The Big Picture - Sean Baker’s Wondrous ‘The Florida Project’ | The Big Picture (Ep. 39)

Episode Date: December 8, 2017

Ringer editor-in-chief Sean Fennessey chats with Sean Baker, who was recently awarded Best Director by the New York Film Critics Circle for his latest film, ‘The Florida Project.’ They discuss how Baker tells authentic stories about underrepresented communities, his use of inexperienced actors, and why he prefers making smaller-budget films. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When I drive down the street and I see a billboard and it's all like Academy Award winners and nominees and they even say it and then there's not one new fresh face to this. I just say why? I'm Sean Fennessy, editor-in-chief of The Ringer, and this is The Big Picture. Sean Baker is not a wonder king king even if it may seem that way the 46 year old co-writer and director of one of the year's loveliest realist films the florida project has been making movies for almost two decades many first heard of baker after the release of 2015's tangerine a story of two transgender sex workers in los angeles that gained attention for two reasons one it starred two unknown first-time actors and two it was shot

entirely on an iPhone 5S. The Florida Project is a little bit of the same and a little bit different, too. It's a moving and intimate story of a mother and a daughter living in a budget hotel just miles outside of Disney World in Orlando, Florida, and it also stars two extraordinary unknown first-timers. And in its own specific, patient way, the movie looks at the lives of impoverished people who don't always get the attention they deserve. It's Baker's best film, and it's being hailed as one of the year's best too. Last week, the New York Film Critics Circle named him Best Director, and The Florida Project has emerged as a serious Oscar contender. Baker and I talked about everything that led to this

film, how he pulled it off, and the difficult decisions that go into what comes next. So without further ado, here's Sean Baker. Quite thrilled to be joined by Sean Baker today, co-writer, director, editor of the wonderful film, The Florida Project. Sean, thank you for coming in. Thanks for having me. Sean, you've made films about people that are on the margins, and some of those people include a delivery man, the elderly. In your new film, it's the impoverished residents of an Orlando motel. Why do you keep getting drawn back to these people and wanting to put them on film? I think it's just a reaction to what I'm not seeing enough of in film and television, at least in US film and television, I think that's it. See, this is actually something that journalists and critics have been pointing out to me. It's not something I set out to do.

These are worlds in which I've wanted to explore to find a story in. I think it comes down to just it being a response to what I'm not seeing enough of. Is that also the kinds of movies that you like to go watch? I think so. I look at some of my favorite films out there, some of the films that have had the most influence, and I lean towards those sort of films. I mean, you know, Ken Loach's films always have to do with, like,

sort of the working man, the underdog. Chang Dong-li, he's a South Korean director. He made a film called Oasis, which I really love. And it's, again, it's about two social outcasts who find each other. Harold and Maude, you know, an unlikely love story about basically two people who are sort of isolated. And you would never give them a love story,

those two a love story. So, you know, there are lots, I think I lean towards those types of stories and it's simply because we're inundated as audiences with seeing the same groups of people being given the same stories over and over and over again. I think that's it. Is there something like a personal reflection in there too of feeling isolated or outside of something and wanting to reflect on that?

Perhaps. My struggles as an artist is very different from the struggles of others who are actually in survival mode. And I think my films normally are focusing on people in survival mode. But it is funny because as an independent filmmaker, you are constantly – you feel on the outside and you feel as if you're definitely marginalized. Yeah. So maybe, maybe there's a little bit of that. Let's talk a little bit more about the Florida Project. Okay. This story came to you from your co-writer, Chris Burgosch.

