The Big Picture - The 20 Most Intriguing Movies of the Fall and the Best of the Toronto International Film Festival

Episode Date: September 15, 2023

Sean and Amanda are joined by Ringer contributor and film critic Adam Nayman to discuss the highs, lows, and shifting culture of the Toronto International Film Festival (1:00). Then, they share a joint list of the most anticipated movies of 2023 that neither have shown each other until now (23:00), including ‘Taylor Swift: The Eras Tour,’ ‘Pain Hustlers,’ ‘Leave the World Behind,’ and more. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Adam Nayman Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, yo, this is Jason Goff from the Full Goal Podcast. Me and the crew, we like to entertain you. And we're going to do more of that this football season because the Bears should be more intriguing. There should be more fascination. Justin Fields, is this the make or break year? Is DJ Moore the piece that's going to put them over the top? You can catch us on Sundays, Tuesdays, and Thursdays, or when we have an emergency podcast when we have breaking news. Make sure you follow the Full Goal on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Get groceries delivered across the GTA from Real Canadian Superstore with PC Express. Shop online for super prices and super savings. Try it today and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the most intriguing movies we've yet to see.

In 2023, Amanda and I will count down 20 films left on the slate, break down what they mean for the year in movies, the box office, the Oscar race, our emotional well-being. But first, joining us for a special report from the Toronto International Film Festival is our Canadian correspondent, Mean Pod Guy. It's Adam Naiman. Hello, Adam. How are you? Funny you should say that, Sean.

I have a big-picture- picture themed encounter to share with you guys. I was minding my own business, hanging around a tiff, and someone came up to me and asked if I was, in fact, Adam Naiman. And I said, why? And she said, she's a big fan of the big picture and that she doesn't understand why everyone says I'm mean. Yes. She said. Okay. So then I then spent 45 minutes chatting with her and she had to conclude at the end that

I was in fact very nice as was she. And just trying to not be mean in person and save it all for when I talk to you guys apparently. Great. Yeah. How do you think your meanness is going to go on this podcast? Well, I've spent seven or eight days running back and forth on home turf to a film festival that's been mostly disappointing while also trying to like, you know, take care of loved ones and teach a couple of classes. So I'm a little grumpy, but I'm very, but I'm very happy to see you. Well, thank you. I'm happy to see you as well. So it could go either way. Your meanness to me is not a declaration of your attitude as a human being, but more so maybe the relationship that you have to some of the movies

that you talk about from time to time, which is ironic because I often try to invite you on for things I know you love. But when you go to TIFF, as you said, your home turf, you can't control the environment. Whatever the festival has programmed and whatever you see at that festival is what you're weighing in on. I would say from afar, it was a slightly weaker slate of movies this year compared to relative years. And there probably are a variety of factors there, but Amanda and I were not there. We went to our own festivals. You are the official Toronto informant here. So like, was there a lot of stuff you liked?

Was there anything that you liked? What was your takeaway from the festival in general? My takeaway from the festival in general, I kind of talked about this in that curtain raiser piece that I did for Ringer, which commented on maybe some of the factors about why the programming looked a little bit weaker. I mean, for one thing, there's the ongoing strike.

And while you don't want to speculate too much on certain films being invited or disinvited based on red carpet talent, that's a factor. There's the fact that certain films and filmmakers gravitate towards the New York Film Festival, and if not, the same-sized audiences, maybe slightly elevated prestige. So you do feel a little jealous when you see that like poor things by Yorgos Lanthimos or Michael Mann's Ferrari or whatever are playing in

Venice and New York and giving Toronto a miss. But I also think that TIFF's been chasing Hollywood for a long time and now it's caught it and Hollywood's a little broken. So the festival looks a little limpy, right? You know, people noted how many like vanity music docs there were. People noted how many movies there were directed by actors kind of being first time directors.

And then you got to give the movies a chance and watch them to see if they're as mediocre as it seems. And a lot of them, unfortunately, were right. But TIFF's narrative is always curate your own festival within the larger festival it's hard to go here for 10 days and not see 15 or 20 good movies if you try but there's 300 and man the quality can drop off in like a split second if you're not careful amanda and i talked about this when we did venice and tell you ride we talked a little bit about how many movies is the right number to see in a day. I like to see four, sometimes five. Amanda, in her circumstance, was seeing two, sometimes three. What do you like to do?

I like to see one and then run home to my children. I think a three to four movie day can be pretty exhilarating, especially if there's like wild shifts of style and tone and quality. Um, I mean, when I was younger and used to cover TIFF for, you know,

alternative press in Toronto or whatever, you know, you try and mainline five or six in a day and that's fine when you're in your twenties, but like, you know, like you guys, I'm broken.

I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the, the, the, the attention span isn't there.

The posture isn't there. You find yourself wondering what you're doing this for. Yeah, what does it all mean? I agree. Existentially destroyed. I mean, for people who are sort of at home trying to evoke what a festival like TIFF

looks like, it's about eight square blocks of the most downtown part of downtown Toronto just kind of overrun and infested with people wearing lanyards, you know, lining up, right? And the city, I think in past years, really gets kind of seduced and like, you know, caught up in the excitement of TIFF.

This year, it felt very different. It kind of felt like TIFF was happening and the larger city just didn't really notice. It was like two solitudes going on at the same time. I just think that like movie going as an out and out event where you go out and, you know, chew over a movie with your friends. It's just kind of being compromised by streamers and COVID and all kinds of other factors. Whereas at Telluride or Venice, you have nothing else to do.

Maybe not Venice, but at Telluride, right? Like it's just like a compound for viewing movies, as I understand it. Pretty much. And buying stents and hats. That's also something you can do there.

And Venice, you're on a separate island. So once you're on the island, you're literally on an island. Yeah. So with TIFF, you are just in the middle of a city where, like,

the Jays are challenging in the playoffs and millions of people are living and going to work. Like, it's not like there's no excitement, but it's not as totally immersive as it sort of used to be. Interesting. Well, tell me, was there anything there that you loved? Was there anything there that I loved? Not your children.

I don't mean your children. I know you love your children in Toronto, but at the movies, was there anything that you loved? You know, love is a strong word um i there he is i mean pod guy i think that at least three or four of the movies that will end up chewing over as being you know among the better movies of the year or certainly better artists movies of the year were there like um radu judes do not expect much from the end of the world which is crazy and funny and political and probably the only movie at TIFF that features satire of Andrew Tate alongside jokes about Godard and Ceausescu.

That's pretty great. And a movie that I'm really keen to talk to you guys about, I don't know if either of you saw it, is Richard Linklater's Hitman, which I think is a- Neither of us have seen it. I missed it by one day. Venice just takes forever.

At the risk of spoiling a future segment of this episode, it's pretty high on both of our lists. Yeah. Glenn Powell, if you're listening, you're still invited to a draft. Well, you know, all I can just, you know, is taunt you guys for not seeing it. But then, you know,

I haven't seen David Fincher's The Killer or Ferrari or the Sofia Coppola Elvis movie. So I think you're winning, at least the one of you. Amanda's doing the Amanda dance right now, for those of you who cannot see at home. Amanda's doing the Amanda dance. I quite like the link later. Love is too strong a word for Harmony Korine's aggro drift, but it's a fun movie to talk about and i think very useful in the context of a festival that shows a lot of very conventional politically correct kind of edifying work it's fun to watch something that's kind of like that stupid and virtuosic i kind of i didn't enjoy watching it

but i enjoy thinking about it and talking about it and and and writing about it um and uh for for another publication for for cinemascope you know i wrote about the new adam agoian movie seven veils as being kind of a return to form which may not be like headline news for americans but for canadians we don't have that many famous directors and for agoian to kind of make something that has a little bit of that 90s juice you know is is is is pretty cool um and yeah i mean there's plenty of good movies but some of them feel like movies that have been just you know found already like obviously jonathan glazer's zone of interest major piece of work you know like that's a can prize winner so is katherine bratt's late summer which i which i uh liked a lot so you know the

curtain razor piece i did for you guys was just more about the general politics and state of the festival. But like there is good stuff. Was there anything you really didn't like? I felt like this is not I really didn't like,

but like I felt like Alexander Payne's holdover is like being beaten to death with a Cat Stevens album. It's like very, very... Adam, thank you for just justifying i have absolutely no basis for being not that psyched about that film and then that thank you for justifying that instinct it's like a very sort of like incrementally manipulative sort of movie and i thought that it was interesting because the

reviews the the reviews kind of just replicated like the press kit the press kit is is like, this movie evokes the 70s movies of Hal Ashby. And then the reviews are like, this reminds me of Hal Ashby in the 70s. And I'm like, oh, good. The press notes work. But it's still an accomplished movie. I thought that supposedly the worst movie at the festival, I didn't see it. But the word on the street is that Chris Pine's Pool Man is unwatchable. Yes.

