The Big Picture - May Movie Massacre: ‘IF,’ ‘Back to Black,’ and ‘Unfrosted’

Episode Date: May 21, 2024

Sean and Amanda are joined by Midnight Boy and resident hater Charles Holmes to discuss a trio of less-than-ideal movies out right now: John Krasinski’s semi-animated ‘IF’ (1:00), the Amy Winehouse biopic ‘Back to Black’ (45:00), and Jerry Seinfeld’s nightmarish directorial debut, ‘Unfrosted’ (1:07:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Charles Holmes Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, The Town, on the Ringer Podcast Network. My name's Matt Bellany. I'm founding partner at Puck and the writer of the What I'm Hearing newsletter. And with my show, The Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. Every week, we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about. We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight, which streamer is on the brink of collapse, and which executive is on the hot seat. Disney, Netflix, who's up, down,

and who will never eat lunch in this town again. Follow The Town on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit Superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessey.

I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about a May movie massacre. This weekend, tough one. Underperformance at the box office. Critical crucifixion of two new wide releases. We're not just talking about movies that are opening wide. We're also talking about movies on Netflix, which also kind of suck. And so if we're talking about movies that kind of suck, there's only one man to join us.

Woo! Hater-in-chief, the closer, Charles Holmes. What's up, Charles? Boo-boo! Can I test this out? Yeah. I think I'm looking for, I think the ringer where we got video, we're obviously on video.

I was thinking of a new kind of nickname, the most controversial cultural critic of this generation. What do we think? Can we redo that? Can you introduce me as that? I'm not going to retake the intro, but yes, we can call you that going forward. Can we do chyrons, Corey?

Do we have that technology just to have the most controversial cultural critic of his time? Just like lower third? Okay. Oh, hell yeah. When did your time start? When did the Chuck era begin was it when you started

at the ringer was it the day you were born oh yeah I came out of the womb like this now that I'm thinking about it but I do have a twin brother who is way worse oh interesting

who looks exactly like me a bigger hater oh he's like he'll listen to the midnight boys and he's like honestly you didn't go in fucking hard enough Charles

and I'm like man if you check Reddit or the Facebook group or any social media they would disagree you can't go in fucking hard enough, Charles. And I'm like, man, if you check Reddit or the Facebook group or any social media, they would disagree. You can't do that. You know, you got to live in your own world. Live in my freedom. Live in my freedom.

Yeah, of your standards. That's what they are. It's not hate, it's standards. You know, if I'm being honest, it's not that this is a trio of quite poor movies that we're going to be discussing on the pod today that Charles is here. Actually, months ago, I hit up Charles and I was like, hey, we definitely want to have you back on

soon. Here's a list of movies we're going to be talking about. Pick one. You picked Back to Black, which is the new Amy Winehouse biopic, which we'll get to in the second segment of this conversation. You're a former music critic. Are you still a music critic? How do you think of yourself? I mean, Drake and Kendrick dragged me back into the arena yeah like my i was just like guys i never want to talk about this again so technically as of two weeks ago still i read it i enjoyed it it was very smart yeah and then they really quickly what do you guys think of not like us they not like us they not like i mean were you crip walking i saw sean crip walking in you didn't i think the idea that that that song is a huge hit is fascinating yeah um bonkers and obviously i love kendrick i've always loved kendrick fascinated by kendrick's arc fascinated

by how just mad kendrick seems right now big Big mad. But I didn't see that coming. I'm much more interested, though, long term in what happens to Drake. That's the thing that I'm fascinated by. I'm just saying, number one song in the country being like, hey, the biggest pop star potentially ever. I think he's a pedophile. And then just people being like, we're singing this for weeks. Also, it's sort of a bop, you know? And we're just like, we're in dire need of bops in this

country right now like espresso is all we have you know what i'm saying i think no and don't no no no no don't excuse me my gift my like what i was gonna what is it my give a fuck is on vacation what is it my something it's good gen z. Gen Z mommy. Yeah. She has arrived. So we asked you to come on for Back to Black. Yes. And then it just so happened that Back to Black was going to be released the same weekend as If, the new John Krasinski children's vehicle. And I was like, do you want to talk about If? And then when it became clear that Back to Black wasn't very good, and then it certainly seemed like If wasn't going to be very good, I was like, let's just sprinkle a little bit of pop tart onto the end of this episode so we're gonna talk about

into the group chat being like we need to discuss unfrosted and within five minutes of watching it i was like we do well we do or we don't how did you feel about the addition of unfrosted to this discussion um it's i think it's good to look at all the poor choices being made everywhere. It's not just in children's entertainment. It's not just in the specialty music picked by box office. It's also on Netflix. Everyone is just grasping around in the dark for something and they don't always find it. It's weird that it's happening in May. That's the thing that I find odd. Now, obviously, we had strikes last year and that pushed a lot of release dates.

There wasn't as much production as you'd normally expect. But this is not a month typically full of fucking nightmares at the movie theaters. So it's kind of fascinating that it's happening at this moment. It's happening concurrent to the Cannes Film Festival, where it seems like there are a lot of big swings. And maybe not all of those big swings are landing how are you how are you feeling about this because here's the thing your people yeah the movie critics they're pocket watching coppola heavy and it's just i don't i'm not really fucking with it but how are you feeling because

it doesn't seem like it's going well well i mean we haven't seen the movie right okay so i mean and that's our main anxiety is that like we don't know when we'll get to see the movie because it still doesn't have a distributor so this might it might be months until y'all are like i finally get to see megalopolis i mean it could be years like you really don't know i mean maybe someone will hit me when it opens in in france next year or maybe i have to go to now that would be fun to go to france to see it after I mean maybe someone will hit me when it opens in France next year or maybe I have to go to now that would be fun to go to France to see it after skipping

the Cannes Film Festival. Here's the thing I've told Amanda this a couple times I just I fucked up so bad by not going to Cannes this year. We should have gone I don't know why

Can you look direct and say it to the camera? There we go. I'd like to apologize to myself because I owed it to myself. What about me? I apologize to Amanda Thank you. for not pushing us to go to the Cannes Film Festival. We could be in France right now. I owed it to myself. What about me? I apologize to Amanda for not pushing us to go to

the Cannes Film Festival. We could be in France right now. I know it because he like was not excited enough about it for me to make the push again to go to Cannes. It's my lifelong dream to go to Cannes. I didn't even think hard enough about it this year and then I see what is happening. It's like okay Megalopolis as you said people are pocket watching. They think it's ridiculous. There's live interactive experiences happening at the premiere. Yes. Coppola giving fascinating press conferences afterwards.

Missed that. Paul Schrader, my guy, is being incredibly mean and controversial about things all the time. Also could die at any moment. Still dropping Richard Gere movies.

Kevin Costner, openly weeping with nine beautiful women on his arm, premiering chapter one of Horizon. The most divorced man in America. Remarkable on his arm premiering chapter one of Horizon. The most divorced man in America. Remarkable divorced man energy. I support all of it. Love it. It seems like the smaller films are also incredibly chaotic and divisive. There was a lot

of talk last night about this movie, The Substance, which I talked about on our most anticipated movies episode, this Corley Fargiat body horror movie. All the men who saw it were like, this is the best movie I've ever seen. Feminist body horror masterpiece. And all the women were like, this is a piece of garbage that should be thrown in the trash. So I just,

I feel like I'm missing out on all this stuff. The Demi Moore press store Oscar campaign. I just, I really can't wait. It's going to be amazing. Anya Taylor-Joy looked like, she's just like, this movie destroyed me, but thank you for clapping.

Yes. Furiosa. Kinds of kindness. A lot of movies's just like, this movie destroyed me, but thank you for clapping. Yes. Furiosa. Kinds of kindness. A lot of movies that are like, damn, that was certainly a choice. All of the movies. That's how you define them. So we missed out on that. That was a big mistake.

Instead, we sat home and we watched Unfrosted like a couple of clowns. Right. And I feel, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Can you say maybe that movies were a mistake or are a mistake? Because after these three, I'm starting to feel that way. Well, the thing is, is that there is no boldness in any of these three movies. Like the Cannes films, clearly, decisions were made.

And people will have to live with those decisions for the rest of their lives. These movies, they don't, they feel, well, let's start with that. Decisions were made., they don't, they feel, well, let's start with it. Decisions were made. But I don't care. Well, at least in the case of If, written and directed by John Krasinski. Decisions were made. From the mind of John Krasinski. The imagination of John Krasinski.

Do I agree with the decisions? Well, okay. So let's just, we'll pull a step, take one step back. Yeah. If an original kids movie from... Is it? Well, it's an original story that he created from whole cloth, obviously inspired by a lot of things.

Back to Black, also in its way, original IP, of course, from the artist, but not a franchise entertainment. And Unfrosted, while it is deeply pre-branded in some problematic ways a new movie from frankly a legend of american comedy yes yeah in a style that used to be a very successful style of comedy at the movies so you know if you took your glasses off and you saw the blurry versions the outlines of these movies you think like pretty cool actually this is a lot of stuff that sometimes we complain we don't get and then i don't i don't know if i would go to cool but uh like even maybe you wouldn't write them off immediately before i put my contacts

in that's how i see the world every morning by the way um but it's people trying things listen people are always trying things okay let's Let's talk about the try of if. Because there's a lot of trying. Can we set the scene? Yes. Which is that we three saw If together at a 10.50 a.m. screening at the La Cunada Regal. My return to my beloved La Cunada. I actually like this movie theater.

Was it your first time there? This was my first time there. Yeah. They, you know, the recliner seats. I would say that even though Sean has identified this as a children's movie, we were by far the youngest people in the theater, which was notable because that is something that we can rarely say. I won't speak for Charles, but Sean and I are usually dragging up the median. Right. It was us and seven single ticket

serial murderers seated in dispersed areas because you I got there first and I was just like damn this is gonna be weird people like what's this 30 year old doing watching this children's movie at like 10 a.m in the morning and then it was just like a bunch of just like one ticket holders just started walking and I was like what the fuck is this going to be the biggest movie in America? Yeah. And it's not. And we all sat together pretty much in silence as the events unfolded before us. If I want to be generous, I understand what John Krasinski was trying to achieve here.

There is a certain kind of movie that is a combination of animation or creature effects with the real world that has a long lineage in Hollywood. And if you like, I don't know, Anchors Away. You love Anchors Away. Well, I like it when Jerry and Gene dance together. Yeah, I like Anchors Away as well, but I do, you're right.