Yeah. Burgosch. Burgosch, excuse me. Came by way of his mother. Yes. Who lives nearby the Orlando area. So what happens after that happens? How do you guys write a story around this idea? Well, in this case, he had been sending me, he got wind of this situation happening in

Kissimmee, which is right next to Orlando. And he started sending me news articles because the news media had already picked up on this. And there were actually several articles written about it. And when I say about it, I'm talking about the juxtaposition of children living in these budget motels outside of a place that we consider paradise for children, you know, or like the happiest place on earth for children. So that's how I became aware of even the entire issue through this location. This is also the location that news journalists have decided to focus on as well. So that was really the impetus. And then Chris and I, then we have to then find a story. We have to

find a story somewhere in these worlds that we are interested in focusing on. So we brainstorm. Okay, I guess that's the first step. Usually it's over the phone. And in this case, I think we came up with the mother-daughter thing pretty early on just based on the fact that most of the single-parent families were run by their mothers, by the mothers. Also on top of that, there's a little bit of the Disney trope thing going on there where it's like the damaged mother and the single child. And I think that that's what started us down this road. We didn't jump right into a script or a scriptment because

we couldn't do our research right away. We had to get a grant. We couldn't get a grant until we made Tangerine, which was the film I made before this. That opened up doors for us. That got us the grant. Then we started doing our trips there. And that's when it's really – it fleshes out way more than just that little log line, mother-daughter in a motel. You suddenly are like fleshing out the world because Chris and I go there. We absorb as much of the environment as possible. We speak to everybody.

It's a very journalistic approach. And then through this, once you get enough, once you collect enough stories and enough anecdotes and meet enough people and meet enough characters and understand the politics of the world, then you finally get to a place where you start to see like, oh, that could be a plot. That could be a plot. What are you doing though? Are you knocking on doors at motels? Are you hanging out in parking lots? Sometimes. I mean we would never just knock coldly on a door.

You usually see people. You approach them and politely tell them what you're doing and then that leads to somebody either being enthusiastic or not. If they're enthusiastic, then they start introducing you to other people and it becomes a thing where you're then talking to a whole community eventually. But you know, it takes, you know, it takes a little while, you know, you don't always meet the enthusiastic person who wants to talk right, right out of the bat, right out of the gate. Is this the same strategy that you used on Starlet or on Tangerine? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Starlet was a little different because you're not – you don't find porn stars by knocking on doors. Good point.

Some people wish they could. Yeah, yeah. This where it's basically like a – when you're on the ground and you're basically approaching people in a community, I learned that whole way of doing it through a film I made called Prince of Broadway, which was the one I made before Starlet. And that was, it takes place in the wholesale district of New York City, which is now gentrified, but this was 10 years ago. It's a strip of Broadway between 26th and 30th where a lot of counterfeit goods are sold on the streets

or in back rooms of these small shops. And we went in there just knowing we wanted to tell a story about this neighborhood. And that's it. I mean, that really was it. We had to spend a year working our way in and it was much harder because many of the people selling the counterfeit goods are West African immigrants who are actually undocumented. So to try to – they're very leery about speaking with people. I mean we could be ICE.

We could be police. We could be police, we could be whatever, journalists, whatever. They wanted us, we had to win them over. We had to gain their trust. And when we did, well, then everything started rolling, but it took a long time. And I think we, but we understood that that was the only way to do it. The only way to tell a story where you're actually hearing from the voices of the community. Because if not, we could have just walked in there and we could have told any story that we thought could apply to it. But I just don't think that's the right thing to do. And plus, it would just come across as, I don't think it would come across as authentic. People would read right through it.

It's not how I would want to, I would want to do this. I just feel it wouldn't be the ethical way of doing things. So it's become easier every time. And then with Florida, you go to the motels, you see if somebody wants to talk, then you start to show them, say, Google my name. So it's a lot easier now that I've made more films. At what stage does the film go from something that necessitates a grant to even be doing research and start writing to something that has a, I think it feels like your biggest budget that you've yet had. Yes. Yeah. So, wow. writing to something that has a, I think it feels like your biggest budget that you've had. Yeah. So it was shortly after in this case, June pictures, who is Andrew Duncan and Alex Sachs.

