The Big Picture - Netflix + Michael Bay = 2019's Wildest Movie a.k.a ‘6 Underground’ | The Big Picture

Episode Date: December 13, 2019

The grand master of ridiculous action movies is back and he’s teamed up with Netflix. Sean and Amanda are joined by Chris Ryan to break down every aspect of Michael Bay’s latest, ‘6 Underground��� (0:37). Then, Sean and Amanda analyze the Screen Actors Guild Awards nominations and what they could mean for the Oscar race (56:19). Finally, Sean is joined by ‘Richard Jewell’ leading man Paul Walter Hauser to discuss the new Clint Eastwood drama and his long road to Hollywood stardom (67:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Paul Walter Hauser and Chris Ryan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelley, and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. As the year comes to a close, our staff is writing about our favorite sports moments of 2019. Jason Concepcion explains the year in 10 pieces of pop culture, and we break down the last 10 years of the Marvel Universe. Also, ahead of the new Star Wars movie coming out next week, the staff's discussing Baby Yoda, Rise of Skywalker romances, and what the Resistance will do if they win. You can check this all out on TheRinger.com.

I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the vulgar auteur himself, Michael Bay. That's right, Michael Bay has made a new movie. It's called Six Underground. It's the six, bitch! Six Underground is on Netflix right now.

Joining us to discuss this movie is Chris Ryan. He's going to be sharing some feelings emanating from his exploding heart. Later in the show, I'll have an interview with Paul Walter Hauser, the star of Richard Jewell. You may remember Paul from I, Tonya and Black Klansman. He's really great in Clint Eastwood's new movie, and he's really one of the most entertaining people we've ever had on this show. So I hope you'll stick around for that conversation.

We'll talk about that movie next week, Amanda and I, and maybe Bombshell as well. But speaking of Bombshells, Six Underground, let's go. Let's do this. Who is Michael Bay? Chris, how do you answer that question? He's a circus leader. He's a carnival barker. And he's a cinematic genius. Amanda? I would say he's Sean's favorite filmmaker. This is nice. Sean is just going to have a nice, happy time. And Chris and I are here to support

you. Thank you. He is a visionary. That is for sure. Of what is something we're going to discuss on this podcast. But he has a very specific film language. And, you know, he does a lot with it. He certainly does. Michael Bay is a 54-year-old man born and raised in Los Angeles, California. He's made a great many films that a great many people have seen. I suspect a lot of the listeners of this show are familiar with his

work, but he's fallen a bit on deaf ears. He's been on the dark side of the moon, bro. Yeah. He's gotten caught up in some stuff in the last 10 years that I'm not thrilled about, but let's just run very quickly through his CV. He, after a very successful career as a commercial and music video director, made his debut with Bad Boys in 1995, which kicks ass. He then made a film called The Rock, another film that kicks ass. He followed it up with Armageddon, one of the totemic films of the late 90s, and a big movie for many people who work here at The Ringer. Incredible stuff.

He then made a movie called Pearl Harbor, which we don't talk about in this podcast. And then he made Bad Boys 2. That's an incredible run. If he died the moment that production wrapped after Bad Boys 2, we'd be like this guy. And I'm kind of surprised he didn't. He has obviously an insane, operatic, ridiculous, oftentimes quite bad and incoherent filmmaking style that I still find immensely thrilling. That is aesthetically joyful to me. And I'm not saying he's smart. I'm not saying he is a brain genius of story. A brain genius. I'm not saying he's one of those things. No. But he is able to do

things in his movies that send chills down my spine. And his later films after this period are a little bit complicated because he got caught up in Transformers world. Yeah. And he made four Transformers movies. Five Transformers movies? Five. He directed all of them, didn't he? Yeah.

God, that's so many Transformers movies. Some of them are actually pretty good. I'm not going to... I got to admit, I haven't revisited them. Well, I profiled Bay in, I think it was 2010 for GQ I gotta admit I haven't revisited them well I I profiled Bay in I think it was 2010 for GQ

and so 2011 I have the link 2011 thank you for correcting me there and he was he was making Transformers Dark of the Moon

which is the third film and the second film is really not good it's called Revenge of the Fallen and he was like and that movie was made

sort of during the writer's strike and so it's a little... That was the problem. Well, even by Michael Bay standards, it was very, very hard to understand. Three is pretty good. It was a bit of a comeback.

Four and five. Isn't three about like the JFK assassination? Like Optimus Prime does it? It is. Optimus Prime is not responsible for the death of JFK, but there is a lot of space race information in the film. Gotcha. It's just like the Irishman.

They have a relationship. They're both about labor. And anyway, he gets trapped in this Transformers story. He emerges to make a movie called 13 Hours, The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi. You and I saw together in a movie theater right after Christmas in Glendale. I wouldn't say it was one

of the best viewing experiences of my life. I love to spend time with you, Chris. I love to see movies with you, especially movies that we view as dumb shit entertainments that we want to apply serious meaning to. Yeah. I would say that that one let me down. He followed up with another Transformers movie. It felt like Michael Bay was in the wilderness. Lo and behold, Netflix comes along. And they tell us, we'd like to give Michael Bay all the money to do whatever he wants to do. And he did it. He did it. He brought us Six Underground.

Why are you playing this so like calm and close to the, like just go ahead. We're not talking about Six Underground yet. I'm just setting the stage. Michael Bay being back is something that you were just like literally screaming at the top of your lungs on Hollywood Boulevard last night. Yeah, we saw the film together. We're going to get to the film in a minute. I just want to say I'm just delighted. I was delighted by his return. I'm delighted that it's Netflix who's bringing him back. And there's a very big reason for that, which we'll get into. And it felt like for years, and who could have known if you ever watch a movie like The Rock that this man had shackles on him, but he had shackles on him.

Six Underground makes The Rock look like Marriage Story. All of the action in The Rock could be squeezed into the first 17 minutes of Six Underground. Absolutely. So before we go any further and get into the depths of Six Underground, I'm going to outline some film theory for you guys. Are you ready? This is great. This is amazing shit.

Can I do the backstory on this? Sure. Which is that Sean and I prepared this podcast outline together, and Sean did part of it, and I kind of filled the rest in, and I came back about 20 minutes before this recording just to refresh on what was in the podcast. And Sean had added this entire paragraph called Vulgar Autorism. So go ahead, Sean.

I'm so excited to define vulgar auteurism for listeners of The Big Picture. Here is what it is. Coined by the critic Andrew Tracy and lovingly adopted by critics like Ignatiy Vishnevetsky, who defines vulgar auteurism as enthusiasm for directors who work in genre filmmaking, mainly action, but also figures like the Farrelly brothers. It applies essentially the exact same auteur theory developed by the French critics in Cahiers du Cinema in the 50s, which extended authorship to genre filmmakers like Hitchcock or Howard Hawks,

but broadens what we might deem big or small budget trash. Michael Bay, to me, is the absolute lord of the vulgar auteurs. He is the megalodon. He is the king. Now, there are other people who have been involved in this conversation. I think, Chris, a lot of your favorite filmmakers could be incorporated into this. Tony Scott, Michael Mann to some degree, even though he is a very sort of respectable type. Neville Dean Taylor was a big one when this was first developed and their career has kind of gone sideways somebody like John M. Chu who was making movies like

G.I. Joe movies at the time and now has a completely different career John Woo would be a good example of this certainly De Palma in some ways is absolutely there is also a kind of straight to VOD kind of action filmmaker

guys like John Hyams who made like a lot of Universal Soldier movies in the late 2000s, early aughts. This term has kind of vanished. It was very big on film internet. Even before film Twitter, film internet was very into vulgar auteurism. Bay is perfect for it for me because he has a very clear idea of what he's interested in and he is the author of his movies even if he doesn't write any of the scripts and i don't think he's ever written a script in his life i don't even know if he has knows how to write i i don't either um or read for that matter but what he knows how to do is explore the human heart yeah and he does that by making

things go very fast making them go very loud. And then they fucking explode. And then blowing shit up. Yeah. That is what he does. Yeah. And it sounds dumb and it is dumb. And sometimes it's okay to be dumb. Amanda, you have things that you like that you know are dumb. Yeah, of course.

I think dumb is unfair. Okay. Because I think he's sort of a savant. It's ridiculous. In like the actual, I cannot believe that I'm watching this. And I go to the movies to see things that I cannot see anywhere else and that maybe don't even exist. And that is what he excels at. And then you just blow all of that shit up. But it is operatic, giant scale. So I don't think, I think it requires

skill. It's not dumb. It definitely requires skill. It is a kind of, it's a kind of management in a high stakes way that I think we kind of overlook. Because Bay's it is a kind of it's a kind of management in a high stakes way that i think we kind of overlook because bay's reputation is as this dictatorial you know guy rolling around on a giant crane barking orders at people screaming telling shia labeouf to get closer to the explosion yes yeah and and when i was reporting that story about him almost 10 years ago a lot of people were like this like, this is a tough motherfucker. He can be really mean on set. He's got a really clear vision of what he wants, and he is not going to pat you on the back at the end of the day.

He has a militaristic approach. And you can understand that when you look at his movies, which are very adoring of the U.S. military and military power. He's a bit of a fascist in that way. And so it's hard to celebrate somebody like this. Not just in that way, but yes. We'll explore the themes of Six Underground as well. So I don't want to confuse the emotional, ideological bent of Michael Bay with what he's able to do as a filmmaker.

And that is the thing that I'm interested in talking about most especially, though I guess we can also talk about some of the flaws of the thinking behind his movies. What else to say about the vulgar auteurs and what Michael Bay does before we dive into this movie? Yeah, I think that, you know, we often ascribe a certain genius to somebody like Spielberg, because he has an understanding of how camera movement and cutting and lighting get at a deep part of your brain that just reacts to those things, like on a very sensory, visceral level. And he understands that and then turns it past 11 on the dial to be like, what if I could make your heart explode?

What if I could break your eardrums? What if I make your eyeballs pop out of your head? There is not a single shot in Michael Bay's entire filmography that isn't essentially sexualizing and aestheticizing like any single thing he points his camera at. He's incapable of not viewing it as an object of desire and consumption and power and eroticism, whether it's a fucking robot or it's's a Ferrari, or a woman, or a man.

You know, like, because that happens in 13 hours too. It's just beefcakes for two hours, and then Benghazi pops off. Yes, it's John Krasinski dripping wet with an additional 40 pounds of muscle on top of Jim Halpert. And it is, all of it is sexualized. You're right, A bottle of Coke,

sexualized. A missile, sexualized. It is, he is the phallic god come to explain human desire and impulse in these really stupid action movies. And that feels like applying

something deeper than it actually is onto the movie. But I think if you psychoanalyze Michael Bay, he would get to that place. He would understand that that is what drives him in a lot of ways. Yeah, but it's all just kind of impulse driven. And I don't know that he would sit there and be like, I shot this missile or this Coke bottle in this way because it has this shape. And also,

I'm trying to express this, but he does, his films are about that just in deep inherent desire and like unexamined, like expression of, of ourselves. Yeah. And like, and mostly men, but there's something, they're like quote traditionally masculine movies, but there's something that's so obvious about them. And so like on unfiltered that doesn't make them as offensive to me. I guess maybe I'm just used to it. They're so cheesy. Yeah, they're cheesy and it just kind of is what it is. I don't think you're really waiting below the surfaces trying to understand what this means for a generation of women. Who gives a shit? It's on its face in a way. And I think that that's true both of, for every part of his filmmaking.

