Street Could Talk and a wonderful night for Vice. A wonderful night for any movie that we like. And it mostly was not. No. It mostly was not. The show started and then stuff happened. So we were talking about this earlier. I feel that I was lulled into a false sense of security by the nominations.

And you know what? This is on me. I let my guard down. Should have known better. I should have known better because this is the HFPA. But Vice was in there. Beale Street. The Favorite.

A Star is Born. I'm like, what a great year for film. I'm sure this is going to go great. You know, and then they had Annie Sandberg and Sandra Oh as hosts. And I was like, that seems like a great decision. You know, the Oscars hired Kevin Hart and this is a mess. But the Golden Globes, this is going to be fun. This is going to be fun. This is going to be fun.

And you know what I forgot, Sean? What'd you forget? I forgot that the Hollywood Foreign Press Association is a joke. They are a joke. And I really, we've talked a lot about how they really like celebrities, and we've made fun of them, but that really just scratches the surface. My husband is also a journalist and has done a lot of work about the Hollywood Foreign Press Association. And he described them to me earlier this afternoon as the people who tweeted airlines. And that's not even name calling.

That's a factual statement because the list of these 90 members are available and you can find their Twitter feeds and you can find them tweeting at American Airlines asking for upgrades. It's not even good tweeting. It's not even like, please help me with my layover. It's like, can you just give me free stuff, which is the other summary of the Hollywood Foreign Press Association. That's the subtext. Yeah. And so, of course, these people are going to make ludicrous and dumb decisions. We wouldn't let them on this podcast. How are we letting them give out awards? It's a pretty crazy thing. And, you know, the immediate reaction that we got from people as soon as the show ended was, help me understand how this happened. This is really weird. Now, it's obvious that both Green Book and Bohemian Rhapsody are well-liked by a lot of people,

particularly Bohemian Rhapsody, which is a massive hit. I get why some people who don't pay close attention to this stuff would be like, settle down. Why are you yelling on this podcast at nine o'clock at night? So I, you know So I can sense why people would be, some people would be very confused by it. And some people would be like, you need to chill out. This award show is meaningless. It is meaningless. It is historically bad. I would suggest that those people listen to a different podcast, but anyway. Yes. We're obviously wholly invested here and sincere about this in a lot of ways, probably to our own detriment. By the end of the show, I was like, I feel like I have created a new reality for myself. And I think it's silly

to get too wrapped up in it, but we're going to try to take it sincerely, particularly because Oscar voting opens at midnight tonight. And there is some ramification to the outcome of these awards.

So everything that did happen will have blowback. So we're going to just go right to the big pictures, big picture. We're going to start with Green Book. Green Book won three awards tonight, I believe. Mahershala Ali, who we love and who gave a wonderful speech for best supporting actor, I think he has a very strong chance to win that award at the Oscars, particularly now. The three screenwriters won for best screenwriting, which is very complicated. I'm kind of dreading discussing, like sort of

breaking down that win. And then of course it won as we said, best musical or comedy. Should we start with Mahershala just to make it easy? Yeah, I think we both expected that one. And he is well-liked as an actor. And I thought it was surprising that, but also probably savvy that he did not acknowledge any of the controversy around the character that he plays in his speech. He went for full sincere, as I think you put it, and it was earnest. He thanked his wife, his mother, and his grandmother at the end. You know, Mahershala is about to be starring in the third season of True Detective on HBO. He's a star. People like him. I think that he can float above the other problems of the movie and probably will.

And I really wish him well. I want him to have like a nice long career and I don't want him to be sidelined because of some other people's choices. I agree with you. I mean, there's a real complexity to talking about this and this will dovetail with best screenplay. When I first saw Green Book, I liked it. You and I talked about it on this podcast. I think it's very winning primarily because as you particularly noted, Mahershala Ali and Viggo Mortensen are very fun actors to be with. And the script is written in a way that it kind of brings out the best of both of them. And they both give unique particular performances. They're both very skilled actors. When we saw it, I don't think we knew really anything about how the real life aspects of the story were or were not properly interpreted. We've heard a lot

from Don Shirley's family. We've heard a lot from the Vallelonga family. Of course, the son of Vallelonga, Viggo Mortensen's character, is one of the co-writers of the movie. I don't necessarily think that movies have to be true to be good. In fact, it's often better when they're not true. The problem is, is when you claim that something is wholly true, as Peter Farrelly and all the producers and the screenwriters have said about this movie, it puts viewers and voters in a real bind because then you have to accept that on its face purely. And we're not voters, we're viewers, but the burden has become heavier every week with this movie. And there is like a full blown section of the population that wants it canceled, literally that wants it to go away forever. So these three

wins and screenwriting in particular, because that feels like a little bit of the twist of the knife. I think that feels like a little bit of like, it doesn't matter that we think that this didn't really happen because we want to just reward this movie no matter what. There's something fun about it that we like. And it feels, I think for some people it would be weirdly hurtful. Does that make sense to you? Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's not just that it didn't reflect the truth. But this is a movie written by the family of one side.

One of the characters and not the other. And so much of that both in the literal is this true or not. And also in the fact that this is a movie about a white guy. It is, you know, and I thought the visual tonight was really, really stark on stage. There was just a tremendous number of white people on stage accepting the award for this movie that is supposed to be about overcoming racism and the time to forge a friendship. So when you're rewarding screenplay, you're rewarding that choice and that emphasis. And I think that is hurtful. And I think that I understand why people are like, what the hell?

Yep. And I guess picture is an extension of that. I think that people do. When we talked about it, I compared it to a rom-com, a platonic rom-com. And both of these awards, we'll talk about Bohemian Rhapsody, feel a little bit like, you know what, I had a nice time at the movies. Isn't that nice? And I do think that a little bit of this is people just wanting to be like, that was a nice friendship. This was a nice performance between two people.

