The Big Picture - The 2005 Upside-Down Movie Draft

Episode Date: September 2, 2022

We are drafting again! And we have a twist: Rather than draft the best movies of 2005, we’re looking at some of the worst and making a case for them. Sean, Amanda, and Chris Ryan pick their faves and foil their pals in an upside-down draft of the movies from 2005. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guest: Chris Ryan Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons. I have some good news for you. The hottest take. It's back. Oh yeah. Monday through Thursday, four times a week, you'll hear from me, Chris Ryan, Sean Fennessey, Mallory Rubin, Wazni Lambry, Van Lathan, Judah Lippman, many other Ringer staffers. You get one take, you got a defendant to the death. Sports takes, pop culture takes, food takes, airplane takes. Oh yeah, it's coming back. First episode drops August 29th.

I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the year 2005 and whether or not it sucked. Chris Ryan is here. We're drafting again, this time with a little spin. Hi, Chris. How are you? What's up, man? Hey, I wanted to ask you before we get started. How was Sidney Sweeney's mom's birthday party? I thought you had some tasteful clothing, but like, you know. I think you're mistaking me with Bill Simmons here. I believe he's the one you need to be asking about that. I certainly was not present for that party.

So guys, we're doing another draft. I getting a little a little bored with our drafts you know and and not every week can we have quentin tarantino and roger avery walk through that door this is also the first time we're drafting in person just the three of us along with bobby who is in new york at the moment and i've been never drafted. Drafting was a zoom phenomenon, hence possibly the intensity, the animosity that is associated with these drafts, right? Yeah. I think we're putting something to the test. And so what you're arguing is that in person, I'm going to be nicer to you. You're usually nice to me. That is true. You think I'm gonna be nicer to him in person? I don't know. Well, we'll have to see because Sean flipped the script here.

Yes, I did. I wanted to change this up. I've been getting a little bored, like I said, and we're running out of years in the 2000s. Do you want to unpack your boredom for a second? I mean, life is a pitiless struggle. And at a certain point, you need to find a way to... I just think you're a relentless creator.

You're like Tom York. You're like, I can't. We could just keep making the bends. But somewhere out there is my okay computer. This might turn out to be my amnesiac, I think, unfortunately for us. We're doing 2005 this year because 2005 is one of the last years in the 2000s that we have left to do. And we're going to be able to do drafts till we die. We're always going to be able to come up with ideas. That's beautiful.

And hopefully we die soon. That's your way of saying I love you. So I accept. But 05, to my mind, especially once I started looking at the list of movies, I was like, this is a pretty bad year. This is not really a fun movie year. And it's an interesting time, I think, for the three of us and where we were at in our lives. But there are a few ignominious aspects of this movie year. And it also got me thinking about what it is that we're actually doing in the movie draft. Are we trying to celebrate films that we love? Are we trying to basically praise things that have already gotten a significant amount of praise? Or are we trying to recommend movies to people and say, here is my taste and here are the things? I think through 20 plus drafts, through all of the COVID-19 pandemic, things have changed.

And the strategies have changed. Things have gotten a little more sour as time has gotten on. Well, I think we're also, the robot has become aware. You know, like we understand sometimes I personally, I speaking for myself, I think I know what will elicit votes from the audience. Do you know what I mean? I play to the base and you play to the base too. Um, I will neither confirm nor deny bass playing. Amanda, do you play to your base? I play to my own base and so do many people out there and it's really beautiful what we've created together. So things might have changed for you. For me, I march on with my hobbies and my interests and my friends.

Amanda also marches on with fewer than five victories over two and a half years of drafting. But how many times have I come in second? Every single time. Is that true? Oh, is it true? Almost. And I think there's always just like a sizable group of people. There's an emergent dot mob. Yeah. And they're lovely. And they also...

But how would you know? Since you're not online and neither are they. But you know that sometimes I am. It's really come and go. Are you really not online anymore? It's sometimes I'm the most online I've ever been in my entire life. And then I don't know where my phone is for four hours. Did you see the Twitter thread the other day where the dude was like, we coddle our children by giving them too much water. When I was a kid,

you never had water. I did see that. It was dope. Do you agree with that take? Well, I agree with this. There was a response in there that hit the nail on the head, which is that there is no water better than the garden hose water when you're like eight years old and have been running around for 13 hours and then just

like shove your face into the garden hose. That water is full of poison. Yeah, of course it is. That's why I'm only 5'7". It's not all the experimental drugs. No, it's awesome. Okay, interesting. So anyway, we're changing it up this time around. We're going to do an upside down draft. This is needlessly complicated. I'm going to do my best to explain my intent and also how we're going to do this. But you may have money balled it here. Like if this works, if we can win this way with walks, you know, then we will have changed baseball. When you say we, you mean like the four of us.

Yeah I think like I mean because if you if we could theoretically go back through all of the years that we've done and do the upside down 2007 draft. That's right. That's a good point. So we're just more content is what you're saying. It also may turn out that nobody likes these movies

and don't want us to talk about movies that are like either bad or unsuccessful. We also might run out of movies in the first two rounds given the parameters that you've set for us and also the fact that you informed us of said parameters at, I want to say,

322 PST. He was good about letting us know this was happening and then I thought that this was only going to be two categories. And in fact, it is a blanket overall. But I think I'm stepping on the rules here. Yeah. I want to be clear. I'm like Art Howe in this Moneyball analogy.

I have no idea what the fuck's going on. I'm just doing what Sean is telling me. Philip Seymour Hoffman. He's the manager. Philip Seymour Hoffman. Yeah, you got to work with us. You know, Bobby? Exactly.

If Sean is Billy Beaning this, we're just all kind of just going with the flow. Bobby wasn't even on the text chain in which I explained the rules. So Bobby's really flying blind here. Before we get into the rules, let's talk about 2005 in general. Okay. Amanda, why don't we start with you? When I alerted you to these new rules, you said this was your last year of college. Yeah, my junior year and then starting

my last year of college. So tell us, who was that person, that emergent young woman? I don't know if we want to revisit that. I was in Hanover, New Hampshire, where there was one movie theater. And well, and then you could drive to like the Cineplex down the road. But I was also in college and trying kind of hard at school and definitely trying hard at freaking out about what I would do with the rest of my life. What was the plan? I mean, I did kind of want to be in magazines. That was the hope. And the problem with wanting to be in magazines is that there's nothing that you can do your junior and senior year of high school really to prepare for that except like you know maybe save some money it's because you're going to be broke in new york for like a million years uh i i guess i

like wrote some things for the paper but mostly i just spent my time kind of ambiently freaking out and then you know recreational activities to counterbalance the existential freak out so i didn't see that many movies gonna be really honest that's the reason you're five seven as well because of all those recreational activities i'm five eight i'm almost five nine like cindy crawford just one inch taller than you chris it's okay uh chris 2005 one-on-one against her not yet uh we'll see how this podcast goes in 2026. It's just like King of the Hill on Red Rocker. 2005. You were 46 living in New York City.

Yeah. What were you doing? Who were you? I think in 2005, I was working at the Fader. So I was really more like covering music. I was writing about music. And I remember movies being like more of a curiosity than an obsession at this time. So I was probably way more like interested

in what Dipset was doing next than what like any filmmaker was doing next. I still saw a lot of these movies, which I think was like more of a social thing for me and my then girlfriend and later wife. But like it wasn't something where I was like more of a social thing for me and my then girlfriend then and later wife but like it wasn't something where I was like movies are really cool and important this year it was more like this is a fun thing to do on us on a hungover Sunday yeah I probably had a somewhat similar relationship to everything at that time I had just moved to New York in 04 and we were friends by 05

was I working at Fader when we met or was I working at Kim's? No, you were working at Kim's. Are you sure the Fader wasn't 06? Is it weird that I know your professional history better than you do? I think I worked at Kim's from 01 to 05. Maybe you're right. Maybe it is. Maybe I don't think I thought I was at Kim's for like three or four years. Maybe it was later in 05 when you went to the theater. Nevertheless, I was working first at Complex Magazine, which was my first job at a college in journalism. And then... Or as Donny Kwok used to call it, Complex.

Complex. God bless Donny Kwok. That year, I changed jobs and followed an editor-in-chief to Stuff Magazine, where I worked for 11 months, 11 interesting months. The possibility to do good journalism. Yes, at Dennis Publishing. I made great friends at Stuff Magazine.

I love those guys. Not my favorite job. So that year I definitely was seeing a lot of movies in part because I was working at a place like Stuff and they were just like, come see every movie. I was helping to run the entertainment section with my friend Patrick. But were you like, movies love my love in my life they always were since I was a kid but I was also like this is kind of great like this is really what

like this is what movies are now in my adult professional career like it didn't seem very good you told a very sweet story on the podcast you did with Joanna last week by the way still listening to your podcast thank you thank. One of the few. But it was like your first movie screening was Joanna's number one. Yeah, it was. Yeah. And you were like, I didn't get it. It was very cute.

Yeah. I mean, I think that that's like a good example of this sort of like, this ain't, maybe this isn't going to be as great as I think it is. I don't know if I was necessarily like angling to be covering movies my whole life, but it was a fringe benefit of,

and I was doing more music like you, Chris, but the idea of like this being the year of Capote and no offense to Walk the Line, I know you love Walk the Line, but like Walk the Line, like movies like that

where I was like, okay, this is like Cinderella, man. Like this is okay, but like this is not, this is, so sure as in 1989 and it sure is in 1975. So what are we doing?

We would hang out. We wouldn't talk about movies. We wouldn't. We would talk about older movies. Yeah. We were talking about other movies, but we wouldn't, we would talk about rap and The Wire.

Yep. This was The Wire time. This was when you were coming over to my house watching The Wire. And we would do stuff like that. And we would go to shows, but we didn't, we weren't like, man,

War of the Worlds. Let's just break it down scene by scene. But we weren't like, man, War of the Worlds. Let's just break it down scene by scene. Even though I like War of the Worlds a lot. I do too. I definitely saw it in theaters and had a great time. But it wasn't the event of my summer the way a movie like War of the Worlds now would be one of the events of my summer. Do you think that that was a function for all three of us of being in our 20s? Do you think it was a function of the time and the kinds of movies that were made? Some combination of both of those things?

