The Big Picture - ‘Terrifier 3,’ ‘Smile 2,’ and the 10 Best Horror Movies of 2024

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

Sean is joined by Chris Ryan to discuss the biggest film at the box office, ‘Terrifier 3,’ the third installment of the independently made horror clown franchise that has become this year’s biggest box office surprise (1:00). After, they talk about another horror franchise that’s become a reliable sensation for moviegoers, ‘Smile 2’ (23:00); they go over the impressive filmmaking but ultimately choppy story. They then transition to each sharing their top five horror movies of the year so far (1:15:00), including some obvious bellwethers like ‘Longlegs’ and some franchise entries like ‘Alien: Romulus’ and ‘The First Omen.’ Host: Sean Fennessey Guest: Chris Ryan Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey y'all, Syrit Sohi from The Ringer here, and I wanted to let you guys know about a new show that I'm hosting, The Ringer WNBA Show. We're going to be talking about all the biggest personalities, breaking down and analyzing the latest happenings that make The W so fascinating. Featuring some of the best guests and experts from around the league. Tap in with us on the brand new Ringer WNBA Show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. With TD Direct Investing, you can get live support. So whether you need help buying a partial share

from your favorite tech company, opening a TFSA, or learning about investing tools, we're here to help. But keeping your cat off your keyboard? That's up to you. Reach out to TD Direct Investing today and make your investing steps count.

Plus enjoy 1% cash back. Conditions apply. Offer ends January 31st, 2025. Visit td.com slash dioffer to learn more. I'm Sean Fennessey, and this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about horror. Today on the show, Chris Ryan joins me for one of my favorite episodes of the year. It's our annual Halloween season horror extravaganza. Today on the show, we'll talk about two new releases in theaters that we've both seen,

and quite a few that are on streaming right now, and then also the year in horror itself. Horror has been one of the most consistent performing genres at the movies for roughly the last 20 years, as everything else fell down around it. And it's in this fascinating state. How would you describe the state that horror is in these days? Financially lucrative, but creatively weird. A bit mixed, a bit up in the air right now. Some exciting things are happening.

Some strange things are happening. Some not so good things are happening. Some strange things are happening. Some not so good things are happening. What should we talk about today? Should we talk about Terrifier 3 first? We got to talk about art. So I've gotten some messages from people who listen to the show who've been very mad that we have done episodes now on Saturday night and the New York Film Festival and The Apprentice before addressing Art the Clown. Art the Clown, of course, is the star, the lead figure, the madcap costumed clown killer of the Terrifier series. Yeah.

This movie is the number one movie in America right now. Who'd have thunk it? Look at us. Two guys who love horror movies. This is definitely an example of us reaping what we sowed. Very much so. I'm glad to hear you frame it that way. So, you know,

Terrifier 2, which was released in 2022, which is written and directed by Damien Leone. All these films are written and directed by Damien Leone, was this surprise hit. It made $15 million in theaters.

It was a sort of for the crowd, crowdfunded horror mini indie sensation. And it took me by surprise. I had seen, I think I had seen the original Terrifier. Maybe I hadn't seen it until after Terrifier 2 blew up. I can't quite remember. I didn't see T1 until after T2. Okay.

I know. And it's like Cameron now. He is like, Damian Leone is like the James Cameron of this era of horror. And so this third installment, there was a ton of anticipation for it amongst this very defined community of horror heads, particularly gore heads. And I would say, well, tell me what your relationship is to the series before we talk about three. These movies are kill forward. They, to this point, have been very light on story. They do have a classic final girl in Lauren Laveraa who is at the center of the story as Sienna.

But they are... She's got bad luck, man. That character. She keeps running into this crazy clown and his adjacent hench people. Do you like the Terrifier films? I worry about myself in this case because

I'm sure there are tests you can take to find out if you're a sociopath or whatever. Where are those tests? I think it might be watching Terrifier and not having an emotional reaction to it at all. Like, I admire it as like a piece of dance where I'm like, God, the choreography, you know, that's pretty impressive. But does not, like, I don't understand the narrative or get moved by the stakes. I would not describe these films as

particularly tense or visceral they are you just are watching honestly it takes me back to being on the couch a blunt is being passed someone has put on

the jizz a record and we are watching Faces of Death it feels illicit it has cheap thrills it's very dark that obviously was like real

and that's and very fucked up but I think it was not real actually I think the Faces. That obviously was like real and that's very fucked up. But I think it was not real actually. I think the Faces of Death films were not real. But there's some stuff in Faces of Death that was like news footage

that was unedited and stuff. Right, right. That's true. And so that's how I feel when I watch Terrifier where it's like this feels transgressive and it wasn't the sensation

at the box office. I don't know necessarily that we would be dedicating the top of a show to it. But, I mean, I'm down for the clown. You know what I mean? I'm glad this is happening. I think it's like a really awesome sign that there's just a voracious audience

for a certain kind of filmmaking out there that Hollywood didn't understand and didn't make films for. And we've kind of talked about this before, the like light PG 13 to 13ification of horror. And like seeing a couple of things where like, damn dog, you really,

you took your foot off the gas right at the point where it could have gone into overdrive. And Leon's just like, I got my foot. My foot is nailed to the gas pedal by a clown. I think everything you said is right, except that there is a slightly different way to see these movies.

So they are really intense, gory, and disgusting in terms of how they portray the kills. But the Art the Clown character, and I would also say like the kind of pacing and framing of the story. It's kind of goofy. It's very itchy and scratchy. Yeah.

That's how it's been described recently. It's very like high comic, like Buster Keaton wielding any. Yeah. That's how it's been described recently. It's very like high comic like Buster Keaton wielding an axe. Yeah. And I like that is kind of an innovation

to be honest. There's not a lot of examples. There's obviously a lot of comedy and horror. It reminds me a little bit of Killer Clowns

from Outer Space 2 which had a very similar tone which is quiet and awkward waiting for something awful to happen. The difference here is that Damien Leone

has this sustained focus on the kills. There's one in Terrifier 2, the bedroom kill. Yeah. That is probably... That's Ali? Yes. That's probably the craziest kill sequence, probably in movie history.

Yeah. In part because it is sort of durational. You know, it's like Tarkovsky, but for slashing someone's skin off. And I have to doff my cap. Yeah. To Leon. This new film has a handful of incredible moments that we can talk in detail if you'd

like to. It's kind of weird to be like, and then the arm was ripped off. It stabbed in the dick. The second film is like over two hours. This film is also over two hours. They are meant to be these kind of magnum opuses of absurdity. There's a little bit more lore building in this new film that I'm not interested in. Yeah.

I don't care about art's backstory. Hell makes an appearance in Terrifier 3. There's an idea of how art is regenerated. Not art, you know, like what we cover here, but like art the clown is regenerated when you think he's been decapitated by this special sword. And it turns out that he's got his ways of getting back into it, you know?

It's funny too, because this movie has something distinctly in common with the next movie that we'll talk about, Smile 2, and that both films take place, like, in the immediate aftermath of the last film. So this film opens in the insane asylum where Art has befriended Victoria Hayes and has survived Sienna's onslaught with her sword. She's given birth to his head, right? Yes. Which is just a beautiful image. And they said about this weird... Bobby must be so confused right now.

Bob, you have any idea what we're talking about? I just feel like I'm watching basically like if Mozart and Bach got in the same room together talking about the piano. And I don't know shit about how to play the piano, but it's beautiful to watch. That is how it feels. Thank you for acknowledging our ability to wrap our arms around these masterpieces. We don't know shit about how to play the piano, but it's beautiful to watch. That is how it feels. Thank you for acknowledging our ability

to wrap our arms around these masterpieces. I don't need, we don't have to recap the plot of the movie. But the point is, is that there is an attempt to build out more beyond Art and his relationship with Sienna and her family. The thing that I did like about the movie that I thought was very funny is its relationship to true crime junkies

and the way that they're punished in this movie, which was very, very funny. There is a couple, particularly a woman, who is fascinated by the story of Arthur Clown and Sienna and everything that has happened to her. And she and her partner meet a grisly, grisly end. Is that the shower scene? That's the shower scene.

And I enjoyed myself there. There was real Leo pointing at the screen situation during that moment. Honestly, that is what should happen to everybody who is obsessed with true crime. They should have their dicks cut off and they should be mutilated for hours. You are the clown thing.

We've never seen anything like it. I'm honestly amazed. Do you know what this made me think of is, and this actually made me really happy. The success of this film, you know how like every like once a year, twice a year, out of nowhere, there will be like a Christian evangelist movie where it's like a man and a dog on a road trip, but the dog has the soul of his father, you know? Sure. this is the counterpoint, but it's Satan. Yeah. And it's like, I'm glad that there are people out there who are like, I am the devil. Like, I needed to see this.

I needed this part of my imagination. People who are pointing at the screen and saying, that is zaddy. Yeah. Art is zaddy. Yeah. It kind of makes me feel good that the scales of justice are balanced, you know?

Well, the way that I was thinking about the third one watching it, this gave me a little bit of comfort and context into understanding why I dig these movies, which is that they're Michael Bay movies. Michael Bay movies often don't have the finest scripts. They're often high concept, low execution in the storytelling. But there's every 18 minutes, something happens where you're like,

I've never fucking seen that before. That is amazing that they did that. And I feel very similarly about these movies that the set pieces, the thing you are waiting for and the awkward tension as you wait for that thing to transpire is fascinating. And from a Hollywood business perspective, this is a great story. This is a great story. I think it portends something a little bit more complicated, not necessarily bad. But I did want to talk to you a little bit about this because at the box office, horror has been down a bit this year.

I think most of that is attributable to the strikes. Most of that is because a lot of projects that would have been in production or would have had reshoots or whatever were removed. If you look at the movies

that are coming out next year, there are a ton of franchise horror movies planned for 2025. This is happening with TV as well. Yes. If you look at the movies that are coming out next year, there are a ton of franchise horror movies planned for 2025. But in these open spots that have appeared, you've seen indie filmmakers fill them up. And they're almost like a stress test for what horror fans really want. So to your point about the PG-13ification of horror over the last 10 years. That would be like, if people are trying to think of what we're talking about, like Night Swim would be a good example of a movie

where I'm like, the only people going to Night Swim want to see the truly most fucked up version of Night Swim they can see. And sometimes I felt like Night Swim would be like, oh, we don't want to, we don't want to scare you. Yeah, I think,

I think Blumhouse and Atomic Monster, I think any of the shingles, you know, the Sony shingles like Studio Six and everything that comes out of there. All of those movies are trying to appeal to teenagers. They're trying to get as many younger people into the theater. When in fact, weird 40-something dudes just love to watch somebody get their head cut off with a motorboat engine. Guys who stared deeply at the Rain and Blood album art.

Like, want to fucking see this. All the Slayer babies who were raised on true horror, they do want these things. But what I'm seeing now is this kind of stratification where this could be what movies look like in the future for other genres,

where you have smaller projects that have really strong fan bases that are crowdfunded or funded by a handful of investors and are platformed differently than the way we see studio movies get platformed. And so what it creates is like an increasingly fractured anti-monoculture. Yeah, it's like politics. Yes. And you don't necessarily have to say, I'm against Terrifier 3 and I'm only for Nicholas Sparks adaptations but

they just don't they're they're not talking to each other they're not related in any way it's almost becomes like a different art form that's interesting to me that's a really fascinating

take I hadn't really considered that I hadn't really considered the knock-on effect to it because you have to understand that like they'll do anything to make a buck in this

town absolutely you know what I mean but but they're overlooking something many things, it feels like. But it almost is like, oh, if we can just outsource this

to Damien Leone. But like, I guess, I guess the one thing you could say is that if Terrifier 3 somehow had a connection to, not Disney, but like Paramount

or something, would there be moral outcry about it? Would people be like, oh, we can boycott Paramount. We can, I'm actually kind of shocked that people aren't more outraged by this, given the culture wars.