Very negative reviews. Have you seen any stills of how Chris Pine is presenting himself in his own film? Yeah, I must say it made me want to see it. Chris is the superlative Chris,

so I'm disappointed by this. He is. I'm a huge fan of Chris Pine, and it just seems like another bro who, you know, really likes likes 70s like L.A. Noire yeah to trying to do his own weird thing yeah I like the last of the long goodbye yeah my version of it I think um that that does underline something interesting which is like a lot of actors clearly directed films and appeared at the festival as directors and not as actors um

and there was a significant uptick in the number of those folks. Did you see any of those movies? I saw a lot of them and you'll notice I didn't lead with them. You know, I had one, you know, one movie that got a kind of mixed reception that I was kind of surprised as many people liked it as they did. But it's like, just, he's a kind of interesting person to see make a movie is Michael Keaton with this movie knocks goes away, which is one of like seven movies this fall that is about a hit man.

I don't know. I don't know who's going to write the zeitgeist piece on this, but like Fincher link later, you know, this movie, this idea of contract killing is, is in, in,

in, in America right now. And he plays a, a, you know know a really cool assassin who's succumbing to accelerated memory loss and dementia so he's kind of got to get his ducks in a row before that overtakes him and so it's like you know keaton making himself this sort of actorly showcase to play a character with you know dealing with a disability and and and an illness like it kind of feels like a fake movie though it's like

interesting because you know what would michael keaton who's worked with all these great directors like what does it look like when he makes a movie but the answer is like nothing you know hugely special um i saw the finn wolf yeah yeah can i ask you well just a personal uh interest question about nox goes away if you see any merch on the street available like special edition i don't know if you know my son's name is nox so i'm just looking for anything you know it doesn't seem like that's going to be like wide release merch based on the reception so just anything you spot i think it's going to be mass produced and sold at the gap yeah just let me just let me know and we would be interested i like i would have brought you my like ticket stub okay

i don't i don't i don't think there's gonna be any knocks goes away you know i saw the the finn wolfhard uh co-directed slasher movie uh one hell of a summer or hell of a summer which is all i can say is like that's just my mistake you know how old is finn wolfhard is he 23 like i i don't know and and i don't care to know you know um he he he no one can that is actually no no one can say he didn't make this movie and that his name Adam Fitt Wolfhard is 20 years old. Well, maybe he should relax. Honestly.

Give him credit for trying. He's creating. He's a young man in the industry. Maybe he should sit and learn and listen a little bit longer. You know? Okay. He needs to wolf harder

um you know it was it was it's just not very good i can't believe you made that joke it's just it's just it's it's just not very good you know the the midnight madness section is usually like an oasis of a fun little breaks in the middle of the festival and i think the good ones must have been the ones i missed although i will say there's an argentinian horror thing called when evil lurks or where evil lurks which is pretty which is pretty good yeah i'm looking forward and i think is going to be on on shutter so that was kind of best in show in terms of the like uh you know the the the kooky midnight sort of um sort of genre stuff. And neither of you have seen Agro Drift yet, right? No. No, I haven't.

Well, Amanda's husband profiled Harmony Corrine for GQ. He was in Miami for a while with Harmony and I think had a wonderful time. But the Venice premiere was at midnight. And that's kind of out of my uh ability zone right now i've also paid um fifty thousand dollars american to watch it inside of a box designed by harmony alone for several consecutive days which i'm really excited about it's just a special experience you know donating the proceeds to charity so i look based on your review i'm excited you're gonna it's travis scott

like you've never seen him before. Yeah. I'll bet. Well, I mean, I haven't seen him. That's factually accurate. Which is,

which is to say in, in infrared. Right. Um, I mean, I, I, I,

I'm, I'm curious, you know, asking about, asking about Telluride and asking about Venice. I mean, like, are the vibes in those places?

Good. People are feeling like happy as they're trekking off to, to, to what they're saying, to off to what they're seeing. You're sparing, aren't you? My goodness. Telluride, yeah, the vibes were very good. I think a lot of people felt like Telluride was really back,

not just because it was the 50th year for the festival, but because the programming was pretty good. The films were really good this year, I thought, especially relative to 21 and 22, which were very compromised by what was happening in the world. So, yeah, I thought so. Yeah. I mean, the vibes in Venice where I'm in Italy, you know, so that was awesome.

I think it was my first time at Venice. And I think like the general understanding was it was like a little less glitzy than it usually is because that's a pretty, you know, glamorous festival. And I went to a lot of Netflix premieres where there were obviously like no stars. And then I did go to the Priscilla premiere, which had a waiver. And so Sofia Coppola was there and the children were screaming for Jacob Elordi. And, you know, that was, that was fun. It was just also like a lot of Italian influencers in prom dresses. I don't know whether that's the vibe that you're looking for. But I was highly entertained.

And, you know, as you said, I saw a lineup of pretty heavyweight stuff. So that was fun. Well, actually, one of the best movies I saw here won a prize at Venice. I didn't mention it, but I was very fond of Hamaguchi's Evil Does Not Exist. Which is certainly an odd way to follow up Drive My Car, but very good. That was sort of what Amanda had said. Yes, I was as well. I would like to talk about the ending with you and everyone else once that's possible for everyone.

But yeah, the score in particular, I've been thinking about that. It's so beautiful in that movie. Yeah. And it was, as I said, like I saw, you know, Maestro and Ferrari and Poor Things and all of these like very, you know, big swinging for the fences, like Hollywood-ish movies for lack of a better word. And then got to see that and it was a nice change, and a great film. As you were talking about the holdovers, I was thinking a bit about the Audience Award. As we're speaking, it has not been handed out yet,

but the Audience Award is often a predictor of Best Picture nominees historically, sometimes even winners in the case of movies like Green Book. I have a prediction, but go ahead. I have seen two movies proffered as potential winners. Um, I've seen the holdovers and I'm trying to forget. It's not next goal wins. That wasn't the one that I saw. Do you have any next goal wins material?

I have no next goal wins material. I can just say that, um, when, uh, when Taika Waititi gave Sean Levy a Tiff Tribute Award, it was really a case of artists of equivalent stature, major artists being fed at this festival. I did not see Next School wins. I think a really good contender is American Fiction. That was the one I was thinking of and what I was going to ask you about, which neither Amanda or I have seen yet, but I've heard great things about it. It has, on top of the things that it has kind of going forward as a movie, it would be a very funny TIFF Audience Award winner in the context of previous TIFF Audience Awards where, you know, as has probably been chewed over on this podcast, films like Green Book and Three Billboards, you know, were like wildly embraced in Toronto. And then when more people saw them and critics, let's say of different, you know, backgrounds or critics with different angles on these movies saw them, they sort of became huge kind of like problematic discourse topics.

And American fiction is about that process, right? Of like, who is watching? Who is reading? Who is evaluating? Who are these things for? And really, what does it mean when uh when uh when a work in the case of this film you know by by black artists supposedly dealing with themes the african-american themes when it's embraced by a white audience like what

does that say about the work and what does that say about the audience so if american fiction were to win at tiff it would either suggest that tFF's audience has gotten much more self-aware or like somehow even less, right? Which would be in terms of who the laughs in that movie are directed at. I definitely think that considering his career as one of the great American actors, it'd be nice to see Jeffrey Wright get an Oscar nomination for this thing because he's amazing in it. I like that idea. I like that movie as a sleeper best picture contender to shake up what is already kind of codifying you know the film is written and directed by cord jefferson i don't know if you know cord i you know i'm friendly with cord uh he comes from the same digital media minds that we do and has become a very successful tv writer and this is his first film so looking forward to seeing

it i mean it's a film i can say the press screening was Don stop laughter, right? Like it, the jokes landed. A lot of it landed very well. I wrote, you know, I wrote a small thing about it somewhere already. I think it's pretty good. Um, and I do predict it to win the audience where we'll just have to see if enough people saw it because it kind of just becomes, it's about what films play the biggest houses. So we'll, we'll see. Okay. Um, well well since we're about to talk about our most anticipated movies of the rest of the year adam is there is there one that you're greatly anticipating that you want to that you haven't seen yet that you want to shout out yeah well i'm obviously dying to see the the david fincher movie you know being a fan of his and having just

you know written a book about him like it's the first movie that he's put out since the the book was published just meaning that it's the first movie that i'm like oh i wish i'd waited right whether i like it or not you know i'm gonna immediately look at it and sort of try and like reconcile it with larger themes or ideas about the director so obviously i i'm excited to see that one and there's a kind of like car crash curiosity i have about this new exorcist movie because i'm just so puzzled by this david gordon green as like the new steward of old horror franchises and i just kind of i just want to see it for myself instead of just assuming it's it's going to be no good it's

going to come up on our list we'll discuss it okay whether amanda is going to go see it is one of the most intriguing questions of 2023 for me personally but um i mean it really it just depends on the calendar and whether you can start buying your movie tickets in the in the right time zone i'll tell that story in the future uh adam thank you so much congratulations on surviving another toronto international film festival um i think people will hear you back on the show and we're talking about the best movies of the year in maybe five or six weeks or maybe even before then if something comes up

is it only in five or six weeks? I mean the first week of December it's already oh no sorry ten weeks ten weeks ten weeks I misspoke

okay calm down yeah I'm here to anger people you know on Reddit anytime you want I'm here to come in and you you know, talk about, you know, obscure foreign language movies that apparently, you know, connote no sense of humor. Sounds good to me. Oh, you know what the thing I want to see more than anything is?

Yeah. The Curse. The Curse, which is the Showtime series with Nathan Fielder and Benny Safdie and Emma Stone that's playing at the NYFF. That's number one by like a mile. I guess it's not a movie but everything's content. That's not a film, Adam.

