The Big Picture - ‘Magic Mike’s Last Dance’ and the Top Five Dance Movies

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

With this latest installment, Steven Soderbergh concludes his ‘Magic Mike’ trilogy. So, Sean and Amanda are celebrating by breaking down the new film (5:00), taking a long look at the filmmaker’s annual media diary, and sharing their five favorite dance movies (56:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's not quite the DeLorean, but we're going back in time with a new podcast feed full of all my favorite interviews in the history of the Bill Simmons podcast. We're coming up on seven years now. I've had an unbelievable collection of athletes, celebrities, showrunners, directors, Matt Damon, Denzel Washington, Adam Sandler, Kevin Garnett, Charlize Theron, Tom Hanks, Bill Burr, Kevin Durant, Peyton Manning, The Undertaker, Eddie Vedder, Kyrie Irving. Yeah, he actually came on. Dave Grohl, Quavo, Barack Obama. I mean, what else can I tell you? I've had Al Pacino with Barry Levinson. I've had people like Steph Curry,

Jason Bateman, John C. Reilly, Jonah Hillal. I could just, I could keep going and going. But wait, there's more. Whether it's your first time or you're planning on revisiting some of your favorites, make sure you head to billsimmonsinterviews.theringer.com for the entire archive. You can sort by genre, year, and more to easily navigate all your favorite people. Follow the Bill Simmons podcast,

The Interviews, on Spotify now. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Fennessy. I'm Amanda Davins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Mike's magic.

Amanda, what's up? Hi, Sean. How are you? I'm well. It's so nice to see you. It's great to see you. We're talking today about Magic Mike's Last Dance. This is the final film in the trilogy from Steven Soderbergh about male strippers. Are you excited to talk about this

today? Absolutely. I'm excited too. Before we get into that though, there was a debut of a new movie trailer. Sure was. This is a film that I acquired at our most recent movie auction. This film was called Air. It's directed by Ben Affleck. Sure is. It kind of looks like a fake movie from Tropic Thunder. That being said, I'm all in. I'm so ready to watch air. What'd you think of the trailer? So this is Emily in Paris for boys. And then, and then people who are interested in Emily in Paris for boys, which is me,

Amanda Davids, sign me the fuck up. What is Ben Affleck wearing in, but I also like the windbreaker. Why does he keep casting himself as like this sidekick who steals the movie and all of it just be in the center of a movie my guy you can do it but also i'm kind of glad he's not the center of a movie that is about uh signing an endorsement deal which is literally what this is about yeah i i i thought of the tender bar while watching this as well both films come from

amazon prime of course. Our producer Bobby Wagner dubbed this movie We Bought a Shoe, which I thought was really funny. Matt Damon plays Sonny Vaccaro, the aging, balding Italian-American man who signed Michael Jordan to his famed Nike contract, which is not what Matt Damon is. Matt Damon does not look like a Sonny Vaccaro, but I look forward to his performance. This is a stacked movie, you know? Marlon Wayans, Chris Tucker, Viola Davis is starring in this film as Michael Jordan's mother.

It's seemingly a very big ticket project, and for some reason, it's coming out in two months. And I can't wait. I'm just absolutely delighted. I cannot wait. I love Michael Jordan. In my eyes, despite the fact that LeBron James broke the all-time scoring record in the NBA,

MJ will always be the GOAT. Do you have an opinion about who is the greatest NBA player of all time? I just really do not. I just can't even begin to care, honestly. But I like both of those people. I like LeBron's performance in Trainwreck. And I enjoyed the last dance. Yep.

Both the content and the memes. And my son recently received his first pair of Nikes, though they were not Air Jordans, but they're very cute. So I support everyone involved with this film. Do you know what kind of Nikes? Yeah, Air Force Ones. Oh, great.

Katie got him a pair of Air Force Ones. It's very cute. My daughter, Alice, wears 270s Air Force Ones. Oh, great. Katie got him a pair of Air Force Ones. It's very cute. My daughter Alice wears 270s. Pink 270s. That's nice. Actually purchased for her by Mallory Rubin. They're fantastic. That's very sweet.

Have you seen the film Space Jam A New Legacy? No, but I read a lot of plot summary of it. Interesting. Why would you do that? Over the summer. Because this was in my taking care of a baby that can't move. So I'm very online to try to stay tethered to the real world phase.

So you were like, let's check out the Space Jam 2 wiki? You know, at some point, no, people were tweeting about it. Oh, I see. People were tweeting plot summaries of this film? At some point, I checked out some reviews. Okay. You know? I think when Knox is old enough,

I'd like him to join me for a Clockwork Orange and then Space Jam A New Legacy double feature because, you know, the Droogs feature prominently in Space Jam A New Legacy. Do they really? Yes, because the entire world of Warner Brothers is featured in that film. I did know that, but like, I don't know whether you're like punking me right now. I am legitimately not. And the all time like DMT drop into my mind was watching Space Jam A New Legacy and seeing characters from A Clockwork Orange appear in the film. It's honestly worth checking out, even though I thought the film was absolutely abominable.

Sure. Shall we pivot straight to Magic Mike's Last Dance? Yes. So, as we said, this is the new film from Steven Soderbergh, who is just frankly one of our heroes. He is one of our favorite people, one of our favorite filmmakers. The film was written by Reed Carroll, who was Channing Tatum's close friend and producing partner for many years. And Channing Tatum is back as Mike Lane in this movie. Soderbergh says he was inspired to make the film

after seeing the live London stage show of Magic Mike that Tatum and Carolyn had been working on. So in the movie, Mike Lane, who at the beginning of all of these movies is in kind of like a flamed out nothingness state. He's working as a bartender. He's working at a fundraiser. He's working at the lavish home of a woman named

Maxandra Mendoza, who is played by Salma Hayek. It becomes clear through a friend of a friend that Mike Lane is not just some bartender at a fundraiser, but he is Magic Mike. He is a male stripper who provides extraordinary pleasure to women. Yeah, let me just say, you friend of a friended there. Not just any friend of a friend, but the woman and the same actress who receives the lap dance at the ill-fated sorority party in Magic Mike. Beautiful. It's very smart to keep the thread going, I'll say. That leads to this encounter between Lane and Salma Hayek's character. And then all of a sudden, Mike Lane is whisked

away to London and the plot of the movie begins. Well, you yada yada'd another. Well, I want to save that. I want to save our discussion about the idea of set pieces in this movie. The actual yada yada of all yada yadas. I'm doing some plot summary. The tricky thing about a Magic Mike movie, and this was very true of Magic Mike XXL, and it's somewhat true of this film, is that plot is not really what's most important. There are structures of the plot of this movie that I think are really meaningful to kind of inform the themes. That's true of all three of the movies. Each movie is about a different kind of thing, and they use these very loose plot structures to let Soderbergh kind of cook on the things that he's most interested in in

this world. And this one in particular, and this seems like kind of a dumb thing to say, but it does seem like he's most interested in two things. One, dance, obviously. It's a Magic Mike movie, and the kind of how one dances and how one seduces with dance. And then secondarily, putting on a show.

Because when Mike Lane goes to London and he goes with this billionaire woman, Maxandra, she owns a theater and she may or may not be going through a divorce. And one of the things she wants to do to kind of get the attention of her ex or to sort of neg him is to strip down this very fussy British production

that has been playing at this old British theater for many years and recontextualize it in a modern, sexy way. And she's going to have Mike Lane, who is a stripper from Tampa, conceive and direct this new show. Now, when I explain the movie like this, it sounds very dumb. And when I was watching it, I was thinking, this plot is very dumb. Yes. But it's kind of a portal. It's an entryway to certainly a home in London that I think you'll have a lot to say about. A kind of lavish lifestyle overseas is one of your favorite things in a movie.

And all these dance sequences and this assemblage of new dancers in this kind of new era. And ultimately, a big romance. That's kind of what is living at the heart of the movie so and and also salma hayek pina which is how she is credited yes in this movie which is just remarkable so her husband i haven't researched this though i suspect you have all the information he is actually a billionaire oh like many times over multiple times over and she's been on the press tour talking about how she had to be, like, dragged to the aisle to marry him. That she was, like, very reluctant. And I'm just like, this is incredible that Salma Hayek is so powerful.

That she's like, they had... My family basically had to force me to legally lock things down with this billionaire. Anyway, yes, he's, like, a huge, huge like French fashion and other like mega mogul okay so this is sort of a life imitating art

or imitating life portrayal by Salma Hayek which is interesting in fact because she was not the original woman cast as Max the original woman

cast as Max was Tendiwe Newton who had to step aside from the film sort of last minute and Salma Hayek replaced her and let me tell you

one Salma Hayek I think we both agree is just phenomenally charming in this movie, just having the time of her life. And two, this would be a very different movie with Tandy White-Newton, who is an actor I've always really liked, but it presents a slightly more stiff and demure kind of portrayal, and is British also, and of course, the Max character is Mexican.

She's Salma Hayek. So it just feels like it really radically changed the movie we were going to see. Yes. And for my two cents, far for the better because Salma Hayek is like, to me, the best part of this movie and brings the whole thing alive. I don't want to speak ill of other actresses who have been featured in Magic Mike films before, but it's a different presence, Salma Hayek,

as opposed to the sort of slack-jawed OMG reactions. Are you talking about Cody Horn? Well, and also Amber Heard, who replaces her in XXL. I didn't love Amber Heard in XXL, but I want to say, Cody Horn,

Olivia Munn, Annie McDowell, Jada Pinkett Smith, Elizabeth Banks, they did stellar work, I thought, in the first two Magic Mike films.

