The Big Picture - ‘Scream VI’ and the Scream Movie Rankings

Episode Date: March 17, 2023

Sean and Amanda are joined by Chris Ryan and Sean’s sister Grace to dive deep into ‘Scream VI’ and break down the entire franchise. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Chris Ryan and Grace Fennessey Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Erica Ramirez, founder of Illy and host of What About Your Friends, a brand new show on the Ringer Podcast Network dedicated to the many lives of friendship and how it's portrayed in pop culture. Every Wednesday on the Ringer Dish Feed, I'll be talking with my best friend, Steven Othello, and your favorites from within the Ringer and beyond about friendships on TV and movies, pop culture, and our real lives. So join me every Wednesday on the Ringer Dish Feed, where we try to answer the question TLC asked back in the day. What about your friends? Get groceries delivered across the GTA from real Canadian superstore with PC

express shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC optimum points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about Scream. We have two guests today. Noted stab enthusiast, Chris Ryan.

He's back on the show. Hi, Chris. Here I am, man. What's your favorite scary movie? It might be this podcast by the end of the time we record, because the second guest is my little sister, Grace F. She's back on the show. It's been almost four years, three and a half years since you've been on the show. How are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. You're here on spring break from college. Yep. And you're a film major now.

Yes. And you're a film major? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. I'm a double communications in film. Okay. That's incredible. We also are really going to have to revisit the clueless opinion if you're going to actually major in film. Okay, but it's fine. It's a long podcast and a long spring break and we've got time. Grace, if you're film and communication and you're doing a film podcast, can you just get your diploma right now? Yeah, I hope so.

That'd be great. Can this be your thesis project? Grace told me a couple months ago that Scream might be one of her 10 favorite movies of all time. So I thought that this would be an awesome opportunity for you to be back on the show

in addition to just visiting and hanging out with me for the week. Before we get into Scream though, and we're going to talk about Scream 6, its incredible success, the entire franchise, we're going to rank all the movies in the franchise, etc., etc.

But there were two big bits of news that might seem completely bizarre to grace who may not give a shit about them but for us they were huge the first bit is that there was a news report in the Hollywood

Reporter that Quentin Tarantino's 10th and final film which I guess is being called the movie critic is forthcoming and that there is a script all I can say about that is

great go is I know some stuff about it and script. All I can say about that. This is great. Go. Is I know some stuff about it and I'm not allowed to say anything about it. How did that feel to say that? It felt very powerful. Okay. Based on what I know, I don't think all the reporting is accurate. That's what I'll say.

Okay. That's what I'll say. Just be smirching journalists. No, no, no. A very 2023 thing to do. It's hard to gather information. I respect journalism. I, of course, my degree is in journalism. We employ a very 2023 thing to do. It's hard to gather information. I respect journalism. I, of course, my degree is in journalism. We employ a great many journalists here. Sometimes

I practice journalism. Right. Not recently. Are you doing it right now? How dare you? But I'll tell you what, it sounds like a very exciting project, and I'm sure we'll talk about it a lot more in the future. The second bit of news, and for the DobMob, a huge piece of information, which is that the proposed $150 million Nancy Meyers Netflix rom-com starring Scarlett Johansson, Michael Fassbender, and Penelope Cruz. And Owen Wilson. And Owen Wilson. Who's really, that's the one driving up the quote. Yes. You know.

That film has been scuttled. It has been canceled. It has been pushed off of the Netflix slate. Do you want to say why? That film has been scuttled. It has been canceled. It has been pushed off of the Netflix slate. Do you want to say why? Well, reportedly because $150 million is too much money. Too much money for the kitchens. Too much money for the glam.

And she couldn't go below $150 million. Nancy Meyers. And I'll tell you what. We certainly respect an artist sticking to their ideas. And she feels it's very important to have $150 million to make this romantic comedy. Amanda, foremost Meyers enthusiast, how are you feeling? I'm hopeful that it lands somewhere else. It's saber rattling. Yes.

So this was a deal between Netflix and Nancy Meyers. Grace, where are you on Nancy Meyers? I have no idea who Nancy Meyers is. Okay. Something's got to give. It's complicated. The Parent Trap? Okay.

Yes. Yes. Okay. Director of all of those. Got it. One of the only women directors to ever make more than $100 million at the box office, which is just important in terms of sometimes you got to spend money to make money. Anyway, it was canceled at Netflix.

Apparently, Netflix would only go to $130 million. Nancy wanted more than $150 million. $80 million above the line was a number that I read, which is just a lot of money for Michael Fassbender's racing career. Can I just say one thing about that? Yes. It's worth keeping in mind

that for a Netflix movie, all the money is up front. Yeah. So there's no back end because it's a streamer. They were essentially spending $80 million on four or five pretty big movie stars

and Nancy Meyers. Right. And then like 70 whatever. Exactly. I think that's important context. I completely agree. And then like 70 whatever. 70 million. Exactly. I think that's important context. I completely agree. And I also, Sean, you made a kitchen reference. And in what I think was mostly a respectful way, maybe not. So Grace, if you think of those films, you think of the beautiful set design, production design, the kitchens, the hydrangeas, the cashmere things.

Everything looks very nice. In many ways, Nancy Meyers is responsible for the success of both Airbnb and Crate and Barrel Pottery Barn, West Elm. Many businesses riding on her visual language, but a lot of people like to make jokes about how do kitchens really need to cost $70 million. And I would just like to say, yes, they fucking do. Number one, let people make money. Number two, I always want things to look expensive. Number three, please look at the rest of the rom-coms that Netflix is pumping out with not $70 million spent on the kitchen. No, they're shot on GoPro in Toronto with three TikTok people you've never heard of. Shit, we didn't talk about Your Place or Mine,

the Reese Witherspoon-Ashton Kutcher rom-com on this. Grace, have you seen it? No, I kept seeing the trailers for it. Right. I heard it from my wife's room, and I was like, what's going on in there? And she's like, this might be the worst movie I've ever seen. It was definitely the worst movie I've ever seen.

And in part because I've sat through a lot of bad CGI in my life and in the past year. And even Ant-Man. And Chris, which I know really upset you. Look, you love great art. The CGI Brooklyn Bridge in Your Place or Mine is the most offensive thing I've ever seen in my entire life. I also hear that Your Place or Mine suffers from the LeBron James, Lily, AT&T commercial thing where you're like, these people were not in the same room when they were shooting these scenes. Well, I mean, they weren't. They're all on FaceTime. Oh, okay. Let me tell you, that's the concept. They try to do a Sleepless in Seattle thing where Reese Witherspoon and Ashton Kutcher, who are the two romantic leads, are not in the same place until the end of the movie. But because they already know each other, they're

friends, they're just like FaceTiming the whole time. And there is just absolutely no chemistry. It's incredibly disappointing. Also, they make Reese Witherspoon be like the LA clog woman, and it's really disrespectful styling-wise. To LA clog women or Reese? Honestly, all of the above. The lowest point in the movie for me was after establishing that Reese Witherspoon's

wardrobe is not fair to her, then wondering where she bought a pair of jeans because I was like, oh, I'd like those jeans. Anyway. Did you take ketamine before this podcast? I just realized you hadn't said anything in three minutes. And she's talking about clogs and FaceTime and green barrel. We have guests here.

You started it. You threw to me. The really disturbing thing about your place or mine is that Ashton Kutcher looks absolutely fucking incredible. I have never been an Ashton Kutcher person. And the glow up is astonishing. But they spent all of the money on Ashton Kutcher person, and the glow up is astonishing. But they spent all of the money on Ashton Kutcher. My head hurts right now. I wonder if the relative perceived lack of success of that movie is informing some of this decision making around the Nancy Meyers movie.

Sure. I also heard a rumor that they're taking the $150 million and they're giving it directly to Gareth Evans to make movies in which Tom Hardy punches dudes in the throat in a dungeon. Congratulations. Is that true, Chris? Have you heard about that? That's true. I'm going to be honest.

I don't think it makes sense for Netflix to spend $150 million. What makes sense for Netflix, though? I mean, that's the problem. What's the math here? But I do think it could work for another studio. This is the, I think that the big tragedy of this

is that this probably gets made for a much more reasonable number if it's for Universal or Paramount or Warner Brothers. And they're like, it's going to be a summer

rom-com with these great... Maybe one of those studios will pick it up because the other thing that the script of the movie is like basically an adaptation of Nancy Meyers' life.

It's about a screenwriter who has to team back up with her ex-husband slash or ex-partner slash screenwriting partner, which is based on Nancy Myers's real life. I would like to see it. I believe, and maybe this is not the last of it. Maybe this is negotiating in public and for a new studio. Grace, this is important. So we opened this show, which is ostensibly about a hip, young, cool movie starring cool young people

by talking about a 55-year-old filmmaker and a 65-year-old filmmaker. Do you care, genuinely, about Quentin Tarantino or Nancy Meyers and their work?

She just found out about Nancy Meyers. But she knows the film. She's seen The Parent Trap. Yeah, no, I, not that I don't care, but I don't go that deep into, like,

the director stuff. Like, I'd be like, oh, I'd see that movie. That sucks it didn't get made. Yeah, there we go. See don't care, but I don't go that deep into the director stuff. I'd be like, oh, I'd see that movie. That sucks it didn't get made. Yeah, there we go. See? I'd see it. On the record, the future, the next generation wants Nancy Meyers' movie to get made.

