The Big Picture - Our Alternative Academy Awards | The Oscars Show

Episode Date: February 5, 2020

Now that we know how this weekend’s Oscar ceremony is lining up, we’re ready to share some ideas of our own. Wesley Morris joins Sean and Amanda for the first annual Big Picture Oscars to create some new awards for the telecast and find new nominees in the six big categories. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Wesley Morris Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelley, and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs are Super Bowl champions, so for coverage of the game and everything that happened in Miami, check out the Ringer NFL show for their game recap. And on the site, you can read Danny Heifetz on Andy Reid, Roger Sherman on Patrick Mahomes, and Robert Mays on Kyle Shanahan's Super Bowl déjà vu. On the Ringer's YouTube channel,

make sure to check out Slow News Day with Kevin Clark live from Miami with a bunch of special guests like Miles Teller and Glenn Powell. You can watch and subscribe at youtube.com slash The Ringer. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. That's Wesley Morris, and this is The Big Picture. Guys, welcome to a very special conversation show about the Academy Awards, but not just any Academy Awards, our Academy Awards. We're changing things up in The Big Picture this week. We've invited Wesley from The New York Times. Wesley, thank you for being here.

Thanks for having me. Three-person Academy, that makes us the Grammy selection committee. Hopefully less fraught, less racist, sexist, and completely corrupted. Taylor Swift and Ed Sheeran are part of my nomination crew because I want the Academy to tell the truth about who it is. Fun fact, Taylor Swift and Ed Sheeran had movie moments in the last 12 months. If you recall, Ed Sheeran in Yesterday and Taylor Swift, of course, Miss Americana. Who could forget? We're not going to be nominating either of those people.

I'm sorry, you said Miss Americana? I'd have gone to Cats. Oh, wow. That was very generous of you, sir. I blocked that out. We're not talking about that on this podcast. This is not a Cats podcast. No.

We got the owl part, right? Okay, guys. So every year the Oscars come around, we get very angry because they don't represent all the movies that we want to be celebrated. This year, I would say, has been an unusually positive Oscar year in terms of nominations. However, we got stuck in this big conversation about why are there no female directors nominated in the Best Director category? Why are there so few actors of color? Why are there so few Uncut Gems nominations? Why are there so many things here? Wesley may disagree with that. No, we will discuss. You're evolving?

I'm evolving. Oh, that's great. That is exactly the way to put it. We're all evolving. Wesley and Amanda, can you guys just give me some big picture feelings about where the Oscar nominating process is before we dig into our own awards. Well, without going into the math on how the nominations are determined, at least in the best picture category, whatever they did to make them less fun needs to change. Because in addition, I just wrote a piece for the paper about a complicated problem that I have with this year's show. This is the first time where I feel like the homogeneity among the Best Picture nominees just superficially is kind of monotonizing to me. What do you mean by that? I mean, basically what I mean is that like,

there are nine movies, eight movies about white people and like the, the white experience. Yes, there is a white experience. This podcast is often a white experience if we're being honest. And, and one from Korea or South Korea.

And I, I like all of these movies except for one and a half of them. And so the thing that I'm annoyed about is that there isn't, it is not as though there's one movie that didn't get nominated that should have that also featured people who are not white. So my problem is more of an industry problem. And the Oscars, of course, is a symptom of this larger thing. And so I'm kind of just like, I went back just to do some math on how many movies among the nominees for best picture since they expanded to 10 were set in the present. And usually, I mean, the thing that's thrilling about the Best Picture nominees every year

is that you do get some really interesting story that gets told about the movie industry, but also just the movies. And something about this collection of movies as a collection,

as a class of films, kind of bores me. And I, but again, like, I like most of the nominees. And so, I don't nominees and so i don't know it's a weird it's a weird place but they have to change them i think the math is part of this like even i don't

like hustlers that much but but you this this group of movies needs it needs it needs like a blind side it needs uh uh uh district um district nine yeah it needs it needs a district nine you but you think that that so that's i think it's math don't you because so what's the one film that would have resolved some of that feeling is it the farewell like what is it i don't even care that's the weird thing also i don't even care what it was because i don't like any of the alternatives this is a weird year for for the solution to this. There isn't one. There's no main waves. I guess waves would be a movie that would be more interesting. But every year since they expanded to 10 has had just more interesting stuff in it. I have a theory. Okay. And it's not about math. And I think your point

about math is good. And also your point that this is, these are eight movies about white people is also important. I mean, that's everything I'm about to say is not going to change that, but I do just, and it's not going to change the industry and it's not going to change who gets to make movies, unfortunately. But I do wonder if some of it is also like our expectations and our relationship to the nominees, because we're used to being dissatisfied and we're used to finding something that to be mad about. And since they've gotten to 10, and especially in the last couple of years, there are more movies that I'm excited about that are nominated for Best Picture. And even this year, I would say there are five movies that I'm like jazzed about. Same here.

And I'm not used to that. And so I do think and and we're part of doing this podcast and talking about the Oscars is arguing about what was snubbed and what the Academy isn't representing. And I wonder if some of the boringness is just kind of, I don't know where to put all of that energy. I think that for what it's worth, that particular aspect of this year's race, though, I think is an anomaly. I think there's two reasons for it. One, we just happen to get a couple of films from a couple of people who kind of always make big, noisy, special films. Martin Scorsese, Quentin Tarantino.

We got a couple of movies, Marriage Story and The Irishman, that probably would not have been financed by any other studio that got a lot more money than they would have gotten. And so those movies got pushed up to the top. You know, I know you guys probably not huge Joker fans, but that's a highly unusual kind of movie to have been made in the way that it was positioned, marketed, the success that it had. And also the Parasite thing is there's just no, literally no precedent for a movie like this getting this much awareness, appreciation, potentiality to win. The fact that this is even possible right now was utterly unpredictable, even in September, I think.

Right, right, right. And so I think accounting for this year in particular as a bellwether of any kind is a little bit difficult long term. But the point that you're making is 100% right, which is that there's a certain kind of movie that still is always going to get made in Hollywood. And there's a certain kind of movie that it's still really hard to get made. That's movies by women. It's movies by filmmakers of color, starring people of color about different kinds of experiences in the world. So that's not going to change. I think some of what we're going to do here accounts for that. I think some of the

categories that we're creating accounts for that. Yes. I think in general, though, the public perception of the Oscars is it's a little bit stodgy, it's a little bit boring, self-satisfied, but also it doesn't really understand what's fun about movies. No. Well, that's part of, I mean, to the degree that there is a selection committee, it's people's self-consciousness about what they want their taste to be. Yes.

And that to me is part of what I'm sensing about this group of Best Picture nominees though. I feel like, I do feel like, despite the fact that I actually could not subtract one of these movies, or there's a 10th slot, add a 10th movie. Like, what, I mean, you could add a 10th movie. Take your pick, right? Interesting.

Like, set in the present, and at least about the thing that is seemingly the problem by gathering these movies together right um which member of the knives out family is each contender this year that's a good that's a good game we should do that somewhere oh i like that just we don't have to answer that right now but just trying to think of the goop one anyway but i i but i also think that part of the problem, I think that some of the thing that I'm feeling is this, I mean, I don't know. It seems like a revenge against the way things seem to be going otherwise.

Yes. For sure. But you can't prove that, A. And I mean, I'm arguing against myself right now, but it's unprovable. It's just a feeling that I have. It feels like every time they do these blind surveys of these Academy members, there's always somebody who's like,

well, I don't think we have a diversity problem. I just think the movies that star, well, you know, other people aren't as good as the ones I like. Right, or even just that was nice, but it's not an Oscar film, which just covers all manner of sense. And that shows up in every one of those.

But the idea that there is an Oscar film, which there's been an Oscar film since like 1939. Like, that's part of the problem. Yeah, I don't know when it got so calcified. 1917, despite how much I love it, it's an Oscar movie. It is. It's funny, when I was 15, I love it. It's an Oscar movie. It is.

It's funny. When I was 15, I did not think that was pejorative. In fact, I thought that that was really, really meaningful. And my perception of it has changed a lot over time. We're self-conscious about it. If Parasite actually wins, I'm going to feel really freaked out. Because does that mean that I'm basic? Because the movie that I want to win also won the Academy Award.

That is called aging. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I don Academy Award. That is called aging. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I don't feel that way about Moonlight. Yeah. I don't feel that way. That now more so feels like the exception to me. Even though, I mean, in a weird way, here's a good test of this question.

The Departed. I always think about the idea that The Departed is a Best Picture winner. You know what I mean? I think if The Departed was directed by Guy directed by guy richie though it would have had no chance at the oscars yes of course the scorsese it was only the scorsesiness that did that but just looking at it as a movie right like that was the best picture of what was it 2006 i just it just kind of it's a funny thing it's a funny thing. It's a funny thing. That wasn't my favorite. That wasn't the best movie of that year, obviously. Or not obviously. It's funny that you bring that up.

We actually just talked about that exact movie a couple of days ago on this show. I don't know what happens in that movie. Yeah. It's a totally fun and slightly confusing movie. You mean narratively? Yes. Oh, sure. Yeah. What do you mean? What other way? I don't know. Like sexually? Like I actually do know sexually what's going on with Matt Damon in that movie. Congratulations to him. Okay. So if we were going to change the telecast a little bit, there was talk of this last year about modifying the telecast, but I don't want to modify the telecast per se, but I think that there are some categories that maybe we don't need and some categories that maybe we do need. Okay. I'm personally, I just don't believe that the shorts need to be in the Academy Awards. Thank you. No one watches them. They're unseen

by the public at large. Are you mad at that? You want the shorts to stay in. Guess I do. Why? I don't know. But the idea, well, you know, they feel not a part of the rest of the conversation. But is that really how it works? I mean, I'm... But you're talking to the wrong person in a weird way. Like, I actually wish they had brought... I want to see the best bluegrass album winner. Right?

I want to see best... Okay. I want to see best traditional jazz album. I want to see that person win. You're in dangerous territory with Amanda. I personally would like there to be a nine hours Oscar ceremony. Right. Amanda wants to get through this fairly quickly television show you're saying it's its own not work of art but it's at least its own entity that needs to have

a start and a finish and a structure and momentum and energy we can't just like trot out every single movie clip that sean has liked for the past 70 years and then let Sean go on stage and be like, and then another thing about this cinematography, Sean just wants like to, the telestrator, you know? I feel like when you grow up with the old Oscar broadcast that were nobody really, there was no internet for people to run to and complain. It just ended when it ended and it was full of supporting clips i mean for a lot of america they didn't know who pauline collins was they wanted to see like shirley valentine what is that i need a clip this is good shit so you get a clip of pauline collins acting in shirley

valentine no what you get is a weirdly spliced moment of an actor doing the most over-the-top context list part of a movie. You have, if you don't know anything and you're watching this- Do you remember what Julia Roberts' best actress clip was for Pretty Woman? No, I don't. It was her singing Kiss in the jacuzzi. Oh, no. That's all upset. I think we need more clips.