Come on, for Christ's sake. But everything's content now. Yeah. And it's playing at the New York Film Festival so my vote is The Curse all the way. Okay, Adam.

I'm getting a note from our producer that we need to eject you from the show permanently for recommending a TV show. Thank you so much. Always so nice to see you. It's great to see you, Adam.

It was finally bound to happen. You guys take care. Thanks, Adam. Bye. Okay, we're back. Adam's gone. Thank you to Adam adam truly the best uh i don't want this to be a conversation about all the movies we have seen okay for our purposes in this discussion we did

list all the movies we have already seen so you know some of them are are big right some of them are important films like the zone of interest which adam just mentioned like ferrari like priscilla you know we've talked through some of those. This is really about like, what is a mystery to us? What are we intrigued by? Now, when I originally started brainstorming the list, I did order them in my levels of anticipation. And then I thought that's not collaborative at all. That's no fun. So we're going to negotiate it on the podcast. I think so. I think we're going to say here's what we're most excited about.

So can I say one thing that's happened, like, honestly, since we have been recording? Yes. Because you multitasked and you were editing this document even as you were recording. As always. I am always at work. And we said we weren't going to talk about movies that we've seen. And we're not going to talk about movies that we've seen. And we're not going to talk about movies that we've seen. Right.

Even though you and I only have a few in common. Which is a fun part of this year, I think. Which it is. So, but there was one movie that was just dead on number one on the list. Yes, yes. It's a film called Killers of the Flower Moon. And you went to see it yesterday. I did.

And so you just took it off the list. Now, I am seeing it tomorrow. Uh-huh. our moon and you went to see it yesterday i did and so you just took it off the list now i am seeing it tomorrow and so i guess to to include it in this exercise that is like not fair under the guise of the exercise but i don't know i'm really i'm really looking forward to it and i think for most of our listeners it's top of the list before i I saw it, I think it was, with maybe the exception of being a teenager and anticipating the Star Wars prequels, my most anticipated movie

over a long period of time ever. Because it was 2017 when Marty, Leo DiCaprio, and Robert De Niro publicly expressed interest in adapting David Grand's book. So that's, I think it was October of 17.

Okay. So that's six years that I was thinking about getting a chance to see Killers of the Flower Moon. Now he made The Irishman in between that time, but. Great film. I'm not going to say anything about what I think about it. It is kind of awkward though,

because it did play can, you know, there are, there are a lot of reviews of the film. Like we know what people thought. I didn't really read anything. I didn't want to know anything i as you know i agonized over even seeing the trailers of the movie right and you turned it off right i watched the first one i've seen some stills the first one i watched in full in love the second one i started

to watch and didn't like and didn't want to see anything you didn't like it i just didn't like how it was cut i didn't like how they were presenting the movie all right um but that's a whole other nope that's just for me. Nobody cares about that. Okay. We won't talk about the movie. You're seeing it tomorrow. I am. It's a huge, huge movie.

But I mentioned it just to say we're going to do this exercise. But everyone listening at home has probably not seen any of the movies. Of course.

So we are leaving off Priscilla, Ferrari, Maestro, The Killer, Killers of the Flower Moon, Zone of Interest are leaving off Priscilla, Ferrari, Maestro, The Killer, Killers of the Flower Moon, Zone of Interest, All of Us Strangers, Salt Burn, like, you know,

all of... Poor Things is a huge one. Yeah. The Bike Riders. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of movies that we've seen. And Adam of All, yeah. If you want to hear us

talking about some of those movies, what's good about them without spoiling them, we did talk about them on our episode after the festivals. This is just to say,

like, you at home, you are not invisible. We know you're excited about those. We were too. Then we saw them. Then we also are excited about them, and we're not going to spoil it for you. The majority of those movies are sort of prestige awards films, some of which have commercial upside. But there's a lot of movies on the list we've made here that are commercial plays that we don't know very much about. I basically just did this off the top of my head. Okay. Where would you like to start? You want to pick a movie that you're like, I'm not really that interested in this, so this is number 20. Or do you want to say,

here's my number one movie of the rest of the year that I'm excited about? Let's start with not that interested, you know? Okay. So we can work our way up to optimism. I came in here in a good mood. You did? Yeah, we're like excited about films. You've been doing great lately. Thanks so much. You're working your way back and I'm here for you. Yeah, I feel good today. Okay. Thank you for your support. Okay, you're so welcome. Did you think the Denzel draft was okay? I thought that you were in an incredibly dark place and then Aaron Rogers got injured and I was like, can I get a wellness check on Sean?

Nobody even really knows what's been going on with me. Yeah. Imagine all the other stuff that you know what's going on with me once that happened. It was like, I think Zach and I

took knocks like on a walk. Yeah. And I genuinely think that Chris texted Zach just to be like Aaron Rodgers is hurt

so that then like the phone tree of checking on you and like how are we going to manage this could be activated right and Chris and Zach was like oh no and then I was like okay I I like are we where's Sean where's Eileen like what are we doing yeah um Zach and Chris were very very sweet yeah as was Andy they were all very sweet to me that night on Monday night but then the first time

I saw Chris on Tuesday morning he was like you see what happened to Aaron Rodgers to me as soon as he saw me so that was mean

I'm doing okay the Aaron Rodgers thing I is one more one more moment in my life where I'm like I'm right I'm right to feel the way

I feel about how the world works I am I am absolutely right my cynicism is completely justified and nothing is good and pure I'm right. I'm right to feel the way I feel about how the world works. I am absolutely right. My cynicism is completely justified and nothing is good and pure. No matter what else happens in the world, Sean, at large or to you, it is reassuring to know that you can twist things to feel that you were right. Yeah, Hunter Biden indicted today. I was right. You'll never lose. As long as you have that, I know you're okay. You know what I mean?

That's my true north. Am I right? That's actually the wellness check and you're back. I'm so back. What's the movie you were going to say? Well, you have Dream Scenario up here, which is like another, you know, Nick Cage thought experiment. I'm good. You're not interested? were gonna say well you have dream scenario up here which is like another you know nick cage thought experiment i'm good you're not interested well i mean like i'm if it's funny it's funny it seemed as though and we did not mention this with adam it seems as though it played quite well yeah tiff um this is a kind of charlie kaufman-esque movie from christopher borgely who

made a movie earlier this year called Sick of Myself, which I actually like quite a bit. Right. It's an A24 movie. It is a comedy. Should I read the premise? Go ahead, please. Paul Matthews, a schlubby professor who never made it,

becomes an overnight celebrity after appearing in everyone's dream. So Nick Cage's character has appeared in the dreams of every living human. That's the premise of the movie. Now, you don't really, well, you like being John Malkovich, do you not? Yeah, I do. So you like movies like this? And I like adaptation. And I like, you know, like, I'm sure it'll be good.

But you asked me to start with the thing where I'm just like, shrugging slightly. And it's not because it doesn't sound interesting. It's like I do feel like I have seen some version of all of these things before. Okay. Now, sometimes I really like seeing something that I know and like with a twist in a new and charming way. But you asked me to rank and I'm ranking. So dream scenario is behind the Exorcist colon Believer. Because

The Exorcist strikes me as a uniquely difficult film for you. Yes, but also it's so canon that like it's not

scary anymore. Do you know what I mean? In general, I agree with you about that idea, but not The exorcist. Maybe it's my Catholic upbringing. The exorcist is scary to this day to me.

Yeah, I don't believe it. And I don't ever get scared. I think that I don't believe in the supernatural. You don't believe in the devil. I want you to go on the record here, officially. Does the devil exist? No. Okay.

Well, if the devil exists exists he fucking heard you say it and you're in big trouble i just like yeah i don't i don't really care i don't believe it we're gonna talk about it more we're doing a haunted house episode i can't wait so we're talking about i'm just like you know oh that's not a place of fear like are you more afraid of just like a man with a chainsaw yeah okay yeah okay all all of the weird ghost stuff now obviously the way that like the exorcist is made and and cut and like the possessions etc and like the body snapping back bobby's come on the screen bobby has a thought okay bobby i would just like to point out that in the span of about

Four minutes It went from Sean saying I'm right about everything With regards to the New York Jets To then looking you straight Across the table and saying Do you believe in the devil? Go on the record

I just don't want that moment Yeah have you met us? We're back Bobby You just like ratcheted up The intensity So hardcore right there That was really Do you believe in the devil, Bobby?

I, yeah, I do. You do? Okay. Come on. From an Italian Catholic family? Yeah. Come on. Come on.

I don't know. I guess it's like I- Forefathers hear me saying that I don't believe in the devil. Yeah, maybe it's that I'm missing that like deep generational Catholic upbringing. Do you feel that you live with guilt, the weight of guilt in your life? Yes, of course. Okay. Okay. Well, that's a very Catholic. Yeah, but that isn't related to the devil. Like the devil isn't all of us. Well, is that the devil's playtime is when you're feeling that you can't outsource it. You're

personally responsible for it. Like that's the issue. Oh god i'm really sorry wow that's like borderline maga that's actually quite dangerous that idea i don't know what to tell you no maga is you're responsible for your own well-being it's not the system no but maga is just being like i didn't do anything wrong it was the devil you know okay just some made-up being inhabited a child and then we're coming back to this after you join me to watch the film the exorcist believer also the number of like when both our children were in the like five month to nine month phase of existence where their control of their body is evolving, but definitely can be unnatural. And there was like a real exorcist element into the way they would move around, you know?

