The Big Picture - Making ‘Hobbs and Shaw’ the Action Movie Event of the Summer, With David Leitch | Interview

Episode Date: August 2, 2019

‘Hobbs and Shaw’ director David Leitch joins to talk about the challenges of adapting a successful franchise, his work on 'John Wick,' and the state of the action-comedy genre. Host: Sean Fennessey Guest: David Leitch Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelley, and welcome to The Ringer Podcast Network. Up on our site, The Ringer is breaking down the 40 best singles and albums from 1999, covering Britney Spears, The Backstreet Boys, Mariah Carey, and tons more. And to accompany that piece, we filmed our staffers discussing what they agreed and disagreed with from the article, and debated what should have won. You can read the piece on TheRinger.com and watch the video at youtube.com slash TheRinger. Digging in and finding the human story, I'm not too concerned yet about the bells and whistles of the action because that's sort of my thing, but it's like really what is the human story

and how are we going to love these characters and relate to them for two hours? I'm Sean Fennessey, editor-in-chief of The Ringer, and this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about The Fast and the Furious presents Colin Hobbs and Shaw. That's right, Hobbs and Shaw is upon us. I'm very excited to have a conversation with the film's director, David Leitch, today. David Leitch has made a couple of really important movies over the last couple of years, chief among them, John Wick. If you're a listener of this show, you know that I had the director of John Wick 2 and John Wick 3, Chad Stahelski, on this show earlier this summer,

and he and David Leitch collaborated together to make John Wick 1. The tricky thing about that is, David Leitch did not get credit as the director on that movie. So I had an interesting conversation with David about making Hobbs and Shaw, making movies like Atomic Blonde and Deadpool 2, and also about that John Wick situation, which is kind of a fascinating little wrinkle in the history of how things are organized in Hollywood. So if you like The Fast and the Furious, and you like Hobbs and Shaw,

stick around for this conversation with David Leitch. Delighted to be joined by director David Leitch. David, thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. David, I was at the premiere of Hobbs and Shaw on Saturday and you spoke before the premiere. Yes. And you made a pointed comment about the Academy recognizing stunt work. Yes. And I was fascinated by that. I write and talk about the Oscars all the time. And obviously the films that you've worked on over your years in the business have always been very stunt heavy. You were a stunt man for a period of time. That is true. What compelled you to make that comment at that time at the premiere? Well, I think we were sitting there in the Adobe Theater,

and this movie in particular, for at least my directing career, had more stunt people on it than ever, and probably as many stunt people as any action movie has ever had. Do you have a number on that? I don't, and I should get that number and maybe we'll, we can get it to you guys. But I, it, it was a great sort of time for me to reconnect with the stunt community. My old friends I had, when we shot in Hawaii, I had at least 45 guys that were either part of the 8711 team or guys that I came up with in the business that are now like rockstar drivers and stunt coordinators in their own right. And it was a big stunt reunion.

Going back to the Oscars, it's, so you're sitting there on the Dobie stage and you're like, this is where they celebrate. This is where the industry celebrates. And I think it's always been a little disheartening to myself and fellow stunt performers when it's a night of celebration of cinema and the hard work of all these departments, you know, you know, hair, makeup, costume, you know, production design, visual effects, and that yet the stunt performers are always left out and the stunt coordinators are left out and the second unit directors are left out and the choreographers are left out. And there's a whole section of the industry, whether it's a comedy or an action movie or even a drama or a thriller or a horror movie or a period piece that's really important social commentary, you need stunts.

You need stunts. You need stunts. And the stunt people, they are sort of the engine of the action in the industry. And it's just to not be able to celebrate on that night with your peers has always been a bummer. And I'm not quite sure why it's gone down this way for so long that the stunt performers have been sort of pushed aside by the Academy. But I'm hoping that it changes. And I think it's time for a change. And I feel like I have a platform now as a director. I'm making big movies. And Chad, my partner, he's making big movies. And look, we're not going to be quiet about it. We're going to speak up about it. Chad was here a couple of weeks ago talking about John Wick 3 and great conversation with him. Very

intense fellow. He was really good at describing really the early stages of his career, how he got interested in the business and then how he put himself in the business. I'm very curious for you too, because you've had a lot of different kinds of jobs. You mentioned second unit director. I know that's something you did a lot of. I'm curious about that, but specifically, like when did you get interested in being a part of making movies? Well, I mean, Chad and I are, we're super connected from the beginning. So I, you know, Chad was, um, we were both in martial arts. We were competing in martial arts around the country. And, um, you know, we, I was actually flying to LA to train at this,