I think that that fractured. Like JD Vance, where are you, man? Like, aren't the clowns right? Last time that question will ever be asked on this podcast. I think that what's happened is, is that people don't care anymore. Like it is only for the sickos

and they've found the $30 million worth of sickos and they're speaking directly to them and everyone else doesn't have to participate. Wait until like eight days when all the kids in America are dressed as Arthur Clown for Halloween. Well, I guess that could happen. That was, if the film becomes

that level of a true sensation, maybe that's possible. But I don't think that the culture wars operate in the true sensation, maybe that's possible. But I don't think that the culture wars operate in the same way as they used to. No. I don't think it's about,

like, protect the kids from Art the Clown. I think it's much more like, protect the kids from, like, gender bathroom decisions. And because of that,

the horror sickos and people who listen to, like, aggressive music or people who, like, Just address me by name if you want. Just, like, guys like you who are into h me by name if you want just like guys

like you were into hentai you know like anybody like that you guys can kind of have fun on your own you're left to your own devices quite literally and I think that's

an interesting turn of events you know we don't have these Tipper Gore-esque figures now in our culture saying like Arthur Clown is ruining my child's life

so much like you very much in support of these movies and will continue to watch them and enjoy them and love the references they make back to slasher films of the 80s and everything.

There is invisible SEO around this movie. And there's a virality to it that I think is very contemporary where I do think part of its popularity is looking at a YouTube headline that's like, you won't believe the sick prank I just pulled where I pretend to be dead. You know, like this movie has that.

It's just not written on the poster. But this has got kind of like a nobody's ever, this is how Longlegs got marketed. The scariest movie of the century and all this stuff. They're not doing that with Terrifier 3, but they could just be like the sickest shit you've ever seen. You can't even imagine what they do to people in this movie. If you ever wanted to see a guy get his dick stabbed 21 times, it happens. I think it's because the horror community is so loyal and often uncritical. And in some cases you and I are uncritical. Like I'm

much more willing to give a pass to a mediocre horror movie if it has one great sequence than a prestige drama that I feel like makes a wrong turn at a certain point, and I hold that against it. And, you know, if that's a contradiction, so be it. I don't really know what to say. I'm just more likely to have more fun at a horror movie that has something for me. These movies, though, they know how to find their audience and their audience is not worried about converting other people. Like they're evangelical

about their love for something, but not about convincing you to like it. They're happy to have the thing that they like and sit in it. Long Legs was a little different because that was not an, it's still an independent movie, still a neon movie,

but it's a movie that features Nicolas Cage, who's very famous and was marketed marketed during sports. Yeah. Which, Terrifier 3 is not doing that. They don't have an ad buy across the Ringer podcast network, aside from this episode, which is gratis, for the record. And I think I'm really, honestly, inspired by that. I think it's very, very cool that they were able to build something up to this point independently and that it seems like

Damien Leone retains ownership of this project in a meaningful way and can do with it whatever he likes. This isn't even, you know, the first Terrifier movie

isn't even the first time art appeared. He appeared in the All Hallows Eve movie, which is over 10 years ago. This is like a life's work that he's been working towards. The fact that it has culminated

in multiple dick stabbings, that's great. It's not, if you've been paying attention to the independent horror scene it's not shocking that something like this has come out of it because for there's a lot of trilogies and series that are long running for the last 15 years that have made their bones on vod and and fests and kind of word of mouth. And they're really cheap. You recommended, I think, three years ago, the Hell House LLC films, which now I feel like there are five or six of them.

There's four, I think, now. Okay, four. Yeah, I think they just put, I think they just did a fourth one. Okay. I mean, that's an example of what you're talking about, where those movies must cost $500,000. I don't know. Yeah, like, it can't be that much.

But, like, those... I watch it. I'll watch every single one of them. Yeah, it's a fascinating thing. It is something that horror can do that... There can't be, like, a version of this for Oppenheimer, for example, but... It's not trying hard enough. Chris Nolan.

I haven't talked about that. Can we talk about the Chris Nolan rumors? Yeah, yeah. Go ahead. Okay, so the one... There's three rumors right now what the movie is. All I've heard is espionage.

What have you heard? I've heard horror or the prisoner adaptation, which I've apparently been debunked. Okay. The third one that is the craziest is that he is making an adaptation of Blue Thunder, the Roy Scheider helicopter cop movie. Oh, the John Badham movie? Yeah. Okay.

Why would he do that? I don't know. I haven't seen that movie in years. Okay. That's very weird. Can you imagine if Christopher Nolan was like, I need to make a helicopter cop movie? Well, let's game out his horror.

Since this is the horror episode. Chris Nolan's horror movie. Guy kills his wife. Yeah, definitely. You know, he's haunted by it in some way. It's just what lies beneath. Is that the movie? She's got to come back, right?

So she comes back for her vengeance. Maybe it's like and maybe it's like all of the dead wives of Nolan's filmography. That's great. That's really good.

You know, Cotillard and Gyllenhaal and all our baddies come back. I like that quite a bit. One, I love when quote unquote prestigious directors dip their toes in horror. back I like that quite a bit I I won I love when quote-unquote prestigious directors dip their toes in horror I love when De Palma returns to that sort

of thing I really really like that that would be bold to have just completed this Oppenheimer run this billion-dollar best picture winning run and to make a dingy fucked up scary movie I mean I would that would fully convert me to Nolan. Right now, you're Chris Curious. Yeah, yeah.

I'm open-minded about everything that he does. Truly, I'm like, how will he do in his Fox News interview? I'm not sure. How did you feel about the Fox News interview? She did her best. Brett Baier, is he a real journalist or just a party hack? What do you think?

No thoughts. I think that these movies are... Do you think that she would have been sick if Kamala had cut back to her and she was doing the smile? I was just going to

make that joke, yeah. Do you think we should talk about smile? Is there anything else you want to say about the Terrifier movies? Would you recommend them to anybody who's not a freak?

Honestly, no. I think that you you and I are almost like I do worry about us that we're just like this imagery has absolutely no impact on our dreams and nightmares.

Yeah, this is good. But I think showing it to like Bobby he would either be like you two need to go into a criminally insane asylum. Yeah.

Or like what the fuck is wrong with you? Like who would watch this for pleasure but lots of people you know or maybe i'm being prude i don't know i mean i love this shit but like i don't i i wouldn't show it to somebody in gen pop let's do some self-exploration here quickly because on the one hand like i think an ongoing bit about me on the show is that i'm a sociopath right there's been a lot of hay made of you know plain sean and not knowing how to communicate

with people sometimes not turning off the charm or whatever because I'm like, I gotta go somewhere. It doesn't sound like you've been paying attention to those episodes at all. Wearing my AirPods, no. But I've been paying attention to my interactions with my friends who point these things out to me. But I think, I think, you can mock me if you want. I think I'm like a pretty regular guy.

Yeah. And I think you are too. I'd like to think so. I think we're just like, I go to the grocery store. I hang out with my family. I watch sports. I throw a Zen in. I'm watching Thursday Night Football. Yeah, you crank into some hentai and you go to the grocery store, I hang out with my family, I watch sports. I throw a Zen in. I'm watching Thursday Night Football.

Yeah. You crank into some hentai and you go to sleep. Swiping on some Instagram reels, you know, checking out some kettlebell swing workout routines. Dude, I saw a reel today that was,

it's fucking guys making plans in their late 30s and it's the, actually it's the juice scene from Heat and it's Kilmer is the single guy De Niro is recently married and Sizemore is long time

relationship married and Sizemore is just like I need it the action is the juice it's good good shit

you love reels sure but I'm just a guy I'm just a guy and I make that point because I'm like this is the sickest thing I do. This is my

probably my addiction at this point is how many horror movies a year can I watch? I noted I logged 53 horror movies that were released this year for this episode. Many of which are not good and we won't talk about them. But I'm seeking a thrill. I'm seeking something that I can't get

anywhere else with this stuff. Terrifier 3 is definitely not the best movie that we'll talk about in this episode but it is at the highest level of like, whoa!

A good segue to this is that we saw Smile 2 was more of like a fan screening. It was. We saw it the other day and, you know, it's me and Sean

and we're just like, hello, and what do you think of the top of the order for the Mets? And then everybody else is dressed rather goth, like pretty goth. Yes. Like we're just like, hello, and what do you think of the top of the order for the Mets? And then everybody else is dressed rather goth, like pretty goth.

Like we're horror fans, self-identified, reflecting it back in the world. I think that's much healthier than what we do. Oh, interesting. I think we're batemanning out

where we're just like, we're just normal guys who wear like J.Crew and then we fucking watch art. Beat a woman with her own arms and scald her with acid. But why can't I have it all?

Like, why can't I shop at J.Crew and consume this content? That's the thing is, I also don't want to be castigated for that. Yeah. I want to be, I don't need to, you know, I don't need to make it my costume

is what I'm trying to say. That's great. That's good. Let's talk about Smile 2. Smile 2 is the huge horror release of the weekend. Smile 1,

which came out two years ago as well, was the horror mega hit of that year. It grossed $217 million. First time filmmaker Parker Finn, his debut.

An original story, exactly the kind of thing I'm begging for in the horror space. And this follow up, once again, comes from Paramount. It is also,

like Terrifier 3, set just days after the event. So the first film, there's this malevolent entity in these movies. It transfers from person to person upon death. The rules of which

are somewhat complicated. They are complicated. We can talk about whether they work or don't work. But Kyle Gallner, legend now of genre filmmaking,

of horror films, probably the biggest guy going in the space in the last 10 years who appeared you know earlier this year in Strange Darling and has had this great run

Dinner in America I don't know if you ever saw that movie but that movie is having a huge bump which is not quite a horror movie but a genre

and it's from the guy who made Snack Shack and that check out Dinner in America when you get home you will really like it nevertheless he's having this great run

and the movie kind of opens on him. It ended on him and it opens on him. His cop, it's a character named Joel. Joel. Joel the police officer.

And eventually it finds its way from Joel to Sky Riley. Sky Riley is a pop star portrayed by Naomi Scott in this movie. She has had a grim accident one year earlier

and she's getting over some personal struggles. She's gone to rehab for her substance abuse and she's attempting to relaunch her career and her tour after these struggles and she's stricken with the smile malady. What did you think of the first smile?

So that was one you were asking me a little while ago like why why do you think that this was just a hit one of the great horror trailers of recent memory just an incredible bit everybody i was every time you would see it in the theater which you know with amc it's like you see it fucking every time you would just be like i gotta see what this smile thing is about so i got it The actual product compared to the trailer is much different. It's much more dour.

It's very serious. It's much more like about trauma. Trauma core, yeah. And like, you know, just like a lot of like, this is actually all just a metaphor for this person's issues or whatever. I thought that this film

kind of split it to difference. Where, A, much more fun. Maybe not like a fun time, but much more fun. There were obvious scenes that were made for jokes. There were characters who were there for comic relief. The culmination of the film is very daffy and then winds up almost on a pretty slick joke. There's a punchline almost at the end.

So while I admired it maybe even more than the first one, I still feel like there is something unintentionally repetitive about the scenes in the story that just don't really do it for me on a big level. I'm glad I'm watching it when I'm watching it. I'm happy to have seen it. But there's something about the way Finn stages scenes that never feels like

the ball is going downfield. It feels like we're having the same play over and over again. And then he rushes all of this mythology in to explain everything, to wrap everything up. I think that's a great way

to describe it. I am really, really mixed on the first movie and this movie for very simple reasons. One, I think that's a great way to describe it. I am really, really mixed on the first movie and this movie for very simple reasons. One, I think the craft in this movie is pretty amazing.