Will you be chipping in for the budget? Sure. How much would you be willing to give Nancy? Do you know how when you go see an independent Irish movie, there's 37 production companies listed in the beginning? It would be incredible if this Nancy Meyers movie comes out

but it's like Airbnb Crate and Barrel Dob Mob I mean that is how a lot of movies are funded The Republic of Ireland

National Lottery Should we pivot to Scream? Yeah I wish Nancy well I wish Quentin well as well of course Scream 6 directed by the same fellows who directed

Scream 5, which is technically called Scream. Matt Bettinelli-Olpin and Tyler Gillette. They were actually on this show to talk about a previous film back in 2018, I want to say. It's written by James Vanderbilt and Gary Busick. James Vanderbilt, very interesting screenwriting career.

Wrote seven? Yeah. Oh, no, wrote Zodiac. He wrote Zodiac and also wrote Murder Mystery. So he's having an interesting career. Wrote seven? Yeah. Oh, no, wrote Zodiac. He wrote Zodiac and also wrote Murder Mystery. So he's having an interesting career. Scream 6, Ghostface is back. And this film is set in New York.

Is it? Well, we'll get to that. The core four from the last film are back. And they are back to explain the premises of horror movies while also being hunted by a killer in a ghost face mask.

We're going to spoil this movie as we're talking about it. I think it would be weird to have a discussion about this movie without spoiling it. Maybe we'll wait until we get a little further through the discussion to share full spoilers. But, you know, Scream movies are whodunits as much as they are slashers and pure horror movies. And so who is the killer or killers in the case of scream movies um is always at the top of mind i'll start with a very obvious question grace what

do you think of scream six i honestly did like it i fully believe nothing will ever compare to like the earlier scream movies but i did enjoy it for like what it was did you feel similarly about the last scream movie where you're like this is good but not the classics there are movies i'm like oh i'm really excited to see it but i'm not not like, oh, I'm going to love it. It's going to be my favorite one. It's just like, oh, I like the franchise, so I'm going to continue watching them. Sierra, how do you feel?

I really enjoyed watching it. As a Scream fan, I had some issues with some of the stuff that happened in the movie, but I'm overall really kind of charmed by what Radio Silence has decided to do with the franchise. Dobbins? I had a great time. The classic Amanda response.

I agree with everything Grace said. And I have a lot of generation specific questions for Grace about this new generation, which is like they're in college in this installment and you are also in college. So I'm curious how much of my relationship to it and to thinking the older ones are better. I agree with Grace is because they're better and how much of it is because I'm like really old and this is like a new generation. I guess it's worth mentioning that the new sort of batch of screen movies that the Radio Silence guys have been directing is following the sort of plot point, not plot points, but the settings and beats of the first original franchise. First film is a high school movie. Second movie is a college movie.

The third movie. Third movie will be a Hollywood movie, maybe. We'll see. Yeah. And then four is kind of this in-between movie. It's the last Wes Craven one, but doesn't have like, it's not rooted in necessarily the Sidney Prescott stuff or the Carpenter sisters stuff. This movie, more than even the last film, I think is trying to be in conversation

with the previous four in part because Courtney Cox is back as Gail in this movie. And also Hayden Panettiere is back as Kirby from Scream 4. And so there's this effort to kind of bring the entire franchise together. Notably, Neve Campbell, not present. Sidney Prescott being the leading character

of the first three and a half films. I guess, like, Scream is a very odd franchise because it's simultaneously a very meta commentary on everything that's happening in horror movies, but it's also like a really mean slasher movie. It's really violent. This movie I thought was

exceptionally violent, even by Scream standards, which I love. I'm really into that as a horror fan, but I was kind of surprised by how successful the movie was in part because there are a couple of killers that are just like straight up evil you know like people hanging from ladders and smashing their faces into dumpsters and that kind of extend beyond the just typical like ghost face stabbed somebody in the chest stuff yeah did that did that strike you at all did it feel like any significantly more violent or did it just feel like it was a you know similar to the franchise i felt like it was similar to the franchise maybe a more violent than like the first movie but i feel like i'm gonna have a hard time

like not spoiling things i mean do your best it's okay there have been warner warnings okay well like i feel like there wasn't as many kills that were significant yeah yeah movie. So like, that felt different. Do you feel like you have a thirst for blood when you go into these movies? Or like, I need a main character to be killed to be satisfied?

Like, I don't want a main character to be killed, but so expected. Like, I was going into the movie, I'm like, Gale is going to die.

I didn't want her to. And my friend and I were holding each other's hand like I'm thinking she was going to die and I didn't want her to, but it was expected. And then.

I got the impression just hearing some comments from you on the watch that you felt similarly like the stakes were maybe not high enough here I think it was this funny juxtaposition of like incredibly gory and

incredibly sweet where it's like everybody gets stabbed 30 times and then it's like but they still have a faint heartbeat no they don't. And I, I think in general, like, Jenna Ortega is awesome.

She has been stabbed like 19 times in two movies. Like she would be dead or like physically traumatized, emotionally unable to like go outside. Like, it's really funny that they're just like, yeah, I'm going to a frat party. It's like,

no, no, you're not. You're wearing like a full Kevlar suit. So yeah, these guys have like, it's funny that Wes Craven, who is obviously a horror master, was a little bit more delicate

about blood splatter, about, you know, like it was more about the chase than it was the kill. The Radio Silence guys are way more about the kill than the chase, but people live through the kills.

It's an interesting juxtaposition and i wonder whether that's kind of like forgive me like a little bit of the marvelfication of it where they're like let's just make sure we if we want to bring courtney cox back we can that's what it is it's the maintaining the franchise's power by not totally severing the cord to the past which is dicey because one of the best things i thought about five was they killed dewey like they killed david arquette and that was that worked i thought like that sequence was like scary and effective and i was like all right they're not fucking around here like they're making a real true blue high stakes horror movie this time around were you gonna say something though about like the the thing about i don't know i still i i know what you mean about this being more over the top violent.

But to me, like the original Scream with like Drew Barrymore, like hanging from a tree. Oh, yeah. And the garage door. Like that stuff is gnarlier than in like this. Maybe it's more visceral is what I mean. Visceral. And maybe by being slightly over the top, there's a lot more of it. But to me, it's like slightly funnier or slightly less affecting just because it's like, you know, just blood squirting everywhere. I think it's hard to say anything about it without referencing specific moments in the movie.

But yeah, there was one character that got stabbed so many times, like blood so many times. I'm like, no, I didn't want them to die. And at the end, they're like, hold on. We got one more. Like, they're in there. Like, there's no way like yeah i don't think you want to be like straining credulity too hard for the audience because then otherwise you kind of like the sequence in particular that you're referring to there's a very really really well done sequence out on a subway

that features a very very violent attack it might it might be the best sequence in the movie i think you could debate whether that is and we probably should. But the violence that is issued to the person on the subway, which is what you're referring to, is really, really intense and feels final. And that person is ignored by all other

passerby. So it's not like they're getting immediate medical attention or anything. Right. It's like, oh, you're just going to bleed out on the subway track.

I was actually talking about a different character, but the fact that you saw another character Oh, you're talking about something different. Yes. I mean, that's amazing.

But that's two characters that just got pointed out that like should not have survived. You know, it's ironic because it reminds me like if you think about horror franchises

historically when someone is like stabbed a hundred times but survives it's the killer. You know, it's Jason. It's Freddy. It's like they are the indestructible forces.

And this goes towards the mechanics of horror movies where I never question Ghostface face-planting on a marble kitchen island and then getting up immediately and being like, I'm ready to go.

But for some reason, can I say it? Can we start? Yeah, let's start spouting it. When Chad gets stabbed by two Ghostfaces 37 times, and I'm like,

oh, right, of course. I'm like, that guy is not getting up from that. It's really important to me, like, stick to medical science. My one friend that I went with, he was like, I don't know if I got kicked in the face, I'd be out. Like, just like kicked in the face. And they're getting brutally stabbed to be like, all right, we'll keep fighting.

Yeah. Well, that was always a really, a fun aspect of the Scream movies was Ghostface being vulnerable and getting brutalized and constantly tripping and getting kicked in the balls by Sydney. And the vulnerability of that character, I think, made it slightly more relatable

and more like it was actually happening. Yes. And we're now veering a little bit too far in the other direction. But I thought the Marvelification point you made was really smart. And I think that's also related to the severity of the kill versus whether the movies are gory or not now.

Yes. There is an expectation of laugh lines when a big kill is happening. Like, I don't know. What was your theater going experience like, Grace? Like, were people laughing along to the moments? Did you feel like people were genuinely terrified? My theater was kind of empty. Oh, shit.

But me and my one friend who like have seen all the movies we were very excited and openly reacting to it where there was stuff that was funny i kind of calling out one of the actors um i can't think of his name he played the cop i cannot think his acting was killing me i i i like him like i like him a lot acting in that movie was so rough to me. I just... So there's... He went for it. Yeah, there's... Well, he went for it and also... I mean, I know we're not...

Are we spoiling this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We are officially spoiling the film now. If anyone... You can complain to me. We're 20 minutes in here. Okay.