It just like is what it is at a maximalist level. Yeah, there's no, he wouldn't even know how to virtue signal. Like he is completely disconnected. He's been an extremely wealthy and successful person for many years. He's kind of checked out on the idea of, even like symbolism, you know,

like he is just doing what he thinks is cool. And in its way, that is the symbol. That is the symbol for a kind of certain masculine impulse. I think that his movies worked best when they were very easy to explain. There's a giant meteor and the only people that can stop it from destroying Earth are a bunch of oil rig workers in Texas.

A disgruntled general has taken over Alcatraz and is threatening San Francisco with nuclear warheads. Yeah. Very clear explanation. Two badass cops in Miami are going to wreck shit. Those are his best movies. The Transformers movies don't work that well because there's this arcane mythology about something that doesn't matter. And also there's way too much CGI. And he, in many respects, is like a practical filmmaker.

And I think the stuff that works best even in Six Underground is the stuff that it's like, even if it isn't real, even if it is animated, it feels real or close to real. The stuff that is science fiction, I just don't, I don't get. Yeah, you can tell that at the heart of Transformers in like whenever Steven Spielberg was like, yeah, I'll put my name on this, was like a boy and his robot. And they wanted to make this kind of like heartfelt E.T. Amblin entertainment version. And he was like, fuck that.

I am throwing 80 robots and crashing into a highway and having like a foot race with Decepticons through Miami. I mean, it's just like that's so far removed from what the kernel of the idea of that movie was. The fact that he made five of them is kind of a hilarious mistake at this point now when you look back on it. Yeah, we missed out on a lot of interesting movies. And this move, Six Underground, makes me long for what we could have gotten from 2009 through 2018 from him. You know, he did make Pain and Gain, which we didn't mention. Oh, yeah. Which is kind of an interesting movie that I think is not totally successful.

It's kind of his closest stab at a comedy, a kind of bodybuilder's action comedy. Yeah. Which I think was a victim of a few things. One, it's not great. Two, it was weirdly marketed. Three, the timing on it just was not ideal. I just, it's a movie starring The Rock and Mark

Wahlberg. I think it also was bad because it tried to exist within reality. For the most part, even though it was shot in Miami and was about bodybuilders and had cocaine and fights and all this stuff, it essentially tried to live within the laws of physics. Michael Bay should not be adherent to the laws of physics ever. I agree. When he was finishing up Transformers Dark of the Moon and we spoke, I was like, what are you doing next? And he was like,

I can't tell you, but what I can tell you is it's my 70s movie. It's like my character-driven little indie movie. That is so funny that he thinks that. And, you know, the movie costs like $50 million and it's about bodybuilders

who rob banks. I think he's a really interesting guy and I'm very interested to see how Six Underground is received. What to you guys jumped out while watching it specifically that you were like, this either impressed me or it scared me or I felt compelled to talk about it? I think even for Michael Bay, the so muchness of it, we all walked out and we're like, was there a single note given on this entire movie? Was there a single budgetary limit? Is this literally, I think it's the closest that I've ever felt to just like seeing what Michael Bay's brain is like without any sort of like intermediary.

Unfiltered. And that was quite literally awe-inspiring and frightening. But it's remarkable also that he just gets to do this in 2019 because there is, I don't know, there's an explosion or something insane every five seconds. Like every five seconds. I'm going to briefly describe the plot of this movie. Hopefully it adheres closely to the short descriptions I gave to his other movies. So after faking their own deaths, six individuals form a vigilante squad in order to take down notorious criminals. All of them were brought to the team by its leader, played by Ryan Reynolds, for their unique skills and a desire to erase their past and change the future. So it's what?

One part Ocean's Eleven, one part The Dirty Dozen. I do think it's worth mentioning and we can get more into this. It's also incredibly autobiographical because it is about a billionaire who's tired of taking notes. It's about a billionaire who's like,

there's just nothing but red tape in the government. If you try to go through philanthropy or anything. So what I decided to do was put together my own SEAL Team 6 and take out warlords and dictators that I designate as evil. Yes, it is. I don't think we can overhype this. Like I watched this movie. I felt purified. I also felt filthy. I was baptized in the waters of cinema. This is one of the most exciting two hours I've spent in a movie theater a really long time. And I came out feeling like I had a film of fucking slime all over me because it is completely morally bankrupt in a way that is almost hysterical. It is almost hilarious. Absolutely. I think what I said to you guys

afterwards is this is Mike Bloomberg's favorite movie of all time because it really just valorizes the idea that someone could do this. But it's like Dan Bilzerian's favorite movie of all time. Yes. It's someone who has a more grotesque taste in the world. And the Ryan Reynolds character is super interesting because he's played by Ryan Reynolds, who just does not strike you as the kind of guy who's like, what I need to do is make everyone think I killed myself in a Red Bull stunt plane. Shout out Red Bull. Shout out Red Bull.

No free ads. There's an extraordinary amount of SponCon in this movie as well, which we can talk about. And then recruit other people who are somehow highly skilled, but also capable of great illegality and make them work for me

but I also will not have any meaningful relationship with them at all. In fact, I will encourage them to not share anything about themselves to anyone in the world.

Which, how would you guys feel if someone came to you and asked you to do that? Am I already dead? Like I'm dead? I quote unquote died? Yeah, sure.

I'd be into it. Yeah? Well, you can't have quote unquote died. Yeah, sure. I'd be into it. Yeah. Well, you can't have quote unquote died because he stages the deaths for you. Right. I mean, you have to have been, you must be, you're on the run, you know? Yeah, if I found myself in the position of some of the characters in this movie, I think I'd be down to get a second lease on the afterlife. Can I ask you guys something? Because I did go to the bathroom at one point. Maybe I missed it, though. Probably not. Was compensation discussed at any point? I think that it's like money is no object. Because I'm sure at any given point, it's just like,

he's straight crypto-ing and he's Bitcoin-ing and he's maybe skimming a little off the top. If you're saying to me, come with me your former life stage a funeral don't ever use your real name or identity again and work for me to target you know the most dangerous people on earth and i'll pay you in bitcoin the answer is no one of the things that they actually i mean this is like this crazy libertarian movie one of the things that they talk about is like one of the advantages of being a supposed dead spooks is that they don't have to pay taxes anymore they're like yeah dude it's sick yeah my mom cried at my funeral but i don't have to pay income tax anymore uh yeah that's like a scene in this movie it's like the

quietest scene is people being like man it's awesome not having to pay taxes so the ryan reynolds character has gotten wealthy because he is a master of magnet technology. Literally, he has designed technology with magnets that has revolutionized our society, which of course is, that's metaphorical writing. He is a person who is drawing other people to him with his ingenuity, his wit, and his cash. The problem is that you don't sense that there's any connectivity amongst these people at all.

And we can run down the six of them if you'd like. I think Amanda has a helpful category here later in the show that identifies why any of these other people are in this movie because it's very confounding. I guess I probably would do it. I would probably accept the job. I wouldn't accept the job, though, if the home base was an abandoned airplane hangar. In the desert. In the desert.

Yeah. Which seems like not a chill place to hang out. Also, I just want to say in terms of real Knicks-esque drafting by Ryan Reynolds. When they were announcing what each person does, which is a classic team like, you know, team up, dirty dozen kind of thing. It's like, oh, it's the explosives expert. It's the, it's the, they have a guy who's really good at parkour. Yeah. A Colombian cartel hitman.

Melanie Laurent, who just honestly is the fucking Terminator in this movie. And we'll probably spend an hour talking about her. Dave Franco is the driver Terminator in this movie. And we'll probably spend an hour talking about her. Dave Franco is the driver. They have a doctor, which is kind of like limited because how much could she possibly do before they have to take somebody to a hospital anyway? A lot in the first 17 minutes of this movie,

which we can discuss, but anyway. And then they have John Boyega, or not John Boyega, they have Corey Hawkins, who is brought in from the Deltas. So he is an actual soldier. But otherwise, not exactly like

blue-trip first-round draft picks. It's just a confounding collection of people. You know, when you watch a movie like The Dirty Dozen, you're like, oh, I actually recognize all of those people as significant character actors

of their time. Ryan Reynolds, Melanie Laurent, okay. I get it. I get what Bae is doing with Melanie Laurent. No one loves a striking blonde

more than Michael Bae. Dave Franco, comic relief, that's a must for him. He always has to have the wisecracking guy, Buscemi in Armageddon. You know,

this is, he always has that. Adria Arjona is not an actress I'm familiar with, but she also fills the kind of like, she's kind of like when Denise Richards was the nuclear physicist in the Bond movie.

Oh, yeah. Like incredibly beautiful, striking, supermodel-esque woman who is also a genius doctor who also does not get a backstory in this movie. Ben Hardy, who is a man, who I guess is famous. He was, that's the parkour guy?

Yeah, that's the parkour guy. He was in Bohemian Rhapsody. I learned this last night. Okay, does he do parkour in Bohemian Rhapsody? No, unfortunately. Maybe that would have made it a better movie. When we were watching this movie, I think we all thought Ben Hardy was just a professional parkour dude.

I thought it was Billy Magnuson, with all respect to Billy Magnuson. I'll tell you right now, if you want to know the two major influences on Six Underground, it's Black Hawk Down and GoPro YouTube videos of adventure

tourism in Croatia. Of guys who were like, check out how I ran across this roof in Belgrade, bro! And it's like, and then the cops came, but we were already laughing! Deuces! That's like literally a quarter the cops came, but we were already laughing. Deuces! That's like literally a quarter of the influence on this film. Let's talk a little bit more about the style.

Yeah. So the editing in the movie is a little bit different for Michael Bay movies. He is a fast-cutting, intense action filmmaker. But the first 17 minutes of this movie, which is one long chase scene throughout Florence, Italy, is as up close. Seizure inducing. And as fast moving as anything he's ever made. And by proxy, maybe anyone's ever made. Did it make you sick, Chris?