You know, I thought Peter Farrelly's speech was probably the low point of the night for me. It was quite long. He had typed it all out. He was anticipating this. And he wanted to make a statement about how he and his movie have the solution to so many of the world's problems, which, like, no. And it was very self-righteous and it was very, if everyone will just calm down, we can all get along. This will be okay, which is rich coming from him. It does not really seem like he has engaged with any of the criticism,

thought about it, tried to move to a deeper understanding. And I think that's in keeping with, if I had to divine the spirit of these 90 people who I don't respect, I have to assume that that's what they're voting for, right? Like, whatever. It was a nice movie. We can all get along. Leave us alone. Yeah. I mean, it's possible that it was more than that. It's possible that it's one of the few movies that is here that has a truly happy ending. You know, the way that it's positioned is very cheery and sort of we're all in the family together it's very much in the spirit of the the speech that Farrelly gave which you know was interesting he did the thing where he shushed them trying to play him off and he made them stop playing him off and he gave the full

speech and there was you know it was fairly awkward in the room there was a lot of panning around in some of the celebrities faces they did not look particularly ecstatic about this. I will say there was a narrative that Green Book tanked at the box office. And then over the last four or five weeks, it has not been tanking. And I wonder if now they're going to use this to kind of springboard it back into a lot of theaters. And then slowly but surely, that weird momentum that we talk about in Best Picture starts to happen. Like this could happen. Like the same way that I thought that this could happen with the Globes,

this could happen with the Oscars. It all depends on the voting body and who comes out and who decides to, you know, preferential balloting. You've talked about already a bunch. That's in play here. There's so many factors and something like this happening in a movie like that,

having a big moment during a show like this is meaningful. You know, I don't hate Green Book. I don't think it should be destroyed forever. I just think it's obviously hugely flawed. And it feels like it hurt people in the Shirley family. And if that's the case, like, that sucks. That's terrible. I don't want that to happen.

So this is a very dicey one. It is also, it's just not the best movie of the year by any stretch of the imagination. And there is something to that, that like, really, we have to take this seriously. We have to keep talking about this it was fine too problematic you know and like depending on how you watch it it's you know a silly movie or it's a hurtful movie and i think it's probably both and we really just have to keep talking about this in the oscar category it just kind of feels like there are better options. We could do better than this.

It's funny. Like I was hoping that this wouldn't happen, not because I want bad things for the producers of Green Book or anything like that, but just particularly because I didn't want another three billboards this year. I just didn't want another movie that from a purely professional editorial perspective, you and I were just going to have to tangle with for two months that we just don't really care about that much that we know has problems that is also you know frankly going

to be over covered in terms of like how problematic it is like that's a whole other side of this and I just kind of wish movies like this would go away like there's so many the Roma versus Star is Born thing felt so natural and easy to me and that feels like a million miles away right now right it just doesn't seem like we're even close to that conversation. I agree. We are like an hour after the Golden Globes. And I do think that preferential ballot, I mean, I know I say this in every podcast, and it's really like a prayer at this point, I guess.

I'm like secreting into existence, like the preferential ballot will save us, even though it's a dumb system. What am I believing in institutions? This is, you know, this is a reality check for me. But I don't know that it's suddenly the front runner. No, no, I don't think so either. You know, I think it, and I do also think, like, to the question of is this the three billboards of this year? Yes, probably.

And I think we're going to have three billboards every year until we fix a lot of larger problems in Hollywood and the world at large. So in some ways, like we're just kind of stuck with this until everyone can pull their head out of their ass. It's a great point and it's well put. It's a long process, but I'm not happy about it. It's a real shame. Speaking of a long process and our head up our ass, let's talk about Bohemian Rhapsody. Okay. Bohemian Rhapsody won two awards tonight.

It won Best Actor in a Drama for Rami Malek, who, you know, I'm loathe to use the word deserving. I think that's a silly thing to talk about around this time. But he gives a great performance. And the reason this movie works at all is because he obviously gave everything he had to it and worked his ass off. And he gave a very nice, very very very sincere speech um perhaps too sincere it was it was not

one of the night's best speeches i agree bohemian rhapsody also won for best drama which is just fucking weird like it's just it's just just really stupid um this movie is not good uh it's not worthy of being in the category it's also a false category option. There's just so many things about this. There's no mention of Bryan Singer during this telecast. He filmed approximately 60% of this film. He's obviously a pariah right now in the industry. We've said a million times everybody likes to listen to Queen songs. I love to listen to Queen songs. The louder, the but this is this is like a joke this is why people are like this award show sucks i think green book is why people are like this is why this award show sucks and i think that this is why people are like i don't respect the golden gloves because this is so stupid it's six and one half dozen of the other as far as i'm concerned you know there there's a there's a little bit of difference because the Green Book thing is just kind of like, oh, and this is lol what? Yeah, it is. And, you know, sorry to speak in Internet terms, but it's funny in our in the ringer slack about the war sort of night at people were dissecting this one.

And there were a lot of people saying, you know what? I had fun at Bohemian Rhapsody and so did everyone I know. And guess what? I had fun at Bohemian Rhapsody and so did everyone I know. And guess what? I did too. We have to be able as a society and also as people who freaking vote on awards, even if they're made up ones and you're not real journalists, to tell the difference between movies that are fun and enjoyable and movies that are good. And this is the time to talk about the good movies. And Bohemian Rhapsody is not one of them. That's what I have to say. When the PGA's came out last week,

the PGA nominations for Best Picture, there were a few notable omissions, particularly if Beale Street could talk. And Bohemian Rhapsody was on the list. And there were a couple of reasons for that. I think one of the reasons, this is kind of secondhand wisdom that I've received, is Graham King, the producer of the movie, is a very well-respected producer in Hollywood. He had

been dying to get Bohemian Rhapsody made for many, many years, and he fought hard to get it done. And he got it done at a studio with a real budget, and they did it big. They did it really big. And he hired a big-time director, and he got the right star after many other people had been up for the role and didn't get it. And he pulled it off and it turned into a massive hit. And that's a good story for Hollywood. You know, they made a massive hit inside the studio system with, and they made a new movie star and they were able to celebrate show business in a way.

So I get that, but I also think it's really going to come at the expense of a lot of stuff. Like First Man is gone. What does this do for Beale Street? I don't know. It's not good. And that's unfortunate. Like the last thing that we saw tonight was Bohemian Rhapsody. It's not great. I mean, I'm not happy. It may be nominated now as a result of this, which is a shame. And I guess. I feel fairly certain that it will be, which is weird.