You love Mary Poppins, you know? Yes. Are you comparing it to Mary Poppins you know yes are you comparing Mary Poppins I'm not he's making and you've identified the two scenes in those movies that my two-year-old son gravitates towards so I do I see your point yes and I mean this is something that's been happening for years and there are older and younger versions of this like Jim carries the mask is a version of this movie. Tron, Mars Attacks, this collision, obviously Who Framed Roger Rabbit, probably the most critically acclaimed version of a story like

this. This is a mini genre. It's a sub-genre of movies. It's the collision of the adult sensibility with a childlike view of the world of characters and storytelling. In this story, John Krasinski is iterating upon a topic that we actually already talked about this year on the show Charles when we talked about the movie imaginary which I assume you

did not see wait what there's another movie you didn't see imaginary about an imaginary friend wait is this the horror movie yeah oh no no I saw the trailer for

this is like yeah did you like this if or imaginary imaginary imaginary is my favorite horror film of the year so far. How many have you seen? It's the only horror film of the year so far that I have seen. I might be seeing another one soon. I hope so.

I hope so. I thought it was really funny at the beginning. I mean, there's a scene where this little girl is just screaming at a teddy bear being like, I don't want to be friends anymore, Chauncey. And then she, as the bear, is like, Alice, you must be my friend. Also, the bear, her little girl's name is Alice, which is just funny because that's Sean's daughter's name. So that it's like as a bit. Yeah, I had a great time.

But did I connect to the imaginary friend framing and pay off of this movie? No, I did not. Do either of your children have imaginary friends? Yeah, I want to get into that a little bit. I want to explore that. Let's wait until we finish talking about If, because that's one of my questions as we talk through this. Because imaginary is a $10 million horror movie. It's a very low stakes movie. It's like a single location movie. If is basically a $100 million movie. It stars Ryan Reynolds, whose name we have yet to mention. And it features arguably the most star-studded voice cast

in movie history. Now, obviously this is because Krasinski is friends with a great number of very famous people. It's set in Brooklyn. The true star of the movie is Kaylee Fleming, a teenage actress. And she plays a 12-year-old girl

who's lost her mother and whose father is about to have heart surgery, I think. It's not specified. Not clear. So, like,

all of the medical parent stakes of this movie are confusing and upsetting. But weirdly low because of the lack of specificity. Well, so the first ten minutes of the movie, and we're going to spoil all three of these. I'm sorry if you

don't want to. I'm sorry if you were like, I am so interested in the if extended universe, but we will be spoiling. And like, maybe in the case of if we're doing people a favor because i had a conversation with a friend at a birthday party yesterday um he has a three-year-old daughter and he was like we were gonna go see if and then i heard it was really dark so now i'm not gonna

we might not go see if and i was like yeah let me tell you about the first 10 minutes of the movie which are krasinski trying to do his own up montage, but about this little girl's mother dying and they're like trying to make it happy as she dies. And you just watch all the happy memories of her childhood as she's very obviously stricken with what you assume to be cancer

because at some point she loses her hair and then she dies. So that's how that starts. I wasn't happy. I was wondering what, like, if I was to bring a child, the first like 10 or 15, I'm like, well, at least with Up, it's like some of the most beautiful animation you have. I'm just like, this is just John Krasinski for 15 minutes just being like, what if you had to watch your mother die of cancer? And I'm like, this seems like a really weird way to start this type of movie.

Very upsetting. It's ultimately accurate to the film though because this is just a really maudlin, sentimental movie about, I guess, a kind of lost childhood or like the inability

or the ability to reconnect with what it means to be a kid. But everything you're saying is right. Like, this is a movie that is neither for 3-year-olds nor for 13-year-olds. 13-year-olds will think it is too kiddy and too baby. And toddlers and even five or seven-year-olds, I think, are going to be like, this is a little dark and upsetting. Right.

And so the whole movie is neither fish nor fowl. The whole time you're like, is this supposed to be funny? Is this supposed to be like emotionally affecting? What was it that they were going for? I could never really wrap my arms around the movie it takes a full 45 minutes for any of the characters maybe it doesn't take 45 minutes it felt like it feels like it's like a very long time because after that prologue which is just her mom dying really sad it's just the entire credit sequence ultimately yeah and then there's a lot of of preamble of how she has to move in with her grandmother played by fiona shaw in an immaculate apartment overlooking the brooklyn heights promenade and the full

skyline of manhattan which would not be possible anymore because of movie stars like john krasinski and matt damon who have moved on to that very. But anyway, and she has to move in with her while John Krasinski also has to go to like a very chic hospital for an unspecified surgery on an unspecified date. But like mostly he's just hanging out in sweaters playing pranks in the hospital and is like totally fine.

Krasinski's character has a case of what I like to call magic dad. Yes. There's a certain kind of dad who's like, what I do is magic. And I don't mind saying I love magic. I've said it before on this pod. I'll say it again. I really enjoy magic.

Magic is a little bit creepy. You know, guys were really into magic. I'm being self-incriminating here. It's a little weird. Wait, were you a magician as a child? Never worked as a magician in my life.

Never even played as a magician. Do you know magic tricks? But no, but he's like into it. He's studied it. I like the wonder of it. So I'm coming from a place of understanding

with what Krasinski's going for. I kind of like John Krasinski against some of my better instincts. I thought he was incredibly creepy in this movie. I thought he was one of the creepiest dads in movies I've seen in a long time. And that's not what he was trying to do. He was trying to be the kind of father who makes a strong

connection with his daughter because they have their own language, their own series of bits. And also preserving her childhood, her sense of childlike wonder. he's trying to relieve the stress that this young girl has taken on far too early because she lost her mom so it's true he's like dancing around with like an iv with a face on it but like he's never in a hospital gown he like doesn't seem sick at all like he's just fine and she visits him multiple times bringing, like, flowers. And he's hiding in the closet. But he's, like, impeccably dressed. And it's just like, hey, I'm great.

I'm like, why are you at the hospital? Like, what kind of hospital prep is this? What surgery? What's happening? Here's the thing. I want to stay on this because when I was watching this movie, it dawned on me. And I wanted to ask you, Sean. Are America's white fathers okay you know it's just been it's bluey seems it's up in the air we don't know if bluey is coming back and it's just like yeah I've seen a lot of white dads

just losing their minds Tom Brady has realized he's a father yeah five seconds ago he's like damn doing that roast probably not great for my kids. And now, I feel unfortunate for your generation because just through process of elimination, the dads that are representing your age group are John Krasinski and Ryan Reynolds. Yeah, that's tough.

For the people, the listeners of America, what's going on with white fatherhood? You know, if I were a cynical man, I would leave The Ringer and I would join The New York Times

and I would only write columns from that perspective. I would be the white fatherhood correspondent and I would have an incredibly flourishing career. No, I mean, we're not doing well.

I would say we're not doing well. You know? They're all exploring Pilates for the first time because, yeah, are really hurting them but they haven't they haven't had to care for their bodies until now socially acceptable where it's just like we're all doing pilates well i'll i'll give i will steal a theory from ringer podcaster yasi salik she has been talking about this for years but she i really believe in her thoughts on this now this is a broad sociological observation it is not science it is just something that she has spotted but that i i recognize which is that my generation is the first to experience a profound loss of

american masculinity in the household that the divorce rates go way up in the 80s and 90s in America. And because of that, and then that happens concurrent to this evolved thought around the nature of parenting for those who are in their 30s and 40s now, where co-parenting or the male presence being much more significantly involved than previous generations in child rearing. So you've got all these dads who waited 10 years longer than their parents did to have kids who got used to their normal adult lives who also had this absent influence of a male figure in their life trying to come to terms with how to be a good parent without a strong role model while also turning over a lot of their life to it and all of these dudes are like what i need to do to

express that feeling is make the film if and And that's, like, it is making, like, these are the most successful people in the universe, John Krasinski and Ryan Reynolds. Like, they are. Yeah. Ryan Reynolds, who I really don't like unless he's wearing the Deadpool costume, is crushing the universe.

Like, he is so rich and successful, and he's like, what I need to do to spend more time living in this brain cave is making the movie If. It's a really weird choice. This is a very strange movie. It does indicate, I think,

something odd is happening with the male psyche. But Krasinski, these were his chips. Like, he was, like, the guy. Like, there was a point

where America was like, we were stuck in the house. People were like, we should throw millions at Jonathan Krasinski for his weird, like, morning show about positivity. And then I'm like, you did A Quiet Place. Finally, like, the movie, like morning show about positivity. And then I'm like,

you did a quiet place. Finally, like the movie star thing worked for you, bro. And I'm like, if was the, like, was the followup.

Like, that's the one where you're really like, you know what? This is what he wanted to do. And I was watching this this whole time being like, what was it about? If that you were like, this is what the American people need to see right now.

And I could, well, what do you think it is? I, why are you asking me? I have no idea. Like, I was so baffled by this movie.

I don't understand the recent, and two is not a trend, but the fascination with imaginary friends. And it does seem of a piece with the good news show, whatever that was called, where he's like, now I'm just going to be like Mr. Positivity and Mr. Family Guy. But then he like sold it to a corporation and then decided he wasn't going to host it anymore after he sold it and somebody else was going to host it. I was like, this is even more cynical. Like, what is this? It's a really weird turn.

I don't get it. I was constantly baffled. And it took me a long time to even figure out what the movie was trying to tell me about imaginary friends. And ultimately, it's about trying to preserve some sort of connection to your childhood and childhood wonder and that you can take that with you whatever age you are so i don't know

maybe he had a rough year and was like i need to see the world like a child again i don't i it's is this how children see the world because even like the imaginary friends I was a little bit like... This movie was weird because A, the entire plot and idea of this, there was already a successful children's show that ran on Cartoon Network that had a main character that was literally called Blue. And this one's literally just the big Steve Carell character is called Blue. That's a great point. I hadn't thought about that. This is like the cartoon Blue's Clues. Is that Blue's Clues?

No, it was called Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends. Don't try to cartoon network me. You don't know what you're talking about. I mean, this was past my time. I watched it once and I was like, oh, so he's making another idea that is based around imaginary friends being in a foster home but this movie never could kind of figure out the world building of it totally right because i'm just like all right so all of these imaginary friends are all centralized in new york and their whole goal is

to either find them new kids or remind their adults that they exist. And if I'm an adult, I was just like, if somebody stuck me with an imaginary friend, I'd be like, can I take them back? I don't have room in my apartment for them anymore. Like, this is weird. Right. And Coney Island is the holding station for imaginary friends who've been outgrown. It's like 15 imaginary friends. Right. In all of the New York metro area.

