The Big Picture - ‘Killers of the Flower Moon’ Hype at Cannes and Five Must-See May Movies. Plus: Julia Louis-Dreyfus!

Episode Date: May 26, 2023

Sean and Amanda come to you live (on tape) from Europe! They recap their journeys, discuss the hype out of the Cannes Film Festival (1:00), and share five new movie recommendations (17:00). Then, Sean is joined by Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Nicole Holofcener, the star and the writer-director, respectively, of the new film ‘You Hurt My Feelings’ (58:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Nicole Holofcener Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Joanna Robinson. Join us every week on the Prestige TV podcast feed as your favorite ringer hosts like Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, Mally Rubin, Sean Fennessy, Chris Ryan, Julia Lippman, and many more cover the latest episodes of your favorite TV obsessions. From boardrooms to throne rooms to courtside and through the mushroom apocalypse, we'll be here throughout the week breaking it all down. Subscribe to the Prestige TV podcast feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show

about Europe in the summer. Later in this episode, I'll be joined by Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Nicole Holofcener, the star and writer-director of You Hurt My Feelings. We're going to talk about this wonderful new movie

on this show as well. I hope you'll stick around for my conversation with those two fantastic people. But first, we need to say we're coming to you live on tape from Europe, Amanda. Hello. That was actually hello in Swedish, which is also how you say hello in Swedish. That's actually according to Chris Ryan, who's also here with us, though not on this podcast. I didn't fact check that, so I apologize

to the very lovely and gracious Swedish people if I said hello the wrong way. I hear hey a lot here in Sweden. Yeah, that is true. Hey. We are in Sweden on some Spotify-related business, but we are still recording this blessed podcast for you. We've been in Europe for a few days. We have to start the show, I think, by saying thank you so much to the wonderful people of London, England. Yes, which is former Europe. Yes, formerly. Well, I think it's still Europe, but not in the European Union.

Europe is the continent. The European Union is the agreed upon conglomeration of countries. Okay. Understood? Yes. Okay. Nevertheless, the wonderful people who showed up to our live show at the Prince Charles Cinema over the weekend, which was frankly just a heartwarming affair. We screened the film Phantom Thread, sold out show. Every single person I met was a legend. I was so touched by the whole experience.

It was totally wild and completely lovely. Thank you to everyone who came to the Prince Charles Cinema. Thank you to the Prince Charles Cinema and specifically their programmer, Paul, and my new friend, Hannah, who were completely lovely and made it happen. And what a cool venue that, you know, because we live in Los Angeles, we didn't know anything about. But I'm sure everyone in London is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we know. But amazing. After we finished our screening and we were talking with people outside, there was just a line around the block of young, very stylish people

waiting to see a Saturday night screening of Interstellar. So that was very special for Sean. Yeah, a bit of a paradox. Yeah. A wonderful rep theater in a great town in America, supporters of the big picture, and they were showing Interstellar. It's beautiful.

Cinema is alive. It is. It's alive at the Cannes Film Festival as well. Great segue. We are, we're in Europe and so is the Cannes Film Festival. Right. That's exactly what we didn't go. How are you feeling about not being in attendance?

There's still time. You know, you can't have everything you want all at once in life because then what else are you living for? So I think it's possible for me i should also note that i i did not attend the can film festival um but i am in europe and i also received um official can merch oh for mother's day i didn't tell you this that uh my 15 month old son in quotes uh navigated the can film festival website and bought me an official can film festival scarf wow then that was my mother's day gift did he put that on his amex i don't know whether the french take amex um so i have that and and which is very cute and a very

funny gift idea by my husband um and know, it looks like they're having fun over there. There's something strange about being on this continent and not at that festival. You know, we had discussed it. You for years have openly pined to attend. There's a whole Dobmob movement that wants to see you. I did actually get a question about it at the screening at the Prince Charles Cinema. And let me once again thank the lovely woman who asked me about Cannes. I also just want to say right now in terms of European film festivals,

watch this space. That's all I can say right now. No spoilers. A bunch of films have already premiered. This episode is going up on a Friday, so the festival is

nearing its conclusion. Okay. And on the night of our special screening of Phantom Thread, Martin Scorsese debuted his new film, The Killers of the Flower Moon. It seemed like people enjoyed it. This is perhaps the most anticipated movie of the year for this show. Maybe of the last few years. I think it's safe to say the last two or three years.

I think, you know, Chris started protecting his heart by. He just gave up on our movie auctions at some point and was like, I'm not even going to try for this. When it comes, I'll watch it. My heart will be open. So yes, very anticipated. Seems like people really enjoyed it. I enjoyed the trailer. I did as well.

We actually did not have a chance to discuss the trailer. I have been getting a lot of tweets that say, can you find the wolves in this picture? And it's just an image of us standing in front is the adaptation of David Grant's nonfiction book and stars Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert De Niro, and notably Lily Gladstone, who has sort of emerged since the premiere of this film as not just one of the key stars, but I think one of the key figures in the narrative of the film. A lot of people already tabbing her for Best Supporting Actress nomination. I'm really looking forward to it. 91% on Metacritic, which is the most stringent of the rating sites. Yeah, but that's even there. So Metacritic is an aggregation of all the critic reviews. And I have to be honest, were I to go to the Cannes Film Festival, I would not be crashing

out a review 90 minutes after the premiere of any of these films. And I really feel for any... It's a cool job, but a hard job. You might be forced to do that with a podcast, though. I mean, that's an interesting thing. Yeah, no, that's fine. What the reviews are out of festivals is fascinating because there's many different kinds. There's the tweet, right? There's the Insta tweet.

But is that on Metacritic? That is not on Metacritic. Although maybe it should be incorporated. I don't know. You already spend way too much time thinking about your tweets that you send out after screenings. I don't really do those anymore. You do somewhat.

And you still put the name in all caps. I'm slowly transitioning to a just pod sharing Twitter strategy. Okay. That's the only thing I really want to use it for. Okay. We made a new thing. Here it is. I'm getting there.

I'm getting there. But I hear what you're saying. Once upon a time, I did. Did you share a podcast from the British museum? No, it was on the gates at the gates of the British museum. And when we entered the museum, the tweet went through because I think I got wifi. Okay, great. But we did, we did, we should mention we got off the plane in London. And as soon as we got off the plane, we were escorted by Chris Ryan to the British Museum. Do you think that we should give everyone an update on how our travel together went?

Oh, gosh. You want to just interrupt the Cannes Film Festival portion of this conversation? Well, I mean, you just mentioned that we got off the plane and then Chris picked us up, like our friendly uncle, and took us to the British Museum. I mean, we should level set for anyone who hasn't listened to the Robert De Niro movie draft, which if you haven't checked that out, it's a very normal pod on. There was some discussion of my travel style,

a digression of sorts, a riff. Right. Sean, what was said? Sean historically is not the most social of travelers and particularly, you know, airport attendees. He has been known to put in his AirPods as soon as he arrives at the airport and not greet his closest friends with whom he is traveling on lavish trips.

So I should also add, if you didn't listen to the Robert Jr. podcast, that we discovered sometime last week before we left for Europe that Sean and I would be sitting next to each other on the plane, which was not planned. At least we knew ahead of time. Sean was in the middle seat. And-

Just disastrous. And it was a 10-hour flight. The two of us next to each other. And I just, I'm gonna say now in front of everyone, you were a delight. Thank you so much. We scared you. Yep. And you were on your best behavior.

You brought conversation topics. You brought a good attitude. You offered to, you know, you helped. You strategized as need be. You also, crucially, went along with other people's plans and strategies. You were flexible. And I was really appreciative. The lesson here, as always, bullying works. So if you want to get what you want, be sure to berate people, preferably on a recorded medium. Let's go back to Ken. Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny, this film premiered.

