The Big Picture - Jennifer Lawrence’s Movie Star Playbook and ‘No Hard Feelings’

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

Jennifer Lawrence is back in the center of a movie—this time a studio comedy. Sean and Amanda discuss the successes and shortcomings of ‘No Hard Feelings’ and the unique place this occupies in Lawrence’s movie career. Then, they outline the future playbook for J-Law’s continued development as a movie star. Host: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, media consumers. I'm Brian Curtis. And I'm David Shoemaker. We're the hosts of The Ringer's Press Box podcast. Twice a week, we have a free-flowing conversation where two old, old friends talk about media and sports and a little politics. Plus interviews with guests like John Krakauer

and Jamel Hill. Funny stuff like the overworked Twitter joke of the week. Join us every Monday and Friday on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I think that's right. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points.

Visit superstore.ca to get started. I'm Amanda Dobbins. I'm Sean Fennessy. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the rule of J-Law. Sean wrote this intro, but I'm doing it. It's very fun to be reading from a script. Anyway, today we're discussing the new sex comedy, No Hard Feelings, Jennifer Lawrence and her fascinating career. I am in the captainship because Sean is slightly under the weather. I'm down horrendous right now. I'm sorry about my voice. I'm just living the life of a parent of a toddler, which is to say I'm just full of germs. And so I appreciate you taking the lead here today. I also am in this chair because Sean expressed the desire to be more of a chaos agent and to bring you more from the guy who brought you no blimps and no grails. No grails. Check out the rewatchables if you don't know what I'm talking about. Also,

we will be revisiting those takes, Sean, next week when we talk about Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny. But today we are talking about Jennifer Lawrence and her new comedy, which you and I saw together. We did. In a room with other people, which is how studio comedies used to be seen. Sean, what did you think? Oh, I had so much fun. This is really fun being you. Do you like, do you think I'm doing like a good impersonation? I think you're doing a bang up

job, but it could go awry at any moment. So let's not get ahead of ourselves. I don't think No Hard Feelings is a great movie, but it's a movie that I had fun watching. And the exact thing you said is how I felt, which is that even at a stuffy press screening, people were laughing out loud and it makes a movie like that just feel so much better. It's a fairly straightforward I felt, which is that even at a stuffy press screening, people were laughing out loud. And it makes a movie like that just feel so much better. It's a fairly straightforward movie that is in some ways modern and in some ways a throwback. And I really enjoyed it. What do you think?

I mean, I was going to say throwback and then you said it. So now I feel like I'm just repeating. This is hard being in your chair. Thank you. Yeah, it felt like a little bit of a nod to the comedies that you and I grew up going to see. Or maybe seeing, honestly, on VHS. It has a little bit of John Hughes to it and a little bit of just kind of 90s broad comedy to it.

And seeing it with other people was fun i like was like remember when we did this um and i do remember it though i wonder whether anyone bobby's age does which you know we can come back to but yeah it was it was fun i laughed but we laughed right yeah i laughed yeah for sure i think there's like a little bit of farrelly brothers in there there's a little bit of um you know a little bit of american pie you know like a little bit of Farrelly Brothers in there. There's a little bit of, you know, a little bit of American Pie, you know, like a little bit of like coming of age stuff going on in reverse. A little bit of rom-com energy, honestly, in this movie too, which I was maybe not expecting. And, you know, the reason I recommend it is because I feel like this is, for the first

time in a long time, the correct use of Jennifer Lawrence's talents. You know, I really, I had a complicated relationship with her and her career. And I've always thought she was very funny and very goofy. And for once, she was given a chance or she gave herself a chance,

she's a producer on this movie, to be her funny and goofy self. Yeah, we're going to talk more about her career and what we think she should do which i'm sure she and her agents will appreciate um but you're right to point out that she doesn't normally do a movie like this nor do they really make studio comedies like this anymore and it it was fun to see her like loosen up a little bit and not kind of have like serious somber you know I have 18 traumas and I'm trying to win an Oscar vibe though she might still have

one too many her character um and we can talk a little bit about that but um yeah they just they we say this so often but they don't make studio comedies like this with movie stars anymore so much so that even though I think that this is a good choice for her I'm wondering like who the audience is for it and how it's going to be received not because it's bad or not because people don't want this but it's like we haven't been trained to accept Jennifer Lawrence this way we haven't been trained to go to the movies like this in this way we haven't like been trained to laugh in this way. This movie is written and directed by Gene Stapinski,

who also made jury duty, which has been sort of like a summer phenomenon, the television show jury duty is very different from this. So even the style of comedy feels and jury duty, jury duty, jury duty is fascinating. I would love to talk more about that um but i've seen it we can talk about it now if you like well no i mean what i really want to talk about is like how they did it in ethics and like fake documentary filmmaking

like not that i think they did anything wrong but i'm like how did they find ronald how do you set this whole it's just like fascinating as a filmmaker filmmaking, whatever. The comedy in this one is a lot broader. And when it's going for American Pie, I guess a little raunchier, even though I wouldn't really describe it as raunchy, but it's trying to embrace everyone? And that is not often a strategy for success in the way that we consume culture these days. Yeah, I mean, we saw this a little bit with Bros last fall, which is a movie that similarly, I think, wants to be a kind of freewheeling,

raunchy sex comedy, but also wants to be a kind of modern, progressive rendition of our culture today. And it's hard to do that. A movie like this is almost never told from the perspective of a character like Maddie, Jennifer Lawrence's character. It's always told from the character that Andrew Barth Feldman plays, the sort of young boy who's coming of age, who needs to have a sexual awakening before he can go out into the world. And so it is trying to have its cake and eat it too. I think for the most part, it accomplishes that until we get to kind of like a rickety third act,

which I think is kind of a problem with almost all movies like this. So we tend to forget that their flaws are kind of obviated by whether their gags in the middle work or not. I thought they worked in this movie pretty well. I think that the studio comedy thing obviously we've talked about quite a bit over the years has moved away from the center because there's just so much accessible at home like jury duty yeah that someone like gene subnitsky could put his talents into a series like that um or avid elementary or you know any any prestige comedy show that you can find that is kind of serving the same audiences. But that doesn't change the fact that there's something very special about watching a movie like this with a big crowd and seeing somebody like Jennifer Lawrence,

I don't know, just like realize a slightly different gear that just maybe we're just nostalgic. I mean, I thought of a bunch of different kinds of actors when I was watching her in this movie. And I will say, I did think it was pretty raunchy by the standards of contemporary comedy. Well, it's raunchy for the first third. Yeah. But I would say only in reference form. Like a lot of third base and boner jokes. Right.

She'd fit right in here. Right. And I guess you're right that there is one scene that I suppose we shouldn't spoil that is surprising. I would say worth the price of admission is how I would describe this one scene. So if you're listening and you're wondering, you'll know when this scene arrives what I'm referring to. And I guess, I mean, it's really splitting hairs of whether we would describe that as like raunchy. I'll tell you what, I would. Okay.

I would times a million. Yeah, I guess so. It's, I mean, it's funny. It is definitely funny and memorable. But... Look at you, you're holding your heart. You really are just me now.