Right. And 8 million people live there. Also, you can change the foster home with your mind, which was also a thing where I was just like, is the imaginary home real? Because the girl and Ryan Reynolds go in there and she's just like, I'm going to make it prettier. Right. go in there and she's just like i'm gonna make it prettier right and so how does her mind relate to the imaginary to the foster home yes it's a good question because then at some point

like the first line of this movie is basically like joan didion for children you know like we tell ourselves stories and but it is just like it's that combined with the game of thrones finale combined with you know like elementary school and then at the climactic moment where she rushes in to see her dad and the grandmother has just done a terrible job setting expectations as a grandmother and you like she's like we have to go to the hospital right now because he might die. And then it just turns out that he's just in recovery. And he's in fact been released from the recovery room. Like he's back in the really nice hospital bed again, just resting.

And she's like, which again, confusing. And, but she's like, dad, I have a great story to tell you. And then she tells a story about how she's a kid and not an adult. And he's like, that was the greatest story. And so I'm like, am I supposed to understand that this whole foster home and all the imaginary kids were a story she was telling herself? Yes. and all the imaginary kids were a story she was telling herself? Yes. No, because they all get their kids.

They all get in the squeeze or tinger. They all get their little like imaginary friends back. Well, yeah. I mean, yes. Along with people that I guess they're all people that she's interacted with. I think that if you interviewed John Krasinski, he would say this all really happened. That the life of the mind is very powerful and that we all have these friends. He's just like, this is actually Inception, but for kids.

Right. Exactly. I mean, yes. Yeah, sure. But when I watched the movie at the end of it, I was like, this is a film about mass psychosis. You know, that we are an infantilized culture that like desperately to be okay needs to reconnect with what it feels like to be four years old now frankly this movie is very on trend for what you've been talking about on the midnight boys and what is happening in our culture and the

fact that we have things that are being made for us as adult men and women that is often meant to just scratch that pleasure impulse from being 8, 12, 10 years old. And so that's another crisis that is happening where it's like, just go back to being a kid. Everything is safe there where you can use your imagination and be free. What's really weird about this is that half of the people who desperately need to be reconnected just work like in corporate finance. Like there are three different people who work in a tall

skyscraper who are like what they really need to feel better is to get their if back in their life which I guess that's just a function

of following the strand of one of the B plots of the movie but I found that very odd what was the B plot? the Bobby Moynihan character

oh that's right the meeting to reconnect with Blue the Steve Carell voiced animated character and then that's right reconnect with blue the steve carell voiced animated character and then that takes us up into this skyscraper and then like the the woman who's like the secretary the receptionist yeah the she also needed to reconnect the way that like blue the big purple looking guy has to reconnect it's like we need to remind him of his childhood so the girl's just like remember croissants?

and I'm like I'm like what? that is if you haven't seen this movie that probably sounds crazy what Charles just said but that is literally

what happens because it's also literally bruised but it's like it's like bruised for two year olds but like croissants are in every bakery in America like did Bobby two year olds but like croissants are in

every bakery in America like did Bobby Moynihan forget about croissants but they're like this smell of this is what is gonna give Bobby Moynihan the ability

to remember blue and go in there and nail his presentation they didn't look like good croissants either like this isn't one of those like hole in the wall like Brooklyn bakeries

where you're just like oh they tried I'm just like this is some fucking slop in Manhattan that was baked hours ago. Yeah. And he's like,

oh my gosh, I remember. Also, they're let into the waiting room because this 12-year-old is like, I'm responsible for a delivery. And so then they're just

letting a 12-year-old sit in this corporate lobby and just like opens the thing of croissants. Well, it made more sense. Which is not how corporations normally greet strangers. Well, in a post-9-11 world, I will say that working in New York for many years, I'm just like, because we realized, spoiler alert, that Ryan Reynolds, they sixth sense us, he's not there. I'm like, there is no way a child is going to be let into this building just talking to a

secretary the secretary like fuck off kid leave which is also weird because the whole time they're just like Ryan Reynolds he's just here but no one's talking and I was just like they're gonna make two choices yeah either John because the whole time I'm like Jonathan Krasinski is weirdly doing a Ryan Reynolds impression this entire time so I'm like I had the same thought I'm just like is is it gonna be revealed that it's either his imaginary friend or the girls? And by the end, they're like,

Oh no, this was he. Ryan Reynolds was a clown imaginary friend that you had forever. And I was like, wait, so are you going to explain who the old women woman is who lives on the top floor of this apartment and the room that she's just going into every single night.

And they just don't. The logic doesn't make sense. I mean, this is a little girl whose imaginary friend is a grown adult man. Well, it's her dad. I mean, that's the thing. Why doesn't it look like John Krasinski? Why does it look like Ryan Reynolds?

I know they look alike. If my daughter's imaginary friend was Ryan Reynolds I would have to be like we need to have a conversation also her dad is alive like why is her dad her imaginary friend

it's like she's projecting her some of her fear about what if she loses her dad so she has to have I don't think it makes sense I'm just saying

I was like I understand the doubling that they're here but the imaginary friend was a clown when she was a little kid that just looked like Ryan Reynolds like I don't what were they're here. But the imaginary friend was a clown when she was a little kid that just looked like Ryan Reynolds.

Like, I don't, what were they, like, did, it really doesn't feel like they thought this one through. Like, I don't, I actually don't know what they're trying to show us.

It should have been two Jonathan Krasinski's. Exactly. If that was what they wanted, I think you're right that that's what they're trying to indicate. That they're like,

there's this fear of losing your father. There's this strong connection between this daughter and this father. You know, I find that very touching. If my daughter,

when I wasn't there, was thinking of me, that would be beautiful to me. If she thought you were a clown, though. But she does think I'm a clown. That's part of our agreement. So I get that idea, but why is it Ryan Reynolds?

I don't understand. Yeah, it was the Ryan Reynolds of it all because I'm just like, it's not even like he's hot Ryan Reynolds. It's like he's just like middle-aged Ryan Reynolds and I'm just like, it's not even like he's hot Ryan Reynolds. It's like he's just like middle-aged Ryan Reynolds.

And I was just like, why? Because she was young. So I was like, did she see a Ryan Reynolds movie when she was young? She's just like,

this guy's now my imaginary friend. I don't think that she's like Deadpool is my imaginary friend. She's just like projecting like a version of a white guy who is like pretty similar. I think you guys are bringing some like Ryan Reynolds

like Deadpool to this. No, no, no. It's just another mid-model guy. You know what I'm saying? Every third joke he's like, bet you're wondering how I got here.

Like he's doing Ryan Reynolds things. He's not doing a performance of a magical guy. But so does John Krasinski. His is a little bit more saccharine. The Ryan Reynolds thing is like, he like really wants to drop

an F-bomb in this movie and knows he's not allowed to. Like, it's really edging towards, like when they're, because there's a lot of jokes. This movie is trying to have it both ways. Like it's trying to do

this very sweet, thoughtful, emotional up style thing. Michael Giacchino does the score to this movie. It's shot by fucking Janusz Kaminski, Steven Spielberg, cinematographer.

Who also did Bill's, like, first grade, like, kid portrait-wise. Yes, he did. He did. He also shot Jerry Maguire. Yeah, exactly. That's a good point. He knows from shooting kids' work.

Exactly. That's a good point. He has experience. Anyway, it's meant to be this very beautiful thing, but it's also trying to be this post-Pixar, like, every joke is a meta joke about pop culture. And a lot of the jokes are here for adults. Like there's a joke about how all the ifs are in therapy together and they're all talking about their pain.

It's like, yeah, that joke is for five year olds. That's weird. Like there is a lot of and a lot of what Ryan Reynolds says in the interviews with the other ifs where he's trying to find matches for them are they're contemporary jokes it's aquafina it's george clooney it's bradley cooper it's matt damon it's all these characters who are playing on their own famous personas and their own famous voices those are jokes for adults they're not really for kids so i thought some of the character design was pretty good considering they were trying to do entirely original characters it's not like an absolute disaster of a movie but it is one of the first in a long time of

I don't really know who this was for and so it's got me thinking harder about this movie than I ever should have thought about it while watching it yeah you did turn to me and you were like first of all who is this for is this for seven-year-olds and then you asked me whether you thought your daughter would like it who has more sophisticated film tastes than the young people in my life and does like have some sort of imaginary connection. She does. I mean, she definitely-

She has a huge imagination, but most of her imagination is drawn from characters she's seen before. So like I mentioned on the pod recently, she's obsessed with Pocahontas and John Smith. So like she wakes up and she's like, she's like, dad, Iontas and John Smith so like she wakes up and she's like she's like dad I saw John Smith

last night in my dream and we have to go find him and she's like wants me to take her out of the crib to go find John Smith I was at a parent teacher conference and they were like

Alice has got a lot of stories about John Smith and I was like Alice John Smith is a white colonizer like I don't know what to tell you I really think

but this is the power of Disney you know this is what Disney can do. Yeah. You know? This is what Disney can do that If cannot. Sean, just really quick. There's just been a long...

There's like... Disney Plus is great for the family home, I have heard. Of all of the just kind of work we've done just trying to show people

like, hey, instead of making movies about colonizers, we got Moana. We got this. How did Pocahontas... Like, how did that get... I was actually thinking about this yesterday. It's like, hey, instead of making movies about colonizers, we got Moana. We got this. How did Pocahontas, like, how did that get into this? I was actually thinking about this yesterday. It's like, talk me through the decision tree that led to putting Pocahontas on.

Well, honestly, she loves Moana. A lot of the contemporary movies she loves, too. It's just one of those things where because of the wonder of Disney+, when you finish the movie, the tiles pop up and they're like, what about these movies? And this is a true story. My wife was at her college reunion and I was with Alice over a long weekend, just the two of us. A little more TV use that weekend than we normally would use. And I forget what it is that we finished watching. Maybe Sleeping Beauty, which was a huge hit. Sleeping Beauty ended as soon as it ended. Would you like to watch Pocahontas and else was like who is that oh what

is that yeah and then as soon as that happens you can't get out of it there's no escape yeah so so it's the algorithm it was the algorithm algorithm basically what you're saying the algorithm incepted george heil to fall in love with a colonizer this is the type of shit yeah that we would usually talk about on the midnight boys i mean but it's it's true for all of our culture you know what i mean, it touches children's entertainment. It touches everything. So, anyway, she does have very active imagination. I think she would be bewildered by this movie.