I appreciated all of their performances. Jada Pinkett Smith. Not a big Amber Heard person, personally. I is giving the performance of a lifetime in XXL. I rewatched it yesterday

and was just like, wow, this is really special. Olivia Munn is also great and sort of quietly devastating because she plays the person who kind of rips Mike's

sort of heart out. Yeah. And they use it really well. So I will say that the cuts to Cody Horn during Pony are some of the most iconic close-ups

that I've ever seen on film. Are they the best? I don't know. Are they giving... I can't believe they haven't been memed. I guess it was just like slightly too early in the internet. It's very important that you be nice to Cody Horn. I just want to put that out there.

I think that they are incredibly memorable. And it's wonderful filmmaking. But I will say that it is a different energy that Salma Hayek as, like, the love interest for Mike and the center, she's kind of

marrying all of the past female characters, both, like, the Cody Horns and Amber Heards and the Jada Pinkett Smiths into one, like, dominant female force.

And that is very exciting. And the movie's, like, clearly trying to do that because another thing that this film is like really um very literally in a in a spoken way trying to do is put like the female desire i guess and perspective front and center and to the extent that salma hayek is doing that it's awesome to the extent that Salma Hayek is doing that, it's awesome. To the extent that they have to rewrite a costume drama, it works a little less well for me. But she is amazing. Yeah. So the first movie, which of course was a big success and kind of a cultural object of

fascination and hit kind of right at the heart of the McConaissance and at this perfect moment for Channing Tatum's career. And it's based on his life story, of course, when he was a male dancer. And it also is this kind of very cleverly constructed post-08 economic crash story about service workers and, you know, how people are paid and the transactional nature of our world. XXL, which came out a few years later, is, like a hangout movie and more of like a purely pleasurable kind of experience. Don't do it. Don't do it. I prefer one to two, but I realize.

Of course. Of course. But many people. So two is this has become hugely celebrated. Yeah. And I think that looms a little bit over Magic Mike's Last Dance and the reception of Magic Mike's Last Dance as well. Because XXL, of course, has these very memorable set pieces. Joe Manganiello, especially in the convenience store,

just one of the great set pieces of this series, of Soderbergh's career. And the cuts to the rest of the guys just cheering through the window while rolling off their minds. I don't dislike XXL at all. I like it a lot. But the first one to me,

even though it has Alex Pettifer and Cody Horn's complicated performance style. There's things in that that I think are incredible. In fact, I would say it's uncomplicated. I would say it's to its essence anyway. Magic Mike, the first film, I believe was number four on our Soderbergh rankings when we did that out for three or four years ago. And I don't recall where XXL was. It was probably in the teens.

Yeah. And. I think that's right Magic Mike itself I think was one of my top 10 movies of the decade I like I love Magic Mike which this is not the last time we'll talk about it on this podcast and it's like it's like basically Soderbergh singing in the rain and it's like very conscious of singing in the rain even how it's paced the the sequences, but also his commentary on making it in an industry and making it as a worker. And it is a lot more cynical and bitter, basically. It's amazing. XXL is a classic Soderbergh sequel, which means that I absolutely

love it because I'm also out here writing for Ocean's Twelve harder than anyone in the world. But it's the same thing, which is just, wouldn't it be fun if we did this again? Like, let's go hang out with our buddies and do it again, slightly less fraught. Looser, more self-referential exactly slightly more um involved but wise and just well funded and having a good time and that's what it is it's about doing cool shit with your buds because you want to yes so the third film you know oceans 13 i think has a complicated reputation we're also big fans of that movie i think this movie will will settle quietly as the third love least liked of the Magic Mike movies.

I think you and I had a really fun time with it, even though it has, I just think, some kind of inherent flaws because the story itself, I'll put it this way, the set pieces, I feel like, are not strong enough to support the lack of story. Some of the set pieces are very good, but it does not have those kind of powerhouse moments like the Lawbreakers moment with McConaughey in the first film or the Manganiello sequence that I'm talking about or the kind of big finale at the end of XXL, which is just like amazing. I mean, it is like the mini Broadway show. And I think I never I never got to see the Magic Mike live show. I think I would like to go. I would be mortified.

But who would you like to go with? I'm not you. I think our friend Phoebe would be, I don't know, would your wife want to go? I don't even know if she's seen Magic Mike. I really don't like, she hasn't seen original Magic Mike? Probably has, but she's not like, can we put on Magic Mike? Like that's not a thing for her. I have a great fear of audience participation in general.

Interesting. I loathe it. I have since I was a small child. I would like. Would you raise your hand in class to answer questions? Yeah, but that's different because that's showing off and knowing the answer. But like when someone comes. Yeah, of course I raise my hand.

I knew you did. But when someone like comes off the stage, you know, or when someone's in costume, like, you know, Spider-Man or whatever out on the street, like, absolutely not. Stay the fuck away from it. What about, like, murder mystery dinner? Like, dinner theater? I've never been to that in, like, a performance way.

I've done those, like, games in a box, and that's fun. But there's something about breaching, like, the performer audience thing where I'm, like, like, I've literally hidden under a table before have get it away from have we ever been to the magic castle together and that was fun we have right yeah but they aren't really asking you to help with the magic i see you know okay so you don't want to participate so how would one participate in the magic mike live show well i assume at some point i don't know getting on stage. Are they not having people get on stage?

Are they not coming into the audience? Well, I can tell you I haven't been. Okay. You know? And as I was rewatching all of these movies, I was like, I wonder how I would do at this. Because it is pretty interactive. That said, it does look like a lot of fun. When you say how you would do, what would you be doing other than being grinded upon?

Well, you know, a lot of them keep straight faces for a while and i would just laugh out of like discomfort so quickly does a male strip review appeal to you in general not really okay um i mean what they are doing physically is like extraordinary and there is also something of like the, the glee when, especially in Magic Mike and Magic Mike XXL, when they all are up there together doing their, like, choreography. And it's a, everyone's a little bit in on the joke, but you're also like, oh, I, this is appealing and also kind of funny. You don't have to take it too seriously. I, I, I get it. But I don't have to take it too seriously i i i get it but i don't know it's also not like

we don't really need to talk about like my like sexual preferences keep going whatever you want to talk about i don't know i mean i guess it is magic mike i think it's more about entertainment what kind of entertainment do you like you know what how do you want to spend your free time do you want to spend your time watching these guys in a movie or do you want to see it translated to the real world i mean it's relevant to the movie in a lot of ways because Soderbergh watching them put this show on after creating this universe effectively and he didn't direct the second

film. So actually the second film wasn't on our list now that I think about it because it was directed by Gregory Jacobs even though it was produced, shot, and edited by Soderbergh. It was on our list actually. Was it? Yeah. It's interesting that he's looking back on this period

of his creative life and going back to the well because it is different than Ocean's 13 in some respects, particularly because this is just a Mike movie. You know, the boys,

the Tampa gang, appears in the movie in a little bit of a cameo. It's a little bit obvious to say that that's not great but it's not great like not having Manganiello

and professional wrestler Kevin Nash and Matt Bomer and like especially McConaughey who also wasn't in XXL like not having that crew in the film

it holds it back a little bit there is a new generation of dancers who are cast in this film some of whom are like ballet dancers or abstract dancers

abstract expressionist dancers and some of whom are like ballet dancers or abstract expressionist dancers, and some of whom are like break dancers off the streets of Rome. That's an aspect of the telling of the story. They're all good, but you have no relationship to them the same way that you do Matt Bomer, who you're like, this is a character that I've been following in these two films. So I just felt a little bit of an emotional disconnect from the big sequences. One of the best set pieces is the audition montage that they do of trying to find all of these dancers. And it has a little bit of that getting the gang together feel that is so essential to Ocean's movies and also basically like all good movies. Just any time you got to get the crew together, sign me up.

Love a team up. We never did a team up movie episode. We should do that. Yeah, we have plenty more to do. Okay. But then, but then you don't learn anything else about that's it. That's the only time that you're ever getting the crew together. And otherwise they're not really, they don't have names that I know. And it's a little bit more of, I honestly like thought of boy bands and like a BTS video and all this sort of thing, which is, I guess, what a live show probably is like more than the strip show that you see in Magic Mike.

But it is a little less like personal as a result. I agree with you. Soderbergh has described this as a process movie. He loves process movies it's interesting how much you appreciate him because I have found in our years together that you have always hated people talking about their process but his ability to

make process cinematic is so interesting I aside from Steven Soderbergh I hate people who think that other people want to hear about process basically which is different than process. Like, many of our favorite movies are process movies. Like, All the President's Men is a process movie.

A Few Good Men is a process movie. Like, how things happen and things being done well is, like, the most satisfying thing in the world to me. Someone up there with their deck being like, so then we merged the something with the other and can you like fast forward a slide to shoot me in the face, you know? So- When would you be exposed to that? No comment.

Yeah, no, I agree with you. He obviously manages to sprinkle a lot of, you know, candy on top of the quote unquote process too. But he's also so good at the process i think like actually being good at something and and wanting something done well and taking like pleasure the actual pleasure in something being done well very much speaks to me and that can also be a process movie what was your favorite dance sequence in this movie? Let's see. We should talk about the opening, which I don't even really know.

I mean, it's certainly choreographed. It's a dance? I think, based on what I read, it was aggressively choreographed. No, no, no, of course. I mean, it has to be. That wasn't like a question. I'm just like, is it a dance? I think so.

