The Big Picture - Movie Theaters Are Reopening. Is America Ready? Plus: RZA!

Episode Date: August 21, 2020

In 44 states around the country, movie theaters will reopen their doors this weekend for the release of the Russell Crowe thriller 'Unhinged,' a controversial decision by the major theater chains. Amanda and Sean talk about the ramifications of the decision, what it means for the release of Christopher Nolan's long-awaited 'Tenet,' and whether society has officially acclimated to at-home viewing (2:47). Then, Sean is joined by Wu-Tang Clan founder and filmmaker RZA to talk about his new movie 'Cut Throat City' (51:18). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: RZA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, everybody expects us to have an anime podcast. Micah Peters, Justin Charity, at long last, are they podcasting once again about anime? No. I'm Justin Charity. And I'm Micah Peters. Honestly, this podcast might turn out to be like the Eddie Murphy, Martin Lawrence movie Life, except neither of us is in prison and in fact we're not even taping in the same location but we will be talking a lot about the millennial life you know

music video games strange stuff from the dark corners of the internet that piques our interest people think this is gonna be oh a little topic a oh what's topic b oh a little you A. Oh, what's topic B? Oh, a little, you know, chit chat. No. Every time you tune into this podcast, we are going to lock you into a room for 45 minutes and we are going to do criticism. We are going to get to the bottom of every Scooby-Doo mystery that the discourse produces for us each week. Mark my words. Man, that was a lot. But anyway, we are excited about it. We are excited. We're excited.

We're super excited. I'm Justin Charity. And I'm Micah Peters. And this is Sound Only. We're back on August 11th. Catch us on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's go. Tiger's go. I'm Sean Fennessy.

I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the return of movies to their rightful home. Maybe. One of the films opening this weekend is a New Orleans-set crime thriller called Cutthroat City,

directed by none other than The Abbott, a.k.a. Bobby Digital, a.k.a. The RZA. I talked to The RZA about making movies, The Wu-Tang Clan and The Samurai Classics. He's been shown as kids in quarantine. I hope you will stick around for that. But Amanda and I are here to talk about something that,

well, we've been talking about for months now, and we have not really been able to imagine in our mind's eye, but it's happening. Movie theaters are reopening this weekend, August 21st. Season of Return, not just of Cutthroat City, but a new movie called Unhinged, starring Russell Crowe. Amanda, we're going to talk about all of the complex issues surrounding the reopening of movie theaters, but just in general, will you be seeing the movie Unhinged this weekend in a movie theater? I will not because I live in Los Angeles and I am therefore not able to go see

Unhinged in movie theaters. So I've seen the movie Unhinged. I did not see it in a movie theater. I was able to see a screening of the movie in my home and it was fine. It was your typical exploitation thriller in the grand tradition of Duel or The Hitcher or Breakdown. I was thinking a lot of Breakdown. Do you remember that movie? Kurt Russell, Kathleen Quinlan, they're being chased by a truck driver played by JT Walsh, was kind of a grimy 90s thriller. Pretty fun movie.

It's not, Broke Down Palace is the one with Claire Danes, right? Also in the 90s? Similarly harrowing, but a completely different story. Okay, all right, continue. So Unhinged is, it's okay, it's fine. I think that the decision to

make this the movie and Solstice Studios, the studio behind the movie that funded the film, has decided to reopen movie theaters with this movie is a savvy move on their part, if not the part of the American people, because it's going to just draw more attention to a movie that is, you know, just perfectly adequate if you like a movie like this, but in many ways already feels like a VOD movie. So there's some irony in making this the movie that reopens theaters, but putting Unhinged in theaters, putting Cutthroat City in theaters, putting these movies out into the world obviously sets the table for a lot to come over the course of the next few weeks. So Russell Crowe in promoting the film had some choice words, I would say for the American public. Did you, did you happen to watch his PSA about checking out the movie unhinged?

I did because you sent it to me at like, you know, 1130 at night. And so the next morning I clicked on it. I think I watched this at like 7 20 AM, you know, when you reach for the phone and you don't even know what you're clicking. And it's like two inches from my face because I can't see. And then it's just Russell Crowe growling at me about like being man enough to go see Unhinged in movie theaters or something. Let's hear what Russell had to say and think about Amanda at 7.20 in the morning. There is a catalyst at the heart of the cinema experience, a social contract, a binding dynamic power that lifts the cinematic experience into a realm of intimate connection between the audience and the screen

and the stars in the heavens beyond. They say. But who are they? Some conceited, pretentious fuckwads who try to piss in your pocket and tell you it's raining? Well fuck that shit. I got a movie coming out. It's called Unhinged. I'm not fucking with you.

It's called Unhinged. And it's gonna be in in cinemas off you go okay Amanda so we got to talk about whether or not whether Unhinged is a good movie or not whether or not this is safe

there this is a serious conversation because I think you and I have spoken at length over the last few months about how much we love movie theaters the magic of movie theaters is not just a hokey thing to say,

but something that we actually believe in. And nevertheless, there have been 5.5 million cases of the coronavirus in the United States, and there have been more than 170,000 deaths. On Tuesday, there were 44,000 new cases reported and 1,400 deaths just in this country. And the numbers are declining, but not radically. And so now we're going to go into a movie theater. How are you feeling about that? I feel very concerned on a number of levels. We'll talk later about this, but you and I won't be going to movie theaters as we understand it currently because we both live in Los Angeles and the state of California has not yet given the clearance to open movie theaters and has not really signaled when they will. So I think you and I feel anxiety

on a couple of levels because number one, we love movies and miss movie theaters. And number two, we are considerate. It is our job to see movies. And also we're type A people who don't like to not be doing our jobs to the extent of our abilities. And so we don't know how to plan for that aspect of seeing it. And then on top of all of that, it really does not to me personally. And I guess we're going to have to couch all of this in terms of personal opinions and in terms of not being epidemiologists, which I think is really important because there are a lot of people who are out here talking about safety and standards and what is allowable for the public and what is not allowable for the public who do not have the medical background to be making these distinctions. And that's one of the things that drives me insane.

So I am just one person making a decision for myself. It does not seem safe to me. And it seems to be a really unnecessary risk compared to the reward and also the alternatives that are available to us in terms of watching movies. And I think, you know, I've said this before, and I'm not the only person who's saying it. You know, we'll talk about Governor Andrew Cuomo

of New York's recent press conference where he kind of said the same thing of, you are doing a higher risk activity in a time and in a setting where there are alternatives. You can watch a movie at home. We have the technology. We actually, we have the technology and it's not ideal and I don't like it and I would love to go back to movie theaters. So I feel really personally anxious. Yeah, it's complex because there are, upsides is perhaps not the right word,

but there are some good things that would come out of movie theaters reopening. One is that a lot of people will be able to go back to work. You know, more than 100,000 people were furloughed or laid off or unable to work during this period. So that's a good thing. So those people get their jobs back and their jobs are probably going to change a little bit, but they'll at least be working. That's incredibly important. And that's also like the first wave. Those are the actual people who are employed in movie theaters. And there has obviously also been a backlog of films being released and then development, which has both release concerns and obviously production concerns. But this affects an entire industry of people who rely on these movies being released in movie theaters to have a job. And that's really important. Yeah. And as you pointed out, we live in California, so we can't see a movie unless we go to a drive-in. At least that's the case right now. Maybe that will change before Tenet opens on September 3rd. We'll have to wait and see what shakes out there. But in 43 states,

maybe even 44, it's a little bit unclear on if the 44th will be a go. Theaters are opening. AMC and Regal, the two biggest movie theater chains, are reopening on the 20th and the 21st. And there is some expectation that they know what they're doing and that they have guidelines here that people will follow. So you and I can make individual decisions

about our own liberty and our own health. A lot of other people are going to decide that they want to see Unhinged or they want to see, you know, next week, The New Mutants, perhaps. And so in order to do so, you'll have to wear a mask. There will be hand sanitizer everywhere.

Employees will be tested regularly. They'll treat this the same way they're treating the LA Rams on Hard Knocks, where you just see, I assume that there are going to be booths that people can be checked into on an ongoing basis. And there's limited theater occupancy.