I was like, if this whole movie is like this, this is going to be intense. Like, I'm going to barf. I feel like you don't love this kind of filmmaking, Amanda. Like, I feel like you admire, like, a great set piece, but this is a different kind of thing. Two key things here. Number one, Florence. Michael Bay and I both appreciate a fine European

city. It's not a capital. I know my capitals. Number two, filmed outside. Thank you so much. Daylight. You love to see it. They're, like, bright-colored cars. He's driving a lime green sports car. Dave Franco's character. And outside thank you so much daylight yeah you love to see it they're like bright colored cars he's driving a lime green sports car yeah dave franco's character and he drives through what seems like every 17 plazas yes i don't is this florence have that many plazas that many yeah it's italy okay it's like basically that's accurate they have plazas and they have that really big church

the duomo i really enjoyed it when he's like i'm on the du So that's accurate? They have plazas and they have that really big church, the Duomo. I really enjoyed it when he's like, I'm on the Duomo. We're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. We know. And then they have museums, which is the end of this car chase. Or it's not really the end. It keeps going. But maybe the climax of the second act of the car chase of the first 17 minutes of this film is them going through

the uffizi which is like the famous museum in florence where like the david is and it's the soundtrack switches from some like anonymous lumineers nonsense to uh like dubstep carmina i was jacked this is great yeah the music in the movie is notable. It is either dubstep remixes of opera or circa 2002 ripcord guitar music. Yeah. Which, neither of which is contemporary at all. Can I also just mention a quick note? It's just that we have no idea what's going on

in the first 17 minutes of this movie. Like, it's unclear as to why they're running, who they're running from. And that's not because he's playing like hide the pinata with it. It's like he's actually just like fuck it. I'm not telling you

why we're in a car chase. It's incredibly confounding. He keeps putting title cards on the screen, numbers on the screen. We learned that the characters are identified by their numbers.

One, two, three, four, five, six. But also the time shifting is very strange. It's almost Lindelof-esque, the way that he's bouncing back into the past. Yeah, it was like four years ago, six months ago, 17 minutes ago.

And every 26 minutes or so, Ryan Reynolds comes up over some voiceover and says, what would happen if you were a ghost? I know. Here's what I did. Watch 130 for 30, bro. What if I told you? He wouldn't pay taxes.

There's a kind of repetition in the movie that for some filmmakers would be a signature. It would be a stylistic choice to beat you over the head with something. You know, in Hitchcock films, you see these patterns and you can identify them all throughout as movies. And you say like, oh, there's so much intentionality going on here. I genuinely just think that they were confused when they were making this movie. And they keep saying the same thing over and over again because there's a feeling like,

don't look down at your phone. Like, stay with us. Yeah. Make sure you're still in this movie with us, which is kind of a new form of movie making. Like, that adrenalized...

There are very few master shots where you're like, oh, the three people have walked into a room and now I understand where they are in space. It's like, I'm like, what?

I don't even know what country we're in most of the time to say nothing'm like, what, I don't even know what country we're in most of the time to say nothing of like how a guy gets from the top of a skyscraper to the ground floor without any explanation. Right. It's like, it's almost like completely uninterested

in most conventional visual storytelling gimmicks. I do feel like we've noticed with the Netflix movies and not even these big budget Netflix movies, but like the rom-coms are at a much faster pace and they really are changing what's on the screen every five seconds because I do think they know that your eye will wander unless you're like really locked in. But this feels like the ultimate version of we're just going to make you stare at the screen because something totally bizarre and unexpected is going to happen. Honestly, like I know I say every five seconds is kind of like a figure of speech, but

literally every five to 10 seconds. And it all ramps up to every time they move to a new city, there's a new major set piece. And so there's a new major moment where whether it's one guy running down, is it the Afizi? Is that how you pronounce it? The Duomo. He runs down the Duomo, yeah. Okay, running down the Duomo. That is one

and then there is another one later where they're in a hotel in Japan is it in Tokyo uh Hong Kong

in Hong Kong oh yeah yeah yeah and there's a major moment there so you have to stay on board and then there's one later in a country called Turkestan

on a yacht and you gotta stick around there for that big moment it's probably like the top top five turkistan movie you think so what else is on the list no um it's it's it's it's promising payoff in in in fast relief you know there's always this expectation that you can't turn away which i feel like a lot of commercials work this way.

I feel like a lot of editing when you're watching live sports works this way. The inability to let you break your concentration from the sporting event. Movies are not this way, but this does feel like a functional choice given that it's Netflix. Well, I think Amanda's point about it being in the daylight

and using a lot of real cities that people recognize or it differentiates this from something like, say, another really good action movie like John Wick where I really love the John Wick movies. The John Wick movies make a lot

more sense than Six Underground, but Six Underground kind of shits on the John Wick movies because you're just like, this seems like it's happening in Hong Kong. This seems like it's happening in Florence. This seems like shit is exploding in a major metropolitan European

city. And the sort of gun-fu style that Sahelski and Leach kind of revolutionized with John Wick Wick which is influenced by those John Woo movies that you're talking about and the raid

and stuff like that is very balletic and very choreographed and very specific and it's fast but it's all purposeful this is a different kind of movie making

like it's it's way more frenetic and like the the shots actually don't match you know we were talking after we saw the movie that opening chase scene where, you know,

this lime green sports car is racing and sort of sliding against other cars and getting scraped. And then the next cut, there are no scrapes on the car because there's just too many shots. There's too much going on. There's too much noise. There's no way to make the movie cut together to make a logical sense.

So if you watch movies and you're like, this has to be perfect. There can be no mistakes. And you, Chris, you pointed out in one of the Transformers movies, notoriously, there's a scene where one of the female characters is running and in one shot she's running and she's wearing high heels and in the next shot she has no shoes on. Then in the next shot she has her high heels on again. Those mistakes happen in these movies and you have to accept them. If you don't accept them as part of the insanity of the process, then you're going to have a harder time with the movie. But they matter less in this because there's so much going on

that it kind of washes over you. I do think, I kind of tuned out in one of the set pieces. It was late. I was a little hungry and I was like trying to think about, and then I tuned back in and I was like, okay,

so people are fighting again and you don't actually, because there's a lack of coherence in a lot of different ways you just kind of are on board with it and and you can which which i think will work well for netflix because people will like look and be engaged when they're looking at it and if you miss something it's okay also i mean just think of the number of screen grabs of all the mistakes that will instantly be memed that people will have a great time with oh it's a great point great point. I hadn't thought of that, but we'll be able to instantaneously be able to capture that. It's like Easter eggs. We can also do the, like, we can make juxtaposed memes where

we're doing like the Scarlett Johansson, Adam Driver fight, but then it's actually like a cut away to Melanie and Laurent and then Adam Driver punches the wall. I can't wait for the Melanie and Laurent. We're getting to Melanie. A couple of more things that make this a unique Michael Bay experience. This movie is very gross. Yeah, I didn't like this part of it. Michael Bay movies are amazingly violent. They are fascistically violent and kind of insane and immoral. But this movie, there's more blood splatter. There's more viscera than in any of his movies.

I can't totally figure out why. It wasn't nauseating. It felt more like Sam Raimi to me. It felt like pop art, like gore, rather than like extreme headshot violence. Although early in the movie, there is a lot of like first person shooter stuff, which clearly he just like abandoned

midway through the movie. But like in the beginning, I was like, oh man, is this going to be like his video game movie? Some weird fucking video game thing that's supposed to, and it was really strange because we walked out of the movie theater and for some reason there was a video game movie. Some weird fucking video game thing that's supposed to, and it was really strange because we walked out of the movie theater

and for some reason there was a video game live event happening in the lobby of the movie theater. And I was just like, holy crap, like there's just a dude drinking a Big Gulp playing like a first person shooter. And I was like, you should have been in that movie, man. You would have loved it. But yeah, he abandons that kind of perspective.

I thought that a lot of the stuff in Italy and throughout the movie was just like, how can I push this to the maximal level? There's so much CGI in this movie too. There is. There's one scene in particular where building materials fall from a building during a chase sequence that is the most,

I thought it was one of the most genius ideas for an action sequence, but was so held back by the fact that it was so CGI. Yeah, there's no way you could do that without multiple people dying. It was steel beams falling from like a 70-floor building and landing on cop cars. There's no way to actually make that movie. You know, the one thing, the one point I wanted to make about him before we go any further is he's never going to get credit for this because people are like,

this guy's a gross idiot and they don't want to give him credit. But he was ahead of not just the comic book franchise revolution, but also a very particular kind of action movie making that much more quote-unquote respectable filmmakers like Christopher Nolan adopted and then stripped down. And the famous sequence where the truck flips over in the dark night is a riff on a Bay convention. And when you see them sparingly

in these sort of more prestigious executions of these movies, they feel more special. And Bay's execution is like the opposite of that. He's like, I don't need one flipping truck. I need 75 flipping trucks in the next five minutes. And he literally gives it to you. I mean, in the chase sequence, how many cars flip over in the first five minutes. And he literally gives it to you. I mean, in the chase sequence, how many cars flip over in the first 17 minutes of the movie?

It's got to be north of 20. Yeah, and when that happens, you're like, man. One of the things I found myself really wondering throughout the film is like, well, I was like, it's kind of like putting Flight of the Valkyries in the middle of the movie. Like, how are you going to top that? There's no way you can top that. And then I was like, oh, yeah, you're just going to add gonna add f-16s you know like you're just gonna add fighter jets

and magnets and all this other shit and it just like completely keeps one up upping itself i want to talk a little bit more about the cast okay i'm a fan of ryan reynolds i feel slightly ashamed to say out loud that i'm a fan of ryan reynolds it's not cool like ryan rey. He is a very smarmy, highly successful agent of franchise Hollywood. And I think there's a lot held against him in that respect. He's also a very handsome guy, married to a very beautiful actress. They seem to have a quote-unquote perfect life. I find him amusing. I think this is like the best possible execution for his amusingness.

It occurred to me when I was watching it exactly what his persona is, which for whatever reason I never thought of before, but it is so clearly guy who looks like Robert Redford with Chevy Chase's personality. And that seems almost unfair that somebody who got to look like that got to just steal that persona. I would look at Joel McHale and be like, oh, Joel McHale is trying to do like, what if Chevy Chase but hot? But this is actually on a whole other level. And this character, which should be so self-serious and absurd, this billionaire who's a genius inventor who's got all this money and all this emotional weight behind his do-gooding probably shouldn't be like Detective Pikachu. But he's basically just doing Detective Pikachu in the movie. And I enjoyed it. Do you guys care about Ryan Reynolds

at all? I don't think I'm offended by him. I mean, I just am not going to go on the Deadpool thing. But that's more a genre of pop culture and fandom that I'm not interested in. You know, Ryan Reynolds can do what he wants. I think it's a little unfair to Robert Redford. We don't have to get into this hot actor wars right now. But let me just go ahead and say that there's a difference aesthetically between Robert Redford and Ryan Reynolds. It's really the only thing I want to know.

Who's a better comp? On this podcast. Harrison Ford? I guess so. Because he's trying to do the Indiana Jones thing, right? Like where it's like I'm laughing as I'm. The thing about Ryan Reynolds, which is in keeping with everything you just described of him, he looks a little Ken doll. He is very plastic.

He is unfair, but just generically handsome in a sort of unmemorable way. And so that fits and you can plug him into any franchise and have him like Wisecrack and he looks great in a suit and he looks great in the suits and this and he looks great in. He was wearing some Bond khakis and that was nice for him as well so i it's not ryan reynolds very handsome i just did the best yeah i just was mad about the robert redford thing i think he's good in this movie i laughed at some of the things he is in a different movie than the team that he has assembled for sure He is in a different movie than the team that he has assembled. For sure. Who are in a different movie than the villains

that they are fighting. Who are in a different movie than everything that's happening around them. He might even be in a different movie than the Brian Reynolds who does the voiceover

throughout the movie. Yes, that's true. Yeah. So there's that. I mean, we definitely just skipped over the part how this movie makes absolutely no sense

like at all even for a Michael Bay movie? Well, I'll just say the reason that... Can I just say one more thing about Ryan Reynolds? Yeah, of course. I think if the last 10 to 12 years have taught us anything, it's that it's easier to teach funny people to do action than it is to teach action people to do funny.

