The Big Picture - John Krasinski on ‘A Quiet Place’ and the Question of a Sequel | Interview (Ep. 103)

Episode Date: November 29, 2018

Actor, writer, and director John Krasinski joins the show to talk about how he became not just the star, but also the writer-director of the box office smash ‘A Quiet Place,’ how he evolved after ‘The Office,’ and where he’s going next. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A Quiet Place literally is my entire DNA. It's a love letter to my kids. It's everything I've been wanting to say. It made me realize it's not about the success levels. It's not about where do you go on the bigger tentpole stuff. It's like, if you fall in love with it, do it. And if it's a tentpole movie, it's a tentpole movie. And if it's a tiny indie movie that no one sees, then great.

I'm Sean Fennessey, editor-in-chief of The Ringer, and this is The Big Picture, a conversation show with some of the most interesting filmmakers in the world. I'm not going to belabor this. John Krasinski is here. You know him. Jim Halpert, Jack Ryan, and now also a writer-director who made a great film this year called A Quiet Place. Many people have seen it. I don't know if I need to explain it to you. It's an incredible blend of genre, allegory, and terror. So here's John Krasinski talking about his incredible year, A Quiet Place, and what it means for the future. Wow, we're joined by John Krasinski. John, thank you so much for coming in.

It's so good to be here. Thanks for having me. John, you're a filmmaker. This is not your first film, A Quiet Place. This is your third movie. But this is a much different movie from the previous two films. Yes. And you've worked with a lot of great directors,

probably more than I think some people realize. Sam Mendes, Kevin Bigelow, Chris Guest. You've worked with a lot of great filmmakers, but nobody who's really made a movie like A Quiet Place. I was wondering if there were people that you called before you started doing this to say like, how do I make a movie like this? You know what's interesting? It was really fun to be my own test audience. And what I mean by that is I had never liked genre.

I was too terrified of genre. I think in the early 90s I saw, or late 80s or whatever it was, I saw a nightmare on Elm Street and just blacked out for six years so I just I listened to that 12 year old self for a long long time when it came to genre so I was very tempted to call a bunch of people that I've worked with or you know gotten the the chance to know and then I thought wait a minute what if I use myself as my own test audience meaning why don't you go through all these movies? Obviously I caught up on genre before I directed and I started writing down in a notepad, all the stuff that scared me. And so instead of looking at technical things to try to, you know, steal, basically, I didn't look at that. I looked at what was the moment I felt the most scared? Where did I feel the most tense? Whether it was a storyline or a music cue or something like that. And what I thought was if

I actually just make my version of this movie, which I didn't see as a genre movie, I saw it as a family drama. If I can focus on that, then I'll be able to achieve something because if I try to make the movies that they're going to tell me to make, I know I'm just going to get completely overwhelmed

with, am I doing enough? It's almost like when you learn a sport or something, where you become really great is when you're doing something that no one else is doing. So I tried not to think about what everybody else had done. So you weren't looking for technical shots necessarily? No, no. You were just like, what is the feeling I get when this happens? Yeah, exactly. And honestly, it's funny. It goes all the way back to The Office. I remember

Greg Daniels, who was the creator of the show, he said to me one day, he said, your job is not to deliver these lines funny. Your job is just to deliver these lines. And if people think they're funny, it's funny. And if people think that what you're dealing with, with Pam especially, is like sweet or sad or whatever, it makes them cry, that's up to them too. But you're supposed to be a real person. Just deliver it. Obviously, that was a mockumentary.

But it actually served me throughout my entire career. And not to overstate it, but it's true. If he hadn't told me that, I don't think I would have done this movie. Because again, if I had gone into it thinking, I'm going to make a creature feature in a horror movie, I would have failed miserably. But instead, I thought, if I can tell this family drama and sort of Trojan horse it as a genre film, which I think is my favorite type of genre film. So I wanted this to feel like a throwback.

Of course, I've seen all this stuff in the last 10 years. And the first thing I realized in catching up on all this genre was how ignorant I was to not be watching genre all the time. Because certainly in the last five or 10 years, I think some of the best filmmaking is in genre. I mean, from directing to writing to cinematography,

but Get Out is obvious. That's very obvious. I feel like a lot of people have said like Get Out and Quiet Place almost go together as this pair. Oh, that's really nice. That's amazing. I mean, I'm a huge fan of Jordan's and a huge fan of that movie. And I think that movie had such an incredible social commentary on top of it. But then you also have like The Witch, which is one of the most terrifying growing up Catholic. We don't deal with the devil stories all that well. So that goat, I think again, blacked me out for another six years, just like Freddie did.