I think he's got a very distinct style and he basically manages to manifest the feeling of being stuck in the smile headspace by having this roving camera that's kind of moving

in POV fashion all over the place at all times. And he's got this crazy control of sound design where the sound cuts out entirely and you know something horrible is going to happen and you can feel yourself gripping your chair as it's happening. So he builds towards scares very well. He's also really in a practical gore, which I love. He did a great job with it in the first film. Even better job in this movie. Clearly had a lot more money to spend on this movie.

I think he gets great performances out of his actors. Naomi Scott's really good. She's excellent in this movie. But ultimately, I find these movies really shrill and annoying. I find like after an hour

of being inside of the Smile story that it is redundant, like you say, that he does not really iterate on the idea of the first film in any meaningful way I saw some people

someone suggest interestingly that actually using Joel as the lead would have been a more interesting choice because what a cop does

when they know there's something wrong with them and they have to transfer this violence to someone else could have created this is the best scene

in the movie the opening scene of this movie is amazing. Yeah. And it really, what it made me want was his action movie or his heist movie and not his horror movie. Well, it's not really even, I would argue that this is hardly a horror movie as much as it's a musical and a kind of stars born thing that then has to have a horror movie at the end. And I think he does some interesting stuff using the pop star conceit because

obviously we know having watched movies about them and documentaries and read about them being a pop star is incredibly isolating. It seemed like that in

Trap as well you know. Very true and what a time for that. Lady Raven versus Sky Riley like the stands are out. Yeah and I think because of that and

I've seen a lot of people compare this to Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue as well, which I know you haven't seen, but it's an anime movie about a pop star and about the paranoia of being a pop star. And I think that there's some interesting

psychological ideas there, but also that is one of the most unrelatable experiences in the world. And the first film is just about a regular girl who gets stuck with this and who's going through her life and trying to figure it out. Naomi Scott is asked to do a lot to portray like not just the addiction, but the sort of like the sense that success is slipping through your fingers, that you've worked really hard to build something and it's going away. The problem is,

and this is why I find the movie shrill. Not only does he overemphasize like the sound design and the jump scares and it's very jump scary. The movie can be written off as all happening in someone's head. And so there are dozens and dozens of minutes of events

that are just imagined. We were trying to identify when if you so this is spoilers I guess for Smile 2. After she gets the smile passed on to her,

it's basically like, at what point does she start hallucinating? And there are full characters and full storylines that at the end of the film, it seems apparent, never actually took place. It's unclear. But it's like 60% of the movie. So, it's a cool twist, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's like a sixth of the movie. So it's a cool twist, but I wouldn't necessarily say

it's like a sixth sense twist because you know, you know that a lot of stuff is happening in her head. Also like the kind of capabilities of the smile demon, which can, it can text,

you know, like it seems like it's like somewhat in the world, but also needs vessels. It was just, it's a little confusing at times. It's just not clear. Yeah.

I think it doesn't go out of its way. It's totally fine. Like, I've seen way fucking crazier horror movies and I'm like, I'm with it. Like, I'm just rolling with this. Yeah. I think the challenge is there is a little bit more of an attempt.

In fact, there is a character who is introduced in the movie who is the exposition machine who explains how he knows what's been transpiring to everyone. Whether that person is real or not is unclear to us. And that just throws everyone for a loop. It's like, so did you give us information about how this is all working?

Or did you just have the demon entity trick the person who is currently possessed to make them even more crazy? The lack of clarity on that, I found just more like a little bit frustrating rather than clever. And I think it wants to be clever. I agree with you though about the final five minutes of the movie, which I think is very bold and funny.

And I got to tip my cap to that as well. Let me workshop a theory I got for you. When you're introduced to a character, like you are the two protagonists of the Smile films, but I would even broadly say this is a trend that's been happening. I loosely in my head think of this as like St. Maude Corps or like something around like the A24 influence on horror films, where the character themselves is already in such a dark place that the introduction of horror just makes that place worse it actually

at a certain point doesn't have the same impact as horror happening to people in a completely unsuspecting moment now obviously trauma and horror go hand in hand it's always been this way but when you think back to the great horror characters often me, their life is being upset, not made marginally worse by the fact that now the darkness inside of them has been manifested as some kind of demon

or haunted house or whatever. It's more like the Texas Chainsaw Kids who were just on the road and then, fuck, look what happens. It was a previously happy circumstance

that gets destroyed. The family moves into a house. They had no idea and then this happens you know what i mean like there's something random and terrifying the strangers is a great example of this like where i like it when it feels like you weren't selected because you're going through something you're selected because we selected you and also the horror feels like a huge tonal shift to what this person's life is rather than I'm already

walking through a lonely ghost scape in my own life and now horror has made it 17% worse if Sky Riley starts this place as I'm just Jack Rohn

yeah like I'm just I wouldn't use her as an example. I'm just the biggest pop star in the world. If she's Dua Lipa. Have you guys ever had fucking pickle juice and a diet coke? I don't know if you've seen that. If she's just loving life

and then this happens, that's crazy. It also makes it much harder to convince people that this is happening because if Dua Lipa all of a sudden one day woke up and was like, I've cut all my hair off and all this stuff, you'd be like, whoa, is that going to Dua Lipa? Yes, it would be more shocking. But I think that it speaks to the complaint that we've had

over the last couple of years about trauma core. This movie is essential to these movies. Yes, well, it's like the whole thing is that the demon has latched onto her guilt about this accident. Exactly, and is leveraging it. There's a couple of amazing sequences. It's like the whole thing is that the demon has latched on to her guilt about this accident. Exactly. And is leveraging it. There's a couple of amazing sequences. There's a sequence with her backup dancers.

Awesome. That is so cool. There's some of her visualizations, manifestations of her fear are really, really cool. But it just doesn't add up to anything. The movie ends in a very similar way to the first film. We don't really learn any more and I don't need more lore, but I think I need like an elevation of the concept and I don't really feel like I got it.

So I think I'm a little bit on the outside of other people with this one. The first movie was huge. It's this new film is getting good reviews, but a lot of the time while I was watching it, I was just like, I wish this was over. I will say for the, for the sake of being a little bit more positive about it, because I've been thinking about it, I need this film to

do really well so that there's a smile three and we find out what happens because it ends in a much different place where it could change the story. It's a really good idea for a smile three. I just don't know if it'll go there with it. Well, so Parker Finn, it was announced, and I don't know how real this is because it felt like a prank, but it was announced that he is embarking on a remake of Zaloski's Possession. Possession

is a movie that is somewhat similar to Smile, to be honest with you. It is made in a completely different register, but it's a movie about a kind of manic hysteria

that encroaches upon one person played by Isabel Johnny, and it blows up one of these happy situations that we're talking about. Like, in the movie, Sam Neill and Isabel Johnny are in this marriage.

She wants to end the marriage. He doesn't want to end the marriage. It's clear that she's got something else going on. Is she being unfaithful or we're not totally clear. And it's this hysterical chamber drama that turns into something completely crazy and unexpected. And it arrives fairly late in the film. And when you find out what it is, you're like, what what and who in god's name could have ever thought of this idea but it is a

true horror idea one if you're just gonna make that movie again i don't know why you would i don't i don't know what the it's just such a beautiful portrayal of being in a difficult time in a relationship that could end that it doesn't need to be remade for any meaningful reason if he's gonna bring some of his craft to it and make it a little bit more outsized i guess that's interesting but it also means that like one he's staying in this genre two he's not doing smile three right away presumably and three he is even more art house maybe than i'd expect possessions become like a really hot movie in the last 15 years but uh i don't know.

I'm torn because I can see that he's really talented. And I wish these movies are better because they're like the most popular new horror franchise in 10 years. I think that I would describe myself as bored often in this second film. But there were parts of it where I was like, keep doing this. Like the Dylan Goella character. She's very funny in this second film, but there were parts of it where I was like, keep doing this. Like the Dylan Goella character. She's very funny in this, yeah. Just even getting Rosemary DeWitt to be in it

and do her thing was like, I was like, keep getting them checks. I was like, man, Rosemary DeWitt is just in her mom phase. I was kind of sad about that.

I always loved her. She's good in the movie. Yeah, she's a stage mom, basically. So there was like, I was like, there were breadcrumbs leading to like a loosening up

of this being like you will experience two hours of this person's breakdown and then they'll die you know I often thought you know I was listening

to you and Bill in the rewatchables about Blair Witch and you know all that focus on is it Heather yeah Heather and you know

that famous shot up her nostrils and the snot coming down there's like five moments like that that Naomi Scott has to endure in this movie pull Pull her hair out.

Yeah, it's very, very intense and visceral, but honestly, a little unpleasant. Anyway, Smile 2, I think this is going to be a very big film. I think people are going to like it. Yeah. Salem's Lot. Did you watch this?

I did, man. So we're moving into the streaming territory of our discussion. It's always a gold rush right around now, but sometimes this gold is actually painted discussion. It's always a gold rush right around now. But sometimes this gold is actually painted copper. It's fools. There's something fools about Salem's Lot. This movie's been in production slash post-production for a very long time.

Yeah. It is now on Max. It's written and directed by Gary Dauberman, who's done a lot of work in the Conjuring universe. He directed, I thought, a very good Annabelle sequel. Yeah. That I liked quite a bit. This movie is based on

Stephen King's 1975 classic. I would say is maybe my second favorite Stephen King novel. Pretty high up there. And it had a miniseries treatment in the 80s that is beloved.

79. Toby Hooper. Toby Hooper's two-part, four-hour Salem's Lot movie. James Mason. Which is very good with James Mason. And there was also a 2004 mini series

that I never saw I don't know if you ever saw that one I have not you know this is a classic there's a vampire in your town there's a vampire

in your main town movie yeah it's very much in the vein of the northeastern anxieties and the secrets that people keep

in Stephen King novels this new film stars Lewis Pullman Mack Mackenzie Lee, Alfre Woodard, Bill Camp, Pilo Asbeck from Game of Thrones. Pretty cool cast. It's about an author who comes back to his childhood home. He's in search of inspiration for his next book.

He finds out, lo and behold, there's vampires in his town. And then what happens? I thought this was terrible. I don't know what to say. I thought it was really meandering, oddly p paced seemed like it had been sliced and diced and was shot with that streaming tint yeah it just doesn't look like a real movie yeah and it's also inexplicably a period piece so the streaming tint thing seems very much like a hall of presidents disney world kind of feel it makes all the production design look like they just opened everything up

out of the box and it's all brand new. Yeah. Uh, what a bummer. Yeah. Uh, Gary Dauberman, I believe has talked about having,

he had like a three and a half hour cut of this movie and you know, I'm a big release the Dauberman cut guide, but this should have just been a mini series. It should have. This is a big novel and a big story. Yeah. I, I think,

I think there could have been a little bit more creative liberty taken with this. I don't really want to get into how iPhones would change Salem's lot, but I think it could have been a contemporary retelling of this tale. There's also threads that are just abandoned. It'll start, obviously, going in the direction

of what you would do if you were doing a four episode limited series of this show and then just drops it whole characters where I'm like so what happened to that character real

fucking shame too because this is pretty talented cast yeah Bill Camp's really good in it yes Liz Pullman is gonna be pretty big deal but it's just like I don't understand that

you guys are gonna put this on streaming like why not let him just put do the three and a half hour version of this and put it out in two parts I couldn't agree with you more it actually to put this on streaming. Like, why not let them just put, do the three and a half hour version of this and put it out in two parts? I couldn't agree with you more.

It actually makes no sense to try and make this a more digestible mainstream. It's the same issue you're pointing out about the PG-13ification. Make a rip-roaring, gnarly, long, expansive version of this. I felt the same way about Dr. Sleep. Dr. Sleep came out. I was kind of mixed on it.

It was immediately like there's a Mike Flanagan cut. And as soon as the cut, the Flanagan comes out, it was like, well, this is a much better version of this movie. It retains what's good about the first film, but expands on what was work, what otherwise was unexplained.

