The Big Picture - The 15 Most Anticipated Movies at Sundance. Plus: Randy Newman! | The Big Picture

Episode Date: January 24, 2020

We've touched down in Park City, Utah, for the Sundance Film Festival and we're ready to watch some movies. Sean and Amanda break down what it means to be a Sundance movie, the evolving state of the festival, and a few of the films they've already seen, including a Taylor Swift documentary and a hair-centric horror movie from the director of 'Dear White People' (1:00). Then, they share their lists of the movies they're most excited to see, from documentaries with grave international consequences to a drama based on a "stripper saga" Twitter thread (19:12). Finally, Sean is joined by Randy Newman to discuss his Oscar-nominated work in 'Marriage Story' and 'Toy Story 4,' his showdown at the Academy Awards with his cousin Thomas Newman, and his long career as a songwriter, composer, and bastion of wit and wisdom (41:55). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Randy Newman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Big Picture brought to you by AT&T reminding you that when it comes to wireless networks, just okay is not okay. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the most anticipated movies of the Sundance Film Festival. Later in the show, I'll have an interview with one of my heroes, Randy Newman. I visited his home and we talked about his Oscar-nominated work in Marriage Story and Toy Story 4, his showdown at the Academy Awards with his cousin Thomas Newman, and his long career as a songwriter, composer, and bastion of wit and wisdom. But first, Amanda, we must discuss the film industry's big break before the Oscars.

We're here at Sundance. How are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm wonderful. How was your first Park City experience going so far? I'm enjoying it. You and I have taken a lot of buses. Yes, we are shuttle-centric these days. If you are in Sundance and you have any questions about the shuttle, Sean and I wrote a lot of them, and we didn't understand at first, but now we do, and we'd love to share.

Yes, surprising as it may be for those of you who listen to the show, We wrote a lot of them and we didn't understand it first, but now we do and we'd love to share. Yes. Surprising as it may be for those of you who listen to the show, this is our first Sundance Film Festival. And so it's been an education so far. We're having a great time. We've already seen a couple of movies. We're going to talk to you on this episode about a lot of the movies that we're looking forward to seeing.

Now, there's quite a vast and interesting slate here. Sundance, one of the most historic American film festivals, of course, with a broad range of kinds of movies. There's obviously the traditional, you know, dramatic features that we know about. There's a huge slate of documentaries. A lot of the Academy Award nominated docs from this year premiered at Sundance. There's Midnight Movies. There is World Documentaries. There are short films. There's some animated work here, Amanda. In your mind, what makes a Sundance movie? It is character-driven and perhaps quieter. Quieter is unfair, but it's not a giant big budget, obviously, action-adventure.

It is usually a coming-of-age story or a family story or something intimate, something honestly, all the movies I'm interested in that have to do with real people. That's right. This is really, this is your zone in a lot of ways. This is, these are often movies about people encountering real problems in their lives. It's usually, they're usually more grounded stories. Not always. I would say I saw something last night that was not necessarily the most grounded story. It was a bit absurd, but in a good way. The Sundance Film Festival has changed a lot over time, though. I think that the festival finds itself in an interesting state right now. It's obviously still one of the absolute key moments in American movies every year on the calendar, but there are fewer movies this year for sale. So typically what happens to these

festivals, obviously, some studios bring their movies and they show them off to journalists and people in the industry and just fans who come and visit the festival. And they say, you know, this movie is coming out in March or it's coming out in September or we don't have a date yet, but we want to see what the reaction of the movie is and we'll figure out what to do. But this year, there are also movies, obviously, that are for sale, fewer than ever. I've actually written about this quite a bit in the last few years about kind of what's happening to the state of independent movies. And it's an interesting thing, you know, like Netflix obviously has a ton of movies here. And obviously A24, stalwarts like that have movies. There are some other companies that are here on the hunt. Do you, are you going to get interested

in the kind of industry kerfuffle in the aftermath of maybe some of the films that didn't do so well that were purchased out of Sundance last year? I'll be interested in the sense of maybe some of the films that didn't do so well that were purchased out of Sundance last year? I'll be interested in the sense of there is every year one movie that has a huge bidding war and then it doesn't work out. I mean, I think historically we have paid more attention to the movies that have been overpaid for, which is honestly ungenerous. And you know what? If you're here and you're showing a movie and you get someone to pay a lot of money for it, I'm pro artists and filmmakers getting money. Congratulations to you. I agree. Get money if you're an artist. But I do think it is notable at this point that we are paying more attention to the quote errors in buying than to the discovery of some big next hit. Yeah, it's interesting. It's a little bit like American politics. You know, the failures are a little noisier than the successes. And, you know,

last year, a lot of people pointed to movies like Late Night, which Amazon bought and did not do as well at the box office. We talked about it on the show or movies like Blinded by the Light, which Warner Brothers bought and did not do as well as people wanted it to. There becomes this weird expectation game on the business side versus the storytelling side. The storytelling side, the air here is thin. People see a movie late at night after a long day and kind of despite its quality can sometimes be sent into a tizzy. You know, the festival high is a real thing. I've experienced it. And that tends to inflate expectations about what a movie can do and how many people actually want to watch the movie. It's an interesting way to consume an entire movie culture, to be in a place that is one part, this very thoughtful and beautiful story of people who worked really hard to make something

that is true to their artistry. And then also a bunch of people in a room deciding how many millions of dollars to pay for it. That is true. I do think there's a third element to it, which is just a lot of people who want to see movies. It is pretty remarkable. You and I woke up today and we're doing this podcast and then we're just going to see a bunch of movies and that's our job. And that's pretty great. I've been making a lot of jokes about the things I'm going to do instead of seeing movies just to torment you. Like riding the chairlift up and down. I don't even know if that's allowed. I don't ski, but no, we're going to see movies. That's pretty great. It is pretty great. And it is, there is that sense of enthusiasm that I think people do also get a little drunk on of just everyone here wants things to succeed and is

excited to go and talk about them. And then, and then you get wrapped up in it, but, but that's a nice place to be. We're lucky to be here. I agree. The other thing that's notable about the festival this year, which has been a year's long effort is to diversify the slate of movies that we see here. I think for a long time, this festival and many others were very white and very male, much like Hollywood. The Sundance Film Festival in particular has taken great pains to diversify their slate. It occurred to me as I was kind of going through my schedule that I think the first five films I'm going to see are all from directors of color. And it's very commendable what they do here, what the Institute here does. It's pretty amazing. And, you know, we talk a lot about how do we get more women nominated

for best director? How do we get more directors of color nominated for these awards on the Oscar show all the time? And it starts in places like this, which are certainly independent festivals, but also like corporately backed. And there are a lot of important people here and seeing those movies in that space, I feel like is a big stride. Any thoughts on the diversification of Sundance over the years? Yes, we put together a list and I just I added all of the movies that I was excited about. And I didn't do this on purpose, but they are all directed by women. I can't remember the last time that that's happened.