Not in competition, just like Killers of the Flower Moon. This is the fourth Indiana Jones, no, the fifth Indiana Jones film. Theoretically, the conclusion, given Harrison Ford's advanced age. He had an emotional experience at the festival. He was in tears ahead of the premiere. James Mangold directed this film, not Steven Spielberg. I just mentioned on our most anticipated movies of the summer pod that this is on my list. Yeah. This movie has been pilloried by the critics, by the Cannes crowd. It did not do well. There's been much discussion since its premiere, did Disney make a mistake by showing this film six weeks ahead of its release and giving it a 40% score on the rating sites? Were you surprised by this? Not really really i've seen the trailer i've seen snippets of the cgi that was featured in the trailer and that then was uh made fun of

on various social media websites after can there there are some eels i believe uh who don't look real yeah i'm uh i'm gonna hold on i'm gonna cling to a hope that this is just not the right venue for a film like this i i think it's absolutely not though i think that the can film goers and critics need to chill out a little bit because if you keep taking them to task well this whole thing like disney made a mistake and they i mean sure but like at some point you're just not gonna have movie stars at your film festivals anymore and let me tell you the can film festival wants movie stars still okay they they show a lot of great auteurs and beautiful films and they also just like they have a red carpet they have a red carpet with a lot of people and that's part of the you know glitz and the

glamour and the tackiness so So it doesn't look great, but also let's have some nice moments. I agree. It seemed to be a nice moment for Todd Haynes, who premiered May to May, December, which is his new film starring Natalie Portman and Julianne Moore, which got very strong reviews.

And it's a sort of a tabloid celebrity melodrama that has been described as a bit campy, a bit zesty. I love Todd Haynes. I think he's been on this podcast three, maybe four times. One of my favorite filmmakers. And this film was sold to Netflix, which is complicated because there's now a concern that people won't be able to see this film in movie theaters. Right.

I'm not sure. Only North America, right? Only North America. Which is sort of an interesting new... And so they paid a little bit less than they normally do? I think $11 million was the sale price. I think the thinking is that North America allows them to run this film in awards races. Right.

And claim that credit, so to speak. And use the tools of their awards bodies to get the film on the map. But not take on a global responsibility. Right. A larger financial incentive. Interesting. Maybe an evolution

of the Netflix awards strategy going on here. Right. Notable. Just want to say Natalie Portman just absolutely killed it on the red carpet.

Those were my top looks, I would say. Was she in a red dress at one point? Yeah, but also like her daytime photo call. I don't know what that is. What is a daytime photo call? Yes, you do. Because there are always like the casual photos in the daytime that aren't that casual.

You've seen plenty of them. I have some Ryan Gosling fits circa 2012. Exactly. So they have to go in the afternoon and be like, hello. And then they do the premiere at night. But, and even like the airport, like, did you know that the Cannes airport arrival photo is now a thing that's like, then you can like shop the looks on Vogue. If you were a wealthy and successful celebrity, would you call the paparazzi ahead of time to tip them off to like when you run to 7-Eleven? No, absolutely not. But I would be aware at this

point that when I flew into cam um that there would be paparazzi waiting at the airport and i would have my looks ready okay um i'll keep that in mind okay for our return to the states probably the most anticipated movie for me other than killers of the flower moon was the zone of interest which is um coincidentally unfortunately timed to the death of Martin Amis, who is the author of the novel of the book that this film is based on, a great English author.

This is Jonathan Glaser's first movie in many years, and we knew very little about it other than the adaptation. And this is one of the best reviewed movies at Cannes in many years. I've not seen a negative piece about this movie yet. It is about concentration camp workers and World War II and the Holocaust. And it is the banality of evil. That phrase was proffered quite often

in analysis of the movie. I'm very, very excited about this film. I am as well. So another travel update that is related to Zone of Interest is that you have been pretty good at not being on your phone and on film Twitter the whole time. I've been trying. You've been a lovely travel companion. We were at a bar, a Portuguese sports bar in London.

Yes, that was quite strange. I don't know. Chris picked it. Chris did an amazing job navigating us through our jet lag on Friday. We discovered what Chris described, and I can't verify the accuracy of this statement, as the Budweiser of Portugal, which is sawgrass. I don't even know if that's a Portuguese beer. I presume it is, but it was quite good. It was very good. Anyway, the one time where you very politely were like, I need a moment,

was because you were looking at the live reactions to Zone of Interest. And you just very quietly looked up and you were like, people like Zone of Interest. And then we got up and went on our way. That was the thing I was most interested in. I know, yeah. That was the thing I was...

And it came out. Yeah, well, in theory. It may not be nine months before we see this film, but nevertheless, I'm excited about it. A couple of other films. Hirokazu Kore-eda's Monster premiered to, I'd say, mixed reaction. Yeah. Which is notable. That's a couple of films films. Hirokazu Kore-eda's Monster premiered too. It's a mixed reaction, which is notable. That's a couple of films in a row now that Kore-eda's made

that have not lit the world on fire since Shoplifters. The film that I think is tapped by many to be a strong Palme d'Or winner is called Anatomy of a Fall by the filmmaker Justine Triet. She made a movie called Sybil six or seven years ago that I quite liked. This movie was acquired by Neon. Neon, notably the distributor of the previous three Palme d'Or winners, which are Amanda, Triangle of Sadness, and Parasite, and Tatan. So we'll see if they can keep the hot streak going with four in a row.

Controversial, an exciting film. The Sweet East, directed by Sean Price Williams, widely acclaimed indie director of photography. This is his directorial debut. The acidic and very funny film critic Nick Pinkerton wrote the script for this movie.

Stars Talia Ryder, your girl from Never Rarely, Sometimes, Always. Yeah. Is the star, as is Simon Rex. Simon Rex. His big follow-up Back in the mix.

To Red Rocket. Should be an interesting one. Pedro Almodovar had a short film premiere to also quite mixed reaction, actually. The word slight I saw used

in some reactions. That's rude. I'd like to have opportunity to do an Almodovar film. When Parallel Mothers came out, it was during COVID

and not very many people saw that movie, even though I thought it was quite good. I'd love to try to find a way to dig into his work at some point. But this is his Western

starring Pedro Pascal and Ethan Hawke. Looking forward to that. Anything else pop for you at the Cannes Film Festival? No, I think that was the list. I mean, I'm not there. Yeah. I think there's a Pixar film premiering at some point this week. Congratulations. Elemental. Good. Is that right? Will you be seeing that? I don't know. You tell me. Will I be seeing it? I think so, probably. Okay. Let's talk about some May movies. The rest of our conversation here is a bit of a grab bag. So as I mentioned, I do have Julia and Nicole on the show. Yeah, your besties.

Which is just incredibly exciting. Nicole's been on the show before. Julia Louis-Dreyfus has never been on this podcast before. One of the reasons why, she doesn't make a lot of films. She's probably the signature female television star of the last 30 years. Would you say that that's right? Yes. She won like 45 Emmys. Yeah.

She's starred on four television series at this point. Seinfeld, Old Christine. The New Adventures of Old Christine. Veep. And I'm manifesting a fourth show that doesn't exist. Are you counting the MCU as a television show? Well, I guess you could. That's a whole other podcast. Let's show that doesn't exist. Are you counting the MCU as a television show? Well, I guess you could. That's a whole other podcast.

Let's save that. Let's put that somewhere else. Nevertheless, she has appeared in some movies over the years, notably National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, in which she played one of the bratty neighbors. Very funny in that movie. Her last best movie, I think, is Enough Set, which was a Nicole Holofcener movie that was released 10 years ago

and is the last film role of James Gandolfini. Wonderful portrait of middle-aged love and the confusions therein. This movie is a kind of spiritual sequel to that movie that's also about a sort of like two-thirds life love and a marriage in progress, so to speak speak it's about a woman named Beth who is an author and memoirist and her husband who is a therapist played by Tobias Menzies and her sister who is an interior designer played by Michaela Watkins and her husband who is an actor played by Arianne

Moyette from Succession and their son who's an actor whose name I forget. Owen Teague? Is it Owen Teague? It's Owen Teague. And their mother, played by Jeannie Berlin. So just a bang-on cast. And Nicole Holofcener's script. And she is one of the funniest screenwriters of the last 30 years. What did you think of You Hurt My Feelings?

