The Big Picture - ‘Roma,’ ‘The Mule,’ and the Mailbag | The Oscars Show (Ep. 109)

Episode Date: December 18, 2018

The debate over how to watch ‘Roma’ is starting to obscure actual conversations about ‘Roma’ (1:15), and ‘The Mule’ doesn’t quite make the Oscars cut (9:15). Plus, a mailbag full of questions about ‘A Star Is Born,’ up-and-coming actors, and the future of Netflix’s influence on theaters (13:19). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Liz Kelley. We wanted to remind you to check out the Ringer's YouTube page. We're publishing new original videos all the time, including a new This Is Us parody called This Is Bus, featuring some of your favorite Ringer employees like Bill Simmons, Jason Concepcion, and Chris Ryan. And on Friday, we published a video breaking down the staff's favorite moments of 2018 in sports and pop culture, ranging from A Star Is Born to the Philadelphia Flyers mascot Gritty. These videos and more can be found at youtube.com slash The Ringer. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the Oscars. Amanda, I want to open this week's show by thanking all of the listeners who I'm Amanda Dobbins. Airlines and shared the tip that you and I and the rest of the world can view the movie The Wife

on the back of a chair of an airplane. With that, Amanda, have you seen The Wife? I have not seen The Wife. Nor have I. Neither of us have seen The Wife. This, of course, is the big picture, and this is the big picture's big picture. We're going to open the show talking a little bit about two movies that really have nothing to do with each other, except that they both opened last Friday. One is Roma. This won't be the first time we talk about Roma. The other is The Mule, which is Clint Eastwood's new movie. 88-year-old Clint Eastwood.

Amanda, you have some thoughts about Roma, so let's start there. Well, I think it's established that I think Roma as an artistic achievement is phenomenal and astonishing. And I guess we haven't really... We've talked a lot. We've danced around it,

but now everyone can see it. You may see it in a theater if you choose to do so, and we should come back to that. You may also see it on Netflix, on a TV or a phone or however the hell you want to watch it, because it's 2018. And, you know, it's interesting. I wanted to talk to you a little bit about, we have been talking about it for weeks. Critics and people who have seen an early look have really been championing it. You and I have to an extent. It's very special. And now we have this thing where we have no idea how many people watched it. And did you get a sense that, like, did you see a lot of Roma chatter? I didn't. You know, I think for the obvious reason

that we've outlined, which is that this is a two and a half hour movie in Spanish in black and white. And so that whole second screen approach that we've discussed just makes it a little bit difficult. You really do have to sit down. I've been encouraging California residents to take an edible and sit down and watch it. I feel like there's something kind of powerful about that experience. Not that I have done that. But most people, when they watch TV, and Netflix is really TV, when they watch TV, are doing it as a kind of a passive act. You know, they're doing multiple things at once.

You've mentioned the amount of money you've spent. I do that often. And I think that's just true for a lot of people. It's certainly true for myself. I watched a couple of screeners last night, and I just found my phone in my hand every 12 minutes and just looking and checking the score of the Rams game because I can't not do that. And I love to watch movies. It's literally my favorite thing to do. So I didn't see a lot of Roma chatter. That being said, Roma's in this interesting spot now where it's already oddly one of the most successful specialty movies of the year at the box office, which is kind of an inversion of what they were going for here. But because

Cuaron and his team compelled Netflix to release it in X number of theaters, I think 600 around the world and probably shy of 200 in America, this movie actually made some money at the box office. Now, probably not nearly enough to take care of its $15 million investment or Netflix's big marketing budget or yada, yada, yada. But the more people who have talked about it have seen it in theaters than at home. That's certainly my impression. And I would honestly just be curious for people who are listening to this, if you did watch it at home, like, I would be very curious. Like, you know how to get in touch with us. Please let us know.

Because it does feel like that's the other nice thing about Netflix, right? Like, not everyone had to watch it this weekend. I think it will. I'll be curious to see how it rolls out over the next few weeks. And it does really feel, I think, the best way to watch it at home, partially because I have ADD and can't not do 18 things while I'm watching, but it's to make an advent of it to, you know, kind of clear out some time and be like, now I will watch Roma. And obviously the next two weeks are a bit quieter in the United States.

So maybe people will do that. I hope so. I'm interested. If you do that, let us know. Yeah, there's a couple of in the United States. So maybe people will do that. I hope so. I'm interested. If you do that, let us know. Yeah, there's a couple of things in play here. I mean, I think people should, if not an edible, maybe pour themselves a glass of wine, make a cheese plate, relax, hang out.

The holidays is always a time for me and my family where we do watch movies. I know you see movies in the theater with your family. I tend to watch them at home. And so a movie like this, oddly, I think would be effective. I just don't know if the sell, if it's going to be easy to get my brother and my sister and my mom and everybody else is going to be sitting around to sit through this, not because it's bad, but just because it's not the kind of thing you can have a social experience with. Exactly. So in that

respect, it's tricky. The other thing that happens usually is when movies like this come along and there's a very positive award season conversation around them, their box office tends to grow and grow and grow. And I have been thinking a little bit about the movie of the favorite, which I feel like is doing this masterful rollout and very slowly making a little bit more money and a little bit more money. More and more people are like, you got to see this. You got to see this. And to your point about, is there a conversation around this thing? There's much more conversation about Roma around how you see Roma than the movie Roma. And the conversation around the favorite is, did you see the favorite? It's really good. And that stuff does matter. And it'll be interesting

to know that you can see Roma anytime you want, and that weirdly makes it less special. Yeah. I did want to talk a little bit about that conversation of how you see Roma, which is still going. And, you know, we knew that this would happen. And I think it will continue through the Oscars because and I think this is a bit to Roma's detriment. It has become the movie that is the referendum on Hollywood and how you watch movies and the future of Hollywood. And Netflix is doing its best to promote it as great cinema. God bless them. Because I truly think it is great cinema. It also obviously helps Netflix's bottom line for them to do it. So they're putting a huge amount of money behind it. And something that has been

very interesting to me, there was a New York Times piece by Brooks Barnes about Scott Stuber, who runs the film division at Netflix. And it is talking about how they're trying to change Hollywood. And the other member, kind of the dissenting point of view in this piece, is the head of the National Theater Owners Association. And so, you know, so far the dialogue around Roma has been Netflix being like we're making this movie available to anyone and then a bunch of critics being like you need to see it in theaters cinema must be saved and the only way to see it is in theaters which I don't know if that's true while I enjoyed seeing it in a theatrical experience I think that just the reality of

