The Big Picture - 'Rocketman' Sings, but Will It Soar? I Exit Survey

Episode Date: May 31, 2019

We give our immediate reactions to ‘Rocketman’—Dexter Fletcher’s Elton John biopic, starring Taron Egerton. How is Egerton’s singing? How does the film handle John’s sexuality in comparison to a film like ‘Bohemian Rhapsody?’ Is “Elton John is good” the first thing Sean and Amanda have ever agreed on? Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Liz Kelley. Fresh off of Talk the Thrones, The Ringer is introducing a new live Twitter aftershow covering Season 2 of HBO's Big Little Lies. Immediately after each episode, The Ringer's Amanda Dobbins and ESPN's Mina Kimes will be going live to give their initial reactions and break down everything we saw in the episode. And to kick us off, there will be a special Season 2 preview airing on Friday, June 7th at 12 p.m. Pacific. So join Amanda and Mina for Big Little Live every Sunday on Twitter. I'm Sean Fennessey, editor-in-chief of The Ringer, and she shall be Amanda Dobbins, and she shall be a good podcaster. We are here, of course, to talk about Rocketman. Amanda,

welcome. Thank you. Are you so excited? I'm really happy. Rocketman, of course, is a biopic, a musical about the life and career and genius of Elton John and also his partner, Bernie Taupin, which is where I want to start this conversation. I went into Rocketman with a little bit of skepticism. We've been talking about it even, I think, since last year when we were discussing the Oscars. Yeah, your skepticism is well documented on this podcast. Yes, and I think there's a couple of reasons, and I'll foreground them right now before getting into the nitty-gritty of the thing. One, music biopics are very well-worn at this point.

I feel like we are quite exhausted from them, and Bohemian Rhapsody, I think, revealed some of their flaws. If you check out TheRinger.com this week, there is a great oral history by Alan Siegel of the movie Walk Hard, which 12 years ago identified some of the tropes of the music biopic and showed us just how silly they are. And yet they persist. In fact, they may be stronger than ever. So I was dubious of that. Two, Taron Egerton, who stars as Elton John in this movie, is singing all the songs. And Taron Egerton, lovely chap though he seems, is not Elton John. He cannot sing like Elton John.

So I thought this was going to be a problem. Three, Dexter Fletcher is the director of this movie. Dexter Fletcher, of course, is the man who came in to save Bohemian Rhapsody after Bryan Singer vanished. So I was dubious. Turns out I liked this movie. And I'm surprised to learn that I like this movie. I think you're surprised that I'm surprised too. I was.

I was prepared to go on like a podcast strike because you only saw it last night. I saw it a week ago. Can't keep me away from Elton John. Sure. And I really liked it, but basically didn't trust my own instinct because I went by myself and was just kind of delighted and smiling up at the screen. And I think they're billing it as a kind of fantastical movie which it very much is and it leans into the performance and the absurdity and the extraness of Elton John

and so I just I thought that I had like a nice time in a vacuum and everyone else was gonna be like what's wrong with you uh but I do think it's a lot more creative and thoughtful about the way to make a musical biopic than I expected. It is also, half of it is extremely formulaic and half of it is, I think, pretty interesting. And I'm excited to talk to you about it. There are a lot of things about the movie that I think don't work at all. And I was willing to forgive them. And essentially my review of this movie is the movie ended and I got in my car and I just fired up Elton John on Spotify. And if a movie can do that, I think that's successful. A movie like this can do that because I just got reacquainted with Elton John's whole

catalog last night and got excited to listen to those songs over and over and over again. That's very powerful. So I guess my question is, let's start with Taron Egerton. Can I just say it's Edgerton and I only know this because I've been watching a lot. It's Edgerton? It's Edgerton. He's Welsh, I believe. And I've just been watching so much adorable Taron Edgerton content this week because he is really out here promoting the hell out of this movie and doing the thing with BuzzFeed where he reads his own tweets and all this stuff. And he says, Taron Egerton. Okay. So like Egerton of tomorrow. Yes. Okay. Taron Egerton. Apologies to the Egerton clan who come from Wales. I thought he was incredibly winning. I thought his singing was very strong. My key criticism is Taron Egerton is extremely handsome. Perhaps one of the most

handsome people on earth. And well, let's just stop right here because I did not know this was your type. And this is amazing. This is so revealing. Tell me more. The way that we're introduced to him as a famous person is through the Kingsman series. And suavity, I think, is kind of the key aspect of the Kingsman series. You know, that sort of like buttoned up James Bond-esque approach to English debonair. Which I'm a huge fan of,

for the record. That's your look as well. Yeah. Elton John, with all due respect to the great Elton John, not really a looker. That's not really one of his things. In fact, he's sort of overcompensating,

and we acknowledge that by the fact that he's balding in his 20s. The fact that he's always sort of had a punch and been a bit awkward and not really known how to physically express himself. So he leans into costumes. He leans into kind of an extravagance. They're in armor and a way of compensating.

Exactly. And the movie even engages with that. Completely. And I think that's a big part of the movie in understanding his psyche and getting us on board with the story of Elton. And I can't help but look at Taron Egerton and be like, this is a handsome fellow. So I also- What's he got to be sad about? I also think that Taron Egerton is quite attractive.

And in the Kingsman movies, he really does have that international man of mystery vibe. I thought he did a good job in this of leaning into the softness of Elton John, if you will. Sure. The physical softness. Yes.

Not the emotional softness. Well, that too, actually. I think it's really helped by having Richard Madden in the film, who is doing International Man of Mystery to the point of parody. And I was both quite taken. He's so handsome and dialed up in this movie that I was almost uncomfortable. It almost turns into humor. Yeah, Richard Madden, of course,

former Game of Thrones star, bodyguard star, who plays John Reed in this movie, who is Eldon's longtime manager, and is one of the villains, one of a handful of villains that appears in the film. And he is definitely doing... It's hard to believe of a handful of villains that appears in the film. And he is definitely doing... It's hard to believe that's a real person that existed in the world. Right.

And that might be a flaw, though. I think it actually... Everyone is dialed up in this movie. So it works. But I think by contrast, Taron Egerton is a little less glamorous because Richard Madden is really playing into the suave role in this movie. So I was okay with it. Yeah, I thought it was fine, the Richard Madden situation.