And it's also just made it less scary for me. I'm just like, well, that's just how babies move. Okay. This is a very strong take from one of our foremost Bible scholars that there is no devil. I mean, I would have to go back. So the thing about when we talk about the Bible is then like some people, like biblical scholars listen to this podcast and they weigh in. A number of clergy men and women.

I know, and they're wonderful. And I don't want to disrespect their knowledge, but I am a little bit like, is devil text based text based you know in like in the cloud bible like are they on whatsapp no no no is the devil on whatsapp are you on whatsapp i'm not nor am i um now as your communication is the devil in the bible yes the devil does yeah where um i don't know which books but yeah there's the idea of like the fallen angel but okay what i'm saying is that that is in shit i gotta google okay paradise lost which john is it john milton yeah but that is not in the bible that's added later that's 1500s i is i think the 1600s 1667 i'm googling that's the idea of satan arrives in

no i think that it arrives somewhere else but i'm almost positive the idea of satan is in the bible i don't know whether it is i think it's all new testament i'm almost positive is it in revelation they never taught us i don't i don't know what book it's in. It's not in the Gospels. I'm almost positive it's in the New Testament. I'm just, I'm literally, okay, Wikipedia. Satan, also known as the devil, and sometimes also Lucifer is in Christianity. Okay, hold on. Hebrew Bible. Well, in the book of Job, he appears as the partner of God.

There we go. Who on behalf of God puts the righteous one to the test. Okay. So, yes. New Testament, Gospels. Oh, of course. He tempts Jesus in the desert. Okay.

All right. All right. All right. See, this is now, you're undermining your biblical historicity, you know? As I was saying, I'm not all knowing. Should we have Bobby cut this out for your own sake? Are you willing to be vulnerable to this? Live Googling. I'm willing to be vulnerable. Because this is what the devil

does. The devil makes you think that the devil is a construct from John Milton and not a core text in the word of God. The angel falling from heaven is in fact from John Milton. So I just wanted to explore. And I said that I needed to Google because I'm not an expert like the many clergy people who listen to this podcast. It's been a while since I read the New Testament. And here we are. We learned from Wikipedia. I think you should consider running to be the next pope. Given your expertise.

And her love for Italy. It could be a nice relocation. That's a really good point. Really nice real estate in Rome. More of a Rome thing. Yeah. Vatican City close a nice relocation. That's a really good point. It's really nice real estate in Rome. More of a Rome thing. Yeah. Vatican City close to Rome, not so close to Venice. Rome is wonderful.

I like it. I like it. I've been. You go, you just are fixated on the heat. Just don't go in August. I visited Cinecitta. Yeah, that's amazing. That's cool.

Where Marcello Mastroianni was filming. Rome's an amazing city. I'd love to be based there. I think I could get on board with the robe lifestyle and cool shoes, you know, and the little hats. Okay, we're moving on. What's another film? You want me to pick one? Yeah.

The vibes were bad on Pain Hustlers coming out of the Toronto International Film Festival. This is the new movie from David Yates starring Chris Evans and Emily Blunt. And this is a movie, I believe, about the opioid crisis and those who were selling opioids to America. There've been a lot of projects around this story. There was the Michael Keaton series on Hulu. There's a Netflix Peter Berg series right now going.

There've been a lot of documentaries about this story. This one is framed as a kind of like pain and gain or big short-esque presentation of like the outsized characters that were powering this moment in history. The reviews are bad. Yeah. I mean, were you really expecting this to be like a searing insight into the continuing opioid crisis? No, but in the parlance of Bill Simmons, I have Emily Blunt season tickets. So do I. So I wanted it to be good. And those season tickets have taken me through some not great movies and some great movies, you know? You can't pick every single one correctly.

Unless you're Leonardoonardo caprio i guess that's true okay well pain hustlers would be pretty low on my list next goal wins now this is um the new film from taika waititi whose uh stature as a world filmmaker has been diminished pretty significantly in the last five years yeah there was a time when he was very near the top of the most exciting auteurs working in the world. And his last few movies have been very poorly received. And he has become much more famous. And I think that that has really worked against him

in a lot of ways. This movie was filmed in 2019. It's about a soccer team. Sorry, I was just thinking about the little children collecting metal for Hitler and Jojo Rabbit. That's a real movie that was made. I'm not a fan of that movie. Neither were you.

We were not fans of that movie. At the time, I think people were like, oh, you're too hard on Jojo Rabbit. It's like, Jojo Rabbit, that was wildly ill-conceived. No. This one stars Michael Fassbender. It was made a long time ago. It has apparently gone through a number of kind of reimaginings and reshoots. Didn't they have to reshoot all of it to cut Army Hammer out of the film?

The rumor is that there was an entire storyline that not just related to Army Hammer, but something else about the approach of the film. This is just speculation, but that it was entirely cut. Right. The movie played okay at TIFF. It seemed like the critics who were mad or big mad, and some were more warm towards it. It's a Fox Searchlight movie. I mean, this is one of the most dependable studios

in the last 20 years in America. So I'm not going to write it off completely, but it doesn't really feel like my cup of tea. It's a little bit of like a very self-conscious attempt to recreate the kind of feel-good sports dramedy of the late 90s, and I'm not so sure. Will you see it?

I will see it. Okay. I see movies for this podcast. You are more interested in that film than Dream Scenario. Sometimes you want to see... I mean, this is a bad sentence to say out loud, but when something has gone that wrong, sometimes you kind of want to see what's going on. You're the reason that we have traffic in America,

because you're a rubbernecker. I know. That's why I was like, I'm going to actually adjust my sentence to not be like, sometimes you want to see a train wreck because you don't actually want to see a train wreck, but you do want to see how poor, like the movie that they cut to shreds and then recut and held for four years. And is it bad for Michael Fassbender that this movie is opening the week after The Killer is released on Netflix, or is it good? Michael Fassbender lives in Portugal and races cars. And then on his downtime, he's like, sure, I'll be in a David Fincher movie. Michael Fassbender is doing fine and doesn't care.

Have you read much about Ava DuVernay's new film? I've read a little bit. This is another movie that premiered at Venice. Venice, that's the film festival I went to, at Venice after I left. And so I wasn't able to see it. And it seems interesting. Yeah. So it's based on a nonfiction book called Cast, The Origins of Our Discontents that Isabel Wilkerson wrote. And in attempting to adapt it, Ava DuVernay turned the film essentially into the story of Isabel Wilkerson's life. Right. Casting Anjanue Ellis, wonderful actor.

If you saw King Richard, you know what a talented performer she is. And John Bernthal, among other people people and it sort of takes us through the idea of a caste system and racial bias and the way that people of color experience the world neither of us have seen it obviously I would say mixed reviews it's received thus far and it's been a long time I think since David DuVernay has made a movie that I've been excited about she has worked in some done some tv series that I thought were cool, but the Wrinkle in Time situation, that was like a real, are we sure this is going to work?

I also, at this point, feel that the journalist telling the story of how they came to write the story as an adaptation move is a little bit tired. On the other side, Angelina Wallace is amazing, is a little bit tired on the other side. Mm-hmm. Angelina Wallace is amazing.

So, I think that she can probably do with it, um, do more with it than, say, like, a phone-dead TV show to, you know,

not to call out Anna Delvey or whatever, but, that's just, I don't know, we've been doing a lot of that. Uh, interesting cast in this movie.

Vera Farmiga, Audra McDonald, Niecy Nash-Betz, Nick Offerman, Blair Underwood, the brutally underused Blair Underwood, Jasmine Sifa Jones. Interesting. We'll see. I mean, I'm curious about it, but I did read a couple of reviews that had me slightly concerned. Okay. I just want to say you have Wonka really high here on this list. So that's my train wreck.

Oh, okay. So I thought you were going to go a different direction. Wonka is a trailer that I did see because I went to the movies and they showed it. Have you seen the Paddington films? Yes, but only without sound on an airplane because my son wanted to watch them. And then we put it on and nox just started saying woof woof and i was like well that's a bear he knows the sound he knows what sound bears make what did i make it's it's really really good we gotta do amanda's animal sounds that's like an

audiobook that would be really good uh paul king the director of paddington and paddington 2 well so when i directed... Directed Wonka. So everyone lost their mind when the Wonka trailer debuted at Comic-Con and was like, what a disaster. Was it at Comic-Con? Not Comic-Con. What's the other one? Cinema-Con.

I don't know. It's all the same. All right. They're not, but all right. Continue. Cinema-Con. Yep. And everyone was like, what has happened to our beautiful Timothee Chalamet?

And this is a disaster. I don't know. It looks like they made a movie for children. It looks fine. Like children need movies too. You think you're being nice, but you're being really rude. Well, both can be true. They made a movie for children.

What's very interesting. We have children. We do. Well, I don't know if this is what I want Alice to. I don't want her to experience cinema like this. Knox loves musicals. He watches Sesame Street now. And when they stop singing, he says more because he wants them to keep singing. So maybe he'll love Wonka. Sesame Street is elite.