the way people watch movies and what people can get to, it's far too complicated. But there's this interesting thing now where the other people on the side of the critics is like the president of AMC Theaters. And, you know, I appreciate that the president of AMC Theaters is trying to keep his business going. And I, too, go to AMC Theaters from time to time. They have lots of reclining seats. It's very nice. But it's really interesting to me, you know, this is a business conversation. For the past couple months, it's been shrouded in this idea of we must preserve the integrity of art and the theater-going experience. And as someone who believes in the integrity of art and the theater-going experience, and as someone who also needs to just have her phone taken away from her for two hours, I

personally believe in that. But that's not really what this conversation is. This conversation is two giant businesses kind of warring at each other. And I think that that will become a bit more clear. And I hope that Roma is not totally subsumed in that giant corporate death battle conversation, though I'm a little concerned it might be. This weekend, I think, is an interesting example of what you're underscoring, too, because what the theater owners and what AMC is trying to preserve is, of course, their bottom line. It's not the sanctity of film going as a holy experience

in the American life. It is about more people seeing The Grinch. It is about more people seeing, I don't know, whatever Disney movie is out that week. It is about kind of big top, big tent American movie going. This weekend was a really interesting collection of movies that were released. The biggest bomb of the year was released, Mortal Engines, which I mean, the less said about the better. It was just like, it was a big swing produced by Peter Jackson, and it just didn't work. And no one really understood the premise of the movie,

so they didn't go see it. Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse was released, which is an animated movie, but also a comic book movie. It was very charming, one of the best reviewed movies of the year. Mike and I talked about it on this show last week. It did good business, but not amazing. And then the other movie that was released was The Mule, which we'll talk about right now, which is Clint Eastwood's 40th film as a director. And it's a little bit more of a throwback and it is certainly counter-programming to something like Spider-Man and it is counter-programming to something like Roma. You know, all of these movies together kind of represent where American or even international film is right now. The Mule is a very strange movie that you and

I think both found extremely entertaining, though for weeks, months, we'd been kind of holding a slot open just in case it was going to fit into the conversation that we have on this show about best actor or best director or God forbid, best picture. is a horticulturist who has a difficult relationship with his family, who in an effort to make money to make amends with his family, takes a job with the Sinaloa drug cartel as a drug mule, running drugs across state lines and borders across North America. This movie's ridiculous. The story's ridiculous. It's all based on a true story in the New York Times. And it's definitely not an awards movie. And it did okay business. It made about $17 million, which is pretty impressive. If I'm doing anything at 88, I think I would feel great about that. But what do you make of The Mule in general? It's true that we were both entertained, and we saw it together.

And at some point, I think we just looked at each other and were like, what the hell is happening? And kind of giggling. But in a way, the movie is in on the joke, which is why it's not a total disaster. How about that? If it were the most self-serious version of this movie, it would be a tough look. It's basically, remember when Clint Eastwood yelled at a chair? Yes. Or a stool?

Yes. It's basically Clint Eastwood engaging with himself yelling at a chair yes or a stool yes it's basically Clint Eastwood engaging with himself yelling at a chair while also a little bit still yelling at the chair at the same time yeah he's not as the thing that I like about this movie and I did like this movie maybe not because of its design but in spite of it is it's very weirdly cheery even though the the subject matter could be very intense. And you'd think that this would be sort of like a spiritual sequel to something like Gran Torino or something, one of these intense, like scowly Clint Eastwood movies. And it's real zippy and there's a lot of music and he smiles a lot and he just seems to be having a grand old time. You know, he's like,

there's a scene with him and two prostitutes partying in Mexico. Yes. There's a scene where, you know, he's dancing with any number of people at a VFW that he has saved by dint of his drug money. And then Polka Band is playing for like five minutes of this movie. It's just a really weird, kind of fun, kind of stupid, maybe a little bit insensitive movie, the kind of which Clint Eastwood's been making for the last five or ten years. Yes, absolutely. You know, there's a few moments in the movie that are just completely off the rails, and it's hard to know if it's a commentary about this aged man and how he's grown out of a certain generation, or if it's just the makers of the movie didn't realize that something would be offensive. Right, and you better believe that the third act finds individual heroism in the character as any Clint Eastwood. I mean,

you know it's coming. It's a Clint Eastwood movie. And so it rolls to its conclusion. And that part is not as strong as the first part when he's just road tripping and singing. No. And it's so interesting when stuff like this comes along, particularly to the Oscars conversation, because like this movie is not, it's just out. There's no, it's not in the conversation at all. I think this and Vice were the two that we were kind of holding a place for maybe to a much lesser extent on the basis of Sex and Destroyer, all of which come out on Christmas. And it's just so funny how quickly the conversation can evaporate. Yes. And I feel like it has evaporated. That's true. So more on Roma to come in future weeks, though, probably not more on The Mule. Fair to say? Yeah. Okay. If you have a dad who

likes Clint Eastwood movies, then you could do worse than The Mule. Fair to say? Yeah. Okay. If you have a dad who likes Clint Eastwood movies, then you could do worse than The Mule this holiday season. Well put. Support for today's show comes from the new film, If Beale Street Could Talk. If Beale Street Could Talk is, above all else, a love story. From Barry Jenkins, the writer and director of the Oscar-winning Moonlight, comes a soulful drama about the power of love.

Based on James Baldwin's acclaimed novel of the same namewinning Moonlight, comes a soulful drama about the power of love. Based on James Baldwin's acclaimed novel of the same name, this moving story embraces the triumph of love and family. If Beale Street Could Talk is available in select theaters right now. Let's move to the second segment, which is a mailbag. Amanda, have you ever done a mailbag podcast? I've done a couple on Jam Session, mostly about the royal wedding. So this is a slightly different conversation. Okay. As you know, there are probably quite a few more questions from bros in this lineup.

Let's start with this one. It comes from At It's So Quiet. Which of the big four Oscars is A Star is Born least likely to win? What do you think? If we're doing Vegas odds, which I have no familiarity with at all, so I don't know why I said that, but... We'll talk about that in future episodes. I don't really understand gambling, but, or math. I would say Best Director. Yeah, that's interesting.

So, you know, for those of you who don't know, I assume you do if you're listening to this podcast, of course, Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor, and Best Actress is the holy quartet of awards. And I think the last film to win all four was The Silence of the Lambs. I could be wrong about that. It's a very rare occasion for those four awards all to go to the same film. I want to say Gaga. Again, I have not seen The Wife.

Yeah, that's a good point. But I feel like Best Actress, there's a lot swirling around right now. Olivia Colman and Melissa McCarthy and Glenn Close all have, I think, compelling cases here. And Emily Blunt Ascendant. And Emily Blunt Ascendant, of course, later this week, we're going to get Mary Poppins Return.