So, but then honestly, I remember thinking, let the right one in, the original was one of the best love stories I've ever seen in my life. And it just happens to be that she's a vampire. And so it's those things that I really connected to. And so my touchstones were Jaws and Rosemary's Baby and Alien that didn't feel like their goal things that I really connected to. And so my touchstones were Jaws and Rosemary's Baby and Alien that didn't feel like their goal was to scare the hell out of you. It was actually this

idea of storytelling using this genre device really to help you explore things that you wouldn't otherwise explore. You mentioned Craig Daniels in The Office and you directed some episodes of that show. I'm curious what kind of movies you thought you were going to be making when you were shooting those episodes. I didn't think I would be making any movies. Really? Yeah. I, I, I, directing was one of those things where I never wanted to be a director because I held it in such high regard. I always remember hearing friends of mine who were like, you know, when this whole acting thing's over, I'll start directing. And as if it was a foregone conclusion. And I always felt really sort of cringed by that because it seemed disrespectful.

And so when they asked me to direct an episode of The Office, I legitimately went to every cast member and was like, is this okay? Would you feel all right by that? It's almost like directing your family. And so directing came to me in this very unique, very supportive situation. and it kind of opened up the door in a small way where then the idea of doing it again slowly grew and grew and I directed my first movie brief interviews with hideous men out of sheer ignorance I mean the term ignorance is bliss is exactly my experience so much so that my cinematographer who is a genius and is now the head of the academy John Bailey he at the end of the um I John Bailey. He, at the end of the, um, I've been lucky to have these experiences where people give such amazing

wisdom. He, at the end of the experience said, that was amazing. That was really fun. I said, wow, thanks. I thought it was amazing too. And he said, do you mind if we talk about how, what could have gone wrong? And at first I was like, is this like a negative conversation? And instead what he was saying is here's a lot of the places where you got lucky and the next time around, you don't have to be lucky. You can prepare for it, whether it's a location that you lost or a cast member that you, you know, waited too long to cast or a department head that probably could have been more supportive if you had someone else, something like that, where you really start going through this minefield that I just sort of happily danced through not knowing that there was anything under my feet this is in brief interviews yeah this is in brief interviews and so the next time I directed I remember thinking exactly that and I I took a lot longer in prep with the hollers because it was that thing of I won't move forward until I have exactly the team that I want and the exact cast that I want, because it really taught

me don't make anything just to make it. You know, that, that is one thing that I've always felt about the office. I remember people have asked me so many times, you know, is this new sort of version of your career to run away from gym to prove that you're not Jim? And I said, no, it's the exact opposite. Like my whole reason for doing all these things is really simple. The opportunity I got to play Jim was so massive that I genuinely felt like I didn't deserve it. It was a lottery ticket. And I just felt like I was shot out of a cannon and got all these incredible experiences.

And I named my production company Sunday night. And the reason why I named it Sunday night was because when I got to New York and was a professional waiter, all my friends, the one thing you don't get to do as an actor or writer or director is act writer direct. So we were all assistants or bartenders or waiters, or I was cleaning like yoga studios, like whatever I could do. And so we would meet on Sunday night and we'd have some drinks and we'd slam down, you know, pint glasses and say, if we ever got the chance, this is what we do, you know, with this crazy business. And so to be really honest with you, I had that opportunity with the office. I had the opportunity to just kind of pursue very, very similar characters. And I just

remembered those guys slamming down pint glasses and saying, if we ever got the opportunity, this is what we do. And I got that opportunity. And so I said, I want to push the limits. I want to push my own limits. I want to challenge myself. And I am very lucky to have the success at that time to fail. The more success you have, the small buffer you have to fail. And so I wanted to go for it. I got to say, I'm very, I've always been fascinated by Promise Land, this movie that you made with Matt Damon and you co-wrote that movie. And you also, some people know that you essentially came up with the, one of the ideas for Manchester by the Sea

with Matt. Yeah. And I had this feeling like you were going to go towards like the 70s drama direction. Oh, interesting. That was going to be where your career was going to be.

So A Quiet Place was particularly surprising. And I guess in some ways, like you say, there's a Trojan horse aspect to the movie. Yeah. And it does have some aspects

No, it's really interesting that you say that. So Manchester by the Sea was my first idea. It was weird because I met Matt through, I'd been obviously a huge fan of his. And if you're from Boston, I think all of us have a tattoo of Goal Hunting's poster somewhere.

You got your Red Sox hat on right now. Exactly. I do. You always have to throw the flag, whatever that means. It's a safe space here. Exactly. Yeah. That's what I hear.

