The Big Picture - ‘Knock at the Cabin’ and Shyamalan Double Features, With M. Night Shyamalan!

Episode Date: February 3, 2023

Elric Kane and Brian Saur, hosts of the ‘Pure Cinema Podcast,’ join Sean to talk about ‘Knock at the Cabin’ and provide some double-feature recommendations for our favorite M. Night Shyamalan films (1:00). Then, Sean is joined by Shyamalan himself to talk about his career and his new film (1:08:00). Host: Sean Fennessey Guests: M. Night Shyamalan, Elric Kane, and Brian Saur Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you're lost in the darkness, look for the pod. Specifically, the Prestige TV podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network, where we're breaking down every new episode of HBO's The Last of Us. On Sunday nights, grab your battery and join Van Lathan and Charles Holmes for an instant reaction to the latest episode. Then head back to the QZ on Tuesdays for a deep dive with Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin. From character arcs to video game adaptation choices, story themes to needle drops, we'll parse

every inch of this Cordyceps-coded universe. Watch out for mouth tendrils and follow along on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessey and this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Knock at the Cabin, the 15th feature film from writer-director M. Night Shyamalan hits theaters this weekend. And I spoke tonight about his exciting new thriller.

Please stick around for our conversation at the end of this episode. Listeners of the show know I'm a big fan of Shyamalan's films. It was great to finally speak with him. But first, we wanted to have some fun with Shyamalan's movie. So I'm very happy to welcome two of my favorite podcasters, Elric Kane and Brian Sauer, the hosts of the Pure Cinema podcast, who are joining me today to talk about Knock at the Cabin and provide some double feature recommendations for my favorite Shyamalan films. So gentlemen, one of the reasons why it's so exciting to have you here is because you have seen everything. And I look to your show on a regular basis to find new films. Now, sometimes you talk about movies I've seen before. Sometimes you talk about what's playing at the New Beverly out here in Los Angeles.

But you put me to shame. And I think of myself as a genuine cinephile and a genre fan and all of the things that you guys do so well. So it's fun to have you here. Do you want to just break down what Pure Cinema is for anybody who doesn't know already? Yeah. I mean, we've been, what is it, six years? About six years. Coming up on 2017.

So, yeah, six years. 2017. We've both been podcasting and doing other things like this. We kind of bonded over a love of Danny Perry's books about cult cinema. And that was kind of the impetus of us going, oh, we could podcast together. I had been just doing horror stuff and I needed to break, stretch that because I have so many movies I love. So we started this podcast. We did it for a couple of years, just more or less on our own. A couple of different networks we joined along the way. And, you know, just talking about deep cut movies, cult movies, movies we love. We always do because one of the things that would bother us is if everything's always

ranked, you will, if you do podcasting long enough, you will have to talk about the same damn movie. And we wanted to talk about whatever we're feeling. And we're video store guys. Yeah. Both work the different video stores. The other thing too about the top five, which no disrespect at all to any podcast that does top five is you can always get somebody coming in what about this yeah yeah and the five get it all the time i'm sure it's the

social media space is all about that when when it comes to top five well let me add my and that's fine it's it's a conversation but our point being five films because it's just anything we want to talk about is fair game could be a great movie could be a medium movie but is interesting to talk about which is definitely something that may come up later today but yeah it's just this idea that we can talk about whatever we want

and we do as you say we try to go for the deep cuts some of that comes from sort of again the roots in Danny Perry who is a guy that really taught us both how to appreciate both high and low art and how to really you know be a seeker you know that's that's kind of what i think we try to do and not to waste our time on stuff that we don't like so we never do it like we just have never spent an episode even talking about a movie that we're not interested by it

doesn't mean they're all good but we have to be excited by it because the internet has plenty of that for you out there. So we did that for a couple of years and then we got picked up by the New Beverly to become their kind of official podcast, which was super cool. And part of that was this idea, hey, why don't we do a thing where we like open up the calendar with guests

or without guests and just go through all the movies. And so now that's the two weird streams. I'm sure it's confusing to new listeners who are like, wait, one time we get this episode where you're pairing movies or you're doing double features, whatever it is, and then the next you're running down a calendar. But that's kind of how we've been going. And that calendar gives us a chance to not program because when we're podcasting, we're programming, right? And that's a lot of work. When you do that, we're just receiving and we have to go hunt these movies down. It's fun. Yeah, I was fortunate to be on an episode, a calendar episode in December. We had a lot of fun. And honestly, it is very similar to my experience doing this show, which is, it's just an excuse to see things I haven't seen. And when I find something I really love,

put a spotlight on it. You guys are really, really good at that. And so I encourage anybody who's listening to us now to check out your show. M. Night Shyamalan's an interesting artifact of movie culture for us to talk about here because he obviously has big roots in the kinds of films that you us to talk about here because he obviously has big roots in the kinds of films that you guys often talk about. Some, not necessarily cult, but certainly genre,

certainly horror, certainly thriller. There is something kind of admirably disreputable, I think, about his cinema. And now as he enters his 50s, he's become kind of like a hallowed figure in the Hollywood firmament. And yet when you watch his movies, they're still pretty gnarly and they're still very genre and still very locked into a long lineage of, you know, Hitchcockian thrillers and all the way on through the last 50, 60 years of movies. I'll start with you, Elric. What's your relationship to Shyamalan? Well, he's a big swing guy. And what's interesting is like all of us, we're all close in age. We're all knocked out by what wasn't his first film, we all thought it was with six cents and and talk about you know it's a hard act to follow whatever you do uh i was dropped off in the blue world uh unfortunately i never made it so

after i saw all of his films in the theater up until lady in the water and never saw another one until old in the theater after lady in the water and it wasn't anything i didn't even hate lady in the water there's just something about the narrative around him that had me and i think i was you know it was just after film school and i was like ah you know and then probably the next couple are ones i wouldn't have necessarily been in the bag for uh what i'll say is what's been interesting about this just in short is i've got this whole new appreciation for the craftsman and the films we're going to talk about today the ones we we went back to, I kept writing him going, oh my God, it's like I forgot the twist.

I forgot how he gets there, the way he uses camera, especially the movie we're going to start with. He's one of the last great camera storytellers, which wasn't part of my narrative in my mind. I agree. It feels like that has really come to the fore with Knock at the Cabin,

and we'll talk about that a little bit. Brian, what about you? What's your relationship to Shyamalan? Yeah, no, it's similar to him. I mean, Sixth Sense blew me away. Total surprise. Had heard nothing about it. Went in and just was like, what just happened?

And got caught up in that whole phenomenon. And then sort of followed him through. And between Signs and Unbreakable was really hugely impressed, as were a lot of people. But then, you know, I've come to love, we'll get into it, but things like The Village, which at the time was a bit derided and not so popular and has become truly one of my favorite films, is actually a touchstone for my wife and I. We talked about it in our first phone conversation ever. Wow.

You know, so Shyamalan, in a way, has a lot, some deep roots in me, in that, like, my wife and I both appreciate his filmmaking and the kinds of movies he does. And Knock in the Cabin is, to me, like I think I said to him after, I know it's based on a source novel, but it feels like his kind of movie. And that's not meant in any way to put him in a box. But if it is, it's a box that I like to go into. I do, too. It's interesting just how, I guess for lack of a better term, famous or renowned he has remained. I had family in town last week.

My dad, who is not really a movie guy per se, and I had to interview Shyamalan while he was in town and I was letting him know, like, oh, you know, I need to prep for this conversation. I'm really looking forward to this. And he named like five of his films and he had a deep awareness of his story. And like he entered at a time, I i think when an auteur working in this way in the studio system could

still become a kind of brand name and he's retained that even though he has had some significant lulls and elric like when you bailed is kind of when i think a lot of people bailed during that quiet period he he did some interesting things mostly unsuccessful in my mind it's about 2015 or so when he really makes a big comeback. We'll talk about that comeback when we get into double features. Let's talk about Knock at the Cabin. Yeah. This is, I think it's really the first big release of 2023. You know, we had Megan and Megan did quite well. I liked Megan. I know you did too, Elric. I'm about to see it. I'm very close. I'm excited. But Knock at the Cabin,

you know, as you mentioned, is an adaptation of a novel by Paul Tremblay. Here's the rough sketch of the story. So while vacationing at a remote cabin, Eric and Andrew and their daughter, Wen, are home invaded and held hostage by four strangers wielding weapons who demand they sacrifice one of their own to avert the literal apocalypse.

The movie stars Dave Bautista, Jonathan Groff, Ben Aldridge, Nikki Mookabird, Kristen Cooey, Amy Quinn, Rupert Grint, and that's pretty much it. That's the cast. And they are all operating in one small space. This is a deeply confined movie, and it is at times terrifying, and it is incredibly impressive in terms of its execution. I liked it quite a bit. I would say that I have not read the book, but the film takes a strong diversion from the book's ending. And I think that that will be divisive as with all M. Night Shyamalan movies that he tends to do divisive endings. Elric,

what'd you think of the movie? Well, I read the book when I think the first week came out, cause we'd had Paul on our show back in the day and I loved the book and I read it in a cabin and my number one thought as I was reading it because I read everything as you probably do is like can this be a film yes reading books for pleasure it doesn't exist and uh I was like I don't think I could adapt this like in my head I was like I don't know how somebody would visualize this and I kind of sat on that thought for when I heard M. Night's name come up it made total sense it was like oh yeah of course he is these are the themes he could access and get into I feel like when I'm watching this do I love the movie? I don't know if I love it

I think it's on a craft level I think it's one of the best films he's made directing wise with a performance that's just stunning that we'll get to and I think just in terms of it's a sustained note, sustained really well and that might actually be a help because when we look at Old

if Old had had like a banger ending I would look back at that as a movie that I think it's incredible. But the ending was such a low for me that it makes you forget the film. This film doesn't have that problem. This film is like, and the divergence from, I didn't really remember. I was trying to remember the ending. So for me, I think a lot of people might, depending on when they read it, you know, it might not matter because it made sense to me where he went with the story and it didn't feel like a big twist or something. It felt organic to what we were watching. What did you think of it, Brian? Yeah, no, I enjoyed it too.