So that feels like a real kind of neck and neck scenario. And maybe Yuletia Aparicio is nominated and there's a wildcard factor there too. We talked about this category a couple of weeks ago in the show. I'm not really sure. My gut is gaga, even though one, Cuaron, obviously looming, he's won this award before. Two, it's his time for Spike Lee conversation, too, which we'll talk about later in this episode. So I don't know. You think Best Director is the best bet? Best Director jumped to the top of my mind for the reasons you just said, which is that there are two people kind of more solidly in the conversation. And I just think if the Academy is going to reward Bradley Cooper, it's going to be in actor or, frankly, in best picture.

And I think you're totally right about Gaga. It's just that that category is so fluid at the moment that I'm not actually sure who is going to win. And I have a better sense of how they're going to go on best director, or at least I think I do. I'm going to make a lot of sweeping proclamations about the Oscars if it wins all four. If it wins all four, I'm going to be like, you can edit this piece right now for me, but I'm just going to be like, we thought a lot of stuff has changed and a lot of stuff has not changed. Even if the nominees feel strong, The Shape of Water and then A Star is Born coming on the heels of Moonlight will feel like a reaction in a real way to reconfirming an old Hollywood approach to

this award show as opposed to all the other award shows. But we got plenty of time for that. Yeah. Just in the idea that it's all about Hollywood loves itself and old Hollywood stories. Exactly. Sure. Next question. At John D. Asher or at John Dasher, I don't know how this is pronounced. Amanda. Yes. Why did Bradley Cooper's quote thirst for an Oscar previously bother you? Shouldn't we want our movie stars to strive for greatness? John, thank you for your question. To answer the second part of your question, yes, we should. And I do like ambition and I do like competitiveness. And there's nothing worse than a person who just can't be bothered

in any field, not just in the Oscars. So you're right. And the rest of this question is a little bit like personal preference and like probably we should just have a follow-up with John, me and my therapist. But thank you for caring, John. But, you know, I would say there is something about Bradley Cooper's type of ambition, which again is not a bad thing, but he aspires to a very old school type of filmmaking. He really wants to be taken seriously and he wants to be taken seriously in a certain way with respected directors and for his craft. And there is something kind of rigid

about, or there has been up until A Star is Born, about how he seems to define greatness and the type of projects that he's willing to do. And I find that kind of approach often like actually inhibits creativity and energy and greatness. And he always seemed a little in a box. And I think what is so exciting to me about A Star is Born is that I didn't expect this performance. I didn't expect kind of his vulnerability in it and his range of emotion. It is a lot more open than he normally is. And so I thought it worked. Yeah, I mean, you won't get an argument from me.

He's been nominated four times now, three as an actor and once as a producer. His three acting nominations are Silver Linings Playbook, a movie that I do not care for, American Hustle, a movie that I think is like a fun experiment that doesn't fit together, American Sniper, a movie I didn't get at all that was a massive hit, and then he was nominated for Best Picture as a producer on Sniper as well. Maybe part of the reason is just that we're not as into those movies. I think you're a Silver Linings Playbook fan, right? You know, if you're making anything that resembles a rom-com, I will look past all

manner of sins, including a very questionable treatment of mental illness, which, yeah, that one has not aged well at all. So yeah, I got swept up in it, as did a lot of people. Only one more Star is Born you ready yes this one comes from pack attack is there any validity or merit to criticizing a star is born because it's the fourth iteration and or third remake of the film no i i yeah that's this is what we call a leading question by the the way. One, every movie that Hollywood makes is a remake of some kind, even if it's not in title or particular approach. This is an iterative medium and people are kind of always, you know, retelling the same story. So in general, I don't think that should be held against something. I think there's something about how emotionally and intellectually involved you get people.

And obviously, the reason we opened with three Star is Born questions is because we were really emotionally and intellectually engaged in this movie. I also just think remakes can be an art. I like the little things that were changed in this movie. I like the things that Cooper decided to keep from the previous films. You know, Ben-Hur was a movie in 1927, and then it was a movie in 1954, and it won Best Picture in 1954. This isn't new, nor should anything really be held against it, I think. I mean, would you agree with that? Yeah, so literally nothing is original at this point. I mean, you know, humans have been making art for thousands of years.

And there are just really like four stories. So I would agree with that. And I think also... Check these cave paintings. These are stars born cave paintings. But, you know, this is one of the reasons that I kind of tend to like genre films or films that seem other people might find, quote, formulaic. To me, there is a comfort in a set of rules and then be once you kind of have an established playing field, then you can see how someone changes or imagines or you actually kind of have the terms on which to understand and connect to and reinvent the art, which I think is really exciting.

And it kind of creates a common ground for people. So I don't hold it against anyone at all. If you do anything well, you're winning. So many people do things poorly, and this was done well. And there are plenty of other things to criticize. The question makes me think about what my favorite kinds of movies are, which is different from whether something should be a demerit because it's a remake. But the things that I think I'm most blown away by and feel furthest away from something that I could ever

conceive of myself even doing are movies like the movies that Spike Jonze makes, where whether you like Spike Jonze or not, often when he makes a movie, I have the feeling like I've never seen anything like this before. And that is increasingly uncommon in Hollywood for a million reasons, not just for creative reasons, but financial reasons and corporate reasons. So there are still people I think who we probably don't necessarily celebrate enough for taking risks or trying something new. I think that's valuable. I think that there probably should be a category at the Oscars that is a little bit like innovative achievement or something like that, that would create something, a new texture to the award show and be able to acknowledge

that, you know, even if you think her is like a kind of cloying that the way that he's crafted her is unique. And by the same token, maybe there's a lot in her that feels like a Hepburn and Tracy movie too. So ultimately they're like, like you said, no idea is original. Let's go to the next question. This is from at Belgrano underscore N. Here is a new Oscars award category, achievement in multiple movies. This year's winner is Brian Tyree Henry.

This should be a shared gender category. Who could have won in previous years? Amanda, have you given this some thought? I have. What's on your mind? So, you know, we'll just get the obvious ones out of the way. Last year would be Timothee Chalamet. Lady Bird. Thank you. And Call Me By Your Name. Yes, I just blanked on Lady Bird, my favorite film of 2017. And Brian Tyree Henry is in two movies this year, If Beale Street Could Talk and

Widows. He's also on an excellent television show, Atlanta. He's probably the best actor on TV. And I do kind of feel— Hold on. You're doing Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse Erasure. He's also in that film. Okay. All right.

All right. Okay, fair enough. But I was just—I do think that—and, you know, this happens in the Oscars in all categories where people's work, a vibe around a person or a body of work does get rewarded. So I'm assuming that we're crediting Atlanta a little bit in rewarding Brian Tyree Henry. He's great in all the movies that he's in. He's wonderful. More Brian Tyree Henry.