It's too adult for a toddler. I don't know. I mean, the movie on Thursday, the box office projection was $40 million. And then on Saturday, they're like, whoa, whoa. Turns out, more like 30. And then it finished, I think, at 34. Which is, you whoa, whoa. Turns out, more like 30 and then it finished

I think at 34, which is, you know, for an original children's movie is not terrible, but it feels like this is ultimately

a bit of a disappointment. There are so many things, I mean, Krasinski's desire to make the movie I find very strange given where he was at in his career

with A Quiet Place and Jack Ryan. It's like, this feels like a weird big step back for him. We don't know who it's for. The stakes are illusory

because we don't really know how sick or not sick her dad is. Luckily, it turns out, I mean, I was happy he wasn't that sick. That would have been quite a stroke

if she just like... I will say, like, being completely honest, I did not enjoy this movie, didn't believe in it, and also when she was like running to the hospital to see him, I like, and all the friends were there, I teared up because I can't enjoy this movie. Didn't believe in it. And also when she was like running to the hospital to see him, I like,

and all the friends were there. I teared up because I can't like help it. Because Giacchino was cooking. Cause he was like, what I have is the up juice that I'm going to drizzle on top of this score that I've written. Cause he knows how to get to that place in your brain. You were crying and I was laughing.

Yeah. I thought it was very funny. Like I couldn't help it. And I was like, I like, I knew that I shouldn't be crying, but there was some sort of mom reflex. And so I was tearing up.

But I would have been really mad if he died. That would have been worse. That would have been a misstep. I was a little bit, and this is probably because I don't have children and I also still have writer brain where I was just like, damn, sis,

we should have structured this whole entire story you're telling to your dying father because you kind of, she was going into it. She didn't really have the clear structure. She wasn't giving me a hook. It was just a lot of rambling. And I'm like, this man's about to fucking die. And then when he woke up, I was like, okay,

it was a shitty story, but it didn't kill him. Right. I kind of zoned out when she was telling him the story. I did as well. But I think it was supposed to be like the big key to understanding the movie so i was like trying to follow it but it is one of those things where it's like you know when you're paying attention but you're also not yeah yes couldn't hold it or do you do you guys see in your own children any you're just like

they're going to be a future editor or writer are you like we're stomping that out right now it's a generous question. It's too early to tell. I think what you realize is temperament. Yeah. And temperament indicates what you will be good at and what you'll be drawn to

and what you won't be good at and what you won't be drawn to. Nox seems like he's way too energetic. He's just like, bro, I'm not sitting at a desk. Yeah. I'm a man of the world.

It's hard to imagine him sitting anywhere for any length of time. But like, and I say this with love and desk yeah it's I'm a man of the world it's hard to imagine him sitting anywhere for any length of time but like and I say this with love I think he's a really brilliant child like right now I'm just like will Knox learn to read you know oh no it's ridiculous he will but it's like I'm not you know I realized like I think he knows some of the alphabet but he hasn't shown the inclination to sit down and learn it. And I have not shown the will to be like, I'm going to sit you down and make you do A, B, C, and then D. So... He just turned two.

Only time will tell. You know? I feel like he has time. Like, I feel like he can surprise you. And he learns a lot on his own and that's really nice you know so he surprised me with what he does know which is maybe just my expectations are too low but he knows words to songs he you know he he he learns things independently so maybe that's what i'm discovering about him oh okay yeah okay i believe in nox i was uh she's very smart but very strong-willed and so

she is showing signs of being a fantasy so we're trying to support that while also evolving it so she doesn't turn out like her dad um i i have high hopes but i also i have no desire to put any pressure on her to do anything so that which would be different from the way that I was raised so that's you know like this is this movie is for you

it's interesting to watch I thought this was a fascinating Rorschach test to your question earlier and it did get me thinking about what I'm doing but not

it didn't have any lessons you know what I mean it didn't really show me the light on anything. Not that a movie like this should be expected to, but you can't help what waltzed watching a brown-haired, six-foot-tall, white father do things with a young girl,

with their daughter. What ultimately is the takeaway at the end of this movie? You were asking it. I don't know i i don't know i i don't know is it just a like retain some wonder in your life you unfortunately chose to go to the bathroom during a pivotal scene in which fiona shaw as the grandmother um is through music reconnected with her inner child and her imaginary friend, her if.

I think it's telling that I refuse to use the terminology. Played or voiced by Phoebe Waller-Bridge. Quite a run she's on right now. Yeah. And then they dance together with a view of the Brooklyn Bridge and the Manhattan skyline, which is perfectly out the window. And that is her connecting with her if and her inner child. But we don't really see what that gives her. I was confused because when they're becoming their inner children again, they start lighting up.

But for a while, they never do the thing where they're like, oh, my imaginary friend. So it's just like, she just, like, dances, and then, like, she lights up. She touched her heart, but didn't give.

But then at the end, you know, the little girl and John Krasinski go home happy, and Fiona Shaw turns to the Phoebe Waller-Bridge character and is like, shall we?

Or whatever. They're communicating. Yes. But now Fiona Shaw's stuck with the entire living thing. I'm like, she's an old woman. Like, what? I mean, maybe the If can go to the grocery store for her. The If can make tea.

She repeatedly makes tea throughout the movie. But if I'm an old, I don't want to take care of a living thing. Maybe it's going to take care of her. That's even more depressing. Well, that is really true. And that gets into the elder care, which this movie doesn't go into. Maybe that's if too.

The owner shot was not a great care giver. I will say that. It did seem like the young girl was out till all hours of the night with ifs. And her grandmother was not looking after her. That was troubling. Did you have an imaginary child as a kid?

Imaginary friend as a child? Oh, no. I don't think my parents were like going for that shit. It was just like, it was just, I was just, when I was born,

I just think I had realized, I'm like, damn, the world's rough. There's no imaginary friends. I would be the person being like, fuck Santa. Santa's not real. That's my mom and dad eating those cookies.

So just no. Oh, yeah. Did you? No, not like born like full class. I was like Alice mode, you know, but I was like, I was the one of the Von Trapp kids. I was. Who was your colonizer of choice? That's a great question.

More of a Columbusumbus fan yeah i mean you know captain von trapp is like ultimately on the right side but like sure you know what was austria the austrian navy up to beforehand who can say i like i don't know if it was like great stuff you were playing as a child with the von traps they were just sounds like a nightmare. I really liked that movie. I don't know what to tell you. Fantasy? Yeah, I don't think I invented any characters. I definitely had an active imagination and was really into my worlds.

You know, Star Wars, He-Man, Transformers, G.I. Joe. I can remember being three, four years old and being really locked in on all that stuff and then getting into comic books, which we've talked about before. So I think I loved those worlds, but I don't remember being like, hey, Steve, let's go for a walk.

You know, like I never, that never happened to me. Do you actually, and that's why I was like, who was this movie for? Because I think what happened, like imaginary friends make a lot more sense when it's just like, oh, there's just, you can watch Huckleberry Hound or like Yogi Bear. I'm just like, these are cool, but that's just a bear and a dog.

Yeah. And then like Star Wars and shit happens and we're just like inundated with such cool shit. Disney, princesses, everything. When I'm a kid, to your point, I'm like, I remember like playing like I'm a Jedi. Those were like my imaginary friends and this movie I was like do kids still like in a Fortnite world where Naruto is just like doing a crip walk next to Superman I don't think kids are like you know what I have a ballerina that's just my friend that's so boring that is true yeah so you're saying iPads killed imaginary friends IP I think big IP just kind of just zapped that part of us.

Interesting. Yeah, I mean, I buy that. I buy that. Speaking of IP, shall we talk about Back to Black? Absolutely. That's a rude but true segue. So this movie actually bombed hard this weekend. I don't know if you saw it made like $2 million.

Wait, what? That is crazy how, I mean, it opened wide. Well, it does seem like they just absolutely gave up on it. They punted on it. Yeah. Because it's doing, it's done pretty well in wide. Well, it does seem like they just absolutely gave up on it. They punted on it. Yeah. Because it's done pretty well in England. Well, yeah. What does that mean?

I don't know. You know, they have different media standards and different... Are you beefing with the Englishman? Well, listen. I don't think the tabloid press in the UK like helped this situation. Do you? Yeah. No.

So. This new film is a, it's effectively not a cradle to grave, but a 20 through 27 profile of Amy Winehouse, beloved late singer songwriter. It's directed by Sam Taylor Johnson. It stars Marissa Bella from industry as amy winehouse jack o'connell eddie marsan and leslie manville i'm very critical of movies like this on the show

we both are we have been for a long time well i like like i can like them if they do it well but uh hard no they did not do this well i i'm trying i think i have a pretty good handle on what happened here but i think we should explore it what is can you give me the just the top level because like i went into this movie cold and i'm just like i have my theories but as the as the big pick big brain what do you think actually happened well it feels like a movie controlled by an estate that wants to reset the narrative of what Amy Winehouse's life was and also remove culpability from what may have happened. That's what it feels like. In 2015,

Asif Kapadia directed an incredible documentary called Amy, which won an Academy Award for Best Documentary. It is a kind of... And it's available on Max right now. You can stream it. I would recommend you stream it. It is a fascinating portrait of her life. It is a very sad story. But one of the things that it does so well is it and the scare around how she was living her life. But also you could see that that pain was being, you know, transmuted into work. This movie, it feels like a series of like axe grindings or like quote unquote clarifications around things that we learned in the documentary. And so if you watch them side by side, you can be like, oh, wow, it seems like somebody wants to make clear that what was indicated here, which is this kind of prismatic portrait, a series of voices talking in the documentary about Amy's life, including Amy's voice. And then this movie, which seems to is announcing that it is giving Amy Winehouse a kind of agency and telling the story from her

perspective, but instead seems to be offloading responsibility from her father, Mitch, and from Blake Fielder Civil, who was her partner for a long stretch of time when she was famous. And so you get this movie that on the one hand features the music of Amy Winehouse, which is excellent, that features Marissa Abella trying really hard to transform into somebody who's, if you were a fan of hers, you have a very clear vision in your mind's eye of what she was, what she looked like, what she sounded like. A very singular presence, voice,

look. Yes. And, and also she was like covered extensively. Right. In the media. So you have, if you were following it,

like you almost recognize the footage and what they're trying to recreate. Yes. There are a couple of moments from the documentary that they're trying to completely recreate or award show moments or things like that. So there's crossover there, but the point of view and the energy is very different. And this movie does a couple of things that I thought were just really strange. One, it doesn't really spend a whole lot of time showing her writing or recording music. There's an entire scene where I was like, this whole movie, I was just like, when are we getting to Back to Black?