Some of it is because the reveal is that he's in on it. So, you know, he is extra over the top. Everybody goes, like in most screen movies, famously like Oliphant and Laurie Batcalf

really go bonkers at the end of their, at the end of Scream 2. 2, yeah. And they are like, just like, here's Johnny! Like they're really going for it.

So I think that there was like, it's consistent with how it works. But Mulroney was definitely like, I've never seen him do that there was like, it's consistent with how it works. But Mulroney was definitely like, I've never seen him do that before. Well, you have. It's so tricky. So for us, Dermot Mulroney is like a rom-com star, like a star of the 1980s. We've seen him a lot. My best friend's wedding, Grace. Watch it. Okay. Or a police lieutenant in other things. But he's very stoic and it's just like, oh, get to the bottom of this but you're right Chris I mean

that's also true of Skeet Ulrich and Matthew Lillard it's also true of Emma Roberts in Scream 4 like when the killer is revealed Scott Foley in 3 Scott Foley like they go way over the top

in their performances Dermot Mulroney from the moment he shows up in the movie is like I'm fucking weird like there's it's kind of like he's telegraphing it too much

and it made the movie a little bit too predictable now I didn't predict exactly what the formulation of the killers were and how the family was related I couldn't figure all that out but as soon as he showed up

in the movie I was like there's no way he took this job just to be a cop like there's just no way he took this job for that reason and I think the performance style

that stuck out to you is because he's almost trying to signal to you like there's something off about this guy and they're trying to make it a trauma story because he's lost his son and he's moved to New York to be like there's something off about this guy. And they're trying to make it a trauma story because he's lost his son

and he's moved to New York to be closer to his daughter who is the roommate of the key characters. It also occurred to me as I was watching the movie that Sam and Tara are really the stars of these movies now. You know, Melissa Barrera and Jenna Ortega. And Melissa Barrera's star has been rising and Jenna Ortega is like basically the most famous person under 25 in Hollywood right now.

I mean, between Wednesday and these films, she's gotten so huge. And you. And you. A number of other things. It's pretty awesome. You guys do such an amazing job documenting like the different stages various actors and movie stars are in. Like she has the biggest movie in the country and she's on set. She's hosting Saturday Night Live.

Like that's very old school. Like we did it. Yeah. Yeah. What is Jenna Ortega to you and your friends and generation? She's hosting Saturday Night Live. Like, that's very old school. Like, we did it. Yeah. Yeah. What is, like, what is Jenna Ortega to you and your friends and generation? She's just huge right now. Like, she's everywhere.

The ones, when she was a part of Wednesday, that, like, Yeah, that was the thing. And it's like, to your point, like, she is the biggest thing in the world right now

and those are old school hallmarks. But, like, she is famous because of Wednesday. But Wednesday got huge in part because of things like TikTok. So, it's like a convergence of kind of new media and old media coming together to create like a genuine mod I'll be curious to see if she kind of retains a modern movie stardom she has like a scream queen identity right now which is an interesting thing about her she's sort of leaning into this very flat affect she has to be this like new Winona Ryder

and she's gonna do Beetlejuice 2 it sounds like did you see that Grace that she signed up for Beetlejuice 2 I didn't see that but that doesn't surprise me

where she's literally Winona Ryder's daughter in that movie so that would be she's also just shorter than Hayden Panettiere which I didn't think

she's tiny this is an issue very very short in terms of her like being able to keep up it's just really funny because at that party specifically, she's a garden gnome. Yes.

It is just like she's walking around. Everybody is four feet taller than this person. Also, in the final standoff in the kill room or whatever, the height relativities were such that like ghost face was spoiled a little bit by who like how tall that person was relative to jenna or taken i was like well it can't be hayden because this person is like this much taller and they did i do think the continuity was correct there in terms of the height this was a huge criticism of the last scream movie particularly the do we kill scene, because Mikey Madison, the actress,

was thought to be the person behind the Ghostface mask during that kill, and that Ghostface was a lot taller than Mikey Madison. So this is a problem that the movies sometimes have. I actually wrote a note about that when I rewatched the movie. I was like, that's so unrealistic that she's able to take Dewey down.

He's a grown man. Yes, and an ex-police officer. Oh, because Jack Quaid is like not doing it. He's getting in the elevator. Yeah, Jack Quaid is in the scene. So the fact that it's like the girl,

like it's not. It's a challenge. One of the things that struck me personally watching Sam and Tara interact is, you know, the premise of the story is they've left Woodsboro.

They've gone through this traumatic series of killings in Scream 5. And Tara is going to college at what I guess is like NYU or Bard or something I think it's supposed to be Columbia Columbia this is uptown I I have so many notes okay but we'll come we will get into the New York of this film um but this would and and and Sam

follows her and she moves to New York as well and this would be like literally if I followed you and moved to your college town I thought about this so much yeah like they have a big age difference like working at a bar and hanging out. And it's just like, Grace, you can't go to the party. Also like living with her college roommate. Like I'm pretty sure they're all living together. Yes. Yeah, they are.

Imagine if I was living with you and your roommates. Nah, you'd get kicked out. Yeah. Like that's not, like that's so un- I think Sam's supposed to be like 26. But Melissa Barrera in real life is like 34. Uh-huh. So there's like a

Sean's just sitting on the couch waiting for you guys to get home updating his spreadsheets like hey guys I programmed a great night of films

where are you listening really closely to the lyrics of Phoebe Bridgers to better understand you and your friends that part of it is I think that also

strained a little bit of credulity to me I get wanting to be close to your family of course, especially after you've been stabbed multiple times by a man in a ghost face mask. It's also like, Grace, if he were bringing all of the ghost face history with him, wouldn't you be like, nah, stay in California?

No, get your own place. Yeah, exactly. I'm just like, you're not protecting her. What do you guys think about the cast in general? Because it now feels like Jasmine Savoy Brown and Mason Gooding, who are Chad and Mindy, the twin brother and sister, are here to stay. Sure. Obviously, Barrera and Ortega are here to stay.

They refer to themselves as the core four and have a kind of handshake that indicates their centrality to this franchise now. Grace, I'll start with you. Do you like them? Yeah, honestly, I got a little connected to them in this movie. Like probably in the Scream 5, I wouldn't care that much. Now after that being in 2, I was like, oh, I actually kind of like these characters. Like when Chad and Mindy almost like died, I was like, oh, I don't want them to. Like I do like them now. They're, once again, nothing like the original three, like Dewey,

Gale, and Sydney, but I do like them. They're good for this new setup. Yeah. I think that the thing that they're missing is that uh sydney and gail and dewey were often at odds and so there was like an internal tension about gail exploiting sydney about gail exploiting dewey and these sort of yeah a lot of punches thrown yeah and i think that that actually added a lot to the tension of the films as horror movies whereas watching four people who really like each other and constantly get along and support one another is not as, I think, dramatic. It's fine. It's entertaining. The banter's fine and everything.

Mindy is doing the Jamie Kennedy, the rules of the franchise stuff. I get what they're doing there, but there's a couple of moments in this movie where I think it's like, could they turn on each other? Or like, could you basically turn around and say, like, I didn't sign up to be best friends with people who are going to be constantly targeted by serial killers. So like we're going to distance ourselves from you. But that just doesn't work for the Scooby Doo-ness of the movie that they're trying to create.

What did you think? Grace, are these people cool? Yeah, they are. Like they have they have charisma. Like they're just so young. That's what it. They are. Like, they have charisma. Like, they're just so young. That's what it is to me. Like, I just can't tell. I'm just like, I feel like a grandma watching you guys, and I hope that you're safe. Except for

Melissa. I hope that you're safe. I mean, you're watching this right now. They're not safe. Except for Melissa Barrera, who I'm just like, you're old and you need to move away and let Jenna Ortega live in peace and find her own life and go to the party. But I can't tell whether these are college students I would want to hang.

I wanted a lot more of the Melissa Barrera looking for Mr. Goodbar plot. That was very interesting. So what is the other two? Have you guys seen that show? Yeah. Josh Segarra, who plays our kind of boyfriend in this movie. Danny, the nicest man ever. in this movie Danny the nicest man ever

and he also plays the nicest boyfriend ever on the other two and he has like one pitch but it's a really amusing pitch he's like I'm jacked and very sensitive

and it's like I'll hold space for you no matter what don't worry about it and just change in the window in front of you all the time I was like that's all right yeah

um let's talk about the new york thing so the three of us have lived in new york yeah uh you have grown up in the state of new york but not in the city in fact you said to me uh yesterday in the car you were like i would not like to live in new york i don't think i would enjoy living new york city i didn't like that this was said in new york city interesting i didn't like well the truth is is it was shot in vancouver and you can tell yeah um it was definitely not new york city there were a couple of sequences that I thought they replicated aspects of New York. I appreciated that the kills were set at a bodega, at the subway, I guess. And I even liked the alley.

I thought the opening was good. Though, Chris, I know the college is supposed to be uptown, but the whole thing is about how she's on Hudson. And she's meeting her date on Hudson. And then he walks two blocks and blends back into college campus. You're right. I don't know. Maybe there's an implied subway ride there or something, but you're right. Sure, there's not a lot of continuity. They really do skip right over that. How does this happen in every movie set in New York and every movie set in LA? Do you know what?