So, Downey Jr., Chris Pratt, Ryan Reynolds, all funny guys in their own way. And it's just like, just put them on keto you know yeah and I think that is it keto or keto I actually don't know

Bobby can you weigh in on this I believe it's keto thanks Bobby thanks Bobby glad to be of assistance the only person who would have ever possibly attempted keto that I know

is Bobby this movie was written by Paul Wernick and Rhett Reese and you mentioned Deadpool they obviously are the scribes behind Deadpool and I my impression of the movie is it doesn't matter is Bobby. This movie was written by Paul Wernick and Rhett Reese and you mentioned Deadpool. They obviously are the scribes behind Deadpool. And my impression of the movie is it doesn't matter

if the movie makes sense. Yeah. And all it matters is that what Chris is saying that a funny guy gets to do an action movie. And, you know, it's not that the concept

is incoherent. It's just libertarian as you say, Chris. But I feel like the whole point of those guys working on this movie so that he could be on set with ryan reynolds and just feed him jokes yeah and he's good at delivering their jokes now you may not like deadpool but he's just doing yeah if deadpool was bruce wayne you know that's kind of what the bit is and i don't know i enjoyed it i'm i'm not above it that's all like say. We're done? We're not talking about it anymore?

What else should we say about Ryan Reynolds? Oh. He's, like, arguably the most important actor in Hollywood. Sure. I mean, he, like, transcends a lot of the stuff that we say you can't do anymore. Important is a strong word. Successful, possibly. A lot of movies that wouldn't have worked without him hinge on him.

You know, like, the Deadpool thing should not work. And it does consistently work. a lot of movies that wouldn't have worked without him hinge on him you know like the Deadpool thing should not work and it does consistently he's also a really interesting example of a guy who's clearly betting on himself you know like there are some there's some ways of doing movie stardom and being an actor where you're just like I'm just gonna work with the best people I'm just always gonna try and work with like these really smart directors and really savvily put myself in a position to be recognized by my peers and the press and everything. And he obviously is just like, I think that I'm what sells these movies.

I don't think that Tim Miller needs to make the second Deadpool movie. I don't think that I will be cowed by Michael Bay's style. I will get my personality across. I don't necessarily, I wonder whether or not he was like, I should do a VO for Six Underground because otherwise there's not enough me. I'm not saying he did do that, but there's so much Ryan Reynolds because of this voiceover.

Like Sean mentioned, every 20 minutes he checks in and he has like a little three-page monologue that he does. Yeah, I should say too, like this is a fairly recent turn of events. Like, Ryan Reynolds actually was sort of notorious for being a huge failure, for being a Ken doll-esque funny guy who couldn't make one movie that anyone liked. And it took Deadpool to change that. Now, he made a couple of small movies that I really like.

I love Mississippi Grind. I think that's one of the all-time great gambling movies. And I think if he wanted to do what you're saying, if he wanted to, like, Jake Gyllenhaal it and say, like, actually, I was in Prince of Persia. That was a bad idea. What I should do is work with auteurs, find great scripts, only pursue that kind of work. He would have had an interesting career and not a lot of money.

Instead, he was like, no. He's doing the downy. He's doing the downy. Yeah. It's a much more modern version of movie star pursuit. Deadpool and Detective Pikachu and Hobbs and Shaw earlier this summer and Six Underground is,

these are very purposeful choices that are quote unquote working. Now, whether or not this movie works is probably up for a different kind of definition. He's probably the single most seen actor. Yes. In 2019. These are branding activities. Even including all the MCU guys, which is quite something. And soon he will be in the MCU because Fox was purchased by Disney. So that's how long before we catch him in an

Avengers movie. It feels inevitable. Let's talk more about the rest of the cast. Melanie Laurent. Wow. I don't Paul Bettany in Da Vinci Code just like Opus Dei-ing myself. Melanie Laurent in this movie.

What's she doing in this movie, you think? What was her thinking when she was like, I need to take this role? Was it like, I need to get a second house in the French Riviera?

I think there is probably some financial incentive and I think there's also just like, I'm a French person. Auteur theory, baby. Yeah, auteur theory. And also,

I don't care. Like these, you know, I would like to be in a silly American thing. So I think that this is fun for her. And if you're going to do it, do this. Yeah. If you're going to like,

if you're going to be in a candy colored, spray painted graffiti of immorality and debased military industrial complex propaganda, do fucking this one. You know? I liked what she did with it. I enjoyed her the whole time. You're underselling this.

Well, I want people to watch the film. Okay. I want them to watch her in white lingerie on a bed. You're making it sound like she's like ScarJo in like... This is not the spoiler-free version of this podcast, because I don't know family. No, she's fantastic. Her character makes no sense.

And much like every other figure in the movie, to search for meaning, because there's no Melanie Laurent career arc to examine. There is the Ryan Reynolds. She's a great actor. Every five years, she gets to be in Inglourious Bastards or Beginners or something where you're like, I just like her.

I just want to be around her. This is the weirdest possible use for her. But there's no downside there's just no downside she looks great she's wearing a tux she just is like in the middle of a desert and by a sports car for some reason I do feel like if stealing out headshots dudes if you're gonna be if you want to be an actor like if you if that is an aspiration for you I feel like deep down somewhere inside of you you want to be leaning against a sports car like filmed by Michael Bay you want that level of objectification and also glorification decontextualize from any narrative

it's just like oh I get to have this piece of like ephemera with me for the rest of my life my children will see once mom stood in the middle of a desert while Lamborghinis like drove up to her. What about Dave Franco? Paycheck? I guess so. I feel like he's having a real say yes to everything. What's the downside?

Year or two years. I think he and Ryan Reynolds are a bit too much like two guys looking in a mirror. They don't have a lot of chemistry. I didn't think so either. The timing was not on. Yeah, they're two the same. They're driving 75 miles per hour through. But they're not.

Oh, yeah. That's a good point. They're sitting on a truck somewhere. They were trying to be in the realism of the moment. Right. Yeah. So he was okay. The one who really struck me is Peyman Mahdi.

For those of you who are not familiar with Peyman Mahdi, he is the star of many of Asghar Farhadi's films, the Iranian filmmaker. He also appeared in 13 Hours, The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi. He sure did. He's a wonderful actor. He's from Tehran.

He's been in some American productions, but he's best knownhran. He's been in some American productions, but like he's best known for these very sophisticated, quiet stories of families being torn apart that Farhadi makes. And halfway through this movie, he plays the brother

of an evil dictator in this movie. I turned to, to Zach, your husband, Amanda, and I was like, yo,

Zach, that's the dude from A Separation. And it's just an amazing thing again much like Melanie much like Dave certainly like Ryan Reynolds I suspect the paycheck

was nice he does perfectly fine work I would say the arc of his character is a bit confusing yes he is

jet streamed into righteous leadership rather quickly. How do I talk about that without spoiling it much more? He's just, he's vying for the presidency of Turkestan with his evil brother. And the six underground have chosen him. Did you think those guys were credible brothers?

Those two, like visually? Yeah. No, I didn't think that anything about Turkestan was well thought out. That's well said. It's not ideal. Including the name. Yeah. I mean, it felt very throwback-y in that respect.

Hard-gy or soft-y? It was changing throughout the movie. That was one thing. They couldn't even get the... Turkestan or Turkestan? Yeah. I think Turkestan. Definitely, they were saying Turkestan at some point in the movie.

They could have also said Turgistan. It's tough. I think we'd be remiss if we didn't talk about what Netflix is doing right now. What a run for those guys. That's literally what he wrote down in the document. Did he really? Yes, he wrote Netflix's run. This is the title of this section.

When do you want to talk about Skydance, though? We'll get there. Skydance is back. Thanksgiving. The Irishman december 6th marriage story december 13th six underground the two popes december 20th never in the history of major motion pictures has one studio released in four consecutive weekends films of this magnitude never it's unprecedented.

It seems dumb because you can go home and put it on your TV and it doesn't feel like a big deal. But truly, RKO can fuck right off. Columbia, nothing.

Louis Mayer, peace out. Rolling in his grave and then hitting next episode, please. Yes, truly weak. I want to read a piece of information

I found on Wikipedia that is almost certainly dubious. Is this the Turkestan entry? It's not about Turkestan. The film's production reportedly cost $150 million, the second most expensive film in the Netflix platform since... Bright. That's exactly right. Will Smith's Bright.

That is a lie that this movie cost $150 million. How much do you think it cost? I honestly think it costs $300 million. I think it costs twice as much. Unless all of it is VFX. I would absolutely believe that. Every shot is on location, even if the country is made up.

Every shot is from a helicopter. The camera work is, it feels like there are 40 cameras on every sequence. Even if you stipulate that a lot of it is VFX and they can do incredible things with computers, I hear. But just the amount of chopper shots, like helicopter shots he does, you do understand that if he misses

it the first time around, they have to turn a helicopter around. It takes a long time. And I have no idea what the production, based on some of the socio-political, geopolitical storylines that they're touching on, it seems like this movie has some of the socio-political, geopolitical storylines that they're touching on, it seems like this movie has been in the works for quite a while.

But, like, the amount of time it must have taken just to shoot the most basic sequences where they're just, like, fucking jet flies over, but there's a helicopter going over the jet, and then there's like nine dolly shots of a guy walking into an abandoned plane. And it's like, that would take, that's like all of Marriage Story.

All the money that you would have used to make Marriage Story is in like one shot of this movie. I say fine. What else are you going to spend it on, Netflix? Spend it on this. This is a monument to excess. And in many ways, what Netflix has been doing as a corporation has been a monument to excess, to technocracy.

And I'm cool with it. I think all that is true, that Netflix does a lot. And this movie also does a lot. I do wonder what it's like watching it at home versus watching it where we were. We watched it together in a theater that was so loud. It was so loud. But that is part of the point. I also feel like I'm not unlike the conversation around Irishman, which I was not a good Catholic in my watching. I watched it in two

nights. But if you stop watching this, I don't know if it will make any sense. Like part of it is you have to kind of just do it for two hours and then not think about it too much. But if you pick it up again after 45 minutes, you're going to wait what why are we in afghanistan i agree with this i the idea that is it so incoherent that if you're watching at home you're just like i don't really understand what's going on because visually it's like a piece of art right it's like a fine art you're just kind of like it's it's like going to a exhibit at moma and you're just like i can't believe this is going on. But at home, you need something to keep you going from scene to scene. And I do wonder whether, like, if the explosions kind of become numbing at a point and you're just like, I do not understand why they're doing this,

whether that's an ideal viewing experience for something. We should do, like, the viewing guide like they did for Irishman. Yeah. Like, after 41 minutes, you can stop. I don't, I just, it's not ideal for the netflix experience my advice to you is if you have a you know a big sound bar to make sure it's connected to your television put it on the biggest television you have treat it like you would treat apocalypse now not because apocalypse now is is the same piece of art six underground six underground has

a long way to go before it can get to the apocalypse. Both movies are about some guys. They're about dudes on a mission. Yeah. They're both about dudes on a mission. And Melanie Laurent. But, and also,

you know, the extended cut of Apocalypse Now is what happens when the French travel to Asia and make bad choices. So they have something else in common. Okay. But you just gotta,

you can't watch it on your phone, you can't watch it on your iPad, you can't watch it on your laptop. I'm not saying that to scold people who watch things that way. I think in general, people can watch whatever they want, whenever they want.

