The Big Picture - Oscar Nomination Predictions, ‘Mean Girls,’ and ‘All of Us Strangers’ With Andrew Scott

Episode Date: January 19, 2024

Sean and Amanda predict the upcoming announcement of the Oscar nominations (1:00), before reviewing ‘Mean Girls’ (49:00)—a musical remake of the 2004 high school classic—and ‘All of Us Strangers’ (1:03:00), a heavily-tipped Oscar movie that is finally being released widely. Finally, Sean talks to ‘All of Us Strangers’ star Andrew Scott about what attracted him to this role, how he selects roles at this stage of his career, and the legwork that goes into building chemistry with costars (1:22:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Andrew Scott Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Kevin O'Connor. Every week for seven years, Chris Vernon and I have been discussing and debating the NBA for the ringer. And if you didn't know it, we're now on our own podcast feed called The Mismatch. It's appropriately named because of our differing views and approaches to the NBA, whether it's news and rumors or the latest games. And I love our show because we'll go from yelling at each other about tanking to laughing about something that happened in a game the night before. It's my favorite part of every week, so give The Mismatch a listen every Tuesday and Friday on Spotify. I'm Sean Fennessey.

I'm Amanda Davins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about mean girls and beautiful boys. Later in this episode, I'll be joined by Andrew Scott, the star of All of Us Strangers, who listeners may know as Hot Priest from Fleabag or Moriarty from Sherlock. Andrew is magnificent in All of Us Strangers. It was wonderful to chat with him about the film, this fascinating moment in his career. You know, he's about to play Ripley on Netflix.

I do know that. Yeah, so very exciting. I hope you'll stick around for my conversation with him. But we've got a trilogy of content to hit through. Yeah, so very exciting. I hope you'll stick around for my conversation with him. But we've got a trilogy of content to hit through. We've got Oscar predictions. Look at you, just branding, packaging,

marketing, right off the top. There you go. Magazine training executed in audio form. Oscar predictions to start. Then a discussion of the film Mean Girls,

which is a remake of the musical Mean Girls, which is a remake of the film Mean Girls. Yes. And then we the musical Mean Girls, which is a remake of the film Mean Girls. Yes. And then we'll discuss all of us strangers before I talk to Andrew,

which is a... Just a very normal confluence of topics, emotions, experiences. Yeah. I think what lives inside my heart is actually related

to all three of those topics. So I think we've got some union here. Let's talk Oscars. We're just a few days away heart is actually related to all three of those topics so i think we've got some union here uh let's talk oscars we're just a few days away from the 2024 oscar nominations is this the 96th academy awards i think that's right uh you've seen all 95 iterations previously you've been reviewing the tape yeah so you you're you're mel kiper I spend my weekends at the Academy Archive. So you've micro-feastered away. People know I love archives in general, so.

Well, if they involve Sofia Coppola, you do. She had an archive. That was something you enjoyed. Yeah, that's one. You feel like we're going to nail this now? We're going to go through eight critical categories, and we're going to just give collaboratively our predictions for the five and ten. I think that we'll get like a solid b

you know like maybe like an 84 okay okay you know yeah c's get degrees here on the big picture so i'm not worried um we're gonna do well i think we're gonna do well but there are always one or two surprises and and that's what make the oscars fun and that is what makes this exercise fun because we get a little humiliated but sometimes they're good surprises so then we're like so excited that remember phantom threat remember that i know it was like we didn't see anything coming you know why because i was in new york and i was staying at soho house no so house not soho house but the soho what's the soho hotel hotel soho grand. Soho Grand. Yes. It was lovely. And I had coffee and was just watching the Oscar nominations at the normal hour of 830 EST as opposed to the 538

or whatever that's going to be happening this year. What's the earliest I can get you in the studio? In the studio? Yeah. Yeah. Oh boy. I want to do it in the studio there's a magic in the studio amanda okay what about if we did it in your edu okay we could do that that like i can roll over at seven we could do that but there is something because i could have coffee waiting for you at the house i'll bring coffee as well and donuts but it's really it's driving the minimal miles to your home versus like commuting. I see. I'm in. Okay.

Bobby, you're going to have to work out some of those technical issues. Yeah. But I can be there. I can be there at 7 a.m. in the 80s. That sounds fantastic. We got to get the content to the people who need the content as soon as possible. We are first responders when it comes to awards. In all other ways, we are eighth responders.

But in this particular case. You don't need to say that to me, the woman who delayed the birth of her child for the Oscar nominations announcement. You were right to do that. And you were also right on last week's episode where we discussed the potential Best Picture nominees. And I'll tell you why. The PGA nominations came out. Yeah out yeah you've been saying to me for months this is an international body let's not overlook the zone of interest let's not overlook anatomy of a fall let's not overlook past lives and I've been saying to you what about Hollywood that grand old town that makes films like the color purple and across the spider verse and what about big ticket items and all the below the line folks who worked hard on those films? And you said, no, Jonathan Glazer will have his day. And the PGA, the Producers

Guild of America, they agreed with you. I'd like to read a text that you sent me at 9.48 AM last Friday. And I'm going to enter it into the record since no one else has. PGA Noms, you were right, Amanda! Exclamation point. I think I texted you that just so you would read it on the pod. I think it's all part of the psychological game. You were right. You were right the whole time.

And it's particularly interesting because, of course, the PGAs historically does go for more conventional mainstream fare in their nominations. This is the body that nominated Knives Out once upon a time. So with that in mind, it's unusual that films like The Zone of Interest and Past Lives that are

smaller, intimate, complicated, arthouse movies really are nominated among the 10 films here. And I think the 10 that you felt like were the 10 when we last spoke are probably going to be the 10. We won't spoil our predictions quite yet, but it sure feels close, right? Yes. The PGAs were a surprise even to me, even though I do see all and understand all. There's always one... I don't know a single pundit who had all of those 10 movies in there. Yeah. And God love the PGAs. They're for the people. So there's always something goofy in there. They nominated Wonder Woman. Right. There is a chance that Saltbrew could be on that list. I mean, you know, they're for the people. So there's always something goofy in there. They nominated Wonder Woman. Right.

There is a chance that Salt Brim could be on that list. I mean, maybe not, but. No, it's not out of the realm of possibility. But something that has connected with audiences, shall we say, as opposed to these two wonderful movies that many people just haven't had the chance to see yet. So that is surprising. The PGAs to me more cement the suspicions that movies like The Color Purple

are probably not going to crack it in because that is a film that had an initial huge audience response. The box office is kind of tapered off. Fizzled off quite a bit. But that's the sort of thing where a PGA nomination huge audience response, the box office is kind of tapered off. Fizzled off quite a bit. And, but that's the sort of thing where a PGA nomination would like,

would propel it into the race. And it just kind of seems like it hasn't quite gotten the boost. Yeah, it feels like that's dead. It feels like Air is dead.

It feels like Spider-Verse is dead. May, December, I'm not totally thrown in the towel, but between getting snubbed at SAG entirely and then nothing here,

you know, you start to wonder. It seems unlikely that it's going to get in. That does feel like a movie, though, that could represent one of those surprises that you're talking about. You never know. Sure. Because it's clearly, Todd Haynes is admired, but maybe not beloved by the Academy. And there's a fine line there.

Critics' Choice Awards also happened over the weekend. Did you watch those? I didn't. I did watch the Emmys. Wow. Oh, I saw you recap them on Jam Session. Yes. Well, and I should be clear. I DV did watch the Emmys. Wow. Oh, I saw you recap them on Jam Session. Yes. Well,

and I should be clear. I DVR'd the Emmys. Okay. Cared for my child and your child while you watched a failing sports team. I was trying to be there in solidarity for my brothers. And I think you were. I think I was a very good actor for that event. Sure. And I then went home and fast forwarded through the Emmys. And there was like a solid hour of all the variety talk shows, etc. that I just, I skipped. But I saw the, I saw the production of the show, which is a TV show.

I mean, they tried. It was kind of interesting. You know, they reunited all of these, all the different casts. Like, Cheers, Martin, like Sopranos, Grey's Anatomy, Ally McBeal. I like all those shows

but I also don't care about TV so right but if they you know if they did the movie version of this it could actually make

for interesting television which that's always the problem with the Oscars is that they forget that they're a TV show about movies

yeah they need to do it for like Pulp Fiction and Inception though like it can't be for like Terms of endearment. Like people don't, there is a little bit of a confusion there

with what is beloved. I think about this all the time in our general movie culture where it's sort of like 1997 is now as far as some people go back. Yeah. So you got to be mindful of that

when you're making a TV show. It's your point. You want to get young people watching the show. Show me the cast of Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man. You know what I mean? Like that is movie history

for a lot of people, so you gotta be wise about that. But it's a very good point. Critics' Choice, I watched some of the show. I thought also it was like a pretty coherent broadcast in a way that The Globes

just was not. I watched a lot of the surrounding content, including just a lot of focus on the food, which I had some concerns about. It really looks like they were just being served

airplane food. Like, and it came in little boxes. I've been to those kinds of events. well the golden globes got no boo don't eat there is my right of course and it's not like anyone at any of these awards has eaten in the past six months but i there there was just something about like the basic indignity of like the the like the delta charcuterie box you know being placed in front of all these people that i was like let's like let's elevate like slightly everyone there was holding out so they could follow paul giamatti's lead and line up but you know that like literally emily blunt was like i'm

gonna go to in and out after this and was like explaining it to people because i was like emily like that's already a reused bit like what are you doing just trying to glom on to Paul Giamatti's? The only member of the Oppenheimer campaign trail who's somehow failed. Yeah. And I know that was a funny bit for us three months ago, but not to worry because she's not in any jeopardy of winning. Yeah. But they were talking about In-N-Out. Then there was something in Paul Giamatti's acceptance speech about pizza in a bag.

I didn't catch that. Okay. Or something. Maybe it was behind the scenes. I'm concerned about the food, but the winners were somewhat interesting. Well, in the big six categories, they just match the Globes. And so it's frontrunners with the exception that there's no comedy or musical and drama. Exactly. And so, but the awards went to Emma Stone for best actress and Paul Giamatti for best actor. Like, I don't think that's predictive necessarily. Critics choice, definitely

not. Globes and critics choice though have a lot more in common than, like, the Academy and SAG are going to have more in common. SAG's going to be way more predictive. We didn't mention, by the way, when we were talking about SAG Noms, that that show's going to be airing on Netflix. Oh, is it? Yeah. They're streaming it this year. That's kind of interesting. They haven't

invited us. To the event? What if they invited me it this year. That's kind of interesting. They haven't invited us. To the event? What if they invited me and they put me next to someone, as they said, and I am an actor? What if you were participating? I'm not an actor. I'm Amanda Dobbins and I am a podcaster. I am a podcaster. No, there's no amount of money that could get me to say that in front of a camera. Why is there not an Oscars for the pods?

Like, what would you be eligible for? What award if there was a pod Oscars for the pods. Like, what would you be eligible for? What award if there was a pod Oscars? I know there is a podcast awards, but it's owned by a company that owns podcasts, so I don't support that. Though, if you read Oscar Wars, or really any history of the Academy Awards, I mean, it was basically started by the studios

to promote their own, you know, and funded by the same people. It's slightly different. But it was a conglomeration, not one company. Sure, but it's a littleglomeration, not one company. Sure, but it's a little, I mean, we're not,

no one's covering themselves with honors. The ringer will now host and produce the podcast awards. Nominated in the category of best podcast host, Amanda Dobbins, Sean Fennessy,

CR, We have to compete against each other? Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, Ryan Rosillo, Mallory Rubin, Danny Heifetz.

Who else is on the list? I can keep going. Cole Kuchna, Yossi Salik. Yeah, of course. That's the award show. Yossi really wants to come on the big picture. I'm aware. We met at Whole Foods.