I don't think adding more categories is going to let us add more clips, unfortunately. Get something clarified from Amanda are you saying that they shouldn't broadcast the shorts winner not that that shouldn't be part of a thing that shouldn't be an Oscar that's given out we should just not watch that person win no the reverse

I think that they should have their own ceremony I agree I actually I think when they tried to cut some of the categories last year I thought that was so rude because all of those people are working to make a movie and show every single one of the awards that are in Oscars. Like the shorts, that's a different project. The result of a short film, you're evaluating it differently, make a different short awards.

I agree. Honor more people. And there are no technical awards for the shorts. So what you have is you have 21 awards for feature length films. I think I would back out of that. But that's so strange to even be honoring the shorts in that fashion. I hear that. Which are just not really publicly circulated works of art. I mean, I guess you could go see them in succession in movie theaters, but it's a very small number of movie theaters over a very short period of time. So that whole aspect of it, one, I feel like is very odd. And it's also

like just cynically, it's dead weight for the telecast because nobody tunes in for the results of the shorts. That's fair. Some people do tune in. Some people's family members. That's 312 people. That's not ideal. So that's one I would get rid of that. I would certainly combine the two sound awards.

I don't think we need sound mixing and sound editing. And I think the Academy is probably going to do this in the next two years. Really? So that's one more down. That's a bummer. That gets us down to 20 awards. Wow. You really don down to 20 awards. Wow, you really don't want any changes. Well, I do. Well, I don't, I don't, I'm not good at like,

what's the stunt category? The classic fight for the stunts is the only thing that I, the only, I want to add more than I want to subtract. Okay. Okay. Should we start adding then? I have a lot of ads here. A lot of... Yeah, we made all our own categories. I'm not talking advertisements. Do you not like our categories? I'm talking new categories. I like your... I'm just not good at...

I'm not good at thinking about what should be there. So let's just go through it. Okay. I think we're going to find that you are good at it. But... And that you'll have a lot to say. But... By the end of this conversation,

we will give out new nominations for the six biggest categories. So we will talk about best actor, best actress, best supporting actor, best supporting actress, best director, and best picture with entirely new nominees from any of the other films. We've also invented several new categories. Now, I don't know if we need all of these categories

to revivify the Oscars, but I don't think it would hurt, candidly. Let's do it. The first one is inspired by an award that the DGAs gives out, which is Best First Feature. Uh-huh. Which, to me, is just an obvious Best New Artist style addition to the ceremony, and I just don't see a downside. Well, I do.

Oh, God. Well, as soon as you said Best New Artist, I mean, that is a historically a debacle of a Grammy's feature just because the category fraud and what counts as a first feature. And first feature length film, period. Those are the rules. All right. You have directed your first. Yes, I shall be in charge of this category and all other categories.

That's great. Henceforth. Okay. Here are suggested nominees. Alma Harrell, Honey Boy, Olivia Wilde, Booksmart, Joe Talbot, The Last Black Man in San Francisco, Maddie Diop, Atlantics, Tyler Nilsson, and Michael Schwartz, the peanut butter falcon. Now, you have been a bit circumspect about how you feel about these suggested nominees throughout these categories to us. So how does that strike you, that five? Sounds great.

I mean, sounds great. Like, I don't know who wouldn't be there. I can't think of anybody. Who did we leave off? Anybody that strikes you? No, that is the one other drawback to the first feature. It is a pretty small pool every year. And I suppose the hope would be that if you institute this award, then people

start gaming for it and they actually start trying to make first features. But I think that's pretty optimistic. I would be okay with that. I mean, this is an interesting category because I think in the past you would forget that, say, Barry Jenkins had made a film before Moonlight or that Lulu Wang had made a film before The Farewell. There are people who you would think would be eligible for this the same way that there are a lot of artists who win for Best New Artist at the Grammys, even though they're on their third album. Shelby Lynn!

Yes, exactly. Shelby Lynn! Was Shelby Lynn like 37 when she won that award? Like 10 albums in? I mean, you know, Maggie Rogers. I mean, Lizzo! Yeah. These are not artists on their first.

This would be strictly enforced. Out of that five-some, who do you got? Who do you like? Maddie Diep. I'm also going with Maddie Diep. Me too. I think it's a consensus.

That's obviously one of the best films of the year. Bizarrely snubbed in the best international feature category. I do too. Honey Boy is very good.

We have not spent enough time on that show. We will be talking about it a little bit more as we go through these categories. Yeah. Atlantic's is my winner for that. Wow. Consensus on the first one. I feel great about that. We have a winner for best first feature. Congratulations, Maddie D. You get a big picky. What are we calling these? Okay. Wow. That was weird, but let's go with it. It looks strangely like a toy Oscar.

Now here is where the best new artist aspect of this conversation gets a little dicier. Breakthrough performance. Uh-huh. Yeah. This is a little harder to legislate. Sure. Because I think a 97-year-old woman

could give a breakthrough performance. I like that. Anybody. Anybody could. But I'm good with that. Yeah, that's not a problem. Can I read the suggested nominees here? Absolutely.

Let me just say, they have to add this category. It's so good. All of these people. People fucking love to watch people break through. I guess, what would, I would love to see the Academy write out what constitutes a breakout report.

Would you? Have you read that what constitutes best picture? It's all hogwash. It's all made up. What does it say? It's like, for outstanding work in cinema production. It's nonsense. It's all made up. Well, it say? It's like for outstanding work in cinema production. It's nonsense. It's all made up.

Well, I mean, see, Clado, but I feel like. OK, let's just keep going. Let's just roll with it. This is not the silliest. I kind of say let's acknowledge this right now. Like you're going along with this exercise right now. And I'm so nervous because I know at some point there is something that you don't agree with

or something where you're just going to be like, absolutely not. And I'm so anxious right now just being like, at what point am I going to lose Wesley? At what point is he going to turn on me? You have lost me, yeah. I just, I'm just wondering. But everything I say, I'm like, oh no.

You're like the Steve Schmidt on the MSNBC panel. I feel like I'm a little contract lawyer-y about this only because I want it to be as airtightly official as humanly possible. Okay, okay. Right? I gotta be honest with you. I don't think the Academy is gonna listen to this

and say we should get these guys involved. No, but I am doing this as like a 14-year-old boy who used to just like- Oh, that's so nice. Oh, that's very sweet. There's a part of me that just wants to make sure that this category can actually like continue to make sense over time.

Okay. It's sort of a bit like why I don't understand why the music categories never keep their language. Like why that's evolving and changing. But anyway, it's, you know what I mean? Like it's best original song, but then the quality, like what determines that has changed over time,

what they actually call it, what the score is. Anyway, let's keep going. We're going to keep going. Breakthrough performance. Maya Erskine, plus one. Sure. Jonathan Major's

The Last Black Man in San Francisco. Honor Swinton Byrne, The Souvenir. Paul Walter Hauser, Richard Jewell. Julia Fox, Uncut Gems. Did I have the last one? You did, but I was also thinking about it. Great. This is a pro Julia Fox podcast through Gems. Did I have the last one? You did, but I was also thinking about it. Great. This is a pro Julia Fox podcast through and through.

I'm going to go with Jonathan Majors. Okay. That really is among these five people to me. That's your only winner. Did we miss anything? I had never seen Taylor from Waves. Taylor Russell. Yeah, I'd never seen her before. I think she might Taylor from Waves. Taylor Russell. Yeah, I'd never seen her before.

I think she might, there might be... We're going to recognize her later. Yes, we're going to recognize her a little later in this. But she would be also a good end. And that's a complication too here is if you are recognized in this category, can you be recognized later? This is a thing that I want clarified.

You know what? We can decide. We're in charge for the next hour. Whatever you want. I would say that if you are recognized here, you maybe should not be recognized in later categories. Now, I've broken that rule when we get later on in the show. See, I think that's the reason not to do it.

Like, I don't really like this performance, but what if you're Kevengene Wallace, right? And she clearly goes in this. What if you're Keveng wallace is an amazing question just in general i mean what what's she up to hopefully she's in school thriving isn't she like 38 how old is she now no how long ago is that like 11 yeah 11 yeah she was like a tadpole in the movie that's my whole moral issue with that performance. Okay. Oh, boy. And, like, I have no, whatever. Just spare me.

But, like, say you're Comedienne Wallace, right? And you've given a performance that many people think is just extraordinary. Mm-hmm. But there's this Oscar category called Breakthrough Performance. Well. Like, what do you, can you, like, it either, I don't know what you do. Unfortunately, we're going to complicate that further with another category. Yeah.

Well, we have another category addressing this issue. Are you concerned? Is it like 10 and under? Is that the group that you're concerned about? No, I mean, all right. That's a fair. Let me think of. Oh, Captain Phillips.

Barkhad Abdi. Barkhad Abdi. Oh, yeah. Like he should get to compete. He should be able to, like, try to take an Oscar from somebody. If he garners enough votes in Best Supporting Actor,

then he gets to be Best Supporting Actor. And he's ineligible. You're thinking through this in real time. I like this. Also, you know, I honestly think it's better

for someone like Barkhad Abdi who didn't stand a chance to win the Best Supporting Actor Oscar, but was going to be nominated to win in Best Breakthrough Performance. I think that that's better for him long term. So this is why I think this is a valuable category. I don't know.

Have you seen Barkhad Abdi lately? No, although Tom Hanks did just shout him out at the Golden Globes. I know, I love that. That was wonderful. That was great. Anyway. Captain Phillips holds up.

Jonathan Majors. That's my guy. I agree with this. I think this is like the strictest interpretation of it. You really are a strict originalist, I guess, when it comes to these rules. But in terms of you watch that movie and you're like, who is that person?

And what is he doing next? Well, not only that, but I mean, aside from Rob Morgan, I really don't like this movie. He is the best thing in the movie, and the thing that is best about him highlights what is wrong with... He's so good that he calls into question

the entire framework of this movie. Yeah. I just, I think he's great. We agree, and we've talked about him a couple of times on this show. It's definitely one of the best performances of the year, and it's the kind of performance that the of the year. And it's one of the, it's the kind of performance that the Oscars is usually very bad at recognizing.

Every once in a while, a movie that gets released in May and then something gets caught up in the, in the wave of Oscar recognition, but a small film like this that has, you know, admiration, but a little bit of mixed critical reception that does okay business, but not really good business usually just kind of goes away.

This would be a way to commemorate that. That's why I think this is a good category. We're agreed on Jonathan Majors. Yes. Next, best cameo. Now, this is a little bit of an MTV Movie Awards category here. I like the nominees, though. Okay.

I put one on there just for you. There are six nominees here. I feel like I know which one. Yeah, that was for me and Wesley. The nominees are Keanu Reeves for Always Be My Maybe, Gwyneth Paltrow from Avengers Endgame, J.K. Simmons' Spider-Man Far From Home, The Weeknd Uncut Gems,

Boys to Men Long Shot, and Sharon Stone in Rolling Thunder Review, A Bob Dylan Story. This is a tough one. Great category. I know my answer. Wait, but now is it

is Boys to Men the one that's there for me or is it Sharon Stone no I put Gwyneth on oh Gwyneth oh well God bless you but I'm not falling for that okay

I mean I'm not either though I thought that Gwyneth who does virtually nothing in Endgame she at least knows that she was in this movie right so that is good

yes I think so she's at least familiar with like Avengers in the title until I see video evidence of her saying, I was one of the stars of Avengers Endgame, we cannot confirm that. I'm going to go for pure, just good on you guys for putting this person in there. Sharon Stone's my winner. So for anybody who hasn't seen Rolling Thunder Review, one, you should go watch it. It's just a bizarre document. Two, it's essentially an imagined documentary chronicling Bob Dylan's tour, Rolling Thunder tour in the 1970s. And Sharon Stone's segment is remarkable.