I am. That's not true. I am also excited about some of the films directed by men. I can't remember the last time that that's happened. I am. That's not true. I am also excited about some of the films directed by men. I don't mean to be essentialist, but I the ones I was responsible for adding all women. That's great. Should we talk about a couple of the movies that we saw so far? Yeah. Before we get into what we're most anticipating, and I should say when we did our most anticipated movies of the year episode a couple of weeks ago, we purposely didn't name any of these movies because we knew

we were going to try to spotlight some of them. Actually, I named one of them, but I didn't talk about them. Well, I put it on my wild card. Okay, good to know. So what did we see yesterday? Well, I saw two documentaries because I am a serious journalist and documentarian. How did that happen where I went to two documentaries and you went to two features? I don't know. That was weird. It's really, whatever.

It's follow your interests. So what was the first one? I saw Crip Camp, which is a documentary that Netflix brought here and is directed by Nicole Newham and Jim LeBrecht and notably executive produced by Barack Obama and Michelle Obama. Perhaps you've heard of them.

I have. And Crip Camp is a story about a camp in New York in the 70s that catered to people with disabilities and teenagers with disabilities, and was also in a lot of ways kind of the fount of the disability rights movement in the United States. And it both tells the story of the camp and of that movement, which is a civil rights movement. And there's a lot of stuff I didn't know in it, pretty much the whole history. And also has a ton of footage from the 70s. And it's told from the perspective of these campers and these people who are

doing this work. And I was pretty moved by it. Yeah, it seems like it had a great reaction last night great reception our uh our colleague Noah Malali who works on our films team came out of the movie and in classic Noah fashion said great archival in that film that was his takeaway um yeah and it's interesting that uh Obama Michelle and Barack have emerged as like the key documentary producers of our time after American Factory and their deal with Netflix. A lot of people seem to think already that this is the kind of movie that will compete for a best documentary Oscar 11 and a half months from now. I don't know. You know, I'll be seeing it later this week. I look forward to it.

Yeah, I recommend it. I saw a movie called Summertime, which was not my favorite movie I've ever seen. Not a bad film. It's directed by Carlos Lopez Estrada, who a couple of years ago made Blindspotting, which is a movie that we pretty much never discussed on this show. I confess I never saw it. A very interesting first feature that starred Davi Diggs and was essentially about a couple of people living in the Bay Area and kind of confronting the gentrification in that city, but told in a kind of like kind of whirling dervish.

Like it felt like a little bit of an urban Coen brothers movie, like early Coen brothers movie. It had a little bit like raising Arizona energy. And it was like one part goofy, one part highly serious. And it's a very entertaining and exciting. It's a kind of first feature that you would see it. Sometimes you'd be like,

that guy's going to do some cool stuff. Summertime is cool. It's an interesting movie. It's basically like an interlocking story of 25 young people or so living in Los Angeles delivering their stories via slam poetry. Now, I know what you're thinking, Amanda. Slam poetry is pretentious and weird and should be bound to college coffee shops. That is not what I was thinking.

What were you thinking? I think that everyone should be free to express themselves in the form that they see fit. I don't know whether I want to be present for all of those forms, but that's on me and that's not on the slam poets. Yes. And there's no ill will towards the slam poets and no ill will towards the filmmakers. I think there are times when the movie is incredible. I said this to you last night when we were discussing the movie. Probably the most real evocation of what Los Angeles in 2020 looks like. They shot the film, I think, across maybe three weeks in July of 2019. And it explores every nook and cranny of the city.

It explores spaces of great wealth and it explores spaces of poverty. It shows what middle class Los Angeles is like in a very clear degree. People are kind of, the camera is always moving. People are roaming in and out of storefronts. They're going into homes. They're coming out of homes. They're knocking on doorways. They're riding around in cars. It is a really cool picture of the city that you and I live in. As a movie, it's not really a movie. It's just a collection of people whose lives sort of loosely intersect. I guess it's a little bit Altman-esque in that way, but I don't think it has nearly the kind of loosely intersect. I guess it's a little bit Altman-esque in that way, but I don't think it has nearly

the kind of character development. It kind of rises and falls on the strength of the performer. There are a couple of performers, especially one young woman at the end of the film, who's just an absolute dynamo and gives a show-stopping delivery of her story that is a reason to see the movie. But it takes 82 minutes to get to her story. And that can be a little challenging when you're watching someone and you're like, boy, I really don't care about this guy.

Or I really don't care about these two young rappers. Or I really don't care about X, Y, and Z. Interesting movie, kind of a classic Sundance entry, which is like very creative. It's a little bit experimental. Does not have a home right now. It's for sale. Someone will definitely buy it. It'll be interesting to see what kind of place buys it.

Will it be like a streamer or will it be, it's a little bit of a tough sell in a movie theater. So we'll see. What else did you see? Sean, I saw Miss Americana. Yes, I did. Explain to people what that is. Miss Americana is a Netflix documentary about Taylor Swift, who is a figure of great fascination to me. And in a different way, a figure of great fascination to me and in a different way, a figure of great fascination to Sean Fennessey. It's probably like our original disagreement. Yeah, it might be. Yeah. I'm not a Taylor Swift fan. No, you're not. And I have to say I was a very big Taylor Swift fan for a very long time. And she had lost me a bit in the last couple of years. I think some of the public feuding and the public strategy wore on me, as it did on many people. And what's interesting about this documentary is that it does engage directly with that time.

So it's directed by Lana Wilson. And it is done with the cooperation of Taylor Swift. And some might say the producing notes of Taylor Swift. And it is a hagiography. I saw it with our friend Noah Malali. And Noah is not quite the Taylor Swift aficionado that, say, I am. And it was fascinating to watch him react to it because it was really the Taylor Swift experience in 90 minutes

in both the good and the bad. I think that there are some extraordinary moments of access both in terms of her talking about herself. And, you know, she's an intelligent person. She may not always deploy that intelligence strategically in terms of publicity or her career, I guess, but I think she is very smart and it's interesting to hear her talk about those things. And, you know, but at the same time, you're wondering how much of this is her knowing that she's speaking for a camera and kind of planting the next phase of her messaging, which has always been an interesting part of Taylor Swift to me. I think that watching

her write songs is fascinating. I think she's a very talented songwriter and they do have some moments in the studio of it just watching the inspiration actually happen, which as someone who enjoys her music, I enjoyed. There is also just so much lip service. And there is 30 minutes about Taylor Swift getting a political conscience in like 2018, which, ma'am, we were a little late, even though she's young, and it documents the process of her figuring that out. So I think it is, it's not perfect, but I think it is a really apt summary of the Taylor Swift experience. And I think you, Sean Fennessey, will be enraged by it. And I had a great time and I was like, you know who I might be back on? Taylor Swift. So it worked. That is definitely the goal of the movie. The goal of the movie is

not to explore a woman's political coming of age. The goal of the movie is to- Unfortunately, the movie thinks that that's the goal for like 30 minutes. And that's a no from me. I'm not sure if I'll be watching this. You have to. So we can argue about it. You have to. I'm a little bit dubious about not the merits of the film.