I mean, you know, to talk about the PGA thing, my understanding is just that the PGA go where the money is. And that is often a recognition of box office success, which, you know what, is very hard to do. And I don't mean to turn my nose up at making money, which is great and why we're all out here doing our jobs. But that was my understanding. And the Academy doesn't always go for that. It doesn't. There's often like an 8 to 10 correlation somewhere in that vicinity.

And so sometimes you have Beasts of the Southern Wild, which is like not on the PGA's radar. Right. But is on the Oscar radar. It's possible that something like Beale Street or I don't know. I mean, many things are vulnerable. Maybe Black Klansman is vulnerable. We don't know. Maybe Crazy Rich Asians has a better shot to get in than we think.

There's a lot of things that are kind of fluid here. Winds like this historically look ridiculous, but inform the present in a serious way. So I don't know if that necessarily explains what happened here. That's my best understanding of what happened with these awards. You know, I don't think the Rami Malek win is nightmarish in any way. No, I think we expected it. It would be disappointing if it happened at the Oscars. So Christian Bale also won, and we'll talk a little bit about that race later.

He won in the comedy category and gave a great speech. I don't know. I'm not sure if Rami Malek could actually win. I will say I have a lot of doubts about the Star is Born campaign right now. Yes. This is definitely the lowest I've felt about it. A week ago, I was like,

lock it up, 10 for 10, ASIB. We're going to Valhalla with this movie. and i guess we're not going to valhalla maybe just to the shallow uh should we talk about the hosts of this show yes so sandra oh and andy sandberg as you mentioned hosted and i thought it was okay that's kind of my review i agree i felt like it was not a 100% success, but I left with the same goodwill towards them that I entered with, which frankly, I don't know what else you're looking for. I didn't expect them to do a transcendent stand-up special before handing out awards. I think some of it is creating a vibe. Some of it is getting a few one-liners and just to keep it, I keep saying this, but keep it moving and string the energy together. And I thought they

did that. The monologue was too long. Much too long. Yeah. You know, I think that if you're not a person who tells jokes for a living, then producers should not put you in the position of telling jokes for 12 minutes. That's just, you got to be in a position to succeed. And I don't know that the show always put them in. Yeah, they took an interesting tact, which is that they took Andy Samberg's bit from the Justin Bieber roast, I believe, which was the sort of like nice person roast and just lifted it wholesale for like an eight minute long segment. And Andy Samberg is really good at that bit.

This one wasn't as good as the last one and sandra oh is great but like not that funny like not funny enough to carry that for she's seven minutes she's not that kind of funny like i mean she does other things and she is charismatic and a great actress and funny and a person you want to be around and a person you want to watch but do i want her to watch her doing an snl bit or yeah even a tina fey bit like no it's it she's a different person has a different she has a different presence and it you know they were right they weren't writing for her they weren't and and i that was a bummer i felt like um when amy puller and maya rudolph came out to do kind of an extended two-hander for two different awards. It really kind of showed like what a seasoned hand is like here and what something who's a little bit more amateur is like, because those two, obviously they're friends and they have

extraordinary chemistry, but they just were kind of on a wavelength of commanding the room that I'd never felt like Sandberg and Oh really had. I think that's true. I would say two things in response to that. Number one, it's Amy Po and maya rudolph who are like two of the best comedy legends and this specific banter and looseness like this is what they do yeah i do also think every time we watch an award show everyone's like oh those presenters were great after three minutes they should host the whole show and presenting is very different from hosting the pressure is not on you which changes the whole vibe also it's only three minutes as opposed to 20 at the beginning.

Someone should have told Chris Pine that when he was introducing Jeff Bridges because he did not seem super loose as an introducer. You're right, and I'm not saying this should have been Polar and Rudolph. It's easy to do that about anybody. They actually would be great,

so feel free. They would be amazing. I think I pitched Maya Rudolph and Fred Armisen And you said absolutely not That at the Emmys was trying It was being too weird in the context I want to say about Sandra and Andy Samberg They were trying a bunch of stuff They got some great one-liners in

Yes, and it kind of Awards shows are broken As we know, we'll talk a little bit about the Oscars We're kind of talked out about that mess But awards shows are broken, as we know. We'll talk a little bit about the Oscars. We're kind of talked out about that mess. But awards shows are kind of a leftover of a different type of TV and a different type of TV viewing. And nobody really knows quite what to do. And I thought that they were trying something new. Some things worked.

Some things didn't. I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt i don't think it was perfect but you know it's something for someone else to build on what did you think of the general pace of the show did you feel like it moved quickly because so often when we watch these shows and i certainly don't say this i fucking hate when people say this but people are like it's too long it's way too long it's like i at what point did we have to say like we need to demarcate this fake award show that is full of famous people giving each other stuff? Like, I don't understand why it needs to be a certain amount of time.

And that being said, it never occurred to me at any moment that this was, like, really running over for time or anything like that. Well, the Golden Globes has the benefit of just being the major categories and the recognizable people. There is always that low point in the Oscars where, you know what, and respect to craftsmanship, but there are like four different technical awards and then they're like, here's one more montage about how movies are important.

And you're just like, no. It's like a 45 minute stretch where nothing that means anything to the general public happens. And the Golden Globes don't have that problem. I will say, though, that a couple of times where they deviated from really famous people, it did lag, including both awards, both special awards, with all the respect in the world to Carol Burnett,

whose show I watched growing up and who I love. But, you know... The show kind of just halted in the middle of that. And it certainly halted for the Jeff of that yeah and it certainly halted for the jeff bridges imdb page i like to think it surfed it was sort of gliding yeah again in the in the ether of of cbd that he was on respect to jeff bridges yeah i will say i was thinking about how um that space last year was filled by oprah who gave one of the most moving speeches from an awards show in recent memory. So yeah, it was not perfect. I think that just the actual DNA of the show keeps it moving a bit

more. And when they move away from that, you can tell. I promised on Twitter that we would say 100 Hail Marys and 300 Our fathers and i also promised that um you and i would sing a rendition of shallow yeah on this this podcast you didn't run that by me um we won't be doing that not now but i would like to make like a real wager of some kind so let's let's let's like germinate on this for things that we. Of things that we'll do? Yeah. If what happens. Maybe wild shit that we'll make you do on this podcast. Okay, great.