It was delightful. So I saw this at Sundance. And this is one of my most anticipated films of the year because I love Nicole Holofcener's work. And I think enough said, I don't think I put it on my 10 best movies of the decade, which in retrospect is a mistake. I just absolutely adore that movie. As does my dad. That was a real, I don't know, except he thinks that she should have dumped James Gandolfini at the end, I guess. Anyway.

Spoiler alert for this 10-year-old film. I guess so. But also, is that really what it's about? I don't know. Good point. Was there a stinger in that? I left. So, yeah, I thought this was just incredibly charming. I think it is maybe slightly narrower in scope, but also for the people to whom it applies.

It's a very rich text. The premise, as few spoilers as possible, is that louis-dreyfus is a memoirist who is working on her first novel and she overhears her husband tobias menzies telling her brother-in-law that the novel is very bad that he hates the novel it's also it it's at a paragon sports in union, which is in front of the Sox, which is a very funny scene because they're very passionate about Sox, you know, and the movie is just full of skewering details like that. But so it's about someone who, I guess it's a sort of betrayal in a way, but it's really about, I guess, like self-confidence, self-belief, and then how you see yourself in a marriage versus how someone else sees you in a marriage and how that informs how you navigate both the marriage and your place in the world. So if you can even relate to that a

little bit, if you define your life by your job or you have any sort of ambition and you think it's important that other people buy into that, and particularly your spouse, then there's a lot to be mined there. Yeah, I think you may see this film described as low stakes. That may be true. I don't really think it matters. I think if you have ever been in a serious romantic relationship, you know that there are the good lies and the bad lies. And the good lies are always complicated because you don't ever want to feel like you're lying, but sometimes you feel that you have to. And so there's a very unusual exploration

of the power dynamics in relationships in this film. The film isn't entirely built around that premise. There's actually all of these stray strands and the supporting characters each have their own little arcs surrounding the movie. The movie actually, and I talked to Nicole and Julia about this, it kind of resolves its primary conflict, like two thirds of the way through,

because it's almost like an acknowledgement. The issue at hand is modest enough that it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to, you know, arrive at a thrilling conclusion. It's just like, this is the true angst and anxiety of life. And you're usually over it in a day.

You know what I mean? It's not a lifelong wound that you have to heal from. And I thought that even just that idea and feeling comfortable enough in telling a story that is this scaled down, I enjoyed it. I appreciate it. Not to mention, I mean,

Nicole Hollis is a hilarious writer. I mean, the jokes are so good. There's an executive producer joke in this movie. It's so funny. So funny that she goes back to it twice. I've thought a lot about the dispensary joke. It's great.

It's really funny. And it's also, it's a little bit about all of the characters are sort of facing the lowered stakes of their life in one way or another

and coming to terms with that. And it's various forms, which is, I think, something that most people can relate to. If you reach a certain point in your life, okay, and you're like, okay, so it's not going to be this. I also saw Menzies' character as a therapist in the the film and i saw his character as a bit of a rebuke to a lot of your suggestions of therapy for me recently you know they're like what if you get the wrong therapist i mean he's a little checked out that that is a real possibility there are a lot of not good therapists out there i mean this is a different podcast not about you going to therapy about therapy in art and how it is kind of ruined art,

but that's okay. Therapy is, if it's good, it's great for people. There's a really nice through line in Hall of Center's movies. In almost every one of her movies, there's either a person going to therapy or a therapist. And the kind of analysis of analysis is something I really like in these movies. I would highly recommend this. This is one of my favorite movies of the year. I had a lot of fun. It's 90 minutes long. It just goes down easy. It's something I really like in these movies. I would highly recommend this. This is one of my favorite movies of the year. I had a lot of fun. It's 90 minutes long. It just goes down easy. It's tremendous.

Okay. So I haven't seen the next film we're going to discuss. Right. You and I each are doing one book report, which is an intentional pun because my book is my movie is Book Club, the next chapter, the sequel to 2018's Book Club. Do you know how much money that film made? Over $100 million. Over $100 million.

That's right. And that's a good time to say that I went to see Book Club 2 on a Tuesday afternoon, thinking that I would be the only person there. And I walked in, and I had forgotten about Senior Tuesdays and I was delighted to find a packed theater full of primarily people over the age of 70. Not to, you know, age cast, but there we go. They had a delightful time. I had a decent time being with them. So here, Book Club 2 stars Jane Fonda, Diane Keaton, Mary Steenburgen, and Candice Bergen, all of whom are deserving of as much money as they would like at this point in their lives. The basic premise is that after the events of Book Club 1, the pandemic happens. This is a piece of pandemic art? Yes. Well, the first 10 minutes are them keeping up doing their book club via Zoom during the pandemic and updating you on the last five years.

Okay. Candice Bergen is a judge and she retires during the pandemic. Mary Steenburgen. Is this like a sliding doors Ruth Bader Ginsburg situation? She is Supreme Court Justice? No, she's not. Can we not? Do we really need to do that right now? I don't know. Let's think about democracy.

No, it's not. Mary Steenburgen is a chef and her restaurant, the best restaurant in Brentwood, as her friends call it, incredible stuff, closes during the pandemic, unfortunately. Speaking of unrelatable characters. Yeah. Um, Diane Keaton is, does not know how to work zoom. That's her primarily bit during the pandemic.

Is that her job as well? Uh, no, I don't, I don't know that she has a job. She's living with Andy Garcia. Um, who,

yeah, who she met during the first film. I liked their romance in the first film. Yeah, it was lovely. And it seems to be going well. And then Jane Fonda is being Jane Fonda and making body jokes. But then at the end of the pandemic, she and her partner, Don Johnson, who's named Arthur in the film, decide to get married. So the ladies plan a trip to italy that they've been wanting

to take for 50 years uh in order to to as a bachelorette type thing okay and and then hijinks and sue um there are four books discussed in this movie here's what they are normal people by sally rooney okay which they read during the pandemic a woman in the window by aj finn discussed in this movie. Here's what they are. Normal People by Sally Rooney. Okay. Which they read during the pandemic. A Woman in the Window by A.J. Finn. You may remember the Amy Adams adaptation

of that film. Disastrous. Absolutely disastrous. A book with a purple-ish cover that I did not recognize because they didn't discuss it. It just kind of like arrived

and they all pulled it out of the package. It kind of looks like The Midnight Library by Matt Haig which I haven't read. But anyway, if anyone wants to let me know. And then The Alchemist by Paul Coelho,

which is the animating inspiration for seizing your life and finding your destiny and getting married or not getting married as the case may be. Interesting. I can imagine where it goes from there where do you think it goes uh i would presume that jane fonda realizes that she prefers independence and that the film ends with her not getting married she sure does but can you guess what happens after that she meets someone new no she loves she loves don johnson and she wants to stay with don johnson forever but not under the

strictures of marriage yes and so Don Johnson does say the words will you not marry me um okay okay I mean if you're

80 years old why do you need to get married anyway I think that Jane Fonda has demonstrated to us that she deserves independence you have a complex

um relationship to the idea of marriage and property rights I think is this informing your your your feelings about this character's decisions You have a complex relationship to the idea of marriage and property rights, I think. Is this informing your feelings about this character's decisions? What Jane Fonda wants, I mean, Jane Fonda, have you read Jane Fonda's autobiography? I haven't. I would like to.

You gotta read it. Why did she, in our culture, turn into Samantha from Sex and the City? Because I think she started taking a lot of roles like book club. But that's like, why did that become her? Because I think that she signed a prenup before she married Ted Turner. And also she has a lot of legal bills to pay because she is protesting all of the time because she's getting arrested, you know, fighting for climate, which is awesome. She's a real one. She is real but

i i do feel that between this and 80 for brady and the many other jane fonda movies that there are financial incentives and once again i would like to say jane fonda deserves as much money as she would like to be paid do you recommend the film book club well you didn't guess what happens after jane fonda agrees to not marry Don Johnson. More happens after that? Because it's at the wedding. They're literally like at the altar. I'm like,

it's like a graduate situation. the judge is officiating after having had a one night stand on a, like a gondola in Venice with a very

chic British man. Okay. Which is good because otherwise Candace Bergen gets the short shift in these movies. Is Mary Steenburgen still with Craig T. Nelson?