So what we're learning is that Taron Egerton is your type and Richard Madden is my type. Well, to each their own, I suppose. And that's good. It's important to know that about podcasting partners. What'd you think about the general framing of this movie? Because Elton John is a person I think we know a lot about. And this is significantly different from a movie like Bohemian Rhapsody because Elton John is alive, happy, married, extraordinarily successful. And a producer on this film. And a producer on this film. It's a great point. Which is, I think, the key thing. So I think the basic story of this movie is nice, but the trite, familiar, undercooked.

Not even undercooked, but it's just Elton John wrote his own story and he is a producer in it. And it's a hagiography and it's kind of a, I admire the candor because it gets a lot into his struggles with substance abuse. That is the framing of the movie. He starts in group therapy and is going through his life and what led him to just a very tough decade and a lot of every substance abuse problem, I think, that was available in the 70s and a suicide attempt and a lot of struggles. And the movie not only shows that, but it uses it as a framing device. So I give him a lot of credit for that. And I think the movie is also somewhat candid about his struggles with being a gay man in the 70s.

It's certainly more candid than Bohemian Rhapsody, to which it will be compared. And so it's both very open and also very controlled and very, you know, the beats that are coming. And it's really, you know, it's all about parents at the end. It's a pretty simple psychological exploration, if you will. That is exactly how I felt watching the movie. I was like, even though the issues that are at the center of this movie are extremely deep and personal to him and are no doubt the most significant things that can happen to a person, the way that they're treated, in part because of the fantastical approach of the movie, but also in part because there is a tonality that comes with these movies that is like, boy, this just really feels like it's on the surface and we're not really getting beneath the surface. And it doesn't matter how strong the performances are. We can really only go so far here. And in addition to that, I think we're a little stuck because I will be comparing this to Bohemian Rhapsody a lot.

And I actually liked this movie more than Bohemian Rhapsody, but Bohemian Rhapsody, one, it obviously ends with the death of Freddie Mercury. And two, Queen as a band are a far less explored subject. And if you were alive in the 1990s when The Lion King was happening, or Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me with George Michael, or Candle in the Wind, Elton John was ubiquitous. He was everywhere. He was telling his story all the time. I just listened to a Fresh Air interview with him from 2013.

He's tremendous at telling his own story. It's a well-documented thing at this point. So there's not a lot of revelation that happens in a movie like this. Whereas with a band like Queen, it's like, well, we know about Freddie Mercury. We know he got AIDS. After he contracted AIDS, like what really happened to him? I don't know. Now, in truth, they elided a lot of the truth of that story.

I was going to say, to be fair, there's not any actual revelation in Bohemian Rhapsody. But you think there is because you're not as familiar both with that particular story. And also, I mean, this is a I don't mean to dismiss Elton John or his struggles, but like as a longtime student and enthusiast of therapy, this is like therapy 101. It's just like it's all about the parents. I get very annoyed with my own therapist is just like, let's talk more about your parents. No, thank you. So that is was my other note, which is, oh, my God, Elton John hates his parents. I mean, he really hates his parents.

With good reason. They seem like terrible parents who didn't love him. His dad abandoned him and his mother just refused to engage with and judged him for being gay. It's it's a it's such a complicated thing, because on the one hand, obviously, that is a key aspect of Freudian analysis and of much therapy in the world. On the other hand, I've definitely just seen a movie about how a boy was not loved by his parents 5,000 times. And so there's something, it's just extraordinarily conventional. And I have empathy for anybody who struggles with that. But I also, there's a part of me that's like, you're Elton John, man.

Like, you did it. You don't have to be, and that doesn't fix anybody's problems. But I think some people will struggle with that aspect of the story. Like that is in many ways, and I don't want to spoil the movie necessarily right here at this stage of the conversation, but that is the explanation for a lot of his problems. So I agree with you. And I also kind of wonder if we're wrong, because my take on this movie was that I enjoyed it. And as I said, I think it's inventive in some ways and overly familiar, especially with the parents of in some ways. But my concern was that it's not dumb enough. Oh, interesting. You think it's too psychologically complex? No, no, no, no. I think in how the music is presented, and we'll talk more about the arrangements and the jukebox aspect of it,

and the fact that Rocketman doesn't play in full for three minutes in this movie in a sing-along way in the way that Bohemian Rhapsody does in Bohemian Rhapsody. And to the extent that the appeal of the movie Bohemian Rhapsody was listening to Queen songs at top volume, this is a different experience. I think it's a more nuanced and surprising experience, but it's not the dumb pleasure always of listening to Elton John songs. That said, I think kind of the very entry-level psychoanalysis is pretty relatable. And you and I may crave more nuance, but many people may think, oh, wow, well, his parents didn't appreciate him, but I do. This is a very good point. I don't know.

And I also, by the way, I really do not mean to dismiss terrible parents. And the parent-child relationship is very complicated and we're all working through it every day. Like, I don't mean to dismiss it at all. No, I'm not either. It's not the most complex part of this movie.

Right. I think part of it is we understand Elton John to be a really complicated person. On the surface, you can look at Elton John and you can look at his work and his collaborations

with Bernie Taupin, his longtime songwriter, and, or lyricist, I should say. That's a key distinction. And say that there's got to be a lot going on with this guy. And in some ways, maybe you're right. The fact that he just has the same problem that pretty much every person I know has, which is just like, I don't know how to relate to my parents and I'm becoming them and it's killing me. And I'm fighting against that.

And on the other hand, maybe that's a good thing. Maybe people will just dig that. Maybe they'll just say Elton John is just like me. It's certainly universal. And I think that people are latching on, looking for something to latch on to in these movies. Let's talk about the music. Yes. I completely agree with what you just said.

I found it surprising how not easy they made it on us to enjoy some of the key aspects of Elton John's songography. Going back into his music, it's kind of amazing that he became as successful as he did on the one hand, because Bernie Taubman's lyrics are extremely complicated, and they are just like riddled with poetry. And it's just all French poetry from the 1800s and Americana baked into these soaring ballads. And he's positioned in the movie originally, in the early days, as kind of like a rock and roll revivalist pioneer. And that's not really my understanding of Elton John, though I really like his music. I think of him much more as kind of a classic torch singer. I think your song, Daniel, even Rocket Man, those songs are, they're ballads. And there's this interesting thing in the movie where Bohemian Rhapsody is

anthemic. Their songs are anthems. Elton John songs, while fun and beautiful, and in some cases, like Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting, are kind of like, you know, knock down the house party songs. But for the most part, it's a guy at a piano singing beautifully. And I think in order to hit those moments, you really have to lean into the schmaltz. And in fact, what they're doing is like more rock opera with these songs. It's not even musical. It's like Tommy. And in fact, of course, Elton John was in Tommy and sings Pinball Wizard in this movie.

