The Big Picture - ‘Loki’ and 10 Ways to Build the Perfect Streaming Service

Episode Date: June 15, 2021

Sean and Amanda discuss the box office returns for ‘In the Heights’ and how the movie’s availability on HBO Max may have affected it. They also discuss the launch of ‘Loki’ on Disney+ and ��Infinite’ on Paramount+ and the challenges facing movie lovers as more and more services pop up (0:30). Then, they share their plans to build the perfect streaming service, by drafting film and TV libraries, sports rights, signature stars and creators, and more (41:36). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Watch is the latest and the greatest in pop culture from best friends Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald. Join them as they discuss TV, movies, music, and much more. Check out The Watch on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about streaming our brains out. We have so much streaming news to talk about today because that's what movies are. But first, let's talk quickly about a terrible loss in the world of movies.

We lost the great actor Ned Beatty, who passed away this weekend at 83 years old. He, of course, was the memorable supporting star of a lot of great films in the 70s, particularly Network and Deliverance and Nashville and All the President's Men, Superman, so many others. I was a huge Ned Beatty fan. Amanda, what did you think about the loss of Ned? I mean, it's sad. You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, like an instant, iconic, amazing speech. And it's great that every character actor gets that moment and gets that Oscar nomination, which he did for Network. But sort of is like the exception of his wonderful career as like the king of showing up in a movie.

And he's a classic that guy. And to me, he'll always probably be, I'll remember him most for all the president's men when he plays the investigator in miami um that uh dustin hoffman as carl bernstein has to uh connive his way into the office but yeah just a long career what over 150 roles just in everything that you like and um you know it's sad he lived a great life life. He had a great career. He's amazing at everything. You can see his work in the work of all the great character actors and character actors who transformed into leading men over the last 25 years. I thought a lot about Philip Seymour Hoffman and Michael Shannon and actors like them who,

you know, greatly benefited from, I think, a lot of the work that Ned Beatty did over the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, etc. Great actor. Let's pivot now to something less great, which is the complicated nature of how we receive everything in the world these days from a quote-unquote content perspective. Bunch of stuff happened over the weekend. Obviously, we talked about In the Heights last Friday on the show, and we were excited to see that movie get released in theaters and on HBO Max.

In addition to that, Disney Plus launched its new series, Loki. We will talk a little bit about Loki. And Paramount Plus launched a new feature film starring Mark Wahlberg, directed by Antoine Fuqua, called Infinite. Let's start with the In the Heights news. A lot of concern trolling, a lot of angst, a lot of weirdness, I think, in the discourse thus far about the disappointing box office numbers for In the Heights, which made $11.4 million. Did you have any expectations? Analysts were pegging this movie as potentially a $20 million movie at the box office, despite it being available on HBO Max. Did this even cross your mind that it could be quote unquote disappointing? It did in the sense that that's the only way I get news, right?

Is that box office reporting is its own tiny little world that a lot of people pay attention to in the trades. And they have their standards and they have their narratives. And they literally wrote pieces during the pandemic of like, what do we do? And how do we exist without box office reporting and how can we understand the world? And it is true. It is an independent measure of what is successful and what is not successful. And I guess if people who really follow the tracking were expecting 20 million and then it was less than 20 million, I suppose I was

surprised because these analysts do spend a lot more time on it than I do. Now, what these people take away from it was 11 million instead of 20 million and what that means in HBO Max is more complicated. And I don't think box office reporting or any sort of industry reporting has yet caught up to just like the new pandemic world and theaters and just the way people are watching things is changing and it's changing long term because of industry changes and it's changing and the fact that people are still getting used to go back to the theaters and we just don't know from week to week what's going to happen. So I don't know what conclusions totally to draw. Yeah, I think we could probably overreact to certain aspects of it.

We have talked a bit about the day and date films that HBO Max has been releasing in theaters and on their streaming service over the last few months. And movies like Godzilla vs. Kong have been able to be successful. And Tom and Jerry have been somewhat successful. A couple of other films have done decent numbers. Even The Conjuring 3 did decent numbers at the box office, despite also being available on HBO Max.

In the Heights is the only one of those films that is not quote unquote, well-known IP. It does not have a big movie star attached to it. And it is not a pre-existing property that most people who, you know, didn't see the Broadway show

are familiar with. They're familiar with the name Lin-Manuel Miranda, but he is not necessarily forward-facing in the same way that he was with Hamilton. So I don't know if it confirms, but it certainly, I think it satisfies

some of the suspicions that there is this incredible dichotomy now in the world of movies, that there is event stuff, and that may be the only stuff that can open big in theaters and then there is everything else which is likely to be cordoned off to streaming i wouldn't be surprised

if a lot of people watch this on hbo max this weekend but there was probably a personal calculation that had to go into that was it i've got two kids i don't want to pay 20 a ticket to drive to a movie theater on a saturday night If I just sit everybody down on the couch here at 6 p.m., we can get through this by 8.30 and then go on with the rest of our evening as opposed to organizing five hours and hundreds of dollars and parking and everything else that goes along with it. And I don't know if we can ever go back. I don't know if there's ever a universe as long as these films are available simultaneously on streaming. And in some cases,

they will be in others. They won't like A Quiet Place 2. But as long as they are available, I think the value proposition for most families, at least, which tend to drive a lot of box office historically for films like this,

they're going to choose to stay home. Yeah, of course. It's way cheaper and easier. Though, as you were saying that, I was thinking like, it is funnier just how in some ways it's easier, not easier, but you're more likely to actually block off five hours and go make an event than you are to just be like, okay, I got to start this at six and then I'll be done at 830.

And then I got all the other things to do because you always go do something else. Like the number of times that I've been like, can't wait to watch this movie tonight. And then I'm like, oh, shit, it's nine o'clock and I have to go to bed at 10 or I turn into a pumpkin. So what am I going to do here? Um, you haven't seen my Google calendar clearly. Cause I literally will cordon off the time to be like, I will watch this film from this hour to this hour. My anxiety, I just felt a physical spike in my body. And I know that you do that. And I know that that's how you organize your life. And sometimes I benefit from your organization. So it's fine. But it really stresses me out in a way that I don't

want to know that. I don't want to think about that. I want you to do what's good for you. Thank you for acknowledging that sometimes you benefit from it. I appreciate that. I totally do. And you're very organized. It's very impressive. But I just imagining being like five minutes late to like making my own dinner. I am just like really panicked. I, you know, I try to be on time for the things I got to be on time for. That's what I use my Google calendar for. And then I got to have some Amanda time. Do you know actually that like when I'm on my own, I am just like, and I don't have obligations. Just things like slow way down. I can spend like two hours doing nothing, which I don't know whether you would expect

from me. Not exactly a chill person. It's not like what I present. Well, let's go back to when I'm on my own. What does that mean? Well, when I'm home alone, you kind of have experienced this because when my husband is out of town, suddenly I'm just like emailing you at 1215 and like, here are my thoughts about a movie. And like, we all know that's bad because I do need to go to bed.

But I'm just like, wow, got all this time. Maybe I'll just look at this on the Internet for a while. Maybe I'll just like sit here. It just kind of like time slows down. It's Amanda time. So and I need that space. But it does mean that like a lot of times I'm just like, oh, I didn't leave enough time for this movie. Oops. Yeah. I think I am susceptible to that,

which is why I over-organize my lifestyle. And with so much stuff coming at us every day, I feel like there is so much more to consume than there ever has been, which I think is, it's kind of related to this conversation. I think the expectation that everyone is like, it's Friday night, I have to go to the theater to see In the Heights is weakening. We have de-emphasized that as a cultural institution. So if you do that and you don't have the psychotic Google calendar that I have, then fewer people are going to make the time to see the movies. Or they might not see it on Friday night. And a lot of people have pointed out that musicals are kind of slow burners. The Greatest Showman, a film I still have not seen, is like the example here. But just the type of person who wants to see this movie or the family or however people

are fitting it into their lives, it's not like, you know, the supreme drop. It's not like I got to go on Friday night and see this so it doesn't get spoiled for me so I can do like my 18 Reddit threads and like find all of the backstory and connect it and like listen to my five podcasts. It's like, oh, I'm going to go enjoy this. So it's not necessarily over for In the Heights as a success. It's just that it is not the same consumption model as, you know, a superhero movie or Godzilla versus Kong. And as we go through this time of not knowing what's