We drove to work today. It took 30 minutes to get to work. It should take 18 minutes because of the rain. But if we were in a movie, it would take 90 seconds. Do we sound 2,000 years old on this pod? Because we've got Gracie and we're like, the traffic was terrible. I hope that these young people are being safe. You tell us, Grace. Do we sound decrepit? And now Phoebe Bridgers.

Is that hitting? When is Nancy Byers going to be free? Let her cook. Yeah, it's tough i like dash and cooters chinos it's too bad um no new york okay so that wasn't central park like that was so glaringly not and you know what got me really annoyed and i'll tell you this and i also sound old by saying that was when they do the bit where they're like they steal the cop car to go running back to the the apartment where ghost is, to Gale's place.

The Upper West Side. The Upper West Side. Like, Die Hard with a Vengeance has given us the blueprint of how fun it can be to try to get across New York in a cab or in a car or whatever. Or like, you have to get downtown in this amount of time. And they're just like, yeah, we did it. Like, we just jumped in a cop car and got there. And it's like, it's pretty fake.

That being said, I thought the inherently new york mechanics of the set pieces that are probably the best in the movie yeah was really smart and the series itself needed that kind of refresh you know i think i like this movie more than all of you guys no no no i liked it i liked it can we talk about its portrayal of college for a bit? I think you should ask some questions. Yeah, Grace, do you go to class?

Yes. Okay, good. Yeah, that's great. Congratulations. If you didn't, you shouldn't say you don't on this spot. This is being broadcast

publicly. Oh my God. I just also, so no class, no concern about missing class, no homework, no like scholarship issues. In fairness,

they are being stalked by a murderous trio. But in Scream 2, there's a great classroom scene where they're all arguing about school. Yeah, you know, they at least give, there's like a professor, there's like campus security. Sarah Michelle Gellar in Scream 2, in that scene, is my dream girl. I know, yeah, it really is. There's also, specific, if it's supposed to be NYU or Columbia. I'm not really under the impression that there are a lot of like steam frat parties at NYU and Columbia.

You know what I mean? I wanted to ask you about that, too, because you have Greek life at your school. You're in Greek life. Like, did that I don't think that there is that level of like frat house in New York City. I could be mistaken. But did that at least look like a frat house? Did it seem like a frat party? I mean, frat parties at my school are like one like a small house. This was like a big New York City? I could be mistaken, but did that at least look like a frat house? Did it seem like a frat party? I mean, frat parties at my school are

like a small house. This was like a big New York little mansion type thing. Right. But that is also what seemed unrealistic. There are so many of those in New York, and they're available to college students to throw parties. Yeah, that was a little bit of a stretch. Like, they almost wanted it to be set at a college

in New England, but also New York City. I get what you're going for. I forget what it's logged on. That's not 68th Street. Watch where you're walking. I don't think I had continuity issues with New York because I don't know

anything about New York. Sure, sure. And that will be true for 80 to 90% of the people who see the movie. There's a real, I mean like, I had the best time

watching this movie. Legitimately real, I mean like, I had the best time watching this movie, legitimately did not think about like anything else but the movie for the entire run time and then going out for dinner right afterwards to be like,

let's talk about this movie. Where'd you go? Petit Trois in the Valley. So bougie. What'd you have? I had the trout. Okay. Yeah.

What was that face? It was disappointing? This is what I do for a living now. The steak there is really good, but I had steak the night before. This is unrelated and it's going to make Sean so mad, but I have been meaning to tell you that I think you should try Impossible Chicken Nuggets in the air fryer. We have been eating Impossible Chicken Nuggets.

Bobby, cut this part out, please, and actually destroy the tapes. I just don't want to hear Chris talking about chicken. And also, can I also tell you something else that I've been doing is that I've been getting really into making dips. Okay. I love a dip.

Yeah. And I but I was thinking it might be the only thing that he finds more disgusting is me making a tzatziki. You were trying to veer this pod back to something resembling youth.

And then you started talking about making dips like a 1950s homemaker. It's Martin Short from Only Murders oh my goodness okay wait so you were like

I think I like this more than you yeah but it's for a very obvious reason and it's because I'm poisoned by movies and these movies like demand to be

talking about movies and they're that's fun once again Mindy gets like the last movie she gets a big speech like Randy in the previous films

where she gets to kind of explain what kind of movie that they're in and she talks about the tropes and those sequences are always overwritten and on the nose and I love them I love when she does that I loved when he did it I love the video store nature of the first film I'm really into that aspect of it I love a meta commentary on movies and so I'm kind of waiting for that stuff and enjoying it and this movie also is filled with easter eggs to other movies which I love it's not like the most sophisticated

version of a movie, but it's a slasher. So like, let's have fun. Let's laugh. Honestly, also kind of nice to get a break from quote unquote elevated horror. Totally. Or like the like now avant-garde horror wave,

which I'm sure we're going to probably hit at some point this year. But like... Can you do the voice? I'm alone in the house. So are you familiar with the film Skinnamarink? Have you heard about this? Yeah.

Can you explain it? So Skinnamarink have you heard about this yeah can you explain it so Skinnamorink is this kind of experimental horror movie it's on Shudder and Sean and I have talked about this a little bit

but it's about 80 minutes right a little bit longer and it's shot on VHS and it's about it's set in the 90s

but it is entirely from the perspective of these two kids trapped in a house where they wake up one morning and there's no doors and no windows

so it's essentially like a nightmare for two hours they're six years old and four years old and the only dialogue or speaking is this little kid

who's like come back I want to go to bed I don't want to open my eyes but then followed by demonic images and awful sound design after

at the very end yeah it's a very intense film. Have you checked out Skidamarink yet? No, but I feel like I have Skidamarink on demand. Can I say something about this movie? And to your point about not Skidamarink, no, Screamsex

and the meta-ness and the film history and the references. What was interesting to me about this movie and this installment is that I responded more to the kills and the set pieces than I did to the structure around it. And I would say that certainly for the first three and probably even the four, the first four screams, like the kills are fun and obviously memorable. But I am like you, Sean, a movie nerd. And therefore, like the meta-ness. I like it when

people are cute and they're too self-aware. So I don't know whether that's just like, we're in the sixth installment and the premise is kind of setting up. I don't know whether I'm just old as shit. I actually have, like, the one thing I had a problem with the meta-ness is that they didn't follow their own rules. Oh, interesting. Because they didn't

actually take anybody out. Well, she talks, the thing about that funny Randy speech from Scream 2 is when he's doing this like or is it yeah Scream 2 when Randy gives like

the whole like there's the rules to the sequels and stuff like that he gives it to all the first three first three right

and is that like they actually follow those rules for the most part and then Scream 6 it's like they make this whole

big production and to some extent when we get to like the who are actually the killers and what their problem is with everybody we can do that but like i actually thought that they were like here's all these rules but we're actually they don't really apply to this movie where we're you know we're obviously sitting on kind of a box office juggernaut here because this is back to back it's a very good point i mean the tricky part is so the first four films i'm pretty sure through and through were all west craven kevin williamson collaborations kevin williamson wrote the screenplays west craven directed them west obviously one of the most legendary horror filmmakers of all time and they were commenting on the work that west had done i mean he really helped invent modern american horror and the new

films who are made by the radio silence guys, you know, they come from a different tradition of the sort of like homemade, handmade YouTube. And then the VHS anthology series. Um, and they are amazing at the kills. Amanda,

it's your point. That is what they are. So skilled at another good, like storytellers. I really like these movies a lot. And I really like what they've been up to, but they're not West. They did ready or not ready or not, which was also a really fun movie and actually where they first

worked with Dermot Mulroney and where they first worked with Samara Weaving right yes who was the woman who was killed in the opening sequence of the movie but they're at their best I think in the set pieces like there are I wrote it was very easy for me I saw this movie like a month ago it was easy for me to remember all six major set pieces just off the top of my head there's the opening sequence which is sort of like the Tinder date blind date phone call. Which I like a lot. Which is really well done.

And then has the false ending because you get the reveal of the killer and then the second kill. Right. That was also cool because that was the first time they show guys getting killed

in the opening scene or getting messed with. They didn't do that in any of the others. And I think it's the first time Ghostface has ever taken his mask off before the end of the movie.

