The Big Picture - It’s Time for ‘Mary Poppins Returns’ Fever | Exit Survey (Ep. 110)

Episode Date: December 19, 2018

Sean Fennessey, Amanda Dobbins, and Juliet Litman discuss ‘Mary Poppins Returns,’ the sequel to the classic Disney film, starring Emily Blunt and Lin-Manuel Miranda. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by Vudu. Vudu is a streaming service you can watch on all your favorite devices, stream over 6,000 titles for free, or choose from over 150,000 titles to rent or buy in up to 4K quality. From the latest Hollywood blockbusters to independent cinema. Head on over to Vudu.com backslash big picture to sign up and start watching today. That's V-U-D-U backslash big picture to sign up and start watching today. That's VUDU.com slash big picture. I'm Sean Fennessy, editor-in-chief of The Ringer, and this is The Big Picture,

a conversation show about Disney classics. I'm joined by Amanda Dobbins. Amanda, hi. Sean, hello. And I'm joined by Juliet Dobbins. Amanda, hi. Sean, hello. And I'm joined by Juliette Lim. And Juliette, what's up? Hi. We're going to talk about Mary Poppins Returns, which is the sequel, I suppose, to a Disney classic. And the Disney classic stars Julie Andrews, stars Dick Van Dyke.

This new version stars Emily Blunt, Lin-Manuel Miranda. It's directed by Rob Marshall. I will say at the very top, I'm not a Mary Poppins person. That doesn't mean I dislike Mary Poppins, but I think there is something about what you identify with as a fan of movies, especially Disney movies as a kid. Amanda, I think that you are a Mary Poppins person. Is that right? Yes. I mean, I think Mary Poppins basically lives inside me, which is just because I watched that movie at such a young age. I believe, the family legend goes that I was like three years old and I got the flu or something and watched it a hundred times. And I rewatched it recently and I did really have that

kind of primal reaction of it's like hazy memories, things that you remember about your childhood is also kind of what I feel connected to Mary Poppins so I have absolutely no rational perspective on this franchise or this movie it's all emotions there this whole podcast is meant to be all emotions so that'll be a good thing Juliet I know for a fact that you are a hardcore Lin-Manuel Miranda person but I don't know if you have any relationship to Mary Poppins. As a child, I called it Mary Poppiners. And I love Julie Andrews. I love Mary Poppins.

It's a delightful, fun movie. I've always found Mary Poppins to be like two separate movies. I think the first half and the second half are like just so different. Yes. How so? And the second half is like serious and is like the Dick Van Dyke show. And the first half is a lot more playful, almost like Julie Andrews being like the antagonist in her own movie. And it's like so much more light and musical-esque, like what you associate with that time period.

And they almost like don't go together. And I actually, I guess we'll get into how he felt about the new one, but I think that in some ways, like, that's the biggest difference between the original and this now, like, sequel is

that kind of, like, divide was not necessarily present for, and maybe you consider that good or bad in the second one. That's an interesting thing to bring up because I think

one of the few criticisms that this movie has received in the early round of reviews is just that it's the same movie. You know, that they essentially have remade the original Mary Poppins. Which is, you're saying that's not the case. I don't agree with that at all. Being not a Poppinsite, I don't know what the word is here for that.

A Poppinser? A Poppinshead? A Popper. Being not a Popper. A Poppiner. I actually couldn't tell. You you know i didn't go back and re-watch the original amanda did it feel duplicative in any way it is very clearly using the mary poppins blueprint yes and it's um musical act for musical act beat for beat they are really doing the same template of even the meryl streep character is a direct sequel to the original. There's a cousin in the original and he gets stuck on the ceiling because he's laughing.

And instead, in this one, the ceiling turns upside down for Meryl Streep. So they're both borrowing the rhythm of the movie and the outline and also the themes. So it is really close. I would agree. I think Juliet makes a great point that the original is two movies, one about a nanny and one about the banking system. And this is also a movie about a nanny and a banking system, but it does interweave those a bit more than the original. Juliet, what do you think about the kind of socialist construct of some of these movies?

I love it. It's fascinating, right? Yeah, I think one of my favorite parts of the original is the suffrage song and the mom in number one. What's her name, Amanda? I can't remember. The original Mrs. Banks? Yeah. Oh, I think it's Winifred. I think you're right.