I'm sure the filmmaking is good. I don't even doubt Taylor Swift's sincerity. I'm sure she's a sincere person. And she did have a political awakening. I'm just a little more dubious of the machine itself. One thing that's interesting about this movie is that it is also on Netflix and it is premiering on Netflix in one week. And so this is a real, this is really a marketing effort to premiere a film like this at Sundance,

which has a big, noisy audience. A lot of people on Twitter are very excited to say like, T-Swift, I would die for you while seeing this film. Was there a frenzy at your screening? No, it was, I, it wasn't even full. I mean, I went to an industry, I did not go to the premiere. I went to the industry one for a reason because I think the premiere was probably something of a frenzy. I will say people were involved. It was interesting to watch it with a crowd and people were laughing at certain aspects of it. Um, and like that were supposed to be funny.

They weren't laughing at Taylor Swift. And it was fun to hear the music loud. I like Taylor Swift songs. So that's where I am. You've really been team Netflix so far at the Sundance Film Festival. Yeah, well, you know, I support people having access to films.

So that's where I am. That's great. Hopefully the film that I saw as well last night has some access to the wider world. It's called Bad Hair. If you're a fan of Netflix, you may know Justin Simien's work from Dear White People, both the film and the TV series, which appeared on the service. And this new film is not a Netflix movie. Bad Hair is kind of in my sweet spot of personal interest and kind of deeply outside of Amanda's sweet spot. It is a essentially a horror comedy heavy on the horror.

It's a period piece set during 1989. And I don't want to give too much about this movie away because it does not have a home yet. And so it might be a long time before audiences see it. We'll see. The horror aspects of it in particular are very 70s psychological thriller. They're very Brian De Palma. They're very Rosemary's Baby. They're very like,

is the thing that is wrong with me and my body inside my head or actually wrong with me? It's also obviously a story that was written to put women, essentially African-American women at the center of a story like this, which very rarely happens.

And it's obviously all about the culture of their hair and what that means to them and the presentation. And especially since the movie is set essentially inside the world of television, people who are on television and the choices they have to make to kind of commodify themselves and convert themselves to expectations. But it's also really absurd, pretty funny, very strange at times, I think kind of pushes the limits of what a normal audience is going to be able to enjoy. I think tonally, it's a little bit up and down. Sometimes you don't know if you're supposed to laugh or it's supposed to be afraid. How scary hair can be is an interesting question. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that as a person who's coping with

hair more than I am. I only have a little bit. I have to be honest, you're coping with hair a lot. You think so? Yeah. You have a strong mane and you make choices about it. Sure. Yeah. That's what you do. A lot of men don't. Let me just put that out there. That's true.

It's not in control of me, though. That's something that's notable about it. I thought bad hair was cool. I think it's really fun that there are people who still want to make really odd horror movies on kind of a grand stage. The movie stars a young woman named Ella rain, who I had never seen before. Who's pretty incredible.

And then there's a supporting cast of great folks. Lena Waithe is in the movie and Laverne Cox, Blair Underwood, an incredible turn by Vanessa Williams as sort of a key kind of mentor or is she figure in the film? Anyway, keep an eye out for Bad Hair. I thought it was very cool. Okay, so those are the four movies that we've seen. Let's take a quick break

to hear a word from our sponsor before we talk about the rest of the movies we're going to see. Today's episode of The Big Picture is brought to you by Bank United. Bank United wants you to go for more. Enter for a chance to win $54,000 if a team goes for and completes a two-point conversion during the big game on February 2nd. All you have to do is follow at Bank United on Twitter and tweet at Bank United your answer to what you would do with $54,000 using the hashtag GoForMore54. Everyone has a chance to win. The more tweets you send, the more chances you have of winning. And if a team completes a two-point conversion, you can win. Thank you. that's go for more on the number five four dot com bank united and a member fdic neither twitter nor the nfl entities have offered administered endorsed or sponsored the sweepstakes in any way

okay amanda so late last night i put together this madcap document full of movies that i'm excited to see you able and and generous podcast partner that you are also added some films i did um let's try to just keep a little bit of even balance as we step through this i mean that's This able and generous podcast partner that you are also added some films. I did. Let's try to just keep a little bit of even balance as we step through this. I mean, it's almost 15 movies. It's a lot of stuff here. And we don't really know much about this stuff. We can tell you who made the movie.

We can tell you who stars in it. We can tell you maybe where it's going to be on rare occasions when it's coming out. It's just an anticipation game, which is the whole essence of this festival. This isn't like going to Toronto where you know that, you know, the King's Speech is going to play there and it's a big deal and everyone has to go see it. That's so rude to the Toronto Film Festival.

Well, you know, I love the Toronto Film Festival. They premiere great films there, but sometimes they also premiere films like, this is an important movie this year, you know, Jojo Rabbit, this is important. This one is a little bit more up in the air

because you've got this, you've got a mix of first time filmmakers. You've got a bunch of people who are getting a chance to take a bigger swing, but not the biggest swing at the studio level.

You've got a couple of studio things that get, you know, wended in here. I wanted to start with Zola. Yes. Since Zola is the thing we're doing immediately

after this recording. Really can't wait for this. I'm very excited as well. Zola is an A24 movie. It's directed by a woman named Janixa Bravo, who if you've been listening to the show for a few years, I interviewed her with her former partner, Brett Gilman. They made a movie called Lemon, which is an extraordinarily weird movie. It has incredible style. Janixa has also made some really cool short films.

Zola is based on what, Amanda? It's based on a Twitter thread. Yes. Is this our first Twitter thread movie? Probably not. Because I think at this point, we're doing the thing where Rihanna is like, make a movie about this.

And then eight studios say yes. Which, you know what? Whatever Rihanna wants, Rihanna gets in my world. So that's fine with me. But I think this is the first unknown, someone comes out of nowhere, like a viral Twitter piece of writing. Twitter thread, I also think, really diminishes what this was about. I was trying to, again, to explain it to someone. And I was like, this is before you had guys doing one out of 45 thoughts about a political debate or whatever.