So I was going to nominate Adam Driver. Good one. Who I think has not really done, I mean, all the release schedules are weird. But he's always been, for the last, what, six years? He's been in one great movie and also in Girls. Yes. And I think he is one of the greatest actors of his generation. So that jumped out to me. He has, I've talked about this on podcasts before, Noah Baumbach, J.J. Abrams, Jeff Nichols, Jim Jarmusch, Martin Scorsese, Noah Baumbach again, Steven Soderbergh, Rian Johnson, Spike Lee, and his next film is with Terry Gilliam.

That's pretty good. Maybe work with a woman, but nevertheless, obviously he worked with Lena. Exactly. So he's pretty great. And he's routinely in the mix there. Just from a historical perspective, I think it's always fun to look at who was nominated multiple times in the same year, which is something that deserves to be celebrated. We just did The Firm on the rewatchables recently. And we did have this conversation a bit about Holly Hunter, who, of course, won in 1992 for her performance in The Piano and was nominated for six minutes of screen time in The Firm. I would contend that her performance in The Firm is better than her performance in The piano and was nominated for her six minutes of screen time in the firm. I would contend that her performance in the firm

is better than her performance in the piano. There's some other interesting people on this list. It's notable to me that between the years of 1944 and 1982, no one was nominated for two acting performances in the same year. And then all of a sudden, 82, 88, 92, 93, 2002, 2004, 2007, all had multiple performances. I know you're a huge working girl person.

Yes. Are you a Gorillas in the Mist person? You know, not as much. Okay. Sigourney Weaver, of course, in 1988 was nominated for two different awards, one, zero. I don't think Sigourney Weaver's ever won an Oscar. A shame. Not a lot of men here. Well, I was going to say, it's nice that these

women are being nominated, but this is basically an indictment of the fact that there aren't that many good roles for women. Or celebrated actresses. Yes. And so when you have someone actually doing work, they tend to be nominated twice just because there's not that much to pick from. I think that that is the case with Sigourney Weaver, Holly Hunter, the Queen, Emma Thompson, Julianne Moore, Cate Blanchett. This is a very predictable group too. Yes.

You know, there's not a lot of surprise, maybe just because there's not a lot to choose from. The men on this list from recent times are Jamie Foxx from 2004 when he was nominated for Ray

and weirdly collateral, which I think is like a good performance, but I don't know. And then Al Pacino in 92 when he won for Son of a Woman and gives a much better performance in Glenn Ross. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's a fun idea for a fake Oscar category.

We could probably come up with about 500 more fake Oscar categories in the next couple of weeks. Right. There are also a fair number this year. Like Emily Blunt would definitely be in that category. Oh, no question. That's a great one. I would like to put Jesse Plemons in that category. Jesse Plemons is just a lifetime achievement showing up and stuff. And I'm like, yes, this just got better. So he's in Vice. He's in Game Night. Does he in a third film as well? He's not in a third film, but he is in The Post, which I rewatched on cable recently. It's on HBO right now. Great rewatchable. and it's very fun when he shows up i'm all about

clemens yeah let's go to the next question at justin patristic says if you could buy stock in one up-and-coming actor who would it be and what director would you like to see them work with you know we just talked about adam driver he's a bit of a no-brainer to me the first person that sprung to mind for me is someone that you and wesley and i discussed last week who was hayley lou richardson who i saw is gonna be in like a very sappy romantic drama about a woman with a debilitating disease did you see this it's coming out in march i don't know the name of the film it looks very hokey and not great and not like what i want to see from her not that you know right i hope she has success. But she strikes me as somebody who has worked with

really interesting filmmakers. Basically, M. Night Shyamalan, Koganada, and Andrew Bajowski in just the support of the girls in like our last three films. It's a pretty cool roster right there.

Yes. Who would I like to see her work with? Hmm. Maybe Tamara Jenkins? I'm very interested to hear what Tamara Jenkins does next. Okay.

After Private Life. Yeah. And she seems to have a real, I get the impression that Tamara Jenkins has I'm very interested to hear what Tamara Jenkins does next after Private Life. And she seems to have a real, I get the impression that Tamara Jenkins has a daughter in her late teens, early 20s. And Haley Lou Richardson can evoke a certain kind of feeling about being in your late teens and early 20s really well. So that's one. Why don't you give us one? So Haley Lou was also going to be on my list. Thank you for that. And we already talked about

Jesse Plemons as well but just put him in more things definitely I just added someone to the list last minute Florence Pugh

yeah who gave one of the best performances of the year in Little Drummer Girl an AMC miniseries that Sean refuses to watch I haven't seen it

so please at Sean and tell him to watch it seven and a half hours all in three days too much not for me you can watch it at your and a half hours all in three days. Too much. Not for me. You can watch it at your own pace. Make a movie.

That is what technology allows you to do. My take is make a movie. They did. It's just six hours long. Okay. Anyway, I think that she is extraordinary in that. Obviously, that she was in Lady Macbeth, and that was kind of her breakout role. She is hilariously in the film Fighting With My Family coming out in March.

Where are you on Fighting With My Family? I haven't seen it yet. What I'd like to do is have a crossover pod with the Masked Man show when that film comes out. Fighting With My Family, for those of you who don't know, is based on the true life story of the wrestler Paige, the now retired female wrestler Paige, who is a British woman who was raised in a family of British wrestlers. I think this movie was written and directed by Stephen Merchant. That's correct. And produced by The Rock. Sure. And has been kind of floating out there for

about 12 to 14 months. May or may not have been finished. And it's finally coming out later next year. And she plays essentially the titular Paige character. I'll watch it. i don't know i'm i'm interested in kind of wrestling culture writ large and also particularly how hollywood sees it so i'm interested i the trailer came on before creed 2 and i turned to my husband we were in

the middle of watching little drummer girl i'm just like what's happening but it still seems a bit winning i i'm open to it sure but anyway in terms of people I would like her to work with, this is actually already happening because Greta Gerwig makes dreams come true. And Greta Gerwig is directing Little Women. And Florence Pugh is playing Amy March. And Saoirse Ronan is playing Jo March, which if you are at all familiar with Little Women means that they're just going to go at it on screen. And I just can't wait. I didn't realize she was in Little Women. Yeah, she's Amy.

Oh, wow. Okay. It's who is indefensible as a character, but she's going to make it great. I'm so excited. Florence Pugh is great. She's also one of the best parts of Outlaw King. Who else?