I think it depends on the era. If we were in our 20s when the indie film explosion of the 90s was happening, I'm sure we would be talking more about sex lies and videotape and Richard Linklater all the time at bars and stuff like that. But when we have multiple Ryan Reynolds comedies, I don't really know. I mean, it's just, it's really easy to take or leave mass popular culture when you're going out five nights a week. That's right. That's a good point. I was definitely going out

a lot more often back then. Same. I mean, and I was also, I mean, I'm still in college, so I wasn't very good at keeping up on popular culture in real time. In college. And neither was I.

When did Vulture start? I want to say 2008 I wasn't there till maybe a bit earlier and then I joined in 2010 or 2011 because I will say that the

the internet gravitating towards like fun coverage of this stuff yeah which sort of starts to happen Defamer and Vulture and a couple of other sites

helped. Right? Like it helped you just kind of like, especially if you had a job where you were more or less on your computer all day, you'd sort of start to be like,

oh yeah, like, give some thought to what Amy Smart is doing. You know, like. Well, in addition to the fact that it was not necessarily

a great year for movies, it also felt like a little bit of a, like a bad luck year for movies or a bad omen year for movies. This is notoriously the year that Crash was released and won Best Picture, defeating Brokeback Mountain. Brokeback Mountain is a wonderful film, but it not winning seemed to kind of indicate some sort of bad juju in the mix. The highest grossing film of this year

was episode three of Revenge of the Sith, the conclusion to george lucas's much reviled star wars prequel trilogy i did see this movie much reviled except by like most of the people who work at the ringer it i mean so revenge of this is sith is an interesting object of cultural fascination because um i do remember seeing it at the time and liking it and i actually got into a long phone argument with our old friend chris x remember him no chris and chris at that time who's an incredible writer um was in many ways tutoring me on critical thought and he was really challenging me and we would have these long phone conversations at night it's a very similar relationship i had with john karamonica our old our old friend and chris would basically like

lecture me but then occasionally ask me my opinion so he could dismantle it. And it was a really good way to come up. And we didn't talk about movies very much, mostly about rap, but he wanted to talk about the Star Wars trilogy because I said I liked the prequels at the time. Yeah. And he made me understand

why they were not good in many ways. But my opinion back then has really come around, and even though those movies made a lot of money they're now like if i feel like if you're under 35 i feel like prequels are just good like it's not complicated reference the prequels more than they reference the original trilogy and when i'm like oh yeah like those the original trilogy is the shit they're like no it's not it's ewoks it's like they didn't know what they were doing. Yeah. Scope's not there. Yeah. Pretty, pretty, pretty strange. Anyway, that's one thing.

This is also the year of Tomcat. Mm-hmm. And the Tom Cruise appearance on Oprah, the famous couch incident. And Brangelina, right? Brangelina begins this year

because of Mr. and Mrs. Smith. This is the year of Batman Begins and the Christopher Nolan superhero run, which is not necessarily a bad thing. It's a good thing

in some ways, but it also feels like a line in the sand. And like I said, a lot of the Oscar movies this year feel very perfunctory. Good Night and Good Luck,

Walk the Line, North Country, Siriana, Cinderella Man, Capote. These aren't really bad movies, but none of them are great. Brokeback is the only one I would consider great

from that whole bunch. Sense and Sensibility is there too. I think Munich's great. Oh, excuse me. Pride and Prejudice is there too, which is a pretty great movie. But what's that? Munich.

I think Munich's great. I like it, but having just watched Saving Private Ryan, I'm like, oh, this one. This is the movie. Munich is definitely not bad is it in is it my 10 favorite spielberg movies probably not there's just something kind of meh blah about it and unmemorable except for in a way you got to hand it to the oscars because they took a really blah year and made it infamous by then giving Best Picture to Crash.

But that's the only thing that stands out. Anything jump out to you when you look at 2005 before I explain some of my thinking about how to dismantle all this? No, I mean, we've hit this before about this era of filmmaking, which is just the way in which it was almost competing with television in terms of churning out mass genre entertainment. So there's tons of comedies. There's tons of action movies. There's tons of horror movies. There's lots of romance movies.

There's still some adult dramas. But for the most part, all this stuff that now has been wiped away from movies and getting theatrical releases is spilling out over the top of the jar here in 2005. And maybe for better or for worse, like when you look at a year like this, you're like, oh, that's fine. We didn't need like, you know, I don't know if we needed some of these movies to be continue to get made. Yeah. And I think I knew that in the back of

my head as I was thinking about what years to draft. And so I pushed this off for a long time. And when I finally got back around to it, my thinking here was, let's challenge the premise of the draft. Let's also try to do something a little bit different in terms of trying to be passionate about a movie that we like that may not be in the critical consensus or may not even be like necessarily

like a cult object of fascination. Is there anything that is sort of like a middle of the road movie that we really want to go to bat for and celebrate in a way or something that needs to still be discovered or what have you? So I invented some parameters. The parameters are arcane and I apologize, but I do feel like this will draw out some interesting ideas. So here are the parameters. The movies that are going to be drafted here today in the first ever upside down draft either need to be one of these three things with a critical exception. They either need to have made less than $30 million while playing on at least 1000 screens. They need to

have an under 70% Rotten Tomatoes score. I started with under 50%, but I found that far too unwise and difficult to do. So I raised it to 70% in part because Rotten Tomatoes significantly over inflates a lot of their movies or their movie ratings. And the third thing is this film, a film could be nominated for a Razzie and be drafted. So this is awesome because as you noted, we're coming up on 20 years of friendship. And this is the first time I've ever heard you say the word Razzies. I was very reluctant to do this because I don't believe in the Razzies and I think that they're bad for our culture. Let me also just say, the Razzies phoned it in in 2005.

We've got like four options. They're not good for our culture now. And there's two cheats. And they're not good for the draft. Yes, and there are two cheats. But there are two hacks. Like, there are a couple of good movies that are in the Razzies that are available in this draft because of the culture. And that's part of what I thought was interesting. Because of what was happening in a tabloid culture, in a celebrity culture, the Razzies somehow thought it would be cute to nominate movies that are actually good.

Or performances that are actually good. Or, you know, at least not amongst the worst of the year in an effort to draw attention to themselves now you could make the case that the Razzies are ridiculous but the Oscars do the same thing you're true you're right I it is funny to think about that stuff like it's been a while since we've had something happen like we have with Don't Worry Darling right where like a movie that is coming out is being essentially torn apart by like non-movie reasons. And that was so kind of routine that happened. Like there was a lot more antagonism, antagonism towards movie stars and movies in 05. I think it's a little bit more like

things have all been walled off. There's so much Stan culture. There's so much like, you know, everything is kind of siloed off. So like, why would you get mad about like a big mainstream movie? But it was kind of routine for that to happen back at this era, right? Yes. And the movies could still coast on the movie stars being at the center of popular culture, which is especially both Tomcat and Brangelina. Like this is year zero for those phenomenons that went on for literally years are still ongoing in pretty ugly ways right now.

Yeah. But that the movies would still sell, you know, that they would open it. Whether they were opening it because of, you know, their charm or because of the tabloid sensation, very unique moment in tabloids as well. Please listen to Just Like Us on the Ringer Dish. But yes, it was the center of culture. Yeah. Yeah. The interesting thing about that too, and this is in Just Like Us quite a bit, but what you're identifying about what is happening with Don't Worry Darling and what was clearly happening in 2005, that was happening at a mainstream media level. That was happening on E. It was happening in the wall street journal like it

was that critical culture wasn't just something that was happening on twitter there was no twitter it it feels like that's like the safe harbor now for talking shit about celebrities you don't see that in mainstream press for the most part and so that is a pretty significant difference but you're right also amanda that like it also kind of didn't matter. And in some cases actually helped. Like whatever, what's happening with Don't Worry Darling, it's raising awareness to that film, but I don't think it's helping. Well, that's what, yeah, Matt Bellany

was just writing about that in his column this week where he was like, there are times where like this kind of controversy can kind of cause a lot of like name awareness for a movie. And he was like, I don't get the sense that that's going to happen here. The Tomcat example is an interesting one too, because it did also signal Tom Cruise making a pretty critical shift in terms of the kinds of movies that he made, which we've talked about

many times in the past. So anyway, we can get into that as we draft our movies too, and kind of talk about whether these movies were victims of their time or not. At first blush, or maybe at second blush, since we talked about this yesterday, Amanda, what do you think of my idea for this draft? I can only think of it in terms of I have no idea what I'm going to do. It's like Amanda homework Dobbins is really going to be winging it a lot of sea biscuiting in my future. Because one interesting note about the way that we've done this is, as I said, in 2005, I was up to other things. And so I didn't see as many movies as I have, you know, in other years.

And when you're going back to catch up and being like, I need to do my movie education now or fill in the blanks. It's not the movies that are eligible for this draft that I went and like made up on. So, you know, I have movies here and there that I've seen on some I even really love that I've seen several times that are eligible for this draft that I went and like made up on. So I, you know, I have movies here and there that I've seen on some, I even really love that. I've seen several times that are eligible, but like not that many. So it's going to be interesting. There are drafts that we do where,

when we look at honorable mentions or things you were thinking about putting in wild card, I was like, I've been like, wow, there's 40, there's 30 movies here. It would just be great if we could just draft it almost.

I was almost like, Oh, if we just went back and it's like, none of the movies drafted before are eligible now redraft. But this is actually like, it's strange because there is a whole world of movie watching. That's like, this isn't good,

but I'm entertained. And that is what I'm trying to put my finger on. That is exactly what I'm trying to upend in myself, which is forget about everything that we know about what won the Academy Award, what won the box office, what did Roger Ebert like that year? Let's set all of that aside. Let's think about what we saw or what we've since seen and what we liked and try to disentangle it from all of this other stuff.