They came to me through my agent. They basically loved Tangerine and they said, we're farming, forming a new company. We have a, we're doing a few films this year and we'd love to basically let you do what you want to do for approximately this amount of money. And I was like, that sounds great as long as I get director's cut and I am able to increase my budget by a bit. I mean, it's still a low budget film, but it's definitely out of the micro budget world that I was working in for a while. Was that a major goal coming out of Tangerine to do something that was a little bit bigger? Oh, that major goal was five films ago. And it took me, and actually it was really making Tangerine was difficult in terms of the ego, because it really did feel like a step back. Starlet was quarter of a million and we tried to make it look like a million. And I think it does. But the thing is that then to say, you have less than half of that and that's it.

And it's like, oh, my God, we're shooting on iPhone. I made the decision to shoot on the iPhone. But even in that moment, it felt very defeating, just like, wow, we're taking a big step back. Who knew that that was going to be the one who actually got me finally able to take the leap up over a million. I probably could have made the leap over a million earlier, but I actually think that the film gods actually have kept me from it because now I actually look back at my filmography and I'm happy about it. I think I could have pushed and I could have done certain things to, you know, to make my films more commercial,

you know, take the time to actually try to find those box office draw, those names that are box office draws, but, but I didn't. I wanted to ask you about that. I mean, it does seem like, I'm not quite sure what it was that prevented you from doing that. Maybe just the desire to have direct to final cut on everything, right. Tell the specific stories that you wanted to tell, but was there a version 15 years ago where you were going to work in Hollywood and make a Hollywood film? You know, those chances came and, and went, I don't know whether I'm responsible for having them go away or somebody else, like the way things are supposed to work out. I don't believe in that stuff. I don't believe in fade and all that stuff, but it actually does

apply a lot to my career. Like I've had a lot of like decisions made for me. What was the decision that was made for you? Oh my gosh. So many decisions have been made for me and some I can't even get into for legal purposes, but we were trying to make a film after Starlet, which was supposed to be a big jump up, a big jump up, like to 15 million. And it was going to be, it was a film that was about Brighton Beach and the Russian community there. And all I wanted it to be was simply, you know, I wanted real Russian actors to come over and just have one recognizable face here. There are two women in Hollywood who can speak Russian. I think you know who I'm talking about.

And they have the same first name. So it was written for those two. And the rest were just supposed to be, the rest of the cast, total Russian stars. But then, of course, I started getting that, you know, you start getting seduced. You talk to a producer who's like, no, no, it should be Gosling doing a Russian accent.

It should be like Gosling and Channing Tatum and like all the big names doing Russian accents. And I started to buy into it. I'm like, yeah, this could work. No, it couldn't. I mean, listen, I'm not saying – I know I wouldn't have been able to do it and those guys are great actors and they would be able to pull it off. But still, I just – I'm always trying to make films for, like the groups that I'm focusing on, my biggest goal is for them to love the film. That's like my major thing. And I knew the Russians would hate that. If I made a film with all Hollywood stars doing Russian accents, the Russians

would hate the film. And that the goal is for them to like it. You know, I want them to like it. I mean, you know, if I'm representing a group on, on camera, the representation is everything. And, and so I would have failed. So anyway, the thing is that, that, that, that fell out, the bottom fell out on that. We couldn't raise the 15 million. And so that was a decision made for me that probably really helped my career because if I went ahead and made that, I think it would have been a failure. You know, the concept of casting is such a big part of the story around your career now too. And obviously, especially the story around this movie. What is it that is so important to you? You know, you found your Mooney, you know, you found Bree on Instagram. When you enter this process, are you like, I want to do something that is different

when I'm trying to find people? Or are you just absolutely trying to find the best person you can find? I'm trying to find the best person I can find. I'm fine with having recognizable seasoned actors in my films. Absolutely. But I also really like having probably the majority being fresh faces, not the majority, just over 50%. I just feel as if it's also really interesting to bring fresh faces to the screen. And I just – I think that I make character-driven films that are more – I think – and now you ask. It's all subjective. But some people say my films are way too plot-driven. And then other people say there's no plot.