Yeah. There is a completely invented section in which Sharon Stone indicates that as a teenager, I think a 17-year-old, she and her mother essentially joined the tour, and she and Bob began a kind of romance that originated with her being in love with the band Kiss and then being converted to Bob Dylan's shamanistic, folkloric songwriting. Which is, the whole thing is a lie, but it is delivered so rivetingly. I love the myth-making of Bob Dylan and the idea that maybe the best myth made about him is coming from Sharon Stone.

It's just... It's great shit. I do have to make one pitch for Boyz II Men. South by Southwest this year, when they premiered Long Shot, Boyz II Men showed up on screen and people were literally having an orgasm. They were just like,

this is very important to me. Boyz II Men matters. Then at the end of the film, Boyz II Men just showed up and performed Motown Philly. And it was better than probably any movie I saw last year. That's a goose. Okay, these are both bad choices. I love you both very much.

But you guys are overcomplicating this. Like the Sharon Stone thing, that seems very nice. And that's a nice thing that we all have. So rude. But the spirit of the cameo is not for wow sharon stone invented yes of course it's keanu reeves like what are we talking about otherwise that movie is like an it's it's completely unmemorable he's the jonathan majors and he just shows up for so long right so that is my problem with it's too long he's in like

11 and a half minutes of the movie and it actually goes on too long. Like you have anywhere to be or anything else to watch on Netflix. Like, what do you want? I want, well, whatever. I can't, I don't. I'm glad that you got to go to a Boyz II Men concert

and I would have liked to be at that concert as well. It was a very good concert. But it's Keanu Reeves. That concert is my best picture. So you guys are both going Keanu Reeves. I am. No, I'm sticking with Sharon Stone, but Amanda Trey.

Sharon Stone it is, two to one. God bless. Congratulations. I'm with you. Thank you. But he is there too long. I really don't like that movie. But the point of a cameo,

it serves its purpose. It over serves its purpose. Exactly. The movie is a bit of a slog. Best kid performance. Now this addresses some of your Anna Paquin concerns. But again, this is one of those things where there's only one winner. That's true.

This is a good list to read the nominees. This is an interesting collection of people. I strained to get number five, but I'm going to read the list for you. Number one, Archie Yates, Jojo Rabbit. This is Amanda's favorite person in the universe. He's the one with the glasses oh right okay most people I think most humans would pick Roman Griffith Davis who is the star of Jojo Rabbit Amanda says no it's the thank you yes he is he's wonderful that's a

supporting performance yes that that whatever go on number Julia Butters, Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Number three, Noah Jupe, Honey Boy. Number four, Jacob Tremblay, Good Boys. Okay. Number five, Nico Parker, Dumbo. Now, I admit, the Dumbo ad, a little bit of a reach. Um, I just want to say that the kid from Us. Oh, I overlooked him.

I don't remember what his name is, but he is wonderful. And it just hit me right now as we're going through these names. He's not my winner though. Jojo Rabbit. Our Jojo Rabbit actors. What are you guys talking about?

I was going to give Archie, like it's very proud to be nominated. I want Archie to thrive. I think he's going to be the new Home Alone kid. He's doing great. Is he really? I believe so in the TV series that they are doing. Wait, is he going to use an American accent?

I hope not. This can't start this young. I mean, he is. He will star in the Home Alone reboot. Is he going to be Australian or not? They didn't tell me in the Google search. He didn't call me and let me know. What is going on here?

First of all, that's insane that you guys both picked that. No, no, no, no, no. But I want great things for him. He's a real honor to be nominated situation for me. Julia Butters is the winner. Oh, wait. I'm taking it. I'm taking it back.

It's Julia Butters. Yeah, of course it's Julia Butters. Of course it's Julia Butters. It's Julia Butters. Never let me into lockdown. No, no. I lost my mind for a second. Julia Butters. Of course it's Julia Butters. It's Julia Butters. Never let me into laughter. No, no. I lost my mind for a second. Okay, okay.

I lost my mind for a second. I was very nervous. Sorry. I'm sorry. No, I agree with you. And I'm sorry to you. Yeah. And I'm sorry to Julia Butters.

Julia Butters. The young man from us is named Evan Alex, and he is very good. He is very good. He should be nominated and not Nico Parker, so we'll amend the record. Sorry. Okay. But if we're not… Also, Noah Jupe is good in Honey Boy. Oh, he is good. He is really good. This is not his first rode record. Sorry. But we have, I, if we didn't, if we're not, also Noah Jupe is good

in Honey Boy. This is, this is not his first rodeo. He's been in a bunch of stuff including A Quiet Place and I, he's, he strikes me as one of those kids

who's going to be like famous for 50 years. He's a very, very good actor. We always feel that. I mean, there should be like, at some point we'll have

a Charlie Korsmo memorial child actor who didn't quite like.lie korsmo you're really going in the bag today this is you you're bringing it charlie korsmo was like he had a good i mean runs he had a good run he did have a good run he had a really last time we saw him can't hardly wait i think so yeah sad so congratulations to julia butters who is just an icon. Tremendous. She, talk about, there's, I mean, Lupita, for me, like acting snubs, Lupita Nyong'o,

Julia Butters. I don't know how you watch that movie, fill out your ballot, put all the Once Upon a Time in Hollywood stuff on it that you do, and not put Julia Butters' name on your ballot. I just don't, Lupita Nyong'o,

you know, I can't even get into why that. Lupita Nyong'o, you know, I can't even get into why that didn't happen. But... Well, you'll get a chance. Yeah. I know. But Julia Butters. When I moderated a panel conversation

with the cast of Once Upon a Time, Julia Butters just spent the whole time when she spoke dunking on Quentin Tarantino and Brad Pitt. It was just absolutely amazing stuff. She's very, very funny. Best casting. This is kind of a summation of a couple of the categories we've just absolutely amazing stuff. She's very, very funny. Best casting. This is kind of a summation of a couple of the categories we've just been discussing here.

So here are our nominees, some of which are completely in earnest. They are all in earnest. Okay, got it. Us, Triple Frontier, Little Women. I'm sorry, pause. How did I skip over that when preparing for this yeah i added that one keep going once upon a time in hollywood uncut gems oh uncut gems i i agree uncut gems uncut gems because not just because of the people you know but mostly because the people you don't

yeah that's the casting i think there's something about, I mean, I feel like I definitely, I don't, ensemble, whatever. The cast, there should be a casting Oscar, I think. I agree. I feel like there's too much good casting in the world for that skill to go unsung. Well, I mean, the current Academy president, David Rubin, is a casting director by trade.

And there has been this insinuation that they're going to try to integrate that award in the near future. We'll see if the board of directors care about that. Oh, you mean into the just general. Yeah. Into just making it an award because, because it is a part of the craft of movie making.

Definitely, definitely, definitely should be. And if you talk to great filmmakers, they'll tell you like how important their casting directors are to the movies that they make. Uncut gems is, is your winner here. I mean, of all, I'm just going through everything in my mind that is that is the movie that has i don't know where they found the people they found how they persuaded the people they they persuaded um yeah i think it's and you're not just rewarding like the most casting which is once upon a time would

be a good lot of the most yeah yeah i think i Once Upon a Time would be a good... Has a lot of the most. Yeah, I think Little Women and Once Upon a Time are interesting examples of movies that with different casts would not have worked as well.

And so some of that is luck and some of that is good fortune and vision. Yeah. But they're big, shiny movies, you know? Yeah, I don't feel that way about... I mean, there's not a thing

I don't love about Little Women. And I'm not saying the casting is the thing I don't love. But there's something about thing i don't love about little women and i'm not saying the casting is is the thing i don't is the thing i don't love but there's something about like uncut gems does not work right as you don't i mean it this is a movie that solves the problem for two filmmakers i have problems with and the it comes almost exclusively there's two things like you know good filmmaking toward the back end of the movie

and great casting best action sequence I gotta say when I was thinking of this category I really had 2018 in my heart because all I could

think about was Mission Impossible Fallout which is just the kind of movie that should just happen every day it is a very special movie and also would have

fit so many of these categories I thought of Wolf Blitzer's cameo in very special movie and also would have fit so many of these categories. I thought of Wolf Blitzer's cameo in Fallout recently. How perfect that would have been for this award. I'm out on those. No.

Absolutely not. Maybe this is the hottest take, but we have to stop using the real news anchors in the movies, fictional movies. Warm me up. We have to make a distinction.

It's going insane. And I need Wolf Blitzer to stay in the situation. If I see Pat Kiernan one more time, it's always Pat Kiernan too. Like, why is his agent the best one at New York? Going the other way. Keep getting them checks, Pat Kiernan. Shout out to you. You're doing a great job.

We need to draw a line somewhere. First of all, in Fallout, it's so effective because it's not actually Wolf Blitzer. It's Ethan Hunt. Okay. I guess we could make an exception. I don't know. I'm just trying to preserve democracy.

Nevertheless, this was not a year for Fallout and it was not a year for, I would not say incredible action movies. That's oddly a genre

that has been in an odd state of disrepair and overwhelmed by the Fast and the Furious movies, I think, in many ways. And, well,

and John Wick. And John Wick, which will be represented. Yes. But I also, in many ways. And, well, and John Wick. And John Wick, which will be represented here. Yes. But I also, well, anyway, let's just go to the nominees. Here are the five I got. I don't even really love all these.

As a snob. One of these is really bad and I'm not an action sequence snob. Have you guys not been to award shows? Good point. The five nominees, they're never all good. I mean, I think we are trying

to offer a better alternative. But that doesn't mean everything has to be better. Okay, great. The helicopter drag race in Hobbs and Shaw. This is the sort of climactic final scene. That's the one I'm not a huge fan of. I'll explain why I'm booing it if you need me to. It's impressive, but I have a huge logistical problem with that.

And it's not physics. Fire away. He's having a fight with his brothers. There's no rapprochement scene that gets the brothers on board to risk their lives for this BS. I mean, to watch it as an action sequence is great but it makes no dramatic sense.

There's a whole scene missing where the brothers get on board. Anyway. It feels like that movie was really sliced and diced when you go back and watch it. The dog fight. John Wick Parabellum.

I mean again it's the Julia Butters of this category but keep going. The Italian car chase in Six Underground. Now I have some I have some love

for this sequence. Can I just say I have watched this with the sound on and I have watched people on airplanes watch it. Every time somebody watches

this movie on an airplane I'm always like falling out of my seat trying to watch it too it it is such hyperkinetic I think the word is it's I mean he's good at his job he's good at his job he's the best at his job it It's ridiculous. It is arguably the absolute We're talking about Michael Bay for anybody who doesn't know the director of this movie

and that action sequence. I love this movie which is quite bad and I think this is the climax of the movie which happens like seven minutes in.