uh, martial arts Academy called the Inosano Academy. Dan Inosano is, um, um, Bruce Lee's protege and training partner for years. And so he's kind of, he created a Mecca of, um, uh, martial arts where a lot of people came that were martial art nuts. And Chad was one of those martial art nuts. So when I would travel to LA in the summer to train, I hooked up with Chad. And he had mentioned to me, hey, you know, there are these guys that are actually doing stunts. You know, they're using all this martial art knowledge, which most of it has no purpose because you can't really jump, spin, hook, kick a guy in the face. It doesn't work. Not a lot of practical application.

Not a lot of practical application. But they were using it for other things. And so after college and competing in martial arts, I came to LA and I hooked up with Chad and a couple other of those stunt performers I mentioned earlier. And we all had a core group of guys and we would get together every day for years. I'd say four or five years straight of training, martial arts in the morning, gymnastics in the afternoon, weight training, middle of the day. And we kind of lived this sort of like surfer, but like stunt guy lifestyle where it was all we did, all we cared about was training. In the meantime, we were looking for opportunities to get into the business and we were but we knew um chad and i had this motto because chad and i became pretty close during that time and

we had this motto we were in a mexican restaurant one night and uh this woman sitting behind us was sort of preaching the gospel to her daughter and she's like you know you just need to stay in school preparation plus opportunity equals miracles. Preparation plus opportunity equals miracles. So Chad and I would always say that when we were just trying to get in the stunt business as a joke, like, but we were just training and we loved martial arts and we love gymnastics and we love Jackie Chan. It was like, how do we make a living out of this? And getting some opportunities early in the business and television, working on like Buffy the Vampire Slayer or working on Baywatch, those types of things. And then kind of get into the business. And it is like the circus in a sense, like we came in as specialists

in martial arts and there was a time when people needed it, but then you learn the rest of the business from mentors inside who sort of pull the curtain or like magic is the same. Like these are all the gags. Here's how we do the gags. And you learn from those mentors. So when you were in that phase, was you, was your goal to double for Van Damme or was your goal to be the director of Hobbs and Shaw? Mike, I don't think I didn't have the, the goal to be the director of Hobbs and Shaw at that time. I just knew I loved being involved in this movie making. I may have had the goal of trying to double Vondam, but I didn't even have that goal. Just getting into the business, I was just ecstatic to be

a, you know, ND stunt guy number two getting kicked in the face. Like I was like, this is the best thing ever and it is it is such a fun job and uh it's it's unbelievable like that experience like to just be on a movie set watch you know being in sort of the brotherhood of your stunt friends and creating action and like doing things that are physical when you're an athlete. It's like, you know, something out of a 12-year-old boy's dream, really. What was your, can you remember your sort of your biggest break where you felt like, wow, I'm in this, I'm in this business and I'm doing this for money?

Yeah. There was my biggest break, I think, that sort of put me, not on the map in terms of the stunt community, but I was offered an opportunity to double for Brad Pitt on Fight Club. That's a cool job. It was a great job. And funny enough, there was very little stunts on Fight Club. For a movie called Fight Club, I basically did like a footfall on a pavement and did some glorified photo double work, climbing over a fence or something. But what we did do is we actually trained Ed Norton and Brad, you know, just in sort of basic fist fighting because that was what David Fincher wanted.

But that experience, getting that opportunity to double him on that movie and then watching, you know, having that access to directors and stunt coordinators and watching how this all unfolds at that level. Then I was so hooked and I loved it. And there was no turning back for me. Like I was going to be the best stunt performer I could be and just continued to get involved in movies in any way I could. It was one of the moments where I was like, it got really cool. And I didn't stop working at that point. I think I did a good job. I got known as having a great work ethic.

I got known for fight scenes and choreography and being a fight stunt double and an action double and a good job. I got known as having a great work ethic. I got known for fight scenes and choreography and being a fight stunt double and an action double and a physical double, not so much a driving double. But I never stopped working at that point. I was like, until here. Did watching someone like Fincher in action make you want to be a director more, or was it intimidating in some way? More. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I think that I've been fortunate to be in that position as a stunt performer to observe these guys from like standing behind the chair for the whole day, you know, made me want to do it more. And whether I don't know how that came to be for me. I just know, and I had an eclectic sort of upbringing with arts and sports and music and things in my life in high school. And so I guess being the director, it kind of seemed like, wow, they got to know a little bit about everything. And I kind of fancied myself as that guy who kind of knows a little bit about everything and, um, in the art on the art side. And so it seemed like a natural thing that I'm like, not that I could do that, but I like would like to do that.