And this is actually a good year to do it because this was still like pre-mass movie coverage on the internet for the most part. At least I wasn't reading it if it was, I mean, Ain't It Cooler and stuff like that was around. But like-

It was still an Entertainment Weekly culture. But it wasn't like you were like, here's the teaser, here's the trailer, here's 45 descriptions of the plot, here's interviews coming out a month before like this movie drops. You're fully aware of the product before you actually engage with it.

I remember going to see a movie. I was in Cleveland for a wedding. It was the first wedding of my friends. And the day of the wedding, and we had the whole day to kill, I'll say, we went and saw House of Wax. And I was like, that was pretty good.

Pretty good. And it's considered an all-time turkey for some reason. But I was like, this is actually a pretty cool way to kill two hours

in Cleveland. And that movie is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I suspect that movie will be drafted today. That movie is directed by Yom Kolet-Serra,

who is now a huge mainstream movie filmmaker and who also became basically a cult hero between 2006 and 2014 because of the movies that he made. And so you never know. You never know. A movie that could be a turkey,

that could be a Razzie nominee, could also turn out to be the wellspring of creativity or future success. So this pot is a gamble. And it's very possible that we are the Oakland A's of 2022 and not of 2002. They're not doing well? They're struggling right now.

They play in the worst ballpark in America. Their ownership is heinous. They have completely gutted their team. In order to be the the a's of 2022 you guys would all just have to get traded to a different podcast pod recording and just sub in like the first three people that you see in the hallway to do the podcast instead how are the mets doing still good they're in first place okay that's really that's really all i can say although we are recording this on a monday and it's running on a friday so

hopefully i didn't fuck that up by saying that. Maybe don't, maybe cut that, Bobby. Okay, we'll do it. There's one caveat here, which is that just for the sake of good governance, we have to let some truly good movies get drafted, which means in the wildcard category, any movie is eligible.

Okay. Now, whether or not you want to burn that quickly or wait till the end as we usually do for wild card, I think it's actually an interesting wrinkle as well. Because if you just wanted to jump out of the chute and say,

I'm taking Brokeback Mountain first overall wild card in an effort to strengthen your draft pool, you can do that. I could do that. That feels a little bit out of the spirit,

but I don't want to push you guys in one direction or another. Yes, okay. Can I ask you one more question? Yes. Did you change the box office list since i have last looked at it i uh i didn't change it it's always been oh i took out a couple of movies because they were not on a thousand screens okay oh okay there's one in particular

you know what i'm i i honestly don't what was it well hold on let me you can tell me because it's no longer eligible because i made a mistake i'm'm actually Googling it's Rotten Tomatoes score. Here's a little bit of inside baseball. Trust me, it did. It did better. It did. Damn it. Okay, squid in the oil. Yes. Okay. You took that off. Here's a little inside baseball. Usually when we do these drafts, I make a long list on Letterboxd of every movie that I can figure out that was released in this year in the U.S. domestic. What's your process for like when you prepare? Well, Chris is looking at me. That was that was real Terry Gross. Well, no, because I... That was beautiful.

He does that. But even though he does that, I don't learn it, right? Unless I go through the Wikipedia list of all the movies released and just write down the ones I like. I do that as well. Yeah, I do it individually.

Yeah, before you send a letterbox. And sometimes I accidentally put it in the wrong doc and you guys are like, Chris, we see what you're trying to do. That did happen once. That was wonderful. Wasn't that the one where then you drafted Iron Man 3 first

went in a year with Before Midnight just that's so great in this case I gave you guys more than I usually do but still not nearly enough

I would say in terms of because I gave you all of the films that would qualify for under 30 million dollars at the box office playing on a thousand screens

and I gave you all the Razzie nominees but there's no database as you pointed out Chris for Rotten Tomatoes qualify for under $30 million at the box office playing on a thousand screens. And I gave you all the Razzie nominees. But there's no database, as you pointed out, Chris, for Rotten Tomatoes. We can't look at the year 2005 and see the scores for every film. At least I couldn't find that. So you had to do it manually.

So you had to do it manually. So you had to say, I think this movie probably doesn't have 70% on Rotten Tomatoes. And then there's one other factor here. A lot of movies get reviewed after they've been released, sometimes years after they've been released, and the score gets bumped up. No way. Do they do that? Yeah, they integrate old reviews into the score. So we're not just looking at the score from the

moment of release. We're looking at the score that evolves over time. So wait, there's actually like there will be people who are like, actually, this is good. Yes. Three, four, five years later or on anniversaries. And they put that in there? I can't think of one specific example at the moment, but there are clearly cases in which some films that at the time were considered duds that have crept up. I mean, Revenge of the Sith. I would love to know what Revenge of the Sith's

Rotten Tomatoes score was when it was released in May of 2005, because it's definitely higher today. Can I ask a dumb question? Yeah. Did Rotten Tomatoes exist in 2005? I believe so. It did?

I believe so. Do you also want to do some sort of Rotten Tomatoes caveat right now? I feel a little, I can't believe that you've structured

a draft that's so much around. I was going to suggest Metacritic. I didn't know, but I don't know if Metacritic scores are like... I don't know when Metacritic started

tracking films. Rotten Tomatoes, just for the sake of conversation, Revenge of the Sith is now at tracking films. Rotten Tomatoes, just for the sake of conversation, Revenge of the Sith is now at 80% on Rotten Tomatoes. Look, I don't believe in the Razzies and I don't believe in Rotten Tomatoes. Not that I don't believe in the people who work hard to make Rotten Tomatoes good.

I just think the general premise of Rotten Tomatoes, as I've said ad nauseum on the rewatchables over the years, is highly flawed and in many ways has kind of damaged the idea of what is and is not worthy of moviegoing. And also, it's a place of some toxicity in terms of what people do in terms of the user reviews. It's a very complex

environment. Is Rotten Tomatoes, is the audience score on Rotten Tomatoes proprietary to them or is it coming from somewhere else? I'm not sure. So when they do like the popcorn versus the critics thing? I believe that's proprietary to them or is it coming from somewhere else? I'm not sure. So when they do like the popcorn versus the critics thing? I believe that's proprietary to them. So interesting. These are imperfect measurements, but you know what? The Academy Awards is imperfect. That's true. Can I say one thing about the 2005 Academy Awards? Obviously screwed it up forever all time by giving

it to Crash. Don't know what to say. Parody of themselves. But here's who won the acting awards. Philip Seymour Hoffman, Reese Witherspoon, George Clooney, and Rachel Weisz. Obviously super white, but otherwise, and not for great movies always, but for people I like. So, and Ang Lee won Best Director. Also, you know, one of the great directors. So, I don't know. I can't argue with those people. They were all really good in those movies too.

Life's a rich pageant, you know? Even at the worst of times, we get cool stuff. And this was not, it's not necessarily a bad Oscars. It's just a bad best picture. It was. We can say what things are. It was a bad Oscars. It was a bad Oscars. Okay. Any closing thoughts? Do you want to draft, Chris? No. I don't know that I have any... I'm very, very interested to see everybody's strategy play out. I have no strategy. I don't really either,

if I'm being honest. Even though I devised this, I looked at what I was going to do and I still am a bit bewildered. And frankly, I don't even know what to advise the listenership to say, here's how you win.

Because even more so, this is a template for personal taste. This is a template for valorizing the undersea. But it's a weird year to have it because it's like I'm very excited to do this but it is a strange, there are years where I'm like, there are so many passion

projects out here for me. This year it's like more like, yeah you know what, I actually have seen that three times. Weird. But there are a few and I thought of both of you as I put this together where I'm like, that is an Amanda movie or that is a Chris movie. Absolute dog shit.

But I have like watched multiple times. Yes. So, okay. Well, Bobby quickly, 2005, who are you? Uh,

I was putting in a lot of work in four square and the scholastic book fair. I was nine years old. Okay. Wow. Great. Uh, revenge of the Sith was not only the most scholastic book fair yeah i think they're still rolling that makes me really happy still going strong uh revenge of the sith was not

only the most important movie in my life it was like one of the most important things in my life full stop it was like before i got really into sports i think had you seen the original films uh not by that point i had only seen i had seen the first two in the prequel trilogy bobby how did that uh enthusiasm express itself throughout your life uh i was anakin for halloween two years in a row beautiful uh and i just talked to yeah i had yeah i had the fake rat tail thing that he has going in like the second movie did all that had the lightsabers had the tunic kind of vibe whatever the hell you. Did all that. Had the lightsabers. Had the tunic kind of vibe.

Whatever the hell you call that that they wear. That the Jedi wear. Yeah. That was me in 2005. Thank you for sharing those Anakin memories.

I won't be sharing any photos unless I lose some kind of long term bet that has high upside for me. You and I can discuss that offline then.

Okay, sounds good. Bobby, let's do the draft order. I don't even know what, does anybody want to go first or third or is there a preference here? This is an odd one. I have an answer, but I don't, but let's see what the order is.

Okay. I've got the Top Gun hat back. Yes. I caught a lot of flack for not bringing it all the way to Los Angeles and doing this in front of Quentin Tarantino and Roger Avery, but I will be doing it for this draft.

Do you guys enjoy the Quentin Tarantino, Roger Avery draft? Oh, Chris is first. First pick is Chris Ryan. I loved it. It was fun. Very charming guys. I loved it, yeah. I like how much Chris has talked about how nervous he was.

I was a little bit confessional on the watch. I was just like, oh, I heard. Got in my own head a little bit. We listen to the watch, even if you don't listen to the big picture. I listen to the big picture all the time. Okay, number two, Sean. I'm two. Going second is Sean.

Walking through leafy London parks. That's really beautiful. Thank you. Amanda is three, so she is at the turn. Okay. Gosh, I wonder what Quentin and Roger would do with this draft.

They'd probably have great takes on this. Oh, they would be like, there's this... They'd be in all their glory. There's this Abel Ferreira short that didn't get released. Okay, well, Chris,

it's up to you. Oh, I should probably read what these categories are, huh? Yeah. So, some are holdovers from the past with our new parameters. We have drama., we have comedy, we have Razzie nominee, we have action thriller or horror. We have bomb as opposed to blockbuster, which is $30 million or less at the box office.