And the choice is a weird one. I thought in the beginning of the movie when we're in Elton John's childhood, always the worst part of any of these movies when we have to look at the person who's six years old. It's the worst part of everything. It's the worst part of every magazine profile.

Cut it. No one cares. Just cut this part of the movie. No one cares. Take it to therapy. Spend that time. And then move along. But having eight-year-old Elton saying,

I was just like, get this out of here. Bring me Edgerton. Well, I don't know. Because here's the thing. That was funny. It's a choice for sure. Because within the first 10 minutes, Taryn Edgerton is dueting with eight-year-old Elton. As Elton John is dueting with eight-year-old Elton John.

But that is weird. I could feel my skin peeling off when that was happening. I was like, get me out of the theater. This is going to go so poorly. I don't know. I agree with that. Especially when you're kind of get me out of the theater. This is going to go so poorly. I don't know. I agree with that, especially when you're kind of all you have is the group therapy

and then like the eight-year-old child is singing. You're like, oh my God, what's happening? But it's also better than just rewind and now we're in the kitchen and it's eight-year-old Elton John just kind of acting out his life chronologically. Just doing a period drama. Yeah.

And I think that it is kind of playing with the conventions a bit more than I expected. So, and I thought at the end it worked beautifully, actually. Not beautifully, but I was like, oh, this is nice. I have really no time for the beginning nor the end of this movie. Okay. Everything that happens as soon as Elton John changes his name, I was like, this movie is really working for me. I'm really enjoying it.

In part because that's really when Edgerton comes into the frame. That's when I think the musical numbers get a little bit more interesting for me. You didn't like the Saturday Night for Fighting when they get to the full London musical? That is when Edgerton arrives. That's great. It kicks up and it's really great. Once they make that transition from teenage Elton playing in bars in small towns in England, touring with a rock and roll band into Edgerton grows up and, you know, it's sort of, it's

almost like Grease-esque, sort of like Grease in London. I think that's when the movie kicks into high gear. That's when everybody gets excited. That's when I think the sing-along aspect starts to hit. But first 20 minutes, no. Final therapy session at the end, no. The final therapy session at the end no the final therapy session the end is like so over the top and so ridiculous and in keeping with a certain level of elton john extraness and also specificity like his songs and these are the bernie tophan lyrics

go on for a long time and there's like too much in all of them. It's just really, it's a style of writing in general that works in these songs, but it's like, it's a lot. They're also surprisingly, they're musical, of course,

but they're not movie musical because of the complexity of some of the lyrics. So you have to kind of bend and pull at some of these songs to make them work. What did you think in general about the way that they use the songs to tell parts of the lyrics. So you have to kind of bend and pull at some of these songs to make them work. What did you think in general about the way that they use the songs to tell parts of the story the way that a musical will?

I really enjoyed that part. I thought that was kind of the smartest aspect of it because they're both using, they're using the actual lyrics and biographical things where they apply. They're also using thematic elements of the songs and even the actual lyrics and biographical things where they apply. They're also using thematic elements of the songs and even the actual melodies when they apply. And they're also not grinding the movie to a halt to do a full number. I thought the snippets and the arrangements. This is, the person who did this music is Giles Martin, son of George Martin.

And, it, the genetics are real. And that one, I thought it was very smart. I'm also a Beatles fan. And, I,

I kind, that was the most surprising part of it to me. And I still felt like it got the emotional moments. I guess your song is one of the times where it does grind to a halt.

And it was so cheesy. But I think this is just like an all-time Jamie Bell performance. Jamie Bell in this movie, I'm sorry to skip ahead, but I have appreciated him before and now I just, I get it. Congratulations to Kate Mara, like this great stuff. So I think Jamie Bell kind of can carry that your song moment. And that's also, everybody loves that song. So the thing that truly differentiates this movie, and I want to keep talking about the songs and the way that they're using the movie, the thing that differentiates this movie is Elton John and Bernie Taupin and their relationship.

And in many ways, I wish this movie was less the rise and fall and re-rise of Elton John and more Elton and Bernie. Elton and Bernie, 1968 to 1978. All the way through their sort of breakup, but then they come back together. That was by far the most compelling stuff to me. I'd never seen that before in a movie. I can't even think of an arrangement creatively like the one that Bernie Taupin and Elton John have. For those of you who don't know, and it is revealed at length in the movie, Bernie Taupin is a lyricist. He writes songs in full, these long, complex threads of poetic thought that in some cases are beautiful

and in some cases I find to be ridiculous. But for the most part, I love his songwriting. He gives them to Elton, andton who can hear, who is a musical genius and who can hear a song and instantly replay it, we're told at least, I believe it to be true, is able to write beautifully the melodies to these lyrics. And they have this unique creative synthesis and partnership is such an interesting thing to me on screen. I love the idea of two people really working together well. I love Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. You know, I love movies that do that. And that was the thing. And that's really the love story in this movie too. You know, it's really between these two guys who they make

a point to say they've never had an argument and they really love each other. They're always saying I love you in the movie like four or five times. It's very unusual to see, especially between a straight man and a gay man. And there's something so unique about their dynamic. Jamie Bell is fantastic in this movie. Bernie Taupin is a person I think people don't know a gay man. And there's something so unique about their dynamic. Jamie Bell is fantastic in this movie. Bernie Taupin is a person I think people don't know a lot about. There is a very good documentary called Two Rooms that came out in 1992 that is about their partnership. And that stuff worked so well for me. Their friendship, the happenstance,

they make a great point of showing like how magical and how not guaranteed it was that they found each other. You know, that moment when Elton goes into the record label and the guy haphazardly pulls an envelope full of songs out of a huge stack of songs and hands them to him. And then they have this sort of meet cute. And it's like, it is like, it's a romantic comedy. It's an origin story.

It's all these great things that we get out of movies. I love that stuff so much. And I found myself wanting more of it. And the only time I felt emotionally grounded in the movie is when Bernie kind of pops up and he's like, hey, Alton, I'm here to call you on your shit. I think that's the role that he's serving. They certainly have the most chemistry of anyone in the movie,

and I think it's supposed to be that way. I want a whole spinoff of Bernie Taupin and Laurel Canyon in the late 60s, because they show... They don't remark on this at all but the Bernie Tom character is just always showing up to parties with

three women in like ridiculous fringe jackets iconic and otherwise is just this really emotionally open supportive

progressive understanding character I'm just like well I would like to know more this guy comes out smelling like a rose it's amazing

Bernie Tom is probably more complicated he's been married like five times well they hinted that in the movie. It's a very interesting, that part of the movie is so fascinating to me. And like I said, I could have stood to have a little bit more of it. It didn't work as well, I think, when we were leaning into the psychology of his parents or the way that John Reed, played by Richard Madden, his manager, is manipulating him and they become lovers and then he's cheating on him,

but he's still using him. And that stuff felt very trite, even though I don't think I've ever seen it between two men. It was very similar to what was happening in Bohemian Rhapsody with the fellow who was the driver from Downton Abbey and Freddie Mercury. Oh, yes. That sort of fraught relationship that those two characters had. Sure.

