The Big Picture - 'Parasite' vs. '1917' : The Best Picture Showdown Is Here. Plus: It's Mailbag Time | The Oscars Show

Episode Date: January 21, 2020

After a busy weekend for guild awards ceremonies, we have a new front-runner, '1917,' which scored a big win at the Producers Guild Awards. But 'Parasite' nabbed a surprise victory for Best Cast at the Screen Actors Guild Awards, setting up an intriguing showdown. Sean and Amanda break down the new narrative for Best Picture as we head into the Oscars home stretch (0:57). Then, we're joined by Shea Serrano, who shares the best and most important things about the weekend's box office champ, 'Bad Boys for Life' (20:59). And finally, Sean and Amanda dig into the mailbag to answer all your questions about the past, present, and future of the Academy Awards (36:52). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Shea Serrano Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys? It's Liz Kelley, and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. This week, to celebrate the 100th episode of the Rewatchables podcast, Quentin Tarantino returns for the third and final movie in his three-part series with us. In the final episode, Bill Simmons and Sean Fennessy discuss with Quentin one of his favorite movies, the 1990 crime thriller King of New York. Make sure to check out this special episode and follow at The Rewatchables on Twitter for highlights of all 100 episodes. about the most ferociously fast Oscar season in recent memory. Later in the show, we'll be tackling your questions in a big old mailbag segment.

But first, Amanda, let's go directly to the big pictures. Big picture. This is a problem in the big picture. Do you know what I mean? Here we go, Amanda. It's time to read some tea leaves. A lot happened over the weekend. There's a lot to break down in the Oscar race.

Shall we begin with the SAG Awards? Let's. What did you make of the telecast of the SAG Awards? I had a great time. I will say, in full disclosure, I DVR'd them. Okay. Avoided Twitter. Actually, I didn't avoid Twitter and everything was spoiled for me, but that's okay.

And then fast forwarded through things that I, I don't want to say I didn't care about them, but I was goal oriented. Okay. So any non-Crown TV award, I presume, fell into that category? Yeah, I did watch Phoebe Waller-Bridge's acceptance speech. I want a little more from her acceptance speeches. Well, she's really, she's had to do so many. And it was clear that I guess last night was probably the last in the Fleabag run of them. And so she had given a bit of thought to it and written something down.

And I thought it was like a little more sentimental than usual. It was. It was fairly straightforward. It was lacking some of the wit that we appreciated from Fleabag. Yeah, well, that's what you got the Golden Globes for. The acting awards, well, for the films,

were fairly predictable. This is emerging as a trend the last couple of years. We've seen as award season goes on, we get kind of the same winners in virtually every category. I do suppose last year, Glenn Close won for Best Actress and then Olivia Colman won at the Oscars. Yes. But I don't see that happening this year. This year, of course, Laura Dern won for Best Supporting

Actress. Brad Pitt won for Best Supporting Actor. We will talk about his speech in a moment. Yes, we will. Joaquin Phoenix won for Best Actor, gave, I thought, an interesting speech. You didn't like it? I did. I did. It seemed like a knowing corrective to his Golden Globe speech. I guess so. I like all of Joaquin Phoenix's speeches. We know that. I enjoyed it. I thought it was very charming. Renee Zellweger also gave a speech because she won. You know, my thought, obviously, was that the Oscars are going to be very dull because these four people seem to really have

these awards in hand. I could be wrong about that. Historically, when actors who have won Oscars before win SAG Awards, it doesn't guarantee that they're going to win a second Oscar.

In fact, I think, you know, Renee Zellweger would be a bellwether for this. She already has an Oscar. So it's not a lock, lock, lock, lock that she's going to win. But I don't know. This makes me less excited

about the telecast coming on February 9th. I agree. I think we felt a little about not about the acting category because I think I'm extremely excited for Brad Pitt to win an Oscar. Knocking on wood.

And my feelings on Joaquin Phoenix are well known. Really enjoyed Laura Dern. You and I have talked about how we just, we don't really understand the Renee Zellweger momentum. And I thought she gave a very fine performance in Judy. And she seems like a lovely person. And why are we doing this again?

Completely agree. Yeah. As for Pitt, well, he's just about my favorite standup comedian working right now. Are people writing jokes for him? I don't know. I don't know. Is it possible that he's just very funny?

I think so. Yes, yes. He is very funny. I don't want to besmirch Brad Pitt in any way. I had the time of my life watching this. He did seem to have given some thought. I thought it was interesting. They all, all four acting nominees

seemed to be expecting this and had prepared a bit for their speeches. But it did seem like some of the lines were planned ahead of time. Certainly, I've got to add this to my Tinder profile. His opening gambit when he went up to receive the award felt pre-written. And the Quentin TSA line. Yes. Quentin has separated more women from their shoes than the TSA.

Definitely pre-written. That feels like something that someone slipped him in the night. I'm not totally sure. And then a great bit of self-awareness from him as he reflected on his role as Cliff Booth when he said it was very hard for him to play, quote, a guy who gets high, takes off his shirt and doesn't get on with his wife, which was immediately followed by the camera on the telecast cutting to Jennifer Aniston. Yes, it was. Thank you to the SAG Awards. Shall we talk about the Brad and Jennifer reunion? Yeah.

How are you feeling? Thanks for asking. I'm taking some deep breaths and gathering my thoughts. So when I said that everything was spoiled for me, it was this that was spoiled for me, because my friend, my sister in gossip, Juliette Lemon, texted me this immediately. And the text messages were just like a lot of caps and exclamation points. This is what we want. This is why we do award season or this is why I do award season is to have these people in a room and have one photograph of Brad Pitt clasping Jennifer Aniston's wrist as

they're saying goodbye. And the video of Brad Pitt watching Jennifer Aniston's wrist as they're saying goodbye and the video of Brad Pitt watching Jennifer Aniston and give her acceptance speech you want the the tension you want it all a million cameras you want to be able to freak out with people afterwards this is this is what we want so in my heart of hearts I think this was a completely meaningless moment I don't think it indicated anything existential or metaphorical between Brad and Jen. That being said, there is something truly artistic about the photographs of them engaging with one another. The way that she's looking at him and he's looking at her.

And then obviously that image of him holding her hand as she pulls away is like a Monet. It is an amazing piece of pop cultural artifact that happened in an amazing succession last night. And obviously there will be weird speculation and the hopes and desires of a generation of people who grew up on this golden couple. Nevertheless, it was just a great and sort of hilarious moment

that people consumed instantaneously. Yeah, they're not getting back together. Let's just, let's all be real. Let's all be responsible adults. And we can use these beautiful images to remember our youth and to remember 2005 and the journey that we've been on with both of these people and the magic of a moment. They're not getting back together. One other thing I'd like to add, do you know who we have to thank or what we have to thank for the fact that Jennifer Aniston and Brad Pitt have been on the awards circuit together? I know exactly what you're going to do right now, but I'll let you do it if you like. Thank you to the morning show.

There it is. Without which we would not have the opportunity for Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston to be in the same room. That's great. Can't say I'm a fan of the morning show. Okay. I thought it was a nice moment and sort of like a reason for award shows. It did justify having a whole night like this. The other thing about the SAG Awards is, you know, they're only two hours and 15 minutes.

And in this case, I really enjoyed that length. Now, I don't feel that way about the Oscars, as you know, but the brevity of it was powerful for me. This is really inconsistent arguments from you. Okay. People took some hits at the SAG Awards last night. We're not going to yet talk about the best cast because that's a very important award, but this was a tough night for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, despite Brad Pitt's win. It was a tough night for the Irishman, both of which were more or less overlooked at these awards. Particularly Once Upon a Time in

Hollywood, which had some front runner vibes coming out of the Oscar nominations, was competing in Best Ensemble against a field that did not include 1917, did not include Little Women, did not include Marriage Story. They weren't even represented in that category. And it seemed like there was a clear path. And they did not win. And they did not win because Parasite won. Yes. Were you surprised that Parasite won the Best Cast Award?

I was. I agree with you that Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, both because it is such a large ensemble and there are so many really beloved names, both Leo and Brad, but older actors like Bruce Dern and younger actors like Julia Butters. And it really seemed SAG-friendly.