Yeah. And also I thought a good use off before the end of the movie. Yeah. And also I thought like a good use of like a modern convention of a blind Tinder date. I mean, like that's something that we haven't seen before in the films. The second one is the convenience store kill, the bodega kill, which is like really violent and gnarly and feels more like an Abel Farrar movie or something. He's never held a gun before. And it's really menacing and effective. The third is the latter which I thought was the

most exciting sequence of the movie. That was the moment in the movie where I was like I'm inside of this movie. Like I'm so scared for this woman I've never seen before

who's dating me. Like who is that? I don't know but I hope she doesn't fall. And then there's Gale's home invasion which is also really really well done

and my honest opinion is she should have died in that sequence that would have actually improved this movie if she had died you don't think so? I really didn't want her to die

I just love Gail like I was rewatching all the movies I love Gail's character so I didn't want her to die but I was also like it would have made sense if she did

it really would have made sense can I just also point out that apartment it looks like she lives on Riverside Drive but the location is like near the park again

let's just, let's get our piece of news. Have you spoken with Eric Adams about this? Rest in power to Gail's boyfriend. Yeah, poor dude. He has no qualms about dating someone

who's being targeted by Ghostface and is just like, I'll go get the food, honey. I was happy to see that she was living her life again. She seems to be doing great. She moved on from Dewey

and yeah. Next big set piece is the subway, which we mentioned earlier. Sick. Which is really, really well done. That was which we mentioned earlier. Sick. Which is really, really well done. That was like

nerve wracking. Yes. And very like the only sequence that slow plays it. I don't think lights have gone off on the subway

like that since 1985. I was wondering about that. Yeah, but effectively deployed. And then let's talk about the ending a little bit too because

it leads to this conclusion. Ghostface shine. Yes. There's a kind of hall of scream that is kind of the inversion of the asshole of LA

with Babylon right it's like where are we what tunnel is this that takes us into this kind of former movie theater that has been transformed

into the hall of fame for all of the scream artifacts and all of the kills over time there are large spaces in New York

available for whatever you need at a reasonable price. Especially your private murder museum. Yes, exactly. That's definitely available. Yeah. And I thought they very effectively recreated a lot of the artifacts from the previous films. And I would, if I realized that that was where I was, a shrine to murder, I would not spend any time there. And yet our characters go there not once but twice during this movie.

It's revealed that Dermot Mulroney's character is actually the father of Jack Quaid's character from Scream 5 and that Quinn, who is Tara's roommate, who we think is dead, we think has been killed, has actually survived, and also that Jack Champion, whose character's name I can't remember, Ethan,

who is their friend who seems very innocent but is also very clearly not innocent at all, is also Chad's roommate and also was Spider in Avatar The Way of Water. I don't know if you

clocked that, Chris. He is also related. Their brother and sister and Dermot Mulroney is their father and Jack Quaid was their brother and he was murdered

by Melissa Barrera's character and so this family has come together and orchestrated an extraordinarily elaborate sequence of murders to kill the Carpenter kids and then they brutally fail despite pulling off many murders throughout New York City for

a solid two weeks. And we should maybe note, Grace, tell me if you agree often Ghostface's motivations are pretty complicated and driven by familial revenge, but you're often like, man, that was a long way around to get to this end point.

Like Nancy Loomis is a good example of you created a separate identity for yourself where you were a hardworking journalist to just get to this point where you're also working with Timothy Olyphant who wants to become famous

for breaking morals. Like, they go through a lot, you know, and Dermot Mulroney setting up a scream shrine in which to kill Marilisa Barrera's character

is no, is like a lot of work goes into that. When we got to the final 15 minutes were you like, this makes sense? I feel like it made sense because they were following

like the original Scream like pattern where the second movie was Billy Loomis' mom. So now this is their father and siblings. Like, it made sense.

I didn't expect it. I can never predict movies. I'm awful at it. So I didn't expect it. But, I guess I'm just saying. When you look back on it, this is for all of you guys,

like when you look back on it and see that there is, it's patternistic even if it's breaking its back on it, this is for all of you guys, when you look back on it and see that it's patternistic, even if it's breaking its own rules, is that good for the franchise? Does that mean we should start speculating on what Scream 7's story is going to be based on Scream 3? That could ruin the next one if it's really following this pattern so heavily. They have to pivot away from that, right? Yeah.

I think the ways that they tried to throw you off the scent of the pattern in this just overcomplicated it. I would prefer just a remake or changing it slightly. Yeah, I don't think they've ever done. You thought this person was dead in the first 30 minutes of the movie and they're not. That's true. And I have some logistical questions about the body switch. I don't know that that quite adds up.

I don't know how Derm adds up. I don't know how Dermot Mulroney got back in the police office. You know, wasn't he thrown out or something? Yeah. And he's also like, I was the first on the scene

so I could switch corpses. And it's just like. Right. But were you? And they were just like, sounds good, detective. This other body. The most obvious

this guy is murdering people moment was when he was like they've taken me off the case it's like yeah your kid was just killed what are you

talking about what are you gonna work through it that's insane yeah I think I thought it was like effective but

completely phantasmagorical and like absurd in a way that even the most like high key finales of Scream movies are usually not

like the characters are nuts but they're not often like set in these circumstances where you're like it's usually just in a house in Woodsboro

that's usually where the murders are happening do you have any of you have favorite like Scream stories like when it got to the end of Scream

you're like that was very effective I'm pretty like shaken up by that or like that was really cool like is it when it got to the end of Scream, you're like, that was very effective. I'm pretty, like, shaken up by that. Or, like, that was really cool. Like, is it just Billy, Loomis, and Stu from the first one? It's like, that was really, like, sick

how it was always her boyfriend. Or is there one that you like more than another? That one will forever be my favorite. That's why it's, like, hard to pick, like, a second. But, honestly, I think I enjoyed Scream 5. Jack Quaid, and I don't know the girl's, the actress's name. Mikey Madison. I actually thought they were really good. Like, I don't know the girl's, the actress's name. Mikey Madison.

Yeah. I actually thought they were really good. Like, I thought they were good acting in that scene. So that got me more invested in that one. I actually really liked 4. 4 is like a low-key, one of my favorite Screams. And I thought Emma Roberts was very chilling. She's very good.

And her and Rory Culkin are... That's a great moment. And it's like Emma Roberts' whole thing is she's related to Sydney and she's tired of Sydney getting like all the attention and I thought that was like a really good motivation

this really demented kid re-watching that one I actually couldn't stand her I found her motives really like annoying yes I literally

one of my notes is Emma Roberts is a brat in this movie she bugged the crap out of me I think that was sort of the point, though, right? Trying to make her as hateable as possible. Even when we were hanging out last night, Grace and I, with my wife,

we just fired up the, my mom and dad are going to be so mad at me, the Matthew Lillard moment. Because that movie, for me personally, I mean, you can maybe use this as an entree into talking about the other films. But as 14 of that movie came out, it's the first R-rated 14 of that movie came out it's the first r8 movie i snuck into first rewatchables i ever did basically led to doing this podcast

and at the time i was like this is my favorite kind of movie like forever this is the perfect convergence of what i care about it is like very clever and very fun and very violent and features young stars and an old great filmmaker like and if you look back at how I talk about movies, that has all of the pieces to the puzzle. The, the, the sequels,

I don't have as strong a relationship to, honestly. Like, I think I might like five more than I like a lot of the more vintage stuff.

Oh, wow. I like five too. And I thought it was like kind of a big success and it's weird that we actually never did an episode about it. Like,

we haven't ever really done a Scream episode of the show before what did you watch it when it came out because you were a little younger i didn't i screamed the original scream yes of course no i have vivid memories of watching it in my aunt betty's basement in oxville tennessee and being scared shitless because i was a little bit younger than you and don't didn't really have a tradition of horror movies terrified i was absolutely out of my mind and like in the basement i think alone i don't know why they let me do that i was like 11 and i and i don't have a history of horror movies because my parents don't watch them um but then it also became such a pop culture phenomenon drew barrymore like you know nev campbell the whole thing so

but i loved it like even then i think you know smart alec teens like knowing too much it really spoke to me the reference quality of it like definitely spoke to me and you know it's another thing where it's like the way that this movie is constructed and what it reflects about like that moment in pop culture consumption has also changed our brains you know and it's like another reason that this podcast exists. And because, you know, we're used to being like, oh, well, it's like this and this is how it always works. Like we learned that from Scream as much as it was reflecting

like what was going on at the time. A hundred percent. It was very like post-Clerks, post-Gwen Tarantino. Like, you know, you got to be like really, really smart and reference heavy. Right. But for a slasher, which was different. Exactly. So for you, like you weren't

born when the first movie came out like how did and i don't think of you as a big horror fan although maybe you are and i don't realize it i'm actually not a big horror fan but i think scream was one of the first horror movies i saw and did you say you're 14 when i came out that's when i watched it i watched it when i was 14 and like freshman year of high school it's a perfect 14 year old movie this movie is going to make more than 100 million dollars i know because she doesn't like horror movies. And she's like, I can't wait to see Scream. Yeah, exactly.

My best friend who's never seen any of the movies, I made her come with me. And she's never seen any. She was willing to see this one. I'm like, I promise you, it's not that scary. It's just like killing. Yeah. But we were talking about this yesterday. I mean, that's insane that she hasn't seen any of the other movies and then went to go see this movie.

This movie would be incoherent if you've never seen any of the other movies. Because it's so... Yeah, when Billy Loomis shows up in the reflection. Yeah then went to go see this movie. This movie would be incoherent if you've never seen any of the other movies because it's so... Yeah, when Billy Loomis shows up in the... Yeah, reflection. Yeah. I went with five other people. Only one of them

saw all the movies. The other four didn't see any of them. So they had like no connection to anything and I was like, what do you mean? Like this is like,

this is pretty... But did they like it? The thing about these... They didn't like it that much. I'm like, well, you probably would have liked it more if you saw the other movies.

I was so mad after the movie. Of course. This is the sixth movie in the franchise. The thing about these movies is that they explain everything in the movie like it is like the summary is sort of built in and they explain how it all works so it does kind of work as like a horror movie like history lesson as well as an explainer as you know but to get to if you don't get the references then you're not follow it like they understood what was happening but i'm like

you're missing so much of it that makes it like actually much more enjoyable it's funny because you can enjoy it in the way that you would enjoy a lot of the 80s slashers where you could just sit down and watch Friday the 13th

part 7 Jason Takes Manhattan and you don't really need to know anything about Jason well they never bothered to build up that much there was some stuff

with Jason's mom and like there's like things like the mythology was thin the mythology in this movie is pretty big now. I mean the whole idea of like the family

of the killer from the previous film being the killers in this movie like if you didn't see Scream 5 would it be scary or interesting at all?