This was when it was someone taking Twitter and turning it into a medium for writing and storytelling. Twitter was slightly more pure when this happened. This was, I don't know, circa, what was it, 2015 around that time, 2014? I think so, yes. And there was eventually an article written about the story by david kushner who's written a great many stories about the intersection of culture and technology um that was called zola tells all the real story behind the greatest stripper saga ever

tweeted which kind of kind of explains it it is a stripper saga and um it's starring taylor page who's an actress we have not seen very much of and and Riley Keough, who's somebody we see a lot of all the time in movies like this. And one other very significant figure. Who else is in this movie? Nicholas Braun, a.k.a. Cousin Greg. You'd love to see Nicholas Braun. I gotta tell you, I, like pretty much everyone of my age and socio-demographic, am on a group chat solely dedicated to the exploits of Nicholas Braun, aka Cousin Greg. And I'm really looking forward to letting the group know what Cousin Greg is up

to next. It's great stuff. You know, I think that Janixa Bravo has a very provocative and fascinating and abstract style of filmmaking. And this is a fairly straight ahead story. It's a wow story. It's wild what happens in this Twitter thread. I would recommend not actually not reading the Twitter thread for people before they've seen it. You know, I remember just the very, very highest summary of what happens, but basically I don't remember what happens and I'm not going to look it up and I'm looking forward to being excited. Yes. I actually pulled the Wikipedia page up for this movie and read three words and I was like, actually, no, no, no, no, I don't want that. I suspect there'll be a bit of a scene for this movie. It's highly anticipated. I don't think it has a release date at the moment. So stay tuned for that. The next movie that we should talk about

is slightly more serious than Zola. It's called The Dissident. It's directed by Brian Fogle, who won an Oscar a couple of years ago for his film Icarus for best documentary. This is essentially about the murder and the aftermath of Jamal Khashoggi, the Washington Post journalist. There's obviously been an extraordinary amount of international intrigue, complication, and terror around his murder. This is a really inside story. You know, I think when we saw Icarus and talked about it a little bit on the show, we thought, you know, it's very well made and it's obviously an incredibly fascinating story, but it felt like Brian Fogle just sort of stumbled into the story. Yes.

And it didn't seem like he was an investigative journalist per se, though maybe he just got his chops up through the process of telling that story about Russia and PED programs and the Olympics and cycling and all these incredibly intense issues. This is even more intense. This is as deep and fraught a story as you could attempt to attack. I think this is also not something that you can accidentally find your way into, which I think is doing a disservice to what Brian Fogel did in Icarus. He had an interest and then he did keep pursuing it. And that takes journalistic

skills and a certain amount of doggedness. But there is kind of being like, huh, maybe there's a story here versus I have to find my way into one of the most sensitive and highly guarded issues and regimes in the world. Yeah. So we'll see what he gets. I mean, it seems like according at least to the description of the film, he's had extraordinary access to the Turkish government's evidence, to Khashoggi's fiance, to his close friends. I look forward to this. I think it will be a fairly grave film, but there's nothing wrong with that here, especially given that some of the other stuff here is a little bit more frothy. The next movie I don't know anything about.

I will say when I think of the Sundance archetype that we were describing earlier, the sort of like, what is a Sundance movie? I'm kind of thinking of Me and You and Everyone We Know, which was Miranda July's debut feature from 2005. And she has a new movie here called Kajillionaire, which is also for sale. Stars Evan Rachel Wood, Richard Jenkins, Deborah Winger, and Gina Rodriguez. Evan Rachel Wood and Richard Jenkins also scream Sundance to me in a way. Here's what's going for it.

Miranda July, obviously an immensely creative person willing to take chances. I think her 2011 movie The Future is a valiant experiment in movie making.

This movie's produced by Plan B in Annapurna. Plan B, Brad Pitt's production company. We love it forever. They don't have a lot of misses on their slate over the years. That's true.

They have really, really good taste. And Dee Dee Garner and Jeremy Kleiner, who run that show, are really, really good at what they do. So I'm not the biggest Miranda July head, but I'm interested in the movie. I was going to say the same thing, though. Do you remember the Miranda July email project from about 10 years ago you don't remember this what was that this is my favorite thing miranda july has ever done where she got a series of uh notable famous people to contribute one email from their archives um on a given theme so it would be like an email about i don't know swimming or something but the

only one i really remember is they sent an email about obama and kirst, swimming or something. But the only one I really remember is they sent an email about Obama and Kirsten Dunst was one of the participants. And she just forwarded an email that the only two words were Obama mom and Obama mom. And Kirsten Dunst has stayed with me all of these years throughout everything else that I have seen and consumed. So maybe, maybe we'll get another moment of brilliance like that. I hope we get something that clever. We'll have to wait and see. What's the next thing that we're looking forward to? It's called Downhill. It is directed by Nat Faxon and Jim Rash. And it is starring Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Will Ferrell, possibly two of the funniest people on the earth and possibly two of the only comedians that I like two out of three Julia Louis-Dreyfus Will Ferrell and John Mulaney and are we calling it a remake

I guess it is I mean we haven't seen the film yet yeah but it it certainly um has all of the hallmarks of Ruben Ostlund's Force Force Majeure which um you know was a very successful international film about five years ago movie i loved i love ruben's movies this movie seems a little bit jokier in tone it's essentially the story of if you've not seen force majeure a couple and their children who go on a skiing vacation and a they're sitting by the lodge apres ski like we're doing right now except for the skiing. And what appears to be an avalanche strikes the mountain

and a big swarm of snowy dust starts to fall down the mountain and all the people at the lodge become freaked out and the Will Ferrell

character in this movie, the father figure, the paterfamilias, runs away. Runs away from his family, does not attempt to protect them. And turns out that the avalanche was not an avalanche and it was something else. And it thrusts this family into an existential crisis, particularly this marriage between this couple.

I'm on board. You know, two people that I love doing fraught emotional comedy is something I like. Two people I don't feel that I personally see enough of. Yeah, absolutely. Also, great setting for this. I was already thinking, what would I do in this situation? If we saw it out the window here, we can kind of see the slopes. That should be downhill too. There's two podcast hosts are making a podcast that's Sundance Film Festival and then an avalanche comes and one books and the other one stays.

Okay. And then what happens to the podcast? Just a really weird monologue. Performance art. This movie is out in a month, less than a month, from Searchlight Pictures, the newly dubbed Searchlight Pictures. We didn't talk about how Fox is no longer Fox. It's just 20th century films and Searchlight Pictures. Yeah. for 20th century films and searchlight pictures yeah i understand from a film history perspective

what that is erasing and and that's sad for a certain group of people but i i don't have the emotional energy to get into corporate branding at this point i have i have other things to dedicate my my concerns to agree everybody was already calling it searchlight anyway um let's talk about another movie that's coming out fairly soon that i'm very intrigued to see it's called never rarely sometimes always it's directed by a woman named eliza hitman who's made a couple of small films um very sun dancey films it felt like love and beach rats i don't know a whole lot about this movie i don't want to know anything about this movie she makes very intimate stories about people struggling with the concept of what is love what are relationships

who are they in this modern world um star sydney flanagan and talia rider it's out in march from focus the one thing to note here is that it's produced by adele romansky adele romansky is barry jenkins's partner and go-to producer and was the producer of moonlight and has also impeccable taste it's thought to be a very one of the most gifted young producers in Hollywood. I'm looking forward to it. I don't know if there's much more to add. It does feel very traditionally Sundance in its way. It's notable that it does have a studio home. I think it's just, this is a good way to kind of build some word of mouth for a movie like this, which is what movies like this really need. If a studio like Focus is going to put it into theaters,

people got to say, I love this to go see it. Yeah. What's next? Should we talk about Shirley? Yes, we should, which I'm excited about, though. I realize that I don't know that much about it other than it is directed by Josephine Decker and starring Elizabeth Moss, Michael Stuhlbarg. You have written down here that it's executive produced by Martin Scorsese, my friend, Marty.