Yes, I agree. In fact, I moderated a conversation in front of SAG-AFTRA for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood a few weeks ago, and the crowd was seemingly in love with every single person on stage. So I was a little bit surprised. That being said, there is a kind of sociocultural wave happening with Parasite. How impactful that will be in the Oscar race is very interesting. It's notable that this film won because the largest segment of the Academy, as we say over and over again, by far is the Actors Branch. 1,324 of the 8,000 members accounts for about 16% of the entire voting body. Most of those actors are in SAG-AFTRA. So, you know, that means actors love

this movie. That's meaningful. Also notable, the last two Best Picture winners were not even nominated for the Best Ensemble SAG Award. Now, that sounds a little bit to me like 1917. In part, those films weren't nominated because, you know, Green Book is a two-hander, Shape of Water is an ensemble film, but, you know, it's mostly focused on a giant fish and Sally Hawkins. Remember the giant fish movie? I do. Well, only when we have to talk about best picture winners that no one thinks of again. Wild. And speaking of 1917, 1917 won the PGA award on Saturday night. The Producers Guild of America gives out their awards. This is important for

obvious reasons. The PGAs are the only other award show that uses the preferential ballot. And 1917 appears to be the movie that maybe not everybody loves, but everybody likes. There's no negative campaign around 1917. I'm not even sure what negative campaign you could come up with. Perhaps if the movie had a little bit more time to germinate in the consciousness, you could say, oh, well, perhaps it's not as deep story-wise as something like Parasite or something like Once Upon a Time or The Irishman. But that narrative has not yet come for it. Were you surprised by the PGA win? No. I was not either.

Yeah. It seems that 1917 is the frontrunner. And there was a whiplash quality to this weekend because the PGAs were on Saturday night and everyone was like, OK, now it's 1917. And then Parasite won Best Ensemble, which was very exciting. And I think you and I both really love Parasite. And that was just a fun moment. Everyone in the room was really excited to see them and they were so excited. And Mong Joon-ho is just videoing everything. Great moments.

So and then everyone said, okay, now we have to take Parasite seriously, which I think is true. But I still kind of think 1917 is the front runner. I agree. 21 of the past 30 winners of the PGA Awards since its inception have gone on to win Best Picture at the Oscars,

including 10 of the last 12. We definitely have our front runner. A couple of caveats here, though. And this is largely because, and I'm really into sort of forecasting trends and looking back at historical data, understand how the Academy is going to make choices. But 12 of the last 14 Best Picture winners

have won for Best Screenplay. I don't currently see a world in which 1917 wins for Best Screenplay. So that's one significant caveat. It's also highly unusual for a film with no acting prizes or noms to win best pick. Plus, this movie is not nominated for best editing. So all of these traditional markers that signal, like under normal circumstances, you would come out of this weekend with 1917 winning the PGAs and not being nominated at SAG and saying, well, 1917 is the clear front runner. And I think in many ways it is,

but I don't know. Something feels a little off to me. I don't know what it is. I don't necessarily feel strongly that Parasite or Once Upon a Time or The Irishman is going to win exactly, but it feels unsettled. Well, it's a weird year. And I agree with you that there are reasons to not suspect, but kind of hedge the traditional predictors. Number one, because it's such a short award season. And number two, because the Academy is changing. And so what was true of the Academy five or 10 years ago probably is a bit different at this point in terms of the voting body and the choices that they make. That said, I think that we're both just deluding ourselves to make this interesting. And I think it's going to be 1917. I know we do this every year. Yeah. Every year there's hopes and desires and then there's reality. And 1917 is good. That's not a kind of a critical judgment of it. It's not certainly not a bad film, but it just feels obvious and a little bit dull as a choice

and sort of historical, true to the Academy's, I don't know, sort of where their hearts lie ultimately into sort of the kinds of films that they want to reward. That's just kind of boring. Yeah, it's not the best movie of the year. No, definitely not. And we get to this place in that season every year and we get to this place when Best Picture is announced every year because Best Picture so rarely goes to the actual best film of the year in our opinions or in history as opinion, really. But I do. It's just disappointing. And it's not that fun to talk about, as you pointed out, if the acting categories are already locked. And then we also have a sense

that 1917 is also pretty certain. I don't know if I were putting money on it. That's what I would put money on right now. Granted, there are a few weeks. Voting hasn't started yet. You mentioned that the negative campaign for 1917 doesn't exist yet, though a lot of angry people on Twitter. And I think the critical response was muted. It was. To this movie. Some down votes on 1917. And I thought a thing that was very interesting in our conversation about 1917 before it went totally off the rails was that, which was fun for me, but you and Chris had revisited it and actually spent some more time with it and were far less enthusiastic about it than I was, who had seen it once, was like, huh,

some of that worked, and then never thought about it again. So if people are actually revisiting, watching screeners, thinking about it, maybe it changes. On the other hand, do Academy voters actually think about things? I don't know. Do they re-watch, too, is a very interesting question, especially for a film that was released so late in the season. Typically, when you and I talk, and you've always made this point since we started doing this show, that the films that arrive in December usually are kind of behind the eight ball. And that was an old trick that had been sort of, I don't know, solved by films being released in that sort of October window where a lot more winners came through. This is the rare case where a movie not existing in the consciousness for too long, but also being a hit, might be really beneficial to giving it the win. A couple things in Parasite's favor.

It won the Ace Eddie Award on Friday night, which is fascinating. I mean, this is an award that was won by Bohemian Rhapsody last year, which went on to win the Oscar. It's preposterous that Bohemian Rhapsody won that award, but it's great that Jinmo Yang won for Parasite. They break this up much like the Golden Globes

into best drama and best musical or comedy. Jojo Rabbit's Tom Eagles won, shocking once upon a time in Hollywood, which also was not nominated for an Oscar in this category. One more ding on Once Upon a Time in Hollywood's resume. You know, Parasite getting that best editing Oscar nomination was a bit of a surprise, and that surprise is usually a strong bellwether. So, you know, there's still like little outside indicators. And it seems like there is really passionate support in a lot of different buckets, right? Because the actors are clearly very excited about Parasite, the editing, the directors are very, very excited about Bong

Joon-ho. So maybe? It even has a production design nomination. So there are... It should, because of that house. I completely agree. But a lot of times things like that go overlooked by the Academy in favor of a massive costume drama. So it was very exciting to see that. So 1917 versus Parasite feels like where we're at. Very complicated. Obviously, you and I are in love with Parasite. Yes, it was my favorite film of the year.

Absolutely a masterpiece. Can I just say also, I'm on record as hating it when awards shows play clips of movies and actors because it just takes up time. I fast forwarded through most of them, but I did not fast forward through Parasite last night. And just watching the short clip of Parasite during the SAG Awards, I was psyched. Great movie. It's a very happy making movie despite its intense content. A couple of significant factors about this showdown. If it is in fact a showdown, which we don't know, we're just speculating. So Scott Feinberg from The Hollywood Reporter, I thought, had a lot of thoughtful data points on this,

particularly the similarities between 1917 versus Parasite and Slumdog Millionaire, another movie starring unknowns, which swept its way through the latter days of the Oscar race, kind of unimpeded. Slumdog Millionaire just kind of showed up. The Danny Boyle movie was a box office hit, was an uplifting story, and it just went all the way through for the big prize. And no one was nominated for an acting award there. The below the line stuff was a bit complicated. Some of it was represented, some of it was not. Feinberg also notes that the PGA is comprised solely of producers, whereas the Academy is comprised of people from all aspects of filmmaking. More than 93% of its members are not producers.

And the PGA is made up almost entirely of Americans and therefore reflects their tastes, whereas the Academy is increasingly an international organization. So, you know, there's a little bit in the parasite bucket. There's a little bit in the 1917 bucket. Which bucket is heavier is still a little bit unclear to us. What else do we have to come in the next few weeks before we get to the Oscars? We have the DGAs. Yeah. What do you think that that will tell us? Do you think that will be any kind of confirmation? Well, yes. It could probably tell us who wins Best Director. I think Bong Joon-ho is nominated

for the DGAs, right? And I think that if he wins that, then that's a good sign. Do you think it's a sign that he will win that award and that 1917 will win Best Picture? That seems quite possible. That has a lot of precedent. Yeah, I think that that's... I feel like right now in those categories, it's Greta Gerwig for Adapted Screenplay. It's Quentin Tarantino for Original Screenplay.

It's going to be Bong Joon-ho for Parasite. And it's going to be 1917 for Best Picture. Now, I may change my mind a hundred times between now and February 9th, but doesn't that sort of feel like the direction we're moving in? Yes. I think it mirrors last year

where the kind of the critical, enthusiastic, international favorite Cuaron did win in Best Director and then Best Picture went another way. I think also what was the, the jeopardy greatest of all time category that you were, the final answer that you were telling me about. It's funny you asked me that,

you know, um, there were, there's a question later in our mailbag about sort of why we talk about the Oscars, why the Oscars are important. And one kind of flip response I was going to have to that is because when you think about jeopardy,

that is what they use to indicate, you know, film historicity. They have Oscar categories. So there was a during the Jeopardy greatest of all time tournament last week, which was just absolutely one of my favorite television shows ever made. There was a final Jeopardy question. Let me see if I can get this question right. I believe it was these two foreign-born filmmakers have both won Best Director twice, though the films that they directed have never won Best Picture. And it was a little bit of a head-scratcher for a lot of people who came up with Alfonso Cuaron immediately. And the second part of that answer is Ang Lee. Now, obviously, Bong has not won once, let alone twice, so he's not

sliding into that question. But I just thought that was an interesting pattern and relatively recent precedent. Are you saying Jeopardy has the receipts on Oscar voting? Yes. Wouldn't that be exciting? It would be exciting. All your interests. Truly. So Saturday, January 25th is the DGAs, and then Oscar voting starts on January 30th. I mean, just like that, it's upon us. And the window is five days and it wraps February 4th.