Says a lot about Michael Bay and other things. It's a long way down after this. Not ideal. The motorcycle duel from Gemini Man, which I think is underrated. And I have advocated for it on this podcast before. And also just like in a weird parking garage

outside of the movie theater. That was a classic. I saw Gemini Man with Sean. And then we walked out and then I just like had to stand at the Grove, I think on like level three while Sean just told me about the future of movies. And I was like, I'd like to go home. I haven't eaten dinner.

Otherwise known as the greatest night of Amanda's life. When it all became clear to her. Oh, Amanda. My condolences. Thank you. The motorball brawl from Alita Battle Angel. Do you guys remember Alita? Another thing that I want.

See, I've watched this on the plane. I've watched people watch it. brawl from Alita Battle Angel. Do you guys remember Alita? Another thing that I want to see. I've watched this on the plane. I've watched people watch it. I have not seen that. I didn't see it. This movie. I have seen the, I, it was so well done. It's long. It's a long fight. 15 minutes. I watched people watch it on the plane. And then at some point I just took, kept track of like the actors I could recognize. I looked it up after I got off the flight. And I was like, oh yeah, that's so much better than I heard it was.

That sequence, that woman, who is she? Her name is Rosa Salazar. She can kick an ass. She was also the star of a really good show on Amazon called Undone, which so few people have seen i would encourage you to check out it's it's brace yourself it's sort of animated um but it's it's very very good and she's very very good i mean but the problem i think i have with that action sequence only having watched it with no sound and and with, like, mostly outside. I mean, I did watch at least half the movie via somebody else's screen on the airplane.

I kind of feel like that's a good test. It is really interesting after you've seen movies to watch other people watching them, what they choose to watch. It was just amazing. It's just, I don't know how they did that.

I don't know how they did it. It's a movie directed by Robert Rodriguez, produced by James Cameron. Like, it's a huge, it's probably the least discussed successful movie of 2019. It's a movie directed by Robert Rodriguez, produced by James Cameron. It's probably the least discussed successful movie of 2019. That's probably true. And it came

out at a weird time. I think it was a March release. It did well, but not amazing by the standards of those two guys and the sort of apparatus around it. I think it was a Fox release right before the changeover happened. So there was a lot of weirdness around it. Look, it's kind of a stupid movie in a lot of ways. Can I ask a question a question about it yeah why does it go on there's a number of like the genius of it

in some ways that there that there is that there are these weird breaks in the fight and so it looks like the fight's over and she's done and then she goes and there's some exposition with somebody and then then the fight starts again it's don't know. It's just, it's like... You want me to explain the plot mechanics of Alita? Please don't. I won't. He doesn't.

I'll just watch the whole thing. I'll just get the answers for myself. Couple words on the dog fight. In John Wick 3. In John Wick 3. It took six months to design and train the dogs to execute this fight.

That's a lot of time for an 11-minute sequence. I'm worried about the dogs. I was going to say, do we know that the dogs... I'm not even that kind of person. I haven't been chatting with the dogs on IGD. You didn't do your due diligence, so now we can't give it the award. That's tough. Yeah, when Chad Stahelski, the director of the movie, was on the spot,

he said that that was the hardest thing he had ever done. And he's done a lot of really hard shit throughout all three of the John Wick movies. That feels like it has to be the winner. That was the first time I'd ever seen anything like that in a movie. There's nothing like that in the history of movies. It's your winner. It's a no-brainer. Although, I'm surprised that we don't have the end of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood on this list.

That's interesting. That strikes you as an action sequence? I guess it does. Oh my God, yeah. Of course, it's super choreographed and, you know, there's stuff happening. There has to be room for snubs too. Like not everybody can be one of the five. You know, I don't have it in this next category either.

I did think about it last night. That's complicated. Should we put it in the... Hit me. I mean, you added something here that you're welcome to switch out if you'd like to. Well, let's just do it the way it is. Best ending. Oh, that's not a nominee.

Let's go. Okay. Let's go. Let's go. The Irishman. Portrait of a Lady on Fire. Parasite. Midsommar.

And I believe the note I have here is Sorry Haters, Spider-Man Far From Home. Now, here's my case for the final nominee here very quickly instead of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I don't remember it. So this is one time when you are allowed to just tell me what happened. I saw this. There's basically drones and they're just droning around. No, that ending

sucks. That sucks. That's not the end of the movie. The end of the movie is... You mean the Easter egg? Yes. Peter Parker... What? Like the thing after the... Yes. Sean! Let me tell you my... I am disappointed in you. Isn't that best Easter egg? That's not the ending. Of course it is. Oh my god. Well, that's

a whole other philosophical conversation that I do not want to be a part of. I'm just going to make my case very quickly here on this podcast that I appear on every time it happens. Okay. Congratulations. So when I saw the movie and the Easter egg happened, which strikes me more as an ending than an Easter egg, where Peter Parker is swinging through Queens. He is with Zendaya, his beloved. They've made a connection. Everything seems great in Parker land. I love you, Zendaya.

She's the best. And then somehow he finds himself to Times Square and on the big screen in Times Square, we see J.K. Simmons, aka J. Jonah Jameson from the previous Tobey Maguire movies reprising his role. And he reveals the identity of Spider-Man and he says Spider-Man is the Queen's teenager, Peter Parker. In the movie theater, that was the loudest vocal reaction I had heard to a movie in 2019. People were like, oh shit, when that happened. Now, does that make it like an artistically beautiful statement? No, but movies are just trying to draw a reaction out of people. Life is dull and bland and punishing. And sometimes if you can get excited in a movie theater, I think that that is effectiveness. But it's not an ending. So let me just-

Sure it is. It's a cliffhanger ending. No, it's a teaser. It's setting, it's an advertisement. It's setting up the next thing. And the reason- What am I, better than a teaser? I love a teaser.

Sure, but the reason that I wanted to add this category is because it's actually, it's really hard to end a movie. I was gonna say- It just, like, almost no movie actually brings it home and is like, this is how it ends and we got it. And you walk out and you're like, holy shit. And that sets up the next movie. And it home and it's like this is how it ends and we got it and you walk out and you're like holy shit and that sets up the next movie and it has value to you and to the many other teenagers literal and spiritual that you saw this movie with but it's not an ending teenagers

are the future man uh she just she just welcome to the big picture wesley uh i'll replace once upon a time in hollywood with Spider-Man Far From Home. You don't have to do that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yes. Yeah, he does. No, it's fair. This is a discussion.

I kind of like, I like it. Y'all are telling on each other. That's what we do on this podcast. I feel like you should leave it because, again, like somebody's going to have to be snubbed. What would you say out of the first four that I named? How do you feel strongly about it? It's Irishman, Portrait, Parasite, Midsommar. I don't like Midsommar.

And I really don't like that. But well, you know, it's... I just love it when Wesley's here. This is a whole podcast talking about that movie because I think the world of Ari Aster, this movie does not work for me for a lot of logistical reasons. There's a lot of things about it

I don't believe and I can't I can't suspend enough disbelief. So I don't agree with you about that but I actually don't think that that

negates the power of the ending. It doesn't I don't I mean I hate I mean I'm not going to say I don't. I mean, I hate the I mean, I'm not going to say I don't I hate saying things this way because I do believe in earning things. I don't.

I should feel I should feel something stronger than what I felt when you get to the end. Let me ask you this. Have you ever been sewn inside of a bear skin and lit on fire in a giant triangle? That's not fair. That's an unfair question. Okay. So you haven't, is what you're saying. You don't know my life. Look, this award show is about diversity, okay?

And if we can't be diverse enough to recognize bear skin, fire, death. I'm not falling for this. I am not taking the bait. I just, it, I mean, there's a way to just have that as an ending, be a great ending because it's the ending. Or there's a way for it to be part of a narrative that has to end and that's your ending. And in that case, it doesn't work for me. But as a crazy thing that happens at the end of a movie, sure. I love a freak out.

I love a freak out ending. I should feel freaked out and I don't. I didn't freak out. I love a freak out ending. But I should feel freaked out and I don't. I didn't feel it. I do feel like Midsommar wins the best meme awards or like the best meme inspiration. More than Uncut Gems? The number of Halloween costumes alone that I saw, that was phenomenal. I saw, I mean, I saw, I mean, I don't, this is a totally, this should be a category. Yeah.

Because Us is the most hollow us and joker okay the two halloween costumes that i saw wow some big contenders this year yeah okay us and joker so we have to figure out memes for the 2021 oscars and also best halloween costumes i guess that also going to be a category of the oscars okay of the of these nominees uh i would say that the end of i mean people are going to like this is when people stop listening. Because the Irishman. It's pretty great. The Irishman.

But they're going to like, it ends 25 times. No, no. I didn't even get to the ending. I'm extremely torn because it was the ending of The Irishman where I was like, oh, wow, this is a masterpiece. You really do have to. You got to get there. Obviously, there are lots of parts of it that are a master, that is masterpiece, but it ties it all together. It's, it not only sticks the landing, but the landing justifies everything that came

before. I have not stopped thinking about the ending of Portrait of a Lady on Fire since I watched it. I just was so moved by it. So, and it is also, it is of the narrative, but it's also its own moment in such an amazing way. I don't want to spoil that because that has not been released wide to the world yet. It hasn't? No.

It's not. It opens fittingly on Valentine's Day. Ladies. Yeah. My lady, my lady loving lady friends. I thought you were going to say start your engines. Well, also start your engines. Well, that too.

Start your engines. Incredible ending on that film. We'll talk a little bit more about it when it comes out. But the Irishman. If you go with the Irishman, then I can. I was going to go Parasite

based on the conversation we had. Yeah, no, that's a really good ending also. Can you, all right, talk to me about the ending of Parasite. A movie I adore

and I have had more conversations about how I don't know what a better ending would be for that movie. Right. But I've also enjoyed talking to people about the sort of... It's either an anticlimax or a denouement. It's one of those two things.

I thought of it as an ellipsis and not a period in the same way that 25th Hour has an ellipsis and not a period. the same way that 25th Hour has an ellipsis and not a period. It is a speculative dream of what could be, which is a kind of ending that I like. I mean, he solves it for you.

I mean, he doesn't leave you hanging. But I feel like I don't, I don't, but again, like, it's just that the shift in tone is such a shift

from what you would watch. It's such a coda. I don't know. It's not that it's not a good ending. It's just so it's so different from the movie you watched. But I've seen the movie

three times now and I feel every time I watch it it feels more and more of a piece with the movie itself. So I'm not here to break a tie.

If we all the three of us pick three different endings, I think we all can go home. I think foolishly the answer is Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which is weird, but that probably was the right choice. If they were here, I'd give it my vote. Yeah, that was a big fuck up on my part. Yeah.

