The Big Picture - ‘Speak No Evil’ and the Top Five “Get Me the F--- Out of Here” Movies, With James McAvoy!

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

Sean and Amanda are joined by Chris Ryan to discuss ‘Speak No Evil,’ James Watkins’s reimagination of the 2022 Danish psychological horror film (1:00). Then, they discuss other movies that inspire the sensation of needing to get the f--- out of danger and share their top five in the subgenre (1:06:00). Finally, Sean is joined by Watkins and ‘Speak No Evil’ star James McAvoy to discuss why they wanted to remake the film, tapping into darker parts of the human psyche, and the physicality that goes into creating a thriller like this (1:40:00). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Chris Ryan, James McAvoy, and James Watkins Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Video Producer: Jack Sanders Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In the summer of 1999, thousands attended what would be the final iteration of the Woodstock Music Festivals. But unlike its namesake, Woodstock 99 was not about peace and love. Join me as I dive deep into this story about music, mud, violence, and tragedy. From Spotify and the Ringer Podcast Network, I'm Stephen Hyden, and this is Break Stuff, the story of Woodstock 99. Available Tuesday, August 27th.

I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about speaking evil. Today on the show, we're discussing the new vacation horror thriller speak no evil and we're also sharing our top five get me the fuck out of here movies what does that mean you'll know if you've ever seen one joining us of course to talk about these kinds of movies and speak no evil chris ryan cr thanks for having me guys thanks for being here after you're on uh-huh we have a couple of special guests. Turns out James McAvoy and James Watkins,

the star and writer-director of this new movie, are going to be on the pod. Are they behind that curtain right there? They're not. Are you okay opening for these guys? Yeah. Thank you for letting me know. I was going to say.

Often you will let me make a complete hippopotamus of myself and then be like, and I have Denis Villeneuve. Coming up next, the spirit of Yasujiro Ozu. Thank you so much for being on the show, Chris. Obviously, McAvoy is a big fucking movie star and is quite amusing

in this movie, which we will talk about shortly. Great to talk to him and Watkins, who's a very good horror filmmaker himself. Before we get into that, I have a couple things

I want to talk to you guys about. The first is that Juror No. 2, the latest film from the nonagenarian hero of American cinema, Clint Eastwood, has been dated on November 1st in limited release. This movie will be coming out. It's closing the AFI Film Festival. Amanda, you say what? And then will it open wider for Election Day? It's a very good question. Listen, I noted the date. I noted with interest, as you both like to say.

Well, the movie, I think, is going to get platformed. Sure. So based on how it performs on the first might indicate how much more widely... So we got to show up twice that weekend. Yes. We got to vote early. Stay in line. And then we got to stay in line for Clinton.

So if we're in Trump Town on November 8th, will it go more wide or less wide? I mean. Gut call. More? Is Trump a Clint guy? And are Clint guys Trump guys? I don't think so. In some way, this is an age issue, right?

That's true. You know what I'm saying? And this is like Clint lost his parking spot on the Warner Brothers lot. And so people of a certain age are going to relate to their rights being slowly diminished because of senility. Did you see the picture of Nicholas Holt

and Clint Eastwood on set together? I did not. And it's like, Nicholas Holt looks like Nicholas Holt and then it looks like he found his grandpa at the library. Just be nice. I'm being nice. He's 90 something years old.

I'm looking forward to Jura number two. Yeah, sure. I hope it will be good. I hope, I'd like it to be I expect it to be a little better than Cry Macho and a little worse than Richard Jewell. That's my POV. And a lot worse than the Mule. Which was good. We liked the Mule. Cry Macho.

Cry Macho I was pretty mixed on. But I'm happy you tried there was cock fighting in that there was there was fighting yeah macho cock fighting I saw it

yeah you know it was solid Richard Jewell a brave film yeah the mule remarkable

truly an astounding achievement do you only know four Clint Eastwood movies you keep repeating? No, I'm just thinking of 85 plus. Okay.

Sully is probably 85 plus as well. I think it's just shy of it but Sully is a very good movie of course. An American Sniper was post 80. It was.

And Chris loved the 1517 to Paris and you loved Jersey Boys. So things are going really well for Late Period Clint. I never saw Jersey Boys. Maybe I should see that well for Late Period Clint. I never saw Jersey Boys.

Maybe I should see that. I would say he should not have made that movie. That's something. I don't really know anything other than that's my opinion about that. So that's exciting news. That's another film this fall.

Unfortunately, you'll be missing it. It certainly sounds like you'll be missing the film The Brutalist. I told Chris on the show on Tuesday The Brutalist was acquired by A24. I heard. I listened.

And then I got really annoyed and turned it off. I watched a 45-second video of Corbett talking about VistaVision and getting the maximum amount out of it. This is what's being served to you next to the guy who's like, let me hack into all of your systems to find out where this

truck is. No, the geolocator stuff is actually, I'm not ashamed of that, I don't think. But he's just, he's creeping but open about it. Yeah, but he's creeping about people who are like, guess where I am. No, I know. But when you described it to me, and even, and I did listen to this part of the podcast. I listen to all of your podcasts. I want you to know I'm always here.

I'm always listening. And that's something to remember in the coming months. Oh, as we further. I will be content creating with that in mind exclusively. I'm always there. But when you described the guy who's like, oh, let's find out where this truck is. It's in North Macedonia.

It sort of sounded like... This is the social media content creator. It was sort of like you would show... It sounded like he just looked at a picture and then either because he knows a lot about trucks or because he knows a lot about roads was able to like geolocate it. Then we had a very lovely in-person experience, which maybe we should turn into a video franchise of you and me watching where you just pulled it up on YouTube and we watched it together. And I was like, oh, okay, so this man is just accessing all

the mainframes. He is. He hacked into a couple of security cameras, but they were publicly available. Bobby, have you ever seen any Rainbolt videos? No, they haven't come across my timeline yet. Well, good news. We're all saying this out loud. AI will be feeding it to you immediately. So you're getting Rainbolt and you're getting

Mr. Vox Lux, man. The thing about you, Chris, is that you move through them Lux, man. You really, the thing about you, Chris, is that you move through them quick, man. Like you have a new obsession that's getting served to you like every three weeks. I can't really control that. You take no responsibility.

Yeah, I mean, I think that like I got very into this. At some point, it'll notice that I haven't been staying on those videos very long and then it'll start serving me something else. Are you prepared to apologize to Brady Corbett? No, because I haven't seen the movie yet,

nor have you. I haven't. But I have seen Vox Lux, which even you on the podcast were just like, that was insufferable. Not a fan of the film. So I'm just... Not afraid to say it.

I'm waiting. Did you know that VistaVision film runs horizontally through the gate? So you have to account for it when you're doing steady cam shots. Okay, so will you be going cinema to cinema to make sure that it's that's the road show is me showing up being like it looks great you know what they should do for megalopolis is you should be the guy at every screening i agree in the guy who interacts with the screen it goes from 5 million

tracking to 300 million and then you're in charge of transporting every single canister of 70 millimeter of the brutalist to its next location i wouldn't mind that job i don't really love la traffic but it wouldn't be when we saw apocalypse now in 70 the egyptian there was a pre-show and they showed us how the humans who are responsible for transporting these canisters have hard work. There literally was video of a man being like, I have 20,000 pounds of cinema in the back of my van. Right, and I have a full-grown child in my stomach right now.

So I'm not that important. What will be the greater masterpiece? That's the question we must ask ourselves. Do you think your child is going to be more important than Apocalypse Now? One film will be immortal and one human will not. That's a great point. You're right.

When you look at it that way, I, maybe it's great, you know, but I need to hear less about film canisters. There I am. Can I zag for a second?

Yeah. I just wanted to ask you guys, I've been watching the Twilight films recently. And I realized I don't think I ever saw Breaking Dawn part two

oh with the baby the final film did you know the werewolf falls in love with a baby yes of course I did yeah yeah it's insane

it's amazing what we got away with back then and what the baby looks like before cancel culture which is like in terms of like top babies cancel culture made

so that a werewolf can love. We can't have werewolves. Yeah. But like, here we go. Here we go. Top tech babies. What was the baby? Esme?

Renesme. Renesme. Oh, sure. Yeah. Number one, still American sniper plastic baby. And then number two, wherever they found that creature. I know. It's so fucked up.

Those films were the first time I realized I was no longer able to analyze kitsch culture for youth. Like, people were like, I love those movies. I was like, surely you must be joking. The first one is honestly a pretty good weird TV. First one's really good. Second one's pretty cool. Third one is eh.

And then they are crazy. Because at some point they have to go to Italy, right? To see the Volturi. Yeah. Oh, sure. Of course. Incredible video series idea where Chris just talks about, because at some point they have to go to Italy to see the Volturi oh sure of course incredible video series idea where Chris just talks about like the one thing

that he missed 10 years ago I didn't miss it the video series is Chris hauling a 70mm canister up a hill and then we reveal that it's Breaking Dawn Part 2 on 70mm and we all get to watch it together we've been watching them Of Breaking Dawn Part 2. And then we reveal that it's Breaking Dawn Part 2 on 70mm. The reason I thought about this

is because we've been watching them and like we've been getting bombarded by Twilight content in our phones. Yeah. Which means our phones are listening to what we're watching.

Well, sure. Were you more of an Edward or what's the other guy's name who can't act? Jacob. Jacob. Yeah. Was that Taylor Lautner?

He gets better as the movies go along. Taylor Lautner. No, he does not. Is he alive? Taylor Lautner? Where is he? He has a. Taylor Lautner. No, he does not. Is he alive? Taylor Lautner? Where is he? He has a pod with his wife. No, he does not.

He came out on stage at the Heiress Tour. He came out on stage at the Heiress Tour. On stage? Well, that just tells you everything you need to know about the Heiress Tour. Are you fucking kidding me? He came out back to December, which is a very patronizing song about him. Robert Pattinson's out here making movies with Zendaya and Matt Reeves, and Taylor Lautner's getting on stage at the Arrows Tour.

I think we know who won that battle. I think we were all agreed beforehand. It's true, it's true. You know. He was a wolf, and Edward was a vampire. And she was a girl. And we're obvious. We're off to a rip-roaring start on this episode.

I'd like to bring this energy to Speak No Evil no evil okay you don't want to take it seriously no i do want to take it seriously but i want to have fun with it because i think it's a pretty fun movie and i have to be honest a lot of the a lot of the film community has been pretty grumpy yeah a lot of complaining about how many times you've had to see the trailer which you know, that's about supporting cinema. I have my gripes with the trailer. As I told you guys when I first saw it, I didn't, I still don't really understand why they've decided to promote this movie

by giving away so much of the movie. I don't think that that was a good idea. Obviously there is an original film. This is a remake of a 2022 Danish film that Christian Taftrup directed. But there, I saw that movie on my couch at midnight during virtual Sundance. And I was like, dear God, it was one of the bleakest films really of the century. It is so disturbing and very effective.

This new film, this remake is different. And we will talk about some of those differences. But the twist when you were watching the original where i was like wait what wait what wait a lot of those feelings were in that trailer so in addition to the fact that they seem to be running this trailer non-stop in front of every movie for three months it's giving away a lot that's not ideal and i i agree with you we we've all kind of griped about that collectively over the last few years where like the art of the trailer is a little bit

lost. You're a little grumpy about the Gladiator 2 trailer. I was. I was. There's a new one coming.

I won't watch it. I now subscribe to the Chris Ryan theory of one is enough and even one is sometimes too much. I try to avoid them. I've gone teaser only.

And I also try to arrive too late to the movie theater to see the trailers. I've been trying to do the same thing even though I used to love seeing trailers when I was a kid. But I got lost recently at one of them. What do you mean? Well, I arrived too late, and then I couldn't remember what theater I was going to.

Did you miss the movie? No, I mean, I eventually got there, but it was... Was it The Burlust? You were three hours and 17 minutes late. You were in a canal in Venice. Damn. Yeah. you were three hours and 17 you were in a canal in Venice yeah but and like I couldn't find anyone who had like a guide to the theaters and now the theaters aren't posting what movie was this like

the minotaur's maze of movie no it was at the once again the Americana like you know my crisis center and I was just like wandering into different theaters and I was like oh well that's another is this this ends with us and that's another you know Pokemon or whatever one thing I one thing I do miss about old school movie theaters is when there was the actual proper marquee with like the banner from the marketing materials of the movie yeah now it's just digital in some cases not at all yeah anyhow the trailer thing is not ideal with this movie there are some people who are like, God, get these trailers off. And they're turned off by the movie. I think that's a lot of internet noise, ultimately.

Also, probably that's my algorithm, you know? Yeah, yeah. Because I was like hiding all of the 70 millimeter tweets. And then they were like, well, instead, let me give you. You were hiding the 70 millimeter tweets? It's been like a very long couple weeks in my house. And I just need you to be supportive. You know?

We're all... We gotta get Knox into geoguessing. I think he'd be very good. He loves trucks. That is true. But see, that's what I thought. We gotta get him into hauling 70mm canisters. That's what we gotta get him.