And five days later, we'll be coming to you live. It's so fast. Every year I'm like, don't you guys want to count one more time? I understand that. I understand that computers are involved. Well, we know not to trust PricewaterhouseCooper, you know? That's true. Their integrity has been questioned significantly post La La Land

Moonlight debacle. I'm just like, don't we want to have a slightly more involved system just to make sure we get it right? How would you count? Well, I would still use computers, but should there be phases or something? Should we have a runoff? I don't know. It just seems so fast. I can't trust anything that people, you know me, I'd like to do my homework. I expect everything to be as complicated as possible in order to have value. So this just, this seems like no one's thinking about anything. If Ford versus Ferrari wins, we'll need a recount. Otherwise, I don't know. Hopefully things are up in the air. I want, I need a surprise. I need a surprise to feel good about this endeavor that we've been tackling for the last six months, honestly. I know. I really need

something fun to happen. Amanda, let's go to Stock Up, Stock Down now. If it goes bust, you can make 10 to 1, even 20 to 1 return. And it's already slowly going bust. Amanda, joining us to talk about the big winner of the box office weekend is Shea Serrano. Shea, how are you? Yeah, yo. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about the big winner of the box office weekend is Shay Serrano. Shay, how are you? Yeah, yo. Let's talk about it.

Let's talk about it. I'm so excited to be on the big picture right now. We're so excited to have you. It's the best podcast in America. Thank you, Shay. That is a lie. Obviously, Bad Boys, a new Bad Boys movie out in the world is not just a holiday for Amanda and I. It's a holiday for you.

We love Bad Boys. This movie was shockingly good. Maybe I shouldn't have been expecting something mediocre, but I think Amanda and I, I know, both enjoyed it. What did you think of Bad Boys for Life? I felt the exact same way. Everybody was like, you know, 30% leery when the trailer came out. And you're like, I don't know. I mean, they announced it in somewhere around November of 2018, like mid to late November, if I'm not mistaken. It was like Will Smith posted a thing saying it was happening.

Everybody got really excited. And then the trailer came and everybody was like, I don't know if this is going to work out that great. And then the review started to come in and slowly but surely you're hearing it's fun and it's good. And they're funny still. And it's an exciting movie. And yeah, I went and watched it the day it came out and I was just as pleased as could be. It was so much fun. Amanda, what was your quick reaction to Bad Boys for Life?

Are we spoiling? Let's not. Let's save the people. Well, then I can't tell you my quick reaction because there's something that happens in the first 10 minutes of this film. We'll just say that it's fan service and leave it at that. And I was like, well, you have me. Do whatever you want in this movie. I'm thrilled. So there we go. I completely agree. It's only been out for three days. Let's let the world see it. Although $72 million worth of Americans have already seen it. Shay, what did you love on the non-spoiler tip? Well, geez, on the non-spoiler tip,

I don't know. I feel like all of the stuff I'm going to say is a spoiler at this point. Okay, couch it. I know exactly the part that Amanda's talking about and I loved it as well.

There was like legitimate, near cheering. People were, you could feel it. I was cheering, Shay. Okay, good. I said the name out loud i was so oh my god blank is it was just i just felt it felt good is yeah as soon as that part happened we're like all right this is they're they're they're leaning into the stuff that was great about the other movies and now i'm excited i'm really excited to see where this goes

and how ridiculous it gets. I think we can at least talk about Michael Bay. Can we talk about Michael Bay? Absolutely. This is not a spoiler. This is just a really important piece of content.

Shay, I wish that you could have seen Sean's face when this happened. I wish I could have too. I listened to the episode y'all did after Six Underground came out and I was really the episode y'all did after Six Underground came out. And I was really excited that y'all liked it so much. And yeah, Michael Bay shows up. And you're just like,

the first thing I thought was, is that Michael Bay that I'm looking at right now? Is that what's going on here? He does have like a thing of popping up in his movies every once in a while. And I knew going in that he didn't direct this one. And I also knew going in that they, from the trailer that they were doing some very like Michael Bay type things

and the shots. And that's sort of, you know, if he doesn't show up, it's like, it's, it's, it almost would feel like they were ripping off his style.

But the fact that he does show up and it's like it becomes more of an homage to him. And it says it says like without saying it, that he cares greatly about bad boys and bad boys, too. It's like a thing he enjoys. And him being there allows everybody else to sort of enjoy the new one because he wasn't the director. But they were they're doing the up and under shots. We get the airplane from the belly. We get the like slow pan around of Mike and Marcus,

like after an action scene. It's just, it's just like a hug for my heart. We should say the directors of this movie are two men, Adil El Arbi and Bilal Fala. And they are, I think you're right, Shay.

They are essentially adopting the Michael Bay directorial style, which is, and particularly when Michael Bay hits the screen, he gets a 360 loop around shot of his own, you know, the sort of style that I don't know if he necessarily invented that style, but he certainly supersized it. And it calls back to a lot of the hallmarks of the series. Obviously, these movies, from a storytelling perspective, are a little silly, but they are so visually thrilling, and the humor is usually so dependably good. And I should say, Martin Lawrence, man, still really fucking funny. It's been probably seven years since he's been in a movie, but he's still so good. That's one of the things I have for my list of important things. That's the only note that I wrote down. Martin Lawrence, still fucking funny. He was just great. He's so important to the movie series.

I mean, we're talking about what Michael Bay brings to the franchise because the whole franchise feels totally different if you shoot it in any other way than how they shoot it. It makes sense they shoot it that way. It makes sense that it's in Miami. It makes sense that you have

Will Smith and Martin Lawrence, these gigantic personalities being directed by a guy who knows exactly how to shoot those that way. It makes sense that it's in Miami. It makes sense that you have Will Smith and Martin Lawrence, these gigantic personalities being directed by a guy who knows exactly how to shoot those exact personalities, but it doesn't work without those principal characters. And Martin Lawrence, who is responsible for the main jokes of the movie, just sticks the landing. He's just got so many great little lines that just pop up out of nowhere. And you're like, oh, that's right. You used to be considered one of the funniest people in America, and you still got it. What else jumped out at you about Bad Boys for Life?

You know who jumped out at me was Jacob. The guy, his, I don't know how you say his last name, Scipio or Scipio or- Oh, yeah. Armando Armas. Yeah. Armando is him in the movie. His real, his real name is, is Jacob, which this is like the highest compliment I can give to anybody when I see them in a movie and I, and I just have to Google, like I just

Google bad boys for life cast. Like I'm sitting in my car Googling bad boys for life cast so I can see who this guy is so I can go to youtube and then search any other like essentially fight scenes that he has been in because he has this great fight scene early on where he just lights some guys up just just as quick as it gets just pop pop pop pop and he's suddenly surrounded by dead bodies and i remember watching it and feeling like oh this guy must be like a thing that i don't know about yet, but he must have a bunch of work elsewhere. It was the same way I felt when I, like the first time I saw a clip of Ico Uwais, like a fight scene of his.

And you're like, oh my God, who is this person? When he has his little moment, I wanted more. And I just, I couldn't recall him from anywhere. And he's just, I really enjoyed him. Are you saying we need to get Jacob CPO in the Raid 3? We should absolutely get him in the Raid 3. You and I have talked a bunch about fight confidence in movies when people just look like they know what they're doing and how important that is for pulling off those sorts of moments. And he's up to his ears in fight confidence. I was really

excited about that. Yeah, he's a worthy bad guy in the movie, you know? He's, and complex, more complex than he may originally seem. Yeah, absolutely. And I don't know, they do like some whatever things with him, but mostly they just let him run around and lighten the people. And I enjoyed it. And then, you know, to that effect,

his mom, Kate Del Castillo, I love that she's getting these phone calls now of just like, can you show up in this movie and set everything on fire for a little bit? It's just,

did either one of y'all see El Chicano when it came out? Did not. I didn't. Okay. I was wondering why it didn't show up

like during any of the Oscar pods. This is why, apparently. So this is basically like Mexican Batman is what it is. The movie's not very good. It's not very good at all. But she has a part in it. At the very end, she's like the wife and mother of these two people who get killed. And she's at a funeral and when she's at the funeral that this is how the movie ends with her just firing up these

automatic guns into the sky and screaming just and not screaming like in pain but screaming in fury and it's it's the best part of the movie and it's one of those moments like i just mentioned you watch and you're like oh i need more of it was the only reason I wanted for them to make an El Chicano 2 was to see her show up and just destroy everything. And that's basically what we get in Bad Boys for Life. And I was really, really thankful for that. Shay, when Kate Del Castillo showed up on screen, I turned to Amanda and said, you know, Amanda, this is the actress who led Sean Penn to El Chapo. Which is how up until this which is how, up until this moment, is how I thought of Kate

Del Castillo, and now I think of her as this very important figure in the Bad Boys universe. Yeah, that's exactly what she is. And she's this iconic Mexican actress. She's unquestionable, which is why she got the phone call from, I believe it was an email, El Chapo's

lawyers emailed her about like taking over his life rights and yeah but i i love that she's showing up here and and to uh to your point about the bad boys universe like that's another thing that i walked out of the movie theater feeling really excited about because they do some very like fast and the furious style beats and they tee up what's coming next and you're like oh I get it I see what y'all are doing here and this is this is fun this is just I'm really excited so you did like that aspect of it they because I completely agree they basically made this a Fast and the Furious movie just not just in the level of action that

they're doing but the sort of family first ethos ethos that comes to the fore and also the way that they're, I don't know, narrativizing the long-term movie prospects of the Bad Boys movies. It certainly feels like a movie richly set up for a sequel. Also give me a prequel with Kate Del Castillo.