Yes, and he arrives in Italy. She was like, don't. He had a heart attack and she's very worried about him. Shouldn't do international travel. But then he does and she's like, she realizes that she's like, oh, I wish he were here and our life isn't over. We have more living to do.

I wish I'd brought him and then he shows up at the wedding uh it's very it's lovely and romantic she also had a thing where there was a guy um jiami who she went to sure um it's chef school with in italy 50 years ago definitely definitely plausible they go to dinner in venice yeah courtesy of Candice Bergen's chic boyfriend. And it's Gianni's cooking school where they go. How does he look? Still quite fetching 50 years later? Not really, but they still have...

A spark. Yeah, they have a spark and they make pasta dough together. Also, Candice Bergen's... They make pasta dough together? Yes. Disgusting. disgusting well that's what they do instead of you know but they're chefs digging their hands so it's sensual well yes exactly it's sensual and it sets up several it sets up several ipad um like text message jokes about like kneading dough or whatever um that craig t nelson sees because you know they're all connected

on the cloud another reason to never connect your devices to the cloud. I want to make two more notes. This is more than I bargained for on Book Club, the next chapter. At one point at the dinner that they all go to in a lovely garden in Venice,

Candice Bergen's Paramore performs a version of Laura Branigan's Gloria in Italian. I see. And they dance. I love that song. And anyway, no. So I've told you what happens to everybody else.

They're at the altar. They decide to get not married, but love each other forever. And then what happens, Sean? I honestly don't know. Diane Keaton and Andy Garcia get married. I didn't realize they didn't get married at the end of the last one.

They pick up that they, it's like a pickup wedding. They're like, well, everyone's here. And also, crucially, Diane Keaton tries on a wedding dress that's like very Annie Hall, Diane Keaton in Italy, while in Rome,

while Jane Fontenot is trying on wedding dresses. And so she's already in the dress. Then they get married. And then I just want to note that Diane Keaton definitely wrote into her contract that she gets the clothes or at least this dress because Nancy Meyers recently posted a photo of her out in the world with Diane Keaton. And I was like, oh, that's the dress from book club too. Let's explore something.

You just explain the entire film. This is ostensibly a recommendation show where we tell people to go see movies. But now you don't have to see the movie. Are you going to see it? I might.

I try to see everything except for 80 for Brady. I'm not seeing that shit. Well, I wanted to talk about it with you. I mean, I saw the first film. I'd like to see the second. I didn't explain everything.

I didn't even, they go to Tuscany. I didn't say the word Tuscany. Did they actually go to Tuscany? There are many other subplots about their European adventures that may or may not parallel our European adventures. And I didn't tell you about them. I haven't read any of the books that they talk about in the film. You haven't read Normal People? No, I've seen the series. Good series. It was a good series. I do like it. Have you read Conversations with Friends?

No, I've never read any Sally Rooney novels. Interesting. I think that you should should read one i've gotten this recommendation many times but it's also i remember i my personal ranking is normal people one conversations with friends two the most recent one three but um my husband read conversations with friends and i'll never forget like he's reading it in bed one night and he puts it down and he just goes is this really what is what women's minds are like and i was like yeah he's like are you really this anxious are like? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, are you really this anxious all the time? And I was like, keep reading, my guy. So it might help you in your day-to-day life. I feel like I'm enduring my complex relationships with women quite well.

So I'm not sure if I need to explain. That's true. It's one of the things we talked about on the airplane. We did discuss that, yeah. You didn't actually affirm my opinion, but that's okay. Well, congrats to everyone listening this far because they don't have to see Book Club, the next chapter. I wanted to explore your compulsion to explain plots of things because you did this about the film The Intern on our last podcast.

It's primarily because you and Chris don't share any of my interests. And so it's like when we come on a podcast and we talk about whatever dumb superhero movie or boys hitting each other or whatever, it's like I've seen the movie. I can hang, you know, but you did not go see book club too. And you don't care about the intern. And that's not true. I quite like it. I spoke about it on the Nancy Meyers podcast. Right. That's true because you love Anne Hathaway. It's just, it's like I have to get you and many of our listeners up to speed so that you can be on my level.

And listen, I don't mind providing that service. You know, I don't expect you to meet me halfway. For the listeners at home, Amanda has now slid back in her chair. She's leaning back. She's gotten quite comfortable. It's a very chic mid-century modern chair your hotel's nicer than mine we're in my hotel room which is uh very strange um okay let's talk about another film i don't think you'll even be able to ably recap the

entirety of the plot of this film do you think you can do you want me to try i think that would be a disservice because this film's not doing well at the box office. No, and it's also somewhat twisty. And I'm just going to say right now, so we're talking about Hypnotic, directed by Robert Rodriguez and starring the one and only Benjamin Affleck. Is he a Benjamin? I mean, what would he be? It's not like Bennifer on the birth certificate. I don't know. Is there another alternative to Benjamin for Ben?

I'm sure internationally there is. Okay. In Boston, in greater Boston, I don't know. Okay. I did not have a bad time at this movie. It's gotten quite poor reviews. I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying that I did not have a bad time.

I thought it was pretty shoddy, but I never got up, never wanted to walk out. I was never angry. I think you can just really feel the seams on it. I do think that, just to give some context, it's about a police detective who kind of wakes up from a sort of stupor and learns that his daughter is missing and has to go on a quest to go find his daughter. And he encounters a man who is able to control people's actions with his mind and his instructions played by the great William Victor. And the film then sets off on a very twisty somewhat Christopher Nolan inspired somewhat David Mamet inspired journey through unusual and confusing worlds yeah I there is a lot of inception in this film which to everyone in the world but you is a recommendation even though it makes inception look like a logical and you know an

explanation a very reasonable straightforward explanation of how like a how to make an omelet or something you know um but it it has that vibe and that's sort of what's going on here and even a couple of visual cues that are very Inception-esque. Though not as well executed. It doesn't look great. It doesn't really add up. The performances are very clearly stitched together as things changed. And so they were in a different movie each day. Just recut.

I didn't care. It helps that I saw it after it had made three million dollars and, you know, was dumped by a studio that no longer exists. It was distributed

by Ketchup Entertainment, one of my favorite distributors. Originally, Solstice Entertainment and Jeff Robinov's company, Stage 8, were putting it out in the world, but neither of those companies

are in great position right now. Ben Affleck did not promote the film. Instead, he went to the premiere of his wife, Jennifer Lopez's Netflix film, The Mother, which you watched on the plane. Yeah, I don't have much to say about it. It's like a sturdy action movie starring J. Lo, who's pretty good, but is not asked to do much other than be a very physical performer. But um that there's an interesting contrast between a movie like this which is trying to have a lifespan in movie theaters and not succeeding although this movie did play can i don't know if you saw that hypnotic it did i don't know if it premiered but it had a screening i can um against the mother which

are films that are in a similar of a similar type and in in fact, like, Nikki Caro is the director of The Mother. Her most recent film was the Mulan live-action adaptation for Disney. Robert Rodriguez, I think his last movie was Alita Battle Angel. So two big, you know, IP-driven action pictures for big studios. And then their next films were smaller,

slightly more stripped-down kind of action character studies that are somewhat disorienting in which a lot of information is withheld from the audience. And they're kind of the same, you know, like I think The Mother is slightly better mounted than Hypnotic, but there's a kind of like, there's actually something a little bit soothing about these kinds of movies. You know, they're both kind of work a day, like this will just get you through two hours of your afternoon kind of movies. You know, they're both kind of work a day, like this will just get you through two hours of your afternoon kind of movies.