I'll think about it. Feel free to tweet us at The Big Pick. Things you want to hear Amanda sing. She was singing Shallow all the way in here. I was, yeah.

Bobby wasn't recording at our producer, Bobby. It's his fault that you can't hear it. But anyway. Tough weekend for Bobby Wagner. He lost the Seahawks playoff game

and now he's here producing the show for us. Sorry, Bobby. Anything else we should say about the actual show itself? Because I thought it was like fine. I'm actually this is sort of frivolous, but I'm curious to see what the ratings are because I'm curious to see how engaged people are in this kind of a show in 2019. I actually have no idea and I think it will be interesting. I don't know. There wasn't any big, obviously Bohemian Rhapsody made a lot of money, but no one thought it was going to win. And who's watching in order for Bohemian Rhapsody to win an award?

The people in my mentions? I don't know. Yeah, I guess so. You know what was funny and what I wanted to remark upon was that Rami Malek's speech, which I didn't think was very good, was kind of spacey and not really going anywhere until he thanks Queen. And then the room lost its mind for Queen. And it just really was a summary of the whole experience is people just want to cheer for Queen. I mean, so do I. And a silver-maned Brian May sitting behind Rami Malek. That was a good touch.

It's true. Maybe we should just listen to more Queen instead of watching Bowie Me and Rhapsody. Yeah, but I don't think that makes for TV ratings, so. Amanda, let's go to Stock Up, Stock Down. I think this leaves us with one serious conversation about A Star is Born. A Star is Born won one award tonight. Who accepted that award?

Mark Ronson. Mark Ronson, your beloved Mark Ronson. I know my husband gets so mad when I say this in public, but it's true. I find him so handsome. I can't. Anyway, he looked very sharp tonight. Yes, he accepted the award. What was funny is that the announcer said accepting this award is Mark Ronson. And then there were several other people up there including Lady Gaga. Yes. It was unfortunate that Mark Ronson

spoke the most. I think he and the rest of us assumed that Lady Gaga would be up on stage later to have her moment and that did not happen. Sad.

But it did basically end with Mark Ronson reading a poem that he composed about the SS Shallow like directly to Lady Gaga's face, which I don't know. I would like a do-over in that category as a Mark Ronson fan. That was a peculiar moment, I will say. I am a fan of Mark Ronson. He's a lovely fellow. I've

talked to him a few times. He is also quite handsome and great job by him working on Shallow. Can't deny the power and wonder of that song. In hindsight, Lady Gaga not being the primary recipient of that award, given that A Star Is Born did not win anything else, feels weird. That feels weird. It does. I assume, I do think because the announcer was like, Mark Ronson accepting the award,

that it was arranged ahead of time with the assumption that she would win. I think that they were as blindsided as the rest of us were by all the other victories that were not Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper. Truly wild. Where does this leave A Star Is Born? I really don't know. Is it possible it's completely unaffected and that it is still kind of a juggernaut? It is possible. I think primarily because, and we'll talk more about the breakdown of Academy

voters in the coming weeks, but actors are far and away the largest subcategory of voters. And I do think that the actors love this movie and they love what Bradley Cooper becoming a director means for, you know, their futures and bank accounts and whatnot. So I think it is probably not as big a deal as it feels in this moment. I will say, though, I feel like every week we're kind of like, yeah, and then the Star is Born train will kick up again. I keep waiting for it to come back and really be a big deal and a presence in everyone else's life and thought that was going to be tonight. And it's not.

It is not. I think it would have been very easy to imagine a world in which we're here right now. And you are, you and Bobby are lightly annoyed with me because it's just chalk all down the board. It's a star is born. It's maybe vice and Mary Poppins Returns, and they all win the awards, and it's just not very interesting, and there's no narrative to push forward,

and there's no outrage. And then we just head right on into Oscar season. And instead, we got like a super globesy night of just nonsense all throughout. And it caught me by surprise. It definitely caught me by surprise. I thought that there was a possibility that these weird things could shake out,

but for neither Gaga nor Cooper to win actor and Cooper not to win director and, of course, not to win best drama, I don't think I would have taken that bet 100 out of 100 times that it wouldn't have gotten any of those four. I agree. And it's so baffling in terms of the narratives that we have specific to the Golden Globes of, oh, they like celebrities. Okay, well, Bradley Cooper and Lady Gaga are two of the most famous people in Hollywood or in pop music currently that we have. And this idea of, oh, Hollywood loves movies about itself, which this, you know, is technically about a musician, but it is about fame and it's a remake three times over. And it's about, you know, how film can or music or art or whatever can save anything. Well, almost anything, I guess. Spoiler.

But, you know, so it's surprising to me in that sense. But turns out they wanted the real thing. I guess so. You know, except for like all the lies in Bohemian Rhapsody. Right. It's a lie. But some of this to me is just logistics. I've been thinking a lot about this.

Like A Star Is Born came out in October and Bohemian Rhapsody came out in November and has just been in theaters. And I have been thinking a lot about how no one in my civilian life has seen A Star is Born because they just didn't go in October. And it hasn't been pushed back out, and it's not available yet. And it was a huge deal to us on the internet and to everyone who listens to this podcast or to everyone who's a Mark Ronson fan. But, and it did make a lot of money, but I don't know. Now I'm wondering like, is a star is, are we overrating A Star is Born? That's kind of where I'm starting to, is the reach not as far as perhaps this podcast originally posited? Wow, that is quite a fascinating self-referential nightmare for me.