I mean I guess to your friends no. I don't think I would find it that interesting if they're like just seeing like oh he was the kill in the last movie

but you wouldn't know that. That's not fun. And yet this movie is more successful than the last movie, but you wouldn't know that. That's not fun. And yet, this movie is more successful than the last movie at the box office. So like, why is that? Well, some of that's just

that more and more people are going back to movies. Like this was, this was 2022 early. I mean, you know. That's a good point. The box office is getting bigger again.

Are you going to the movies more now? I feel like I'm not a good person to ask because like in college, I don't really have a ton of time to go to the movies, but I have gone to a few this year. I guess. Sierra, are you going back to the films? I am. How are you feeling?

I feel great. I saw The Quiet Girl the other night on the big screen. I was like, this would have been so stupid to have watched this in my house. This is beautiful on a giant screen. People were hanging out. It was good. It was like,

I'm really back in on going to the movies. How do you feel about the theory that The Quiet Girl is a prequel to the Scream franchise? That the little girl grows up to be Sydney

and moves to Woodsboro? Is that, you buy it? Yeah, I do. In 100 meters, turn right. Actually, no. Turn left.

There's some awesome new breakfast wraps at McDonald's. Really? Yeah. There's the sausage, no. Turn left. There's some awesome new breakfast wraps at McDonald's. Really? Yeah. There's the sausage bacon and egg, a crispy seasoned chicken one. Mmm. A spicy end egg. Worth the detour. They sound amazing. Bet they taste amazing, too. Wish I had a mouth. Take your morning into a delicious new direction with McDonald's new breakfast wraps. Add a small premium roast coffee for a dollar plus tax. At participating McDonald's restaurants. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba.

One other thing before we rank these movies that I wanted to mention, and you brought this up to me yesterday, is one of the reasons why I think the movie is successful is because there were some prevailing internet theories about who the killer was going to be in this movie. And Stu, Matthew lillard's character was like a big part of some of the conversation that was happening on reddit happening on tiktok there were like a lot of desperate attempts to say like stew survived the tv killing and this

film obviously attempts to address that by once again killing someone by dropping a tv on their head but i was wondering if like you could could explain how you engage with something like that, like theorizing, especially before you've seen a movie. See, that got me excited because it was on YouTube, TikTok, all that. A lot of people were saying,

oh, Stu could be the killer. I'm like, no, he died. But I still had that little hope of excitement. And then in the movie, they even say where it was Kirby and Mindy and they're looking at the TV. They're like, oh, that's the TV that killed Stu. And then another one of them goes, if you believe that.

And I was like, oh, okay. But do you feel like it's, do you like being served up the theory that you've heard about ahead of time? Do you like when the filmmakers are like, hey, we know what you're thinking. And we're just going to explain it to you that it's not that way. I feel like I eat that up. I love it. I like it. It gets me excited for it.

I mean, that's also what happened with like Spider-Man. Everyone was like, oh, Andrew Garfield and Tobey Maguire are going to be in it. So I'm like, I have to see this movie. That builds you up for it. Well, that did rock. I thought they also did a nice job with the, how would the internet react to this killing and Melissa Barrera being turned into the real killer? I thought they could have done a ton more than that.

And I think maybe they will in the third one because of the last moments of this film when she's like looking at the mask and stuff. And it's like her birthright. I forgot about that.

I blacked that out. I was annoyed by it. Yeah. Because you don't want her to be a bad guy or anything like that. I just like, I understand that we're exploring

trauma and all of that stuff, you know, and that Cindy was on a book tour and all these sorts of things. It would be kind of cool if like, what if you knew Ghostface was already, like, you know what I mean?

No, I think that would be cool, but the way that they were doing it, like the sort of internal, you know, battle, like therapy stuff was like, I get it.

I think it's a question of if Force Ghost Billy Loomis works for you too as a convention. That's something that they introduced in five that was like, it's completely different from any of the first four movies, know that has a kind of supernatural psychological feeling to it right if you like that stuff and we were reminded of this as we were watching

scream one last night grace that you know sydney when she takes out billy loomis she's wearing the mask and that that when melissa barrera is killing characters in five and six that's a not just a callback to the Sydney Prescott thing, but to the idea that you kind of have to become ghost face to seek revenge and take power back. I love what you're suggesting, which is like, what if she is the killer and we know she's the killer like in Friday the

13th too. Cause I was trying to think of like, I don't think that they would be like, let's make a Carpenter sisters movie and a movie about the making of that movie. Like they wouldn't follow the scream three blueprint entirely. I do wonder whether or not it would be kind of neat if they did something based on like either a true crime docuseries or podcast kind of thing.

Yeah. Because then you could get into a lot of like all these other people with their theories about what's happening, which is sort of what they've sort of alluded to. But I, I don't think they'll do a straight up, like, this big time director wants to make your story and like you're in Hollywood again and all that stuff.

I'm reading a novel that's a version of that right now, like a true crime. I hate it. I'm going to quit. So I hope they don't do that. Okay. There are some nods to like the true crime phenomenon, even in this movie, you know,

like the Kirby character in effect is like acting as a surrogate for some of that stuff. Well, even with the Kirby character in effect is like acting as a surrogate for some of that stuff. Well, even with the internet believing like Sam is the killer, they're like, oh, she pinned it on Richie

and then they make like, they're doing the hashtags of like, Richie's innocent. Like that's, that was kind of real. Like that's something that would happen in real life.

So I feel like if they're trying to go the same Scream 3 route, it'd probably be something along like crime documentaries. It just happened with the Moscow murders. Like, you know what I mean?

Yeah, speak on it. Who did that? No, but there was random other people were getting essentially implicated because people were like, well, if you look at the video from the food truck, it's this guy. That dude's life is ruined. This is what I really like about these movies and why I basically will watch every Scream movie until I die is

they can be these portals for how stories are told and obsessed over in our modern culture. You know, like that's what the first movie is about and that's what this movie is about with the redditization of, you know, solving true crime and the idea of turning the hero into the villain online.

Like all that stuff is just really clever and I thought very effective in this movie. Where does this one rank for you guys in the hall of Scream? Have you thought about it? These are actually quite tricky to rank because number one is patently obvious.

Yeah. I don't think anybody would really argue with that. We could almost go in reverse order where it's like more interesting to go from one to six.

We usually go from six to one. But in this case it's safe to say everybody agrees that Scream 3 is the best Scream. I'm just kidding. Grace looks at me like

I just shot her dog. movie cop. See I forgot Patrick Dempsey was in that movie until I rewatched it. He's really good in Scream 3. Some suggestion that he was going to come back in this one,

but he did not because they did not get Neve Campbell to come back, unfortunately. Well, they implied that they're married in Scream 5 and I was like, oh, did not catch that

for a while. So Scream 1, the original Scream, 1996, number one, right? Yeah, absolutely. We're in agreement. So number two, I have three number two. Three? Yeah, absolutely. We're in agreement. So number two, I...

I have three number two. Three? Because I really enjoy Parker Posey in that. She's very good. I love all of the meta movie making, like the Lance Henriksen playing the dirty old producer guy. I love the Cotton Weary intro in that, with that kill when he's like in the limousine on the phone.

Right, and that's the only Scream with just one killer but I find it still even if I take a couple years if I'm watching Scream 3 I'm like

who's the killer again like I kind of forget that it's Roman you know so I really enjoy Scream 3 what do you think of Scream 3 Scream 3 is ranked

last for me oh my goodness I do not like Scream 3 I realized when I was re-watching them, Scream 3 I find very unappealing. I don't like the whole Sydney's mother ghost thing that they do in the beginning.

I remember hating that first time watching it. I was like, I remember I hated this. I don't like it. What you were saying about forgetting it's Roman, it's so unmemorable.

Yeah. I guess to me, that's an incredible counter take. This is podcasting. You're like I'm on Crossfire. You burn. I like 2 and 4 more than three i do too yeah um i have i after three i have four two okay i might go two as well grace yeah i'm with you i really the timothy oliphant thing really works for me it's important to believe yeah well i i don't mean it in that way okay i was gonna say we don't want to be violently murdered.

I'm moving into a phase of you podcasting with your libido. I think it's really interesting. No, I don't. I mean, I'm a huge Tim Theoliffin fan. I think he's really important. But in this case, I think it's important to be reminded, as the franchise does in general, that fanboys are fucking dangerous, you know, and psychotic and annoying. And you can't be with them.

And that, in a lot of ways, animates the entire franchise, and I agree with it. But, like, I do think that classroom scene is really well done. All of the meta film history stuff is, I think, the smartest,

actually, in Scream 2. Yeah. Kevin Williamson really has his fastball in that movie, yeah. I think that the... I don't like the kills as much in 2 except for the opening sequence, which I think is maybe like one of the three or four best sequences.

