The Big Picture - ‘M3GAN,’ Plus Five Shocking Awards Season Twists

Episode Date: January 13, 2023

With the SAG, PGA, and DGA nominations out, Amanda and Sean analyze the results and what they mean for an increasingly confusing awards season (1:00). Then, they dig deep into the first box-office hit of 2023, the hilarious killer doll horror movie ‘M3GAN’ (36:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody? It's Austin Rivers from the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's a new year and I have a new podcast here at The Ringer, Off Guard, hosted by me and my guy, Pasha Higigi. Austin and I go way back and talk so much hoop already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on all of these conversations. Every week, Pasha and I will hit on the biggest stories happening in the league. And get Austin's perspective of someone currently hooping in the NBA.

Tap into Off Guard every Friday on the Ringer NBA show feed, on Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit Superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins.

And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Megan! And also award... I can't even get it out. And also other award-winning feature films. A little later in this show, Amanda and I will break down Blumhouse's smash killer doll horror hit. But first, we are recording as Oscar voting commences. Today is the first day of Oscar voting in 2023.

The Golden Globes took place on Tuesday night. And we've got this trundle of Guild nominations to sort through as we analyze the Oscar race even further. Yesterday, we got the Screen Actors Guild nominations. We also got the Directors Guild of America nominations.

And just as we've begun recording, we got the Producers Guild nominations, which we are going to talk about right now. Yes. And I haven't looked yet. I looked. I told you not to look. And I haven't looked yet. I looked. I told you not to look.

And then I kind of didn't understand the timing that we were doing. And I read them in my email. But that's okay. You screwed me over. No, because no one cares about my reaction. My reaction is like, huh. And yours is going to be very intense. But before, have you looked?

I have not looked yet. Okay, before you look, I think that we should just say you are a member of the Producers Guild. I am. And you did vote. I did. And do you want to share with the world how you voted? Sure. I voted using the list of 300 feature films that I watched in 2022 that I compile every year.

And so my top 10 of the year, which I shared on Twitter on New Year's Eve, as I always do. Right. There's a great story behind that one that we can share another time. That is what my voting was. So split infinitives straight to the PGAs. Pretty much.

What a journey for me. And did you consider changing your top 10 at all for PGA or you just, you voted from the heart? I voted from my soul. Okay. And here was my top 10 at all for PGA or you just, you voted from the heart? I voted from my soul. Okay. And here was my top 10 for 2022. Number 10, Decision to Leave. Number nine, The Banshees of Inisharan.

Number eight, Barbarian. I don't believe Barbarian will be nominated here today. I'm going to tell you right now, Barbarian did it. Okay. Number seven, The Fablemans. Number six, Armageddon Time. Number five, Babylon. Number four, All the Beauty and the Bloodshed.

Number three, Top Gun Maverick. Number two, Tar. And number one, Jordan Peele's Nope. So that was my list. Okay. I counted how many you got. Well, tell me before I look, how many did I get? Four.

Okay, that's pretty good. All right. That's like- You feel okay about that? I'm quasi-populist, quasi-hipster, quasi-weirdo. Which four do you think you got? I believe I got Tar. Yes.

Top Gun Maverick. Thank God, yes. The Fablemans. Yes do you think you got? I believe I got Tar. Yes. Top Gun Maverick. Thank God, yes. The Fablemans. Yes. And the Banshees of Inishare. Correct. So that means Babylon was not nominated. Fuck!

God damn it! Did you think it was going to happen? I don't know. You think producers look at Babylon as a success? Yeah, it looks like a tough movie to make, man. Sure. You know what producers do? Right.

They help make this stuff happen. Right. But then they also want to make money that's historically the pga awards do celebrate movies that are successful in some way or another and i think you and i to a lesser extent but we do both believe that babylon is artistically successful i yes i certainly do right but i think that's the only way that it can be considered successful right now it has not made a lot of money at the box office let's put it that way should i try to guess the other six nominees yeah okay this is fun this is great podcasting see you wanted to keep it fresh we're keeping it fresh okay everything ever all at once correct, the way of water. Correct. Uh,

your favorite movie of the year that we had a lovely conversation about afterwards. Cause you are always excited to see me at the movies and you take time after the screening to say hello. Take it to paradise. Elvis. Oh, Elvis.

Okay. Of course. Elvis. Sure. Uh, I want to say there's going to be one like populist movie on the fringe. It like glass onion. Yes, Elvis. Okay. Of course, Elvis. Sure. I want to say there's going to be one populist movie on the fringe. Glass Onion? Yes, correct.

Women Talking? No. There's one that I really don't think you're going to get. I'm surprised to see it. And then there's one. Intriguing. And then there's one that I think makes sense, even though you and I did not feel that this was ultimately a successful movie. And it's a big ticket.

Wow. Is Black Panther Wakanda Forever? Correct. Oh, wow. That's very interesting. Correct. Oh, my goodness. This is why.

This is fun. Yeah. Okay. So you have. What about the menu? Did that make it? No, it didn't. Okay.

You're getting closer. I thought there was a chance that that was going to make it. I'm getting closer. With the menu? Mm-hmm. I'm sure it didn't. Okay. You're getting closer though. I thought there was a chance that that was going to make it. I'm getting closer. With the menu? Mm-hmm. I'm sure there's an obvious one that I'm just not thinking of. No, it's not obvious. And you hated this movie.

Oh, my. Yeah. I hated it. Yes. Not The Sun. No, but close. Free guy not eligible, right? Free guy not eligible.

We have the correct title structure also. The... I don't know. What is it? Whale. Really? Yes. Although to your point.

Yeah. A film that is having some success at the box office. Yes. Huh. What a weird. All right.

So let's just read the list for the listeners who are not playing along this game with us. So from the top, the Daryl F. Zanuck Award for Outstanding Producer

of Theatrical Motion Pictures. The nominees are Avatar, The Way of Water, The Banshees of Inisharan, Black Panther, Wakanda Forever, Elvis, Everything Everywhere All at Once, The Fablemans, Glass Onion, A Knives Out Mystery,

Tar, Top Gun Maverick, and The Whale. Now this is for the Producers Guild of America Awards. Of course, for anybody who's listening and is confused right now, there are a number of Guild Awards. These are not Critics Awards. These are people who are inside the industry who vote very specifically on these awards from the point of view

of their role in the business. Producers are a big body, not as influential to the specific individual races, but they do, they're very influential

in the Best Picture race. And they often match. I didn't do any math ahead of time. I don't remember. We have talked about this in previous episodes about how closely

they do tend to match on Best Picture nominees and 10 being the year. There will be 10 guaranteed this year. I definitely don't have the whale or glass onion in my race right now, in my top 10. Nor do I. But with the exception of Tar, which I think we collectively and you specifically have been underrating in the Best Picture race. I'm just going to say that now on January 12th, 2023. But with the exception of Tar, these are movies that have been seen a lot. This is like these are the box office get people to theaters. Even Glass Onion, which was only in theaters for a week. And just a lot of people have seen these movies. Yeah, but like the whale over the woman king, that's kind of funky.

Well, I mean, I agree. The woman king. It's a big blow for the woman king. I think that's kind of the end of the woman king trend. It was also not nominated at the SAG Awards in ensemble, which I thought would have been a great opportunity. So that's tough. I really liked the woman king.