I heard. She told me all about it. We met at Whole Foods instead of at the ringer offices or at any event that we've both attended. It is my solemn promise to Yossi Selleck that she will be on the big picture in 2024 through 2027. I haven't chosen a date yet. But she will definitely be on the pod at some point.

The Amanda Yossi thing, we're all kind of sorting it out. We're all trying to make room. I don't know what that means. I'm going to have to turn it down a little bit so you guys can kind of operate together. But I look forward to it. I look forward to it as well. I did not meet her at Rob Harville's event, but I was in attendance.

I was very moved by what she had to say about Whole Foods. So, you know, it will be a beautiful thing when it happens. Also, we had a lovely time at Whole Foods on a Saturday morning. That's nice. That's where you both belong. I will say, as does your husband and myself. My Whole Foods that I attend as well. I feel like I've also run into you at the same Whole Foods.

That's where every person between the age of 37 and 58. Also saw Alan Siegel there once. Look at that. There you go. The Ringer family extends deeper. Yeah, we're going to get some more, some fresh blood on the show this year. I'm determined to get Rosillo on the pod this year. You know I've never met Ryan Rosillo.

He's great. I love Ryan. But I'm like a devoted fan of all his non-sports podcasting content, including the town rewatchables. One of like. Immaculate. Hang his jersey in the rafters for that. And then also his travelogue of his trip to Spain. Which is.

Yes. Complicated content. Yes. The single best piece of podcasting that the Ringer Podcast Network has ever published. It's that number one, JFK Rewatchable is number two. Well, we thank you for your service and listening to podcasts. I can't think of any other podcasts.

Okay, every other show is canceled. Anyway, but I've never met him, so I'd love to meet him. How do you think our energies will match? They won't. Yeah. But that's okay. Sometimes that's what happens in the world.

I think you'll guys, you'll meet for the first time at the award show that we produce for podcasting. No, you guys would be great together. Okay. I think you both have a very... He likes traveling. So do I. Yeah.

What are the things you have in common? Well, you're both weightlifters. I think we have different philosophical approaches, but it would actually be interesting to compare notes. And I'd love to talk to him about like his goals, you know, and how he's using that every day. You know, he seems to be more like, he's like pure bulking. He's pure bulking. Well, I think he's got a real methodology that we can learn more about.

Yeah. Okay. I can only imagine what Bobby would do with Ryan in front of him. Let's predict some Oscars. Okay. Okay. Let's start about. Yeah. Okay. I can only imagine what Bobby would do with Ryan in front of him. Let's predict some Oscars, okay? Okay. Let's start with Supporting Actor. Okay, so we're picking all five nominees together. All five nominees together.

We're going to do some brokering. Okay, so let's do the easy ones first. Yep. Robert Downey Jr. I believe he's still far and away the frontrunner. I do as well. You agree, okay. He gave a charming speech at the Critics' Choice Awards

in which he read some of the truly very funny, mean things that critics had said about him. And he did it with good humor. Do you think of Robert Downey Jr. as a Nepo baby? I'm not a huge Nepo baby subscriber. I tend to actually think that a lot of the quality work rises to the top. But his dad was a successful, independent, you know, leftist filmmaker. Yeah, I don't care. Okay, I don't care either.

I'll put Ryan Gosling after him. Yeah. Certainly feels like he's in the number two or three spot right now. I think just like the number one bridesmaid for this awards season. So Mark Ruffalo famously left off the list for SAG. Do you feel that he's in right now? People seem to really be enjoying poor things. So I went to a bar I like in Los Angeles last week.

Okay. You sound very normal saying something like that. So far, you attend Whole Foods and you attend bars that you like. Where else do you visit? It was actually weird to say that sentence out loud because we don't go to bars very often. I went to a bar with your husband and our friends the other night too. And I was like, I'm in a bar right now. Wow.

It was like literally my in-laws were in town and took my son. And so we went to a bar and then we went to dinner. And it was like. I used to live in bars. I was in bars five days a week. Yo, here's what we did. We went to a movie. Yeah.

Then we went to a bar. We had a date night. And then we went to dinner. That sounded awesome. Zach was telling me about it on Saturday. It was incredible. It was really fun. And if you have the means to do that on a regular basis god please do it for all of us

anyway i was at said bar and i noticed there was like a um a sign like a little ad you know like the literature that you have at uh tables at restaurants or bars advertising a poor things martini okay oh yeah you sent me this yeah and i sent it to you and i was like oh this is interesting and so then i i didn't send you this sent it to you. And I was like, oh, this is interesting. So then I didn't send you this part. I asked the bartender. I was like, so is it some sort of special, like, you know, like Searchlight, whatever. And he was like, oh, no, the bar manager just does that when he likes stuff.

Sick. And so I hope I'm not getting them in trouble with Searchlight. Imagine if they shut that down. That viral marketing for their weird steampunk sex movie. It was very, you know, it just seemed like a one-off. But he was like, yeah, sometimes they did it for Game of Thrones. And then they just did it for poor things. And I was like, huh, that's interesting. I don't see the equivalence there.

But it's what the bar manager liked. So people are out here really liking poor things. That's all I wanted to say. Enough to make a martini. That means Ruffalo is in for you? People also like Mark Ruffalo. So, yeah. I think so, too. people are out here really liking poor things that's all I wanted to say enough to make a martini that means Ruffalo is in for you people also like Mark Ruffalo

so yeah I think so too I was flabbergasted by him not getting into SAG I thought that was really weird because I feel like he's beloved

I don't know either but I do not understand actors generally I like them I admire them but I don't really get it alright

well nevertheless we've got I would say four contenders now generally. I like them. I admire them, but I don't really get it. All right. Well, nevertheless, we've got, I would say, four contenders now for two spots. Robert De Niro for Kills the Flower Moon, Charles Melton for May December, Willem Dafoe for Poor Things, Sterling K. Brown for American Fiction. Would you agree? I do agree. So how do we broker this? Also, shouldn't Dominic Sessa have been in the conversation? I would like to know who's styling Dominic Sessa. Because that person is absolutely lights out killing it. This is how you make a star, though.

It's like you get a chance to be on the red carpet. You know, he's a pretty good looking guy. He's very tall. Yeah. Very tall. And you just look like a million dollars. Yeah. Like you just, you go million dollars yeah like you just

you go to the old classics you get a sick tuxedo you get a sick leather jacket you get great sunglasses you just go to the classics and it is also like it's playing right to us because he's just dressed like one of the strokes right yeah he just looks like we're all going back to like early 2000s culture on this podcast we're just going back to like early 2000s culture on this podcast. Well, they were just going back to Lou Reed, but yes. Children gather around. Yeah, but sure. But, you know, but like the references cycle back in that way. And so they just picked the right moment. And no, he looks amazing.

Seth looks good. He's wonderful in the movie. I don't think he's actually competing. But I was wondering in the back of my mind, I'm like, I wonder if him having more of a public profile just in the last two weeks would give him a little bit of a boost. In a way he would not have three months ago because nobody knew what his name was. It happens

from time to time and especially Holdover's is beloved and so you're right in everybody else's. He is like the third in that trio. Absolutely.

The other two will absolutely be nominated. I don't think that's going to be a shocking surprise but you never know. Could happen. Yeah, I still think De Niro.

How is De Niro going to get in and Leo's not? Well, are we saying Leo's not? I'm not saying that, but I'm just— Listen, you call up SAG, okay? You call them, and you take your problems up with them. Dear sir or madam, I am not an actor, but I find your awards to be gravely disappointing.

Maybe when we get invited, just at the table, you can go person to person. Hello. I really don't want to go to award shows. Like, God bless all the journalists who go to award shows and ask questions in Chronicle,. I really don't want to go to award shows. Like, God bless all the journalists who go to award shows and ask questions in Chronicle, but I really don't want to go. I don't either. Okay.

So De Niro is in. I think so. So who's in the last spot? You want to take a chance or you want to play chalk? I don't think it's Defoe. Defoe is the chalk to me. Yeah. And I know that he was nominated for SAG.

It's a smaller part. To me, aside from the incredible prosthetic work that is done on him in that movie, it's like a Willem Dafoe part. It's lovely to see him always. Yeah, he's great. I sent you his Criterion closet video last night, and I was like, this rocks. This guy's the man.

He was like, I tried to remake Oni Baba. I was making our outline, so I didn't have time to watch it well thank you for doing that you're so welcome we're seeing more and more Amanda doing outlines in 2024 it's because my in-laws weren't

telling me I have time so I was wondering why you volunteered once again well also you said that you had a busy day today and I actually

I'm grateful to you and I had been able to see all the movies and you know sometimes I'm catching up right until we record but I had time there's no one I would trust, you know, sometimes I'm catching up right until we record, but I had time. There's no one I would trust with it more than you.

And I'd like to help. I don't know. Do you want to do chalk or do you want to have fun? I think Sterling K. Brown is fun. Okay. If it's at the expense of Mark Ruffalo and, to a lesser extent, Charles Melton, it's kind of annoying fun. It's like, I'd like to see Willem Dafoe get bumped. I even kind of sort of wouldn't,

I would be okay with De Niro getting bumped. Is that crazy? I'm okay with it as well, but we're not. We're not bumping anybody. It's more just what we think is going to happen.

Yeah, we're not like dream casting or whatever. Juliette spent like 20 minutes explaining the concept of dream casting to me on her recent podcast. The version I like to, the phrase I like to use

I learned from david shoemaker which is fantasy book okay which is like when you think about what would be the coolest matches in professional wrestling you'd be like what if hulk hogan and rick flair in 1988 could wrestle each other uh that didn't happen i not as far as i know but there's a you know there's a movie version we should do we should do a fantasy booking movies pod one day where we're just like, what if you could take Orson Welles in 1945 and put him with, you know, Ellen Burstyn in 1976 and put him, you know. Yeah, okay.

Future pod idea. Okay. Okay, so who's in? So that's not what we're doing, though. It's not, it's who do we think will get the fifth nomination. I don't think it's going to be Charles Melton, which makes me sad. I think it's Defoe. Okay, that's fine.

We can do chalk. I'm happy to be wrong about this, but I think it's Defoe. And I think you're right that Poor Things is going to be beloved by the Academy. I think we're looking at like seven, eight, nine nominations. Okay, best supporting actress. You ready for this? Yeah. There's obviously an actress who is leading the pack right now,

who's won virtually every precursor, Davine Joy Randolph. That's wonderful by me. I think she's going to win. I do as well. That feels like safe money. And I will enjoy that. She's terrific. Now what? Emily Blunt.

Yep. She will be there no matter what. She's working so hard. It seems like she has increasingly less of a chance to win, as we cited. Now, I think Danielle Brooks is in, even though The Color Purple has fallen away. I do as well. I feel like that will be the lone nomination for that film. Yeah.

So I'm going to put her in. I accept. Now, we're in a similar spot with supporting actor, as we are with actress actress here where there's two, four people competing for two spots. Jodie Foster and Nyad. Julianne Moore in May, December. Penelope Cruz in Ferrara. You've got a big bump from SAG. America Ferrara in Barbie.

I guess Sondra Holler in the zone of interest is competing here, but I don't really see that. I see it in another category. I think Jodie Foster, yes. Okay. True Detective bump. Oh, great point. She was at the Emmys. Did you watch True D?

No, that's not part of my world. That's not part of your world? No. What does that mean? We were sitting there on the couch and we had forgotten to DVR Monsieur Spade, which is definitely- Sacre bleu. and which is definitely and and so we were like are we gonna pay $8.99 to resubscribe to AMC plus to be able to watch it right now or are we gonna

like DVR it for later on YouTube TV and we decided to save nine bucks and so then we're like what are we gonna do and Zach's like well are we gonna True Detective? And I was just like, no, thank you. And I left the room. Zach and I spoke of True Detective when I saw him. Yeah? We were on the same page. Yeah? I won't reveal that page right here.

Okay. I love Jodie Foster. And I loved her in Nyad. She's wonderful in Nyad. Super fun. I did also, like, I sat in that room watching Nyad. And I was like, well, Jodie Foster Oscar nomination. It just is instant.