Yeah, it's incredible. The movie theater sequence with the stab premiere and then... It's Omar Epps, right? Omar Epps getting stabbed in the bathroom. I think the Sarah Michelle scene in 2 is really chilling. Oh, yeah. Oh, it's so good. Yeah. And that's the sorority house, right? Yeah. But you're right. Like, after that, there's not one that really weeps out but you're right like after that there's not like a

one that really weeps out at me they have all that stuff with like the cassandra the theater production is like most of the end of the movie right right and then yeah and they're like there's some sort of recording booth oh yeah dewey getting stabbed outside of the recording booth i feel like i have a few things on too like i thought the car scene was like interesting when they climb over him like that's scary that's true that was good the boyfriend like you don't trust the boyfriend because of Billy in the previous movie but then you're watching like oh the boyfriend's actually nice like I like

that was emotional thing I was like oh poor guy these movies are really good they are good I want to watch them again it's funny how you can take just pretty much anyone and be like oh and that has this and that has that and that has this scene like the hard thing about this though is these movies are perfect because they have individual moments that you like more than others and so like you're like and that has this, and that has that, and that has this scene. The hard thing about this, though, is these movies are perfect because they have individual moments that you like more than others.

And so you're like, I really like Scream 3. And Grace is like, I don't like Scream 3 at all. I'm like, I really like Scream 5. I think it's actually better than some of these more recent vintage movies. So I don't know if this exercise even makes sense. Should we all be doing individual lists? Does that make more sense? I know you made yours, Grace.

So you have four pretty high. I have four pretty high because, one opening yes like unbelievable like unbelievable and then it's it's like back to basics it's teens again in the house in the high in the in high school and number four is the Lucy Hale stab Amy Tiergarten yeah yeah yeah back to Kristen Bell right and then it's yeah that is very clever yeah and but like it it works really And then it's, yeah. That is very clever, yeah. But it works really well when it's a bunch of high school students in a small town.

Also, Four is with Alison Brie as the book publicist. Is that right? Yeah, that's really funny. Sydney is doing her book tour for her autobiography, right? One thing that I wanted to say about Scream 3 in the pro column

is I think Sydney lives in Topanga, which is an incredible house, but lives in Topanga, which is, like, an incredible house, but also, of all the places to live, if you are, like, being terrorized by a serial killer

and a, you know, group of imposters over and over again, like, you can't be in the middle of the woods in Topanga. One road in, one road out. You know what I'm saying?

Like, do you know how long? But 3 is, by that point, she's like, I've become more combat ready, right? Sure, but still, it's just, it's not smart. Three has the Woodsboro replica set

that they have the eventual final, like, showdown on. I love that. I love the script coming in through fax. When, like, the whole cast is like, what's the next page? So, yeah, like,'s the next page? So yeah like even the movies

like Grace Doesn't Like Three there's like five or six really cool parts of three like you know like I can respect it. Yeah. So what is do your rankings?

I'm curious to know what you put together. So one and two and then I have five and six I guess they're kind of interchangeable. I think I like five more and then four three. Interesting.

I'm pretty much the exact opposite. I have well I go one, three, four two and then five, six, I have, well, I've, I got, I go one, three, four, two, and then five, six, but I really like five,

six. You just have something has to be like five and six. What is yours? One, two, four, three, five,

six. I think I go one, two, five, three, four, six, but I liked six.

So that's the thing. It's like, I'm not, I also like These movies are really rewatchable to me. I'm just going to say I need to see six again to know how I feel about it. It's nice there are no free ads,

but they're all in Paramount. If you're like, oh, I got to do a refresher course, you could do a lot worse than knocking out some screams. I did want to ask about the era of streaming and streaming movies with Grace a little bit too, since you know,

we do this for work every week. We're constantly rewatching stuff. We all subscribe to all the streaming services. Rewatching is like an elemental part of the podcasting stuff. Do you have, do you have subscriptions to all the streaming services? Do you rewatch movies that you love all the time? Yeah.

The, my favorite movie list that I showed you yesterday, those are all movies services? Do you re-watch movies that you love all the time? Yeah. My favorite movie list that I showed you yesterday, those are all movies that I consider re-watchable. So I go to try and find them on different services, but I don't have them all. Like Paramount Plus, I started a seven-day free trial. Okay, great. I have to cancel that in the next couple days.

I'll pay for it if it goes over. Don't worry about that. Do you watch movies with your friends? Yeah. Me and my roommate watch a ton of movies together. Like rewatch. We're watching all Pedro Pascal movies right now. Okay.

But it's good that we all share our streaming services. Oh, yeah. Because some people have things and then other people don't. Like I don't have a lot of them. Do you know that they're going to start cracking down on this? How are you feeling? Not good. That's a lot of money I'm going to have to spend. I wonder if piracy is going to come back when that happens.

Well, it exists already yeah but like I think that they've made it so there's a decided different and like difference in the quality

like so like going to Paramount and watching Scream is a lot more pleasant of an experience than watching it on some like weird third party site

with tons of pop ups that's definitely true I'm sure there's like a huge torn in community still out there like you know I don't know. It's interesting. They've really made ease of use

as baited. So I'll pay the five bucks. Grace, what's your watching situation for school? If you're a film major, I assume that you have to watch... You have homework that's watching movies, right? Yeah. I don't have as much homework for movies as I did last year, but this year I'm in a semester. I'm in a film 205, which is a 1950s to like 1990s.

So we're watching a lot of like 50s, 60s movies right now. And do they like screen them for you or are you just like watch them? Yeah. Yeah. We just go to class and he just puts on the movie and then we write paper about it. Okay. Which is kind of sick. Sean's like, I want that job.

Yeah. Well, I wanted to add like, can you talk about being a film major in 2023 and like what that has been like for you like you've been over the course of the last year

effectively when we talk we talk about what you're watching what your syllabus is what is a classic that you don't like you don't have to share

any of those really bad opinions here in this public forum but like I'm curious like what it's been like to be because when I was watching films

or Chris when you were watching films when we were in college for school, that was almost 25 years ago. And so there's now been 25 more years of movie history since that happened. So you're going even effectively further back than we were going because of the amount of time that has elapsed. Does it feel like you can get your arms around the whole history of movies? I feel like I'm not a great person to ask because i don't enjoy watching a lot of the older movies i feel a lot of them are like we talked about this i feel a lot of them are so repetitive like a lot of them are crime noirs or film noirs and i just don't enjoy that genre so it's just constantly watching them every single week and i just don't and they're slow too everything

relatively is like much is paced very differently yeah Yeah. Like I'm talking about it with like Rocky a couple, you know, which is like if you don't learn to watch movies at that pace or not even learn to that sounds. But if that's not the pace at which movies are introduced to you, like going backwards, it can feel like a slog. I get it. Yeah. Like I just I don't act like I was giving him my opinions on old ones. I broke his heart.

I you broke my heart. I'm so well. Yeah. What's one older? Is there anything that you have liked that's older? I loved Singing in the Rain. Oh, there we go. Okay, there we go. All right, let's close on a moment of joy.

Of generational, reaching across the generational divide. That was my favorite, number one. It's incredible. Yeah. I'll be honest though, I had a moment of like old politician talking to young person in the crowd when we were discussing film noir yesterday, where you were like, I was like, yeah, they're archetypes. Like that's one of the great things about it is they kind of all have some of the same puzzle pieces. And you were like, that's boring.

And I was like, that's a very fair point. I could see how it would be boring to watch a movie about a dame and a mysterious object. I think sometimes it's not the pieces, it's the box. Because we just spent 45 minutes talking about six movies that essentially are the same movie. Yeah. You know, like, and are part of, like, a larger genre of, like, slashers and final girls. Yes. Which is why we get up in the morning, you know?

I often wonder about it in the context of when we were growing up. And, man, this is the oldest pod we've ever made. When we were growing up, no TikTok, is the oldest pod we've ever made. When we were growing up, no TikTok, no Instagram, no Spotify, no YouTube. You had a moment where you could stop yourself. It's important to this journey that we're all on together.

In fact, we had a work event last week called stream on. And Markiplier was one of the guys who spoke at the event. And he has a podcast here at Spotify. And that was the first YouTuber I was ever made aware of by Grace when she was in sixth grade. And she was like, I'm really into Markiplier. I watch all of his videos. And I was like, what are you talking about? And then he showed up on stage this past week. I thought of you immediately. Then we just got into a long conversation about him last night. We were watching some of his videos. And I was like,

this is, this is also like Wes Craven for this generation. Like, obviously not making horror movies, but there is a kind of like a filmmaking and storytelling style that is happening that we don't spend a lot of time talking about on this show. But if you watch his videos, it is filmmaking. It is, I don't know if it's cinema, but it's like is there a generational imprint on people where like they are basically fixed on like this is the pacing of a film that i find to be the most pleasurable so like when i watch hunt for october i'm like this is how movies are supposed to feel yeah like when grace watches um what's your version of that like is it infinity war like when you're watching like is it something a little bit more contemporary where you're like,

this actually is exactly what I want from this movie and it's paced exactly right? I actually don't know. I feel like I just like those kind of movies more, but I feel like a lot of people have kind of swerved away from Marvel-type movies. That's tough to hear for Mandy MCU. Yeah. I don't know how you guys are going to get through Phase 5.

You love Paul Rudd. How was Ant-Man and the Quantum whatever for you? I enjoyed it. Yeah. I did enjoy it. She enjoyed it. Right. You're like, Amanda's like the Quantum whatever.