I think it's possible that it ends up becoming one of these weird Oscar history cause celebs. And it's just like, how did this happen? How did this movie not get recognized? I think that it's weird because I always thought it's kind of inherent schmaltziness and old-fashionedness is what would elevate it, you know? And unfortunately, it's the schmaltziness and old-fashionedness of Bohemian Rhapsody and Green Book that we're really discussing tonight. I mean, they all have the same kind of like metaphysical aspect, you know? There's something like very polished and studio and historically Hollywood in the approach of all three of those movies. So for this, but this one does have a little bit of like, forgive me, but like a little bit of grit, I think.

A little bit of like anxiety and darkness in a way that the others don't. And maybe that's working against it. I don't know. Bobby's asking us a good question, which is, does this maybe cut the other way? Is it possible that this reminds voters Stars Born was a phenomenon? You loved it. Don't forget to reward it. It's possible.

I mean, voting does start in like an hour. Maybe it's East Coast. Maybe it started now, for all I know. The ballots are open. Yeah, I think that's possible. And I assume that as a result of this bradley cooper and lady gaga will be campaigning like nobody's business you know i really feel like my husband pointed out to me also in his golden globes capacity that bohemian rhapsody was just working it they were

working so hard with the hollywood foreign press they were there all of the time. And obviously, Bradley Cooper and Lady Gaga have big platforms and do some press, but I don't really think they've been kissing babies in the same way. And so perhaps they will now. Okay, well, we'll have to keep a close eye on Star is Born for the next six weeks because it finds itself in a perilous state. I suspect it will bounce back in a serious way when the nominations are announced, but we shall see. Let's pivot now to the big race. We're going to talk about two different races. Amanda, I'll start here. Have you seen the movie The Wife? I haven't, and now I feel really bad. Yeah. I was so moved by Glenn Close's speech. I really was. I thought it was wonderful. And when she started talking about her mother and that, that didn't feel cheap.

That felt real. I, I'm going to see the wife. I also just want to clarify part of the reason I haven't seen the wife is because it was impossible to see unless I, you know, was on a plane. Yeah. But you've been on some other planes now. You've had a chance. We've all had a chance. But our bit was not opposed to the wife. It was more, does the wife exist? It is not a judgment of the wife. Now the wife exists and I'm going to seek it out. I mean, she made a very thoughtful observation, which is that this movie was really hard to get made because it was called The Wife. The whole ethic of this thing, our joke really turned in on itself during her speech. And I think, honestly, the Oscar race kind of turned in on itself a little bit with the acceptance speech because they were cutting away during the telecast to women crying in the audience. And obviously what she said was very

powerful. Glenn Close, for all of the jokes we've been making for weeks and weeks, is no doubt one of the best living actresses in the world, one of the best living actors, period, in the world, and has been nominated for many Oscars. So it's not like this shouldn't be weird. It's impossible for me to say how good her performance was in the movie The Wife. Maybe that will change sometime in the near future. I think that it'll be funny if Gaga starts to move out of the frame and it becomes a little bit more Glenn Close versus the other winner tonight, Olivia Colman, who took the best comedy musical performance for The Favorite. She also gave a great speech, which was far less composed and far less pre-written i believe the word blimey was used yes um which was delightful uh she thanked everyone for the sandwiches did that also happen she did thank someone for some sandwiches she thanked emma

stone and rachel vice as my bitches and was bleeped out at some point i believe so it was very off the cuff. All of that makes it sound sort of not disrespectful, but kind of over it. And that was not the case at all. She was delighted to be there. She was just kind of speaking in her personality, which seems to be a bit loosey-goosey and eccentric

and very charming. And it was great. You know, I watched that speech and I was like, oh, great, okay, Olivia Colman's going to win. And then know, I watched that speech and I was like, oh, great. Okay, Olivia Colman's going to win. And then I watched the Glenn Close speech and I was like, oh, okay, now Glenn Close is going to win for the wife. Yeah, we're in this crazy distortion field where the Bohemian Rhapsody win happens and I'm like, what a load of shit. This is a dumb award show.

And then the Glenn Close win happens and I'm like, oh, this is really moving. And the Oscars, maybe they have a new frontrunner here. Neither things are true. You know, they're not related to each other. 87 people vote for the HFPA. 8,000 people vote for the Academy. There's no crossover between either of those bodies whatsoever. The campaigning is different.

The telecast is different. Yada, yada, yada. But I had the same feeling watching both of them. I was like, these are really smart, credible actresses who at least one of them gave a great performance. Yeah. The other TVD. And I don't know. It's weird for somebody as, you know, larger than life, Lady Gaga, to be nudged out of the frame by two middle-aged actresses with, like, really strong CVs,

but none of the kind of like overwhelming glam of Gaga, especially at this award show. At this award show, it's shocking. I was really, really surprised by the Gaga loss. Though I will say, Glenn Close has also really been on the festival circuit and working it and accepting every single award and doing retrospective.

That's ongoing. I was in Palm Springs recently and there was a whole magazine rack of just the Palm Springs magazine, I guess, or whatever it's called, which is giant Glenn Close on the cover. It was just a sea of Glenn Closes confronting me for my lack of responsibility and seeing the waif. So she is definitely working it. And she was probably always in the race a bit more than we wanted to give her credit for, I guess, or than we wanted to acknowledge. But I found the Gaga thing shocking. It was pretty shocking. Were you shocked at all by Christian Bale's win? No, I wasn't. No,

neither was I. I feel fairly strongly that Christian Bale will win another Oscar this year. And I thought it was going to be Cooper. And my opinion has been slowly changing. I feel like that initial wave of negative Vice press is kind of going away. People seem to like Vice. It did very well at the box office this weekend and he's really good in this movie and i it just kind of feels like one of those things where daniel day lewis is out of the frame and now everybody's like this is our best actor and they want to say that and this will giving him a second one will be a way to kind of officially coronate that and you know if there is some threat from rami malik fine and if the Star is Born comes back in a big way, fine.

But I think he's kind of like, he was unafraid to get political in his speech, but also didn't get any of the backlash that comes with something like that. You know, there was no, none of the Mitch McConnell heads came out in full force. That was so great. It was just an amazingly funny moment. I mean, him thanking Satan. It's just wonderful. He seemed to be like a, Chris Ryan described him as like an usher at a West Ham game. You know, like a really, a cheery kind of like chimney sweep from Mary Poppins in a way.