I mean, it is basically a clothed sex scene but i you know what i spent a lot of time thinking about this because salma hayek goes for it and is dancing with him and at one point she's kind of like draped up against the window at like a great height and you know or as high as channing tanning can lift her and then she has to like swing her legs around and I was just like my hips cannot do that and I and Salma Hayek is like 10 to 15 years older than me it looks six years old still looks a lot better than me you know like but I've I was just kind of like look at that hip mobility and that's how you know that we're really old you know Salma Hayek has long been a kind of special effect in modern movies. Sure. And I did think of From Dusk Till Dawn, where she plays like a stripper and dancer, who is a kind of seductress and also a vampire,

which is because it's a very strange movie that I love. But this is not so far removed from the worlds that she has occupied before. She's kind of at home in this kind of a story. And she hangs with Channing Tatum. Channing Tatum, I'm just so happy to have him back. You know, the same way that Soderbergh had that interregnum where he retired, Channing Tatum Channing Tatum I'm just so happy to have him back yeah you know the same way that Soderbergh had that interregnum where he retired Channing Tatum took a long stretch off I wasn't wild about the lost city but I was happy to see him in a movie last

year he's just a very sturdy pair of shoulders to carry a movie on I just like being with his character even though you know Mike Lane is not the most emotionally sophisticated guy in movie history I mean I like that this movie doubles as a movie about Soderbergh's reluctance, but also insistence on keeping working. And then now Channing Tatum's like, I don't really want to dance. And he doesn't dance as much as he does in the other movies, but then he finally does. And you're just like, holy shit, Magic Mike is back.

But so now it's a comment both on Channing Tatum's, like, can't quite give it up. Soderbergh, like, can't quite walk away. This, like, this push-pull relationship between the thing you're really good at versus the, you know, moving on, trying to do new things. I was into it. That's definitely one of the core themes of the movie. And, I mean, look at Soderbergh since he came back from that hiatus. Eight movies since 2017. The guy loves making movies and he's so good at it yeah and i think there's work the thing too that is really interesting to me about this is there is a kind of

um economic power struggle in this movie as there is in all three of the magic white movies and that's really between these two people who are in this affair who you know the producer of this show who has hired this you know dancer to to build this whole world for her and make him the director and the kind of creative impresario of the project but really the producer is the person pulling the strings and making demands and they have this complicated relationship that you know steven soderbergh has had with some producers and some studio executives and some people who you know operate in powerful spaces over the years so all these movies like we whenever we talk about like doesn't what does the movie does a movie have anything on its mind and what what does it have on its mind is that meaningful like all of his movies the reason i like watching them even if they're not as they're

not all as like emotionally satisfying as oceans 11 he's put a lot of himself and a lot of ideas into stuff you know even if the scripts have bad dialogue, what they're about really resonates with me. Even if the setup, like, makes absolutely no sense. Which is just, like, why did she need to be staging the show to get back at her husband through complex London, like, zoning laws and also update a made-up costume drama. You know,

it was too complicated. The movies that Soderbergh has been citing as comparison points are obviously like the MGM musicals and, you know, that's entertainment,

these sort of like compilations, but also Ernst Lubitsch movies, which have these usually like kind of absurd, fantastical plots, you know, one of yourch movies, which have these usually like kind of absurd fantastical plots. You know, one of your favorite movies of all time based on a shop around the corner, you know, Nanachka, To Be or Not To Be, like these movies that have

these unusual settings that are often very grand, but like daffy characters making silly decisions, right? Side note, remember when Nancy Meyers announced that she was doing her new movie on Instagram with like a photo from Nanachka?

Did she? Yeah, but then she had to like clarify. She was like, I'm not remaking Nanachka. I just like it. Okay. Does that mean she's good at Instagram or not good? I think she's good. I think she's circled back around to good.

I see. Okay. When's that movie coming out? I think it starts shooting this. You sent this to me. Like, you consumed this content and you texted me. My brain has just been leaking

for two years straight. I know. Yeah. I think they go into production this year, allegedly. How exciting. I don't know. Do you want to be invited to the set?

Yes. Secreted into the world. Don't you think visiting a Nancy Meyers set, even in the age of austerity, would be really nice and filled with like... Maybe it should be in the age of austerity, would be really nice? Maybe it should be called the age of austerity. Filled with hydrangeas and nice coffee drinks and snacks and pashminas.

Do you think the plot is about a woman who's having one of her six kitchens taken away from her? Nancy Meyers is the age of austerity. The other thing that I like about this movie is one of my favorite ideas in general which is that there's no such thing as low art

that putting a male strip review inside of a fusty British play of comedy of manners the two things are a consonant they're not so far afield

and the reason that we like horror and we like science fiction and you know we like dance movies is just as important as your heady dramas and like if you look at what Soderbergh has been doing for the last 10 years he's like I don't give a fuck We like science fiction and, you know, we like dance movies. It's just as important as your heady dramas.

And like, if you look at what Soderbergh has been doing for the last 10 years, he's like, I don't give a fuck about prestige. Like he could care less. Every movie is a genre movie now. It's so funny that like the guy who made Traffic and Aaron Brockovich in the same year and was like, you know, at the center of the Oscars conversation. He's like, fuck all that. None of that is important. What's important is like entertaining people, having a good time, slipping some ideas in

through the Trojan horse. So it's great that he's doing that. There's been a lot of talk in, I don't know, the world of movies in Hollywood in the last five to 10 years about sex at the movies. The fact that we don't have sex scenes really in our movies anymore, that intimacy coordinators are sort of more critical to making sure that there's an understanding of safety and respect on set now. And also just that like maybe our culture has gotten a little bit more puritanical in the last 10 or 15 years relative to say when you and I were coming of age in the 1990s,

at least in our popular culture. You know, this movie actually doesn't really have any sex scenes. It has dance sequences that recall sex. Sure. But we see people post-coital we don't see yes i'm trying to i i'm trying to think in the other two movies you really you see more post-coital and that this is a common theme in soderbergh movies as well you know sex lives on videotape famously right not really not really a lot of classical sex scenes have you thought

much about the state of the sex scene? I mean, what's funny is that it's so funny because I have been watching a completely different genre of movies, but except that they have to do with romance for another thing that will be released soon. Is this your spinoff pod?

Yes, it is. The Age of Austerity. Campari Corner with Amanda. Thanks to Pizza Dad or something, whoever came up with that. Pizza Dad? Yeah, I don't know. You sent it to me, but the guy's name is Pizza Dad. Another thing I sent you that I have no recollection of.

So Pizza Dad created your spinoff show, Campari Corner? I think it was originally pitched as a JMO segment. My segment, Campari Corner. That's right, yes. But anyway, Pizza Dad really sees sees me we'll be hosting a stand for you on whistle pig alley which is uh one of the three to six hour segments we've been doing on jmo which is sponsored fully by whistle pig thank you all to them for all that they do um anyway the idea of romance in movies sex in movies and also like what actually is romantic or sexy versus the actual thing.

And I honestly feel like these two scenes, by which I mean the Salma Hayek and Channing Tatum scene that opens the movie and then the singing in the rain-esque. Well, I mean, there's rain. There's like a lot of water. I Need a Ballerina and a plumber is an incredible. But that's just super choreographed, athletic, aspirational sex happening without actual penetration, basically. Correct.

It is as close to a sex scene with clothes on as you'll ever see. Exactly. Which is funny. So there's plenty of sex in this movie. There's just not actual sex. But it's probably sexier than many actual film sex acts that are available on your computer. On your computer?

Where would I find those? I don't know. Your phone. Whatever. Like, no judgment. You got to send me those links after this pod. So, but it's just kind of funny though that it's like the movieification of it is actually what makes it is sexier than than the than the real thing and that so it doesn't matter that they're not actually fucking you're just like oh okay great do you think that the movies are missing sex scenes not these movies but all movies i don't know they don't make any romances or anything

that has enough character development that you would suddenly be like and now they need to have sex i don't know like do you actually the one time that they sort of alluded to a sex scene in a marvel movie i was excited so when was that was that when uh cap caught the hammer shortly after right then they finally had a nice little moment him and hayley atwell oh yeah sure yeah yeah yeah that was good but When he went back in time. Yeah. And then didn't, in that terrible movie about the Greek gods that you made me go see. What? With Gemma Chan and. Eternals?

Yes. Okay. I mean, that was inspired by a lot of different mythology, I guess. I shouldn't limit it to Greek mythology. They boned, remember? But it was really awkward. Oh, that's right. That was Marvel's first sex scene proper.

And Vicky. What's itard madden yes um so it wasn't a good sex scene but i was like oh this would be nice if there were room for more sex i would like marvel movies more but it would feel unearned i think the they can be used as an engine of story. Like that was what was happening even in bad 90s thrillers. Right. They were used to kind of forward plot or to reveal that, you know, someone was being unfaithful to another character or that there's a, you know,

a complicated power dynamic between characters. That's something that a sex scene can do. Right. Sure, there's like a lurid, leering aspect to it. But like, what movies are we even getting to talk about where they're exploring those dynamics well you know it's funny you ask because you didn't get a chance to see this movie but that

was one thing in fair play the new film at Sundance and I was like well this is certainly a modern rendition of a sex scene because there's no sex uh no no there is there but like the way that it's shot the way that it moves the story along like there are aspects of it and this is the film that was acquired by Netflix out of Sundance it was a big hit starring Alden Ehrenreich and it moves the story along. Like there are aspects of it. And this is the film that was acquired by Netflix out of Sundance. It was a big hit starring Alden Ehrenreich. And it was the first time in a while where I thought, oh, and it's not just because it's an erotic thriller of a kind, but that it was using it to tell the story.

It wasn't, this wasn't a Cinemax movie that was just like, and now the actress takes her top off. Like it was something very different. So I do feel like, obviously Magic Mike is not quite in that realm, but it could, I don't know quite in that realm, but it could, I don't know if we need it, but it can be helpful. We don't need to just quick cut to two people in bed.