I don't know, again, if it's, I'm short of loving it necessarily, but really well put together. Cast is great. Everybody's solid, you know. I really found it, the way that it built, pretty cool just in terms of like setting up this idea of, I don't want to give away

too many spoilers but just the idea of is this real or not? Is the apocalypse coming or not? And immediately my pairing brain was going into like what works

with this movie? What's something like and I sort of came back to Jeff Nichols' Take Shelter was one that was like oh yeah this is it's similar in terms of

the family theme I mean obviously they're different films but just this idea is this real or not? Is this in is Take Shelter was one that was like, oh yeah, this is similar in terms of the family theme. I mean, obviously they're different films, but just this idea that is this real or not? Is this in some people's heads or in the case of one person's head? And so that was cool to kind of just think, wow, I like these kind of movies. Now, do I come back to them a lot?

Not necessarily. And that to me is actually one of the things I look for a lot in movies these days. I'll watch them, I'll enjoy them, but is it something I want to come back to? That's the kind of stuff I pick when we talk about pure cinema, whether it's a great movie or not. Is it something I want to come back to? Probably. I mean, it's a little bit of a downer. No, no big spoiler. It is. I mean, it's an incredibly intense film. I think it's really, really well paced. I think I agree with you. It kind of holds the tension for about an hour and 20 minutes

where you're like very locked in into that key conundrum of is this really happening? I think it's a film that probably doesn't work if it does not have Dave Bautista as its star.

Definitely. I was not like, I've seen him, I saw him in Blade Runner, all these movies, and I'm like, yeah, no, he's solid. Not for a second

would I have thought he could have done what he does in this. He is the heartbeat of the movie and there's something about the juxtaposition of his body into that small white shirt and and his background like they are in contrast and it creates for this fascinatingly gentle giant performance yeah that has changed how I view that actor and I love that it's pretty impressive what he's been able to do of course he was a professional wrestler and he has become this kind of like um almost like an object of power for auteur filmmakers.

And he kind of seeks out the Villeneuve's of the world to work with them. He, of course, is in the Guardians of the Galaxy franchise where he's gotten a great amount of acclaim. He's a very thoughtful guy. And I think he sought out Shyamalan to be a part of one of his movies. And he's perfectly cast here as Leonard,

who is sort of the leader of this foursome that enters this home and needs to in a very calm way explain the most dire of circumstances and he has this incredible empathetic energy that almost like a sweetness while also being deeply menacing that I've not seen in very many films I think he was sort of like Night of the Hunter like there's a very short list of kind of performances like this where there's something alluring and charismatic, but deeply troubling also operating simultaneously. And if you don't have someone like this in this role,

the film, as with all of Shyamalan's films, is written in a slightly stilted fashion. And that is almost his hallmark at this point. His dialogue is sort of famously showy written in a slightly stilted fashion. And that is almost his hallmark at this point. His dialogue is sort of famously showy and feels almost inhuman at times. Sometimes to the point of parody with one movie we'll talk about in a minute. And I think if you don't have somebody

who you're locked in on, and especially the way that he shoots the film, and I'd love to hear from you guys about this too, deep, deep extreme closeup on every character's face in a way that I've never seen before using these sort of like, um, distorted and old lenses to on 30 and 35 millimeter to create this sense of like disorientation around the film and, you know, moving the camera in a very confined space in a very slick way. The blocking is really amazing in this movie. And so by having a couple of centerpiece performances and, you know, Groff and Aldridge

as the, as the couple at the center of the story also are shot the same way and are forced to basically be in terror and pain for the entirety of the film, which is a very difficult kind of performance to make. I was really impressed. When you said craftsperson earlier about Shyamalan, what did you mean? Well, it's just that you remember, I think what has hurt him is the reputation that you're going to be the big twist guy and that's impossible to live up to for a whole career, right?

So it makes sense that there's going to be lulls and films that don't quite work. But going back to the early films, I'm just watching these films going, they're so well put together and they're put together

in a way that I'm forgetting where they're headed, even though I've seen these movies. And besides Sixth Sense, outside of that one, almost all the twists uniformly, I had forgotten an element of them. And it was such a great feeling to re-watch and in this one when you're talking

about those close-ups i'm thinking like these are so to burn the faces into the memory so you know what could be lost to to say you need to look at this we're here so you see us right that that seems to be part of it reminded me a bit of hateful aid in that way in the confined space the depth by having somebody super close somebody else in the back which which you know you have to almost shoot these things to get it out of a stagey manner uh but it's just it's the most films feel covered and that's what the word coverage is right this feels so specific to keep building the tension and he's in control of it with the camera and that just when i say it's rare i just i i've noticing less and less of it every year with movies and especially straight to streaming, you know, material. So it's nice

when you get reminded, no, no, I'm making the movie. I'm going to show you something. Yeah. He has a, he has a really precise vision. He worked with, uh, Jaron Blaschke, who is the cinematographer for a lot of Robert Eggers movies. And so if you've seen the lighthouse, you can see maybe why he selected Blaschke to shoot this because confinement and mania happening in a small space. They have something in common there. What did you think of how it looked and how it felt, Brian? Yeah, no, I definitely felt that stuff.

I felt the close-ups. I think sort of building on what you said, it's about the humanity What is going on with them? And not allowing them to be necessarily totally reduced to some kind of, as you said, mania. Those close-ups really go a long way. The performances, obviously, too. The faces, the way people express themselves. and it was there's just a really fine line that that the movie walks i think pretty well where you're just like do i think that person's crazy or do they just have a weird energy that i would probably have if i was in a situation that i had bought into this whole you know so it's just it really played well through the construction and the performances and the close-ups and everything all that just kept helping the build for me one of the things i liked about it and i haven't read the novel, so I don't know if this was an element of it,

but we really live in conspiracy times and we live in message board times and we live in the time when strangers can kind of fuel our anxieties and our paranoia. And the film is like as good a document of that as I've seen. Like even if the movie doesn't totally work in exactly the way that you want it to,

it really nails that sense of like, we found each other in QAnon, for example. There is obviously like thousands of people have become devoted to outlandish and absurd and dangerous ideas just because they need something to believe in. And this movie like really taps into that sensibility too. Is that an aspect of the novel? I didn't recall that. And it felt to me like I got the feeling it's more prescient now than probably even when the novel was coming out. I'm sure there's an element of it, but I think the idea of it would be very hard to make for me to believe people showing up and trying to tell me a conspiracy, right? I don't think almost anything could do it except for seeing the visions or seeing the violence that could happen. And that brings up

probably the most interesting thing about the movie when we talk about him directing the movie. And it's the choice to use offscreen space. And that is an art form that is like, you know, very 60s and 70s movies use it so great. It's so purposeful that the camera will leave the action to nothing, to nature or whatever, while something violent happens. Yet the movie feels very violent in the way it like the structure of it. But you're not seeing those moments. And that's that's a choice that makes you go, OK okay so is that also to leave the audience a little bit wondering or is it just because he doesn't need to show that anymore we all know what that looks like

at this point yeah i wonder is it a way to is this a pg-13 film i think it is that was one thing i did notice was i was like oh are they cutting it is great use of off-screen space but i was also like oh let's keep this not and it doesn't need it i don't need to see that stuff in fact the the specter of the doom hangs over it even more for me actually when i don't for some reason and i can't even explain that yeah no i i think it's probably a combination of both i think there's a kind of commercial incentive to doing that and i think that there's also an artistic ability to not necessarily reveal there there's some traumatic violence in this movie. He's just a press-on head. He's a press-on guy.

I mean, he might be. You never know. Shyamalan is a student of film. It does have a lot of the hallmarks of his movies. And even if it isn't his best movie, it struck me as a sort of like apotheosis of a Shyamalan movie. It's really a movie about faith and fear and this idea of sort of what do you choose to believe versus how do you choose to sort of persevere in the complications of life? You know, there isn't, it's not quite a twist ending, but there is a critical decision that is made at the end of the film. And that sense of, is this really happening that you guys were both identifying? And also, you know, Shyamalan's an immigrant filmmaker, a non-white male filmmaker in America for a long, long period of time.

And so this confusion of identity and this sense of fear and anxiety, and obviously it's a film about a gay couple too. And so that is sort of baked into this story too. It's all very powerful. It all feels like it's thematically coherent with the kinds of movies that he makes. I had a very similar reaction to you, Elric, about Old, where I was sort of like, this is very locked in for an hour, and it took a real nosedive as it got near the end of the film. But seeing this film alongside that film, it feels like he has really settled into his métier. It's like, this is what I do now. I make thrillers that are 100 minutes long. They have high-toned premises, but they're very grounded executions. And honestly, if he just made 10, 12, 14 more of these, I would just watch them all.

Maybe some will be more successful than others, but I would be just delighted to have a movie like this every 18 months. And it does, I presume this film's going to perform well at the box office, and it feels like that's kind of what he's going to be able to do. And he's kind of self-financing them somewhat.

So he's setting himself up if they do do well, which they have been doing well in that way. And the other thing you said at the start when you mentioned this 50s, it's just like, holy, a filmography like this, this guy should be 73. Yeah. So it's kind of crazy to think, you know, especially on the strength of this, how well

this is put together, that he literally could be doing this for 20 more years, which is just, you know, kind of after with 15 films under your belt. It's pretty amazing. It's remarkable. So let's get into what you guys do. So when Old came out, Van Lathan and I, my colleague here at The Ringer, did an episode about Shyamalan's remarkable. So let's get into what you guys do. So when Old came out, Van Lathan and I, my colleague here at The Ringer, did an episode about Shyamalan's work.

We ranked his filmography. We brokered a deal, as we do on this show sometimes, where we agreed to let certain films sit in certain spaces. So my personal top five is a little different than what we agreed upon.