going to happen and not really knowing how to report on these things, it seems like the movies that can have that strong opening or that can perform in the ways that the industry understands will just take up a lot more space. It's so much harder to analyze what's going on around it then because the numbers that are shared are so vague. Obviously, we've talked at length about Netflix is kind of like, did you watch the first 18 seconds of this film? If so, we log that as a view. But I think the point that you just made is really smart and really on point with where culture is going, which is it's not just I watched Loki and I had to carve out the time to watch Loki. It's I watched Loki and then I also spent two hours consuming ancillary content about Loki. Now, obviously, the ringer is as

guilty of this, quote unquote, guilty as anybody. We make a lot of stuff about how to better enjoy or understand the stuff that you like. That's a value proposition of our company. But that's different. That's different than being able to say, okay, I've now watched an episode of Loki. Now I can just fire up in the Heights. Instead, I'm looking at my phone and looking at Reddit for two hours while I try to figure out what the role of Owen Wilson's character is in this TV show. I don't think we need to talk about it in terms of guilt. It's just a different way of experiencing things. And, you know, I tried to ask you a little bit about this with Cruella, just because I kind of think it's

smart strategically. People who like these things are then just kind of doing a lot of the work for the companies. I mean, a lot of it is like marketing and guaranteed audience and making sure that the content will be received enough that it continues to be made in the way that you like. Now, what that means for art in terms of like, you know, fan culture dictating how these things, you know, I think it's a nightmare and you feel slightly differently. But if you like something and you like spending your time doing that, that's your guaranteeing that it's going to continue to be made, which kind of seems like the only way to guarantee stuff going forward. Yeah, I guess it's just the fan culture aspect of that conversation is so difficult because,

of course, you don't want to support anybody who's a bad actor. And also, usually you get a lot of lowest common denominator content when noisiness equates what we get in the world. So that's complex. I think in the case of something like Loki, and this was true of the other MCU series thus far, it's true that the engagement was so deep, deeper than in any engagement you could have within the heights. No matter how much a person loved in the heights a it's a static and closed loop once the film's over it's over and these shows are these kind of ongoing engagements intellectual and emotional engagements with what could be and they've now got us hooked on the iv drip you know we can't get off or iv is it's not iv it's it's morphine you know we can't get off of this like what could

happen next i say we loosely. I know maybe you don't care as much as I do. And I don't care as much as many people do, candidly. The TV shows have not really done it for me in the same way that the movies do. And we can talk about that a little bit. But it is a unique proposition to just say, instead of watching a film or a show

or reading a book or whatever, spending time outside with your loved ones, you're just going to spend three hours reading about and thinking about what could happen next in a show, or reading a book, or whatever, spending time outside with your loved ones. You're just going to spend three hours reading about and thinking about what could happen next in a show you're going to see in six and a half days, which is fascinating. I mean, I can't really recall that level of cultural engagement in the past. Maybe with shows like Lost, there were a handful of things like this that grew up, but now it is so accelerated and so deep. Yeah. And I think that, you know, the MCU superhero kind of like comic book, you know, integrated, whatever storyline canon other worlds, I'm just like saying proper nouns, but you guys know what I mean.

Model is a very specific, but the idea that a piece of art, which is not really fair to say, but like a company and that is producing content is only asking for the hour of time or the two hours or the three hours of time that the content exists is like over for everything. You know, you said in the heights is a closed loop, but that's actually not the case because if you think about the success of Hamilton like most people didn't actually get to see the musical but they did listen to the soundtrack and like you know started doing their own versions of it and that that is like time spent engaging with a part of the content you're right but not like the major thing and I think at this point you can't just be a good show or a good movie or you like have to have some other

way that people will engage with you, whether it's the movie star or whether it's the music or whether it's the like just the memes or whatever. I mean, that's not that's true, not just of movies, but like all businesses. Right. It's not you can't just buy the thing. You also also have to like tweet about it and do a review of like your experience or else like you haven't given everyone their value, but it can't just be the thing itself anymore. And I, I don't blame the people who have capitalized on that, I guess, but it is sort of depressing if you just want to like roll up and watch a movie and then get on with your life, which is the Amanda model. And sometimes I can't even like fit in the time for the movie because I just, you know, did my normal stuff. It's a lot. It's a lot that is being asked of people. Does the encroaching free market capitalism of popular culture

ever bother you when you're engaging with something? Does it occur to you that you have been, you're in this spin cycle of content? Or for the most part, are you having individual experiences with the things that you're watching? Set aside the kind of like, I have to watch this because Sean asked me to watch it so we can talk about it on a podcast. Right. No, I find that I specifically seek things out where I'm like, I'm just doing this for me. And no one is going to ask me to do all, you know, an eight part survey and some, you know,

memes and it like, and a Halloween costume or whatever. I can just have it for me. I mean, that's why I read so many novels, but some of that is specific to me and like me being a contrarian and also me doing this for work. And so when I'm looking for like off time, I do things that are just for Amanda time. But I personally am weirded out by it. And I think in terms of business and in terms of also like the art that you and I like, it's bad. It's scary. It has like a lot of far reaching consequences. But at the same time, if you like all these shows and then you like reading about them on the internet and you feel a sense of community, you're getting what you want. Great. And at the same time, I'm getting a lot of content and I can just like watch it on my own

and like go home with my ball and I'm fine too. And for the most part, I'm still getting what I want because we're in this bubble. What's gonna suck is when the bubble is over, which it might already be, and you only get the big franchise things that everybody wants to dissect on the internet for 40,000 years at a time. Yeah, it's interesting.

I mean, so later in this episode, we'll do kind of a gimmick, a stunt about how to build the best version of one of these terrariums, right? One of these spaces where you can go and get all your stuff. I've been researching as you have the 1975 movie draft. I've been watching a lot of movies from 1975 recently. I'm just consistently blown away by how accessible so many things are. I mean, I am now in a place, and set aside my perverse collection of physical media, we are in a place where I will never run out of something to watch ever in my life.

I could spend every waking hour of my life, and I could live live to 105 years old and I won't because I'm not that healthy. But if I was and I could, I would never run out of a film to watch or a television series to watch. But even just focusing on movies, everything is available. Almost everything. And on the one hand, I think if you wanted to continue to have exactly what you're describing, these discrete, defined experiences that do not have all of this ancillary coverage, that do not have this whole world to imagine what could come next, to just say, I want to watch Mike Nichols' famed flop, The Fortune, starring Warren Beatty and Jack Nicholson. I could just watch it. And then I could, maybe if I wanted to crack open Mark Harris's book about Mike Nichols' career and read about the struggles of that film,

you could do that. But you don't have to go to r slash Mike Nichols and figure out where and why everything happened and what went wrong. You could just have that sustained quiet experience. And then there's obviously this entire other gambit of launching new services on the back of well-known IP, of well-known figures. And maybe that dovetails a little bit more clearly to a conversation about Infinite and Loki, which are, you've got this, you know, dominant, I guess, number two enterprise right now that is probably going to be number one in the next five years in Disney Plus, which is on this just incredible run of creating stuff that people want and have for 50 years now. And you've got Paramount Plus with Infinite, essentially taking a movie that was set for theaters and moving it exclusively to its platform to try to get people to sign up for this platform, of which I would say less than 10% of the population probably knows what it is.

And it's because they've done a very strange job of marketing what Paramount Plus is. Let's talk about Infinite first. This is not a good movie. It's really bad. In fact, this is a very bad movie. Did you make it through the entire film? No, absolutely not. You said that I only had to watch about 30 minutes to get a sense of it.

Let me just, let me pull the curtain back here. Friday afternoon, 3.30 p.m., putting together my watching schedule, which includes a lot pull the curtain back here. Friday afternoon, 3.30 PM, putting together my watching schedule, which includes a lot of the films of 1975 because contrary to popular belief, was not born then, was not a sentient being then. I'm doing some catching up, obviously of the films I have seen before

and some that I haven't. So again, it's not on the Google calendar, but I got my schedule ready. And Sean's like, yo, I need you to watch both Infinite and Loki this weekend. And I was like, cool. I will spend my time on this terrible works of art instead of not even art. I'm not calling them art. On these things that are not the great American films of 1975.

But you said I could only watch 30 minutes and get the drift. So I only watched 30 minutes. I did have to watch the opening two minutes like three times because there's a prologue that explains what's going on. And like I was sitting there not looking at my phone, like trying to listen to it. And I just couldn't make myself focus through the entire prologue. Like my mind would wander instantly. And I was like, I don't know what's happening.