As I think about this, I may have actually, I don't think I did vote for Decision to Leave because it's just American features. So I'm trying to think of what the other, it must have been Everything Everywhere All at Once or maybe Pearl, like whatever was near the top on my list. Pearl did also not nominated here, unfortunately. Where is Mia Goth?

When will she be recognized for her greatness? This is an odd list. So you want to do SAG and DGAs? Yeah, let's break those down. So SAG, a couple of notable things before we get into all this. The SAG Awards this year, which are airing in a month,

are airing on Netflix's YouTube channel. Netflix has acquired the rights to the SAG Awards, which for many years had aired on TNT and had been open and out in the wild and available to purchase for a long, long time. And next year, we'll see the show telecast on Netflix's airwaves.

It's streaming airwaves. But this year, they aren't able to get it going in time. They don't have the mechanism, so they're just doing YouTube. So it's on YouTube. That's maybe a bigger conversation down the road, but Netflix hosting award shows is a fascinating conflict of interest and in ways that are, that feel different somehow from Comcast hosting or Warner Brothers hosting a, a, especially a streamer as dominant and disruptive as Netflix, raises a lot of questions. Not that I distrust their ability to operate fairly, but we'll know pretty quickly if they're operating fairly based on the nominations next year. Maybe also they're just giving up on awards.

It's possible, although... I doubt that they are. I don't think they're going to give up on awards. They may not make the same push. The SAG Awards historically have been very generous to Netflix. So that's something worth keeping in mind. And we'll talk about that here with these nominations. There are a few nominations that are a bit odd and unexpected in part because Netflix often does well at this show. I think in part because Netflix does well by actors and employs a lot of actors. Right. So anyway, let's go through the nominations. Motion picture cast. That's ensemble. This is the big award here. The nominees are Babylon, Banshees, Everything Ever Old Once, The Fablemans and Women Talking. Were you surprised by this? megacast including Margot Robbie and Brad Pitt and Diego Calva and I think a lot of people who

are liked by other actors and also very starry and there is always a little bit of this thing with the SAG awards which is like people are nominated people they like but also people that they want to be you know there's a little aspiration in all of them so margot robbie and brad pitt are two of the most successful movie stars even though margot robbie's last two uh movies about you know old-timey hollywood have tanked barbie coming it's all good yeah it's fine i i support margot robbie uh women talking is not surprising because it is like the definition of an ensemble film. But I think if it hadn't been nominated here, it would have been it. So this is like, it's just barely hanging on.

I believe what's most notable about that Women Talking nomination is that there were no individual nominations for the cast amongst SAG. Not a good sign. There was an expectation, particularly that either Jesse Buckley or Clara Foy were competing for Best Supporting Actress, and they're not nominated here. So that's not great. I guess, to me, for Babylon, it means Babylon's not dead yet, even though it didn't get the PGA nomination and it didn't get a DGA nomination, which we'll get into shortly. It's not dead yet.

It's not dead yet. I do still think that it could be like the surprise 10th. Right. You you you compared it to Nightmare Alley recently, which I thought was wise. That feels very, very plausible. Other notable takeaways. We don't have to run through every single category, but what jumped out to you from these nominations? So the female actor in a leading role one is very strange seems like actors really like blonde or at least anna darmus's performance colin farrell really likes blonde not a joke yeah no not a joke not a joke i know that was what he said i was quoting cam remember because

people like started laughing nervously when he was like i sobbed myself to sleep at your performance and then described like the exact shot love col Colin Farrell. Well, because he delivers everything that he says as if it's like off the Blarney stone, you know, like it was engraved into the book.

He's like, I solved myself to sleep. Like he's so like delighted by these terrible, painful, traumatic ideas. I got some good feedback on your voice work as Elvis. Oh, thanks.

I think we might need to work on the Colin Farrell voice work for the next six years. The Irish thing is hard because I have actual Irish relatives and I've been very proximate to the Irish accent,

but it's very easy to fuck up. Yeah. And I've never been very good at it. It's not quite there. Anyway, Ana de Armas is also nominated

for a SAG award. I thought Ana de Armas was very good in one of the most excruciatingly bad movies that I've seen in the last five years. So if the other actors want to nominate what she had to go through

to achieve this, that's fine with me. I am in a long text exchange right now with a friend of this show who I will not identify. Who has appeared on this show who loves blonde. Do I know this person?

You have recorded a podcast with this person. I will not reveal the person's name. Okay. And this person is head over heels for blonde. Well, are you going to reveal this person to me after the podcast? It's Bill Simmons. Are you protecting this person's identity from me?

I think it's reasonable. I mean, if this person wants to come on and sing its praises, they are invited to come on. Yeah, good luck. Okay. Yeah. You won't be appearing? No, no, no. I was just going to say you're coming into the Thunderdome.

You think things have been tough for me before now? Just wait. Yes, I did note that I am not a fan of the movie, nor were you. Yeah. Anna de Armas could, could, could, could get in. The issue is really Michelle Williams being rejected by SAG. Right. After making a decision that we and virtually every other pundit in America

were left scratching our heads about, which was why did you run in Best Actress when you almost certainly would have won Best Supporting Actress and now may not even be nominated for Best Actress for her work in The Fablemans? The confusing thing here is that Paul Dano was nominated for Supporting Actor for The Fablemans? Weaker field, in my opinion. Sure. But respectfully, and it's a little bit the part itself and the film and also perhaps my interpretation. I prefer his performance. To hers?

Yeah, I do. Okay. Well, I guess that's a different kind of part. It's a different performance and it's not the fun part. It's not the showy part. That's true. But, you know, even within the Fablemans, you have Judd Hirsch, who just gives kind of like a quintessential, extremely memorable. Very showy. Supporting performance. So I think Paul Dano and no one else from the Fablemans, except for, you know, and then the Fablemans was also an ensemble, which we should say Outlook is like looking better

for the Fablemans. Absolutely. I was a little, I thought that was weird. That's all. I wasn't expecting it. It is, it's a, supporting actor is not a category we've talked about very much thus far. It feels like Kiwi Kwan has it locked up, and that's maybe part of the reason why we haven't spent a lot of time on it,

especially because it seems like Barry Keoghan and Brendan Gleeson will split each other's votes. Paul Dano, you know, if Michelle Williams is the sale of the movie, he's the anchor, and they need each other for the film to operate. I agree with you. And I think it's notable that the movie, he's the anchor and they need each other for the film to operate. You know, I agree with you. And I think it's notable that the movie effectively ends with him and not with her. Yeah. And ultimately, is he more engineer?

Is he more artist? And that that that swaying question that operates throughout the film. I think, frankly, like a lot of people left that movie. I say this with no disrespect whatsoever, but left that movie maybe not really liking michelle williams's character yeah and that often can influence how we vote on someone it doesn't mean she's a bad person it doesn't mean his memory of hers is as as a bad person but she's eccentric and there's something purposefully off-putting about the construction and that might be contributing to this as well don't know for sure like. Like, Paul Dano gets to have a quiet, noble moment at the end of the movie.

And she doesn't really get to have that. You know, she strikes him in the film. She cheats on her husband in the film. She does things that... I guess so. But she also is like the artistic, you know, soul and inspiration. And it sees something in him that no one else does. It's true.