I don't really care. But if you want to invest in this movie, it doesn't make sense to try to do it on an iPad. Can I just say that you have been a lot more stringent about how people can watch Six Underground than you are about The Irishman? That's true.

And that's you, and we're proud of you and are proud to share this airspace with you. You're the vulgar podcaster. I just want to note that that is a true thing that happened. I just really, any movie experience where I want to turn to my friends and be like, can you believe this shit? That's a good movie to me.

It doesn't make it a useful piece of art, but it's a good movie. I just want to be, I just want to be tantalized. You know? There's nothing wrong with that. What can,

how in the world are they going to measure success for this? Like, even if there are like 80 million people watch this in its first week. Like, there,

it doesn't seem like the kind of movie that actually will get them new subscribers, or am I wrong about that? It's a good question. I've given this some thought. I do think it does one thing, which is that Netflix's brand is not very male, and it has become more male with movies like The Irishman. And, you know, there are some TV shows that I think fit the bill there, but for the most part, it's kind of gender neutral, I would say. I wouldn't say it's like overtly feminine in any way. It's not like Lifetime where they're targeting an audience, but the kind of content that they have is friendly for families. It's friendly for people increasingly who like episodic television

and sort of reality slash competition television. And it's very sort of like documentary immersive friendly where people just want to like put something on and learn stuff for six hours. It doesn't have that muscular, masculine ideal that Bay pursues. And that's not really like a very invoked thing at all, but it is still a thing that drives a lot of business and entertainment. You know, we've kind of shifted to like MCU and nerd culture taking over this sort of thing. But there is still an appetite, I think, for movies like this. And frankly, even more so if people don't have to go to the movie theater for it.

I think they're actually excited about the idea of getting a kind of a kick-ass action movie at home, especially if they're rich guys who've got 70-inch screens in their house. I think all of that is true. The counterargument is that I think outside of this podcast,

Six Underground will probably not be reviewed super well. No. No. And I just am curious. You know, I don't want to go out on a limb, but I don't think everyone has out on a limb yeah but i don't

think everyone has this movie's incoherent elastic of mind it's incoherent it's morally bankrupt yeah we didn't even really talk about that because this is apparently we turned this into a spoiler free podcast like 30 minutes into it sorry guys but uh yeah we are aware of that plot line and we're available to discuss it at a later time. Anyway, if this movie isn't reviewed well and the poster, as we were all noting before the screening started, is like a joke. It's like a child

with Microsoft Paint to it. And this movie just doesn't seem at all serious. Like, is it going to be the kind of thing that people are like, oh, yeah, I'll join Netflix.

It looks like a Melissa McCarthy movie on the poster. Yeah, it does. So what is a win then? What do you guys think is considered success? I don't know. If 80 million people watch this on Netflix and they sign up however many, I mean, I guess new subscribers is the thing that's a win for them.

But do they release that information? I don't even think there's a lot of awareness of this movie. I feel like I'm doing more advocacy than most movies that we talk about on this show. There's next to none. I mean, I think that literally there is like a cohort at our company of people who are like, I can't wait. Bring me the six. And then I don't think anyone knows this is happening.

But I don't know if that matters because they're just going to slot it into the homepage on Netflix and things will just start exploding as soon as you open the Netflix app for a large number of people. And, you know, most people aren't like us with their little like nerdy release calendars. They just open up the thing and are like, what can I watch? And they're all going to be home for Christmas and they're all going to be bored and they're all going to be like, what should I watch? Or they can download it and watch it on their flights home. You know what? Maybe that's why. Shout out to my husband who we walked out of this movie and he's like, there weren't as many boobs as I would have thought for Michael Bay without any restrictions. But maybe it's because they want people to watch it with their families.

And as soon as you see that, I don't know. Just my thought. It's perfectly okay to put a flashbang grenade in someone's mouth and blow their head off. But one breast. Yes. Welcome to America in 2019. Also, there are so many butt shots. Like there are so many shots that open with like a woman walking across the screen.

Like, and it's just like she's wearing like, yeah, it's like a, it's like a bad. Yeah, it leaves a lot to the imagination. I mean, I'm just saying. From, from boom to boobs. We really, we covered it all here, guys. This has been a conversation about Six Underground. Chris, thanks for your generosity. Thanks for having me, guys. You really, you showed us what's at the heart of the fascist male in this country.

Chris Ryan is gone, but Amanda and I are still here. Amanda, we're going to talk quickly about the SAG Awards. The nominations came out this week. Some interesting revelations here. What did you make of how the Screen Actors Guild decided to put this awards race in a new direction? It's their right. And I mostly was disappointed in myself because there were a couple things that happened, especially in the outstanding performance by a cast in a motion picture,

which is the SAG Awards version of Best Picture. It's the Ensemble Award. That I had even predicted, and I let the Golden Globes knock me off the strength of my convictions, and then I should have stuck with them. And I'm speaking specifically about Bombshell, which was nominated for the Ensemble Performance, and Charlize Theron was nominated for Best Actress, which was nominated for the ensemble performance. And Charlize Theron was nominated for Best Actress, which she is a lock.

Margot Robbie was nominated for Best Supporting Actress, which we have also been predicting. And Nicole Kidman was also nominated for Supporting Actress. And I had this on my original Best Picture predictions because I was like, actors will love this movie. And then Golden Globes didn't love it. And I was like, oh, but, actors will love this movie. And then Golden Globes didn't love it. And I was like, oh, but of course actors love this movie. And of course, this is still in the race. And I think that that is an important thing to remember is that a large number of actors vote for the Academy Awards. It's by far the biggest body out of all the

various guilds. And you're completely right. I didn't see it coming either, but it makes total sense. You've got a lot of really winning people. I didn't see it coming either, but it makes total sense. You've got a lot of really winning people. In Charlize and Nicole Kidman, you've got two people who are frequently honored, who are really, there's a ton of respect for both of them. And in Margot Robbie, you have somebody who's basically just picking up the mantle that Nicole Kidman started like 25 years ago. She's kind of having her career in a very similar fashion.

She's got a lot of control of the projects that she picks. She's really talented. She's beautiful. And she's trying to make a statement about the kind of actor that she wants to be with every part that she picks. And it's paying off. The Nicole Kidman nomination in the supporting category is

a clear indication to me that there's way more support for the movie than I originally thought. Supporting actress, not the strongest category here in the first place something we talked about during our Golden Globes conversation so that might also be a factor but it's a big boost for Bombshell also a big boost for Jojo Rabbit yeah I mean this is the other thing where we were like oh I guess Jojo Rabbit's fading and we should have known better same deal I mean why do you think that actors like Jojo Rabbit so much because isn't it daring what you can do when you can play anybody I mean this is like legit Scarlett Johansson, you know, I should be able to play a

tree stuff, like taken to its extreme, that Taika Waititi should be able to play Hitler, which actors clearly believe, but they believe it so much that they nominated Scarlett Johansson in the best supporting category for Jojo Rabbit, along with Scarlett Johansson in the Best Actress Category for Marriage Story. Very rare. I don't expect that to be the case at the Oscars. I think she'll only get the Marriage Story nomination, but we'll have to keep an eye on it. I do think that the one thing that we agreed on

with Jojo Rabbit that we liked is the kids in the movie are very good, and they're very funny and charming, and I don't hate Jojo rabbit i just it just didn't really work on me like i i felt like it wasn't very funny and it also wasn't very moving and if you kind of have to be one or the other for a movie of this kind you know i i i appreciate that they were trying to take a chance on something, but it just never clicked. I would agree with that. And I think part of my resistance to it, at least, was like I was not ready for four months of Jojo Rabbit discourse. And we've avoided a couple of those at this point.

The most they can give us now is two months of Jojo Rabbit discourse. And I don't even know if we're going to get that because it still feels like a happy to be here situation. I agree. It feels like it's running in like sixth or seventh place, which if you had asked me two months ago, I would have said it wasn't going to be in the top three. You know, I think what remains there in terms of winners is some of the big guys that we already know. We know that The Irishman is going to do very well at the Oscars.

We know that Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is going to do very well at the Oscars. They were both nominated for ensemble. One movie that we assume is going to do well, but this is probably official confirmation, is Parasite. Yes. Which, it's highly unusual for a foreign language film

to get the Ensemble cast nomination. Highly unusual. I think Life is Beautiful was the last time. Yes. 21 years ago. And I believe this is only the second time in the SAG Awards history. So, that's like... That's great news. If you're worried about it hitting Best Picture, SAG Awards history. So that's like.

That's great news. If you're worried about it hitting best picture, like it's in. It's in. It's going to happen. Don't say that. I feel confident. I mean, just don't jinx it. Let's say it, but don't jinx it.

That's what I meant. It would be quite an upset. I don't know. I was here just being like, goodbye, bombshell. Goodbye, Jojo Rabbit, like two days ago. And now I have to be like, I was wrong. But those movies still feel like they're fortunate to be in the race. Whereas Parasite is the movie that a lot of film Twitter has their heart in.

And a lot of regular Hollywood seems to have their heart in, which is pretty cool. I mean, I don't know. There is just not, there's no precedent for this. Everything that you're saying is true. And I just refuse to get my hopes up. I've had them crushed before. A few of the birds in my life, a few of the Academy birds are like, watch out. It's going to win. Watch out. That'd be great. I have no

idea how credible that is, but it's happening. Christian Bale. Here he is. He was there for the Globes and he's here for the SAG Awards. Actors fucking love Christian Bale. They really do. They're like, this guy is a unicorn. He can do anything. And even though he's basically playing an elevated race car driving version of himself,

people love that too. Yeah. We should also just note that Taron Egerton, your hard work paid off, buddy. You campaigned. And you glad hand. Yes. And here you are. How many times do you think Taron Egerton has applied Purell to his hands after shaking people's hands this year?

I don't know that Brits are as germ conscious as we are, but I hope a lot. Oh. You know. I'm such an ugly American. I'm just saying. Lupita Nyong'o. This is great. She bounced back from getting snubbed by the Globes.

That's nice. Cynthia Erivo. Big week for Cynthia Erivo. Yeah, feels like that's kind of hardening. That race, she might have a space there. Interesting to see what happens with Best Actress. I still think that's a slightly confusing category to me. Losers.