Yes, your old pal. My friend. We have similar tastes in all films. Your friend in theme park analysis. So I'm afraid that this is a little hoary, and so I haven't read too much about it because I don't want to psych myself out of seeing it. Because it's about a writer. Again, I don't want to spoil it out of seeing it because it's about a it's a writer I again I

don't want to I don't want to spoil it for myself at all okay all I can say is Josephine Decker makes these very propulsive kinetic character studies about people trapped in their own minds in a way um she made a movie called Madeline's Madeline in 2018 that was I didn't think worked perfectly but was in a like an amazing experiment in movie making and she she gets incredible performances that was my own lovely is another movie that she made butter on the latch these are all very independently made films much smaller films that are kind of fucking with form and design of movie making and this is you know this is kind of her step up.

Yeah. You know, Scorsese in the same way that he put his name on the souvenir or he puts his name on uncut gems. I think this is him doing this for Josephine Decker. And that's usually a good sign. It is.

So I look forward to it. This movie is also for sale. I do want to clarify, it is about the horror author, Shirley Jackson. I'm still going to go. Oh, fantastic. I know, but I can't read any more about it because I'm a wimp. Was Shirley Jackson a tortured woman?

I think we're going to find out, Sean. But if I had to put money on it right now, I'm guessing yes. Speaking of horror, The Nest. So I think this is Chris Ryan's most anticipated movie of this film festival. It's directed by a guy named Sean Durkin, who we haven't seen a movie from in a very long time. He made a BBC series about three or four years ago. But before that, he's best known for Martha, Marcy, May, Marlene. Oh, yeah, that movie. Remember that movie? I do.

There was a sort of film collective around that movie. Three guys who are going to have this incredible career who are you know making these intense sort of slightly genre-ish but mostly like psychological thriller horror movies of martha marcy may marlene was about a woman trapped in a cult essentially the nest stars jude law and carrie coon two people that i think were pretty big on on this show and that's all i know about and that's all i want to know. I think this is the last movie I'm going to see at this festival. I'm really nervous because I saw Jude Law, Carrie Coon.

I was like in. And then you said horror just now. Again, I'm trying not to spoil myself too much and also trying not to psych myself out of experiences that I should have. But if this is really, if Chris is excited about it and you're using the word horror

in a description of it, I'm in trouble, but I'm going to do it. Sean Durkin makes incredibly intense films. That's true, but there is a difference between, you know, I can handle Martha, Marcy, May, Marlene, or whatever it was called, which I saw. And there is psychological intensity and then there is gross out scariness.

Yeah, I misspoke. The series that he made was for Channel 4 was called Southcliffe. It starred Sean Harris and Rory Kinnear and it is very upsetting.

Okay. So, I would say proceed with caution, Amanda. Okay. The movie that I've probably had recommended to me most

is called Nine Days. I've had four or five people say this movie is a big deal. Again, we keep talking about these movies and saying we don't know anything about them. All I know about this movie is a big deal. Again, we keep talking about these movies and saying we don't know anything about them. All I know about this movie is that it's science fiction. It's directed by a first-time filmmaker named Edson Oda. The cast includes

Winston Duke, Zazie Beetz, Benedict Wong, Bill Skarsgård, and Tony Hale. Pretty good collection of young, talented people. It's for sale. I want to see it. Same. Dick Johnson is Dead is another movie that's here. It's a documentary. It comes to us from Kirsten Johnson, who people may recall. I mean, camera person, really one of the most celebrated movies of the 2010s. Not a movie we really discussed very often.

It came out before we started doing the show. It's coming to Netflix pretty soon. It's essentially about Kirsten Johnson's, I believe her father and like the latter stages of his life, the end of his life. And she has a very intimate style of filmmaking. And this seems also a little bit fantastical in its way. I'm looking forward to this.

And then, you know, we started with A24. There's another A24 movie here that's been much buzzed about. What's that called? It's called Minari. I'm really looking forward to this one. For a little while, I thought was gonna have to choose between seeing minari and going to the live rewatchables event that we're doing here at sundance and i gotta tell you i was gonna pick minari over you just so you know but i don't have to i think that

i'll be able to do both that's extremely rude of you well um i love film although that maybe says something about the anticipation for Minari, which comes to us from a director named Lee Isaac Chung and star Steven Yeun and Will Patton. And I think it's also a period piece about a Korean family. And we don't want to spoil anything else about it. I don't think this movie has a release date either. So many of these films don't have release dates,

which is kind of fun in a way. It's a rare moment in which my organized brain is able to let loose a little bit and just say like, oh yeah, I saw that when I saw it. I don't really have to worry about it fitting into the grid of my mind. That's good. I'm glad that we can allow you that freedom. Should we move to the category called movies Amanda cares about? I care about a lot of the movies. You did claim some of the movies that I'm most excited about, but there were a few that I wanted to add

to the slate. The first is called The Glorious, which I have written here, Julie Taymor back, which from what? I mean, I do know from what, from a theater directing career that's had its tremendous highs

and its tremendous lows. And she has also directed some films and is a very interesting figure to me. And this is also a movie about Gloria Steinem. You know, I'm interested in women's issues. Just generally speaking. And I don't know a ton about it, though. I do believe that it is. There are several different people playing Gloria across her lifetime. I think, I think if I'm wrong, I haven't that it is. There are several different people playing Gloria across her lifetime.

I think I think if I'm wrong, I haven't seen it yet. This is a big year for Gloria Steinem because she's also featured in the Mrs. America FX series. And Julianne Moore is definitely playing Gloria Steinem at some point in this film, which seems appropriate to me. And, you know, I'm curious. I'm curious as well. I'm going to see it.

I look forward to it. You've got, you know, Alicia Vikander's also in this film. Notable to me. This movie's for sale. We'll see. What else is on your list? The next movie is called Promising Young Woman, which is the written and directed,

the first feature by Emerald Fennell. You up on Emerald Fennell? I certainly know what she's done. She has, she was the showrunner, I believe for season two of Killing Eve. Exactly. And she also played Camilla Parker Bowles in season three of The Crown. Oh, my goodness.

Well, that I did not know because I've not yet seen season three of The Crown. Well, as you know, I have watched it several times at this point. So I am very curious. This also crucially stars Carey Mulligan, who is, I don't want to say quite back, but she, you know, I, she has, she's not around enough. I miss her. And, you know, and then she comes back and I'm like, oh, I'm so excited to see Carrie Mulligan. How about that? No, I think that's logical. You're the note you've made is Carrie Mulligan. I love you. Yes.