But the John Reed character is just more obviously evil. Truly. Yeah. He's like twirling his mustache. Can we talk about Honky Kat for a second? Sure. Yeah. That performance?

Yeah. I was really overwhelmed by that because that's... Richard Madden sings one song and it's honky cat and he turns it into a duet with Taron Egerton and they are suddenly singing and dancing and there is a lot of the charisma uh we mentioned earlier and I still don't totally understand my feelings about it I but it is certainly memorable when you say you mean like the physical response that you had yeah i was like wow this is amazing because rich that's when richard man is a little stayed in this movie he because i think he is like i think they told him

evil and he was like i got it and just turned on the evil dial and he is also just in his clothes and his hair is slicked back he's supposed to be he's supposed to be the suit right and he's just kind of like got it suit it's very specific direction that he's going but wearing like a navy saddle row suit the entire time it's very nice suit for the record uh but a honky cat is when he actually gets to be charming. And they actually do have some chemistry in that moment. And I will be thinking about it for a long time. That's really all I have to say. I'm very happy that this applies you with that material. What other songs did you enjoy? Were there other set pieces? You mentioned that we don't necessarily get the Rocketman sing-along that I think you want.

Yeah, though I thought... That's an interesting sequence. It's an interesting sequence and I'll remember it, which I think is a sign of its success. It's kind of... That is his... Can we call it a suicide attempt? I think it's a pretty low point. And he's at the bottom of a pool.

And the child comes back, which I know you don't like, but he doesn't sing. No, he does sing. He's the one who begins to sing. Oh, yeah, that's right. The child starts singing Rocket Man. Okay. And then Elton is like, I shall sing Rocket Man. Right.

But then that does lead to one of my favorite in the Elton John kind of costume iconographies, which is the L.A LA Dodgers onesie, where he carries a baseball bat on stage and he stands on the piano. And then he's sort of singing Rocket Man to Los Angeles in full regalia and then turns into a human rocket and then explodes as a firework and then lands in an airplane,

which is probably the pinnacle of the fantastical aspect that you mentioned at the top of the show. How do you think all that stuff works? The sort of, I'm at the bottom of a pool, I'm at the height of a plane. Well, the image of him at the bottom of the pool, I will remember. So I think in terms of pure imagery and in some ways communicating the operatic elements of this, of Elton John's work visually,

it certainly gets the sense and the energy, right? I think some work better than other. I think that's also when he's being like carried through the hospital and it's kind of like a theatrical staging of him in the hospital and people are dancing. Exactly. That was, I was about to say it's a bit much, but isn't that the point?

Totally. Like, so I think, I kind of think it works in the end. It's also why I'm hesitant to say that this will be a successful movie, because I think it's interesting. And they're trying a lot of stuff. And I appreciate the different approaches. I don't know whether a general audience will, because wouldn't everyone just prefer him to sing Rocketman in the Dodgers costume on top of piano for everyone in full? I mean, isn't that kind of the appeal of Bohemian Rhapsody and the Live Aid recreation? In some ways.

And I do think it's funny. You said you sort of cringed at the your song moment where he is. No, I didn't. I was like very moved by it. Because I was like, this is money. This is how you get it. Totally. Because that is a chill song.

It gives you a chills moment. I think Bohemian Rhapsody works for the same reason. When the music is really loud and it's a song that you love or a song that stirs you, you're like, God, I'm so glad I'm in a theater and it's this loud and I'm with this many people. And not all of the songs do that. Like, I didn't think personally that the Crocodile Rock segment worked that well. Oh, I was about to say I loved it. Okay. So we can set it up very quickly.

Elton has written a bunch of songs with Bernie. They are whisked away to Los Angeles to perform a two-night, very important historical two-night set at the Troubadour where they meet Doug Weston and we get this great slice of life Los Angeles stuff. And in his first performance where we sort of like meet truly the real Elton,

the extravagant, flamboyant superstar Elton. And the first song he performs is Crocodile Rock and he begins to levitate and the crowd begins to levitate. I got it. I got the metaphor. Everyone was floating. It was an unbelievable moment. It was just a little bit on the nose for me

as far as that stuff goes. I understand that. I think that's a real Edgerton moment of the, because you see him, it is when he becomes Elton John, as you said, and you kind of see him locking into that charisma. I have a soft spot for Crocodile Rock because I was a very young Elton John fan. Like many people of our age, I came to him via The Lion King and then Crocodile Rock is kind of the next step before you get into the weird druggie stuff it's funny too because i've always thought of it as kind of a kid's song

yeah and so to see it set in the bacchanalia of la 70s la is it feels somewhat dissonant to me i think there's also one key aspect of that sequence and i did think it might as i was watching it oh no we're verging into like the bad editing scene from Bohemian Rhapsody here yes but yes exactly people's faces at the same thought but one of those people is Jamie Bell and Jamie Bell reacting to this he's is bringing the emotional like the joy and the can you believe it's happening? And he sells it. So while the editing itself is, shall we say noticeable? I think that Jamie, like the Bernie Toppin, Jamie Bell aspect of it kind of gives it an emotional resonance that I responded to. I just, I mean, I also liked that song. It's a perfectly good song. I just, it's funny when you think about all of those the the key songs in this movie so

you know honky cat being a sort of glammed up makeover segment from a movie and rocket man in which elton john becomes a literal rocket man and crocodile rock in which everyone levitates because the the power of the spirit of the song moves us and literally raises us up. You mentioned this movie may not be dumb enough. I think maybe upon a further investigation, it's not the most sophisticated metaphorical analysis of an artist. Well, it's not sophisticated, but it's also not obvious. Isn't it?