I wrote down Thomasin McKenzie, who's in a movie that we haven't talked too much about on this show called Leave No Trace, though it has gotten some love from the Critics Awards. Debra Granik, the filmmaker, has won a handful of regional critics prizes for Best Director. Thomasin McKenzie is a very young actress

who portrays the daughter of a man who essentially tries to live off the land played by Ben Foster. It's a really, really complicated movie and a complicated performance by her. She's essentially a complete unknown. I believe she's Australian and is a real like

you got a bright future kid assuming she gets the right agent because she's really, really talented. Who would I like her to work with? This is going to sound stupid,

but hang with me. I feel like she'd be really good in like a Star Wars movie. You know, she's like clearly very tough, but also very empathetic

and those movies need more good actors and it'd be cool if she continued to make wonderful independent films. I, I'm a huge supportive and she, she should work with Kelly Reichert, for example, that'd be great. That'd be a perfect followup to leave no trace,

but to go a little left, it feels like, I don't know what, whatever movie, Benioff and Weiss, whatever series they're making for Disney plus just put Thomas and Mackenzie in it. It'll automatically be better. I'm open to that.

Okay. I have two more that I want to throw out really quickly. Shoot. I'm pairing them together. Glenn Powell and Lana Condor. Mm-hmm. Netflix's rom-com stars of the summer. You want a super-duper crossover from To All the Boys and Set It Up?

Yeah. So these people are both people who just kind of like those are movie stars on the screen. They have that charisma. They kind of pop off. And I love that. And we don't have enough of those. And I would like them to work with Steven Soderbergh because I need Steven Soderbergh to work with movie stars again.

Great one. Yeah, there we go. I love that. Okay, let's go to the next question. At Ketchup Provided, fantastic handle, what were your most disappointing movies of the year and why? Ones that you had high expectations for, but the film just didn't deliver. It pains me to do this because I've spent the better part of a year defending this movie to you. And I thought it was fine. This is fantastic. What's it going to be? I don't even know what it is. Ocean's 8. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know,

that would be high on my list. I just, I wanted that movie to be directed by Steven Soderbergh and it was not. And it was a little flat. And when you have that cast, it should have been my favorite. They had that cast, and it was literally about a heist at the Met Gala. This should be my favorite movie of all time. And it's not. And that's admittedly, those are really high expectations, being my number one movie of all time. But the space was there.

My heart was open and it was just a good airplane movie. Yeah, that was upon reflection. Like I will never watch that again. Like not even on cable. As much as I like, I talked about Anne Hathaway on the show last week and how charming I found her in the movie. But there's kind of like a dead air quality to the whole thing. For the record, I have watched it again. Like we rented it on vacation because my husband hadn't seen it.

And it served its purpose perfectly well. But it's not Ocean's Eleven. I have a few on here. Just looking at my list, my spreadsheet. Let's go through a few of them. Assassination Nation was probably one of the noisiest movies coming out of Sundance in January. It was bought for quite a large sum of money by the distributor Neon. And boy, it just doesn't work. Wow. It is noisy for sure. And it is messy and I thought really stupid. And I thought the director, Sam Levinson, had some interesting

ideas about kind of what it's like to be a teenager in this time when you could be hacked and selfies and nudes and the intensity of like sexual desire colliding with social media presence in the 21st century but it kind of felt like it was made by somebody who was my age and not somebody who was 21 and had some like closeness to that experience and woof like i really i wanted to like it because it has tons of style and it's very antic and it's trying to do something new. I thought it was a complete mess. You know, The Predator, that movie kind of sucked, which is kind of shocking because it's a Shane Black movie. And I love The Predator series.

I'm even into the Aliens vs. Predator movies. Like, count me in. And I thought it was just incoherent in a way that, you know, I think Andrew Greta Darrow and Chris Ryan talked about it on the watch. I think they found some charm in the incomprehensible nature of the movie. I will say Chris Ryan came into my office one day and just recited the plot of The Predator for about 15 minutes

and that was quite entertaining. Yeah, and that movie was kind of saddled with some really unfortunate kind of behind the scenes production stories too about a person who worked on the film who had been charged with a kind of a heinous crime and a person who worked on the film who had been charged with kind of a heinous crime. And the people who worked on the movie didn't know about it. So it was already kind of getting out into the world behind the eight ball.

But just the movie itself, just as a movie, bummed me out. One more. This one stars your girl, Claire Foy. It's called The Girl in the Spider's Web. That was disappointing to you. Yeah. You had high expectations yeah i'm not including much movies that i just didn't think were very good so fede

alvarez i think is one of the most interesting horror directors in the world and he made don't breathe which is was a sick like literally a sick sickening but really well made and effective um movie two years ago one of the surprise horror hits of that year. And so I was like, okay, this is interesting. This is a way to kind of differentiate from David Fincher to get, let's be less slick. Let's be a little bit grimy here. Let's like get to the core of the kind of grossness

of the Stieg Larsson creation. And they just didn't do that. What else is on your list? This is again, a movie that's not a failure, but high expectations. I'm a person who has hopes and dreams, and I invest them in things like Mary Queen of Scots because Saoirse Ronan and Margot Robbie are going to go head to head. And some of this is on me because I've watched a lot of movies about Scottish history this year and apparently didn't pay attention and never

studied it in school and so didn't know what was going on at any point more than two that's a lot okay and there's a lot of text on the screen and all of them explaining stuff and i just really didn't feel like i had all of the knowledge that i needed to know what was going on which is on me but you know in the way i was just talking about i can't wait for the florence pew sersha ron of head-to-head I was very much looking forward to that with Saoirse Ronan and Margot Robbie I like both of those actresses I look forward to every performance and I think they're both quite good in this movie but maybe this is the fault of history they don't really get to spar literally or figuratively in the way that I was hoping that they would. And, you know, I do look forward to those big showcase roles for actresses, because as we were just discussing, there still aren't as many of them as they should be.

And it didn't quite get there. I admired the movie and didn't think it totally worked. And Josie Rourke, the filmmaker, is a theater director, and she's obviously put some kind of theatrical approaches into the film. I'd like to see her with something a little bit more modern and see what she can do with it. It was not a train wreck at all. It just kind of didn't quite meet my kind of stand expectations. Let's go to the next question.

This is from at JP Shank. So this is relevant to what we were just discussing. How do you envision Netflix's relationship with movie theaters playing out over the coming years? If Roma wins Best Picture, will that increase the odds of continued theater runs? Candidly, I don't know. I don't have a real feel for this at all. I think it's plausible that they have just officially softened their stance and that now if a filmmaker with enough gravitas,

like Martin Scorsese, when The Irishman comes out, demands that it be in 500 theaters, that he gets 500 theaters. On the other hand, maybe if they win Best Picture, that somehow affirms their cultural and business strategy. And that means that all great films will eventually just be on Netflix. We read in that Rick Barnes piece that you cited earlier that, you know, they made 90 plus movies this year

and they're going to make more next year. So they kind of control the game. I mean, they're literally making three times as many movies as any major studio. So I don't think winning anything necessarily changes their calculus. Yeah, I only think it changes their commitment to making those, not changes, but underlines and encourages their commitment to making those movies.