But it was one of those things where as soon as we met, it was like within weeks we became, it was very quick. Him being such a weird hero, honestly, like a hero of mine, because Good Will Hunting was not only a great movie, but it was the definition of what I really connected to at movies. You know, that, that idea of really great characters, um, in very simple circumstances, uh, trying to get through life in a better way. And so when we met a couple of weeks into it, he said almost right away, are you a writer? And I said, I mean, I have ideas. And he said, no, Emily says that you write. And I said, well, yeah, I have a couple of ideas. And the first thing I pitched him was Manchester by the Sea. And the reason why I thought of it is because my oldest brother at the time, now both my brothers have

kids and we have kids, but I didn't have kids. And it was with that, just that idea, the idea of what if my brother came to me and asked a person who hadn't put his life together in any way, shape or form to take care of somebody else and take care of somebody that you are now responsible for. So I started, I wrote the outline and sort of wrote the story. And then I also had promised land and that sort of moved faster because Matt wanted to direct it at the time. And we started writing it together, which was really fun. And so we gave Manchester by the sea to Kenny. And, you know, it's one of those things where I love that it's my story. I love

that the idea of it, but I would never have made that movie. Like that is all Kenny and that's the beauty of our business. And we're in a weird way and encapsulates everything I love about our business, which is true collaboration is always going to lead to the most magical sort of results and if Matt had played the part which he was thinking about doing with all due respect to Matt no way could he have pulled off the performance that Casey did and I worked as well no not at all and if I had written the script I wouldn't have gone in the past that Kenny did that that became their their movie. And it's, again, it's one of my favorite experiences because you just look at it. I had very little to do with it. You just, you take an idea, you give it to the right person and you make magic. It was fun.

You talked about that conversation with John Bailey and kind of the preparation that goes into making a movie. Obviously, A Quiet Place is significantly different from other movies, FX shots. There's, it's a lot more high tension in some ways. What were the things that you actually were not prepared for when you were making it? So much. I mean, so much I wasn't prepared for. To be honest with you, it was my wife who told me that I should direct it. So I read the spec script and the spec script was very different from the script I ended up writing, but the idea was perfect. I mean, I don't think that I've heard a better idea. It's a genius elevator pitch. Yeah, it's such a great idea and it is one of those things that you wonder why it hasn't been done before.

And there are elements of this script that the guys had done that were really, really cool that I wanted to incorporate and definitely play with. But it was really, can I make this a metaphor for parenthood? This became, to your point of this like 70s drama thing, I think this kind of was my 70s drama. I think I kind of felt, again, I had no idea how to do the genre, but I'd figure it out. I wanted to tell ordinary people or some sort of Kramer versus Kramer or like this unbelievably intense family unit story that was umbrellaed in this bigger sense of story. And so that's sort of how I went through with it. But when I went down to pitch it to Emily, I was like, I'm going to rewrite it and star in it.

They had asked if I would star in the movie. And I said, I'm going to rewrite and star in it. I think I'm going to ask them to do that. And she said, no, you're not. And I said, I'm not? And she said, no, you're going to ask them to direct it. And now she knew I had directed two movies, but it wasn't like I was a director in the house.

It was something that I always wanted to do again. But I said I wouldn't do it again because it is such a commitment. It's like two years of your life. And it's basically every ounce of energy you have is put into directing, which is amazing. But I didn't want to do it just to do it. And she said, I've never seen you this excited. I've never seen you this lit up. You have to do it.

And it's every producer's dream to have a guy that you offered the lead role to be like, yeah, I'll do it if I can rewrite and direct it. And they were like, oh, shit. It is a 70s drama thing, though. It's like, that's a Robert Redford move. Yeah, it is. Yeah. And again, I think that I realized I was doing these big swings without realizing it.

And so to get back to your point of what I hadn't thought of, I mean, I had never done visual effects. But one of the best parts about being an actor that gets the great opportunity to direct is you realize that collaboration is King. You realize through your director that the energy that happens when you hadn't thought of something and things change slightly or in a major way, that's where the magic happens. That's where the most special moments, in my opinion of movies happen, or at least the experience. And so, so when ILM came, this guy, Scott Farrar, who was one of the original guys at ILM, I mean, this is the guy that at lunch breaks when I'm talking about, you know,

an office episode or something, he's like, oh yeah, it's like when we were, you know, when we were designing the Raptor scene in Jurassic Park and you're like, what? And you're not allowed to be in the same room with that person. It just feels like he's too holy of a person. Or he actually said, you know, I was the guy who was running the camera when the first Imperial ship came across the opening of Star Wars. And you're like, what? Crazy. It's just insane. So this guy came to basically describe how the interface would work logistically. Like this is how you turn over film dust and all this stuff. And are you comfortable with this? And I said, here's the deal. I have drawings of