And we have wild card, which is, and those have to be released on a thousand screens. The moot, the bombs need to be released on a thousand screens, $30 million less. Is that a perfect way of measuring whether a movie is a bomb or not? Not really. There are some movies that are going to qualify here that are not necessarily quote-unquote bombs. But it's the best that we can do in this conversation. So, CR. This is a catastrophe already.

Well, okay. No one is drafted. In some way, this is a... Go ahead. In poker parlance, this is a check. You know? Okay. I'm going to take War of the Worlds and Razzies.

Okay. Okay. So, notable that the Razzies, as I said, did nominate a handful of... Like, good movies. Pretty good movies. Some bad movies. Mm-hmm. Dirty Love, the Jenny McCarthy vehicle in particular, won Worst Picture.

What was the Tara Reid one? Afraid of the Dark. Afraid of the Dark was there. She plays like a scientist, right? Yeah. And then there were some others that we won't spoil yet, the vehicle in particular one worst picture afraid of the dark afraid of the dark which was there scientist right yeah and then there were some others that we won't spoil yet because Amanda

and I still needs to draft um War of the Worlds because of Tomcat mm-hmm somehow landed Tom Cruise a worst actor performance

he's just sincerely not true he's quite entertaining in this movie this movie is pretty thrilling still uh I remember just being like watching this and just being like not true. He's quite entertaining in this movie. This movie is pretty thrilling still.

I remember just being like watching this and just being like Spielberg is the best. This is just better than everything else. I don't really have a lot to say about it in regards to the spirit of this draft. I don't think I have to make the case for War of the Worlds, right? No. I think that's

the thing. People are going to see these slates and in some categories you're going to have a perfectly adequate film. In fact, a film you might take in your first few picks. And then in another category you might have a movie

that is widely reviled. Yeah. And so this is a challenge. Now I will continue in that spirit. Yeah. And I have to lean into Razzie nominee. Yeah. And I'm going to take take revenge of the sith oh

you are oh interesting wow okay i'm not gonna take what i'm not gonna do you're gonna take are you being nice to me right now because we're back in the studio i was worried about this i love potting with you in person i i really like it too yeah you're really good my husband listened to our podcast and then was like wow i didn't the't, the one we did last week. He was like, wow, didn't know you were bringing that energy. And I was like, what energy do you mean, sir? We were having fun.

Yeah, okay. It's good to be back, but honestly, no. But you are being, okay, you're not? Well, no, I'm not being rude. I'm picking the movie that I want.

And I want this movie in part because, as I said, in 2005 when I was on the phone with Chris X, I was like, Revenge of the Sith is good and you can't tell me otherwise.

Is The Phantom Menace good? No, it's not good. Attack of the Cl with Chris X I was like Revenge of the Sith is good and you can't tell me otherwise is the Phantom Menace good no it's not good um Attack of the Clones is a little better and Revenge of the Sith I think is legitimately good and it was a Razzie nominee for obvious reasons it was the pinnacle of Hayden Christensen can't act and all of that criticism and this trilogy had fully become a critical beat down uh figure at this point but I like it. It's an interesting example, just like War of the Worlds, of how the Razzies, I think,

doesn't really ever live up to its goal. Like, if you actually were trying to nominate the worst films of the year, you'd have to work a little harder than movies like Revenge of the Sith. There's a couple I could have suggested to them. There are quite a few that are not nominated that could have been. So anyway, that's my pick.

This sets me up well for my pick, which is also the Razzies pick. And it is in the kind of star fucking, for lack of a better term, certainly a kinder term, spirit of the Razzies. And it's the other half of the TomGat thing. So I'll take Katie Holmes and Batman Begins. And I guess I'll take Batman Begins. And it's worth noting that I don't think it was because of the Razzies, but since this part gets recast in Dark Knight, the kind of profound impact this sort of discourse wound up having on her career. No question.

Right. And it was suggested at the time that Tom Cruise encouraged her to not be a part of Batman Begins anymore. I have absolutely no way of verifying that. But like this, just to take you back to the environment, the mood around all of this stuff, it was like pretty gnarly. I don't think she's the best part of Batman Begins either. So I don't feel the worst about this, but it's just a little mean spirited. And Maggie Gyllenhaal is really pretty good in Dark Knight but I also think that that version of the character

or the role that she gets to play or what she gets to do in Dark Knight is much more interesting than what Katie Holmes gets to do in Batman Begins no question and is that because the part was rewritten because she's a more gifted actress hard to say I was I was always a fan of Katie Holmes if you get Nolan for Oppenheimer, lead with that question. Could you imagine if Nolan was like

what I really want to do on my press tours is the big picture? Talk about Rachel. Okay. This movie really creeps me out also. These were the three

best movies that were eligible for this draft in my opinion. I shouldn't say that. These were the three movies that were most likely to be drafted

in a normal 2005 movie draft that were also eligible. So I think our ultimate list now will probably wind up being somewhat more like... So when I asked Sean, I was like, I said to him,

like, so are we only picking bad movies, quote unquote, in the bomb and Razzies category? Or is it, it's governed, every category needs to be a bomb, Razzie, or sub Rotten Tomato, sub 70 Rotten Tomato.

And now I think we'll probably get into those. But since we also still have Wild Card, we're going to wind up with some, I think the tide comes up a little bit here. For sure. It's going to be a little bit more challenging. Now I have a lot of potentials, but as I look at my list, I'm like,

do I actually like this movie? Am I actually going to be making the case for it? So Amanda, you have another pick, your next pick. So I am going to take a movie that I do actually like. Good. And I don't know whether it'll be on your lists, but it could be because there is an angle of interest for you, but I actually will defend this movie. In action slash horror action movie, I'm taking Mr. and Mrs. Smith. Okay. Okay. Now, this is the other half of the tabloid storm of 2005, and this was very intense. This is the movie on which Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie met, and though everyone involved denied it, started their relationship, which became a, and continues to be a sensation in all senses of that word. This is also like a somewhat reviled, and this is eligible

because it's Rotten Tomatoes score is. 59%. Yeah. Let me tell you that's wrong. This is a pretty charming movie. I think that this is directed by Doug Liman, which is why I thought maybe one of you would be interested in it. And I think that this is a by Doug Liman, which is why I thought maybe one of you would be interested in it. And I think that this is a pretty funny movie about marriage, to be honest, with some also some good hijinks. And I also should probably mention at this point that I'm very happy in my marriage. But Isaac, hope you're great. But I think it's really funny. And like the, especially the, the kind of therapy scenes that are sprinkled throughout and the like deadpan comedy of the two people is amusing to me.

I think that Pitt and Julie look absolutely incredible in this movie. It might be kind of where their hotness is kind of aligned at like a really, really high point. Yeah, you know? That's a great category. Sort of like, were two people ever hotter at the same time in a movie? While also, yeah, right. And they're just really going for it.

And the movie makes use of their star quality and even the tabloid info around them in a way that I find engaging it's a very fun watch it's it's a great to me rewatchable oh this is on fx which like it always was for about four years sure i'll like watch the rest of it um it doesn't make a ton of sense and the supporting performances are you know very wildly but i like the dinner scene and the has a lot of the same tension as a phantom thread for my money and then every time you know they're just fighting at each other bold claim right and i mean i can't really eat like peas without thinking about it like if i

drop a knife i think about catching it like one of of the, you know, which I can't. It would be great. I should learn that skill. Good movie. It was probably not helped by the fact that in 2005, the idea of a married couple who were unbeknownst to one another, also assassins, seemed less crazy than Brad Pitt leaving Jennifer Aniston for Angelina Jolie. And I just remember thinking like the whole time watching that movie,

just being like real life is somehow more like entertaining than what we're watching. But it was still, it's very enjoyable. Confession time. I've never seen this film. Really? Never seen it. It's pretty fun.

You should check it out. But it's like, I've been to Prague, been to Prague. I'm like, yeah, I'm a Doug Liman expert and a Brad Pitt expert. And I just, for whatever reason, it was fresh out of college and maybe this one wasn't available this weekend or something.

And I never really fired it up. I think in part because of all the tabloid baggage. But that didn't keep me away from War of the Worlds for whatever reason, or Batman Begins for that matter. So I don't know. I just, I missed it. But I think a very reasonable pick. And I think a movie with fans for sure yeah um okay so now it's my turn

um you know there there is a movie that I could draft to kneecap CR which I'm not gonna do okay I'm not gonna hurt you I'm honestly trying to think of what oh I know what you would do it's okay because I've gotten to draft it before I think so or talk about it a lot you've definitely talked about it a lot but

I don't really like it that much I know so I it would feel weird to take it yeah so I'm not gonna take it okay here's what I'm gonna do

I'm gonna draft in bomb because I had a hard time finding movies in this category that I really had anything to say about and I don't think that this movie was coming off the board anytime soon, but I like

it and I've always liked it. And this feels firmly in the Revenge of the Sith category for me as well. That movie is Elizabethtown. Written and directed by Cameron Crowe. Alright. Do it. Elizabethtown is widely considered the beginning of the end for Cameron Crowe. I think it was the

sharp, the door slamming shut. So Cameron Crowe, of course, one of our great rock and roll journalists, one of our great writer directors of the last 30 to 40 years. I like how you just gestured at me when you said rock and roll journalist. As you know, Amanda. Me and Cameron Crowe. Reader of Rolling Stone circa 1975. You know, he was on an extremely hot run in the 90s

from Say Anything to Singles to Jerry Maguire. It's almost famous. To Vanilla Sky, which was a... I would say the reception was mixed for that film. An interesting keyhole look into the psyche of Tom Cruise. For sure. Following up Eyes Wide Shut with Vanilla Sky. Hint, hint.

Elizabethtown is an attempt to return to a kind of coming-of-age form, and it flopped. Orlando Bloom got very bad reviews for his performance. He essentially makes 20 years of Lord of the Rings and Hobbit movies after this. His career was never the same.