So I'm not – I don't know how to satisfy those people. But I do want to at least like the characters in my film. I think that's so important. Character for me is almost more important than any plot. So you need to write great characters, but then you also need to cast for them because if you don't – you can write the best characters in the world. You cast wrong and you failed. So casting is everything to me. It really is. A few films back, I won't go into

details, obviously, but I made the vow after making this one film that I'll never have a weak link again in the cast because that one weak link will keep me up at night. And probably audiences don't even notice it. They don't even notice it if it's a supporting character. But for me, I'm neurotic. I'm crazy. It'll keep me thinking about that to the point where I'm, I'm just, I can't even live my life properly. It's something that, I know that sounds insane, but you don't understand these little things with, they're your baby and it takes, these films take you three years to make. And you, you feel as if, if that one mistake, like how could you let that slip? And then you just literally sit with that for years and it eats away with that.

I'm just racking my brain on the cast list of all your films and trying to figure out who is the – It's not even that bad. They did a fine job. It was more about the physicality. It's something in which I made the vow from that point on to never allow a weak link again in the cast. So what led you to casting a very well-known name in Willem Dafoe for Bobby? Well, we had to actually because, look, we're barely – we're at 5 million at the – almost 5 million at the box office right now. Isn't that great though?

I was going to ask you a pretty positively tipped question. It's an absolutely – the very fact that it's even in theaters, the very fact that A24 is even released in my film, 100 percent is great. But it's not like we're still – as a production, we're still in the red. Right. You know, we're very close, very close, like probably a few thousand dollars off from being in the black. But if we didn't have Willem Dafoe on this, we would never get in the black. And it's as simple as that. And it's as simple as that. That's just this industry. That's just the business that we're in. Audiences want,

I think subconsciously audiences need that one recognizable, at least one recognizable face. Some people like all recognizable faces. I notice that on my Twitter feed every day. Sometimes. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Oh, yeah. My mom saw the movie this weekend and I think she saw it because of Willem Dafoe. Oh, okay. She likes Willem Dafoe.

Great. She's a thoughtful film goer. That's fantastic. But, you know, that does work sometimes. Yeah. But then how do you go about choosing who the right recognizable face is? Well, then, okay. So, you know, I got a list of names and these guys are all available.

And we were looking for guys between the ages of 35 and 60. It wasn't like the motel managers that we had met. They spanned that age range. So we were open to seeing anybody in that age range. But then Willem's name came across the table and I was like, oh, of course. Yeah, why would I even bat an eye? I mean I know he's transformative. I know he's transformative.

I know he's great. He's been in some of my favorite films. Yeah, so it was simply about meeting him and then just seeing if we clicked, and we did. That's how that works. What's it like to throw such a seasoned movie actor into the environment that you're creating, which is different? Yeah, it's all really about personality.

Like some I've heard, and I've been lucky where I haven't had to work with any difficult actors, but I hear it's all about personality because Willem was 100% down to play with us. And he knew he was the one big recognizable face. He wanted to blend in himself. He didn't want, you know, he knew that there were lots of first timers. Imagine somebody coming in there and just being standoffish or like distant and not being collaborative or supportive. That would be terrible. But he was the opposite of that. He was actually giving Brio words of support.