There's a tough one here for you. Yeah, it's Outlook Not Good for Little Women. Why do you think this is? This is a true ensemble piece. I have some unkind thoughts and some thoughts that I'll share, which I think it is probably it's coming out on Christmas Day and people haven't seen it in the same way that they've seen a lot of these other movies. And I think also it's there's resistance to a period drama adaptation that's been made before. I think there are a lot of people who are just like, why do I need to see this? And that's a bummer.

But it just kind of is what it is. And those two together maybe just mean that it doesn't have the reach. I'm not counting it out yet. Yeah. The Oscar race is longer than this race. We don't even have Oscar shortlist yet. You know, we don't even know what the voting is going to be like. And in fact, the way that things happen at the Globes will have a significant impact on people, how people vote. And I think the movie is probably going to be a hit, which will be helpful, even

though the season has been has been shortened this year and there's not as much time to kind of stew on these things. It is notable, like, Saoirse didn't even get nominated in the Best Actress category. That's really weird. Yeah. Also a bit surprising is the absence of the two popes here.

No nominations for Jonathan Pryce or Anthony Hopkins. And that's not a good sign. The two popes, obviously, shot out of a cannon at Telluride. People were like, this is the sleeper surprise that, you know,

we thought it was going to be Jojo Rabbit. You thought it was going to be a beautiful day in the neighborhood or Joker. It's actually the two popes. This is the feel good movie that's going to take over. And it really hasn't happened. It really, it got a little bit of a bounce from the Golden Globes. But. I mean, it's late again.

I just honestly think late December is too late to let people see our movie. What about the farewell? This one's a bummer yeah i've always been a little dubious of this this movie's power in the big race okay um we'll see what happens marriage story in 1917 now why do you have these on the list here they were not nominated an ensemble and what does that mean it doesn't actually mean very much i think it was pointed out that the ensemble and Best Picture normally do overlap, but the two exceptions are the last two winners for Best Picture, which are Shape of Water and Green Book,

which were not nominated in the Best Ensemble SAG category, and won Best Picture. Yeah, and I wonder if that means that all this prognosticating and analysis that we've just been doing for the last 10 minutes is meaningless because the Academy is changing so much that maybe SAG doesn't mean as much as it once did. I think we found that in general, that even the last couple of years when we tried to apply historical analysis, the exceptions are always in the last five years. Yeah. Because the Academy is changing and how we watch movies is changing as well.

Yeah. And as you note here, Adam Driver, Scar Jo, and Laura Dern were all individually nominated, so despite no best ensemble, even though the movie does have a great ensemble, Alan Alda and Merritt Weaver and Ray Liotta, there's so many great performances in the movie. It kind of makes sense because it's such a centerpiece performance kind of movie, and it also really just feels like Laura Dern is going to win. Yes. Which, I don't know, just feels like a repeat of last year's supporting actress race with Regina King. Where it's just like, this is done. She's got it. This is going to be boring for the next three months. I don't know.

It's not a bad thing. I love Laura Dern. Who doesn't love Laura Dern? Right. She's literally a genius actress to me. But it just makes it less interesting. No Robert De Niro here. Correct.

He's getting the SAG Lifetime Achievement Award. So he'll be there. He'll be there. It was helpfully pointed out to me by a few people that he's also a producer of The Irishman, so he's being recognized at the Globes, even though he wasn't nominated for Best Actor. But two in a row is not a great sign. And Best Actor is very competitive. And I thought he would have been a lock.

And both Pesci and Pacino were nominated here at SAG. Could he slip out? I think it's possible. It's not the flashiest performance in that movie. And a lot of people are very mad at how he moves or something. I don't know. I read your takes. I don't like them, but I read them.

You shouldn't be revealing that. You shouldn't be telling people that you're looking, that you know how they feel. Everyone knows that I prepare, you know? And here's the other thing. If you put information out there, then it's something I can use against you at some point. So I'm going to collect all the information. It feels very dangerous to be podcasting with you. Next week, Amanda and I will be back.

We'll be talking about Richard Jewell and Bombshell and maybe a few other things that are happening with the Oscars. Now let's go to my conversation with the actor, Paul Walter Hauser. I'm delighted to be joined by the star of Richard Jewell, Paul Walter Hauser. I'm delighted to be joined by the star of Richard Jewell, Paul Walter Hauser. Thanks for being here, man. Of course, Sean.

Thanks for having me. Paul, where'd you come from? Tell me about your life. I feel like a lot of people saw you in I, Tonya, but this is your first big-time leading role. I don't think people know a lot about you. I want to hear who you are. Well, I was one of the original garbage pail kids, but thanks to a lawsuit, I was able to get some constructive sort of cosmetic surgery. So what you see before you, this is as good as

it's going to get. I apologize for this appearance. No, I was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan, son of a pastor and a teacher. i have three siblings i grew up in saginaw michigan near flint which i'm sure you're most um aware of unfortunately uh for the wrong reasons and um just kind of grew up lower to middle class uh protestant and was obsessed with movies and just went from loving comedy with jim carrey chris farley robin williams into I think the first movie that had an impression on me was A Few Good Men. And that was like where I was like, okay, well, now I'm going to start watching grown-up movies at the age of 10, 11 years old. One of our favorites here.

Oh, man, I can quote the whole stupid movie. It's amazing. Maybe we shouldn't waste our time doing that, but I could do the same. What is it like trying to become an actor and move out to Hollywood coming out of a place like that 10 hut there's an officer on deck Wolfgang Boddison baby going from assistant to supporting actor in a motion picture what happened to him you know what I my buddy Matt Ryan uh this filmmaker dude who's a buddy of mine he did a movie called The Appearing like a low budget uh horror film and Wolfgang Boddison's in it and he's like pretty good mine, he did a movie called The Appearing, like a low budget horror film and

Wolfgang Boddison's in it. And he's like pretty good. Really? Like he's, dude can still act. I think he still works sometimes. I feel like he does like a sliding doors thing where he didn't get the looks that he deserved. No, he didn't. It's really weird. He should have been the next Delroy Lindo and we dropped the ball, Sean. What was your question? I just went nuts. No, no. That's, that's tells me a lot about how you feel about movies. You would fit in really well here. Um, but you're, so you're obsessed with movies and you're living in Michigan and you're like, I'm going to be an actor. This is going to be easy for me. I'm going to get out to Hollywood and I'm going to do, I'm going to be in movies.

I don't know about the easy for me part. I think, I think I, I didn't know if I would ever make it. I just knew I was going to try like insanely to do it. I like one of my favorite movies was and still is Rudy. And that's like, you know, I watched him trying to get into Notre Dame and that's how I felt about Hollywood. I was like, I'm the underdog guy who doesn't look like a movie star and is from the Midwest with no nepotistic contacts. So I, I'm trying to break into this weird, difficult thing that has a really small chance of happening, but it was all immersion. So it was really like watching SNL every Saturday night, reading and writing screenplays, doing standup comedy, getting headshots,

trying to get local representation in the Midwest, going to every movie opening weekend, renting older movies, trying to get familiar with Billy Wilder, Sidney Lumet, stuff like that. It was just total immersion is the word I keep kind of going back to. And then at what point do you start booking real jobs? When do you become a working actor?

I had little like glimpses of stuff happening early on where like I booked a commercial when I was 19, like a local commercial. I remember getting, like a local commercial. I remember getting paid like $600 for what was essentially six, seven hours of work. And I remember thinking, oh my gosh, this isn't, you know, this is real, you know? And, uh, I, I did stand up. So I opened for Pauly Shore and Dave Attell and, and had little tiny gigs here and there. But the big thing was I went to be a background extra in a movie.

It was called Virginia with Jennifer Connelly and Ed Harris. Yeah, I remember that. And I just went to be an extra. They take your photo and they ask, you know, if you have a special skill, if you play the saxophone, we might need that or whatever. So I was there for five minutes, thought I was about to leave, and I saw Dustin Lance Black, the guy who won the Oscar for writing Milk. So all I did was walk up to him and tell him the truth. I spent 45

seconds at most. I just said, hey, man, congrats on your Oscar win. I love Milk. And I love your speech when you said God doesn't hate gay people to the youth of America. I thought that was so beautiful and important to say. So thank you for saying that, man. Congrats. That was it. And he goes, what's your name i almost thought i was in trouble because he looked at me you know kind of sideways and i was like paul hauser and he writes my name down he goes we're gonna bring you back i think there might be a part for you and then i ended up booking the number six on the call sheet behind amy madigan emma roberts toby jones like it was insane that that was my first job, making like 12 grand, working 10, 12 days on a movie in my home state with Oscar winners.

Did you ever ask Dustin what he saw, why he did that? He was like, I just connected to this guy, saw something in this guy. I mean, I had two auditions. I went in with like 15 other locals, 10 or 15 guys. But like these were guys who like might not have even done high school theater. They just kind of looked the part of the sort sort of heavy set bumpkin he was looking for and uh so i was i was like psychotic i was treating it like i was treating the scrimmage like super bowl you know i was i was really dead serious and um so i think he liked my acting in general he got a little teary-eyed in the call back when me and this actor harrison gilbertson did this scene where I'm in jail and we're talking with the plexiglass between us. So that was, you know, he, he said, he said when we premiered at TIFF, he, he had this moment at the Toronto Film Festival where he introduced everybody and he said, out of thousands, there was

one. And I got choked up before he brought me out. Cause I was just like, I didn't, I had no idea that he saw thousands of people for the role. You know, that was insane. So that was my entry into the business. And I moved to LA and got going and had, you know, 10 different day jobs in four and a half years, five years or whatever. I was going to ask you, like, how does one make a living when they're in that phase? I'm always so interested in that time. Well, here's the most messed up part about it. And people, I don't even know if people believe me when I say this, but I'm telling you it's the truth. I remember in 2010, trying to find a day

job because my bank was running low from Virginia. I might've had $3,500 left and rent was like half that. So I went online and just scoured the internet for jobs in or around Hollywood. And I believe the number, if I'm not mistaken, was 62 or 65 jobs I applied for from working security to like making subway sandwiches. I couldn't get a job. And that summer I booked a guest star on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. And that gave me like five or six grand to get me through the summer into the autumn and keep like going paycheck to paycheck. So in truth, living in Hollywood at the age of 23, I had a better shot at getting on television than making your sandwich.

And that's how messed up this town is. This is a real company town, though. That says a lot. That's really interesting. Also, you had a credit on a big movie. I wouldn't say that that's true for every movie. Well, it wasn't a big movie. But it was a well-known though. That says a lot. That's really interesting. Also, you had a credit on a big movie. I wouldn't say that that's true. Well, it wasn't a big movie. But it was a well-known folks. That's true. Yeah. But okay. So was there ever a moment when you were like, I got to leave? I can't hack it. That did happen. You left. I left for a year and 10

months because I ran out of money. It was March of 2011. I'd only been in town a year, maybe less because I was leaving to see family and stuff for holidays. March 2011, I auditioned for a guest star on Bones and I get the call back. Were you a big Bones guy back then? Oh, who isn't? But I'm sort of a big, like I'm an anatomy guy in general. i watch bones i watch flesh i watch thoughts i watch ideology i'm kind of like all over the sure yeah the whole metaphysical experience yeah thank you somebody who gets it um i watch eyes um so so that was meta i watch eyes um it's it was the thing of like i i was just trying to get anything you know i was like the dumb the dumbest job. I was like, okay, I'll take it. I just want to stay here.