And once again, it's Stephen King. And you've got this great prompt here. Yeah. About King. Now, King, I guess, is kind of back.

He is. And he's, he's actually been here full on since It, the blockbuster It. So that's six years? Yeah. And obviously with King, I'm sure there are rights issues with various novels

and adaptations being owned by various studios. So it would be impossible, for instance, to have a a kevin feige figure of stephen king where there's gonna be that's a good idea this uniform kind of shared king universe we're gonna have a shared aesthetic i like that i'm gonna pick and choose how we're gonna roll these out like the books themselves the pleasure of them is that they're kind of all around castle rock or whatever or dairy but like they're gonna be uh they're going to be you can read them standalone, you can read them somewhat connected. Well, there was the Hulu series that attempted to do that.

And they've got a Mac series coming next year called Welcome to Derry that's going to attempt to be sidecar around it, I think. So Pennywise adjacent stuff. I don't know. I love Stephen King stories, but I think that my taste for Stephen King is more in the maximum overdrive kind of trash cinema than it is prestigious, really refined, high-end adaptations of his stuff, Shawshank Accepted. Pet Sematary there was two of those Firestarter uh the Dark Tower the Stand

the Children of Khorne which I guess they made like three of those I didn't even know that um and then we have a bunch coming Oz Perkins all the ones you just named

I didn't care for yeah yeah and I feel like the Pet Sematary with Amy Simons had like its moments it has its moments

yeah um Boogeyman has its moments yeah but like these have just not been done very well and I have just not been done very well and i especially have not been done with an eye towards like what could we do with all this

material that would make it maybe feel vaguely cohesive you know yeah i think a lot of his themes are still really resonant too and i wonder if the some of the struggles to modernize these stories which you're suggesting they could have done for salem's lot is of the problem. Sure. You know, like the Firestarter remake, which is just completely bungled. And the original is no great shakes. It's okay. It's, you know, it's enjoyed as a cult classic.

But the first Pet Sematary is a great movie. And I don't know if it was understood that way at the time, but it's a movie that like fully got the themes that he was after

and added something to it. And... Christine's great. Christine is very good. Not great. Obviously, The Shining is legendary. Like there have been

incredible adaptations of his work. But I feel like there's something very 1978 about a lot of his stories and it's been hard for people.

Really only Flanagan to me is the only person who's really been able to get his arms around the contemporary world. I would argue Mike Flanagan would be a great Kevin Feige of the Stephen King world. You've got, as we know, The Life

of Chuck is a Stephen King story, really more in the Shawshank vein than in the true horror vein, but gosh, that must have been suggested to him at some point, right? I just think that the rights issues are probably, like, I would imagine that they're just all, and Warner's obviously owns a bunch of this and I guess owns

Derry as an idea you know because they've now done these two series about it or have at least got the second one coming I do think that probably you're either stuck between these two poles where we either you either should do like a wildly creative

crazy take on Stephen King or you should do a page for page mini series adaptation of it but trying to take Salem's Lot and make it into a two-hour film that you're not going to put in theaters is kind of silly yeah you pointed out here that there's there is three pretty big things coming the Oz Perkins movie trailer just dropped to that which is the monkey is monkey shines right and And the Edgar Wright and Glenn Powell running man,

which is actually happening. Yeah. I'll be surprised if that doesn't work. If that's not good. Yeah. I'll be very surprised. I think Stephen King

and Edgar Wright are a good fit. But I would imagine Edgar Wright is going to apply that idea to our contemporary reality TV

viral famed. Yeah. I'll share with you the unkind thing I said about Smile 2 after we saw it, which is it felt like Edgar Wright trying to make a Kubrick movie, which sounds like it could be cool, but has some potential struggles.

I will see anything that is based on a Stephen King story, even if I haven't read it at this point, and I haven't read any of his stuff in the last 20 years. Would you want to see Damien Leone's Stephen King story? What would you want him read it at this point and I haven't read any of his stuff in the last 20 years. Would you want to see Damien Leone's Stephen King story? What would you want him to adapt?

Oh, that's a good thing. A good question. Needful Things. That could be interesting. I love that movie. I mean, there's a bunch of stuff that we haven't mentioned that has been adapted previously,

like Misery, obviously. Misery could be interesting. There's an axe-wielding killer in that movie. What else? I don't know. Damien Leone with the trucks, Maximum Overdrive would be pretty cool.

You want to see Maximum Overdrive? Yeah, I think there's also plenty of stories in Skeleton Crew and stuff like that that could still be mine too. Gore is not at the forefront of the Stephen King experience. Exactly, it's fear. So Damien Leone,

I think you should just keep doing what he's doing. Stick with art. Stick with the guy who brought you to prom how many art movies do you think there will be by the time we die I was just joking about this

I think that six I think we'll get to six I think we'll get past that I think we'll blow past that I think we'll get I think if we're talking like Amityville Horror Style

like there's 14 of these do you think he's gonna direct everyone do you think he's gonna find a protege and do you think he's accepting applications would you do it would you direct art in a protege and do you think he's accepting applications? Would you do it?

Would you direct art in a film? CR and Fennies version of Terrifier. Is that how you want to be credited? In the horror community? Yeah.

Nothing says horror like CR and Fennity. Okay. VHS Beyond. Yeah. It's become an annual tradition to talk about the new VHS movie

on this show. The current one VHS Beyond is streaming on Shudder right now. If you're not subscribed to Shudder, I don't know what you're doing. Don't know. Shudder's still great. It's been great for a decade now. Honestly, they tried to take Shudder down and it's still ticking.

It can't be beat. A lot of people came and tried to take their material and put it on their streaming service and Shudder's those fucking up the game. I mean, they still have the best library of pure horror. Yeah. 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s. It's some things fluctuate and move in and out of the rights ownership.

But the VHS series is one of the most consistent and enjoyable things happening in horror. I think every edition we can quibble with, this one leans more science fiction. It features the introduction of a few first-time directors. Justin Long, among them, with I guess his brother, Christian Long,

has one of the entries here. And Kate Siegel directed one that's written by her partner, Mike Flanagan. Exactly. That's her directorial debut. My friend, Jay Cheal, who made the Cursed film series, directed the wraparound sequence in this film. The abduction-adduction

sequence which is sort of about like the existence of UFOs and conspiracy culture and there is always like a kind of wraparound sequence in these movies. Jay is more of a documentary filmmaker so that's why it has that style. And what did you think of VHS Beyond? I thought it was like very thematically coherent

but one thing I really wanted to chat with you about is the insurgency into horror of using other forms as like to beckon people in. So the first true short in VHS Beyond is essentially like playing Resident Evil. Yes. It is a video game. Truly.

There is a lot of like, a lot of the acting in several of these segments reminds me of watching people on YouTube doing like, hey, check out this six stone I'm about to pull.

Like that kind of stuff happens a lot. And a little bit of like, obviously in the wraparound, like true crime podcasting and true crime documentary filmmaking. So it's very interesting to me to

see a lot of this stuff, which I guess we've probably picked up starting with Host and Unfriended and the idea of using the computer as the portal that we're going to have the horror take place in, to see all this extra cinematic influence on this genre, which I think it's particularly susceptible to, but I was curious if you had picked up on that as well well I mean the origin of the series itself is more like

we found a VHS tape in someone's basement you won't believe the crazy shit that we see and it's moved it kind of necessarily has moved beyond that it still is using

for the most part the found footage ideology yeah I think in the beginning beyond they're like we found these two tapes that prove UFOs exist right

and frankly every film is perspective drawn mhm ideology beyond they're like we found these two tapes that prove you ufos exist right yeah um and frankly every film is perspective drawn and i think the performances are always pretty hit or miss in these movies in general i think it's i think there are a few moments in the film where it is straining to retain its horror bona fides by just having a wild kill in a sequence that otherwise maybe shouldn't have had a wild kill. I thought Dream Girl in particular was kind of fascinating. This was the Virat Pal kind of Bollywood send up about a kind of like lionized Bollywood performer, beautiful woman who is, spoiler alert, secretly like an AI robot. Yeah. Like a Terminator.

And loses the plot and begins killing everyone. I think that that would have been a maybe more interesting movie if that robot didn't start killing everyone. To kind of figure out, like, what is really the nature of creativity and what is, like, what are these industries? Like, what is Bollywood really looking for long term? That's a cool idea. Yeah. It didn't need to be, like laser at lasers out of its eyes to make that idea work so i guess would it have been better if it was a little more like arthur clark than uh you know toby hooper yeah possibly my favorite one is also the one that's probably like it pulls the

string on this the most which was the uh the skydiving one live and let die yes by justin martinez so the premise is basically like a guy has a surprise birthday trip up into the air to do skydiving with his buddies and he's wearing like a gopro and while they're up in the air a ufo appears and like f-16 start attacking the UFO and the aliens like escape from the UFO so when they parachute to the ground they have to fight their way out of an orange grove being invaded

by aliens which is pretty sick but also kind of betrays the idea that UFOs are just hidden out of sight because F-16s attacking UFOs in broad daylight would probably warrant some kind of media attention. That would be the point of the entire film

if that had happened. I think it's one of the shortest, if not the shortest of all the films inside of this film. And I think it's because the minute you try to sustain an idea around it, it falls apart. But it's so viscerally made.

You're so inside of it. It's like, this is pretty good. I don't know how much this costs, but this is pretty awesome. I agree. It looks amazing. I also, like, I can't tell if I'm watching, like, somebody giving an AI prompt

to be like, now I want the alien to throw a truck. I don't know. I mean, I hope not. I hope not too, but like that might be where special effects are going. It's possible.

The special effects across the board in this movie are pretty good considering, you know, these are It's possible. The special effects across the board in this movie are pretty good considering, you know, these are lower budget films. The K-Segal one has like really trippy kind of like,

and that kind of reminded me of some of the more experimental Skin and Meringue stuff that we've been watching. Yes. I'm glad you brought that up. I wanted to talk about that. I'm not sure if that segment

completely worked for me, whatever that means, but it was the boldest of anything in here and something that is trying to get to a more metaphysical space with what something that is trying to get to a more metaphysical space with what the story is trying to do

about a woman who discovers a kind of like regenerative alien life form and finds herself kind of in this experience of constantly being sort of like healed, but transformed while she is making contact. Yeah, it kind of reminded me of Jeffrey Vandermeer's novels, the Annihilation novels. That's right.

It is similar to that. But again, told very intimately in this perspective approach. And I thought that was a weird way to end it, but a pretty cool idea for something. And, you know,

a lot of these films have fairly bare-bones approaches to dialogue and storytelling, which is something that has in common with the next movie we'll talk about.

But I think this is like a cool collection and all different enough. You know, like Her Baby is the Justin Long movie. It's very Tusk. You can tell his experience on Tusk informed the making of this movie, which is more of like a comic interlude. And parts of Barbarian. Definitely parts of Barbarian, for sure. The sort of going into the basement feeling of that movie.

I thought Stork was pretty good, too, from a practical perspective. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a successful V too from a practical perspective. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a successful VHS if you're like, I wish I had seen a whole movie about this. Yeah. And I thought that about most of these. The Katie Stiegel one,

I thought was interesting because if you think about horror as like a musical genre and directors hearing some other album but instead seeing some other film trying to interpolate that into their vision. One of the biggest things that's happened over the last couple of years

has been the emergence of this experimental horror thing that's probably most epitomized by Skin and Meringue, but you could also say, I wish the TV glow has elements of this where this kind of more spiritual but also like let's like rub our eyes with our fists and then when all the like dust mites appear in our vision like that's the movie yeah you know like this kind of like horror as a state of mind and i thought it was interesting to see that kind of come into a more not mainstream film because vhs is hardly mainstream but i i like

the idea of the genre talking to itself and like there being like movements and these movements get subsumed by directors and then spit back out like you could make the argument that some of the stuff that's happening in smile is stuff that mike flanagan was doing in like ouija too few years before that so like oculus especially oculus, that's the one that reminded me of. So like, you can see influence play into influence play into influence. And I liked that

at the end of this, I was like, wow, this is like if Skinnamorink made an alien movie. It's a great point. It's a great point. And Skinnamorink,

which I don't think you enjoyed. I also just attributed Skinnamorink to Skinnamorink as if that was the filmmaker. Jim Skinnamorink. Yeah, that was the writer, director of the film. I think it was Kyle if that was the filmmaker. Jim Skinnamarink. Yeah. That was the writer director of the film.