When did you officially arrive at the conclusion that you were going to do it? Wow. Chad and myself started to move into like stunt coordinating and fight choreography. And we were choreographing and shooting our own sort of stunt viz, we would call it. So we would shoot the fights out, cut them and edit them and present them to the director and often to the studio and producers. And they go, well, why don't we just shoot it like that? You know, we do it on video. And that was, no one was doing that at that time. Now it's very commonplace that people say stunt viz, you know, show us the stunt viz. What were some of the projects that one was doing that at that time. Now it's very commonplace. They, people say stunt viz,

you know, show us the stunt viz. What were some of the projects that you were doing that for? Wow. We were doing it early on for, um, television stuff. Uh,

wow. Uh, serenity, which is, uh, if you're a Sweden, just Sweden, that was like,

that was our sort of big, like pioneering into it. And we shot a lot of the stunt viz, Sweden, that was like, that was our sort of big, like pioneering into it. And we shot a lot of the stunt biz for that, that movie and, um, or fight visits, we called it. And that sort of became like jumping off. And then from there on, it was like everything from 300 to, I mean, open up the credit list. I mean, it became our thing. Um, and now, and like I said, I mean, that's sort of now industry standard,

but no one was doing it at that time. I think we got noticed as like, wow, they know where to put the camera. Can you start to direct some second units? And again, you usually start at television, and then it works into film a little bit. And we did like, think Street Fighter but the big turning the page for second unit was Ninja Assassin and that was because the Wachowskis we had sort of mentored on there are both of us had mentored under them the longest and had done a lot of movies with them

and they gave us this opportunity to direct a big second unit on that. It was like a 35, 40 day shoot, which is massive and it's all fights. And so- Help listeners understand what second unit is. What does that mean? Because I feel like people watch movies and they think that there's one guy

and he tells everybody what to do all the time. And that's obviously not how making movies works. Right. There is a, yeah, the director is like, obviously running the main unit with all the time and that's obviously not how making movies works right there is a um yeah the director is like obviously running the main unit with all the actors the second unit director is doing a couple different things i mean a second unit director is on a big movie that has um a massive amount of logistics and you can't stay at a location long you can um a second unit director may pick up establishing shots or might, um, work with just the vehicles

and get the shots of the cars pulling up, but then the director will shoot the actors. It's really there. Um, a second unit director is given the pieces of the thing that aren't necessarily relative to actors performances when needed per logistics. The other type of second unit directing is there are specialists like Chad and myself or Simon Crane or Darren Prescott. They are, you know, we direct action sequences from A to B. Dan Bradley, for example, on the Bourne movies, designs and directs the action of a movie. So in Hong Kong cinema, they had called those people the action of a movie. So in Hong Kong cinema,

they had called those people the action directors and Western cinema, we call them second unit directors. But like on a big James Bond movie, those big action sequences are generally directed by a second unit director, an action director. And that's the kind of stuff that Chad and I started to get into. Was the intention there always to ultimately have a John Wick to call your own?

To say, we're going to do this for a period of time. We'll learn all the ins and outs of doing second unit in this way and then elevate? I mean, I quickly wanted to make that jump to first unit director and to really do it. We had, I think Chad and i probably had different ambitions there and like chad's really was really just loved shooting action and was happy where we were and um but i think that i was a little bit more like trying to push the envelope and like we can do this i mean a lot of uh stunt coordinators turned second unit directors tried to make the jump, and they failed before us. There were a lot of failures at it. And I don't want to name names because it's not to make a good movie.

It's hard. But we had lightning in a bottle with John Wick, and we're grateful for it. But yeah, it's always hard to push. In the industry, it's always hard to push up and out of your box. I don't know. We, I was pretty quickly said, I think we should,

I mean, we're already directing half the movie, you know, let's direct the other half, the story of John wick. It's actually interesting. And I don't, I don't know exactly how Chad remembers it.

And, you know, I'm sure it's a, it'd be a conversation if we're all sitting here together, but we had, um, a manager at the time, Kelly McCormick, who is my wife and also now a creative producer for me. And actually, she produces material herself, and she's incredible. She's here with us today. Yeah, she's right here.