I've been thinking a lot about the moment... I believe Paul Dano and the the young spielberg character are having a fight and then she walks into the room and just like stands up on the piano bench and goes i started therapy with her arms up in the air and i that's one of the funniest things i've seen it was that's really good yeah that's a good movie i don't i'm not really bent out of shape about it making a little bit of a comeback a couple things that we noticed here no Top Gun Maverick

and no Avatar the Way of Water now obviously these are the box office titans of the year they are on the PGA list I feel quite strongly that they'll both be nominated I think the show needs them it's starting to feel a bit like they may not win anything other than below the line that they'll both be nominated. I do as well. I think the show needs them. Yeah.

It's starting to feel a bit like they may not win anything other than Below the Line. That is the Academy's choice and I don't agree with it, but that's what you're going to do. You know, genius is not recognized in its own time.

Yes. That's why we pray that one day someone will look back at these episodes that we've recorded and listen closely to them as we talk through

lists of actors' names gosh any other anything else notable I mean Eddie Redmayne what's going on there I don't know that's another thing

where I guess like other actors like Eddie Redmayne I don't really know they do really like him he seems like a nice gentleman. You know what my take on, uh,

the good news, good nurse was. Yes. Cause you shared it on this podcast, but sure. It's not good. I wanted to know what happened. Just read the Wikipedia about the real life story that it's based on.

I didn't want to. Remember when Sam Esmail came in here and he, by the way, Sam is not the person I was referring to. Okay. I didn't, no, I didn't think it was Sam. I, I trusted Sam. Remember when Sam Esmail came in here? And by the way, Sam is not the person I was referring to. Okay. No, I didn't think it was Sam.

I trusted Sam. Remember when Sam came in here and he was like, the good news was good and you guys are mean? What the hell was that? I said that I wanted to know what happened. You guys are so weak. He also. Step it up. Whatever. Adam Sandler was nominated for Hustle?

Hell yeah, he was. You're goddamn right he was. Sandman. SAG Awards. This is great. Have Adam Sandler at your awards show. Why not? I agree. I don't think he's getting into best actor, but it had me thinking about a couple of things. One, I watched the actors round table after many people told us to that the Hollywood Reporter does every year. Scott Feinberg moderated this year. It was a great

collection of voices among them. Colin Farrell, Kiwi Kwan, Brendan Fraser, and Adam Sandler was participating. He's on the trail again. Absolutely. And I get the impression he kind of digs doing this stuff. Most people look at this stuff

with such contempt. If you talk to actors privately, this is a pain in the ass. This is a lot of work, especially if you have done it many times before. It seems exhausting. Sandman is just chilling.

He's showing up in like a parka and a hoodie and he seems delighted. Itman is just chilling. He's showing up in like a parka and a hoodie and he seems delighted. It does seem like he has a unique ability to pick and choose. And he does only what he wants to do out of these shenanigans.

And he doesn't like really have to campaign or work for it. He's just like, sure, I'll go to the Gotham Awards and read a funny speech. Like that seems fun. I'm saying this right now to the SAG Awards. Okay. If you can't get Adam Sandler to do the

I am Adam Sandler and I am an actor intro, like, what the fuck are you even doing? Go home. You don't deserve your Netflix contract, okay? Be bold. Did you see the film Hustle? I did. I watched it with my parents.

Oh, good. My dad and Angela. I loved it. It was good. Are you kidding the film Hustle? I did. I watched it with my parents. Oh, good. How did it go? With my dad and Angela. I loved it. It was good. Are you kidding? Yeah, it was good. I had to explain to my dad who Freeway was halfway through the... Well, because I wanted to explain the significance... Pride of Philadelphia. Yeah, of course. To Zach. You know, Zach wasn't there.

Also, we were listening to it at three times the volume that it needed to be. So, as my son slept upstairs. You were listening to his debut album, Philadelphia Freeway? I was listening to the film Hustle, but then suddenly like Freeway was like echoing through the house. And then it's like, I'm going to need you to turn that down. And also let me give you some cultural context

on the import of this to the Philadelphia and the 76ers. I need to know if your mom knows who Petey Crack is. No, she does not. Okay, that's too bad. All right, let's keep talking. So the thing that the Sandler nomination struck in my mind is if Tom Cruise is in fact vulnerable

and he was not present at the Golden Globes and he is not nominated here and so we had been assuming that he would be nominated for Best Actor, that's no given. I kind of, I wasn't assuming that. Were you assuming that? I was, I was.

I was not. I thought Top Gun was very strong strong but i think that there is still some weirdness around him there could be and if there is and also the academy has changed a lot since the jerry mcguire days i was listening to the sideways rewatchables okay yes i was on that podcast sure and it first of all there was just like a long tangent about the 2004 oscars and million dollar baby and i was remembering our draft and when i took million dollar baby from chris at the last that was really fun do you remember this yeah and people had pointed out to me on twitter that we nagged sideways which i don't remember um i have only seen sideways once and i like fell asleep but i really love the Santa Barbara wine country area.

So, and I'm enjoying your rewatchables. You have also joined me in that area in the past. You noted that Tom Cruise was passed over for Collateral this year, which he's really good in and that's Michael Mann. So, the other actors have- Yo, Holmes, is that my briefcase? Yeah. He's only been nominated twice, I want to say? Born on the Fourth of July, Jerry Maguire, and Magnolia. Okay, three times, yeah.

Maybe four. There might be a fourth in there. But not a lot. Not a lot. Not an overwhelming number, given his... And that was even before The Couch and The Troubles. So, you know, I haven't... I don't think he's a lock.

Okay, if he's not a lock, the person i think is could get in his palm of scale okay and i could see it there's there are always a few surprises i i think we have to remember that the academy in the last five years has had a bunch of surprises in categories that we're not necessarily expecting and we're about to talk about the dgas and i think we're we should plan for a surprise there as well because one always comes. But the low hum of support for After Sun continues apace. I think that's a film that has a chance to rise in this interregnum now. Now we have two months of full stop campaigning as the vote is taking place. Critical support is huge for that film.

There are also a lot of passionate people in the industry. Barry Jenkins foremost among them. He helped produce the film. A lot of people love it. A lot of people really like Paul Muskell. He's also now just been cast in two huge projects. My guy is Gladiator 2. He's the second Gladiator, I assume.

I don't know. Have they shared details? I think the character's name is Gladiator 2. Okay, great. If I'm reading this right. And he's in the Richard Linklater Marilee We Roll Along 20-year project. Yes, he's replacing Blake Jenner. Blake Jenner?

Is that the guy's name? I think so. Okay. I have mixed feelings about that, but I'm happy for Paul Mescal. I want anybody that I think is cool, Paul among them, to work with Richard Linklater. I agree with that. So I'm on board with that. Everything else...

Isn't Ben Platt. Also in that movie, no shots to Ben Platt, but I'm still not over Dear Evan Hansen. I have not recovered. I maybe never will. I couldn't say. Also,

Paul Muskell appearing in the forthcoming Benjamin Millipie adaptation of Carmen. Right. With Elsa Pataki. What's going on with that movie? Elsa Pataki. Yeah. I believe she is she married to Chris Hemsworth.

Yes. And she just, she goes around Chris Hemsworth? Yes. And she just she goes around Bondi Beach without shoes on. I believe the titular Carmen is played by Melissa Barrera

though from In the Heights and Scream. Oh, great. I'm a fan of hers. Okay. Okay. Why are we talking

about this? Paul Muskell. He might be nominated. We'll see. Okay. I didn't really have a ton more takeaways. I mean, Hong Chao

being nominated for The Whale I guess is notable. No Dolly DeLeon, no women talking actors there. And then Daniel Deadweiler, who I think has a strong chance to be nominated at the Oscars and who gives a great performance in that movie.