This trailer discussion brings up the major kind of talking point for me about this movie. Which is, if you're interested in this film and interested in this story. And speak no evil and not the brutalist. Speak no evil. Okay. How is it possible that you don't just want to watch the original, right? Like who, it's basically who is, not

who is this movie for, like. Hi! So, I think that's helpful. It's so nice to see you. Hi. I think that it's nice that we're all talking about this together. I did it as a bit, right? You know, like because you guys had explained the Danish film to me famously several years ago and that lived with me. And then that was like a rare case where I got feedback from other people who listened to the podcast. We're like, I watched that movie that Sean described to you

and that was like really fucked up. Like I should have heeded the warning. But so then we were invited to see it together. And I was like, okay, you know, I could either do the prep or I could play the part of the person who has only seen, you know, the dumb American version. No, I think that's good that you haven't seen the original and we can talk about the comparisons of the two

but also like you know I really like James McAvoy yeah but you also like subtitles that's true but here's the trick of the original film is most of it is in English because it is a film about a Dutch couple and a Danish couple and they both speak English because that's their

common language it's not because it's a foreign film it's because it's a depraved horror film. And I was like, well, I don't know if I need to see what you've described to me. And you were a new mother at the time when it came out. And it's a film about child rearing in one form or another. This new film has basically the same general outline, which is that a couple on a Tuscan vacation

encounter another couple. Both of these couples have young children between the ages of like five and nine, and they hit it off on vacation. And one couple invites the other to come visit them in their home on another vacation, essentially, because they've gotten along so well on this vacation. This very quickly escalates into a kind of psychological and then ultimately physical nightmare. The two films are very different, though, in the way that they, like, unfurl the nightmare particularly.

This new film, I would say, is ultimately more of a thriller than a horror movie. Do you agree with that? Yes. Very consciously so. Yeah. Why do you think they made that change

out of curiosity? I was going gonna ask a little bit is now when we get to talk about like scandinavian hosting rituals uh if you'd like well you know some of it is i guess they dumbed it down or tried to broaden it for american an american audience i think soften it soften it and there is your point about subtitles and under estimating all audiences but i do think that this is a slightly more i mean this is a movie about american cultural you know norms or assumptions in a lot of ways even even though it's set in England. And I think Americans are very different socially than Scandinavians. And I don't mean that Scandinavians are trying to kill everyone all the time.

Just not all the time. Not all the time. Well, Holland is not Scandinavia, right? It's the Netherlands. Oh, it's the Netherlands? So it's the Dutch couple is hosting the Danish couple. Oh, right. And the Dutch are universally understood to be weird by other Europeans, right?

Not commenting on that. To all of our Dutch listeners, I want to say thank you for patronizing this podcast. I don't know. You said the Scandinavians are murderers. Yeah. And the Dutch are weird. The Do Not Fly list is growing longer by the moment. Enjoy your time.

Well, it is true that one of the American version, this new version, does preserve a few jokes at the Dutch people's expense.

Yes, it does. Right? Very amusingly. Right, which is like so trying to bring in some of that. They're very parsimonious with toilet paper, apparently.

Right. And then, don't you guys remember that tweet thread about like going to someone's home in Sweden and then waiting upstairs, like going to your friend's house in Sweden and waiting upstairs while the Swedes have dinner by themselves? I don't know if I know about that, but actually in the original film, there are a lot of jokes at the Swedes expense. Right. Between the Danish and the Dutch. Yeah.

So all's to say, this is a Swedish-owned company here, Spotify. film there are a lot of jokes at the Swedes expense between the Danish and the Dutch so all's to say this is a Swedish owned company here Spotify we won't be besmirching the nations of Scandinavia or elsewhere in Europe but the movie both movies are about kind of culture clash you know but they're different cultures and so different

sensibilities and I think some of this movie the original film I would say the incredibly bleak film my reading of it is that it is about is a kind of indictment of bourgeois stagnation of of like upper middle class complacency and the like comfort and ease and the way that we take things for granted and then sometimes you can be met by the profundity of evil really like the profundity of darkness and how. Like the profundity of darkness. And how it can rip everything apart and how you have no control over anything, even though you think life is just this like ever-flowing soft river of contentment.

But that's way too nihilist for Americans. It's 100%. Then that's my point. I was actually wondering whether or not, I don't know if you got a chance to ask James McAvoy about this, and I wouldn't want to spoil it, but whether or not a global movie star would participate in the original ending. Like whether or not they would be able to get over that being something that their character

does. Because like once you get to a certain level of celebrity and once you get to a certain level of notoriety as an actor, I think you're very self-conscious with how you're perceived, right? I don't think it was even on the table to pursue the original ending because I think what the new movie is about, and we can start to get into the details a little bit, but I don't want to spoil the movie too much before people have had a chance to see it. This movie just is clearly just about toxic masculinity.

And there's the Patrick character from the original film is somewhat similar to the Patty character that McAvoy plays in this movie, the sort of the paterfamilias, the host, but the Patty character is way more extreme and way more the leader than in the original film. The Aisling Franciosi character who's McAvoy's character's wife in the movie is almost like a surrogate or like an employee to his. She's almost like a cult member, yes right yes to like the grander scheme that is happening underneath the movie that's not how it is in the original the

original is way more like ambient and doom like yeah where you're like why is this happening nothing is really explained there are no big monologues it is very procedural like the first one i think you're you're on to something there where it was what you said earlier about them why are the shoes wooden the original film is like there's this veneer or this like tissue that stops us from going into the void and like we think we're going on vacation but really we're going to a completely strange land you know what I mean and it really depends on your pov but it's like once you slide down this rabbit hole of what if we were just in the hands of just truly evil people like would there be a basically infrastructure or support system to keep us

safe no there isn't yeah this one is way more i think it's like timely now and there's a lot of really kind of frankly astute little observations I think it's really smart very right now I wonder whether it will feel a bit dated in 10 years

it's possible but I found it to be as like a social commentary and like a sly kind of lampooning of certain traits in

men's culture right now pretty good I think you could make the case that it actually is working at its best when it's like a comedy of manners and a satire than when it is like a pure scary movie about bad people. Like most of that stuff works. It's like conventionally entertaining. But I agree.

Like I think it's really well observed. Yes. It's toxic masculinity for sure. Also, there is a lot of parenting stuff in it as well, which is very funny to watch. And I'm sure that you and I will, all of these little things where you're like, oh, okay. Like check, check, check, check. And it, the way that Mackenzie Davis is dressed, I'm like, okay, like I know who these people are. I get it. And all of it is very deliberate and very effective, I think. Yeah, I thought so too. So I thought we should open this conversation about the movie itself by talking about ourselves, which is like vacation friends. We may have joked about this

when the original came out. I am just broadly mystified by this trend or seeming trend or maybe it's just invented for this. But going on vacation, I don't want to meet new people. That's not really one of my goals.

That's going to come as a shock to our listeners. It doesn't mean I'm against having pleasant conversation with strangers. I'm not. I'm happy to be cordial. Don't be rude. I'm more cordial with strangers than I am with my friends.

No, that is true. And it is like a dial that you turn on. It's like the taxi light. And we're just like, sure, okay. I will decide to be sociable, charming Sean. But I don't want to pursue that any further than the vacation. Okay. Do you guys agree with that?

Yeah, I think this is absolutely psychotic. Of course. And I said that to you the first time. And I, well, I don't really want to meet new people on vacation either. Which I guess is not a surprise to anyone who's listening to this. Yeah, I think this might be a you guys problem. I mean, you guys are more sociable than both of us.

Just like in general. I guess so. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm open to the experience. You never know who you're going to meet. Yeah. You know, what if... Maybe it will be the person

who destroys your life forever. Or what if it was like, like a guy who's like the quarterback's coach for the Jets and was like, do you want to hang out and come to practice and stuff?

That's the last person I want to see right now. They didn't do good, right? They didn't do good. No good. But the Mets are doing okay, right? They're doing very well. The thing that this movie does, because it's a movie, is it makes this jump that these people that you meet on vacation, then you get kind of like loose paired with and sort of making jokes about other people at this resort that they're at or this hotel, that they would continue this relationship based on a blind letter sent. That's just like, you got to come visit us. Everybody knows that

if you met somebody like at a hotel or like an event or something like that, and it was like the two couples got along, you'd start a group chat and you would kind of feel each other out a little bit. Send some memes. Send some fucking funny gifs. You know what I mean? See who's laughing at what. What memes would you be sending? Like the Vince McMahon meme

or like the brain meme? Galaxy brain? You know, some of your reels. Traffic will go towards it. Record scratch. You might be wondering how I got here. Benicio Del Toro firing the semi-automatic gun really fast.

Yeah, that's good. Damn, the Soldado meme. And then if they laugh at that, you're like, maybe we've got something. You know? I don't know.

I mean, it's a real, like, 30 Rock, like, never go with a hippie to a second location situation, but the hippie in this case is people you've only met once.

Fair enough. I've never hung out after vacation with people I've met on vacation. If you lived in the same city and you don't have to commit to staying in someone else's home, maybe you could hang out. I find it much more difficult, I think, probably if this was more of a New York thing when we were all in the same buildings, but it would be, I was a little bit more allergic to becoming friends with our neighbors because I didn't like the idea that I would be like every single But it would be, I was a little bit more allergic to becoming friends with our neighbors. Because I didn't like the idea that I would be like every single time I see you, I have to make small talk or something like that. My neighbors are listening right now, probably.

Hi, Gina and Aris. I love you very much. They're lovely. They're lovely people. Would you go on vacation with them? They travel a lot. And they're younger. And they have like a real zest for the world.

So, sure. But I know them. Are they Dutch? I don't think so. And they're younger and they have like a real zest for the world. So sure. Okay. But I know them. Are they Dutch? I don't think so. I want to check that out. I know. I know.

They're going to be like really, really bad for me. Anyway. Yeah. For the record, I have Dutch heritage. Well, that's not surprising. I obviously would never do this there is a little bit of a it stretches the belief I think

signing up to go on a trip like this in the original film I think it's a little bit more credible because one the Dutch couple is introduced in a more grand environment where like many many couples are dining together and we see the Dutch couple kind of like leading the charge socially it's not this much more contained

experience where the English couple you of like leading the charge socially. It's not this much more contained experience where the English couple, you know, portrayed by McAvoy and Franciosi are like almost like mocking everyone around them in a way. I think they're making these people feel comfortable by being like, we can laugh at everybody here. Yes. Yeah. But even from the beginning, they're also portrayed as like the noisy. They're the, James McAvoy is the one like dragging the resort chair that's true i mean this movie is that app happens almost exactly in the original well another reason i don't really like resorts that much as we've discussed well i don't because there's so many

people and you know and then they're just like doing their random shit yeah but they but these people are at first doing their random shit just doing their random shit. Being alive. I didn't go on vacation to be around other people doing their random shit. What is the most minor thing you've ever complained about at a hotel? Oh, boy. Oh, my God. Come on. Are you kidding? Just asking.

This is why. But you say that as if you also aren't in this sphere of someone with stasis. I have my own war stories. There's a lot of othering of me on this pod as being a weird person. But you guys in any hotel ever were psycho. Listen, never accept the first offer. That's true in business and that's true in a hotel room. Sure, okay.

No, I'm serious because they always have more inventory and they're going to give you the least desirable thing that they have available. And you can very politely say, I would prefer not to be right next to the elevator, ice machine, air shaft extravaganza. Where like 84 people are smoking. Do you volunteer to record yourself in every hotel service worker's interaction going forward? Excuse me, sir. I would like a window, you know? And then they're like, oh, we didn't know. And now here's a room with a window.

Just consider it. Do you take my offer or not? Dude, when you get upgraded at a hotel, are you like, that's so cool. Thank you. I hug the man who upgrades me. But you're not being upgraded. What do you mean? They're just putting you in a shitty room that they're like, oh, we got a nice.

It's like, do you guys think you're like the head of the better business bureau or something like get over it you know what i don't do yet but like i i have real aspirations of becoming just like enough of a boss to do this we have a a friend's mother, when they would arrive at a hotel, they check in and then she leaves the bags at the front desk and is like, you can show me the hotel room now and we'll decide whether we bring the bags up. I still haven't done it, but that is just inspiring stuff. I find that disgusting. I think that is despicable behavior. It's not.

They didn't build the hotel. You know that, right? It's not like they're like, this is a reflection of my... You're not spitting in their face while they're doing it. You're not making it harder on the hotelier. You're making it harder on the people who work there. It's not that hard to go click, click, click and move me into another room if it's like... It's too hot in one place.

You don't scream at them. You don't, you know. You just ask. I'm sure you're always super polite and calm. Absolutely. Guys, come on be real be real with me come on i know how this works i've been on vacation that's why you're in line at 5 a.m for the damn resort chair you know the james mcavoy dragged to the other part of the

that may be true yeah sometimes you have to suffer for pleasure maybe you have too much scoot mcnary energy yeah energy. This is a hardcore Catholic upbringing versus whatever you guys are. That's what this is. I could not agree more. I'm sitting here the whole time thinking I would never ask for anything else. I'm not asking for anything else.

I'm not like I expect to be upgraded to a suite. I'm just like, hey man, the air conditioning is not working in this room. Do you think I could get another? Or hey, do you have anything available on a higher floor? And it's always super nice. I'm never like a fucking dick. If you do I would prefer that. Give me your manager. I'm not saying that's a

bad idea. I'm just saying I can't do it. I just can't do it. I've never asked for a manager in my life. Not even on a customer service call? People are just lying right now. These are just lies. I've never asked for the manager. You know me. Has your partner asked for a manager I'm not gonna talk about that

I refuse to talk about that and if you don't want me to be on this pod anymore that's fine I'll leave I'm gonna pivot us back to the movie

anyway we won't make hotel friends. No, but so these are the annoying people. That's how they're presented. You're right. They're more boisterous and they're drawing attention to themselves. But also, they have that. There is also, I think, some sort of class element like implied that is, as I understand it, different from the original.