You've just fully me'd. You know. You're talking about the box office of this just me now. You've just fully me'd. You know. You're talking about the box office of this movie. How well is it going to do concern trolling? Give me an assignment and I fucking do it, Sean. Okay? I can barely speak right now. No, I know.

I'm just. It's. There is not a lot of. There's not actual. There aren't any sex acts in this movie. Is there like a single sex act in this movie? There like a single sex there is there is one sort of yes there is one right yes sort of but but but it is a sort of right exactly so everything else is like kind of by illusion and is more in line with people trying to learn about sex or learn about

their feelings and there are a lot of feelings in. That's kind of to your point about it being like slightly more modern. And also for me, it feeling slightly less raunchy because everyone's motivations are well established. And then they have to come to terms with like who they are and, you know, why they're doing something and does it align with their personal values, which is all great, by the way. That's great advice for life and for your sex life if you're a young person in this situation. So I guess it doesn't feel as mean-spirited as sometimes I feel like American Pie was. Yeah, I think it's interesting to think about the way that Lawrence's character is framed because she's a 32 year old woman living in Montauk and she's single and she was raised in Montauk by a single mother.

They talk a bit about the kind of complexity and I guess like the vague trauma of her upbringing and why her childhood home is so important to her. And because of that, we know that she has fear of commitment we know that she is someone who kind of like loves him and leaves him you know like she she is playing a character that many male characters have played in the past a very john ham-esque character and so because of that there is like an inherent raunchiness it's just not the kind we're used to seeing it's just not a six foot three guy dumping a girl on the side of the road. It's a young woman who I guess theoretically is empowered, but also is kind of searching for something to fill her up. Pardon the pun. It's more like she's looking for something

to kind of like validate her emotional state. Not necessarily a boyfriend, not necessarily a career, but something. And so the movie is this, it's kind of an odd duck because obviously this kid comes into her life because she pursues this opportunity to sleep with him and get paid by his parents in the form of an automobile, which is something she needs. Because she's an Uber driver because that's how she's going to make up the extra money to pay off her back taxes so that she can keep her home in Montauk, which you may know from a place where a lot of rich people spend the summer these days. Correct. And I may know from being not that rich of a community when I was growing up that has gotten increasingly rich as the days have gone by. You did, as this movie started, you did turn to me and you were like, yes, this is a Long Island movie.

I had no idea. I was shocked. I mean, it is truly like a Montauk movie. It is set entirely in Montauk. And obviously that community has changed a lot over the years. So like, I get it a little bit as like a gentrification drama

and a movie about people being displaced. But that's not really what's going on with Maddie's character. There's something much deeper going on. Whether or not like the emotional or dramatic aspects of the movie work for you are pretty important to whether or not you stay with the movie,

I think, in the third act because it takes some twists and turns. I would say I was pretty mixed on the way that they concluded the movie, but I really enjoyed the setup and then the middle part execution so much because I found Lawrence and Feldman so winning together.

And he really, in particular, like I had never seen him before and he really won me over that I had a really fun time. As we concluded our screening, you showed me a text message from a friend of the podcast who had also seen the screening in New York and just texted the kid and no hard feelings. He's great. And he really is. His name is Andrew Barth Feldman. who is like did the target I guess of Jennifer Lawrence's and his parents' scheme and he has to be clueless but awkward but then reveal at some point that his character knows some things that Jennifer Lawrence's character doesn't so that they can have some sort of chemistry and connection, even if it's not physical. They both walk the line of having to make it not weird at all times, despite the fact that the setup is that a 30 something woman is trying to sleep with a 19 year old in exchange for a car. And so, you know, the movie it brought to mind most for me is Easy A, which is a similar setup

of it's a female protagonist who is like set up in some sort of sexual hijinks and you have to and learns a lot about herself and sex and relationships and other people along the way. But you have to work very hard to make it not feel icky. I think this movie succeeds. Jennifer Lawrence is a good part of that. But Andrew Barth Feldman like really brings like a presence and a comedic timing and i guess a worldliness that makes everything feel like a lot less less gross i guess um because it could go the thing about this movie is that it's very charming i i thought it was very charming and i never felt like oh this is i don't i don't like this i'm uncomfortable. And when you describe the setup,

it could, you know? Yeah, I think that's true for some of the movies we look back on fondly from the 90s. And I've certainly been victim of kind of attempting to course correct

the wedding crashers of the world and be like, these guys are sex criminals or whatever. Yeah, right. Because, you know, you have to go along with the premises of the movies to enjoy

them. And I've thought about this a lot in the aftermath of seeing this movie and then even seeing some reviews of this movie. And I don't know what its Rotten Tomatoes score is, probably in the 50s right now. Because the Rotten Tomatoes score of all studio comedies seem to be in the 50s unless they're wildly progressive and book smart, basically. And that's been true since time immemorial. I've talked about it many times about how Roger Ebert was like so often wrong on studio comedies because there is a sense of this like juvenilia that film critics can't really wrap their head around or embrace because a lot of these movies are made for teenagers. This movie in many ways is made for teenagers.

It's made for 16 year olds, 22 year olds, you know, and some older folks like us, no disrespect to you as an older folk. There's stuff for us here. Cause there's, there's a pair of friends who are about to have a child. There's some parental stuff going on that people have to think about in the movie, but for movies made for young people,

like you kind of need to check some of your juvenilia discussed at the door and just accept there's going to be like a goofiness and a grossness. If there wasn't a weird sexual aspect in the setup, it wouldn't be a movie. I mean, that's, it's a sex comedy. Like these movies kind of necessitate that.

I, again, I say this in like a self abnegating way. Cause I, I too have a tendency to be like looking back, do we think happy Gilmore was a good guy? You know, like it's like,

I don't, that's a dumb thing to say. And I, I've seen that in some of these reviews where I'm like, this is kind of, kind of foolish for Jennifer Lawrence to be spending her time on this. And I'm like, is it though?

Cause it's actually a lot of fun. And listen, I'm the one who brought it up, but it's certainly is always the case when it's a, the main character is a woman. And, you know, I thought about easy aZA a lot during this,

which is a movie that I saw, I guess I would have been 16. No, no, I was 26. Wishful thinking. Wow. Anyway,

I was younger when it came out and we did it for rewatchables a couple of years ago. And I went back and I was like, huh, okay. So you're walking a line here um and then they're uh you know pretty woman is always on my mind um but in this context for a number of reasons and that's one where people like had a lot of thoughts about its portrayal of like sex work and that arrangement and can you really find this

romantic and all these sorts of things and i and I think it's a little bit about our reactions to it are sometimes based in okay well you're asking me to believe this of a male character or a female character which you know that's on me but more I guess that's on all of us and that's also on the history of Hollywood because you don't see it that often Amanda the future is female that's great that great. That's what I've been told. Like, on the flip side, this movie definitely... I know you think it's a movie for teenagers, but this is a movie about, like, a 30-something-year-old woman.

I don't know. I wish we had Grace on this podcast, your sister Grace, because I'm like, are teenagers interested in what's going on with a 30-something-year-old woman and her back taxes? I think that there's always a slightly aspirational quality to raunchy comedies and movie theaters. Kingpin is about a 30-something failing bowling professional that also is a movie made for 14-year-olds.