I actually did think about how the accent was very similar. It was, right? Yeah. What do you think about my bail theory? I agree with you. I will say I think the Golden Globes speeches really do matter for actor and actress. They are kind of an audition. Yep. And if you hit the right note, you really can just coast the goodwill all the way to the Oscars.

And this was loopy, but funny. And he, as you said, hit the right note of political, but without being preachy. It was really engaging. I was kind of like, oh, I didn't know that Christian Bale was a fun hang. Let me quiz you really quickly. So I'm sure you know the answer to these questions. The first is who won best actor in a drama at the Globes last year?

Was it Gary Oldman? It was. Who won best actress in a drama at the Globes last year? Was it Gary Oldman? It was. Who won best actress in a drama at the Globes last year? Frances McDormand. That's correct. Who won best actress in a comedy or musical at the Globes last year? Saoirse Ronan. Correct.

Who won best actor? At a comedy? This is the award that Christian Bale just won. No, I know. Hold on. Let me think. I have no idea. The answer is James Franco. So. Whoa. Oh, that's right. And then the Ali Sheedy tweets. Yes. Yeah.

Wow. So this is an interesting thing because my immediate reaction to Christian Bale was like, Christian Bale going right to the top. Lo and behold, James Franco not nominated and very shortly thereafter kind of you know blown out of the frame with a very complicated story about some accusations

around him and that just goes to show you this is a very frivolous award show you know nothing none of this stuff

really well and truly matters that's true the other thing I was going to point out this was the only win for Vice yes it was out of six nominations

I believe the most of any film tonight I thought Amy Adams was going to get more love on both counts she lost both races she was in Yes, it was. Out of six nominations, I believe, the most of any film tonight. I thought Amy Adams was going to get more love. On both counts, she lost both races she was in. She and Regina King were both up for awards. Regina King, of course, won for Beale Street, which was fantastic.

She also gave a great speech. I don't want to not represent her, but you're right. Only won for six is not a great average. So I had kind of thought if it really did win, if it won Best Comedy, if Amy Adams and Christian Bale won, that it would kind of, again, have some renewed momentum. More people would go see it.

It would be in the conversation more. It doesn't look like that's going to happen. It seems like he might be the only one, but I can really, I can see it happening. It's just the performance that everyone likes so much. Yeah. It's kind of incontrovertible, you know? It's just like, this is good. That's Yeah. It's kind of incontrovertible.

It's just like, this is good. That's it. That's all that happens. No Rockwell love either. No Leslie Bibb on the telecast. Am I right? She was there. She was really enjoying Jeff Bridges' speech.

She was making the supportive Leslie Bibb face. Just the, I'm so glad that you're up there doing you face that she's great at. She's a rock. I mean, you know, let's give Leslie Bibb some time to shine in her own. I agree. It was great tonight. Thank you, Leslie Bibb. She's a perfectly good actress, but she's truly a. She's a rock. I mean, you know, let's give Leslie Bibb some time to shine in her own, but yeah. I agree. It was great tonight. Thank you, Leslie Bibb.

She's a perfectly good actress, but she's truly a rock at award shows. While we're just talking about other stuff during this telecast, I would like to give a shout out to Spider-Man

Into the Spider-Verse, a pick that I made and feel very strongly about, which won Best Animated Feature, which was, I believe, the second award given tonight. And you were very psyched

about somebody who accepted that award. I'd like to give a shout out to Amy Pascal's look. She was in the back wearing fur and had a great blowout. Amy Pascal is back. Amy Pascal, for those of you who don't know, and I assume if you're listening to this podcast, you're very familiar with her, but for years she ran the film division at Sony, one of the most powerful women in Hollywood. Of course, she was essentially asked to step down in the aftermath of a hacking scandal and a series of difficult years at the box office. Upon exiting, she negotiated a very smart producing deal. And part of that producing deal was she got the rights to

be the producer of Spider-Man movies. Her first Spider-Man movie, she got to produce in conjunction with Marvel and made Spider-Man Homecoming. Great movie. Her second Spider-Man movie is Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse, which I think is now going to win an Oscar. Shout out to motherfucking Amy Pascal, one of the smartest people in Hollywood for years and years and years. She's back looking great. Good for her.

There was also a good moment, I believe, from Lady Gaga that you wanted to cite. Oh, this was great. Yes. So we're all familiar with the 99 people in a room anecdote. There are 99 people in a room who don't believe in you. But there's one person and that person was Bradley Cooper. And Lady Gaga has said that like more than 100 times at this point.

And Andy Samberg and Sandra Oh made fun of it in their monologue. And I actually thought the bit was pretty good because like I think Andy Samberg did it first and then Sandra Oh did it. Yes. And they cut to Lady Gaga and she very good naturedly just grabs Bradley Cooper and then just yells, it's true. Which clearly she knows we've all been making fun of her. She knows she's been doing a thing and she was just like, whatever. It was a weirdly looser Gaga tonight than usual in the brief glimpses we got of her. I was very into it. I thought it was going to portend a more loosey-goosey kind of night.

I don't think it was particularly, like, rowdy. There wasn't, there was that pre, sort of pre-written bit with Jim Carrey where he was asked to move from the film section to the TV section. It was kind of stilted. A lot of people's feelings were hurt in that. I mean, that was my interpretation of it, that no one in the room thought that that was funny at all. Yeah.

Do you have any reflections on the TV awards? I would highly encourage people to check out The Watch and, of course, read Alison Herman, who wrote about the hosts and the show itself on TheR all. Yeah. Do you have any reflections on the TV Awards? I would highly encourage people to check out The Watch and of course read Alison Herman who wrote about the hosts and the show itself on TheRinger.com but the TV Awards and the show

I'm always kind of like they're weirdly more progressive than the Emmys but also I never remember anything about them. They were not for me the TV Awards. They weren't this year.

I mean the shows were Kaminsky Method, Americans, and Assassination of Gianni Versace. That's a good point. I meant historically I feel like it is. Oh, yeah. They were early on awarding streaming shows and they're always trying to like find it.