Because Scoot McNary, well, and it's also, I mean, it's Scoot McNary and Mackenzie Davis' characters are American. It's interesting because like they're, I think that they're supposed to have the trappings of like upper middle class, upper class life, but he's unemployed. Exactly. And is going through a depressive episode.

There's some infidelity going on. And I think it's supposed to be like they've arrived at this place, this plateau in their life where they're like, oh, our lives are actually more hollow than we thought they were going to be once we arrived here.

Whereas the James McAvoy character is like, I live free and my life is full. And so Scoot McNary wants a taste of that. Hence why he accepts this invitation. He is a kind of, he's presented as like a bon vivant. He's like drinking the giant glass of Barolo and, you know, lapping up telling stories

and he's a doctor and he's a man of the world and he's got this beautiful, young, passionate wife and a beautiful, perfect family. And so there's this sense of, it's not just the cultural clash. It's sort of like, I don't know. It's not that it's class per se that is being undermined.

Well, maybe, I mean, they're like, they're signaling certain things about their class and also how that affects their various levels of confidence. And, you know, just kind of the assumptions they're making about themselves and about other people. Yeah. I think there's also a little bit of a, and this is a difference from the original, like a city dweller versus the sort of like living in the country. You guys are all like, your faces are in your phones all the time.

Right. You don't feel things. Which I think is pretty on point. Like pretty, like you said, like smartly observed, except when it, I think, I'm curious what you guys think this movie actually kind of means about that like how what it actually is trying to represent we're like is it that everyone who's between the ages of 35 and 50 is kind of like unhappy and corrosive in their own ways whether they're actually psychotic or just miserable in their marriages or is this just like a suitable setup for a thriller i don't know because the movie does have a lot of clearly has a lot of ideas so So does it have any follow through on those ideas?

It's a trope in these movies going back to as far as I can remember watching them. Like these kinds of movies, whether it's an adult thriller or even horror, where you're basically taking a very passive,

kind of infantilized guy and then throwing him into a very physical world. And he comes out the other side either changed right and realizes now i now i'm fully back in touch with the core man inside of me or dead so straw dogs i think has been the movie that this has been most compared to deliverance these are these are kind of hallmarks for like scoo mcnary your boy your ever-loving boy, is just a mega beta in this movie. He is the beta-ist

of beta. He has been cuckolded. He's driving a Tesla. He doesn't know how to communicate with anyone except for his daughter. More or less beta than his character in Gone Girl, which I had forgotten about until he showed up when we hosted the Gone Girl screening. Just a remarkable four-minute

performance. He is so funny and desperate in that movie. But it does feel when we did the hosted the Gone Girl screening just a remarkable four minute performance he is so funny and desperate in that movie but it does feel that guy seems almost like the sequel in this movie

whereas the McAvoy character one McAvoy in this movie is huge I did talk to him a bit about that in the interview and he explained

why he was so huge but he's hulking almost and he's got this scraggly facial hair and he is wears flannel boots he's like a man's man and he's chewing with his Yeah. And he's got this scraggly facial hair and he is Where's flannel? Yeah.

He's like a man's man and he's chewing with his mouth open and he's guzzling drinks and he's grabbing his wife you know very physical with her and they're just like

a contrast of terms. The two women are interesting like I don't I didn't feel like the two women were particularly fleshed out

in the original film. I feel like they're more fleshed out in this movie. I think some of that is just um that you have like maybe slightly more well-known actresses to me too so maybe i bring more to it but mackenzie davis i feel like her character has like a way more important role yeah i would say the big distinction between the two films is that the european version pretty much gives no time to the backstory of characters. It's just like, this is happening and this happened to these people. Whereas this film is like, all these elements of their personalities led them to this crucible and they'll be changed

forever by it. Right. Would you move to London for a job? Maybe. Yeah. I mean, yes. But then I was like, oh shit, I have children now, you know? So I would have to think about that. But also, yeah, seems great. Would you bring your children to a stranger's house for vacation? No, but I also, but some of that is like, I wouldn't bring myself, you know? Given what we now know about you and your hotel uh traditions how many weird things would have to happen in this stranger's home before you took your child out of the house i could definitely see and i mean this respectfully because i'm in a similar situation

just like leaving in the middle of the night you just be like let's just go we'll never even acknowledge well yeah there is there is one incident and i i mean i know you guys just think i'm like a raging asshole um and and to you guys and you do and to you and to you i often am i'm not denying the accusation i think that like once i were there i would be i would feel a little more self-conscious and like trying to make everything go along like i you, you know, I was raised in Atlanta, so there is some of that Southern like, no, no,

no. We just have to like make everything. Okay. Make everything. Okay. Make everything. Okay. I mean,

that's not my experience with Atlanta Braves fans is that they make everything. Okay. Right out of the, right out of the stadium. Every, every September. And I have, I've fully renounced the Braves, okay?

I ordered my son a t-shirt featuring the Philly fanatic, gritty Benjamin Franklin, and swoop crossing the Delaware. Mr. Met and Woody Johnson, former ambassador to Donald Trump from England, speaking of. Is this movie a metaphor for Woody Johnson being the ambassador to England? That is my question. But anyway, I... I can't do better. That's the most me joke I can make. I literally can't do better than that.

The point you're making is exactly what I wanted to get into. Yeah. The genius of the original movie and maybe even this movie even more so is the peer pressure of social expectation. Yes. That when you get yourself

in a social situation, you can't just be like me on a podcast being weird with my friends and knowing that they'll accept it. You have to have a kind of grace

and decency in those environments even if they're relative strangers. Yeah. Because we've been trained. You don't have to but we have all been trained.

And most people I think have been. Most decent people would never be like, you guys are fucking weird. I'm out of here. been trained but we have all been trained right but and most people i think have been most decent people would never be like you guys are fucking weird i'm out of here and the movie is just like gnawing at you with that and that's why the get me the fuck out of here conceit occurred to me because it takes many shapes but this is a very distinct version of it yes one of the things that i think they do to distinguish this film from the original and also make this such like a kind of, I think like successful setup

is that the house that Patty has is much different than the one in the original. And this one is much more like broken down dollhouse. Yes. And in fact, you almost go into this movie, if you've seen the original, kind of being like, did he kill someone and bury them out

back and now took over like some old person's house because this looks like somebody in their 80s like all of their accumulated stuff and you're kind of like very suspicious but what it does is there's so many creaky stairways and gluey windows and all this stuff that you're just like this would be a very uncomfortable shared living space if you didn't know the people. It's not like you have like your own wing. It's not like you have your own area. It's like, oh no, let me just step over you here in the kitchen.

Let me get, are you done with the bathroom? Can I use it? Like that kind of stuff. In the original film, the Dutch couple's home is really more of just like a typical upper middle class, middle class home. It's not this massive country estate everything isn't creaky as chris said it gives it more of a haunted house feel is it isolated yes very yeah okay you have to take a ferry and then drive for a long time they don't make as big of a

deal about him not being able to find it in the original they don't but it is i mean there are these like really doom like compositions of like these little people standing in awe of a windmill. And you're like, we are all just ants ready to be crushed by nature. The movie doesn't, this movie is not pitched that way at all. You know, there's like the famous like primal scream stuff in the first one. There's some of that here where like, are Patty and Ben going to be best friends forever? Because Patty is able to understand and exploit his frailty as a man. And there's a lot of that in the first film.

Like you see the movie kind of turns on this idea that like, maybe these two guys need each other until they don't. There's a good bit about like, when you're in a couple, you have to process the world a lot as part of a pair. Yeah. And that Ben, obviously, if he just could have Patty, would be like, this would be fun. This would be like an adventure weekend. Right.

But, like, has to process everything through, like, does my wife like it? She's a vegetarian. Like, he only wants to serve lamb or whatever. Like, there's all these concessions being made, which I thought is an effective way to build up tension. What was the thing that most had you like, oh, no, we're not. We can't. No way. Well, I mean, two things. Number one, to the couple's point, you know, and asking if I how far would I get in this situation. I mean, can you imagine the conversations

that we'd be having in the bedroom between me and Zach? I mean, he would not emerge living from this weekend. Patty, can I speak to your manager? I'll just give you a little bit of a sneak preview of what those conversations would be like. I can't wait to see The Brutalist. Do you think it will be still playing in this division

when we get back to Los Angeles? How many times can we go? Will Brady Corbett introduce it? What if I do 12 consecutive episodes about it while I'm at it? Why don't we do... Why don't you guys just reenact it? The Brutalist minute by minute. That's a good idea.

Oh, yeah. Too brutal. Yeah, that sounds really Minute. That's a good idea. Yeah. Oh, yeah. There you go. Too brutal. Yeah, that sounds really... That's a really good idea. But the other incident... The 12 Brutalists of Christmas. That's it. Brick by brick.

Are you even... Full Christmas set. Us in Santa outfits. I love it. But we just were talking about the Brutalists. I'm going to be dressed like Christ. I mean... And we'll put Brady in the manger. Yeah. for talking about the Brutalists. I'm going to be dressed like Christ.

And we'll put Brady in the manger. Bobby is like an elf. The film elf. Yeah, let's do it. I would like to be like a reindeer at least. I don't think I want to be an elf. Is that okay? Okay.

No, Bob and Jack and we'll have to find a third producer here to be the wise men. Okay. You know? Oh, great. The company grinds to a halt because of this idea. The Catholicism is running deep

in this conversation. I don't know why you're a character from In the Name of the Father today. You're fucking Sean. Chill out. But the other moment is when they actually do leave

And then she forgets The stuffed animal And I was really I was like You are 11 Like that child is 11 You gotta fucking Is she 11?

I feel like she's 9 Yeah I think she She is 8 She's 11? I think Manola Dargis Identified her as 11 11

That's why So maybe yeah That's old Listen For needing a A bunny rabbit A a stuffed rabbit. Listen, no judgment, but like in this situation, we got to learn lessons. We got to learn about separation.

We got to move it forward. Some of us are mothers of sons and some of us are fathers of daughters. Okay. And fathers of daughters, they have things that they need. You know? The daughters, they need to have things to feel comfort. And so the movie is really playing on that. Yeah.

That mania. The original film does the same thing very effectively. Maybe this movie, the new one might do it more effectively. Because you're like, God, it's the classic, like, don't go in that room feeling. But don't turn that car around. Yeah. And naturally they turn that car around. But I was like, no, no, don't go in that room feeling, but don't turn that car around. Yeah. And naturally, they turn that car around. But I was like, no, no, no.

You've brought this up. So would you guys have been able to get over, are we talking specifics here? I guess we are talking specifics. Yeah, and if you don't want to hear any more about the movie, perhaps you should turn out. We haven't really spoiled much other than key setup moments. Spoiler warning. You've made this leap to go to a stranger's house for vacation and then they introduce the idea of a babysitter is coming over to watch your children would that be the biggest see that's where i saw you put that in the outline i don't care about

that at all would never do that in a million years yeah i'm i'm like it's i mean you're already at the stranger's house. What level of vetting do your babysitters need? I need to meet them before they take care of my child? Yeah. I think that's reasonable. I mean, they meet the babysitter before they say hello. That's a good object. He's like a strange 40-year-old man.

That's not, it's not, I don't know. There's no way. I don't know. That's like, I've already. In the middle of nowhere with like no cell phone service? No. No fucking way. Well, right. Then why are you there in the house at the first place? I mean, I wouldn't go.

I wouldn't make a vacation for it. As soon as you could no longer log on, you would be like, we must leave. I think especially because by the time that happens, there have already been

two or three instances of discomfort that signal like... Yeah, he makes her eat the meat when she's vegetarian yeah he makes the kid sleep in the room

with the other kid yes weird that's really weird and then he's like I've brought over this man to watch our children so that we can go out

tonight to a pub I mean that's just child care I don't have children you know I'm open to it I'm trying to get you to take care of my child

you know I'm flexible I'm ready for it. I'm trying to get you to take care of my child, you know? Like, I'm flexible. I'm ready for anything. The ironic thing is that in this formulation, you're actually the Aisling Franciosi and James McAvoy. And Chris is the buddy who comes over. But who's the couple that you invite over before you, you know, enact your murderous spree? I mean, I guess so. That one, I was just like, whatever.

There are other, there are larger problems here. I'm bothered by that. Okay. Would you let your child ride a Vespa with a stranger? Not without a helmet. Okay. Would you? I don't have a child.

But would the... It's more likely that I'd be driving the Vespa, right? Would you take maps on the Vespa without a helmet? I don't like the idea of having too much responsibility of your children because I love both of you dearly and I just don't want to drop them. I know. And also Phoebe gets mad at you.

Yeah. What about you, Vespa? That honestly made me a little bit more stressed out because, you know, people are maniacs and I worry about the car accidents. I'm like going to write

to the neighborhood council about Colorado Boulevard because I'm worried about all that, but people are just maniacs. So that's where I am in my parenting thing. But I'm not trying to derail this, but do you look at traffic safety much the same way as you look at hotel management where you're like, these guys work hard on our roads. We have no right to complain about. What do you mean traffic safety? I mean, the problem is also that you are the problem on every other road, but the road that goes by our kids' school. Wait, are we complaining about the people who take care of the roads?

She's going to write to the Colorado Boulevard authorities to be like, slow these cars down. It's a school zone. There are multiple school zones. And I'm like, do you look at any form of complaint in society as weakness?

Do you not get worried about that? I drive very safely. So I'm not... We did a podcast where we both talked about watching Red Zone while driving on the highway. No, I listened to Red Zone.

But you know that you look down once or twice. Did I? Can you prove that in a court of law? You're probably on camera in your Tesla. You just don't know it.