I remember that day that we did the big steadicam shot where she puts the pad on the window and stuff. Like that was a big thing for her because she was 100% green coming into this. And yes, she had a month of workshopping and getting ready for that, but that was a big day for her. She was holding her own with Willem Dafoe and it was tough. And I saw that Willem was actually there to help her, you know, in case she was stumbled or in case she got intimidated, he was there, you know, so a seasoned actor with a good personality will be a real benefit actually. Do you think in a future film, you'll have a cast that is all seasoned actors? Um, no, no, no, because to tell you the truth, when I drive down the street and I see a

billboard and it's all like Academy Award winners and nominees, and they even say it, you know, Academy Award winner, and then like two-time nominee. And then there's not one new fresh face to this. I just say, why? I mean, I'm sure they're great and I'm sure they put on a great show, but for me, usually I'm looking for stories in which I can truly immerse myself and jump in fast. And I need my suspension of disbelief to kick in immediately. And plus, I just like fresh faces. I like, you know, Spike Lee used to do that all the time where he would bring fresh talent to the screen. And think of all the people he introduced and even like do the right thing.

I find it almost like a duty as a filmmaker to do that. Can you tell us one Brooklyn Prince story? She plays Mooney, the girl at the center of the story. There's been a lot talked about her. She's obviously a radiantly charismatic young girl. She is. Yeah, she's great. I mean, there are so many stories.

I don't even know where to begin. Would she like riff and create things on set or were you keeping her letter of the law? If I told her to. Yeah. Yeah. Because the thing is that she is wonderful at improv. And so if I needed it or wanted it or encouraged it at the, if we had time for it, yeah, I could totally rely on her. You know, there were obviously some times where I couldn't have them deviate from the written word simply because there's too much exposition there, or they have to get from point A to point B. But there were other times and especially scenes that were almost that required improvisation. When mother and daughter are trying to sell perfume,

those were real pedestrians. And I was shooting in a candid camera type style. So I had the, I had little Brooklyn mic'd and Bria mic'd and then I put an earpiece in Bria's ear and I just – I would sit there with the mic behind the monitor and I would tell her which people to go up to. And she would – I would give them sample lines but they were – they had to completely riff in the moment because they were approaching strangers and they had to gauge with a stranger and how to speak with that stranger. So that was them improvising 100%. The big scene at the end where she's eating at the higher end hotel, it's a brunch scene and we just sort of observe Brooklyn eating. That's mostly her. I mean, we had a few sample lines, but she got through those lines very quickly. And then it was just about me asking her questions. And Chris was also there, Chris Bergosh, my co-screenwriter, and my acting coach, Samantha Kwan. We were all behind the camera.

We were improvising ourselves. So if we came up with a line in the moment, we would feed it to her. She would feed it back to us, sometimes add her own thing. And it was really fun. Sometimes it's just asking her questions. You say, hey, I wonder what that strawberry and that raspberry tastes like together. Why don't you do that? And then she's smart enough where she'll say like, I'm going to eat a strawberry and a raspberry. So she's almost like doing an interview, like a junket where she knows to repeat the question, but she's repeating.

Yeah. She's really incredibly smart at the end of the day, every day, she would hate to go home because she loved doing it so much. And she was having so much fun and she was, every day, she would hate to go home because she loved doing it so much. And she was having so much fun. And she was, you know, because she's six years old, there's child labor laws. She can only be working for six hours in front of the camera for a total of eight hours on set. So when it reaches that, you know, 759, everyone's looking at their watch going like, get her off the property, you know, because it's a, it's the law. Did she feel like her friends were all hanging out and partying while she had to leave? Yeah. It was always a disappointment for her as she was, the car was taking her off. And what, what about Bria who, you know, as, as I mentioned,

you found her on Instagram, was she also able to kind of invent moments and have spontaneity or were you? Yes. Yes. That's the, I've been very lucky with actors throughout my entire career where I find these actors who are able to improvise and have comedic improvisation, which I, I, that's a whole other level for me. And this is, and Bria got better and better, but I've made sure that we were scheduling the early scenes that we were shooting with her, she could stick to the script. They were less wordy for her. But then as she got comfortable and as we were moving on, it was great. She was wonderful. The whole pool scene with her and Ashley, the other mom played by Mella Murder, we just basically put them in the pool and said, somehow or another, you guys are going to have to discuss being single moms.