And that's what happens oftentimes in movies now. So what you're arguing now is that we should have seen more sex in Magic Mike's last dance. Yeah, I think Tatum should have whipped it out. I think he should have just, I mean, what's he got to lose at this point? That's true.

Guy's a god. I don't know. I thought it was fine. I didn't miss it in this because there was so much other... They basically gave it to you. Yeah, they gave it to you. And I felt like the ways that they gave it to you were like of a piece with the movie itself and exploring like what is sexy and what isn't in movies.

If more Marvel characters want to have sex, I'm okay with that too. Let's talk a little bit about Soderbergh. Zoomed out for a second. Okay. I loved what Richard Brody wrote about Soderbergh in his review of this movie. This is what he wrote. The tension of sincerity and cynicism, the entertainer's public face, and the creator's personal drive are the engine on which the Magic Mike trilogy runs. And in many ways, I think really the engine on which Soderbergh's career and his life's work runs, you know, the idea that he is very knowing and very tongue-in-cheek about

a lot of things, but also is a very passionate, emotional filmmaker. And I think it frankly describes a lot of how we operate too. This is why he's my guy. Yeah. Yeah. So we didn't really get a chance to dig into his culture diary, which is something that we always do. It's like Christmas every year. I was away from my phone for like 30 minutes when it dropped. This time I came back to like 45 texts from you and Chris and like everyone in my life who knows with like various screenshots of different moments. This is just, it really speaks to me. This year was not a disappointment.

I thought we would go over some of our highlights. Yeah. This dropped about a month ago on his extension 765 website, where you can also buy Singani 63, which is the, I don't know. Is it like a plum brandy that he sells? I've never tasted it.

Oh, I have. Did you get any for the taste test that we're never going to have? I didn't buy any. Okay. Two things. One, we will have the taste test.

I promise. I was going to say. We will. Let me counter propose the Watch Along Dark Knight Rises with you, which is pair that with a taste test. With the taste test? I just, if I'm going to listen to you guys do Bane for three hours. Where's Bane? That's a very appealing offer.

I'm not sure I like this new idea where Amanda just drops ideas live on the podcast so that you can't totally shoot them down because then there's a certain percentage

of listeners who are just like that has to happen but Bob that's a really clear sign because Chris is doing the same thing now that's where the

Dark Knight Rises thing came from and it's just like they're just sick of me and my stupid ideas so they're just going to start secreting their own ideas onto the pod

well you have full domain in the text message but on the pod it's like, they're just sick of me and my stupid ideas. So they're just going to start secreting their own ideas onto the pod. Well, you have full domain in the text message, you know, but on the pod, it's more democratic. You know what? It doesn't even have to be a full taste test, but why don't you do like

pairings for each hour? I was going to try to sneak a little bit of alcohol onto the work premises, but you're now proposing in public that we bring lots of alcohol into this podcast.

We are doing The Dark Knight Rises as a watch along officially, I think on March 6th. The four of us, me, Amanda, Chris, and Bob will all be in person. That'll be very fun. I have had Singani 63. It also makes it a very brief and very funny appearance in Magic Mike's Last Dance. And Sean just yelled to me, that's his liquor!

I didn't yell. Wait, can I just say, let me just thank you. I would like to share with everyone the circumstances in which Sean and I got to see Magic Mike's Last Dance

which is I texted Sean and I said hey Sean you want to have a mall margarita before Magic Mike's Last Dance

and Sean my true friend said yes and he met me at 545 on a Monday at Ben Affleck's favorite mall

and had a like what was a strawberry mar, what was it? A strawberry margarita? I did have a strawberry margarita. You rule. It was great. Thank you so much. It was really fun. So I got to have my girls night out. We had a great time. Yeah. I've never felt closer to you. We got to watch men writhe on stage shortly thereafter. It was beautiful. It was a nice night. Yeah. The Culture Diary was a nice morning for me. I'm going to give you my first highlight. Okay. So, you know, if nobody's ever heard us talk about this before, every year he literally plots all of the films, TV series, books he's read.

Short stories. And short stories as well. So it's sort of his media diet for 365 days. This year, the month of February was fascinating to me. On February 11th, he watched a movie called marked woman now this is one reason why i love what he does i've never heard of marked woman this movie stars humphrey bogart and it is directed in an uncredited fashion by michael curtis okay the director of casablanca bobby and this may have been i think the first time that bogart and curtis worked together and so I added that film

in my watch list is that a movie? it's a movie Bob that we're making you watch in just a few short months so get freaking ready but on the same day he also watched

The Worst Person in the World and Alien 3 I marked this down as well because The Worst Person in the World to Alien 3 is really special it's fantastic

and of course Alien 3 directed by his close friend David Fincher who disavows it who disavows it it's just amazing. Why did he do it? Why did he watch these three movies on this day?

It's fabulous. I love it. Give me a highlight. Okay, so there's one overarching theme, which is for some reason last year, Steven Soderbergh read like, if not the complete works, then several novels by the novelist Elizabeth Taylor,

not to be confused with Elizabeth Taylor of White Diamonds fame she's like I think Elizabeth Taylor the novelist is best known for Mrs. Claremont

at the Palfrey which is a wonderful novel that I also read last year I think it was reissued recently by New York Review of books like the classics

you know that edition so I think that's why we were all reading it but we were and I was as well this is a much older novel okay does she predate Elizabeth Taylor the actress unfortunately edition so i think that's why we were all reading it but we were and i was as much older novel okay

does she predate elizabeth taylor the actress i i unfortunately i think they're sort of contemporaneous which is tough for the novelist here i'm pulling it up now english novelist um yeah born in 1912 died in 1975 look at that yeah um so and kind of like a a celebrated in the literary world as like one of the great English novelists. And this is her work. And so there was a moment last year where all the lit people were reading this book. Okay. And so not only did he read this book, but then he just read all of them.

I don't know whether it's for some sort of project or whether he's just really curious. Do you think he's in a book club? Can you imagine him being in a book club? I don't know. He's a very convivial man. I love talking to him a couple years ago i have to be honest i love reading more than anything and i like talking about books with my friends you and i were just speaking about a novel before we started recording i don't know what you do in a book club i think there's something about like the organization of it you host a podcast isn't that basically what it is? Yeah, but I think that, and maybe this goes back

to audience participation, but there's something about like, now we're going to like answer a question and everyone's like going to go around and circle and talk about their feelings. Right. Of course, this goes back to your hang up here.

That I'm just like, I would, it just makes me want to melt into the floor. That's so embarrassing. Even with really close friends? There's something about it being organized as opposed to organic that I find mortifying. Yes.

What else did he read on this day? Just that book? No. So on this day, he read that book or finished it. You know, I always assume that he's putting the date on which he finished these things. Yeah. Well, we've wondered this in the past. Does he read books in one day or not?

He watched a film, I'm assuming a documentary, called Neymar, The Perfect Chaos. And then he also read Vladimir by Julia Mae Jonas, which brings me to the other kind of overarching theme of this that I absolutely love, is that my guy reads more contemporary fiction by female authors than anyone know, but me and the other people who like program book clubs. It's in every single thing. Here's a list of things he read last year. He read Taylor Jenkins read. He read The Maid. He read The Long Weekend. He read Elif Batuman and Jennifer Egan. He read Counterfeit by Kristen Chen. It's like all the highbrow literary stuff, all of like the commercial fiction. He's just doing all of it i i maybe he is in a

book club like maybe that's how he i've often speculated that his partner is an avid reader as well and perhaps they read books together yeah but my partner is also an avid reader and he wouldn't be caught dead reading any of this stuff he's been reading the wheel of time over and over again for many many it's amazing i don't And it's not like he's reading this plus reading all of the other it lit fiction or genre novels. It's like doing this and watching true crime documentaries. Yes, that's a huge part of it. I didn't really cite any of those. He definitely checked out Bad Vegan, among others. I did want to point out that on Valentine's Day, he watched the film Seven Days in May. I'm not, he watched the film Seven Days in May.

I'm not sure if you've seen Seven Days in May. It's a movie that I'm a huge fan of. It's directed by John Frankenheimer. I would say it is not at all romantic. In fact, here's the plot summary of Seven Days in May. U.S. President Jordan Lyman hopes to bring an end to the Cold War by signing a nuclear disarmament treaty with the Soviets, much to the displeasure of the hawkish General James Scott, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. When Scott's aide Martin Jiggs' case, he stumbles on shattering evidence that the general is plotting a coup to overthrow Lyman in seven days.

Jiggs alerts the president, setting off a dangerous race to thwart the takeover. Incredible. That's Valentine's Day. Can I pair another holiday well spent with you just a very funny one i don't know if you noticed this skipping ahead to christmas eve where he watched rr and all about eve amazing and then on christmas day just watched the thick of it that's good i didn't see that what a legend and that's also how i'd like to spend my christmas eve and christmas i man if there's anything in the world that can challenge all about eve it might be the thick of it for me i love the thick of it so much that's a great tv series if people

have not heard of it um what else uh you got another one yeah june 4th what happened the all-time day you saw top gun maverick and then he watched four episodes of borgen i don't even know what to say i'm'm speechless. Yeah. You've been seduced by a spreadsheet. This is incredible. I really, at some point, I begin to wonder, is this some sort of organized joke on me? I don't know what to say to that. That is my soulmate right there. Here's why he's my soulmate.