But what that means in every state is complicated because the theater occupancy, which indicates, you know, will someone be sitting next to you? Will someone be sitting behind you in front of you? I don't, I personally, as I've said before, I don't want anybody sitting near me in a movie theater when we don't have a pandemic going on. Uh, cause I am germ phobic and a weirdo. So because of that, I I'm having a hard time visualizing what level of comfort I would have say in a 70% capacity movie theater right now. And some states will have between 90 and 70% capacity. Others will have between 40 and 50. Others might even have 30. And I think that's going to impact

significantly the movie watching experience, because that's kind of what we're talking about here, is we're talking about movies are a getaway. They're an escape. They're a way to think about the world in a different way. Maybe not the world that's happening all around you, but a world that you might be able to imagine or something that is more aspirational or escapist or perhaps more challenging or confusing or frustrating, but not the exact same thing that we are experiencing on a day-to-day basis. And if I'm worried about somebody coughing four seats down, that takes you out of the moment, doesn't it? Yes, of course. And I think I have found this even in small ways as the world, and again, I can really only speak to Los Angeles, has tried to reopen as it can. And every business and every

industry and really every person has a different interpretation of how that's how they want to handle that. But people are trying to kind of piece together what like new COVID life looks like. And I am a hugely anxious person. And I found that I can't, I often don't enjoy like the new reimagined experiences that are available because I'm constantly like, is this safe? Is, you know, am I far enough away from this person? Did I remember to put my mask on? Did, you know, did this person do X, Y, and Z?

There are just so many X factors that it obviously, it absolutely affects the experience. Yeah. And there's more that's going into that experience that is notable. For one, concessions are going to be open at these theater chains. And that means people will be taking their masks off to drink beverages, to eat food, thus essentially eliminating the utility of the masks, which is not ideal. And there's also been a lot of questions and there are a lot of people who are now air filter experts. That's one of one other category that I frankly just don't have a lot of understanding about in my very small life. I don't have to think about whether or not I have a MERV 13 air filter in my cooling system, but this is something that is a hot topic. Now, the AV club, to their credit,

called up a couple of epidemiologists and asked them their opinions about the idea of reopening movie theaters. And the results were not good. Here's what Dr. Anne W. Ramoyne said to the AV Club earlier this week. Short of renting out an entire theater, which is obviously not an option for most of us, there is no scenario in which going to a movie theater is a good idea. And her sentiments were echoed by Dr. Abdul El-Sayed,

who said, it's just about the last thing I do right now. So that's not what you want. If you are a movie studio or a movie theater chain that is already struggling with a lot of debt and doubt about the future of your business. And nevertheless, because these businesses need to, you know, they need to make money, they're opening. And so I think what we should talk about is kind of the idea of what will happen and what that could mean. And the thing that I've been thinking about a lot is, are there enough people that want this? I know people want Tenet, right?

I want Tenet. In fact, I'm going on vacation next week and I'm not going to be able to see Tenet when it opens. And frankly, it's driving me crazy. And that's absurd, but it's true. It's true though, whether you're going to be able to see it in two weeks because of where you live versus the threatened road trip that we have not yet planned. We can't get into Canada.

That's the problem. I know. I told you that. Okay. I understand. Anyway. Yeah. It's driving me crazy.

On the flip side, you may have heard that in California and in much of the country, we're having a heat wave right now. And I have just been thinking about how we used to go to the movie theaters for the air conditioning and how much part of me is just like, wow, I would in a non-COVID situation like go see Unhinged. I'd go see just about anything to be in a place that's not my house, that's cooler than my house right now. So I think there probably are a lot of people that are... anything to be in a place that's not my house that's cooler than my house right now so i think

there are probably are a lot of people that are and listen i understand it too i am so tired of being in this dumb house it is just there we only have one door my husband is just like walking behind me all of the time just like looking at my computer and then and then he grinds the coffee while we're watching the movies and like i can't hear the movie over our terrible old ac unit like this is not ideal i'm incredibly lucky and healthy and and like have a job and employed and it's not great okay so i i understand wanting to go to the movie theater god take me away from here but i but i just you know, so I think there are probably a lot of people who share that in some level. But how many people are weighing it with both COVID concerns and how people are evaluating those COVID concerns, I think, really does vary.

Or maybe it doesn't and we just don't know yet. And then I think there's also an economic element to this that, and like a behavioral and economic element of just people are now used to streaming and streaming, even if they're charging you $30 for, for Mulan, which Disney plus is, is cheaper. So are people going to want to spend a lot more money to do a slightly better, but also riskier version of a thing that they can do at home right now to see Russell Crowe growl at you? I don't know. Well, that November 3rd, November 4th Labor Day weekend,

which we'll talk about a little bit. Well, frankly, a lot. September 3rd and 4th. Excuse me. Right? I was like, did they delay Labor Day? God damn it. Given what's going on in the world, anything is possible.

But no, September 3rd and 4th, that weekend, which features three high-profile releases, Tenet, of course. I'm thinking of ending things. And what's the other one? Oh, Mulan, of course. Two of those are going to streaming services. And one of them is going into a movie theater. And all three of those movies are theoretically serving different audiences or are not exactly

the same kind of film. But it does seem like the past and the future. And it hurts to say that. But the idea that folks have a choice between Mulan and Tenet, and one option is staying home and one option is going out into the world. Every state is different. The case numbers in every state is different. The danger is going out into the world. You know, every state is different. The case numbers in every state is different. The danger is different all over the place.

But I thought Variety very smartly reported a recent survey in which people were asked these specific questions about whether or not they prefer to stay home and watch a movie or go to a movie theater during this experience. And nearly twice as many people said that they would wait the full 90 days to see a must-see movie at home than go to see it in a movie theater. That's not good. If you work for a movie theater company, it's frankly not good if you work for a studio that is dependent on the movie theater experience. And like you, you've been saying this for years since we started doing this show. Well, I was going to say, I think that that percentage is probably higher,

but it was already trending in that direction just because people get used to things. And we really like Netflix and streaming was just a sea change in how we watch things and how we consume them. And people are pretty adaptable. And I think probably that percentage has gone up because, again, I probably can only speak for myself. I found myself pretty adaptable to parts of the COVID experience. It's weird how much you're, how quickly your brain adjusts to the new normal. And the like, this is how we're doing things now. And I have all the existential concerns and I love to whine about, you know, only having my husband just being in

the same room all the time. It's just, it's been like a lot of months of us in the same room. Okay. But, but I also do think that there's a lizard part of my brain and a lot of people's brains. It's just like, this is how we release movies now. And this is how I watch things. And why would I introduce, especially the ease of use of it? This is an easier version to insert something that is more expensive and more difficult to achieve when you already are used to the easier version of the behavior. Yeah. I mean, to that point, in that survey, only 12% of people said they would definitely

see a movie in a theater first if there was a 90-day wait to watch it on VOD. 12%, that's a low, low number. 15%, they would probably watch it first in a theater. By contrast, 21%, they would probably wait to watch it at home and 23%, they would definitely wait. So the thing that's got me thinking about just from a creative perspective is, do we get different kinds of movies because of this? We've talked a little bit about kind of like the agglomerated algorithm Netflix movie where it's trying to hit a very clear audience. I've been thinking about it. I guess I can't talk about a couple of the movies that are coming out soon for embargo reasons, but I saw two movies that are coming out in September recently,

one of which was much more intimate and small, one of which was a little bit bigger and more grand, both of which were dealing with very big ideas. And the more intimate movie worked better. The smaller dialogue-driven, certainly not sitcom-y or television-like, but it was much more immersive. And the scope of the bigger movie I found harder to enjoy and appreciate and respect and admire because it was clearly designed for a big experience. And I'm, you know, I'm lucky to have a pretty nice home theater system, but I don't have like an 80 inch screen in my house.