They're not very emotionally or intellectually interesting. I thought Hypnotic had kind of a great ending. It had obviously a very clear twist that is sort of telegraphed,

but the way that the twist is executed, I thought was pretty fun and extremely visceral. And so, I think it's just worth seeing for that, just for the kind of last 10 minutes, the conclusion. But I just, as listeners of the show know,

I think Ben Affleck is incredibly funny and bright. I think he's very, like, actually smart. Most movie actors are not very smart. And I think he's actually very smart. And he is consistently cast as a dim guy or guy who just woke up from a head injury. And I don't know why. Like, I don't know why that's like, I think it's maybe because of the way that he's characterized

in the tabloids that there's a kind of like, oh, gosh, I'm just getting my coffee. And or maybe there's some sort of like, he's always dazed. I don't know what the why that is, the archetype that he's cast into or why he takes those parts. But I just, I don't want to spend an hour and 30 minutes looking at Ben Affleck, be behind everybody, you know, be like back a step.

So yeah, the actual act of watching the movie, I found a little bit unsatisfying, almost entirely because of that. I was glad to see Ben Affleck, you know? Okay. That's,

that's generally how i feel i liked this better than the film the accountant oh absolutely not really oh no way well they come there are a lot of like fight scenes right it's not just that yeah and isn't burnthal in the accountant damn sure is i mean the action is way better in the account oh no of course. But in an Affleck-ness. At least he got to have a little regular guy in this. Yeah. I believe his character in the account is autistic. And so there's obviously

like a performance in that movie that doesn't do what I was just saying either. But I think the accountant is like a much more unusual and interesting script. So I like that movie a lot more personally,

but I also think it's like, it's just like a slightly elevated actor in every single role in The Accountant. Right. As opposed to in this movie. But also it's, whatever. I thought this was not good, but I had a nice time.

It doesn't seem like very many people are going to see it. It probably will get sold to Netflix and then just stream and everybody will watch it. Okay. Doesn't seem like that will be are going to see it. It probably will get sold to Netflix and then just stream and everybody will watch it. Doesn't it seem like that will be the case? Let's talk about Still. I'm always a little stumped on the Apple movies. Because not a lot of people have that streaming service. And the apparently calamitous third season of Ted Lasso maybe isn't going to help that.

It is. I watched two episodes. You did. Is it calamitous? Absolutely. I will not be finishing it. Okay. That's good to know.

I do think Apple has had an interesting hit and miss trajectory with movies. Some stuff has been really interesting. Of course, Killers of the Flower Moon, one of their films. It seems like their theatrical play that is kind of forthcoming is really exciting. We talked about the F1 movie with Brad Pitt that's forthcoming. The George Clooney, Brad Pitt reunion films. Also, I believe that's also Apple. Yes, Napoleon.

Napoleon is coming soon. So a lot of great stuff on the horizon. Still also played out of Sundance. This is the Michael J. Fox documentary directed by Davis Guggenheim, who directed an Inconvenient Truth, a really good U2 music documentary, one of the foremost documentarians

the last 20 years. I like this movie a lot. I think it's very successful, even though it's very traditional. The reason for that is it has Michael J. Fox in it. Of course, Michael J. Fox has been dealing with Parkinson's for some time, and the movie goes to great pains to show how he is, how he communicates now, and also how he physically lives his life. But it also shows the arc of his life and career. And he's like there's some recreations in the movie that are just kind of unnecessary. I would agree. We don't need to be put into those spaces. But I think I maybe didn't quite realize how connected I was to the Michael J. Fox theme park. Experience?

Yeah. Were you a big Family Ties person? I certainly watched it. I was a little young for its heyday. So was I, but I think it was on in our house in a big way. I think my parents really enjoyed it. I was a little young for its heyday. So was I, but I think it was on in our house in a big way. I think my parents really enjoyed it. Yeah. It had, I mean, it was very similar to the Cosby show and a handful of other shows in the mid eighties where it was just like, if you didn't watch this, you weren't an American, you know, it was a 40,

50 million people watching these shows every week. And the Alex P p keaton character then became sure extremely um iconic in a very specific way like the kind of strident young yuppie conservative yeah uh and then it's funny kind of how he has bobbed and we bobbed and weaved for the next 15 years in his career um but i i mean i was i was following him through like the movie greed through spin city. Like I was, I was kind of always interested. It was really interesting watching this documentary. Like, yeah,

obviously the back to the future movies are so hugely important, but I was just kind of like, Oh, he's like a member of the family, you know, in a way that it was not in front of mind consciousness for me. But because of the age we are and when we started watching TV and movies, it's like a very familiar like sitcom presence who was just in our lives. And so I agree with you.

It was very affecting. And what was affecting was watching him just look directly in a camera and talk about his experience. And also, I believe he was diagnosed with Parkinson's in the early 90s. And so that's almost 30 years of not just dealing with the physical aspects of that, but dealing with it emotionally and his perspective on managing the illness, but also just his outlook on life. Yeah, absolutely. And communication, because it affects that, and communication and his comedic timing was such a central part of his performance.

So it was very moving. I also, I really did find that the behind-the- scenes aspects just of how he lives his life to be very raw and very vulnerable and fascinating. Yeah, there's this really interesting exploration of just his day-to-day physical therapy to kind of keep himself upright every day that I thought was, I'd never quite seen anything like that before. And of course, not everybody has the opportunity to do that. Michael J. Fox is quite wealthy and successful but um it's interesting too because he the film goes to to great pains to show the lightning quick wit that michael j fox had and how that probably elevated a lot of the projects that he was a part of there was a kind of improvisatory aspect to a lot of his roles that he could,

if you see him on talk shows, you can see that he is very socially adept and charismatic and quick and smart and funny. And he hasn't lost that. I mean, in the interviews with Guggenheim, he's really funny. And there's obviously something sort of like discomforting and a little bit sad because you see that he is struggling in some ways. But also, you know, it's so hokey to say like he's an inspiration. But he's pretty inspiring. I mean, to be enduring. You know, I had an Uncle Hood Parkinson's and it was just terribly painful to watch somebody go through that in real time. And it's such a debilitating condition.

So I really liked this movie. I mean, again, I don't know how many people can watch it, but I thought I was checking out. It's such a debilitating condition. So I really liked this movie. I mean, again, I don't know how many people can watch it, but I thought it was worth checking out. The fifth and final film. This is your book report. So we mentioned Neon earlier. Neon has a new movie.

I believe this movie debuted at the Toronto Film Festival. It's called Sanctuary. It's the second film from a director named Zachary Wagon. And it's a two-hander. It's shot all in one hotel room. It certainly looks like a COVID production. Doesn't feel that way though. I think it's blocked quite beautifully. Here's the premise of the movie.

The heir to a hotel empire and the dominatrix who has primed him for success battle it out in a hotel room as he tries to end their relationship. Now, Christopher Abbott and Margaret Qualley, the two stars, you might imagine that if someone is about to become the leader of a hotel management company, that their dominatrix is going to say, I know a lot about you that I could reveal to the world, so you need to take care of me and pay me properly. This incredible battle of power transpires between these two people. I've been

team Margaret Qualley. I think Margaret Qualley, she might be the chosen one right now. Wow. She consistently takes on parts like this that are basically just like, her and Mia Goth are just like, let's see if we can out-crazy each other

in every movie. But in this movie, she's totally in control and captivating. Christopher Abbott also is an actor who often seems dumb and he's very well suited to that in this character in part because you know flips the power dynamics where this woman who is a dominatrix and theoretically not as well educated or not as um uh doesn't have as many advantages as abbott's character knows a lot more about business and the world of business and so that plays to her advantage as she begins to negotiate what she can get from this man and who doesn't truly understand how like payroll

works um i i thought this was really clever and really good and not quite the like lol a dominatrix like there is some aspects of that, like BDSM in the movie, but really only in the beginning. And it's then much more this sort of very stagey kind of back and forth series of monologues and interplay.

But really good. Two interesting stars. What are your Christopher Abbott thoughts? So he was a pivotal character on the television show Girls. That was filmed in Brooklyn when I was of a similar age living in Brooklyn. And that character was very realistic and pretty annoying. And so I possibly hold that character against him. I see. But I love margaret qualley

did you see the photo of margaret qualley and lana del rey at coachella just hanging out no but they look so cool they just and they they looked like great hangs i was like oh great i'm i'm excited for both of you uh so i'm i'm open to this okay Okay. I genuinely don't know if you'll like it. Okay. I tend to be resistant to stagey. Yeah. To people arguing about ideas in one room for a long period of time. That might not be the right word.