Yeah. that is my soulmate right there. Here's why he's my soulmate. On April 12th, he watched Chimes at Midnight, which is Orson Welles' Falstaff film, Alfred Hitchcock's Notorious, Douglas Sirk's All That Heaven Allows, and Billy Wilder's Sunset Boulevard. Just mainline four movies a day. Now, people often ask me, Sean, why are you such a psychopath? Why do you watch 700 movies a year? And I say, because I am inspired by my heroes. Yeah. By men like Steven Soderbergh, who choose to watch four of the greatest films ever made

consecutively in one day. Yeah. Does he have anything else going on in his life besides those four films? Who cares? When you have all that heaven allows, what else do you need? So do you think that it's just like,

he has a break in the schedule, family is away, no obligations. He's just like, I a break in the schedule. Family is away. No obligations. He's just like, I'm going in to the theater and I'm not leaving till midnight. I can only hope. I mean, that's what I imagine for myself. Do you think that this is planned or do you think it's like free associating? I'm going to watch this. Oh, I've been wanting to watch this.

We've got to get the man on the show to ask him that. I don't know. I don't know. If it's unplanned, if he spontaneously is pulling Blu-rays off the shelf, or maybe he's got, you know, maybe he's got those canisters of film in his possession. Okay. And he's just, he's firing up Notorious. One thing that I know in my heart about Steven Soderbergh is that he is not going to bore me with those details. Like, he's just like, it is what it is.

Okay. He's just going to put the film on yeah he's like i have the media i'm gonna try to watch it in the best circumstances possible and we're gonna go on with our day uh great that's great um um what what give me another highlight okay um i know i already did books but in addition to all of the contemporary literature that he read he read three mystery novels this year he read agatha christie's the The Murder of Roger Ackroyd which is like most famous of Agatha Christie's and then he read two of the six books that were a part of the made up Amanda's Mystery Book Club which I uh did in December because at the end of the year I just like read mystery novels that's my treat to myself including one

that I read over New Year's Eve as did Steven Soderbergh by Richard Osman. I just want to say, is he hacking my Amazon list? I don't really know what's going on. I buy books local, so it's not on Amazon. Maybe he actually has hired a private detective to follow you? What are the other options here? What's going on so in the month of August yeah we took a couple of weeks off on this show and I got to travel

a little bit and then you made your glorious return that's right and Steven Soderbergh took no days off in fact

he watched the film The Killer directed by his dear friend David Fincher not one not two three, but four times over the course of six days in August of 2022. That's friendship. Yeah. Would CR do that for me?

Would he watch my adaptation of a French noir graphic novel four times in six days? No, but I feel like you would watch his adaptation of plain trash like as many times as necessary and that's beautiful i would i would but that's the difference is that i will give to him and he will not give to me this is the pain of our relationship yeah it's not true uh one more highlight oh me yeah u.s women's u.s open women's final u.s open men's with Confess Fletch somewhere in the middle. Really? You might have to talk to your husband about this.

I hope he doesn't listen to this one because I hope it's like so many Philly specials that pre-Super Bowl that he doesn't hear this because he like starts to get a little miffed about this. Sure. But I didn't do anything. I didn't publish this list. You know? That's true. Someone else did. Yeah.

A man that you are pining after. I just want to say on December 10th of 2022, Steven Soderbergh watched The Masked Scammer, which what the fuck is that?

I don't know what that is. And then he watched The Menu, The Fablemans, and Decision to't know what that is. And then you watch The Menu, The Fableman's, and Decision to Leave. What a king. All in the same day. What a king.

What? The Menu, The Fableman's, Decision to Leave, that's like seven hours of movie. I don't know. We gotta bottle something up, whatever's in his brain.

He's the best. The attention span of this man to watch this many films in one day and still have critical thoughts about them. It's so remarkable. I really admire it. You know, Rolling Stone did ask him about

his favorite show, which he has been listing on these lists for years and years. And he finally spoke on his love for the reality show Below Deck. And here's what Soderbergh said. It's about work. It's about problem solving at work when you've got huge personality clashes, class issues, and talk about intimate. The way that these people live on these boats, even these big boats, is crazy. If you designed a psychological experiment like this, you would, like Stanley Milgram,

be thrown out of academia. It's crazy what a pressure cooker these trips are for everyone involved. I like the work aspect of it. These people work hard. That's it. That's what he's interested in i know people who are good at their fucking jobs and execute yeah are you gonna grind on a 58 year old woman's lap you better be good at it are you gonna rob a you know a casino be good at it i love him he's the best i i agree uh how are you feeling about the kind of like late period Soderbergh? Because this is four movies in a row for Warner Brothers.

And we've covered all four. And I think in all four reviews, Let Them All Talk from 2020, No Sudden Move from 2021, Kimmy from 2022, and now Magic Mike's Last Dance. I would say we have not been over the moon about any of them, but have not disliked any of them either.

So is this just kind of like late stage otor doing what he wants to do reveling in his own gifts is it part of a bigger mission like how do you read this era i do think it's ultimately part of a larger mission which is the mission that you talked about which is just someone wanting to try cool shit and he likes working too that you know he likes working too. He likes watching people work, but he does not sit still. It's very funny that the final cut of a movie on his culture diary is always two days after they've wrapped shooting. My guy is just like, let's get it done so we can do the next thing. He wants to try things. So I think it's part of that project. He's trying a lot of things I mean okay one of these

it was a movie starring Meryl Streep and Candice Bergen and Diane Wiest on a cruise ship and he just was like sure let's go on the Queen Mary

like legend No Sudden Move is I think that's probably the one that we've underrated a little

as I was thinking about this I wanted to revisit it yeah because it also was released like in deep COVID and I don't know that I was necessarily paying this I wanted to revisit it yeah because it also was released like in deep COVID right and I don't know that I was necessarily paying attention to it

the way I would have in a different time but it's slightly less of a lark and slightly more developed as a like genre

like the script is like makes a bit more sense um or maybe it doesn't make sense but just feels a little more cooked uh and everything about it

the casting the performances I I kind of I think it's a gem Kimmy I liked a lot I did too

as I look back I'm like maybe I underrated that one too in 2022 Kimmy also that was one that I caught up on way later because it was literally

like the day my son was born or maybe like a day later so I liked the fact that there was just a cool Steven Soderbergh movie like sitting on HBO X waiting for me. That was a real like, wow, the future is great. I believe Magic Mike's Last Dance was originally conceived to be an HBO Max movie. And then after the acquisition of Warner Brothers

by this Discovery conglomerate, they changed their plans. And now they've, you know, they're releasing a lot of films in theaters this year that they otherwise were going to release directly to the service, which is great because people can go see this movie. I'm not sure what to expect in terms of the box office. It doesn't feel like this is running too hot right now in the culture. There's also, you know, more competition, you know, Knock at the Cabin second week, 80 for Brady second week, Avatar 2 continues to thrive. I'm curious. I did a movie theater the other day,

just catching up. And there was just a large group of disgruntled elders having some issue with their 80 for Brady screening. And I was like, you got to get out of here.

That sounds horrible. All of those people should be sent to New England to live forever. I felt the people who be sent to New England to live forever. I felt the people who are to the theater were being so patient. And I was just like, God bless. I would absolutely lose my mind eight different ways. Sean, is there an athlete that you would go see an 80 for Brady style movie for?

Your's is Federer, right? Federer. You do Federer. I'll be in it. 80 for Raj. Yeah. Me and Jane Fonda. You'll be in the film. Federer you do Federer I'll be in it 80 for Raj yeah me and Jane Fonda sounds fucking great sign me the sign me up uh I I would I would do it for pretty much all of the icons of my favorite teams I don't there are literally only about money you would accept to

go see 80 for Brady I'm willing to open that up to the public at large. If you are on Twitter would like to Venmo me to go see 80 for Brady, the bid opens at $500 USD. Honestly, like you should do this for charity. I would,

I would do that. I feel like you could make get on Spotify live right afterwards and talk about how much I hated the movie. I probably would like the movie except for the fact

that it's about Tom Brady. Yeah. Fucking love Jane Fonda. Who doesn't like Jane Fonda? for the fact that it's about Tom Brady. Yeah. Fucking love Jane Fonda. Who doesn't like Jane Fonda? Wishing you only wonderful things, Tom Brady. Fucking incredible.

God, get him out of football immediately. It's funny that you mentioned No Sudden Move because that movie was written by Ed Solomon and Soderbergh's next project

is called Full Circle. It's an HBO Max series. Here's the logline. An investigation into a botched kidnapping uncovers long-held secrets connecting multiple characters and cultures in present-day New York City. Stars Zazie Beetz, Dennis Quaid,

Claire Danes, Timothy Oliphant. Sign me the fuck up. Love it. I'm sure it'll make absolutely no sense, and I can't wait. Did you ever finish Mosaic? No. Okay, I did.

It was really good. But when I was looking at our rankings for the last time we did the Soderbergh rankings, I felt like Side Effects was far too low, even though I had absolutely no idea what was going on in that movie. Could be. There's a sex scene in that film. Yeah. As I recall.

Right? Rooney Mara? No? I don't remember. Probably. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, right?

Yes. In 100 meters, turn right. no turn left there's some awesome new breakfast wraps at mcdonald's really yeah there's the sausage bacon and egg a crispy seasoned chicken one mmm a spicy and egg worth the detour they sound amazing that they taste amazing too wish i had a mouth Take your morning into a delicious new direction with McDonald's new breakfast wraps. Add a small premium roast coffee for a dollar plus tax. At participating McDonald's restaurants. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba. One thing I wanted to just tack on to this conversation is dance movies.

You know, the Magic Mike movies. These are like the best dance movies of really the last 10 years, right? I mean, what else? movies these are like the best dance movies of really the last 10 years right i mean absolutely what what's what else there's uh maybe a couple of exceptions but certainly as far as like franchises or like recognizable things chenny tatum of course got his start in the step-up films and that i think that really launched his career and launched his marriage actually as well that first step-up movie and i think in part led to the rise of the magic mike story but um you you love dance movies. I do.