I gotta watch this again so I can understand it. I finally transcribed it and put it in our outline. I'm not gonna read it for people. Would you like me to read it? I'm happy to read it in a dramatic voice. Sure. Yeah, go ahead. There are among us a people gifted with the perfect memory of all their past lives. They call themselves infinites.

Among the infinites, two groups have vied for power. On one side, the believers, dedicated to using their knowledge for the protection and growth of all of humanity. Against them stand the nihilists, who see this power as a curse. New technologies have given the nihilists an opportunity to end all life on Earth, and the race is on for its control. I was following along, like I was reading along with you as you read that, and it is my job to listen to you in these appointed times, and still, like halfway through. You were checking out? I don't know. Yeah, I checked out. I was just like, this literally, I just, it can't hold my attention. Yeah. I mean, this one is a very particular, this is a bullseye for stuff both you and I could care

less about you know it's it's it's an attempt to launch a new franchise with a big movie star and an accomplished filmmaker and the plot and the story and the engine of everything is not effective I think it's it's also greatly hurt by not being in a movie theater where you could you could at least say I have to keep watching for the two-hour runtime. I have to make it through the end of the film as opposed to within 20 minutes. I was like, what else can I look at that isn't this movie because I'm so disengaged from it? This is not an official review of the film Infinite. I'm sure the people who worked on it worked very hard. I didn't mean them no disrespect.

It's just sometimes movies don't work. This movie doesn't work. And you can see why they chose to put it on Paramount+. Because what it does do is you look at the trailer and you've got Mark Wahlberg and Chiwetel Ejiofor in by far the best scene in the movie, basically at length, talking about the premise of the movie

and drawing you in. I think that scene works great. It's easily the best thing in the movie. And the rest of the movie is kind of like limp, bad CGI, confusing science fiction premising. Nevertheless- Terrible performances.

Sorry. Really, really bad. And like the B grade, like the sub tier, like the sub Wahlberg, Edu4 actors, it's like the cast is not strong.

And they have to say nonsense, like the thing that you just read, so it's on them. But everyone has like a different weird interpretation of how they should say what they're saying.

Very tough line readings across the board. In a way, it was very old school Hollywood though too, because for the last 50 years before the incursion of the streaming services, there were five to 10 movies like this a year. Five to 10 movies that cost between 50 and a hundred million dollars that had a big star that had a kind of like complicated premise that could create future worlds that didn't work. They're just kind of sucked. And so in a way, it was comforting to know that movies like this are still being made because this is something that we

ask for. Like, tell me a new story. Tell me an original story. That doesn't always mean it's going to be a good movie. I do think I'm willing to bet that some people signed up for the service, though, to watch this movie. I do think it probably helped a little bit. Maybe not a lot because the reviews and the word of mouth was bad. But I think that it can help to raise the profile of a fledgling service like this.

Do you think that Paramount Plus should release its numbers on how many people signed up? As a journalist, yes. Okay. As a consumer, that's not up to me. No, as a strategist. And that's kind of a side question. The real question is, do you think HBO Max should release how many people watched um on in the heights on HBO Max because there is some sort of you know they don't yet and so they're like kind of the third party tracking

things that have sort of suggested that it's a lower number than how many people watched Wonder Woman and how many people watch Godzilla versus versus kong on hbo max which given our previous conversation is not surprising but announcing it would possibly allow it to be interpreted as like another disappointment just because it's not as high as the previous well so because these services are all fairly new and because the revenue that they generate does typically does not not end in profit, and I want to talk about that because there was some news about Netflix this week that I think is pretty interesting around this, then the incentive to not release the information is directly correlated to stock price historically. And if you release bad numbers, the stock takes

a hit. If you go back to when Gulf and Western bought Paramount, the idea there was to generate revenue with box office. And we started this conversation by talking about the box office that In the Heights generated and how that historically is how we've understood whether a film is successful or not. That has changed radically. Now we look at how many people put their eyes on it. And the only way they put their eyes on it is if they were subscribers. So if 80 million people watched Bird Box, that means you've got 80 million subscribers engaged with original films on your service. So it's just a very confusing moment

where there is the anticipation, the expectation of long-term profit and success based on ongoing loss-leading strategy. We're getting a little bit far into like fake NBA territory and I don't want to get too far into it, but it is important because your question is a good one. How honest should every studio from Spotify

to Paramount Plus to Apple Music to everybody who makes stuff and distributes, how honest should they be? Who said anything about being honest? That's like, I mean, this is what I'mutes how honest should they be who said anything about being honest that's like i mean this is what they just share numbers yes should they do the fake netflix thing share you know or though they watched you know like a minute or people like actually managed to see the word in the heights this weekend in some capacity which means there's an awareness you know whatever inflated thing in order to try to control some of the conversation.

Because I think I understand. I mean, the stock price is the obvious, obvious thing in terms of silence. But on the other hand, they're letting a lot of people speculate. And there's really like there's no accountability. So they could make up any numbers. What would be better to hear nothing or to hear lies in your in your point of view? I mean, which hat am i wearing like my hat is a human being and like a person with standards or as a like strategist well you use the word strategist

so let's just say strategically i think they should be lying but like you know as a human being i would receive all of it as lying i mean i receive all of the netflix stuff is like i don't believe you we know it's two minutes like know, someone just caught this on an autoplay. But it's working for Netflix. It's funny because there is a significant difference, I think, historically between box office, sound scan and album sales and television ratings and Nielsen. Nielsen has always been a kind of imaginary concept. It's an extrapolation of a small group of consumers relative to the rest of the consuming public. And so Nielsen families historically would get these boxes

and when they watch television shows, those shows are logged. And then among that small set, Nielsen would say, based on the number of Nielsen families in the country, 14 million people watched ER this week. SoundScan is barcodes. SoundScan is record stores reporting into SoundScan. Here's how many people bought this record. Box office is historically the same way. Here are the major chains and the

mom and pops that report their profits for the number of tickets that were sold for films. TV has always been a little bit illusory. And the streaming numbers are similar. They're not like movies and they're not like music. They are like TV. And so the kind of like, we think this is right, it's as close to honest as we can get, is clearly where all of this stuff is going and is going to continue to go. For Paramount+, it's an interesting question. I don't know. If they got 5 million signups on the weekend of Infinite, that would be an extraordinary success. But that's still a small number relative to the 100 million plus of some of their other competitors. HBO Max is now slowly climbing

the ladder and trying to get more and more subscribers by releasing these films over time. And so Paramount Plus, I would imagine, is lagging way behind those. So they may be still too embarrassed to share those numbers. I'm not really sure. Yeah. But again, I understand how embarrassment in the lower numbers would affect stock price. And obviously, these are all giant corporations. And that's the only thing they care about.

But I feel like shame and embarrassment is getting in the way of a lot of people just lying loudly in public and turning it to success, which is the story of Hollywood and America. It's true. You know, there is certainly a case for just fake it till you make it. Just, you know, I think there are a lot of people in Hollywood who are afraid to say it because they have a lot of deals. But there are a lot of people in Hollywood who believe that that is what Netflix has done for years, that they have just faked it until they made it.

And now they have this extraordinary user base. So many people tapped into their stuff every day that they actually are the behemoth that they always said that they were. And so you can do that. Whether Paramount Plus is going to pursue that, I don't know. A company on the other hand that is doing it,

and I actually believe them, is Disney Plus. And I believe them because I talk to a lot of people about the Mandalorian. People are engaged in Disney Plus. They're engaged in these TV shows that they have been programming. Were you engaged in Loki? I fell asleep. Oh my god.

Come on! It's the honest truth. I fell asleep. You asked me to watch it. I procrastinated. How far in did you get? I got the gist. The problem is I waited until Sunday afternoon because I didn't want to watch it. I had zero interest.

And it was like a beautiful, warm summer day here in Los Angeles. And summer is when I thrive. And part of the way that I thrive is that, you know, I like take a late afternoon siesta. You know, that's what you do in the heat. And I watched it in the afternoon and I made it until Owen Wilson and Tom Hiddleston were at the table kind of like having conversations

about, you know, time and free will in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. And then I fell asleep at some point during their conversation. Did you make it through that scene? No.