Oh, yes. Without spoiling, let's do the flashback. I would watch all of it. I would too. So you weren't bothered by that, Shay, as our foremost Fast and Furious-ologist? No, I wasn't bothered. I wasn't bothered by like the, by, by any of it really. I was definitely

more drawn to them pushing things forward than them trying to like co-opt the whole family angle. That was like, that was whatever. I didn't care. I didn't, I didn't carry the way about that, but I was genuinely excited when we get the, the like kicker and we're like, okay, this is what's happening next we're gonna get more of this and and and more of that what i what i really liked and i don't did did either of y'all watch gemini man we did yes okay excellent did you like it um i don't think amanda liked it very much i liked it with a lot of reservations. I think the action sequences are incredible. Okay.

That's where I landed too. Watching it, like the motorbike fight or the scene at the end when they're fighting the last bad guy or just the hand-to-hand combat in the tombs or whatever. It was a lot of fun to watch

and I had gone through a Will Smith sort of phase. Usually that's what I like to do when a new movie like this is coming out and I just will re-watch a lot of fun to watch, and I had gone through a Will Smith sort of phase. Usually, that's what I like to do when a new movie like this is coming out, and I just will re-watch a bunch of stuff, and I got to sit down and watch that one again. And while I'm watching these movies, it's really, to me, a very enjoyable thing when you start to find these little pockets of actors and actresses who are working together in ways that are like stitched together, but not really stitched together. What I mean is,

okay, so we were talking about Jacob. Jacob is in bad boys for life with Will Smith. And Jacob is also in this movie called hunter killer. He has like a really tiny spot. I didn't even realize he was in this until I went back and I'm researching him afterward, but he's in that movie with common realize he was in this until I went back and I'm researching him afterward, but he's in that movie with Common. Common is in this movie called All About Nina.

It's like a rom-com with Mary Elizabeth Winstead and Kate Del Castillo is in it as well. Then, of course, Kate shows up in this movie. Winstead is in Gemini Man with Will Smith. It's like we're just making these weird little circles that aren't really related, but you get to like make them related in your head. Common and Will Smith are also in Suicide Squad. Like, I don't know this, this sort of like nerdy, nerdy stuff is just, I like it. It makes me feel good. I like it too. So I'll say when I was a kid and I love to play six degrees of Kevin Bacon, you may recall that was a brief cultural phenomenon in which Kevin Bacon could be linked back within six moves or more or six moves or less

to any actor in the history of Hollywood right it occurs to me now as I get a little bit more experience and I know a little bit more about movies that the reason that people keep cropping up and like-minded material like this is because they recommend one another to their agents and to the filmmakers and so I wouldn't be surprised if Jacob and Kate, uh, you know, formed bonds professionally and then recommended one another to the producers and filmmakers besides some of these films. And that's how you get this sort of, um, camaraderie and this sort of all in the family feeling for all of this stuff. Not a bad thing. It's just, um, I suspect that maybe, maybe Common and Will are friendly and maybe they're recommending folks to each other you know

it's more than plausible to me did y'all did y'all know that Jacob is English no I saw that he's Guyanese yeah

I think it's like a combination of of things but he's not Latino which I thought he was in the movie and I started watching

videos of him he does like little comedy videos with his friends on YouTube and I'm like he starts the first one I like little comedy videos with his friends on YouTube. And I'm like, he starts,

the first one I watch, he like calls someone mate. And then you hear the accent and you're like, what is going on? It was like the first time I found out Daniel Kaluuya is not American. Yeah. It's always disorienting.

I was like, oh my God, this is unbelievable. Shay, I have a secret to tell you. I am also English. This has all been a performance. I wouldn't doubt it. I would not doubt it at all what else any parting shots on bad boys for life anything else on your list man i i there's a bunch

of stuff i would like to talk about but i really don't want to like mess up any of the little secrets or or fun parts that happen in the movie for anybody else so we'll circle back on it in like three years when it's on the rewatchables. But when we do like the block of bad boy movies, just one, two, three. Okay, rank both. Okay, one more thing. One more thing. Go ahead. I'm a little sad once they announced that they were making Bad Boys 4.

And I'm sure they immediately regretted not saving the Bad Boys for Life title for part four. Seriously. This was a huge blunder that's the only bad thing i have to say about the movie this movie should have been called bad boys trace and the fourth one should be bad boys for life that was the way to go yeah yeah so um both of you guys uh rank the bad boys movies one through three amanda you go first all right well two is still number one for me okay and i did actually re-watch the original fairly recently and you know i have to say that that scene of will smith sprinting down the the bridge or whatever it is is is pretty important to number

one will smith fan yes can i just also say Bad Boys for Life, Will Smith's still looking great. Let's just go ahead and acknowledge that. I guess I would put the original at number two and Bad Boys for Life at number three, but I don't mean that with any disrespect to Bad Boys for Life, which I enjoyed very much. That would be my ranking as well. Shay, what about you? Yeah, I have the exact same thing and also the exact same sentiment as Amanda this is like rank your three favorite things okay cool here's my three favorite things ranked there's like third place here is still first place in like mostly any other competition Shay you're one of my three favorite things thanks for joining us on the big Picture. Okay, I'll take it. Later, man.

Well, mama, look at me now. I'm a star. Amanda, we are replacing the big race with the big mailbag this week. Let's go to some questions. Bobby Wagner, help us out. All right, Jareen asks, what's the ideal running order for the telecast?

Specifics about when the show montages, when to do bits, and when to take commercial breaks are welcome. Do you have strong feelings about the way an Oscars telecast should roll out? You don't even want montages. I don't mind a couple. I don't want 85. I want to keep it to three hours, but three hours is a long time to work with. I do have specific feelings about you got to do a couple of big categories at the beginning. You know, you got to hook people. You got to give some energy to the situation. So they usually start with a supporting

actor category. Yes. Do you think that that's the right place to start or should they go even bigger? I think that that makes sense. And you do supporting actor and supporting actress within the first hour, which is not, that's pretty traditional. That's how they did it for many years when we were growing up. I think the problem is always the middle hour. And that's when they put like four montages in, they let everybody sing a song. No, thank you. There would be no songs on my performances on my Oscar telecast. And it's a lot of the craft awards, which are important, but which maybe don't have as much audience awareness. So I think you have to maybe sprinkle in, well, best director gives

too much away. So you can't do that in the middle. Every 20 minutes, you need a key award. Yeah. And it depends on the year how you define key award. This year, best international feature would be considered a key award because you've got a big film with a lot of nominations in Parasite represented here. I think there's two potential things we could do to break this up. One, the Academy must immediately adopt my idea to have a play-in game. And then the first thing that is announced is the winner of the play-in game to the public at the top of the telecast. No? No, because I don't want that, because I don't want the public to have anything to do with voting for who is nominated for Best Picture. Justice for the play-in game. The other thing is, what if you did this? This is a little crazy, but what if, rather than Best Picture be the last award, it be the race that is the most unclear in terms of what's going to win.

Now, you'd have to rely on prognosticators talking about what's going on. But even if you just looked at the betting lines, a lack of clarity in the betting lines might indicate what should be the last award, which would be a reason to keep watching because you never know. Maybe in the second hour, we'd see best picture. Do you want anyone to watch the Oscars ever? Like, what's wrong with you? You're like, play every single movie from start to finish,

then give out every single major award that people have heard of in the first 10 minutes, and then give a three-hour symposium on the difference between sound editing and sound mixing. What's wrong with you? There's hella galaxy brain out of you right there.

Chaos agent, let's go. Let's change these awards. Let's be a chaos agent, but let's also have some common sense. Okay, let's go to the next question. Red Miss Red, does the SAG win for Parasite improve its chances of a Best Picture win at the Oscars? So we addressed this in the first segment, but I just want to hit it one more time. Yes or no, do you think that SAG actually helps Parasite with a potential Best Picture win?