Back to Black, that's why I'm here. Like, I was just like, I had punted already on this being a good movie. I'm like, I get to hear Amy's music loud and just seeing her create this. And quite literally, the entire Back to Black is just like, she leaves, and you can kind of tell

her grandmother's gonna die. They have an entire montage sequence of her being sad walking through New York and then just the album is made. And then,

and also, so they're playing, literally, they play the song Back to Black and I think that's, Marissa Abella does things in this.

And listen, you can't recreate Amy's voice but like, she's trying, you know? This was a real test of your rule though. Yeah, no, no, no, yeah. And listen, you can't recreate Amy's voice, but like she's trying, you know? This was a real test of your rule though. Yeah, no, no, no, no. And I bring that up because like she's not a bad singer.

Like you have to, you know, she tried. But then they play the original, they play the back to back to black recording. And you're like, okay, so that is actually Amy's voice. And it has just sort of that like undefinable, you know, timbre to it that is what made her so great. So you finally get to hear the music, but then they send her to New York where she doesn't interact with anyone else.

No Mark Ronson, no nothing. Right. They are also like recreating the scenes described in the lyrics of the song Back to Black word for word, which was when I was just like, oh, my God, who let this happen? It's rough. Why? And then I believe it's also that montage where the crack ex machina appears and she starts doing like much harder drugs, but it's like, it is quite literally in closeup.

There is just absolutely no context. You don't know when she started it, why she started it, where she got it, where she is using it, what the circumstances are that led to it. It is just, there's like no narration.

It is just like suddenly hard drugs appeared. Who can say how or why or what happened? Or even like why even Amy like got down that path, you know? There's just absolutely no responsibility. And then things turn. I was flabbergasted. To the movie's point, they're just like, hey, Amy might be taking hard drugs, but we're going to throw in this little scene where a young black girl runs up to her and be like, you're my hero.

And we just see like Amy buying alcohol and she's like signing an autograph on the back of a receipt. And it's like, I was like, does this movie like Amy Winehouse? Or it's like, I was just like, who let the, it just, the doc, I went back to watch the documentary and I'm just like, Amy in that documentary,

there's a softness to her and all the people around her is just like, yeah, like she's very charismatic but there is a thing where it's just like, she's a very sensitive soul

and I was like, this movie, Marissa, like she's trying but they get none of that across. And they don't want to touch any of like the complications. I also went back and rewatched the documentary. And I mean, it does a lot of things more specifically.

But there's this one anecdote. It's one of her friends in voiceover. And it's after the Grammys when she wins record of the year. And she's in London. And, you know, I vividly remember she's like on satellite and her friend says like right after that moment, Amy like pulled her up and says to her, this is so boring without drugs. And which is just like, I mean, heartbreaking and so sad, but like, this is a person who struggled with addiction, who struggled with bulimia, like who

had a lot of things going on herself. And not only is the movie like trying to remove blame from her father and from Blake, but also trying to remove it from herself. Like, it's like, we're not going to touch that this was a person, like a very talented, complicated person with like a lot of stuff going on. They're just like, there were no problems

except for that her grandmother died and then like her ex-boyfriend had a baby. Yeah, I think the movie is trying to find one emotional logic endpoint to explain her pain, which is that she had always wanted to be a mother and that when she and Blake could no longer be together,

that effectively ended her ability to do that or they couldn't conceive or whatever the movie is trying to insinuate about their relationship. But Amy Winehouse was 27 when she died. I mean, the truth is, is that she had an awful addiction that took her life. Like, and trying to like single-handedly

psychologize that is impossible in a movie. And we already have a documentary in which people who were in her life are walking us through some of those feelings so and she also like in re-watching the documentary and also in watching black to black i was i was really struck by a lot of this is happening as the same time as britney spears in the united states um and you know we've done all of the Britney stuff many times over. And I guess we're somewhere better, but that's still very complicated. But watching it again, the roll of the tablets, the amount of exposure and what that does to someone is made very clear in the documentary.

And because this is a piece of media about Amy Winehouse, the movie basically avoids that as well. There are a couple. There's one or two scenes. There's one. And then, oh my God. But that one scene where they get in a scuffle with her, they like do this like lingering,

like paper bag and American beauty closeup of the, the ballet flat, which I was like, the whole time I had been like, where are the ballet flats? Honestly, like, what are you doing? And then that's what they decided to do. I was very upset.

I mean, does this even like, maybe this is my music critic brain where I was just like, the documentary does a very good job of being like, no, Amy, she trains in jazz. Like she, they're showing all of the musicians, whether it's Questlove or Tony Bennett or Yassin Bey being like, no, she was actually like really into this music. She she was like Questlove was like, no, she was sending me records that I hadn't heard. And I was just like, this movie also does a terrible job of even kind of showing you how talented she was as a musician. It's just like, oh, no, the music is just made. And I'm like, the music wasn't made in a vacuum.

They spent so much time on being like yo you guys want more blake stories and i'm like fuck like i'm like can you show her making any music ever okay there's two the one thing in the movie that i liked is the one thing that i think is the biggest sin so i think that the extended like meet cute between blake and amy in the pub and the Shangri-La and the Shangri-Las like when Jack O'Connell is doing Leader of the Pack

I was just like this is you know he's amazing but that is such a you're right it's a sin that whole sequence

is really really great because they have great chemistry together it's really it's like a really interesting origin point of her kind of realizing like who she always

wanted to be or is meant to be is that she wants to she needs like another half that that is something we know in the for real life amy like blake impacted her profoundly but the idea that amy winehouse doesn't know who the shangri-la's are like it's fucking weird that is true like questlove has given so many interviews where he's like she put me on to artists like questlove's the biggest record dork in the history of time how does amy winehouse who's already recorded her first album at this point not know who the shangri-la's are or phil

specter or any of that music is fucking nonsense i mean even at that time there's music happening in camden like liberty all these like it's recalling that era yeah and i'm just like it's like she goes and she sees blake and i'm just like no she's living in a place in camden that she's just like it seems like she had a rejuvenation artistically. And the movie is like, this could be any neighborhood in fucking England. It doesn't matter. It's just, the movie is really never specific about anything. And I was like, am I just misremembering this time? time yeah well you pointed this out too that the absence of Mark Ronson and Salam Remy only

appearing in like 20 seconds of the movie when they are like what what you want to see in this movie is the same way you want to see like Bohemian Rhapsody get written and reported in Bohemian Rhapsody it's like show me the making of Back to Black like why are we even making this movie we have footage of it like I watched the footage of, like, Mark Ronson's documentary when she's in the recording booth. And it is always, like, we make fun of music biopics,

but, like, you know, the recent Aretha Franklin biopic, Respect, which was not very good, but, like, there's the moment in the studio, and you're like, oh, my God,

they're writing Respect, and someone's about to do Sakatubi, and you're like, yes! It's always really good. If you're going to make a bad music biopic, at least give us that one moment.

I mean, I did have to. I assumed that some of it had to do with legal rights and that Mark Ronson was like, don't. I think you're right. Get, like, get. I don't want to be a part of this. And yeah, and like, don't you, you know, there are the legal ramifications if you do this. I mean, I don't, I'm not saying that Mark Ronson threatened them, but, and same for Zolam Remy. A thing I found out is that one of the producers, Alison Owen, is Lily Allen's mom.

And that was one of the reasons that she wanted to do this is that because she understood the parent perspective of having a child who was like not in the same stratosphere. But like Lily Allen was also in the scene working with Mark Ronson at the same time. And like what happens when you have a child become super famous but I did also then wonder if that softened some of the ways that you know they presented everything like who can know I mean the father is a magical father I just like completely I was just gonna say it feels like Mitch Winehouse got to fact check this movie like every single thing that he does and Eddie Marsan god bless him I'll like him in anything that he does, he's trying his best as well. But that's a figure that has otherwise been described in the press and throughout the entirety of Amy Winehouse's public life as an enabler and somebody who didn't help her daughter.

And in this movie, he's her best friend and the person who always made her feel safe. And that's crazy. I thought I was losing my mind watching the movie. But that's obviously the reason this movie was made. This movie was made because that part of the estate was allowed for it to be made. And Sam Taylor Johnson is a director that I think has no style

and every movie is incredibly boring to look at too. And I just thought this really was flat and uninspiring. Can we talk about the ending? Yes. Oh. I gasped aloud in the theater so it's not I guess I guess at the point in the movie when this happens she has already written tears dry on their own but the final shot is Amy Whitehouse in her like new fancy home that's still being renovated or whatever. And she like extemporizes the part of Tears Dry on their own as if she's writing it for the first time that is releasing Blake from any culpability.

And then goes upstairs and there's a shot of the bird that she inherited from Dan. And then cut to Amy Winehouse died at the age of 27 from alcohol poisoning. Like two more cards. And then they cut to Marissa Abella like in the famous Grammy setup, just doing a real like peppy cover of Tears Dry on their own.

And that's how they send you out. I, I like, I texted, I know I'm not, I know, I know people are gonna be mad, but I was so, I was alone and so upset. I was just in the theater as she was singing, texting Sean, being like, what the fuck is this? Are you kidding me? I was like, I was like, the movie isn't gonna end

because it's like, they're doing this thing where they're just like, she learns because I'm just like, oh, this is disgusting because she learns before she ascends the stairs. I think it's a paparazzi basically being like, yeah, how do you feel about Blake having a kid? And what the movie is insinuating is essentially that because Amy either could not have children or couldn't have children with Blake or whatever. She basically drank herself to death. And I'm just like, how does this get past? Right. And then, oh, they also do a voiceover.

There's that. And then they play her voice just saying, I just always wanted people to hear my voice. Yes. And then they just do like up-tempo tears down their own. They're like, it's okay because we still have her voice. Like what? That was the worst part.

It was one of the most insane movie choices I've seen in a while. My favorite Amy Winehouse song is Some Unholy War. And there's a down-tempo version of the song that you can find

on the Amy soundtrack and it's on like the expanded editions of Back to Black. And it's like a collision of the two Amy Winehouse albums. It's like the jazziness of the first record and then's like a collision of the two Amy Winehouse albums. It's like the jazziness

of the first record and then the like real torch song like profound emotional depth on the second album. And that song's super important

because it's like this is a person who actually was tortured by her like inability to be loved and to love herself. Like that's ultimately

what the Amy Winehouse tragedy is. And the movie is like what a fun song we have here at the end of this movie it's insane it's crazy i couldn't believe it really doesn't hit the note that you want it to hit at all um marissa was also wildly miscast yeah it was because i love her on industry she's so good on industry

but i was like to your point it's like even when you see amy the documentary, it's just like she has such a singular face and her cheeks and the way she moves. And it was almost like Marissa was doing a reenactment of how I remember the paparazzi and the tabloids kind of positioning Amy. And I was like, how did she come to this performance? It was really bad. Even the wig, just the whole, it wasn't great.