No. I actually, I was going to ask you how it ends. That's the one scene you can't fall asleep in not because it's important but because i thought it was good that was like i thought it was good too i i thought what i watched was pretty good i was particularly impressed by the production design and if like if you if you like this sort of show seems very well made good jokes funny performances i liked it, you know, when he had to sign everything

that he had ever said and then they kept like printing new things out. Very amusing. I just, this is just like a theoretical sci-fi like free will show is just like squarely not my interest. It was not my interest when I was an undergraduate in college

and it's like not my interest now. But that doesn't mean that it's not good for the other people. Yeah, I knew that going in. I only asked you to watch it as a kind of exercise to kind of talk about what these services are now. I do think that the show and there are deep and great conversations about the show on the Ringiverse podcast on the watch. You should check those out if you want to hear something that is significantly more detailed. It struck me as an interesting example of, I've been waiting 10 years for Owen Wilson to appear in a good movie, and he has not made a lot of good films recently. And I thought he was freaking fantastic on this show. And even if you're disinterested in the show, he's still extremely

well cast as this character. And that alone is enough for me to care. I wouldn't say I'm historically terribly interested in Loki. I did really like the 1970s style production design. It looked like they were in some sort of like library slash laboratory. And I did think that like the pacing and the flourishes were interesting, but also the show seemed to me like the ultimate streaming TV exercise as part of a broader universe, which is to say, and you may have missed some of this if you fell asleep,

but the second half of the show becomes kind of a clip show where they're basically like reviewing things that an alternate universe, Loki is doing or has done. And so the viewer is just seeing stuff they already know. And they're watching a character

it almost be like watching your own instagram live videos where you're like looking at your own performance which is the way that so many people live now is they post something and then they look at like how many people are engaging with what they posted and then they're measuring their their their validity and their value through that so i thought it was this really interesting example of like on the one hand a very very fun, well-cast, entertaining show. On the other hand, this kind of like brutal and a little bit sad example of like what our culture is, like the way that we see ourselves. It is absolutely incredible that it took Loki for you to understand Instagram anxiety and like social media. Like now you can go back and really understand what inside is all about because you

saw loki like that is pathetic thank you loki but yes loki taught you it's okay to be weird i guess but but yeah sure i mean the movies i'm sorry though that was like a freudian slip the television show also starts out with those with those clips as well they're used throughout and they're doing the it's the 2012 avengers movie right that they're showing at the beginning with the Tesseract you got to be impressed that I knew Tesseract that was very good yeah it's actually all of the Avengers movies because the premise of the film is something that happens when they go back in time I think in Endgame and then that's how the Loki like slips through time you know what I'm talking about where like the when he picks up the cube and he vanishes that's how the Loki like slips through time. You know what I'm talking about? Where like the, when he picks up the cube and he vanishes,

that's from the last Avengers film. Okay, cool. Anyway, I was struck of being like, oh, they just, they finally got into like full Avengers movie,

but just as a TV show. And that's like what they're doing here. And it's funny because if it were just a movie and two hours and they could tell me a story, I probably would have stayed awake. A theater would have helped in that case. But I've been like, OK, great. Now I know what's going on with Loki. But now they're using the movie in order to do a whole nother sideshow and bring in the more Marvel lore that I assume is coming in episodes two through however many you know like the the pattern of these shows

seems to be the pilot episode like cool world cool idea and then by episode three it's like here are the various characters and pieces chess pieces that we need to move around in order to advance you to the next stage of the marvel universe right that's absolutely right the other thing that gets more closely integrated is there's more action and more sort of like Marvel style CGI that starts to come into play. There was hardly any of that in this episode, except for one brief sequence towards the end, which you did not see. Still no natural light though.

Kevin Feige, just a fade of the natural world. Well, Eternals is coming. I know. Yeah, that's true. Eternals is coming. But you're right. In addition to it resembling Instagram in some respects, it also, that whole episode kind of like resembled a podcast. It was like two people talking about stuff that had already happened and stuff we've seen previously.

And so in a way, Marvel is becoming that ancillary content that we were just describing where it's like it is literally reflecting on itself in real time and like artfully and interestingly in my opinion but we we are we're stretched very thin on this kind of stuff and that's that's really what i'm saying i think when we get three more marvel movies this year plus loki plus the what if show plus the other shows that are coming later this year i wonder if we'll feel i know there are a lot of fans who will never feel up to the gills in this stuff. You know, they will never feel overloaded. But I wonder if general audiences will have a sense of exhaustion by not being able to keep up with everything or feel like they'll be able to connect the dots.

The Marvel movies did such a good job of saying, you really only need to show up for like the Avengers movies, the Captain America movies, and the Iron Man movies. And otherwise, you'll probably be able to keep everything balanced and in order for yourself. Now, there's a lot. There's just a lot. And there's only going to be more this year. And I assume you're going to continue to only check in when you feel like it's fundamentally necessary. Like for example, maybe Black Widow. I'll definitely see Black Widow. It still feels like the movies, you don't always have to do the homework. And the TV shows you kind of got to do the homework. And

it's a no homework summer for Amanda Dobbins. So that's just it's a no homework life really besides all the homework that you make me do. That's literally the opposite of my life. All of my free time I'm like how can I acquire more knowledge about this discipline I care about so deeply. And you're like

that's not homework. That's learning. Oh, okay. So what is the distinction? Homework is when you have to learn things that you don't want to. Okay, fair enough. The other thing that I think is relevant to this conversation is at a certain point, we're not going to be able to have 10 or 12 streaming services

that everyone is subscribed to. There's going to be a measure of consolidation. We've already seen a version of it with HBO Max Discovery and Warner Brothers being united with this reality TV, best known reality TV brand, essentially. What do you think, just guessing,

timeline-wise, when do you think we just guessing what like timeline wise when do you think we'll start to see significant dominoes like will netflix acquire a movie studio or a cable like what if netflix was like we want to buy i don't know bravo from comcast and we're willing to pay a hundred million dollars for it like do you think that there's a like a time horizon for a lot of this stuff a $100 million seems really cheap for Bravo. $500 million? I don't know. I'm just saying, Comcast, up your prices. Doesn't it depend on really when the parent companies decide to give up and sell off their various assets and they're no longer willing to

put in however much money? They don't want to have a loss lead or whatever. That's certainly the story with AT&T and HBO Max. But hasn't Universal been kind of rumored before Discovery and Warner Media, sorry, all of the proper nouns, and they're changing all the time. And I just am not up to date on my corporate synergies. But before that merger, there had been rumors that HBO Max or Warner Media and Discovery

might, not Discovery, excuse me, Universal might merge together to try to kind of take on the big guys, right? There had been some discussion about that. There has been discussion that maybe Universal would now try to acquire Paramount and Viacom. There's been some conversation that, you know know maybe amazon is not done and they want another studio to add to their mgm purchase like we're starting to see there's only a handful of available big studios left to pluck and the way that people do business now is kind of i mean sony really seems like the one that is out there where they have a lot of successful film franchises. They have like the Spider-Man films.

They have the Jumanji films, things like that, that are actually quite valuable. They have an active television business. This is the studio that produced Breaking Bad, for example. They're also part of a technology and electronics company. Right, I was going to say. Yeah, they sell actual things. Yes, but that company does not have a streaming service. And so ostensibly, and they have largely either sold off or withheld the majority of their films from the public

until the theaters are back open. And theaters are back now. But it's not so long ago that this was the studio that funded and released Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, right? I mean, this is like, they have had some successes in this respect. So I'm curious to see how it shakes out, to see if any of those studios get plucked, to see if any of these streaming services get smashed together. And then the other thing that will be consistent with that is

everything's kind of, I don't want to say cheap because your mileage may vary on what 1099 a month means to you, but most of these services are... And how many $10.99 you're paying. But they're still relatively affordable, especially when you put it in the context of, should you go to see In the Heights for $75 with you and your partner and a kid or two? Or should you just stay home and watch it for $15 a month? And that counts as just one thing screened over the course of a month. I do think at a certain point, stuff's going to start to get expensive and it's going to be cable again.

And it's going to be this service is $40, this service is $40, this service is $45. And then all of a sudden you're paying $280 a month for your streaming content. And you're like, how did I get here? And then we're right back where we started, I feel like. 100%. I mean, Andy and Chris have been talking a lot about this on The Watch and it really does feel like WarnerMedia discovery just is cable again, because I I'm not the sports expert, but my understanding is that there was a lot of sports licensing and sports rights in that bucket as well. And obviously

CNN is a part of that bucket. So you've got the news aspect and it's just like, Oh, okay. Uh, now it's cable. And I guess they're putting it together in a way that you don't need a cable box anymore. You just need a modem. But yes, of course, that's exactly what's happening and in large parts of the industry has already happened.