Yeah. I think as I look at it now, it's basically The Village, the film you just mentioned, Brian. The Visit at number four. Signs at number three. And Signs to me is the real true proper Shyamalan double feature with this movie. It's 20 years ago now, Signs. They really feel like they're in conversation with each other. A family stuck in a house as something extraordinary potentially is going on outside them then the sixth sense at number two and

unbreakable at number one unbreakable has become i think in many people's eyes the sort of like the the overlooked classic like the the sort of like misunderstood second album even though it's not his official second feature and is you know valorized i think for foretelling our superhero future in some ways and also completely subverting it before it even arrived yeah brian brian had to in a sense had to reconvince me to go back to that because i saw that in theater and i did feel that disappointment at the time but also you know as he has 20 or whatever uh and brian was telling me no no you go back and i agree that one that one probably went the highest up the charts for me on rewatch but i've got i think signs is the one that made me go this is masterpiece like signs is the one of his movies where I'm now like and I like that in the theaters but I like that it's entertainment

and I found other layers to it this this viewing and becoming apparent and everything so so how did you guys pick your your five to pair features with because they don't it doesn't perfectly match my five definitely doesn't um well well there was a couple things that came into play one was some of his movies are a little bit similar and And when we do pairings, which, you know, you can call it a double feature. Pairing to us is, again, going back to the video store idea of like, you know, if you like this, you'll like this. Kind of somebody behind the counter saying like this, you might dig this too. Not necessarily watching them back to back. You could.

But so we found that like split for instance and unbreakable obviously there are direct connections but also there was enough there that were like these are we're gonna end up pairing these two similarly so let's pull that out and then you know just bringing in some of the stuff that like i had to talk him into he'd never seen the happening and so i was like you know you you need to see it because I think it's such an interesting movie you know and it's not again not well liked really and and you and I were talking before we even got started about like I don't know if I like it either but I've seen it three or four times and so I I'm still reckoning with that so but anyway so I was like well that's we got to put

that on the list also because it has certain elements about it that we think of both thematically and, you know, in terms of plot that we would use to pair things because the pairing is somewhat instinctive, but it is sometimes just, you know, looking at similar plots and and characters and things that we can sort of go. Oh, it's kind of like this. But so anyway, just kind of turning it over and looking at it from the underside and kind of going, maybe, yeah, no, this could work. So the happening seemed like one that would be fun to pair. That's sometimes how we approach it. Let's talk about that. The happening, you know, Van and I did discuss it a little bit. I'm fascinated by it as a movie.

When it was released, I think people thought it was even potentially a joke and maybe even like shamalan parody self-parody and it isn't a grand tradition of a kind of disaster movie that we've been seeing for the last 50 years from hollywood but it features some absolutely bizarre performances from from mark walberg and zoe de chanel and have you guys heard about the bees that is i mean for me when you open your movie basically with that and him i don't know i'm in for whatever reason i'm just like what is going on he's not the weird

performance i'm zoe de chanel is utterly bonkers it's it's like she's so strange i don't even know what movie she's in when i'm watching and and she kind of comes right into it like that like mark's just doing his best to be a science teacher yes being mr positive calling some kid in the class romeo or whatever uh no what's weird Mr. Positive and calling some kid in the class Romeo or whatever. No, what's weird to me about this movie was that the first 10 minutes or so were fantastic and a movie that it never really comes back to being. It's like everyone's committing suicide in these very graphic, like it felt like a real horror film. And that's what makes the cut to Mark Wahlberg's line so crazy

because you go from this really violent, intriguing premise and then you jump into the school teacher and then slowly you start to learn what's happening and you're stuck with them. The part that I just found so strange was the relationship movie at the heart of this. They had a terrible relationship. I hated seeing them together, the way they talked to each other. And that's actually where I ended up going kind of with my pairing besides the obvious like I went for something because that part I noticed is like, that doesn't seem right. I didn't think about that with your pairing.

It totally is that. It seems a little off. So what is it? Okay. So I actually did enjoy watching it. I do want to say this is definitely not, wouldn't feature in my top five M. Night films, but I thought it was really entertaining. And Leguizamo is actually good in it. Yeah.

He's the one actor who can come away going, no, no, I did my thing. Okay. So I went for, the cool thing about doing our show for a few years, a lot of these will be ones we've brought up because it's kind of our classics. But this is one of the best Australian genre films I've ever seen. I only saw it a couple of years ago.

I highly recommend the documentary, Ausploitation, Not Quite Hollywood, where you'll find a lot of kind of good leads in there. This one's called The Long Weekend. And it is so atmospheric and dread inducing. It is about a couple whose marriage is not in a great place. And they're kind of arguing before they even go. He's like, well, we're going to go to the beach.

We're going to have a holiday. And she's like, and he wants to camp and she wants to stay in a hotel. He drives her out there. They're already fighting. There's clearly been an affair or something behind this. So this was part of my pairing was, okay, we have this couple. They get out to this beach and then it becomes an absolute ecological nightmare. The way they have mistreated each other or neglected each other is then basic.

The premise is they are then like, they throw some trash on the ground. They kill, let's say they kill a seagull. Whatever they do, it all comes back tenfold. And it is actually scary. Like it's rare that movies like this would actually scare me. So it's somewhere between nature runs amok, not just animal attacks, because the wind is against them,

the weather, spiders. And I'm from New Zealand, so when we talk about Australia, everything in Australia can kill you. Everything. In New Zealand, we have a couple of birds who can't even fly. Australia, everything has got teeth. The birds have teeth. And it becomes this very, it's not just animal tech. There's some other abstract element to this movie that is encroaching on them. And they're coming apart at the seams too. They are very unlikable,

which is like unique to see a couple that neither of them do you really get behind, but you're watching the dissolution of a marriage and in nature, literally coming to take them. And it's, there's something about the droney sound design. This one holds up not just as, oh, that's clever. It's actually kind of terrifying. And I think M. Night would actually, if he hasn't seen this, I think M. Night would really be up his alley as a film. So highly recommend

Long Weekend is from 1978. And it's written by this guy. More than the director, the writer, Everett DeRoach, is worth going down the rabbit hole. He wrote Patrick Fortress, which is another gem and then road games he wrote the original story so he's kind of to me like the australian exploitation writer interesting okay that's a great recommendation i do see that the film is available on youtube i don't always necessarily recommend that but that is one way to see it uh what about for you brian what's your

what's your pairing i went uh apocalyptic i went went with Jeff Murphy's film from 1985, The Quiet Earth. Because the movie does, in the back half, I'm talking about the happening now, have a sense of isolation and how many people are dying, how many people are left. Quiet Earth has really got a cool setup in that it's got Bruno Lawrence plays this guy who we see wake up in his bed. Is he in a dress? No, he puts the dress on later. The only

foul I'm going to cry here because I love his choice is as the New Zealander. He's picked the New Zealand film, but this movie is so great. And Bruno Lawrence is one of those names that probably doesn't even really land in this country. But if you go back through 70s cinema, he's kind of like our guy. He didn't do the Sam Neill. He didn't ever convert over.

Did you plan this? No. Australia and New Zealand pairing? I'm proud of him. I'll do that to him sometimes. I'll just zing in a New Zealand film under... I'm happy about this. Brian is not from Australia.

You're from New Zealand. He's from Wisconsin. I'm from the Midwest. But yeah, no, I mean, Jeff Murphy is a total Kiwi stalwart. I mean, Goodbye Pork Pie is one of the big, you've talked about that. I never knew about that movie before.

And the greatest Under Siege sequel. Under Siege 2, Dark Territory. Huge fan of that film. Hello. Bogosian, incredible stuff. Yeah, Bogosian's great on that film. Oh, yes. But anyway, it's a great setup.

So this guy wakes up. He's hungover or something. We don't know what's happening. And he starts, he goes out onto the street, eventually realizes there's no one around. It's one of those

kind of apocalyptic things. And eventually, he encounters another woman around. It's one of those kind of apocalyptic things. And eventually he encounters another woman, and it sort of becomes them living together, and then it's sort of like, what happened? Them trying to sort of figure out what happened, and we start to figure out why things are the way they are, and it really builds to an incredibly cool climax. It's one of those that I really don't want to talk about too much,

because I really think just laying that out there and Bruno Lawrence is just fantastic in it. And it finally got a good release. There's good copies of it out there now. Back in the mid-80s, 90s,

you wouldn't have been able to see this. You could find this on Blu-ray. It's a great Blu-ray but it's on Vudu for free if people want to watch it with ads.

I made note of where we can watch these. That's another thing we like to do is point people to where they can check them out. That's very helpful. Yeah, just because I find that you you know, you can recommend a movie and you can say,

go look it up, but you just are going to get more people if you tell them exactly where to go. We get scolded for not doing a good enough job at that. So I appreciate you coming prepared. But the other side of it, I will say, and sometimes when we go for those super deep cuts, the ones that frustrate people, I will say this. The nicest thing about having a podcast and you're saying is the ones that you bring up that somebody puts it on their radar and somebody puts it out someday. So it's like twofold. You have to dig for those weird ones because if somebody puts them out, movies stay

alive. We love that. Do you want to go to The Visit? Where do you want to go? Yeah, Visit next. Visit held up great for me too. And again, this one held up mostly because even though I knew the final kind of twist, so much along the way I'd forgotten. So much was murky. Great cast. Do you remember the wrapping? Yeah, I did remember that.

I'd forgotten about the wrapping. That was an interesting choice, I gotta say. The Visit is an interesting film. It's sort of the comeback. It is the first self-financed Shyamalan feature. And I believe it's his first collaboration with Blumhouse. And it's a Blumhouse-y kind of a movie

and it is shot from the perspective of, is the young boy the cinematographer of the film? Yeah, I think he's his sister's making the documentary.

He's kind of the star of her film. Right, because he's her young, you know, crazy brother and Catherine Han's the mom who's just shipping them all.

And they've been shipped off to their grandparents' house and shit goes awry. Yeah, and they've never met their grandparents before. That's sort of a key thing. Which I believed, even though it's totally, you know what I mean? There's some big swings in it where I'm like,

okay, sure, you've never even seen them. You know what? A couple of years coming out of COVID, I've got an 18-month-old at home. She hasn't met a lot of her family either and I don't know how long it's going to be before she does. So it's plausible. Well, yeah, they set up the Catherine Hahn

sort of split with her parents kind of, I buy that. I know some people like that that have had, you know, just really serious splits with their parents

that if there's a kid involved, they're not seeing them. It's just not happening. So I buy it. But it's, even if you knew exactly where this is going, the execution of it,

even when I first saw this one in the theater was really exciting when the grandma is just walking the hallways and one in the theater was really exciting when the mom the grandma is just walking the hallways and knocking on the door and just some of the weird behavior under the house crawling towards you it was just enough of the kind of found footage actually creepy vibe that I locked into and thought I actually thought it was really good and I was surprised how much I enjoyed it watching it a second time and when I got to the twist

there's a couple moments where like you know just you have this old guy putting a gun as oh just cleaning it and there's just those little moments like you know just you have this old guy putting a gun oh just cleaning it and there's just those little moments like they're very good those two actors really good the grandparents

yeah it's very unsettling and it was a huge success and you know we're here in this room right now talking about Shyamalan I think in part because of this movie oh yeah

so double features yeah Elric you want to go yeah this is the most for me this was the kind of my most obvious at least to me I would put a quick wreck at the top, which is Taking of Deborah Logan.