I don't have some extravagant setup that completely recreates the home theater. So there's something in my head that makes me think, not just because of the way the production is happening right now with COVID, where the crews are going to be smaller and the stories might have to be a little bit more intimate, but more generally about what people want to see or what they get connected to. I wonder if it shrinks down. I wonder if we move on from the Ben-Hur, Ten Commandments, Titanic, Avatar, that kind of that mega sensational feeling of cinema, that thing that you can only get on a big screen,

if it just means that the medium shrinks. Yeah, I think it's a great question. I mean, the short answer is like, it definitely changes. Absolutely. And, and as we've talked, kind of the definition of a movie and the Netflix hybrid genres was already kind of happening. So there will be change. I think there's the, as you noted, the financial logistical reality of what kinds of movies can actually be made can you film on location can you do big stunts like you know i i wish i could remember the piece that was talking about um there will like kind of be fewer romances because it is hard to shoot certainly intimate scenes but even you know love scenes you're trying to minimize contact so that the actual like types of stories are changed by covid and then also obviously if you're putting less emphasis on theater release then you're probably spending less money to make a movie just because the economics of giant tentpole

movies rely on making a huge amount of money back at the box office. So I think all that probably changes though, how we don't know. The other thing that you mentioned about kind of how you responded to movies is something I'm weirdly more optimistic about, which I can't believe I'm saying because I'm the world's number one complainer about watching things at home. Get me a mug or something. But like, I do think that we probably could, like our brains could learn to watch blockbusters at home. It like, it'll probably take time, but I think, I believe in our ability.

At some point we're conditioned, you know, we've watched TV at home and like, and we watch reruns of, you know, older movies at home. And so you begin to expect like those types of entertainment and TV is usually, I mean, not in recent years, but traditionally more writer driven and in fewer number of spaces and, and slightly more domestic. So maybe we could get there, but whether there are the logistics and the,

and the money to get to a broader understanding of home cinema, I don't know. Well, this is kind of far afield from where I wanted our conversation to go. But you've got me thinking about something too, which is obviously essential to this show that we're making, which is, it's not just about the experience of watching the movie. It's about the discourse around a movie. It's about the conversation that comes up around something. And we're going to find ourselves in an interesting position here on the big picture, at the ringer, in general, anybody who kind of works in the movie industry or around the ancillary industries that support it and cover it. How do we have a conversation about Tenet?

What do we say to our friends and listeners of the show and the people in our lives normally tenant would be that would be a basically a talking point for you and i at friday night dinner for a week a week and a half maybe and it would we would dissect it you would have to listen to me go on angry rants even off mic about what he does or does not do well in his films christopher nolan and now you know, not everybody is seeing movies on their exact release date, but I think that a long stretch of time may go by for New York and California residents because neither of those states are likely to open their movie theaters anytime soon between when they can see Tenet and when they can't see Tenet.

And so, does that mean we're all going to be on Reddit reading about what happens in the movie and thus spoiling the experience the way that many people do say about horror movies? Or will people be going tenet celibate and trying to avoid spoilers for long, long stretches of time? I think that's very difficult in the internet age. I think it just it speaks more to the erosion of consensus and monoculture. And these aren't even necessarily complaints. I think that the erosion of monoculture has just created more opportunities for more artists to do the work that they want to do. But it does, it shrinks those big top experiences. And I don't know why I have such anxiety about that, but I do. I know why, because we don't know what we're going to do. And because there are going to

be people who can see this movie and who are going to cover it. And you and I will stay awake at night being like, what, like we're not doing what we're supposed to be doing and we're not a part of it. And I like that sucks for us though. I kind of honestly think that we, by both the nature of our profession and also like our screwed up personalities are, are the exception in that in terms of being like, Oh my God, I can't see this right this second. And then like make my definitive emergency podcast and also like yell at my friends over dinner about it and text other people and yell about it, which is like what we do and how we've built our lives and how we've made friendships, which I guess like send us a free therapy session. But I think there are a lot of people and particularly people who are not journalists

who are used to at this point just seeking out a big movie when they can see it. And then whether it's finding that Reddit feed or listening to our podcast or just being like, huh, cool movie and moving on. And I feel a loss in that as well, because it is so fun when you have those big moments where everyone is just freaking out about something at the same time. It's a sense of community, really. And I think we have all felt in different ways, like the loss of community in actually going to the movie theater and in being able to talk about the same things. And I don't know how you fix that one long term, though, you know, I think hopefully, with the exception of Tenet, which is this weird, like half the country will be able to see it and half won't. And then there's like a everyone,'s an envy and a an anxiety around not having been able to see it but for the most part i think movies will be released and you find the ones that you like and you hopefully find the other people who also like them and you talk about them

and maybe it means i won't have to see joker anymore i mean you mean like again or just something that resembles yeah yeah yeah something that resembles joker i won't have to see Joker anymore. I mean, you mean like again, or just something that resembles Joker? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something that resembles Joker. I won't be seeing actual Joker again. But you know what I mean? Like, maybe it means that all of the, I won't say garbage. I know there are people who felt like really moved by it or whatever. Great cinematography, great dancing, A plus.

But, you know, the things that you, quote, have to see because some people care that I just really don't care and enjoy, maybe there's less of that. Well, so to the point you're making, which I think is right on the money about who needs to see something when and whether that even matters, it was actually Andrew Cuomo who I thought put it best when he made his speech that you mentioned earlier in the episode, which is, he said on Tuesday, I think, quote, I am sure there is a whole group of people who say I cannot live without going to the movies. But on a relative risk scale, a movie theater is less essential and poses a high risk. It is congregant. It is one ventilation system. You are seated there for a long period of time. Even if you are at 50% capacity with one or

two seats between the two of you, this is a risk situation and movies are not that high on the list of essentials. Now, I think we could quibble about whether or not, say, gyms are high on the list of essentials as well, and New York is opening their gyms. There are some people who are saying, once again, Andrew Cuomo talking out of both sides of his mouth or whatever criticism they might have for him. He's not our governor. I'm not as keyed into what's going on with Cuomo these days, but it does point out something that is just very specific, which is you just don't need this. Not only do you not need this because we have streaming at home, but you don't need this because it's just a movie ultimately.

And as much as it's tearing me up that I don't get to be a part of the tenant conversation, it's fucking fine. Like I'm going to be fine. It's not a big deal. We're all going to go on with our lives. And, you know, also the point about being able to relate to people about a movie there, we have had a couple of examples of that since we've been doing this, this shelter in place thing. Like Palm Springs, that was a, that was an experience where I was like, everybody that I talked to, first of all, almost everybody I talked to liked that movie and it made them feel good.

And, and sec, and secondly, it did seem like a community rose up around the movie. And it did all the great things that Tenet will do in terms of talking about theories and what does it all mean. But it also, it was a bomb for people. You know, it made people calm down and just have an escape for 95 minutes. And that's something that we look for in both directions. So I don't think that that's something that we look for in both directions. So I don't think that that's going away forever. I think it's just the everything that was planned for the next two years now feels like it has radically changed. But in general, like storytelling with moving

images is probably going to be fine, right? Yeah. I mean, we have more storytelling with moving images than ever before. And some of it I don't even understand. And that's I mean, I'm not even talking about movies now. Like, though, this is maybe a good time to preview a conversation that we're going to have in the next couple of weeks

with the watch of what is a movie and what is a TV show and what is just a TikTok. But it'll be fine. You and I may not get to see Tenet for like a month. And I think we're just going to have to start

like some breathing rituals or something. But you know, that'll be fine too. What's the farthest you would drive to see Tenet? Well, are we driving to a drive-in or are we driving to a theater? A theater. If it's planned at a drive-in in California, we're going. We're going and we're talking about it on the podcast. You know, we talked a little bit about this, but like I'm not going to a theater in the next month for like personal reasons. I I'm fine. I'm healthy.

My family's healthy, but like I have some other commitments where I just, I can't take on the risk and that's for me. And that's because I would be exposing other people. And like Andrew Cuomo said, it's just like a movie's not worth it, even though it's technically my job. What if you could do with what Dr. Ramon suggested, which is that the big picture could rent out a movie theater? Me and you and WAGS are going to the movies and that's it. If you trust WAGS, I don't know if you do. You don't have to say so on the mic or not. I trust WAGS. We might do tests before, but I do. I trust both of you. So we would be driving to an open theater that is just the three of us.

Are you driving the whole time? I don't know if we're in the same car. Oh, but we're going to be in the same theater. So do I have to drive? I can't drive very far. You know that about me. Like two to three hours max. I'm done. My husband and I drove to drive? I can't drive very far. You know that about me. I like two to three hours max. I'm done. We just, my husband and I drove to Northern California last week.

He drove the whole way. God bless him. And then I slandered him on this podcast for sharing a room with me. So if it's just me driving alone, like Santa Barbara, like I'll go watch it at Harry. I'll watch it at Harry and Megan's new house. If someone else is driving, I'll go for a while. I think we're going to have to get out of the state of California. So Santa Barbara is not going to work for us.