Yes. Well, the thing is, it's nomination. It just is instant. Yes. Well, the thing is, it's the same thing that is true for the show right now where it's just like, I think Chris and Andy talked about this really smartly

on The Watch this week too. It's a star part on True D executed by a star. And Nyad, that Nyad part is not a star part. It's a second banana part.

And there's a big star part that Annette Bening has. I was having more fun with Jodie Foster. I wanted to spend more time with her. And obviously's a big star part that Annette Bening has. I was having more fun with Jodie Foster. I wanted to spend more time with her. Yeah. And obviously, Diana Nyad is a very difficult person, and that's baked into the story. That's part of it, right.

But still, Jodie Foster is so terrific as Bonnie in that movie. Okay, I like that she's in. So now three actors for one spot. Now, America Ferreira did win an award at the Critics' Choice. She accepted an award of some kind. She got to give a speech. You don't think it's happening? I mean, the Critics' Choice Award just accepted an award of some kind. She got to give a speech. You don't think it's happening? I mean,

the Critics' Choice Award just gave like a bunch of bullshit. Again, did the same thing as the Golden Globes and gave a bunch of made-up awards to Barbie. Revlon presents

the Innovators Award. Like the real awards. They also gave like Best Comedy to Barbie which wasn't presented during the telecast but then they... Sad.

You know, I've been thinking a lot about this and and we talked about oscar chances right after barbie a film that i loved was released and i was like i don't even think i didn't dare to think that he would it would even make it into best picture and then i don't know everybody went away on this little runaway train and then here we are and everything is looking grim i think it will be nominated for Best Picture. I'm sorry to spoil things.

It's going to be great. It's just not going to win a lot. No, it's just not going to win a lot. I think that's a big W for a commercial movie based on a toy.

Yeah, totally. I don't think though that it has the momentum to push America for air in and stuff like that. I don't think so either, but I will

say I won't be shocked. I would be delighted because she's very admired. And that speech is a whole thing now. I won't be shocked because she's very admired. And that speech, you know, is like a whole thing now.

She's a young woman but she's had a long career, you know, like I wouldn't be stunned. I didn't see the Penelope Cruz thing coming three weeks ago when I was raving about her

in Ferrari, but I can see it now and I was reminded of the fact that she was nominated for Parallel Mothers and Best Actress when like no one

talked about that movie or saw that movie, that Al Motivar movie, which is such a good film. And she's magnificent in it. But it was one of those like, she's actually in this kind of, kind of like Meryl Streep, Cate Blanchett, like. Totally.

Every time she shows up, she could be nominated because she's so, so admired as an actor and usually brings it. Yeah. But that was also in like a, like wonderful Almodovar movie as opposed to like Ferrari, which is set in Italy. But I loved Ferrari. The people of Italy did not. I know.

Ferrari's been struggling. Yeah. It's like it's slipping out of box, out of theaters right now. It's tough times. I liked it. I had a great time. Vroom, vroom. I'm just saying, if you're relying on the international voters, I don't think they're responding in the same way.

Julianne Moore? I really don't know what to do on this one. I believe I had her in my big bet three months ago. I think that you did. And I thought, I was trying to do the math of like, well, the Academy doesn't always love Todd Haynes, but they love Julianne Moore. They always nominate Julianne Moore.

And she's so good in the movie and the choices that she makes, she talked about on the pod, which was great hearing her talk through, and the choices that she makes, she talked about it on the pod, which was great hearing her talk through some of the decisions that she made. Is this a way to recognize that movie without going anywhere else? Maybe it'll go into screenplay, I guess. I could see it.

Do you believe it? I think I believe it more than I believe Penelope Cruz. Okay. And more than I believe America Ferrera. Then we're doing Julianne Moore. Okay. Let's go to adapted screenplay.

Hmm. Now this is a bit of blood sport in this one. We talked about how Barbie is now contending in this category because it was reclassified. Which you felt was what? An egregious act of jury rigging? Hateful even by the Academy? You can't give me the giggles again. As soon as I start thinking about Judd Apatow being mad,

I just like lose it. I got to stay on track, okay? We have a lot more podcasts. So much podcast. We're going to go quickly. Oh, no. I just made you aware of how many detours. Well, I think this is set.

Okay. I think the five are set here. But there's probably one other contender. So to me, it's Oppenheimer, Poor Things, Killers of the Flower Moon, American Fiction, and Barbie. Yes, I think so. All five will be Best Picture nominees. All five are interesting adaptations of their work, recontextualizations of their work. The one on the outside, I think is also a best picture contender. It is also a

recontextualization, which is the zone of interest. Now as a piece of writing, I'm not sure it's a great piece of writing. It doesn't work without a visionary filmmaker executing on that writing, but I think people really admire that movie. I guess I don't see any of these five coming out. I don't either. Okay. I think that this, once they moved Barbie into Adapted, it felt like we just kind of had five solid.

We've decided that this is the boundaries of the category. Okay. So that one's easy. So now we'll do original. Do you want to do this? Do you want to run the show on the picks here? Sure. I. So that one's easy. So now we'll do original. Do you want to do this? Do you want to run the show on the picks here? Sure.

I can do four, I think. Okay. The Holdovers. Mm-hmm. Without a doubt. Past Lives. Mm-hmm. Anatomy of a Fall.

The Holdovers, Past Lives, Anatomy of a Fall, yes. I do think May, December will happen here. So Sammy Birch has been on a campaign. She's been doing great. Very funny speeches, good interviews.

It is a great screenplay. And also, you know, I think people who aren't actors feel differently about May, December than the actor's body. Fully agree with you. So the fifth one is the question mark. You could do maestro. But should you do maestro? You know, speaking of my in-laws

who were in town and provided great childcare, they, shout out Rich and Jane, they were also telling me about how they walked out of maestro. And I would not have said that they were people who walk out of films. They're lovely people. And they said they sort of surprised themselves. But I asked them why while they were here. And they were like, honestly, we're just kind of bored. We're like, we knew a lot about Leonard Bernstein. They both grew up in New York going to the Young People's Concert. So he meant a lot to them and his career meant a lot to them.

And they were like, we didn't really care about what this movie seemed to care about. And I was like, interesting, because that seems like the target audience for Maestro. Is it, though? I don't know. You know, we had a playground conversation with a voter. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Now, we obviously are not going to reveal that person's name, but we're out in the world.

We're talking to people. Yeah. And we're talking to voters. Yeah. And, you know, Maestro, it doesn't seem to be playing that well. This voter was like, I don't know whether I'm going to finish it by the time voting's over. That's a little, you know. Yeah.

That's not what you want if you made Maestro. So, I wouldn't bet on a screenplay nomination all right then then what else do you got air seems unlikely it does salt burn is not gonna happen although this is a winner in this category former winner emerald foul i want to speak with you very briefly about Origin. Yes. I've seen Origin. We haven't dedicated any time to it yet. Maybe we will in the next couple weeks. It's out on Friday in wide release.

Oh, that's right. This is coming out on Friday. Sorry. It's out now, everyone. I'll see you at the theaters. Origin's Ava DuVernay's new movie. The movie premiered in Venice and has since got, it got kind of a one week quick show in December

to qualify for awards. It's a new film starring Anjanue Ellis-Taylor. And there's been a very active campaign to get attention on the movie in part because what has been suggested of like the failure of the studio to shine enough light on it for enough people to be made aware of this story. And, you know, A duvernay a very savvy uh marketeer has gotten a lot of attention on the film in the last couple of weeks and there's a little bit of a grassroots thing happening

and i saw francis fisher who famously was a participant in the two leslie campaigns last year was sharing her support um I saw Cher tweeting about the film Origin over the weekend. Angelina Jolie hosted a screening. She hosted a screening. So the big guns are coming out. There's a late-breaking push for the film. It's a very unusual movie. It's an adaptation of cast Isabel Wilkerson's non-fiction book. The film is very bold in the decisions it makes. I don't really want to say too much for people who haven't seen it if they're intending to see it. Also stars Jon Bernthal, Ringer favorite. I'll wait until we get a chance to dig into it.

I'm now saving space for the surprising origin nominations. I'm just going to put that out here. I don't think it's going into original here, but just saving space. So what do you think is going in? What if it's just like Asteroid City? I mean, I'd be thrilled. But that has been abandoned by the wayside because you and I failed. Because honestly, because you and I did not put it in our top fives. You and I did not keep it in the conversation.

I was in my top 10. Sure. But, you know, that gets posted on Letterboxd like, well, everyone's drunk on New Year's Eve. That's part of the plan, though. You know, it's like one of the drunk people to fire up their Letterboxd and see what I'm up to. We needed to start in September. I know. You know?

We kind of fumbled it. We needed to start in September. I know. You know? We kind of fumbled it. We needed to start in June. When I was watching that Eagles game, Andy Greenwald had just watched Asteroid City,

another problem with Asteroid City not being nominated. But he was like, damn, that was good. Yes. That's among his best. Yeah.

And me and your husband were like, yeah, it is. And then it didn't get nominated. It's literally in 12th on Gold Derby right now for original screenplay.

I guess it's just Maestro. This feels wrong. This doesn't feel right right I feel like something happened with Maestro but I don't know what the next contender is supposed to be is it Saltburn?

is that crazy? I mean that would be funny honestly it's definitely in play right? it could be you know how many people have seen Saltburn

in the last month? a lot of people it's been number one on Letterboxd for like two weeks I know I was looking at Letterboxd because I wanted to know what the children thought about mean girls 2024 oh

interesting yeah okay we'll get to that soon uh i'm i guess i'm gonna put maestro here but it's a cowardly pick okay all right international is an interesting one have you had a chance to are you caught up where are you at with the international features i know you've seen some let's see no i'm not caught up okay i've i've seen fallen leaves i saw fallen leaves loved it yeah great movie uh i saw society of the snow fallen leaves for movie subscribers is on movie on friday when the day this podcast is posting so if you want to watch aki korismaki's new film which has been in very few theaters in america check it out on mubi movie great uh okay zone of interest society of the snow fallen leaves and the taste Things. I feel like those are locked in. Yeah, and I've seen all four.

Okay, good job. Liked all of them. I don't know about five. I don't either. I think there's five movies for one spot. Okay. Vim Vendors' Perfect Days, which was celebrated coming out of Cannes. That's the Japanese entry.

Koji Yakusho is one best actor i can first performance there very good movie has not been officially released in the u.s yet so a lot of people haven't seen it but um the teacher's lounge from germany which i still have not had a chance to see yet like i really gotta get up on that 20 days in mario pole there may be a wave there's another short documentary film um about ukraine about the siege in ukraine uh that is also nominated i think it comes to us from netflix so you could see some crossover there or they could knock each other out right um from mexico we have totem which i saw and liked from italy we have io capitano which was really good actually bobby

saw that as well, and we were talking about how much we liked aspects of that movie. So, I mean, out of those, the chalk pick is Perfect Days, Wim Wenders, Beloved. He's having this huge retrospective at the American Cinematheque this month.

Yeah, I was going to say, it seems like all the accoutrement is going in his direction. Yeah. So you think it's Perfect Days? I think that's probably the safest bet. What if I see The Teacher's Lounge and I'm like, wow, a searing portrait of complex emotions? Then we have another podcast to record. Yeah. So you think it's perfect days? I think that's probably the safest bet. What if I see the teacher's lounge and I'm like, wow, a searing portrait of complex emotions? Then we

have another podcast to record. Okay, cool. All right. I'm just going to put in the chalk. That's not very interesting. I thought this was going to be more competitive. Fallen Leaves getting an Oscar nomination. How fun. I don't think it's going to win. What's going to win? Zone of interest? I think so. What about Society of the Snow? snow i liked it a lot i don't know anyone who's watching at home do you it's number two on letterbox right now so clearly a lot of people okay um netflix a powerful platform they really are is there any chance the taste of things wins here i don't think so but what a wonderful film that i can't wait to talk about have you talked to julia epinosh yet yes i spoke with jul Pinoche. How was it? Spoiler for a future episode of this podcast. She really

took control in a way that I found appealing. You know what I mean? Did you know that she's also starring as Coco Chanel in an upcoming Apple TV series? I did. Also starring Ben Mendelsohn? I didn't know about that. Who's he playing? I want to say Christian Dior. Dior, yes. That's amazing. I know. Ben Mendelsohn as Dior is amazing. Are you kidding?