You just inspired me to add one more category to our exercise. Yeah, I knew you were- One sports league's rights. Okay. Figure it out. You can do it. I know what my answer should be

and I know what I want my answer to be, but... Should we do it? Should we just... Should we solve everyone's problems and just build the perfect streaming services? Yeah. Let's do it. What'd you think about my proposition here?

I thought it was pretty good. Oh, thank you. Should I explain what I've asked you to do? Yeah. So this isn't a draft per se, but we're both going to individually choose a collection of properties and people who could comprise the starting point for the perfect streaming service. So I have asked you to choose one of the following things to start building your service. One, a film studio library. Two, a TV network library.

Three, one key piece of intellectual property from which to spin off movies and television. A reality TV franchise. I've asked now for one sports league rights. A game show. Three tentpole stars under contract. One movie writer, director, producer under contract. One TV showrunner under contract. And one output deal with a smaller art house studio. That's 10 different things to draft. And then once we get through that,

we'll talk about pricing. We'll talk about launch. We'll talk about logo and name. Did you have any fun doing this? Was this a good exercise? Yeah, I did. Some I felt very certain about. I kind of instantly knew what I would want.

And some, I was mixed. I mean, you could go a lot of different ways. I'm scarred by the movie draft. And so it's like, am I trying to pick something that everybody wants? Am I trying to pick something that I want, which are usually completely opposite things? Am I trying to, and also am I trying to pick something that is commercially viable, which I think is definitely at odds with what I often want, but it is at odds

with what other people want more often than you would think. So at the end of the day, I think I just did what I wanted, but I'm trying to be smart. I expect nothing less from you than just doing what you want. Okay, let's begin. Why don't we just start with film studio library? Now, I feel like there's an obvious answer here. I'm wondering if you went with the obvious answer warner brothers oh see i did not did you do paramount no i did disney oh right well okay but okay so talk me through that what did you that's just really mean um what what did you why did you choose that studio well and i'm taking both warner brothers and also all of the libraries that uh warn has bought or acquired over the years, which includes, as we discussed in the Amazon MGM deal, like a lot of the really good old MGM movies. Yep.

So just a tremendous classics library. And I really do think right now HBO Max in terms of the actual service itself and the discovery is complete garbage but if you want to just open up an app and find something to watch their library is incredible library is absolutely incredible they have a ton of movies that I personally like I mean the Ocean's Eleven trilogy the um You've Got Mail A Star is Born Michael Clayton Before Sunrise Sunset you know like they have a ton of franchise movies also which I obviously don't care about but like Christopher Nolan movies DC movies I don't I don't know what's going on with like Harry Potter and Universal licensing but Harry Potter is on Peacock right now but we're taking it back for the purposes of my library I see so yeah there's just

a lot to work with and a lot to watch. And also, Bobby, just so you know, Casablanca is available on my streaming service. So perhaps you can finally watch it. Bobby is asleep. Don't worry. Bobby is feeling how you were feeling during Loki at the moment, given the depth of conversation about stock prices at streaming services.

Okay. I chose Disney. And it's not because I'm a child. It's because Disney made a significant purchase a couple of years ago called Fox. Oh, 20th Century Fox, yeah. So now they not only have the classic Disney library, which is fantastic,

and of course wonderful if you have children or just wonderful if you're a grown man like me and you want to fire up the film Avengers Endgame, but also they have Fox, they have 20th Century Fox, which of course has made, you know, hundreds of great films over the years. And I think there's a great case

for both of the ones that we picked. I'm really glad you picked Warner Brothers because it presents us with the opportunity to say, these are really, these are the one and two. These are the two titans right now in this space. And they are theoretically well positioned to succeed. I would say Warner Brothers has thus far struggled to spin off its IP as effectively as Disney. And I wonder if that's

because they have a streaming service, a streaming network, a cable network, a premium content network already that has its own distinct identity, which takes us to TV network library. So which TV network library did you go with? HBO. So did I. I mean, you have to. It's truly the best library. Now, I don't know that it's necessarily

the most valuable library. And that's probably worth discussing. Think about what NBCUniversal has in terms of legacy content around Friends and The Office and shows like that that might drive more viewers but i feel like the brain trust at hbo the prestigious historical library of the last 30 years and also just watching what happened with mayor of easttown i'm like wouldn't you just prefer to have that 10 out of 10 times they can still make hits and they still make the shows that people talk about and seek out

which i think is really useful you know again marketing launch whatever it's and and and the confusion around if i have hbo do i have hbo max and all of that stuff has i think maybe confused the conversion of oh i gotta watch mayor so I need to get this show, this service. But they have a lot of shows that people do still talk about in an era where people don't talk about anything. Also, I mean, it's Game of Thrones. It's Game of Thrones. It's Sopranos. It's Sex and the City. Just people watch those shows a lot. All of which are going to be back. Sex and the City will be back. There's a Sopranos movie coming out later this year. Game of Thrones, we know will be back. It will be back sex in the city will be back there's a soprano's movie coming out later this

year game of thrones we know will be back it will be back in full force in the next couple of years so that's the other thing is they have the actual library content is great but you know we got the friends reunion which candidly i did not watch but it was so weird it was like you should really just watch it for some Twilight Zone experiences. I was pretty taken aback by it. I don't, I'm already coping with my own concept of aging. I don't want to cope with other people's concept of aging. You know, like, I feel like that would be a pretty upsetting vision. Yeah, but it's as much about just kind of like being old in Hollywood and kind of what

like mega success and then like nothing else for 20 years does to a person, which like it's pretty much all of those people respectfully. I mean, they've done things, but that was like the highlight. And so it's sort of like, you know, like a high school reunion and all of the people who like really enjoyed high school now just being like high school was the best time of our lives. But it's it's quite something that sounds depressing i won't be yeah it really was let's go to one key piece of intellectual property okay this is interesting what'd you go with so this was this was tough for me because i had to you know grapple with my own standards for myself which means that all of the really popular ones absolutely not um excuse me i don't you're not you're no longer in charge of a streaming service

no but also with the warner brothers i library i've got harry potter and dc and you know like lord of the rings we're warner brothers movies so i'm right? So I can get a little frisky. Okay. Frisky, huh? I don't know. So obviously in my heart of hearts, I would like to do James Bond. But listen, I just, I can't go toe to toe with Barbara Broccoli every night. That's not how I'm trying to live my life.

That's not, respect to Barbara Broccoli, who is doing what she wants to do. And that's important. But as previously stated, I who is doing what she wants to do. And that's important. But as previously stated, I want to do what I want to do. And also, she's never going to let me open it on the streaming service. It's going to be theaters only. And she's never going to let me cast anybody besides a white guy, which, you know, it's just very strict.

No spinoffs. No fun to be had and i like kind of didn't want to enter the timeline where like getting rid of the broccoli family just like legally it's it's not kind of what we're doing here at my streaming service so i went with mission impossible franchise um so did i did you really oh that's so nice's so cute. Okay. Let's just make a shitload of spy shows. Spy movies, spy shows. Give me the backstory of every single spy in the division. Like tell me about their marriages, training, you know, whatever.

Give me full MCU treatment, but international spies. I'll watch everything. I want the prequel for all of the original cast in the first film. You know, I want to know what Kristen Scott Thomas's character was up to. I want to know what Emilio Estevez's character was up to. Emmanuel Bear. I want all that. I think you're exactly, that's exactly right.

I had the same thought. Not only do you get these kick-ass movies, obviously, there's a few more coming with Tom Cruise. If Tom Cruise ever dies, and he probably will not, but if he ever does die, he can hand the reins of Ethan Hunt to someone else. Maybe someone exciting. Do you know who it is, by the way? It's Emily Blunt,

who I actually think should be James Bond, but then she can just be the new star of the Mission Impossible franchise. We don't give Emily Blunt enough to do. We don't value her enough, and we don't give her enough to do. Thank you. I'm a huge fan. I don't know. When you say we, I don't... That enough to do thank you i'm a huge fan i don't know when you say we i don't

when you win an oscar one day you should just repeat those words to everyone thank you for this honor but we don't give emily blunt enough to do and i believe it um i i all that sounds great let's make her ethan hunn and James Bond simultaneously. I have no problem with that. But also there's a lot of TV possibilities. Mission Impossible started out as a television show. Every episode was about a mission. It was an impossible mission. This is a great premise for a TV show.