It's funny. I'm going to Arizona in a week for a short vacation. And that is one of the six states that is also not opening its movie theaters. So I think you're right. It's going to be very difficult for us to see this movie unless Warner Brothers or an industrious person has an opportunity to allow us to see it, which, you know, as long as those are within legal terms,

we're willing to participate. But Tenet actually isn't the next movie that's opening. There's, there's a couple of movies that are opening in on August 28th and they're, they're both kind of fascinating topics to me, these next two movies that are coming out. So one of them is bill and Ted face the music bill and Ted face the music. For those of you who are not familiar with bill and Ted is the third film in the Bill and Ted series, which is essentially a buddy

comedy, a time-traveling buddy comedy starring our beloved Keanu Reeves and our pal Alex Winter. I spoke to Keanu and Alex the other day, actually, for this podcast. You can hear it next week. Very fun movie. I think people are going to love it if they love Bill and Ted movies. And Bill and Ted Face the Music will be in theaters, and it will also be available at home. So if you want to pay a premium video on-dem demand price for the movie, you can watch it at home. And if you like those movies, I would encourage you to do that. It's a fun movie. There's another movie that is also coming into theaters called The New Mutants, which has become the stalking horse, the punching bag, the totem of conversation about studio

filmmaking over the last three years. What do you want to say about The New Mut horse, the punching bag, the totem of conversation about studio filmmaking over the last three years. What do you want to say about The New Mutants, Amanda? I don't want to say anything. I want to ask you a question, which is what is The New Mutants about? Okay. I have made many jokes about The New Mutants, and I know what it is as a pop cultural concept. But honestly, gun to my head, I couldn't tell you what it's about. I'm glad you asked. They're mutants and they're new. There's nothing I'd like to honestly, gun to my head, I couldn't tell you what it's about. I'm glad you asked.

They're mutants and they're new. There's nothing I'd like to do more. They're new, yes. So The New Mutants is a spinoff of the Fox X-Men series of films and the pitch on it, and the film was written and directed by Josh Boone, who I believe is the director of The Fault in Our Stars.

It is essentially a horror, haunted house, mental institution, mutant movie in which six teenagers who have mutant powers are stuck quarantined. One might say in a situation in which they have to kind of cope with their powers and potentially break out of this institution. That's my understanding of the rough sketch.

I may be getting that wrong. The truth is this movie had, I think was filmed in 2017. It was supposed to be released five different times over the last two years. It's finally coming to movie theaters. And I've said before on the show, it can't go straight to HBO max or Disney plus because it has a guaranteed theatrical release stipulated in the contracts of the people who made it. So it's going to theaters and this is a movie I want to see in some ways., it's like going to see the sixth, seventh, eighth, and ninth inning of a blowout baseball game because Fox doesn't own the X-Men anymore. Disney owns the X-Men. So no matter what happens in this movie, it's not really going to matter to the long-term continuity of the

storytelling. In fact, they're probably going to just completely reboot X-Men movies with the new MCU. They're probably going to cast new actors the same way that they did with Spider-Man. They're going to incorporate their own version of that story under the Disney umbrella. So this is, it's an orphan. This is a movie that is relaunching a story that is never really going to be able to get off the ground. So it's a real curiosity in movie history. And for that reason, I'm kind of fascinated by it. In addition to just being a child of the X-Men and being interested in pretty much any version of that story as complicated and messy as all of that stuff has been over the last 20 years. And yet I live in California, so I won't be able to see it, which is really frustrating because I'm theoretically one of those people that would go and check it out and pay 20 bucks to see it in a movie theater. So it's tricky. There was an interview with Josh Boone recently in which he said, I would say some not terribly wise things. He was asked about the idea of going to theaters to see this movie. And he said, I do think people should be going to the movies. If they can go

to a house party with 700 people without masks on, they can put on a mask and go to a movie and maybe get their rocks off in a more productive way. But I think it brings people together, even if they're socially distanced. And I think that as long as they're following the rules, they're supposed to be following it's safer than an airplane or a restaurant. I don't know if that's true. Is it safer than an airplane or a restaurant? How would one know that? This is one of my just absolutely not. It's like, shame on you. All the people who are out here saying that the industry that they profit from is safer from any other industry without having any scientific degrees,

it's a no from me. Just absolutely not. You don't know. I agree. I don't really know what the upside of that is. I don't think you want to con people into going to see your movie for the furtherance of your career. That's not good. That's just not something that I would recommend for anybody. So we'll see what happens with the New Mutants and with Bill and Ted Face the Music. I think that on the other hand, one of the things

that seems to be important here is box office reporting and the idea that if a movie does good business after the movie theaters open, this isn't like, say, Major League Baseball, where when you play a game and then you find out that eight members of a team have tested positive for COVID, you know that you should shut those games down, that that team should not be playing and they should take a pause. And MLB has obviously been going through quite a trial of dealing with this virus. The NBA, on the other hand, built this bubble system, right? So no one is testing positive in the NBA. It seems like, knock wood, they've done an excellent job of managing their circumstances. Movie theaters are not governed in the same way. They're independent businesses that are making individual choices and they're following state mandated guidelines. But if 150 people get COVID from going to a movie,

we're probably not going to be able to confirm that that's where they got COVID from. And I don't know what the liability there is in terms of being able to sue the theater chain or sue the state that allowed the theater chain to reopen or sue the studio for ramming a release date down people's throats. I really can't get a sense of like, how do you reckon with any of the outcomes that will come from people starting to go back into movie theaters? What do you think

we're going to do as a society to cope with that? I hadn't even thought about liability, which good job you. I have to assume that none of these businesses would be able to open without having their liability covered in some way. I mean, that's just the nature of capitalism and the legal industry in this country. But I have just assumed that it would be, you know, we've seen some very unfortunate situations at some like universities in these past couple weeks of trying to open and do in-person classes. then there are pretty quickly uh outbreaks at the universities and they switch back to online um teaching and i've assumed that at some point that's going to happen um that and i my assumption again has been that it would be a local or state authority just removing the ability for movie

theaters to be open because that seems to so far have been the only way. Because as you pointed out, otherwise they're businesses and they do have to make money. And I, again, I'm not rooting for that because number one, I don't want anyone to get sick. And number two, because a lot of people's jobs are on the line and that's a really big deal. That's what feels so unresolvable about this particular situation is that it doesn't seem wise, but also there's just no good solution for what is just a major financial crisis for an industry that we care about and that a lot of people rely on. Yeah. financial crisis for an industry that we care about and that a lot of people rely on. Yeah, and the three films

that we've talked about so far in The New Mutants and Bill & Ted Face the Music and Unhinged are ultimately pretty small releases. You know, The New Mutants

is a tax write-off at this point. Bill & Ted Face the Music is getting a PVOD release and Unhinged is a stunt from a small studio to draw attention

to itself. And that's, you know, no criticism of filmmakers, but the studio has made a choice there. Tenet is notable for a few reasons. One, it's obviously a major studio. Two, it's the signature filmmaker of our generation. Three, there's no other movies really scheduled after Tenet for like a month. And that is indicative of something. That is indicative of essentially

creating a buffer to see how the public reacts, to see what kind of potential coronavirus ramifications there are with going back into movie theaters. And I guess it's even possible that tenant moves off of September 3rd. We don't even know. We've seen the release date move three or four times now. So I'm not necessarily completely ruling that out. But in the event that things don't go well, we might find that some places will say movie theaters are closed through the end of the year. You know, we may find that, you know, you've seen, for example, Lionsgate decided to move Antebellum entirely to premium video on demand out of the movie theater experience. And that was a movie, you know, that's a movie that might've made sense in the summer. It might've made sense maybe around Halloween season. It has horror

elements to it. I mean, they've just decided we're going to give this to people at home. And there are other movies that are, you know, moving their dates back and moving them around. And we're trying to anticipate hopefully like a fun Oscar season and a fall season full of some of our favorite filmmakers, which we'll talk about very shortly. But I'm not convinced that this all doesn't start toppling over again once we get into the middle of September, because there's not really any big releases planned for September 11th or 18th or any of those other weeks. And that seems very purposeful, very strategic, don't you think? Yes. I didn't realize it until you were pointing

this out, but I have just in my head been operating on the assumption that every other movie we're talking about in the rest of this podcast that we will be seeing at home because of what you said, like Tenet has made such a big deal about being the movie that opens movie theaters, but there is nothing else scheduled. And many of the other studios have started exploring whether it's, you know, selling off their assets to Netflix to save money or going PVOD to find ways to put some of their schedule on streaming for the fall because they're kind of like accepting the reality. And so I have just been operating on that's how we'll see all these movies. And I'm okay with it.