I apologize to the Academy and to all the listeners of this show. Okay. Let's just go to best trailer. Do you guys remember any of these trailers? No. You cut... Well, there was 10 on the list but you got triple frontier which is very rude what's the triple frontier i remember we all like stood around watching it it was it also

stood around what uh computers okay um but it was also of a moment it was like there was the ben affleck back tattoo and then there and we had spent a lot of time as a society and a group of people interested in Ben Affleck investing in that. And then the trailer came out pretty soon thereafter. And the reason I nominated for casting, by the way, it's just like what we're doing with Ben Affleck right now in this moment is really interesting to me as a scholar of Ben Affleck. And yeah, there was a lot of excitement. It's also the best parts of the movie in the trailer. So to me, the high point of Triple Frontier period is early in the film,

we see Oscar Isaac flying in a helicopter set to Metallica's Room, the Bilt Holes. And I was like, oh, it's this kind of movie. Now it doesn't really always pay off on that promise. I wish it did pay off on that promise because then it would have been one of my favorite movies of the year. But that is

like a trailer moment that isn't even in the trailer. Yeah. The weird thing about that movie is that a reason to give it a casting prize is the whole movie is casting. Once you get those three

people, and nobody even knew that they wanted to watch that. You know what I mean? But it's, once it happens, you're just kind of like, I also feel like they're like mission accomplished. Yeah. Yeah.

Just turn the camera on. There's a kind of like, whatever. Just, just let me, let me just, you know, just, I don't know. Anyway. Literally that. Charlie Hunnam is literally doing that in the movie. It was, they knew. It's costume design also. They knew where I live. Yeah. They knew where I don't know. Anyway. Literally that. Charlie Hunnam is literally doing that in the movie. It was, they knew. It's costume design also.

They knew where I live. Yeah. They knew where I live. There we go. But, but I'm not, but I'm not that. They couldn't find the doorbell. I'm not that easy.

Yeah. I, you can't, you can't work this zipper. Can you? We were talking about best trailer and now we're talking about decloving Wesley. Triple Frontier was snub talking about Triple Frontier is not. Declothing Wesley.

Triple Frontier was snubbed. Triple Frontier was snubbed. So if you can go back and watch these, I encourage you to. You guys may disagree with these. These are the trailers that hit me, even whether you like the films or not. Last Black Man in San Francisco, I thought very artful. Joker. Hit like a bomb.

Uncut Gems. Very, very effective for especially serving its audience i don't remember that one godzilla king of the monsters do you remember this trailer oh yeah this is a very good trailer for a very bad movie yes yes and didn't make me want to see it but it made it intrigued me yes it's i i would encourage you to just watch it three times rather than watching the movie and the lighthouse you love the lighthouse so much i do love the lighthouse so much for you i need to do you guys know the uh one heat minute podcast you know there's sort of one minute of the movie heat over time i believe i'm getting the name of that show correct it's not chris and bill's podcast it's not chris and bill's podcast it's a podcast

that examines every single minute of the movie heat i will be starting one of those for the lighthouse okay i examine every minute of the lighthouse by myself. I knew you liked it. Alone in a lighthouse. I knew you liked it, but damn. Well, it's very good, but it's also very difficult to ride for publicly. And so like if I bring it up with Amanda, she's like, well, what you are is a Reddit nerd, bro.

And you hate this movie. No, I believe what I said was A24 merch, bro. Let's get the terms right. 601. Wait, but just to be clear, you're, again, this is not quite an Ari Aster thing because my problems with the lighthouse are different from my problems with Midsommar.

But I do enjoy listening to the lighthouse people talk about how much they love the lighthouse because I think that Robert Eggers is very talented. Very talented. I love The Witch, speaking of endings, until the end. Not a great ending in that movie. But there's something, there's an indulgence to this that I... He's fussy.

He's very fussy. He's very particular about showing his work. Yeah, and you? It is just so the definition of a not-for-me movie. I don't like fussiness or this kind of fussiness, and I do get a little frustrated.

This is filmmaking, in a lot of ways, that anticipates people talking about it, and I could feel it in the putting together of the film itself. See, my impression of talking to Robert Eggers is that he's not that kind of person. Now, Ari might be that kind of person.

Ari might be the kind of person who has a wider perception of the film world and how they'll react to the choices he makes. Like, he draws you in. Literally living in a weird lighthouse, writing down Melville-esque dialogue from the 18th century and, like, reading about sea captains and mermaids. Like, he's a fucking weird guy. You guys, if you can't see Amanda's face, it's doing a lot of Oscar-worthy things. Yeah, I don't mean that it anticipates, like,

reply guys and the online discourse as much as... You're very aware of his process. We've talked about this already. You know that I just can't stand anything where the work is showing and where the people are infatuated with the work as opposed to the result.

I'm only there to watch the film and does it work or does it not? And for me, like I said, it was not for me. Not even the trailer. But when you say that it's not for you, doesn't that just mean it didn't work? Like, I mean, for me, I don't know don't know i just i it's a complicated question kind of at the center of this podcast it is like i am aware that i am so particular also and like you know that you know it's that you like you're open to everything in this move there's a version of this movie that

might have worked yeah well here's the thing it's like not everything is excellent like not everything rises to a level i'm like oh this is even though it's not my interest set or it's not my type of movie or i don't normally seek out these sorts of things it's like so amazing that i responded to it but that doesn't mean there still is a level where it's good it's just not something i'm really interested in i'm willing to give people that because i have such high standards generally the trailer us, the high point of that trailer to me, I mean, not nominated, but I got five on it. And the way it uses that song. That was very good.

And it showed up, I believe, I first saw it, I think, during Thanksgiving or Christmas, the Christmas NBA games. That sounds right. And that was the most exciting thing because you had no idea what that movie was. And you could, I mean, at least for me, I could see Lupita Nyong'o. And just its use of that song

and the way it had been like re-engineered for this trailer, I thought that was an extremely effective use of of a of a trailer to like make you want to leave thank or christmas dinner to like go to the movies immediately i think if us was released in october it'd be an oscar movie i don't want to think about things that way i really like things occurring in their natural environment and if the Academy doesn't notice, that's on them. But it's a good question. But Get Out came out

in February too. But I think that's what was held against it, in fact, is that people were like, this isn't as good as Get Out and it was a March movie. I feel like every single person who has watched us a second or third time comes... Not sure. I don't think I feel the way you're going to say I feel.

Oh, you feel like it works less well? Didn't work as well for me. Too much loose threading. There's a lot of things that aren't clear. It's great filmmaking. It feels like the filmmaking just gets stronger the second and third time. Yeah, it feels to me like a slightly unfinished second feature,

which a lot of great artists' second features feel that way because they have a lot of ideas, but they're not, they've not fully coagulated. I think we just were in the middle of talking about one of them. Hello? It's dark. Best trailer.

I don't know what to make. You want to, you want to have a write-in ballot? No, no, I, no, no,

it should not work that way. We've got five nominees you're such i like how what an enforcer you are uh i'm gonna go with the joker i'm gonna go with the joker trailer i was this is a very good trailer it's a very good trailer it was a little social networking it didn't matter yeah but i thought that worked i mean i thought it was appropriate it sold the hell out of the movie it It worked. It worked. Sure, but it's not visionary, just like the rest of the movie. I'm going with Uncut Gems. I agree. I don't like the movie, but the trailer, it was one of those things where I objected, I objected, I objected. Then I saw the trailer and was like, well, I still object, but that's

a good trailer. It is a good trailer. I think I have to give it to Joker. As much as I like the Uncut Gems trailer. And as funny as it would be to give Godzilla King of the Monsters any kind of award. In a way, the winner should be Godzilla King of the Monsters because you're doing the most with the least and you're excited. Truly. Yeah. Okay.

The It's Time Oscar. Now, this is a once a year non-nominee. We just give, this is like the Irving non-nominee. We just give, this is like the Irving Thalberg Award. We just give this Oscar out. It's Amanda's idea and I thought she had a great choice

for who should receive it. So the theory behind this idea is that so often the acting categories are dominated by people who are beloved and have not yet won an Oscar.

And they so often win their Oscar, especially the actors, for performances that are not the great performance. So let's get rid of that and we'll just give the Oscar to someone. I think it should be, the person has to be in a movie in the calendar year. I think it actually would be best

if they were in more than one movie. Okay. And that our winner here is in more than one film. So I mean this with all the love and respect in the world. And also with respect for her performance in a movie that I really enjoyed. I think this is Laura Dern's award. I think that she is very good in Marriage Story. And it obviously is a showy, supporting performance.

That she's going to win an actual academy award for yes right but that is kind of dead in that category because there's so much fait accompli about that i don't even i mean i have a lot of controversial feelings about her winning even don't think it's deserved she's i mean look when she gives that speech to scarlett johansson toward i mean she's so good in the movie but the thing that pushes her over the top is the thing that ray liotta and alan alda and julie hagerty and merit weaver don't have which is the speech in the office toward the end and she laura dern is as good as everybody else in that movie in an organic way.

There's something about that speech that pushes her over the top in a way. Not her acting. But there's something about, I don't know how to, I've been really bad about explaining what my minor misgiving about her winning this Oscar for this performance is about. I think- Because it's the speech. Otherwise, I mean, Ray Liotta should be nominated. Julie Haggerty should be nominated.

Alan Alda, he's so good in this movie. But the thing that gets Laura Dern nominated is that speech. It's really, they're giving an Oscar to the screenplay, but they want to give the screenplay Oscar to someone else. So they're just giving it to Laura Dern because she gets the flashiest part of it. They're also giving her- And she's also, they want to give her an Oscar. Yes, of course.

They want to give her an Oscar. And that's the reason that she's in this category. That's it. That's at the heart of it is they admire the performance. It's obviously a brilliantly written movie. She's so good. She gets loaded up with steroids in the movie in the way that some of the other supporting characters don't.

That's exactly right. He juices loaded up with steroids in the movie in the way that some of the other supporting characters don't. That's exactly right. He juices her. He juiced her up. She gets a little cantico. But like, is this a significantly better performance than Rambling Rose? Like, you know, just to pull... Oh my God, the David Lynch.

I mean, I'm sorry. All of the David Lynch movies. Inland Empire. Right. Wild at Heart. She should get like six Oscars for that. Yes, I agree. Give her an Oscar for Jurassic Park. You know what I mean? Like, right. Wild at Heart. She should get like six Oscars for that. Yes, I agree. Give her an Oscar for Jurassic Park.

You know what I mean? Like, Laura Dern's been... Just calm down. Just come on. It's time for Laura Dern to get an Oscar. And that means that that would theoretically open up a new contender in Best Supporting Actress. Also, Laura Dern was in Little Women this year.

Was she in a third film? I mean, Big Little Lies. Of course in a third film? Big Little Lies. Of course, she was wonderful in Big Little Lies. Truly a totemic year. I'm with you. I feel like she should get an Oscar. Let's give her an Oscar.

It would have been nice for her to win for some of her more adventurous work, but I support this too. This concludes the new categories. Congratulations, Laura Dern. You have won two Oscars. Theoretically, we're not getting ahead of ourselves. So let's go to the real categories that currently exist

that we're going to replace the nominees for. So this is all new nominees in the six key categories. Okay. We're going to start with the acting categories. We're going to start with best supporting actor. Okay. Song Kang-ho, Parasite. Willem Dafoe, The Lighthouse, What Up?