I believe Ashton Kutcher was originally cast. Yeah, he replaced Ashton Kutcher. I can't remember, why did Ashton Kutcher leave? Or was he fired? I believe it was creative differences is my memory on that. This is a movie about a guy who works for a Nike-esque shoe corporation who has a crisis of faith. And when there's a death in the family, has to return to Kentucky and is reunited with his family where he meets a manic pixie dream girl.

A true manic pixie dream girl figure in the form of Claire Colburn, who's played by Kirsten Dunst. A couple things about this movie. Kirsten Dunst is amazing in this movie. She's amazing in every movie. She's wonderful always, but she's particularly good in this sorry so he hasn't when can we do a kirsten dunst hall of fame i guess we should have done it for power of the dog but we probably should have yeah um does she have a film coming out she does it she she is the star of the new alex garland film coming out next year really yes called civil war

well i'm gonna work through my feelings on that i I've got a year to prepare. Apparently it's a very big production. Orlando Bloom, you know, I like Legolas. It would have been cool if he played this character as Legolas. It's one of those things where in 2005, people were like, this is the worst an actor can possibly do. And if you watch Elizabeth Towne

on cable now, you're like, you wouldn't blink. I think it's pretty good. It's a narcissism of small differences thing because we knew so much about Crow and his writing style and the kind of performances

he had gotten and a handful of movies that are all-time classics. Jerry Maguire and Almost Famous are Pantheon-level films. This movie is not as good as those movies.

Is it like the worst movie of the year? I think not even close. Does it take a couple of swings that are ridiculous? Sure. I'd rather he try than not try.

So I'm proud to have Elizabeth Shepard. You know who's really good in this? Paul Schneider. I have him on my list here. Paul Schneider and Loudon Wainwright III. Yeah.

Paul Schneider coming out of All the Real Girls. I was like, all the money was on. I took a bath on Paul Schneider. Yeah. You remember Jim Girls. I was like, all the money was on. I took a bath on Paul Schneider. Yeah. You remember Jim James from My Morning Jacket?

He sings in this film. I mean, come on. There's a lot to like. Do you think I could be friends with Kirsten Dunst? Of like all the movie stars out there? What do you think?

This is going to seem like an insult, but I mean it as a compliment. You're either too cool for her or not cool enough. I could be not cool enough. Because she has some pretty hip friends, but she's also clearly in mom mode right now. So maybe there's a click point there. Yeah. Two boys, I think. So we could bond over that.

Yeah. I mean, think about how Zach would do with Plemons. It's a home run. You know, actually, I hope this is okay to share. He interviewed Jesse Plemons once. And he speaks to a lot of famous people. And he came home being like, that's the dude. Yeah, I love that guy. I really get it. Everyone says that about Plemons. Everyone says that about him.

And I really enjoyed their house tour and architectural digest. It seems like they've just got, you know, they're spending time in the valley. I don't know if anyone knows Kiki. And just, I'm looking for new friends. Does she still go by K go by kiki i well that's one of the things i would ask her and i would be willing to use whatever name normal friend question yeah you know how do you prefer to be called in your day-to-day friend life chris if you and i lose touch and then 10 years later i circle back you circle back like or you circle back to me okay yeah I'm not trying to impose any power on you

okay and I said you still go by CR what would you say well I'll be in my mid 50s so if I'm still going by CR

like what am I doing you know what I mean but it's part of your brand now I guess so whatever you do next whatever you do next whatever you do next as long as it is forward facing it has to have CR in the title

it has to it can't be the watch podcast it has to be the CR jamboree it's a tough B for Andy the CR and Andy jamboree the Andy and CR the CR show featuring Andy

yeah I mean just keep that in mind I will thanks man I'll call Kiki and I'll ask her if she's interested in your time. Okay, thank you. She and I are close.

Ciara, you have a pick. Gosh. All right. You have two picks. Well, you've inspired me somewhat because, you know, you're starting to dip into the dogs a little bit. Yeah, let's have some fun. So I'm going to, in the same spirit, go for a movie in Bomb.

Okay. And it's not the movie you think I'm going to pick, Sean. It's a movie that I've watched several times recently because it's been on cable a lot. And every time I'm like, we just don't make them like we used to.

And that is Domino. Oh, yeah. I knew you were going to take this. Great. This is Keira Knightley plays in a Tony Scott film, which is probably along with Man on Fire,

the most psychedelic Tony Scott movie that he ever along with Man on Fire the most psychedelic Tony Scott movie that he ever made. And she plays a model who becomes an assassin. Yes. How have I never seen this movie? She works with Mickey Rourke.

It's bonkers. And it is crazy. It is like you would actually love it. I will? I think you would like it. Yes. It's really interesting.

If people haven't gotten a chance to see it I think this is one of those movies that when it came out in 2005, people were like, this is a coked out piece of shit. And then as time has gone by, people are like,

that's just a really sick and also stylized to the inch of its life, very cool shoot-em-up. So I'll take Domino here. So I believe that this is the job that richard kelly got after donnie darko after donnie darko he was asked to write this movie which is based on a real person but i think takes significant liberties with the facts um it's a pretty cool tony scott movie honestly especially in hindsight the fact that he tried to make

something like this. I do want your review of this. Okay. I was with you until Shoot Em Up. It is a shoot em up. At some point, once the guns start going, I just take them out. It's very much like post-true romance, just shooting for two hours.

Hey, I rewatched Heat recently. Oh, I told you that in person, but I'll just share it on the podcast. I rewatched Heat recently to get ready for Heat 2. Those guys are really good at guns. What's the Heat 2 plan for us? We talked about it on Monday. I mean, I would love to get ready for Heat 2. Those guys are really good at guns. What's the Heat 2 plan for us? We talked about it on Monday. I mean, I would love to do a Heat 2 pod.

I feel like we should do a Heat 2 pod. I'm in the middle of it right now. Okay, you're in the middle of it. I'll start it. I just want to finish the mystery novel. It's pretty good. What's the best way to do a podcast about a book? That was what I was kind of stumbling on.

I'll give it some thought. Because it can't just be me reading all the Vincent Hanna parts it can't it well I'll say it definitely affects your reading of it when you hear your own voice saying like what time do you get off and also now my Vincent Hanna is becoming Jerry Stiller. Was there any part of you that was holding out hope that you'd get the call for the audiobook? Even like a scintilla of hope. Why don't you release your own? Is that the pod?

Speaking of next business. CR presents Heat 2, the CR version. Chris, you got another pick good pick I think we're doing what I was hoping we would do right now which is picking movies that I think most people

would be like that movie's okay and then saying actually it's great okay oh I know which movie you were you were sub tweeting

for Chris that's like the Chris movie maybe I'll take it right now are you gonna take it? no don't be a coward it's not about Are you going to take it? No. Don't be a coward. It's not about cowardice.

It's about trying on some different outfits. We have talked about it. Are you not going to take it at all? We'll see. We'll see. Well, you have a selection. Yeah. But my selection...

Wow. I've never seen you like this. Never ever in the history of drafts. You are contemplative, agonized, curious, tempting the fates. I just don't want to, I kind of want to talk about other movies today, but I guess I'll take Kingdom of Heaven and Draw.

There we go. That's the one. So to be fair, there is a 39% Rotten Tomato on this. I would be curious to know whether or not it accounts for the director's cut. Personally, I think only like eight people have ever bothered to watch the director's cut. They all listened to the director's cut podcast and were like,

you are my brother forever. But that's a nearly like four hour movie. You know, it's, it's a pretty, it's a, it's a long jaunt into Jerusalem. This one is like,

it's pretty cool. I think it's like decent. It's like bad gladiator, but it's not what that film could have been and has been now recognized to have been. Did you find that the director's cut

vastly improved your opinion of this movie or were you still like, it's not my vibe? It's not not my vibe and it obviously is more successful than 99% of the films that are on the potential list for this year um it just is it feels a little bit ill-conceived okay um and the fact that it needed

its four hours to do its story indicated that there was something i mean look it's a william monaghan script william monaghan at least in this time was famed for writing these 300 page scripts that were these like ornate literate complicated overlong stories they shot the script

but then they couldn't make it into a movie I mean it's basically a mini series that you now have to watch in a movie setting so I think it's just it's not exactly

what I want from this kind of experience personally but you know this kind of goes back to that fantasy conversation I was having with Joe last week, which is like, stories like this are hard to tell

in the compact movie format. There are not a lot of great medieval movies. There are not a lot of great battle movies like this. There are not a lot of great fantasy movies for this reason too. So if this were today, this obviously would be a 10 part. Sure.

You know, Ridley Scott, epic, you know, filmed television series. It would be like five years worth of TV. I would be so bored. God you know Ridley Scott epic you know filmed television series it would be like five years worth of TV and I would be so bored god I was so bored

last night watching the dragon show anyway I also felt the house of the dragon yes yeah whatever

the watch podcast was good I'm only 20 minutes in though I'll let you know when I'm done you let Chris know when you complete all of his podcasts

that's really weird. I get a notification on Spotify. Chris is on like 40 pods a week. That's true. Okay, so you got the Scott Brothers.

Yeah. The Scott Brothers duo, which I assumed you would and I wouldn't take it away from you. I have another pick. I'm taking a film that was a bomb

that starred at the time one of the biggest movie stars in America. That is directed by one of my favorite filmmakers. I'm taking it in comedy. I'm taking The Weatherman. Have you guys seen The Weatherman? No, but this came up a lot on your Nicolas Cage podcast. It certainly did.

I want to say. I would say Van Lathan and I are both big fans of this film. Yeah. Is this Gore Verbinski? It's Gore Verbinski. Yeah, that's your guy. While I'm on the Nicolas Cage podcast

before you move on to talk about The Weathermen, did you not, you guys ultimately didn't put National Treasure. We did not. I would like to register my complaint about that.

Well, you are the 10,000th person. Thank you. Amanda. You know what? There are consequences in life and this consequence is me

sitting across the table from you being like, what the fuck? I think National Treasure is okay. I was dropping messages in the Zoom chat the entire time being like, this is not a document of history. If it's not in there, he steals the Declaration of fucking Independence. And I think Van even made like an incredible case for, Van was advocating for it. He was. And you and Rob were like, no. for, Van was advocating for it. He was. And you and Rob were like, no. Well, Van is once again, is good at podcasts and he was right.