Yes. I guess. Again, I think all of these Guild Awards and Intermediary Awards are more like reflections of where the voting body is as opposed to things that actually influence the race just because the award season is so short. But Oscar voting has not started yet. It was very exciting when they won. You got them all up on stage in front of a lot of people. I do think that that matters at this point. I agree with you. One thing that I want to propose in addition to the play-in game and all of my other good ideas about the Oscars

is what if all of the guilds had to wait until after the Oscars to have their awards? Would the Oscars be more fun? Because who cares about the guild awards no why what are you doing why not then so would they just be in march and april yeah sure who cares i guess so but no one will show up so well wouldn't that be sad no people show people anytime you nominate somebody some somebody for something they'll show up people love to be celebrated but then it's a natural human impulse what do we talk about during oscar? Because if I have to talk about the opinions of people on the internet, then it's a no. We get to talk more about the movies. We get to talk more about the movies instead of the race.

That's so nice that you think that's how it would happen. Okay, maybe it wouldn't happen that way. What's the next question? Jub Jub. This is an unfortunate some of these names that I have to read. Jub Jub. Rank the best picture nominees in terms of how bad the discourse will be if they win. Here's your chance to clear the air on your Joker take. I'm not clearing the air. We can just replay what I said and people can learn basic listening comprehension. Here's

what I said. I said that if you think that it's the best movie of the year, you don't know anything about movies. If you enjoyed it, go with God Like you and I have different opinions and that is how the world works and I Support you and you go into the movies and you having enjoyment That being said that being said if it wins it's gonna be so annoying. It's definitely my number one for this It is mine, too It's which is not to say that I would be angry per se of joker one I just think that the discourse which is what really is in at the heart of this question, would be really unfortunate. And I think there'd be bad takes on both sides, frankly. I'm not really super excited to have a conversation about that. As far as the rest of the films,

it probably goes, check me on this. We'll go Joker would be the worst. I think Jojo Rabbit would be the second worst. I have that as well. And this is not an order of preference of which movies I liked more. Candidly, I think I like Joker more than Jojo Rabbit would be the second worst. I have that as well. And this is not an order of preference of which movies I liked more. Candidly, I think I like Joker more than Jojo Rabbit. That might seem like a stupid opinion to you, but I probably enjoyed watching it more and thought a little bit more about it. But we'll go Joker, Jojo Rabbit, Ford versus Ferrari, I suppose. Okay.

Because there would be a lot of like, oh, this old white man fable discourse happening. After that, I don't know, marriage story, maybe? Okay. Can I tell you my number three? I agree with you. Joker would be the worst discourse. Jojo Rabbit would be the second worst discourse. I'm going to tell you right now, Little Women would not be a fun discourse, even though I would be thrilled. But all of your reply guys and all of the people who didn't respond to this or who don't like to see change would come out in the woodwork, and then we would have to have an argument about that. It would not be fun, even though I would be thrilled. Let me be very clear that I would be so excited to have Little Women win, but I just

don't trust the discourse right now. Yeah, the contention gets a lot softer once you get into the middle of these nominees. If Marriage Story or The Irishman won, I don't think anybody would be mad. I think there would be a little bit of Netflix conversation about, you know, how they are or are not taking over the industry. And then you get into kind of the top of the list. 1917, I think, would be dull, but no one would be angry. I think they will. People can find a way to be angry about everything.

And the 1917 thing, for the most part, people are going and enjoying it. We mentioned The Reply Guys. There also are a lot of people who think that it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny and are getting a little

testy about that. That's the problem is people get testy about everything. That's the hell that we live in. It's true. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, I think there are still a lot of people who dislike the ending of that movie and dislike the kind of orgiastic violence at the end of the film.

There probably would be some thoughts about that. Maybe we would go back to some of the Bruce Lee controversy or the Sharon Tate controversy or a lot of the kind of like phony things that seem to have dissipated over time. And then I think Parasite is probably the least controversial, least discourse-y take. There would be a discourse, which is the Academy is getting more international. The Academy is evolving. How exciting that a movie like this could be recognized from a confirmed master with a great cast and extraordinary production design and great writing and yada yada. But I still think there would be some people who'd be like Parasite is overrated. I still think that's when the Parasite is overrated conversation really starts. 100%. And then there would be people who'd be like, you know, I don't care about this. I mean, the discourse in a lot of ways, we're just bringing out the worst of humanity and each win would bring out the worst of something because that is what the internet has created in 2020. It's true. I don't feel great about even the way that we've ranked this. That's how complex the sort of discourse ranking is. Bobby, what's next? Chandler asks,

what's the one win, one in all caps, so don't cheat the question. I think that's at you, Sean. What's the one win you want to see happen at the Oscars? It's rude.

Amanda, you answer this. Brad Pitt. Brad Pitt. I would like to see Brad Pitt win an Oscar. He can speak for three hours as far as I'm concerned. Hmm.

I don't know what my answer... I have no desire to say like, Yarn Blaschke for The Lighthouse. I'm not trying to play that game. I think it would be wonderful if Greta Gerwig won an Oscar for screenplay. But I want Noah Baumbach to win an Oscar. Okay. I'd like them both to win an Oscar. Okay. I'd like them both to win Oscars.

Sure. And that's possible. I think I was also speaking within the realm of getting things that I expect to happen or believe will happen. I'm trying not to get my hopes up. If Greta wins, I will be quite emotional. It's in play.

It's definitely in play. I'm not getting my hopes up. That's my Oscar strategy 2020. Okay. Don't get your hopes up. I think you can count on Brad. That's why that's the one that I really want to see and that I'm going to feel great

and it'll just be a nice moment. That's what I'm looking forward to. If Anthony Hopkins wins an Oscar in the first 20 minutes of the telecast, all bets are off. Shit's going to go wild. Yeah. Also, I won't be here anymore.

So that'll be tough for you. You're going to go walk into the. Also, I won't be here anymore. So that'll be tough for you. You're going to go walk into the ocean. Walk over to the Dolby Theater and let myself be known. Fair enough. What's next? What year had the best, best pick nominees top to bottom? This question is from Dan. So I did some just some older historical research on this one, and I'll kick a few your way. I don't know if you have any from this century you'd want to highlight. Yeah, I have one from the 70s

that I thought you left off. Oh, interesting. Okay, so I've got three from the 70s and one from the 40s here. 1975, which I think in most corners is widely considered the greatest collection of Best Picture nominees. That includes One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest,

Barry Lyndon, Dog Day Afternoon, Jaws, and Nashville. Five of my probably 150 favorite movies ever made. Maybe my 100 movies ever made. We've got 1978 here, which includes The Deer Hunter, Coming Home, Heaven Can Wait, Midnight Express, and An Unmarried Woman. And 1979, which features Kramer vs. Kramer, Defeating, All That Jazz, Apocalypse Now, Breaking Away, and Norma Rae. All very good films. What other 70s year well i just thought that 76 should be there as well which is rocky all the president's men bound for glory network and taxi driver pretty great that's a pretty good one

you know what was good was uh movies in the 70s they were they were really good they were they were mostly made by white guys who were having a lot of problems, which sounds a little bit like 2020, honestly. But the movies were very good. In each of these lists, you have a kind of a soft fifth, I think. You know, like Norma Rae and Breaking Away are both very good films that I don't know are necessarily historically important films. Midnight Express and Heaven Can Wait and An Unmarried Woman are, you know, a little Unmarried Woman are, you know, a little bit, maybe not lighter, but not as sort of profound as Coming Home or The Deer Hunter.

I think the same is true in 76. There's Bound for Glory is a good movie. Sure. It's not a truly- Yeah, but then four out of five are all-timers. Four out of five are all-timers. In 75, though, Cuckoo's Nest, Linden, Dog Day, Jaws, Nashville. It's five for five. Unassailable. Yeah. And then I thought 1945 was a good year to pick out, too, which features The Lost Weekend,

Anchors Away, The Bells of St. Mary's, Mildred Pierce, and Spellbound. A lot of confirmed masters on this list. A lot of historically great performances. A lot of different kinds of movies. You know, you've got Frank Sinatra represented, and Bing Crosby represented, and you've got Billy Wilder represented, and you've got a James Caine novel, and you've got Hitchcock. That's the kind of thing that I'm looking for when I look back to Oscars past. Anything in the 2000s that you would consider? A lot of people say 2007. I think that is the best of the 2000s. If you had to pick a 90s, what would you pick? Hmm.