Well, it's, again, I think you and I sitting here being like, oh my God, this is so obvious. And also, like, parents, what a bummer, you know? But I think if you're going to this movie expecting just full-on Elton John playing songs at a piano and getting to have a good old time, it is different. There's a lot more theater in this. And I don't know how people respond to theater when they're expecting a rock musical, even though it's Elton John, you should know what you're getting into. It's a great point. Elton John, of course, has a lot of experience with Broadway. It's not like

he's been writing musicals and working on musicals for the last 25 years too. So there is an aspect of it that is like that. And this is a, it's a very unique collision of movie styles. You know, it's that one part biopic, it's that one part musical, it's that one part rock opera, sort of a tragedy, sort of a comedy. I, I couldn't. Sort of a feel good. Yeah. Ultimate, I mean, ultimately. Sort of a rom-com. Yeah. Sort of a, I don't, I don't know. It's, it is a real mishmash and it's exciting that a movie like that can still happen. I just kind of felt like maybe I'd rather listen to the songs at times. And that's sort of to your point that there's something much more satisfying about Amarina.

I love Amarina. I've always loved that song. Or Take Me to the Pilot. Those are two songs that show up in the movie that are two of the best Elton John songs. And there was a part of me that was like, can you just take the artifice off the song? Just play the song. Because I just want to hear this song. I get it.

Because maybe I have just a dumb lizard brain too, like all the Bohemian Rhapsody fans. I'm just like, play We Will Rock You. Like, just play the song I want to hear. No, I get it. And I feel that way. I also, I give this movie some credit because I feel it turns that impulse on its head. And my personal experience, I love Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me. It's one of my all-time favorite Elton John songs, particularly the duet with George Michael.

And wow, they really use that against you in this movie because it starts as it's a low point and Elton is in the recording studio and kind of seems to make a friend with a... It's unclear whether she's a producer or just kind of happens to be in the studio and expresses some concern. And so he's singing this duet from the... You know, she's in the booth, he's in the recording area or vice versa with Elton John. And then cut to them getting married yeah this woman of course is renata blue who is elton john's uh wife in the 80s right um that felt a little rushed well but i had forgotten that that happened and then i was like oh but my point is i love don't let the sun go down i mean i was like oh this is cute my point is I love Don't Let the Sun Go Down. I mean, I was like, oh, this is cute. Okay.

He's like made a friend. And then they cut really quickly. And I was like, oh, damn it. And I had that rush of feeling let down as you're supposed to feel let down and concerned for the character. And also this song, this song that I love and find in like a hokey, cheesy way, suddenly became kind of a bummer. It's like it is depressing in that moment. That's that shot of them outside the church with the song playing. I was like, oh, this is this is sad.

I will say, though, one of my favorite moments and maybe the only truly subtle moment of the movie is the the series of sequences that happens right after that, which is we cut to them in Elton's mansion. They both exit their separate bedrooms. They look at one another. They both descend the staircase and they sit down to have breakfast together. Renata pours herself an orange juice. Elton John pours himself a tall glass of vodka with a little bit of orange juice. He begins drinking. It's wordless. They say nothing to each other. And the end of their marriage is evident. And he just says, I'm sorry. And she says to each other. And the end of their marriage is evident. And he just says, I'm sorry. And she says, I know. And then it's clear that in the span of 90 seconds, they've done a lot of legwork that these movies sometimes take 10, 12, 16, 25 minutes

to tell. So I appreciated that we didn't spend too much time on that. And in some ways you can see even in real life, Elton John just regrets and feels terrible about what he did to this woman. Where he, I guess, just compelled her to marry him even though he was not straight. And it was an interesting story choice in a movie that otherwise I think really goes out of its way to put its finger on its nose and say like, this is what I'm trying to say. Elton John's parents were not nice to him. You know, Richard Madden's character is very evil. Yeah.

But the unspoken quality of that segment, I appreciated that. Just before we go too much further, what do you make of Bryce Dallas Howard playing like a blousy British 50s mom? If that's what she wants, I don't know. You know, it's tough because most of her work is in the first 20 minutes that you alluded to when she's playing mom to the eight-year-old. It's a little bit tougher once it's Bryce Dallas Howard and Taryn Edgerton, who I believe is eight years younger than Bryce Dallas Howard.

And, you know, they're aging her up and they're doing makeup and all that stuff. But and she has to say some pretty terrible things. I mean, as we have discussed, she is a linchpin in the emotional journey of this movie. So if that's what she wants to do, then more power to her. So you're not a big fan of this performance? Is that what you're saying? I guess I don't actually. I mean, part of it is also that the performance is so limited by kind of the one known nature of the script in this point.

There is very there is no room for interpretation. It's like parents, bad and mean. Elton needs love. That's that's the equation of this movie. So I guess that she is having fun with it, but there's just nothing for her to do. It's a pretty thankless role, I would say. Yeah, she's kind of an exposition machine.

She's like an intention machine. Were there songs in this movie that didn't appear that you really wanted to see? So Mona Lisa and matt hatters is not in this movie right favorite elton yeah no i know and i feel like i i was talking to julia litman after this movie that was also the first thing she asked and i had to be like i don't i don't think so i was very disappointed there's i can't recall if there's a big new york sequence i mean that's elton john's new york song and that's bernie's new york song and i don't i i

was very i was bummed to not hear that. Anything else that you really wanted to? Let me make a point here. Something interesting about Elton John, and this is true of a lot of rock stars and a lot of rock stars who get movies like this. I mean this with no disrespect. Elton John was only good for about five years. Now, he had huge high points, bigger high points than most of his contemporaries later in his career. The Lion King, for example, he's made a series of comebacks over the years. But if you look at Elton John's, really the peak of his powers, it's pretty much 1970, which starts with his second album, which is the self-titled album, which has like Daniel and your song on it.

And it goes right up until about Captain Fantastic and the Brown Dirt Cowboy. And then like, can you name a single album you released between 1975 and 1992 is the one? Can you name one album? No, I can name a 1994 album, which I, and my answer to this question was going to be, I also saw Elton John's Farewell Tour when I was here in Los Angeles, which was just a real treat for me personally. Thank you to my husband for that Christmas present. And he did not play Circle of Life. And he did not play.

Obviously, Circle of Life is not in this movie because it's not the Lion King. And we're getting that in two months and it'll be there. And, you know, that's a dynamite song. That's all I have to say great song so and i do think that not a bernie toppin song tim rice that's true but that those songs are a revival for elton john in the mid 90s i think those are actually musically significant yes and we do get a little bit in the movie of sort of like his down period and i think when he sings don't let the sun go down on me it's during this sort of like late 70s, early 80s, like trashy synthesizer Elton John thing.