the creature. I have ideas. I have this weird nerdy evolution of how they got to where they are, but I've never done this before. So can we talk for the next two days? And you really help me understand what I'm doing. Not only did he stay for the two days and make me walk on the ground like the creature and all these amazing fun exercises, he then said, I'm going to be the one to stay on. And he stayed on for seven weeks. So we had one of the highest level guys at ILM stay on because he said, this is why I started making movies. This feels like that collaboration in the early days. And what he basically said was, I love that your first thing is, I don't know. And I learned that from my dad. I remember my dad saying, you know, one of the strongest and, you know,

most masculine things you can say is, I don't know. It's the strongest thing you can say sometimes. And I thought that's kind of genius advice, you know, and, and you get so much back, you get such great results. So this guy ended up staying on for the six weeks that we shot, six and a half weeks. And it was one of the most fun experiences for me, visual effects, which was the thing I was most scared of without a doubt. And it ended up being the most fun I had because we were really collaborating on every level. And he was telling me each and every specific thing that might come up and you want to be careful of that. It was basically the John Bailey conversation, but in real time. I saw the film for the first time at South by Southwest at that big screening. You're an OG. You were an original. I was there. It was very fun. And as soon as the

movie started, and that's a big room where it played, I was like, oh, the sound design thing is so genius. Like it just works so well. It was so pin drop in the room. How much of that was, obviously a lot of it was by design, but was it literally in the script saying like, there will be no sound for 12 minutes here? And were you explicit about how to do that? Yeah. So one of the reasons when I was rewriting, one of the things that's so great about rewriting the script when I was doing this is you're directing from the moment you open that computer. And so I wrote everything into the script and even certain shots and how cameras move. So the opening shot of her on that sand that you think she's on a beach, but she's actually in the sand path. All that stuff I wrote because it was really, to be honest, reminders. So that when

on the day I'd be like, oh, right, I forgot about instead of writing everything in shot list that I would inevitably lose in my car or something. Is that different from scripts that you've written in the past or that you've read? No, I always write pretty visually, which I'm sure is frustrating if a director reads my script and he's like, well, great, man. Thanks. Now I know how you want to direct it. But again, I've only directed stuff. I've directed brief interviews I wrote and then The Hollers I did not write. That was a genius script by Jim Strauss. That was amazing.

But this one, yeah, I wrote in all these different things. And when sound would cut out, when you'd be in her head and, you know, those little ideas were really fun. But the sound design is one of those things where it was the first meeting i took on the movie literally the studio said okay fine you can be the director and the next day i met the sound team they had done everything from saving private ryan to terrence malick movies to avatar i mean you name it they've done it um so they were good they're okay um and i went and visited them and i was pitching them that the main character of this movie is sound it's not a character it is the character and they were like jogging their legs and like wiggling in their chairs and i turned

to my producer and i thought we're definitely not going to get these guys they want to get out of here and i said is everything okay and they just blurted out they were like we got to get out of here man we got to get out of here i mean we said, is everything okay? And they just blurted out. They were like, we got to get out of here, man. We got to get out of here. I mean, we know what this movie is. We just got to go start designing it. We know exactly what this is. Please let us go. Please let us go. And I went, okay. And they ran out of the room and started designing the movie. We knew that all of this would be a lot of fun. It was almost overwhelming how much possibility and how much potential there was. And so it was almost reigning in this idea. And my only note to them was be bolder, be bigger. Like if we're going to do this, take a big swing. And the irony of that is we were sound editing till 5.30 in the morning of the day that you saw it. So we were flying to Austin and had just edited

till 5.30 in the morning. And at 5.30 in the morning, I'm in a dark room with my incredible sound mixer and sound designer. And I said, you know, it was the end of the movie where we cut out the sound completely because she's not wearing her hearing aid. And we were all really excited and extremely tired. And I just, it was that last moment of doubt where I went, is this too much? Are people going to really go with this? And I remember my sound designer saying, I don't know, man, but we know man but we gotta go with it now and I was like well that's not the answer I wanted and and then he later said when else are you gonna get the opportunity in your career to take an artistic swing like this like how rare is it to be able to really swing for the fences and I think if we went halfway on this sound design where we did a couple cool things but didn't want to push

you too far we wouldn't have had all in opinion, my favorite comments about the movie, which is the idea that an audience wasn't eating the idea that an audience felt like they were in it together, that you were having a group experience that people were going to the theater to see it because they heard they can't go see it anywhere else. And this is not one to wait on DVD. I mean, you can't plan for that. My favorite story was we had our first test screening and we didn't have the creature in and I was the creature wearing a very tight mocap suit with vans. That's scary in a different way. Exactly. Yeah. No, there's footage of it and we will never release it to the public. But I was, I was, so bizarrely they were through

like 86 or 90% of the movie and they were kind of with it. And then all of a sudden my van steps down into frame and it's me shaking with this polka dotted suit and with this weird beard making the sound of like, and they immediately burst into laughter. And I was like, well, that's it. My career is over. And they all, you know, they, they get it down to a test audience of