And obviously, the way that we watch movies is not done changing. And I think the whole theater versus Netflix battle will rage on. You know, are we going to be going to Netflix theaters in five years? That seems like a possibility. Definitely plausible. You know, I think that there are a lot of different ways

that this could play out. I just don't think that Roma is the end of anything. It's only the beginning. I agree. David Amoyal asks, does the fact that Black Panther has been on Netflix,

sensing a trend here, for so long help their Oscar chances? I don't really think it matters. I don't think that Oscar voters are using repeat viewings to make choices. And I think it's possible that its long-term shelf life is hurting it in a way that it wasn't with Get Out, where Get Out's long-term shelf life allowed more and more people to see it. The difference is that Get Out was a very small movie that was very well-marketed and found a big audience. Black Panther is by its nature a big movie and everybody knew about it. We literally did an Oscar preview last year in which we forecast that Black Panther would be in this conversation 11 months ago. So it kind of doesn't matter to my mind. What do you

think? Yeah, I just, to what you said, I don't think it's a rewatch audience that is voting for Oscars. Also, like, frankly, if you don't think that Netflix has figured out the algorithm, so they're just serving all of the Oscar voters Roma all of the time, then you're not paying attention. So I don't really know how many Oscar voters are being bombarded with Black Panther. And that's one of the advantages that Netflix has in its algorithm. It can distribute right to you. So yeah, I don't really think it's a huge factor. Yeah, I agree. Next question. At Tyler Bagley 09 wants to know, Amanda, film school enthusiast. Yes. What's your favorite shot of the year? It's the Arc de Triomphe from Mission Impossible. Oh, good one.

Yeah. That's such a, we've, you know, he jumps out of a plane and he fights in the bathroom and there's the cliff, all the more exciting things. But that was, I think, when I just started kind of applauding myself in the, it's extremely memorable and exhilarating and beautiful. That's a good one. Adam Naiman has written about the best shots of the year on The Ringer today. I would encourage you to check that out. I believe one of the shots that he has would be my pick, which is Ethan Hawke's character in First Reform pouring the Pepto Bismol into the grain whiskey. Yeah. I've written about this a couple of times. Just like the clearest evocation I've ever had, particularly as a person who basically like

just always feels kind of unsettled digestively. There was something powerful about that image of like trying to solve all the pain with, with poison, you know, that, that, that somehow thinking that taking, and that's obviously the, it's not the most subtle of metaphors, but it is definitely the, the, the subtext of the whole movie yes and just that you know that pink swirl inside that brown liquor it's not novel but i'd never seen that before so shout out to paul schrader as always at serena ed chris i think that's how we'll do it wants to know how come there is so little conversation on christian bale for vice arguably the best working actor on a planet thanks a lot thank you you to you, Serena.

Serena, what timing? The embargo's up and we're here to talk about Vice a little bit. Amanda, why do you think there's not as much? I'm not even sure I agree with the premise of the question. Yeah, you know, we haven't been talking about it a lot because Vice is not out yet. People still have not seen it. I mean, you and I have, but it's not available to the public. I will say that there has been a spot reserved on all Oscar prognostication

lists, basically including our own since August for Christian Bale. And I think that that will certainly continue. I think he's a lock for a nomination and could win it. But in terms of conversation, I think it's just because no one's seen the movie yet. Yeah, I think he is, if not the frontrunner, basically neck and neck with Bradley Cooper. And we're going to talk about him a lot. You know,

I think it's partially because there's nothing new to say about Christian Bale doing a crazy transformation because this is just what he does now. Like, he is the new

Daniel Day-Lewis. I think he's pretty marvelous in this movie. I heard him recently on Variety's interview show and you're reminded that he's pretty marvelous in this movie. I heard him recently on Variety's interview show, and you were reminded that he's this Welsh guy who's very, I thought he was very charming and very funny and very loud

and having a great time talking with Sam Rockwell. They're clearly great friends, and you can see what kind of the vast difference between the Chaney character and his real-life personality, which is not necessarily how we grade great performances, but he is totally immersive in this movie. And there's a certain kind of actor that just loves a majorly immersive,

transformative project like that. And that's what this is. Yes. One thing to note, and I think this will be interesting, we will talk more about Vice next week. And for the moment, we can just say that it got a lot of negative reviews.

I don't think you and I totally agree with that. Yep. The tenor of the summer of the reviews has been it wastes this transformative Oscar-worthy performance by Christian Bale. And I think the most interesting thing about this movie is actually that Christian Bale is doing kind of your traditional Oscar. I will gain a lot of weight and become this other great historical figure or not so great historical figure in the case of Dick Cheney. And he is doing that. And then the movie built around it is not that at all. It's extremely untraditional.

So it will be interesting to kind of watch the conversation around those two things in tandem. And I'm curious how the extraness of Vice affects how people receive Christian Bale's performance. Yeah, I will just say on the subject of Vice, I'm not surprised by the reaction, but I'm surprised by the lack of interest in an untraditional form that a lot of critics have had. Especially you and I see every damn movie. Like when you see every damn movie, you become used to a sort of familiar narrative structure. I was kind of delighted to be utterly removed from that. Anyhow.

Likewise. We'll talk more about it. We'll get there next week. Go see Vice. I've just been informed that the person who asked this question about Christian Bale is Serenaded Chris and not Serena Ed Chris, which is completely reasonable. Apologies to Chris, presumably.

Second to last question. This comes from at Wilford Lawrence. If the Oscars had a non-Golden Globe ridicule level best comedy category, what would be nominated this year? And which comedy star has won the most awards in the last hypothetical 10 years? So this is an interesting question because it's not about what is the best comedy of the year or the best comedies of the last 10 years. It about what this category would have nominated if it were at the oscars okay which is of course different so yes amanda what's the best comedy nominated this year i have to assume that game night makes it in right i think that's on the outskirts yes i think it's like right it's like in the number five spot it's traditional enough or familiar enough while still like being funny and people actually enjoyed

it there was a real word of mouth phenomenon with it but it still it hits the beats it's recognizable as a studio comedy which in itself is a feat and people like to reward things that make money here's what I think the category is. You ready? Yeah. The favorite, eighth grade. Oh, so you're... Yeah, I think that all that stuff goes in here.

Okay. And it would really complicate best picture the same way that it does with the Golden Globes. Right. Now, it would be not as ridiculous, but I think it's the favorite, eighth grade, game night, sorry to bother you. And I think maybe like something like book club.