Okay, let's talk DGAs. So the DGAs, we'll just focus on the film stuff. There's two categories I think are relevant here. One, of course, is feature film and the other is first-time director. So the feature film nominees for director are Todd Field for Tar, of course, is feature film and the other is first-time director. So the feature film nominees for director are Todd Field for Tar,

Joseph Kosinski for Top Gun, The Daniels for Everything Everywhere All at Once, Martin McDonagh for The Banshees of Innocent

and Steven Spielberg for The Fablemans. I've never been able to have every single nominee in this category on the show in one year. And this is the year I've gotten closest.

I was fortunate to have Todd Field, Joseph Kosinski, Martin McDonaghough and the Daniels all on all four I thought were good conversations all four movies

I like a lot you know what two more months he stood me up he stood you up no I mean he didn't actually okay

well two months left he's got some campaigning to do and I have I have I have interacted with Steven Spielberg in the past

for stories that I've written never had him on this show okay it's just I dare to dream. You're children of divorce. That's right. We have so much to bond over.

Exactly. My mom was a kook. You know, it happens. The door is open. I would love for Steven Spielberg to be on The Big Picture. I would like that too. And I'm not above prostrating myself before thee to say so. Would I be nervous?

I would. Yeah. I would. His films mean a lot to me. Of course. Me too. What do you make of this fivesome? So Banshees, Fablemans, Everything Everywhere All at Once are our like clear front runners.

It feels like everything is solidifying a bit for me. Completely agree. I think that, as I said before, we need to respect Tar. Not only because it's like, you know, the second greatest film of the year. Really tied with Top Gun Maverick, in my opinion. I mean, that is so good. And everyone who sees it is like, holy shit, Tar, you know? I watched it again because my wife watched it for the first time over the weekend. And I started getting the tingling, like, is this actually a five-star movie feeling?

I think it is. It's pretty close. I think it really is. Did Eileen like it? She did. Yeah. She did like it quite a bit. I think she liked the first half more than the second half.

And I said I had a very similar experience the first time I watched it. Right. It's a lot to ask my wife to watch a two-hour and 45-minute movie a second time. That is true. And she stayed awake. It took two nights, but she powered through. But I was like, I think you should consider watching it again. Yeah.

So maybe I'll watch it a fourth time. I just think it's pretty close to Masterpiece. It's really good. And everyone who sees it seems to agree or is at least really excited about it.

Do you think this is the one where when it doesn't win when we're doing a rewatchable is about this Cable and Chat movie where we're like, how in the fuck did that not win? Yes, it is.

But occasionally those break through. And I like this year is so different from 2019 in like a million different ways. But there is just like a little parasite element to this. It's been going for a while. The momentum is building. Like people are seeing it. A lot of memes. People are excited.

Lots of memes. It has the cultural awareness. And everyone really is excited about it. We also, I'm not emotionally or mathematically prepared at this moment to start with the preferential ballot game theory. But it's got to be number two on like everyone's. That's what I think is in the Fableman's favor is the fact that it's not going to be really low for many people. That's true. But I think Tar is one or two for like almost everyone.

And it could be two for a lot of people. Well, that would be so interesting if it were. Well, I'm just saying. I'm noting. January 12th, my dad's birthday. everyone and it could be two for a lot of people well that would be so interesting if it well i'm just saying i'm just i'm i'm noting january 12th my dad's birthday happy birthday dad you haven't watched tar yet please watch i think he would really admire it i keep being like what are you doing anyway can i do a little emotional disclosure here yeah um before we started recording i was like thinking about the future and i was like how much longer can we do this pod? How much longer can we talk about the awards race? Are we just repeating ourselves?

Typical existential dread of a 40-year-old white man living in America. And then you just said, tar my own best picture. And I was like, I'm back! I'm back! Well, see, that's the thing. And that was a feeling I had in theaters. I was like, holy shit. I'm watching it.

I can't believe this is happening. Yes. That is its power. Yes. That's Pacino and Godfather 3. And I do think that that is percolating in the awards. It's not like a lot of bullshit always happens in awards season. Yep.

And you never know, but it's here. It's consistently on every list, whether it's Todd Field at the DGAs, it's on the PGAs. Cate Blanchett, obviously, will win the SAG Award. It's just like, keep your eye on it. Out of all of these five films that are nominated here for Best Feature Film Director, if any of them won Best Picture, I would be happy about that. I couldn't say that in the past. I know you're not a big everything ever once fan but for me like i are all these movies on my top

10 or top 15 at least like they're yeah this is all of them are like interesting and worthy in their own way okay uh here's the data point that i wanted to share so in the past 10 years the director's guild has matched best director at the the Oscars in four out of five slots exactly every single year. So there's always one that's wrong. This is the Bradley Cooper honorary. Oh, he got shut out of DGAs too, right? He was shut out of DGAs. I believe Ben Affleck for Argo won the DGA award in 2012 and was not even nominated.

Right. Now that's actually 11 years ago now. So 11 years ago, I think only two of the nominees matched, which was very unusual. But in all subsequent years, it's been four out of five or maybe three out of five in one year. But I think for the most part, it's been four out of five. Anyhow, what's been happening recently is as the Academy has shifted somewhat, we've seen, we saw in 2020 that Thomas Vinterberg was nominated for another round, even though another round was not nominated for Best Picture.

And then we saw last year that Raiska Hamaguchi was nominated for Best Director, and his film, Drive My Car, was nominated for Best Picture as well. So this year, if we believe that they'll match at four out of five, which seems plausible given that these are only American filmmakers here. Here are the candidates that I see. Okay. Baz Luhrmann. Yeah.

Australian. Mm-hmm. S.S. Rajmouli. India. I like this one. Park Chan-wook, South Korea. Ruben Ostlund, Sweden, for Triangle of Sadness. Lucas Dont Dont for Belgium

for Close or Sarah Polly who is on the outskirts and is of course a Canadian right is it also possible

that it's Ron Howard for 13 Lives you know what I mean like is there like a weird another American who could come in here at some point

who do you think it is and who do you think is getting bumped well you highlighted something because the DJs also give first time director an first-time director award. And those nominees are Alice Diep for Saint-Omer, which is Francis' submission.

Audrey Dewan for Happening. John Patton Ford for Emily the Criminal. Really just having a moment. Really? It's a cool nomination. Did not see that coming. Antoinette Almat-Kustinovich for Marina. Good film. It's on Showtime if people haven't checked that out yet. And the one you highlighted, Charlotte Wells for After Sun. And you noted here, I feel like there's an After Sun Best Picture

nomination possibility. But they've done weirder things than put someone like Charlotte Wells first time in DGAs. And she is a woman, and I think everyone is a little conscious

of how male this current lineup is. This is a very male and middle-aged group. Yeah. Barring the Daniels. So, you could even see that.

It's possible. It's possible. There's a lot of admiration for what she pulled off with a fairly small budget and a very personal story. It's a very well-directed movie. I don't know.

After Sun's kind of rattling around in my mind. Yeah. Not the film. It's awards chances, which is pathetic. But hey, that's me. Do you feel increasingly like a sociopath that you didn't respond to it?