She's standing right there behind the thing. But she was representing Chad and I, and we had taken meetings to be directors together, and we were going to co-direct. But the John Wick script came across the table as something for us to second unit director, stunt coordinate. And when we knew that we found out that Keanu was attached, and it was with a company that Kelly had already introduced us to, there were a lot of common threads. And I, you know, went to Chad and I said we should, you know, and after conversations with Kelly, it's like we should go for this. Like it's a small enough movie that we really can't second unit direct it because it's not, it's below us. But as a first unit, it's a step up. And it's a huge step up, and it's a challenge. We should go for it.

And so we reached out to Keanu and said, you know, we would like to pitch as the directors. And he was very excited. We put together a package, you know, pitch materials with Kelly, Chad, and myself. And we got ready to pitch Lionsgate. And we went in and pitched Lionsgate. And they were happy and excited. And they thought it was a really interesting idea. And that was actually Lionsgate International at the time. So they took it to market and they sold foreign as they do on these foreign sales job movies and got the money back and we made the movie for

whatever we made it for, but it was 28 million i think but you don't have an official director credit on this film no even though you and chad collaborated equally to make the movie yeah so i was wondering going forward after the success of that movie and it obviously had pretty good box office success and then incredible word of mouth right and then a huge kind of vod and dvd hit and i've talked to people at Lionsgate about this. They obviously love John Wick. Yeah. But was it, was there any challenge for you to say like, I was also the guy who did this, or is it because you're so well-known in the business and you have this huge track record? Becoming the person who makes Atomic Blonde was not very challenging for you individually. I wouldn't say it wasn't challenging. I mean, I have good representation behind me. I mean,

Kelly and my agents, and I think everybody was like trying to get the wording out that message out there that the DGA had made a mess up and that, you know, we had agreed and I'll, I'll be upfront with the DGA and look, we, Chad and I had the meeting before John Wick and they said, go forth and make your movie together. You guys are both DGA members for a long time and great standing. It's not traditional, but go forth. We can't give you the green light to do it. And then save all the call sheets and prove that you did it together and then come back and we'll give you the rubber stamp. And we did that. And they had DGA representatives come to set and they had people observing us directing together the whole

time. And then we went back to the board and we presented the case that we directed together. And they said, yeah, but we, we know you did, but we can't allow it because it's not precedent. And we shouldn't have given you the permission in the first place. And we, you know, it was never on paper. And then there was a lot of weird conspiracy crap of like redacted documents and like who said what and what the vote was and all this crap and at some point it was like hire attorneys or let it go and I just I have never succeeded in my life by looking backwards I just kind of look forwards and it's like I did it everyone in the industry knows I did it we're like like, let's just, honestly, between Chad and I,

flip a coin and pick who gets the credit, really, at the end of the day. So it's one of those things that we're looking back on it now. It's like you guys are both making huge, successful films. But I'm not going to say that it's not a little bittersweet, especially with the DGA, an institution that I worked my ass off for, paid dues into for years that couldn't protect me as a member or Chad. I mean, one of us had to decide to say, okay, I won't take the credit. I mean, it was just more like, no, they decided not to protect us. And we're members of a guild. What is a guild for?

That's all I'm saying. It was like a little bit like who are you protecting me against my partner who's like we sat next to each other the whole time and we there's blood on the pavement trying to get this movie made like who are you yeah like i thought you know you're supposed to protect me like i'm i'm the member of the union it's a very bureaucratic aspect to an artistic business which I think a lot of people find confusing I was very kind of curious to talk to you about it because I have always found it confusing it's very confusing and but then in the so then the spirit of moving forward um the Atomic Blonde script which was actually called The Coldest City Kelly was attached as producer and she had been shepherding that for a long time.

And she presented me with the material and Chad and we, Chad and I both circled it for a while and we were going to co-direct it. Um, at, there was a moment in time where we pitched, um, Charlize together. And then we, you know, Chad decided he wanted to stay on the John Wick train and do John Wick 2. And I felt I didn't want to do John Wick 2 because I didn't have a script yet. But I really had a vision for the coldest city. And it was very different than what was on the page.