Sterling K. Brown, Waves. Shia LaBeouf, Honey Boy. Rob Morgan, Just Mercy. Rob Morgan. Yeah. I love Rob Morgan. It's so, what a performance. Totally undiscussed. Completely undiscussed. I love Song Kang-ho, but Rob Morgan. It's Rob Morgan. It's so, what a performance. I, totally undiscussed.

Completely undiscussed. I love Funk and Ho, but Rob Morgan. Wow. I have thought about those scenes in that movie so many times since I saw it. Rob Morgan is one of those actors who shows up and something, you don't even know that the character is even important to the movie

totally yes he's like then in another scene and by the second scene you're kind of like who is this rob morgan for anybody who doesn't know and saw mudbound he played mary j blige's husband and again i'm a big i'm a big asker of the question, how can you watch a movie, see a bunch of performances, pick one and have it not be the great one? It's what I call the Helena Bonham Carter and Howard's End question. How you can nominate all those people from that movie

and not the person who actually gave the best performance. I'm sorry. This seems like a crime. It's an amazing point. It almost happened with Just Mercy. And I think Jamie Foxx is quite good in Just Mercy. Oh, he's so good. They're both great.

They're both really good. And it really is the scenes of them together that are just... Jamie Foxx and Rob Morgan are both great in this movie. Not everything about that movie works really at all. But everything that happens on death row, that group of prisoners... Crazy way to put it, but it's true. But it's incredibly effective and great actors all are.

O'Shea Jackson also very good in this movie. But Rob Morgan. Are we unanimous on Rob Morgan? Yeah, Rob Morgan. I think the Song Kang-ho group is going to be quite frustrated by this choice. He's a little Laura Derny to me in this sense. This is a guy who has given some of the movie's best performances. He's good in this sense. Like, this is a guy who has given some of the movie's best performances. He's good in this movie.

But I mean, this is not to say that not being as good as you previously were under the circumstances of another movie should disqualify you from winning for the thing you were currently nominated for. But, this is,

I mean, what is he operating at in this movie? 40%? The movie kind of floats away from him a little bit it kind of moves away from being his movie you know it has a moment like 30% of it in the middle it starts to feel like his movie as he takes on the driver role and then it kind of moves away from him at times

and so it doesn't really feel like he is the same way that Brad Pitt is sort of the centrifugal force in a lot of ways in Once Upon a Time I'm sorry he is the star of that movie and F everybody for saying otherwise this That's a rigged category. Well, we haven't talked about category fraud too much, but that's also, we're trying to adjust this. Anyway, I love both those guys. I'm going with Rob Morgan. Rob Morgan. I agree with this.

We have it. Best supporting actress, Jennifer Lopez, Hustlers, Xiaoxu Shen, The Farewell, Chou Yaozhang, Parasite, Caitlin Deaver, Booksmart, Taylor Russell, Waves. We mentioned Taylor Russell earlier. It's ridiculous that I'm allowed to give this award to Jennifer Lopez in this category because the Oscars didn't want to. I mean, you don't have to make her the winner. She's nominated. That was the whole thrill of her being in the supporting actress category at the actual Oscars.

She wasn't supposed to win. I know. She just had to be there. I mean, there's a version of this where she could have won, but it wasn't necessary, right? I agree. It wasn't necessary. She didn't even have to fucking win. It's very strange upon reflection.

For Richard Jewell to get one nomination for her to be Kathy Bates. It's very strange upon reflection for Richard Jewell to get one nomination for her to be Kathy Bates. She's great, but she's not doing anything right. It's perfectly fine. It's Kathy Bates doing Kathy Bates stuff.

Again, Helena Bonham Carter, What Were They Thinking Award. If you're watching that movie, despite the controversy, Olivia Wilde is like, going for it. She goes for it. Yeah, she does.

Setting aside the ethics. That's a complicated conversation because her performance is good but she also kind of seems like she's in a different kind of movie. She's got it turned up to 11. But I want to be in the movie she's in. I want a whole movie about a woman who does her job like

that. Setting aside the ethics, I know it's a problem. But Olivia Wilde. Fuck FBI agents? That's the movie you want to see? I want to see her. she's really good and so is um the woman who uh nina arianda who plays uh sam yes her secretary yes she's also wonderful i love that is my style of supporting performance right you you are not important to the to the to the movie but anytime you could it's rob morgan too like anytime you're anytime you know ariana is in anything yeah she puts a little sauce on it just like rob morgan i'm not always sure it's her and i'm like i think that might be who i think it

is anyway um of these of these five people oh another person that i another parasite person um is uh lee jong-un who plays the original maid oh she's very good she's very good basically playing two parts too right sort of right i mean second half it's just it's just that she if she were nominated for anything would be my winner like can't overstate how funny it is when he first arrives at the house as the new tutor and the mother is sleeping on the table. She just claps. They're both wonderful.

They're both great. Are you going J-Lo? I'm not voting for J-Lo. Who are you voting for? I'm voting for the mother in Parasite. Okay. I love her. I think she is. I nominated her for this. I'm going for the mother in Parasite. Okay. I love her. I think she is. Yeah.

I nominated her for this. Maybe. I'm going for the mother in Parasite. That's a hard part to do. And it's so easy to overlook how good she is. Yeah. Because she's essentially playing like a nothing part. But there's so much comedy involved in her performance. Yes.

Like playing a dumb. She's not even dumb. She's just not as smart as everybody else and she's kind of blithely unselfaware right i just it's a hard performance to give yeah and she's so good at doing a thing that's easy to overlook because she doesn't have a moment like her whole thing is just being blithe and da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. When she's shopping at the door that part of the party. I know, she's really great. I like her too. I would vote for her if we could get a consensus.

Okay, I'll do it. I can do that. Am I swaying the jury? No, that's a compelling case. She's wonderful. I think J-Lo just needed a nomination, frankly. That's all she needed. J-Lo, you got it.

Also, you just won the Super Bowl with all due respect to Mr. Mahomes. That's all she needed. J-Lo, you got it. Also, you just won the Super Bowl. With all due respect to Mr. Mahomes. Imagine what that would have done for her candidacy for the final day of voting to have been happening right on the eve of that performance. Yeah. I did wonder whether it would have backfired. They're all, I mean, not to be this person,

but I think they kind of hate her. I think there's a little bit of you have too much. Yeah. Like, why do you need more? I think that there is, person but i think they kind of hate her i think there's a little bit of you have too much yeah like why do you need more i i i think that there is there's a certain kind of famous woman because this never happens to men there's a version of these nominations that if leo dicaprio was a woman he wouldn't have gotten nominated he's got too much he's too him like who is a person who has this problem I mean Julia Roberts suffers from this for years

you know the sort of like the Matthew McConaughey's of the world fell victim to it or was like you made too many bad movies so it's held against you

but he's not been what has he not been nominated for that he should have been I don't know off the top of my head we can get to that later but I do feel like

the thing that befell J.Lo is a thing that befalls... I mean, how many nominations should Gwyneth Paltrow have had after Shakespeare in Love? That is a very good example. I mean, more than she got. Yeah.

I feel like Nicole Kidman is frequently a victim of this. But I also feel like she's frequently recognized for subpar movies, even if her work is good. Julianne Moore is another person. Same thing, though.

An actress who is always good, who makes a lot of movies that are utterly mediocre. But when she is good in them, it means when she does a map to the stars, or even a Gloria Bell, they're just like, God. That movie was completely overlooked this year, interestingly. So, I mean, Charlize, you get one slot in this year that of all the options, Charlize Theron

is the person who Super famous previous winner. Right. Yes. Okay. So, we're decided on

Cho Ya-Jong for Parasite. Great. Best actor. This was interesting. Adam Sandler on Cut Gems. The crowd favorite. Paul Walter Houser

Richard Jewell Brad Pitt Ad Astra Matthew McConaughey The Beach Bum Andre Holland High Flying Bird Now Wesley furrowed

his brow aggressively when I said Brad Pitt's name I don't like that movie Okay You don't have to whisper The microphone's gonna pick it up no matter how loud you say it I don't like that movie. Okay. You don't have to whisper. The microphone's going to pick it up no matter how loud you say it. I don't like that movie. Okay.

Fair enough. And he can't save it from itself. Like, why is it set in outer space and not a therapist's office? I mean, it is set in a therapist's office. That's the thing. Outer space of the mind. Yeah. I mean, it is.

He's just doing his own little diary entries letting all i kept thinking about was all the death and all the money like he's definitely going to prison right like he's going to jail sure like but he can't because he breaks space code or whatever it is he how many people wind up dead because of him that i know he saved did he save mankind tbd what did he what did he really do was he trying to was that part of the thing i thought he was just trying to find his dad trying to resolve some daddy issues this is about brad pitt and not about not about the movie it's not about the movie i loved i love james gray but like like i don't like $500 an hour. Not, not $17.99 a ticket. I will say though,

I don't totally. I mean, sure. 500 seems, I guess that's the going. If it were that easy, there would not be movie podcasts. Let me tell you.

I am surprised though. I did find that there were moments of this pitt performance that were like astonishing to me for all the movie star brad pittness of it which i think you and i often agree on like this scene when he is in the podcast studio or whatever it is and is like and is recording the message for his dad because they can't fax it again i don I don't really know why, but he's reading the thing to his dad and just having, talk about therapy. Brad Pitt's having his therapy on the screen. Someone filmed it and let me watch it. That is worth, I will pay $18 for that. Okay. I see where you're going.

Okay. Well, I am very pro Brad Pitt as everyone in the world knows. Who else do we have? Matthew McConaughey, Andre Holland. Sandler and Walter, Paul Walter Hauser. I'm going to make a case for Paul Walter Hauser. Okay. Perhaps my favorite guest

in the history of the show. Just this delightful person to talk to. Tremendous. Part of my pitch was because I heard that. He's very, very, very

smart, chill, weird. When he started doing like this the extended a few good men recitation like we had done the the normal code red stuff and then he just kept going with an officer on deck so he um you know which by the way i could do too so that's my guy uh i really like him in this movie i think he had a very difficult job. I'm all, I mean, things that I admire in certain performances are really about how much more you did than you needed to do

and how much he figured out a way to make this person not the idiot that the culture made him out to be. And there's something about how it every and some of this is is is eastwood in the writing i guess too but there's so many moments where like a different actor would have made made a choice there's something like when he comes home to kathy bates and he's happy to see her and it's a very like that relationship seems as old as it actually is and a lot of that is just his comfort around her and there's a thoughtfulness behind that performance I don't know it's just I love it

I love it a lot and it's very very easy to just overlook. I agree with this. And I was also just going to say, the Olivia Wilde character is an example of where like this script can go wrong. And I think that performance definitely is lending Olivia Wilde's choices shape how we perceive everything that's going on in that performance. And you almost feel that she is judging or, you know, has made a decision about that character even though she was very clear that she had not made that decision. It's a good moral point because, yeah.

This script is open to interpretation in a lot of ways, but specifically in performance and he has the hardest role and he nails it. And with any other actor, I think it could be a very different type of Clint Eastwood movie.

Well, Clint Eastwood is already starting out, like, quote, unquote, on the side, unquote, of Richard Jewell. I mean, the whole point of the movie is to be a corrective, and so I guess you have to have a person give a performance and not a caricature. Yeah, it just doesn't feel falsely valorous. It doesn't make him seem smarter than he is either. No, no, no.