Haley has to find a job and complain about the kids and make some jokes and talk about music and go. So that you can see how skilled they are because, yeah, we probably filmed them for about 30 minutes, but they gave me this really concise 20 seconds that cover basically everything I asked them to do and delivered it in such a way where it makes it like a really interesting, wonderful scene and shows their chemistry. Is there any part of you that had nerves about taking this approach, especially since it was more money and a bigger budget and a bigger story? Were you nervous heading into the production of the film? Yes and no. Yes, because I knew that there were people who hadn't worked with me before and would be fearful of my style.

I didn't realize that completely until I was there. And I did realize that's a reality. And I had to adjust. And I also had a lot of – I've learned a lot of lessons about a lot more communication in pre-production with everybody down to the PAs. If you deviate off the schedule, it throws a major monkey wrench into every department's work for that day. And I didn't, I used to, I never cared about that in the past. I would just, because I was working with everybody I knew and everybody was wearing many hats and I would just be like, guys, I'm shooting this now. We're, you know, sorry, you know, roll with me. but you can't do that when you have you

know a union crew and and everybody is thinks they know what they're doing for the day and suddenly i say shooting a totally different scene and then wardrobe and hair and everything would just be freaking out trying to figure out what i'm doing and so that's something that I realized was a problem did that create any chaos? yes it did but I think I had enough people around me who supported me and then were able to say

he's not as crazy as you think he is and then people eventually I think I adapted to them, they adapted to me and everything worked out. What is it like now being thrust into the spotlight of success? New York Film Critics Circle named you Best Director last week. That was an incredible honor.

People are seeing the movie. Like I said, my mom saw this movie. That's unusual for my mom. That's great. What is this like now? Having worked for 15 years as an independent filmmaker? Well, I guess – listen, I'm just so happy that my actors are getting recognition and there's that talk about Willem. That's great.

For me, I'm very – I'm happy that I think I'll be able to get financing for my next film without any problems. But there does seem to be this new weird pressure and which is something that we address at least a few minutes every day with my you know with my team where it's like now you wonder are you forced to go bigger like everybody just assumes oh you want to go bigger you're going to go to 12 million i was was like, well, what if I actually wanted to scale back? What? How could you? No, no. Like a movie, like, you know, it wouldn't be as low budget as Tangerine, but it would be, it would be the style of Tangerine, like a total running gun, guerrilla stuff. Yeah. I'll use recognizable actors and I'll, you have a bigger budget, but why can't I go smaller? Why would you want to do that? That's terrible. That's a step back. And you're going to look terrible in the industry, in the eyes of the industry.

I'm like, but I've been independent for all these years anyway. Who cares? So I don't even know. It's a weird new pressure that comes on. That's just something I wish I didn't have to deal with. Yeah, as you've said before, there's always an expectation to go up and up and up. Yeah. So do you not have a drawer full of stories that you want to tell that require CGI and Meryl Streep and all these other things? No, I did. But I don't think they're the best.

And then also the other pressure is what do you follow up with that then people think is an appropriate follow up? You know, that's another thing. Like you asked me earlier, you show marginalized people and this and that. people think is an appropriate follow-up. You know, that's another thing. Like you asked me earlier, you show marginalized people and this and that. What if I don't on the next one? Are people going to be upset at me? Are people going to be upset if I make a puppet film all of a sudden? Does it matter to you?

Well, listen, I don't know if it matters. Craig, the Bunny fans would be excited about a puppet film. Yeah. And we were actually, we had one ready to go. I mean, we had a full-on puppet thriller. I mean now I hear that that Henson film is actually moving forward. So it probably would have killed it anyway. But like what if I went in that direction? Would people then say, oh, he was the hack we always thought he was?