Yeah. I think you're right. Yeah. I think you're right. Yeah. I love that portion of the movie. It also, it so firmly ties it to a certain time period, which I think is really effective for young kids. And that's probably one of the reasons why it stuck with me. But I think it's really fascinating and also rare in a Disney movie at this point to have like a political message um along with it but yeah i i think it's like actually effective and particularly since i guess the original mary poppins and this one is

kind of like ahead of like the the new trend of integrating humans and animation which i kind of like don't really even understand the new ways that that's done but have they changed the the way that they do it no but i and like like i'm confused about what the lion king is going to be with like people and animals oh i see like and also with like beauty and the beast right and so let's talk about that distinction so i you know the most successful movies in the world right now are superhero movies the second most successful movies in the world are disney movies where they just remake movies they've already made with human beings

and digital animation. Now, that's not what this is. This is kind of different from the Beauty and the Beast, Cinderella, you know, the Lion King template. This is an actual sequel. It basically uses the same visual format, the same kind of costumes. I mean, we'll talk hopefully a bit about Emily Blunt, but I mean, the performance she's giving is very much in sync with the previous performance that Julie Andrews gave, but it isn't exactly in that same formula. I think it's probably seeking the same sized audience, but I've always been a little bit confounded by the mega success of like the live action Beauty and the Beast. Like the original Beauty and the Beast is fantastic. So I don't quite get why those movies work. This isn't totally the same thing though, right?

No, because it has both like the traditional Disney cartoon and then just normal people interacting in a human drama. I don't know how much CGI there is in this movie. It doesn't seem like a lot. Yeah, which is I think distinct from the live action movies. Can I say though, just going back to not understanding why things are totally popular, and I say this as someone who loved Mary Poppins, but the original Mary Poppins is so weird. It is so weird, and I, watching as an adult, didn't totally, with a new perspective, it's like much weirder than I remembered, and that second half is really dark and is just like a critique of capitalism.

And it's very funny to me that it became the giant runaway success that it is, especially in the 60s when it's quite political for a Disney film in the 60s. And it does have that animation sequence in the middle, which I think is delightful. But also, again, I was three. It's a pretty unusual movie that they haven't really replicated until now. I totally agree. I've been reading up on the original a bit. It's one of the most celebrated movies by the Oscars ever. It's one of the only Disney movies that has been nominated for Best Picture. Julie Andrews won Best Actress. Obviously, Mary Poppins Returns, I think, aspires to the same kind of

plaudits, but Mary Poppins Returns, much like the original Mary Poppins, is pretty weird. Like, the character of Mary Poppins is really strange, and Juliet, I like how you said she's sort of the antagonist in her own story. Amanda, did you say that? That was Juliet. Juliet, I thought that that was very insightful because there is

something kind of needling about the character of Mary Poppins. Like she is, you can see that she is a caretaker and she has good intentions, but like she's kind of rude and dismissive of the children. And that whole idea as the person that you're supposed to be in love with as the titular character is kind of strange, isn't it? Totally. But I think what's so magical about her, and I think Emily Blunt just sensational and i hope we can talk about charisma as a as a force in movies i agree entirely i think that what's really amazing about both julie andrews and emily blunt's mary poppins is that they have both a very clear code of living that also allows for them to have be playful and like experience joy and be silly, but it has its place.

And I think that Amanda, I bet that's one of the reasons why it really speaks to you, knowing you as an adult. And perhaps as a child, this was always inside of you. It's true, but it's like, is it chicken or egg?

Did I learn that from Mary Poppins or did she speak to me? I honestly couldn't tell you. I think that's a really unique character and also really hard to replicate. And I will say, like, a lot of Disney movies are not true to their source material, at least the ones that, like, in my lifetime. And I don't I didn't, like, study the original written material, but that's probably because of how the character was originally envisioned in the books and not because it was, like, created for Hollywood. I think that's true, though. Juliet,, when I went back and read about the original

after seeing this movie, and one thing I learned is that the author of the books, P.L. Travers, she was very upset about the movie because she thought that Mary Poppins was too cheerful, which I'm just kind of like, I don't, cheerful is not what I would use to describe Julie Andrews' performances. And I'm like, what is happening in these books to these children? And do we need to call child services? That part is really interesting. There's an entire movie about this.