like 25. They take 150 people and they keep 25 people after and they ask him a bunch of questions. And I'll never forget the wording of the last question. This guy said, is there anything else we need to know about this movie? And this guy raises his hand shaking and he goes, oh, what you need to know is that I snuck a bag of Skittles in here. And for 90 minutes, I was just like this. And it was his fingers at the top of the bag and his mouth agape. And he was like, 90 minutes. I held a bag of Skittles and didn't move it for 90 minutes. And I turned to my producer and I said, that's the best compliment we're ever going to get on this movie. Yeah. I was thinking it's, it probably breaks the record for the most shushing

in any movie. You know, like people are relentless about being like, just shut up. You need to not talk to this. At the New York premiere, I remember I was talking to this woman about the movie and she was being so incredibly nice. She was like, it's so sweet. And oh my God, I was so moved. And everything was like real. It was a real love fest. And then all of a sudden she goes, there he is. And she points to this guy and I went, why? Who is it? Who is it? And she goes, that's the popcorn guy. And I was like, no, no, no, we're all in this together. We're a family. You can't like isolate people now. And people got pretty angry at the popcorn guy. It's tough. It was a tough break for the concession group in general. Tell me about working with Emily. I know you've said it's an incredible experience. She encouraged you to make this. I'm always interested if it's hard to have a relationship when you're working that closely

together. And can you, can you have the same shorthand that you have at home? Do you have to modulate the way that you're together when you're working? So here's the deal. The day before we started shooting, she turned to me and she said, are you scared? And I said, I'm terrified. And she said, thank God, me too. So we were both understanding of how this could go very, very wrong.

And it ended up being, without a doubt, my favorite collaboration I've ever done. The reason being, the real core of it is, I didn't ask her to do the movie. When I wrote the script, when I rewrote the script, I only had her in mind for many reasons. One, she's my favorite actress, but two, she's the only most pure representation of motherhood and strength and all these things that the character had. But she was shooting a tiny indie movie called Mary Poppins. And she had also just had our second child who at the time, I think without I was writing, she was like 12 weeks old or something. So there was a lot going on for her. And I was really scared that she'd say no, but I

was more scared that she would say, yes, I'll do it for you. Because the bizarre thing about being in this relationship, we keep our business separate. We keep the relationship sort of the mandatory thing. And then we'll always talk and give each other advice, but we try not to get involved in each other's stuff. And I've sat next to her every single time she's made that decision to jump onto a movie. And there's no one that I know, truly, no one that I know that has more class,

a higher taste level, more dedication to the projects she signs onto than her. So I didn't want the one movie in her resume to be like, well, I didn't love the script, but I did it for him. So I didn't ask her. I just couldn't, I couldn't live with that. And I knew that it would hurt my ability to direct the film. So when she organically signed on, which I'm sure I've told before, but she was on an airplane and she asked if I could read it, if she could read it. And I went back to watching like Ant-Man or something.

And at the end of the script, it looked like she was sick. So I legitimately was reaching for a barf bag to give to her. And she goes, no one else. You can't let anyone else do this movie. And it was like a weird romantic comedy where I thought she was proposing to me or something. I was like, what are you talking about? And she said, well, you let me do this part. You have to let me do this part.

And I screamed out on the plane, yes. And it was that moment, not only was one of the greatest moments of my career and my life, because it's just such a special, rare moment. I was so blown away, but I realized it was the gateway to making this experience perfect. Because if she can arrive to it organically, then we can talk through this whole movie honestly and openly. And so we went through every line of the script. We went through, I stood in my living room three nights in a row and basically pitched her every single shot that I was going to do. And so really the collaboration and all the direction happened long before we arrived on set. And therefore, by the time we got on set, we were making the same movie. So there was never really an opportunity to fight or disagree or any of those things. And I

knew that the budget was smaller than it should be. And the timeframe is shorter as they always are. And so I didn't want to affect her performance with a, you know, it would be really weird to do the bathtub scene and be like, you know, so what were you thinking for this? And, you know, we'd spend six days talking about what I was thinking for it. And instead it was, it was almost like, you know, truly like a sport. Like we arrived on set, she got in the bathtub and it was just like, I know what I'm doing. You know what you're doing. Let's do it. Let's, let's just like, the legend is one take. Exactly. Just jump. Yeah, it is. Yeah. So that was one take. That's not a joke. She won't say it cause she's too humble, but it was one take. And here's how frustratingly

good she is. That one take of, I mean, I think it's the, in my opinion, it's the best performance, not only forget this year and all that award stuff. It's the best performance I've seen in a really long time because I don't think I've ever seen anything so honest, so real, so terrifying. You are 100% with her. And how I knew it was such a good performance is because the entire crew couldn't breathe, legit couldn't breathe. The air was out of the room and everybody was just staring at her. And on dailies, you can hear me say, so that's lunch? Like where else do you go from that performance? And this is how frustratingly good she is. She goes from this terrified face of like crying and screaming to then going, yeah, what is for lunch? I heard it was chicken fajitas.