It's a very good pairing, but it's almost too close. It's about people making a found footage film about someone with Alzheimer's, and it goes kind of hard. But good film. The one I went for is a thing a little older called Frightmare. He was kind of a Brit schlock auteur called Pete Walker in the 70s. And I've seen a couple of his films, and I was a little mixed on them when I first saw them, but Frightmare is perfect pairing with us. Basically a woman is being released, an elderly woman, she's probably a grandmother, is being released from a mental hospital 15 years after she was done for cannibalism and other forms

of murder. And she's totally reformed now. And her husband is vouching for her in small British town. He's going to come back home and a couple of the kids are going to return and make sure everything's fine. And she seems fine, except she starts promising Tara lessons to everyone in the town. And when they come back, she uses a drill, a pitchfork, whatever it is to hack them up and eat them. And her performance is bonkers. She is just so crazy. And if you look this movie up, you'll see her with like a giant drill and a massive smile and you're like, okay, I've got to watch it. So it's a pretty schlocky. And I don't say that about horror in general. I'm a big horror fan. It's actually quite schlocky, but it's still really entertaining. And the reason it has, I think it got a little bit more play was

it was coming at a time where Hammer was the kind of the standard and they didn't really show much. And so this was a way for them to go a little bit more Texas chainsaw, but in England. So it was a little more shocking to people. And I think it gave it a bit of a reputation. Great. I've never seen this one. It's fun.

Like it's a fun, and it really makes sense to the visit for obvious reasons. Okay. Mine's a little tricky, Sean, because there's some direct plot stuff that I'm a little hesitant about, but let's just say... Haven't they seen The Visit?

That's the thing. If they've seen The Visit, then this won't be a spoiler. I feel comfortable saying that anyone listening this far into this episode, having already done Shyamalan episodes, just fire away. All right. So this one is called You'll Like My Mother. It's from 1972. It is directed by Lamont Johnson, who is sort of an underrated guy that I like a lot. He did One on One with Robbie Benson, a great basketball movie. Lipstick, which I think they covered on Video Archives. They did cover on Video Archives. And then my favorite is Last American Hero, which is this incredible moonshine running kid becomes stock

car racer Jeff Bridges movie, which is just fantastic. His best movie in my mind. But this is a really interesting character piece with Patty Duke at the center. She plays a young pregnant mother who we see showing up in Minnesota, very snowy Minnesota, finding her way to this house, this big mansion to ostensibly meet the mother of her now dead. I think they were married i believe they were married yeah and she's pregnant with his child he passed away i think as part of um some kind of wartime stuff uh so she's meeting the mother for the first time and the mother is very strange the the opening bit is she comes to the door and you hear this crying in the background. And this woman says, you've come at a bad time. I'm afraid it was necessary to drown some kittens, uh, before you,

and you're just like, what is she talking about? And I just was like, what scenario, where is it necessary to drown kittens? Anyway. Um, so you're immediately off, like, I don't know what this lady's is deal is. And then it becomes like, is she the? What's happening? And it becomes sort of this mystery and it sort of unfolds in that way and the whole time it's very tense in terms of it becomes almost a bit more of a kidnapping movie I don't want to push too far into the spoilers but

it has a similar tension about it that I thought really worked well with The Visit. This is one of the things that I love about your show is that you guys recommend films like the two films you recommended, but you're both so affable. The most heinous shit imaginable, but you make it sound so sunny

and so inviting. For the last 10 years, I've had to always tell people, especially doing the horror shows, that every horror director I've ever interviewed is the nicest. I know.

They're nicer than most people. It's so crazy, isn't it? It's the Wes Craven effect. I think he always said, yeah, we let it out. That's right. We let the crazy out. One funny thing about You'll Like My Mother that I noticed here is that the production company behind this film is Bing Crosby Productions, which is so magnificent.

I can't imagine what his family was thinking when they produced this film, but that's a great recommendation. Okay, where to next? The Village? Yes, Village next. Yeah, The Village. And again, this one held up. I was surprised how well this held up. There's parts of it that you just, he has, I think there's something in the style of filmmaking itself where he's able to blur what you believe is happening.

And then almost like you were wanting to fool yourself to go along on the ride with him because he's that kind of filmmaker, a fablist or something. I think he's very much, I mean, even The Visit is very Hansel and Gretel and Brothers Grimm. And he's very much invested in that sort of historical version of storytelling. The Village is an interesting example of a phenomenon that is very common for him, which is, one, he has this remarkable ability to keep you saying to yourself, or at least keep me saying to myself as I'm watching, what is going to happen next? Not a lot of filmmakers are expert at that. Some of them are pretty good at it. Some of them are incredibly strong with narrative or tension. But he is just incredible at this.

This film, to me, is a signature example of it. Now, another film that I think was originally, it did very well at the box office and was coming on the heels of three successful films, but was, I think, a letdown. And a lot of people felt like they predicted where the film was going i think if you revisit the film knowing the ending and not having any of that anxiety or of that expectation around the tension the craft of the movie and the characterization and the whole world that he builds it's pretty remarkable yeah um and and i i agree with you what you said earlier brian like it really is one of his best yeah and you look at this this is his strongest cast that he ever had and i mean you just bryce

dallas howard joaquin phoenix adrian brody william hurt sigourney weaver brendan gleason you know i mean it is just a phenomenal powerhouse of a cast and i think that alone is great but like you say i think a lot of people got hung up on that ending and maybe decided, well, I'm never going to go back to that one again. This movie comes out in 2004. My wife and I start dating in 2005. And like I said, one of our earliest phone conversations before we'd ever met in person, this film came up and both of us had seen it multiple times. And really, at that time, it was very much the one that everybody was like, oh, he really shat the bed on this one.

This is not his best stuff. And she and I both were like, no, there's something here we really appreciated and has continued to be a favorite of ours. It's just a tremendously sincere movie about trying to protect yourself from the outside world, which is obviously a huge theme in Knock at the Cabin too. And this one feels even more relevant now too, because it feels like I can now imagine people post-pandemic going, what do I want my life to look like oh i can go choose my tribe and i can set that up it really does if definitely feels more in that and everyone's so good and and they're young too it's always exciting to go back and watch people like joaquin and adrian brody when they're just young and starting out and just really strong presences uh yeah i was surprised how much this was the one

i was probably most worried about like okay i okay, I wonder how this one's going to feel. And actually it felt like, honestly, one of his strongest builds. Yeah, I agree. Okay, so Elric, what's your double? That's my favorite of all my, in terms of like, almost as a double, because what I did, so little spoilers on the village, of course, we have people set in a

past time living community, and at some point somebody ventures out. And if you're in the movie, you're believing that that's when the movie is set. And then we realize this is a contemporary movie and they've chosen this existence. I have to share that because my movie is the inverse of that. And that's why I love this pairing. It's literally the mirror inverse, which is it's called Eye of the Devil by J. Lee Thompson.

Wow. And J. Lee Thompson made a little film called Cape Fear. But more importantly, for Quentin Tarantino fans, he made Kinjite, Forbidden Subjects, which on our final Films by Directors episode was one of Quentin's, and it was the first time watched for me. And it's a very messed up movie.

J. Lee Thompson comes up quite often on your show. I feel like he's the White Buffalo as well. He did White Buffalo too. He talked about the White Buffalo. I mean, A Journeyman and Guns of the Neverland. I mean, a long, long, long, long career. 10 to Midnight. 10 to Midnight, which is a fantastic cult movie.

Often collaborated with Charles Bronson. Yep. Yeah, this was one that had a lot of different directors, had some production issues, like Kim Novak was fired pretty early on and replaced with Deborah Kerr. But this movie got a little bit of a bump. I've been talking about it for years,

but it got a little bump after Quentin's last movie because people were trying to figure out what Sharon Tate was in. This was her first film and this film is, that shouldn't be the only reason to see it. In fact, the most main reason people even know it existed is it came out, David Heming's blow-up came out and they kind of

went back to this and they said, oh, I guess he might be worth watching. And he's young and very sexy in this as is she. It's her debut. So basically you start in a contemporary world. So this is the opposite. David Niven, who's just great casting. He's just to me a guy born in a suit and a cocktail. He's at a nice fancy party with his wife, Deborah Curry.

He's a very successful man. He has kids. He gets this call at this party and they say, you have to come home. Otherwise there's going to be a problem. He tells his wife, oh, it's nothing. I'll see you soon. She gets very curious because she doesn't know this part of his life. So he goes back to this.

It's basically like the village. It's an entire French town that he is, for lack of a better word, the head of, the governor of. And they are all living in a different time period. It's a complete time bubble to the past. They're all basically dressed medieval. And it's a vineyard. And when the vineyard crops go bad

so usually they go well and he doesn't need to venture back but if it goes bad in a dry season he has to come back and get into some straight up wicker man shit and so wicker man being the movie that would be an easy throw around you know very exciting ending this is pre-wicker man but has a lot of the same themes you get donald pleasance when you get there he's just hanging out being creepy as a creepy like papal kind of character. Sharon Tate, who is, besides being sexy and stuff, she's actually a really good actor. And in this film, I feel even more than some of the ones that maybe Quentin was talking about. She has this presence.

She's like weird and trying to get under the wife's skin. So the wife has to come back to find out, hey, where have you gone? And when she sees what he's up against, he's like a different human being, and he's involved in something where there's going to have to be some sort of pagan sacrifice to keep the vineyards going, and you realize, oh, what a cool inverse from the village where we've gone from modernity and we've gone like, why is

this town in the past? I'd love to know if M. Night was aware of this because you could almost see somebody go, ooh, what if I flip that? You can make kind of a cool play on this, but the main reason to watch it actually is the style of the movie. It is, in the best sense,

a 60s, future-looking, like, Nicholas Rogue editing style. Lots of layering. Lots of just very interesting camera techniques.