Yeah. That's a good point. Well, did you as a Tesla owner feel seen in this film? can you prove that in a court of law you're probably on camera in your Tesla you just don't know it yeah that's a good point well did you as a Tesla owner feel seen in this film I don't own a Tesla mercilessly for me I do think it was very funny

that they cast him in a Tesla yeah but then they didn't use like the actual I mean it's not a flat tire situation it's a no battery situation

that was kind of weird right yeah yeah that was the move West Country does not have a lot of superchargers yeah that was a good yeah I mean, it's not a flat tire situation. It's a no battery situation. That was kind of weird, right? Yeah. Yeah. That was the move. West country does not have a lot of superchargers. Yeah. That was a good, that, yeah.

That's an odd miss by this movie. Because the minute they did it, I was like, oh, he's going to run out of charging. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the new, there's no service on my cell phone for movies with EVs. Do you think Tesla's like, you can't use our cars if you show them running out of batteries? Oh, interesting question. I don't know. Probably.

What authority do they have over that, though? Well, can't you be like, you're not allowed to use my brand in your movie? I don't know. Legally speaking,

couldn't that just be a thing that you see in the real world, though? They don't own the copyright. You're not making money off their brand. I think what you're saying is 100% right,

but there's also like, these are massive corporations that are working and union together. They probably didn't pay for those cars. Yeah. Elon pulls the batteries. Blumhouse can't run their generators, you know? You know, because leave the world behind.

Elon is supplying Blumhouse with all the batteries. I don't know that, but I don't know that that's not true. Well, not after this movie. I was just thinking about Leave the World Behind last year where the Teslas are a major plot point and I don't think that...

Which is a fantastic use of the Teslas. Brother Elon. Maybe Netflix has an F. Elon POV. We don't know. Should we talk about when this movie

distinguishes itself from the original? Yeah. You don't want to talk more about the traffic patterns in Los Angeles? The third film, the third act of the movie

is pretty much completely different from the third act of the original film. I will say that watching this movie in the first half, I was like, I think I was like, this is of high competence, but this is a very strange sensation

to just be literally watching the same film take place. A lot of very specific beats are repeated up until a point. So it's kind of like this almost copy of a copy feeling. Do they listen to Eternal Flame in the car? No, but he listens uncomfortably loudly on the way home from the restaurant to a Dutch song that really unnerves the Danish couple.

Okay. But then, you know, not unlike, say, the European version of The Vanishing and the American version of The Vanishing, like, has its own culmination, its own denouement. The final act of the movie is really more of a cat and mouse chase where, you know, in the original, I just want to talk through the ending of the original very quickly again. I know you've heard me say it. In fact, I described it in full with Chris at my side at my wife's 40th birthday party, which is something I'm very proud of. That was a good party.

Thank you. Also, just to set the, can I set the scene, which is that like half of the participants were blindfolded throughout that party because it was a taste test situation. Yes. But you guys weren't. It's a strange little life

we've created for ourselves. It's pretty weird when I look back on it like that. Probably the best thing I've ever done as a husband. It was an incredible party. My wife had a great time, so I'm pleased,

but she also let Chris and I talk about the Danish thriller speaking with people at length. That's because we had all like tasted eight different types of rosé. That's right. That's true. You know, the end of the movie in which the Danish couple attempts to leave again.

And as they're leaving, they run out of gas or they hit a flat tire. They have to pull over for some reason. And then the families are separated. The Dutch couple catches on to what's happening. I think the wife... What's the thing with like the car horn? There's a car horn thing in the original, right? I can't, I just watched this and I can't totally remember.

But needless to say, the husband and the wife are separated somehow. And the daughter is with the wife. And the Dutch couple catches up to them and picks them up. And they're pulled over car. They track down the Danish husband. They get him in the car. And when the two couples and the daughter are in the car, the Danish man is the one who has discovered the scheme

that this couple had, the Dutch couple has been doing. He finds photos of kids from previous kidnappings. He finds all the tools. He finds a child dead face down in a pool in one of the sheds. Tough beat. Very unnerving stuff. So they race out of the house. They get separated.

They eventually all come back together. And then literally, and I'm sorry for talking about this, but when I was watching the movie, I was like, I can't believe this happened. The Dutch couple literally grabs the little girl, opens her mouth, and cuts her tongue out on screen while the Danish couple watches and is rendered helpless because the Danish man has been punched in the face by the Dutch guy.

And then the Danish couple are forced to get out of the car, strip naked, go down into a dirt ravine, and then they are murdered by having rocks thrown at them. And they have the sort of peak nihilism in this movie is that they're, like, begging, like, why are you doing this to us? And then the Dutch guy's like, because you let me. Because you let me. That's the last line of dialogue in the movie.

And they're murdered, and their bodies are left nude in a hole. And it's, you know, you walk away from the movie being like, I guess I should just go walk into traffic. There's no other way to respond to the movie other than like,

wow, that movie did not pull punches. This movie pursues a much more conventional kind of ending where they try to escape. They have to turn around because they forgot the rabbit.

They try to escape again, but their car has a flat tire. It is actually the children in this case who discover the scheme. The boy who has been kidnapped and who's had his tongue cut out helps the girl come down into effectively the barn's basement where a lot of those... Yeah, the scrapbook and a lot of the stolen items from the previous families who've been kidnapped here. In the original, the boy is found in the pool.

In the new one, McAvoy throws the boy into a pond and Scoot McNair goes back, like can't turn his back on the boy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It becomes fairly clear that this has been a scheme to rob and murder these people and that this is something this family has been doing a long time. And then the movie just turns into like a big bad monster movie where James McAvoy and Aisling Franciosi are just hunting and chasing these people for 15,

20 minutes. Did this like work? Like what, did you find that it was like entertaining? Did you find it was effective? I mean, so it was interesting. I hadn't seen the original movie,

but I knew the ending of the original movie or i knew what you guys had told me roughly two years ago um and for whatever reason i didn't like re-google the wikipedia page so i was watching being like wait so this is different maybe this is going to be different i i it was kind of fun for me in the sense of trying to figure out what are they going to do and are they going sense of trying to figure out what are they going to do and are they going to do the same ending or are they going to do something new? So I think that was probably unique. But, you know, as Chris said, there are a lot of traps in that house. So some of them were fun. What lighter fluid did they pour on people for a while?

Oh, it was paint thinner, wasn't it? Paint thinner. Something like that. I mean, the great, the rooftop stuff is all great. Yeah.

Like, all the stuff with the setup earlier with the stuffed rabbits up on the roof and they have to get up there and then Scoot McNary finally, like, gets his wings when he

gets his man moment. Yeah. Did you feel seen in that moment? Uh, I thought that the way that they handled, like, it wasn't like Scoot's character became it's his man moment. Yeah. Did you feel seen in that moment? I thought that the way that they handled, like,

it wasn't like Scoot's character became He-Man and stepped up to defend his family. He like essentially sacrifices himself. Not fatally, but like I think blows his knee out. But you can come back from those things as Aaron Rodgers has shown us. You know? I see.

I thought it worked pretty well. I think it is much less bleak and much less metaphorical. I almost felt like I was like, I'm doing like a mouse cheese thing where I was like, this is new and different. So I'm excited by it. Like I, I thought it was like a creative way of being like,

if they're going to live, how are they going to get the hell out of here? Right. So I thought that in terms of the specific like setup and filmmaking, you know, of being like, if they're going to live, how are they going to get the hell out of here? Right. So I thought that part was cool. And like in terms of the specific like setup and filmmaking, you know, I was like stressed out when they were trapped in the window. Yep.

I was educated by the application of Paint Thinner, you know, and I was like, okay, good things to know, like life's survival tips. It's been noted that McAvoy is not just physically big in this uh part but but his performance is big yeah um you're a big mcavoy lady huge fan and i like i like all the

stages of mcavoy you know like from atonement all the way through now i'm just like an absolute hulked out weirdo in whatever crazy horror movie is being marketed. So I'm really happy for him. I enjoyed it. I was incredibly charmed by the whole Bengals shtick because I love the Bengals and I love Eternal Flame and he's very funny in it, but he's watchable. And there is something like they use that charisma in the movie and so the why would you do this is well I would I don't know if I would go to any other stranger's house but like maybe James McAvoy's you know what I'm saying you agree with that I think he does a really good job of being uh incredibly aggressive and incredibly vulnerable in this movie so like every mistake he makes

everything that could be seen as a trespass or like an aggression, he then like is like, oh, I'm so fucked up over my dad. He disarms you. I'm very embarrassed by the fact that I don't make as much money as you and it's very awkward for me.

Like, you know, for the most part, like even the scene, one of the more chilling scenes in this movie is the one that's most kind of quotidian is like the kids put on a dance show and uh it's it's a ruse but james mcavoy's character keeps getting very angry at his son for fucking up the dance moves and it's like an agonizingly long sequence of james mcavoy like repeatedly starting the song over and they'd be like you're fucking up you're screwing this dance up and you know but then he's, I've had too much to drink.

It's the afternoon or it's whatever. You know what I mean? Like he always has a reason why he's acting the way he's acting. So in the original film, that a somewhat similar sequence happens where the kids dance and the Dutch father becomes very angry,

but it's not due to alcohol and it is not like rage based. Yeah. There's something like almost alien about his discontent. Well, cause he's like, I'm treating you in for a new model soon almost. Right. There's something like almost alien about his discontent. Well because he's like I'm treating you in for a new model soon almost.

Right. Whereas in this movie there is a kind of like forgive me but he has a kind of like trauma underneath. No he has a trauma. You know like he has been

He does. And it's like and that part is like a little annoying and to the extent that they're like filling in American backstories it like

has to be the dad thing. On the other hand because it's McAvoy, like they just use him reciting a Philip Larkin poem, you know, to just be like, it's all about parents. And I'm like, well, if we have to do this, like my, you know, my parents got killed, Batman bullshit, like let's do it with James McAvoy,

like reciting poetry. It's amazing. Yeah. Also really good at passing off like observations from podcasts as like his own discoveries. It's just like the human mind only needs sleep for four hours a night. Like it's whatever he says. It's like a very good,

that's like very much a guy who's just like, I'm going to corner you and tell you about Huberman, but pretend like I also have done the research. And I don't know. I don't. What's that like? I don't know. Could you tell us?

No, Chris, Chris is not a Huberman guy. He's more of a Jordan Peterson type. You know, he's sending those links. I think that like I always cite my sources. You always cite your sources. And I give them the proper amount of deference. I'm never just like, hey man, I saw that I listened to this podcast and you're not going to believe what I now practice.

That's honestly all you do on every podcast. It's not. It's not, is it? Well, sometimes you do cite the sources, but you do often say I heard this on a podcast. Yeah, but it's not like I also now, I stopped going outside to get sunlight after like three weeks. You had, you had. That's honestly way longer.

And I think my eyesight got worse because I was doing that, honestly. Of course it did. Yeah. You had golf YouTube. Yeah. You had mental wellness and the power of the mind. No. It was your Huberman era.

It was about getting UV light. You had cutting and bulking. No, no, no. And macros. Yeah, sure. You had macros. And no tracking. I'm into Laird Hamilton does a lot of farmer walking with kettlebells.

Yeah, yeah. Kettlebells era. You guys missed out on kettlebells era. Chris was in there. What was the subscription service that was for like mountain? Bob just perked up so hard. Mountain tough. How's mountain tough going?

I almost tore my quads doing it. I like honestly thought I like fucking. Because you know how you see like a football player or a soccer player be like, oh, like points at his quads. And you're like, wow, how does he know? It's like when you get in a mountaintop, you know. I'm waiting for the phone call when you're like, I actually did tear my quad.

I need you to come over. It's going to be an amazing day. When I have to carry you like a newborn to the ER. No, you would probably come over just to be like, I have to see you in pain. No, I would help you. I would help you. I have to see you in pain, but not to help. I would record the whole thing, but I would help you. Get me the fuck out of here.

Your rehab vlogs, like after you tear your quad. Oh, I would make it such a thing. I would make it like my own Amazon Prime series of like the rebuilding of a legend. You and Neil Eletrosh rebuilding all your your destroyed ACLs and MCLs. I would get that dude who worked with Brady though.

Alex Guerrero. Yeah, that dude who's been banned from all NFL facilities. I'll come back even stronger. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah, strawberries are bad for you apparently.

Is it like nightshades I don't know why it is nightshades yeah inflammation in the body yeah can't say I agree with that I don't love strawberries

like just raw dogging them I like them in raw dogging them like I don't just as opposed to a good old cooked strawberry eat strawberry no I like them on

pound cake yeah when you're thinking health and wellness, you think pound cake. Dude, when I'm in Philly, sometimes I look at the stuff I used to eat. Do you ever look at the shit you used to eat

back on the East Coast? No. You're like, dear God. Yeah. You don't look. You're just like, yes, three bags of Sour Patch Cake. Yeah, give me those Sweet Tart Ropes. Hook me up.

Oh, my God. Yeah. I brought some chips back from Philly for Knox. We went to a new sandwich joint in Highland Park yesterday. My wife and I had lunch together. It was an amazing hour and 15 minutes of my life. Okay. G-G-I-R-E-N.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Holy shit. Did you get the chicken Caesar wrap? My wife did. It's so good. Is that viral? They're known for it. They like, you know, it's the East Side Los Angeles thing where they have like four outposts

and then they finally deign to come, you know, towards us. Yeah. I think this is the second one, honestly. I think it's just one on Melrose.

Nevertheless. I think there's one in Venice. I mean, I follow them on Instagram. You were having a lovely lunch with your wife.