He doesn't play him for a total buffoon, but it also doesn't say, well, actually, he was a genius. Like, it indicates that he's a very flawed guy. Like a normal person. Kind of a goofball.

With some weird personality traits. Didn't really know what to do in this situation the same way no one would know what to do. I think the movie, I've said it a couple of times,

I think, on this show, is just really cooking when it's him and Rockwell and Kathy Bates in a room together and you're just like, these three people are amazingly comfortable with each other. They know exactly

who these characters are. They know how to talk to each other. It just, it feels real is, is bad criticism, but it feels right when you're watching them together. And he, you know, Kathy Bates and Sam Rockwell are like two of the 75 most accomplished actors alive right now. And this guy's crazy like four movies parenthetically that sam rockwell had a better two he's two he's an oscar denomination and gave two performances that are better than both those this year or last year anyway i like him in this i like him in whatever mode he is in richard jewell and in jojo rabbit yeah Yeah. If he's going to play a racist, bigot, Nazi, whatever. Despite all of the hosannas

for Paul Walter Hauser, my choice is Adam Sandler. Okay. It's fair. It's really not close. I'm just going with that. Now I can be outvoted. No, I'm not going to...

You'll go with Sandler? Oh, oh. Somebody has to win. Somebody has to win. Yes, it's the Oscars. You all have to vote. Well, usually everyone loses. It's not the Iowa caucus, okay?

So we are going to pick a winner. Well, at least we'll at least know who the winner is. I think I might go Paul Walter Hauser. Oh my goodness. Are you both going Paul Walter Hauser? Yeah. Well, good for him. Yeah.

I like Adam Sandler in that movie though, I will say. He's very good. But you know what? You know what I would say about Adam Sandler in Uncut Gems? I mean, this is not a a reason this is not a problem part of the achievement is that like he finds a way to do the most with with one note um i guess paul walter i mean there's just so much shading going on with the paul walter hauser performance that the that the uncut gems character can't even have because that's just not the nature of not a lot of subtext about

howard ratner well there's probably lots of subtext but but the but the actor can't have access to any of it it's up to us to understand it's a really hard performance it's the perfect person to give that performance because because like a different actor but want to do all this stuff that the part can't the girding of the part isn't strong enough for right by necessity anyway i'm going with i'm going with paul drouser congratulations to paul sorry i feel great about that best actress lupita and yango adele hanel portrait of a lady on Fire Florence Pugh Midsommar Charlize Theron Longshot Elizabeth Moss Her Smell No Gloria Bell No Gloria Bell

Yeah Fine choice We have done to Julianne Moore what the Oscars routinely does to her which is say oh you're pretty good

in this movie no one saw see you later Lupita Nyong'o is the only option I really like this Charlize Theron performance in Longshot

It's very funny She's a movie star just let her be a movie star Seth Rogen I think I've talked about this either with you guys or with Bill there's a moment at the end of that movie I don't know if you felt this way

where like they're sitting on the sofa they're wrapping things up and Seth Rogen is looking at her like I have never seen anybody look at anybody in a movie it is just like i love this woman i don't know what i'm doing on the sofa but and she's speaking to a there's like a documentary style yeah film crew ending and he is looking at her when she speaks and i just have never seen anybody look at somebody like that

with such ardor. And she, I get it. Wesley, that's not acting. That's what I was going to say. It's not even acting. Seth Rogen hanging out with Charlize. Right. I'm just saying.

She's brought something out of her that's really true that I have never. She brought, that was the best Seth Rogen I've ever seen. And I think it's entirely, she's entirely responsible for that. There's something about her in this movie that just brings out all this great stuff in other people. And there, that is, I know it doesn't sound like that. I'm talking about a good performance, but I, but I am, she changes her being this way in this movie changes the properties of everybody else around her. But is that performance or is that presence?

That counts for something. I love myself a good movie star performance. I do too. Though, you know, I rewatched this movie, I Believe on a Plane, and I love the scene when she's on Molly and is negotiating the thing. And that's like her, they give her a great moment to do something. But otherwise, she is pretty restrained. She is, I mean, she has to be like the repressed character. Amanda, we don't even have to talk about this because Lupita Nyong'o is the only winner.

I think I agree with that. You're not going to make your case for Adele Hino? Well, again, she is nominated in this category and also in the category of people that I would like to either be or run away with. I'm still working through that. I know it's pretty complex. Love to talk about, you know. America, when you get to see this movie, call Amanda Dobbins up. I think what she says is Adele Hanel, call me up. That's really the message that's being sent here. Please. I hear that. It's really powerful and I'm kind of sorting through all of my reactions to it bad trailer this is a bad

trailer it's a bad European they don't know how to sell these movies it looks so bad in the trailer don't trust the trailer on this just go to the movie yes I'm going with Lupita as well so it's the answer I just it's very very weird to me that she's not nominated very weird well practically because she is the most decorated of of every person who gave a performance last year she she won the most things i got no personal beef with cynthia rivo but that's just it's just not even close can i can i can can i go to the grill please go uh okay i'm not really gonna go to the grill i i just i just don't like this performance i don't like the movie but it's a thing that the academy is familiar with this is why i feel like the way

i this is why i feel the way i feel about the best picture nominees because there are choices being made and even to an individual voter to not have chose chosen them the story that can be told based on what i see when i look at these nominations is people making a body making a choice and it's like if if you have a performance that is like a like a like one of the great performances i would say period and a person has invented it from whole cloth just made up two characters and come up with a strategy about how to play them and who they are in relation to each other. And the like three layers deep of just stuff that Lupita Nyong'o is carrying

around with her when she plays both these women, you're going to know that exists. Also movie made what? $200 million? Like enough people in the, like they saw that movie and i mean harriet may harriet made money but like you're gonna not it's not even an either or thing i'm not saying that like you i'm just saying that of the non-white people that you

nominated and i will include antonio banderas in this because that's how we roll in America. Non-English speaker. The person you pick is just playing a thing that you're extremely familiar with. Now, granted, it's Harriet Tubman. She is the most, she is like one of the two most famous examples of a thing that you're familiar with.

But at the end of the day, the way the movie functions, we're just talking about an enslaved person, right? Yeah. And we talked about it the day the nominations were announced're just talking about an enslaved person right yeah and we talked about it the day the nominations were announced we were like

they nominated one actor of color and it's for playing a slave this is insane I can't be that's not Cynthia Erivo's fault she's a great actor but she was more interesting

in Widows she's way more interesting on The Outsider if you're watching The Outsider right now you can see it the actor's winner of two years ago

come on she'll get her EGOT. Can't believe you just completely dismissed Widows and just never talked about it. So many people don't like it, though. I know a lot of people who don't like it. Just truly do not like it. Anyway, Lupita Nyong'o, Lupita Nyong'o, Lupita Nyong'o.

Great. Sold. Best Director. Greta Gerwig, Little Women. Oh, shit. Trey Edward Schultz, Waves. Oh, this got real. Ari Aster, Midsommar.

Pedro Amorovar, Pain and Glory. Julia Riker and Stephen Bogner, American Factory. Can you imagine if these were the actual Academy Award nominees for Best Director? That would be amazing. That would be amazing. The only one here that feels completely out of line is Ari Aster for Midsommar. I just don't think that they would ever nominate a movie like that

in this kind of a category. The other four, like... Jordan Peele, I mean... That's true. I mean... That's true. But it only happened once. It'll never happen again.

Get Out was a lot more pop. Right. I mean, I'm not saying he'll never be nominated again. I just think that, like, that style of that thing, I feel like for a lot of voters, I feel like there's a cat

out of the bag with him. And they feel like, well, didn't he already do that? Like us and Get Out are in any way comparable to each other? Just whatever. There's a lot of just bad thinking. Anyway. He could have been on this list. I mean, we could have said Jordan Peele, Us. That was never talked about

at one moment during this Oscar season. Oh, no. No. I mean, the screenplay. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's just, it's crazy to me, the things that we take for granted.

It's nuts to me. Ang Lee made, whatever. Just don't even get me started. What were you going to say? Ang Lee made The Ice Storm? No. Ang Lee made Eat, Drink, Man, Woman? He made one of your favorite action sequences.

Yeah, that scene kicks ass That movie is pretty incoherent but Anyway I'm just saying We're in weird times Of these five people

I am gonna go with Greta Gerwig Obviously I am as well I love Trey Atwood Schultz I love Waves Waves.

Waves really died, man. Like, it really proved chance wrong. It just died on the vine. Didn't make any money. Got no love at the awards. Didn't get Gotham love. Didn't get Cindy Spirit Awards love. I can't believe how divisive that movie is.

I'm kind of shocked. Well, I felt that it was going to be divisive, but not in the way that it turned out to be. But more divisive than like The Lighthouse? Like there are so many weird movies that did amazing business this year. I think that we are so messed up about race that the idea of a person just expressing empathy, the idea of a white director expressing empathy

for black people and like identifying and inventing a life for them that doesn't compute with any of the things that we've been programmed to think a white person should find interesting about black people and i also think it's a huge risk to have that character do the thing that the character does i don't like it but you know what like it's not based on a true story he can do whatever the fuck he wants and he did it and it has to happen in order for the second half of the movie to work like oh we need to we don't know how to watch anything anymore we don't know how to watch shit and so we're only focused on what does it say this guy is? I'm out. I do think

a lot of the conversation around the film is driven by that. Why did this guy get to make this movie? It's outrageous. It's just outrageous. Anyway, that said, I'm going to go with Greta Gerwig. I love this movie and I have more complicated feelings about waves

so it's very easy for me to go to with Greta Gerwig. Should I even try to. He's heard it. Oh, no, no, no. I mean, about Greta Gerwig. Oh, about Greta Gerwig. I mean, I it's very hard for me to speak because at some point she taps into some primal thing of of the way that I think about the experience of being a woman, the experience of having thoughts and the experience of my relationship to,

to literature, my relationship specifically to little women and kind of what I want to see when I go to the movies. I often I'm, I'm surrounded by a lot of men in my life who I love very much. And they like a lot of movies and they talk about entire schools of filmmaking and things that just really spoke to them and their interests and their beliefs so specifically. And I have always been, well, not always been happy for them, but I, I, that's lovely. And I never really understood what that

felt like until i saw a greta gerwig movie of just being like holy shit that's i didn't know you could do that but also you were in my brain and that's a very specific endorsement i also think this movie is just like so smart and also has feelings and it is accomplished and it has ideas and um and is and she is so in control she creates a world that is a greta gerwig world while also still being a part of this tradition of filmmaking i she's very important to me i have nothing further to add the winner is greta gerwig i have nothing further to add either i i believe i mean i got a little that was like a that was like a like a courtroom drama closing argument yes and i got a little misty. Thank you.

Did you order the cold red? You're goddamn right, Greta did. Okay, best picture. Okay. 10 nominees. I actually didn't think about this at all, so I don't know what I'm advocating for. I mean, I may have gotten all this wrong.