I've even made like a little bit of peace with it. Me too. So I think the only two studios that we've really been talking about here that are making these choices are Disney and Warner Brothers. So Disney's next release, even though Mulan is going straight to Disney Plus

for $29.99, as you said, on September 4th, is September 18th, The Kingsman. The Kingsman movie's prequel, I believe, is supposed to be in theaters on September 18th. We'll see if that sticks. I have no idea if that's going to stick. And then after that, the next truly big mega movie release is October 2nd. It's Wonder Woman 1984.

And that kicks off the month of Amanda. The movie Month of Amanda truly begins in October because then we get a whole bunch of other movies that you care about. Yes. Can I read them? Please. Oh, great. So there is obviously the trailer debuted this week. The Sophia Coppola directed movie on the rocks starring Bill Murray and Rashida Jones.

And I have been living for that all year. And that's pretty exciting for me personally. And for other people, I don't have the only claim to Sophia. I have a strong-ish claim. I did on vacation go to the Francis Ford Coppola estate and I did, I sent Sean a picture and then I bought a bottle of Sophia Rose that's sitting over there. And anyway, very important to me looking forward to this film. There is also obviously another trailer released this week. Death on the Nile. The latest in the Hercule Poirot extended universe brought to you by Kenneth Branagh.

Some fans will know that I have some concerns about the continuity between Murder on the Orient Express and Death on the Nile and whether Hercule Poirot will be able to solve the murder because he can't be in two places at one time but it's okay they'll figure it out i have let me interrupt you for one second yeah i just i didn't tell you this but i have a very short anecdote to share with you which is that okay during quarantine eileen and i watched the original death on the nile um yeah we decided to get into the you know more of the agatha christie films that you were, you've recommended on the show a few times.

And I fell asleep. I fell asleep in the middle of it. I'm sorry. I didn't finish it. It was actually pretty good. And I was enjoying it. Incredible cast. Peter Ustinov, Angela Lansbury.

Who else is in it? David Niven. Gang of great actors and actresses. Mia Farrow. Yeah. Yeah. It's an incredible cast and pretty fun movie but also I was tired so I fell asleep. I'll finish it at some point

before Branagh gets his shot. Do you think you know who did it? Eileen told me already unfortunately. Oh God. Okay. She loved it.

Yeah. It's really good. It is really good but it also means that I feel like I don't need to see this Kenneth Branagh version. I don't think

the Kenneth Branagh version will be as good. Even the trailer, it just, it seems like a real like water tank for the boat situation. And that's not great, you know, because part of the Death on the Nile

is that it is on location. They're filming in Egypt and that's pretty remarkable. Whatever, I'll still watch it and enjoy it. Remember when we went to like Pasadena to see the, we went on opening night of the Kenneth Branagh

murder on the Orient Express in Pasadena to see that movie. And it was us and like the over 80 crowd. Yeah. And then they followed us to Houston's where we had dinner and discussed the plot machinations of that adaptation, which was perfectly fine. I will say one of the cool things about the, the Branagh Hercule Poirot movies is he's treating them the way that Irwin Allen treated disaster

movies in the 70s, where he's just like, let me just get the best cast of super talented, well-known actors and really hot young actors and actresses to be in my cast. So in this movie, Branagh obviously self-aggrandizingly playing Poirot, the smartest man in the universe. And then you've got Annette Bening, Russell Brand, Ali Fazal, Gal Gadot, Armie Hammer, Rose Leslie, Emma Mackey, Letitia Wright, Sophie Okonido. Pretty good. I'm thrilled. What else is coming in October? So obviously, the trial of the Chicago seven Sorkin season.

It's back. I can't wait. So Sophia Sorkin and death on the Nile is kind of like the, and plus wonder woman, which is, you know, my favorite of the superhero blockbuster experiences. That's kind of like the,

the Amanda core. But then there is one other October movie that I am very excited about, but I don't want to take ownership of it. It can be yours, Sean. Would you like to share? Sure. This movie is not yet dated, though we've been told repeatedly that it's coming in October. The movie is called Manc. It's directed by David Fincher. I can't wait. I just can't wait. We're going to spend a lot of time talking about Fincher on this pod. After five months of inventing themes and making up games and talking about all kinds of ridiculous stuff. We're going to get to talk about real movies again. Very excited to talk about Wonder

Woman. Very excited to talk about The Trial of Chicago 7. Very excited to talk about On the Rocks. On the Rocks in particular feels to be scraping at perhaps a moment in our lives as sort of like, you know, that 35 to 40, that period of time. I really, the number of times that I've thought about that Bill Murray line from the trailer of time? I really, the number of times that I've thought about that Bill Murray line from the trailer, if they say a woman is most beautiful from the, or a woman is most beautiful from the ages of 35 to 39, I've thought about that a lot personally

in the last two days. I suspect we'll be reckoning with the ideas in that movie. But I'm obviously most excited for Mank. And we're now, I mean, probably within two months, maybe two and a half months. I don't know exactly when it's coming out, but it's definitely coming out this year. And that's great. And when you start to look at all these movies together, and frankly, most of them are on

streaming services. You know, On the Rocks is going to be available on Apple TV+. The Trial of the Chicago 7, as you pointed out before, that was a Paramount movie that was acquired by Netflix and is coming straight to Netflix. Mank is coming straight to Netflix. We didn't even mention there's a remake of Alfred Hitchcock's Rebecca by Ben Wheatley, which is coming straight to Netflix. Mank is coming straight to Netflix. We didn't even mention, there's a remake of Alfred Hitchcock's Rebecca by Ben Wheatley, which is coming out. So that's also coming to Netflix,

which is very exciting. They're, you know, the devil all the time. The new Antonio Campos movie coming straight to Netflix. There is a long list of movies that are going straight to streaming services that might be able to do a lot of the things that we were lamenting 35 minutes ago. There might be a mass cultural experience around, maybe not Mank. I don't know if Mank is necessarily speaking to 100 million people, but it's speaking to 1 million

very excited people. And that's more than enough for us. So it's going to be... Exciting is probably the wrong word to use to wrap up this conversation. What is the right word? More exciting than right now. I have I'm looking forward to it. There is actually something to look forward to, which seems which is new, I think, both existentially and in the world at large and also within the world of movies. And it's also something we can plan for. As you mentioned, a lot of those movies are on streaming services. Like we know they're going

to come out. We know we're going to be able to see them. We know we're going to be able to kind of start planning our pre-content and trying to recruit that million, that 1 million people who want to talk with us about Mank. So I think that maybe, I don't want to say optimism because it's going to be very tough. And this situation in the U.S. is still really tough. And it's very tough for the movie industry as well. So I think it's nice to have something to look forward to. We're intrigued. Yeah.

We're curious. Yeah. We're hopeful. We're hopeful. Yeah. We're, we're curious. Yeah. We're hopeful. We're hopeful. Okay. Okay. Amanda, this is great.

So we'll obviously be back next week with a couple of very fun episodes before we, before I go away, um, including, um, maybe the movie draft. I'll come back. People seem to really like the movie draft.

Did you like the movie draft? I really liked the movie draft, except for. People seem to really like the movie draft. Did you like the movie draft? I really liked the movie draft, except for the part where I, you know, I had some questions about Chris's strategy. I had some questions about the order. So I've requested a lottery and also possibly a lottery special. And I have some questions about the voting.

You know, I would love people to challenge themselves, to think outside the box, you know, I would love people to challenge themselves to think outside the box. You know, to quote Chris Ryan, don't be a normie loser. Vote for something with imagination and with flair. Let me tell you something right now. I don't think you've been studying politics very closely because there is no pathway to winning by insulting your electorate. You have to speak to the people frankly, honestly, sincerely, and admiringly.

You have to tell them, I love these movies and you do too. Let's vote together. Who chose and loves Inception. Honesty in politics. There you go. Congratulations to Christopher Nolan on all of his success. Amanda, thanks.