We had a great lunch. I had the Don Pepe incredible balsamic chicken sandwich. And then we had a Joe's Tea. Have you had Joe's Tea? No.

I think it's more of a New York thing. It's a New York style deli. That's the point of the sandwich joint. And just sitting there, Eileen had a peach tea. I had a strawberry lemonade.

We both turned about two thirds of the way through. And we were like, 60 grams of sugar. I told you when I did that. 60 grams? Sir, Joe, what are you doing? Yeah, this is when I had to do the diabetes test for the pregnancy. You could have used the strawberry lemonade. I guess so.

That would have been really, but like basically that's the drink that I was trying to get away from. Yes. By then eating. It might actually be the same drink. A bunch of Sour Patch Kids. We wonder why we would drink a peach snapple and then like click the top 125 times in a minute. We've lost sight of the episode. No, let's get back to it.

Sorry. Now I really want pound cake. It's waiting for you as soon as we get through this false premise of a pod. No, it's not. And there's no Oreo cheesecake. There's nothing. Maybe we'll take you out. Okay.

We'll take you out before you're done, before this child arrives. Why do these movies always work? Sometimes they're horror movies, but not always. To get the fuck out of here. Yeah, like when I was thinking about it, I was like, oh, like Captain Phillips, that's a get me the fuck out of here movie. Or 127 Hours, or Escape from Alcatraz,

12 Angry Men, Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf. Like, these are all get me the fuck out of here movies. 12 Angry Men because there's too much responsibility or because you have to hang out with a bunch of guys.

It just seems hot in there. These guys are sweating. Oh, yeah. You know, there's no way to see in that, in that, what is that called? The briefing room? But we're weird about our hotels. You're like won't do my yeah you're like i will not uphold justice you guys who love to serve on juries what are you talking about when remember

when you got dismissed from jury duty live on the drunk podcast that was an incredible moment it was really good i was very very happy i don't we were pretty charming no i listened to some of it okay that was a very fun episode yeah uh i think everybody was really happy with that because we actually got drunk we did not play it it was real how could we not i know but we were also finished it being like i feel fine yeah you know like we texted each other the next day no hangover who can believe it is that just because the chanzani or whatever soderbergh's thing is like really smooth? No, it's because we learned

the ancient truth of all 40-somethings, which is in order to not be hungover, just start drinking at two. Right. That is. And also order like a shitload of tacos, 30

minutes. Oh, yeah. That was the other thing. And also, and potato chips, which I brought. That's right. We had a lot of snacks. Good pod.

Yeah. We'll revisit it next year. What's this prompt? Did one of you leave a prompt which I brought. That's right. We had a lot of snacks. Good pod. Yeah. We'll revisit it next year. What's this prompt? Did one of you leave a prompt? I did. I wanted to know, so the get me the fuck out of here movies,

they're a little bit of a personal litmus test. I think there's like your own sort of hangups and your own anxieties come out in these movies. They do. Are there any

get me the fuck out of here movies that you actually think you'd be fine in? Where like that doesn't seem so bad. Like for me, I think I do well in the thing. I don't mind the cold. I don't mind the dark. I like hanging out with other guys.

And I think getting to know each other really well and figuring out who's an alien would be fun. It's him the the no because the funny thing is he'd start being like really sweet and I'd be like

oh it's Sean I'm gonna light him on fire why is Sean being so nice to me the hey Shanker it's not your quads the alien from the thing violently tears apart your body

yeah so you're cool with that no but like I think me and Keith David and Kurt Russell would have a great time. You think they would respect you? What you're bringing to the table?

Do you also think when you're inserting yourself in this situation that like then, like with your powers combined, you can change the outcome? Like, is part of this prompt like what do you think?

I would solve the thing problem? Yeah, like I don't need to get out of here. Like I can make it work i think like after seeing the thing 47 times like i have i probably would be like hey guys i don't think this is a good idea to let the dogs in here you know okay like if you go into the movie with the poor knowledge i don't know so what about for you is there something where you're like this i mean no hell for somebody? But that's more about like, how many, how often do I examine any situation

and think to myself, yeah, I'd like to be a part of that. Very good point. It's just like some self-knowledge. I mean, we're similar in that way. I think there's not a lot where I'm like, oh yeah, I could definitely hack it being stuck on a spaceship with an alien.

Like that's not, that doesn't seem appealing to me. I want to be at my house. It was just a prompt for a podcast. It's a good cue. I'm trying to think of where I can imagine you doing well. I think I would have been okay on Triangle of Sadness now that we think about it.

Oh, God, no. I mean, I don't want vomit all over me, but, you know. Not interested. I think that you would have done... But then you just make it to the nice resort. Yes. You know? Yeah, and complain about the but you know. Not interested. I think that you would have done. But then you just make it to the nice resort. Yes. You know? Yeah.

And complain about the room you get. I think you would do well in Bane's Gotham. Sean is just grinding it out at the poker table. Because you're like, all of my fellow hotel workers have joined me. We will rise again. Just so I'm clear, the hoteliers,

they get off. But the people who work at the hotel... What hotelier? Are you staying at the Grand Budapest? What hotelier are you talking about? I don't know. It's a guy behind the counter who sees you come in

and he's like, you're a fucking mark. No, you're like Steve Kempton is cool with me, but if you carry bags on an elevator you're a piece of shit i have never had my no one is talking about the lovely porters and people this is being recorded so you have to be nice to everybody forever from now on i'm arguing with the computer system okay yeah that's exactly what that's definitely how the people who are

manning the computer system i'm polite about about it. And it's private equity trying to squeeze us. Sorry for advocating for myself. Is private equity trying to squeeze us? Yeah. It is. That's a suitable scapegoat, I guess. Okay. So there's no get me the fuck out of here movie that you think that you would do fine in.

That's fine. Let's do our list. Let me start then because then I'll say here's one that maybe I could hack it in. Okay. Because I feel like I already live in it. It's do our list. Let me start then because then I'll say here's one that maybe I could hack it in. Okay. Because I feel like I already live in it. It's called The Truman Show.

The Truman Show directed by Peter Weir. Not necessarily immediately what you would think of but to get me the fuck out of here. You'd think a scary movie or something intense but you know.

Yeah. The trap of modern life. Sure. That's what that movie's about. You know? The same way that I think that both of these being evil movies are about

where you get to a certain stage of your life and you're like, I have it all. I have the white picket fence. I have a loving partner. I have a viable career. It's all fake.

It's nothing. And your life is just content. I would say that many of my picks also fall under that category. In that rubric? Including, well, I also have a Peter Weir movie. Oh, okay.

I haven't looked at your list. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At number five, which is Picnic at Hanging movie. Oh, okay. I haven't looked at your list. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At number five, which is Picnic at Hanging Rock. Oh, perfect. Which, it came to me because you sent this prompt, and I was like, okay, besides the obvious structural horror movies, of which I have a couple, but what is a get-me-the-fuck-out-of-here moment?

And it's groups of women, you know, primarily, and all the different ways. I mean, that's what popped up in my head. That's amazing. Which is like, you know, I think it's like- ways. I mean, that's like what popped up in my head. That's amazing. Which is like, you know, I think it's like- What do you mean? You're a friend to women? I am, but it's like-

You can't be against the brutalist and groups of women. Yeah, well, I think it's like groups of people, and then normally I get stuck in the social mores of groups of women more often than groups of men because you won't let me in the door, you know? So- You and Chris share that. We really silenced Amanda when you think about it. If only you had a platform. Big Big and Hanging Rock is actually like,

I mean, people die, you know? So that's tough. And I don't know what's going on at that rock. Well, do they? Well, I guess you don't know. But the other, so, but it is about a creepy boarding school slash natural wonder. Also, never trust nature.

That sounds, yeah, both of those things are tough. Right, frequented by girls in Victorian costumes and all of their, and the suspect headmistresses. And you don't get a lot of explanation explanation but the other thing that's interesting about it is like there is also an allure about this school and these girls and like people kind of want to be near it even though it's not good for them which is an important thing to nail down in these movies because otherwise like there there needs to be a draw or else it's like why didn't you just keep driving you know i think it's a an excellent pick and i like that we're matched on peter weir yeah peter we're the rare uh octogenarian who's not

still making masterpieces 40 years of witness next year gotta take it up with your boy i take it call bill i'm trying. Maybe I will, actually. You know, give him a shout. And you guys together, you can build. Bill, it's me. I need to talk to you. Bill, I've just scolded a hotel employee.

I have some thoughts about witness. I am not scolding anyone. I'm asking pleasantly. If the system allows for something better. Chris, what's your number five? I wanted to pick one that was like a party at a house kind of situation. So it was either this or You're Next. But I'm going with Ready or Not, directed by Radio Silence,

who did some of the Scream movies and Abigail and everything. This is a delightful movie. Samara Weaving, great Scream queen. Adam Brody gives a very good performance in this film as a sort of alcoholic, rich guy. But, the reason why I have it

as a get me the fuck out of here is her existence and her life depends on her ability to play games. And I don't follow, like, it's hard for me to learn the rules

for board games for some reason. Is that true? Yeah. Like, I'm a big, like, oh,

why don't I just keep, start playing and I'll learn and then I like secretly never learn and I'm like, I have no idea what I'm doing. We don't play a lot of board games. Why do you think that is? Something about my character?

That's fine. So Ready or Not. You like that movie, right? I do really like Ready or Not. Probably still my favorite radio silence movie. I hope they get back. Have you seen this one?

You would enjoy it because it's on her wedding night. She has to choose. She basically is getting hunted by her family. I think you would like it too. Great Henry Turney performance in this movie. I haven't seen this one. Though I have seen another recent horror movie surrounding whether you can survive a video game.

Not a video game, a board game. What was that one? Oh, is that Escape Room? No. Not Ouija? No. Anyway. Tarot?

No. Clue? Battleship? Yeah, Battleship with Rihanna. Are you ready to play... Dungeons and Dragons? Oh, no, it wasn't that. Are you ready to play Clue with a it wasn't that are you ready to play a clue

with like a five-year-old that is your daughter and like just absolutely house her yeah i was gonna say like will you do that i mean here's the thing i have no problem sharing this with you guys the reason why i am the way that i am yeah because whenever i would compete with my dad and anything he was just like fuck your feelings and he would just beat me yeah and he'd be like this is how life goes yeah and honestly look at me now thanks dad okay you did it and you don't want to you know break the whatever obviously i will let her win every time right but i think it's a little bit of a father daughter versus father i played it with my godson and his siblings once and they were like six eight i think they were like five seven so mostly reading but all of like the bluffing and

strategy was just absolutely just hopeless yeah yeah yeah and like and we were sort of playing as teams and i'm like trying to help them but i'm like at what point am i supposed to like teach you about the reality of life versus like like obviously it's not professor plum because he's right there you know um What's your number four? Your number four was my number four, but then I changed it because it was your number four. Number four, one of the greatest movies about Los Angeles ever made. It's The Invitation, directed by Karin Kusama, which is a movie that we've definitely talked about on other episodes of this show before. A movie about a recently divorced man who's invited to a dinner party, which is being hosted by his ex-wife. And it is up in

the hills of hollywood and with he's a man who's clearly struggling with something we don't quite know he's got something from his past that he has not totally reconciled but also he has arrived at a very very strange dinner party and it becomes clear by the end of the film like what's really happening at this dinner party but this movie nails the exact tension that is somewhat similar to speak no evil where you're like i'm here and i'm stuck and i really don't want to be here and i can't think of a single good way to get out of this situation as i've gotten older i put myself in fewer and fewer of these situations you have to learn but you gotta know when one of these is coming and in this case logan marshall green is the star and his character he's so anguished in this case, Logan Marshall Green is the star. And his character, he's so anguished

in this movie, but also so confused at the same time. And Karan Kusama, like, incredible master of tone as a filmmaker.

And she just makes you so uncomfortable for the first hour of this movie. So, like, somebody drops a glass, you're confronted by a conversation

you just desperately do not want to have. Something around the corner is making noise and you don't know what it is. And you're like, why is everything so weird here? So I really love this movie, The Invitation. Thank you, Chris Ryan, for taking me to see this movie while my husband was out of town. My first three months in Los Angeles. I'll never forget it. I mean, it was perfect. And then we lived in the hills at the time and I went to the movies with Chris and Phoebe which was really nice

because Zach was traveling for work and then watched this wonderful and very creepy film and then you guys dropped me back off

in the hills alone and I was like goodnight here we go I think we did we tried our best to be like we'll watch you get to your house

and everything yeah yeah yeah we'll sit here you wait like you know. And then we paid everybody in the hills to turn on a red light right there. Spoiler alert. Yeah.

Okay, Amanda, what's your number four? Okay, so my number four also came from, you know, the groups of women prompt. And also. That's not a prompt. The prompt wasn't, get me away from these fucking women. I was like, so what are situations that are like, get me out from these fucking women i was like so what are situations that are like get me out of here that aren't a haunted house and weddings like immediately came to mind um and i'm sure you know there are many movies set at weddings where consequential things

happen but right or not yeah but bridesmaids is what stuck out to me this is very funny and that is just i mean it's just pure social you know and obviously like i was thinking about like the wedding dress scene or the um the flight or the the baby the shower you know that all the events all of the groups of like the women who are thrown together trying to enact these traditions that did you identify with wig in that film um i i guess so yeah yeah because you're usually you have a little bit of wig blindness i do but i think she's perfectly set in this and then i actually re-watched some of it this morning and like the whole movie is about her just being like i'm miserable in every part of my life um like even the first scene which is like the very funny john ham sex scene where she's just not having a great time.