And I didn't book the job. I was officially out of money. That guy, Matt Ryan, who I mentioned, who was a filmmaker, I was sleeping on his floor in Hollywood, a hardwood floor with a blanket. And eventually it just got bad and I couldn't stay there. And I called my parents crying and I go, I got to come home. You know, I messed up. So I left for a year and 10 months. I worked at a bowling alley. I worked for one reverse mortgage over at the

Quicken Loan Fellows in Detroit. I worked at a butcher shop in a market. I just floated around, eventually got back to Chicago, did some improv, worked at a Starbucks 40 hours a week, and then came back to LA January 2013. What clicked when you came back? Why did it work this second time? Why did, why were you able to book more jobs? Why were you able to? I was just a better adult.

I think I just lacked maturity. You know, my 23 is probably most people's 19 or 18. If I'm being completely honest, I'm a little stunted. I've always been a little stunted in my maturity. Just now am I sort of figuring things out? But yeah, I came back and just doggedly worked day jobs until I got to quit all my day jobs in March of 2015. So this March will be the five-year anniversary of like only acting for a living. How did you make that decision in 2015 and say like, I did it. I can only do this.

Is it just an accounting question or is there like something emotional that goes into making that choice? It's got a lot more to do with accounting than emotion because emotion tells you, of course, you want to quit in four seconds. But I was working at Flappers Comedy Club at the time in Burbank. I was like a door guy. They treated me incredibly well there. They knew I was kind of

like half miserable. Cause I just wanted to, you know, it's weird when you work in a place too, where like celebrities and actors and people are coming in all the time and no one recognizes you. And they're kind of, some of them even mistreat you and you're kind of like, you, you know, like you're just thinking in your head, you're like, Oh gosh, I just want people to know, you know, it's like seeing the hierarchy in, in real time. It's like, you're like, oh, gosh, I just want people to know, you know. It's like seeing the hierarchy in real time. It's like you're here and they're here. Yeah. It's got to be how those food trucks feel when they go to one of those like parks where there's 30 food trucks.

And there's like 90 million people at the Cousin's Main Lobster. And then they're like, why don't you want my cake pops? You know, like that's. I love cake pops. I do too. Jesus. Damn it. No.

So, yeah, it's that's how I was feeling. So I think I just hit a number. My buddy wrote me into this show called The Night Shift. He gave me a guest star on this procedural. And that was a huge help. That was between doing Kingdom with Frank Grillo and Matt Loria on DirecTV's audience network and doing this guest star. I think I had amassed like, I had about 10 or 15K. And I was like, I think I can kind of keep this going for a minute.

And then what really helped was my manager or my agent, who's now my manager, this guy, Brian Walsh. He, the season one of Kingdom, I was just a co-star. So I was making $1,200 an episode. It was nothing, but I was doing monologues and like killing people. And like, I pulled my pants down. Like I had like intense, dramatic work that I was getting paid co-star money for. So season two, when they asked me back for 14 out of 20 episodes, my agent, who's now my manager said, you got to pay this kid. So they came back with a number

that was like, oh, I i'm gonna be okay it's really amazing who are the people that you aspire to because as you say you're not you're not a you're not a brad pitt type you're not a julia roberts type no also mostly the julia robertson because i'm a guy that's a that's a factor which i think is bull roar excuse my language things are changing right now you know there's a there's a lot of there's a lot of fluidity at the moment but who are the people that you really looked up to as actors? I wish we had more time to talk about fluidity. I'm sick of just shortchanging that entire conversation topic.

Maybe not on this show, but some other show. My guys are Paul Giamatti, John C. Reilly, John Goodman, Sam Rockwell, Peter Sarsgaard, Michael Shannon, Philip Seymour Hoffman. Those are my dudes um i just like the misshapen broken but beautiful character actor who can uh sort of be proficient in comedy and drama that's my thing that's and that's that is exactly the lane that you're pursuing and i feel like itania is like sort of the perfect fusion of those two things that's an ostensibly very serious movie that that you are hilarious in oh thanks man and, man. And I imagine that that was, like, how much of that

can you bring to a movie and say, this is my vision for the kind of parts that I like to play versus what's on the page? Are you able to kind of move inside of the parts

or do you have to just stick to what's there for you? I think it depends on the director. I usually, you know, I've, man, I just have a thing where I don't want to ask

permission. I'd rather ask forgiveness. So I kind of improvise at auditions. I improvise on set. It's about finding, it's about finding the tone and knowing what is vital in the scene. A guy like Vince Vaughn, when he improvises, it's like, um, Hey everybody, we're going to have a party. Yeah. I'm going to talk for 40 minutes. You know, it's a, that everybody we're gonna have a party yeah i'm gonna talk for 40 minutes you know it's a that's a different type of improv my improv is usually five to ten words that are strategically placed to stay within the story and character but to add humor depth you game planning the day before when you're thinking about that not not all it's all of them in the moment it's it's well it's like within the hour before we shoot. Okay. I'm looking over.

I already have it memorized. I have most of it sort of thought out. And then I'm like, oh, that's like, like the perfect example would be, I was looking over my lines for Itania. I had a line in the bar with Sebastian Stan where I say, I know a guy, Derek, charges about a thousand bucks. I'll figure it out for you. And I saw that and I'm like, this guy's trying to be like sneaky. Wouldn't it be funny if he said, I know a guy shouldn't even be saying his name, Derek, just say Derek. So like, that was totally an improv

that I put in there. And then when they yelled cut the whole crew cracked up and the, you know, Steven Rogers, the writer was so gracious he had a perfect script but i kept messing with it and he was fine with it so so yeah no i try to put my stamp on stuff without it feeling um showy and uh and i think kingdom and black clansman and itania were the perfect avenues for me to kind of do that and and and show who i am to maybe have a moment like this and get to kind of star in something yeah you so you you have like a real comic sensibility in all three of those parts yeah and richard jewell i would say is not very funny no i try to play it grounded there's some obvious comedy for sure like uh you know comedy from the truth of certain

things sure situational richard you got a freaking hand grenade in your room? Why don't you show us your, you know, do you have a bombing map or something? Like, you know, there are things that are funny, but I think they're rooted in the truth rather than the sort of playfulness I've employed in the past. Well, help me understand how you became Richard Jewell,

because the movie and the script have been around for a little while. Clint only recently became attached to it. He'd been circling it for four or five years and I think he almost made the version with like Jonah and Leo back in 2014-2015. But yeah, I didn't know anything about the real incident.

I just knew of the project because once again my dumb ass knows more about Hollywood than the real world, which is a problem in and of itself. I'm working on a problem for me as well. I just read Pete Buttigieg and Kamala Harris's autobiographies. That was like a big deal for me. I was like,

I am learning about the people I'm considering voting for. Like I am an adult. You heard that Kamala dropped out though, right? Are you kidding? You're kidding. No, I'm not kidding.

She's out. I'm sorry man breaking news here on the podcast are you being funny i can't tell if you're doing a bit or not i'm not doing a bit she dropped out of the race are you not knowing are we are you doing a bit with me no my gosh no but i would i'm the type of person i know i will inception you until you i've been fucked with on this show i i did not know she dropped out. So this is a perfect metaphor. I like her. Yeah, I like her too. Oh, well. Oh, that sucks. Pete's still there. So you got that information. Well, apparently a ton of people hate Pete Buttigieg, apparently. I like him. Oh, well. Anyway, there is no hope for America. Biden's out punching people

in the face and getting mustard stains on his white shirt. How can we trust this son of a bitch? No, anyway, I found Richard Jewell through sort of, you know, the obvious, which is you watch footage and you go, this is their energy. You can get energy from someone in line at Starbucks. You only need 90 seconds to really vibe someone's energy sometimes. So it was starting with energy, looking at his posture, looking at the moments where he could crack a smirk or a smile or a laugh

versus the moments where he's, uh, you know, drowning in the severity of the situation and sort of just like trying that, that invisible clothing on. And, um, boy, that sounded like some BS actor crap.

The invisible clothing. This is you now, though. You're in an awards race. You're in a Clint Eastwood movie about a real life incident. I'm in an awards race. I'm in an awards race about as much as someone else's, as much as I'm in a marathon race, like running literally. I don't know, man. I wouldn't be stunned. It's a heavy year. I mean, you've already, you already were honored this week. It wasn't. No. I mean, I'm getting these breakthrough things, which is like, Oh, this is, I mean, I didn't expect that.

That was amazing. Getting on lists for IndieWire and the ringer. And like, that does mean something to me. That's, that's, that's wild. Let's go before we get too far into that. I want to hear more about the movie though. What, like, what did Clint say he saw in you to do it? Cause as you said, Jonah was attached for a while. It's, you know, how did it become you? So this is a weird story. And I think this says a lot about Clint, which will clue you into him. You know what, when Robert Pattinson did good time, it was literally because he saw a photo still from a safety movie and contacted them. That's how they have crazy and cool that guy is. So Clint in a similar fashion was gearing up to do a movie in Hawaii.

They were literally past development into pre-pro and scouting, almost casting, I think. And then Jeff Miklat, his casting director and Jessica Meyer, one of his producers printed out a photo of me and a photo of Richard and put them side by side on like a cork board. And they called Clinton to the office, kind of half kidding, because they knew he wanted to make the film. They knew he was sort of looking for a way in to make

it like some missing puzzle piece. And so they half jokingly, half serious were like, hey, is this your Richard Jewell or what? And he looks at it and kind of does a squint and he goes yeah that's the guy that's him give me some give me some tape what was he in what did he do so they jogged his memory and said you know you saw itani and black clansman they showed him the footage or scenes of me again showed him scenes from kingdom and probably a composite of 10 to 15 minutes of footage he went yeah that's the guy so within that week they called me while i was in thailand doing a spike lee movie and said we'd like you for the role richard jewel um which is nuts yeah with that i want to know your reaction to that it's it's it must have been mind-blowing when does this drop

by the way this podcast the day the film will be released, on the 13th. Okay, so... So this Kamala Harris stuff is going to be super old by then. Yeah, there's going to be... Yeah, there's like a weird piece of information. I don't know if I can drop or not yet. But essentially what I'll tell you is this. I was offered a TV deal for a limited series,

to star in a limited series. More lucrative than anything I've ever done in my life. And coming from the background of being a pastor teacher's kid, where their combined salary might've been 50 K and they had four kids in private school. Um, that was like, that was hard to look at and go,

I have to do this or the Clint Eastwood movie. And Clint's movie wasn't an offer. It was a verbal offer because the movie was at Fox, Disney bought Fox and Clint only works at Warner. So they were entangled in sort of a legality thing trying to get that worked out. But they said, this is a verbal offer. You can't do the TV show and the movie they're working at the same time. Um, and there were other similarities that were just undeniable that I couldn't do both. So I said, you know, because I grew up in the church and I'm a Christian, I kind of said, you know, the Bible talks about operating out of fear of love. You can't operate out of both. The two can't like

abide. So I said, fear would tell me to take the money and do the TV show, which is a real offer. But love would tell me you got to work with Clint Eastwood if you get an opportunity to work with Clint Eastwood. So I turned down the TV show. They went out to someone else, a good buddy of mine who's super talented. And that project kept moving. And then I had three weeks alone in Thailand having made that decision waiting to go back to L.A. to find out if the movie was happening or not. So I was in agony. And at that time, I also got a bacterial infection and was vomiting on set of Spike's movie the last couple of days. So like it was it was just a really emotional and physical draining moment for me. And I thought, well, I either turn down six serious figures or I'm starring in a Clint Eastwood movie Like that's the reality. And sure enough to his word,

Clint had me on the Warner Brothers lot early to mid May and said, we're, we're shooting in six weeks gear up. That's an unbelievable story. I feel like that anxiety that that provoked is probably kind of helpful for the part too. Oh yeah. Cause you're trapped in this nether world of not knowing what's going to happen.