It's called Saving Mr. Banks. Disney made it five years ago. Tom Hanks plays Walt Disney. This is also notably the last Disney movie that Walt Disney made before he died. And it is so different from so many Disney movies. Now, obviously, Disney has cheered up P.L. Travers' character a little bit, and Mary Poppins is still a little needling, but there's just like a lot of depth and oddity to this that you don't find in a lot of those 50s and 40s and 30s Disney's movies. Today's episode, Amanda, is brought to you by Vudodoo voodoo is a streaming service you can watch on all your favorite devices including smart tvs roku chromecast iphone android phone

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starting at just $2 at Vudu.com backslash disc D-I-S-C. Download them to your devices to watch anytime, anywhere, even without an internet connection. Amanda, I have been using Vudu recently. I just rented the movie Bad Reputation, which is a documentary about Joan Jett that I've been looking forward to. I didn't know how much I liked Joan Jett's songs, but in watching the movie, I was like, God damn, Joan Jett Jett just got some bangers Have you been watching anything on Voodoo? I'm going to use it this week

I'm traveling later in the week And I still haven't seen A Quiet Place I was too much of a wuss at the beginning But I'm ready, everyone loves it I'm emotionally prepared And I'm excited to watch it while I'm traveling And then I think I'm also going to get Home Alone Because it's a Christmas movie

No matter what Bill Simmons says You know I agree So now head on over to voodoo.com backslash big picture to sign up and start watching today. That's V-U-D-U dot com slash B-I-G-P-I-C-T-U-R-E big picture. Let's pivot a little bit more clearly to the movie we're talking about right now, Returns. I want to know what you guys think about the music in this movie, because the original's music is iconic, and the songs in that movie are true earworms. When we walked into the studio, Amanda was singing Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious at the top of her lungs.

Even though the sound of it is something quite atrocious. Okay, that'll be the last of the singing. It's an all-time banger. I mean, it's just a beautiful, important song. If you say it loud enough, you'll always sound precocious. We've totally reached our limit on songing in this episode. But what did you guys make of the the songs in this new one Juliet I was

disappointed I don't think there's like a breakout earworm I think I was just like why didn't they let Lin-Manuel Miranda write a song may I say something

I did not know that he didn't write the songs until the opening credits for this movie came up and I was like what yeah I think they probably collaborated

on his like spoke, his like quasi rap when they're in the animated world that he does. O'Leary loves the edge of night. Though dim to him, the world looks bright. He's got the gift of second sight. To trip a little like fantastic. O'Leary's job is to light the way. And that was probably tailored to his strengths

or what some consider his strengths and some consider to be an abomination of rap music. But I was like, yeah, I mean, that's I think there's I mean, there's so much to say about him because of the run he's on for the last three and a half years. But I was really disappointed. There's no like breakout song that I remember. And I I think to me, the most memorable thing from all the music was just all the allusions to Let's Go Fly, Kite. And I was like, can't they just sing that song instead? Like, was it too expensive? Like, why are they not singing it?

I don't know. I presume they own the rights to that song. I mean, let's just talk about a couple of the big songs. For when its light has hit the ground, there's lots of treasures to be found underneath the lovely London sky. Obviously, Underneath the Lovely London Sky is the opening number. That's the way we're introduced to the movie and Lin-Manuel Miranda's character, which is more or less just Dick Van Dyke's character. Yes. Yeah.

And who sings a similar song to open Mary Poppins. Right. It really is a one for one. But this is a bit cheerier and schmaltzier than the Dick Van Dyke song. I think Dick Van Dyke is just like criminally underrated in the American imagination. I fucking love Dick Van Dyke. I like the

Dick Van Dyke show. What was his detective show again? Columbo or something? No, it was Diagnosis Murder. In which he's a doctor who solves crimes great for his first show i agree dick van dyke is amazing um he's amazing and like and i think i love and like cherish and live by the the work and the words of lyndon well miranda but being a performer is not his greatest strength and i think that dick van dyke and you know he played so many

characters in the original one is such a better performer that i thought was a tough note to start on because it it immediately reminded me that this is not dick van dyke do you guys know off the top of your head how old dick van dyke is like 92 now he is 93 years old i think people are well aware that he's in this movie and performs in this movie and dances in this movie at 93 years old. I still am curious if that's the only CGI that they used when he dances on top of the desk. I thought it was him because it is a slower. He's not doing it the way he did in the original movie, but he kind of still has the moves enough that you're reminded of it.