I'm really, really excited for the show. It does not have to be good for me to care. That is really, really great. Okay, so then there we'll have Society of the Snow, Fallen Leaves, The Taste of Things, Perfect Days, and The Zone of Interest. Okay. Let's go to best actor. This is stressful. I just, I don't know.

My head's getting in the way here a little bit. Your head or your heart? Bit of both. Okay. You want to talk it out? Yeah, I do. Okay. I want great things for Coleman Domingo, but if Coleman Domingo is nominated for Rustin,

a not very good film,'m gonna be into it yeah and it's not his fault I think in fact there's a better case for him to be nominated for best supporting actor in color purple yeah that was one of the big bets that I

took in October so I'd be thrilled if that turned out I don't think it's I don't think it's going to either he's pretty good as mister he's good and Rustin is just 2d it's just a 2d movie yeah it's

like it's just not it's just 2D it's just a 2D movie it's like it's just not it's just very flat it's very obvious it's very obviously written it doesn't look very good in my opinion another person who has been showing up

on every red carpet looking absolutely amazing he's killing it unreal but that doesn't change the fact that I certainly like other people

this year I like our guest people this year. I like our guest on this episode, Andrew Scott. Yeah. I don't know if that's going to happen, and that's the real heartbreaker. TBD. I think Cillian Murphy, Paul Giamatti, and Bradley Cooper are locked in. Do you think there's any chance Bradley Cooper falls out?

I do. Okay. And in fact, I don't think that I included him in my big October bet because well you had seen the film by then and you were a little confounded by the movie in a good way

in a good thing but in a good way and I think I love his performance I think that his performance is one of the best things about it but

he's not the center of the movie which is again a confounding decision that I would love to talk about. He is, though, but that's neither here nor there. I mean, he is, but the movie's afraid of that. I mean, just when I launch movie therapy, what a time we'll have. I'm just saying. saying so you could see people who don't really connect with it wanting to make space for something else but or someone else but i also thought that he would have a better chance in director and

that's not happening so i mean it's like if he doesn't get best actor then maestro is like really flatlining it's not out of the realm of possibility. I mean, you could also just see Maestro just getting best picture and carry Mulligan. Wow. That would be a fall from grace for Maestro. Well. That would be a real fall. I don't see that happening.

I think he's getting in. I think he's getting in and I do think Leo's getting in too. I do as well. I think the sack thing was a, which is strange. A blip. Yeah. Yeah. We may be proven though.

Maybe we'll have a surprise. And I think Jeffrey Wright is getting in. Without question. Yeah. So then that would make it Killian Murphy, Paul Giamatti, Jeffrey Wright, Bradley Cooper, Leonardo DiCaprio, best actress. I do think that Carrie Mulligan's getting in. I do as well. I do think that Sondra Haller is getting in. I do as well. I do think that Sondra Haller is getting in.

I do as well. Lily Gladstone, yes. I do think that Lily Gladstone is getting in. Emma Stone, yes. I think she's currently in the lead. Emma Stone? I've changed my mind on that again. I, yeah.

I reserve the right to change my mind as many times as I want on who I think is going to win stuff. Last night, I googled who won the SAG Award in 2019, which was the year of the favorite and the wife. And Glenn Close won the SAG Award. And then Olivia Colman came in at the Oscars. And I just bring in at the Oscars. And I just, just bringing that up. Okay. We've got Margot Robbie, Greta Lee, and Annette Bening all competing for one spot.

Now I would not be stunned if Margot got pushed. I wouldn't be stunned. Just speaking to your. Yeah. More ambient. I think that's a real bummer. Cause I think that she is incredibly good in it. And like the Academy never respects comedy.

Did you listen to Greta on WTF? No. Why? Because I was listening. Why don't you love pods? Because I was listening to the rewatchables because it's like eight hours long every week. And I got to stay up on what's going on with my guys, you know? Okay.

Your guys? Yeah. Did you listen to the Okay. Your guys? Yeah. Did you listen to the Silver Linings episode? Yeah, I'm like 45 minutes in. I haven't listened to that. I don't really support that endeavor. I thought it was really funny, but I have like,

I would like to do my own like pop-up video, you know, of just putting all of their Philly feelings into some lucid context. That's a good spinoff for movie therapy. Because Amanda comments on the rewatchables in pop-up video format.

Pick one of the big three here. Your girl Greta. Yeah. Forever bridesmaid Annette Bening. Yeah. Who's just who's edging

ever closer to Glenn Close territory. Yeah. Ever Glenn closer. That was good. I mean, I don't, I think, and I hate saying this, but I think between Greta Lee and Margot, it's still Margot. I agree. It's Margot.

Which sucks. You assume Sondra Haller is going to be nominated because there's a lot of respect for Anatomy of a Fall, right? Yeah, and she's amazing. Yeah, she is amazing. Okay, Best Director. Ugh, okay. Let's do the ones we're sure of. Yep.

Christopher Nolan, congratulations on your Best Director win. Can I say something right now? Okay. You're on a podcast where you have to speak, so I should hope now would be the time. I don't know whether I should save this for, Christopher Nolan has been winning every best director award, which is great. He's a very good director.

And then Oppenheimer has been winning most of its best picture things. And so his wife, Emma Thomas, who is his producing partner and producers do so much for us. And I'm so grateful to them. But then she accepts the last word of the night award of the night every single time, which is like in general when someone is so when it when a movie and a campaign and a whole moment is so affiliated with the director i i do feel that the director

should be giving the acceptance speech look at you silencing women and also like just muzzling another woman however many wife speeches they give em Emma Thomas, who's very accomplished and has done a lot, is never going to make up for the Christopher Nolan wife problem. So let's just like give up now. You know, like that's. Let's. This is your last arrow into the Oppenheimer campaign. There's one more shot across the bow. I just.

At the inevitable. I just. Mega warrior that is Oppenheimer. I have been very clear about this before the Oppenheimer debacle, which is like, you gotta let the famous people accept the final award. Sure. You know, like, what are we doing? Absolutely. You know how to end a movie.

Like, figure out how to end an award ceremony also. Saw Oppenheimer at the IMAX campus. Yeah. And I was like this is your best picture winner right here it's amazing and Christopher Nolan

will win for best director I think he will and he's very good at directing you said that twice now so we definitely believe you Christopher Nolan

Greta Gerwig Martin Scorsese so you feel confident about Greta still I do I think she I think part of the reason that the

Barbie thing has pushed through in the way that it has, which you weren't totally sold on in July, is that there is a huge respect for her. And she is, she is like a handful of other filmmakers, like only two or three others where it's like the princess who was promised. Like we have been waiting a hundred years for Hollywood to finally let a lady be a big star auteur.

And they finally let one happen. You know, the powers that be were finally like, it's time. And you'll get nominated every time you make a movie. There will be a huge media frenzy. That's really disrespectful to Nancy Meyers, but okay. She is not that. She's not. She's a great filmmaker, but she's not that.

I agree. Greta has, there is a modicum, not a modicum, there's an overwhelming amount of respect for her that female directors didn't used to get. That's true. So.

That's why I said that's disrespectful to Nancy Meyers but anyway. Right. Hollywood at large is disrespectful to Nancy Meyers.

Yeah. Nancy Meyers, whom I love and whose films I have always loved. I tried out the sheets that Nancy Meyers recommends from L.L. Bean.

They're awesome. Thanks for weighing in with that. People might want to know. They're always on sale. They're affordable. They should definitely go to LLBean.com to find out. You can read the customer reviews there. I think Martin Scorsese and Yorgos Lanthimos are locked in here.

I do as well. And then I think it's Jonathan Glazer. Yeah. Right now, Alexander Payne is in that spot for the DGA. Yeah. I think it's between the two of them. I guess there's an outside chance Justine Triet gets in there, but I think it's really more of a screenplay thing.

And if it's Payne, I won't be shocked. He's been nominated, I think, three times before in Best Director. The Holdovers is beloved. He's beloved. I'm not trying to neg the Holdovers at all. They're getting to you. Big Holdovers. They're in your head.

No, it's an 8 out of 10. I'm good with it. And also, like, I think the thing that could come into play is people thinking, like, this is the last great Alexander Payne movie or something. That's sort of like, we gotta get him his thing that he deserves.

Before he, before he's not making movies. Like the fact that people view this movie as a miracle because they don't make them like this one anymore, which they don't, of course. Yeah. Something we cry about all the time on the show.

So I could see it. And Glazer, you know, that film's difficult in a variety of ways. Yes. But every single person I've talked to who's seen that movie is just like, wow, that's a work of art. So I'm going to go Glazer. You're comfortable with that?

I am. Again, it's an international voting buddy. Best picture. All right. Go through it. Oppenheimer. The Holdovers. Killers of the Flower Moon.

Poor Things Barbie American Fiction Past Lives Anatomy of a Fall Did I already say that? Nope Maestro

The Zone of Interest That's not ranked in order of Those are the 10 nominees Yeah At PGA And I think those will be the 10 nominees At the Academy Awards. Will this be a boring pod next Tuesday?

If we get everything right, then I think we'll be sort of miffed at the Academy for not surprising us. So then that can also be interesting. Also, keep in mind, I've agreed to come to your garage at 7 a.m. I want to thank you for that. But I mean, that will be interesting, you know? If we have a super chalk Oscars, which I doubt we will for the nominations, then maybe you don't have to come over.

Maybe we won't even do the pod. Maybe we'll cancel the show. Okay. That seems like great rules of conduct. Maybe an overreaction. Yeah. Okay. We'll see.

Let's talk about Mean Girls. Okay. I'd like to give you my perspective on Mean Girls. Oh, wonderful. Thanks so much. You're welcome. I've been waiting so long. As is America.

I've been getting knocks on my door. Sir, when will you pot about Mean Girls, the number one film in America? Samantha Jane and Arturo Perez Jr. directed this adaptation by Tina Fey of a screenplay by Tina Fey of a musical by Tina Fey. This film stars Angori Rice, Christopher Briney, Rene Rapp, and Alie Cravalho. So I don't think I really saw this movie coming. I knew it was coming out. I bought my ticket to go see it with America. But I didn't really have very high expectations at all.

And I loved it. I thought it was so good. I knew it was a musical, but I hadn't put a lot of time into that. And there's been this big conversation about movies that are musicals that are not being marketed as musicals. We can talk about that a little bit. I'm of course a huge fan of 2004's Mean Girls.

Who isn't? You're not an American if you don't like Mean Girls. Huge fan of Tina Fey. When I look back on this I'm like of course you liked this you liked the original movie never saw the musical

staged but frankly as I just told you when I walked in didn't know who Renee Rapp was that was not a person I was aware of apparently she's a big star

but I had a ton of fun and can you describe your movie going experience yeah I can it was very similar to Barbie it was one weird 41 year old man sitting alone in an imax theater surrounded by young women who were just like wearing pink and yellow and and teal and we're just rocking out did they know the songs

were they singing a few people but not a lot a few people um so i don't know how much the music has permeated the wider sphere beyond your typical theater kid kind of energy. When I was on Letterboxd, as I often am, reading the reviews of the young people, many of them noted that they were familiar with some of the songs from TikTok, but then to see them in their fuller setting gave depth to the... So I guess if you're going from depth to the so i guess if you're going from tiktok to the uh the movie musical um that's additive i wouldn't say that that was my experience but you didn't see it with a lot of happy people no no no that i walked away being like wow these songs have real depth um no i i didn't feel that way whatever i i saw it um i saw it with four other young women. It was me, a weird middle-aged woman, and then four friends who came together in the middle of the afternoon.