I mean I don't know. Do people think you were a hack? Well, you know, meaning that like, oh, he wasn't sincere in the stories he wanted to tell. You know, I see that stuff on Twitter. You know, people saying, let's see what he does next to see if he's sincere. I mean, like that pressure is just like something like,

I just want to tell like human stories. And I mean, yes, as I've gotten older, I do. I do realize that the careers that inspire me the most are people like Ken Loach. And if I'm being compared to him now, that's an amazing thing. a lack of storytelling in cinema these days that focuses on, you know, contemporary and timely political issues that are done in a way that focuses on the micro and not instead of the macro. If I'm doing that and, and I'm inspired to do more of those, that's, that's awesome. That's great thing. But I'm just saying there's also that pressure of like what if I tell just a small story of one or two people and it doesn't exactly cover a topic or an issue or something that people consider what my other films have been doing. Am I going to be held – is that going to be held against me?

There's that weird pressure. As we get to the end of this conversation, I want to – if you haven't seen the film, go see The Florida Project. You can cut all that stuff out. No, no, that's all important. It's interesting because, you know, inevitably I would get to a point where I'll say like, well, what's next for you? And I don't have to do that because I know that you're figuring that out. And also you're at that unique moment where there may be a huge opportunity or there may be an opportunity that you want to just keep going left where everybody else goes right. Yeah.

I do want to say, though, that I do write my own films, even if it's a co-writing thing. So you're not looking for scripts guys, not looking for We'll note that you can put that on Twitter if you want. Yeah. Yeah. So legally I'm just not allowed to look at them. You know, then these days it gets so, is that true? So scary. Yeah. I mean, my agents are like, no way, you know, make sure you don't ever open up anything. In the event you don't, through osmosis, pick something up. Yeah. So let's just talk quickly about the ending of the Florida Project.

Sure. Which is beautiful, and I kind of wanted to understand how you arrived at the choices that you made. Sure. It was an image or an idea that Chris and I had from almost day one. We were brainstorming on the phone when he first sent me those news articles. And we both, I don't know who said it, but we both said it. We both agreed on that initial phone call, I think, that it was going to be some sort of escape to the parks. And whether it was going to be literal or not, that was to be worked out down the line. And it was still the argument all the way into production, whether we

were going to try to show whether it could be literal or not. And I was like, no, it's, it should be, it should be something that can be completely interpreted. But then it's, it's also pretty obvious to me what, what the ending means. I don't like to really talk too much about it because, again, I think it's something that does spark discussion. And that's the intention behind it. But, you know, obviously there is a reason we're cutting from one medium to another. And then also the ending, suddenly we have for the first time a score. You know, we haven't heard a score for an hour and 50 minutes and suddenly we have for the first time a score, you know, we haven't heard a score for an hour and 50 minutes and suddenly we do. I mean, we're, we're definitely telling the audience that

they should question whether this is real or not. It has a magically real quality. So basically I'll leave it at that. Yeah. Understood. Uh, I like to end these by asking what's the last great thing that you've seen? Oh, what is the last great thing you've seen? Oh, wow. The last thing that I truly loved, loved, loved was BPM. Yeah, talk about that. No one has spoken about that film on the show. What did you like about it? I thought it could have been a very simple and almost generic look at the history of this, of this group, but instead of act up

and instead the director took it to a whole other level where actually I, I feel as if, you know, he, he has, you know, a little bit of magical realism in there, at least in this style. It's not just docu style. He brings it to another level. And plus it's an incredibly moving film and the performances are just truly amazing. And, uh, and it's, um,

so I, I think it's an impressive, really, uh, impressive on all levels. And, um, and people should try to see it in this,

in the theaters, but I don't think they can anymore, but I think it's being, it's, it's one of it's shortlisted, right? For the, uh,

I suspect it will be nominated. It'll probably be nominated. Yeah. For best foreign. It's a French film by the I suspect it will be nominated. It will probably be nominated, yeah, for Best Foreign. It's a French film, by the way. And so it's about the history of the early days of ACT UP in France. I highly recommend it. I love it. I highly recommend The Florida Project, Sean Baker.

Thanks for coming in today. Thank you.