I got very emotional at that part. That was one of many times when I teared up. Yeah. I would say, I don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves, but the sort of last moments of the movie, Dick Van Dyke and then later Angela Lansbury, were the two times where I was like, I kind of wish this was the movie. And not just that I wish there were older actors or something like that, but there was something in the feeling of those older performers that felt absent. And I am sincerely a very big Emily Blunt fan, and I think we should talk about her next. And I like Lin-Manuel Miranda, and I loved Hamilton, and I agree with you, Julia. I

think he's an incredibly important person in the culture, even if performing is maybe not the most important thing that he does. But Blunt is here. This is a big deal. She's like a big-time movie star now. She's probably going to be nominated for an Oscar for this movie. She's singing, she's dancing, she's Julie Andrews-ing. Amanda, did she live up to your expectations? Absolutely. She actually exceeded them because I was like, I think I also belong to the church of Julie Andrews. And I was like, this is insanity to try to take on a Julie Andrews role. You're just setting yourself up for failure. And I thought to echote, she was sensational. I was really, she is clearly paying tribute to the Andrews performance,

but she's also adding a little of her own charisma, as Juliette said, and a slyness, and it's very winning. And, you know, there was, again, I'm sorry to be like the overgrown three-year-old here, but there was kind of a 30-minute window in there, which is the cartoon segment into the lullaby scene, which is a direct copy of the original. And she's singing the lullaby to the kids, and she does not have Julie Andrews' voice. She has not pretended to, so I don't think she would be insulted. But there is something about her embodiment of the character that was very overwhelming to me, and I just started crying because it felt like Mary Poppins came back to me as an adult. It was literally the premise of this movie, where Mary Poppins comes back to Michael and Jane as adults, was actually happening to me in real time. And that was extraordinary.

I've never felt like that and it was i think that really is just because of her performance she just really hit the tone and also i'm a sentimental schmuck i guess juliet did you do you agree with that yeah um i thought she was just really amazing like in some ways i i think that like any any flaws of the movies or faults with faults within the movie is covered by her charisma and her charm. And just the fact that she is so magnetic on stage. And she just is so much fun to watch and be in the scene with. And she just makes up for a lot of the movie's shortcomings.

I agree. Her songs are interesting. Nothing's really left or lost without a trace nothing's gone forever only out of place you know i think you pointed out that she doesn't quite have julie andrews voice which is okay i don't i don't think that's like a huge demerit it doesn't hold the movie back but i found that with the exception of the royal dalton Music Hall, which I thought was kind of a fun mid-sequence, that animated sequence that we're talking about that kind of bifurcates the movie. Can you imagine that? And a cover is not the book. And a couple of these songs are just not memorable and long. The sequences take a long time and it almost like slows the movie down

and in a movie like this it should be the opposite you know you should be building towards this crescendo of the musical performance juliet you're a huge fan of musicals but why do you think that there was something kind of like not quite the gears were getting stuck somehow i think part of it is being true to the original movie probably made them there was like a certain rhythm for lack of a better term that they had to stick to that i think made it a little bit more difficult and like when you're trying to go like one for one in terms of like tenor and um like how interacts with the story it's a little bit of a um it just sort of boxes you in a little bit which is one of the reasons why they should have let lynn write the music

because he's so good at that it's almost like he's a puzzle master when it comes to writing music like a few years ago before um hamilton it was i think the year after in the heights had its big run so it was like 2008 or 2009 neil patrick harris was hosting the tony's and um at the very end lyn Lin had been backstage the whole time and his job was to write one of his musical raps to sum up the night and then to perform it at the very end and he did it and it was awesome

and so he's really really talented at working within constraints of songwriting and lyric writing and so it just seemed like such a shame to not use him. Also I think Mark Mark Shaman is the one who wrote a lot of the music. And this is very much his style, actually. I think that these songs that are sort of like so obviously musical songs,

but that also speaks to the fact they're fairly derivative and not necessarily so memorable. Yeah, and I mean, Mark Shaman is an extremely experienced composer who's written for literally dozens of movies and television shows and has worked on Broadway and, you know, is very talented. But there's something kind of pro forma about a little bit of this, except for I think, you know, you alluded to Trip a Little Light Fantastic before, which is kind of Lin-Manuel Miranda's big showpiece around the fountain with all of the other. What is his job? Is he like a lantern snuffer? Yes. No, he's the opposite. He lights lamps.