In lower, all lowercase. Well, I was writing this outline very quickly, very early in the morning. A childlike declaration of love. I do love Carrie Bolligan. I do too. Really one of the great actresses of her generation. This looks like a fun movie. It looks kind of pulpy and genre-y.

And it strikes me as kind of an interesting counterpoint to that Invisible Man movie that I was talking about earlier this year about like who gets to take revenge and how on the people who've done them wrong. What's next? This is the one that I did mention in Wild Guards and it's called The Last Thing He Wanted and it's directed by Dee Rees and it's adapted from a Joan Didion novel

about a journalist and it stars Anne Hathaway, Ben Affleck, Willem Dafoe and Rosie Perez. And that's all my interests right there. So show it to me. Yeah, Dee Rees got her start at Sundance with Pariah in 2011. And obviously she was, her

film Mudbound, which I don't know if you ever finished that movie. I don't have a comment on that. Got several Oscar nominations. No, DeReece is a really good filmmaker. And I'm interested to see this one because this is kind of a tough story to tell. And I think the novel was born of didion's time in the 90s kind of covering international conflict and she did a lot of journalism in that time and i've read some of

that which has been collected i've never read this novel so i look forward to this movie i look for any movie and hathaway ben affleck and willem dafoe what could go wrong we'll see um also a netflix movie yes and then uh you also noted that Miss Americana, which you've seen. And I have a smiley face next to it. A smiley face. It's important to seek out the things that you're interested and passionate about, Sean. And I did. Amanda, what are some of the other things you want to do here at Sundance, aside from see 26 movies like me?

Well, I did want to ride a chairlift, but you squashed that dream. Well, I mean, go with God. So I'm not really a mountain person uh it's just kind of i'm i like the ocean and the great plains as well you know you're really into nebraska wyoming you know like warm instead of cold generally speaking i like sunshine instead of gray but so i just but it's lovely to be here it's very picturesque but i just don't know how things work and so we were walking down main street and there there's a chairlift that goes up to one of the mountains that frankly i think looks more like a hill than a mountain. But that's separate conversation. And I was like, can I ride that? And you told me that it was very expensive and that I probably couldn't. But it looks very fun.

Well, you just you just want to ride the lift. How are you going to get down? Can't you just ride it back down? It goes both ways. I don't think it works that way. Maybe it does. Someone let me know. And you're just a very strange person. I don't know. Is there anything else that you're looking? I'm just trying to take in the sights to have the full Sundance experience. Absolutely. The culture of Sundance is not just going to the movies, but hobnobbing after the movies, going to the parties. I don't really like hobnobbing. You don't like hobnobbing. No, but I do like parties. Do you think there are past apps at the parties? Past apps? Yeah. I don't

know. I'll check out some of the invitations and let you know if there's opportunity for you to get some past apps. Why don't you like a... You mean like an hors d'oeuvre? Yes. Okay. Why are you speaking in the tone of a 58-year-old woman from 1982? Well, because maybe that's who I am. I don't know, but there is a real difference if it's a past app versus just like a cheese board that someone put out and you don't know how many hands have been on it. It's a treat when someone's handing it to you on a platter. Whenever we reach a moment like this in the podcast, I realize it is time for us to wrap up this podcast. Amanda, thank you so much. We'll be coming back to you Monday and recording an episode about some of the other things we've seen so far, but mostly about the Oscars.

Yes, those are still happening. They're still happening and they're coming damn soon. And you know, the narrative hasn't changed at all, which is interesting. So maybe it will have changed once we get past the DGAs and a couple of other things that are happening over the weekend. In the meantime, please stick around for my conversation with Randy Newman, who, as I said, is a very important human being. I hope you enjoy it. I feel very fortunate to be joined by Randy Newman in Randy Newman's home studio. Randy, thank you for having me.

It's a pleasure. It's not exactly a studio in that I can't exactly record in here, but I can work. Is this a place where you spend a lot of time? You know, when I'm working, I spend a lot of time. When I'm not, I don't. I don't come in here unless I sort of have to. So tell me about Marriage Story. This is your second film with Noah Baumbach.

Yeah. What's the cadence between you two? What does he say when he has something he wants you to collaborate with him on uh about the the initial talk about the job i mean yeah um it's only happened twice but basically he he calls and says that he has a movie and i said when's it going to be ready and he says it'll be ready certain certain time, and then sometimes it isn't. So that's the first communications we have, waiting for the picture to be ready. And this picture, I never saw the whole picture until very late in the game. I'd already recorded a great deal before I saw almost everything. And he gave it to me in pieces, you know.

Basically, you know, from reading the script, I knew what was supposed to go where. But actually seeing it is a different thing. That's highly unusual for you. It's pretty unusual, though it happens, you know. Pixar stuff is not always reel one, real two, real three, but in a row. I was going to use the word chronological, but it's not right, is it? Let me think about this for 20 minutes.

So, yeah, it does happen, but not to that degree, you know, to where you don't see it till the ending. What do you connect to in Noah's writing and Noah's work? What I connect to is that I think he knows how his characters talk. And I like to think that's what I do in that it's what I'm good at in terms of a lyric. Since I do characters, uh, just like he does to some extent, uh,

what they would say and what they wouldn't say. And I think he gets that right. There's no big, there's no one now there's no big, uh, clanging, uh, you know,

the things that stick out, uh, that the character wouldn't say. So the movie opens with this big canvas for you to write music on. Had you ever had a challenge like that before in a movie? And did you know that going into when you had the script? No, I didn't. So when do you learn that you're going to have?

When I saw it, I think is when I learned it. I don't remember hearing about it otherwise. I wouldn't have agreed to do the picture if I had known. That's what I was going to say. It seems like a challenging thing to do, this sort of two-part suite at the top of the film. It's challenging, but it's also sort of an opportunity. Hopefully I didn't waste completely to do something.

I mean, I remember big challenges before. I mean, there's been stuff in Toy Story that was difficult, dream sequences that go on for a while. So it wasn't like totally terrifying like a four- or five-minute chase would be. At least it wasn't like a lot of notes where you got i hate even thinking about that but uh but a challenge yeah it was how do you problem solve when you have a scene like that when you have a chase scene and you're like i don't know what to do are you just sitting in front of the piano for long stretches of time? Sometimes.

Sometimes I'll get an idea and it'll carry me a ways. Hopefully get another one. But yeah, I sit there. Piano or the synthesizer. This is going to seem like a pedantic question maybe, but how long does it actually take to

compose a piece for a film for you typically the whole picture is seen like that one seven eight eight minutes that one yeah yeah i i uh i don't know i can't do much more in a minute a day uh i think john williams can do two maybe more and it's very good music, too. And it's big, hard music, difficult Star Wars stuff. This isn't that as difficult, but it's delicate stuff. I thought hard about what kind of music would these people listen to? Is that relevant to the scene?