Is it chicken fajitas? That'd be great. And you're like, what? You're able to jump in and out of that insane intensity that quickly. It was, it was really, it was really something special to watch. Paul Dano was here a few weeks ago and we were talking about his movie and he worked with his partner Zoe Kazan on it. And he, it was funny the way that he talked about it. He was like, I wrote this script and I gave it to her. She's a writer. And she was like, this is bad, more or less. And I'm wondering if Emily ever said like, you actually just can't do this. Like this doesn't work at all.

Like, did you guys have that kind of collaboration too? Or you can be like that frank with each other about what you're working on? Oh yeah, for sure. It was more, I think for us, you know, I'd really taken the time to write the script, again, exactly as I saw it, exactly as I was going to shoot it.

So she actually really appreciated that the vision was that clear so she didn't have notes on how it was bad or could be better but there were things that came up organically throughout the process like for instance um at the end of the movie I never had Emily shooting the creature spoiler alert but um I never had her shooting the creature the producer said to me uh and the producer and I who didn't really know each other before this process became incredibly close friends he said you know I think she should shoot the creature at the end of the movie and I said why and he said I think that's what the audience wants and of course I was like how dare you and I went home thinking about it and I actually came back the next day and when I pitched to Emily she

was like no way no that's not what this movie is. And it's, there's a different, what you had was right. And of course she's, she's an actress. So she had been living with this for weeks and weeks and weeks with a certain ending. So I'm driving in, um, back to work. And the next morning I was listening to a podcast, which randomly happened to be a Steven Spielberg interview from like 1979. And this woman asked him, why is your class of directors important? Why are you somebody that we should pay attention to when we have artists like Truffaut and all these people? And he said, well, because we can deliver you the art film, the film that will leave a stink on you. I remember loving that term. And he said, but we can also let you have fun doing it. And I promise you can have both. And I thought, oh my God, there's my answer. I can, I can definitely have

her shoot the creature, but it has to be artfully done in my way of the, of the movie. So I came back in and I pitched him and then I pitched Emily. I said, you won't shoot the creature. It will be a team thing that we thought the girl had the secret and she's going to end up killing the creature. She doesn't, you being the mother, take that extra shot for, so the teamwork of it all became great. But the thing that was the best was I said, that won't be the end of the movie. The end of the movie will be what I always wanted it to be, which is the family knowing that you don't know what's going to happen next. And so she shoots the creature. There's this great moment, but the moment I came up with was there will be two more creatures and you cock the gun and the look to your daughter is,

I don't know what's going to happen, but as as you're here we'll get through it and that's when Emily was like all right let's do it so immediately she was like you can't you can't ever have me shoot the creature at the end of the movie and then by the time we sort of all thought about it together I wouldn't have come to that better ending if Emily hadn't said no you know I mean if Emily was like yeah let's do it Who cares? So I think that it was more about challenging you to make the best version of these ideas rather than doing anything easy, which I really respect.

That's really interesting. My theory is that as fun and as scary as the movie is, the reason that it was such a word of mouth success is because the ending is one of those like spine chilling, like, whoa, like that was great. Oh, that's awesome. And I think that that's why a lot of people were just like walked out of the theater. Like, you go see this it's really really fun but i know you

said originally you didn't want to do a sequel it ends in such a perfect way and now you are working on a sequel so why did you dare you with the judgment in your eyes i'm not judging you i love this movie no it's a it's a great it's a great question so what happened to me is listen i i'm a realist so I've always loved the idea of looking at everything from everybody else's perspective and I totally get it like when you're a studio and you have a hit like that you want another one so I said you know go with God and get another director and another screenwriter this wasn't our intention it wasn't the studio's intention but I understand why the thing you have to give

them a lot of credit for is, you know, they wanted to talk to me a lot about what would be your idea. And, you know, we'll go out to all these other people, but like, what's the idea? Like how, how do we maintain the respect and, and how do we maintain the level of quality for the audience? They were very well aware that they didn't just make a successful movie. They made a movie that this audience made successful, that these people who came loved it for a certain reason. So just to like pump out a second one was probably a bad decision. And that's why I said I didn't want to do it. So I had this little idea that I thought of and, you know, my producer again was very smart and said, you know, will you just write it down so I can give it to these filmmakers who are coming into pitch? And I said, yeah. And then after like three weeks, he was like, why don't you just

write this? And then we'll get another filmmaker. Like just, and of course, Jedi mind tricked me into signing onto the sequel. But the idea for me was why I had this little idea that's now gotten bigger is most sequels are about a villain returning or a hero returning. And you have to build this entire world around just the idea that I have a hero or a villain. That's a lot. And I think that's where a lot of sequels go wrong because as much as you love that hero or villain, the entire thing is fabricated just to make that person work. We have the world. So it's actually the world that's built.