Were they like 11 years old? No, no, no. They were like in their 20s, and they had a great time. Oh, you weren't with them? No, no, no, no, no. Oh, okay. You were sitting alone, and they attended the screen? Yeah, and there were five people in the theater because I went on a Tuesday afternoon.

It's fine. Don't worry about it. And they had a delightful time, And I also had a delightful time. Completely charming. I was skeptical, but I was very charmed. Yeah. I wasn't even skeptical. I was just like, this won't be good, but it's probably something people are going to want to hear us talk about. And then I came out of it really enjoying it. And you know, it obviously has a ton of connectivity, almost a verbatim connectivity to the original film. Yeah. It's very much like, you know, when we see a Lord of the Rings movie, you know, 10 years from now,

and they're just like doing the same shtick. It's kind of like IP recreation in a way. But I really wasn't bothered by that. It stuck out to me a little. That was one of the things that, because they really play, like, the iconic lines and jokes and things that have become memes, like, as moments, but they really do it verbatim. Like, and so that's weird with a joke. It's not as funny. Like, no joke is funny when you know what's coming in the same way.

As opposed to the new jokes jokes which i thought were very funny well and then you know sometimes like for it's october 3rd you know which is like a and and maybe this is a thing where i'm just like very deep in mean girls i i have much of it memorized not because like i've i've seen it a lot i love it i and and I was in college when it came out. So like it hit me that the 2004 movie that is like hit me squarely where I was in life, but also it just really lived on the internet and has lived on the internet for 20 years. So every October 3rd, you get that meme of the Aaron Samuels turning around and Katie being like, it's October 3rd. And the movie does something funny where after he does that, they have like the choir go, it's October 3rd, you know, being like, it's October 3rd. And the movie does something funny where after he does that,

they have like the choir go, it's October 3rd, you know, which like that's at least like making a meta joke of it. And they do that a few times. I thought that was great. The ones where they just play it straight, like when Renee Rap, Regina is like get in loser, you know, or they like the, you can't sit with us and all of these things.

So you think you're pretty. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like this is you're just this is like a high school musical

like this is weird. But this is what remakes do. I know. They echo closely. It's just it stuck out to me. That's all. Things that came before.

Yeah. I guess if I'm not going to give Transformers and Spider-Man shit about that I'm not gonna like then I'm definitely

not gonna give it to Mean Girls you know it's like this is a beloved thing new it's literally a new generation

it's 20 years later they deserve to have their version of it they do I'm perfectly fine if this is the newest Star is Born where every 20 years

another auteur comes along and is like I've got a take on this and here's my version in this case it's like this is the social media Mean Girls this is if you grew up with a cell phone in

high school unlike us this is what your mean girls is and is it like entirely accurate i don't know i don't have a teenage girl i don't know any teenage girls but i will and the movie's very scary when you see it from that perspective is it though because that's the other thing and and i liked it about this and i think it's a little bit because it's a musical i think it's a little bit because like kids are like smarter and and kinder and have better therapists than we did 20 years ago or whatever but like it's nicer like it is a little bit a little bit, but especially, I think the edges are sanded off the plastics. And most of the jokes don't have the same bite. And there is more empowering, like love yourself.

Everybody is a star shining in the sky, which you all are. And I think that's a good good thing but that to me did feel like a generational like update as well i still thought the movie was pretty unsparing in its portrayal of regina i thought renee rapp was a pretty mean toxic difficult gal she was like yeah pretty much like not letting anybody fucking get in anywhere without her permission. And I respect it. I respect that the movie was not trying to refurbish her reputation in any way. Her musical numbers are interesting.

I thought they were both really... I thought the two critical... The one at the party in particular. Yeah, no, they're good. I thought that was an amazing bit of filmmaking. I thought it was really good. No, they're really good. But they are... Everybody else is doing kind of amazing bit of filmmaking. I thought it was really good. No, they're really good, but they are, like, everybody else

is doing kind of run-of-the-mill. We're doing a musical and, you know, they also, they have a TikTok number that I thought was very funny and, like, was very natural

in context and was clever. That was the slutty costume thing. Yeah. But so, you know, but Renee Rapp, who is also a musician,

who is the musical guest on SNL this weekend. Did you know that? I did know that who is also a musician who is the musical guest on snl this weekend did you know that i did and jacob alorti is that's hosting i will see all of my gen z babies there um she like she has like full on beyonce you know she's post beyonce post rihanna white girl yes yes um but like the whole the rest of the movie stops she is singing you know she's like doing her full pop star like vamping the the way it's shot is very different very sexualized very dramatic and choreographed yeah um which i mean and she's she's very very good but it's kind of like the movie stops and she does a number and then it keeps going. I think it's because the movie knows what it has in her.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she is like a little apart from the movie, which I guess Regina George is in the original, but I don't. I'm a big Angori Rice fan, going back to the other guys. I think she's a really good actress, really good on Mare of Easttown it's just that you know the absence of Lindsay Lohan and the the Lindsay Lohan Rachel McAdams kind of anti-chemistry and star power is a big part of why that movie is so successful right and Angori Rice just kind of can't hang with Renee Rapp in that particular way right she's actually a much subtler actress which is not actually the skill you want in a musical. You actually want to be what Renee Rapp is,

which is this kind of like outsized, almost absurdist performer. And she's up for it. She's game. Yeah. You know, Avantika too, who plays Karen, is also like a really big, over-the-top kind of performer. She's like 2X-ing whatanda seyfried is doing yeah and she

gets sexy the tiktok number and i think she's wonderful in that the the rest i you know and this is a little bit dear i'm the the fan of the original just being like okay but that's not amanda seyfried you know and that's and that's not it's just a different tone you know inherently a musical is just inherently going to be a different kind of comedy from that very manicured tina fey punchline and characterization right like she writes great jokes but she got the drama of those circumstances it didn't really matter for me those moments i was kind of like huh to myself but i had a great time it hangs together it does i had to go to the bathroom for the whole time

and I never got up really? yeah so Alihe Cravalho and then plays Janice who is the Lizzie Kaplan character and she's wonderful I did not know

until I went home that she's like literally Moana yeah and then Jaquel Spivey plays Damien and he gets a bit

where he that's new where his performance at the talent show is the theme song to iCarly in French which is

one of the funniest jokes I mean it was really good it was like a slow reveal to where it was like tight on his face and then backing up in black and white

yeah no it was like that was like really funny and then also when he recaps the Regina Janis drama he uses plushies

and I also thought that was really funny so they were great Busy Phillips' hair looked amazing Gina Janis drama. He uses plushies. And I also thought that was really funny. So they were great. Busy Phillips' hair looked amazing. Brilliant casting. Yeah, she was great. She was great.

But I was also just like, wow, that's a really good hair color and length. And should I have my hair that length? And then so- When will you bring Juicy Couture sweatsuits back to the big picture? They're back. But to the big picture? I was never a,

I wasn't a Juicy person. Despite all of your J-Lo valorizing? Sure I was never, I wasn't a juicy person. And despite all of your J-Lo valorizing. Sure, but yeah, that's for J-Lo. I can respect what's going for J-Lo and understand that that.

What if I started rocking pink juicy couture? I would honestly love it. That would be great. I'll think about it. Lindsay Lohan does make a guest appearance in this film.

She plays the MC during the famous mathletes moment near the end of the film. I thought she was pretty good. Yeah, she was. There was a little bit of like Invasion of the Body Snatchers

Lindsay Lohan going on. I mean, it's very complicated. Yeah. I want the best for her. I do too. Also a boy mom, you know. She's a boy mom. Yeah, we're just out here.

Is that true? Raising, you know. Who's her partner? I don't know. Okay. If you don't know, then you must truly be anonymous. I mean, I know who it is, but I don't know okay if you don't know then it must truly be anonymous i mean i know who it is but i don't remember his name it's not like a famous person we used to be a

proper country when long island could produce rising stars like lindsey lohan um and me and uh and natalie poorman yeah well she made it she did it She got to the other side. Did you miss Rachel McAdams and Amanda Seyfried? Yes, I did. But, you know, again, I am a woman of a generation. I'm trying to relate to the next generation, but I'm still me. So, can I share a little bit with you about Renee Rapp's publicity tour? Can I stop you? No.

But I do feel this is material because i mean it this is like truly star making stuff she i don't know if she is media trained but um she is giving the appearance that she's just oh she's loose this is her whole thing she's rolling out whatever she wants including um that she's ageist and that she really doesn't like millennial women so i'm i'm like really aware of wow yeah she also um put a guy named buddy who runs a tour company on blast because he was really mean and misogynist to her mom and all of her friends who she works with and what are some other highlights i mean like this like, this is a thing. And in many ways, I'm like, well, I would have liked to see Mean Girls with actually Renee Rapp's just life being Regina George. Like, there's something very, very powerful going on.

But, yeah, she's just letting it fly. And it's great stuff. And I'm excited for everyone. I got to look into that. Yeah. I would say that there is a boldness in that performance. And also, also like a kind of fearlessness with the way that she's portrayed that i think you never watch sex lives of college

girls i did not in fact i was speaking with our dear friend phoebe about this and she was like filling me in on the whole drama of like her leaving the show yeah and i think those are the millennial women in question who she doesn't like um which is you know i i can't comment on that um i don't like most other millennial women, including myself. I did enjoy that show. And I thought she was really good on it. So I'm sorry she had a bad experience. You just pierced the veil and tried to move on so quickly.

Wow. A rare moment of self-psychologization from you. Anyway, she was very good on that. It took the Mean Girls musical to get that out of you. I am noting it here in my document that that just happened. Now is a good time because you're feeling so vulnerable to talk about all of us strangers. This, of course, one of the most emotional movies of 2023. A film that you and I've talked about a couple times on the show.

I think it's still not the easiest to see. If you haven't seen this movie, we will be spoiling some material aspects of it because it's hard to talk about without doing so so I would just say thank you for listening to the

first hour of this pod because there's gonna be a conversation with Andrew Scott afterwards and that's also gonna be a little incoherent

it's a new movie from Andrew Hay who has directed a handful of films created the looking TV series for HBO Darted Weekend 45 years lean on Pete I Weekend, 45 Years, Lean on Pete. I had him on the show for Lean on Pete about five or six years ago.

Lovely guy, English filmmaker. He's adapted a Japanese story called Strangers by Taichi Yamada. And it's effectively a kind of ghost story queer romance. That's, I guess, the best way to describe the movie in a nutshell, though it's not a very good nutshell movie. It's a movie of big feelings and emotions. And the movie, to some extent, defies explaining. And later on, we'll get into some of the attempts to explain it,

which feel unrewarding to me. But also, I've spent a lot of time thinking about them. Yeah. Andrew Scott did something similar when we were talking, which is like, the more you try to unpack what it is and what it means, actually, I think the less effective the movie is, and it's not really dependent on that. I, of course, as a podcaster and movie obsessed person will try to talk through the meanings or decisions in the story, but it's not that kind of a movie. It's a cloud. It's not a sunbeam.

You know, it's just like, except that there is a kind of impermanence to this experience and that it's very powerfully told. Stars Andrew Scott, Paul Meskel, Jamie Bell, and Claire Foy. And that's it. There's only four actors in the whole movie. Andrew Scott plays a screenwriter, a lonely screenwriter, living in a flat all by himself in London.

And he seems to have had a hollowed out existence. It seems like, in fact, the world he's existing inside of is basically barren. It's almost post-apocalyptic, the way the movie frames um society at the opening set like it seems like the building he lives in is empty yes and you only you see london just through the window of him looking out yes um except for one man who he spots a man named harry and he's played by Paul Meskel. And Harry catches his eye, and he catches Harry's eye, and Harry knocks on his door, and Kate's holding a bottle of Japanese whiskey. He's quite drunk.