So I just took a run at it creatively. I mean, through the prodding of Kelly, it was like, how do I make this more of a world? How do I make this more sexy? How do I infuse it with the music sensibility that I love to do? And so I took a stab at the script and put together a presentation and went back to Kelly and Charlize and pitched it again, solo directing. When it was more of Atomic Blonde at that point,

it was like neon noir, not fedora trench coat noir. And I think everyone was really excited about, oh my God, this is now kind of commercial. It's not Tinker Taylor. It's like something else. And that's what they wanted. So. Let me ask you one more thing about that. Were you and Chad originally planning to be a team going forward? And then you decided because you had different interests that you were going to do separate projects or was there no kind of conversation about sort of long-term execution no i don't think we we knew we were at some point go separate roads and it was um but always keep the banner of 87 11 and the core of like the stunt world and the fight stuff and the

choreography is part of our core um you saw it in our second unit life. We did all these Wachowski movies together as second unit directors, and then we started to just do our own second unit jobs because there's just so much work coming in. And it felt like the same thing after John Wick. It was great to have the support of your brother and your co-filmmaker on John Wick your first time out but it was really time we do have a lot of different sensibilities

when we're together they enhance each other and I think when they're apart that you get to see our full sort of like you know freak flags fly I guess do you think when you gave him a shout out at the Hobbs premiere I was like I wonder if they would ever do something together again like that I'll never say never like I mean

I love working with Chad it's been 20 plus years and we again like we still talk about it there maybe is the project where we come back in and do something together I think

because of the DGA and the bitterness it would probably have to be in a producerial director capacity, but it has the full energy of us and creatively. And I don't know how that works or what project it is, but for sure that could be fun. I was at the premiere also of Atomic Blonde, which was you were? Which was like a rock concert. And I love that movie. Thank you. I think that's such a cool, original, slick, in a good way movie.

It just looks great. And it moves great. It's got incredible set pieces. But the story works really well. I was kind of surprised. Because I think because of some of the confusion I think people had about the Wick thing and the credit. And it was sort of like, oh, this is this guy stepping out and doing his thing. Right.

What was different doing that by yourself? Did you feel like you had more freedom to experiment and try new things? Yeah, it is. Like, I think when you're in any sort of partnership in life, that's just another compromise. And that doesn't mean that it doesn't make you better or worse. I think when you're in any sort of partnership in life, it's just another compromise. And that doesn't mean that it doesn't make you better or worse. It just means that now there's another sort of wall in the box that's containing you as an artist. I think Atomic is way more of me.

And if I had made that movie with Chad, it would be something else. And it would be equally as good and compelling, but just just different were there kinds of movies you wanted to make like no having such a keen sense of sub-genre like what are your movies you know what are the things that you love that you aspire to that inspire you right wow I mean, I have a nostalgic sensibility, and I do like to dabble in things that sort of ring that nostalgic bell, which is why Atomic Blonde is so compelling to me. I do like comedy, and I think you can see the comedy in John Wick, the dry humor that we put in the first one, obviously Deadpool 2, when that opportunity came about, I was, you know, nervous, but ecstatic, you know, because I'm, I'm a huge fan of that type of humor and, and all humor. Like, um, so I think what's really fortunate for me and what's great is that I've been able to expand. Like I'm not just the genre action guy now i've been able to do a massive uh franchise

a beloved franchise comedy and deliver um and then we're doing something that's more like truly in my dna hobs and shaw which is like buddy comedy action it's like you couldn't pick something that's more what i grew up with and what i you know i should do it's that it's like you couldn't pick something that's more what I grew up with and what I you know I should do it's that it's pretty much

landing all cylinders in my sensibilities so I was gonna ask you about that because some recent action comedies

have been released and they have not worked and I feel like they have been maybe comedy first action second and they're they're citing Lethal Weapon,

but maybe they're not living up to the spirit of something like that. Hobbs & Shaw, when I saw it, I was surprised by how comedy forward it was. It is like a true blue comedy with crazy set pieces in the middle of it and a lot of chemistry-bound banter between the two stars and all the surrounding characters. Was that something that you guys always, an approach you always knew you wanted to take to it or did that evolve as you started putting the project together it was uh again like i have to give kelly the props for figuring this one out

and like i think a lot of our representation for a moment was like oh he'll never want to do a fast movie but the fact that it was hobbs and shaw and it was those two characters and that the way that they interact in the fast movies she went out and sort of found the script and her and um Chris Morgan made sure that we got it and we read it and there was this sort of like throwback 80s sensibility to it um but being said that being said it like I wanted it to be comedy forward I wanted it to be big summer entertaining I think you need both I think um I didn I wanted it to be comedy forward. I wanted it to be big summer entertaining. I think you need both. I think I didn't want it to be as – I wanted it to have the earnestness of a fast, and it does.