And it's like, get me out of this moment. So it's, it's pretty good. The movie is an epic tragedy. Yeah. Coded in Aptovian comedy. Uh, what's your number four, Chris? Uh, Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Doesn't need a lot of explanation other than the fact that I even want to be get the fuck

out of the van when the guy, the hitchhiker gets on. Like it honestly turned me off hitchhikers for the rest of my life when the guy, the hitchhiker gets on. Like, it honestly turned me off hitchhikers for the rest of my life when I saw this movie. Not that I was ever like a big hitchhiker guy, but we were probably

at the tail, tail end of, you would reasonably see like, oh, it looks like this fellow needs a ride. But we were starting

to get a lot of like, if you pick up the hitchhiker, he'll have a knife for a hand. I think the film, The Hitcher, kind of closed the book on this one. Okay. But I agree with you that like our parents

probably picked somebody up over the years. Or hitched themselves. I mean, my parents didn't. Okay. Just to be stuck out in the middle of nowhere, Texas, with a crazy guy with a chainsaw would be tough. An amazing movie. There's a new documentary called Chain

Reactions coming out soon. It played at Telluride and I didn't get a chance to see it. That is Alexander O'Philippe's documentary about the making of Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And he made a movie like this about Alien. He made a movie like this about The Exorcist. He made a movie like this about recently about David Lynch and

his relationship to the Wizard of Oz. Really, really like the movies that he makes and I'm looking forward to that's awesome good good shout uh okay my number three is lock this is a movie why would you want to get the fuck out of luck this is this seems like your dream my dream being trapped in a car while having an anxiety attack about the poor that's happening in the morning p-o-u--R. P-O-U-R. Yeah. Have you seen this movie? Yeah. Okay.

This movie is starring Tom Hardy and Tom Hardy only along with a collection of voices that are speaking to him into a telephone. A man driving from work to home or somewhere else. He's driving from home to work. He's trying to get to London on time.

And this is like me before every pot. Where I'm like, I'm not ready. Okay. I'm not ready to do this. Like, I'm not ready to do this. It's like, get me out of my actual life. Oh, it's like a work nightmare dream. It's a work nightmare.

The whole movie is a work nightmare. And obviously, he's got a lot of other things that are going on in his life that he is like, addressing and not addressing throughout the film. But, you know written and directed by Stephen Knight perhaps the only good film he's directed

nevertheless maybe you've seen Serenity I mean he's also he's contributed a lot in the television world I know you don't acknowledge it

yes I respect Peaky Blinders Serenity starring Anne Hathaway film yeah right right right so that was the it was all of... Is that the game that you're thinking?

The movie that you're thinking of? No, it's a different one. Okay. Have you seen Serenity? The one I'm thinking about was like an Airbnb board game. Oh. Oh. An Airbnb board game?

Are you talking about the one with Dave Franco that he directed? No. Oh, can I just like tease a movie that's coming out soon that is somewhat similar to this? Sure. There's a movie coming to Netflix in like a month called It's What's Inside.

Yeah. Phoebe really wants to see this. That is like basically a a group of friends before a wedding play a game together.

Okay. And then things happen. That's all I'll say. Have you seen it? I have seen it. I think the trailer's coming out like really soon. But uh that falls. say. Have you seen it? I have seen it. I think the trailer's coming out like really soon. But that falls.

Was this the Sundance one? It was. It was the Sundance movie. Is it? The filmmaker that we met. Okay, you're up. Number three, Amanda. My number three is a classic,

Stepford Wives, the 1975. And again, this is a group of women but it's not the women's fault, you know, this time because it's the men who have turned them into robots.

That's big of you. Yeah. So sometimes we bring it on ourselves and sometimes the patriarchy strikes again. I would like them to release this film on 4K UHD. Okay. Did you hear the Samsung ad where like AI will like update the movie or TV show you're watching to make it look more contemporary? Does that mean like put cell phones in people's hands in the film Stepford Wives? No, it just like changes the movie or TV show you're watching to make it look more contemporary. Does that mean like

put cell phones in people's hands in the film Stepford Wives? No, it just like changes the grain. It like does something to like the picture. Like what Jim Cameron does to his movies when he restores them. I don't want that. Okay.

Okay, we'll let Jim know. If you can get in touch with him, I'd appreciate it. Ask him if you'd like to join the show. I'm a huge fan. Stepford Wives is very, very, very good. Yeah. The remake is not so good.

No. This movie is like lost to time because you can't, it's not streaming. It's not, maybe it is streaming somewhere now, but it's streaming at a very low quality. Yeah, it was not the best experience, but I rewatched it before a 1975 draft because I took this. My girl, Paula Prentiss. Love her. Chris, what's your number three? The Hurt Locker.

I'm kind of clumsy, so I don't think that I would do a great job disarming bombs. Get me the fuck out of this bomb disarm. The idea of wearing a very bulky bomb suit sounds very uncomfortable. Well, now I know how to really develop the 70mm

video series experiment. Is to make me dress up in a detonation costume. You should do that for Halloween this year. Dressed going as Renner from Hurt Locker.

That'll go over. You're going to come trick-or-treating with us again. And I'll play Refinest. You'll meet a lot of friends. But yeah, I just would never be able to cut the red wire.

Like it would just be, I'd be out in the first frame. I'm overdue for a rewatch of this one. It's been a while. My number two is Green Room. We just talked about Jeremy Saunier on the show

because of Rebel Ridge. Number one movie in America. Yeah. The people are into it. I told you. Even when I was like planning that episode, I was like,

this might be a little bit of a stretch for a whole episode. But no, people love it. It's really cool. Great. I let him make a hundred more movies.

I love Jeremy's movies. Green Room is my favorite. This is his third movie. It's about a punk rock band that plays a club that turns out to be a Nazi enclave. But this is more about

how you hate underground music. What do you mean? No, I support those artists and their attempt to get free. That's something that I believe in. Terrifying movie. Genuinely, viscerally upsetting.

This is one that Zach, my husband, has seen even though he's really, really, really scared of horror but he does respect the underground music. It's a thriller but it's horrifying. And really, really brilliant movie if of horror, but he does respect the underground. It is. It's a thriller, but it's horrifying. Yeah. And really, really brilliant movie if people haven't seen it.

Although I assume, given the Rebel Ridge acclaim, people are going back and digging into that one. Early era A24. Yeah. That's what I was like. This is one of the first movies they made where people were like,

oh, cool. This is like a, this is a brand that represents something. Okay. Number two, Amida. Another mid-era a24 i guess mid-somar i mean this this is how you get me on european vacation you know which is like you this is like this is the setup where i'd be like oh fuck now i can't leave and i've got this

kind of dopey boyfriend but it's really beautiful. And I guess the Scandinavians just do things differently. And then, you know, you're just like, I mean, it's like the cruise ship, you know? Would you be more alarmed by needing to dress up and do stuff or would it be the old people throwing themselves off a cliff? I think that would be a moment of fear. But I would be stressed out about the wardrobe as well.

And it's not like the boyfriend is providing solace. Or like he doesn't know either. She's like the guest of a guest. So you don't really have all the information you need. Which is another big sticking point for me.

This is a pretty terrifying movie. I actually think this movie is really underrated, even though it is widely acclaimed and people say they like it. It's wonderful. I think it's major. We saw it together and I felt like I was a little higher on it when we saw it. Is that fair? I really liked it.

I think that the beginning is so fucked up. Yeah. It's so grim. It's almost like it takes you an hour into the movie to get over the beginning is so fucked up that like it's almost like it takes you an hour into the movie to get over the beginning and then it just starts up again

with terrible shit so it's unrelenting I loved it I mean I just don't I don't really remember that screening very well for some reason Chris what's your number two?

My number two is the Blair Witch Project which obviously is terrifying once they get to the house and the you know the guys turn to the wall and you would hate to have your life ended by a spectral witch.

But to get me the fuck out of here, I have a huge phobia of getting lost in the woods. And I really, really think that that would be... I mean, I'm just like my programmer brain is just like out of control right now. Just like you and a compass and a GoPro. You know what I'm saying? That's maybe why the geolocator trend is really like, it makes me feel better about the idea that maybe he could find me. Maybe Rainbow would know where I am.

That's true. But when they walk around, they're like, we've passed this tree before. He knows where you are at all times. When they're like, we've passed this tree before. Honestly,

my worst nightmare. And the idea that I wouldn't be able to get out of a forest, it sounds like hell on earth. Seeing this movie in a movie theater was fucking religious. I just, I'll do anything to get back

to the feeling I had after I saw this movie. I don't think it will ever happen again. Do you think movies could do it or do we have to be that age? I think it's all of those things. I think there's something about what movies are now,

maybe how much we all understand movies because of what we've been doing with our lives. Yeah, we've seen too much stuff. I mean, I was 15 when this movie came out. It was perfect. Perfect. The era of the internet that we were in, it was perfect.

Just magical. Great pick. Are you afraid of the forest? You're afraid of birds. Yeah. Sightlines, you know? Sightlines are tricky. just magical great pick are you afraid of the forest? you're afraid of birds yeah sight lines you know sight lines are tricky sight lines

right I don't like to be too exposed but also you love the beach though yeah but you know where are you more exposed than on the beach?

when we went to Montana and we were just like driving and it was just like flat she didn't like there was nowhere to hide. Yeah. And you can see the people coming, you know, and you're like, what do I do? I really, I'm.

I think you're still one of your weirdest bits. I think you're so weird. I love you because you bring it up every five years. That was like an incredibly primal reaction I had. We were just driving. But you saw the plains of Montana. Yeah. And I was just like, where do you hide?

Like a militia or zombies or the Russians? Like, who are you worried about? I don't know, they're coming. And they're just like, you know? But when you're in traffic on Highland, you're not worried about that. This is why I like constantly am pushing back against the like, Sean's so weird.

And I'm like, she's right here. I mean, nobody asks me, you know? It's a good take. It's a very good take. But the forest is the flip side where it's like you can't see anything you know so you don't know where you're i'm with you like you don't know you're some you're on mother nature's turf yeah you know my number one is related to that which is the mist which i think is the best of both worlds it's the best of get me the fuck out of the natural world

which has been literally overtaken by creatures of some kind also get me the fuck out of the natural world, which has been literally overtaken by creatures of some kind. Also, get me the fuck out of this confined space, this kind of general store where all of these people are gathered together. It's a supermarket, and as somebody who's bumped into you at the supermarket, that's your time. You've got your AirPods in,

and you look at me like you stepped in something, and you're like, I can't believe I have to make more small talk with this guy at Gelson's. Well, that's not true. I'm always delighted to see you. It is true when you run into someone on schedule. Here's the other thing. You take a minute.

You don't really know. I'm a normal man. And listen, I say that like. I am a normal man who went to the supermarket to acquire groceries. I understand that sometimes you don't want to see people, you know? Like in New York, all the time, you cross the street. Have you ever considered the source of who I've run into? It just so happens that you do.

But you are really like, you have like a special face that you make. But if Jeremy Saulnier is there, you'd be like, Jeremy, big fan! And it's like you know that you're supposed to be excited to see us, you know? But it's like you haven't quite turned that switch. I mean, I think that I have a little bit too much consciousness about the vagaries of social interaction that I find annoying. And I feel like the three of us are above that. We don't have to do small talk in the supermarket. But you decided that.

What do you mean I decided it? You're the one who sets the tone. No, I have the biggest brain where I'm like, we don't need to do all this stuff. Let's do the stuff that matters. If you want to bond, we can bond. Are we really going to fucking bond in Gelson's for three minutes on a Wednesday?

No. That's why we're doing the show. We're bonding. I mean, I do hear that. But you couldn't just be like, hey, what's up? But that's when you put the mist down. I was like, this is because his idea of hell on earth is to be stuck in a grocery store with strangers. I wouldn't enjoy that at all.

I would not like that. Amanda, what's your number one? It's Get Out because no one put Get Out on the list. You know, it's right there in the title. Respectfully. Also one of the great movies movies of of this century um and yeah you really don't want to be in that house if you're him who do you most relate to and get out bradley whitford is that what you're you're. Yeah. How many times would you vote for Kamala?

What's your number one? Mine's Open Water 2, colon Adrift, directed by Hans Horn and just a quick bit of housekeeping. You can find my Hans Horn monograph coming on Faber in the fall called Horns Up, the cinema of Hans Horn.

Do you guys know the plot for Open Water 2? No, but I hope you will tell us at great length. Three couples in Mexico go on a birthday trip out on a yacht into the water I guess off Yucatan or whatever. It's one couple has kind of inexplicably decided

to bring their newborn baby with them and then there's another couple that's like a party guy with his new girlfriend. And then there's just a sort of filler to third couple. Four of the people decide to go swimming one day. They're swimming off the boat. The one woman who brought her newborn has had a traumatic event in her childhood. So she doesn't like swimming. She's always wearing her life jacket. But the guy who's the party guy wants to conquer that for her. And so he throws her in the water with the other four people and jumps in himself but nobody put down the ladder so now they're stuck in the water they can't get back up on the boat and the baby is in the boat does the baby wear a life jacket like the mom well the baby's just in a bed the baby's

chilling it's not in the water but you can hear the baby from the water. And I wouldn't like that. I wouldn't like any part of it. I wouldn't like, I wouldn't have wanted it to be me who decided it would be a funny bit to throw the woman who doesn't like swimming into the water.