I do. I think I shared this, but when I saw it, you know, with a friend of mine at Telluride and she just like really didn't like it and was just like loudly decrying it when the film ended. And I'm sure that influenced me somewhat. I think I was unmoored by the entire enterprise because I suspected from the first frame where the story was headed and spent the entire time thinking, is this what's really going on? And I needed to turn off my plot brain.

Right. And needed to let the feeling envelop me a little bit more than I was willing to. That sometimes happens at film festivals too. When you're on your fourth movie of the day. Sure. You know, it's a little harder to like be overtaken. So I've only seen it one time.

Maybe I'll watch it again. Maybe I will as well. All right. Well, we'll do power. Maybe I will as well. All right. Well, we'll do power rankings down the road here. We don't need to regurgitate all that over again. But this is a pretty...

This is a big week. And the reason why we're talking about this stuff so much again is because so much is going on in this space after very little. And I think it will go quiet, actually, for a few weeks here. But the PGA's are weird.

The whale? I don't know. Are you sure you didn't put that in at number 10 by accident? I'm quite certain. Did you have to submit the PGA and like vote at the same time that you posted your list? Because that was a real down to the wire situation. I had to send my PGA vote directly to Joe Biden. Okay.

And he was there with a notary and he stamped it. Does Barack Obama vote for the PGA's? I would assume directly to Joe Biden. Okay. And he was there with a notary and he stamped it. Does Barack Obama vote for the PGAs? I would assume he has a ballot. Okay. Given that Higher Ground has produced quite a few films and television shows. He's just out here seeing everything. You want to talk about that one more time? Did he see any of those movies?

So Malia works in the film industry right and so my theory is still that this is like he's he's bonding with his daughter by okay like she's passing him stuff and it's like i want you to watch this i want you to see this i want you to talk about this in the same way when he makes his music list he talks about how sasha his younger daughter is like the music curator for the family so i think i do actually think he's watching them but i think he has some help from one of his cool daughters god i hope my cool daughter puts me on the stuff that sounds awesome in 100 meters turn right actually no turn left there's some awesome new breakfast wraps at mcdonald's really yeah there's the

sausage bacon and egg a crispy seasoned chicken one. Mmm. A spicy end egg worth the detour. They sound amazing. Bet they taste amazing too. Wish I had a mouth. Take your morning into a delicious new direction with McDonald's new breakfast wraps. Add a small premium roast coffee for a dollar plus tax at participating McDonald's restaurants. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba. All right. Speaking of daughters. Yeah. What a segue.

Shall we talk about Megan? Let's do it. I can't. We waited so long. I got to say, in October when I saw the trailer for this movie, I was like, we're going to do one hell of an episode about this feature film. And Amanda's definitely going to go see it. And it's going to work out great. And it did.

It did. You saw it. In fact, you saw it before I did. I did. Couldn't keep me away. If you're not familiar with the movie, Megan and it's going to work out great. And it did. It did. You saw it. In fact, you saw it before I did. I did. Couldn't keep me away. If you're not familiar with the movie, Megan, let's just talk about the plot, the silhouette of this doll. So the story is this. After the shocking death of her parents, 10-year-old Katie is sent to live with Gemma, her mother's sister, a toy designer with a distinct lack of motherly instinct.

As Gemma works to develop a revolutionary new toy, she uses Katie and her emotional trauma to set up her new invention, which is Megan. The eponymous, artificially intelligent doll develops self-awareness and becomes hostile to anyone who comes between her and her human companion. And then, of course, this movie goes off the rails. Now, I don't think of you as a person who loves a killer doll movie. So,

before you saw it, were you like, I'm doing this because Sean's asking me to and I'm mad? No, I wasn't mad because when you saw the trailer, I believe

that you tweeted, I'm making Dobbins watch this. Did I? Yeah, you did. That's awesome. And so then I watched the trailer and I genuinely laughed out loud at the scene where Megan starts dancing

in the hallway. I thought that was incredibly funny. And so I was like, sure, I'll go see it. And then I became aware of the memes and the references. And I could also just tell that it wasn't gonna upset me.

So I was looking forward to it. I was not mad when I went. It is kind of a horror movie, but not really. And that's where I want to have a lot of our discussion. I'm not sure if this is a film that can be spoiled per se. It's pretty well understood now that Megan, this robot doll, kills people in an effort to protect what she perceives as her family. The first thing I thought of when I saw the trailer, and then even more so after I saw

the film, was this is not necessarily like a series of like child's play, necessarily. It reminded me a lot of The Good Son. Yeah. Which is a 1993 movie. Iconic. For, you know, kids of our generation is a huge deal. And I feel like it's a little lost to time. And it just so happens that this film

is celebrating its 30th anniversary. It's beautiful. And I'm just going to give you some data points on the film The Good Son, which were frankly news to me. Sure. So, as I said, this movie came out in 1993. It was written by Ian McEwan. Yeah, loves an evil child. Or a child with questionable morals. That's a good point.

Of course. But never like this. I mean, he doesn't do genre fare in this fashion. This is the author of Atonement. Right. Well, speaking of evil children. Not evil. Well, I... Questionable morals. That's why it's one of the great novels. That's right. Directed by Joseph Rubin,

who is a thriller filmmaker who had made The Stepfather and was coming off of the mega success of Sleeping with the Enemy. This is the first film he made after Sleeping with the Enemy, which made like $200 million with the rising Julia Roberts. The 90s were so awesome. It was a lot of fun. Because-

We were very lucky. Sleeping with the Enemy and The Good Son just burned in my brain. Just picture me rocking the fuck out to Nirvana's Nevermind after watching The Good Son in theaters. And this movie starred Macaulay Culkin. This is the first movie he made after the trilogy of Home Alone, My Girl, and Home Alone 2.

He was frankly the biggest movie star in America. And Elijah Wood. Incredible. And it was a very similar plot. After the death of his mother, a young boy named Mark is sent to stay with his aunt and uncle. While there, he meets his cousin Henry, who shows signs of violent and evil behavior.

And then bad stuff starts happening. I seem to recall a very vivid moment where someone is hanging from a tree. Yeah. You remember that sequence? I haven't seen this movie in quite some time. Yes, of course, right. It's Elijah Wood. And they were like playing,

and then Macaulay Culkin like sees an opportunity. Yes. Yeah. That movie, while it was played quite seriously quite, quite seriously, also had an element of camp, an element of absurdity and ridiculousness. And the casting of Macaulay Culkin was a massive wink of the eye. This movie felt very similar to me. Now, obviously there's a modern context.

It's produced by Blumhouse, which, you know, is well known for its horror productions. But even when I was 11, I was like, the good son is like kind of a funny bit. Yeah. And Megan was like, it was a meme before there were memes it was yeah and I see this movie in league right because even Macaulay Culkin is like sometimes almost looking towards the camera the way he did in Home Alone right before he like dropped like paint cans on Joe Pesci you know but instead he's just like I'm a a psycho. Cut to camera, you know? I agree with you. There's one other Home Alone connection in my mind for this movie, Megan, which is that whenever I see the title Megan, here's what I hear in my mind's eye.