Perhaps. Okay. Talk about The Weatherman. I prefer The Weatherman to National Treasure personally. This is a story about a weatherman who is widely disrespected and then makes an effort to turn his life around. And it's a beautiful story. It's very funny.

This is the movie in which Nicolas Cage has a giant like ice cream shake thrown at his personage. Yeah. And it shatters. Great cast. Michael Caine, Hope Davis,

a young Nicolas Holt. I don't know. I think this is a really good film. Interesting example of Gore Verbinski always zagging. Yeah. You know? He makes pirates good film. Interesting example of Gore Verbinski always zagging. Yeah. You know, he makes pirates, boom, back to the weatherman.

Goes back to pirates, boom, Rango. Yeah. Love this guy. He's a chameleon. Cinematic chameleon. He truly is. Not a frog, mind you. A chameleon. He can change his colors.

I'm still just imagining your face when Chris goes, so he's a frog who's a sheriff. That was one of the great moments of my professional life. Oh my God. And you had to pee so bad. I know, but it was so funny. Okay. Well, you're up now, Amanda.

Two picks. Yeah. I guess I'm just going to, you know, pick the movies that I've seen. So I was nervous for about two seconds that you were about to take my comedy movie. I was thinking about taking this movie and I didn't. I know what it is. I will.

And I'm just skating right into all sorts of controversies today. But I'm just talking about the film itself. So I'll be taking Hitch. Oh, not what I thought you were going to say. Well, I have two picks. Okay, okay. So I'm going to take Hitch and comedy. Okay.

Oh, but maybe we're going to have some category issues down the road. Whatever. I'm taking Hitch. Hitch is bad. That's my take on that. What is with you not accepting people that we like and really liked in 2005 before things got wonky. Yeah.

In romantic comedies. I don't know. I just don't think this is a great use of his skills. Just take it. But it is him being movie star charming in a mainstream romantic comedy. This movie has a lot of Kevin James in it. That is tough. Oh, that's right.

A lot. But, you know, fast forward. Is this the one where he has like a allergic reaction to something? Yes. Uh-huh. Listen. This movie's not good. I know that there's like a little cult to this movie, too. Was this movie rewatchable?

I don't think so. It was possibly on the list. A lot of people really like Hitch. And I really enjoy the Will Smith, David Mendendes of all of it. Can you name any other films directed by Andy Tennant? No. And that's when I knew that you weren't drafting Hitch. He's made a lot of films. Has he?

Yeah. You want to hear some of them? Yeah. I'll bet you like some of these. Okay. You don't have to say it like that. No, I'm not. I'm not. Well, he made It Takes Two, the Kirstie Alley, Steve Guttenberg attempt to kind of elevate them into the Romantic Comedy Hall of Fame didn't work. Fools Rush In. Famed Salma Hayek, Matthew Perry vehicle. Ever After, A Cinderella Story.

Oh, that's a good one. That's Drew Barrymore, right? That's Drew Barrymore and Angela Houston. And is it Dougray Scott? Possibly. Is he the male lead? Anna and the King, the misbegotten Jodie Foster.

Oh, yeah. Non-musical The King and I. That's a hard no for me. Sweet Home Alabama. Yeah. Abominable film. Are you developing an anti-Reese stance? No, but I only like her when she's like purposefully mean okay i don't you know like

wild election i thought you were gonna say i only like her in inherent vice i do quite that's very very attractive to me yeah yeah um how dare you i we have what We have talked about this many times. My head just started hurting. I had to watch a Philadelphia Eagles game in 2013 or whatever was going on then. Let me tell you, it was dark days. I was still living in New York. So you watch the Eagles game. And it's dark.

And then it's dark. And then you go to the angelica which god loved the edge yeah but you know the seat falls out from under you and then you hear the train and then you have to go wait on the train and it's freezing because it's you know january or whatever it and then there were some did you lay into zach when that happened like what happened yes and then there was a fight on the C-Train platform. About how he was dictating your time? And I was just like, I just spent seven hours like on your bullshit.

Oh, this is a famous fight. Yeah. This is a famous fight on the C-Train. Like I just like, I can't deal with all of your bullshit. You know, I can give you five hours, but not seven. Everything you said is completely fair except the part about inherent vice. Okay. The other films that Andy Tennant made

are Fool's Gold, Kate Hudson, Matthew McConaughey, Vehicle. Oh, yeah. That's not bad. No, that's a tough one. That's when things

were getting bad for romantic comedies. What about The Bounty Hunter? This is when Gerard Butler was paired up with Jennifer Aniston. Right, so he did crash the romantic comedy genre

single-handedly in the late, after Hitch. So so hitch was like the last good thing we had and then all of those movies that you just named of romantic comedies reason that we can't have nice things anymore okay so that's that is tough but um so you got hitching comedy i got hitching comedy you got another pick yeah Yeah. So I consider The Family Stone more of a drama. I'm glad you got it. This is my wife's favorite Christmas movies.

And I was thinking about taking it in comedy, but it is sad as fuck. It is sad and tense. There are funny moments, but... SJP is pretty funny. Sarah Jessica Parker is very funny, but in an uptight, uncomfortable, verging on, not quite curb. And Jodie Foster directed this?

No, it's Thomas Bazooka. I think Home for the Holidays is the Jodie Foster film that is very similar to this film. The Family Stone has a 52% score on Rotten Tomatoes. Which is pretty low for a movie that is definitely not bad. I remember thinking this movie was pretty good when it came out. I saw it in theaters. It's just a bummer. I mean, it's a bummer, and it's weird,

and I think, you know, the Sarah Jessica Parker character is a tough hang, and that's part of the movie, but it, you know, dragged up a lot of likable, unlikable, you know, discourse, which no one really enjoys. It wasn't Carrie. Right, it wasn't Carrie. And then also, spoiler alert, if you haven't seen The Family Stone, she gets dumped in the movie for her sister, played by Claire Danes.

And everyone's just like, yeah, this is really normal. Dermot Mulroney plays her fiance who brings her home for Christmas. Diane Keaton is the mother. Craig T. Nelson is the father. Rachel McAdams and Luke Wilson are siblings. All star cast. I find it, you know, it's great actors kind of sniping at each other in a holiday setting. So it is kind of low key one of my, I really enjoy it as a Christmas movie as well. And I think a lot of people do. There's a real cult that's formed around it as a like rewatchable holiday

movie. Um, but it is, it's sad and weird and, uh, uncomfortable at times. So to this point, this is as good as I could predict

where we would go with this. Yeah. Now, I don't know if you could have predicted any of my picks, but I definitely had my eye on The Family Stone for you and Kingdom of Heaven for you,

perhaps Domino for you as well. I hadn't thought about Hitch because I was just trying to erase it from my memory, but it makes a lot of sense when you explain it. So it's your turn. It's my turn.

Twist of fate here. There's a Terrence Malick movie on the board. It's called The New World. And it's your turn. It's my turn. Twist of fate here. There's a Terrence Malick movie on the board. It's called The New World. And it's a bomb. It's both a bomb and reviled. 63% on Rotten Tomatoes. I believe this is Malick's first film since The Thin Red Line.

So we had another long interregnum between movies. This movie stars Colin Farrell and Koryana Kilcher. This is the story of And Bale. And Christian Bale. And Christopher Plummer. And Christopher Plummer. A number of people

are in this movie. All star cast as are all Malick movies. This is an ethereal telling of the story of John Smith and Pocahontas and the exploration of a new world.

It's one of the most beautiful movies ever made. I don't really understand why this movie has 63% on Rotten Tomatoes but later lesser Malick movies have higher scores't really understand why this movie has 63% on Rotten Tomatoes, but later, lesser Malick movies have higher scores?

Chloe Zhao loves this movie. Oh, that makes sense. She does the Criterion, I think she does like for Criterion, she does the like, oh no,

this is one of like my favorite movies that she did and Criterion has it on the Criterion channel. I think as we get to the

final stage of Malick's career. Are we in that? Yeah. Yeah, I think we're safe to say we're in it. Although, you know, he has like two to three films coming out in the next five years. The Jesus movie, right? He has a film about the Jesus. I don't know why I said that like I was in Big Lebowski.

The Jesus. I was like, don't fuck with the Jesus. He has a film coming out about the character of Jesus from Big Lebowski, which should be a really interesting take on that figure. Great performance by Turturro incoming. This is a beautiful movie.

It's not The Tree of Life, which I prefer, but it's Terrence Malick and it bombed and... If Jessica Chastain had played Pocahontas, would you like it as much as Tree of Life?

All right. You got your foot in the accelerator here with the nationalism. No, I would not. Koryanka Kilcher is a great actress. She's awesome in this. Isn't she on Yellowstone now? I think she is.

Oh, yeah. I think she's on Yellowstone. Okay. Yeah. I mean, Verbinski. Malick. Malick. Cameron Crowe. Yeah. Yeah. she is oh yeah i think she's on yellowstone um okay yeah i mean verbinski malik malik cameron crowe yeah yeah george lucas right remember when you made a joke last week about you know this podcast is just you listing movies that you've seen okay let's get chris you have some and directors as well let's not forget listing directors. So, so far I have

in Bomb I have Domino, in Drama I have Kingdom of Heaven, and in Razzie I have War of the Worlds. So I need action thriller horror, I need a wild card, and I need a comedy. Comedy was a tough one this year. It's a tough comedy here.

Mm-hmm. The exhalations from you on this pod are legendary because there's so there's a there's a little there's one that I want

to like maneuver into comedy that is not a comedy but it has a very funny performance that makes me laugh so it gets into questions of what is comedy

I mean we can be the arbiter if you'd like I love I love comedy I love existential questions about what is comedy. I mean, we can be the arbiter if you'd like. I love comedy. I love existential questions about what it is. Sure, so I'll throw it out there because I don't think

it's going to get drafted otherwise. I would like to ask if I may select the Al Pacino, Matthew McConaughey film Two for the Money. This is not a comedy. In comedy. I'm gambling again!