And I definitely would have been the guy who hadn't made sure the ladders are down. The whole shark thing is really scary. And then there's just like a bunch of stuff of them trying to get back into the boat. You can imagine it doesn't go well since it's part of the open water franchise.

I think you're two of the most amazing minds I've ever come across. This has been honestly one of the most fun episodes we've done in a long time. I want to thank you for your candor.

You don't have any comment on open water 2 colon a drift? I haven't seen it. I'd like to see it. Directed by Hans Hort? I feel like you just ruined it for me. You started talking and I was like,

I don't want to hear this because I want to watch this movie. Which happens from time to time on this show. Eric Dane, isn't it? Eric Dane. Wonderful. Any honorable mentions you want to hit? Oh, I had some. Well, you know.

I started making a letterboxd list and I was like, there's 300 movies on this list. Like it was too long. I had the invitation. Would you want to get out of Marriage Story? Oh. Which part?

Going to see Scarlett Johansson's play. You know what actually stresses me out so much? Isn't she doing the horse thing? I know she will relate to this. Oh, that's right.

The part of that movie that I want to get out of is like the custody battle and the like sharing weekends. Like I will never ever put myself in that situation. That's so fucked up. You just like

fake your own death. I mean the movie is also about wanting to get out of it which is which is nice. So it addresses it gives you some resolution. Do you guys hear about Sean?

He was reenacting Open Water 2. He's gone forever. Solo Open Water 2 Sean is adrift. What else? Apollo 13. I don't want to be stuck in space.

I think Mission Control would be a cool place. A lot of collaboration and camaraderie. No, that's true. And Ed Harris in the vest. And it works out. And you can smoke in the vest. Yeah, lost a man in space, even though they've stranded two of them

for a very long time. I have like a... They really are underplaying this. Wait, which part? The part about the do you not know about the americans stuck on the spaceship no oh yeah this is like oh it's another whale situation we got another whale situation oh you don't know about this okay so they send two astronauts up for like a space station mission and it was supposed to be like

10 days or something okay uh and now they're not going home until spacex can rescue them in february it's. It's tough. It's tough. It's not what you want. And again, you really don't want to be relying on Elon as your, you know. He's got to go. Doesn't he have to go do something about that? Doesn't Elon, isn't he? Are they going, is Starlink trying to get them back?

Yeah, no, I think they are doing it. I feel like they're going to miss the engagement 70 millimeter of the Brutalist. That's not ideal for those guys. What are they going to do? It's tough. It's tough. Would are they going to do? I know. It's tough. It's tough. Would you consider Back to the Future a Get Me the Fuck Out of Here movie?

No, I think that would be sick. To bang your mom? No, to go back in time and invent rock. Oh, you want to be Chuck Berry? You want to market correct Chuck Berry? Diehard? Yeah. I mean, he's trying to get out of there.

I would definitely be Ellis so that would be a short film for me that's funny Assault on Precinct 13 sure what about Ace in the Hole you know the

Billy Wilder movie where the guy gets stuck in the hole oh I mean yeah not ideal what about The Shallows oh is that the Blake Lively with the yeah I mean, yeah. Not ideal. What about The Shallows?

Oh, is that the Blake Lively with the... Yeah. I mean, really any Blake Lively movie at this point is like, get out of here. I felt like I was in The Shallows. A simple favor, sure. Free Guy? I would fucking hate being in Free Guy. Would you want to be in Jurassic Park?

Would you want to be among the first visitors? I was just talking with Yossi Salik about this because she went to Africa on a safari. She saw lions. Those are real. I realized that. But one of the questions I asked her was like, are you into the idea of getting close to a lion?

Did you want that? Some people are like, I don't want to. What did she say? She did. She enjoyed it. I really hate the zoo. Don't you have to go all the time um i i actually like don't go that often but in addition to you know the zoo is like sort of

depressing yeah but i i don't really like being close to animals and you know about my whole thing about when they let like the peacocks roam and they let it do the philly zoo or the los angeles arboretum where we went recently i had a tough experience at a zoo once, too. Get that shit away from me. I do not want to interact with a peacock. At the Philly Zoo, actually. Yeah, they're just roaming around the Philly Zoo. What was your experience? Martha the tiger took a piss on me.

Did I ever tell you that? Did I ever tell you this? And the funny thing about it was, I wasn't doing anything to the tiger. These kids next to me were like, Hey, tiger, go fucking jump off a rope. You know, like they were like really harassing. I was standing there wearing a Martha the tiger t-shirt.

That was how down I was. I was like in third grade. Martha the tiger gets up on her hind legs, squirts all the way from across the cage, pisses all over my shirt. Let me tell you something. Sure that was piss? That's disgusting.

Why would you do that? You used a word. I got home and you've never seen a face like the face of my cat when she smelled tiger piss on my t-shirt. So R.I.P. Smokey. She died.

Not that day, but she passed away. We gotta do like a Crocodile Hunter style show with you. We gotta. We gotta set you off into the world

without a geo tracker. I can't believe I mean I can't believe I didn't tell you that before. That's an amazing addition to the live show. Did you do that

because you were worried about opening for James McAvoy on this pod? Is that why you just told that story? That's right amazing addition. Did you do that because you were worried about opening for James McAvoy on this pod? Is that why you just told that story? That's right. Speaking of, let's go now to my conversation with James McAvoy and James Watkins. joined by a pair of Jameses today, James Watkins and James McAvoy, the director and star of speak no evil. Thank you for being here guys.

Guys, you're both parents. And, um, I wanted to ask you about that. I was wondering when did you maybe see the original film of speak no evil and maybe how you felt about it as parents? Well,

should I start seeing as I probably was there first and this is James Watkins, by the way, I mean, although you could probably tell that it's not James McAvoy. The Blumhouse got in touch me and said, Look, we've got this really interesting movie, this really dark, twisted, gnarly, intelligent, Danish movie. Have a look. What do you you think and so so i watched it i thought it was amazing i thought christian's movie it just blew me away um and i thought ah i think this is a film that i can have a conversation with i can see a way into this that i can make it just a little

bit different and a bit you know and bring some of me and and bring some of the uk and and relocate it and that was the first conversation we had was can we set it in the uk because i sort of said if this was about a couple of new yorkers going to west virginia i wouldn't know how to write it but if we could set it in the uk i think i could and have that kind of the social rules but relocate them and reposition with some brits and and uh americans and then and then we send it to james um i did not watch the original film until we finished our film um so i didn't have that comparison to make and um but that was in purpose that was very that was very on purpose just because I didn't want to have to compare and I didn't want to feel beholden to

other people who did done but even if I was making a different choice just having a comparison would be no way helpful and it would just be a barrier to me given to it what I can bring to it. But it's your question of like, we're both parents. It's weird, isn't it? Like the the question of the children and the and the peril that is in the film because of the presence of the children, not just the peril that that is present because of the adults who are also in great danger um it heightens everything and i think that of the people that i know the people i'm close to who've seen the film

who've all said the same thing they come out really shaken um i'm always like okay but don't you find it really entertaining and really funny is there other film they're like they're all just like coming out shaking and i think it's because of the children more than anything maybe and them being in the presence of and subject to the kind of this sort of animalistic selfish carnal masculinity is just so frightening to be around at the best of time. But when it's children, it's just terrifying. It's harrowing. Watkins, we were talking before we started about how this film, while it is very scary, is also kind of funny.

It's sort of a comedy of manners about what happens when you find yourself encountered with new people and how do you acclimate to being around new people. I was wondering if you could talk about maybe developing the tone and balancing that and making it work. Well, it started in the script. And I think we've all been in that situation when you're in terms of, we want to dig into that sort of social anxiety.

I know you're at a party and you're with somebody and they're behaving a bit weird and you're not quite sure how to negotiate it. And then when you bring in the Americans against the Brits, you've got these Americans and they're looking at these Brits and looking at James these Americans and they're looking at these Brits and looking at James' character and they're thinking, okay, what are the signals? How do we read the social signals? And there's a lot of humor in that because they can look at Paddy and they can go, okay, is he just this really kind of slightly wild guy or is he eccentric?

When he's joking, they're going, is he funny or is this like weird British humor or is he eccentric? When he's joking, is he funny or is this weird British humour or is he a bit of a dick or is he fantastic? All the things, all the encoded ways of reading, how you read a person, and that's sort of a conversation I had continuously with James.

We wanted to lean into it and enjoy it. I know he says it's a not it is gnarly and and but I think it also has a lot of laughs when you sit in the cinema people are really enjoying you know not and we're walking that line and that was a conversation that James and I had continually about how how do you walk the line of his performance I suppose and James will speak more of it but it's definitely like continually you know red light green light hot cold and and continually unsettling wouldn't you say James definitely I think um no matter what he does no matter how far he goes he is somebody who is, seems to be anyway, genuinely enjoying his life. And that's really attractive, especially to somebody is between, uh,

some sort of horror and some sort of entertainment. It's between fun and terrible and it's between toxic masculinity and, um, a kind of like validation of a kind of, yes, all the world, the masculinity that, you know, maybe there is a way that that can be okay in this day and age.

And then I think it is also about projection as well. So you've got an American couple projecting their idea of what British people are like, or you've got a city. It's not even just American and British. It's also city people and country people as well. And this projection of what you think they are actually masks quite a lot of what they actually are. They're doing a lot of the work for themselves in terms of justifying Paddy's behaviour and Keira's behaviour.

That is being done just by the projection that they're putting on it because they don't want to be judgmental. They do want to be, they don't want to give people a chance. They don't want to judge a book by its cover. All these things are good things, but they are also helping them be drawn in. And then this is maybe just a side note,

but the thing I loved so much about this script that probably pulled me in more than anything is that you get this really nice couple of people who are essentially whatever good people are meant to be and they have got a fucking shit relationship and then you've got these horrific shit people who've got an amazing relationship and you just you go like i want to be like them like even though they're the bad guys you're like i want to be like them but all the way through that yeah it was about walking walking a line and also the other thing the other thing that i think lets us walk the line is that the audience know they're there to watch a horror movie and even if it is like exactly a horror movie maybe it's a social horror or whatever you want

to what sub-genre of horror you want to put it in, they watch something that's going to disturb them. And they came for that. They wanted that. And very early, they know my character is going to be the main sort of deliverer or delivery system for that. So they came for me. They came for fucking Paddy.

So it's just about how far you can push their sensibilities before pulling back. And then how far you push push their sensibilities before push pulling back and then how far you push them and go like how much do you want that and then what i think james did so brilliantly at a script level but then also on set on the day as a director and then even more in the edit is teasing out the tension of that because it's clear. It's clear there's going to be bad shit going down. But he teases it so long that the tension is so great.

Even though it's been undercut by laughs, you'd think that would make it, like undermine the tension, but it doesn't. It makes it worse and worse and worse so that there's not actually that much horrific stuff happens for a long time

in the movie but when it does all start to go down you've been sort of going oh this is fucking i don't want to watch this anymore but i do and i love that i love that did such a good job james you know mackay that's related to something I wanted to ask you about. And Watkins, maybe you can speak to this too. A lot of times when you talk to an actor who's playing a villainous part or a heavy in a movie, they say, like, I can't really think of them that way. I have to have empathy for the character. I have to find a way in. Otherwise, I can't live in this space all that time with them.

But, you know, Patty, as funny as he is and as much of a representation of a certain kind of masculinity as he is, like, you know, some really bad things happen in this movie. Some brutally unforgivable,

terrible things. So like, how do you think about playing a character like that? Especially since you've been taking on more parts like this in the last five, ten years.

I guess so. I just think I like stories. I don't need to like the person in the story to tell their story at i don't need to like the person in the story to tell their story at all um i i need to i think i need to sort of maybe be in a place where as an audience member i think i would enjoy watching this story or i would get something positive out of watching

the story i think i need that uh but i don't need to like the person i think what i need is to have elements of my character, my character, James' character, James McAvoy's character, not James Walken's character, that I share with the character. And they don't need to be the same size as the character. Like my capacity for murder and theft doesn't need to be as developed as Paddy's are, but they're there. They're there.

So there are certain aspects of my character that lend themselves very easily to Paddy that maybe aren't quite the same as his expression of that characteristic. Like my sexuality, my masculinity, my, my, my physical pride,

my ego. These are all big things in my life. These are all big things in my life. These are all big things in me. My capacity to murder, my need to torture, my need to taunt, my need to dominate, they're not parts of my character that are big. But they're there. And so you just need to tap into them. And I never really feel like I'm looking outward.

I'm never looking for inspiration from anywhere except from within. And so I don't need to like the person. I just need to use maybe sometimes if I don't like the person, I need to look within for the parts of myself that I don't like, that I repress or I suppress, sorry, and just examine them and cultivate them a little bit. But not in real life, just for fun, just on camera, just when they see action.

It sounds very healthy. I mean, Watkins, I'm curious for you too, in terms of writing Paddy and making this comparison point between his American sort of double, his weak, weak-kneed double, how much did you think about maybe your perspective on parenting or being in a relationship or the differences between cultures?

I'm curious how these two guys, what they represent to you. Well, I see a lot of guys, and whether it's men of my sort of age, I see a lot of men who feel angry or feel disappointed or feel a bit superannuated or on the scrap heap. And that's kind of when I was looking at Ben and that kind of slightly beta character of Ben who, you know, he's carrying a bit of a wound and whether it's his job, his marriage, he feels his life hasn't necessarily gone where it needed to go. And so then he sees this kind of untrammeled, you know, unlocked couple on holiday. And,

and, and he thinks, wow, you know, and they've got this, you know, they've got a difficult child and it's not easy, but they are so full of life.