I mean, what would you play? Some sort of Gypsy Kings kind of thing? That's a little too, it wouldn't do anything that definitive. But I mean, did it matter what kind of music they'd listen to? I sort of thought maybe it didn't because I couldn't figure out what they would listen to. Why the decision to use a chamber orchestra? Was that your choice or it was?

Well, it just, I think a big one would simply have been too much for the picture. It was sort of more of a chamber work. It was in rooms. It wasn't outside a lot. So I thought that would be a good idea. And I learned a great deal to do it by doing it mainly be careful if you do it again because it's hard whereas with a big orchestra you can double a string section with a flute and it affects the

string sound but you don't really hear the flute, but it does something to it. With a chamber orchestra, you double strings with the flute, and you hear it. So there's no hiding place out there. You'll hear it. If you clarinet play something, you'll hear it. Did it take longer to record because of the intimacy of the group? Maybe. Maybe a little bit longer in getting the sound.

And also, Noah wanted some sound things. Sometimes to have it sound like it was older kind of music, which the engineer got, David Boucher. He's very good and he was part of the dub with with Noah and got that sound. He had temp the movie, you know the music they put in temporary music, it's called temp music, with George Delarue and he liked that very much. You know, sometimes directors fall in love

with their temps and it makes it difficult for a composer when you've got to come in and write and they've been listening to Delarue for two years and they've grown fond of it, of course. But I said, you know, do you want people to think this is in france

because his music sounds french yes he does he's definitely a french composer which for the pictures he's done in france is a really good thing uh and he could do that he could he's gone now but i mean he could do other. He could do American pictures, English language so very well too. But then he wouldn't write, you know, wouldn't use the whole film scale and do French music. Do you see the film with the temp score? Yeah. It's shown to you that way?

Absolutely. Does that mess with you at all to see it that way? Yeah, it does. It lets you at all to see it that way yeah it does it lets you know what the director has in mind if he's less than articulate about it but yeah it messes with you sometimes i'm grateful to have it i must admit uh but when somebody falls in love with it i try and avoid pictures that that have that kind of thing going on. Because even if they temper with your own music, it could be a problem. Needless to say, they want to see it with music.

Almost everyone does. Spielberg doesn't, I don't think. But almost everyone else does. Have you ever been defiant and tried to turn something in that was significantly different from this? How does that go? I think it was alright. I mean, I felt maybe this would be alright.

You know, when you're writing for a movie, it's a different thing and you become a cowardly in that you're writing for yourself as always, I am, and for an imaginary public sometimes, but you're also writing for one man or woman, director, and you may be complaining to your music editor, your orchestra, say, excuse me, this guy's an idiot, Jesus Christ,

what am I going to do? I can't do anything with it. So he turns something in, and if he likes it, you go, oh, you do? Oh, I'm so happy. Really, it's shameful. We all need validation, though. Yeah, but you shouldn't knock the validator if that's the case uh and uh you know what can you do i mean you were uh it's their movie

their names on it so i try to do what they want of course i feel like you also don't just write for the director but you write for the characters in this movie in particular. You know, Charlie and Nicole. Yeah, you do the best job you can. They have their, and they, in this movie, they have their own motifs and you know when it's their moment and when it's his moment. Is that something also? I hope so. But do you guys discuss that and say, I'm gonna, I'm try and do that, not as thoroughly as I might have,

because it was all mixed up in the opening. He'd be talking about him, but she'd be in the forefront of the scene. And you can't ignore what you see. I play what I see. That's it. I mean, you know, I used a French horn for him. It was a little more man's music, music men would like. I feel like Adam Driver is the French horn of actors, too.

You know, sort of the tone of his voice, his power. But he can play very softly. Not very softly, but pretty softly, the horn again. So, yeah, they had their own stuff, but mainly because of how they looked to me, what they were doing. I've heard composers talk about this motive and I wrote her or something like, you know, just an extensive elaboration of, of,

of thematic stuff, motific stuff, Wagnerian stuff, always thinking of the sword, you know, and tell you, I do it less than most composers do. And I'm beginning, I, I tell you, I do it less than most composers do. And I think sometimes, because what I can do really pretty well is write melodically, write a tune.

So I think sometimes that I'll want to write another tune rather than develop what I got. I don't think I'm completely wrong. In a picture like this I know I'm not because I had to have the material. I'm thinking maybe sometimes I could develop something more often than I'm just sort of not interested in it. It's like I had teachers that said that Schumann or Schubert it's too bad that they ever wrote anything with the development. They wrote a sonata or a symphony. In Schubert's case, it can be messy.

And I'm just like Schubert. No, he just sort of believed that they never should have got into development too much. So you don't have any... That may be me. I may have made that up. No teacher ever said it. It doesn't sound like they would say that. When I listen to the music, it's funny you describe it that way.

It reminds me more so than a lot of your other scores of some of your pop songs. It reminds me of I Miss You or Suzanne. Is there ever a time when you're writing music for a film when you want to set words to it or you feel like maybe I should save this and put this in another place? No, I don't save anything, but I've had ideas for songs while I was rubbing around trying to think of doing a cue and trying to write it for the orchestra. A thought of things, yeah. Is it very organized the way you say, well, this is an assignment and this is the thing that is my personal thing? Or is there not such a demarcation between those two ideas well it's

organized to the extent that when you do a picture you have to work on it all the time i can't do anything else i was doing two at once which is i found difficult is that the first time you've taken on two at the same time no i think i've done it before but uh I haven't done it in a while. And it's a lot of work to do that. I mean, it's better than having a real job, but not very much. My uncles used to complain that they were film composers. One of them wasn't. And he'd listen to them complain. You know, Jesus Christ, this director, what a jerk.

I've got four minutes to do by next week. And do complain like that and he said listen it's better than threading pipe and it is i read that you um recorded marriage story at uh the studio named after your uncle alfred at fox is that is that something you've done before uh yeah i've done some stuff there mostly i've been at son, but I was at Fox this time. What relationship do you have to their music at this point in your life? Is it something you listen to and return to? When a picture's on that he did, I'll look at it most often. I don't have albums of Alfred's music.

He was great. He was the best ever, I think. Maybe I'm prejudiced in some way, but he was really good. He won quite a few Oscars for his work and was nominated a lot.

Yeah, nominated 40-some times. Given some of your for his work and was nominated a lot yeah nominated 40 40 sometimes given some of your uncle's work and the fact that they've all won for score is it meaningful to you to to win for that category score yeah yeah it's sort of this yeah meaningful uh song uh bless i've won twice One twice for that. But, you know, I've seen it enough to know that you can't worry about merit being rewarded. If you think, oh, my song's the best song by far, it doesn't matter. You know, the picture the song might be in, the score might be in, is almost more important than the quality of the score. And that's just the way it is.