I think we have like real – these guys are going through these reconnections of their family, and it's really heartfelt, and those emotional stakes for those characters are real. But I also wanted to make sure that we're constantly having fun, and we're on this roller coaster, and we're not taking it too seriously. The only two things I wanted to take seriously were the fun and the human stakes for the emotional stakes of the family. Action comedies don't succeed and they're failing

nowadays, I think, because they're not addressing the real themes. They're not addressing the real humanity. There's just like gags, gags, gags, gags. And that's funny, but you're not learning anything. Like what's the moral lesson? I think in Hobbs and Shaw, there's kind of two ideas going on. One is you have these two polar opposite characters. And it's like they have to come together to save the world. And it's a big question. Can they do it? And even Brixton in that interrogation scene, you see he's like,

fate of the world is in your hands and you guys can't get along. And I think it's a bigger question for all of us. And so you can watch this, whatever side of the fence you're on. It's like if there's a chance to save the world, you know, it shouldn't. And obviously it shouldn't take these global stakes to have it happen. But I'm asking that question to the audience and to the world. Like, can you reconcile your differences so we can get together and get on with saving the world? Whether you're a Hobbs or a Shaw.

Whether you're a Hobbs or a Shaw. I think the fast brand definitely is defined by crazy shit. Yes. It's certainly the relationships and the family first element. But what's that challenge like to know that you have to top something that is known for topping itself repeatedly? Right. It's tough.

I mean, going into the Deadpool franchise, it was sort of the same way. Like it was known for its ridiculousness. It's sort of like it's blue humor. It's sort of subversive. Like, how can you be more subversive? How can you be more blue? Like, how can you push the boundaries? We found a way to do it and deliver for the audience. It felt like the same sort of challenge with Hobbs and Shaw. It was clear to us from the studio and from marketing and from the creatives at the studio, the parameters, like we want a David Leitch movie and we want you to do your thing. But these are some things that we need.

And it's like people love those bombastic set pieces. So shoot for the moon. And like, you know, you're going to want the you're going to want some grounded action that you're known for but don't be afraid to lean into the visual effects because we like that too and so they um they they sort of laid it out that like we want the movie you want to make but we also want you to you know push the limits of the fast world and like make it crazy like a fast movie what was the most challenging part of it for you because you can you can do a hand-to-hand fight sequence better than anybody on earth literally thank you

but but but maybe when nine cars are battling a helicopter like that's a different kind of a challenge you know it is i think all honestly the the logistics of the stunts were, they're all hard, and they're all, but they were all within my bandwidth as shooting second unit for years and years and years. I think the hardest thing about this movie was the time frame. We, you know, we started prepping this movie when we were still in post on Deadpool 2, and to take a job like that is kind of crazy already. And then designing the sequences and getting the logistics up and building the rigs and making the changes. And oh my God, we finished the movie. It's a 96-day shoot or whatever it is at the end of the day. And then it's like, oh, now we only have five months for post.

And there's like 1 now we only have five months for post and there's like 1600 visual effect shots and like it just never the train never stopped and you didn't have a chance to catch your breath and there wasn't a lot of time to sit back and reflect you're just like going and that was really hard so if i could do another movie this size again i would hope that we'd have a little more uh post and a little more prep and have some reflection. But instead it was Fast and Furious. It just was like, it's in the title. We're making it. Yes, we're making it. What was the best part about doing it? What do you like the most about making a movie this big?

It's really fun to play with all the toys. And it was outside of like, I mean, to be honest, like outside of working with all my key creative people and them having the resources that they want, like Jonathan Sella, cinematographer, who I did, I've done all my movies with. David Schooneman, who production designed Atomic Blonde, Deadpool 2, and now this. Dan Glass, prolific visual effects supervisor with with us on john our deadpool 2 and this like these are like members of my family now like they're like some of my closest friends and we get to go out and play with these toys but i was sitting there in hawaii and i was just looking at like all the camera equipment we had and all the gear and i have fred north amazing prolific helicopter pilot flying around a Black Hawk.

We're doing air-to-air stuff while we got a technical crane on the ground and while we have the edge arm driving in. It's like I have like six cameras and all of them have Libra heads on them. I'm like, this is bananas. But the movie of this scope needs it. So to have all those bells and whistles, it's kind of fun to sit back and go, I'll never have these resources again.