Oh, he's a lantern lighter. O'Leary. O'Leary? Is that what they're called? Are they not responsible for putting the lamps out also? I don't know. I don't really know the job parameters. That's sort of the glass half full, glass half empty question of the Mary Poppins universe.

Do you light the lamps or do you snuff them out? I did like Trip a Little Light Fantastic. I thought that was like kind of a fun song, but it did just kind of feel like a Hamilton song. Not nearly as good. Come on, man. I just said it felt a little like a Hamilton song. I really liked when they performed together in the bowl.

I don't either. Oh, in the cartoon sequence. Oh, yeah. The cover's not the book. Yes. A cover's not the book. Yeah, a cover's not the book. Yeah, they were going for it, and it was like they were dancing and doing the— It was like a show, a really big show, more so than any of the originals, I guess, except for the chimney sweeps.

My thing about the songs was that this felt like the most modern Disney-fied part of the movie. They all had a moral for kids, you know? Like, imagine it. Imagination is important. And, you know, don't judge people and be friends. And the originals do too, but they are slightly more nuanced or just stranger. And this felt like,

the music is when I knew this was a movie for kids. And that's kind of, it's the most, that's the most targeted at at six-year-olds. Yeah, I honestly thought of you, Amanda, and Juliet, less so you, but just in terms of the ongoing conversation about what is a kid's movie. And obviously, a lot of animated movies aspire to a kind of intellectual height that sometimes they reach them and sometimes they don't. Obviously, some Disney movies are like this.

I think if you see Wreck-It Ralph 2, for example, there's just a lot of ideas about the thing that we do every day on the internet that are pretty serious. This felt like what you're describing, which is like, this actually is for like nine year olds. And you can be 30 or 50 or 70 and enjoy it and appreciate it. But there are many, many times when it felt specifically designed to make little children happy. And that's a great thing. I have no criticism of that. It just was in stark contrast to the way that most kids' movies are now, which is larded with things to entertain adults. This, I felt like had a little bit less than that. And I feel it most acutely in kind of the supporting characters of the movie.

Usually those supporting characters, I think, are meant to be, like, entertaining for adults. But, like, Colin Firth in this movie does not, didn't work. Like, I didn't get it. He plays the villain. It was a shame. I didn't, nothing against Colin Firth. I just don't under, like, the motivation of that character is weird. It's confusing why he's in this movie.

The motivation was for him to make money. It's like, the problem is that they tried to do the critique of the banking system but it's disney so it's toothless and it's not actually anti-capitalism at all yeah it just but you i just couldn't understand why what how could he have made more money based on what they anyway why why was he trying to trick the main characters in the movie as opposed to just being like i'm an evil banker yeah i have no idea okay um i think part of that john yeah did you get back to the political point i think the american imagination relationship to banking has in the last 10 to 15 years and probably the people who are partially behind this movie has drastically changed yes i mean that gets back to the socio-political point about the first one versus this one is that, like, you know, this would be a whole tangent, like a whole other podcast.

But, like, to talk about banking and bankers and, like, and who owned homes and, like, foreclosures is actually really loaded now. It is. Actually, the first movie didn't shy away from that. And also by choosing to make it a depression era or, you know, like a suffrage post. Or I guess it's like right before the crash, right? Yeah. At least in America. It's a different, like that's a different point of view, like a different perspective. And that's one that I think to me was really lacking in this movie is that it kind of like don't go for it quite as much. And they're also softer on the, Emily Mortimer is clearly supposed to be the mom figure.

Yeah. And she is doing kind of social justice and community organizing instead of women's suffrage. But she doesn't have like the big song to rally. There's not any energy to what she's doing. It's like a very dutiful, okay, yes, like workers are important. Yeah, I feel like we're in the time of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and like the big short, you know, like America knows what this stuff is. I don't think that this is necessarily like the perfect place for it. I'm not necessarily advocating for that.

But because of the legacy of the original movie, you'd think that this would have a little bit more follow through on some of those ideas. And, you know, when you're building an evil character in a movie, that's, that is such a huge part of writing a script and getting people to care about the story. So if you fail at that level, even if you have an actor as good as Colin Firth, it really does hurt the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. What did you guys think of the Meryl Streep moment? It felt like a different movie as well. Yeah. Like, so it took me out of the moment a little bit, but I also was excited to see her. And for the Rob Marshall heads out there, there's a lot of synergy with Into the Woods. I mean, yeah, it's like in some ways I respect that Meryl has now just built a late stage career of just showing up in movies and singing whenever she feels like it for however long she feels like it.