I think it was Kyle Edward Ball was his name. Shall we talk about Azrael? Sure. This is a curious one. Directed by E.L. Katz who made a movie

many years ago that I wrote about for Grandland.com called Cheap Thrills starring the great character actor Pat Healy. And it's written by Simon Barrett

who has been a long time Adam Wingard collaborator. Yeah, I wrote your next. He did. I think he written by Simon Barrett, who has been a long-time Adam Wingard collaborator. Yeah, I wrote You're Next. He did. I think he has a writing credit on the most recent Godzilla X-Kong movie.

Salute to you, sir. Thank you, Simon, for your contributions. Samara Weaving, another resonant final girl in the culture right now. And this is sort of like

a post-apocalyptic movie about a world in which cult-like people have given up their voices. They've renounced their right to speak. Cut out their vocal cords, seemingly. And they are being pursued by these kind of undead creatures that feast on flesh. And the whole movie, is it entirely wordless?

I guess there's one character who speaks in the whole movie. Samara Weaving, the movie is almost entirely entirely wordless I guess there's one character who speaks in the whole movie Samara Weaving the movie is almost entirely trained on her 85 minutes long it's like a real it's like a grindhouse folk horror

movie yeah and what you think of this probably have just seen way too much Walking Dead to like view this with like clear eyes which is not a knock on the film or its originality um it's just more like this kind of like what if we're the real enemies you know

after after an apocalypse yeah uh kind of thing um but it did remind me of a very fun subgenre of horror which is like survivalist near future stuff Stakeland is a great example of this in recent memory that it's just it's a pretty it's a pretty cool experiment she's great

Samara Weaving is reliably awesome and really physical performance yeah running climbing trees

getting thrown around and a really great experiment of like like how do we communicate story but also like lore and and deep kind of background of what's going on no words that's fucking crazy so i don't i don't know like how far you can take a title card which is essentially the most

background information you get for most of the film but it was it was it was cool to me i i more impressive than fun yeah like but that's exactly right. But I do, I loved the ending. Loved the ending. And I won't spoil it for anyone who wants to check it out. This movie will be on Shudder on October 25th if you want to check it out. And it is very short. But just a great reveal of the ending

that I really enjoyed. Other stuff in the streaming pile. I saw a bunch of this stuff. I don't know if you've seen any of these movies, but I'm going to talk with you about a few of them house of spoils that's the ariana debose ariana debose plays a chef who is attempt who's leaving a high-end restaurant where i believe she's a sous chef to be head chef at this new exciting place arian moyad from succession is sort of like her benefactor kind of like the the money man who's helping her get it set up um did not think this movie was very successful and it's like exactly what you're

talking about where there's like an attempt to appeal to more people here and it's unfortunate because the filmmaking duo who made this great amazon prime movie blow the man down um in 2020 were behind this and i thought that this was like way more turgid and kind of like five years too late in a post-foodie world. Like The Men You Already Came Out and it's a movie

just about like hallucinations and visions and our own trauma and our own experiences and digging through our past. Didn't think it worked that well. Did you end up getting to Caddo late? I did.

Okay. Not really a horror movie. It's not a horror movie, but I would like to discuss it with you briefly. Sure. And the reason why, but I would like to discuss it with you briefly. Sure. And the reason why, and I feel like I've been

coming on the show recently and just been dumping on a lot of stuff, which is something I try not to do, but for the most part, I just did not understand this film.

Did you understand Caddo Lake? I pride myself on my ability to grasp timeline jumping stuff. I do as well. I watched 30 Hours of Dark, which is Caddo Lake in German with nuclear power.

So I think I got the broad strokes, but this was a very strange movie. Again, this is another one where I was like, what happened along the way? Dylan O'Brien and Eliza Scanlon are both very compelling performers. And I think I understand the pitch here,

but the execution was kind of lacking. I feel bad. I feel like we should be like recommending more stuff. Well, I'm doing this because I'm kind of making a point. And there's a couple of other movies. You know, the Cadillac movie

is a movie that, you know, features a pretty meaningful kind of time jump quality to it without giving anything away. And the way that it is explicated and then clarified is very poor in my opinion like quite poor and i i think if it had been made more clear maybe it would have just felt like a better movie to me but i think that there was something missing in the storytelling as well that never totally cohered it is produced by m night shamalan's

company and it has shamalanian style twists to it. But that movie, there's a movie coming out on Netflix called Don't Move on October 25th that I had a chance to see. House of Spoils. They feel like movies that were being made for theater release and getting dumped.

You know, just like Salem's Lot. These were movies that were meant to be movies that have like rising young stars and then the studio got a look at the cut and they were like let's put that on stream because it doesn't totally work and I'd like to get out of that phase if you're gonna make a streaming horror movie let's like put some definition around what that means does that mean you can take more chances does that mean you can be more daring does that mean you I don't know I'm sure. Like just because a movie is on streaming doesn't mean it needs to appeal to everyone.

I would love to, if anybody who works on these kinds of movies, you know, reaches out and gives us a little bit of background information about like, for instance, like for House of Spoils, was that made for Amazon? Was that independently financed? And Amazon said, we'll do this,

but it has to have x y and z done to it like to fit certain algorithmic needs for it I would be very curious to know about like some of this because there's movies that are made for streamers I get the impression it's what's inside was made to be a Netflix movie it was not it was not no it's what's inside was made independently by a person who had worked in marketing for Netflix over the years. But he made the movie independently

and took it to Sundance and then it got bought at Sundance for $17 million. So even though it... Like, that's a movie to me that if that movie played in movie theaters, it would be a completely

different experience. Now, it seems like it's been very successful on Netflix. I interviewed the director, Greg Jarden, on the show. I like that movie played in movie theaters, it would be a completely different experience. Now, it seems like it's been very successful on Netflix. I interviewed the director, Greg Jarden, on the show. I like that movie a lot. I think it's like really creative and has good ideas. But it's a movie meant to be watched with like a thousand people, not a movie meant to be watched by yourself,

not really paying attention. Here's the thing, counterpoint. It's also a movie that helps to go back 30 seconds. That is true. Now, that is an interesting point. The movie does make more sense. If you can go back and be like, what's the playing card she's looking at?

Or what photograph are they holding up? Or when did it tint to red? Like, it does help. Counterpoint to your counterpoint, if you don't have to work too hard to try to understand what just happened in that environment, you might just have that feeling of,

oh, shit. Yeah, I know. Which the movie gives you a few times. Like, Caddo Lake doesn't give you that. Caddo Lake doesn't give you, whoa, dude, you just blew my mind with this. shit. Yeah, I know. Which the movie gives you a few times. Like Caddo Lake doesn't give you that. Caddo Lake doesn't give you, whoa, dude, you just blew my mind with this. Yeah. Whereas, you know,

it's what's inside is designed to throw you. Yeah. And if you are able to kind of unpack the archaeology of the storytelling, maybe it won't hold up as well. I don't know. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah.

I don't know how to wash that because eventually every movie will come to streaming and it won't hold up as well. I don't know. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how to wash that because eventually every movie will come to streaming and it won't matter. But. I think we're, I think we might be at the very trail end

of the, the COVID sort of, let's get this chum off of the boat movies. Like, movies that have been, like,

kind of financed or made over the last couple years. I mean, like, Salem's Lot, for instance, I think they shot that in 21 or something like that of maybe all movies will be on max now like and we just won't ever put anything in the theater again it's just like i wonder whether or not 25 will be stronger because i think what probably you're hearing

is two people who love these kinds of movies so much and usually we have two or three to be like you guys holy fucking shit you know and really like as far as like the streaming i don't know outcome the wolves i thought was really effective not really a horror movie more of like a survival action movie yes from the same director who made backcountry the bear attack movie um and i liked oddity which is on shutter so let's talk about that one because i didn't have a chance to talk about it on the show. This is an Irish horror film. Huge boom in Irish horror movies, by the way, in the last few years. Damian McCarthy is the director. And this movie is on Shudder now, right? It did have a theatrical run. It is. Tell the people what it's about. It's kind of like, I think that there's like an emerging genre of folk horror or like these kinds of ideas of like, you know, historical totems that somehow influence horror of the current.

So it's basically about these sisters living in Ireland. One is blind and works in a kind of curios shop, like a sort of novelty curiosities shop. And the other is married to this uh and as an architect or a doctor he's a doctor at a asylum and um you know the sister dies so the sister who is um she's murdered the sister one sister is murdered and the blind sister a year later thinks she's sort of started to untangle the mystery around what happened to this woman a man has been sent away for it but she starts to believe otherwise and uh is basically going about getting her vengeance and justice in this very kind of like arcane way of using these these factotum these these items to like sort of bring these people to justice who have wronged her sister.

And it's a very effective, like what can we do inside of this house to make it seem as creepy and fucked up as possible? So I think that the story itself is fine and there are three or four scares that are amazing. Yeah. And again, like that to me, that's more than enough to recommend the movie. I think the movie was a little oversold to me ahead of time.

I think it played South by and people like, this is the breakout. This is the one which can happen from time to time. But McCarthy has a really good handle on dread. And this movie, I thought, delivered on the dread a few times. I liked it. To me, there's a big difference.

There's another movie on Shudder right now called Daddy's Head. I don't know if you had a chance to see that I didn't it's very similar to Oddity and it's about a family who the patriarch of the family has died

in a kind of like gruesome and tragic way and he what seems to be sort of like this apparitional representation of his physical form starts haunting

his young son and wife and another movie that has like crazy sound design and great sort of like creature design, for lack of a better word. And it's just a feeling of unease. Yeah.

It's really effective. These movies that are made for Shudder are made by people who are like obsessive horror filmmakers who have a deep well of knowledge and are applying maybe more like sophisticated and artful techniques as opposed to like

Caddo Lake. You know what I mean? Like that's, it's not, they're almost like two totally different worlds. And so it's hard to put them beside each other, but they're all streaming movies, right? And so we kind of have to understand them a little bit more differently than Smile 2, which has a $50 million budget and is expected to open huge. You know what I mean? So it's tricky.

Later this year, this is an incomplete list that we'll give for our favorites of the year so far but we still have heretic which i still haven't seen which is um the hugh grant religious horror that's coming in november from a24 and then nosferatu yeah where where's your head out with nosferatu i mean i can't fucking wait yeah i'm pumped do you think that's gonna be in the oscar race i think the unsettledness of the Oscar race plays in its favor because it does look like a

true Victorian period piece. Yeah. And so maybe there's some craft's love. You know, Jaron Blaschke did get nominated for Best

Cinematography for The Lighthouse. So it's not like the Academy knows who Robert Eggers is. I'm just, you know, they didn't honor the Northmen

the way we did no but I'll stand and salute him today thank you for your contributions Alexander Skarsgård Norse God yeah

you are I'm excited about it as well I can't wait to see it they haven't shown it to me they haven't even been like hey you want to do like a toe dip and just nothing nothing from the people at Focus

they don't know their audience I'm right here yeah let me let me proselytize. We're in hour two of being like, this one was all right. Say hello to Tim Selects,

Tim's everyday value menu. Enjoy the new spinach and feta savory egg pastry or our roasted red pepper and Swiss pinwheel starting at only $2.99 plus tax. Try one or try our full Tim Selects lineup. Terms apply. Prices may vary at participating restaurants in Canada. It's time for Tim's.