Yeah, it's really disappointing. I'm not selling my Marissa Abella stock, but also the world doesn't want this. It's unusual to get a movie like this so soon, you know, 10 years later after someone has died. Like The Doors, for example, was like 15 or 20 years after the death of Jim Morrison. That's a similar kind of a figure.

I guess we've seen Last Days, which was sort of a Kurt Cobain movie that Gus Van Sant made, but we haven't really had a proper Kurt Cobain. If you go through the list of people who've died young, who are musical artists, I guess we've had a Tupac movie.

I guess we've had a Biggie movie. We have had a Biggie movie. What was the Tupac movie? Wasn't had a Tupac movie. I guess we've had a Biggie movie. We have had a Biggie movie. What was the Tupac movie? Wasn't there a Tupac? I don't think, I don't know if I ever saw it. I might have, yeah. It's probably so bad that I blacked it out. Yeah, All Eyes on Me.

With Demetrius Shipp Jr. Yeah, I blacked that one out. Who looks exactly like Tupac. You don't know this movie? No. It was directed by Benny Boom, the music video director. Check out All Eyes on Me

when you get home. It's not good. This is a very odd thing. It seems like people that just didn't want it. And it does also seem like at least in the US, they completely gave up on it

promo-wise. But aren't we getting more? I think we're going to get more of this because it's like everything around amy watching this movie i'm just like oh the chances of us getting the mac miller version of this oh god are very very high yeah just because i think artists get more popular faster than ever and when they die it's just like everything that happened with like Tupac

and Biggie I think the media and everyone has kind of learned and crystallized how do we like keep these figures alive in everyone's mind and I was like when I was watching this I'm like to your point I'm like I don't actually know if enough time has passed for them to do the version of the this version of the movie correctly. Like, it was, I'm just like, I still have too much of the time. So when I was watching this, I'm like, that's not how any of this felt. Well, to Amanda's point about the tabloid stuff,

it doesn't really feel like our culture has changed all that much when it comes to that sort of thing too. So, you know, the first movie that Sam Taylor Johnson directed, which was also written by Matt Greenlee, it was Nowhere Boy, which is about like the early life of John Lennon.

And you could at least say in 2009 when that movie was made that was like 50 years later and the world had changed significantly so you're showing us a time that maybe we've forgotten about or we don't understand in Back to Black it's like this could have been yesterday like it could have been a year ago. Arguably things have just gotten I was like oh things have just gotten worse

with tabloid culture where I was just like oh it was bad for Amy I'm like if Amy was still popping now I'm just like she would just log on to Twitter or Instagram and be like

everyone's still mad yeah everyone hates me yeah I don't recommend looking at like Fielder Sybil's Instagram which is not verified but I'm pretty sure

it's him and that's is it grim? it's he is both like posting photos of him with Amy and like in a nostalgic way

and also being like, it's not my fault. Like even now, it's tough stuff. I will just say for the audience, I want to give a shout out to the Midnight Mob and the Midnight Writers. Usually I'm like Squidward looking at you guys, SpongeBob, Patrick, having fun. You guys get to watch movies

that are aspiring to be art. And after the three movies we watched this week, I'm just like, damn, maybe X-Men 97 wasn't that bad. Maybe this stuff isn't. I mean, if you want to put

X-Men 97 against Unfrosted, we can do it right now. Ugh. Lead us into Unfrosted, Sean. So, Unfrosted is the new film from Jerry Seinfeld perhaps you've heard of him

this film is now available on Netflix I I'll give you a very brief description of what this movie is about in 1963 Michigan business rivals

Kellogg's and Post compete to create a cake that could change breakfast forever that cake of course would eventually become the Pop-Tart. This is a movie about the war to design and create the Pop-Tart. What?

What? Why? So, okay. The movie itself is an attempt, I think, to revive two kinds of movies at the same time. The first kind of movie is the kind of cameo-laden, quote-unquote star-studded, spoofy, high-energy, airplane-style, Zucker Abrams, 70s and 80s comedy. The other thing that it's trying to do, which is obviously in the same lineage, but has a slightly different tonality, even if it has some Zuckerrams in it is the like scary movie or epic movie or superhero movie version of spoof

movie culture in this case it's done 60 years ago in michigan about corporations breakfast corporations right fake corporations i guess the thing that i was just wondering i was like how does this are they fake i thought they're no they're real i mean but like the fake story like none of these people are real like you just have a bunch of like actors being like oh no jerry science i was like i'm not doing any research i all of this. I'm just making up the fictional creation of the Pop-Tart, which is like kind of, I was like, this is essentially the same tree as the Hot Cheetos story,

where it's just like. Yeah, it's, well, it's like Hot Cheetos, but then it's also, it's like the Mattel parts of Barbie. Yes.

Married with air. Like, but. But none of those movies, the Barbie and Mattel stuff is the closest tonally to what this movie is trying to do but it is with also a little bit of 30 rock but but i think that's very generous but sure no but it's not funny but in the sense of like we are like we're making jokes about the corporate ownership of and like the larger structure of this thing that we're like not totally taking seriously.

And we're like wink winking at it. Right. Well, OK, so I guess just as an explanation point, obviously, Jerry Seinfeld, the co-creator of the TV show Seinfeld, one of the signature components of his stand up comedy over the years. And this is represented in the show is that he's really interested in breakfast. He loves cereal. He has a lot of jokes and bits about cereal. You could always see cereal boxes in his apartment, in the TV show. For whatever reason, this is one of his things. So I assume that that is ultimately what led to the interest in the creation of this film, which I guess you

could say is about the ways that corporate imagination are constantly trying to reinvent ways to make money, you know, and that the idea that Netflix, a company that spent the last 20 years trying to find a way to reinvent how we get our entertainment only to double back and introduce advertising and live programming and making it seem like it was 20 years ago there's something kind of sweetly and probably not purposefully ironic about that but the actual movie when you sit down to watch it you're like what the fuck is this like i who wants this who is it for i have no idea also like our kellogg's or whatever Kellogg's, like, multinational is called now and post involved in this? I don't know. I couldn't find any information, but I was

like, okay, so I'm watching a commercial, but it's, but there are being, like, good sports about it, so that's supposed to make me like the Pop-Tart more. Like, what is going on? I mean, here's the thing. I will say, at various points watching this, I was high. And I did think that, like, the little white children in the dumpster. They were funny. I was just like, I was like, this should just be a movie about the dumpster kids eating, like, Rice Krispies from the trash. That was literally the best part. I also liked it when he has to go back to NASA to recruit Melissa McCarthy.

And they're doing moon landing trainings. And there's the alien interactions training and all the scenarios with the alien. That was funny. The alien is... I laughed at that. Well, it was good physical comedy. Well, who also... The alien is stoned or whatever.

It was funny. Who shot this movie? Because Don, like, they do a whole extended Mad Men bit where I'm just like, I'm sorry. Why? What are you doing with my beloved Don Draper? The suit looks terrible. This joke is like, this wouldn't have been funny on SNL 10 years ago.

Why are we doing this? There were multiple points where I'm just like, oh no, this is an SNL skit that has just been strung along for 90 minutes. There are so many stars in this. I was like, did not one of these comedians be like, what the fuck is this movie? Like, what are we doing?

I regret to inform you that this film was shot by Bill Pope, who is the cinematographer of The Matrix, among many other wildly successful films. Why does the movie look like that? I think that that's how they want it to look. I mean, I think the production design is very purposeful,

and that's really the thing. It's meant to be a kind of like pop art, real but fake, recreation of the 1960s. And it's also meant to have that feeling, like pop art, real but fake recreation of the 1960s. And it's also meant to have that feeling like in Scary Movie where you're like, this is a set. Like, I think we're on a set here. We're not in a real world. And so you're never meant to let your mind go beyond.

We're in a jokey space. Like, it wants you to feel like there's nothing real about what's transpiring as opposed to the work that bill pope did and i don't know i mean he's sam ramey and and the wachowski's cinematographer for years and years and years he shot gridlocked the tupac movie with bondy curtis hall made like so this is an enormously capable cinematographer it's just like this is the movie that they wanted to make they clearly made the movie they wanted to make also to your point about mad men i think if you were like oh this is like an upstart independent film

that's trying to mock these kinds of movies. But the stars of this movie are Jerry Seinfeld, Melissa McCarthy, Hugh Grant, Amy Schumer, Peter Dinklage,

Christian Slater, Bill Burr, James Marsden. I was upset when Hugh Grant showed up as Tony the Tiger. I was like, listen, I know he has like five children,

but, and, you know. has like five children, but, and you know. Whoa, whoa, don't, movie critics, guys, stop pocket watching, okay? First you do it with Coppola, now we're doing it with Grant. Why can't he just collect a check? No, I know he has five, I understand, but I like, I didn't want

him to take this check, necessarily. So it's been Oompa Loompas and Tony the Tiger. Yeah. That that's your man that's your guy yeah and also a bunch of serial killers uh what's going on with you grant is he okay like like i said i i do believe that he has five children um that he had pretty late in life so sometimes you need money for that i'm looking at his wiki and one of the subcategories is political views. What's happening in that? Oh, yeah.

Oh, listen, he you got to follow him on Twitter. My guy has the best old white guy Twitter. He vociferously against Brexit and is really upset by the British current British government. And he's also led all the charge into all the tabloid phone hacking because he was hacked I am not a lib dem a Tory

a laborite or anything in particular but I recognize political guts yeah it's really elite stuff so he tweets about that and then he tweets about how

movie cinemas are really loud he says cinemas because he's British and then like various concerts he takes his kids to. I think he enjoyed

the Blackpink concert. This guy is on a run right now. Yeah. He's on an incredible run. Since 2015 here's what he's done. The Man From U.N.C.L.E.

Wonderful movie. Yeah. Florence Foster Jenkins. Didn't like it. Meryl Streep. Paddington 2. Everybody loves it. 2019

The Gentleman. Guy Ritchie yeah listen that worked out sure 2022 he had a cameo in Glass Onion

and Knives Out Mystery 2023 this is legendary stuff Operation Fortune Ruse de Guerre the most recent Guy Ritchie movie before

this movie the Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare which we have not yet talked about on the show which we will Dungeons and Dragons Honor Among Thieves Wonka and Unfrosted.