So the problem with choosing movies from the 90s is my nostalgia collides with my clarity. And I guess... Well, we're imperfect and we're just doing our best. We are just doing our best. Gosh, I mean, there's not a year here that I think is absolutely undeniable. Maybe 93. Okay. Which features Schindler's List, The Fugitive, In the Name of the Father, The Piano, and The Remains of the Day. Yeah, that's a good one. That's on my short list. I was going to go with 94. Okay. Which is Forrest Gump wins, but you've also got Four Weddings and

a Funeral, Pulp Fiction, Quiz Show, and Shawshank Redemption. We'll get back to 1994 later in this mailbag. Bobby, what's next? Do you want to nominate any for the worst year, or have we not done the legwork? Is it unnecessarily bad-spirited? Well... The early 2000s... Well, I guess the 2000s had their highs and their lows. 2007 was great, and some other years were tough.

I mean, 2011 is famously not good. 2011, the artist wins best picture, The Descendants is nominated, fine film, probably Alexander Payne's least great film, Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close, Disaster, The Help, a movie I don't like, Hugo, in my top three least favorite

Martin Scorsese movies, Midnight in Paris, made by Woody Allen, Moneyball, which we love and is overlooked. The Tree of Life, Terrence Malick. Beautiful film. And War Horse, eminently forgettable historical drama from Steven Spielberg. You know, that's nine films, maybe three of which are really worthy of the conversation. That's not a good ratio.

Anything else? I'm sure there are some from like 1938. What's your best from 10 nominees? The best year? Of 10 nominees. It's got to be this year, right? 2017 is the only other contender. Yeah, that's very good too.

That's very good. Yeah. I think that there are some people who are down on The Post and who are down on Darkest Hour. I like both of them just fine. I'm not as high on Call Me By Your Name as many people of our generation. I loved Call Me By Your Name. Giving me raised eyebrows.

Yeah, well, I appreciated it. And then Dunkirk, Get Out, Lady Bird, and Phantom Thread. Unquestionably great films. Okay.

Well, what's next, Bobby? Next question comes from Mando. Shout out to The Watch. Mando! Is there still hope for Leo taking Best Actor? Still think his performance was amazing.

No, but we love Leo. He was very good. I think this is his second best performance of all time. Someone reminded me on Twitter over the weekend that I said when we did our original Once Upon a Time episode of this show that I thought this was the best Leo performance. And I think I might still think that.

And it's understood that because he's won for the Revenant already that he's not even in the race. Brad Pitt has gone out of his way to compliment Leo up and down with every award that he's won. And Leo's hardly won anything. But man, it'd be cool. It'd be cool if he won for this. It would be great.

We would be thrilled. He's worthy of two Oscars. Exactly. I just don't really think it's going to happen. I agree with you. What's next? Next comes from TheRealALev. Can you explain for the commenters the technical differences between the roles in directing

versus DPs? Let's go, camera boy. All yours. Camera boy? Wait, is TheRealALev Lev Parnas? Oh, no. Okay. Can we not?

Let's just keep it moving. I'm not an expert in the technical differences between directing and directors of photography. I can just say that every person is different and every filmmaker is different. Some filmmakers rely entirely on their director of photography to figure out how to light a film, how to shoot it, even what composition should be. Some great directors are great directors of actors and they're not great visual stylists. Some filmmakers are very collaborative with their DPs, and they make a lot of choices based on the information that they get from the people that they're working with.

Other filmmakers are huge control freaks who plot and design every single thing that they do. Bong Joon-ho, in many ways, is a control freak. That doesn't mean his film is not shot beautifully by his cinematographer, but he sketches, composes, designs his entire movie. He's just like Alfred Hitchcock in that way. He sees everything and executes. David Fincher, very similar.

We respect control freaks on this podcast. We do. As a pair of control freaks, we have a lot of respect for them. That doesn't mean that I don't respect filmmakers, though, who, like Mike Nichols, for example, famously one of the great directors of actors of all time, has a huge Broadway background,

not exactly the most overwhelming visual stylist, though he does have a panache in his filmmaking. But he's somebody who you think of and you think, like, this is somebody who captures moments, scenes, feelings in a profound way. So it's neither good nor bad if somebody is one or the other. It's just some people do things a little bit differently. How was that for a camera nerd?

You did a great job. A gold star for you. Thank you. He gets to keep his title as camera boy. Camera boy. Jimmy asks, if Netflix could win the Best Picture Oscar, but they have to pick the movie, which one do you think they would choose? This is a great question. I love a question that asks us to interrogate the feelings of corporations. Yes, it's what we do every week on this podcast. We try to ignore that we're doing it, but we are. It's true. I feel pretty confident in my answer.

Tell me. The Irishman. I think it is The Irishman. However, Marriage Story would represent something different to them. The Irishman is Netflix trying to be like old Hollywood. It's trying to get a movie that is big and expensive from a master with a classical genre archetype, the big prize. That would be Netflix trying to be Columbia or trying to be Warner Brothers or RKO or what have you. If Marriage Story wins, it's a little bit more like we went on our terms. We chose this filmmaker who makes smaller films. He's never had really an award season to his own. And we thrust him into the spotlight powerfully.

We put movie stars in his movie, but otherwise he just made one of his movies and he got a win. So I could see the case for them wanting something like Marriage Story. Also, it's cheaper to make Marriage Story, frankly. That is true. And I love Marriage Story, but I think the fact that it's cheaper to make Marriage Story, frankly. That is true. And I love Marriage Story,

but I think the fact that it's cheaper is the reason. They spent so much money on Irishman that they need it to win in order to justify their decisions because all of their decisions are under scrutiny at this point. There's a very strong case that the Irishman does not win any Oscars.

Isn't that wild? It's crazy. 10 nominations, it might not win anything. Definitely. What's next? Andrew asks, I love the idea of a best first feature slash first time director category for the Oscars.

How realistic is its addition? And then he says that I think, he says that he thinks it would help bring some youth and energy. We agree. We've mentioned this a few times. We'll give this award out this year on our alternative Oscars episode in a couple of weeks with Wesley Morris.

I'll say that when we first started talking about kind of what categories we could add a few weeks ago, I heard from a lot of people. I heard from some voters. I heard from people who work in the industry, all of whom said to me, do not count on it. Do not expect the addition of any awards because this is such an entrenched and weird group of people who have such a severe sense of what the quote unquote academy represents that changing something like this feels very unlikely to them. The only thing that they told me could happen would be that they would fuse sound editing and sound mixing, that that would become one award, which is something that's long been rumored. Okay. Do you think that they would ever expand director to 10? It's an interesting question. Do you think that that is preferable to going male and female director, which is something that has also been floated? I do. Yes. Because you have 10 best picture nominees or you have the possibility for 10 best picture nominees. And there is that line every year of like, oh, I guess this movie directed itself. So, and obviously the awards do have some overlap, but increasingly they don't.

So it does give more space. I would be interested to hear what actual women filmmakers think about this. I think that they are the people who are affected so they could decide. But I'm a little resistant to best female director. There's just something about, I would prefer that they could just get to take it on the actual terms of directing as opposed to having the female in front of it. But something does need to be done. So I don't and I don't know whether 10 would would fix it necessarily. You can't overstate what a significant move it was when the Academy expanded just to 10 films.

And that has been such a controversial choice. And there's a real debate about whether or not it's been effective at all. I've thought about it a lot. The idea of expanding other categories is tricky. The Oscars has vacillated on this issue over the years. There have been some categories where the number has changed over time. You know, for example, I believe it's makeup and hairstyling this year represents five nominees and it represent only three nominees for a long period of time. So some things like that do change. It's the introduction of the new

categories like best female director or like breakthrough performance or breakthrough film or those things are going to be very difficult to pull off. And we'll see, you know, how the new Academy president reacts when the ratings go down this year, which they will. Right. It is also, I think a lot specifically about breakthrough performance, which is something that you and I would both be really excited about and breakthrough director, which is slightly different than first time director. Interesting. However, I then start thinking about the Best New Artist Award at the Grammys all the time, which is the number one catastrophe of all awards because it's always someone who has released five albums and then inevitably is nominated.

And then inevitably it's given to whoever iHeartRadio really likes playing and it's just a mess. Yeah, is Adele up for Best New Artist this year? She honestly could be. That's how it works. And so introducing ambiguity with awards bodies like this doesn't always seem to be the way to solve the problems that we as viewers want solved. Bobby, what's next? Brian asks, what do you guys think will be the biggest surprise of the night? Gosh, there always is one. There is one.

It might be a screenplay. It might be Greta. Again, I just... Would that qualify as a surprise to you? I'm not expecting it. And as mentioned, I'm guarding my heart. And it wouldn't be out of nowhere. I think a surprise would be a Best Actress upset.

I think that's the only one where there's even the tiniest bit of wiggle room just because Judy hasn't had the footprint that other movies have this year. That's where I see a potential upset. We'll see. But I'm not expecting that. I'm not either. And I don't even really know who would be running in second place

in Best Actress. Would it be Saoirse Ronan? It could be Scar Jo. Scar Jo. Well, you know, that would be a surprise. And that would be an interesting thing to kind of understand and break down a little bit.

We'll just have to wait and see. What's next? You're chosen to produce the telecast. How do you start the show off? You know my answer. Nick Field asks. Walk to the center of the stage. And I explain why we will not be playing any clips from any of the films.