We're going to go to my conversation with RZA shortly, but first a word from our sponsor. Everyone knows about the risks of driving drunk. You could get in a crash, people could get hurt or killed, but let's take a moment to look at some surprising statistics. Almost 29 people in the United States die every day in alcohol impaired vehicle crashes. That's one person every 50 minutes. Even though drunk driving fatalities have fallen by a third in the last three decades, drunk driving crashes still claim more than 10,000 lives each year. Drunk driving can have a big impact on your wallet too. You get arrested and incur huge legal expenses. You could possibly even lose your job. So what can you do to prevent drunk driving? One, plan a safe ride home before

you start drinking, designate a sober driver, or call a taxi. If someone you know has been drinking, take their keys and arrange for them to get a sober ride home. We all know the consequences of driving drunk, but one thing's for sure, you're wrong if you think it's no big deal. Drive sober or get pulled over. Absolutely honored to be joined by RZA. RZA, thank you for being here on the show. Peace, bong, bong. Thanks for inviting me. So RZA, I got to say, when I saw that you were making The Man with the Iron Fist, I understood. I got it.

I saw the connection. But when I saw this movie, I couldn't quite see the connection as clearly. So where does Cutthroat City come from for you? Well, the connection is really looking at those four characters with the aspirations of trying to be, you're trying to make it in the world, in all reality, right? And then those aspirations turn into desperations. When I got the screenplay, I had a chance to talk to the writer and to the producers. And I told them, for me, there's a common denominator in the story with my own life story, trying to get woo together and trying to beat the odds, you know what I to get rule together and trying to, uh, get

to beat the odds, you know what I mean? And then think about all the people in my community who didn't beat the odds. And that became really the core of the story. So even though it's set in the, uh, in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, it could actually take place in Flint, Michigan with the water crisis, you know, make it take place in Los Angeles. It's like that scenario of aspirations turning to desperations is almost a common thread in a lot of black communities or poor communities. Were you on the hunt for a new script?

Like, how did this actually come to you? No, I wasn't on a hunt. So, you know, I got agents, you know, my agent Cameron Mitchell. So this script was a hot commodity that was sent to multiple directors. You know what I mean? And, you know, director, you know, he has to meet the writer or meet the producers. And then they figure out, you know, who's going to be the man. And I was the man.

What's it like for you? Do people come in with a big misconception or preconception about who you are and what kind of artists you are when you're pitching yourself as a filmmaker, as opposed to, you know, the long history of music that you have behind you? Well, that,

yeah, that was, that was my beginning. Uh, that was the beginning of my directing career. For instance, they go a funny quick story for you. Uh,

you know, I did man with the iron fist and I was, I was sent the script, uh, called love, I did man with the iron fist and I was, I was sent the script, uh, called love beats rhymes. Right. And I wanted to get, you know,

some, some actors in it. And I actually had a conversation with Taraji and she's like, Hey, yeah, I would love to work with you. You know, as soon as you get one of those hot Kung Fu things for me,

I'll be there. I'm like, wait a minute. I'm not doing, I'm not just doing kung fu so the idea is that she saw it that way you know i mean um and so i did actually i did the movie love these rhymes to actually show my storytelling ability and to show that i'm willing to accept all the material and translate it to the silver screen and uh and then cut through city

is to me the consolidation of that is like to me it's like it shouldn't it shouldn't leave a piece of concrete okay he gets it he got it he can do it in terms of how you see yourself and how you spend your time creatively now is is filmmaking a bigger part of it than the music at this stage? In a capacity, yes, in a sense of music is almost like breathing for me. You know what I mean? It's like it's a habit. I do music every morning. I do music every night, right?

So that's just part of my day. But creating filmmaking, that's like the that's my whole brain being bought into a world of activation. And that's the that's the most stimulating part of my life right now. And actually, because of filmmaking and what it encompasses, it gives me the chance to incorporate music, visual art, fashion, dramatic lyricism, so many things. Every form of art is actually captured in films. I feel like in the early stages of your career, you were so brilliant at almost storyboarding albums, the way you would storyboard a record you know you would think about the mythology and what the strategy of the record was and how people would understand the perspective that you were trying to share the artist you were producing for was trying to share so i'm curious as a filmmaker now what what is like the pre-production for you what do you do before you start making a movie yeah um actually that is you actually tapped into something that you know i said in a lot of my early interviews back in the 90s.

It was like, you know, what am I trying to do with these albums? I was like, well, I'm trying to make a person take the cassette, put it in his car, and I think he's watching a movie. Cuba Lynx to me was a movie. Liquid Swords to me was the movie. But I didn't know how to make movies. But I knew that if I was driving from New York to DC, if I had a movie, it'd make the ride better. And that's where the albums came in at. Of course, now DVDs became in our back seats and all that, right? So I think making film was a natural progression for me. And as far as preparation, yeah, the prep moment for a film, it always starts first

with a storyboard or a lookbook. After my lookbook, I would, you know, I like to hire my production designer first. You know, I learned that from Man with the Iron Fist by having my PD and my scouting team

first. It gave me the, uh, a template of the world I wanted to create. You know what I mean? And fortunately I had a strong enough budget to hire qualified people. One thing about Hollywood, which I'll,

I could just say out loud is that the quality and skillset here is incredible. And, you know, the guy who I got on man with the Iron Fist, I mean, he came from Pirates of the Caribbean. You know what I mean? And even on this, you know, on Cut Road City, this is my

DP's maybe 60th film. You know what I mean? My cameraman, my production designer, they all, you know, have years and, they all, you know, have years and years of experience, you know, 10, 15, 20 years of experience. And that becomes a great asset and,

and it becomes an even greater asset if as a director, you have a creative sensibility as well. And that's, and, and I've, and I've, I have that. I mean, I had a chance to study with the master queen tarantino so i have a unique sensibility i think and it's appreciated by my community you know like i could tell the dp yo hit on the 35 all right uh we're gonna push in all right and then after that you're gonna cut you're gonna put the hundred in you're gonna start right here then you're gonna push through the glass and come back then after that, you want to cut, you're going to put the hundred in, you're going to start right here. Then you're going to push through the glass and come back. Right. So that shot, you notice in Cutthroat City that when it pushes through and it goes up and it comes back.

Yeah. I'm able to imagine that, of course, from making videos, from playing with my Canon 5D. That's another thing I do when I prepare for a movie is that I pull out my camera and I got about 15 different lenses and I just go shoot and play. And then when I'm talking to my DP, I could talk a language he understands. I question, but it goes the same way. So when I was doing music, I had met a glitch of trying to explain to somebody what I wanted, trying to explain to the engineer what I wanted. So I had to learn the language. Yo, just turn up my vocals two dBs, yo. You know what I mean? Nah, nah, nah. I want that chord to be diminished.

Once I learned the language, it increased my production value. It increased my ability to even propose because i learned the language so i did the same thing in film so the film is set in new orleans specifically the ninth ward and i i wanted to know what's your relationship to that city because i don't know if i've heard you speak on it before and i was interested that you were making a film set in that space. And I have no physical relationship to it in all reality, which was when we first started to do the film, we talked about that. I had a chance to,

I invited Master P over and Romeo actually, you know, they, you know, Romeo was at one point was going to play a role in the film. I think in the beginning phase, this film took about four years to get all the way to the green light point. FYI.

Uh, um, and, um, we talked about that and I, and I actually reached out to, you know, which I consider the godfathers of new Orleans,

you know what I mean? Uh, to kind of get some insight of that culture. But what I did know was that the story that these men were going through makes sense in any

location. It's just for this movie, it's set in Katrina. And so when I went down to shoot, we did about nine weeks of prepping. And I had a chance to learn about certain things about not only New Orleans culture, but some of the conspiracy ideas that were surrounding, some of the conspiracy ideas that were surrounding Hurricane Katrina. How the people really felt. You know, I scouted a lot of locations.