You can have more adult stories. I think that aspirational thing is baked into a lot of these movies. A lot of Bill Murray movies are like this, where Bill Murray has been 47 for 300 years. And so you're always interested in what goofy adventures he's getting into, even though he seems eminently relatable. You may be right that I may be overdrafting on the age that it's aimed at, but there are some sight gags and jokes. And also, there's a really funny moment in the movie where Jennifer Lawrence's character follows Feldman's character into a high school party. And the way that her character is received by

high school students, and these high school students were just very different from the kinds of kids that she went to high school with in terms of the way that they see the world, in terms of the way that they use social media i was gonna say uh project some of their experiences uh that is is the kind of setup that could go really awry but to me i found really funny i wonder if a 19 year old would think it was as funny as i did you think it's funny because like imagine going to imagine going to a high school party right now, horror, and then everybody's on TikTok simultaneously. And you're on TikTok 45 times. I actually would have liked to see the day after.

I'm glad that the movie didn't go full social media, but that's a funny extra, is everything that shows up on TikTok. That's the genius of a generation bridging movie too, right? Like having a 19 year old character and a 32 year old character gives you the opportunity to do a little bit of generation confusion that I think makes the movie accessible for both generations.

You know, like otherwise, if it's a movie only about 18 year olds, I felt this way actually with Gene Stabnitsky's last movie, Good Boys, where that was a really raunchy, I think R-rated comedy about 10-year-olds. And I sat in the movie theater, it premiered at South by Southwest. And I was like, I know this is funny because I know that Stubnitsky is a really funny writer, but maybe I'm past this in my life. Maybe I'm past seeing a movie like this because there was no adult understanding of it. You know what I mean? It was purely a movie. It felt like a movie

for Bill Simmons' son to me. And turns out it was. That was one of his favorite movies in years. And I think my sense of humor has gotten a little less juvenile as I've gotten older. And I wonder if some of that is because there's just fewer of these movies. So I've fallen out of practice because I'm on the record of loving movies like this, like loving 80s and 90s comedies, loving Adam Sandler, loving Jim Carrey, loving Bill Murray, loving John Candy, like loving all of those figures so much that if you don't get them for like five or seven years. And I made a note here in the document about the last one of these that made $100 million.

It's been like six years since an original comedy, studio comedy, made $100 million. It was Girls Trip. Speaking of raunchy movies. Right. Though you brought up Good Boys, which I really, it's amazing how much I'm channeling you right now. Good Boys was a hit. It was $83 million domestic, $100 million, $111 worldwide. But it found the Bills' sons of the world right and i remember it

being like a sensation because it identified that audience whatever that specific audience was and people went nuts for it and i am you know i have this feeling every time that i like something or something is made for me or in this case like for you and me which is like okay but I'm a pretty specific demo and are like are we gonna is it gonna bridge enough people you know and then there was also the as bros and many other studio comedies and you know many other movies at this point have taught us like people don't go to the theaters in the same capacity that they did even five years ago unless it's like for super mario brothers so i don't know like how do you think that people will go see this um some will but not enough probably i think one of the reasons

why the movie got made obviously jennifer lawrence is a huge reason the movie got made but i think that the success of good boys is one of the reasons why the movie got made, obviously Jennifer Lawrence is a huge reason the movie got made, but I think that the success of Good Boys is one of the reasons why. Subnitsky has shown that he is a person who is capable of creating something in an old school format, but in a new school way that audiences will respond to. It worries me just like hearing from

people in my life, my family, who are like, I'll just wait till VOD or streaming because I feel like I can because it's a movie that isn't a spectacle and i'm not going to get lost in the ip storytelling which i think is is that what is that what your family tells you when they're like yes but i'm i'm going to see the flash uh because i need to get lost in the ip storytelling that's phrased in exactly that way um and i frankly i'm not sure if any of my family members will see the flash except for my little sister but i think it's much harder to get people to pay 68 on a date night to go see this movie with parking and concessions and all the stuff that

we've talked about before i think that's actually kind of wrong because then when you look back on what you will spend 68 on where it's like you get takeout and then you order a dumb book off Amazon and then all of a sudden you didn't even have a nice night out. You just sat in your house and looked at your phone for three hours instead of going to the movie theater and having some laughs. This is so great. I really like financial planner Sean. That's a fantastic point that I never considered. I would love to make this an ongoing segment here on the show. No, you're right. I think about the balance of what is one fun night worth relative to how many boxes of Cheez-Its do you really need to buy from Whole Foods? And then when you start adding those up,

actually not Whole Foods because you don't sell Cheez-Its at Whole Foods. Yeah, I was going to say they don't have the Cheez-Its. Let's just say Target for now. Remember when I ran into you at Whole Foods unplanned and your daughter was so confused? She was like, what are you doing in this place? There were so many questions that she had but could not verbalize. The first one was, where the fuck is Knox? That was the number one question

rattling around in her head. She was like, is this woman allowed to be in public without her child? Because if so, we have a huge issue here. The second was, why are you in here? This is a story that I own. Alice believes she owns everything in the world right now. No Alice does it is the most common phrase

uttered in my house. And number three was, she was like, you didn't tell me this was going to happen. Why didn't you warn me? She's not ready for surprises like this. I relate to that. I get it. I felt a little bad.

Yeah, no, she's... No, it's a good point. You should really make one of those videos. You should be the new Nicole Kidman, or maybe you can do it for Regal or something where you're like, here you are and you spent all this money, but here's all the things you didn't waste your money on. Financial security feels good in a place like this. There you go. It's all right there for us. Well, I'll tell you what, I'll make it even more personal.

When you sat down next to me before this movie started, you were having a tough day. I'm not sure if it was on the level of my post-flash meltdown, but it was edging into that territory of personal disruption. It was late in the day and it was like, it was a Tuesday that was actually a Monday. And I often find that those Tuesdays that are Monday, people just don't show up

to the work of life. You know what I mean? It's just, no one was doing their jobs being who they needed to be in the world. And I was frustrated with that. Well, after the movie was over,

you had a spring in your step. I did. It lifted your feelings. That's true. I had a great time. That's the advocacy for the film. That's the advocacy for this becoming, somehow finding a way to bring this style of movie

going and movie making back. Because it's the same idea as the Super Mario Brothers movie. I don't mean it's an adaptation of a video game. I mean, it's a lighthearted, fun experience. And that's a part of going to the movies too. It's not just watching Thanos get his head chopped off. You know what I mean?

Like there's more to it than that. I mean, from your lips to all your little fanboys ears, you know? Do you think I have fanboys? I think that you are one of a group of fanboys oh i'm i'm a member of a fanboy organization yeah who tends to make just honestly quite hurtful well spiritually you are i mean okay so you're definitely a member of the letterbox fanboy community. We're cinephiles. Okay. It's literally like that's Latin for fanboy. And like basically literally. And then you're also...