And if I'm missing stuff, you let me know. I think that the movie world is vast. More than 800 films are released every year in America. We could have picked from a whole bunch of them these are the 10 i listed uncut gems waves american factory the souvenir the lighthouse book smart the farewell knives out pain and glory portrait of a lady on fire i will just say before i choose my winner that a movie I put on the list that isn't here, in addition to us, is The Nightingale. Jennifer Kent's grueling movie about the settling of Australia in the 19th century. And it's hard to watch. And it is honest about what it takes to take a country and make a country.

And another one of those movies where I just don't know how she did what she did or why she even chose to do it that way. Last time you were here, you advocated for this movie. I've since seen it. It's very punishing. Yeah. It's sort of the emotional It's very punishing. Yeah. It's sort of the like emotional inversion of Little Women. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, emotionally for sure. Yes. It's obviously brilliantly well made and has a deep point of view and also tons of subtext about what actually, what the cost of growth is essentially, what the cost of labor is for human labor. At times it feels like it's almost, I mean, it is rubbing your nose in it. Oh,

for sure. Purposefully. That is, yeah, 100%. So even in our imaginary Oscars, I'm trying to imagine getting our voting body to watch this film. Well, you didn't, actually, because there are three people in the voting body.

And Wesley, I think even in that podcast, you were like, it's not for me, Amanda. I'm not recommending. I mean, it's a hard movie to tell a person they should watch. I've watched it and think it's great. That's it. But let's go to the actual nominees okay yeah here we go i i mean uh uncut gems i like enough waves i love american factory i think is fantastic the souvenir i like i really like the souvenir i just want to like just say that one more time yeah um hard movie to do um

surprise i mean you've seen you've seen this movie before but there's something about the way she does it where you're just like is that what's happening here yeah um that's exactly right it's like a it's it's like a john hughes movie sucked of all the color or something. Well, that's not a great advertisement for it. It's only the pain side of the coming of age story. It's less than less than zero. Anyway,

The Lighthouse. We've said enough. Again, I think he's a very good director. I'm just going to move to Booksmart. The Farewell, that movie did not do it for me. Really?

I just, it just didn't do it for me. I think it's solid. It had a great, this is one of those things that I just was like, this is a really good idea. This is a great movie. But you know what? It's not a great movie because I heard the This American Life episode and I thought, I'm done. Yes. This is a great movie. But you know what? It's not a great movie because I heard the This American Life episode and I thought, I'm done. This is fantastic. Great story.

It did not need, it didn't need to be this. I'm glad for everybody involved that it was it, but it didn't work for me as a movie. Actually, this is kind of a late criticism of the movie, but I wish that the movie was more like the wedding sequence. I was like, where is this like antic, almost satirical portrait of this country and these traditions as a way, more like elegiac,

deeply sincere first half of the movie. I just felt like, I kind of like I had seen that version of a story before. I've thought a lot about this movie since I saw it. First of all, I did not listen to this American Life segment. And then I went to see the movie in a packed theater and I was crying like everybody else. It just it really I did have that emotional movie experience.

And I have thought a lot about what this movie has to say about family and how we conceive of a family and relate to it and what we do and don't do not owe both a family and ourselves and how that changes in in different cultures and it it did just it very neatly encapsulated a lot of those questions intentions that apply to all aspects of life um and i i find myself referencing back to it i don't know whether that is, that's more, if that's a movie experience or just like an interesting thing that it added to my life.

It doesn't matter. It worked for you. Yeah. What's better, the farewell or triple frontier? Oh, don't. Don't do that. Also had me thinking

a lot about family in a different way. Certainly. Hobbs and Shaw also about family. How you like to make a family with one of those men the question is which one quite a pod for your libido uh Knives Out I I liked it I just feel like it's like a turn to clever there's like there's one thing in there's

one no there's one beat too many then I'm confused i'm actually confused it does not clarify for me thing i need clarified i also found it mildly anticlimactic um i think by design in many ways i mean it's the kind of movie that gives away its twist in the first 20 minutes that wasn't my issue really but i do like that he really went for the like he didn't leave it up to us to be like well that's interesting that like how racist they i mean he understood what he he knew what he was doing like thematically this would be pretty high on my list for the winner i don't know if it's necessarily my choice but as far as like satisfaction coming out of a film when the sweet virginia needle drop hits at the

end of the movie and she's looking out over them on the balcony i was like that's a fucking movie like that's how you make a movie that was for me now i hear your criticism or whatever it says i i cracked up at that i mean it doesn't i i like it i like it i just i'm like there's 10 movies here i i'd like some of them more than i like this pain and glory fairly under discussed can i just say something real quick about him by the way i would ryan johnson yeah i is this the thing that he's gonna do because i like i like this i mean not that i don't like the other stuff but i'm just saying if this is a mode where he's that he's gonna be and i mean i assume he'll make something radically different but i i like him on earth i guess is maybe what i'm saying but look at all

of his other movies i think he's a genre island hopper. You know, if you look at Brick or Brothers Bloom or Looper, these are kind of variations on a theme told in different tones that are hugely influenced. You can kind of like pinpoint the other movies he's referencing, but not in a way that it's obnoxious. No. It actually just informs and excites you.

He's a good sampler. He's a good sampler. Well put. He's the DJ premiere of movie makers. Oh, boy oh boy but i agree i like his sense of humor and the cleverness it is extremely clever and maybe i just think that's cute but it is also like it's the classic they don't make movies like that anymore like when was the last time you went to a really like clever movie i tend to think about, well,

recently, cause I saw little women for the third time. So that is clever. Yeah. I, I don't know. I, I hear everything you're saying.

Okay. Um, pain and glory. My, one of my least favorite on one of our movies. Interesting. Uh, it is,

I, I, he is one of my favorite filmmakers. This is one of my least favorite of his movies. And I, I guess given what I just said about it, him being one of my favorites,. He's one of my least favorite of his movies. And I guess, given what I just said about it, him being one of my favorites,

it should be among them. It is the most him. It's not the most his kind of movie, but it's the most of him. No, but I think that it's sort of like, it's like him unplugged, and I feel like he's an electricity director,

not an acoustic director. That's a great way of putting it. And he and Ben Darius are two of the most thrilling people to watch do things at the middle of their powers. The idea that they've both just decided not to pay the electric bill on this one and to just go for something else, like a ballads. You're not a balladeer, sir. Just you're not. But I've been really enjoying other people's enjoyment of this movie. I got none of the pleasure from it that other people have.

I think it's one of those things where you go in expecting something from a certain kind of filmmaker. It's like going to a Michael Bay movie in a lot of ways. You're like, there are hallmarks in El Motivar's films. I rewatched Matador before interviewing Banderas and it's like, it is,

it's a completely different tone and certainly the performance that Banderas is giving. I don't, but I still like Pain and Glory a lot. I don't begrudge him the sort of, the wisdom and age that have gone into making this movie.

I mean, for him and Antonio Banderas, I'm happy that the Academy thought enough of the performance to, to recognize it. Um, it just, there are 10, again,

there are 10 movies here. I'm not, I'm not going with this. Like saying it's among my least favorite on one of our movies is really not saying much. Portrait of a Lady on Fire. I like it. I like it a lot. That wasn't the.

You guys have been passionate enough about that movie. Yeah. And no one's seen it, which is also frustrating because it has not been widely released. So we can't really talk about it. This is probably not an ideal top 10. I left off Us, which I would say is an oversight on my part. But I don't think Us was going to win anyway. I mean, what is our winner?

It would be radical for something like American Factory to win the very first Best Picture. I was going to, I mean, I put it on this, I really, really talk about movies that I can't stop thinking about. American Factory. It's a miracle of a movie. It's a big time achievement. Yeah. And also a movie that could only have been made by those two people because they had spent the previous 15 years entrenched in that world, making movies about that world,

thinking deeply and essentially working as teachers, professors about the American economy, globalization, the workforce, what happens when a corporation makes bad decisions and doesn't think about people, all of these complicated ideas, and also captures this really classical humanistic Verite style of filmmaking and does so in a very, very, very specific and strong way. I mean, like the just luck involved in all of the scenes that they got and the characters that they found within you know it could have been a setup of a chinese company buying an american factory and then and then you don't you don't have the people who they find and then of course that they know

what to do in bringing out those stories they they know who to film they know who to talk to this could have gone wrong or like it just could have been okay yes it could have been blah yeah it could have been just like oh okay there's some cultural differences and some people getting to know some other people and yeah but it's it's so much more profound than that and i also think the way that we think about cross-culturalization in this country is pretty it's not myopic it's the it's like the way we think about it is is the way that we have to givenization in this country is pretty, it's not myopic. It's like the way we think about it is the way that we have to given the way this country was founded. But the idea of America and China, you know?

Yeah. I don't know. We're decided. It's American Factory. I'm just delighted. Greta Gerwig and American Factory winning. I did not expect this to happen. Dear

Academy, put us in charge. This is so wonderful. Any lingering thoughts before the Academy Awards? You're so happy. It just never works out where all the things I put on the document actually win. Thank you. Wesley, can you come more often? Because the nice things happen. Dreams do come true.

Anything else? Adele Hanel, call me, I guess, is the only thing that can make this better. Call me by her name too, perhaps, starring Amanda and Adele Hanel. Wait, did you hear? Did I hear what? Andre Eichmann is doing a sequel. Yeah, he's writing it. Well, the book's out, I thought.

I mean, they're going to film it. Oh, dear. Yeah, it's going to happen. I heard that. I heard that. I think it will happen. Oh, boy. I mean, they're going to film it. Oh, dear. Yeah. It's going to happen. I heard that. I heard that. I think it will happen. Oh, boy. I mean, I'm not against it.

I'm not against it. Do you think we'll be back doing the, I don't know what the name of these awards should be. Big Picky is not going to work. The Pickys. That's pretty gross and weird. Yeah. Well, let's workshop it.

The Adele Hanels. Yeah, the Adele Hanels. Yeah, that's. Are you excited for the Academy Awards? Oh my God, that might be the hardest question of the day. Yes. I'm really neutral on this this year. There's no person I'm excited to see win.

Not even Brad Pitt? Oh, that's a good one. I am excited to see him. I mean, we're going to have that. Yeah. I mean, I'm excited to see win not even Brad Pitt oh that's a good one I am excited I mean we're gonna have that yeah I mean I'm excited to see Lord I mean I want all the people who are gonna win to win well Joaquin Phoenix again it's like he they're Lord Durning him yes they are um he should have won 10 years ago they didn't give it to him the dancing but yeah I mean there's some good things about the performance i just don't i don't care for it um in the way that i've cared for so many other of his performances but um anyway are you guys excited working through it in a kind of like i love a good sandwich sort of way so we're all like in a sort of similar but it's really hard to get excited about yeah

both because we just feel like we know what's going to happen. And I'm not that jazzed about what's going to happen with the exception of Brad Pitt. Yeah. I like 1917. It's a perfectly good movie. I do like it. I had a nice time watching it also. But again, I feel like it's winning.

Just feels like somebody is being sent a message. Yeah. And I don't like that. Wesley, you sent a profound message on this podcast. Thanks for doing this with us. Anytime. Please stay tuned to The Big Picture later this week. Amanda and I will be making our picks for the 91st Annual Academy Awards.

See you then. Thank you.