I never was very, was disappointed when I lost or, you know, didn't stick with me at all. But I've always been happy to be nominated because it's your peers, presumably, in the music branch that do that. And I've always liked it to get nominated. I have to play on a show. I'll try my hardest. That's all I can say. You still like to dress up and go to the party and everything?

Yeah. Like to? No. But yeah, the thing is, it's so weird academy awards it's there's so much attention given to it for one day uh that it's kind of spectacular to go to it you know it's just like you're on the moon or in finland and you know people asking you know, people asking, you know, what are you wearing? I said, well, I'm wearing a suit.

They said, no, who is it? Who is it? You know, I look at the label. And it's just so weird that as I've gotten older, I like things like that that are strange, you know, that are really,

like going to the Golden Globes is always odd. i went so many celebrities at the golden globes you know because it's tv people and movie people you turn around like this you know someone but you're you're from this showbiz family are you still starstruck by surrounding surrounded by people like that uh no i'm not uh but i'm i'm bemused by the plentitude you know i mean there's just so many famous faces yeah so i'm i'm not exactly star trek i mean i don't know who everybody is anymore, but it's sort of amazing all in one spot. What do you prefer at this stage, the writing or the recording? Performing.

Really? Yeah. I like that best. It's the easiest, and you're supposed to enjoy it up there for the audience. You have to sort of like what you're doing first, so I try to. You're supposed to enjoy it up there for the audience. You have to sort of like what you're doing first, so I try to. And it's good for me because I don't know if you've noticed, but I'm kind of negative.

Yes, but in a nice way. Yeah. I don't know. You're adept at banter on stage, I've noticed, over the years. I wish I was doing better by you you can edit it no you're doing great um well thank you well you know many years ago you you talked about perfectionism as a struggle for you and how writing could be difficult because you wanted things to be perfect all the time i guess yeah do you still have that sensation yeah i mean it isn't that i expect it to be perfect i mean that's not going to happen

but i just want it to be better i mean if i absolutely could conclude that i was getting worse if i like wasn't as good as as i was when i I did Awakenings, which was a good score. I'd been working a lot and I was in shape. And it was pretty good for that picture. It helped it a lot. And Avalon. If I thought I was appreciably worse, I wouldn't do it. What do you mean when you say in shape?

Well, as I recall, I did two movies, three movies. It wasn't like broken up where I'll do a movie, then I'll be on the road, then I'll be writing songs for an album and doing the album, then do another picture. It was like I did some consecutively. Yeah, and I noticed it when I did like like monsters, not a picture that's going to get Academy Awards for me, but I noticed that I was writing well and I was doing things I didn't know that I could do necessarily.

And if I did more, if I'd done more pictures, I might have run out of things to write, but I think I'd have been really pretty good. Are there any that you wish you could go back and do again? No. Now you're reflecting. Maybe the paper is a picture I did. Maybe.

But I thought I did okay with it. So this is something, this is personal to me. I really like the Maverick score. I think it's really fun. It's fun to listen to. Brilliant for the film. Yeah.

But it doesn't, it's never going to have something like that piece of work, the kind of shelf life or even importance, I think, to people that something like Sail Away has. No. Is that something that you're okay with do you think about that when you're doing the work it would be nice if if film music were elevated to the status of songs uh but it's not a surprise uh uh sail away has with it a lyric you know that's of some significance, and it's of some significance to me.

But there's things I've written like Avalon or – I think it's on your wall right here. It was for Gary Ross. Pleasantville. Yeah, Pleasantville. There was good stuff in there. Maybe that should have been a chamber school. I don't know.

I don't want you second-guessing yourself. No, no, I'm not. Yeah, but, you know, film music is getting more popular, let's say. You know, people are able to go on the road. James Dean Howard went on the road, I think, to Europe. Zimmer goes on the road. It's a certain type of thing you go on the road, I think, to Europe. Zimmer goes on the road. It's a certain type of thing you go on the road with, though, and I haven't done that many.

I could go on the road with, you know, Toy Story, Disney stuff, I guess. I can also go on the road with my songs, which are just piano, which I'd rather do. How do you feel when Pixar comes to you with another Toy Story movie and says, we need you to write more songs? Do you feel when pixar comes to you with another toy story movie and says we need you to write more songs do you feel like i i don't know if i have anything left to say how do you conjure the inspiration when you're especially on the fourth time around on

a series well if they have more to say and they did uh i can have more to say it's more difficult with the score because that you've done a number of times. Some things about it, being able to use the same music, that's alright. You do have some of it that I could just plug in. But yeah, it's not

you want to repeat yourself in something like this. Remember what fun we had with Toy Story 2? And that's why you do something like that in Toy Story 4. What comes first when doing a Toy Story movie, the original songs or the score? It's varied. Sometimes I'll do a piece of the score and then there'll be a song thing. In one case, the Sarah McLuhan song,

they animated to what I did. And in Toy Story 1, yes, they animate to what I do, actually. Sometimes it's just a piano version of it or something, but they usually animate to what I write. Meaning you write a piece and then you turn it into them and then they'll create the animation set to that. Interesting. They will. I know that's true of two or three that I can think of. Yeah, they'll tell me what they want.

I'll do it. And then when the scene is detailed, they'll hit things that are in the song you mentioned John Williams and Zimmer and Newton Howard but you're competing against your cousin this year yeah it's good score too this is a good score he's never won no are you guys are you speaking at this time yeah I saw a couple weeks ago and do you have a friendly competition with that sort of thing do you give each other notes on your work what is that like no it's funny we love each other but we don't see each other much you know and he lives around the corner too it's it's an odd

family it really is and he he says that geez i live right around the block I don't know why I don't call you or come over and I say well you're younger than I am so you walk over here but no we have no maybe there's some rivalry that I don't know about in my

head but I don't feel that way he's very good. Yeah you have such distinctly different styles too it's funny to think of that operating inside the same family i have a style more like his father his is nothing like his father's that i can think of well that's that's common right we all reject our fathers in some way sometimes when he has to cut loose in the picture when there's no choice uh he'll sound somewhat like his dad. Do you find yourself listening to a lot of the contemporary scores,

trying to take things away from it? No, but I should. I mean, when I'm watching the pictures from the Academy, I'll listen to the scores. And there's some good people out there. Randy, I'll end on this. We end every episode by asking. No,, I'll end on this. Um, we end every episode.

You have to end on this. I'll let you do that again when we're done. Um, we end every episode of the show by asking filmmakers, what's the last great thing that they've seen? You're a composer, but you're watching a lot. Cause you're a member of the Academy. That's a great thing.

I've seen. Yeah. Parasite. Parasite's a great picture. Tell me why you think that's the case. Well, it has a lot of respect for the audience, which I like very much. He expects the audience to figure some stuff out, I think. And it's about class, which is spectacularly unusual.

Yeah, Parasite. That's a great pick. Randy, thank you for doing this. It's an honor. I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to The Big Picture, which was brought to you today by AT&T, reminding you that when it comes to wireless networks, just okay is not okay.