Yeah. Truly elite. I've learned so much about how vegetables are grown. Cookie and Gonger, man. Gonger? I know. They're just getting after it. They made cauliflower rice this morning.

Yeah, this is where quinoa comes from. Can you believe it? But I didn't know Veggie burgers This is how we make them I learned how they farm cinnamon Yeah it's amazing Tremendous stuff

Genuinely great show The thing with Wonka is I don't think most people know what you just said Which is that it's a musical There are no songs in the trailer There's no Timothee Chalamet singing in the trailer So because of that I think there's a little bit of a false situation here now paul

king is talented at making these kinds of movies for kids but it looks like it could be bad the other thing is that the original is very dear to me and i think a lot of and i want gen x i want to tell you right now no one's taking it away from you and also if you tried to show it to alice right now i think she would start weeping it's a deranged movie never eat a blueberry again it is a wonderfully deranged movie that's actually a blueberry is what's powering us day to day so that is a perfect aileen and i were having a conversation last night yeah about how um beetle beetlejuice 2 is happening okay and how crazy that is and how weird but how much i love beetlejuice and i was like beetlejuice that's the kind of movie that like

is not on the rewatchables that is really like a me movie that's like something i really liked i really liked as a kid the same way bill was like cobra mattered to me when i was 19 or whatever i'm like beetlejuice mattered to me you're gonna go to the touring show uh i'm not will you behave yourself no i'm not interested in that. No, I know that story. But Willy Wonka is another example of a movie that will never appear

on the rewatchables but that is just immensely rewatchable. I mean, I've seen it so many times. And probably in the has not aged well corridor

is a movie about a sociopath. Yes. As opposed to a young boy who's trying to have his dreams come true because Gene Wilder is such a genius. I wonder if this movie will have any of that edge. I feel like probably not.

No, it seems like the point is that it doesn't have the edge unless your child won't start crying. Okay. And maybe you'll be weirded out, but the kid will just be like, I don't know, he makes candy and sings. I think because movies like Dune Part 2 have moved to next year,

there is like a lot of weight on its shoulders in terms of box office. Like it's one of the biggest movies. Is it the biggest movie that's opening this winter? Well, you have a lot of honorable mentions down here. I mean, the Marvels and Aquaman are obviously comic book movies, the second Aquaman film. So there's a lot riding on those. But beyond that...

Rebel Moon Part 1, that's the Snyder movie? That's a Netflix film, though. Okay. Not opening. I mean, if it opens in theaters, it'll be shortly. That is going to be a big movie, though. I mean, that movie is... I know you don't care about this, but I'm going to keep saying it.

I don't know. He wanted to make Star Wars, but he wasn't invited. So he made Star Wars. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And you know what? I think what we've learned from the most recent

spate of content is that everyone should get a chance to make their own Star Wars movie because everyone loves it. Well, I think if you're being generous to Zack Snyder

you can say whoever is in charge of making Star Wars stuff right now should not be. Okay. Because of the way that a lot of their stuff has been received.

Ahsoka, I'm not watching it so I'm not weighing in on that I think now is the time to talk about Taylor Swift the heiress tour let's talk about it this is the first time we've discussed it on this podcast that's true and really the first time we've talked about it in real life there was yesterday I sent you a text message we you know been doing a lot of planning, trying to see all the movies. And I texted Sean to make sure he knew that he had to see it with me. Like I have to be seated next to you. Right. So I'll put this right on, on the table. Yeah. Me, my name is Sean fantasy. I'm not a fan of Taylor Swift. Yeah, we know. I've made this clear in the past. I realized that I now stand on an Island of one that the entire world has come around on Taylor Swift.

Yeah, but can I tell you, can I give you an interesting point in my journey? Certainly. Which is, it's now gotten to the everyone is on my island and I only like early period Taylor Swift. You've gone punk with Taylor. Yeah, which is an absurd position to be on and is counterproductive. And it's to the whole Taylor Swift experience.

But I don't know. It's like I was there for Red. You know what I mean? I saw that tour twice. And now all you guys are like, I planned my whole summer on Eris. And yes, Bobby, I'm looking at you. Welcome to what we built. Hold on.

So that you could. wait a damn second i've been there since the very beginning okay as a swifty my swifty card is all right because you were like has remained active and that's fine and i think that's good and i i saw um our pal brian raftery last night who who did our vietnam show and he was talking about just like the truly life-affirming experience that he had taking his children to the Heiress Tour. And that sounded wonderful. And I am sort of sad that I missed that experience. So I'm excited to go with you.

Here are my concerns about the Taylor Swift Heiress Tour. Can I just give a little context for the film before you share your concerns? Sure. The film is coming out on October 13th. You think people listening need context? Yeah, I think all my Letterboxd bros might want to hear about what's going on with movies because they may not know that Taylor Swift planted her flag in the middle of October, which is a very important month for movies.

Yes. And said, basically, like, get out of my way. And she did something very unusual, which Matt Bellany has written about and talked about on his show, where she negotiated a deal directly with the movie theaters to release the film. She's not using a studio. Incredibly savvy move. I mean, really smart. And she, you know, her and her team are always very smart about these things. She's such a success because she does things like, I don't need the marketing department of Universal Pictures to sell my movie.

I'm me. I have my social media, which is more than enough. So all of the films that were set to be released on October 13th quickly vacated within a day. Yeah. That release date. The Exorcist movie, one of the most legendary movies of all time,

its fourth film in the series, moved up a week so that it could get the number one at the box office before the Taylor film comes in. The pre-sales for the film are extraordinarily high. There's massive anticipation,

even amongst people who actually went to the tour. This is a two-hour and 40-minute concert movie. Can I just say something? Yes. Which is like, if all your Letterboxd bros

are Letterboxd bros and claim to care about movies that much and didn't read one piece or piece of news about this which was like a huge thing that happened in movie business you guys are sexist that's all and we can keep moving okay this is your own concern um i'm not interested in that debate but what are the things that worry you about taylor swift the Eros tour? Well, I mean, they're just personal issues. I'm really excited to go because I didn't get to go to the actual Eros tour.

Okay. And I do like Taylor Swift. Number one, I don't really care about the most recent albums that much. Okay. With the exception of the Bon Iver song, which absolutely rules. Have you heard that one? No, I haven't heard it. And then I am

concerned, and Bobby, you can confirm this. I actually haven't read a lot about the set list, so I'm excited to discover, but I am assuming that she performs the 10-minute version of All Too Well. She does, yes. I don't think that's a spoiler to say. The 10-minute version of All Too Well is one of the most upsetting things that has happened in the pop culture space to me in the last five years. The original All Too Well is a perfect song. I listened to it again last night on my drive home from dinner. I was just like, you know what? It's time to put this on and sing along.

What a perfect, perfect song. And then she just added five minutes of garbage because she's like, what people need are like my unedited scraps. No, we don't. It's so upsetting. Okay. I've never heard the song. You've never? I was wondering this actually.

So you've never even heard the original. Maybe in like a Target. I think that you should listen to it before we go. The original, not the 10 minute version because then you will be able to understand my anger when she's just like chanting sacred prayer over and over again for two minutes and i like and i will just be like this was perfect and you ruined it much like the theme of the song so in that sense it's a great meta performance whenever people start talking about taylor swift and her

songs i want to put my head in a vice like there's that's why i'm not interested i'm like i thought that was a i thought you just cooked that was great thanks thanks so much appreciated how clear it was understood exactly what you meant but the whole time i was like why is this the most popular thing in the world this is so crazy Anyway, we'll get into that more when we talk about the movie. I'll probably be able to more clearly illuminate my thoughts.

And you know what? Maybe I'll like it. I don't think that you will, but we'll have fun. It's going to be an interesting contrast to Stop Making Sense because Stop Making Sense

was going to be the concert movie event of the fall. It's being re-released in September by A24. It's been rem-released in September by A24. It's been remastered in 4K. I think all three of us are getting a chance to see it

in the very near future, which is very exciting. It is one of my favorite movies of all time. I'm sure I've talked about it on the pod. Yours too. Mine too. Yeah, we've talked about it before. Rob Barvilla is going to come on the show. We're going to talk about our favorite concert movies.

Should be a really fun episode. But now I feel like it kind of got like pushed out of the box a little bit because the Taylor movie is going to make like $180 million. Well, that's okay. I mean, they're different things. They are. We can have both. Okay.

And we can be excited about Stop Making Sense, you know, and Arrange Child Care so everyone gets to go on their date. And then we can also go see Taylor Swift Eiress Tour and be connected to the next generation. We can also see Travis Scott perform in Agro Drift. Yeah. Another concert film by Harmony Korine shot entirely in infrared. Sure. I think the Heiress Tour movie is going to be one of the most insane movie theater experiences that I will ever have. I know, that's what Sean and I...

I think people are truly going to treat it like the concert. After we finish recording, we have to... Buy tickets. Buy tickets. We have to buy tickets buy tickets we have to plan do you think that we should bring friendship bracelets to the movie sure did you take friendship bracelets do you know about this and you trade bracelets at the yeah at the airport but what if like a you know like what happened to our society why when did everyone become 11 years old i think actual 11 11-year-olds are doing this.