Wait, you're suggesting that you appear in the opening segment of the oscars the goals that we have for tonight are three hours ladies and gentlemen here is a strange woman you've never seen or heard from before who has come to lightly antagonize you about what this show will not be that sounds like a hell of a way to kick off a huge television event in 2020. Says the man who just wants to announce all the awards in the

first minute of the show. More raffles. We got to get raffles to give out awards. That's where we're going. What's next?

Neither of you even answered that. I want to reveal the winner of the play-in game. That's what I want. That's what I want the world to know.

Anyway. Avnish asks, you have the power to go back and reverse any decision the way you want in an author's history. What do you change? I made a couple of obvious notes here. There are some historical quote unquote travesties that I have,

that have been hobby horses of mine for a long time. One is obviously Forrest Gump over Pulp Fiction in 1994. No bueno. I like Forrest Gump. In fact, I participated in a very upsetting episode of The Rewatchables with Bill Simmons. It features Bill imitating Forrest Gump, furiously masturbating. If you like Sean being uncomfortable on podcasts,

then check out The Forrest Gump Rewatchables. Forrest Gump is not great, but also something I enjoy. Pulp Fiction, of course, one of the most important movies that's been released in my lifetime. I would obviously go Pulp there. John Cazale, five movies, all five in his career, his very brief career, were nominated for Best Picture. And somehow he never got a Best Supporting Actor nomination. Shameful by the Academy. And Art Carney winning an Oscar over Al Pacino for his work in The Godfather 2. It's not what you want.

Any for you that are keen? Yeah, well, there's one other super obvious, like the trademark of this podcast, which is King's Speech over The Social Network. Terrible. Yeah. Another one, you know Nora Ephron never won an Oscar? She was nominated a few times. What would you have wanted her to win for? Well, it's tough because she was nominated for When Harry Met Sally in 1989.

But so was Spike Lee for Do the Right Thing. Quite a showdown. Yeah, I can't really say that I would, even though I think that When Harry Met Sally is her most important script. But the take there is that Spike should have won Best Director for that. Okay. You know, and he wasn't even nominated. Okay. So.

But I think that's the most obvious one. And then, I guess Sleepless has to be the other, which she was also nominated for. Okay. Yeah, there's, I mean, you know, we could do an entire Oscar Travesties podcast. There are so, so, so many over the years

that are just so obnoxious. Like, just look at the best picture winners over the last 50 years. It's very unsettling. Let's go to the next question. All right, this is a clever question from Luke.

Who do you think will win the most Oscars in their career out of these three? Timothee Chalamet, Florence Pugh, and Saoirse Ronan. Excellent question. It really is. So obviously, Saoirse Ronan has a head start, just in terms of the number of nominations. Five. I thought it was four.

Four? Four. I think it's four just because her boyfriend, Jack Loden, posted an Instagram of just a very close-up of his four fingers. Like a very blurry close-up. She's 25? Yes. That's outrageous. So she does have a head start.

She's in Meryl Streep territory where she's likely to amass a huge number of nominations in her career. But she could also be in Meryl Streep territory where she is nominated every year but doesn't win that often. Well, if she keeps making movies like The Iron Lady, then yeah, she will. Okay. So putting that to one side, then you can see Florence Pugh, who just brings it all, all of the time. And they're really big performances. I could almost see Florence Pugh winning before Saoirse, just because of the type of movies and performances that she brings.

I don't yet know what kind of movie star she's going to be. Right. Because if you look at her career thus far, she's the star of Lady Macbeth, she's the star of Fighting With My Family, and she's the star of Midsommar. But what was the series that she made for AMC? Oh, Little Drummer Girl.

Right. She was one of the stars, but not the central, maybe not the only lead figure in that show. She's not the only lead figure, but she carries it. You can't really. She is the little... Well, it's a metaphor. Okay. Great. Let's not go too far down that path.

And in Little Women, she's a supporting actor, and it's a little easier to win from that perch at this age. She's going to get so many opportunities now. I mean, she's obviously a supporting figure in the Black Widow movie. After that, I don't really know what she has on deck, but she's going to get a lot of swings. Whether she decides to go more supporting or more lead,

it's probably a question of who will win first. That said, is it possible that Timmy wins ahead of either of them? I love Timmy so much. Timmy is this generation's Leo. And I think that means... Wait your turn. Yeah. I think he will be in the conversation every year.

I think he's extraordinary. I don't know when he'll actually get that Oscar. I could be wrong. I'd love to be wrong. Well, he's taking a swing with the new Wes Anderson movie later this year and also with the new Dune movie later this year. And then in 2021, he's going to be playing Bob Dylan. Yeah. You're not looking forward to that?

I'm sure it'll be nice. It's very believable. What's next, Bobby? Joe asks, what do you think was the best performance of the year that had no chance to get nominated interesting question

I think Winston Duke and Us is pretty great and was overwhelmed by what Lupita is doing in Us because it's such a big performance

and so central but he also has a big burden to carry in that movie and he kind of introduced us to somebody that we kind of

want to be around. I don't know if you got a chance to see the trailer for Spencer Confidential this morning. I didn't. Okay, this is a new Peter Berg film starring Mark Wahlberg. Oh, wow. As a, I think he's a detective who's recently been released from prison.

Sure. Who can't stay out of trouble. Yeah. Netflix kind of action comedy. Winston Duke plays his sidekick. I love Winston Duke. I'm happy to see Winston Duke. Doesn't look like the most sophisticated movie in the world. So yeah, I'll say Winston Duke plays his sidekick. I love Winston Duke. I'm happy to see Winston Duke. Doesn't look like the most

sophisticated movie in the world. So yeah, I'll say Winston Duke is one. Okay. And Florence from Midsommar is two. Sure. Because I loved what she did

but that's the kind of movie that the Academy just can't get on the same wavelength with. What would you say? I've got a few. Yeah. A really obvious one is Honor, Spent, and Burn

in The Souvenir. A not obvious one is Maya Erskine in Plus One i just that as a as a comedy performance that has stayed with me this year fantastic and then jonathan majors and last black man in san francisco great call great pick um i'll also add uh thanos i am inevitable uh bobby what's next? Sam asks, in terms of the Academy voting, how do you think this year's Best Picture nominees would have fared going up against some of the recent

Best Picture winners? Also a great question, I thought. At least four of the films that are nominated this year would have won in a bunch of other years if they had been able to stand alone and compete against other movies. If 1917 got a chance to compete against the artist, it would have beaten the artist. I think if Parasite would have had a alone and compete against other movies. If 1917 got a chance to compete against the artist, it would have beaten the artist. I think if Parasite would have had a

chance to compete against The Shape of Water, it could have beaten The Shape of Water. If Once Upon a Time in Hollywood could have had a chance to compete against Birdman, it would have beaten Birdman. Like you could play that game where you pick and choose which movie comes out. Sure, but I don't think we can guarantee any of that because all of this happens in context and the year in which these movies are being seen and the campaigns that are being run and the bad actors who are running those campaigns. That's true. And I think also a large,

the Academy always finds a way to disappoint us. So I don't think that you can definitively say that once upon a time in Hollywood, it would just have swept through, you know, 2015 or 2014. I think it would have had a better chance. I don't disagree with you. What's next? Uncut Johns, a Twitter account after my own heart.

Why does the Academy hate A24? The Academy does not hate A24. Strawman. This is a false positive projected by Uncut Johns. Moonlight won Best Picture, so the Academy does not hate A24. A24 had an amazing year, but they also released a lot of movies that I would describe as very Academy unfriendly. I just mentioned Midsommar, Uncut Gems, the inspiration for the titular Uncut Johns. It's just not an Academy movie.

You know, Last Black Man in San Francisco, not an Academy movie. The Farewell, not an Academy movie. First Reformed, my beloved First Reformed last year, not an Academy movie. These movies are not recognized because they're slightly more provocative. They are more independent. They are more intense. They are not for the 72-year-old assholes that are interviewed in the New York Post every time the season comes around sharing their bad opinions

about why they don't want to nominate a movie starring Jennifer Lopez or Adam Sandler. And the Academy is changing but it is not changing as rapidly as we would like nor is it yet dominated by merch bros.

That said, can we just go back to the SAG Awards for one second because one thing I wanted to highlight the end of Jennifer Aniston's speech she finishes

she talks about how overwhelmed she is thank you so much community of actors whatever whatever and then she remembers that she wants to shout out items adam sandler and she's just like i love you buddy great performance and that's how her speech ended that was pretty cool we love jennifer that was pretty cool there we go what's next wow try that on for size uncut sean's dunked on a goal father what is the greatest movie to never win an oscar goal father thank youfather, thank you.