He's very drunk, and he wants to enter. He wants to hang. He wants to spend some time together. And Adam, Andrew Scott's character, declines. He declines for whatever reason. He doesn't feel good about how drunk he is. He's shy. It's not a good time for him. He's going through whatever reason. He doesn't feel good about how drunk he is. He's shy. It's not a good time for him.

He's going through some things. He's working. We don't really know, but he declines. He doesn't say it, yeah. He just kind of closes the door. He just closes the door. And the next morning he wakes up

and he gets on the train and he takes a trip out to his hometown and he goes to his parents' house and he discovers something very interesting there, which is his parents, at the age he is now. Yeah. It's slightly more complicated than that, but. Explain it.

Well, so he goes back to the house and he's looking for it with a picture that he's holding. And then he goes off and then he sees a very handsome man on a field, I guess. In the distance. Yeah, in the distance. And the man gestures to him. And so you think there's something romantic going on here or similar. And then you learn that the very handsome younger man is, in fact, his dad. And his dad leads him home and is like oh your

mom's waiting for me for waiting for us and you get home and and his mom the handsome man was jamie bell his mother is claire foy and they're just there in the house and they are delighted to see him and they and so he begins a series of visits with his parents, who we learn shortly thereafter, died in a car accident when he was 11. and learning about each other and having family reunions and sharing things that maybe they couldn't discuss when they were all together the first time around. Specifically, Adam comes out to his mom. Then he doesn't really come out to his dad, but they have a conversation about it.

And so they both have conversations about what it means to be gay and his love life and his his life in general and his identity as a kid too yes yeah and who he was and how they saw him or didn't see him and and their relationship to him and how they were parents or or weren't parents and so as these visits go on and Adam, a.k.a. Andrew Scott, is kind of like re-exploring his childhood and reconnecting with his parents, who we know to be dead. And he also starts a relationship with Harry, the Paul Meskel character. mescal character and you kind of get the sense that whatever he is working through with his parents is allowing him to be more emotionally open to take a chance and so then he also he starts a a relationship with harry and they also have a lot of conversations about harry is is younger he's the gen z stand-in andrew is gen x so they talk about their different experiences the experience of being gay or queer depending on who's talking

across two generations they talk about that vocabulary um and you know it's not without its issues in the form of some ketamine and some other stuff, but they seem to be going along. Yeah, they are falling in love. Yeah. The movie is very frank about its sexuality. Andrew Hay has always been very direct about especially sex between two men in films. I mean, if you just watch Weekend, you can see that there's a level of intimacy that is portrayed in that movie that you won't find in your common love story in, in 2024.

But I think that the decision to make, to kind of pit these two generations together and against each other is really fascinating because it's obviously revealed a lot. Like if you look at, if you read a lot of the criticism of this movie, some of the criticism is, oh man, another like

sad queer love story what a fucking bummer this is so annoying that we only get this kind of recognition when framed by this the sadness of coming out to your parents or the impossibility of a romance or all the way that society influences our ability to like love ourselves and to feel loved and then there's another perspective on it which is like um this is a movie about um like memory and impossibility and it's actually not just about some of these like obvious themes that you would find a traditional romance or a traditional movie about a boy and his relationship to his parents i think if you if you like see the movie and respect the movie in its totality i find it to be be very effective. The minute you start dissecting the pieces of it, it starts to fall away a little bit. And I found this because the first time I

watched the movie, I liked it. I liked it a lot. I cried a couple of times, like as hard and like ugly as I've cried in a movie, but that's because I've got my own things. I have a dead mom and a weird relationship with my dad. So like a movie like this is so powerful. Like it is so like it is so impossible to not think about your own experience when watching a filmmaker sort through his experiences or what those experiences are like. Like I think Andrew Hayes' parents are still alive. Yes. But I think I believe his partner's parents have passed on. So he spent time talking to his partner's parents to better understand his perspective and then fuse that into the story and then obviously a lot of his experiences in romance are wended into this story too and it's an adaptation of a story too so he's kind of like

blending all of these different experiences to sort through adam's journey which obviously is ultimately very personal very self-reflective and the movie is literally filmed in andrew hayes childhood home yes so i think it's a real like what you bring to it kind of movie because if you bring to it a kind of skepticism or a desire to understand the mechanics i think it becomes harder and harder to love but if you are willing to flow with it inside of your own feelings right which i'm not always ready to do like i but i think it's very effective at at creating those feelings and that tone and so whatever you're bringing to it in terms of your experience and your feelings i i don't have a dead parent but i this was very weird this was the first movie i think i've ever watched where i was watching it as a mother and you know it helps that Claire Foy my favorite

person alive plays the mom but she is doing something amazing with um feeling like she's failed as a mom feeling like you know regret that she hasn't been there that she hasn't always been known what to do um that I like I'm and I'm I'm like trying not to cry right now, but it just like, it got me so, so hard in terms of like my own fears and just kind of, you know, like, cause you never know what's going to happen and when, what you could lose out in someone's life. But so to understand it from the other side, I was like, wow, it just, it got me. And once it started, I didn't stop. someone's life but so to understand it from the other side i was like wow it just it got me and once it started i didn't stop so you know that's the parent thing you have the kid thing you know we're both straight so we can't speak to the the intergenerational like you know queer discussion and representation and and people i think have really varying reactions to that there's a lot

of good writing about this yeah so um and then and you know the there's also something about just the actual romance itself and and then maybe we can talk about the reveal the meaning of the conclusion yeah and and so this is if you didn't listen to our other warnings this is like full spoiler so well let me just say you mentioned the ketamine part. I think that's kind of critical to understanding where the story's going

because there's a sequence after a couple of meetings with his parents. Just two particularly heartbreaking and like brilliantly written and acted sequences. One conversation

between Adam and his mother and one conversation between Adam and his father. I would imagine that you love the mother scene and I love the father scene. I love them both. But they're both really great. I mean, when Jamie Bell is just like,

I'm sorry I didn't come into your room when you were crying. I mean, like, what do you do with that? Crushing, really, really well done. The movie takes on like a kind of a flight of fancy after this where he and Harry are set to have a big night out. They're going to go to the club. They're going to get drunk. They're going to do drugs. And Blur's to have a big night out. They're going to go to the club. They're going to get drunk. They're going to do drugs.

And Blur's Death of a Party is played. It's like an amazing needle drop. And I asked Andrew Scott about playing drunk and high and how you do that. He does it very well in this movie. But the movie kind of tilts once that sequence happens and it becomes clear that what is happening at that party is a bit of a suggestion of what has actually happened

to the Harry character. And as we get near the end of the film and we've had this really emotional kind of final conversation with his parents together at a diner. I mean, that stuff is just... Also brilliantly staged. See this movie if you haven't seen this movie and you're still listening. It's very, very, very good. Like in parts, ultimately, like does it add up to five-star masterpiece?

To me, it does not, but that doesn't take away from how it made me feel. You skipped also the scene where I really lost it when, and it's more parent stuff. In the bed. Yeah. Yeah. And this is after they decorate the Christmas tree to Pet Shop Boys, You're Always On My Mind. And then Adam gets into bed with Claire Foy. And they,

he starts talking about all the things that he imagined that they did together. And she's like, who did you live with? And how was it? And I think I could have gotten better as a mother. And, you know,

it's like, and then, and then in like one shot, it, it, he's gotten in bed and it's Claire Foy and Jamie Bell, his dad, but then it pans over and it's Paul Mesy and jamie bell his dad but then it pans over

and it's paul meskel so shortly thereafter the adam character goes to harry's apartment to go find him and he comes upon the fact that harry is there and he's dead and he's been dead for some time um his body is actually decomposing and it then fully becomes clear if it was not already that there's a kind of true ghost story quality to the movie that we don't think it's ultimately clear that none of this was a kind of reality that was being experienced that this is someone in Adam who is he having a dream? Is he having a nightmare? Is he writing a screenplay? Is he at the end of his life and having a vision of what could have been in these various ways? Is he dead? Is he writing a screenplay? Is he at the end of his life and having a vision of what could have been in these various ways?

Is he dead? Is he dead? Yeah. There's a lot of different ways to read it. You know, he has a final conclusive conversation with Harry while in Harry's apartment with a Harry who is alive. This vision of Harry that he has gotten to know. And they talk and they talk about Harry's death and how he died and how sad that is and they talk about drugs and alcohol and how you know dangerous those things can be we we

see pretty clearly that the person who has died is the person that he met on that first night that it's like we see the bottle of japanese whiskey that he was holding that night we see the tv that was flickering in the background that when he sees him across the window it's pretty clear that everything that has transpired in this movie since that first night is in kind of the life of the mind. And then they essentially, like, they keep talking and they have this warm embrace near the end of the film.

The film closes with Frankie Goes to Hollywood's Power of Love. Beautiful needle drop. I guess one of Andrew's favorite songs, Andrew Hay. And the bed that they're on, like, there's a long pull away. And increasingly, the setting surrounding them, like, falls into a kind of blackness. And then it's revealed they're kind of in the stars. And then they become a kind of metaphysical afterlife or

more uh cosmic reading of what happens to people after they've passed on the first time i saw it i was like i don't know i'm not really thinking about that and don't care um i i didn't either the first thing first time i saw it i thought about in the in this scene when he climbs in bed with cla Foy, one of the things that they do that he says that he imagined they did is they went to the planetarium. And so it's just, you know, that all of the stars are different. You've taken Knox to the planetarium? No, I don't know whether he would like it yet.

Oh, Alice loved it. We went over the summer. Knoxie doesn't sit still yet, you know? We're getting there. That was a rare, that was one of the first times actually that I felt like she sat still. We went like the summer. Noxie doesn't sit still yet. You know? We're getting there. That was a rare, that was one of the first times, actually, that I felt like she sat still. We went, like,

on her birthday. And, like, if we went to the observatory, then he would just, like, try to run outside into Griffith Park, you know? Yeah, probably true. Just put it

in the back of your head. No, I mean, I, you know, I would love to. We went when, at the age that Nox is now. Yeah. Maybe he, I mean, he likes the moon as the show is only

like 25 minutes okay all right we'll think about it okay so just fill them up with food um maybe trank dart you know yeah just try to power yeah yeah yeah yeah um anyway that so that's what i thought about but i was not like did he i like. As a callback to that. I hadn't thought of that. And that ties into what I actually think it means. I mean, there's just something about the stars in the sky or different people and different people who love you or who you love that are all far apart and you can't really connect them. But they're all there shining for you. I don't know. It's like, this might be the saddest movie of the year,

but also I don't think it's like 100% sad. I think it might be like 98% sad. I think that they, I think the filmmakers see it as hopeful. Yeah. Honestly. And that there's a kind of reconciliation that has happened with Adam and his parents and with this idea of a lost love

and that love is possible for this character. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't see it as like a pessimistic movie by any stretch. But it plays some major chords on people who have had

like particular experiences in their life, whether you're a mother, whether you've lost a parent, whether you've lost a loved one, or even just had a relationship that didn't work and you wanted it to work

and you really sincerely tried to stay together or be in love or whatever and it could just could for whatever life circumstances

people changing whatever it is that happened it's very sincere about that but movies are very rarely this sincere and this vulnerable yeah and like a lot of that is i think

credit to andrew scott who is so so good and you do just like he doesn't do very much in the movie but it is a movie about someone in in whatever like realm he's in like sort of trying to like open his heart and and like worked and you see him like very slowly open in real time it's amazing it's a great recontextualization of an actor like this happens every once in a while where you see a performer and you've never really seen them in this light before and i feel like this might actually be who they are going forward like andrew scott's persona to me as an actor and I should say he's a widely acclaimed theater performer. He does Shakespeare.