2025, here's what's coming. I made a list. Wolfman, Lee Whannell. That's Christopher Abbott. Christopher Abbott plays a Wolfman. I have a more Wolfman

discussion for you a little later in this episode. Saw XI. Did you see Saw X? Which one's the Chris Rock one? Nope, that was Spiral. That's Spiral. Then there was like

how Jigsaw got made as Saw 10. No, Saw 10 was Jigsaw gets cancer. That's what I'm thinking of. Yeah, and then he kills all the doctors, right? Yeah.

He goes to Mexico, right? He goes to Mexico for an experimental treatment but then they just rob him. Just like Jason Street. I think that's the second time I've made that joke on this podcast.

Did you? I don't remember that. That's really good. They just ripped off Jason Street. I think that's the second time I've made that joke on this podcast. Did you? I don't remember that. That's really good. They just ripped off Jason Street. I thought Saw 10 was good. I enjoyed it. Do you kind of think

Street, like they should have been like, yeah, he cured his paralysis. He's ready to go. I think that would have been getting slightly into

the supernatural if VHS Friday Night Lights started walking on both feet again. And Street's back. The guy Landry killed comes back. Shouldn't they justHS Friday Night Lights started walking on both feet again. Streets back. The guy Landry killed comes back. Shouldn't they just revive Friday Night Lights

with the cast and they're in their 30s? Wouldn't you watch that? Who's taking over the car dealership? Right. Buddies? Yeah.

Where's Chandler and Britton at these days? I don't know if you want to know what happens to Riggs in his 40s. I do. I do.

And he could use that job. Is the football element here? They're just like going to watch the games. Yeah. Is Street the OC? Or does Street get the job? The big job? Well, he was an agent.

So maybe he's working in NIL. What's Zach Guilford's? Saracen? I think Saracen is. He's the OC. Well, he wanted to be an artist, didn't he? Saracen's kind of like the Ben Johnson of West Texas football right

yeah who's the Sirianni are you willing to lose like five Plemons cameos just to have this happen because he's just shooting this every day for the next three years I mean he's

he's the only guy who's too big for this project right now Kyle Chandler's about to play Green Lantern for fuck's sake you have to have him though because you can't have the Friday Night Lights reboot without him.

It's just sauiceless. Where is he now in that world do you think? Because Landry, you know, Jesse Hoffman's just turned into like the coolest guy

in the universe in the last five years. I can't remember. What does Landry do at the end? Because Gilford leaves, Saracen leaves with Julie? That sounds right.

I think they go to Chicago. Okay. Where's Tyra? Man. Wherever, man. God bless her. God bless her. What's her name?

Adrienne Palicki? She's great. Very talented actress. The Conjuring Last Rites? Uh-huh. That's the last one. Is that what they say? Yeah.

And he's been talking about what it means to end this story. I will always watch a Conjuring movie. Me too. Megan 2.0. I'm excited. Sure. Brian Jordan Alvarez back again.

That's right. I forgot he was a part of that. Yeah. That's so funny. Five Nights at Freddy's 2. I thought the first one was not good. So I'm not excited about this, even though- How much did the first one make?

Like $180 million. Awesome. It's crazy. It was kind of the smile of that year. It was the first time we'd seen that story on the big screen. People got excited. I didn't really get it. Two for two on those. What'll be the smile of that year. It was the first time we'd seen that story on the big screen. People got excited. I didn't really get it. Two for two on those.

What will be the version of that this year? I'm not sure if one exists. Black Phone 2. Wait, somebody cool is doing Resident Evil. You were a real Resident Evil head. You were like, crack open a bank with beer, sit on the couch. Krager. Oh, is that real?

Rumor has it that Zach Krager has a new project on his to-do list and it's the Resident Evil reboot. Dude, Chris is in the trades, man. I fucking love this. You are so deep in

there. That's Fangoria.com. Let's go. Those are the only real trades to us. Yeah. Fuck Penske. We're talking about

Fangoria over here. Yes, Fangoria can know my location. Bloody Disgusting.com. Absolutely. Notifications on. You've accepted cookies for all Fangoria can know my location. Bloody Disgusting.com, absolutely. Notifications on. You've accepted cookies for all Fangoria content. Is Craig about to go to fucking Raccoon City?

I should just ask Craig. I'll ask him, see if he's doing it. Ask him on the pod. That's what Rogan would do. Zach, come on. Let's talk about it, bro. Let's talk about it. You're breaking news getting aggregated there.

I know. I know. Did you see that? Yeah, I did. I did. Honestly. I'm glad I live in a world where Elaine May news is aggregated.. I know. I know. Did you see that? Yeah, I did. I did. Honestly. I'm glad I live in a world where Elaine May news

is aggregated. It is cool. It is nice. That didn't even occur to me. Like, I guess we should be doing a better job with that, Bob. Where it's just like,

whoa, Sebastian Stan just dropped a little nugget there. Do you think Sebastian Stan would understand if you were like, turn the TikTok camera on? No. But honestly, by that point

in the interview, it was like the mics were off. We were just like, brother, when you're at this stage of your life, you got to make hard choices. And he was like, I feel you, man. We were crushing tape together. And then he was like, Elaine May is cool.

And I was like, he just works for the ringer now? He was just one of us. Yeah, that was great. He seems great. What other movies? There's a new Final Destination movie next year. Yeah. Can you get to They Follow? Compan year. Yeah. Can you get to

They Follow? Companion. Yeah. That's from Boulder Light. Same people that brought us Barbarian. Yes.

That trailer looked cool. It does look cool. They Follow. Is that actually happening? Because David Robert Mitchell has another

movie that's coming out first. I thought that you had it on the list so I thought it was inevitable. I don't know. June 25th. I don't know if it's coming in 25 with Anne Hathaway. I thought that you had it on the list so I thought it was like inevitable like this is June 25th. I don't know if it's coming in 25.

It is. He is directing it, right? Yeah, Mike is coming back. So, that, it feels maybe more like 26 to me. Okay. Apparently his next movie

is pretty crazy. Anne Hathaway's in it? Anne Hathaway. Is it a horror movie or is it like a... I think genre. But maybe not pure horror. Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein.

You hate GDT. Except for Nightmare Alley. Yeah, Nightmare Alley is a five-star masterpiece and otherwise I could care less about his films. It's like fish people and crimson houses. Would you like me to sing you some songs from Pinocchio? No. Okay.

The Bride, which is Maggie Gyllenhaal's Bride of Frankenstein movie. Yeah, looking forward to that. Starring my girl, Jessie Buckley. 28 fucking years later? That'll put a little bit of a sell-by date on your life when that happens, man. Let me tell you that. We've gotten older.

We've gotten older. Alex Garland has gotten older. Danny Boyle has gotten older. Yeah. Shot on an iPhone, apparently. Is that true? I read a Wired.com article about that. Look at you just on the web.

Yeah, I still do it. I still try to be informed when I come on this podcast. And apparently, Danny Boyle has been shooting with a really cool iPhone rig. And you've been managing hollywoodelsewhere.com recently, too. How's that been going? You're the ME of that site? No, I'm actually Pop Cream. That's great. I've been running discussing film that's my that's my twitter account uh i know what you did last summer reboot sure kind of miss those movies i kind of miss what are you waiting for but like shithouse 90s teens yeah yeah yeah the post scream wave i enjoyed that is that your is that your hewitt yeah what'd you think she's back are they gonna try and like sydney oh like a sequel it?

Yeah. They probably should. Yeah. I feel like, I don't know. Sarah Michelle Gellar, she's probably up for it. Freddie Prinze. They're still happily married. One of the great couples in Hollywood.

I love that for them. It's really beautiful. You mentioned The Monkey, the new Oz Perkins movie. I need to talk to you about Long Legs on this episode, actually. Okay. Because we haven't talked about it and it is probably the horror movie of the year so far. And I know you i think you were more mixed on it than i was a bit okay i also we get into we're gonna have some real like

what's a horror movie in a second yeah we are okay so presence is soderbergh's new movie seen that pretty soon i think by the way my guy this is his ghost story is that gonna be another two stevies in one year next year? Sure feels like it. Black Bag, I think, is dated for March. Yeah. So that's two Stevies in three months, which is very exciting. I'd really like to have him back on the show. Maybe that's something we can make happen.

And then Shelby Oaks. Are you up on this one? No. New neon movie from Chris Stuckman, the YouTube movie reviewer. For sure. And his directorial debut, which is a horror movie, which I think played at, was it Fantastic Fest or one of those? Fantastic Fest. Maybe Fantasia Fest, one of those Fantasia maybe Fantasia Fest

one of those two and got a warm response apparently. Do you think we would do well at Fantastic Fest? We just walked around? What do you mean by

do well? Like there's there's Fang's Fantasy and CR the Gimp you know like. Yeah I think we'd be warmly received. That's cool.

I think it's a challenge because it's usually immediately after Telluride so the idea of me telling Eileen hey I've got to do five days in the mountains, and then I have to go directly to Austin to go watch Terrifier 4. Watch CR have two camels. No, more like five Lone Stars and get embraced by all the boys in the street.

Let's talk about the best horror movies of the year. Now, I've made an executive decision to take one of mine off to talk about another movie so that we can make this a fully robust list I like your list thanks you're number five I simply have not seen the film nor have I heard of it

and once again I salute you I brought this up in passing when we either did in a I can't remember we did another horror episode earlier this year

and I think I might have mentioned this because you were like you really are watching tape you're in these streets I'm a ball this because you were like you really are watching tape you're in these streets I'm a ball knower

you are my number five is more of a nod to the totality of this series which is horror in the high desert this is the third one it's called fire watch and

it is a that's how they're describing this episode any moment now can fucking flare up it is a continuing... That's how they're describing this episode. Any moment now can fucking flare up. It is a continuing story about

a guy who gets lost in the first film in the high desert just adjacent to where we live in the Mojave area. And the story kind of iterates on that. Essentially, it's a found footage film. I would say that there are some very janky storytelling,

uh, contraptions in this movie. A lot of talking head interviews of true crime podcasters who are telling you the story, but then like the footage is just not necessarily like fill in all the blanks, but the actual scares and the, I would call relentless tempo of the found footage element was was very good um and this is kind of in the hell house llc vein of like films that have had horror reddit a buzz have like a solid uh community backing and like it's also just like

pretty good place to set a found footage horror movie is the high desert um these kind of are a little bit more mainstream scary than your skinner marinks or your outwaters which are the more recent kind of like almost experimental versions of found footage horror but i just thought i would throw it out there it's a it's an obscure title but i i liked. It's a great shout out. Where can I watch it? I believe it is free on Prime. I'm not positive.

Oh, exciting. My number five is called Blackout. I mentioned that I had not seen this movie when we did that episode in April around Abigail and that I was looking forward to it. And this is the new independent horror movie from Larry Fessenden, who's one of the dawns of

independent horror. And he's made a Frankenstein movie. He's made a Wolverine, Wolfman movie. This is his Wolfman movie. Oh, fuck yes.

Okay. Tell me about it. So, like all movies, it's a glass-high picks movie. It's very low budget. You gotta go in knowing that that it's gonna be

very handmade. But he's got a pretty awesome cast collected around this story about an artist in upstate new york who it does the thing that all wolfman movies do which is sort of like is he a wolfman is this a manifestation of his psyche or is he just an alcoholic yeah and is he just blacking out and not realizing what he's doing? But he's living in this small town and every full moon he transforms

and kills somebody and then there are these murders around town but someone in the community who is not a white person has been wrongly accused of these murders and so Fessenden

as he always does kind of wends in some of the social commentary with the movie. Then there's also the movie takes it has a very familiar framework through the first 45 minutes where you're like okay turning into a wolfman this would be tough you know like if you're living in a small town you

just broke up with his girlfriend he's trying to mend fences he's got a complicated relationship with his dead dad drinks too much has his beautiful charcoal drawings and then the movie takes this interesting turn where it was like, if you were Wolfman, what would you do? And this guy is like, I need assisted suicide. Like, I can't be left to my own devices anymore because I'm dangerous.