Why don't we have it? We don't have it because it's a valuable franchise right now for Paramount as a film property, but there's a lot more to do. Also Mission Impossible in history. Honestly, like you could have like nerd like medieval mission impossible if you want i don't care as long as they're spies just i love it spy yeah battling like the conquistadors you know uh attila the hun who what other you know in the in the in the renaissance painters getting bad battling

ethan hun shit that would be really good. You know, the Age of Enlightenment going to Voltaire toe-to-toe with Ethan. What if like Raphael is a spy? You know what I mean? Like that's what I'm saying. I love it. Just like it's, we could go forever. I love what we're doing here. Here's all that I ask.

The Mission Impossible franchise is probably worth north of $500 million on its own. Just give it to Amanda and I for free. Just give it to us. We'll do a great job, I promise. Okay, it to Amanda and I for free. Just give it to us. We'll do a great job. I promise. Okay, let's go to the next one. A reality TV franchise. So I know this is not necessarily your preferred realm of content, but I feel like you really need reality to work to make your streaming service work these days. I see how HBO Max is endeavoring to build reality

programming, but it's struggling because it's hard because that's not a part of their DNA historically. But if you look at NBC Universal, they obviously have access

to a lot of shows. Netflix has made great, has taken great pains to launch a ton of reality programming in the last two years. It's secretly why Netflix is as successful as it is

and why we get to watch all of like the Irishman. I think that's right. You know, everyone that you do know is actually watching all the reality right selling sunset and the circle and all that lava is the floor yes floor is lava the floor is lava yes right okay juliet loves that one so as much a game show as a reality show so but but these things all intersect So for you, what reality franchise, what property do you want access to? So I made a late minute change here and it's because I'm going to stretch the definition

of a later category and you're just going to have to go with me because as we said, this is what Amanda wants. But I've been very generous on this episode, I must say, you know, just very, just forgiving and open-minded and, you know, not restraining at all. I said that I appreciated your organization. Okay? So never forget that. Okay. I'll cherish it.

Okay. So I think I really need the Real Housewives franchise. Okay. Which I have only seen YouTube clips of. But I, Juliette Lipman, my friend and Jam Session co-host keeps me up to date on certain aspects of it, sends me the important gifts. And more to the point, like Bravo is an area where everyone I know, and I'm speaking about like women primarily, who don't really engage with anything else that you and I discuss on this or any other podcasts are dialed in on Bravo. And I feel like it is a major phenomenon and a completely iterable

franchise. And we'll bring an audience that is like, frankly, not really served by any other streaming services right now. So, and you know, I relate to that and I would like to make other things that I think this audience would want to watch, but getting them in the door with Real Housewives is important. Okay.

By the way, like, again, I have only seen bits of it and don't, you know, it's not an endorsement of being a housewife unless you want to be, you know, live your best life. My wife was a long-time consumer of the franchise and she has given up on it in the last few years interestingly but you're right that i think that especially the note that that's a that's an audience that is not discreetly served by any of these streaming services is pretty interesting i chose the real world and here's why the real world is a bit of a morbid franchise at the moment the actual show has kind of fallen out of out of habit it's not airing regularly i think there was a sense that it became more complicated with the advent of social media and things like hype house on the other hand it offers

two things one the opportunity to relaunch a well-known brand you hear the words the real world people know what that is maybe older, maybe younger people don't care, but there is a way to kind of steal back some of that Kwan, especially for this reason. I mentioned this when I talked to you about the Challenge All-Stars on Paramount+. On that show, they let people curse. And it was as if the veil had been lifted on this franchise. Famously, this show would show people kind of like rustling under the covers when they were making out,

but then nothing terribly explicit. They would show people start to get drunk, but then just as things started to get totally out of control, they had producers intervene. In a streaming environment where all the gloves are off, the real world and ultimately the challenge,

which is a part of the real world family, could get pretty gnarly. Now, would that create some base level cultural content? Sure. But we're talking about our reality franchise. We're talking about the reality show we need. So I'm going the real world because there's a lot of different shows you can make.

And frankly, I think debasing that franchise even further sounds great. So the challenge is part of the real world universe, right? It is because the participants are primarily... I assumed that you would do the challenge in this space or... So I get to have my cake and eat it too by picking the real world. Yeah. Smart.

Good job. Thank you. I like the real world. I visited the home in Seattle and the pier where they threw Irene's teddy bear into the water. Remember that iconic and confusing moment, truly one of the most astounding things I've ever seen on television. I was like nine years old.

And it was a Steven who slapped her. I think so. I don't, I'm again, I was nine years old and that's all I remember. Well, speaking of competitions, one sports league, the rights to one league.

It can be any sport around the world. What are you acquiring? Okay. So we just added this on air. So God, you're so tortured. Well, it's just sports. No, I know. But you know, this is how people actually like make money and, you know, win friends

and influence people. So I can't do the NFL. I'm really sorry. Number one, not international appeal. Also, I don't agree with all of the politics associated with it. And frankly, my life has been ruined by too many Eagles games. I can't endorse that. So I don't know whether I should do, if I do like, sorry to be an American. If I do soccer, do I have to do like a specific like Premier League?

I can't do just like European soccer. Okay. I don't know enough to do that on the spot. There's Serie A in Italy. There's Bundesliga that on the spot. There's Syria in Italy. There's Bundesliga in Germany. Right. There's the Premier League. Someone just signed the French League, right?

So Bobby asks a good question, which is, can she choose the Champions League? Which you can. The rights to the Champions League, which is an intercontinental experience. Oh, okay. So maybe I would do that one. And that's separate from choosing like world cup right correct the world cup rights are just distinct okay but could i choose world cup yes but then you only have programming once every four years because that euros doesn't like become a part of that i believe euros is every two years and those are separate rights as well i know the

euros are happening right now i haven't watched anything yet, but I told Chris I'm going to get really into it. But there's an international appeal to Champions League, which I do think is important. And I don't really know how international the rest of my slate is right now. NBA is the obvious one here in the US. And I also really enjoy the halftime program with Charles Barkley and Shaq. Been watching a lot of that. I don't know. What are you doing? I can't do tennis. Obviously, I want to do tennis, but no one cares. No one cares. You should just do what you want to do. I'm doing the NFL because what people want is the NFL. The NFL continues to be the most popular

sports league. It's also a league I, despite the moral and emotional complexities and frankly, my downright frustration with the team I've been rooting for since the day I was born, the New York Jets,

I still love watching football. But that's only half the year. Yeah, but there's a whole world of content you can put around it. Just look at the NFL network. They do a tremendous job programming that network. Some friends of the ringer,

Kyle Brandt, Peter Schrager. I guess I'm going to take NBA. I'm going to take NBA. Okay. I think it's a good choice. Yeah, that's honestly just because of how much my husband

just turns on the NBA app and how much NBC Sports Philadelphia I have watched in the past year. Go Sixers. Can't believe I said that out loud. I'd like to acquire on my streaming service the rights to just Metsers. Can't believe I said that out loud. I'd like to acquire on my streaming service the rights to just Mets games.

Okay. Not baseball writ large. Just Mets games. Loving the Mets this year, Amanda. They're doing good? They're in first place, yeah. Oh, that's good. I feel like the last time

I checked, they weren't. Well, they're back. God bless them. Let's go to our next category. A game show. One game show. Should show should i have taken champions league no i think you did i think you did the right okay all right you can get a lot of programming i'm really excited to get into the euros though there's nothing i love more than like turning on sports in the morning in the summer while i'm just like going about my business

um and it's on in the morning because i'm an american and it's in the morning in the summer while I'm just like going about my business. And it's on in the morning because I'm an American and it's in the Euros. I haven't really decided that yet. I got to check out the field a bit more. It's still in the group stage. As always, I'm pushing for Switzerland to honor my Swiss heritage.

We got a tie against Wales. That was not ideal. Okay. We got a huge match on Wednesday with Italy. I'm terrified. Okay. Could huge match on Wednesday with Italy. Oh, that is... I'm terrified. Yeah. Okay.

Could spell doom. We'll see. Anyhow. All right, game show. What do you got? This is the boundary that I'm pushing, and it's going to be

a competition game show and a really loose definition of competition in the Great British Bake Off. Yeah, I think that's legit. Okay. I think that's a game show. That's a great pick.