Okay. And then, so I don't understand how this category is working. Can you walk me through your process? sorry to bother you and i think maybe like something like book club okay and then so i don't understand how this category is working can you walk me through your process or green book depending on how they choose to register themselves okay so is everyone allowed to run or crazy rich asians i was gonna say crazy rich asians we're gonna get to that in the next segment too probably by these rules vice also would be in comedy unless it's submitting in drama perhaps and mary poppins i don't think so but it doesn't make it okay so is it like foreign film where you can run in both categories or do you have to pick i don't know we're in charge what do you want to do well i'm in the list you just gave me what are the rules that you're operating under i think you can submit

in both but it's unlikely that more than one movie would get into both okay and you think the favorite will get into both i think so yeah and wins okay that's if you accept that the favorite is a comedy you know i spoke with our boss bill simmons recently he watched the favorite and he said he did not realize it was a comedy so you never can tell um i think to some people that's playing as a a chamber piece and that's it um yeah, I think that this would ultimately become a category where if there's a big, I don't know, if there's a big

Farrelly Brothers movie, for example, and the Green Book situation was not happening, this sort of over-the-top, big breakout blockbuster hit comedy

that would go there. You know, this year, the two movies that were most off-sited were Blockers and Game Night. And those movies were, they did okay in 70 million,

you know, they did decent business, but I don't think that they were like burned into the brains of the American movie going experience. So you'd probably have to get creative. This does feel like where eighth grade would go, even though eighth grade to me is pure horror. Yeah.

I was going to say, I think that it would probably be slotted as a comedy because of Bo Burnham and his identity and the fact that there are some funny moments. Right. I don't know. They shouldn't do this. That's my takeaway. They should just put them in Best Picture.

No subcategories. Put everything in Best Picture. Please recognize the range and potential of film. Thank you. Okay. This is the last question. We're going to use it as an opportunity to pivot into our next section, which is The Big Race. We mentioned a little bit about Best Director when we talked about Roma and Bradley Cooper.

If you had to, this comes from Mars Colors. If you had to describe the criteria the Academy uses to evaluate the best director category, how would you describe it? Hmm. I wouldn't do that. But if I had to. Sure. You know, the straightforward language that I believe the Academy uses is just outstanding achievement in directing. Directing is a really amorphous thing. I obviously spend an enormous amount of time talking to directors on the show trying to understand what it is that they do. Some directors are highly technical.

Some directors are highly emotional. Some directors are highly technical. Some directors are highly emotional. Some directors are both. You know, Cuaron famously, I think, is one of the most celebrated movie makers of his generation because he clearly, and you can see it in this movie, which he has not only written and directed, but also literally shot. He's his own cinematographer, which is very difficult to do. And almost no one does it other than like Paul Thomas Anderson, Steven Soderbergh, a handful of other people who we think of as geniuses. But he has incredible visual style and technical know-how and also is this majorly feeling, thoughtful guy. And you put those two things together

and then you get to say, this is what a truly outstanding directing achievement is. But that doesn't, I don't think that that has to be the only way to find the answer. Yeah, well, there are a couple things. A friend, the Slate critic, Willa Paskin, profiled Carrie Fukunaga earlier this fall,

and she was describing his style of directing, and it's a line that's really stayed with me. It's athletic, that there is a reward for the technical aspects that you mentioned, but also it has to look like an achievement. There needs to be something almost physical about it. You have to have something to show for your work. And I think that that is often something that's rewarded in this category. Technical aspects for sure, but also just the showiness. It's like I can actually see what you were directing and you made it happen. And so that's certainly one aspect of it. The other thing is that there is a real legacy element

to this award always. There's a lot of, it's his, and almost always it's his time. And it's a body of work instead of like this specific film. That's not always the case, but you do see examples of that, like Martin Scorsese and The Departed being the most famous one.

We might have that this year with Spike Lee for Black Klansman. I'm not totally. That's nice. Directing is a body and a work. The Oscars in general are that, you know, in many ways, Al Pacino, who we mentioned earlier, winning for Scent of a Woman instead of like, I don't know, Dog Day Afternoon, one of the great movie performances ever.

This happens routinely. There are probably 15 Spike Lee movies that are better, more provocative, more interesting to me than Black Klansman. But if he wins, it's because Spike, frankly, should have been nominated 10 times instead of zero times. So would people really grouse about him winning? I don't think so. There's no true answer to the question that Mars Colors is asking. We can just talk a little bit about the other people.

You mentioned the fact that there are often no women in this category. This year, again, if you look at Gold Derby, you'll find that with the exception of Deborah Granik and Marielle Heller, who directed Can You Please Forgive Me? They just don't acknowledge women. There's not a lot of women working. I wrote about this last week. There's not as many opportunities when women do get the opportunities. It's often in projects that feel unworthy and feel like almost like designed because they're like, we need a woman director.

You can almost like sense an executive over managing the situation. I don't want to besmirch a movie that is coming out soon, but I felt like there is one coming out later this year that fits that criteria. We can discuss that later. So rude. Debra Granik's movie is beautiful

and so interesting to me and so like difficult, but there's virtually no chance she's going to be nominated for an Oscar. None of the other people on this list are the usual suspects. It's Ryan Coogler, who I hope is nominated, who's wonderful. Damien Chazelle, who is a master, even if people aren't seeing First Man. Adam McKay, who I think actually could potentially suffer a little bit because of the reviews. I don't think Bale's going to suffer. I don't think that Vice is even going to suffer necessarily, but I think he might. Peter Farrelly, that's a can of worms. Barry Jenkins, phenomenal. He's an interesting example of the conversation that we're having about technical know-how versus feeling. It was so

interesting. I mentioned a few weeks ago about that conversation between him and Paul Thomas Anderson about getting a great close-up. And our producer, Bobby, just saw Beale Street this weekend and he said, wow, there's a lot of close-up. And, you know, our producer Bobby just saw Beale Street this weekend. He said, wow, there's a lot of close-ups in that movie. You know, a lot of like head-on into the camera close-ups, which is a big part of Barry's style now. You can't underestimate how actually hard it is to make an image like that beautiful. That is literally, at the risk of being highly pretentious, art.

And Barry does that great. I think people recognize that. Yes, and also to make it a part of your personal style so that you can just recognize a Barry Jenkins movie. That is achievement. Totally. Yorgos Lanthimos definitely got a point of view, definitely got a style. Indeed. People want to recognize that. We talked about Spike, talked about Bradley Cooper, and of course, Alfonso Cuaron. It'll be an interesting race. I'm not sure if it's going to tell us too much about the future of movies, but it's interesting. Let's head to the next segment, Stock Up, Stock Down. We're going to keep this one fairly brief. The SAG Award nominations came out last week. I wouldn't say I was shocked by them.

I tend to think that there's a case to be made that the SAG Awards are actually even more frivolous and kind of lightheaded than the Golden Globes. Yes. But let's focus particularly on Best Ensemble, which is the only category that they give out that the other award shows do not. Some usual suspects, some predicted spots. There were two spots that I was a little surprised to see. One I was pretty happy about, one I was a little confused by. I was happy to see Crazy Rich Asians acknowledged here. Yes.