What do you look for in a dance movie? Well, thanks for asking because you asked me to make a list and I went through like a long thing. Like an emotional journey? An emotional journey to make my list and to decide what I wanted to represent because... I tried to leave some holes for you. Like you sort of did and you sort of did it because you said top five dance movies we decided on this together actually and then you know i'm

sitting there and i'm like i okay i'm not gonna do singing in the rain we've talked about it left it there for you we've done it 5 000 times everyone knows you know and then i was like i'm not gonna do west side story everyone knows what i think of the choreography of jerome robbins you know and then i was like i'm not gonna do west side story everyone knows what i think of the choreography of jerome robbins you know didn't put either of these movies on my list and then you took the fossey before i could even put it on the list so i'm sitting there and i'm like sure i know but like i've already talked about cabaret and when we did our sweet charity you could have that one okay when we did our musicals episode that was basically my list of like the best dance sequences and for the most part and dance movies and and I think like in a dance movie I'm I am looking for I I see a dance set piece as like action and to me that it's like when I get really excited it's like are you able

to capture it on screen and make it feel alive and electric and get a sense of the movement but we've already done all that so i started thinking about other movies that i want to talk about and i basically inadvertently made up my own genre of ballet trash so that is what i'm doing and so in and no one is ever going to let me do ballet trash you know as its own episode well au contraire there is a film in development right now an extended an extension of the john wick universe okay called ballerina okay i believe starring anna darmus about a ballerina assassin i mean that's cool but that's gonna be like you know maybe she'll kill someone with like a you know fouette or whatever and that'll be nice but you know maybe she'll kill someone with like a you know

fouette or whatever and that'll be nice but you know what i mean okay this is this is about ballet trash is when there is someone who's got the skills uh and who who loves to dance more than anything but does not fully meet what the dance community thinks of as a perfect dancer. And then they triumph anyway. And whether that's they triumph at summer camp or they triumph in an international conspiracy to defeat communism, they make it work and that's and so it's about the power of dance to express oneself and prove all the haters wrong i can't wait to hear your list yeah that's sounds very crazy um i definitely was like well i would gotta leave west side story open for amanda

and we're just not gonna have west side story on our dance movies list so no hold on hold on bobby and can we tell David as well? David, who is our wonderful social media manager who makes the graphics. I needed to say top five ballet trash movies. Okay. On my list. Okay? What should it say on my list?

It can say dance movies for you. It should say just different things. Okay. We will negotiate that. Okay. But what I really want to do is not do that and just have people think that these are your five favorite dance movies. Everyone knows what I think about Singing in the Rain and West Side Story.

Okay, it's funny that you talk about the idea of like, you're doing the snapping, right? That's great. Thanks. Thanks for reminding me that you didn't put this on your list, even though I didn't put it on mine. I think there's five types of dance movies. Okay.

That you meet. I want to share this because we're not going to really do a good job of capturing the history of dance on screen in our conversation here, especially because I also had kind of like a sub-theme to the films that I picked that I thought would work in opposition years,

but now definitely will not. So the first kind of movie you meet is like the big, brassy Hollywood musical, right? Right. The classic MGM musical, the singing in the rain type of movie. Yeah. I have one of those kind of sort of reflected on my list. The other is like a bold emotional drama center around dance, which it sounds like you will

at least have one or two of those. Well, sort of. Okay. I definitely have one of those. And then there is, of course, the ballet rigorous training horror movie yes tried and true classic um suspect that'll come up in your in your discussions another is the up from the streets kind of using dance to elevate your lifestyle kind of a movie and then i think one of those this kind of corresponds a little bit with the fifth one which is sort of like a subcultural

uh exploration movie so like if you look at break-in or you look at stomp the yard or like set the step up series, like all those films fit in a lot of films that like integrate like hip hop dancing styles or jazz dancing styles or things that we don't think of as necessarily as like gussied up as ballet all fit into those molds. And so you'll have one of those as well. Yes. Okay.

That's exciting. I don't know that I have one of those really accurate. Well, I have two actually. Yes. Okay. Do you want to? Oh, I'm looking at your list right now. Oh, this is very chaotic. Yeah. I'm glad one of them is represented. I told you. Okay. I've actually never seen your number five. So what's, tell me Are you serious? You've never seen White Nights? Holy shit. Who let me see this movie when I was like eight years old? So here's what happened is that my parents believed in the performing arts. And so they signed me up. Look at you now. And they signed me up for piano classes and cello classes and all sorts of dance classes. I took a lot of dance classes really up until high school.

Loved it. And I'm sure some other shit too but I'm like a really shit drawer and and painter and all that stuff so that didn't go very far anyway and at some point they felt that I also needed to see like the corresponding like movies and media so at a very young age I saw Amadeus great choice at a very young age I saw um what's the Glenn Gould film called? 33 short films about Glenn Gould. Yes, which, you know, it's a classic Dad, I'm Seven experience, but I saw it. And also.

That's a really weird movie to watch at seven years old. Really weird. You know, they were trying to teach me about the greats. And then at some point, before the age of 10, I saw 1995. I saw 1985's White Nights. Explain it. I don't even know what this is about. Oh my God. Okay. This is 1985's White Nights. Explain it. I don't even know what this is about. Oh, my God.

Okay, this is directed by Taylor Hackford. And this is when he met Helen Mirren, apparently. Because Helen Mirren's in this movie, along with Mikhail Baryshnikov, one of the great dancers of the modern era. Gregory Hines, another great dancer. And apparently, this is Isabella Rossellini's feature film debut. Really? That's what they said.

Maybe international film debut. Yeah, this is right before Blue Velvet then. Right. And so here's what happens. So Mikhail Baryshnikov is a dancer who has defected. He's a Soviet dancer, Russian

dancer who's defected to the U.S. sometime in the 70s. And this is set during the early 80s Cold War. He's on a tour. He's got one last stop on the tour in Japan. They're flying over Siberia and there's an electrical issue on the plane. And so then they have to crash land in Siberia. So honestly, I thought of LA Trash because like this could also be sky trash but anyway they land and then the kgb comes to recapture baryshnikov and they make him live with an american dancer who has defected to russia or the soviet union um to keep a watch on him and try to coax him to perform again in the Soviet Union. But the American answer is played by Gregory Hines. And then Gregory Hines

is married to Isabella Rossellini and she gets pregnant. And he then decides that he regrets his defection and wants to raise the kid in the U.S. So the three of them have to work to figure out how to get out of the Soviet Union through the power of dance and deception. Can I tell you something? Can I tell you something can I tell you something the dance in this movie is choreographed by Twyla Tharp I swear to god like this is it's um there's not that much dancing except there's like this really electric scene where like Baryshnikov is like back on the stage in Russia with Helen Mirren and it is just like sort of doing like his like homage to his heritage but in like a very like cynical way and it's just like this is doing like his like homage to his heritage, but in like a very like cynical way. And it's just like, this is the power, you know, power of dance moves me. Anyway, dance doesn't actually free them.

It's just kind of their wiles do. I haven't seen this film. Do you think that they all die in Russia? No, but you just said dance doesn't free them. I just don't give it away. Well, I don't know. This is about dance. Anyway, this is an insane movie that is not that good, but hilarious.

I definitely am familiar with it as an odd cultural object. Yeah. I don't know why I've never seen it, but I should check it out. Right. I mean, I don't know what's more random, that it's a dancer. I mean, you know, the Russians do have like a history of of ballet but then also that just randomly the american defector is living in siberia i guess he's being punished i don't know why he's embraced the motherland i want to i want to backtrack for a second you're saying this is

the fifth greatest representation of dance in cinema history i told you 100 years of cinema i told you i'm doing ballet trash okay uh so of cinema. I told you I'm doing ballet trash. Okay. So the sub-theme that I was bringing to this. Which is not as fun as ballet trash. It's definitely not.

I mean, it's not fun at all because I think I view this very differently. But all five of the films that I picked are about the agony of dance. Like how the incredible physical toll

that this work does on you. If you've ever, my mom actually worked in a dance studio. My sister, much like you, took dance all the way until she was 20 years old um i've been exposed to this world yeah uh very closely and these people are fucking miserable it's so hard what to what they do and so i thought it would i've always thought it was interesting in films like this to think about you know there's of course the old canard about ginger rogers you know like backwards and

heels and just the incredible amount of precision and strength that goes into the work that is done also it's always a great metaphor for struggle you know and like no better example to me than they shoot horses don't they which is this wonderful movie i believe it's sydney pollack's directorial debut um it's made in 1969 but but it's set during the Depression, based on a famous novel. And it's all about a dance marathon. And the prize for the dance marathon is $1,500 in silver dollars.

It's set basically in Santa Monica, and all of these poor people are forced to quote-unquote dance, which begins as a kind of slow dance and then eventually evolves into this brutal, rollerballistic, agonizing race to the finish. Try not to basically fall down and die experience.

Jane Fonda is the star of this movie. Gig Young plays the MC in this movie. He's Oscar nominated for his performance. He's amazing in this movie as the person who is driving these poor broke kids to keep on dancing. But the version of dance like slowly devolves into this like really ugly messy sad thing it's not about exaltation it's definitely not about sex it's about people

just like trying to survive by staying on their feet it's great like metaphor movie incredible i actually wish sydney pollack made more movies that were like this mean it's just like a really sad devastating american tragedy and it happens like right at the pinnacle of the new hollywood and kind of signals i think in a lot of ways like where movies are going and how we how we see ourselves and go back to the past to see the mistakes that we made for the future but really amazing movie that is also like a pure dance movie the almost entire movie is this a guy sort of remembering stumbling into this dance marathon and then seeing just the anarchy the pain the drama um so if folks haven't seen they shoot horses don't they

is it the greatest dance movie of all time it is not west side story it is not singing in the rain but it is something you had the opportunity i did we talk about west side story and singing in the rain all the time this reminds me bobby have you seen Singing in the Rain? No. I knew it! I was falling asleep last night and I was like, I gotta ask Bobby on air if he's ever seen Singing in the Rain.