People love this show. They will watch all of it all of the time and then they'll watch it again and then like countless spinoffs are possible, including some that they've already done. I have a friend who's a great fan of the pottery spinoff of this show. Never seen it.

I've only seen maybe three episodes of Bake Off in my entire life, though I feel like it's on in my home 24-7. Yeah. So whenever I'm watching obscure Ken Russell films from 1975, my wife is invariably in another room enjoying Great British Bake Off. I am taking Jeopardy. Here's why. Yeah, Jeopardy rules.

Best show ever. Certainly. Something I Jeopardy rules. Best show ever. Certainly. Something I watch every single day. And something with countless hours. The library content, extraordinary. You will never run out of Jeopardy to show. And also, spinoff capabilities here. We've seen Rock and Roll Jeopardy.

We've seen Sports Jeopardy. They kind of fizzled. They didn't really work. Put them in my hands. Let me reimagine these spinoff properties. I feel like there is gold in those hills. Who will be your Jeopardy host? Oh my God. Will it be Aaron Rodgers live from Hawaii? Here's the thing. Let's set aside all the Aaron Rodgers mishigas over the last couple of months with the Packers. I thought he was authentically great on the show. Really? Now, I'm a fan of his in general. I find his demeanor, his very dry

sense of humor to be very funny. I've always just liked him as a personality in the world. I also adore watching him play football. I think he's the best I've ever seen. But as a host, I thought he was really good. I thought he brought the closest spirit of Alex Trebek that anyone else has, which is to say he wasn't that nice. Alex Trebek had a, had an enjoyably acid burn approach to hosting that show. He is erudite. He was not a mean person,

but if you were wrong, he would literally say, no, right. That's wrong. I enjoyed the, the forthrightness. So I dug Rodgers. Would he be my pick?

I'm not sure. I enjoyed Mayim Bialik, honestly. She surprised me how much I liked her. Oh, I didn't see her. The last couple of weeks. She's been good. I like Aaron Rodgers a lot and just thought he had not turned on the dial all the way to TV energy.

He was a little low energy. And there is dry humor, and then there is like, oh, I'm very relaxed right now, which is his vibe, even when he's not having a personal room spring up, which he has been for the last four months. We're very proud of him. But sure, whatever you want, Sean. It's your property. Well, I think it would be a great opportunity to market the show anew with Aaron Rodgers. Yeah.

I don't know if he'd necessarily be the absolute best host. I guess you have crossover if you have the NFL also, but will Aaron Rodgers be mad at the NFL and then not want to promote, you know? It's an interesting point. Thank you for drawing those two together. You got it. Synergy.

I'm undecided on who I want to be my host. I just want to put that out there. Okay. I need to see more. You know who was very good I thought was um Buzzy Cohen former Jeopardy champion Buzzy Cohen who hosted the tournament of champions actually was quite good he understood I think the energy and the rhythm and the pacing of the show he was doing a little bit of a Trebek impersonation nevertheless I enjoyed it okay so I'm going Jeopardy next category three tentpole stars under contract. I'm very curious to see what you did here. I wrote down six names and I was like,

I'll decide in the moment. And that was a terrible decision. I don't know what I was thinking. What'd you go with? No, you go first. You go first. I went right to our 35 under 35 list and I looked at movie stars.

These are the people that I want to see. And it's related to a future category that we'll talk about shortly. Here are my stars. Daniel Kaluuya, one. Never seen him in anything that I didn't like. He's on my short list. Yeah. Margot Robbie, number two. Also on my list. Oh, amazing. Robert Pattinson, number three. Oh, Pattinson's good. Now those are movie stars. Now maybe you were fools. Well, so. For casting them instead of Noah Centineo or whatever. So I'll do three others just to make it interesting. But like Kaluuya and Margot Robbie were absolutely on my list.

And Robert Pattinson isn't on this list of six people I've made. But I absolutely love Robert Pattinson. So I don't know whether. What I wanted to ask you is do these people then have to star in the movies that we're making with the other people that we're drafting do okay but we're not hiring them to keep them on the bench we're hiring them to make make use of them i might have to put daniel kaluuya on the real world just to make this deal okay they can do anything that we want. Think of this like the

1940s. They're a part of our studio. Yeah, okay. Alright, Charlize Theron, Timothee Chalamet, Oscar Isaac. Oh, that's good. Yeah. Oscar Isaac is mostly because when I rewatched Return of the Jedi for that draft, however, whenever we did it,

I was just like, wow, man, I just love Oscar Isaac. He's just, he is just- I believe you watched The Last Jedi. The Last Jedi, that's right. Because Return of is film six, but really the third in the original trilogy? That's correct.

Well done. Okay, yeah. Kudos to you. I can count. You're a regular Bob Chapek. Anyway, love Oscar Isaac. So, and then I also had, the other options I had were Daniel Kaluuya, Margot Robbie. I want to let everybody know that since Emily Blunt is already in my Mission Impossible series,

I didn't feel the need to account for her here. And The Rock is always good to have. I didn't think of him, but he would be a good pick. Yeah. He doesn't make as many movies I like as these other people. That's sort of the thing. Okay. Those are a good pick. Yeah. He doesn't make as many movies I like as these other people. That's sort of the thing. Okay. Those are all good picks.

Let's do one movie writer, director, producer under contract. Now, when I say this, I'm thinking of, you know, we've seen J.J. Abrams, for example, do all in deals with a studio where for X hundreds of millions of dollars, all of his properties go to that studio. So who'd you pick?

I just went with my heart, Greta Gerwig. That's nice. And because Soderbergh would be obvious, but we've had enough of that content. And also I have a lot of his movies under the Warner Brothers library. So Greta Gerwig, just run free. I went with Ryan Coogler. Here's why. Oh, that's smart.

Coogler has proven to us that he can do both. He can do mainstream intellectual property adaptation seamlessly, and he can also do original sincere storytelling. And now after seeing Judas and the Black Messiah, I see him as a producer and as a talent scout and as a shepherd on projects. So give me Coogler. One TV writer showrunner under contract. Who you got? Shonda Rhimes. It's a no-brainer. Great pick. It's just like the number one TV showrunner in the business. I can't believe that. Bridgerton is one of the only things I believe on Netflix is like actually one of the biggest hits of all time. Oh, yeah.

I completely believe that show. And Grey's Anatomy is still going and printing money. That's why. Because Grey's is still going and still printing money. I went with Scott Frank, you know? Oh, that's good. Yeah. So we kind of, we flipped. How so?

I feel like you did sort of like, Kugler can do both. Well, Kugler can do mainstream and prestige. And then you did someone sort of prestigey for TV. And Shonda can do both. And then I believe Greta can really can expand her horizons. And it's also a great talent scout. Little Women was a big hit.

Yeah. Scott Frank, of course, the creator of The Queen's Gambit and Godless on Netflix. He's one of the great screenwriters of the last 15 or 20 years. And I just want to buy out his file cabinet. I want to know what scripts he's got in there that he's been wanting to make. I want to have access to all of those stories. I want to put as many of them in production

as I possibly can because he's obviously a great writer and got a great sense of how to draw attention to things. But now anytime you produce one of his shows, you can say from the creator of The Queen's Gambit, which we know is one of the biggest hits of 2020. Right. So that's my pick there.

Okay. Next category. This is the last category. This is the last thing you can do. An output deal with a smaller art house studio. So, you know, the obvious one here is A24. But I, and I like many of the films that A24 has produced and I think they're great, but I'm not going to go with it a little bit because I feel

like you will. And also because they already have a deal with Apple. And so, and that seems a little bit confusing. So I was thinking about what I don't have and I don't have a lot of international appeal. So you could pick a, you know, sort of, this is another thing. Are we doing pure like production companies? Are we doing distributors? Whatever you want, whatever you think.

But, but so someone who specializes in, you know, international films of which there are some, but I also don't have a lot of documentaries and I could use some documentaries. I think those do really well in streaming. So, so this is weird, but I'm going with Participant because they did American Factory, one of my favorite movies of the last however many years, and a documentary. They also did RBG, which was not my favorite

despite loving Ruth Bader Ginsburg and thinking that she's an American hero, but that movie was quite successful. You know, they do script it as well, and some of the films are very successful, and some I would rather not be associated with, but you take the good and the bad. So Participant, there you go. This is also a company that makes its projects with hopes to spur social change, so you can feel good about the moral valence of your output deal. I'm less interested in that, so I will go with A24

because I want the lighthouse on my streaming service. Simple as that. That's good for you. Love the lighthouse. Does it come with the lighthouse that you still didn't, the light? The light from the lighthouse? Yeah. Which is eight feet tall and 8,000 pounds.