That was a big successful Hollywood story. Not the most meaningful movie in the world, but the fact that it was made is meaningful. And I think we both liked it. I had a great time. I rewatched it recently. Really holds up. I think there's maybe an outside chance it helps it with best picture. I still think it's probably at like number 16 out of 10. Yeah. The other one is Bohemian Rhapsody. So I don't think I walked out of Bohemian Rhapsody thinking what an incredible ensemble. I remember thinking Rami Malek is amazing. This movie is bad. Bohemian Rhapsody is a juggernaut, Amanda.

I don't know if you know this. This is one of the most successful non-franchise movies that I can remember. It's up over $600 million internationally. It's approaching $300 million in America. This is kind of insane. It's about Queen. Queen is a great band their music is wonderful but that's the thing and people just want to hear queen songs and also

queen songs are like international they you don't need subtitles or you don't need anything recognizable you just need to go hear queen songs really loud which i think you and i agree is really the only appeal of that movie it is and it's great and i i love those songs and i've been listening to more queen than i would have ever expected. I saw this stat recently that Bohemian Rhapsody is now officially the most streamed song made in the 20th century on the streaming platforms. Fascinating. However, this movie was made at least in part by Bryan Singer. You'd think that it would be fully poisoned and somehow it's not. The awards thing is confusing to me, even though I think Rami Malek makes a good performance.

You know, this movie reminds me a lot of Mamma Mia, which also just made a ton of money and has a lot of appeal for much of the same reason, because people will just go sing along to Mamma Mia songs and like to watch Meryl Streep dance around. One of them is being heavily considered for awards and one is not. There's one's about men and one's about women. That's fine. No big deal. But I do not understand the

Oscar thing, you know, beyond what I just said. The ensemble, my only guess here is that I was rewatching the real Live Aid performance and man, do they actually look like Queen. They do. It's really, they really do look like Queen. And I guess people are just like, wow, they look like Queen. I don't know. I believe it was Mark Harris who tweeted the SAG award nominations across the board. They all start with the first letters of the alphabet. It's like A, B, and C, which you have here. So, you know, I really don't know what to make of them at all. It just seems like they saw Bohemian Rhapsody and were like, yeah, he did look like Brian May. Why not?

Yeah, it's like when you've already know you have a passing grade. So when you're taking your last final and you just fill in A on every single answer in the Scantron sheet. The other nominees in this category are Black Panther, which I think will be nominated for Best Picture. Black Klansman, which I think will be nominated for Best Picture. And A Star is Born, which will almost certainly be nominated for best picture, Black Klansman, which I think will be nominated for best picture, and A Star is Born, which will almost certainly be nominated for best picture. If Bohemian Rhapsody gets in there at the expense of, I don't know,

what's, what's not the favorite necessarily, but like, like at the expense of Black Klansman, it's going to be fucking weird. Yeah, that's, that's really bad.

We'll have to wait and see. Let's talk a little bit about what we're going to be talking about next week. There's a few movies, as we mentioned, on the basis of sex and vice. This Friday, there are two very odd movies coming out. Have you seen either of these movies? I have not. Okay. We don't have to say too much about them, but I'd like to at least plant the flag on Bird Box, which is the name of a movie yeah it's coming out in 2018 starring sandra bullock arguably the greatest one of our greatest movie stars maybe the greatest movie star i don't even you know i don't want to overstate things but a wonderful actress who

was misused in oceans 8 and now has this movie bird box which is a netflix original this kind of circles the square on where we open the show suzanne beer the danish filmmaker uh directed this story which is kind of a Twilight Zone episode. People have been describing it as a quiet place, but blind, where if you see things,

you can be taken away by some sort of mysterious creature. This is like a really bad M. Night Shyamalan movie to me, and there have been bad M. Night Shyamalan movies. I'll be curious to see

how people receive it. This also was a movie that people were holding a slot for at the end of the year. Yes. And they're not holding that slot anymore now that we've all seen it. The other one is, I've written down here, well, motherfucking welcome to Marwen. I can't believe this is a movie. Can I, may I just share a quick anecdote? Please. Go to a lot of screenings, including some at like, you know, AMC Theater. Shout out to AMC, we mentioned you earlier. Sometimes I go to your theaters and you often have the large cardboard

cutouts to promote movies. And they had one for Welcome Tomorrow, which I basically had not paid any attention to before this. I was like, I don't even, it's word salad to me. And then it was Steve Carell in his kind of cartoon form and all of the characters in their cartoon form and I honest to god thought that Steve Carell was in a Bratz movie like I really like what looked at it and I was like hey is Steve Carell in a Bratz movie and then I just assumed Welcome to Morrowind was a child's movie for at least two weeks and then saw the trailer. And goodness. Here's what Welcome to Morrowind actually is. It's directed by Robert Zemeckis, who people may know from Back to the Future and Forrest Gump and more recently Beowulf and The Polar Express. And basically what the movie is is a fusion stylistically of something like Forrest Gump and something like Beowulf, which is this kind of digital motion capture animation style. But the story itself is based on a documentary that came out

about 10 years ago called Marwen Call about a man who experienced a dramatic case of PTSD after he was assaulted and the world that he creates for himself after that assault to kind of escape his trauma. it's a very complex small sensitive documentary and i have no goddamn clue why anyone thought this should be like a dramatic film with steve carell it is one of the more interesting misfires i've ever seen i don't think i don't even think it's necessarily bad i just think it is so strange and unusual in ways similar to the mule but with like none of the kind of rollicking like isn't this fun feeling i ways similar to the mule but with like none of the kind of rollicking like isn't this fun feeling i had while watching the mule it is just kind of a crazy left turn

that doesn't make any sense and i can sense all the people who are involved in it kind of lightly abandoning it and stepping back from it there's a part of me that is happy that movies this odd are getting made because we spend so much time being like, oh, where's the thing in the middle for adults? This is like not for adults. It's for aliens. And there's a part of me that wants a lot of people to see Welcome to Marwen

so I'll have more people to talk to about it. But there's also a part of me that can't in good conscience recommend Welcome to Marwen. I don't think I'm going to see Welcome to Marwen. I think that the time

that you just came to my office and sat in it for an hour to just tell me about Welcome to Marwen was more than enough. It is a wild experience. You were not invited and you showed up anyway. Hopefully, we'll be having more wild experiences on this show. Amanda will be back. Even though it's a holiday week, we're going to do a show next week. So please tune in then where we'll be talking

about On the Basis of Sex and most specifically Vice. Amanda, thanks a lot. Thank you.