Catherine O'Hara saying, Kevin! But Megan. Megan! I do that. Do you do that a lot in your head? Every time I'm driving. Catherine O'Hara's voice. No, do Kevin. Yeah, yeah, sure. Every day. I wake up every morning. No, but I actually do because when I'm driving in my car and the car,

which is by myself and the car seat's empty, like I will look in the mirror to check on Knox and then there's nothing in there. And then I'm like, Kevin! And then I'm like, no, he's okay. But I swear to God, once a day and that's always the reference. That's Catherine O'Hara's power is that she, for generations to come, communicated

bad parenting. Did you like Megan? Of course! I had a fun time. I'm seriously reconsidering the role of AI in my parenting. How were you using it previously? I was just kidding. Okay.

And it is really funny that for 20 minutes, this is a movie about like parenting ethics. And I was like, wow, you're really finding me at my point. I also shared the theater. I went at 2 p.m. on a Friday. Yep, normal. And well, you know, you got to make it work, you know? Can I have it all? I can.

When it comes to seeing Megan with a bunch of 12-year-olds who are still on Christmas vacation, which was the demo. It was me and a bunch of, and I know they were 12 because they were there with their parents. Okay. So the TikTok stuff, which was a huge part of this marketing campaign, we can talk more about that, clearly worked. Because I got there early, had my peed on M&Ms,

was having a grand old time. And then, like, a bunch of small children start walking in. And I was like, are you in the right theater? And then... PG-13, this movie.

PG-13, no, I know. But they did all come, they had to come with their parents. And they were not at all scared of Megan. Okay. And the biggest reaction was when a character named brandon which i'd like to come back to i don't think that was by accident okay um told like an adult to fuck off and all the kids were like

but that was the biggest scare moment in the whole theater more so than spoiler alert brandon being thrown in front of a truck. Yes. Yeah, that was funny. Notable. That's a great viewing experience. It was awesome. Mine was very different.

I saw the film in an Alamo draft house on a Saturday night. Yeah. And I'd meant to join you, and then I couldn't join you for various reasons. I would have liked to have seen this movie with you, alas. All adults. Okay. Having the time of their lives. Yeah, of course. Drunk off their asses. And I actually, here's what happened. Service was down in the Alamo Drafthouse. So when I walked in,

they were like, unfortunately, we do not have any food and beverage service whatsoever. So we assume you want your refund. And I was like, I don't want to, I want to see the movie. And they were like, well, the movie is still playing. I was like, oh,'t want to. I want to see the movie. And they were like, well, the movie is still playing. So great. OK, I'll go. And I assumed I would be in what I knew was a sold out screening, but would be empty because people didn't. Right.

Weren't going to be able to get their food. In fact, the theater was full. Great. So what does that tell me? Two things. One, you know, the business proposition of Alamo Drafthouse getting food and drink, maybe a little overstated. Two, people were like, I'm seeing Megan tonight.

Yeah. Come hell or high water. or high water you can't turn me away from Megan all the way downtown and parked in that fucking parking lot with like the 14 I'll do like a parking lot ranking of LA movie theaters

on our Patreon it seems like a really good pod definitely one of our better pods of 2029 you wanted to keep things new and interesting that's grim as hell nevertheless everybody showed up for that screening Definitely one of our better pods of 2029. You wanted to keep things new and interesting. That's grim as hell.

Nevertheless, everybody showed up for that screening. They all sat there. It was a bunch of 40-year-old men and women. And we were just rolling in the aisles, just having a nice time. Let me just say, Megan, I would not say is a good movie. I would say it is the definition of like a two and a half star movie. It does what it sets out to do. It's made well enough to get me over the finish line.

The jokes feel somewhat added in post, somewhat sort of like, I could feel the tone shifting a little bit throughout the film where when they realized I had a viral phenomenon, there was some kind of reconstitution

of what the tone of the movie was meant to be. Or at least just like a sharpening. It felt more like a studio comedy where they did some testing and then all of a sudden the movie comes along and they're like,

oh, we added six jokes because we needed to. We had an open spot here. That's not a bad thing. I've enjoyed plenty of studio comedies like that in the past. I have a real pure sense of horror. So as a horror fan, I was like, this is not really even a horror movie.

Like, it's never scary ever. No. But it was effectively entertaining. And that's ultimately what people were looking for with something like this anyway. It's a January movie. They want to have a nice time out. They want to be able to understand the memes, right? That's a whole other aspect of moviegoing in 2023.

So in that respect, I thought it was a success. I think Megan, the creation is really powerful. And I would like to talk more about the 10-year-old who plays Megan, the person. Fire away. Okay. Amy Donald is her name. What? You're so excited. I'm dead serious. There's a 10-year-old girl who can crawl sideways at speed. Okay? Let's celebrate that. And I do think, I i mean the concept of what just you're very excited i don't know let's respect the craft let's respect the practical effects let's respect the performance you're right the 10 year old who has a brown belt in karate and is a dance champion

in new zealand and literally plays megan and it just like, is Megan nearly as funny if it is, like, an actual robot or, like, a fake puppet doll? Or does it, like, there is something about the way that Megan moves and is, like, inhuman but also very human and very, and, like, a human pretending to be a robot that is hilarious and really funny. And shout out the 10-year-old Amy Donald. I thought her performance was very strong. Yeah. She doesn't do the voice. She doesn't do the voice. The voice is also good,

but the physicality of how they did it, I thought was very clever. At the risk of going too far identifying the body actress of Megan, but not the people who made the movie, I should say Gerard Johnstone directed the movie. He made a really good movie in 2014. I think he's a New Zealand filmmaker.

This film was made in New Zealand in 2014 called Housebound. The movie was written by Akilah Cooper, who is this kind of rising figure in the world of horror. She wrote 2021's Malignant, which is one of the more bonkers horror movies of recent times. This movie isn't just made by Blumhouse. It's one of the big collaborations between Atomic Monster and Blumhouse, James Wan's production company, which is now uniting to make this kind of mega powerhouse production team. And this is a pretty good start for them in their new venture.

And Akilah Cooper is kind of like a part of that story because she wrote Malignant, she wrote this movie, and she wrote the forthcoming The Nun too. Gotta say, after seeing The Nun, I didn't wrote The Forthcoming, The Nun, too. Gotta say, after seeing The Nun, I didn't feel like I needed more of The Nun. Okay. I like the broader universe

of The Conjuring, but one Nun movie was good by me. But if Keely Cooper's writing it, I'm at least paying attention. To me, the secret sauce of this movie is that Alison Williams

was like, I'm in. Like, I'm so in, you can't even believe how ready to work I am for megan all right so number one allison williams with her perfect blowout yeah is playing the world's greatest uh like ai toy developer it's not just that she's like a toy developer who keeps

collectibles on a shelf that katie her niece is not not allowed to play with. She's like the Steve Jobs of toy developers, and they got to keep her mind on lock, you know? Which is, with all respect to Alison Williams, who seems like a very intelligent woman, like the least believable thing that I've ever seen. With her just being like, yeah, I built this robot named Bruce in college. Like, here's how, like, physics works. Respectfully, that is not what Alison Williams was doing in college. And the great thing about it is that, you know, that's the character's biography, which makes no sense. But the character otherwise is written with a lot of awareness of Marnie,

who is the character that Alison Williams played on Girls. Like, kind of uptight, lives in, like, a Williams played on Girls, like kind of uptight, lives in like a picture perfect, like mid-century modern, you know, Pacific Northwest home. Like everything is like just so, and she's very much like, this is my time and I need to do this, which like Alison Williams does beautifully. And as you said, buys in. And then she's just like, yeah, here's all this plastic toy from the 60s works. You're like, no, ma'am. No.