Have I mentioned that I'm sick and that I don't need to be insulted right now? You're voting with the fanboy community that makes a lot of the box office decisions these days. Voting in the general election of the United States? Voting with your dollars, voting with your financial plans. So I don't know. You got to talk to your people. Maybe you actually should just reactivate the TikTok and start doing your, like, you know, see you at the movies.

And here's also how much you've saved. This is a great content plan for you. I don't really think I'm going to get invested in TikTok. I resent the implication. I think that this is an interesting collision of like movies that we both like, but that don't necessarily have a home. Like it has a lot of... I know, but that's always...

A lot of meet cute rom-com strands and a lot of raunchy 90s comedy strands. That's what stresses me out. It's like when you and I agree on something and are like, hey, we did it. Then like nine times out of 10, we're SOL, Top Gun Maverick, the only exception. So not for long. I've seen something very special. Oh, yeah. You know what?

We don't you don't need to rub it in people's faces, though. You did get to tweet about it. So would you like to share? I mean, everybody knows. Yeah. Mission Impossible, Dead Reckoning Part 1. Let's fucking go. What if you were like, it was Oppenheimer, guys. I understand the power of science and clouds now. I'm going the other way on Oppenheimer. This is my most anticipated movie of the year now that I've seen Mission Impossible. So I'm going the other way. Okay. What?

Yeah. I'm fully in on Oppenheimer. Okay. No one believes you, but you'm fully in on Oppenheimer. Okay. No one believes you, but you're sick. So we'll cut you slack. Would you like to talk about Jennifer Lawrence? Would you like to issue a public apology to Jennifer Lawrence? No, I won't be doing any such thing. She's, of course, one of the most successful and lauded movie actors of the last 15 years, probably one of the only genuine, genuine, genuine post-1990

movie stars that we have. There's a lot of talk about Emma Stone, Margot Robbie, Robert Pattinson, Timothee Chalamet, Daniel Kaluuya. We've praised these people. We've done the analysis. We've done our own personal idiosyncratic rankings. She is a famous person. She's an Academy Award winning actor. She's been the lead of two separate huge franchises, particularly the Hunger Games. But then also she was a huge part of the X-Men storytelling for a long time. Yeah, she blew the whole time, but she was well, not the whole time, but most of the time, whenever she had powers. That's true. true she well she was a shapeshifter do you want to talk about shapeshifting yeah go right ahead well i you would have to ask me

questions i'm not really going to do an exegesis on it and nevertheless she made three movies with david o russell um she made a famed or infamous movie with darren aronofsky all of these movies, all of this stuff necessitated a kind of gritty, hard-bitten, wise beyond her years quality. And I think that she's been just miscast, like misread, misunderstood. I never understood it. Silver Linings Playbook is a movie that I don't really like very much, but I was in the minority when that came out. And that was the movie that I think signaled to everybody that this is one of our great rising stars in Hollywood. And I just thought she was woefully miscast. I thought she was 10 years too young for that part.

I didn't really understand her, like the sense of trauma that that character needed to have to make her coherent alongside Bradley Cooper. I've talked about this before. It's not really like a personal attack on her. I just don't, I never really got it because when you would see her in interviews, you would see the young woman that we see in this movie, who's really funny, who's

really smart-alecky, who's really quick, who is kind of like a little, a little gross, you know, a little like, like just a little juvenile in her sense of humor in a way that I found appealing and funny. And I was like, so you see this girl who I have described as a bumpkin in the past, and then she's asked to play Katniss Everdeen. And I'm like, I just don't buy it. I never bought it. And it was so interesting to me to watch her get more and more and more successful and gain more and more acclaim and to just be kind of on the outside looking in. And then I see this movie and I'm like, oh, Maddie, she's Goldie Hawn. She's Susan Sarandon. She's Kathleen Turner. That's the kind of movies I wish she was in. And

I know this is a function of what kind of movies are made now and why she pursued these opportunities. But I hope this movie is a success so we get to see more of her like this because I really like her in this mode. I mean, it's interesting that she got famous and became that sort of vaunted movie star very quickly on the strength of silver linings playbook. I mean, winter's bone was sort of her debut onto the scene and she was nominated for an Oscar,

but you know, even there, the, the red dress that she wore to the Oscars when she was nominated became like very famous. Um, it, it was,

it was a look and a moment. Um, and then she wins like a year later yeah two years later for two years later for silver linings playbook and but like that's kind of it and then everything else having to do with her fame is based on her outside the movie persona and basically that she seems like a great hang. Um, and an interesting thing about, I, her rise to fame is really twinned in my mind with the very cruel internet

turn on Anne Hathaway. Um, because Anne Hathaway also wins best supporting actress the same year that Jennifer Lawrence wins best supporting actress, a best actress. So it's like, wins best supporting actress, best actress. So it's like you've got the quote unquote cool girl, which is like a gone girl reference that is like also contemporaneous. But, you know, Jennifer Lawrence is like someone who is like Amy Schumer's friends with and they're writing a movie together. And doesn't she seem like fun

and cool? And she actually does. I don't mean to take that away from her but she was like very mediagenic and it was compared with like the Oscar campaign style of Anne Hathaway who um is one of our great actors and very talented but you know I I don't think people on the internet were as like jazzed about it I'm not defending people on the internet. But so she became Jennifer Lawrence became like famous and a movie star for her, her personality as much as like the work that she did, which is often how movie stars become movie stars. I'm not like denigrating her and, but you know, people had an association with her and it is really weird that she then spent a decade doing a lot of not that good movies that don't have anything to do with that persona. Well, I think on paper, a lot of the choices make sense. Obviously, aligning yourself with X-Men movies in circa 2012, that's a smart idea in terms of raising your profile as an international star.

Making Mother with Darren Aronofsky. It's like a fun try. It's a good... It was an interesting movie, whether you like it or dislike it. Obviously, Aronofsky is very kind of hit and miss and audacious, and they were in a relationship at the time, so there's a lot of factors there.

You know, Passengers is probably the biggest fiasco she's been a part of. But if you look back at that movie, it was Morton Tilden's first movie after the imitation game which was academy award nominated and it's it was opposite chris pratt coming off of the huge success of the jurassic park reboot so that made a lot of sense on paper obviously the hunger games she booked very early in her career and that is that is what is most responsible for making her the star well and that one made sense to me i mean i

think some of it is that that's just like an adaptation of a ya series that was not really meant for for you sean fennessey as the target audience yeah i mean i don't dislike those movies honestly i i think that some a few of them are very well made um and you know me i'm like i'm i'm willing to get into an ip story if it's even about young women. That doesn't matter. I'm, I'm interested in that. It's more just like the,

her part again, like her in those movies. I just didn't get it. I just didn't get it. I mean, I understand it's, you know, it's not,

there's, there is not much personality there for someone who seems so vivacious in real life. I don't know. That one makes sense to me. The thing that we're kind of skating around is like her decade long association with David O. Russell. And she obviously won the Oscar for Silver Linings Playbook. That was a successful movie. I think she's pretty charming in it. And but that's neither here nor there. The next few movies

like increasingly don't work, including American Hustustle just don't get that movie just absolutely don't understand any part of it and then Joy where she plays um I guess it's a QVC or Home Shopping Network mop maven I have some of the Joy hangers actually and they're wonderful so um congratulations to Joy but the movie itself feels just like retread. maybe 24 and she's playing a housewife living in Peconic New York who comes up with this invention and you know

I can see why David O. Russell became fascinated by her as his leading lady and you can see I mean even the way he films her

in American Hustle you know she's so beautiful and so radiant but she's not right for those parts and those movies

increasingly don't work. I think a lot of people have a lot, like, enjoy American Hustle because it's so safety off. Like, every actor is just like, fuck it, it's the acting Olympics. Yeah.