I knew it! We're gonna have to do a movie swap where it's just Bob watches five movies. We don't watch any movies. What do you think, Bob? That sounds just like

film class, but for free. So thank you. I mean, I'm happy to do that. It's much more expensive at my alma mater so uh amanda what's your number four i'm sexy i'm cute i'm popular to boot i'm bitchin great hair boys i want to stare i can keep going it's bring it on see now this film amanda i have seen many

times that's right bobby okay this is bring it, released in 2000, directed by Peyton Reed. Some might say this is a movie about cheerleaders, but this is also a movie about white performers stealing choreography from more talented black performers. And so it is a quintessential dance movie. This was a prequel to Elvis, as I recall. Yeah, exactly. Stars Kirsten Dunst, my queen, in one of of her great performances she's very good in this film um this is sort of my high school teen movie subculture um and 2000s pick because this uh

starts this is in 2000 and then i i want to say you got served as like 2003 and then step up as 2006 and so there's a really fun time with the movies yeah these movies are all a lot of fun to And then I want to say you got served as like 2003 and then step up as 2006. And so there's a really fun time at the movies. Yeah. These movies are all a lot of fun to see in a movie theater. Yes. And I did see this one in a movie theater. Just and it brings also that competition element.

And then the right team wins also, which is great. That's Gabrielle Union's team, the Clovers. So I absolutely love this movie. I think there have been somewhere between 14 and 17 direct-to-video sequels to the Bring It On films. That is actually another signifier of a really successful, at least, ballet trash movie. All of these have multiple sequels that I've never seen. It's really fascinating. My number four is a movie that I picked because I thought you were going to pick Singing in the Rain. But I'm just going to talk about it anyway because I think I might have recommended it before.

At first, I thought maybe An American in Paris. In part because as I was watching Magic Mike's Last Dance, I was like, Vincent Minelli. This is what he's after. He's trying to do a Vincent Minelli movie. It's much more lavish and balletic relative to the Magic Mike movies. And it's about set dressing and movement. And it's about like set dressing and movement. And it's not just about like grinding. You know, there's something,

particularly the choreography in that wet sequence that you were describing earlier, reminded me a lot of Insominelli. And then I was like, that doesn't really fit with the theme of my embittered sadness of dance. So I thought about like the most bitter, cynical Stanley Don and Gene Kelly movie ever made,

which is It's Always Fairweather, which is their last collaboration after making four movies together, four of the greatest movie musicals of all time, On the Town, Singing in the Rain, and then The Bandwagon, and then they followed up with It's Always Fair Weather, which is about three GIs, guys who become friends, go to World War II, and they agree before they leave to meet back at a bar that they frequented and to stay friends and, you know, reunite and, you know, not lose touch with one another. And so they do that. It's Gene Kelly, Dan Daly, and the great Michael Kidd, the famed choreographer who choreographed this movie. And they do, in fact, serve in the war, and then they reunite. And then they find that, you know, maybe they weren't exactly the great friends that they thought they were and that life changes.

But someone discovers this story about them and then they become these kind of quasi-celebrities and they get thrust into this world of fame. And then it's not so far afield from like A Face in the Crowd or a movie about just like how actually awful and cruel the fame cycle can be. These movies were made 75 years ago

and they're so smart about stuff that like the Kardashians and Paris Hilton taught us. Anyhow, this movie was a huge flop. And during the making of it, Kelly and Donnan, who their collaboration changed movies forever.

They broke up. They got in huge fights during the making of this movie and they went their separate ways and they never spoke again. They were not, their friendship ended which is so

tragic and I mean they they both went on to live decades more but the movie itself which is very downbeat ultimately and kind of sad in some ways features to your point

about action sequences like some of the greatest dance sequences ever choreographed and the movie itself doesn't hang together in quite the brilliant way that singing in the rain

does or even maybe necessarily the band wagon but there's a sequence in a set in a boxing ring with sid cherise that is like to me is the the example of what hollywood could do in the 1950s where i'm like i feel like this is it feels animated you know it feels unreal to me what she's able to do what the dancers are able to do the way that it's shot the way that it feels um and you could just go on YouTube and just watch those sequences, but it works so much better when you let it happen in sequence while you're watching the film. So if you haven't seen It's Always Fairweather, I always thought it was great because it basically

gives me both things that I want. The sort of the cynical and the emotional uplift that Soderbergh specializes in. And it would be a great double feature with Last Dance, honestly. Knox and I watched Gene Kelly dance with Jerry last night. Oh, yes. Yeah. That's from An American in Paris, right? No, Anchors Away. Oh, Anchors Away.

Yes, okay. That, we just watched it on YouTube and it was great. Gene Kelly, my fave to ever do it. He's really good. Yeah. Okay, what's your number three? What is my number three? Oh, yeah.

Come on, Dirty Dancing. I was quite certain you were going to pick this one. Yeah, yeah. Come on. Dirty Dancing. I was quite certain you were going to pick this one. Yeah, obviously. And I do think that this fits in a trash category, even though it really elevates the trash category. This is obviously the story of Baby, who is not put in a corner, but gets to dance with Patrick Swayze and gets the lift which is just this single most glorious like dance moment in film like when she finally is being lifted up i don't know i mean every there there are plenty of nice routines and moments and and set pieces for our generation it resonates come on when she's flying oh it's really it's really beautiful are you a Patrick Swayze person yeah I am

I mean Roadhouse you fuck with that not really but this and Ghost and Point Break his pelvis

yeah sure Point Break I mean I'm not a monster but I think I told the story of watching this on a plane

without sound recently and you don't need it because you just watch him move and you can fill in everything else. It's really very beautiful. Is this horned up Amanda again?

I mean, in a lot of ways, I feel like Patrick Swayze taught me about sex in the way that, because he is sort of a proto Channing Tatum in that sense of the way that he dances is very pelvic oriented. And if you're young and watching this and Ghost for the first time, I mean, when I saw Ghost for the first time and I watched the pottery scene and I was like, I think something

else is going on here, but I'm not sure what, you know, so I was young. Has a man ever sung She's Like the Wind to you? No, and I hope he never does. Again, I don't like performance interact like audience performer interaction and i don't like people singing to me what if nox sang it to you no my number three is a movie called pina which i don't know if a lot of people have seen but i remember this movie very vividly because it was released in 2011 it's directed by the great german filmmaker vim vendors and it is it was started out as a collaboration with,

and then ultimately was made as a tribute to Pina Bosch, the incredible choreographer. And I was living in New York in 2011 and frequenting often, and this is when my kind of like movie going was exploding, frequenting BAM quite a bit. And this film, this trailer played before every single movie of bam for like nine

months and it's i think i think in part what happened is um i think it was released at film festival and it took a long time for it to come out in theaters but also you know it started out when pina bosh was still alive and and ben venders was working with her to execute to sort of put on screen some of her greatest um choreographed routines of all time and the movie is like sort of a documentary but really more of a performance piece. There are sequences where the dancers that she worked with are talking about her methodology and her process and her creativity, but it's really just an excuse to show the way that she evolved modern dance in an amazing way. And I wouldn't say I'm like a modern dance head or expert. In fact, I remember being very into the show

So You Think You Can Dance at this time. This is something my wife and I watch all the time. I don't know if you remember when this, it kind of launched

on the back of American Idol and it was sort of like the next great version of an adaptation of a British competition show. I mean, I've heard of this show So You Think You Can Dance. Yes.

So You Think You Can Dance, for what felt like three years, I was like not embarrassed to be watching it. And this is not like Dancing with the Stars. It was more sophisticated than that. It was like professional dancers competing and showing what they could do. And I think it like opened my eyes up a little bit to what that world is like. Just fast forward to 2022, I'm watching Babylon. Babylon ends and it's like choreography by Mandy Moore, not the singer Mandy Moore, but the choreographer who was one of the stars of

So You Think You Can Dance. She was one of the judges. And she, frankly, while watching that show, taught me a lot about dance and would cite Pina while talking. And so there's like a little bit of connective tissue. This is like a very slight documentary, but an amazing performance movie. And so if you just want to see really cool sequences of bodies in motion, highly recommend. You seen this? I don't think so. It's pretty cool. But

you are like, you are how I wound up watching 32 short films about Glenn Gould at like age 10 right now. And I need you to like have a little more fun. No, I, I feel things deep in my heart. Okay. That's, that's what makes me, me. Okay. Um, what's your number? My number two is Magic Mike. This is my Channing Tatum choice. Were, were we do this? I was allowed to do this because I made up my own genre. And it counts in my genre of trash because of some aforementioned casting and performance choices. But this also is, as I said, I think this is Soderbergh singing in the rain. So singing in the rain is not on my list, but this is. Do you like a man in chaps?

No. Okay? No. Okay. No. Magic, what's your... These guys are not my personal taste, but they have such charisma that it's undeniable. The Magic Mike trilogy or the Oceans trilogy? Oceans, obviously. Would you take all three Oceans movies over all three Magic Mike movies?

No. Rank those six. Okay. Oceans 11. I mean, it's pretty even, honestly. It's Oceans, Magic Mike, Oceans 12, XXL. I haven't seen 13 in a long time, so I don't know where 13 versus Last Dance would go for me.