Maybe I'd play for the Knicks. That's true. If you look like Michael J. Fox, you might do that. But this guy who's played by Alex Hurd, who gives a great performance in the movie, tries to stop himself and it goes terribly wrong.

And this movie's free on Tubi right now. All right, I'm going to check it out. And I just thought it was really cool and like Wendigo and like Depraved

and like all of his movies. You know, he made a vampire movie. He's made all these great movies that are these one part character study, one part monster movie. And Fessenden's been

doing this forever. And they're all interesting. They're all good. They all bring something new to the table to these kinds of films. So I recommend it. My 2B algo right now has gotten so deep.

I've been finding it very soothing to fall asleep to spaghetti Westerns. So my 2B algorithm is just like the far reaches of spaghetti Westerns because they've got all of them. And it's all like at the bottom of a coffin with a stick of dynamite,

my friend, you know. It's Klaus Kitzke. So I haven't been served this on Tubi, but I can't wait. What's number four for you? Late Night with the Devil. We've talked about this a couple of times. I think that this film

was the first little Paul Revere being like, hey, these little fucking movies can make some money out here. You know, like people want to go see original horror films in the theaters. I get the impression this movie was not just a great success at the box office, but also on Shudder. People really, really dug this movie. Yeah. So for anybody who hasn't heard us discuss this,

we did it somewhat in depth earlier in the year, but it's essentially a faux found footage movie about a 1970s late night talk show that has a demon show up. So it's pretty cool. Paranormal entities. Yeah. And I think it's like probably only this low in my list because of how early it came out.

So, you know, a little bit of recency bias playing into some of my choices here. I thought it was excellent. I know some people are like,

well, but this work or without, like, how do they have footage of this, you know, if they're not using

these kinds of cameras? It does, it breaks form a couple of times, but David Dastmalchian is amazing in the movie. He's so great as the talk show host.

It also just felt really original. I don't know. It is. It is. It is. I think there's a British film what is the British film

that has a somewhat similar conceit where it's Ghostwatch which is also on Shudder right now which is like an 80s British TV movie about a British

television live television program exploring a haunted house that is a somewhat similar conceit and if you haven't seen it and you liked late night with the devil i highly recommend ghost watch there was also a charlie booker who does black mirror did a series just looking for it right now

dead set yes dead which is like a zombie outbreak on a big brother house uh my number four i will hold because it is also on your list a little later down but maybe i'll do my number three then please do because my number three is a split and i want to talk about whether or not these movies apply so i want to recognize long legs because long leg has been a divisive movie. It's a big hit. I think people have been a bit mixed on its logic and whether or not it lived up to the marketing. The marketing campaign for this movie was very aggressive. I have said on the show, and I stand by this thing, which is just, this is true for me.

It won't be true for very many people, but I saw the movie and I liked it. And I was curious enough about it that I wanted to talk to Oz Perkins, the writer and director of the movie, to talk about it. And after I spoke with him about it that I wanted to talk to Oz Perkins, the writer and director of the movie, to talk about it. And after I spoke with him about it... He illuminated it.

Yeah, the light bulb went on over my head about what this movie is and what it was scratching that I couldn't get to the bottom of. That won't be the case for everybody, but if you liked that movie or watched it and just wanted to hear more, I encourage you to go back

to listen to his conversation because he was incredibly candid, not just about his idea about the movie, which is this sort of post Silence of the Lambs, post-Seven meditation on serial killer movies starring Micah Monroe, probably our favorite final girl. But it is also a movie that is much more

ethereal and feels like living commentary about a kind of movie while also trying to tell the story of a killer and has supernatural elements and true crime elements. But he talked really candidly about his personal life. His father, who was Anthony Perkins, the actor, his mother, and what role she played in his upbringing and what he was told and what was kept from him as a kid. And which is a major theme of this movie. Quite.

What we share with our children and what we don't share. Yeah. And the movie just flashed for me. And so I really, really liked it. And I haven't seen it a second time since I had that conversation with him. And Chris, I'll tell you right now, I'm going to buy it on 4K.

I'm going to watch it again. And I'm not afraid to share that with you. Now, I say all this to say that I really admired Long Legs, especially a lot of the craft. And then I saw this movie called Red Rooms. Have you seen this yet? I haven't. Okay. So Red Rooms is a Canadian film. It's directed by Pascal Planta. And it's about a woman, a model living in Canada who becomes obsessed with a serial killer and his murder trial. And along the way, she encounters another woman

who is obsessed with this murder trial and this serial killer. And the ways in which their obsession plays out. If you haven't seen this movie, it is available for rent on VOD right now. It is remarkable. It is extremely well-crafted. It features an extraordinary performance

from Giulia Garoppi. Is it also seven core? Like, is it also like right on that line where you're like, is this thriller or horror? Because I think Long Legs is horror because of the presence of a supernatural evil. This is more of a thriller than it is horror. Or it is what an overexposure to true crime interest can do to the human mind, which is horrifying. So, you know,

it's a movie that I'm recommending in part because through the first hour and 25 minutes, I was like, what is this? Like, where is this going? What is this trying to accomplish?

And then it takes a couple of bold leaps in the final act. And I thought it was very, very impressive. Imperfect, but very impressive. And together, they represent this like um alpha and omega yeah of our serial killer obsession so that's my number those are my collective number threes what are your number

threes i'll take a left turn as well and bring up a film we talked about um maybe in a more mixed fashion than i will right now because as a horror film, I think Alien Romulus is incredible. Agreed. Fede Alvarez is one of the best horror filmmakers alive. I think that if you just take the scares and the kills and the thrills of this film, it's quite awesome. Yes.

How it works within the Alien timeline and the mythology of Alien and its use of past you know future alien storylines like that could your mileage may vary and the whole like why did you go up there or kind of stuff like about it fine but as

a haunted house movie where crazy shit is running after you and then the kills are like something burst through your chest or some acid leaks onto your body. And there's water. There's whatever. Like awesome, awesome, awesome stuff.

And the end is as horrifying as anything you'll see in a movie theater this year. I'm with you 100%. It's a solid alien movie. It's a very fun horror movie. And no surprise. Do you think Alvarez will do another alien movie? I don't think this made enough money. It did pretty well.

Did it? Yeah it made like 250 million worldwide something like that. I don't know okay so like game this out if Gladiator 2

is a fucking like movie of the year like it made 350 million 600 million dollars you know uh huh do you think Ridley is like,

I mean, it's so crazy to talk about because this guy is so old and is still cranking out so many films. And he's already started talking about Gladiator 3. But Fede Alvarez has been like,

Ridley and I have talked about perhaps joining the Prometheus Covenant parts of his ideas with like this story somehow. So I don't I would love to see another Alien movie

by Fede Alvarez. Ridley Scott's like continuing involvement what the Noah Hawley show will do I don't know. It's an interesting question. I'm looking at the

worldwide box office history for the Alien franchise. Number one is Prometheus with 400 million which I think was considered something of a disappointment

but it still did well. Look what they took from us. I know. Well that's a whole other conversation. And then number two is Romulus, $350 million. Number three is Alien Covenant,

$240 million. Do you think Romulus did so well because it was like, this is just fucking scary? You don't have to... It plays everywhere. It made $250 million around the world because it plays everywhere.

I mean, they have an iconic creature and the innovation of that movie was what if 21-year-olds? What if 19-year-olds? They never really made an alien movie that was quite like that before. You know, for kids. I like this movie a lot, too. I know that people had a lot of quibbles with it, and some of the, you know, IP-ification, legacy sequel stuff didn't work for people, but it was a good time at the movies. Yeah, man. Scare for Scare, it was really good. My number two is The Substance. Do you see this?

I didn't. I'm not a big body horror guy. I know you're not. I know you're not. I think it would be hard. What's my body horror? What's yours? Like, what don't you,

what are you like, I could do without that? Oh, good question. Oh, Insects. Oh, Insects. Yeah, I can't do it. I mean, we talked about The Infested, right?

Yeah, Infested earlier this year, which is tough. Like, I didn't watch, I I mean, we talked about infested earlier this year, which is tough. I didn't watch, I still haven't seen Sting, which is another spider movie. But this is not across the board like you don't like animals horror. You just don't like bugs. Animal attacks I like. Bugs I don't like.

Even Arachnophobia, the Frank Marshall movie, kind of freaks me out. i really don't like spiders i don't like bugs is your house entombed by spider webs yet like all houses in la orb weavers yeah there's a major orb weaver over my car i was taking my daughter to school this morning and she was like dad watch out for that spider and i was like don't worry i know exactly where it is and you will not be going near it I think that that's my body horror

body horror I love I love body horror I talked about it at length I talked at Amanda about it at length on the pod yeah this is a divisive film online

so I've heard I understand why it's divisive I think there are a few things that Coralie Farcia does in the movie particularly consistently repeating her point that seems to be bothering people why it's divisive. I think there are a few things that Coralie Farge does in the movie, particularly consistently repeating her point

that seems to be bothering people. It is unafraid to show you the same imagery over and over and over again to bludgeon you with her point.

I'm not here to litigate feminism. I'm not really interested in that. Turned the TikTok kid wrong. Which side do you come down on, Chris?

Does it represent your feminism? Do you think women should have rights? I think that Demi Moore should. She's amazing in this movie.

So just for her and Margot Qualley and what they accomplished in this movie, this is one of the best horror movies of the year without question for me. Yeah.

I could not believe the lengths that it went to in the final 45 minutes. I was laughing, hooting, and hollering in my seat is its gender politics as profound as somebody on twitter wants it to be i don't i don't

care like i had a lot of fun watching the movie i thought it was very very well executed it's like a few of the movies we talked about here too just amazing practical effects and this is work that i think is like largely overlooked in this digital era of moviemaking, especially in horror. I hate digital effects in horror movies. So I loved the swing of this movie and the sense of humor that it had. And I thought to me more in particular is extraordinary. So the substance. Number two for you. Strange Darling. Have we even said any words to each other about this movie yet? Yes. Haven't we?

I think we texted with Bill, who I know also liked it. I think that's it. Fucking awesome movie. Really cool. Yeah. Honestly, my top two are two that I think I walked out of and was like, this is the consequence of watching too many horror movies, and this is the consequence of just being 46 and doing shit like this is i immediately started like kind of picking at it uh-huh that my top two are the movies that have stuck with me the longest that have haunted me that have me i've

thought about the imagery i've thought about the music i've thought about the performances strange darling is awesome it it might be too thriller there's nothing supernatural about it um i think if it was told basically in a linear fashion, it would essentially play like a slasher movie with a twist. But it felt more horror than any other genre to me.

And I think some of the storyline like the Ed Begley Barbara Hershey element almost feels like fantastical like it's in a Barbara Hershey element almost feels like fantastical like it's in a horror film. It almost feels like a children's story or something.

I love the close-up images of the breakfast that they're making in that sequence. It's such a great little detail. And that's an example of something where I was just like, what a great idea.

What a great idea is to just show this nourishing, we've reached the end of our time and we can do whatever we want kind of moment. Literally, I think what you and I are eyeing in our life. Yeah, it's like, when can I put a whole stick just like nourishing. We've reached the end of our time and we can do whatever we want. Kind of like... Literally, I think what you and I are eyeing in our life.