But this just hasn't been remarked upon. I mean, no, I'm not trying to. The six albums that Elton John makes, seven albums really, basically it's like Goodbye Yellow Brick Road, Don't Shoot Me, I'm Only the Piano Player, Honky Chateau, Madman Across Water, Tumbleweed Connection, and the self-titled Elton John. Six of like the best piano rock albums that will ever be made.

That are just, half of the songs on every album are just incredible. They're beautiful. They're so interesting. They're fun. But there's a lot of desert in his songography. That's true. There's also, you catch a moment. It is a very specific style of music. And I think then the actual taste and what gets remarked upon and celebrated moves on. And I just like, I haven't listened to albums from the 80s as much as I have to those, in part because it's like six classics right in a row. It's a lot. It's a lot of music and material that you can live with. There are a handful of hits kind of sprinkled in there.

I don't want to be too sweeping with it, but it's just notable to me that the key sort of emotional moments of the movie, you know, border song, Saturday Night's Alright for Fighting, we haven't even talked about Tiny Dancer at all. Yeah. You know, Hercules, like all of these songs, they all come in a five-year period. And I would not say that the movie is necessarily temporally coherent. We don't really know what year we're in at any given time. That doesn't ultimately matter because the movie is so fantastical. But if you're a serious fan, and there have been times in my life when I've just spent a lot of time listening to Ellen John and other times where I

would not put him in my top 100 artists. But if you're going to invest your time in a biopic, you kind of want to know some of the data points. Maybe that's just my music. Yeah, I was going to say that's it. That's the music spreadsheet brain coming out. Well, and that's important. That's how you relate it is i i think you have a sense that this is like a long time ago and also in a a world far away you know it's not a real even the spectrum of the 70s it's a pretty heightened version of that you just referenced star wars we should get elton john in the star wars universe i think he would be great at it. I think he would do very well. I have one other note.

Great. So the name of this movie is Rocketman. And there's a very famous song called Rocketman by Elton John. So the famous song by Elton John is two words, rocket and man. The name of this movie is Rocketman. Like Spider-Man, like Superman. Why is this one word? And the song title is two words. Jesus. If we were going to

do copy corner, I would have asked our copy chief. I know. Here's the thing is that I think you and I could come up with a lot of grammatical explanations for this. And I don't think that anyone putting this together did. I think it's probably something to do with like Google searches. Okay. I have another theory. Yeah. they're trying to trick people into thinking this is a superhero movie but do you think anyone else is like paying attention to that i don't know it's just um maybe i'm spending too much time in in google documents but it just seems like an odd choice and and sort of intellectually meaningless maybe there is a reason i'm sure people will add us and be like actually you fucking moron the reason they did

that is xyz but i don't know what what are we doing we're meddling with the primal forces of nature here it's rocket man rocket space man yeah no i mean i know but isn't that so i don't know i i can't i was thinking about like dialectical whatever. And then suddenly like NJZ and all sorts of things. We need to move past this. I think that no one thought about it. At the top of the show, I was referencing Levon, which is probably my second favorite Elton John song. Not present in this film either.

Yeah. Which is rude. Anything else about the film that you wish there was more of, that you wanted for it? Or ultimately, are you just happy that it exists and that you had a fun time? I would be interested in a third-party version of it. Wouldn't you? I mean, it is so—and I really do think that—like, even Dexter Fletcher's third-party version of it, because I think musically and visually this is pretty interesting. I agree.

And you could feel Elton John's fingerprints all over this. And you know what? He's earned it. party version of it because I think musically and visually this is pretty interesting and I could you could feel Elton John's fingerprints all over this and you know what he's earned it I love you know congrats to Elton and his successful career and his emotional journey but it ends with like a slideshow of Elton's moments and the and his charity which is laudable. And it really does feel, it makes it feel a little bit diary entry-y and that has value. I mean, it is interesting to know how someone as successful and complicated as Elton John thinks of himself and greets the world. I do also think it's just a fascinating text. And if you could have a little distance and also the license to really comment on the life,

it would be interesting. Nine out of 10 times, I would completely agree with you about this. I think you and I are usually pretty aligned about wanting to get a little bit more truth in our mythology. I will say one of the things that this movie made me feel, and as you know, I love the 70s. I love LA in the 70s. I love the musicians and the filmmakers that were here and making things. And that generation of people, and I don't know who taught them to do this. Maybe it was people who came up in show

business in the 50s. But those people really took the lessons of self mythology to heart. And they've always sought to own their own stories and tell their own stories, even if they're not honest. And I kind of get a kick out of that. I wish that in some ways, more artists were like, you know what? I don't give a shit what you think. This is me telling you my thing. It's like writing memoir. You know, memoir in some respects is incredibly revealing and vulnerable. And in other ways, it's like, you. You know, memoir in some respects is incredibly revealing and vulnerable. And in other ways, it's like, you know,

actually there's one thing I don't want to talk about and I'm going to leave it out of this. I'm sure Elton John's done some stuff that is like way worse than the Elton John that we meet in this movie. And he gets to be kind of like a,

kind of like a, like a flawed bitch in the Elton John parlance. You know, it's kind of like, oh, but ultimately, you know, he's just trying to be a good person. And we know that deep down the whole time. There's like a glimmer in Taron Edgerton's eyes. And I'm sure that he did much more difficult things, but I appreciate that he was like,

Elton John is just like, look, I'm Elton John. I have $300 million. I'm going to make a movie about me that is the version of me that I want to see. I wonder if pop stars right now have that same foresight, power, ability to see themselves in a way that is – certainly pop stars will always see themselves in the cleanest terms, in the rosiest terms. But do they have the artistic sensibility to position themselves this way long term? I don't know. I think, yes, it's interesting as you were talking about it, because to me, it doesn't really feel like a 70s instinct as much as a social media, like very current that everyone is curating and telling their own story and only the version of this story that they want to tell right now at any given time. because I'm so used to every single like mega celebrity like Elton John and also random ass person on Instagram being like, here's me. And I'm just there are struggles. But and but and there's music and I'm serving looks and making the best of it. And I just like, I'm good. I got it.

So I because I'm so saturated in that culture, which is my choice, I would like a different type of mythologizing. I get that. One distinction would just be that for the most part, what you're talking about is an Instagram story or a hastily written screenshot blog post. Or it's Beyonce. Or it's, you know, because it's Beyonce, it's literally all of them trying to copy it. You know, I'm not a huge fan of Homecoming, for example, but I admire that in the same way that I admire the Elton thing, which is like she just wants full ownership of her story. And that's frustrating for journalists like us. But on the other hand, what you tend to get is these, you know, truly operatic explorations of self that are compelling to me.