I went to the prisons. I went to the law enforcement. I went to the religious churches. I went to the locations where the floods was at. And then as a filmmaker, it's your duty and your job to absorb a location, absorb a place, and then tell that story. It's like George Lucas never been to

Tatooine. You know what I mean? But he has to make us believe that it exists and that he knows what's on that planet. You know what I mean? And so, of course, New Orleans is a real place. And after nine weeks of prepping, I was able to, I think, to capture, you know, enough information to tell my story. And FYI, we shot one third of the movie in the Lower Ninth. So we were right on location. Some of those houses that had X's on it, those X's been there since Hurricane Katrina. What did you learn about the city that you didn't know when you were going through that nine week period? Wow. about the city that you didn't know when you were going through that nine-week period wow uh

i mean people look at it as a party city right is it because people go down there and they party yo and you know you could drink drink drink drink but it's a lot of culture there in a sense of uh not just the creole culture and the black culture, but the French history of New Orleans was interesting to me. Like, you know, as a, I guess as a studier, like to understand that America bought New Orleans as a purchase. You know what I mean? New Orleans could have been Canada or some other place at the end of the day, but it was bought as a purchase and then annexed to our country. To understand that some of the culture of the people actually goes back to French colonization. So our character,

the saint, played by Terrence Howard, he gives a whole speech about his ancestors came over and they built it, and they had all the daughters of the king and all that, right? And it's like, people probably looking at that, what the hell is he talking about?

Right? But at the end of the day, no, this is from the creole side and a lot of blacks and well you know mulattos and things of that nature was part of the culture there beyond the southern blacks that's that's that's also there that's you know that that some that was plantation situations some that was house situations and some that was just french descent that was free with economics you know so yeah so i you know i i learned a lot of that you know i stayed in a lot of different like even my hotel rooms i would like rent like old houses and stay in them you know i mean people be telling you a lot of spiritual stuff too you know people think ghosts you know and of spiritual stuff too. You know, people think ghosts,

you know, and all that. I'm not into that chamber. But another thing, you know, all their graveyards is built on top of the ground.

Right? You know that, right? Of course you know that. And that was fascinating to me. And, and I chose one of those

as a location. You know, I went through there. I said, of those as a location. You know, I went through there. I say, wow, this is this is amazing. I was like, you know what? Because our character's wife was dead anyway. But we was like, well, why don't you go to her tombstone and talk to her? Right. And that will tie in. That will give me a chance to give some culture, right? And I did, y'all.

So, as a director, you get to play like that. I get to choose if I want, you know, to, to,

you know, to shoot the scene on a boat. You know, at one point I was thinking about the river and everything and then I removed that

from the idea and then I said, but at the same time, I do need the boys down near the levees. And so that's why you see the scene where they're plotting for the robbery down near the levees. So that, so my audience could at least get a glimpse of what it is.

And I'll just say one last thing before I pass you the mic back, you will notice though, I did not go heavy into the city's life of New Orleans because it wasn't about that. I wasn't trying to exploit that. I was trying to show how the knife ward vibe is. And you notice that I kept it, I kept my camera narrow. I kept it on the truck stop casinos

because that's very unique to Louisiana. You know, you can't find no truck stop casinos on the New Jersey turnpike. All right. And so I, so I try to make sure I chose certain things that was like, had his culture, uh, something that the cameras don't usually turn us, turn their eye on. And, uh, you know, anyway, that's what I did. I thought you captured it beautifully. I was interested in, you know, this is like a recent history period piece. So did you have to do a lot of work to sort of rebuild the destruction post-Katrina,

or was a lot of that still there for you to capture on camera? Some of the destruction was still there, which is crazy. Yeah. Because it's too long for it to still be there. A lot of the people's houses, some houses were just lifted up and put on stilts. And still, that's the house. If you notice the house

that was right next door to Blink's house in the movie, that's the house. I didn't build that. It was boarded up. It had X's on it. It was hurricane destroyed. It was abandoneded up. It had X's on it. It was hurricane destroyed. It was abandoned.

And the people who live next door, that's where they lived. And I asked them, can I use your house? And I rent your house for three weeks as a location. The dude came out. He had a CTC tattoo on his chest. He was a real dude that lived it. You know what I mean? I said, look, we'll put you in

as an extra okay you know and uh so when uh and we're gonna use your house as the location that's where that's where we at and that's what we did so did you feel like you were warmly received by the people down there yeah the visit was warmly received uh you know which is no it was not it was great seriously it was a couple. Like I said, a couple of gang members came through. The only funny thing, because you want a funny story, right? So one gang brother came through, and the other gang brothers knew him. He came through. I think he was shot like five times, and he done shot five people, right? And he came through, and he was, there was so many white people around. He's like, yo, what they all doing here? You know what I mean? And they was like,

yo, we doing a film with Ripsa. He said, Ripsa, let me holler at him. He came over, he's like, yo, what up, man? He had a voice. Yeah, what up, man? Yo, you doing a movie here?

Yeah, we doing a movie about the lower knife. It's called Cut Though City. Cut Though City. CTC threw up his sign, he showed me his tattoo. I was like, yo, we're doing a movie about the Lower Knight. It's called Cutthroat City. Cutthroat City. CTC threw up his sign. He showed me his tattoo. I was like, yo, yeah. I said, it ain't going to be like the gangster side of it.

Not too much. You know what I mean? But anyway, he was like, yo, look. Check it out. Y'all going to need any cars? I got a car. I can sell you right now. And I was like, well, it doesn't really match.

It didn't match what we was doing, you know what I mean? But he was trying to sell me a car on the spot, like, yo. But anyway, I got a lot of love from the community, and I made sure that the production gave back to the community. When you make a movie and you rent houses for locations, it actually is very, you know, there's a lucrative thing there, you know, for a family. I'm not going to say the numbers out loud like that,

but it's something that really helps a family. And we probably rented about five or six houses, and I'm sure that it was a very positive thing, you know. And I made it. I was adamant. I was adamant about it, because they was pulling me to other wards, and, you know, we could just, I said, man, why are we going to do that?

We could just go to the source, go to the location. They got them dead in the streets right there. We block off that. We do it, man. And, you know, the producer, you know, my line producer, he was like, all right, you're the boss. Let's go. And we did it, you know? Yeah, I know the distributor is also donating some of the proceeds in the movie to lower9.org too which is great that you guys are doing something for the for the community even after you made the movie too it's a special thing yep yep so can we talk about heist movies really quick sure you know you mentioned quentin and i know you you and quentin have been friends for a

long time and quentin loves to watch a lot before he starts making something, and he pulls inspiration from everywhere. Did you find yourself watching movies, heist movies or movies like this to get inspired for Cutthroat? Well, yes, of course, right? Some of the classic ones, you know, at the level of Cutthroat, Set It Off. Actually, for me, Dog Day Afternoon had an interesting

vibe to it for me. Inside Man I thought was a good watch for me. But after I watched a few heist movies, and I watch a lot. I'm going to take it way back to 12 Angry Men and all that. I'm going heist movies, and I watched a lot, you know what I mean? I'm going to take you way back to 12 Angry Men and all that. I could keep going, but I ain't going to give you

a whole list. But the thing for me, though, I was like, I looked at what I had and was like, okay, I'm not going to be competing to die hard and all that. I'm not playing with $100 million here, all right? And for me,

nor are my protagonists or antagonists playing that heavy, right? This is a community that even a $20,000, $50,000 come up is big. You know what I mean? And so I had to think about how do I keep it at that level to where, yo, it's just, yo, they end up with 100 Gs,

they feel like their life is going to change. You know what I mean? And so that was part of the thing that I had to focus on. And then more importantly for me, I had to make sure, not to give away the film, but I had to make sure that the audience cared about the guys who chose to take this path. Because you don't care about no criminal, man, at the end of the day. You may. I mean, Scarface, maybe. Certain criminals we love. But sometimes you don't care about a guy that's taking that route. But if you understand that

these men had no other opportunities, they went to FEMA. What does FEMA do? First of all, in the FEMA scene, what I try to show is they're walking in with a bag full of money, but they're not giving it out to a family who needs it. To me, that's

funny to me. I found it funny. I found the stories that I heard from the people in the community funny. You know, the line with Demetrius Schiff said, FEMA's coming in, buying all our houses. I didn't know that, that they was dealing with gentrification at the time. And I don't think, I don't know if that's conspiracy or not, but I didn't even phantom that that was part of the move. And then the people were saying that that was. And so I was like, we got to get that.

We need to hear that in the movie. And me and the writer sat down and we rewrote some dialogue to just say what the people really felt. They felt like, yo, they came in with those bullshit FEMA checks to buy us out of our property and to send us away

and send us to Florida and send us to Houston. I mean, send people to Atlanta and Houston and then rebuild the community without them. You know what I mean? I was like, wow, I didn't know that that happened. I said, yeah, that's exactly what happened. It's a migration of a lot of families who had to sell. And so I thought it'd be good to throw that in to the movie.