See, he laughed. I laughed at you because you always make me laugh but I this movie did not make me laugh okay

because if you look on the website wikipedia.com and you enter two for the money you will find that it is described as a 2005

American sports drama film could you call it a thriller because there's gambling no there's thrills

this is a drama okay I have two picks here that being said I liked what you tried to do yes and under normal circumstances I don't want to I understand

grind you and I will just so I will just say maybe I'll pick it for wild card down the line but I will say this movie may be the film I have seen the most

from 2005 I have seen this movie like 11 times. This is an ultimate you and Bill. We have to do it. So it's about Matthew McConaughey is a savant sports gambler. Okay. Who this is back in 2005,

where like sports gambling picks were done on like network television or like UHF or whatever. And you would just go on and there would be a guy being like, I like the dolphins plus three. I like the giants to cover. three. I like the Giants to cover. And I like, you know, and it would just be like- This is another

spinoff podcast opportunity for you, just so you know. And that's who Pacino plays is the old grizzled veteran and he hires, he hires Matthew McConaughey's character because he's just like, got it.

And it's all like cosmic to him. And Rene Russo plays Al Pacino's wife, but there's a little bit of a love triangle going on. And it's just an absolutely dazzling movie. It was written by Dan Gilroy, which is just mad funny to me. You love when a young up-and-comer

boinks his mentor's wife. That's one of your favorite bits in a movie. When else did that happen? I like it. I've seen you that happen that I like I've just I've seen you out in the wild I've thought you know um so I'm not picking that

glad we glad we got through it though uh I will take in action horror I'm gonna take Wolf Creek okay interesting

I don't think I'll go to Australia because of this movie this movie has one of the best coolest horror setups. It's basically like an hour. I think it's of these two women who are taking a road trip through Australia

and they meet like a surfer guy who's like, oh, I can, like I'm going that way too. And they are like, you know what we have to do though is drive across the outback including a large tectonic plate

that is essentially like a magnet so we can't use any electronic devices while we're out there. And they get out there and you're like, well, I hope they make it through

and they do not. Because there is a guy who like skins people who has a shed. We should make Amanda watch this. She would get through the first hour fine because people are like

in the sun and like when it turns though yeah it's so fucked up it's like it's pretty body horror at certain points but

it's very gruesome this movie rules so I'll take Wolf Creek in action horror and I guess because I have to take one from the genre and I had my eye

on Family Stone I'll take Fever Pitch for comedy oh wow what I mean like what are we talking about here Bill's gonna run in here and yell at you I mean I can give you my eye on Family Stone, I'll take Fever Pitch for comedy. Oh, wow. What? I mean, like, what are we talking about here? Bill's gonna run in here

and yell at you. I mean, I can give you like a few outstanding, we all have our comedy now, yeah? Yeah. I mean, is Fever Pitch better than the following films? Waiting,

the restaurant comedy starring Ryan Reynolds? You think it is? I think so. I think that movie's not bad, honestly. I haven't seen it. As much as I'm no longer a Ryan Reynolds guy.

There's a lot of pubes jokes in Waiting. Okay, what about the Ice Harvest? Have you seen that? I have, and it's fine, but I think I've watched not bad, honestly. I haven't seen it. As much as I'm no longer Ryan Reynolds. There's a lot of pubes jokes in Waiting. Okay, what about the Ice Harvest? Have you seen that? I have, and it's fine, but I think I've watched Fever Pitch. If I have like a Ice Harvest on channel one and Fever Pitch on channel two,

I think I probably watched Fever Pitch. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? Did you see that? I don't think I did. No. It's really not bad. It's not great. I never read the book either.

But it's Garth Evans. Okay, when am I seeking that out? I guess not. Yeah. Okay read the book either. But it's Garth Evans. Okay. When am I seeking that out? I guess not. Yeah. Okay. Here's a rumor has it. I have it on the, it's third. Okay.

It's the third. I had picked three, I brought three comedies with me to market. I was wondering if Amanda would go like make a bid for rumor has it. No. You can't get into it. No, I can't. I don't even really remember it. It's like, it's set in Pasadena.

Okay. I love Pasadena. Okay. I love Pasadena. And how does it work? Jennifer Aniston finds out that her parents are Anne Bancroft and Dustin Hoffman from The Graduate? Or the reason, that's who it was based on? She finds out that her mother may have been the Catherine Ross figure from The Graduate. She goes to find out whether or not she is actually the daughter

of the Benjamin Braddock. And that is Kevin Costner. it's very confusing because it's based on, The Graduate is a novel, so it's about characters, if the novel world were real and that book were nonfiction. It's like they're the inspiration for the characters.

Yeah, it's like there's this movie, The Graduate, and it's like, what if you found out your parents were in the reason The Graduate was in it? I should have rewatched the other movie that is sort of a meta hollywood remake movie starring shirley mclean from 2005 which is bewitched oh yeah i wanted to ask you about this too yes i don't think that i'm gonna have to pick that so we can just talk about it now i mean like please know i tried my best to to find the case in my heart for any Nora Ephron movie, but for this one. And there was more to like in it than I remembered just because I forgot. It's, you know, it's Nora Ephron's movie about the movie industry. And so there are definitely like funny moments of it.

And, you know, half of it is shot at the Beverly Hills Hotel, which sure. Or, you know, like a book soup. That's fun. But I don't understand what's happening in that movie. Like quite the meta stuff just does not really make sense. So I had a pitch on this movie. Yeah. That was like, this is the Gen Z last action hero that in the 90s when last action hero came out, adults and adult critics were like, this is way too far up its own ass. Hugely unsuccessful movie.

Overwritten. Overconceptualized. Right. And it doesn't work. But when I was 12, I was like, this is one of the coolest movies. Last Action Hero. Yes. I was like, the idea of a world in which you can go into the movie world being a place you can go.

I was like, this is it. This is everything. Bewitched is kind of similar. Yeah similar in terms of how it's framed. It's sort of like, what if there was a TV show about a witch, but she's seriously a witch. In real life, she's a witch. And so the meta stacking story on top of story aspects of it. And honestly, I remember watching it in 05 and being like, I feel like this is kind of interesting and kind of good in a way? There are interesting parts of it. Like, you know, Nora Ephron is obviously identified with New York movies, but she grew up in Beverly Hills. And so having having her take on all of that is interesting. It's funny to compare it. She's trying to do some of the Nancy Meyers interiors and it's like it's not quite there,

but it's kind of there, but it's interesting. And it's like, you know, that she was like, I want to get some interior design going here. Like, I mean, I do think it's an influence because 2005 is after something's got to give. And then, you know, there's the holiday the next year. And there are obviously they were pitted against each other in a lot of ways because they're two successful female directors at that time. So it's interesting. And then I think the Nicole Kidman performance and that whole aspect of it is like pretty charming. It's kind of interesting. Yeah.

And I was thinking a lot about being the Ricardos as I watched it. And I was like, wow, I'd rather watch Nicole Kidman do this than do Lucille Ball. There are all those scenes on set while they're filming the show. Yeah. So similar. And that part's fun. The Will Ferrell character,

he's trying, and I love Will Ferrell, but it just makes no sense. And the pieces just don't come together, kind of. You seem bewitched? I haven't. Okay, so that's part of the reason

why you went with Fever Pitch. Make the case for Fever Pitch? I mean, I recall Fever Pitch being borderline unwatchable. Am I wrong about that? I think it's pretty easy to like i i think bill hates it because it's like the wire season five for him where he's just like no this is about the thing that i know and this was my story and not but famously based on i think a novel that

you like a lot novel about being an obsessive arsenal fan in england i i don't know i appreciate the fact that they're like, what's a creative adaptation for America? Was there an English adaptation about soccer? I don't remember. I think it might have been Colin Firth.

Okay. I think there might be one, but I can't remember. This is a Farrell-produced movie, Fever Pitch. It's from 1997, also called Fever Pitch, about European soccer.

Oh, yeah. It does talk Colin Firth. I've seen it. I don't remember it, but I've seen it. This movie's better? I just don't remember the call-in for i've read the

novel like two or three times like it's just it may have aged poorly but like it is pretty entertaining uh but hornby is hornby is he good are we like are we are we yeah he's good i

don't that's not what i meant um is he relevant still widely celebrated? Oh. His novels? I mean, I love his books. I think his books capture a very real thing that was like in the 90s and the early 2000s

of like the high fidelity fever pitch. And then he just became like a really expert kind of like storyteller, I think. Yeah. I like him. I just, I wasn't sure if he had entered any controversies I wasn't aware of. I read a more recent novel

of his that was about a woman at the seaside or something. Isn't it the one that the Ethan Hawke Rose Byrne one? Oh. Juliet Naked?

Juliet Naked. Yeah. No, I think I read a different one that was more set and was retro. Okay. But I liked Juliet Naked.

Me too. And he wrote Brooklyn, didn't he? Mm didn't he which is a wonderful movie um okay anyway how many times do you think we've said brooklyn is a wonderful movie on this podcast it's the ultimate like recommend to your grandma movie but it is a very good movie who's the guy searchers with in brooklyn uh it's it's your guy uh emory Cohen. That's right. What the fuck is Emery doing? I don't know. Where's he at? Emery Cohen in The Gambler

is probably one of the six or seven greatest film characters of all time. Like tennis pro who's also working with him. Yeah, but is stoned out of his mind and wearing like down vests,

but is also like, I'm the third ranked tennis player in the country. Fever pitch. Aside from the Drew Barrymore diarrhea scene pretty good.

That was on the poster as I recall. Yeah. That was the real Farrelly brothers like it's like a five minute montage of him like

cleaning her bathroom. That's cool. It's supposed to be like adorable. That's great. That's great. You just drafted that movie

that has that scene okay have you taken a comedy i have i took the weatherman right right um i was gonna take the family treasure because he doesn't buy you the constitution that's right that's actually my least favorite part of independence either really that's my least favorite part of the new world too is the the toilet scene i hate that scene where colin Farrell has to clean Pocahontas' toilet. That's a terrible scene. Action thriller horror is the one category

I have not drafted. You know that Malick probably has like there's like some unused footage of just like okay now you're going to clean the outhouse.