Thank you for this question. So you just, you put together all of the classic examples of the great movies that never even got nominated. Should I say them out loud? Yeah, you want to read them? Bringing Up Baby, His Girl Friday, Heat, A Man Escaped, In the Mood for Love, The Long Goodbye,

The Searchers, The Shining, Touch of Evil. This is just 10 or 11 films you could name a hundred more not even one nomination not even one nomination for any of those let me ask you a follow-up question what is the in your opinion the best movie that did not win best picture the best movie ever that did not win there it's all of them. There are so many examples, but I'm curious which one really sticks in your craw.

God. I need a bath before I can answer that question. Okay, I'm sorry. I don't know. I mean, there's personal preference.

You know, like Touch of Evil is way up. The Third Man is my favorite movie of all time, right? So The Third Man did not win Best Picture.

Okay. So I'll just say The Third Man for the sake of conversation. Okay. What about you? Singing in the Rain. Also a great one. Yeah. That's very high on my list of lifetime films.

And, you know, I mean, we talk about the social network all the time from this century. There are a gang of Coen Brothers movies in the 80s and 90s that I think all could have and should have won. I think Miller's Crossing should have won. I think Lebowski should have won. There are a bunch of stuff like that that should have won that hasn't. So we could play that game for a long time, but we can't. We have to go to the next question. Do you think there's a solution, Cameron asks, for getting more female directors nominated besides just voter mindset changes? When we talked about the potential of adding the new category, aside from that, I don't

think browbeating has worked. No. In fact, there's been a negative reaction to it. I think it's having the opposite effect. And so that makes me wonder. I mean, I think one thing that would help, which is slowly happening, is more women are getting to direct more movies. So if you have more choices, you're going to overwhelm the consensus and you're going

to create a new consensus. But that takes decades as opposed to years. It's going to take a long time. That's it. It's fucked up, but it's true. Yeah. Next. JC, leaning on some ringer IP here. If you had to do a rewatchables episode on one of the best picture nominees tomorrow, what would you pick? Unfortunately, we are doing one. I was going to say, are you going to plug? We're not going to plug. I'm going to leave it. We going to plug? We're not going to plug. Okay. I'm going to leave it. We're going to be doing a live podcast of the Rewatchables at the Sundance Film Festival later this week, which we'll be posting on the Rewatchables feed.

And there's one of the nominees. So stay tuned. Are you inviting guests in your mentions? Everybody tweeted Sean Fennessey. They'll come regardless. The Polishman asks, give me your Howard Ratner parlay for this year's awards good question this is stressful i'm i'm not an expert gambler so is that true you're not qualified for this podcast okay so this you're picking several things and all of the things have to happen that's what what a parlay is. Correct. And they can be things like, you know, what time is best supporting actor announced or whatever.

It doesn't just have to be the categories themselves. That's right. Okay. I'm not going to do that. I'm just trying to understand the rules of the game here. Okay. My parlay will be if Parasite wins best editing and Bong wins best directing, then 1917 wins best picture. Okay. And that's the formulation that I want to go those three.

So Kevin Garnett for the tip. Okay. Kevin Garnett for points plus rebounds. Points plus rebounds. And the Celtics win. That's the parlay in uncut gems. Okay. Yeah, I remember.

So that's my three-way parlay. Okay. You're so serious right now. Well, gambling is important. Yeah. And gambling on the Oscars is doubly important. Got it? I do.

You don't want to make any bets? I'm trying to think. I think that I would do Bong for director and 1917 for picture. And then should I just throw something else in? Am I trying to? What's the goal? Am I? It's tic-tac-toe. You have to hit all three to hit the bet. All right. And then I'll do Pitt in supporting actor. That's so. What do you want me to do? Do you want me to do Tarantino in the original screenplay? You're not embodying Howard Ratner, though. You got to take chances. Because this is how I win, et cetera?

Yeah. Okay. But isn't that also how I win? By picking the correct answers? Picking the winners. Think of what the Polishman would want you to do. The person who asked you this question. Some wild shit, you know?

Okay. But I don't think anything that you picked is that wild in fact we picked two of the same three same things and then you picked editing based on the results of the editing guild amanda thank you for playing next question um so we have time for maybe like two or three more let's do three more okay danny cox asks do you think ford think Ford versus Ferrari would have done any better if the Fox slash Disney merger hadn't gone through? Good question. My answer is yes. Really? Yes. Okay. There would have been a lot more energy and weight behind this movie. And Fox cares about

running campaigns a lot more than Disney does. Okay. There's a much bigger apparatus for live action films at the previous Fox administration. So by done any better, we mean at the Oscars? Yes. Okay. It did quite well. And the dads of the world are thrilled. It would have been hard for me to know what kind of business it would have done. But in the awards race, there's a big story to tell about Bale there that wouldn't have been difficult. But also on the below the line stuff, and Ford Verso did okay. It did get that best editing nomination, which is great. And it got some sound nominations, but it did not get best cinematography, in fact. And that movie is an orchestra of sound and vision. It is like an amazingly well-made movie and in a very old-fashioned style in the same

exact way that 1917 is. Yeah, I was going to say 1917 stole its launch. It did in many ways, but even still, there would have been a more aggressive and interesting way to run their campaign. So I think it would have. Good question. Sam asks, we saw David O. Russell have a great start to the 2010s. Which filmmaker do you think could emerge as a new consistent contender in the coming 10 years? Hmm. Greta Gerwig. And, you know, Jordan Peele is on the list of people that you'd want to add there. I'll be curious to see if the Lulu Wongs of the world get into this mix. Obviously, Barry Jenkins and Damien Chazelle have emerged as profound filmmakers,

both of whom are making TV shows right now, which is probably the one caveat to this sort of thing in terms of highlighting. David O. Russell probably didn't even have a chance to make a TV show when this decade started. Or if he did, he was not interested in it. People like Chazelle and Jenkins are way more interested in the chance to make a longer 10-episode kind of project for all these streaming services. But I think we just named about five or six potentials there. What's next? All right, this will be the last one. Jackson asks, how much do the Oscars matter and why? We always complain about nominations and winners. I'd love to hear your opinion about why they matter in the broader context of film history

for everyone involved. Do you think that they do? Yes, I do. What is your reasoning? I think that the construct of the Oscars being a thing every year that is on the consciousness of a certain number of people who maybe don't follow movies all of the time, but they know when the Oscars are. They like to see who's going to be there. And they have some kind of top line consciousness of, oh, this might

be the Oscar favorite. I was talking to a good friend of mine over the weekend and she's been listening to the podcast. And so she had gone out to see 1917 and she told me she went because we had made it sound like it was going to win the Oscar and she wanted to have seen it. So I think, and I'm not sure she would have gone otherwise. And there are still people who consume movies and pop culture that way, where it's like, oh, maybe I should check that out. And they are aware of things that they would not otherwise be paying attention to because of the Oscars. I agree. Just to add on top of that, you have to think of them like a sketch in pencil, not the blueprint for movie history.

If you think of them as a blueprint, you'll be infuriated and you'll take away bad lessons. If you think Oliver was the best film in the year that it was released, I think 1969, you're a buffoon. It was not that film. It was 2001 or something else. You wouldn't know necessarily exactly the truth about the most meaningful moments in the history of cinema by looking at the Oscars. But what the Oscars does is it creates conversation about the value of art. And that is meaningful in our society, trying to understand why things have happened, why things are connecting with people, how things get out into the wider world, and then also how we mark time. In many ways, the things that are bad about the Oscars are just as important because it allows us to have a conversation about race, about gender, about class, about all of the things that movies also help us have conversations

about. Now, that feels, I think, a lot of times in the context of this show, like a burden, like an anchor. Oh my God, we have to talk about Joker and incels. Oh my God, we have to talk about why Greta isn't nominated for Best Picture. That sounds bad. It's actually good. It's actually good to shine a light on that conversation. The Oscars, because of its historical nature and because of the people who comprise the Academy,

force us to understand everything in context. And that's exciting. Not to mention, personally, I love the show. I love to watch the show. I make a joke of how I want it to be six hours, but I do want it to be six hours because it's just six hours of people celebrating movies, which is what I love. That's true. And I make so much fun of you for that. And I also maintain that it should be three hours.

But in terms of outreach and in terms of you and I are both little kids who watched the Oscars. And because of that, we're like, I'm going to be more curious about this movie or I'm going to find out who this person is. And I think that there are a lot of people across ages who this is a springboard for them to find something else. And that is extremely important, especially if you care about movies, which despite ourselves, you and I both do. I agree. If you want to learn, watch the Oscars and then go learn more for yourself. That is my advice. If you want to learn more about this Oscar race, please stay tuned to this podcast. Later this week, we'll be coming to you live from the Sundance Film Festival.

Amanda and I are headed to Park City later. And we'll be talking about all the movies you'll be looking forward to at Sundance and maybe even some of the movies we've seen that we liked. And of course, we'll be talking about the Oscar race. Amanda, are you excited for Sundance? I am. There's a whole lot of movies we'll be able to talk about in just a few days. We'll see you then.