And then she's out. And good for her. May we all find something that we love and the ability to do it on our own terms. That, to me, felt when it was like the most rote copying of the original. And I agree that it felt like a different movie. And I don't—I was supposed to learn perspective from that? Is that what I was supposed to take away as a child? That you, you know, you look at things a different way

and then you can do whatever you want to do in life. I don't really think the messaging was super clear there. Yeah, I would agree. I didn't understand it. It's funny, when I headed into a screening, I was under the impression that there was sort of a chance that Meryl Streep would be up for an Oscar nomination for a performance in this movie. And then I saw the movie and I was like, well, we can forget about that.

Not because she's bad, but just because it's a frivolous thing. It's totally wedged into the middle of the movie. As you say, it's making an attempt to replicate a moment in the previous film. I just didn't really get that. I did like Angela Lansbury quite a bit. Why was she in this movie well i don't know i assumed that they wrote that for julie andrews and she declined to do it oh don't you think because it's at the very end and it's like oh mary poppins was with us the whole time great take and i think that julie andrews made the right call to not do it

that would have been very sticky and also you know what julie andrews doesn't small for her yeah no she's she's the original mary poppins and that's it i have some bad news for you guys there is a movie uh coming out called aquaman and julie andrews provides voice work in the movie aquaman so she's not better than this and i she the the voice work that she's doing is of a gigantic sea creature it's not that she's better than this. It's just that... She probably got paid more. She probably got paid more.

That's definitely possible. You know, I actually do think that this movie does a decent job of respecting the original Mary Poppins and also Julie Andrews as the original Mary Poppins. And to kind of put her in as a cutesy old person cameo at the end undermines that. So I think it's not... But did Dick Van Dyke undermine it? No, but he's not Mary Poppins. Even though he really carries the original movie as much as she does and is possibly on screen for longer than she is in the original,

there is something about this particular character and its place in people like Maya's imagination and also its relationship to Julie Andrews. Like, Julie Andrews, I hope you stay with us forever. But when you are no longer with us, like Mary Poppins will be in the first sentence of her obituary. It's different when something is so closely associated with you and launched your career than Dick Van Dyke is just kind of like, oh, it's nice to see you guys again. So I'm okay with it. And I was glad to see Angela Lansbury as well. That's nice. I guess the connection would be like bed knobs and broomsticks. And if you're a fan of 60s Disney movies, somehow she represents a connection to a previous era. I don't know. Do you guys have a relationship to those other

Disney movies or does Mary Poppins kind of stand alone? I don't really. I know I've seen them, but for me, it's Mary Poppins. And then I graduated to Sound of Music. So it's really just Julie Andrews core. Have you still never seen the Sound of Music? I've never seen the Sound of Music. I can't believe it.

Also very political. Yes. That's true. How are you allowed to do this podcast? I don't understand. I don't know. Someone needs to explain that to me. We're all just kind of working our way through the canon every day.

Have you guys seen Thoroughly Modern Millie? No. I have, yes. It's so offensive. It's unbelievable that it was restaged within the last 20 years. I don't recall it being offensive, but that makes sense. Oh, my God. That's kind of the problem with this entire enterprise, right?

I certainly don't think Mary Poppins is offensive, but all of these things that we are working tirelessly to bring back into the lives of our children are not, we're not made for these times. And it's so interesting that Mary Poppins is this rare case of being an old movie that is more progressive than its modern day counterpart. I don't, I totally don't know what to do with that. What else do you guys want to say about this? Any other observations about movie i want to say that i hate ben wishaw and i just don't think he should be an actor whoa wow no warning i just despise his work oh my goodness i can't think of a single time i've enjoyed watching him on screen lordy of any kind so ben wishaw plays michael banks he's more or less the third lead of the movie. He's so lame.

He is such a value negative. Ugh. I cannot stand him. I can't say I agree with this take at all. Yeah, I was pretty moved by it.

When he's in the attic singing about his dead wife and he does the he did a thing I really like which is acknowledging that singing is not really his forte

and so he did like a talk sing throughout the song. And I found did like a talk sing throughout the songs. And I found that to be moving. It's also was again, more in line with the original Mr. Banks who talk sings through his satirical song. That's the thing that's missing from this movie.