Anything else you want to say about the movie Rocketman? Now that you've seen it, how do you think it will perform? I think fine. I think it will not be a phenomenon. Yeah. I think it's interesting that it's going up against a Godzilla movie that people seem to not like at all. I saw it. It's, you know, I think it has a lot of flaws.

And I don't, I get why people will want to show up for a Godzilla movie, but an Elton John biopic musical should be great counter-programming and it will definitely have an audience and there will be good word of mouth. The idea of it being an international phenomenon, I don't see in the same way that Bohemian Rhapsody was.

What about Oscars? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think as long as they pull the chain on this all the way down for the next nine months, definitely. I mean, there's an original song that Taron Edgerton and Eleanor are going to sing together. I think Edgerton's good. I think he's really, really going for it. And I didn't really, watching the Kingsman movies, which I think are pretty good, I never would have thought that this is the kind of work that he would want to do. I thought it was really compelling. I don't think that there's like a

screen player directing you know nomination in the offing here but and it remains to be seen I was having a conversation with someone last week and we were noting that this is going to be a very very competitive best actor race and we talked a little bit about Antonio Banderas on the show earlier this week, Leonardo DiCaprio in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. And that's just what we really know that has been seen already. So it's a TBD. I think it can compete. It probably needs to be a hit for it to truly compete.

Because one of the key storylines that I think we'll talk about as we get to the fall is there's not a lot of hit movies that are going to be at the Oscars next year. And so if this movie hits, it's got a better chance. That's my take. What do you think? I'm very curious because I can't tell. The Oscars like to repeat themselves and reward things after the fact.

So, but it also seems like the success and the Oscar success of Bohemian Rhapsody was so fraught even in the moment that I wonder whether they just will try to move on to other stuff. It's plausible. One of the things about the box office issue is this movie is R-rated. And that's going to keep a significant portion of the audience out. And, you know, Bill Simmons bringing his kids to Bohemian Rhapsody, Bill may still bring his kids to Rocketman, but I think many people in his position will not be bringing their kids to Rocketman.

And, you know, why it's rated R is an interesting conversation about the kind of what levels of sexuality we're comfortable with in this country. It's notable to me that the sex sequence is not terribly racy. It's not terribly revealing. The drugs, I think, certainly we see cocaine, but it's not really that complex or raw in any way. So it feels a little bit like, well, this is like drugs in a gay lifestyle is enough to warrant an R rating. But we'll see if that has any significant effect on the box office. Shall we talk a little bit about another significant

movie that's being released this week before we go? Please. I'm excited to hear you say significant. Or am I excited? I don't know. Let's talk about it. I have complicated feelings about this movie. This is actually a very fascinating movie release weekend for me. We talked about Rocketman and its ability to succeed. We talked about Godzilla, King of the Monsters. The third film is Ma, which is Tate Taylor's Blumhouse horror movie, which I can't say that I would recommend. And the fourth movie is Always Be My Maybe. And that movie is not coming to theaters. It's going straight to Netflix. It's on Netflix right now. It stars Randall Park and Ali Wong, the standup comedian, and it's directed by Nanachka Khan. And it's in this new tradition of the Netflix rom-com, which is a subgenre all its own.

You've been eager to talk about the Netflix rom-com. We've talked about it a bit on this show over the last year or so, but I don't know that we've ever done a full-scale analysis. What did you think of this movie? And what does it mean to this kind of growing subgenre? I enjoyed watching this movie. And I thought 90% of it was half-baked is unfair because I think it's just, it's perfunctory, right? And I think there's a little bit the origin story of this movie is that Ali

Wong and her New Yorker profile said that she would like to do a rom-com with Randall Park. Vulture blocked that, and then a movie happened, which is great, The Power of the Internet. And I would much prefer The Power of the Internet be used to make rom-coms starring actors that I like than, you know, all the other crap that it's used for on a regular basis. But it does have that slight assembling puzzle pieces aspect to it. That said, I enjoyed it. I also think that it is kind of the, like, it is the formula of a successful Netflix rom-com, and here's why. Because it is watchable, kind of low-key, and then it has one really, really memorable moment or scene. And this is where we talk about Keanu Reeves. Yeah, so before we get too far into Keanu, I think that you're exactly right.

Similarly, I saw people talking about the movie The Perfection in this way. The Perfection was the Alison Williams horror movie that was released last Friday. And I think it was the screenwriter Brian Duffield who tweeted this, but just that it was, that's a movie that you can kind of watch, but not pay too close attention to, but has a lot of memeable moments and has like a OMG this concept aspect where you kind of want to chat about it over dinner. Always Be My Baby has this fun backstory that we're talking about. It has like the familiarity of a traditional rom-com, but obviously there's a huge story with the fact that it's two Asian American leads. And the way that their Asian families are portrayed in the film and their identity is a significant part of the sort of narrativizing and the media machine that comes from the movie. So there's a lot to say about the movie before you see the movie. And then you see the movie. And I mean this with no disrespect. This movie is a sitcom.

Like, it is not a movie. It has no movie elements except for one thing, which is Keanu Reeves, who's a movie star. And Keanu Reeves shows up 90 minutes into this movie. Is it 90 minutes? Almost. It's in the third act. It's after Ali Wong and Randall Park

have had a will they won't they for what feels like six hours to me. I think it was honestly like 50 minutes. Okay. All right. Maybe it was 50 minutes.

I found parts of this movie absolutely deathless and it's really not like anybody's fault. It's a sitcom and it should just be cut into five pieces and aired as a sitcom. It was so interesting.

Even the editing is like a sitcom. They use the the establishing shots of New York and they cut through them in a way that you do like when you come back from commercial to a sitcom. And as I was watching it, I was actually wondering whether whether I got a little black mirror, but I was like, does Netflix track eye technology while they're watching? Because I felt like there were things on the screen to draw my eye back to the screen every three to five minutes, which is kind of sitcom-y in a way because you're trying to, there are a lot of things going on. Keep things moving. Yes, and also draw you back because you've been in commercials or whatever. And this movie is definitely constructed that way. It's a great point.

And I wonder whether Netflix, I'm sure that Netflix is consciously thinking about that when they are editing and putting these movies and shooting these movies. I don't know whether they're actually tracking our eyes, though, you know, maybe someone should investigate that. Yeah, and the filmmaker, of course, has a background in sitcoms.