Yeah. And I did not realize. It does, fortunately for me. Thank you to A24 for delivering that to my house. Where would I put it at my house now you've been to my home um i think that you should just make it the centerpiece of your back deck you know because you can see it from anywhere um and then just arrange life around it and also it can be a beacon to the people of the world the lighthouse fans of the world who want to come visit i can turn on the light and they can come and visit me and be a part of my religion, frankly, my faith. When is my Lighthouse pod?

Whenever you want it to be. You control the spreadsheet. That's well put. Much like the Lighthouse master, I control the spreadsheet. Okay. So those are our 10 deals that we need to cut to launch this service. But there are some other choices we have to make. Here's the first one, the price plan. What are you charging people to get all of this wonderful content? I just sort of picked a number. No, this is not true. I actually, I picked a number that's $1 less than Netflix's standard streaming.

Netflix is $13.99 for standard streaming, at least according to the Google search result that I just did. And in retrospect, I should have triple checked my sources. And also I have absolutely no idea what I, Amanda Dobbins, am paying for Netflix. But anyway, $12.99. That's what I'm going with.

That sounds pretty good. Lower than HBO Max. A little bit higher than, you know, Peacock and certainly Disney plus, but we're going for a prestige bent here. Also, there will be no ads. There's not even the mention of ads.

Get your ads out of my life. Hulu. I'm paying you all this money for the premium content and you still give me ads. What's going on? I have no response. Advertising is a significant part of Spotify and the ringers programming strategy.

So please respect that. Okay. But that's what I'm saying. And my streaming service, that's one of the features. I also included a no ads rider to my service. My price point is $14 and 99 cents. However,

however, you can get a three-year subscription locked in at that price. Because unlike a lot of these streaming services, you say you don't know what you pay for Netflix, for example. I couldn't tell you exactly what I pay for Netflix either. Because the price creeps. Creeps up over time.

You know, they have to raise those prices over time. The more Bridgertons they launch, the more Shonda deals they cut, the more money they need and the more consumers gotta deals they cut, the more money they need and the more consumers got to pay. So for $14.99, you can get the NFL,

the Disney Library, Jeopardy, all of Daniel Kaluuya's works, the television series of Scott Frank for $14.99 from today until June 15th, 2024. Pretty good deal. It's, that's true.

Especially if you're an NFL fan. If you're not an NFL fan, then you're paying some extra money for only six months of content. I have good news for you. For three years and you're locked in. Eight of the 10 highest rated television programs of 2020 were NFL games.

So I'll be in good shape. I know that. So what about a launch property? You got to have a splashy launch for your service. What's the first thing you're putting out in the world? So is this existing? Like, is this supposed to be real things that I've acquired in this lineup? Or I can make anything up?

Anything you want. You could say, I would launch on the day of the NBA finals. You could say I would, I putting this movie in motion. You could say, I am going to have Shonda make a TV show. That's about X, Y,

Z. Okay. Well, I would know I would launch for the NBA playoffs and I would launch with the play in games, which at least one of which were very successful because I watched it. But you would have to guarantee that LeBron James and Steph Curry would be playing in that game. There's no way to know that. I mean, this is a different podcast for a different time,

but are we sure that there's no way to know it? I'm just asking questions. Just asking questions. Are you saying that the league is fixed? No, I'm just asking questions. Wow, just a shocking revelation. So I would start with the play in questions. Wow. Just a shocking revelation. So I would start in, I would start with the play in game.

Okay. Full NBA playoff and finals coverage. And also would launch Shonda's and a Delvey show, which I'm really looking forward to adapted from the Jessica Pressler article in New York magazine. You'll have a mission impossible movie ready for you to go, and we will get all of the Harry Potter movies back from Peacock just for the kids, just so you know. We're calling back that licensing deal, plus several great British

bake-off, all of the back seasons, obviously, and several new shows. I wonder if I can get... Sorry, I was just thinking about how Harry and Meghan are signed to Netflix and if I can get Harry to host a season of The Great British Bake Off. He would do it. And what else do I have? I don't know. I think that's a lot. I think you did a great job. I only booked one thing. So I just did that all on the fly in case you couldn't tell. I think you did a nice. You have a future in programming. That's all I can say. I too will be launching with a Mission Impossible film.

This will be Mission Impossible 10. We're going to let Tom Cruise make seven, which is coming later this year. And then eight, which is already on the books with Chris McQuarrie. We'll let him go out on nine. That is farewell to Ethan Hunt. We're bringing in Coogler. We're bringing in to Ethan Hunt. We're bringing in Coogler. We're bringing in Kaluuya. We're bringing in Margot Robbie.

And we're bringing in Robert Pattinson as the bad guy. Let's make this movie. That's a great one. M-I-X, Mission Impossible 10. In addition to that, we will be launching with the kickoff of the NFL season. NFL season kicks off on a Thursday night. Friday night, you get M-I-X.

Sound good? That sounds pretty good. I would only watch the Mission Impossible movie, but congratulations to all the sports fans. Here's what you get on Saturday. 24 hours of Jeopardy. The ultimate Jeopardy marathon. Okay.

Sometimes I just get nervous that you don't go outside, but okay. I think those are pretty good launches. We've got really one more thing we need to do here. We need a logo and we thing we need to do here. We need a logo and we need a name for our services. This is the first. I knew instantly, instantly what mine would be.

Okay. What is it? Amanda Vision. Obviously. And the logo is the Avengers A with just enough change that I can't get sued. That is downright crazy. It's way too many syllables first of all. It's right there.

Congratulations. AmandaVision. That sounds great. Here's my name. Stream. Okay. that's just absolutely terrible seo the worst seo that i've ever heard in my entire life how are you gonna find it or is it the greatest okay because when people just type in streaming every time they're gonna get me you know why they're gonna get me because i have the nfl okay they need me. So I already am at a starting

stop. I'm out front because I've got football. So every time people type streaming, they're going to get me. Here's my logo. The NFL logo? That's honestly a much better idea. So Bobby is asking, am I going gonna spell it in a stupid startup way or just normal stream good note bob let's say i spell it s-t-r-e-e-m how would that go i really don't like you right now i was like please okay you're gonna like me in a second here's the logo there is a famous painting that i like that i think you like too it's called

spectrum four it's an ellsworth kelly painting that features the primary colors the colors are in color bars yeah which of course is also something we know from you know television programming you see the color bars but all we're going to do the bars are running vertically yeah we're just going to turn the painting one tick 90 degrees to the right. Okay. And they're going to be in bar format. It's going to look almost like a flag. Yeah.

Yellow to yellow. Yellow on top. Green to orange. Blue to red. Purple in the middle. Okay. Stream. S-T-R-E-E-M.

Who says no? $14.99 for three years. No one. No one would ever say no. I did it. Who says no? $14.99 for three years. No one. No one would ever say no. I did it. I built the perfect streaming service. I'm sure that all the NFL fans will really appreciate the Ellsworth Kelly reference. Well, that's for me.

That's not true. Actually, I'm looking at... I have the Ellsworth Kelly stamps framed. My sister-in-law gave them to me. I'm looking at it right now. It would look lovely. And you know that the stamps indicate that a broad swath of America loves Ellsworth Kelly.

So who am I to say whether NFL fans can love him too? We did it, Amanda. We have created the two greatest streaming services. As usual, we are available to receive vast sums of money to make these changes happen in our entertainment landscape. Any parting shots on Loki, Infinite, In the Heights' box office, or the streaming service that we've created?

I just really don't think you appreciated AmandaVision enough. That's really good. I think it is truly crazy sounding. It makes you sound like Charles Foster Kane. It does have a real Vaughn Villanelle element to it. I couldn't get James Bond,

but at least I have Amanda Vision. Amanda, thank you. Thanks to our producer, Bobby Wagner, for his work on this episode. Later this week, I'm going to welcome back my pal, Alex Ross-Perry.

We're going to talk about a very specific genre of movie, which is the misunderstood, the lost, the not even known classic from great filmmakers. And then Amanda and I will be back to talk about something. that is yet i don't yet know we'll see you then