But thank you, but no. I just have to get some things off my chest. One, Alison Williams is and has been my dream girl for the longest time. Marnie, followed by Jordan Peele, the absolute stroke of genius of casting her in Get Out. It's so good. And she commits. The fact that she is, she gets it.

She gets the joke. She gets the joke about her character. She does the simultaneous actor thing where she's like, I really need to tap into their chi, but also knows that there's something really funny about how she's being cast and stuff. I've always appreciated.

She's also just like, she's like if Anne Hathaway got hit by lightning, you know? She's like, like just these like really nervy string bean brunettes who were like, have a certain kind of energy. And so putting her in the role that you're describing of like a neurotic

scientist. I mean, that's really the part, which is an archetype, you know, going back hundreds of years. This is Dr. Frankenstein.

That's who she is. It's a genius stroke. It's just such a smart idea. So fun. I think she's so funny on screen that it made the movie's tone work. Yeah. Because if you don't have

an anchor real person to follow, even though the movie is kind of a 90-minute joke, it's not going to play. Like there are a lot of 90-minute like joke horror movies like this that are awful. I feel like they take six hours to complete.

I was never bored. I was never checked out. I was never, like, I didn't go to the bathroom. I was like, this is fun. I'm having a nice time. And also, Alison Williams, like, against Megan, who is styled, like, somewhat as a, like, joke on Alisoniams or at least the character you know like and and she's wearing a hilarious p-code and a scarf i'm sure there's like some tiktok trends element that i'm not aware of but it was a great look but the two of them facing off against each other and the way that they have megan speak which is like built into the plot of the movie

that she's mirroring what she's learning from both Katie and Allison Williams. But so she just becomes like evil Allison. It's really, it's very clever. I thought it was funny. I enjoyed it. You alluded to the TikTok campaign. The two trailers for this movie

were very powerful in our modern movie economy. The first one featured a Taylor Swift song. The second one featured a song by Bella Porch, which was a huge TikTok sensation. So there was a lot of consciousness about the way this movie is being marketed. There's a great episode of The Town with Matt Bellany having a conversation with Michael Moses about how they marketed this movie that is frankly very insightful

and a little bit as Matt indicated depressing when you think about the way that these companies feel that they have to work to get people to pay attention to movies

but Universal to its credit is very good at this. Right. They've done this many times. They just did it with Minions over last summer. They're very gifted

at the sort of digital economy of movie attention. And in this case, it worked. The movie made $30 million over the weekend, which is frankly extraordinary for a movie like this, which costs very little. I think it was a $12 million budget. And Blumhouse just continues to do it over and over again. It's kind of amazing how they've been able to do it. Now, there's two aspects to this.

There's one that's sort of like, what does this mean for the future of horror and the Blumhouse atomic monster thing? I'm not as interested in that as I am the tone of this movie and what it says about where horror is and what audiences want from horror because it's consistent with a bunch of movies that I frankly you would feel comfortable watching yeah um and I think that that's very purposeful

and there's like a whole stretch now I think the happy death day franchise is a part of this I think even in some respects malignant is a part of this he's sort of like uber tongue-in-cheek quasi camp somewhat horror comedy movies where they're like, you've seen all the horror movies and you like to be scared, but is it even better to have a cool concept with good jokes? And they're not actually trying to be comedies,

but they want you laughing, which is, of course, something that I've said to you before. It's something that appeals to me about horror in general. When it's most scary is when I find it most funny. I don't know how long this can continue,

but in the same way that we identified like found footage as an era in horror or torture porn as an era of horror. So cool. I mean, that's sick that that happened, but like home invasion or there's something wrong with the house or, you know, there's like a series of trends that come along.

This Blumhouse atomic monster trend of what a joke this is, and it's basically a meme, but also there are deaths, is an interesting turn of events, I would say. Like, will you go along on this journey? I mean, it all depends on, like, the execution, right? Which is true of any of those, you know, micro genres. But if it's a joke that works and it's funny, or like Megan the doll, which I find hilarious and I'm really open for Meg 4 Ann or whatever. How would we spell it? I don't know,

but they definitely set that up with the, what do they call the Siri or the Alexa in the movie? Her name's like Leah or something. Yeah, yeah i don't know but that was a great the closing shot is yeah yeah yeah yeah um but if it's i don't know like a talking you know video game controller or something who hell 9000 right yeah like probably not for me okay so as you said like sometimes there are movies like this that are a 90-minute joke that work, and sometimes there are movies that suck. So I'll go along with it. It also feels very internet-inflected, right? It's like the meme into a movie, but then the movie...

If the meme works as a movie, great. And if not, I won't see it. Yeah, if it's just a meme, it's not effective. And that's what's different about this in some respects is that it feels a little bit different I mean there's a whole this isn't a new thing like there's a whole lineage of this I alluded to Child's Play earlier yeah Child's Play is very similar there's something very tongue-in-cheek about Child's Play even though it can be quite scary at times but like you know the good son is obviously an

offshoot of the bad seed and village of the damned and kill be killed chucky child's place yeah you just said it's that chucky yeah i'm sorry chucky well the film is called child's right yeah but like i know who chucky is okay but you haven't seen any of those films i don't know if i've seen the films but i've seen lots of clips like you know i have an awareness of like who chucky is what he's up to how he moves okay you know coming later this week the child's play rewatchables me and Amanda on Patreon um when I saw the film at Alamo Drafthouse the pre-roll was a series of like the history of killer doll movies okay and so we saw like magic the Richard Attenborough movie starring Anthony Hopkins in which he plays a ventriloquist whose dummy is a murderer.

Interesting movie if you haven't seen it. Written by William Goldman. Okay. Based on a book that he wrote. We saw Wes Craven's Deadly Friend in which Christy Swanson dies in a car accident and is revived as like a murderous robot. Okay. Stuart Gordon's Dolls, which I would highly encourage you to watch because it's about dolls that kill,

like little childlike dolls. And that leads to my next question for you, which is what's your relationship to dolls? Now or in the past? Not now. That would be weird. Okay. If you were like, oh, I love them

and I pet them every day, I'd be like, you're a serial killer. What if? Like as a young girl growing up. So I had a couple American Girl dolls. Are you aware of this? Do you know about this phenomenon? No, that sounds very ethnocentric.

It was actually. No, it was crazy. So they started with three white dolls. And there was like a historical element. So there was one from plantation owner so i think there were no there actually like was a plantation owners well i don't know whether felicity was a plantation owner i can't remember she was plantation there's no way well she was the american revolution one because they were all tied to historical elements i like i'm saying no

that's like a betsy raw situation right or like i think i don't remember i remember she had a horse but and she but she lived in williamsburg but they glossed over a lot of the stuff i know that's what i'm saying it's not good and anyway the original three was molly who was like a world war ii doll somehow samantha who was like i don't even i don't it was like the 1900s i don't really know what was up with samantha even though i like had her because her hair was the same as mine and then there was kirsten who was like a swedish immigrant it's very strange but then at some point it was made aware to the American Girl Doll Corporation of like how limited and blinkered this range of dolls were. So they broadened their horizons. I think it probably took them a while to get to any place of historical sensitivity but now it's like a franchise and and you can not only buy like one

of the historical dolls but you can make your own doll that looks like you and then there's like an american girl doll um so creepy store i think they're everywhere and you can go like to have tea at the american girl doll store like julia ro Julia Roberts has produced and possibly starred in movies around like as a part of the American Girl doll franchise. Like I'm not making. Is that what Mona Lisa Smile is about? No, that was before.