I just think he did a great job putting this movie together. And it's eerie. It's an eerie film, Eye of the Devil. Love it. Great stuff.

Incredible recommendation. I haven't seen this. I just recently watched Happy Birthday to Me for the first time. So he is suited to terror. That is something Thompson did. Yeah, I'd be curious to know what his dream... I'd love to hear him talk about what was the movie that

kind of defined it. Because maybe I'd guess Guns of the Navarone or something. Or Cape Fear. Some of the Journey stuff, to me, is just so much better than it should be. I mean, his 70s and 80s are fascinating. Anyhow, Brian, what's yours? Also, one of my favorite pairings, too, and you'll have to bear with me when I first name it, but I'm going to go with Southern Comfort. Oh, great movie. This is a Walter Hill's film about, in 1973, a National Guard unit in Louisiana is on maneuvers in the swamps and they through sort of happenstance uh get lost end up borrowing a boat from some

cajuns and sort of accidentally get into kind of a war with them uh and then things start to go bad so now at the outset you're like what could this possibly have to do with the village but i do like this idea of both films feature groups of people in the wild sort of rural settings seemingly cut off from civilization okay then you have both groups of people have a deep distrust of the outside world and are the communities are generally out of time and now in this case i'm talking about the cajun community that they're sort of encroaching on the village is an inside looking out community in question, whereas Southern comfort is outside looking in on the Cajuns that the soldiers don't understand. And then both groups have hierarchical relationships that come into doubt

when dealing with the outside evil forces, um, and conflicts within that hierarchy. Um, and both have a fear of said evil that lurks in the woods or the swamp, whatever. Um, and both have a fear of said evil that lurks in the woods or the swamp, whatever. Um, both films have communities that are disrupted by sudden violence, which turns the direction and the momentum of the groups to an out of control place. You know, um, in the case of the village, there's a deep hesitation about going to the

outside world while in Southern comfort, there's a desperation to get back to the outside world. So it's just this really weird inverse that I noticed that they had. And it's truly one of my favorite Walter Hell films. I really think it's fantastic. I mean, it's another one of those where he was able to finagle some really great casts. And this one is just a banger.

It's Keith Carradine, Powers Booth, Fred Ward, T.K. Carter, Peter Coyote, Brian James. I mean, it's just super deep bench and I just absolutely love it. It's on Roku

and Tubi. It's all over the place. You can watch it anywhere and I highly recommend it. If you like Walter Hill films and we definitely love him on our show.

He's a big, one of the patron saints, I guess, of our show. But yeah, Southern Comfort to me, I was just like, this could work. I think this kind of works. I think how much better the

village would be if Powers Booth was in it. If he was the William Hurt Roll, this movie we'd still be talking about. Try any movie. Powers Booth is gold. He's fantastic. This is the first movie that Hill and David Giler wrote after Alien too. I mean, this is like right in that sweet spot of their rise.

Which is a great segue. You just mentioned Alien. And now we go to Signs. I mean, this is just a banger. Great movie. And what I was most happy about watching it again was I had kind of forgotten. I remembered M. Night's role, you know, but I had forgotten when would we see the Alien. The reveal is so great.

The reveal is so good and so earned. And I like that it's a quiet movie. I love the family. It's one of the last great Mel. You like where we can still love Mel? I know. He can still give great performances, but sometimes it's hard to love Mel.

Yeah. And he's an actor I truly loved growing up. It lets you go back to the time when you did love him. Yeah. He's very powerful in the film. Absolutely. And just as a family, I believe them. Kieran Culkin is fantastic.

Uh, and I'd forgotten some of the, like when the flashback would come to give us that shading about his wife and it hit me and it just built, it just, I really think this is maybe in the long run, it might end up being my favorite of his films. Well,

it's got a lot of great comedy to it. Like he does, he used to do that. And I feel like this is the height of that. And one of the reasons I think it's one of his best is he's able to interject that comedy, mostly with the kids, uh, in a way that you're, and Joaquin, both very funny in parts, just enough to alleviate that tension in that great way where you, you kind of are like, oh, that was nice.

Now let's get back into this really tense stuff. You know? Yeah. I love that. I'd forgotten about the comedy and how funny the movie is. It's very funny in spots. It's another film too where the ending the first time I saw it I was like

is this like a gag? Swing away. It feels so sentimental and so movie magical or at least an attempt at movie magical that I sometimes hold it against it and then invariably I go back and rewatch his movies

and I know not everybody goes back and rewatches his movies but I get use the word earned just now I feel like he is like deeply sincere and means everything that he's trying to say about these films and the consistency over 25 years now of movies I feel much more comfortable with the tone of the endings of the films that he's pursuing now this is like a key example where that when I when I revisited the movie the last hour which I think I was a little bit up and down on the first time I saw it. I was like, this is a huge statement as a film. I mean, like, I'm not a person of faith, but this is a huge movie about faith and a really like convincing and compelling movie about the power of faith that also happens to be a movie about aliens, which, of course, the three of us love. Well, and then the good distinction there is religion versus faith.

Everyone can have faith because that's just a choice, right? And that's what it does for me too because I'm not a religious person, but watching that movie makes me go, it made me kind of want to believe. Yeah, it makes you uncynical. Yes, exactly. And we live here. Obviously.

No, it's a really terrific movie, but you forget the one thing he does it in, he does it in like 100 minutes. And if this movie was made now for Netflix, it'd be 130 minutes. You know, it'd be two hours and a half. And for me, I'm noticing I'm coming out of movies, and I don't even want to push play on certain movies now because of running time. I know. So going back to these, I'm like, no, this is tight construction.

And that's when we say earned. That's part of it. No, you're completely right. Okay, so doubles for signs. Now, you could go in a lot of directions here oh yeah now this was the easiest for me because this is a movie i've just been in the last like i only saw it for the first time a couple years ago and i will talk about wherever i can because it still hasn't got a good release and it is a banger for a banger this is a movie that should everyone should know about it and

kind of similar because you have a director who you know obviously came out the gate so strong and m night and built this expectation another director who, you know, obviously came out the gate so strong in M night and built this expectation. Another director who did that is Eduardo Sanchez with Blair, which he came out of the gate, huge expectations. And if you asked most people who don't have movie podcasts, I doubt any of them have seen another movie by him. To be honest, they they've seen it. They just don't know it.

Uh, and I've seen a couple that I liked here and there. I had never seen a film called altered. It is one of my favorite science fiction films I've ever seen. It's one of the best alien films. There's moments where I can't believe this little banger was just sitting there for me to watch. And it has a lot of similarities. Both of them have an alien home invasion element to them, and both of them are about family. In this case, the family is friends. So it literally opens with this group of friends roaming through the forest. You don't know what the hell is going on. They catch something in a trap

and then they go, we've got one. They put it on the back of the truck and they go to a friend's house. Their friend is different from them. They've all been living like this for the last 10 years, not really advancing. And their friend has kind of grown up and has a wife, has a house. They open up the back and you realize they've caught an alien.

And this alien is not a fun alien. This alien has sharp teeth, has claws, is jacked, is all like ripped. They are actually like really grotesque little aliens. And what you find out, the basic premise, I didn't even hear about this when it came out. So I'm not sure where I was when this movie got released, but I just didn't know about it. They basically open him up and this guy is very resistant to letting them even bring it into the house. And what you find out is that 15 years ago or 10, it was uh they were all probed they're these friends were all taken they're all probed one of their friends was killed by these aliens and they're returned and

they are all screwed up and it's like totally dominated their life so they've spent their entire time just trying to prove that this has happened and it becomes a revenge film they just want to mess this thing up they're so angry so. So it's kind of, it plays with black comedy, but it gets really intense. So they open it up, and obviously the wife's like, oh my God, what is happening? Like, she didn't know about the alien. And it starts messing up the kind of social dynamics.

And as they get into it, what this creature can do, and that's what makes the film so fun, and where it really becomes a banger is you realize, like, they're torturing it and stuff. So it's almost hitting that torture porn moment, but what you realize inside it, it's a bit stuff. So it's almost hitting that torture porn moment. But what you realize inside it, it's a bit of a spoiler,

but I just don't care because I want people to watch it. The execution is so good. It's worth it. He has this like a homing tracking system that they're basically triggering. And now it's like, that means all of them are coming for you now.

If you know, you've got one and you think you're getting revenge, but you guys just screwed up. And it also has the ability to hypnotize you just by look. If you look at it into its eyes for a second, it has, it can mind control, has all these weird little powers, but it's just screwed up. And it also has the ability to hypnotize you just by looking. If you look at it into its eyes for a second, it has,

it can mind control, has all these weird little powers. But it's just this movie I've never once heard someone mention. I had never, like my friend literally invited me,

he goes, oh, I've got this movie that's pretty good, you should watch it. And I watched it and I was like, oh my God. And this was by the guy

who did Blair Witch and it's a better movie than Blair Witch. Like it's much more exciting to me anyway. And it's not found footage so it's like, you know, it's him. I think if this had Like it's much more exciting. And to me anyway, and it's not found footage. So it's like, you know,

it's him. I think if this had worked for him or been successful, you know, we probably would have had a kind of bigger budget to play with after that. Great creature design. And it really would be the most, I'd love if the new Bev would ever put this together signs in this, it would be a good time in the movies.

Cause it kind of gives you the payoff. You won't get from signs. Cause you get lots of alien time. Highly recommend it. I think it was on Voodoo but it's not the easiest, hasn't been the easiest to

find. No discount. I have never heard of this movie. I've never seen it and as I look at it I see the person who shot this film is

Steve Yedlin who is now renowned for being Rian Johnson's cinematographer who shoots everything Rian Johnson does. So very good recommendation. And it moves. So very good recommendation.

And it moves. It really moves fast. I love a movie I've never even heard of. So that's fantastic. Well, mine's a little more known, I think, mostly because it stars Christopher Walken. I'm talking about Communion from 1989 based on a novel by Whitley Stryber

who apparently really had some sort of interaction with an extraterrestrial. And he's, of course, a novelist who wrote things like Wolfen, The Hunger. And Christopher Walken plays Whitley Stryber in this movie. He's a writer who has this remote cabin in the woods and an elaborate alarm system and all this stuff. And at one point, he has these friends over and there's this crazy thing where all these lights come

down and, and it freaks out the guests so much, they just take off. And then he has, again, a home invasion. This actually really pairs with your movie pretty well. That's right.