Um, and he sees this kind of bad mentor, I suppose, you know, and, and, and thinks he can, that can unlock them.

And this couple think, Oh, maybe there's this kind of weird couples therapy thing that can go on. And so I sort of can see the seduction.'ve talked about it and you know there's i see it james and i had all these conversations from you know what james was saying from from classic you know james done a lot of theater and we talk about whether it's mcbeth or whatever these classical roles that you didn't have the habit but also political you know you look at these kind of demagogic figures in the world who basically say to disenfranchised people mainly men hey look i'm

the guy i can fix your problems i'm the drain the swamp i'm the maverick and mavericks it's like you know the devil has all the best tunes there's something about Mavericks that throughout stories just have appeal. And it's like people like bad boys. And it's whatever. And it's that sense. And I think James very kindly knew how to tap into that because it's seductive. We all like rule breakers. But essentially, ultimately, rules are there for a reason.

And a social contract is there for a reason. So it may be this weird, nice fantasy to say, hey, we can step out. But do so at your peril. Because when you do step out, and if you go full paddy yeah it leads somewhere not great what's that thing the social contract i think is the social contract is that we all agree that we will suppress our our dangerous animal instincts so that we can live in a society that means we can walk down the street and all kind of go like you're not going to kill me you're not of go like, you're not going to kill me. You're not going to kill me.

You're not going to kill me. And on some level, we are doing that walking down the street. But the social contract means that we're only doing it on a suppressed level. It's not at the forefront of our mind at every single moment. But Paddy lives on his own contract. And so does Kira. And they are more animal in that they see something they want, they will take it. They have to kill somebody to get it, they will kill them.

And they're living completely outwith the social contract. And they're loving it. They're much happier doing it than anybody else. I mean, I genuinely don't think, I think Paddy's definitely got his behavioural characteristics that come from some form of trauma and all that, definitely. But is he happy? I think he's quite happy.

Generally, I think he's capable of great happiness, which is all I hope for my son. I don't know if he'll be happy one day. I just hope he's capable of it. And I think he is. And Paddy is definitely capable of happiness. And that's really alluding, I think, to a certain type of man.

I'm going to make a kind of confession as a prompt for discussion. I'm a man in my 40s with a child. I go on vacation sometimes with my family. I've made vacation friends before. I'm intrigued by the idea of vacation friends. I'm also sort of terrified. And also in a post-COVID society,

I think we think about engaging with strangers in a very different way than we used to. And so this movie has this kind of elevated feeling of like, do I have enough friends? Do I need to really extend myself any further in my life? Do I need to live a bigger life than I'm already living? And this movie is almost like an insistence upon not doing that so I don't know how much you I don't know if you guys make friends

on vacation if that feels like a very normal thing to you or if it feels like perhaps a relic too but culturally I find that to be such a fascinating launch point for the film yeah I mean I've just been I got back yesterday from Turkey and I was there with two other family at my family and two other families. Who's and they were their parents at my kid's school. And anyway, they watched the trailer for the movie and they were all like, shit, should we really be on holiday with my friends and my sister and her fella and their children. And she's like my best friend. But so I don't actually make holiday friends because we go as friends a lot of the time.

I think whether it's holiday friends or where it's whether it's this thing that james was talking about earlier james watkins uh about couples therapy i have seen that happen as well where you don't even need to go on vacation but you've met this other couple and it's just like fuck they've got it it just seemed to have it so right and it's so you're trying to learn something from them somehow and of course no couple is perfect nobody's got it so right and it's sort of you're trying to learn something from them somehow and of course no couple is perfect nobody's got it all right and if they do seem that they got it all right they're probably hiding something really wrong and um that's the other aspect of it as well which i think is it's it's it's about projection again and ben particularly he he's so desperate

to find a way to fix this malaise that he's in and his life isn't terrible he's got enough in the bank probably to last a few years until he figures out how to do some shit job to pay the bills but it's just nothing's great and we that's the other part of society that's the other part of the social contract it's meant to be it's meant to be great it's certainly the latter days it's the dream is sold to as much more that it should be really fulfilling it should be really fun and when you look at the quality of life we all have showers i never had that 50 years ago showers what a fucking luxury do you mean cars and there's like the amount of calories we get to consume a day is like beyond anything that we could have done in the last 100 years and like

life should be so fucking great at the moment and it's why is it not I don't know this guy seems to be really able to enjoy his life he must have the answers then do you know what I mean and he really seems to like his wife seems to be attracted to him and he's attracted and they're still having sex even though they've got a kid. And like, I mean, that would be incredible. Let's have some of that. And also, I think there's something in the attraction of Patty that is like, we're in a world now where everybody is self-censoring and worried about what

they say and saying the wrong thing. So to see somebody that doesn't give a shit and will say what he likes and is unfiltered, you know, whether you want to be that person or not, there's an appeal to it. There's an attraction to that character. Well, I wonder if it's as simple as like the social contract takes a toll and it takes a toll on some people more than others.

And on Ben, it's taken a massive toll. The social contract, the multiple social contracts, you pay your tax, you get healthcare, you stay faithful to your partner, then you have a high level of trust or companionship for the rest of your life. You don't walk out on your children, then you have a meaningful relationship with that child that is fulfilling. And the contract doesn't always pay you back for your investment in it. And so you end up with people like Ben and, um, and then I'm just about to say the same thing again.

And then you meet somebody like, like Paddy, who, who, who has no regard for the contract has no, no sort of compromise in him. And that's the thing. The contract is a compromise.

You compromise your freedom for safety. You compromise your, your freedom for safety you compromise your your choices for security and paddy just goes fuck it no compromise and uncompromising people are so easy to admire but if everybody was uncompromising we'd have anarchy and people would be fucking slaughtering each other and it'd be a disaster but yeah i don't know what i'm saying i'm just talking now no i had i had a reading about that in the movie too that is sort of the the other side of that coin which is that it seems like through the most of the movie there's a kind of anxiety about helicopter parenting you know and paying too much attention to our children but then by the time you

get to the end of the movie you're like you know maybe we should be paying close attention to our children you know maybe we shouldn't let them out of our sight. And if they feel an angst about something, we need to pay close attention to that. And so I was wondering, you know, Watkins especially, like how much you think about that in the film and like how much of it is a reflection of how you see the world and how much of it is the convention of when a patty enters your life, you maybe see things a little differently.

Well, look, with children, it's really interesting because it's, you know, as parents, you have anxiety. Are you doing it right? What are you doing? How do you do it? And, you know, there's a key line for me in the movie is when Louise says to Agnes, you know, there's some things you can think, but you can't say, you know, and it's that notion of what we think and what we express and you know and she's sort of shutting down her daughter and and really you know the film's called speak no evil and it's you got these notion of kids and a bit like paddy that you know they are kids are unfiltered initially and they don't you know and they learn the social rules and you know and and the irony of that one of the ironies of the movie is then you know here these kids trying to communicate and say what's going on. And the parents who want to be these great parents aren't really listening and paying attention.

Um, so I think, yeah, it's definitely encoded that, that notion of how, you know, how to parent and, you know, it's, everybody has those anxieties and looks at, you know, looks at other couples and say, are they doing it better? Are we doing it right? Um, and I, and I think that, you know, for me, horror movies or psychological thrillers or whatever you want to call them. And James and I had this conversation a lot. We didn't, you know, when we first met, I went to his house and we talked about it. The conversation was all about kind of theme, you know,

all that stuff about what's this about and you know and how do we live and how do we negotiate these things and and i think we both felt that you know horror movies the ones that spoke to both of us i think we connected on that were the ones that actually and you know bloomhouse got a brilliant record in some of their movies with this is they have a kind of relatability social relatability in terms of our lives and how we live and our anxieties. And for me, the most interesting, horror movies are not necessarily, it's not about jump scares. It's about getting under the skin and kind of just luring away a little bit of those everyday fears that we all have. How do we relate to other

people? How do we relate to kids? Are we doing it right? All of those sorts of things. McAvoy, I wanted to ask you about your physicality in the movie. So both your relationship with Aisling's character and also just that you're jacked in the movie, maybe bigger than I feel like you've ever been on screen. Maybe just talk about that decision

and what went into that. Honestly, it wasn't a decision for the film it was i i um i had had my second child in 2021 and um i just was like i'm getting i'm moving deeper into my 40s and i was like and i can't just use having another kid is another excuse as as I did with my first kid, for three or four years to just do zero exercise because I'm tired and I can't sleep. So I was like, I just need to change it. I need to do something.

And so I started going back to the gym and I thought I'll do something different than I did before. And I enjoyed working with this trainer, Magnus Ligbeck, on glass. And so I thought I'll just do what he taught me to do, but I'll just push it as taught me to do but I'll just push it as hard as I can so I just started

eating tons and I started doing a lot of Olympic weightlifting and so by the time

that James met me for this I think it was I'd been doing that for about a year and a half and I was just the biggest and strongest and heaviest

I've ever been in my life and it just worked out perfectly for the character so it wasn't a choice it was absolutely just the biggest and strongest and heaviest I've ever been in my life. And it just worked out perfectly for the character. So it wasn't a choice. It was absolutely just a chance. And then physicality-wise, I mean, like when we were at the pool at the beginning, I tried to kind of go for this. I don't really go for images and I don't really look for inspiration from other actors

or anything like that ever. But the image of like Ray Winston in Sexy Beast with his belly out I was like let's do that and I tried to get my belly out a little bit at the beginning and sort of just make him a bit softer even if he was like this sort of alpha or at least alpha projecting male figure and he's overbearing and like in your face and swinging his dick about all the time there's something soft about him you know what I mean knowing that by the time we get to the end of the movie I'll have tightened up a little bit and then um and also I'll start doing shit like actors do before having to do action scenes and like pump up and all that kind of stuff so that my muscles will be all swollen and stuff like that when he's meant to be frightening and

then the other part of the physicality that you referred to there with Aisling was that just sex had to be in the air all the time because you've got this couple who may or may not have had sex for ever since their child was born and she's like, what, 11? And we don't even know if it works anymore, that stuff, like even if they wanted to try, does their anatomy still want to do it?

All that. And you come into the room and you've just got it like it's you can probably smell that they've had sex you know what i mean and they're just at it all the time because and it's not just about sex it's not just about being base i do believe certainly what ashling and i played anyway, we genuinely loved each other. They genuinely, like they're despicable people, but you'd kill and they have killed. You'd kill to love like they love,

you know? And that's, so they kind of, the embarrassment of being in a room with people like that, when you're not like that, it's so hard. I remember, I remember being in a room with people like that when you're not like that is so hard I remember I remember being in a room with oh no I can't tell the story because it's like yeah come on this isn't being recorded I've got a couple of relatives

I've got a couple of relatives who may be older than me who you just tell just fancy the pants off each other they just fancy each other so much and they still do and um and i remember once when i was quite young um i don't think i'm doing them a disservice by saying this i remember once being around them when i was quite young and feeling almost intimidated by that level of affection because it wasn't something I had in my life at that time, you know? And, um, and that was a strange response to what is only a positive thing. And I remember thinking with Kira and Paddy, they should, it should be almost hard to be around them sometimes because they've got such a positive thing. That's such a weird, it's such a strange problem to have, isn't it? No, but you conveyed that very, very well.

Oh, good, good. Gents, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing they have seen. Have either of you seen anything good recently? You know, it should be a film, but it could be anything. You know, people have said the Roman Colosseum.

Oh. Oh. Oh, God. That was so crap. I had a handyman come over and erect a child's playset in my back garden. And I thought that would have taken me three days. And it took him four hours. And I was like, that's the best thing I've seen in quite a long time. You're sort of the Ben in that situation then, not so much the Paddy.

That's why it's okay for me to play Paddy. Watkins, have you seen anything? Challenges is probably still my favorite film I've seen recently. I thought it was so well done, so well acted, brilliantly directed, loved the music, loved the vibe. I've got teenage kids, they loved it. It was kind of like a multi-generational kind of love fest in my family, which is nice when you go to the cinema and everybody's everyone just came out smiling

it was great it's a great recommendation I thought Speaking of Evil was a blast thanks Matt can I say one other recommendation absolutely

artistic because now I'm like inspired by what James said I better say something real or artistic it's on Broadway at the moment

Jamie Lloyd's Sunset Boulevard is one of the best nights at the theatre I think I've ever had in my life and I'm not a musicals person I did not think I was going to go and love Sunset Boulevard is one of the best nights at the theater I think I've ever had in my life and I'm not a musicals person I did not think

I was going to go and love Sunset Boulevard it was it's mind-blowingly good fantastic recommendation congrats on the film guys thanks for doing this I appreciate it

thank you so much for having us cheers so much thank you to James McAvoy thank you to James McAvoy. Thank you to James Watkins. Thank you to Chris Ryan and Amanda Dobbins for being completely deranged on this episode.

Thanks to Martha the Tiger for spreading her seed. Thank you so much to Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. Thanks to our producer Bobby Wagner for his work as well. Not sure if I want to be thanked for this one. I haven't decided. This has been a good pod. Thank you so much for listening to it. Next week, early next week, we'll be

joined by Adam Naiman. Showdad. Showdad, yeah. So he saw the film Saturday Night. I don't know if he's willing to address the film on the podcast. What do you think? Is it a cowardly act to not address it? I will ask him anyway.

I'm not afraid to pose the tough questions. When we return, we'll also be doing the big Oscar bet. How are you feeling about making those predictions? The brutalists across the board?

I mean, I have been giving a lot of thought to what I'm going to do with that one. Great. Exciting. Yeah.

See you then.