Are they arguing about power? Does anyone say the word trauma? No. Good. Okay. No, it's not like that. There's a little bit of like, why is Christopher Abbott's character the way that he is, which is to say needing to be a sub.

Yeah. But it's not like because daddy did this to me. Right. Yeah. Okay. Let's just let's talk about quality for a second. Okay. So Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

Great. My Beloved Stars at Noon. Oh, yeah. You love that. How are you feeling about your Joe Alwyn stock these days? Well, it was perfect just at the moment when I realized that I thought he was a pretty good actor. He got dumped by Taylor. So that makes sense.

That actually tracks just as I came around to someone in the Taylor orbit. Yeah. He was ejected. Okay. I think he's going to be fine. Do you? I think he has great and good gifts. And I think she should stop shading him in public.

That's my take. Wow. And I'll take the slings and arrows on that one if I need to. Okay. I like the content, you know? Margot Qualley was on The Leftovers. Was she?

Wonderful show. Yeah. Which season? She was Jill. All the seasons. I watched the third season of The of the leftovers but i don't remember that yeah she's on all the seasons she was also on fossy verdon is ann ranking oh yeah i remember that in that show she was on a show made that i didn't watch but everyone said was good on netflix i'd like to watch that here's what's coming up poor things yeah yorgos lanthimos movie. Driveaway Dolls, the directorial debut of Ethan Coen.

Very exciting. She's also in End, the other Yorgos Lanthimos movie. I'd like to tell you about another movie that she's in by Coralie Fargat, who made a great horror movie called Revenge. It's called The Substance. It's a body horror movie. Here are the stars. Demi Moore, Ray Liotta, and Margaret Qualley.

Wow. Bang. Okay. This may be Ray Liotta's last film this was how long has this been on the shelf then I believe it was shot over last summer okay huge fan of Margaret Qualley Sanctuary I think you should check it out it'll probably be available in like two weeks okay what's

coming up what are we excited about? Little Mermaid? Should we go this week? Here? Yeah. No. It's absolutely. The weather is beautiful

here in Stockholm. What if I woke up tomorrow 9 a.m.? No. You can do that. I gotta go see the ship. Oh, the Vasa. Yeah.

Yeah. You wanna tell the listeners about the Vasa? Well, I haven't been yet but I would love to tell them my secondhand knowledge, which is okay. So what century was this ship built? I'm looking it up. I want to say it's the 16th, but let's take a look.

Okay. It's the 17th century. 17th century. They build a ship. It's a grand ship. It's Sweden's Titanic. And it sets out on its maiden voyage. And after about 90 seconds, it becomes very clear that it's not a seaworthy vessel and it sinks into the bottom of the harbor. And then because

of the salinity of the harbors in Stockholm, the ship is immaculately preserved. And once technology catches up with the ship, it is able to be removed wholesale from the harbor and is now encased in an indoor museum, as Sean informed me yesterday, where you can just see the whole ship. That was a fantastic description. Thank you so much. Of the museum. Thank you. Exceptional. You're going to go see it.

I've already seen it. This is my second time here in Stockholm. Sure. I've never been to Stockholm. And everyone says you've got to go see the ship. So I'll see the ship and maybe you'll go to the cinema. I might. I did get a chance to go to BFI South Bank while I was in London. And I want to say I had an exceptional experience there as well. The Prince Charles was fantastic. BFI also great.

I saw a restoration of 1927's The Unknown, which is a film directed by Todd Browning, who people may know as the director of Freaks and Dracula, those iconic films. This is a film directed by Todd Browning who people may know as the director of Freaks and Dracula those iconic films this is a silent film starring Lon Chaney and an extremely young Joan Crawford it was terrific

there was a live piano accompaniment to the film and had the time of my life and so we got to Sweden a couple of days later me, you and C.R.

and C.R. landed and he was like should we go see Wick 4? One of the Swedish theaters. And we didn't, but I would like to. So maybe by this time next week, I will have seen Wick 4

with Swedish subtitles. That's what you're going to do tomorrow morning. You know what? I don't know why. I've been here. This is my like 14th day in Stockholm in my life.

Okay. So, you know, I'm having a great time. I've also been extremely social by my standards. That's true. You're hanging in. Every night, staying out till the last drop. I know.

Yeah. You know, I'm in good spirits for the most part. I'm getting a little mean, which is how you know it's gotten wrung out. It was interesting how you were so lovely in London. Thanks. And then we hit Swedish soil and you got a little touchy. Yeah. And then you didn't sleep very London. Thanks. And then we hit Swedish soil and you got a little touchy and then you didn't sleep very well.

Yeah. And then it's, but you're reigning it in. I bounced back and I think I'm on the upside now. I got a full night's sleep for the first time in five days. That's huge news.

Me too, actually. Yeah. So you and I are set to thrive. You know, we're surrounded by many of our Spotify colleagues as well. So better be on my best behavior. Any closing thoughts on the world of movies here in Europe? Well, we didn't talk about Wes Anderson's movie. Oh, yeah. That eluded me. Which comes out, you asked what's coming next. And after The Little Mermaid, which the less we say about that,

the better until we do a whole podcast about it. Like while jet lagged, which is just an incredible scheduling thing. Listen, guys, if you want good attitudes and vibes on this podcast, skip that episode. I'm going to tell you right now. That's my advice. I want people to have what they want. If they've listened this far,

they deserve some respect. And I'm just not going to be in a good mood because here's what's happening to me. I'm having just the most wonderful time. I miss my family very much, but I also haven't traveled alone in like 10 years. I drinking coffee by myself on the first morning, I almost started crying. Um, I just like, I've never experienced such joy. So I am flying home to see my family who I love very much. I'm really excited to see my son, but it's a 17 hour travel day. And my husband has earned the right to go to a wedding elsewhere. So I'm waking up jet lagged,

solo, solo parenting with a guy who learned how to climb on tables while I was gone. So I just, and then I got to go see Little Mermaid. So I just want to let everybody know that's the energy I'll be bringing. I'm personally absolutely dying without my family. I'm like in a completely wrecked state. And since I've already been to Stockholm, I received a video this morning in which my daughter said, love you, dad. So I need to get home soon.

And I'm going to see Little Mermaid with an open mind and an open heart because maybe it's a story. Well, you're bigger than 10 men, Sean. Thank you. Appreciate that. Not Swedish men though men though they're very tall they're so tall there's so many really hot young parents with children roaming around sweden and it's making me feel uh lesser in my role as a parent i don't look like that when i'm out and about i forgot to mention that there's some really interesting

parent content in my conversation with Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Nicole Hollis Center. In fact, the fear of what we do to our children was a primary theme of that discussion. Oh, God. You don't need any more fuel on that front. I need you to listen to it. Of course I'm going to.

She read you a poem. Julia Louis-Dreyfus read a poem. And so just listeners, please tune into that conversation right now. I'm delighted to be joined by Nicole Holofcener coming back to the show and Julia Louis-Dreyfus. Hi, guys. Hi. Nice to be joined by Nicole Holofcener coming back to the show and Julie Louis-Dreyfus. Hi, guys.

Hi. Nice to meet you. Nicole, you and Julia have not worked together in 10 years since Enough Said. And I'm wondering if there were other things that you tried to do in the interim between this movie, or were you waiting for just the right time to reconnect? I was actually sitting in a dark closet just for about 10 years waiting for the right opportunity to work with Julia again. I knew she was in there, but I just couldn't be bothered to help her out of it. Yes, I did lots of other things in the meantime.