Yeah, it's like, when can I put a whole stick of butter in an egg? I just thought this was such a thrill and a lot of the stuff that JT Mulder and Giovanni Ribisi brought visually reminded me of

Toby Hooper stuff from the 70s and 80s combined with the kind of Quentin Tarantino narrative chop-up method that we were kind of raised on. I think if you, it's another movie that if you pull at the string too hard and start getting into like cinema sins, here's why this isn't as smart as it thinks it is stuff, you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I didn't think this movie was like it's I'm so smart yeah well how far into the quote unquote twist did you go before you're like

I know what's happening here I think in the seduction like in the first 35 minutes in the seduction

I was just like also just like my brain was like it would be weird that everybody was like you have to see this without knowing anything about it and the movie was kyle gallner attacks this woman yes yes um and i think that the actual like the opening opening scene of this movie is phenomenal

because of that yes because to take the kyle gallner character from what we see in the beginning and bring it all the way back around and then also flip it a little bit again at the end is so great. I totally agree. I think this movie is very, very cool and very exciting. And another example of like an indie movie that, you know, it didn't do like gangbusters at the box office, but it made noise. And I don't know where it's going to stream. I'm sure it will stream somewhere. I think a lot of people are just going to discover it on streaming. And to your point, shot on film looks beautiful. You know, it beats its chest about, shot on film looks beautiful. Awesome. It beats its chest about being shot on film, but why not?

Yeah, it's available for VOD, but it's not available. Yeah, and I don't know what its streaming home will eventually be, but we'll see. Great pick. I saw you put it on your list. I was like, why didn't I think of that? But I'm glad that you shouted it out. My number one is The First Omen, which is weirdly, I think, is in my top 10 right now of the year. This is Arkasha Stevenson's directorial debut.

It is a leg of prequel to the original Omen film. And everything that's in the movie that is about the Omen, the original film, I didn't really care about. I wasn't really super interested in. Everything in the movie that was about Stevenson's portrayal of women's bodies and the encroaching control from the church and the country and men and all those other things.

All that stuff was the non-prescriptive, non-finger-wagging version that I'm looking for. It was larded with ideas, super gory and gross and beautiful at the same time. So sustained and artistic. It's everything that I want from a movie like this.

Great nun year. Shout out to Immaculate as well. That's right. This movie is basically about the madness of faith like if you'd say you know the idea of of especially like the catholic religion is to have this relationship with god to hopefully hear god in your head if that's happening you're are you not hearing voices like in that this woman who thinks that she's been saved by the church but has essentially been picked by the church to bear this unbearable thing.

It's an awesome, awesome movie. I agree. The redoing, the omen at the end of it is kind of like Phil's staple. It's very deflating after this extraordinary movie that makes all these bold choices. Yeah, and I would love to know whether or not, like if Arkasha Stevenson was like,

I just want to make a fucking crazy Polanski movie set in a church in Italy in the 60s or 70s or whatever, like would they let her without it being part, like does it have to have some sort of on-ramp to? It's a good question. I mean, this movie was considered a bit of a disappointment at the box office this year, which I think is interesting

because I don't know if anyone was clamoring for more Omen content, you know? It's not like, you know, there were four Omen movies,oring for more Omen content. You know, it's like, you know, there were four Omen movies, I guess five Omen movies. Damien Omen. Yeah.

Damien Omen 2, Damien Omen 3, Damien Omen 4. And, and then there was a remake maybe like 15 years ago. Was it Liev Schreiber in the remake?

Yes. And then that movie didn't really do like a ton of business. So the idea that like, oh God, they really fumbled the bag with the first omen. We got this hot omen IP burning a hole in our pocket. It's all a little silly, but I loved this movie.

And I think people should check it out. It's on Hulu right now. What's your number one? In a Violent Nature. So this is my number four. This is the movie, the horror movie I thought about the most. This is the end cap to our Terrifier 3 conversation it absolutely is

and in some ways In a Violent Nature is a little bit of like the pavement fans Terrifier do you know what I mean it's like

do you think you're a little too good for Terrifier so then you watch In a Violent Nature and it has much longer subjectivity tracking shots so I'm

I'm I'm turning the mirror inward here. But aside from this, truly extraordinary kills in this film. The one at the edge of the cliff is on another level. Even in the year of Terrorfire 3, it's on another level.

Truly, actually, well-done, non-kill horror sequences are hidden in this film. And when I say hidden, it's because the film is largely told pretty much exclusively from the perspective of the killer with one, one sequence that is not, but there is a like teens at the campfire fucking around scene.

That's just like better written than it needs to be. Agreed. A lot of the times what I kind of like long for is just like someone to polish the dialogue or something in these movies because they can

just be so like yeah did you did ChatGPT shoot out like what you need to say before the killer jumps

out of the closet here? This is not that. This is actually just really well done. It's an incredible sense of place and not only features just like a very demanding kind of like filmmaking discipline where it's an incredible sense of place and uh not only features just like a very demanding

kind of like filmmaking discipline where it's just these incredibly long tracking shots of this killer stalking through the forest so that you're essentially feeling the slow procession of death approaching these nameless faceless characters essentially but then the end is like truly thought-provoking i thought and uh just it's the one that's that's sort of stuck with me the most the most interesting discussion point i've had in an interview with a filmmaker this year is i tried to like get my feelings across to chris nash the director of the movie, about why I like this stuff. And I said to him... Am I okay? Yeah, like, what is it in you that makes you want to spend time in these worlds

to create these casts and these practical effects and to design these kills in this way? Like, do you ever think about what it means or why it's of interest to you? Because I think about it and I'm a little concerned for myself, but also I can't deny that I find it very fun. And he was like, I can't spend time thinking about that. If I spend time thinking about that,

it all falls apart. And I don't want to, basically I don't want to go there, which I thought was a fascinating answer. And Chris Nance is just like a very kind Canadian guy. And I was like, how did you, where did you,

how could you, like, I couldn't, I couldn't wrap my head around it. I'm like, you're way too where did you, how could you, like, I couldn't wrap my head around it. I'm like, you're way too normal in this conversation to have created this thing. But that's so often the case. You know, it's like if you watch interviews with Toby Hooper or Wes Craven or John Carpenter or all the people that we think of as the masters of the form, I had JT Malner here sitting across from me. I was like, what a cool guy.

She's had a nice hang. There was an earthquake during our interview. Totally fine. Didn't matter. I don't know. Maybe it takes a kind of normalcy to make the most fucked up thing. I think that there's something healthy about how unhealthy these movies are. Where it's like this is a probably, it's a good outlet for it. Not that we need an outlet for it. I mean it's not like I'm like

I secretly harbor like a desire to pull someone's head through their spine, you know, like. Yeah, it's either you watch these movies or you make these movies. No, but I think that it gets to the most pure version of cinema

that I can think of, which is it makes you feel something. And now, this might not be something that you feel when you watch a Colleen Hoover movie,

but it is something. Did you see that movie? No. But I'm following the saga. Yeah, the saga very closely. I

would enjoy if for our best movies of the year episode you gave that movie a look. Okay. Just to hear your thoughts. Okay. Because when I saw it

I thought I was taking crazy pills. Because you thought it was so good? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Definitely. No. Not because of that. Why don't you read your list of movies? Because some of the listeners have said we're not doing a good enough job enunciating the titles of the films. Yes. Okay. I'll do that. My number five film is Horror in the High Desert, part three, colon, Firewatch. That's available on VOD. I think it's

streaming on Amazon Prime. It's just a great title. Number four is Late Night with the Devil, which is definitely streaming for free on Shudder. If you have that or your AMC Plus subscription on Amazon, that's available now to watch. Alien Romulus, directed by Fetty Alvarez, the most recent Alien entry, and that is on VOD now. Correct.

And I think will be on Disney Plus at some point in the near future. Strange Darling, which is available on VOD now. Correct. And I think we'll be on Disney Plus at some point in the near future. Strange Darling, which is available on VOD, but it does not have a streaming for free home yet. That's awesome. And In a Violent Nature is on Shudder, right?

That's correct. My list is Blackout, the new Larry Fessenden movie, which is on Tubi right now. Number four is In a Violent Nature, which Chris just mentioned. Number three is a pair of films,

Red Rooms, which is available on VOD, and Long Legs. You love a double pick. I do love a double pick. I like to cheat. Number two is The Substance, which I don't believe is out of theaters yet. I think it's still in theaters. I pointed this out to- It is almost entirely on Twitter though. When you go to Twitter, full scenes are on. Yes, which is not a trend that I really like personally. But entirely on Twitter though. Like when you go to Twitter like full scenes are on. Yes. Which is not a trend that I really like personally. But I

here's one thing I want to one other thing I want to add which I think I don't know if I mentioned this on the pod or not Bob when we did this episode with Alex Ross Perry and next week we have

a very special Halloween episode with Alex Ross Perry the Slasher Movie Hall of Fame that we recorded when I was in New York. But significantly more people have listened to the Substance episode

than the Wol's episode of this show and frankly that's so exciting and i think that that also puts an end cap on this terrifier 3 conversation that we're having which is that you it is easier to super serve fans of something in a thoughtful way than it is to try to corral millions of millions of people with the most mainstream thing that has nothing really in the heart of it. Like a long espresso ad. Yes, exactly. So how exciting that people are discovering the substance. Do you think

wolves would have been better if Art the Clown was in it? If that's who those fixers were trying to help? Yeah, imagine if we just remade wolves and it was the... And it was Brad Pitt

being born by a demon? No, it was the um and it was brad pitt being born by a demon no it was the deep sea helmet killer the firefighter helmet killer from in a violent nature and art the clown teaming up to to to black bag an issue yeah would you watch that movie yeah okay my number one movie was the first omen it's on hulu right now um you feel good we just did incredible work today i usually leave that to you to evaluate our performance but I think that we delivered a lot of

a lot of content. We did the work too man. We fucking put we watched the tape. We got it. We do. You've got me thinking that we do have to go

to one of these horror movie festivals and see how you're received. Like will you be lifted up? No not me. Us. No I want you like in the full bear costume

from Midsommar you know. I want you to be burned at the stake. Like i want you like in the full bear costume from midsummer you know i want you to be burned at the stake like i want you to get the total treatment i feel like you deserve it you've earned it with a fucking fire watch that was that's a pull yeah that's you at your best thanks dog so thanks so much for what you do thanks to bobby wagner for his work on this episode he's our producer thanks to jack sanders how many movies of the week that we talked about have you seen? On the final list that you guys came up with, I have only seen

Alien Romulus, which I thought was a fantastic film. Excellent work. Had a great time. You would like Strange Darling. I think I would too. Yeah.

Yeah. But I didn't make it out to theaters and I think it's PVOD right now. So I'm going to check it out. I'll check it out. We definitely gave people

more than 30 films. Yeah. This is the work. Yeah. But we were also like, we spent like 30 minutes being like, Caddo Lake sucks.

You know what's great about this show is that in 72 to 96 hours, I'll just be back in this studio just rattling off what I think are the best picture power rankings.

The high and the low. Are you going straight down the barrel solo for that? Yeah. Fuck, dude. Yeah. It's really happening. Is that your dream? No, I just know that the barrel solo for that? Yeah. Fuck, dude. Yeah. It's really happening. Is that your dream?

No, I just know that the coward thing is coming for you. Not coward. Coward. Coward. The herd. When you're just like staring into a camera

and being like... Give us your best coward about the Best Picture race right now. I told you... No, I'm trying to think. Coward's inimitable to me. He's hard. Yeah.

He goes, now I will tell you that the thing to remember about Anora is it is about a sex worker. Now, in the history of the Academy, we know sex workers.

You know what movies aren't about sex workers? Sing Sing. We're also going to talk about Anora on this episode. We pre-recorded a conversation with Amanda. So her spirit will be back. Amanda's doing very well, by the way, for anybody who's curious out there.

Amanda and her beautiful family are thriving. And we miss her on the show, but she will be back sometime soon. And now she's got so many things to watch after this episode. I can't wait to hear her review of Oddity and Strange Darling. Thanks to the listeners of this show. We'll see you guys soon.