You know, I believe she's the creator of Don't Trust the B in Apartment 23. She's done a lot of TV work over the years, so she has those sensibilities. And that's not a bad thing. You're the one, I think, more than anybody that I know that has identified the Netflix movie as this own sort of mutant form of entertainment.

It's not a movie. It's not a TV show. It lives in this amorphous middle ground of entertainment. And this is a movie that is very easy to just sort of never look at and ground of entertainment. And this is a movie that is very easy to just sort of never look at and just listen to. And you get the whole story. You don't miss out on anything.

It's true. Second screening the whole time. And we're talking about that in kind of a skeptical way, but I will also say these movies are so easy and pleasurable to watch at home. And it's really hard to watch other stuff at home. And again, I know that's on me because I am a millennial

who just looks at her phone all the time and has Amazon Prime account and just shops. But I know it's my fault, but there is so much going on. It is very, very hard because of the way our brains are literally reformatted at this point to watch serious movies at home or to kind of focus. You just, it's not how you interact with it. And they have figured out how to make things that I want to watch and enjoy watching at home. Yeah, I've always had a hard time focusing on things at home

in the same way that you're talking about. Probably worse than ever. My wife is constantly chiding me for it. And that's, it's sometimes- I mean, you are like two screening movies while also on your spreadsheets. Yes. I know that.

Let's be honest. I'm outing myself right now. I was watching another Netflix movie that is coming out in June called The Black Godfather, which is a documentary about this man, Clarence Avant, that is fascinating.

Maybe we'll talk to some of the filmmakers on the show. I don't know yet. But it's all about a very interesting person. But it's basically like a podcast. It's like a podcast with the best guests ever, like Puffy and Jamie Foxx and Quincy Jones and every significant black

entertainer from the last 50 years in this movie. But you don't have to look at it. It's just the people talking. And I felt like Always Be My Maybe was very similar. I was like, I don't really have to look at this until, I don't know. And it's funny too, because Ali Wong's comedy special, in particular, her first comedy special, Baby Cobra, I think it's called, you can't take your eyes off her. In part because she's pregnant, but also just she's so physically dynamic. She's so funny. I think she's absolutely brilliant.

And I'm so into her in general. But in the movie format... Well, I mean, and this is one of the actual flaws of the movies. They don't actually let Ali Wong and Randall Park be as funny as they are. I agree. They aren't really kind of letting them cook and doing some of like the

improv or just the looseness. It is really, it's formulaic, which is not derogatory when talking about rom-coms. Rom-coms are a formula. They have been for a hundred years, but it is that they don't get to get out of their box. I agree with that. And that's tough because Ali Wong is truly funny. And it, you know, it is a movie starring Ali Wong and Randall Park, two people we love. And then Keanu Reeves is obviously a bigger star, but Keanu just walks away with it.

Really going for it. We have to talk about this. I essentially, I refuse, I didn't want to spoil it for you because I think you can know that Keanu is in it

and then you're still not prepared for how long he's in it and the level of commitment to making fun of himself. It's what a month for him. What a renaissance. I know he never left, but I was really moved by this. So the thing I didn't know going into the movie

was that he was going to be playing himself. Yeah. I thought that, you know, there was a moment in the trailer where it's revealed that Keanu is in the movie as Ali Wong's boyfriend. And it actually makes more sense that this is like a crisis point for Randall Park because it's actually Keanu Reeves.

It's not just a guy who looks like Keanu Reeves in bad horn-rimmed glasses. I thought he was really funny. I think that this is a tried and true thing. It was a little bit of a riff on what was the Ricky Gervais show in which actors came on and lampooned themselves, extras. Yeah. It felt a little bit like Keanu does extras,

but I liked it and it was really funny. And it just gave, it supercharged the movie with some energy that I felt like it was sorely lacking at this point. And I mean, like you said, shout out to him. Like John Wick 3 and this movie at the same time he's basically the king of movies this one yes he is I think it's also very smart for the movie just because I think you watch that movie and it's like pleasant and sort of unmemorable but except they have this one and I think it's got to be like 15 minutes maybe 10 but this very long

Keanu sequence that you need to go talk to someone about and or waits till the other person has seen it and makes it instantly memorable. Or tweet about, which is what I think Netflix wants. Yes, of course. And so, and I think that is what Netflix has to do to succeed. They need like a watchable 90 minutes or 18 hours, on what they're making and you just need the one transcendent or memeable thing and then you have a quote hit would you recommend always be my baby yeah i like i i feel i feel really smile on your face no No, I mean, I had a great time. I walked out. I saw it with Chris Ryan, which was... We both laughed.

And I think... Chris Ryan loves the sitcom. Yeah, Chris Ryan loves the sitcom. He likes the rom-com. The Keanu stuff is really funny. I actually feel bad. I should have said, I hope you have seen this movie before you listen to the Keanu part because I think the surprise of it is what makes it so delightful.

It's in the trailer. People know. I don't know. But I knew very vaguely because they were... It was in the trailer people know i don't know but i knew very vaguely because they were it was in the email that keanu reeves is in this movie and then they were really protecting that secret um there was like an extra level of security beyond what is normal for media screenings for this because i think they wanted to maintain some element of surprise but it i was not expecting this level of Keanu and I think it is very fun but

yeah I think if you've got if you're looking for a way to kill two hours or something to watch it's what I like to watch at home we were talking a lot about this before the podcast started about what people like to watch in their spare time I like to watch pleasant delightful things and I think this is pleasant and delightful and I don't mean that in the Constance Wu way of this is like easy and pleasant and fun, which was like the greatest neg that has ever been written. I mean that in a positive, enjoyable way to watch. Rocket Man or OSB My Maybe, what's your recommendation this week? Rocket Man. Well, who's the next rock star that you want to see a biopic from?

Who's next on the Amanda Dobbins hit list? Oh, this is a good question. I mean, Phil Collins? Oh, good one. Yeah. Music-wise. I think we're going to have a somewhat similar conversation about the movie Yesterday in June, which I think has some of the same

struggles and grace as Rocketman, which is when the Beatles songs are playing in Yesterday. I'm like, holy shit. The Beatles are unbeatable. There is not a thing that has ever been created

that is better than the Beatles. It's literally the only thing that you and I agree on. It is. It is a uniting force. Stay tuned to The Big Picture in June. We'll be talking about the Beatles a lot. In the meantime,

hope you enjoy Rocketman and Always Be My Baby. Amanda, thank you. Thanks, John. They said, Get back, funky cat Better get back to the woods Well, I quit those days And my redneck ways

And I Oh, oh, oh, oh Oh, the change is gonna do me good