That was support. I was going to say to you, it's like, what if we go to Burbank or Glendale and there are a bunch of 11-year-olds trading friendship bracelets? Well, that's wonderful. And they offer you one and you have nothing to give them. You think an 11-year-old wants to offer me a friendship bracelet? I guess they don't. That would be creepy to you. But what if they offer me one and I don't have it?

This is like my Halloween fear, like times a thousand. The worst thing that could happen. You sound insane. The worst thing that could happen on Halloween is that you don't have any candy and a little child in a costume knocks on your door and you have to say, I'm so sorry, I don't have any candy. So you have, I didn't study for my test nightmares about Halloween. Imagine telling a small robot that you don't have any candy for them.

An actual robot? No, a small child dressed as a robot. I got to say, you're really weird. That's something you're nervous about? Just go to the CVS and get some candy. I do, every year. And remember when I lived in the hills and we never got a trick-or-treater and I just feasted on the leftover Halloween candy. But the idea of one small child being like, please, sir, may I have some candy?

And I don't have any candy to give them. Do you live in 18th century London? What are you talking about? You could just tell those kids that you don't believe in Halloween because the devil's not real. That's a good point. And it's their fault. That's you don't believe in halloween because the devil's not real that's a good point it's their fault that's right i believe in candy guys i'm having a really hard time with nox's halloween costume this year because well no because i mean i have like one idea but it's like my dorky a minute idea and

then that's like maybe i should let him be a kid. But he doesn't understand when Halloween is. And he also won't wear anything on his head. So that's really limiting any animal options, which he knows what a dog is. He doesn't really know what a dinosaur is. Can I suggest a costume for Knox? Yeah. Satan? No. He's lovely.

Okay. We'll come back to Taylor. There's going to be a'll come back to Taylor. There's going to be a lot to say about Taylor. I think that I am probably going to bring a couple of friendship bracelets just in case, just so I don't have a Halloween situation. Just in case some young girls

who are more excited about seeing the movie than ever want to take their time out from hanging out with their friends to offer you a friendship bracelet. You trade friendship bracelets with everyone around you. Like, that's the whole exercise. Cool.

It's actually a nice thing. What if Alice went to a concert and then made friends? I'd say love what you love. friendship bracelets with everyone around you like that's the whole exercise cool it's it's actually a nice thing what if alice went to a concert and then made love what you love i respected and traded friendship bracelets and you would yeah that sounds really lovely one year old man they're like the 40 year old you're 41 year old men in the world who are just like i'm crying because the new taylor album is out that she re-recorded i'm like guys just like walk off a bridge what are you talking about get it together Hold it together for crying out loud. I think that's a valid position. Okay. Thank you. But I am preparing for my own experience. Okay. And I don't want to not be able to exchange friendship bracelets with children. Even at my like most pathetic idolatry, I'm not

like falling to my knees crying because there's a new song on Spotify. Like that sort of thing is like quite weird. I don't know. When the Kanye Good Fridays thing was happening, like that was just me texting my friends. This is dope. Twitter existed. And you guys were like, oh, while they got a little bit and that's fine. It was a different it was a different time. That was a good time. And you're not responsible for anything that's happened since. It's just like, don't forget what that moment was like. I'm on the record about all that stuff. It's fine. You can go through my research.

I'm not accusing you of anything. I am just saying that there was an energy there, you know? That happened to me. That happened at me. Okay. That's how I feel about all that stuff. Okay. Well, then just like, why don't you

let it happen at young women who are discovering themselves and discovering the power of music? I'm not taking it away from them. I'm not taking their friendship bracelets from them. I'm saying for me. We could get like a million views on a YouTube video of me and Amanda teaching you how to be a Swifty for this movie.

Like, just putting you through like a training montage with lyric sheets teaching you how to sing along to the different songs. It would conclude with that video of that Russian politician doing that shot of poison

and killing himself. I mean, that's how it would end. What will you wear to the Heiress Tour movie? Two-piece bathing suit. I'm going to wear a pair of green pants and a blue button down like i wear every fucking day what do you expect okay what do you think i should wear i would what should i wear should i wear a beer helmet she doesn't give guidelines right like beyonce no she doesn't

give like specific guidelines but a lot of people took it as like I dressed up as an era. Oh, that's right. And clothing that goes along with how she sort of dressed in that different era. Plaid shirt days, you know? You're going to wear a hat?

Should you wear like a big top hat? Yeah. For the red era? Yeah. I'm going to dress up like Super Mario. I'm going to have

like big red overalls on and a tool belt. No, I'll like do that. Big wrench in my hand. Am I in the right movie? You just sit there in silence for two hours and 40 minutes. When does the movie start?

for the Super Mario Bros movie to start? Oh, man. Let's talk about some other movies, okay? Okay. Are you going to go see The Creator? So, thank you for talking about this with me in a public space. So, what? We have to make content.

As you said, we're back. You know what? We're back. You're nuts and we're back. Yeah. Well, I find the trailer very upsetting. Yeah, sure. Because that child, it's a robot child, but it needs.

That film's about my daughter. It needs love, too. so you think that the the creator baby is a swifty probably what if like the big emotional climax of the creator is like the creator baby just like blasting speak now to defeat the enemies all too well too well. This is a new science fiction film from Gareth Edwards, who directed Rogue One and Godzilla. Yes. And it stars John David Washington, who I'm a big fan of. And it seems emotionally manipulative and also, but like fully conceptually realized, at least in the trailer. It's a good trailer. It looks really good.

It's an effective trailer. It looks really good. So I'm torn between being really interested in supporting John David Washington and original movies and also emotional pain. It struck me as a good use of his talents. I'm not seeing it till next week. I don't want to say there's like a lot riding on this movie, but an original science fiction story with a big budget is something that we don't get very often. I felt like this kind of intrinsic desire to support it even if it's not good which is a weird thing that i have to deal with in my life right but um i'm very i'm very interested in this movie um i can't say for sure whether it's going

to be great but i you know it's also a movie about ai and obviously that's a pretty meaningful discussion point in our world right now i'm out out on that generally, but yes, it's quote unquote timely. What do you think about the fact that MI7, Heart of Stone, and the creator are all driving towards that issue? Oh, MI7, right. I didn't like that part of the plot, as you recall. I thought it was nonsense. But hey, I went by the palace where they throw that weird AI party every day in Venice. It's right there, just on the water there for you. I just, right where Tom Cruise is running so beautifully,

saw it, thought of him. Did you stab anyone on that bridge? I didn't. I told you, I thought about going to that bridge, but then I had to see another bridge and it was too crowded. You know what's so crazy? Barbie is already available on VOD and I don't think Mission Impossible 7 is coming out for like two more months on VOD. They just misread the entire landscape. It was a big mistake. It's a shame. It was a big mistake.

We didn't mention Leave the World Behind in our last sort of conversation about the Oscars, power rankings. Right. This is like the big mystery of the year. Right, and it's's opening the AFI Fest here in Los Angeles in November. Yes. This is Sam Esmail's

second feature film. Right. Our friend Sam. Last year at the AFI Fest was The Fablemans? Well, Fablemans had done Toronto as well. What premiered?

Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio. Oh, that's right. Child Papa. I was there. My wife and I were at that screening with Guillermo. So that is like a, that's the last kind of big premiere spot for the Oscar season. I mean, I couldn't be more excited for this film. And I want to know nothing about it.

Same. Haven't read the book. Julia Roberts, Mahershala Ali, Ethan Hawke. And our friend, Sam Esmail. And Sam wrote and directed it, adapted it. And spent a lot of time picking the house. Very excited about it. It's pretty high on my list,

in part because there's nothing out there about it. It's not one of these movies where it's like 9,000 people saw it at TIFF. A lot of people saw May, December at Cannes. And now it is showing once again at the New York Film Festival at the end of this month. This is the new film from Todd Haynes, Natalie Portman,

Julianne Moore, and Charles Melton in Riverdale fame. A film that is sort of seems somewhat inspired by the Mary Kay Letourneau story but played as like kind of an arch melodrama. Todd Haynes maybe

closer to his far from heaven style of filmmaking, a little different from where he's been the last few years. Todd, I think has been on this show three, maybe even four times. One of my absolute favorite filmmakers and my favorite people to talk to.

This movie's gonna be on Netflix, I think on December 1st. That sounds right. It's a lot of movies, like every week on Netflix. I mean, We'll Leave the World Behind is gonna be on Netflix December 8th. This is what they do.

This is what they do. Did you see they acquired the Anna Kendrick film out of TIFF as well? I did see that. I mean, they had a majority of the films at the Venice Film Festival because I think, especially with the strike and promotion, they're the only place that's just kind of their their release model is slightly different the the way that they rely on promotion is slightly different sometimes to our chagrin um because it seems like people aren't as aware of these things but right now it's a pretty wide lane and so it's just netflix so they also just every year release a huge number of movies and they start at the festivals and then the rest of the world has to wait like four months and sees them in November and December. And I don't know

whether that's always the most effective Oscar strategy. It's a good, it's a really good question. I've been thinking about it a lot because the paths are kind of cleared in many ways for Netflix, Amazon, Apple this year in terms of being able to get their movies out into the world the way they want to. And in terms of the Oscar race, I think that they benefit from the strikes in a perverse way. Right. But they have an incredible succession of movies coming out.