It's the world, the rules, that idea of the rest of the world is going through this exact same experience. Are there other people that have to survive like this? It's that idea of living through the set of circumstances, not again in the same way, obviously, but sort of exploring it more. You only got to do it intimately for a small amount of time. So what happens next? And that's why I got really excited because for me, it is certainly the most fun I've ever had in my career as a writer was writing this because I got to just play in the most exciting world. And it was actually Emily, of course, who articulated it well, better than me. And she said, yeah, but it's not a sequel

because I pitched it. She said the same thing. She was like, no way, don't do a second one. And then I pitched her my idea and she was like, so you're definitely doing that. And she said, but it's not a sequel. It's the second book in a series. And she said, it sounds semantics, but it's true. It really is. You're not doing anything that's like, all right, I'm going to take all the things you love and just kind of repeat them, but in a different way. It's not a quieter place. Damn it.

You know the title already? Sorry. No, it's not a quieter place. It's sort of an exploration of getting to live with these characters or sort of the circumstances rather than the characters. And I think that that's really cool. It's really fun. I assume that you've had the opportunity to do like a superhero movie. You obviously worked with Michael Bay once before on film.

I never thought you would end up in a position where you were working in genre. And even this is sort of like a tentpole movie now given how big this movie got do you feel now compelled to just make a lot more stuff like this because it's very different from what you've done before as we've been talking about yeah no i don't i feel like um the one thing that if i'm really honest with you i remember having a conversation with someone towards the end of the office and they said oh man when this show ends you'll get so many phone calls because it's such a big show and people are going to want you to do with someone towards the end of the office. And they said, oh man, when this show ends, you'll get so many phone calls because it's such a big show and people are going to want you to do all this different stuff. And you know, the truth is the phone never rang because it was sort of that thing of, well, he's Jim from the office. So we don't want to put Jim from the office in a

movie. Like just let that be what it is. And it was an adjustment period, you know, not anything like boohoo me, but it was one of those things where like, oh, well, if I don't start doing something for myself, then I, I'm just going to be sitting around. And so it was this idea of what do I spend my time on? And we had just had our first daughter and certainly don't want to go away from her for no reason. So it was this idea of the hollers was a movie that I had been offered as an actor. And I was so in love with it. I come from the most loving connected family, and this is about a completely dysfunctional disconnected family, but there was something in it that was universal about the love of family.

So I did that. It seemed like perfect opportunity. It was kind of already in my lap as an actor. So I did that. And then, um, quiet place came same, like I just said, it's sort of, I had no, I literally said no. So I had no intention of doing this movie, then read it and realized it could be a love letter to my kids and did it. So the cool thing about having these experiences. And like I said, the level of success to fall back on and fail has made me realize that in this moment, you can go two ways, which is continue down the road of like bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, or just connect to the things you love and make sure that whether it fails or succeeds, you love it and you can stand by it as this is the exact reason I did it. Not because they offered me a Marvel franchise to direct, you know, which, by the way, if there was a character that defined my childhood, you know, I mean, and I can't even think which one it would be.

I mean, the only character that I was totally obsessed with as a kid was Batman. Because it was, again, he's a real person. He wasn't sort of, didn't have superpowers. He was just this sort of incredible person. But it's one of those things, like, if it defines me, A Quiet Place literally is my entire DNA. It's a love letter to my kids. It's everything I've been wanting to say. It made me realize it's not about the success levels. It's not about where do you go on the bigger tentpole stuff.

It's like, if you fall in love with it, do it. And if it's a tentpole movie, it's a tentpole movie. And if it's a tiny indie movie that no one sees, then great. Because Manchester by the Sea, I think, is very similar. It's a tiny movie that did well because people connected to it. And so if you just keep telling the stuff that you really, really love, hopefully it'll find a life somewhere. Only a couple more for you. Do you see yourself more as an actor or director now? And I know that

that's a false binary, but I'm curious, like what you think you'll be doing. Boy, I'm a smart guy. You are smart. At least you said it. Good for you. No, that blew my mind just now. No, it's a really good question. I think probably up until even directing Quiet Place, I would say I was an actor who got the opportunity to direct. I think I still stand by that. If I'm really honest with you, I love acting. So if right now I got offered a role that was any of the roles that I've loved watching, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But that said, this whole experience has really been one of the best experiences of my life. So now I definitely am going to direct again. I definitely can't wait to direct again. I'm trying to line up something to direct again. So it's one of those