As I said. No pocket watching on the big, on big pay. What's your relationship to Jerry Seinfeld? Complicated. Because grew up on, I, because I've started realizing this. I'm just like, Charles, you are among the last generation who remembers not being able to pick the TV. Like it was just like Seinfeld would just be on. And I'm like, all right, who are these old people?

And then I'd be like, this is the greatest show ever. And then at like I get into Curb, love it. And now we're at a point where let's just say among my generation, Jerry Seinfeld is not that popular. Every single time he does an interview, people be quoting, be like, guys, search Jerry Seinfeld, 17 year old. It's just, it's so funny how you have Larry David, who I feel like Q rating is through the fucking roof. People are like, all right, Larry David, he's our guy. We love him and jerry seinfeld has kind

of become the like either he's doing some shit with cars and drive visit drive-ins and diners or he's making unfrosted and i'm like i feel like you're better than this did you watch comedians and cars i saw some episodes did you like it? It was okay. You know, it was sort of like, it was before carpool karaoke, right? I think so. But it was like in that age where sometimes the video, the online video market wasn't like oversaturated. So you would just get like 10 minutes of famous people hanging out. And I don't like, sometimes if I like the famous people, I don't mind it.

But I wasn't, I don't care that much about comedians, respectfully. Did you have pencils down focus on Seinfeld as a kid or was it not your thing? Yeah, totally. Because my parents also loved it and I was allowed to watch it with them. Seinfeld and Friends was like, that was an important block of television for me. I remember sitting in my friend Drew's living room watching the finale of Seinfeld. I know about Bobca from Seinfeld and love it to this day. So I appreciate everything that they do.

But yeah, and reruns too. So there are many situations in the world where I'm like, oh, this is like that Seinfeld episode. Yeah. It's not unreasonable to say like it is a formative influence on my life that TV show that that tone of comedy and that that simultaneously vitriolic and joyful blend

of weirdness that somehow permeated our culture and became the most popular show in America had a huge influence and it's

fascinating that he's basically spent 30 years not doing shit that anybody cares about and he wrote and directed this movie which I was like this was the one that you were like i'm coming back y'all for the unfrosted i was like

you didn't want to do an oscar bait movie you didn't want to do something like but at this point i'm like 30 years later i'm like what does jerry seinfeld love what's like important to him when i watch curb i could be like, oh, I understand Larry David's view on the world. And I am no closer to understanding what Jerry Seinfeld likes besides driving in his car with famous people and breakfast cereals.

And I'm like, is that always just what it was? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, there's that fascinating documentary Comedian from 2002 that he is one of the co-stars of and he's the executive producer of. And it's like, it's a blended film. It's a film that is about him basically developing a new act and going on the road. And then it's cut against this up-and-coming comedian named Orny Adams and him struggling to become a comedian.

And you get this like psychological portrait of these two guys. I think they both come off a little bit unlikable, to honest with you stand-up comedians in general can be a little bit unlikable when shown not on stage but um since then he's basically done that streaming or that youtube show that became a streaming show he's done b movie yeah charles where are you on b movie i'm not i'm out on the meme factory on b movie itvie. It's just, it's... Also, I don't like thinking about the implications of having sex with a B. Do you have sex with a B? I'm just out. I'm just out.

Okay. So you don't want to think about B-propriation. Is that a part of the B-movie? No, that has become like the meme. And I don't know if it's on Black Twitter, but it is like a meme now. It's just like yo this man

no she cheated on her man with a B like oh she fumbled like da da da da and I'm just like oh now I have to think about

like oh is my shawty gonna cheat on me with a B that's voiced by Jerry Seinfeld right okay you know my experience of this movie

was also influenced by seeing Jerry Seinfeld on Everybody's in LA, the John Mulaney show. I don't know if you guys watched any of the John Mulaney show on Netflix. No, that's Dadcore, but continue. I watched some clips of it on John Mulaney's various social media platforms. You watched some clips?

Yeah, because John Mulaney posted them and they get served to me. I'm checking it. What is your social media diet like? You're on Blake's Instagram. You know about Hugh Grant's political views. Well the blake thing i like was doing research that's not being said to me i want to be clear that's not where my algorithm is you have an account pinned and like my algorithm on instagram is very different than my algorithm on twitter but i've gotten my twitter algorithm to a pretty good place where I follow John Mulaney. So he was

posting clips. Right. But then on the other side, it's just feeding me inside the NBA clips. So that's, that's, that's my media diet. And on Instagram, I was getting too much, like increase your protein stuff. So I told him, so I, I know. So I banned the word protein and I started liking a bunch of videos of cakes. So now it's just- How many protein shakes are you drinking a day? We should have you at three. I'm not doing- I don't like shakes.

I don't like liquid food. It's not about the shakes. I'm not actually looking for efficiency. I enjoy eating. So I want to find opportunities to eat things I like rather than having a shake. How many chicken breasts are we up to? I- But I did,

it's like really not sitting with me right now, but I did finally do a protein plate at Sweetgreen last week. I have like, I wish it had had more vegetables, but I appreciated the extra protein. Anyway, back to my social media, I muted protein as like, so you can't, no post with the word protein can be served to me. And then I liked a bunch of pictures of cake. So I just have, so Instagram is all cake.

And Twitter is everybody in LA clips and inside the NBA clips. I'm thriving. This is like me, but just faving every Rowdy Rowdy Piper picture that I see. So I only get served Piper material on Instagram. I don't know how we got there from Unfrosted. I don't think we need to go back. Did you watch Seinfeld on Everybody in LA? Oh, yeah.

Okay, my point was I saw him on that show, which was a really fun show and a really cool experiment. And I loved that on the first episode, he was like, we're doing six of these and we'll never do another one ever again. So whatever happens, happens, and I don't care. I loved that energy. But Jerry Seinfeld came on and was just like a dickhead. He just like wasn't nice and accommodating. And obviously, John Mulaney is hugely influenced by Seinfeld.

He's talked about how the show Seinfeld was very influential on him. They have a kind of similar joke writing style. I would say Mulaney has more edge than Seinfeld does, but they have a kind of similar joke writing style i would say melanie has more edge than seinfeld does but they have a lot in common but seinfeld just came on and seemed like a entitled old rich guy and was kind of rude yeah isn't that his whole shtick kind of now it does kind of seem a little bit like he was very successful as a result of seinfeld and then just like went to be a rich guy but it's okay to like do that in Dilly Dally. Like, I don't know. You know, I always point this out,

but I'm like, you know who you should try to be like? Fucking Paul Newman. You know what Paul Newman did? He got incredibly rich and successful in the 60s and the 70s. And then in the 80s, he was like, I'm going to start a charity where we make organic food and I'm going to make cool movies

that you wouldn't expect from me. Let's just try to aspire to that. You know what I mean? Like, let's not just put a public asshole. Are you putting Seinfeld and Paul Newman in the same? Yeah, but maybe he's not a Paul Newman. I'm just saying it's something to aspire to that. You know what I mean? Like, let's not just put a public asshole. Are you putting Seinfeld and Paul Newman in the same? Yeah, but maybe he's not a Paul Newman.

I'm just saying it's something to aspire to. You know? Is that what you're trying to aspire to? I am so far from that you can't even believe it. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Sean. Do you like salad dressing? Sure, yeah. What kinds? Top three. Well, I love a balsamic vinaigrette you are a balsamic boy yeah you are I love any Caesar salad

so you will do a Caesar dressing even though it is a white condiment I will that is a rare exception you don't like white condiments I'm on the same no white drugs no white condiments that's a life rule take that to the grave with you no white drugs no white condiments that's a life rule you haven't heard that before take that to the grave with you that's a very important one

no white drugs no white condiments I mean on the last Midnight Boys we were saying you and Chris clips boys so you're not on

the white drugs I don't think you need to use white drugs to appreciate what clips were doing and are doing well I think better understand

the cultural circumstances of the artists. Your father was a detective, so. He was a narc detective. Yeah. So he wasn't fucking with the clips. No, but was my appreciation for the clips a reaction to that experience? Perhaps it was.

So we got Balsamic, Caesar, third. I'll tell you what I like. I like Russian dressing, but I prefer it on a sandwich rather than a salad. Yeah. Russian dressing on a sandwich is fire. Is Russian dressing actually used on a salad ever? I don't know if it is. I don't think so.

I think it is comparable to Thousand Island dressing, which is sometimes used on a salad, like a shrimp louis. But I think Russian dressing is primarily a sandwich condiment. And it's heartening to hear you say that you will eat that because you don't like any other condiments on sandwiches. I love ketchup. But like, do you put ketchup on a turkey sandwich? No, no, no.

Like, what's your ideal turkey sandwich? Dry. Dry? Thank you. Yes. Yeah. What? No, like, no nothing.

No, no, no. No. Olive oil, some vinegar. Topinade would be nice. A little olive topinade. I would enjoy that. We don't do any, like we don't, we need some moisture.

Yeah, that's the thing. He does not want it. My in-laws are the same way and it's like, I'm surrounded by such things. Turkey, a little bit of cheese,

maybe some munster, that'd be nice. Obviously, tomato, onion, those are all great. how are you swallowing? Yeah,

it doesn't, it's just got that powerful throat. Maybe this is why you don't eat lunch. Because I don't know how to eat lunch. Yeah, exactly. Because it just gets stuck in your throat. And you're like. My final side thought question.

Because I grew up reading, Sean. Oh, wow. Were you a mixtape about nothing fan? It has not aged well. Yeah. I mean, I was really, really deep in covering rap when Wale and Cudi and Drake and all those guys were emerging.

So I was listening to that stuff way too much. I loved anybody who's like, I have an idea for a concept album. You know, like if you just say that out loud, I want to try to, as Amanda has heard me,

like buy into movies that maybe don't work because I'm like, I like what they're going for here. I liked it. I definitely have not listened to it since 2010. And I probably would never put it.

Is it even available on Spotify? It is available. This is the Seinfeld-themed Wale mixtape that essentially preceded like his major label breakthrough. Yes. Where he's rapping,

he's sampling Seinfeld for the entire mixtape and that's as a kid i was just like yo seinfeld's cool now and then i went back to listen to it i was like oh no seinfeld and rap don't mix you could make the case though that that era is the beginning of the end for rap as the most exciting creative art form that is also leading American culture. I would agree. You know what I mean? Like at the time I was

like it's pretty cool that I get to write about this for a living and get to see these artists. I spent four hours with Wale once in an ESPN zone in New York

when I was working at Vibe magazine. Super nice guy. Really enjoyed my time with him. Didn't quite turn out to be the artist I hoped he would be.