Should we do Oceans 13 on the rewatchables? Sure. But Bill doesn't like the Ocean's movies. As I recall, we did 12 without Bill. We did. We did 11 without Bill. That was you, me, Chris, and Juliet. What a time.

I think that's the only time the four of us have been on a podcast together. Isn't that remarkable? Yes. Yeah. It was really fun. That was a fun podcast. But I mean, the real shocker there is that Bill doesn't like Oceans 11 and 12, but whatever. How do I segue to The Red Shoes?

Speaking of films about pain and agony and beauty and the collision of art and your personal life. The Red Shoes also would be a magnificent pairing with Magic Mike or any of the other films we're talking about here. Maybe not White Nights. It's on Tubi right now, White Nights. Just like that's, that's, it is like a Tubi movie.

I mean, no disrespect to Tubi. Tubi is crushing. The Right Shoes is, you know, Powell and Pressburger masterpiece. One of the most important

movies ever made about a, a ballerina who is forced to choose between her art and her love and the like phantasmagoric consequences of that decision this movie is gorgeous to look at um as are all powell and

pressburger movies but just like wildly tragic and actually ultimately quite violent um especially for its time it was made in 1948 this is a massive influence on martin scorsese if you've ever heard him talk about films that's certainly how I became aware of the movie. And also features, you know, these long extended sequences of ballet photographed gorgeously in these like bursting red and blue pastel colors. Really just an amazingly gorgeous movie.

Very sad movie. And it's definitely a metaphor for me making this pod. You know, like I really have to just choose between art and commerce. movie very sad movie um and it's a definitely a metaphor for me making this pod you know like i really have to just choose between art and commerce that's really the challenge with this world my number one is about a ballerina who does not have to choose between her art and her love she can have it all at the american ballet academy which is made up my number one i i mean are you guys ready for this is this movie good this is one of the best movies ever seen i watched it again last night and like i basically did all of this so i could put center stage okay directed by nicholas heitner at number one um because it

was really important to me in high school and in college and you know ever since but i hadn't I hadn't seen it in a while and I thought it would be a little bit of a joke. And then I started watching it last night. Stayed up way too late. Couldn't finish it. I used my child's nap time this morning to finish watching Center Stage because I just had to get to the end, you know? There are threes and fours of the Dob Mob that are vibrating with excitement that you're talking about this movie. Like, the people that know, know though,

this is so important. So this is a movie starring real ballet dancers who sort of, who can't really act and then also Zoe Saldana. I was just going to say, no disrespect to Amanda Schull,

but it holds me back in this movie a little bit. It's okay. She's a wonderful dancer. And it's when she finally makes it to the showcase, you know, and she stays on her leg through the end and it's really beautiful. And then she does, she goes with Cooper to the company, but she doesn't, she asked Charlie for a date to the party. Like it all works out. She went on to have a long career as an actress. Which I don't know that you would have predicted based on this.

But that's okay. I think that this is a movie about a ballet school and a bunch of young kids who are, like, on the last year. And it's like, will they make it to become professional dancers? Or, like, will they get, you know, tossed out? And it's a Juilliard-esque school. And because it is a lot of young very talented dancers the dancing is really electric and then i think it does that competitive gnarly dance culture without being like actually uh totally depressing like every movie that you put on your list it's

true you know it's like so you know there's the. It's true. You know, it's like, so, you know, there's the girl with the eating disorder and then there's the girl who gets kicked out because she doesn't have the right body type. And, you know, the Jodi Sawyer is the name of the, which is hilarious. And Jodi doesn't have good feed. And, you know, like everyone's going through

whatever they're going through. But at the end, they just all love to dance and they get to dance on stage. I want to make a movie like that about the 2019 Jets. Okay. But instead of Bad Feet, it's Sam Darnold's Bad Face. Do you know about that? That a scout once said that Sam Darnold would never be a great quarterback. Oh, because he had a bad face?

Because he had a bad face. But did that work out for the Jets? It did not. Yeah. He did have a bad face and a bad arm and a bad body and a bad stat line and a bad career I

center stage is electric I'll have to revisit the film I seem to recall watching the movie and thinking these people can't act they definitely can't aside from Peter Gallagher

who shows up in the movie oh that's right and then Peter Gallagher is like essential as the artistic director of the company who you know says cruel things

to everyone and eviscerates them in really iconic ways it's wonderful zoe saldana finds herself back at the bar you know yeah that's it's always there waiting for her what's better her performance in that film or her work as gamora in the marvel absolutely her work in center stage she's wonderful what about as nateri in the avatar films she's i have sat through all of those movies and will without being too angry because we got center stage so that's okay what about her work as action heroine in colombiana she's very good in this okay uh my number one movie is all that jazz which is like not even

really a dance movie and is in fact just this like insane autobiographical tale like imagine if you made a movie about yourself going through suicidal depression and psychosis and cheating on all of your partners okay that's what bob fossey who is one of the most legendary filmmakers and choreographers in broadway and movie history made i just like in the final third of his life cast uh roy scheider to play himself to style almost exactly after himself with the most thinly veiled autobiographical story ever made a kind of fantasia of depression it does feature some amazing dance sequences the movie opens as in as thrilling a way as any movie has ever opened with fossy sort of like getting ready for the day almost like shooting heroin

into his day and then hard cuts to him in front of hundreds of dancers on stage preparing for a show. And you see that this is his life, that he has to herd these cats and that it is driving him absolutely crazy, but it also makes him understand the world. And then it closes with this all-time dance number with Scheider and Jessica Lange and Ben Vereen. And it's like one of the great Ben Vereen dance performances of all time. There's sequences crushed in between all the snorting and shooting and fucking and all the stuff that, you know, define Fosse's life and his art and his angst. But it's just a thrilling movie. Pretty much like any Bob Fosse movie that isn't star 80 would fit, I think, in this category.

But it's one of my favorites. I know it's one of CR's favorites, too. We've talked about it many times over the years. As I look down your list, I'm like, where's Suspiria? Where's Black Swan? I don't, I'm okay with those. I get it. Did you watch Luca Guadagnino's Suspiria?

No, but I do like Dakota Johnson. Can I tell you something about it? Yeah. It's so gross. Right. That's why I didn't see it. I don't need the body horror. But what about the fact that Mia Goth is in it?

I know that you feel really strongly connected to her. And I'm happy for you. I do. I do. Yeah. She's quite good. When I watch a dance movie, it's because I like watching people dance. So that's what I'm looking for.

Couldn't be me. Anything else you want to say? Was this fun? I had a great time. Okay, that's good. Did you not have a good time? No, I did. You didn't like it?

I did. Yeah. No, I did. I think these lists are insane. I thought about texting you that I was going to do this and then I was like, no, I'm just doing it on the podcast.

I respect it. I mean, you know, I'm sure people will have a lot of other examples of great dance sequences that they love that we didn't cite here. Strictly Ballroom, Baz Luhrmann's debut. Do you remember that movie? Yeah, I do like it. There's something about, I never responded to ballroom dancing in the same way. I don't know. At some point, I am just looking for the caliber of dancing but you know what part I really liked in in Magic Mike

was the the very brief moment of Suavemente Suavemente was so good I know but and I thought it was gonna be

the finale after all and then it wasn't and I was disappointed how did you feel about I'm just gonna spoil it so if you don't wanna hear this very minor minor minor spoiler

about Magic Mike's Last Dance you can tune out right now cause we're just about wrapping up. But closing your film with Usher's love in this club was a choice. I was an interesting choice. Great song. Great song. I was working at Vibe when that song came out.

And I was like, wow, this is the most important song ever recorded. This might change popular music. I thought that was really funny. It was really good. I also, one note that I have about Magic Mike is that non-dance sequence music has not aged terribly well. In the original Magic Mike.

In the original Magic Mike, yeah. So I like that they upgraded it a bit. I love love love that really weird win-win song that's in the trailer that is also set

during the sorority house dance but it is such like an artifact of 2011 like gutter punk electro music that was weirdly popular for five minutes

that makes it more of a time capsule but I hear what you're saying yeah anyhow can I say something quickly about Love in this Club yes

I feel like it's off the table for at least 10 years in movies because of the hustlers scene I don't remember it I do think about hustlers for you don't when usher comes out oh right of course yeah oh I forgot yeah that's tough you think Soderbergh saw hustlers he probably did right yeah hustlers was good there's not enough dancing I that was also part of my critique though I still am outraged on Jennifer Lopez's behalf

I think it should have been only Fiona Apple songs used in Hustlers that's one of my opinions Sleep to Dream Hot Knife what else could we have gotten in there

Parting Gift do you know Fiona Apple that's like my favorite artist of all time I do know that yeah more of her songs should be in films okay do you know if you know fiona apple that's like my favorite artist of all time i do know that yeah yeah more of her songs should be in films okay do you do you not agree what there was a good fiona q was it now i can't remember this doesn't happen very often i know but now this podcast has devolved but it was really good recent maybe it was a tv show um maybe we'll be able to talk about fiona no it's probably before before Fiona Apple's time when we do the mega movie draft

we have a movie draft coming next week how do you feel about it I should probably google what movies came out this year it's a good year though right

it's 1993 yeah special guests Rob Mahoney and Van Lathan pretty excited all are going to be in studio

how do you think they're going to do about what will they do with their burgeoning friendship then thrown into a competitive environment? That's why I wanted them to join.

I know. It's really beautiful. Anytime I've had Rob and Van on the show together, they have a real kind of Sean and Amanda vibe, if I'm being honest. Yeah. And I really like it. And I'd like to exploit it and see what CR puts in the mix

with his little condiments of craziness. Thanks to Bobby Wagner, our producer on this podcast, as always. And like I said, we'll see you next week when we draft from 1993.