Which there is something fun about that. I just think as a movie, it just doesn't hang together at all. I also think that she's at a disadvantage in that one because she is so much younger than everyone else. And in that film, and so you much younger than everyone else and in that film and so you can when like amy adams and christian bale and bradley cooper are all and

jeremy renner and robert de niro going lights out right and she i mean she is trying it but she's just operating in a different lane and you really feel just how miscast she is and how you're just like you're like 27 or whatever like what what's going on yeah so i mean she has on the one hand navigated her career wonderfully and on the other hand i've always been a little bit confused by it and i've just kind of been waiting for her to make a move like a more conventional comedy because she seemed to have such a natural comic charisma whenever you see her on the red carpet and she got her start like working in sitcoms on the bill engvall show and i? She like knows the beats

and rhythms of this kind of thing. And I agree. When I read the Amy Schumer stuff, I was like, that actually makes sense. It certainly makes sense that they'd be friends given what it seems like

her personality is. And it seems like they should do something or could do something together. And to me, that was immediately, I was like, oh, so that's Bette Midler

and Goldie Hawn in my head. It was so clear to see what the connection point was between them. And so it took a really long time to get to this moment. And it's unusual that she, I mean, maybe she just got sick

of making franchise movies. I'm not quite sure. You could see even in, well, in Dark Phoenix, which is one of the fiascos of the 21st century, like she's super checked out. Her character gets killed fairly early in the movie and it almost felt like she asked for that so she could get off set as quickly as possible and then red sparrow

is her attempt to like oh yeah get more serious you know to have her born franchise and i don't you know i i don't hate red sparrow again it's like i appreciate the effort Red Sparrow is just is is based on a apparently very dirty spy novel that my husband and Chris Ryan both love very much but it's like I mean they are and when Jennifer Lawrence decided to do Red Sparrow they were like yo Jennifer Lawrence is gonna do that and it's toned down a little, but she still is. There's more nudity than have been in her other films up to that point. And it's trying to be dark. And it doesn't quite work.

I don't hate it. Jeremy Irons is having so much fun in it that you're like not trying to, you can't be that mad. That's another classic. Saw that movie by myself at like 11 a.m. at the Arclight. And I was like, this is, my life has taken me to some interesting places.

There's an amazing Charlotte Rampling performance in that movie. Oh, yeah. She's so good in that. I don't know. Maybe that movie is not bad. It's not bad. It's not bad. And maybe the problem is in the source material, which is apparently depraved.

I have not read it. Sean, we're supposed to make a playbook. You've written this in the outline that we're supposed to make a playbook. I do feel like the last three movies that she's done are sort of instructive in terms of like what we should do. She was obviously in Don't Look Up, which was very successful and also uh the annual movie we argue about on the internet uh the week after christmas and before new year's uh so i don't know if yeah let me let me i'm sitting in bed last night yeah i'm thinking about how i'm gonna be sick tomorrow not happy about it i'm looking at jennifer law Lawrence's filmography as one does. And I start thinking

about Don't Look Up. I had a like a quiver of like is Don't Look Up actually very good. Now I did not rewatch the movie and I've only seen the film once. And I would say we were

mixed on it when we when we reviewed it together. And yes and then we opted out of the discourse. We opted out of the discourse which I feel wonderful about.

I was on blank check shortly after we discussed that movie last year. And we were talking about Don't Look Up in the context of Dr. Strangelove. And now it's almost like an inversion of Dr. Strangelove because the last 10 minutes of Don't Look Up are incredibly sincere. And I kind of liked that. And I really liked what Leo was doing in that movie. And there were parts of that movie that I really liked what Leo was doing in that movie. And there were parts of that movie that I thought were very funny, especially Cate Blanchett upon reflection. Yes.

I did not get the Jennifer Lawrence thing at all in that movie. 100%. That's the problem. I agree with you. Also, it's really funny how much you love just like a sincere, open-hearted ending to a cynical film that like wants to take on the issues of the world. And then it's like, but we can all do it together. That's the only context in which you accept those feelings.

It's that's honestly so true. Thank you for seeing me so clearly. And when we were having that conversation earlier this week about Soderbergh and Spike Lee and filmmakers who are interested in the now Adam McKay is really interested in the now he's one of the only directors who's like, this is happening now. Let's talk about it. So that's what I was going to say is that I agree with you I don't think the Jennifer Lawrence piece of Don't Look Up works I was really mixed on it I don't love the ending as much as you do but like Jennifer Lawrence with Adam McKay was I think a good idea agree you know, they were supposed to work on Elizabeth Holmes film together.

And then the dropout with Amanda Seyfried came out. And I think they like very smartly were like, you know what? It's been done. Like even Jennifer Lawrence has been quoted as saying like that already exists. So that was great. I don't need to add to it. But I feel like they could find something together that works. And also, Adam McKay is really one of the only directors with any comedy experience or success still working.

Even though he's sort of turned away from pure comedy. But she should be making comedies is no hard feeling like teaches us and i don't know like maybe they could figure something out that's one of my ideas i i i fully agree i would love that i don't know if there are a ton of other filmmakers who necessarily fit the bill like i see that the next adam and k, which has a really funny premise. I'll read you the premise. It's called Average Height, Average Build. A serial murderer hires a lobbyist to change the law

so that he can commit murder more readily. The murderer attempts to stop a retired police officer from following his trail because he won't give up on the killings. This movie is going to star Robert Pattinson, Robert Downey Jr., and Amy Adams. If we just put Jennifer Lawrence

and Amy Adams' slot there, it sounds appealing. You know I'm open to that in most situations. The next movie that she did before No Hard Feelings was Causeway, which is a movie that you and I talked a little bit about on this podcast. It was directed by Lila Nugabower and also co-starred Brian Tyree Henry. And it was nominated for an Oscar. It was nominated for an Oscar. And it's the opposite of literally like everything that we've said, basically, in the last 45 minutes. It's another, you know, it's a small, quiet, reserved i think jennifer lawrence is very good in

it and she has a real connection with brian tyree henry which is like you know maybe another good and easy lesson at least in theory which is just like work with good actors um and and you can find something but i like that every once in a while she tries something with a director, you know, who's not Steven Spielberg. Something new, something smaller, something like different. It's good to have experiments in the mix, even if they don't always land. I thought this one did. So I'm not opposed to it, especially if she's like committed to being a full-on movie star and never doing tv like you know you gotta you gotta try some things but yeah i completely agree i mean