Like she's not like deep on the take. You're going to start crying? I feel bad for you because I know that Disney's suing the person who leaked the Quantumania scripts to Marvel spoilers Reddit. And I know that they're eventually going to trace it back to me. That's tough. Yeah.

Is there like a platonic ideal movie from the last 10 years that you're like this is what I want for my movies? Yeah. I don't

I fully don't know. I just know I don't like the pacing of older movies and I guess that is what you're saying like generational thing is like

I didn't grow up with like the really slow moving movies so going back and watching like this is so unenjoyable. So going back and watching like this is so unenjoyable. Grace's Letterboxd is

just an absolute dunk fest. Nobody looks at Letterboxd. It's like Battleship Attempt. Do you review stuff too? Yeah.

Not review. I just put my little ratings. No one look at that. That's just incriminating because ratings are very stressful in Letterboxd.

Yeah. I don't really like to rate too much stuff to be honest. That's so lame. What for? My opinion changes. Do you think it's lame? What do I get? Quiet girl. It's more fun to rate too much stuff, to be honest. That's so lame. My opinion changes. Do you think it's lame?

Yeah, it's more fun to rate. That's 20 minutes that you could have spent air frying things or on a walk or doing anything else. Or watching another one of your YouTube videos about why the CGI in Ant-Man is actually good. I just feel like the more times I watch something, the more my feelings change. So the idea of being like, here's my final declaration on this film. That was invented to sell newspapers. That wasn't in, I don't know. So what you're saying is you're unsubscribing

from Letterboxd. No, I love Letterboxd. But I just don't need stars. I don't care. I'll rate stuff sometimes if it occurs to me but it doesn't feel, I'm not dogmatic about it. I mean we were talking about what you did which is you went back and you looked and thought about every single movie you had ever seen

and you logged it and rated it every single movie you'd ever seen that's really impressive that took me a long time but like obviously we're related

I mean come on it's just like this psychotic behavior of a fantasy I'm incredibly aware and I'm trying to be supportive of her while also

you know it's a little bit of just like this is it's a cautionary tale sitting next to you look at this great success right here in Los Angeles in the Spotify studios So, you know, it's a little bit of just like this is, it's a cautionary tale sitting next to you. Look at this great success. We're here in Los Angeles in the Spotify studios.

But there's obviously something in our DNA that leads to doing things like that. Because I did not recommend that to you. You were like, I did a thing. Look at what I did. My friend introduced the app to me and I was like, I have to write down all of them now. I was kind of thinking when I got out of Scream, when I got home that night,

of writing a review for Scream 6. And then I was like, I wonder if she'll get mad if I did all my takes on Letterboxd before the pod. But then I was like, wouldn't it be amazing if he had to choose between his own podcast and Letterboxd as the proper platform?

Because I think that that's literally your... That's one of the reasons why I don't rate movies early. Because you don't want people to know at the pod. Because I don't want people to be like, why would you even listen to the show? I'm just like, here's a three-star review in 500 words. We're making a show here. But also because I'm still thinking about what I thought about the movie.

You don't have to rate it right away. You can take the time. And then if your rating changes, it's not permanently subscribed, you can change it. Says the girl who rated every single movie she'd ever seen in one night. And I go back. I can have a discussion and be like, I'll rate that differently. There you go. Yeah.

Wow. It's a living document. Just got schooled by the film major. Any final thoughts on Scream, Letterboxd, streaming? Do you want me and Amanda to take the pot over when you go and go back throughout your life and rate every film you've ever seen? I'll be starring in Quentin's film. So once I move on to that as the movie critic. Sorry guys,

it's not about me. You want letterbacks? Grace, did you have fun? I did. Is there anything you didn't get off your chest? You had a whole document full of takes.

Did you get all your takes off? I think I did. I think I just wrote down things I enjoyed in the movie and things I didn't like but they're all just stupid little notes. We wanted Chad to die.

We thought Chad should die, right? Well, I love Chad didn't want him to die. He should have died. But yeah. That was one of the sickest things I've ever seen in a screen movie

was the two ghost face going hog wild on him and then wiping the blood off their cloaks. That was like, that's a death. Like simultaneously two at the same time

stabbing all different areas. Awesome. Oh, he made it. Yeah, absolutely not. Come on. As a doctor, I can tell you that definitively. And also, he survived the removal of the oxygen mask

for them to make out. Like, come on. I have one final Ghostface thought, actually, now that I think about it. Okay. It's not about Ghostface Kill as much as I love him. So, this is the all-time serial killer figure in American history.

Like, this is the most well-known image of murder, right? Like, this would become... How many people have died at the hands of a ghost face? Oh, if there was, like, a ghost face murderer in America?

No, just, like, in the story of Scream, like, obviously, many people have gone under the cloak. I'm sure we could say it's north of, like, 30 people, right?

Maybe even 50 people. Right. So, like, why are people dressing up like Ghostface on Halloween like that's insane right also how is the mask

still being sold you know that's what I mean that's a very easy public safety thing like does that occur to you that this is insane what the culture of this movie

is doing but I think that the problem is that there's also stab movies in these movies so in Scream, there is also a big, successful franchise of stab,

which popularized the ghost face mask. So people, like, when Joker was coming out, people were like, we need to, like, lock down every movie theater in America for fear of a psycho.

And that was before the movie even came out and nobody cared. It didn't mean anything. So, like, if we have that kind of alarmist reactionary behavior around movies, imagine if there were

literally dozens of murders related to a movie. That's insane. I remember as a child, like the scream ghost face mask was like a very popular thing. Like there was the mask that like you could like press a button and like blood flows down them. Like that was huge when I was younger because it was just an easy costume. I mean, it's still one of the most confusing photographs I've ever seen in my life is

Andre Kirilenko's wife wearing the ghost face mask at a basketball game. Can you explain who Andre Kirilenko is to Grace? He was a Russian basketball player in the NBA. He briefly played, he played in Utah. I think he was briefly on the Sixers. I can't remember where. AK-47 was his nickname in part because he wore the number 47. Fallen a little out of favor since then.

But his wife, I can't remember her name, has a very famous photograph of her. And it's just like her wearing a ghost face mask and wearing like yoga pants at a basketball game while like all these other people are just normally sitting there. And I was kind of like, it's pretty, it's doing it for me. Yeah, you were turned on. Yeah. You're like, stab me, baby. Yeah. But it was like.

Have you ever been turned on by ghost face? No, I have not. Good. Glad to hear it. What if ghost face talked like Austin Butler? Oh, mama. I got some trauma. I got to work out.

This is the last thing, I promise. Austin Butler. Are you in? You've been aware of him because of Disney Channel and everything for years. Did you like Elvis?

No. I'm so indifferent towards Austin Butler. Wow! I'm so indifferent. We did it, Joe! The young generation doesn't care about Elvis. No, that's not true.

A lot of people do. Is he a big star? He's big. He's really big. A lot of people, when Elvis came out, so many people were thirsting over Austin Butler. So would you at this point,

I'm not putting you on the spot, but just give me a sense. Is there Jenna Ortega or Zendaya? Who's bigger? For a long time, I would say Zendaya. And Zendaya is still huge. Jenna Ortega is really just so popular right now. Wow.

I feel like overall, it'd still be Zendaya. But like right now, Jenna Ortega. Damn. Passing of the torch. I'm a Zendaya girl. Should we get Zendaya on one of these wash pods with old people? Talking about old people stuff? When she comes in to talk about tennis for an hour and a half with Amanda for challenge.

I just can't wait. Is that a pod you'd like to do? Talking about tennis? With Zendaya? Yeah, with all of them because it's Mike Feist and Josh O'Connell are the other people in the end. Are you aware of this movie coming out? And Luca Guadagnino. There's a tennis dramedy called Challengers coming out in August

that like 14 people are going to see, but one of them is Amanda and she's extremely excited about it. Zendaya, Josh O'Connell, Mike Feist. It's going to be great. The clothes are going to about it. Zendaya, Josh O'Connor, Mike Feist. Solid. It's going to be great. The clothes are going to be amazing. Scream 6, thumbs up or thumbs down? Thumbs up, man. Thumbs up. Yeah, thumbs up.

It's also, you know what, it's like you can feel the arc of the year going up where it's like, you know, we had like Megan and Plane and it was pretty good, pretty good. And then you're like, oh, Scream, that was fucking entertaining. This is where my head's at. I just feel like it's going to be an awesome movie. No matter what, I feel like I entertaining this is where my head's at I just feel like it's gonna be an awesome movie no matter what I feel like I'm just gonna

love the franchise I just love the franchise that they could release anything I'm like I love them I'm with you Grace thank you so much for coming on the show this was so fun

thank you for having me appreciate it CR thank you Amanda thank you thanks to our producer Bobby Wagner he's back in New York for producing today's episode

Bobby watch out for Ghostface he's taking Manhattan be careful stay out of those bodegas brother next week we're gonna be back with a new gimmick it's about one of our favorite actors he has a new movie out that some people are seeing not many people are seeing

Adam Driver the film is called 65 it did okay right it did decent business quick question do you care about Adam Driver I love Adam Driver we are going to craft a movie star playbook for Adam Driver what has he done what should he do? See you then.