Maybe I will, but it was pretty amazing. It seems like your career, I don't mean to put any pressure on you, but it's basically just up, up, up, up, up, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger. Your four films are all bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger. So now, regardless of whatever happens with Hobbs and Shaw, even if it's the biggest hit in the history of movies,

which maybe it will be, I wish you luck. Is there a part of you that wants to go back to the ground and do something smaller, or do you feel that you have to keep making a bigger and bigger thing? It's a good question. I mean, I don't think I need to make a bigger thing, but I think, and there's two thoughts, and I'm on the fence.

I don't think I need to make a bigger movie, but there are very few directors that are in this place and time that get called to make these big tentpole movies, and they're making smaller, they're making less of them. The studio's making less of them. So it's really an honor and a privilege to be here. And I don't want to take that for granted. And I think if a movie that speaks to me that comes up that's in this sort of space and size and scope, yeah, I'll't say it's probably still the best film experience of my life to have that creative freedom at that budget and just to do something that's special and artistic and provocative and like such a cool movie and just, you know, flip the world on its head and people go, what the fuck is that? That's. I want to do that, too. So I think, you know, I got to find the window to do both. And I don't want to lose this opportunity and where I'm at because it's a privilege. But I also, as an artist, want to experiment and do fun things that I think people will love as well.

And there's a lot of ideas rolling around. So before you finished Deadpool 2, you had picked Hobbs and Shaw. Have you picked something that comes next? No, but we have a lot of projects that are, um, were attached to encircling. I know you, I'm sure there's the news on the division. And so that's in the script writing phase and, um, really excited about that property. And like, and not only the world's, the world is really, really cool, but sort of the, the idea that every, this group of every man, women can band together to save the world and, uh, and to restart humanity is kind of like a cool,

inspiring message inside of like a crazy action. I don't know if there's ever been a truly great version of a movie like that too, which is a cool challenge of that idea. It's hard. And then it is, that is sort of the curse with the video game movies yeah and so you need to find again i think how i would approach it is like digging in and finding the human story i'm not i'm not too concerned yet about the bells and whistles of the action because that's sort of my thing but it's like really what is the human story and how are we going to love these characters and relate to them for two hours? The world itself, like the world in the game is so compelling. And I think we want to just lean into that world building that they have.

And like, how do we bring that to the big screen? That's, you know, that would be that challenge. But otherwise, there's other things we're circling. And I don't want to sit and name a bunch of it, but it's like, whatever. Pops up soon. No, I don't know. We'll see. I wish you luck.

David, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing that they've seen. What is the last great thing you've seen? I am a huge fan of Barry. Yeah. Yes. And so that television show has been sort of the idea. Because we were in post, I haven't had a chance to watch. I mean, I did watch. Kelly and I would watch Game of Thrones.

But Barry, because of its size, and it's sort of a perfect bite-sized morsel right before you go to bed. But it's... Has a little John Wick DNA. It does. Yeah, it has a little John Wick DNA. Obviously, the humor is spot on has a little bit of a deadpool vibe like true all the things that i love that just sort of like this dark comedy that's a little bit over the top and irreverent um but the key character is so um relatable and emotional and you connect with him and you feel his struggle and like

it's so well done like it's my it's my favorite show this year David thanks for doing this man thank you I forgot to mention the podcast I just wanted to plug our 8711 podcast and it's called 8711 podcast what we do is interview stunt performers and coordinators from all different generations and sit down with them and get their stories and their lives and their favorite stunt and their, you know, when they got hurt or brush with fame or all, any, anything we want to talk about, we sort of like propose it to them let me ask you about that do do stunt performers like talking about times when their life was in peril because i feel like our impulse is to be like tell me the worst thing that happened to you but that was the worst thing that

happened to you yeah you know you it can be a mixed bag i think you can have a perspective on it at times where it's like dodged a bullet there literally yeah dodged a bullet um and other times it's like i don't want to talk about it because maybe someone else was hurt and or um the consequences were so dire and it was so close you're just like yeah i don't want to really really relive that i made you know i was put in a position or I made a poor choice or whatever. I mean, honestly, like you can only rely on yourself at the end of the day. And like, um, but you are put in these positions with effects and even stunt rigors or whatever, like human error can come into play and,

or just pure fricking accidents can happen. It's crazy.