There's no satire at all. And there is a fair amount, even the suffragette song is making fun of a little bit of this very rich woman who is out there crusading but also you know can barely make it to the meetings on time and it's like her house is a mess and there is there's no satire it's only sentiment in in this movie and and part of that is ben wishaw he's really just playing two emotions only i was moved by them and i also like him in other movies but i can see julie i can see juliet's point in this movie only i i don't endorse despising him uh across the board i have no idea if he's a nice

human or not have you seen skyfall yeah you didn't like him as i can barely remember it okay it's an eyebrow singeing take okay i hate ben wishaw that's just some wild stuff but that's why we're doing Yeah. You didn't like him as... I can barely remember it. Okay. It's an eyebrow-singing take. Okay. I hate Ben Whishaw. That's just some wild stuff. But that's why we're doing this podcast. You know, Ben Whishaw also was in just the Better Kids movie this year, and that movie is called Paddington 2.

Paddington 2. I mean, Paddington 2 is... I'm sure if you're a listener of the Ringer Podcast Network, you've heard Andy extol its virtues many a time. It's not a perfect movie by any means, but it has... Find a dad that didn't cry at Paddington 2. I know.

The Daddington Hive is very real. But that is a truly inventive movie in a way that I think Mary Poppins Returns is not. And Ben Whishaw brings an incredible lifelike quality

to this teddy bear. Guys, what else? I think some of the shortcomings are also just very in line with rob marshall's work which is like very competent and usually dutiful to like in the case of chicago and into the and into the woods and then now mary poppins like they're they are faithful to the original work but they don't really have a lot of invention to them. But that's a safe director for a movie like this, right? Can I throw in my take? It's not as hot as Juliet's. Sure. There's a difference between a stage production and a movie musical. There is.

There's a difference between the theater and movies, and a lot of these felt like really stagey jazz hand, like one frame set piece performances, as opposed to kind of using the medium to move around a bit. And it felt a little stale to me. Rob Marshall, of course, was a choreographer. And dance is sort of his, that's his metier. I don't think that dramatic filmmaking necessarily always is. If you're not familiar with him, he made Chicago. He made Pirates of the Caribbean on, he made Chicago. He made Pirates

of the Caribbean on Stranger Tides. He made Memoirs of a Geisha. You guys mentioned he made Into the Woods. I agree. He's a competent hand. He's not somebody who I feel like has a signature style. His craziest and most fascinating movie is called Nine, which is a musical adaptation of Federico Fellini's Eight and a Half. That is a movie that doesn't work, but has like a lot of guts and it's kind of going for it a lot. I would not say that that's what Mary Poppins Returns is. It's much safer in its approach to the story.

You know, out of curiosity, Amanda, I'm sure we'll talk about this more on the Oscar show going forward, but would you guys be surprised if this had like 13 Oscar nominations? I think technically there's like a lot to appreciate. Like I thought it like looked good. I thought the animation was cool. I think technically there's a lot to appreciate. I thought it looked good. I thought the animation was cool.

I thought that there was... Emily Blunt is just... I thought was incredible. I think she deserves a lot of awards. I mean, obviously I haven't seen as many movies as you guys, but I was just blown away. And I was like, I'd like to spend more time with Emily Blunt based on this. So, I don't know. That's like a pretty big endorsement.

I think it just seems like there's a lot of ways to appreciate this without a kind of like circle what's good about it that would lend itself to the Oscars. 13 seems like a lot, though. That was my thought as well. 13 is too many. I think technical categories, sure.

They're even there. I feel like there have been a lot of other technical achievements this year. Yeah, I mean, you'll probably get costumes and maybe production design and song. Yeah, though I don't know that song really, I think it probably will get nominated. I'm not sure if it's the most deserving. I would be thrilled if Emily Blunt got nominated.

I'm counting on that. Yeah, and I think it's deserving, even if this movie is kind of microwaved Mary Poppins, she's really transcendent. And as Juliette said, I think it really marks her as like, that is someone who I want to see every performance from now. This is really her time, I guess. Our takeaways are obvious. If you really love Emily Blunt or Mary Poppins, you should definitely see this movie. If not, maybe don't. Amanda and Juliet julia thank you guys for doing this thank you