Every single week is an anticipated awards movie for about 10 weeks. And you're right. Maybe in some cases, that's good. Maybe in some cases, that's not so good. Maybe things get lost. Maybe people move on. We saw the power of something like Oppenheimer playing for weeks and weeks in movie theaters and implanting itself into the minds of Academy voters and just the general movie going audience, of course. I'm quite curious what it means when

you get The Killer closely followed by May, December, closely followed by Leave the World Behind after you've released the Wes Anderson short, after you've released Rustin,

after you've released Nyad. Don't forget Maestro. Maestro at the end of December. So that's a lot of heavyweight stuff. Nevertheless,

new Todd Haynes movie, so that's exciting. It's playing at the Newport Beach Film Festival on Sunday night. Would you like to go? No. Do you think you're going to go?

If it were Saturday night, I would think about whether I could get a family beach trip out of it. On Saturday night, I'm actually seeing a movie that's on this list, which is called Dumb Money, which is opening in limited release on the 15th. Today, Friday the 15th. And playing for two weeks in limited release and then opening wide on September 29th. This is the new film that chronicles the kind of GameStop trading controversy starring Paul Dano, Seth Rogen, Nick Offerman, Pete Davidson. Who else is in that movie? A lot of people. Directed by Craig Gillespie

who made I, Tonya who made the Cruella film. Not my favorite director in the world, honestly. But this is a garbage cash movie. Yeah. I'm excited for Garbage Cash.

Me too. I'm excited for this film as well. I'm seeing it next week. I'm looking forward to it. I love Paul Dano, as you know. It's obviously a very interesting story what transpired.

I can't believe that this movie's already here. You know? It feels like it came fast. Because that GameStop, you know, fiasco happened, like,

right in the middle of COVID, and I just remember, I have such, like, a sense memory of watching all this go down while never leaving my home, and it feels very close and also like a world away. I mean, you know, time and life are strange. Great insights from Amanda Dobbins on this podcast.

But it does seem like it happened fast. I don't know if this is an Academy film, but it could be just entertaining. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to that. Okay, we're coming back. Amanda's been shoveling gummy bears in her mouth. Just one. Just one. And it wasn't a bear. I think it was a snake.

I bought this package of gummies in the Paris Charles de Gaulle airport on my layover while watching a video that Austin Butler made for a YSL fragrance play on loop for like two and a half hours. It was a really disorienting time. Interesting. Thanks for sharing all that. Let's talk about the last couple of movies.

We're down to the end here. By the way, you just completely abandoned a ranking system here. Did I? Or have I been doing it all in my head while we've been discussing things? Or did the list I made here, is it perfect? Well, you're not presenting the list you made in order.

Well, we'll get to the end of the pod. Where's it? Why don't we have a trailer for Anyone But You? This is a great question. This is the new Glenn Powell, Sidney sweeney rom-com old-fashioned old school two young stars let's put them together and let sparks fly rom-com so it's released in december and we have trailers for we have an aquaman trailer which releases the week after anyone but you which i believe is december 15th we just got it today, and I don't think anyone's feeling good about it.

No. Right. It's not on my list, Aquaman 2. Yeah. Actually, I enjoyed the first Aquaman quite a bit, and I like James Wan as the filmmaker, but the things at DC are in a difficult spot right now. So, is everyone, is there like a trailer committee for Cabal where they're all sitting in a room and being like- I'm vice chairman, yeah.

No, you're not. Yeah, I am. Because I don't think you're making decisions on when they're releasing trailers. And that's what I'm asking. Are they all coordinating and deciding, okay, you can have this day, you can have this day? Are they at war against each other? Is it like a duplicity situation? I think it's Hunter Biden, Kevin McCarthy, Nancy Pelosi is there,

Clarence Thomas, he serves. I assume they're waiting for a window. Okay. No, Euphoria is not coming back anytime soon.

until at least next year. But probably more like 25. I guess they're waiting for, well. Well, we discussed Hitman earlier. Right.

And Hitman currently, despite it being very widely praised at Venice and TIFF, does not have a distribution. It has not sold anywhere. So I don't, that movie would be pretty high on our list here. But I wonder if Glenn Powell having another movie is a good thing or a bad thing. If anyone acquires it, would they try to rush it out this year? Would they look at it more as a, like if it's not an Oscar movie movie is it more of a spring or summer movie i'm not really right you've got to

think that glenn powell's and and sydney sweeney's availability to promote these movies it like whether they do it together or separately because they they got that part of the marketing down um intentionally or not you're saying they're alleged well Well, that was a week of coverage of that movie. So I thought that was perfectly played, whether they meant to or not. But you have to figure that their availability to promote is factoring into when this movie is released. I mean, would you release this movie

if they can't make any appearances? That's a really good question i'm not sure if glenn is like necessarily fully moving the needle but sydney sweeney probably is right because she has such a and impassioned following he is he is great on press tour so once you get him out there you know he's awesome so i wonder if that's part of the reason we haven't seen the trailer. You think it might get pushed? Well, it's scheduled for December now.

Can I tell you the vibe in Hollywood right now? Yeah, I was going to say, we haven't done a strike check-in in a while. Just on the handful of conversations I've had this week, everybody's just like, this isn't happening until January. Yeah, that's really bad. You know, that's not reporting.

That's idle speculation from people I've talked to. But that's three months from now and there's a lot that's going to happen in the world that's a long time for people to be not working right um so hopefully that's not the case but a movie like this is actually kind of an interesting test case because i think you're 100 right you really want to have your young stars promoting the movie especially if they're having an alleged affair. That actually helps is seeing them canoodle on the red carpet. I don't know. Would I release it? Probably not. Yeah. I don't think I would either. But I also want to see it. I desperately want to see it. But I also want them to get to have their moment. I mean, first of all, you just can't sell a rom-com without the stars. You know like you need to be invested in the two people

when you walk into the theater when you watch you've got mail do you think about how exciting it is that tom hanks and meg ryan have had sex like is that something that you think about when you're you know loving a movie like that okay are you asking me whether i'm thinking about the actors yeah yeah okay no like what well because what's what sydney sweeney and glenn powell are doing is is feels weirdly unique no it doesn't well the biggest rom-coms the idea of these people getting together is exciting but you're not like in real life they boned this is more like a mr mrs smith situation oh i see yeah okay where it's like the real life and the is it going to reflect on the thing with a little bit of like don't worry darling thrown in of just like what's that tap like tabloid like zapruder readings of everything that's that's going on and people denying things. But I think that brings in energy.

But also, it's not that, it's not that you're speculating about whether the stars have had sex in real life always, but if you don't believe in the chemistry, if it's not apparent,

like, pretty much instantly, or at least in a trailer, then it's not going to work in a romantic comedy. What rom-com pairing had the most heat between them? The most like sexual chemistry?

You can't say Spencer Tracy and Catherine Hepburn or Bogie and Bacall. No, no, no, I know. Not people who actually were together. I'm thinking through it. I mean, that's kind of not

what it is. That's what I'm saying. That's what feels different. Yeah. Because anyone but you is being framed as like kind of traditional rom-com structure.

Two people who kind of like each other and then all of a sudden they find themselves together, right? That's what's going to happen. Right. So the idea of like these people fuck is kind of a revolution. Yes, it is. Like is there even an indication of sex in You've Got Mail? No, but the Nora Ephron movies in particular. Like I'm thinking through.

There's plenty of sex in Nancy Meyers' movies. It's just sex of people over 40. And so then it's almost played for laughs. Good representation though. Congratulations to you that you're in that box now. But you know what? Now you understand why representation matters. I think I'm the exact age of Dr. Keanu Reeves.

Is he 41 in that movie? I honestly have no idea. He's so wonderful in that movie. It's really important. It's the right choice that she doesn't choose him, but with every year that I age, it gets harder. Didn't ask for rewatchables about that movie. Well, I'm never going to get a real one.

You might. You might. Bill tried to give away uh diane keaton's oscar nomination for that movie on the lost in translation pack i heard i thought that i felt for you i thought that was rude um no i think that there there are plenty of rom-coms with i think probably all the mcconaughey kate hudson ones have like undertones of that and then all of the a lot of the Ryan Reynolds ones this is the proposal serious you're taking any questions I have asked on this pod including do you believe in Satan I was very clear that I don't really

believe in Satan I know you were flip about it and now you're like you are you are Oppenheimer right now I don't listening to proposals I don't get an opportunity to talk about this with anyone ever, you know? So I just, I have to take, seize the moment, you know? I'm living out loud. So it's just more that my, like, I also really like the Richard Curtis rom-coms, but they don't. No sex in those movies. Yeah, they don't have. Four Weddings is a little horny. Yeah, but like don't have sex in those. Yeah. They don't have four weddings is a little horny.