i think that like if you use the goldie hawn as the template yeah you know goldie hawn made the sugarland express and shampoo and you know she made movies that were funny but also quite serious and weighty and could could shift like not every movie from her was private benjamin you know, she made movies that were funny, but also quite serious and weighty and could could shift. Like not every movie from her was Private Benjamin. You know what I mean? Like there was there was like an accessibility, I think, to her comic persona that made it surprising when she made a dramatic shift. noted that perhaps the most successful run of dramatic acting that she did was basically winter's bone like crazy and the beaver in that like 2010 2011 era and in part because those were like really grounded stripped down stories and she was capable of that it was kind of as like

the stakes started getting higher i started buying her less in a lot of these stories and as like the energy got more antic, I found her to be not as well suited. But you know, I know that many disagree with me about that. Or also as like this setups and like the ideas of the movies become more fantastical or more arthouse. I mean, I know you really like Mother and I appreciated the tabloid coverage that Mother gave us in terms of Jennifer Lawrence and Darren Aronofsky's short-lived romance. But that movie is so over the top and almost meta and trying to bring a lot into what it's doing. And she is a very down to earth performer, you know,

that there was like, I understand it was supposed to be like an interesting contrast, but it's just, it's just weird. I think she's better when it's like a real person based in, she can do smaller circumstances, but in a grounded way, it's,

it's kind of what I think. What I liked most about the movie was that it was a, a master filmmaker with an incredibly chaotic presence just letting loose, and that the movie was intentionally kind of jabbing the audience in the stomach with a stick, which is a kind of movie that I love that I know most people do not like. I thought it was an interesting kind of meta commentary on her cast as um as the younger wife of an older actor which is what she is often cast as and that older actor and what he his character represented in the story of the creation of human life through the christian judaeo-christian ethic was like there was something very very

knowing about what they were up to there they were like you know you think it's weird that she's married to christian bale in a movie or what about this you know like to there. They were like, you know, you think it's weird that she's married to Christian Bale in a movie? Or what about this? You know, like there was like this attempt to poke fun at what her screen persona had become. And also as like a woman dating a filmmaker. And is that like dating God? And if you date God, how do you perform for God?

Like all of it. But I mean, those readings are legitimate towards the movie. And I found that entertaining. I'm kind of neither here nor there with her performance. It seemed like a very hard film to make. And there was something frantic about the way that her performance works, which is appropriate.

But I wasn't like, this movie lives and dies on her performance. If you put Natalie Portman in that part, it probably works just as well. So it's a little hard to say,, this is just, this is pure Lawrence in her finest essence. Whereas in no hard feelings, I was like, who else can do this part in Hollywood? Is there, can you think of another actor who you'd recast in there?

Margot Robbie could maybe do it. She's so like, obviously hot. No, it's true. I mean, respectfully. So is Jennifer Lawrence in this movie and she looks amazing.

And it's part of the point of the movie and she's filmed and costumed in a way to to have that like not necessarily be a joke but it's like it's part of the humor of the setup but I mean Jennifer Lawrence is like incredibly hot and she is I'm not trying I'm I don't want to be misunderstood that I'm not saying that but there's like uh no I know what you mean there's there's this is convenient because of a film that's coming out in like a month but Margot Robbie does have like a like Barbie like almost like created elsewhere quality to her I know what you're saying but you asked me to name someone else who could do it and I think that's like maybe the only person who could do it. My comp, and this person could not do it because she's aged out of this particular type of role

and that's okay. It happens to all of us. But because of Pretty Woman, I thought a lot about Julia Roberts. Yeah. And that's sort of, that like incredibly beautiful, like fun with a little bit of edge to her like a little bit of

skepticism like just like a good sparring partner and like a little bit of updated screwball energy so on this is so predictable for me but i really feel that jennifer lawrence could use like an aaron brockovich style performance from from one Steven Soderbergh and I think she would be great in a Soderbergh movie it's also like if Soderbergh had directed Joy I mean that doesn't fix some of the the age problems but and also why would Steven Soderbergh want to direct Joy that's why he's Steven Soderbergh but something But something in that mold, but with a director who's really good at movie stars, seems to me like it could work for Jennifer Lawrence. I'm very open to that idea. Okay.

I'm still trying to think of an under 35 actress who could possibly have played the No Hard Feelings part. I mean, like Emma Stone has sort of done it in a different way with EZA and it would have a different vibe to it you know that's sort of because again this this role does in a lot of ways hinge on someone's physical appearance so like we're not trying to be like gross people here it's just no it's part of the setup she's very attractive like Emma Stone's beauty is like of a different quality so it would have like a different interpretation i mean she's also kind of done it twice because super bad is different but sort of the same and she's the object of you know high school boy affection exactly what if i don't know uh what if we put uh

adelex archopolis in the part i think that would be a different energy for sure. You want to move it to France also? That would be awesome. It does kind of feel like a French film. It feels like a late Eric Romer film, but with more gags, with more sight gags. Did French actually really like a true, obvious sight gag? Like a broad comedy.

Yeah. I mean, this could work like you could do the france version of this where like a 19 year old goes to france and like tries to lose his virginity before going to college and that would be very funny i i couldn't brie larson do this if she actually made movies anymore not just nissan commercials she could like the best version of brie larson like Couldn't she fill in this role? I don't think she's very funny. Yeah, that's the problem

is that you do need to have comedic timing and I don't have evidence of that at this juncture. What about Mia Goth? Different movie? That's a different movie. That's a movie that

Sean would like to see though. Yeah. I mean, imagine 19-year-old me growing up on Long Island. My parents hired Mia Goth to sexually awaken me. That's, that's, that's exciting. Why did my parents do that? My life would have been so different.

I mean, honestly, infinity pool is not so far away in terms of premises from this movie in so many ways. Like for those of you who've seen infinity pool, you know what I mean? Uh, I, I like the Soderbergh idea. Yeah. I'll tell you what I got. i'm not allowed to say anything about challenger so i'm not going to say anything about challengers other than there's a uh there's a trailer out for the film right now which people people are desperate to know what amanda thinks of the trailer i'm pro i feel good about where my money is i don't even remember whether i got in the auction or whether Chris took it away from me. But my money in my heart is on Barbie and Challengers.

Okay. I feel that a Josh O'Connor moment is about to happen. Oh, I thought you were going to say that Zendaya could play this role. Oh, I just think she's a little young. She's young, but she will get to the point where she could. Her sense of humor is different. It's much more sly and much quieter. Right.

Jennifer Lawrence is very open and loud. This is like a pretty slapstick performance in a lot of ways. But you know. She's hanging from a car at a certain point. I'm not sure if I see Zendaya doing that. Well, everybody's going to play the humor a little bit differently. Yeah. But I think that she has the power and she is also funny. She has the comedic timing to do it. She is funny. Same thing. Raised on sitcoms.

That's the other thing. But Josh O'Connor, I was like, who are the under 35 actors? Who would you cast opposite Jennifer Lawrence as a romantic equal who could have an interesting energy? Like, you know, kind of a negging, bantery, fun energy. So I love Josh O'Connor and have since season three of The Crown get on board. And I can't wait for The Challengers. I think that he might be a little too like negative or cool or

i don't know what the word i'm looking for that's the energy i want two people who are equals to go up against each i want miles teller okay i think that he has like the he still has that i don't like buy it energy like he can push back but that there is something a little more like i drink beer and like do karaoke in hawaii with aaron rogers before aaron rogers went full insane i guess though he just went to the taylor swift concert with with aaron rogers he's still are they still yeah Yeah, they're boys. They're homies. They're like true homies. I thought that Shailene Woodley brokered that.