You cut me off on that podcast before I could talk about. Mona Lisa Smile was about Jackson Pollock. You don't have to like it, but you have to consider it. And it was also about birth control. Sure. So, will you let Alice have an American Girl doll?

Well, I'm more like, can we get her a Megan? Yeah. That's what I want to know. You would at the end of this. I would not get a Megan. I've got some people I would like to bump off. Okay. So, I mean, you know.

Sure. Pesky neighbors. Sure. You know, that's something I've been thinking about. Anyway, I wasn't super into dolls. Like, I was not a Barbie person. Save it for the Barbie pod. No, I know, but that'll be interesting.

So, I won't be coming to it from like that sort of, I had these Barbies and played with them and they were important to me. But Barbie kind of looms larger just as sort of like a cultural understanding as a woman. So, yeah. Are you aware of the doll at the play space that both our children love very much? Not at all. Okay, so our children sometimes go to a play space when it's raining, as it has been in California. Thoughts and prayers with Kevin Costner.

Sheltering in place. He's okay. He posted on Instagram. Oh, good. So I think he posted on instagram before and it was it was less it was more like the roads were closed so he couldn't like ford the river to get to the golden globes you think he was watching the golden globes i do not get the sense that if he was that he would have a great sense of humor about what happened anyway i don't want

to cast aspersions he also has an enormous sum of money sure so he probably i think that i read that his ranch was like 20 million dollars more than i estimated it was on the podcast so i don't know it seems nice in santa barbara i'm a huge fan of kevin costner i'm just gonna put that on the airwaves so am i okay um but that's still one of the funniest things anyway it's been raining a lot here in los angeles and uh surrounding areas and so our children sometimes go to this indoor play space and there's like this doll that lives at the play space that that my son at least is apparently very taken with but he can never like have the doll because older children always you know get there first and have the doll or have the doll in the stroller hot about this doll i't know, but we were sent some photographs

of our children playing very sweetly in the play space and Alice had the doll. And Alice was clinging the doll. Older children. I know. And I was like, oh my God, that's Knox's doll. That's Knox's doll. So they both love it, apparently.

Yeah. So dolls are powerful. I'm bracing myself for a life full of dolls. Dolls are already meaningful to my daughter's life. And if she wanted a Megan, I would get her one. Okay. Do I have $10,000 for Megan? I do not. But maybe if they lower that MSRP somewhat. If Alison Williams could just make that project deadline, you know, for the lower price Furby, okay? You can't be doing side projects. That seemed odd to like a stray shot 25 years late at the

furby yeah i don't know in the film if anybody is listening to this and hasn't seen the film god bless you for sticking with us this long uh there is the film kind of opens on a furby-esque toy for kids that like talks and shits and responds to prompts. Right. It was like a three minute infomercial is how the. I thought that was clever. I did too. I think that this is a very well done version of what it

is. So like two and a half. More than two and a half stars? Well. Six stars? Again this is this goes back to how we rate things.

I think like in the grand scale of human cinema you know it's probably. The grand scale of humans. Is that in the total cinema baby universe okay yeah great i think two and a half or maybe even two stars is this total cinema baby i i well maybe because this is the thing in this scale of movies that i've gotten to see at the movie theaters or in the scale of this being what it is, I would at least give it three and a half.

Three and a half out of four? Oh, I thought we were doing five. Out of five. Okay, yeah. No, I believe in five. I'm pro-five. Isn't five what you and your Letterboxd friends do? Don't.

First of all, did you see Ciara's back on Letterboxd? Yes, I did. He hath returned. Okay. You know why? Why? He wants what I have. What is it that you have? Pride. Okay.

Congratulations. Emotional clarity. Strength of self. This is not what I'm going to be doing in 2023. What do you mean? Letterboxd. But you'll be talking about it on a podcast even worse. Yeah. Even more pathetic. That is true. Anyway, I was trying to speak in your language. I was trying to meet you where you are. Thank you. Out of five stars. You came in with a great energy today. Did I maintain it or do you think? You did.

Okay. Yes. Anxious but daffy, which is really all we need on this show. And intelligent and wise. I wish I had done more historical research on American Girl dolls. Now that I'm, that was all just like from the top of my head, but I'm sure there's a lot of context about how they handled just the cultural and racial implications that I was not able to add. Someone should write a book on it. I'm sure someone has.

Anyway, maybe you'll learn all about that when Alice asks for the full set of American Girl dolls. I find it hard to believe that's going to be happening because I will be actually just showing her movies like Megan. I won't give her any dolls. I'll be like, this is what dolls do. This is why we don't have any dolls. Is there anything else we need to say about Megan? I mean, like, are you excited for 2025 when Megan 2 comes along? Sure. But I'll be sad because they probably won't have Amy Donald back, right? They wouldn't, would they do it again where it's just like Terminator 2, so like we improved Megan, but it still looks

sort of the same, but sort of different? I'm glad you brought that up because the Terminator and Terminator 2 are a good comp for this movie in many ways, in part because in the Terminator,

Arnold Schwarzenegger was the big bad. Yeah. He was the, you know, sent from the future, the force meant to kill Sarah Connor so that John Connor could not be born. In Terminator 2, the T-800 comes to protect John Connor. Okay.

And he becomes his friend. So would a good Megan sequel be there to protect Gemma? Or something like that. I mean, maybe Katie, but she was already protecting Katie. So Gemma is Alice in Lanes' character. Remember when I said she was Anne Hathaway struck by lightning? That was good. That's a good comparison.

Maybe she protects Katie and Gemma from the rise of the Siri, the Alexa. Yes. Much in the same way that, spoiler alert bruce plays an important role he does okay that's great i'm i'll watch that it'll be really fun i need to get cracking on the script alert the blacklist someone tell franklin leonard that we've got a hot one coming right yeah and we'll have two more years of parental experience to infuse the the script with our thoughts on um robotics and um attachment parenting will will Will Megan compete for the 2024 Best Picture? No, she won't.

But that's okay. Maybe, you know what would be good at the fucking Oscars? What? Is if Megan showed up on stage. Start working on Amy Donald's visa now, okay? You've done great work today. Thank you. I'm so proud to work with you i'm very proud to work with our producer bobby wagner on this show as well thanks to bobby for all of his work

next week we're going to be talking about well we've got a double dose of chris ryan actually oh yeah i saw that on the spreadsheet chris is going to join us for two episodes the first will be about the netflix film all quiet on the western, which we did not talk about today, but that's because all of these awards were American awards. And there is an expectation that maybe some of this uncertainty in the Best Picture race will lead to a possible opening

for All Quiet on the Western Front, which is available on Netflix for you to watch right now. So I would encourage people to watch it. It's an interesting movie at worst. And we'll talk about it. And we'll talk about war movies and war movies in general

and kind of like the history of war movies. That should be a fun conversation. And then at the end of next week, movie, movie auction is back. 2023 movie. Our first in-person movie auction. Is that true?

Yeah. It's going to be absolutely deranged. Get excited. See you then. Thank you.