I think there's felt like something a little pandering about doing the Seinfeld tape at that time. Yeah. Where it was like, how many white boys can I get interested in this? That's honestly how it felt.

And I was one of those white boys. So I feel comfortable saying that. And before, but before we leave, there is one important thing. The people have been asking for it. So I have to, I have to bring this.

You guys are our foremost thinkers on movies, correct? Not true, but okay. May has not been great. Yeah. We've gone through May massacre. I think you guys, but okay. May has not been great. Yeah. We've gone through May Massacre. I think you guys have to talk to your people.

All right? I no longer trust the critics. The critics are like, the movies are back. They're like the fall guy. Anyone but you. We have to, you have to go.

And I'm like. Take my hand. Take my hand. You can't. Take my hand. Take my hand. You cannot come on the big picture and hate on the fall guy. I haven't seen it yet. Okay, then what are we doing? Because I don't trust. Because here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Give me the hand back. Give me the hand back. Okay. That's okay. Anyone but you is not a good movie. And you could hear that on the big picture. I agree with you.

I'm not saying. This is more so your people though. Yeah. Well, you got to adjust your algorithms like I did. And then. I'm the most controversial cultural critic. That's true. I have to stay plugged in.

Then you got to come with me to see The Fall Guy. We saw it at Landmark. I refuse. Why? It's coming to VOD. Why would I? It. I refuse. Why? It's coming to VOD. Why would I? It's a whole other thing. It's coming to VOD.

But you guys. That's not on us. Can I just explain this very briefly? This is a snake eating its tail thing. A lot of people were surprised to see that The Fall Guy, the welcome to summer blockbuster, came to VOD in 17 days. The reason it did that is because it didn't make

$50 million in its opening weekend. If it did, it could have been 30 days, maybe even more. But people were coming out of the screenings for that being like, guys, Ryan Reynolds is our movie god. Ryan Gosling. Ryan Gosling, yeah. That was me coming at it. Guys, Ryan Reynolds is me.

Sorry, Gosling is so much better. They weren't, though. They weren't. I think that that's a movie that people like but don't love, that they want it to be better than it is. I liked it, didn't love it. I think Amanda liked it

more than I did. I had a great time. Would you have told me to go see it? If it came out on August 1st, you'd be like, that is a darn good movie. Charles, you came to see

If with me at 10.50 in the morning. I'm a card-carrying member of the Dob Mob. I was just like, I need to... I had fun. I was just like, I need to... I had fun. I had fun too, but me going solo to Landmark Pasadena to see Fall Guide?

I think that sounds like a wonderful Saturday afternoon. We were just talking about just the freedom in your schedule. You can sleep when you want and eat when you want and see movies when you want. But the Midnight Boys are getting very, as Van quoted yesterday in our group chat, he says, Charles, you need to stop whoring and gallivanting throughout LA and come to these screenings. Because I couldn't see Furiosa with them. Yeah.

Because I'm like, I have things going on. Right. You know, the shotties of Pasadena, they want to be. I have to tell you, it took me an hour and a half to get home from the Furiosa screening, so you made a good decision. I'm just saying that I don't trust the movie critics anymore because you're like, you guys got to see the movies. You are on to something, which is I am guilty of this as much, if not more than anyone, which is that I need movies to not go away. I need them to stick

around and I need them to stick around in movie theaters. And I would say this year, even more so than the pandemic, people who work in Hollywood are like, this is not going well. Like, there's real fear that it's going to go away. Now, you know, survive until 25

is something that everybody is saying. It's going to be fine next year. Everything will be okay. The slates are going to be stronger, et cetera, et cetera. But there's real fear. Do we have another

Dune part? Like, do we have something where it's like, I could go to my friends and be like, no, like, get your ass to like an IMAX. I mean, Deadpool and Wolverine

is going to be huge. It's going to be huge. No, it's going to be huge but I don't know if that's going to be like... Can we all agree that it's great? Yeah, where it's like

Barbie Oppenheimer, I think it also kind of redirected people to be like, I want that experience every single time I go to the movies and Dune helped and everything else is I'm like, it want that experience every single time I go to the movies. And Dune helped.

And everything else is, I'm like, it's not going to give you this. I mean, we got Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. Yeah. Do you know about this? What? Sean's most anticipated movie of 2024. No, no.

Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice. Don't be rude. Wait, really? He went to Las Vegas. He went to CinemaCon. He met with all of your people. And then he texted me and chris and he was just like beetlejuice beetlejuice the movie of 2024 are you guys hearing this i'm hearing it this that's the

problem see fantasy fantasy's too deep in the pocket of big movie theater yeah you know what i mean and it's like dobs i have to be honest keep like keep him like contained like he's do you really think this is an issue do you really think she's not keeping me contained because sometimes it's like when you and chris get together it's just like it is true it's it's two bros just being like and then we saw a weird horror movie but that's nice too that that has its audience you're describing something everyone loves yeah you know um if you hadn't led with the fall guy i would have i would have been with you you know you know that's that's a note for you to take all right that's your

framing yeah sure it's been it's been a tough year i think okay i want to say two things about this one it could be gladiator 2 oh yeah i could see i could see gladiator 2 being a double whammy. Because Gladiator 2, Ridley Scott's back. It's been a complicated 10 years. I'm still riding with my guy. Denzel Washington. Denzel Washington. Paul Mescal's in that one.

And Paul Mescal. Mescal's like, he's the stock I have on him. So, Mescal can go up. Plus, we get Denzel in a Gladiator movie. That's the only thing I think I see on the schedule where I'm like this could bring us all together yeah it's been really shaky um yeah I'm a big supporter but I don't know if I can I think that you should get to have fun when you're 83 years old and you can't get to your house because of a raid next door you know I generally

agree did you see those photos no that was tough he lives next door to Diddy oh yes Did you see those photos? No. That was tough. He lives next door to Diddy. Oh, yes, I did see those. Not ideal. Yeah, it was not good. That story keeps getting worse and worse. The other thing, and this is maybe a little bit outside of your interest set, but since 2018, at least one movie that has premiered at Cannes has been nominated for Best Picture, and often two or three. And I was looking at Cannes this weekend, and I was like, I don't think any of these movies are Best Picture nominees. Yeah.

I mean, it is a shaky time. You're right. You're right that in general, it's like they're few and far between the actual hits, the fun stuff. We got to take the fun where we can see it. Challengers. Not every in the world has seen it. That was great.

Great movie. You didn't like it? That's fine. Did you see it in a theater or did you see it. Challengers. Not everyone in the world has seen it. That was great. Great movie. You didn't like it? All right, that's fine. Did you see it in a theater or did you see it at home? I saw it in a theater with my editor, Justin Sales, and like friends.

We all walked out of the movie being like, yo, what the fuck happened? And here's the thing. I liked it. I gave it a three and a half on Letterboxd in the car with Justin

and he's like, change it now. That's not a three and a half and i'm like i had a good time wow really i and also here's the thing with challengers it was kind of like there was enough people in there there were like the meme cheers there was like the oh yeah but there was not the rowdiness that i was just like everybody's like yo people love this and i was like my theater was kind of like, what the fuck is happening?

Yeah. That's an interesting thing for us to continue to explore because Luca Guadagnino is an arthouse filmmaker and not a mainstream filmmaker, but he made a mainstream movie. And so I think there's

a set of expectations in that movie that people are not getting that seems to be flummoxing them. Nevertheless. I was entertained, but it was, was entertained but it

was as i called i was like this is a saturday afternoon tnt movie that people are acting like is a piece of high art uh yes i think that's right actually but but i love saturday afternoon tnt right that's why i liked it but people were like they're the movie was like yo this is going to change how you think of cinema i was like no it's just kind of goofy sports melodrama but that's kind of the point but like but using actually it's an interesting contrast to if where it's like we have all of the tools we have trent resner we have luca guadagnino we have this playwrights screenplay we have zendaya the biggest star in the world and they made something that is like very goofy and high energy and unique that I thought worked really, really well. Then you have if, and that didn't. Yeah.

Um, but, but we circle back, you know what all of these movies have in common, the power of storytelling and imagination. And I think that's, that's a great place. And that's what John Krasinski taught us.

The mind of John Krasinski. So there's talk about a home and home with the Midnight Boys for Deadpool and Wolverine. It's been discussed. It's come up with Van. I think it would be fun.

I'm a little nervous going into the Thunderdome with you guys. Amanda's not nervous. No, I think I will be informed and I think

your listeners will appreciate it. Here on the Midnight Boys, we're throwing down the gauntlet, okay? I'm really, really, really proud of my Ringerverse family. Van, Mal, Joanna came in here, wrecked y'all. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. What you misunderstand is that the fans of our podcast hate us.

So, actually, I think maybe you could relate to that a little bit. Oh, trust me. I have people in my normal life being like, hey, man, you got the people upset. And I'm just like, that's what it's about. That's what it's about. If you guys just want to admit the hierarchy of power at the Ringerverse is changing, the Midnight Boys are leading that charge.

Yes. So, you guys are welcomed into the Thunderdome at any time dobs i will never have anything to say about you negative you are just like i think that i will bring a unique viewpoint to the to deadpool and wolverine and the reappearance of electra? Perhaps. We don't know. That's unconfirmed. I want the best for Jennifer Garner. Okay. Are you more of a Deadpool or more of a Wolverine, you think?

Wolverine. It's Wolverine of times a million. Okay, I saw Logan. You're just like very grouchy. You have very sharp nails. Yeah. You know, good quips. I think this is a Knox movie.

I think if you show Knox, Oh, hell yeah. Deadpool and Wolverine, you are going to unlock something just very powerful in that child. Can I bring Knox as my plus one to Deadpool and Wolverine? Sure. That would be incredible. That would be amazing childcare for me.

So I will be at the beach while you do that, and I wish you the best. Okay. I think we had talked about maybe doing Inside Out 2 with you as well. I don't know if you're still interested in that. Inside Out 2, I am very excited

because while I don't have children or emotions anymore, I do love watching children's entertainment that are like, guys, anxiety. What's up with that? It's true.

Okay, Charles, thank you very much for being here. Thank you for shitting on these films with us. Thanks to Corey McConnell on the video tip. Thanks to Bobby Wagner, our producer for this episode. Shout out, Bob.

Later this week, another big movie. Will it live up to our expectations? Furiosa, a Mad Max saga. Amanda and I will discuss it. We'll see you then. Thank you.