You know, directing television, directing another movie, writing different things, but just sort of waiting for the inspiration to write the right script. And it took a long time. And then Julia was there waiting because she hasn't been doing anything either. I was going to say, would you guys talk and say we want to do something together again? Or how did that work? Yeah, you seem like your friends yeah we would talk and say where's the movie that's what she'd say she's like write something i did i'm trying i'm trying we had such a thing i'm saying it to her again except we there's a writer's strike so i'm not really saying it but as soon as the writer's

strike is over she's got to get back to work Can you guys tell me a little bit about the second life of Enough Said? Because I felt like that was a grower and over time more and more people saw it. And now I feel like for many people, it really resonates for people, especially at a certain stage of their life, at least for me. Yeah. Yeah. Where the hell were they when it really mattered? Hey, what are you talking about? That movie did well. It did do well, but it does seem to be having a second life. A lot of people tell me they just recently saw it and they loved it. And that's fantastic. I'm glad it has legs and that it holds up. Where did You Hurt My Feelings

come from? It feels like very painfully specific and true. Well, it is painfully specific in some ways, but I'm not going there. In general, it's just a creative person's nightmare. And I often wonder who's lying to me and who's telling me the truth. And if they are lying to me, do they still respect me? And can I live with the fact that they might be lying to me about my work? And am I my work? And et cetera. And it just seemed like a really rich topic to explore. Even the end of the movie, I mean, I don't have any answers. I don't know what's going to happen. But it was fun to explore it. Julia, do you have that relationship to, say, the people that are close to you trying to understand how they actually feel about if I need guidance about a project or an edit or a performance or a script or whatever. And I rely on them to tell me the truth. So the idea of this film in which, I mean, I don't think I'm as needy as Beth is, but I do have a creative thing going on that's similar to hers. And I have certainly a many decades long marriage that's working.

And so the notion that if my husband was completely lying to me, I would fucking flip. Yeah, I understand what you mean when you say that it's a possible nightmare for a creative person. But you both also are potentially, you know, publicly criticized or at least can engage with the idea of criticism because you make work that is meant to be consumed publicly, art. And I don't know what your relationships are individually, but I'm always curious to hear filmmakers and actors like, do you read your criticism? Do you care? Does it hurt your feelings? Does it, what about for you, Nicole? Do you look at what people say about the work that you do?

Yeah. I mean, I've been really lucky in the review world. I've certainly had some bad ones and they hurt my feelings or frustrate me or make me sad or mad. But for the most part, I've been very fortunate. And because of that, I will read them. If I made a movie that was getting mostly bad reviews, I would certainly stop reading them. I don't think I would do that to myself. But I still do some masochism occasionally and reread a bad one and yeah they stick you know those sting of course i'm a person and uh uh i'm not um you know i'm not leveled by them um but i sure feel something about them yeah what about you julia you've been in the public eye for a long time do you look look at the criticism of, let's say something like when Veep starts, do you say,

I want to know what critics think of this? Yeah. Veep was really well-reviewed. So maybe that's, so I would read good ones. There does, but I kind of find my, I cut myself off a lot because, you know, you can, it's important not to give good ones and bad ones too much weight. And, and, and I don't know, I just want, I need to be careful, but I find for myself, I need to be careful about it because it feels dangerous after a period of time. That's how I feel. So I look kind of like with one eye and then I'm like, okay, that's it, enough. I think, yeah, okay. They say the word positive in parentheses and it's like, okay, good. I don't need to read more. They liked it. You both do a lot of things that are so well-reviewed, though. So it's probably not as painful for you as for some others. I agree. Yeah.

Julie, what did you think when you read this script? Did you feel like a sense of She had the notion of this couple with this betrayal, as it were, between them, and is fucking fabulous. I am so in on that for real. And I've had a similar experience. I had the same experience when I first heard about Veep, as a matter of fact, because it was pitched to me as this unhappy female vice president. And I was like, bam, I got to do that. And I had the same feeling when Nicole told me about this notion of, of a woman whose spouse is lying to her about her work, that it just got me by the, like, like inside of my ribs pulled me up. And so then the script was just, did not disappoint. And the script was beautiful and I could immediately envision it and wanted very much to sink my teeth into the work of it.

Nicole, I thought the movie was really interesting. And I was wondering if maybe you could talk about that moment after you pitched that core concept to julia because the primary conflict which you basically like see in the trailer is obviously the heart of the movie and consists of maybe 40 minutes of the conflict but that's not really the whole movie there's a lot that happens before it and a lot that happens actually after it gets resolved in a way and i don't think i'm spoiling it by saying that and i'm kind of curious how you thought about making more of like a snapshot of the lives of these people, as opposed to something that's so premise bound. Right. I wasn't sure how the rest of the movie would play out and if there would be a lot of people in it. I just started writing and taking,

well, I just started taking notes about different characters. Michaela Watkins was not her sister in the script until Michaela came on. It's a weird process because so much of it does end up tying together. And that always surprises me. I don't outline my films. So it really surprises me when, oh, well, the kid's a writer, make him a writer and let's end it that way. And it's full circle. But I didn't know it was going to end that way. I had no idea until I kind of got there and realized, wow, I really set this up and set up other things.

And I was aware that I was writing a movie about people at a certain age who were questioning what they did for a living and how valuable their careers felt to them or not, or how well they were doing in their careers. And that's always fun. I mean, you get a bunch of messed up people. It's fun. But I really don't, I don't, I don't know if I'm answering your question, but did I? Yeah, you did. I think I just, it felt unusual and different in a good way. Like it just didn't feel like it was stuck on some sort of sitcom-y idea or like, you know, wondering about something being resolved that actually it was like much deeper than that um but i did have you know a draft where it lasted

much longer the conflict kind of went on and on and how seriously she took it and how um you know should she move out should she you know would she sleep on a couch? Would she, you know, all of that. And, you know, it just felt artificial to drag it out to a degree that I didn't feel was honest. And, you know, some people might feel that, you know, it should have stuck longer. But, you know, what am I going to do about that? So often I feel like when you're watching a movie like this, they do drag it out and then you you're 98 minutes into a film and you're like okay we know where this is going just figure it out but anyhow i'm wondering another hour right exactly when you when you are at that writing stage is this is it understood that this movie is going to get made or

do you then have to complete the script and then get people to sign on like i don't know if you guys say you're going to do a movie together. Is that enough to get the movie made? What has to transpire? A lot. A lot. You know, no, when I'm writing something, I just hope it's going to get made. And I kind of assume it will because I've been so fortunate so far that I'm not crazy. Like, it probably will get made. I don't know when. I

don't know who the other actors are going to be. I don't know how much money I'm going to get, but I think it might. So that's good because it inspires me to make it better and better all the time as opposed to thinking, ah, what's the point? But it's never easy. I mean, this was a low budget movie shot in 22 days. I mean, you know, I've made a bunch of movies and that's the fewer, that's the less, how can I put this in an articulate way? I never had so few days to shoot a movie.

And yet it worked. It did. Julia, how do you think about taking on movie parts because obviously over the years you've been doing a lot of series work not not a ton of movies on your cv but every time i see you in a movie like this i'm like i would i would go for 10 of these 20 of these like how do you think about picking movie roles um well mean, the beginning of my career was very much in television, and I was raising my kids at the same time. So for a long time, it was untenable to think of really pursuing a movie career in my downtime because I didn't have, I didn't have the, uh, I didn't have the brain space and I, and I didn't have the time. I couldn't leave home anymore than I was already doing, you know? Um, and then, you know, it's funny because over the last couple of years I've been making actually a number of movies and um it's been really

an adventure and um and in terms of picking projects it's really just a gut instinct you know you read a script um and if the if it if it kind of grabs you the way Nicole's work does, um, then you, you jump on board if, if you're able. I mean, I, um, it, it's an instinct, you know, I look for something that's maybe I haven't done it before. It's not derivative. It feels fresh. It's something I would want to see if i wasn't in it like this

movie i would go to this movie if i wasn't in it and then i would be absolutely gripped with jealousy that i wasn't in it but um so i don't know i can't remember the question but i think i might have answered it i know i'm tired sorry. I know. I'm tired. Sorry. No, that's okay. We're generally a lot more laughter and stuff. Sorry. I know. It's cruel what they do to you to make you answer the same 13 questions consecutively every 30 minutes for six hours. No, these are good questions.