Because it is a guy who has this interaction. And I still think for my money, the invasion scenes, they're very subtly done, but they are fucking creepy to the point where like it's kind of like check all the locks on your doors in your house when you're a 40 something year old man that to me is a real true sign that something's creeped me out and it definitely has that effect but the idea is that he has this experience and he cannot deal with it

and so he is sort of trying to write about it, but also going to, is talked into going to see a therapist, going to a group where there's other people that have had this experience. And he's just very turned off by that. He's just like, oh man, these people are all crazy, but I'm not, I don't think I'm crazy. And then it's like, is he crazy? We don't know. So it's this very interesting introspective story, but it's also about protecting your family. It has those sort of Shyamalan themes. The ending I don't love quite as much. It sort of slips off the rails a little for me towards the last act. But the opening stuff and the invasion stuff is truly terrifying.

This is a movie I remember from my childhood but have never seen. It's a New Line movie, I think, and I've never seen it before. It played on TV a lot when we were kids. And I feel like this is the movie most responsible probably for how we all view aliens and people who believe in aliens now like it feels like it's it's shaped culture but because it was a book too and he was a respected person yeah and I think that's one of the frightening things about both ghosts and aliens is if you really had an experience like for you at least you 100% believed it and you seem like the same person and no one believes you what do you do with that yeah does that just push you into being some sort of freak of culture or do you hide it or and that's

one of the reasons i wouldn't want that experience just because i wouldn't you know you you want one friend who you would actually believe we're already alone enough yeah but there's a lot of probing in that movie too so that's your thing yeah definitely um yeah really great walk and performance he's really he's put in an interesting position to have to portray this and he does a great job okay our fifth and final pairing is with unbreakable which we spoke about a little bit already and you know there have now been two full sequels to unbreakable it is a proper universe i wouldn't be shocked if he went back again honestly um it wouldn't surprise me because of the huge success of split and glass um I was very, very impressed by Split. I was a little disappointed by Glass.

And I think I expected to like Glass more than Split even. I think it just felt like maybe he returned a little bit too quickly to that world, but also Samuel Jackson is in his mid-70s now. I mean, there's probably only so much time. I didn't notice too much. I will say, another good thing about doing this, whatever you're doing as a project,

and podcasters are lucky because you get projects, is I didn't bother seeing Glass. I will say another good thing about doing this, whatever you're doing as a project, and that's what podcasters are lucky because you get projects, right? Is I didn't bother seeing Glass, right? And I loved Split. But it was the initial word of mouth. Sometimes it's enough to just put you off and I didn't see it. And I was glad to watch it

because I watched it on Breakable and I was like, I told him like, I'm watching Split. You know, no, I didn't go to Split because it was fresh in my mind, but I went straight to Glass. And watching it like that, it wasn't, it doesn't quite work, but I wasn't disappointed by it because I didn't see it in the moment. Right. I saw it now and in my mind, but it went straight to Glass. And watching it like that, it wasn't, it doesn't quite work, but I wasn't

disappointed by it because I didn't see it in the moment. Right. I saw it now, and I was like, no, no, it's well made. It's, the ending, it just gets a little too battle. Yeah, I have some big third act, sort of. It doesn't feel like it has one. Yeah, finale problems are just so anticlimactic and so undercuts, again, without spoiling,

really, there's a character you just love so much and just like, oh, man, really? We're going to do that? He made a very purposeful pivot at the end of that movie to defy the conventionality, I think, of superhero storytelling. And in doing so, kind of robs the audience of a kind of catharsis you need in a story like this to kind of just like, nothing burger, you're ending. Nevertheless, Unbreakable doesn't do that. Unbreakable has one of the great closing moments of movies really i think in the 21st century it's just a really fun final five minutes in addition to this like very focused and intense character study uh of these two men so pairings yeah i was mesmerized by this and again

different from my first experience which was good but i i think i was waiting what you're just saying about Glass was what I felt when I saw Unbreakable I was waiting for that last big action piece and it never came and then watching it now it's because we've now had all of the Marvel Cinematic Universe I don't need any of that anymore yep and so it was actually it actually fulfilled something and it was great um I went down the rabbit hole at first obviously trying to pair you know the most important part of the film which is the freeze frame ending intertitle uh so i you know i was looking at a lot of tv movies from the 70s and 80s a lot of after school specials i didn't come up with anything so i moved on from that no so you just did say it does have one of the worst i think that is the only crime that movie makes um another gift that you guys actually share with quentin is a vast knowledge of tv

movies which is like something that escapes me well No, no. I think I'm more with you because where I grew up, I've had to like force my way into that. And I've discovered some real gems. Yeah, there's some amazing stuff. Amanda, is it Amanda? Amanda Reyes. Amanda Reyes, her great book about TV.

There's a lot of good horror stuff. And I didn't know that because I didn't grow up with that. I would get the milk face on the carton in New Zealand. That's all we'd get. I remember getting exposed to a lot of new things when Guillermo del Toro produced the new version

of Trilogy of Terror, which then led to a lot of discovery of the first Trilogy of Terror. And then it was revealed to me, basically. And I guess like Dark Shadows, if you're a fan of a show like that, it starts out as a series or Night Stalker. But there is a whole vast world.

Anyway, you didn't go into that. There's so many. And we can do that. We'll come back. That's another great episode. The other one, it's a bad joke, but I really did think

about it for a second because L.A. Detective Mason Storm is hard to kill. And in my brain, the Steven Seagal, because I did grow up on those Seagal movies, in my brain,

this was the movie which had the best part of the trailer ever, which is like, one thought he was invincible. The other thought he could fly. They were both wrong.

But then I realized that was Mark for Death. I realized that they had two movies. This is what you thought he was invincible. The other thought he could fly. They were both wrong. But then I realized that was marked for death. I realized that they had two movies. This is what you get on our show. When we come to other shows, this is a time killer. Deep Seagal, yeah. Anyway, so I almost went Deep Seagal, but actually, no, the ending here is perfect because one, it contradicts, for me,

at least something that you said only moments ago about the best performance or best film somebody ever did. This is one of the most PCP movies. And when we say that, it's usually a movie that so obviously should be in the mainstream and just somehow missed out. And with Blu-ray and stuff, it's getting its thing. But Peter Weir's Fearless is one of the best movies ever made and one of the best.

Jeff Bridges in that movie gives one of the most exciting existential performances I've ever seen. So I'm only saying it because you brought up Jeff Bridges. But it's a movie that I loved way before we did the show. And I think it's the kind of movie that I wanted to do the show for because it was the kind of movie that I remember watching it, 18, 20, whatever we were, me and a friend were like, how is this not winning every Oscar? And no one was talking about it.

It has one of the best plane crashes to open this movie I've ever seen. John Delancey, who's Q from Star Trek, as this guy sitting next to Jeff Bridges and just talking to him through this plane ride. And then you feel like the plane's going down. It's the closest I've ever felt to that feeling. And Jeff Bridges survives. So it has a very similar concept, but a completely different way of going about it after that. He then, and I think, again, this is very relevant to the time we've just left, which is not everyone made it through the pandemic and, and especially a lot

of relationships or a lot of just friends, all of that. And it's about somebody trying to investigate like, why did I survive this? And not, and being estranged from your wife suddenly, because you can't understand them anymore because you've shared something else. And he ends up befriending, there's also Isabella Rossellini as his wife, but Rosie Perez is another. another and what i think is actually the best one of the best performances she's ever given as another survivor and their their approaches are very different um but he's trying to she's one of the only people who can kind of understand them now and so i think it's doing a lot of same things but in a non-superhero fashion so much more existential uh and you know he has allergy to strawberries that plays itself out beautifully. And we all know Peter Weir's

one of the great, like that's not new, calling him one of the great unsung. But of all his films this is to me the one that somehow still floats under the radar, which makes no sense because it is a mainstream movie with a mainstream star and a big budget and massive set pieces. And I don't know what it was

about the timing. I think it was Schindler's List. So that was about the timing. I think it was, it would have been Schindler's List. 93. So that's a steamroll. I get it. Jurassic. Jurassic. But it is such a rich

and emotional and kind of just an exciting film. And I always liked Jeff Bridges, but it's from this movie on that he becomes to me the best, you know, this and then we get

Lebowski and things that became the Jeff Bridges I loved younger. Jeff Bridges, I go back and enjoy that now, but at the time I was never, I wasn't a Jeff Bridges stan when I was young. So it's very funny because this is the second time this week that this film has been recommended.

Chris Ryan just called it out because he said it is not properly Sky Trash, but that is one of the great plane crashes in movie history. And so Chris was recommending it. I know it's a big movie for him. I think we're also just like looking for a reason

to do a Peter Weir episode. He was just recently acknowledged by the Academy at the Governor's Award. And he looked good. I was a little worried about that. I wondered if he'd stop making movies

because of something health-wise. It's been 13 years since he's made a movie, which is unfortunate. But I mean, he has just an extraordinary filmography. Speaking of, you know,

Australia and the history of Australian cinema, like he is a huge figure there. And then his work in Hollywood is pretty great. Oh, yeah. I mean, and even going back to such experimental stuff, Last Wave and Picnic at Hang Rock are so different in some ways. But, you know, when you get to Witness, you're like, oh, what if you take that kind of filmmaker and put them in this frame? And I think people have been trying to hit that formula.

You know, even Marvel tries to do that by hiring people like Tyke and stuff. But it's so much more prescribed or something. Yeah, you get the sense that he is very emotionally invested in the stories that he's telling and maybe that's not

always the case in the MCU. Nevertheless, great pairing. People should definitely seek out Fearless. A little easier to find in some of these other films. Brian, your final pairing.

What do you got? Final pairing. Well, one of the things I have come to realize in the last couple years is that I am leaning personally towards a lot more comedy. What do you got? Final pairing. Well, one of the things I have come to realize in the last couple years is that I am leaning personally towards a lot more comedy. I do in general.