Like they were early on Atlanta. There were a couple of things. They do a good job of always like they famously Rachel Brosnahan and won last year for Maisel. And I think I can't remember if Maisel won last year, but that was enough to kind of propel Maisel into the consciousness. And same for Donald Glover winning for Atlanta. They tend to do that. They like to take a bit of a chance and get kind of weird, which I appreciate.

Not this year. So, I mean, I feel that both Americans and Gianni Versace ended like three years ago. I can't believe that they're still at awards right now. I had a weird moment of reflection while watching Chuck Lorre hold a Golden Globe as if it was his firstborn son. He was weirdly emotional. Chuck Lorre might be one of the three or five most successful people in Hollywood in the last 20 years. He's, of course, the creator of The Big Bang Theory, a number of other sitcoms that have run CBS for many years. He's been working on sitcoms for 30 plus years. He has a show on Netflix

called The Kaminsky Method. I've never seen one stitch of it. Have you seen any of it? Absolutely not. Okay, so it's not really for me. I don't hate it. It's just not my thing. I did say I might get into sitcoms in 2019. Okay, well, we'll hold you to that on this podcast. But when Chuck Lorre won this award, and I guess he's just because he hasn't

won a lot of awards because he makes populist television that a lot of people watch but is is not often rewarded um he seemed like he was pretty choked up and it was weird he was like more choked up than Olivia Colman you know really something for the for the weird Netflix show and he almost forgot to thank Netflix which was potentially very awkward because they obviously gave him a lot of money to make this show and then there was a really brilliant moment where he remembered to say Netflix. And then he said Netflix five times on the telecast. And then they did a hard cut to Ted Sarandos in the audience.

And he was just like, yes, yes, say it. That was one other standout moment for me on the show. Any other moments that you liked or hated or you'll remember? It's okay if you say no i know i don't it wasn't like a hugely it was like 45 minutes ago well no i that's i i think we'll just remember bohemian rhapsody and green book i think the awards and kind of the in the nuttiness of the actual winners is what we'll remember that and my guilt about not having seen the wife glenn close i commit to you i will see the wife i will not, I commit to you, I will see the wife.

I will not be apologizing to Glenn Close on this podcast. I'm just going to say that right now. I do not owe her an apology. Okay, let's look ahead. As we mentioned, the Oscar voting starts tonight. It'll commence for how long? A month? A week.

A week. Thank you for correcting me there. And then we'll know what the nominations are on the 22nd. The morning of the 22nd. We'll be here bright and early. I will be at least. Yes, you will be as well? I'll be here, yeah. Okay, that's great. In the meantime, the Oscars has a little bit more work to do. They have to find a host. In the interim between... I feel like I started this really hot and then we mellowed out a bit and now I just gotta go back into to yelling mode

let's crank it up, let's get it up to 78 yeah, turn the volume down on your thing right now so a weird thing happened shortly after we recorded last week's episode Kevin Hart who was promoting his new movie The Upside started to do press, one of those occasions was to appear on Ellen

Ellen DeGeneres' daytime talk show during the course of that conversation new movie, The Upside, started to do press. One of those occasions was to appear on Ellen, Ellen DeGeneres' daytime talk show. During the course of that conversation, Ellen started to pick Kevin Hart's brain about maybe what happened with the whole Oscars hosting gig that was a car crash. Started to pick his brain as generous, actually. All right. How would you describe it? She led him to a conversation. The terms of the conversation were agreed upon ahead of time. And it was very clear that she teed him up to let him share his hurt. Yeah. And so he shared his hurt and he noted the haters and the people that were trying to destroy his reputation. The trolls. How the trolls and how traumatic it was for him to not have that hosting job and how frustrated he was by the entire experience. I would say that I don't understand what Kevin Hart's been doing for the last five weeks.

I think this has been completely mismanaged. You're almost like quivering with excitement right now. Well, no, I think that we have to fast forward to the next part, which is that Ellen then jumps in and says, Ellen says, I called the Academy today. And I said, I want to know what you are thinking about this. And she says, the Academy told me we want him back. We want him back. We're ready.

We're going to do it. So somehow Ellen has agreed to be the go-between between the Academy and Kevin Hart to try to broker a detente in public so that he can go back to being the host of the Oscars. I don't even think that's how this would happen. Now, I have a theory about this, which is not a radical theory, but I think it's just a test balloon. I think a lot of the things the Academy has been doing have been test balloons from the popular Oscar suggestion to a number of changes to the telecast, to Kevin Hart hosting, to Kevin Hart getting the job, to Kevin Hart losing the job, to the possibility of him getting the job back on Ellen. Now, the reaction was obviously quite negative to the way all this was orchestrated, not just towards Kevin Hart, but towards Ellen. A lot of people, particularly a lot of people in the LGBTQ community were offended by this. A lot of African-Americans were offended by this. It was just like a serious unforced error. I thought what Alison Herman wrote on The Ringer was very insightful about how this was essentially like a brokered situation between two very famous

people protecting each other and not about making amends or trying to understand what had happened here or even just having a good Oscar show. I don't think it had anything to do with any of that stuff. It was ego massage and celebrity protection in a major way. And I thought it was just weird and unnecessary. And, you know, Kevin Hart also recently appeared on Variety's playback podcast

and he talked about his frustrations. And I think his performance there was also not strong. I couldn't really understand what it is he was trying to say other than people tried to take things from me, and I'm mad about it. I thought that the host of that show very pointedly asked him, you said you apologized at a certain time. I couldn't find that apology. Can you please tell me what I'm missing? And Kevin Hart did not have an answer that clarified that in any meaningful way. All around, this is a mess. And this whole, everything the Academy has been doing around this stuff has been so messy and so unnecessary. And I'm starting to wonder, is it the leadership? Is it because the award show is having this paroxysm about

its relevance? Like, what do you think is causing all of these crazy bad decisions? Some of it is just plain incompetence. And it's not just one person's incompetence. I mean, the Kevin Hart camp has not handled any of this correctly, because let us recall that if he just apologized, like literally just one apology right at the beginning, he would still have the job. Yes. And instead, he was shirtless on on instagram choosing to pass on an apology which he then issued within 24 hours i mean it's not even that you know there aren't even bad principles at stake here it's just kind of like people not having a plan the academy is also just absolutely