Yeah. But like on the, but not the Hugh Grant character. It's like all the other people are, are, um, part of the problem is that he doesn't really know how to have sex. And when he and Annie McDowell do have sex,

it's like, it's pretty British and awkward. Okay. Um, working girl. Mm. There's, you know,

Harrison Ford's bringing it a little little is that a rom-com sort of not totally it's not like in the pure sense okay but i'm just you you asked a question and i'm here to free associate with you how do i pivot this conversation to the film the color purple can that be done I'm usually good at transitions do you think the color from red to purple well no

I was gonna say do you think the color purple will be released purple is another word I just have a very hard time saying the double R purple purple

purple is Alice's favorite color yeah I do think it will be released okay I do think it's a very very strong contender I think I mentioned this

when we talked about our trips to Venice and Telluride that there's not a movie that is at all like this that is in the Oscar race right now. I guess maybe Wonka to some extent because of the musical quality, but the story that's being told, performers in the movie, our expectations around it. For me, contemporary musicals, I just have been really struggling with. And so for the same doubts I have about Wonka, I kind of have about The Color Purple.

But it is a big movie. I think it's a huge movie for Warner Brothers. There's a lot of expectation around that cast. Fantasia Barrino, this is easily her biggest lead role that she's ever had

as an OG American Idol guy. OG. We know. We read the AIM chats. Yeah. I was, thank you so much for your support. Vibe.com. Shout out.

2006. Me and John Caramonica. We were both very into Fantasia. She was an electric performer. I mean, this cast is absolutely stacked. Read it off. Fantasia Barrino. Taraji P. Henson.

Danielle Brooks. Coleman Domingo. Corey Hawkins. Her. Ciara. An, Taraji P. Henson, Danielle Brooks, Coleman Domingo, Corey Hawkins, Her, Ciara, Anja New Ellis, David Alan Greer, like John Batiste is apparently,

yeah. Yeah. You know. It's a big movie. I think it's going to come out for sure. I have my doubts but I definitely

want to see it. Halle Bailey, sorry. Halle Bailey. I think the only other movie I've got on here that we haven't had a chance

to talk about, we did mention American Fiction with Adam when he was on. I'm really looking forward to it. Is The Iron Claw, which is a movie that I drafted in the auction. Sean Durkin movie, A24, about the Von Erich family, a family of true story of the family of professional wrestlers who have experienced some incredible and very sad tragedy.

That stars Zac Efron and Jeremy Allen White, among other people. I'm a Richie girl in a Yes Chef world, so, you know. A Richie girl? Yeah. Hardcore. Come on. Was that just because of the way that his story concluded at the end of season two? No, from the minute he shows up in the first episode and is yelling at all those nerds

about whatever game they're about to play, he had me. It's interesting because, you know, your husband, who I love dearly, who's, like, I think one of the most sincere, good people in the world, who really has come through for me so many times in my life,

does not have, like, scumbag energy. But you have a little a little bit of a like what's going on with that scumbag sure you know i'm curious it's like if we're gonna shake things up let's shake it up but richie is like getting a bar fight break his hand then get there was a time i mean zach wouldn't get in a bar fight right but like well he has yeah before yeah you know at ornery. Yeah, before. Yeah. You know, he is from Philly. So you think that there's like his heart is true for Richie and for Zach. Like there's some commonality there.

Yeah, I do. And I just, it's like, yes, Chef is a charming and lovely story, but it's like a little too like letterbox for food for me, you know? The whole series, you mean? No, no, no. Like his vibe. And that's why I'm more like- Oh, Jeremy Allen White's character.

Carmy. Carmy. Carmy is like a little too. I see. So that's why I'm on Richie Island. I think I relate most closely to Bernthal's character. Great. Okay.

Great. Such a great show. Can't wait for it to come back. It's wonderful. Yeah. I owe it to Beeryery what a year for her she really is unreal take it off yeah it's pretty crazy i think that's all the oh i didn't mention freud's last session which is the wife of 2023 okay uh i haven't heard a word about this other than it's about freud sony pictures classics putting it out um anthony hopkins is in it

matthew good love matthew good did you know did you notice you did because you also enjoyed down and abby too i did they couldn't get him for one day remind me who he played again i forget he is lady mary's new husband oh right but he likes to race cars so he's off you know racing cars and And so Hugh Dancy, the filmmaker, shoots his shot. I've told you about meeting Michelle Dockery in person? No. When I was working at GQ, she came up to the office for just a little meet and greet. Yeah.

Stunning. Yeah, absolutely beautiful. Just a knockout. Maybe one of the 10 most beautiful people I've ever seen in person. If they made a Downton Abbey movie every week, it would be television and I would watch it again. Yeah, same. I really enjoyed Downton Abbey too. That's what I had television and I would watch it again. Yeah, I would. Same. I enjoy.

I really enjoyed. That's what I had to say. There was literally no discourse. Like all the discourse was in the dining room at the Angelica Film Center. That was the only place you could talk about that movie in America. But I honestly thought it was fine. I thought it was pretty good. I watched it with my mother in Atlanta on Peacock and we had a wonderful time. That's why people come to this show is for the recommendations

of the great works. Like Don't Abbey 2. Fucking amazing. Anything else you want to say? I'm excited about films. I'm excited for you to see a lot of the movies that I have seen.

Likewise. And then we can talk about them. You'll be seeing one of them in 24 hours. Yes. And I just want to say to anyone listening with the power

I'm available to see the rest of the movies just let me know so you are attempting to acquire beauty products from this show

no one from this show the Campari is going great Campari I love you it's still an unofficial

sponsorship you're disgusting to me but it's fine. No one from Merritt Beauty knows I exist. And I would like to see movies, yes. But I won't be accepting money for seeing these movies. It's my job.

So I'd like to do my job. That's what I'm asking to do. Who else would you like to speak to the U.S. Department of Defense? Is there anyone else you'd like to directly address as we get to the end of this episode? If anyone has suggestions for

the correct era's movie wardrobe, let me know. Okay. That's a good call. Yeah.

I will not be wearing anything except my usual uniform to that movie. Okay, great. Just so you know. I'm going to bring

a positive attitude to it, though. I promise you. That's exciting. That's really all I can movie. Okay, great. Just so you know. I'm going to bring a positive attitude to it, though. I promise you. That's exciting. That's really all I can promise. Okay. If it's ruined by the film. We actually, when we stop recording,

we do need to buy tickets. Okay. It's playing everywhere, but, you know, we have to see it that first weekend, right? Yes, and I'll leave it to you. Okay, great. Bobby, thanks so much for your help on this episode.

Thank you for believing in Satan. Really appreciate that. That's Bobby Wagner. He's our producer. Yeah. I'm a Mets fan for believing in Satan. Really appreciate that. That's Bobby Wagner. He's our producer. Yeah. I'm a Mets fan. How could I not believe in Satan? That's exactly right.

He's been following me around my whole life. What are you talking about? Max Scherzer out for the season and for the playoffs. We did it. Luis Angel Acuna. That's good. Is that what you want? That trade worked out.

We did it. Yeah, he got traded. Wait, oh, he's not a Met anymore? No, he was traded at the deadline. And he was a loser who lost in every big spot that he ever faced. Oh, this is bad karma. He's a loser. Don't do that.

You're a loser, Max. A tough thing that's been happening in my house. Leave it for the fan. Because Knox really likes, he just likes watching sports because he says ball a lot. So we've turned on the- He's just like me. He's just like me. He's just like ball.

He's a man. So we turned on the Phillies Braves series. And I want to say that I was really respectful of my husband's process. And was just like, we got to watch the Phillies. And can you say go Phillies? And I betrayed nothing. And the Phillies lost to the Braves like every day. And we watched the Phillies clench the pennant last night.

Don't get me wrong. I desperately want the entire Braves organization every day. And we watched the Phillies clench the pennant last night. Don't get me wrong. I desperately want the entire Braves organization to be put in prison immediately. However, you have the right to make your son a Braves fan, which would be a good move.

No, it wouldn't. Don't do that. No. Are you serious? They're like the 27 Yankees right now. We have to take everything possible away from them. Knox is going to be

a great great successful man we can't give the Braves Knox as well and what make him a Phillies fan no Dodgers fan I'd rather have that Dodgers fan

I wish that they made baby Philly fanatic costumes oh that would be an amazing Halloween costume but I don't think they sell them maybe they do

they don't sell adult sized Philly fanatic costumes which is tough because I thought we could do that for like a birthday party. Imagine Chris as the Philly Fanatic

at Knox's birthday party. Come on, we got to make it happen. If anyone knows anyone at the Phillies, get in touch. Listen, I'm going back to my parents' house this weekend. Do you think I should just try to steal the actual one and give it to Chris? That's actually a good idea for a movie. Kidnapping the Philly Fanatic.

Oh my God. Fanatic. That's the name of the movie. PH. That sounds great. Okay. Well, Bob, thanks so much

for your help here. You're very welcome. So next week, we're going to be digging into A Haunting in Venice. This is the third film in Kenneth Branagh's Hercule Poirot,

I guess, trilogy. Who knows? Maybe he'll make 400 of these movies. There are many Agatha Christie books. Do you know the name of the book that this one's based on? I don't know.

It's like a Halloween party or something like that. I've never read this one. But I'm seeing it. You're seeing it. My wife is seeing it. Number two Agatha Christie fan. Yeah. As you said, we're going to talk about it.

I'm going to send you some reading as well. A London review of books piece. So we can discuss Agatha Christie. About like Afghanistan? No, it's about Agatha Christie. Okay. Interesting. We're also going to talk about our favorite Haunted House movie.

So this should be a fun one for both of us. We'll see you then. Thank you.