I imagine every Miles and Rodgers hang as just me and CR crushing beers. The exact who is who? Well, well, I'll let the people decide. I think those who despise me will say that I am Aaron Rodgers and I will take that. That's all I can say. Do you feel in touch with your spiritual side? No, not even a little bit. I'm quite certain that when I die, I go into the dirt and it's a wrap. That's how I feel.

I bet more in the here and now, you know, I'm like, what is possible? There are no spirits. Okay. There are no spirits. That's tough. But that means I you can't be... I believe that this is a dead planet occupied by a dead society

run by narcissists, destroyed slowly by the powers and structures that we built. That's how I feel. Here's the thing, is that Jennifer Lawrence could be the third person in the Aaron Rodgers-Miles Teller hang. No problem. Definitely definitely you know what I

mean so there's just there is something that's fair I think it's bro-y about it is Miles Teller smart I think so excuse me Mr. Whiplash like how dare you that's so there's no evidence that that character is smart I love that film by the way, you and Bill doing Whiplash together, just the two of you, is like one of the most beautiful things that's ever happened to me and my burgeoning armchair psychoanalysis career. A student and his teacher?

Yeah. It's really special. Yeah. I don't think he quite got it. Maybe he did get that. That's what we were going for. I honestly couldn't tell you. I think I even tried to allude to it in our conversation.

And I don't know. Just wouldn't take the bait of the psychological drama of that. I have another suggestion. Okay. That's veering. That's different from your Josh O'Connor. Though I love Josh O'Connor and I want nothing. Well, quickly.

Ask for him. So to me, I think Josh O'Connor and maybe Miles Teller is a better fit. You might be right. With someone like Janick Sabravo doing like a modern rom-com, the same way that this is trying to be a modern sex comedy, I think would be exciting. I think that she is due for that kind of a thing. But for your Soderbergh movie, like, is there like a,

is there a shape to it? Like, is it set in a world, you know, is it set in the world of F1 racing? I mean, sure. Is there, who is the heroine of f1 racing i i the aaron brockovich is like the oh okay another figure who like it doesn't have to be real life but like a woman um of a certain age who is down on her luck or the world has not conspired to like help her out and then she's just not gonna she's not gonna take shit anymore and figure this out whether she's like unraveling you know some sort of conspiracy or inventing a mop or like whatever you know what i mean like and and a slightly another throwback movie but i guess that like a throwback, I don't know. What would you call that?

Like an inspiration, not like inspirational movie, but you know what I'm saying? Like almost bio biopic. Yeah. The movie that has some uplift. Yeah. Um,

okay. That's interesting. What, what, what, what else should she do? So she and Bradley Cooper have worked together several times. Um,

and no, I'm out. What if Bradley Cooper have worked together several times. I'm out. And no. I'm out. What if Bradley Cooper directs the movie and Bradley Cooper's in it? And then it's also Jennifer Lawrence. You don't believe in this. You haven't seen my story yet. You don't know.

What's the story? Something about Bradley Cooper being a tortured artist who can't realize his full potential because the forces of life are getting in his way. And then there's also a woman there. It just seems like a theme he's interested in. Seen that movie. I don't know. Stars for my stroke. I know.

That's what I'm saying. That's what he does. When's he going to get over his trauma of not getting famous until he's 34? Apparently never. But if he's going to keep making movies about it, have Jennifer Lawrence play the woman who does get really famous before him, you know, remake A Star Is Born again. Put her in it.

She'd be good. I don't care. I do love a filmmaker with a core theme, as you know. And he really has a core theme. And I thought that we both loved A Star is Born. I thought he was a great director of Lady Gaga in that film. Yep, I agree. And I think that Bradley Cooper and Jennifer Lawrence had an energy that worked, even if their films have not totally been successful. Just throwing it out there. I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued. had an energy that worked even if their films have not totally been successful just throwing

it out there i'm i'm i'm intrigued i'm intrigued what else you got pitch me well i'm i mean you know greta gerwig is the person who i think i know but i know i already said soderbergh so i wasn't going to say greta gerwig too i you know mean, this is the person who... Guess who else is a great director of movie stars? Ben Affleck. I have a list, but I have to bury it here. I'm not sure if I really see Ben and J-Law clicking at this stage of their careers.

But Greta Gerwig, I could really see. I mean, there's... As a kind of Scorsese-De Niro thing, I could see them doing some bang-up work about basically being a woman in America in your 30s and 40s over the next 10 years. Wouldn't you sign up for those two trying to figure something out?

Yeah, absolutely. Though it's, as soon as you said Scorsese and De Niro, I'm like, no, no, no, no. Saoirse Ronan is Greta Gerwig's De Niro. It doesn't feel that way. It really doesn't feel that way. What are you talking about? She's not in Barbie.

Okay, well, you know, sometimes She's not in Barbie. Okay. Well, you know, sometimes you have to like try different things. Also, Margot Robbie is producing Barbie. I'm just like, let's save that role for Saoirse Ronan. So you think Saoirse is coming back to the Gerwig stable? Of course. Don't you think between Little Women and Lady Bird, they have something very special? I hope so.

I like them together a lot. Who's somebody else who would be good for Jennifer Lawrence? It's a tricky one. Here's a question that I was going to ask you. Do you think she has like a mid-career pivot to female action star in her? She could. As like the block, you know, because that's a path that we've seen a lot of people they do their block your blockbuster you write your checks through a more action

it's possible but i'm just asking whether you think that's even you know well of course she's already done it with the hunger games right she's already proven that physically she's she's very credible at doing that kind of thing. And whatever criticism I have of her, it's not about something like that. I just think one of the reasons why I struggle with her in some of those parts is that she strikes me as the kind of person who

when asked an obvious question, responds by saying, adoy! She's like a goofball. She's really kooky and silly. And so you really, if you're taking on

like a modern action franchise and you're asked to play quite seriously, I think that could be challenging. There is a part of me that wants to see her do what is very conventional, but is tried and true,

which is like a Mr. and Mrs. Smith style thing. Yeah. Like I think she could pull that off pretty well. The problem with those movies is they have to be so well written and they so often get stuck in CGI set piece nausea. Right.

I don't want to watch another one that's more interested in the stunts than is in the script. I need the script to be amazing. And the other tricky thing there, I was thinking a bit about Phoebe Waller-Bridge in Dial of Destiny, which you and I saw. And are we allowed to say at this point that she's very good in it?