things of whatever opportunity comes, whatever, because again, I don't want to direct just to direct. So if a role came up that was better than an idea I had. So I don't know, I guess it's kind of split down the middle. That's kind of a wishy-washy answer, but I guess it's split down the middle. I love them both so much, but definitely directing has taken the forefront of my life and my sort of brain power. But the other thing that I weirdly am obsessed

and want to do is get back on stage. I did my first play about two years ago. It was called Dry Powder with the most amazingly talented cast and the guy at the helm is this guy tommy kale who's again directed a tiny thing called hamilton and was so inspiring he as a person was so inspiring and so much fun to work with and getting to do that i'd never been in a play before i mean other than college you were a playwright in college though right yeah but i'd never really been i had never done a play other than in college. So I'd never done a professional play and it was so

intoxicating, so much fun and sort of a whole new different challenge and terrifying experience. I don't know. I guess I like getting a little bit into that zone. I've heard it from many people before. And it's true that the more nervous you are and the more terrified probably means you're leading to something that could be great. Could be, could be something that totally fails as well, but there's something that could be great. So I'm looking forward to doing that too. Who's someone you really want to work with? In acting, directing, anybody. I mean, you're the master of your own fate now.

It's funny because I've always been obsessed with directors. This is long before I was directing anything. And so for me, it was always about working with those collaborators. You know, I have had the incredible fortune to work with Gus Van Sant, Sam Mendes, George Clooney, all these different people. And I would love to work with another great director. So, I mean, Paul Thomas Anderson, I think is sort of stratospheric for me. He ended up hosting our, you know, screening our award screening last night. And I genuinely had a out of body experience to hear Paul Thomas Anderson talking about a quiet place is, you know, one of his favorite movies, not of this year, but of the last few years. And the reason why we're all doing what we're doing and you're like, yeah, I'm going to check out for a while. And, um, this is crazy. So I'd love to work with him. I'd love to work with David Fincher. I'd love to, I'd love to do that. All my favorite guys.

Perfect. Do it. Yeah, okay, great. Thank you. To that note, at the end of every show, we ask filmmakers, what's the last great thing that they've seen? So I'm wondering, have you been watching movies?

What's the last great thing you've seen? Oh man, I gotta say, I was wide open. I was just in the right place for Stars Born. It was like the day it opened. I'm lucky to be friendly with Bradley, but I was so excited for him, which I think makes it harder, to be honest. I think when you're excited for a friend, it makes the experience harder to disconnect. And I went into that movie and really fell in love. I mean, really, really fell in love. And I haven't had as much time. We've been shooting Jack Ryan season two in Columbia. And so it's hard when you're in

Columbia. Obviously, it's hard to catch the movies that are coming out. So we were there for like four months. So now I'm kind of catching up, but definitely the movies I want to see coming out. I guess the movie I'm most excited to see is Roma. I can't wait to see that movie. It's incredible. It's incredible.

Yeah. Yeah. But what is it about A Star Is Born? What did you really like? What was the thing that you saw? You were like, wow, I didn't know he could do that. I didn't know Bradley could do that. Well, it's like you were saying,

it felt like a seventies movie. It felt like the seventies movies to me, you know, everybody always says like, ah, 70s movies, I'm the biggest fan. And I think that for me, what it was is the honesty, the truth of it, right? So my favorite movie of all time is The Verdict. And I think I saw a lot of The Verdict in A Star is Born. I think that Bradley was obviously going through something very personal in that movie and treading on ground that he had been through personally and taking

a big swing to redo a movie that's been done before and casting someone like Lady Gaga to be in the movie. It was one of those things where I just so admired the whole thing and it felt very organic. It felt very authentic. I felt like I was there. I felt like I was in the middle of a love story. And the other thing I think I loved about it is, I don't know, for me, I just, I don't know if I've seen a romance in a really long time, you know, used to be the Tracy and Hepburn kind of romances all the time. And now it's, I don't know whether people are scared of being sentimental or having sentimentality go too far one way. People just aren't making those epic romances again. And I'm really glad for me, I'm really glad that it's back in A Star Is Born. John, I'm glad you made A Quiet Place. Thanks so

much. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Thanks again for listening to this episode of The Big Picture. We'll be back next week to talk about the Golden Globe nominations on the Oscars show, and we'll be talking about some other movies in wide release. If you want more movies, check out The Rewatchables where Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and I broke down one of my personal favorites, The Firm. And if you want to read about movies, I wrote

about them on the site this week. I wrote about the Oscars and the one category that the Oscars should add. So check that out on TheRinger.com. See you next week.