Comedy is kind of a sweet spot for me. But the last few years in particular, I think I've been really gravitating towards that for whatever reason. But another thing

we love to do on the show is just talk about movies that missed for whatever reason. Fearless kind of missed. I'm going to talk about Mystery Men, which is not unknown and I feel like it's definitely found its way in the marvel era a lot

of people are like hey back in 99 actually there was this really great spoofy comedy uh with an again an incredible cast uh you know a lot of people who i think the similarity for me too is it's not only is it that pre-marvel should have been more, I mean, Unbreakable is successful at the time, but I feel like Mystery Men's an example of a movie that would be much more successful now, I think, even in this sort of Marvel fatigue era that we're in, than it was at the time.

It totally missed at the time and it's become sort of a cult item. Got a nice 4K this year. But I just love it. I absolutely adore it. And something about the idea of these normal people that become heroes which is kind of what happens in Unbreakable

is a similar kind of thing yeah I just I have I sort of take every opportunity that I can to call it out I know that you know your listeners I'm sure have heard of the movie

and a lot have probably seen it but I don't know I feel like you can't see it enough you know between Ben Stiller Jeffrey Rush Claire Forlani

William H. Macy Hank Azaria, Janine Garofalo, Kel Mitchell, Paul Rubens uh it's just Wes Steedy. Greg Kinnear right Greg Kinnear of course he's like covered in the ads his superhero costumes covered in different commercial ads and that really strikes me as where we are now yeah like what he's showing is like to be what the universe is and I think so there are a few kind of contemporary documents of something that mystery men was onto a long time ago the boys certainly on amazon is i think it owes a debt to mystery men invincible also on amazon i don't know if you've seen that

animated series which is very very good um and is based on uh a book written by the author of the walking dead his name is escaping me right now. Al Kirkman. Yes, Robert Kirkman, which is very good. And then also, there's a new show on Hulu called Extraordinary. I'm not sure if you've heard of it. It's a comedy, a UK comedy starring a young Irish woman set in a world in which everyone has superpowers except for this young woman

who everybody at the age of 18 realizes their powers. And she's 25 years old and she has not yet realized what her power is. And it's kind of like a workplace friendship comedy, but set in this world. And anyway, what we're seeing now is I think the sort of outgrowth in the aftermath of the MCU and DC and these things becoming incredibly successful, that there has to be this kind of counter-programming or this shifting of the tonality of telling stories about superheroes because we're all so programmed to enjoy superheroes. But Mystery Men and Unbreakable were effectively precursors.

There certainly were, you know, Superman in films like that and Blade is sort of in the late 90s, but it's funny to see something be so ahead of the curve

because Mystery Men really didn't do well. And it was as Ben Stiller's star was really rising and still really underperformed. So it's worth a revisit. It's a good recommendation.

Yeah, fun stuff. I remember going because Paul Rubens was coming back. Like that was the reason to go see it. It was like, oh, I wonder where has he been?

And you know, we found out. You also have a superpower though. Your superpower, Sean, was making me watch Stars at Noon yesterday. What did you think of Stars at Noon? I actually liked it. Yeah, I liked it. I mean, I wasn't aware of the novel. I know that novelist, but

we're trying to finish up some of the watching from last year because, again, it was the running time. I'm a Claire Denis fan, but the running time was keeping me away. And you've mentioned it enough that I was like, you know what? I'm going to watch that one. I thought their chemistry was the reason to watch it. Completely agree. It's very overlooked.

Especially for a film, I mean, especially in the aftermath of Beau Trevai being so high on the Satan's chemistry was the reason to watch it. Completely agree. It's very, very overlooked. Very overlooked. Especially for a film, I mean, especially in the aftermath of Beau Trevai being so high on the Satan's sound list and, you know, her being accepted in the last decade as such a major figure. No superheroes in that movie. No superheroes. But, I mean, we listen to this. I mean, we're talking about old movies and the reason we listen to this, I love, this is how I stay up to date with what movies are coming out.

And that is still a very, you know, incredible service. That's very kind of you. I that is still a very, you know, incredible service. That's very kind of you. I'm a huge fan of what you guys do, as you both know. So thank you so much for doing this. Thank you for providing really elite recommendations.

I expected nothing less, but now I have some things to go and watch. And now let's go to my conversation with the great M. Night Shyamalan on the show. Hi, Night. Thank you for doing this. Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

So, Night, you very rarely adapted someone else's work for a film of yours. I'm curious what drew you to Paul Tremblay's novel in the first place. It was very organic. I think when projects come directly to me for me to write and direct, it's fraught with, do I give up one of my ideas to do this because it takes so long to do one? And maybe I get into a place that's unfair to the material. But this one didn't come like that. It came as a movie for me to produce.

And there were filmmakers attached and writers attached and all of that. And so I could really relate to the material kind of as a third party and say, hey, these are the pros and cons I see with the story as its straight adaptation to this book. And I felt very strongly that the story should not go left where it went left in the book. And I was just like, hey, that's not for me and not for my audience, but I love this, and I wish you guys the best, and I can't wait to see it. Literally, that's what I said, and. The movie never came to be. Then eventually the book came back and they

said, hey, it's free and clear. We heard the ideas you were thinking of for the story. We love it. Would you be interested in making that version of the story? they didn't realize it, but I was thinking about the premise for so long from when they had it. It never left me. And so I was kind of, it was secretly churning in me. And at that point, it was almost like jealousy or something where I was like, ah, man, I wish I had had a chance to tell that story. And I just kind of let it go.

And when you know you, that thing where you're like, well, you can't have it, but I would have done this and I would have done that. And that's what was going on in my head. And then when it came back, I couldn't believe it. And I was like, huh? And I felt so passionate. I was like, maybe I should just do it myself

instead of producing it. And I'll write and direct it and produce it myself. When you first read the book, did you know where you would have taken the story and where you eventually did take the story? Or is that something that evolved over time? I read the screenplay first. And the screenplay was a straight adaptation of the book,

literally like one-to-one to the book. So I saw it in its kind of format, that format. And I knew where I wanted it to go immediately. I was like, it has to go here in the sense of like, and I can speak more openly that I felt like you set up a premise of a choice and they have to make a choice. They just have to. I don't care what it is, what the choice is.

You can make any version of that, you know, the yes, the no, anything of that, but they have to make a decision. That is, I'm certain. And that's the beauty and the pain of the premise that you're promising. And so you can't kind of do something that would alleviate that. You can't call it Sophie's choice. And then Sophie doesn't have to make a choice. I would feel cheated. So the visual style and the blocking in the movie is really quite striking. And there's a huge reliance on close-ups, like more so than I've ever seen in a movie like yours.

Why did you make that decision? Because the movie starts at an eight and a half. Like you start the movie at a home invasion. Like boom, the movie starts with a home invasion. And so you're not at a normal day and you're not slowly realizing that something supernatural is happening. Boom, you're in threat level, the highest threat level. So the characters are in a hyper mode. And that's why I kind of went with that approach. You built the cabin from scratch. Can you tell me about the challenges of shooting a

film basically all in one location? Yeah, it's, you know, something that I've done a few times, and I did it on the TV show Servant as well. And I actually find it to be an asset because I'm drawn to play like stories, and I'm drawn to a process that allows me to iterate. So having a cabin that we built and then we built again in the forest really allowed me to kind of keep thinking about ideas and redoing things. I'm a big reshooter. So as I'm shooting, I'm like, I didn't get it. I didn't get it. The next morning I'll go, guys, I didn't get it.

We're going to do it again in a few days. We're going to come back and grab that thing again. I didn't quite hit that pitch that I needed. And so having the, building the sets and keeping them there is really a part of the secret sauce. Is that, you know, I was going to ask you about shooting on film. That's got to be a little challenging if you're shooting on film and you have to reshoot constantly and you know, you didn't, how do you know you didn't get something are you looking at dailies that night or is it just internal yeah you're looking at dailies and and the process takes a bit because you have to go get it developed it has to come back and then we have to look at it and then we'll try to cut it in while we're shooting so it's a

long process of coming a two three day process before i even really can assess that um so it's complicated and of course you know you know, is there is it going to be developed properly? Is there going to be some kind of light leak, you know, all the old things about it? I love that. I love the fragility of that format. And then for me, nothing can nothing can touch film in terms of its emotional emotional impact, because it is an organic chemical thing that's happening with film. It's being exposed. Light is being exposed and it's a chemical process that's organic. And for whatever reason, it conjures in me emotions that a digital camera can't do.

Did you look at other films shot in close quarters to kind of prepare for this? You know, that's not how my mind works usually, you know. The strangest movies will inspire me. In fact, you know, things that are not in the genre or something will touch me in a certain way. I'm trying to think back, you know, usually there's like a whole long list of films that I have while I'm writing that are evoking me. Like, you know, the movie Drive My Car was one of them. You know, Ruske Hamaguchi's movie. And so that had a real big impact on me. I watched it during the writing of it.

And I told Ruske, because Ruske ended up being one of my jurors when I went to the Berlin Film Festival. So just kind of, you know, the universe brought us together. So that would be an example of one. That's such a beautiful movie. Is that maybe the relationships in the film and the way that people are communicating?

Is that what drew you to that movie and with this script? You know, there's a kind of romance in the way he frames and shows people, like the opening with like this beautiful kind of naked woman sitting up in bed at dusk in a silhouette and starts telling a story.

It has almost a fantasy quality to it. And the poetry of how he sees the character's relationship to the world, and it has a very philosophical bent to it as well, which speaks to me you know and so some of the more um emotional and poetic scenes especially towards the end you know where that tone that he hit was very important you have this extraordinary gift that you've been told about for three decades now to continue to write and to create and to film in a way that the audience desperately wants to know what happens next. And that's obviously not easy to do. But when you are actually creating

something, is that a strategic approach that you're using? Or is it much more emotional and it just kind of flows? Are you essentially plotting beats to keep us on the edge of our seat? You know, it's a multi-layered, it's almost like a chef. I really do think the analogy of being a chef is the closest thing to talking about being a writer-director. You know, there's different layers of the process. So, you know, the choice of ingredients, how you prep it, you know, what is the process of making, breaking it? What is the process of serving it?