She's very good in it. Yeah. She's very good in it. But I think she probably wrote a lot of that herself, you know? And so she's like a little, and I, because I was wondering whether Jennifer Lawrence could do something similar, which is like it, you know,

be the quippy action heroine of sorts. But I think the reason that works is because Phoebe Waller-Bridge is also the screenwriter. So you're right. It would have to be the specific situation. I don't know. My issue is if she just makes like

modern rom-coms with josh o'connor and janice abravo like then she's not gonna make any money and then it won't exist anymore maybe she's made enough money i i meant that the movies won't get made yeah i mean no rom-coms or studio comedies are getting made anyway so okay when this movie underperforms and spider-verse reclaims number one okay and we wring our hands about the flash and the french dispatch not the french dispatch asteroid city just just okay and past lives does just okay and then i spin out into a so we just bear again we traded chairs but we didn't trade perspectives and existential outlooks. No, I feel like you definitely grabbed on to some of my energy, but I'm holding that hope for this one.

I think No Hard Feelings can do well. It's going to need to have some legs, but there's not a ton on the horizon in the next couple weeks. That's true. Not until Mission Impossible. I mean, there is Dial of Destiny, but that's a a ton on the horizon in the next couple weeks. That's true. Not until Mission Impossible. I mean, there is Dial of Destiny but that's a different movie going. Speaking to a different audience, right? Yeah.

I like it as an act of counter-programming. As far as what else she should do, I don't know. What I don't want to see is like a prestige project with Guillermo del Toro. You know what I mean? I don't want to get caught up in that. Write down the day and date that you said that because I think that's the only time you've ever

said that sentence in public. I mean, I want to see many prestige projects with Guillermo del Toro, just not starring her. I don't want her in the hands of a filmmaker who doesn't really know what I perceive to be her skills. Obviously, what do I know? But she's a tricky one. Talented actor, unique screen persona, very beautiful, but I think that beauty kind of,

there's some signal to noise confusion around what the talents are. She's a little out of her time. I mean, Julia Roberts and Goldie Hawn being our comparisons. Julia Roberts now does television and Goldie Hahn is living an awesome retired life so yeah i mean i even thought or plays mrs santa claus right she does do that

yeah yeah in netflix films i even thought of um you know like may west and barbara stanwick and you know like these kind of brassy screen sirens and and comic you know comedians who had like you their personalities were so forceful and they were still you know sexy and still like the object of affection in a film it's not really something that you see as much i think some of that is obviously because like sexual identity in in modern america is so radically different than it was 100 years ago with the movies but she she, I don't know, she has a unique energy that I hope continues to get tapped into well. No hard feelings. Pretty good.

Pretty good. We had a great time. I love your financial advice, Sean. It's think about where else the money could go and what kind of return you're going to get. Should we pivot this pod exclusively to money management? I mean, we could do a little segment. Why not? We got to bring in as many listeners as possible.

Let me ask you, did you look at the new Academy Rules thing? Oh, I forgot about that. Sorry. No, that's okay. It's not super important. I'm just curious for your opinion i did i did so they they expanded the theatrical run of seven days consecutive or non-consecutive in 10 of the 50 top u.s markets that's a requirement for a film

to be eligible for academy awards now okay what do you think of that like is it is it steven spielberg's criticisms four years later coming to pass about streamers not putting their films out i suppose so it's one of those things where it's like maybe the idea behind it is well intentioned or even right in that you want these distributors to make the movies available and put them in theaters and not just shunt everything off to streaming because that's better for the health of theaters and that's better for the health of the industry and that's better for the quality of movies I guess I'm sure that's right. In practice, it just seems like it's going to punish a lot of films that don't have the budget or the financial support to do these extra runs, you know, because a lot of the movies that you and I love rely on a late limited release and then a boost from award season conversation to actually promote them so you know maybe

distributors will adjust their budgets accordingly like you know i'm sure that's possible as well and it's it's all about money i guess but i don't know as with with everything, it's like the Oscars make a rule change that's arbitrary and made up as are the Oscars. And the, the way it works out probably hasn't been totally thought through. Yeah. The movie I thought of was to Leslie, which of course garnered an,

a best actress nomination. And how many theaters did that play in? How many cities did that play in? I'm not sure. I don't know, but it's been in the Netflix charts recently in the top whatever now that it's available. And that has to be because it got a lot of free or free-ish publicity. Yeah, these things work both ways, right?

Like for Apple and Amazon and Netflix, I don't really feel like this rule change is kind of financially significant to them. It would be very easy for them to just kind of four wall movies in whatever 10 cities and move on with their day. Air played in 3,500 screens. Like they're already aware of what's coming. Like Apple is putting Napoleon and Killers of the Flower Moon on probably thousands of screens in the fall. So it's a little bit more intriguing for Netflix because they've really been resistant to do this, but I don't think it would really cost much for them to do it. But you're right, the smaller

films, if there's a film that is only able to play in a couple of cities and it comes from a very small studio but then bursts through, it's a very good point. I don't know. It's interesting. It's an attempt, I think, to do what you're suggesting, which is to kind of salvage not just the theatrical experience but the expectation of quality that comes with the theatrically

released film. I don't know that the Academy quite has the power to navigate something like that. And it also diminishes some films that are made for streamers that are actually quite good.

I know we bemoan the streaming movies all the time. I do all the time. There are still great movies that are made exclusively for streamers that are actually quite good. I know we bemoan the streaming movies all the time. I do all the time. There are still great movies that are made exclusively for streamers. It's interesting. I feel like the Oscars, as usual, is pretty stuck in trying to recapture something I can't get back. Just bringing lots of positivity today from Sean Fennessey, as always. I'm low physically. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing, Sean. The Oscars have not been the center of culture

for like 25 years. And you and I- What? Still lose our damn minds for six months every year. And I think you and I will continue to do so while also watching other films and talking about other things.

So people can engage or not engage with that. It's not going away for you. I am not able to absolve you of the crippling anxiety and unnatural fixation that you have on the Oscars and their rules and regulations. What what what are we talking about next week? What positive thing are we doing? What's going to lift the spirits of the listeners at home? Harrison Ford, baby baby i just absolutely can we just turn this podcast into a harrison ford only podcast we might have to i want to recommend to people people aren't listening to the end of

this podcast to like learn about the rewatchables um but the last crusade episode despite your insanity was very good and it's primarily because it's about a Harrison Ford movie, if not the best Indiana Jones movie, which is another thing we will debate at some point next week. We've got Harrison Ford Hall of Fame, right? Yes. With Chris Ryan. Yes. And then we will be talking about Dial of Destiny and we will be ranking the Indiana Jones films. I am told with a special guest. Is that correct?

That's correct. Um, with it, I would say with a guest who is equally horny for Harrison Ford to yourself, I was going to say liable to say almost anything on the podcast. Yeah, I was going to say,

uh, well, that sounds fun. Um, Bob, thanks for your work on this podcast as the producer. Thanks for making me sound like a beautiful sonorous beast you know just let's let's pitch up my voice you don't sound that bad

i mean your attitude is do you want me to make you sound like will i am so that people can't tell that you're sick that would be awesome yeah i feel like a kraken i feel like a deep sea beast i think you're doing great thank you you. Appreciate it. You made it through. Amanda, you did a great job. Okay. Thanks so much. It's unnatural. I look forward to going back

to my chaos role. Okay, that's it. Thank you, Bobby. Thank you, Sean. See you guys next week. Thank you.