He does the great American playwrights. He does Greek tragedy. Like he's done it all. But he's known for a kind of like wily intelligence. You know, he's very slick. He's got a great Irish cheer, very smart very verbally dexterous you know hot priest and moriarty those are very like clever elusive characters and this is not bad this is like an ozu movie or um like a bresson movie like it is very quiet and very still not a lot of dialogue. There's a deep sadness

in the character. Super talented guy. And yeah, he's playing Ripley now, which is kind of back to that like wily intelligence that I was talking about. Will you hold

the talented Mr. Ripley against the Ripley series? Will I hold it against it? Yeah. No. Will I? Do I always carry it with me yes so i you know i'm where do they film it where do they film ripley i have to assume on location in europe italy and great

in england i assume i'll watch okay i'll enjoy uh okay let's go to my conversation with andrew scott now We'll have a conversation with Andrew Scott now. Press. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. Andrew Scott is here. Andrew, thank you for being here. My great pleasure. I'm such a huge fan of all of us strangers and your work in the film. I was wondering, did you and Andrew know each other before this film? No, not at all. No, we didn't know each other at all. no. But he was one of those people that I felt like, as soon as we started to talk, I felt a sort of great kinship

with him. I kind of thought that he'd be a little bit scary and auteur-like, but actually he's very light, kind of bubbly sort of person. Yeah, and even though his films can be quite sincere and severe at times,

you know, and very intense. He's been on the show before, and I felt like he found his, I don't know, muse is maybe too strong of a word, but I was like, man, Andrew Scott, that's a great portal for the Andrew Hay thing, you know, the energy that he brings to it. What did you think when you first read the script? I was very incredibly moved by it. It's sort of a little bit messed up, the energy that he brings to it. What did you think when you first read the script? I was very incredibly moved by it. It's sort of a little bit messed up, the script.

Not messed up, but like it's sort of an unusual read. As you can imagine, it's sort of like a dreamlike film and story anyway. And so it actually doesn't depart too much from the original script, which was in some ways difficult, in some ways as a read, because it's so visual as a film, but then it's sort of punctuated by these extraordinary, moving, naturalistic sort of human scenes between family members. And I was really blown away by it. In fact, by the end of it, I was in full tears. He included all the music that's in the film.

The music in the film is sort of incredibly powerful. And the power of love finishes the film. And the very last line of the script was a lyric from that beautiful song, which is, make love your goal. It just gets me. I think it's such a beautiful, beautiful lyric. I had wanted to ask you about the music if you were aware of what the songs were going to be because they're so

critical to the emotional state of the characters. So you knew what those songs were going to be. I still am but particularly when I was younger a huge Pet Shop Boys fan and so the fact that they

feature so heavily in the film is just so cool to me. Did you read any of the source material for this story? No, I didn't actually. I kind of, I often feel that as an actor, your job is to interpret what the

writer of the script has said. And they've already interpreted the story. So I always feel like I never kind of want to know too much more than the audience knows. And so I didn't want to read the original source material because it does differ. It's similar in tone, but it's very, very,

it departs a lot from the original story. Andrew talks about obviously how there's so much of himself in the film, It's very, very, it departs a lot from the original story. Andrew talks about obviously how there's so much of himself in the film, but you've also said the same thing is true for you, that you see a lot of yourself in Adam and in the characters in the story. Is that something that you're looking for when you're reading a script? Like, do you want some personal identification with the characters that you're going to play? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, and the more I act, the more I think acting is about revealing who you are rather than pretending to be somebody else

and finding it from, you know, making up a sort of backstory, so to speak, from another imaginative place. I feel like it's like, okay, well, what would I be like if I was this guy? What would I be like if I was a villain or a prince or a lover or whatever the hell it is but this one particularly i felt like andrew we shot them the sort of childhood uh segment of the movie in andrew haig's childhood home which added a real um i don't know a real sort of vulnerability to it because you're like this is this is where this little boy was was feeling all this fear and vulnerability and you know joy and love and so i kind of just felt like i have to bring the same stuff to the table as as he did i feel like andrew

sort of my my comrade and i sort of felt even though it's not biographical i felt sort of protective of him and i you know you just want to tell the truth in some way. So I kind of didn't want to be caught acting kind of in this one. And just to bring as much of myself to it as I... What do you mean by that? You didn't want to be caught acting? Well, I often think that with any job anyway, you know, like that you're... You just want to see... You just want to believe that person entirely, no matter what the character is.

But this one I feel was so sort of close to my own experience in some way or my own emotional biography, if it's not my actual biography. And so I just kind of wanted just to sort of be, and the way Andrew works, I had a real strong sense, probably from his other films as well,

that the camera was going to be close and you just want to you just want to tell the truth and i think that's a kind of great privilege in some way you know just to be able to go and for that to be seen and something that i felt so vulnerable about in my own life um i never thought i would be in a film like this or to be able to express these things or or at least if I did that, I didn't think I would be able to do it while feeling okay about myself. And so it's so wonderful to be able to do that and cathartic in some way. So why not do it in totality rather than going to an imaginative place where you're like, oh, this character is far removed from me. It's not.

It feels like it's from the depths of a very vulnerable, I suppose, place. I like that phrase, emotional biography. I'm going to borrow that, I think, in the future. Have you ever felt that you've tapped into that in previous roles where you've thought about your own life and your own experiences and put that into the part? I don't think there's a role that I've ever played that I haven't done that actually.

I'm not sure that it's possible to act without going there somewhere or at least to act well. I think you have to think of things that set you off in some way. Even if it's absurd things, I mean, I think it doesn't necessarily have to be a sad place that you have to go to, but like a sense of the ridiculous or just what, I don't know, whatever your rhythm is, you have to bring that through, you have to bring that out through the right, you're an interpreter, I suppose, you know. And so you have to use whatever's at hand. So yeah, I

always, particularly in the theatre, you know, where there's a huge amount of stamina needed and you have to perform huge stories or huge characters eight times a week. So I suppose do need to go, what am I thinking of? What's the thing that's, who am I thinking about? And it's usually people that I think about rather than experiences necessarily i think about people in my life the film is very cinematic but the construction of it is a bit more like theater it's four-hander very absolutely absolutely yeah it is very still at times yeah uh i was hoping you could help me understand how you forged the two chemistries that you needed to forge with the actors who play your parents and then Paul Maskell's character because particularly um Claire Foy and Jamie Bell are younger than you yeah in real life yeah and uh so obviously just the concept of the character

meeting his parents at a certain stage of his life that resembles the stage of that that in itself is uh one of the most fascinating parts absolutely yeah and seems like such an interesting challenge but also these actors who are you know you're close in age but that still must be quite strange to be trying to channel that energy whereas if you think you were looking at your parents they would have white hair yeah and they would be a bit crooked you know well it's so it's so about memory the movie and um he conjures up his parents. You know, the story is about a lonely man who conjures up his parents when he remembers them most acutely,

which is when they were in their late 30s, when he was a little boy. And that's how he remembers them. And I think that's the way our memory works as people. I think that people, not necessarily people who have died in our own lives but people that we remember you know former lovers when we were in our 20s or in our teens or whatever you don't think oh I'm we remember them we like if I were to think of somebody like that now I wouldn't be thinking I wonder what they look like now you you think of what they look like then and in exactly the same way, that's why the concept is sort of, it's an audacious kind of premise,

but actually it makes a lot of psychological sense. One of our worries was, is this going to be weird? Is this not going to work? What the hell is this going to be like? But actually, it was so easy. Number one, because the scenes were so beautifully written. So if somebody's playing a father you just automatically go into sort of play the son that's just why i

don't know and in the theater it's like what you say i think is really true we accept that so much you know an actor can come on and play seven different parts and the audience would like readily accept it but in the movies we do we're a little less um encouraged to use our imagination in that way and i love the fact that there isn't a kind of ghostly glow around jamie and claire to signify that they're it's very naturalistic and um and actually it made those scenes incredibly easy to play we didn't i never felt this is preposterous. I just felt like I was looking at these brilliant actors,

you know, playing parents with such a much love and it was a real lesson actually because you just think, wow,

in the movies I think we can be a bit more audacious with the form of it a little bit and I think it really works

so beautifully in the movie. I was wondering about this and maybe how you and Andrew might have talked about it too because movies are kind of inherently

logical and mechanical and I think a lot of people I sat with people at a film festival and saw the movie and just weeping

I'm sure you've seen this many times people just sobbing uncontrollably because the movie just taps into something so profound but in the discussions afterwards people trying to kind of unpack and understand the mechanics of the storytelling and I think it is one of those

movies where kind of the less you try to I agree clarify the better well I always I always think of it like the the the feeling is so intense. And not just sadness. I think there's a kind of, I think there's a catharsis in the movie and there's a great hope in the movie and people are greatly affected by it, but not necessarily depressed in any way. It's not a depressing film.

But what I do think is important about the film is that in exactly the same way when you wake up from a dream and you can feel completely desolate or you can feel, wake up from a dream and you can feel completely desolate or you can feel, um, wake up laughing and you, or you can wake up full of rage from a feeling that you, you don't necessarily go to the dream to find out its logic. You don't go, well, what's the plot twist in the dream? Because you don't rely on the dream in that same way.

And I think he sort of directs the audience to, um, to sort of just take it, take it all in. And yeah, it's not like, because people have wildly varying opinions and theses about what's going on in the film. And I love that, that people have very different reactions in that way. So it's not sort of like plot twist kind of movie, even though I think people are, you know, that's the way human beings sometimes, they want to go to go well i feel like this is what it is and everybody else

is incorrect so you don't want to explain what actually the story means to us right now i don't think so that's gonna ruin it for everyone um you and paul yeah that's this is a very uh high level of intimacy and intensity right that you have to put on screen. You guys, did you know each other beforehand? We knew each other a little bit, yeah. We did a kind of comedy sketch together for Comic Relief in London. And we knew each other a little bit. But yeah, not as well as we know each other now. Paul's a big part of my life now.

So how do you prepare to make it real, to make it seem real? Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying. It's a thing about chemistry. How do you prepare for that? And you actually can't, I don't think. Apart from understanding where each of those characters were coming from and i think that's what provides the sort of chemistry and then you have to listen you have to really listen to each other you know it's a kind of cliche about acting though acting is all about um just being very aware of the other person and listening. That's where we find something mesmerizing

is when we're like, oh my God, this is live. Let me ask you a question related to this. Before you perform together, do you go get a cup of coffee and talk in either emotional or structural terms about how you're going to fit together on screen well yeah you do you sort of in this one we had a lot of you know intimacy with a lot of sex scenes um and so i suppose we wanted to we had a conversation about what way that might go

and you know there's an intimacy coordinator now on every movie set which is really good and that allows you to in ways, be a bit more free because, frankly, you just know that if something you're uncomfortable with happens on the day, it's never going to end up in the movie. You're protected, which in some ways you weren't before. So it actually allows you to be a bit more adventurous, so to speak.

But sort of more than that, I think what gets people is the tenderness between the two of them and i think both of us really um really love the idea of playing love it's a very beautiful thing to get to play um and i think we shot it the segment with jamie and claire which is a very intense time we shot that first in Andrew's childhood home and then I had to say goodbye to Jamie and Claire so that was a very tough time and I had to go back into places which were pretty dark you know so actually this segment with Paul even though it has um intense moments actually a lot a lot of it was really beautiful

and joyful and that free sort of like that feeling of falling in love was actually a really lovely thing to do. You get to play

drunk and high in this movie? I like to ask actors how you do that. What is your secret? You do it quite well in the film. Oh, thank you.

Well, I think the thing about playing drunk or high is I think our natural, you know, thing when we're drunk

is to sort of not be drunk. It's like crying or shouting when you're acting. People don't generally shout for much longer than

a minute without somebody saying okay stop shouting you know what i'm saying or when people start to cry they usually start to apologize for crying um and when our people are drunk they usually are trying not to be drunk um and i think that's the the thing is the attempt to um remain sober and it's like all things it's the attempt to remain sober. And it's like all things, it's like when things are sad, when people get terrible news. You know, there's so much stuff about grief in the movie. We tend to look for the light.