And you hear that in the dialogue. You know what I mean? Tell me about the cast a little bit because you know you've got you're sort of your four young stars who's who is this crew of friends but you also surrounding them you have one of the craziest supporting casts seen in a while you know you've got rob morgan ethan hawke aza gonzalez wesley snipes ti terrence howard like Bob Morgan, Ethan Hawke, Aza Gonzalez, Wesley Snipes, T.I., Terrence Howard. How did all of these people get involved in this movie? And why did they want to take important but pretty small roles?

Well, first and foremost, I got to thank my cast for believing in my vision and for understanding my creative process. I think creatively everybody that came to the show respect me as a creator. I think I'm good at assembling crews. I think I proved that part of my life. You have some experience. Yeah, you have some experience in that lane. And I think that I think the material also sparked them.

You know, to be able to come and talk about this in a cinematic way there's been documentaries about it you know but it but it hasn't really been a magnifying glass on one small group and i think that that resonated with the cast you know not you know in in the original first draft asza Gonzalez role was actually written as a man and as I'm reading it I'm thinking and I'm talking to producers I'm like in all reality

a man cop you know a white male cop in this situation may not find the empathy needed for the character we have. You know what I mean? But a female cop, you know, female cop, no matter what,

there's a natural instinct. There's a motherly instinct in women no matter what. And what if that is an instinct that came out of my character to, you know, persuade her moves and throughout this, throughout the story, you know what I mean? And it was like, Whoa,

that's interesting take. I said, yeah, let's try that. And then we started reaching out. Uh, and you know, I had a couple of choices.

Uh, one of my choices, the schedule didn't work. And then I, uh, and then I had to look around and I found A's and I was like, first of all, I saw her in a baby driver. Yeah. of all, I saw her in Baby Driver.

Yeah. And she was a stunner in that one, right? She was just like, bang. I was like, damn. I was like, wow. Would she be interested in not being a stunner? Then when we talked about it, she said exactly that. Like, I don't want to come in as the glamour girl.

I said, no, no, I got something for you. That's, you know's that's that's that that's you know that's a needle push as an actor and then she uh sent us into the script and she was like oh yeah i'm there she's great and i i have to ask you about ethan really quick because he's really off the leash in this and i'm wondering like what you guys talked about? Wow. Ethan, first of all, it was a, a, a, a, you know,

a shot in the dark to get Ethan. I met Ethan during kill bill days. So we had some familiarity with each other. Uh, when his schedule became valuable, it was like, you know, I actually waited for him.

I had to wait. Like I had to hold, you know, they, like we had to wait to go back and shoot, you know, maybe which is an expensive process, but we did it. He came in, and man, it was just like this guy. If he was a rapper, he came in on some Nas shit.

Seriously, he had questions. And he trusted me. I think he trusted me. He met me when I was just a student with Quentin and he said, you know, he met me as the RZA and all that. But he trusted me. And when when he came with some of his questions. I had a folder in my hand, right? Because the night before, I really, well, not the night, but the weekend before, I really meditated on his character. And then I gave him some new lines.

That's not in the script. That wasn't in the script. I was like, look, this is where I think your character will feed and, you know, will elevate it. And then he read it. He was like, well, 10 of my questions is already answered. He's like, okay, we're elevating. And then he read it, and he was like, well, 10 of my questions is already answered.

He's like, okay, we're in sync. He's like, brother, okay, I see what you're doing now. Because he wasn't, you know, he's coming in in the middle, and he's trying to, you know, and creatively, I think, and I just want to say that I think that's the healthy thing about me is I'm an artist first. I know how it feels to be in front of that camera when the makeup is on you. I know how it feels to sit in that chair. I know how it feels to be ignored. I know how it feels to have 50 people on you trying to cut your eyebrow.

You know what I mean? And because of that, I think my communication with the talent is pure. And I think the relationship that we had making this film was a pure relationship.

Like, I think it was pleasant for all of us and appreciative of it. And watching him work, like, it was a couple of takes

when he finished, man, I was like, I felt stimulated. And I had to tell him, I said, yo, G, it's like, you just fucking ripped the asshole out of it. Like, I felt it couple of takes when he finished, man, I was like, I felt stimulated. And I had to tell him, I said, yo, G, it's like you just fucking ripped the asshole out of it. Like, I felt it.

It's like, I hung with you before, I admired you, but the way you just absorbed it. Yo, he said, he also said, I'm going to talk to Ethan, but he said, yo, he's like, the way me and him were flowing, he's like, yo, it's like a natural high going on right now. I said, yeah, and I felt it because we was like, we was ping ponging it, yo. We was moving, you know, 18-hour days type shit to get, because, you know, we had a little bit of time to grab everything. And we was just moving to get it. Like, yo, we got to get this. We only got a week to get all this shit. You know what I mean?

And so anyway. Nah, it comes off on the screen i mean i think obviously demetrius and and and shamik and all the the stars are great but like rob and ethan and they're it's like heat check performances they're just they make the movie so fun um i just got a couple more questions for you don't want to take up too much of your time um i wanted to ask you very quickly about martial arts movies because you're obviously an expert and a huge fan and i feel like they're a little bit back in the consciousness now because there was the bruce lee documentary and now the bruce lee movies are available in the states to buy like are you keeping up with

the genre at this stage of your life of course i love martial art movies and i you know i'm watching one a week no matter what you know i'm introducing you have a i have a young my son is a teenager now he's 14 years old now uh and we watched flag of iron a couple of nights ago and we have uh he haven't he's seen five deadly venom when he was a kid you know because he just seen it in a backdrop me watching it for the 50th time but but uh now that he's in film class and stuff like that you know like for instance we watch how the West Was Won, right? I mean, Once Upon a Time in the West by Sergio Leone, right? So we would watch that.

Then we watched Minority Report, right? And these are assignments from his teacher, right? So then I go, okay, now let's watch Fist of the White Lotus. You know what I mean? And so it's fun to introduce him to these films and to re-watch them. And then as far as keeping up on the genre,

you know, the company that's putting this movie out, Wellgo, they actually are the ones who put out the Yip Man movies. Yeah. And not just those. As soon as a new movie come, they send it right to my house. So I got the hookup. Uh, that's great. Okay. So you've made a martial arts film. You made a music movie, you made a heist movie. Is there another kind of movie you want to make?

Yeah, I think, I think, um, uh, I got, I guess I can say this to you. If you're familiar with my, my, my, my albums, like Cuban Lynx and all that. Of course, yeah. Yeah, so I think that, I think there's a Gravedigger movie in me somewhere. Oh, yeah. Horror, yeah. I think there's a Mafia movie in me.

I think there's a Cuban Lynx in me. You know what I mean? So anyway, I'm thinking like that. Do I follow my album trajectory and look for products and stories that I can relate to based on it's a story I tried to tell in an audio way now I can tell in the audio visual way yeah we need the six feet deep the movie that's that would be special gotta be crazy right um last question RZA we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing they've seen. Have you seen anything great in quarantine? Yeah, I mean, what's the greatest thing I've seen in quarantine? I mean, I watch movies every night, bro. So, well, what did I watch last night? I want to say the last great thing because the last thing that really blew my mind was, uh,

was really in an old Hitchcock film that Paul Newman was in torn curtain. Oh yeah. Julie Andrews. Yeah. Yo, yo, great movie. Yo,

that, yeah, that fucked me up over the quarantine because I, because I got his whole collection and I kept putting torn curtain and, uh, Marlene to the side. And then I said, okay, let me get into these two. And they both blew my mind and shit. But what I watched last night was the Errol Knots.

Yeah, I watched that last night. The night before, we watched William Dafoe and Eternity's Gate at eternity's at eternity's gate which is last last i think it was off of the oscar last i mean he was trying to get the oscar run last year that was the van gogh movie yeah the van gogh movie so which you know every movie i put in you know i gotta i gotta let my family over sometimes some of them some of them are hard watches you know some are easy some are easy watches you know i mean but they roll with me so anyway bro those are great recommendations rizza thank you for doing this your your your music and work has meant a lot to me so i appreciate you coming on the show man thanks for having me

peace and blessings thank you to amanda bobby w, and of course the RZA. Tune in next week when, as I mentioned, we will return to the movie draft looking at the movies of 2011. Today's episode of The Big Picture was brought to you by NHTSA. Everyone knows about the risks of driving drunk. Thank you.