And it also never went away. Cause I'm thinking in my head, I'm like, they could have got other dudes for this. They could have got Jesse Plemons. Matt Damon could have put on 50 pounds, whatever. Like there's other ways to make this movie.

But Clint said, you are the guy. You are the only guy who can play this. You're the only one I want playing it. And he just had an instinct. And then as we were filming and we're doing those emotional scenes and stuff, I think a lot more of the producers and cast were kind of like yeah you're the you're the dude man you're the dude it's unbelievable it's weird it's crazy so i guess when you're making a movie like this

are you throwing yourself into the life of the person how are you figuring out how to play a part like this because it feels it does feel authentically different from anything i've seen you in before and i don't how do you transform i mean i can i think you've seen me play a lot of just sort of like lethargic buffoons and stuff so i do that well and i'm happy to do it for a long time but there's a ton of shit i can play i mean mean, I can, there are things people don't, there's things my family don't know about me that I can do. You know, like I, I think, I think we all have pieces of us that may or may not come out in our lifetime, you know? And I think being an actor is really fun cause you get to show all that. Um,

and you know, on my Instagram page, I, I, I literally do characters all the time, like an SNL audition. I'm just like, whatever funny, weird thing comes to mind that I would share with a close friend, I put up on Instagram all the time. And sometimes they're serious and sometimes they're dumb. And sometimes they're me literally doing my take on the penguin, trying to audition for the new Robert Pattinson Batman movie, you know, like, um, so, so, you know, I don't think you got the part. I don't think I did either. I'm sorry. I think I break it to you. Listen, a beautiful dark eyed, a beautiful dark eyed man with a widow's peak got it. And, and I totally get the choice. It's tough. He doesn't look like the penguin. I'm just putting that out there. Yeah, but Heath Ledger didn't look like the Joker. That's true. That's true. You i can all transform you transformed into richard jewell i love colin farrell um when i played richard jewell it was very very much just trying to get the the energy the mannerisms the voice was a whole thing because

if you look him up on youtube and listen to him speak it's way more and i don't say this to be offensive i'm just trying to pinpoint it for everyone his southern accent is on a cartoonish level yeah it's country yeah yeah it's it's real country yeah it's country strong gwyneth paltrow hashtag gwyneth paltrow um it's uh it's incredibly strong and i i heard maher shalali because i'm such an actor like fanboy i heard him in all these interviews say that when he did green book he had to lower the register of the high pitch voice of the guy he played. And he said, you know, he didn't want the voice to be distracting. And I thought that is smart. And Pete Sarsgaard did the same thing playing Bobby Kennedy and Jackie. He's like, I'm not going to do an impression or a caricature of the Kennedy,

you know, accent. So I just figured I have to really, you know, find my between place between my voice and Richard's and honor it without it being distracting. So once I caught that, it was like, that was a big load off. Once that, once I found that voice, it was, it was a lot easier as far as the emotion, you know, and having those serious moments with Kathy and Sam, that's just not hard to do when you have Clint Eastwood staring at you and you're working with Sam and Kathy who both have statues. I mean, that's like wondering how you want a basketball game when you have like, you know, Dirk and Nash on your bench.

Like that's like... Yeah, but that's the thing is you're the fulcrum of the movie. You're not, they're on the bench and you have to run. And I said before we started taping, like those scenes to me are when the movie is just completely alive is when there's all this anxiety in the room and the three of you guys interacting. It's just so great. I guess I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm curious about Clint because there's so much mythology about the

way that he makes movies and one or two take Clint and the efficiency of his sets. Like, did it live up to as a, as a, as a movie nerd, what you expected it to be? How was it different? If you ever call me a nerd again, I will flip this table like Christ in the temple. I'm sorry. I'm kidding. I am a big time nerd and being with Clint was, it should have been more intimidating than it was.

He just sort of has a way of reminding you that he's, he's a guy, you know, he's, he's just dude. He, um, he loves movies himself. All the stories he tells are usually very self-deprecating in nature. And, um, and he, he knows that you're honored to be there. He's, he's aware of it, but he doesn't use it against you. I've, I've met people who kind of use it against you or they're kind of like, yeah, I know who I am. And they kind of changed their posture in a, in a bit. And, and Clint just keeps the same posture, whether he's talking to the guy at the gas station or talking to Spielberg, you know, which, which I love. I love that. I think on set when I heard one or two take clint i was like well i'm screwed because i i thrive off multiple takes um i like the adam mckay thing of like you get it two or

three times safe and then you improv and try a bunch of stuff so i was very concerned and i knew the best thing i could do was to ground the performance i knew that even if even if people didn't talk about me during award season, even if people were like, you were the fifth best actor in the movie, the best thing I could do was ground the performance and not overreach. So that was my only aim the entire shoot, was to ground, to listen, and not overreach. And I'm proud of that because I think I stayed in that lane for the most part.

But I would say I had three to five takes you know a lot of them were three or four takes and do you think that it's possible that it helped that the fact that you weren't roaming you weren't trying stuff kept you in the in this that same lane every time it occurred to me when I was watching because I I was aware of the fact that you would you would improv at timed yeah but I feel like the character is so consistent the performance is so consistent and it like it could get cartoonish if the movie is made differently. Yeah, I watched some documentaries before watching the movie, not even on the movie. I just mean documentaries in general, because I think sometimes the best way to study acting isn't to watch acting. It's to watch humans. And so when I went in to do that, it was, it was important to feel like the camera was capturing me, not like I was trying to attract or capture the camera. And I've done both. And you can tell sometimes what I'm doing it, which is a fortunate or unfortunate pending the moment. So I really

wanted to live in that space and sort of throw it all away and, and, and be minimalist, I guess would be the word. That's what you're kind of hitting at too, of like not overreaching, being minimalist, you know? Yeah. Um, you have a lot of big movies coming up.

Like, has your career changed even more than from that moment in 15 when you were like, I'm staying like, does it feel like you're doing almost like a different job now? Like you have another Spike Lee movie coming. You're in a Disney movie soon. Well,

like is your life significantly different the significant changes that have occurred would be i'm busy in a way that's difficult before i was busy in a way that was like i'm you know i'm keeping myself spending some plates now it's literally like some days i have i I have to answer 60 texts. I'm like, this is put a bullet in me. I don't want to do this. This is exhausting. And, and, and so like that alone or, or just flying all the time, I think, you know, in the last, what is the date today? The sixth, I believe it's my mother's birthday.

Happy birthday. Late mom. I'm going to call you later. Um, I highly doubt she listens to this. She's obsessed. Happy birthday. Late mom. I'm going to call you later. I highly doubt she listens to this show. She's obsessed with Bill Simmons. So, but anyway, anyway, in the last two weeks, I've flown from London. No, in the last three weeks, I've flown from London to LA to London to New York to LA. And I'm back to New York today to fly to Atlanta in four days to fly back to LA a day later

to fly to Michigan a week and a half later and then back to LA. So it's like, it's freaking exhausting. Sick of airports. No, it's, it's what I dreamt of obviously. But I, I, I would say the aggressive schedule and having to tell dear friends of mine that like I'll see you in January and it's like late November it feels gross it feels tough you know I feel like Henry Rowan Gardner in Rookie of the Year I'm like I want to play guys but I'm throwing fastballs man

unbelievable reference way to go way to go run amucka so what's your dream now you got your dream you're the star of a major motion picture released by warner brothers directed by clint eastwood this is insane now what do you what do you have to aspire to to have a woman be attracted to me that's on my bucket list paul you're so vulnerable for f sake sean i'm just talking to you the way i

talk to all my friends man i love it there's, bro. This is just what you see is what you get. There's a Planes, Trains, and Automobiles reference. Can you tell I watch movies? On my epitaph, it's going to say he wasted time watching VHS clips. No, not anymore. I would say my dreams are, I got a bunch of dreams. I dream of owning a home. I dream of having a dog and a lifestyle where I can maintain a dog and give it a good life.

Uh, I want a wife and a kid or two. I want to play the penguin in a standalone, uh, Warner brothers movie. I want to, I want to play Teddy Roosevelt in a biopic in 10 years. See,

that's, I want to, uh, host Saturday night live. And, and um and i want to have a lot of loving relationships with people where we can have each other's backs and it's not just like we're friends because we're both in the industry like i want to i want to have relationships where i can go get coffee when someone gets a divorce and try to like be an actual friend to people i don't want i don't i don't

want i can't do the shallow relationship thing it just doesn't work with me you're either an acquaintance or you're like a ride or die but you know buddy it's the best answer to that question i've ever gotten um we end every episode of this show by asking guests what's the last great thing they've seen you're a great person to ask this question. What's the last great thing you've seen? The screenplay for the live action Care Bears film. Because let me tell you, I'm about to make that fat, wet money, bro. I'm about to sell out and make that money, bro. I would say the last killer dope thing I saw, and I'll go from the year. I won't say like proximity of when I most recently watched it. The stuff I saw this year that really affected

me that stayed with me was Chernobyl Parasite the Green Bay Packers winning and good season for you. Yeah, real good season. Real good. Aaron Rodgers reminding me he's Aaronaron rogers and

um there's a couple performances i just want to say really quick that that meant a lot to me i loved my buddy jonathan majors from from the new spike lee movie i did he he murdered that role in last black man san francisco i mean wonderfully so specific and just wonderfully nuanced and and and brilliant and shia labBeouf and Honey Boy. I mean, shit. That dude just like wrote himself a new lease on his career. I think he's so talented and he seems like he's in a good, healthy place now.

So guys like Jonathan and Shia, those are the guys I hope I get to kind of rise the ranks with and work with again at some point. Paul, as you know, I think you belong in company with them this year. Thanks so much for doing the show. Thanks for having me. Thanks to Paul Walter Hauser.

Thanks to Amanda Dobbins. And thanks to Chris Ryan. Please stay tuned to The Big Picture. We'll be talking about the Oscars again next week. See you then