lost um they clearly don't know what the show should be they clearly don't know what their audience is they don't they it's not even that they don't know the answer. They have no vision. And the going through Ellen thing was just a total, you know, again, I don't know why Ellen did this either because it was just kind of a celebrity convention. How dare the plebes, you know, ascend to the castle and try to talk to us. That's what it really came off. And that was as much Ellen as Kevin Hart doing it. But I don't understand why the Academy thought that the best way to handle any of this would be in public, because they've already gotten in trouble for all the things that haven't in public that they were not aware of and had no control over. And they're just flailing about. They can't

make a decision. So it comes on the heels of the previous leaderships, I thought, pretty impressive move towards the future. The addition of a lot of new members of the Academy, I think that the show, while it has obviously been struggling in the ratings, all live events, has been interesting in recent years. It's always an imperfect affair and it never makes anyone happy. That's part of the reason why I think we do a show like this, is to kind of dissect and analyze and try to figure out what went wrong and why did it go wrong. And it's mostly in good fun. The Kevin Hart thing has entered like a new vortex of bad, a new vortex of like, shut it off, turn this away. Just go, go get like Emily Blunt,

John Krasinski now, like fix this, like stop trying to make something that we know nobody wants and isn't going to work happen. That was my immediate reaction to when I saw it on Friday morning. I was like, this is bullshit. Like, there's no way this is ever going to happen. So why are they putting everybody through it again? Can I give you my, I had one like cynical galaxy brain moment of, I did wonder whether at this point they thought their best option was, okay, well, if we have them back, then there will be such a controversy and people will be so curious of what happens that they'll tune in to watch and it'll help us with the ratings. I do not think that anyone in the Academy is thinking on that level enough to even have that plan because of what you said before of everything is just throwing out

test balloons. What if we try this? What if we try that? But I did wonder if for a second they were like, well, we don't have any better ideas. So maybe we should just lean into the controversy. I don't that's not their style. I know. I don't I don't want to politicize this, but it's just low key Trumpian. Like, that's a weird style to just be like, I have a crazy idea and I'm going to say it out loud. Like, that's just not a way to do something like this, which if you take this stuff seriously is the crown jewel of this kind of thing. And you kind of have to protect its dignity, you know, and they're not doing that.

I agree. And it also just frustrates me the extent to which they do not. They seem willing to abandon the people who actually are interested and who do want to watch it. Exactly. There is. I've said this before. There is not going to be 50 million people watching the Oscars again. That's just kind of not how like non-sports live TV events work anymore. What if they nominate Deadpool 2 though?

No, because, like, 14-year-olds don't know how to turn on a television. That's true. They're literally never going to give you the ratings. So, no, they are not going to have 50 million. They might have 20 million people who actually care. And there is a way to use 20 million invested viewers and people who are not just invested

in actually in this telecast, but also in the Academy and the whole thing. There's plenty of ways to make money off of 20 million people if you guys would just think about it for two seconds. But instead, they are, you know, offending or just abandoning the people who actually do care in the hopes of getting, what, like three million more phantom viewers it doesn't make sense strategically and it's frustrating as people who actually do watch and pay attention to this because like if it's listen if it's going to be the kevin hart debacle every year and bohemian rhapsody wanting for best picture like fine i we won't do a podcast

anymore good luck yeah that's i don't want that to happen. I don't either. Yeah. It's been dispiriting and it's frustrating to cover because, you know, I wrote a column early last week about how the show really needs a host and how the last time they did the show without a host, it's one of the worst shows ever. And it opened with this incredibly bad musical number. It had that famous, infamous Rob Lowe and Snow White moment. They do need somebody to keep the train on the tracks. Now, whether that's four or five people in that guide mode or whatever, but just don't insult people's intelligence. That's kind of what the whole thing has felt like for the last few months. Hate to leave this spirited episode on such a down note.

Hopefully, we'll be back with a more excited and enthusiastic and sincere conversation next week where we'll be talking about a whole raft of craft awards. So we mentioned the PGA nominations came out, the DGA shortly, the WGA shortly, the BAFTA nominations come out soon, the Critics' Choice Awards. I know that's your favorite award show. You've been watching it religiously for a hundred years. Any other last minute observations before we go off into the good night? We haven't talked about Roma once this entire podcast. Well, so we literally didn't even say the words Roma. And I know you were trying to end a podcast because it's late, but we just didn't say

the words Roma. We didn't talk about Alfonso Cuaron, who won best director at the Golden Globes. He did win. We just literally haven't talked about it. I think that no matter what, Roma was going to be bulletproof tonight. I think that because it was not in that major conversation, if Cooper won Best Director or Spike Lee won Best Director, it would have been fine.

It wouldn't have been a big deal. I don't think Best Director necessarily portends the auto winner at the Oscars. I think Roma's fine. That's kind of how I feel. I think A Star is Born took a real body blow tonight. A real like Creed II shot to the chops while he's on one knee.

You know, like not a good situation roma is it's fine i like a lot of people watched it everybody thinks quaron's a genius he gave a very nice speech right yeah he times two it was very nice yeah you know my only concern is that these awards were to a large extent a total rejection of all critical thought. And like both actual, the critics' bodies and the critics' awards. One exception, I would say. Regina King, to me, was the one person

who I was like, this is a small film. Every critic loved this. She's won a lot of the critics' awards. And she won. And I was happy about that. That was, but that is, you're right. For the most part, that is the rare exception. And especially in the best picture,

both comedy and drama. Yes. those are films that are not even close on the critics list and i mean that's what the golden globes does and again i started this by mocking their journalistic credentials and i would like to end it by mocking their journalistic credentials but But it does, if the conversation, which is moving away from the critics' picks, then I think that's a problem for Roma as well as Star is Born. I think you're right. We'll know more next week when the Kraft nominations come in. Amanda, thank you for this emotional and lightly distraught podcast. Hopefully I'll see you doing this next week. Okay.

Thank you, Sean.