It's all important. And I'm always astonished. I try to explain it. It sounds like I'm crazy, but when I write it, I write it really kind of acting out the characters in my head and doing it. And then as the director, I'm going to make it into images. And I literally go, what did this dude mean when he kept

on saying this in that scene? Why did he say it this way? Like the he wasn't me. You know, that I wrote it in a way, you know, saying, you know, her eyes looked up. You know, she thought she heard something or whatever it is. Or her hand in the teacup starts to slow. That if, like, pretend that was the line. Her hand in the teacup starts to slow. Let's pretend that was the line, her hand in the teacup starts to slow.

I know that the scene is from her point of view, and I know that it's her anxiety, so then I will shoot the whole scene from where the writer instinctually thought it should go. And so it's almost like you're analyzing something, the instincts of somebody that wasn't thinking about the images, and then helping those instincts to come out in a visual form.

Then the producer in me or the strategist in me is trying to figure out, how do we accomplish these shots? There's all different parts of the brain. How can I even do the shot that I just came up with given that we make smaller movies and that kind of thing and then there's this weird kind of editorial process that has to detach from the passion of the person that directed it so it's really it's a weird process of like different parts of your ego being subjugated so that you can you can analyze the previous person.

Interesting. So I found the movie to be this almost perfect example of your ongoing interest in this collision between faith and fear and logic and something more cosmic in the world. What keeps drawing you back to those kinds of stories like so many years later? Yeah, you know, I think the binding factor in a lot of these movies is a sense of awakening agency in people. That it's something that I believe deeply in as a human being. It's something that I espouse in our foundation and how we help others learn how powerful they are. So these characters realize they're important in different ways. So, you know, in Unbreakable or in Knock at the Cabin, they realize they're a part of something larger. And that's a beautiful feeling. So more than faith, it's an awakening of who you are

and realizing who you are is something amazing. The movie also tangles with this idea of internet-fueled delusion. Are you someone who is susceptible to conspiracy theories or online fear-mongering? What's your mentality about a lot of that thing? No, no. I get such a kick out of these, you know, like flat earthers and things. It's like, you know, I'm always giggling about it. And, you know, look, the news, the conspiracy theorists, everybody's a genre storyteller. That's all you know. The news is basically genre storytelling.

So is the conspiracy theorist. I get it, you know. Conspiracy theory, dopamine release when you figured it out. The earth is flat. They've been lying toist. I get it. You know, conspiracy theory, dopamine release, when you figured it out, the earth is flat. They've been lying to us. I knew it. Look at our water glass. Look, it's flat.

You know, you get this dopamine hit, and you're like, I did it. I figured it out. And I get it. That feels amazing. And so that's what I do for a living, is make you feel that dopamine hit of, I get it. I figured it out, you know?

So it's fun to watch that and to put it in the story of conspiracy theorists and the story was a fun little mischievous thing. I can't get enough of them, by the way. I love it. I could do many stories about what groups of people believe. I'm wondering if you feel like your stories have to get even crazier as the world maybe gets crazier and crazier by the day well I think if we see ourselves well more in the humor part of it where again the conspiracy theory things are kind of funny

in the movie if we can laugh at ourselves I think it disarms us as long as the crazier the world gets, the more I can reference them in a humorous way. And hopefully we see each other in the folly of some of the things we do. In the past decade, you've made this really profoundly successful return to thrillers as a genre. And it feels like, even though you've had such success in the last 10 years doing these movies again,

feels like the genre itself, like fewer and fewer filmmakers, movie makers are utilizing it. I don't know if you've noticed that or what you attribute that to. Well, you know, it's always been the entree for new voices, you know, and then over the course of cinema history, there have been the masters that have gone into the genre for one movie or two movies, that kind of thing, the Kubricks and the Robert Wises of the world. And obviously Hitchcock did it multiple times. There's some that made a habit of it, but a lot of times, and Steven Spielberg did it a bunch of times too.

But maybe you have to have a deep love of the genre, but it is the entree for new voices a lot of times, you know, people that, you know, see the world slightly off and then they come and tell a genre story. So it's a beautiful way to start telling stories and then maybe they graduate to something else, but I never think of it that way. I never think of it as a lesser genre at all. And so, you know, for me, I have the ability to do cinema at any level that I choose to do it. And I actually like to mix genres a lot, comedy and horror and The Visit or drama or whatever it is.

I want to ask you about Dave Bautista. Yeah. He's just, even in the early reception, is one of the big standouts of this film. Yeah. There's a sense that he is kind of like, this is kind of him at his best. This is the best thing he's done yet.

Yeah. And you've centered him. And just looking at the book after watching the film, I'm not sure I saw Dave Bautista in the Leonard role. So can you just tell me about casting him and building that character with him? You know, it's funny. I didn't know how else to cast this role. I was like, how can I find a giant that can do 30 pages of monologue? I mean, who can do this on this planet? And Dave in that

little scene he had in Blade Runner really caught my attention and really said to me, there's a complicated human being there that really cares about the character's thoughts, and it was coming through the character's body, and I could feel it. And I know how rare that is, what he was doing, that actor was doing. And so I said, who was that? And I learned it was Dave Bautista. And I didn't really know much about him as a wrestler or any of those things.

And what a lovely, one-of-a-kind person. And I got to meet him at just the right moment in his life. And there was one Leonard that exists on this planet, and it was Dave. Pretty amazing. So you worked with Lowell Meyer on this, who you also worked with on Servant. But then there was also a second DP in Yaron Blaschke.

I'm curious why the two DPs, and I'm such a fan of Blaschke's work in particular. So how did that work? Yeah, I mean, Jaron did almost all the interiors I'm curious why the two DPs, and I'm such a fan of Blaschke's work in particular. So how did that work? Yeah, I mean, Jaron did almost all the interiors of the inside of the cabin. And then for schedule reasons, we kind of broke it up. I knew I couldn't work with him for the last part. And so we had the exteriors being done by Lowell.

And so it kind of worked out kind of perfectly so that there wouldn't be any inconsistencies in the way it was being told. But Jaron shot most of it. And he's an amazing mind, just a beautiful person. Both of them are just the loveliest human beings. I worked with both of them on my TV show, Servant. So they both did episodes for me. And so I knew how they worked and I got to get to know them. And Jaron's eye is so beautiful and he likes the type of storytelling that I do which is we think through everything incredibly intricately before we shoot it and make sure we have the equipment and make sure we make it so that we have the time to do that incredibly difficult shot.

For example, there's a sequence where I chop the heads off all of the characters to convey a sense of detachment from the characters. And so you think about that in advance so you know that these consecutive shots together will have that statement about them. You don't just think of it on the day and go, oh, I wish we should have done those shots like that, you know? Yeah, it was just interesting to think about him making a movie like yours and a movie like The Lighthouse and the kind of insanity that sometimes grows inside of contained spaces. Yeah, exactly. We both love contained spaces. So it was wonderful working with them. The movie of hers that this also reminded me a lot of, especially in the final act of Signs. And it's been 20 years since that movie.

I'm wondering how you look back on it now. I think it's a bit underappreciated. Oh, thanks, brother. Yeah, I mean, I get so much love for that movie. I feel a new generation is learning it now and watching it now. And it does have that, a similar kind of contained, a world-ending event is there, and a very lovable family at the center of it. It reminded me, the humor in this movie reminded me of the humor when I was writing.

I could feel it in me, that kind of playfulness was there. Do you look for opportunities to kind of have your movies be in conversation with each other, or is that an unconscious thing that happens? Yeah, it's unconscious. They just kind of start to emerge with who the actor is and who the actors are and who the DP is and who's the composer. And they start to take on a confluence of point of views. And sometimes, it's like, am I feeling burdened? Am I feeling playful? Am I feeling angry? And you can feel those things in the way I'm telling the story.

And then that might feel familiar going, oh, yeah, he was angry before. So you made Servant for Apple TV+, but you've never made a film for a streaming service. Yeah. And obviously, your films are great theatrical experiences. I'm curious what your point of view is right now on the sort of state of theatrical movie going. I think it's amazing. I think the theaters aren't going anywhere. I think the industry, there were two things that conspired for a moment to try to end the theaters. It was a corporate movement towards wanting everyone wanting to have their own Netflix

and forcing us to be at home, and then the pandemic, which forced us to be at home. And that corporate agenda and then Mother Nature conspired for one moment to say, let's kill the movie theaters. And the movie theaters survived that moment. And the corporations now realize that you can't compete with people coming together and not multitasking and concentrating at the highest forum.

And if the storytellers that love telling movies in the movie theater, Chris, Quentin, myself, you know, if we tell, you can only see our stories in the movie theater that they come. And it's just a different art form altogether. They're not equivalents at all. And it's not even close. It's not even a conversation. And so you're seeing all the studios now moving back to this format of back to the movie theaters. I love it, dude.

And we're not going anywhere. And I'm very happy for that. I'm very happy to hear you say that. Night, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers, what is the last great thing they have seen? Have you seen any good movies lately? You mean in the movie theater or at home?

Honestly, wherever. It doesn't matter. Well, I did see everything everywhere all at once in the movie theater, and I loved it. Tell me about what you liked about it. You know, I thought the mixture of the kind of, you know, over-the-top farcical tone that they were spinning, and they kept spinning it and spinning it,

for the most part, I thought was incredibly successful. And its movement to emotion, kind of just simple human emotion at the very end, which I thought was also effective. For most of it, that spin of the genre, the spin of the tone, I was very, very touched by, really, really touched by how unique it was. And it felt like, you know, a lot of times I watch movies and I have a very distinct feeling, which is it wasn't cooked enough.

That if they just had cooked it some more, they would have found it. And whether that means in the screenplay or the editing or lived with it and learned and listened to it a little bit more, just let it cook. I do think that's probably the difference now than in the old days where we would edit for a year, a one full year. You would cook it for a long time. I felt that they had cooked it. They cooked it enough.

They really had thought it through. You could tell they had gone through, you know, they had, they cooked it enough. They really had really thought it through. You could tell they had gone through a ton of iterations on that thing to find its singular voice. And that's what I hope for all of us that we find the language of our own movies and master it before we give it to you guys. Night. I appreciate you and your movies. Congrats on knock at the cabin. Thanks brother. Thank you for having me on. Thanks for doing it.

Thank you to M. Night Shyamalan, Brian Elric, and our producer, Bobby Wagner, for his work on today's episode. Next week, Joanna Robinson returns to the show to break down the Best Picture race and to do a little investigating

into the Best Actor and Actress races. We will see you then.