And we tend to go, well, you know, I got diagnosed early. Or, well, at least the sun came out on the day of the funeral. You know people that's the way we work. I find that very moving as human beings and sort of

conversely when something is really funny I think it's important to find this sort of soul in comedy too. So it's a long way of answering

your question about being drunk or high. It's sort of nearly trying to try and be sober right don't overplay it

yeah I can almost feel your character like trying to reset himself right that's what I think happens

yeah exactly you're trying to get back to a place where you're swimming in the ocean and you're trying to find the last

available rock right I like that a lot to cling to I'm wondering is it fair to say this is the first, even though it's an English production, kind of Hollywood film that you've top-lined?

I suppose it is. I suppose it is, yeah. Do you have a consciousness about that kind of thing? Do you aspire to those kinds of things? Not really, not really, if I'm honest. I just, when we started filming Stranger, I just played Tom Ripley in an adaptation of the Patricia Ismith novel for, I'd been filming it for nearly a year when the script for all the Strangers came in. And that character is really in every scene in that story. So I wasn't in any way going I need to act

more so and also you just want I just want you want to have I remember when we were doing Sherlock and I played Moriarty in Sherlock and I remember having that feeling like

oh I don't think he should be in that scene take him out of that scene, so that you get a lot of bang for your buck because supporting characters are wonderful in that sense. You sort of go, they should have a beginning, middle, and end as well. So that's what I would look for more than anything, that a supporting character has a sort of,

you want to start at A and you want to get as near to z as possible you know and um but it is interesting playing a protagonist because i suppose you um the camera is just is is using you to tell the story and it's it is a different challenge in some ways and i love it for that sense because you're kind of relaxed in the sense like the story is seen through your eyes and that's kind of I don't know in some ways it's a it allows you to relax a little bit more because you feel like the camera is going to be your constant companion whereas when you're playing a supporting character i think maybe it's necessary um to get the moments um otherwise the character is not just

supporting it's sort of invisible i feel like i'm not sure if there could be a bigger leap between character archetype than from ripley to adam absolutely and the sort of like performative devious sociopathy. I haven't seen this adaptation, but at least what we know about the book. Yeah. To Adam who, you know, it is a protagonist and it's a leading man role, but very recessed and often wordless. Yeah. And deeply emotional, but like, did it take you a long time to figure out how to play a part like Adam on camera? Is there a big difference, say, between that kind of acting

than maybe what you did in the theater or even in television, which has a different register? Right. It didn't take me long. I knew almost immediately. I think that's nearly almost, for me anyway, when I read a script, I sort of feel like you want to know immediately. You feel like I can play that music. I know how to do of feel like you want to know immediately you feel like i can play that music you know i know how to do that so you have to have an idea so you sort of

have to there's loads of the challenge of it actually the big challenge of it was the physicality of it and it doesn't register i don't think necessarily as a particularly physical role but it was very physical to me because you had to go back to a very childish place to give the impression of somebody who's childish who might be around 10 or 11 but not that's not that's not a requirement it's not a necessity but i just thought it would be interesting to see what physically he this is a man who's on his own and is in his 40s and is a loner so to speak and these two things happen to him in the sense that he meets his parents and what physically the way he would physically be with them I think would play a large part of being hugged by your parents again

for the first time in 30 years and also to be physical with somebody else for the first time in a long time so it felt very physical about what way he would how nervous he would be or how childish he might be or how small he would feel or how much he needs to be held and how much then ultimately he's able to hold i you can really feel that physical aspect of the performance in the film um i'm curious about picking parts now. So you've talked a little bit about how you've turned things down in big mainstream projects. But now you are in, you know, being recognized,

being nominated for this film. This is a really critically acclaimed film. Like I said, first Top Line, then you're on the largest streaming service in the known world in a big new series adaptation of a beloved novel don't mess it up hundreds of millions of people will see your face and they will click on your thumbnail face and they will say who's that guy and I want to know what that Ripley show is so no pressure but no pressure uh you know it's an interesting convergence yeah yeah and an opportunity and moment for you.

And there's obviously a chance to work with incredibly talented people. There's also a chance to make a lot of money, candidly. So how do you determine where to go creatively now? Yeah, it feels like a sort of exciting place. And it's very interesting, you know, when people talk about success as an actor and what that is and how that looks like and to me it's always of what what is of the most value and when i was um in the theater and i was touring around england or ireland or wherever i never felt like i was failing i didn't feel like i was a failure because um I was just I was in the theater I was so thrilled

and I suppose in a way now I don't feel like I'm a success I feel like I feel like okay the challenge that I have to do now is like what okay where what um what's gonna surprise myself what's gonna be interesting what's a different note to play that that it's one of the reasons i think i haven't done a lot of long form television television i think because i think it's the chief pleasure of it for me is is to be able to play lots of different instruments in the orchestra and rather than just play one and i i can see the allure of that but for me i like the idea of okay now to play completely different music how would I do that so I suppose the the nice thing is that it's um it's uh it affords you to work with maybe people just want to see your work I suppose a little bit more um and I've always I don't know I've always

um I sort of talk to young actors about it. Like it's the, it's the, it is the biggest power that you have is to be able to say no. And I think, um, if you don't want to do something, uh, you shouldn't do it. It's sometimes I think it's better to work in a, you know, you know, restaurant or something, just keep it and just go, I've done that. And sometimes just, uh, doing something that you've already restaurant or something, just keep, you just go, I've done that. And sometimes just doing something that you've already done or doing something just for a profile or for money or whatever, I think it can close doors for you rather than open them in some ways. You know,

if the quality of the work isn't, isn't particularly good. And I think some, it's easy, it's easy to be sort of puritanical about that because sometimes we just need to work. But sometimes we don't. Sometimes you go, do you know what? I think I'm not going to do that. I'm going to hold off. Hopefully something might be manifested.

I do believe in that a little bit. I think I've always been able to do that, is to be able to imagine, not necessarily a character that I definitely want to play, but I suppose at the moment I'm feeling, for example, that I'd like to be in something that's a little bit lighter and a little bit, you know, more comedic or something. I can't quite put my finger on it, but because my antennae are, I suppose, a little bit up for that, then hopefully that might come into the ether a little bit for me. And, you know, maybe it won't. But then maybe you make it so.

You make something, play something lighter and something that's better. I don't know. It's a strange thing. But I certainly feel lucky now that, you know, I've worked pretty hard over the years. So it's nice to have the ability, I suppose, to be able to not work for a little while and to wait for something that's special. Because it's glorious to be on a set where everybody wants to be there.

It's wonderful. And it's less glorious when people are a bit like, oh, God, I don't want to be in this. You know, it permeates your working day, you know. It really does. In the theater, there are signature parts and there are great parts that actors wait their whole lives to play on the West End or on Broadway or what have you.

And in the movies, it's a little bit different, especially now. It's a little bit like, do you want to be in a sci-fi adventure you know do you want to be in ip you know like the list of you never could have expected that you would be in all of us strangers right because you didn't know what it was exactly three years ago exactly but is there anything like in the movies that you're like i would like to do yeah a movie like this another great question um i'd love to be uh in a musical aha that would be good i really would okay there's something so glorious about musicals and i think whether that's on in the theater or um uh in the movies i don't mind but i think there's something so inventive about the idea a good musical yeah i think it's completely joyful.

Hard to do well, though. Very hard to do well. Yeah. Absolutely. In cinema, for sure. Absolutely. In cinema, I think even more difficult. But yeah,

I think that's, that's something that I'd like to do. And, I don't know, more and more, you kind of think, well, what's, what's going to be of the most value? And,

and, it doesn't necessarily mean playing characters that have the same values as me. uh, I, you kind of think, well, what's, what's going to be of the most value. And, and, uh, it doesn't necessarily mean playing characters that have the same values as me, but I don't really want to spread anything more. What do I mean? I feel like I don't want to, uh, I've got a certain amount of time,

you know, left to live and I want to do stuff that means something to me. And the more i do work i suppose a little bit like all of us strangers which i really see it's what it's a wonderful feeling uh to feel that something is of use to people that's wonderful you know and seeing people's reactions to that and going that i've when people say i've really understood something about or unlocked something for me that I didn't really see before, to me there's nothing more valuable than that.

And I think when you experience something like that, it makes you think, I'd like to find something else that has that same effect in some ways. And that doesn't necessarily have to mean that it's moving or that it's about grief or it's something dark. It can be light, but that it connects with people. Because I do feel like the job of any artist is to help us live a better life. That's what it's about.

As an Irish-American, I've been so pleased to see so many Irish people become great film stars in the last 10 years. I don't know what's going on. I know, right? You tell me. You're from there. Yeah. What happened? Why is this happening now? I don't know what's going on. I know, right? You tell me. You're from there. What happened? Why is this happening now?

I don't know. Isn't it extraordinary? It's crazy. I suppose there's something about the way we are a little bit more international when it comes to casting now. You know, before, when we used to audition for stuff, you'd have to literally put tape in a padded envelope and send it off to Los Angeles. You know what I'm saying? It felt like so far away. Oh, that's interesting. I hadn't quite heard that theory,

but that makes a lot of sense, that it's easier to just get tape and audition. Yeah, that people, that you go, it doesn't really matter where actors actually are. And so, you know, the culture of storytelling is obviously huge in Ireland. And in order to bring people into the room again, people who may have emigrated, you tell stories about them or you may even impersonate them. And I think that's so much part of our culture, the idea of emigration in Ireland and how we keep people alive in our homes in Ireland. So storytelling is a big part of it.

And I think the fact that that's in the culture and that now we have a way of sending off a tape that can be with a casting director in 10 minutes it felt like 15 or 20 years ago

there was something similar happening with Australia importing a lot of talent to Hollywood yeah I know this is not like a you all know each other kind of a thing

but like is there a community of stage and TV and film actors who are like you guys have a group text or something

like I suppose there is to a certain degree I feel like of stage and TV and film actors who are like, you guys have a group text or something? I suppose there is to a certain degree. I feel very proud of them. I feel like their work that's so wonderful, Killian in Oppenheimer, it gives me so much joy to see that being celebrated because he's such a wonderful person and actor and he's just so gifted and he's been so brilliant in so many things and

worked so hard. And then it's very exciting to see someone like Paul, who is again, incredibly gifted and such a hard worker too. I love how hardworking he is. Um, and then all the, you know, other people, Ruth Nega and, um, Barry Cohen and, you know, amazing, amazing people, Colin Farrell and, um, just, just incredible, um, people that I've known for a long time. Andrew, we end every episode by asking guests, what's the last great thing they've seen? Have you seen anything good lately? Um, what was the last, the last thing I watched, actually, was Barry Kittwin in Saltburn.

Tell me about it. What did you think? I thought it was such an extraordinary performance. And Rosamund Pike, my God. Have you seen the movie? I have. She's so funny in the movie. What an incredibly good performance.

Yes, yes. She came from Greece. She had a thirst for knowledge. I don't know anything about anybody. Just so understated. Could you imagine that she knew Jarvis Cocker, though? It's believable. You could buy it. You absolutely could. she came from Greece she had a thousand dollars I don't know anything about anybody just so understanding could you imagine that she knew Jarvis Cocker though it's believable

you could buy it you absolutely could I mean just so so so brilliantly performed by everybody in that yeah it's exciting

I still love I still love looking at movies movies are just so exciting aren't they you said it Andrew that's the whole point of this show thank you so much for being here thank you congratulations you so much for being here. Thank you.

Congratulations. Thanks so much. Thank you, Andrew Scott. Thanks to Amanda. Thanks to our producer, Bobby Wagner, for his work on this episode. Next Tuesday, you heard it from Amanda. She'll be in my garage at 7 a.m.

This is so psychotic. We'll be discussing the Oscar nominations when they arrive. We'll be there bright and early. See you then.