No, they are good questions. For real, they're good. You don't have to lie to me, guys. It's nice to see you both. I am fascinated by Tobias Menzies' character in this movie and his relationship to vanity and male middle-aged vanity, which you never see in movies in quite this way. Maybe, Nicole, I don't know if you want to weigh in on your personal life, Julia, how you feel about this, but Nicole, talk about that concept. I just learned what frownies are, so this is all resonating for me. Do they still make those?

I think so, yeah. Oh, wait a minute. Are those those things that go here? Yes. Yeah, you sleep. They were like, you put them here and you sleep with them like they freeze your face. Correct. Do they work?

Has anyone tried them? I'll let you know. I'm starting to get them. Report back. Okay, I shall. We'll meet back here in six years. Well, now there's Botox so frownies are just unnecessary um i love that in the movie that like there's a casual relationship to oh julia's character gets botox

no one cares that's fine everyone does that but when a man says it there's this like emotional breaking point that is so interesting you know the the um it was it's to tobias's credit that he took this on because um there were actors who didn't want to deal with this, the vanity aspect of this character, which I think is amazing, actually. And I love that about him. He's really, he's a brave actor. He'll do anything, don't you think isn't that your your take on it nick i mean lately he was like and there were people who were um fighting against this part of the movie um yes and it was like nope nope it's staying in tobias what do you think

he's like oh are you kidding you know i i it has to be in it has to be in yes um and that was great and maybe it's because he's young and handsome he's not threatened um of doing that i mean some of the actors you know were much older and didn't want to were too vain to portray a vain person um so no, Tobias was amazing. And I think despite his youth and handsomeness and lack of wrinkles, I think he really pulled it off because it's in your head how you feel about yourself. Yeah. Also, it's just uniquely original. I've not seen that kind of character in a movie, even though it's clear that that person exists. One other thing I wanted to ask you about is

the film's relationship to the idea of therapy. And I was going back and looking at your other films, Nicole, and this comes up a lot. No, it certainly does. And this one in particular, I thought was so interesting because you were like suggesting perhaps therapy doesn't work or there are bad therapists or for some people, it's just not the right answer

and i thought you very it almost felt like a summation of a lot of the ideas you've been exploring in the previous movies how did you know how did you think about it and why was it important in this movie um well first first off i thought it would be a fun job and fun scenes to watch really i mean looking for an occupation for this fella that just landed. And I know I've had therapy scenes in a few of my other movies, but I guess I'm not done with that.

No, I hope you're, and I just want to interject. I hope you're never done with that because there's nothing that makes me laugh more. It's so good. It is so fucking funny. It does not get old. It doesn't get old. There's so many things to so fucking funny it does not get old it doesn't get old there's so many things to explore in a therapy scene i have so much more to say about it well i'm i am on board with that and that's our next project maybe you should play a therapist julia that might be the

shit to play a therapist i'll work on that that. Okay. Yeah. But yeah, and I have friends who are therapists. So now that I've been in therapy so much and regarded my therapist in a certain way or fantasized about their lives in a certain way, and then I have all these friends who just completely killed that fantasy of them having no problems. Of course they have problems. They're people. And that doesn't diminish their ability to be good therapists, I think. But it's just endlessly entertaining.

That relationship is crazy. It's just crazy. It's crazy. It's just crazy. It's crazy. It's completely crazy. I wanted to ask you both about parenthood too and how much you see in the relationships. I'm like a new parent. And so watching parents with older kids work through how close they want to stay to them and repeating some of the mistakes of their lives throughout time and thinking about the, I mean, for me personally, the little things that you do right now, all I worry about is, am I doing the wrong thing and fucking the kid up?

Yeah. So to see it drawn down 20, 25 years later is a little scary. Um, but your baby back, put it back. I mean, I wouldn't,

I wouldn't if I could, but I, I worry that I should. I, nothing is more important to me than my children and being a mother. So I am kidding. But yes, we fuck them up no matter what. They're talking about us in therapy no matter what.

And I'm close with my kids. Right, Julia? You're very close to your kids. And I'm very close to my kids too. What's that? Is it Philip Larkin poem? They fuck you up, your kids and I'm very close to my kids too what's that is it Philip Larkin poem they fuck you up your mom and dad you guys know what I'm talking about no okay keep talking I'm gonna find it okay and you know my mother has made mistakes I love her I forgive her and I know how easy it is to do something wrong. And I've, I've, you know, my kids will tell me what I've done wrong and how I've damaged them.

And actually I feel privileged that they tell me. Um, yeah. I mean, isn't that the nature of all, I mean, it's, you fail. Let's just look, you will fail. So give yourself a break yeah yeah you up listen to this i know this isn't a poetry reading but this is by philip larkin listen to this they fuck you up your mom your mom and dad they may not mean to but they do they fill you with the faults they had and add some extra just for you. But they were fucked up in

their turn by fools in old style hats and coats who half the time were soppy stern and half at one another's throats. Man hands on misery to man. It deepens like a coastal shelf. Get out as early as you can and don't have any kids yourself. Oh, that is painful. Painful. Isn't that good? It's great.

And the name of it is, is this be the verse. This be the verse. Yeah. Thank you for that. How old is your, how old is your kid? She's about to be two.

Oh, it's a great time. You're not fucking her up. She'll be fine. What's her name? Her name is Alice. Thank you for asking. Oh, very good.

Just don't let her fall off a cliff or eat something. I mean, that's really emotional. Just eat something bad. Please let her eat something. One thing. Don't let her eat something bad. Not a marble. I'll protect her from cliffs.

It's hard here in Los Angeles with all the cliffs we have. It's a challenge. I remember when my son, my older son, I was a new mother, and he was just starting to crawl, and we were visiting my parents, and my dad had dropped a quarter on the floor. And I saw that quarter, and it was like it was a fucking rattlesnake. I was like, don't you care about my child? I mean it. Nobody can ever drop anything. He moves now.

He moves. That's what I'm saying. I mean, and Nicole, that's what you got to with remembering things that happened in seventh grade and having them boomerang back to you when they're in their adulthood. I do. I do worry. You nailed something very specific there um so you two are going to work together again you will make another movie you think yes yes yes about a therapist no maybe okay maybe maybe thanks both for your time i end every episode of the show by asking filmmakers

and actors what is the last great thing that they've seen? So take a moment. The last great thing I've seen was no doubt. After sun. Oh, I can't believe that you're saying this. Why? That's going to be my answer. Nicole,

I'm not kidding you. Really? I'm not surprised. I mean, it was a masterpiece. It was, I was wrecked. So sobbing and sobbing i can't even almost think about it it was so beautiful it was just gutting another a24 film i might add

is they have good taste also a film that's harrowing if you're a parent it is it's just horrible um and um that's so funny that you were going to say the same thing, but we're the same person. So there you go. Yeah, we are. We're kind of the same person. Yeah. You felt individual to me today. Julia, Nicole, thank you for your time. Good. Thank you so, so much. Really appreciate it. thanks to Julia Louis-Dreyfus thanks to Nicole Holofcenter thanks to our producer Bobby Wagner

who is not here Bobby we miss you we love you we'll see you soon Bob next week on The Big Picture Amanda and I we are going to see The Little Mermaid

we will return from Europe unless our travel plans are changed and we all move here thank you to Sweden thank you to London thank you we all move here. Thank you to Sweden. Thank you to London. Thank you to the Prince Charles cinema. Thank you to FICA.

Thank you. Did you thank the nations of Sweden and England? I don't know. Did I thank the UK? Thank you to the UK. Okay. Thank you, Winston Churchill,

who I didn't get to thank while on British soil, but I did see a really big statue in front of him. How are you feeling about colonialism at this point? Not good. Okay. Thank you to the embrace of Negronis across Europe and the UK.

The slouch has only deepened in this chair. Your legs are up on the arms. You're fully enmeshed in the fabric. Thanks to the listeners of this show. We'll see you soon.