Okay? But you're going to think about rain hitting leaves. He probably does. He's got a lot of footage. My pick in action thriller horror is The Devil's Rejects. It's on my list.

This movie has the exact same Rotten Tomatoes score as Chris's pick, Wolf Creek, which is 54%. And this is why we shouldn't let people review horror movies. Because Wolf Creek rips as does The Devil's Rejects.

It doesn't. Devil's Rejects has one of my favorite title sequences. Doesn't Midnight Rider play over it? Yeah. And the freeze frame. Yeah. This movie is fucking sick.

I'm, this is Rob Zombie's second film after House of a Thousand Corpses. Yeah, which is tougher. But this is a better movie for sure. It's now part of this like series. It's like a world now that he's created with all these Sid Haig and Bill Mosley characters and kind of bringing back figures from Grindhouse movies and 70s movies.

And it's a huge homage to a lot of those movies. It's got lots of Texas Chainsaw Massacre influence. Rob Zombie has a new movie coming out this year. Amanda, I'm not sure if you're aware of this. He made a film version of The Munsters okay now The Munsters of course television show in the 50s and 60s about a family of kind ghouls

who live in the neighborhood that is very similar to the Addams Family but is not the Addams Family perhaps a bit schlockier this might be the worst trailer for the worst looking movie I've ever seen and I'm trying to figure out what the hell's going on. Because Zombie, good filmmaker,

has made some really interesting movies. Lords of Salem is really interesting. 31 is interesting. I think this movie is his best. The Devil's Rejects. The Halloween. He made a couple of really, not my favorite Halloween movies,

but he did something different with Halloween for sure. They were reviled, but they were also pretty interesting. And this Monsters movie which I'm going to encourage you to watch the trailer of as soon

as we finish this podcast looks like shit isn't funny and I think it's like a joke on society. Okay. I think. Like purposefully.

I can't wrap my head around I can't figure it out. So I need you to watch it as a non-biased observer. Okay. We can do it as like bonus content. Perfect. So catch on twitch amanda's twitch page which i think you're you crossed 100 000 followers on twitch right it's really exciting yeah um the devil's reedix is is

badass i love it so that's my my respect um okay it's me you're up i have two picks left i have bomb and i have wild card so bomb's interesting because I was going to try to take the squid and the whale. And then Sean took it off his list overnight. What, what time of night do you think that you deleted squid in the whale? Like two 20. As I shared with you before we started recording,

I was on all day solo parental duty. Right. So I had a whole day to just think about all the spreadsheet work I was going to do. It's not like you were just chilling out. You had the courage. Yes. It was a challenging period. And so I had just a lot of energy to expend on the creative world that we've all built together. So i i dug deep into this this document and um it was probably after 10 p.m okay but you think before midnight yes great because i collapsed at 11 30 yeah of course it is it's it's super draining i'm not even going to make snarky comments about that i hope

aileen feels better soon um so i did i took it off specifically because i left the long list of all of the films that grossed under $30 million in a document for us. But I left a couple in there that never played more than 1,000 theaters. And that's the threshold that we're looking at. Because that's ultimately what I think could be safely deemed wide release. The Squid and the Whale, I think, only played 500 theaters. It was only 500. I checked. So with that in mind, the Squid and the Whale didn't bomb.

It was a low-budget movie. It didn't get a wide release. It didn't have the normal P&A against it, et 500, I checked. So with that in mind, the Squid and Whale didn't bomb. It was a low budget movie. It didn't get a wide release. It didn't have the normal P&A against it, et cetera, et cetera. Okay. So there are two films on this list that I think could be identified as Amanda films.

Okay. I did not rewatch them and I do not remember anything about them. Okay. Your candor is appreciated well I said we were gonna get here and here we are it is the film proof which I believe stars Gwyneth Paltrow Jake Gyllenhaal and Anthony Hopkins and all I remember is Gwyneth Paltrow does math um I think Anthony Hopkins does math well I know but then she's the daughter and she maybe helps. Does she get to do math? Wow.

Is this a Tom? This isn't Tom Stoppard, is it? I believe it is. Yeah. Okay. No, it's Rebecca Miller. Oh. Is the screenwriter, but it's based on a play by David Auburn.

And I believe this is the follow-up film that John Madden made after Shakespeare in Love. Okay, sure. Right? Does that sound right? Yeah. Maybe there was one in between. Yeah. This is a bomb. This was a highly touted movie.

It's on the list. It bombed, yes. The other film is Prime. Oh, Proof and Prime. Proof and Prime, which I definitely confused in my... Because Prime also could be math related so Prime is the Meryl Streep

Brian Greenberg Uma Thurman comedy oh yeah where I think Meryl Streep is the mother-in-law right

Meryl Streep is the mother-in-law and Uma Thurman is the romantic interest for her young son played by Brian Greenberg who once upon a time

was a hot young thing. I mean, this is a real-time capsule. I think Juliette Lemon really likes this movie. And so I should have revisited it, but I don't remember anything about it. Definitely saw it, though. They used to crank these out back then. Yeah, they did.

And it was fun. What year is Something Borrowed? That's later. I want to say that's closer to 2009 because I was working. No, it's like maybe 2012 because I was working at Vulture at that time. Something Borrowed is 2011. Oh, wow. Incredible sweaters in that film.

Prime actually did some pretty good business. It made $67 million. It does, however, have a 50% score on Rotten Tomatoes. $67 million? business it made 67 million dollars it does however have a 50 score on rotten tomatoes 67 million dollars yes which would make it one of the 20 biggest movies of 2022 if my math is correct sure but you have it here on the bomb list maybe 67 worldwide yeah i think i made 22 million according to this it made 40 million dollars overseas you what? Meryl Streep and Uma Thurman. Uma Thurman in a very wonderful phase here. Proof has a 62% score on Rotten Tomatoes and made less than its budget of $20 million. Okay.

So you're picking between two movies that you haven't seen in 15 years? No, there's a third one that I also haven't seen in 15 years. Does it also start with PR? No. Okay. But I remember more about it just because, you know, it's an accessible premise. Okay. But I did see it in theaters. Should I do this? It was so cute.

All right. I'm going to do Mad Hot Ballroom. You remember Mad Hot Ballroom? Oh, yeah. Sure. Sure. This was very cute. Yeah.

The elementary school children learning how to ballroom dance. Yeah. It's a documentary very sweet liked a lot so this is your wild card this is no that's my bomb did this movie play a thousand theaters you have it on the list john i'm going with your document okay for once i bow at the shrine of the spreadsheet i made a mistake and the document is it not it only played 202 theaters god damn it sorry i neglected to delete this one this is your two for the money i was kind of wondering i was like madhob ballroom had like a mass release in 2005

this film was released by paramount classics i did see it at like lincoln center it's the most lincoln center movie of all time i'm sorry this is my mistake i'm sure there are others here well that's a very sweet movie that you should check out if you're, you know, everyone. Appreciate you. Proof versus Prime. How's the room feeling?

Like you have to pick one or the other? Yeah, I have to pick a bomb. I guess I would take Prime because I've seen it. Same. I have not seen Proof, but I have seen Prime. And it's Jake Gyllenhaal

in his like Donnie Darko yeah trying to I don't know he's like too anguished about math okay so I'll take prime

okay that's quite a journey well that was your fault so now yeah you can choose anything you want

I can never trust your spreadsheets again but you don't have to because now wildcard you can just pick whatever you want. No, I know. I would like to say I'm sorry. Okay, thank you. It's okay.

But also, shame on you for not looking it up ahead of time. I read your document. For not double-checking your work. Yeah. You know? You've put too much trust in institutions. And that's why we're in the place we're in in this country. Is that something you picked up at the birthday party this weekend?

I'm not going to overthink this. I'm going to take Brokeback Mountain and Walk Hard. It's just an absolutely beautiful film, both emotionally and visually, directed by Ang Lee,

who's one of my favorite directors, also directed Sense and Sensibility, another really beautiful film that the man can capture a landscape. My guy Larry? Yeah. On that script? Yeah.

And I guess this is a Jake Gyllenhaal performance that I can stand behind. Keith Ledger as well. Oh, are you kind of a... No, I just was comparing it to proof. Okay. You know? Yeah.

It's not math. It's his, you know, repressed love. And a great film. Should have won the Oscar. Difficult to argue. Yeah. With Brokeback Mountain which is

still great. There is there's a really funny joke in Bros the forthcoming comedy starring Billy Eichner about Brokeback and about movies like Brokeback

but I won't spoil that joke. Okay I have a pick. I have one category left. Is it Wild Card? It's Wild Card. I can pick any movie I want really from the year 2005. Yeah.

I'm taking the movie that amanda wanted to take which is the squid and the whale which is one of my favorite films of all time cod child of divorce uh certainly a very familiar park slope milieu that i was actually close to joining in circa 2005 a faux faux intellectual aspirant loser. You were doing a lot of like tattered corduroy jackets as you went into Complex.

Yeah, a lot of citing Herman Melville's work. We got to wrap this pot up so that I can go join that milieu right now. Yeah, that's right. Bobby, you are literally in your squid in the whale phase

living in Brooklyn. I interviewed Owen Klein last week who plays the youngest son in the Squid and the Whale. He has a movie out in theaters called Funny Pages.

And boy, it sure seems like he worked with Noah Baumbach after you see his movie. There's certainly some tonality there that is very familiar. This movie is extremely

cutting and dark and kind of mean. Have you guys talked about the White Noise trailer yet? We have not. We haven't. That's not a trailer.

Okay. Teaser? That's a teaser that's a teaser because i no one did anyone speak in that trailer driver does but just barely he only has no they all it's only one line it's so funny because sean and i have not talked about it but i did talk about it with chris and i said the exact same thing i was like they're just that's a teaser they're just trying to sell the movie we don't know you know it here's what i'll say it just doesn't look old enough to me it looks and this is a common issue with period pieces right now it it's shot digitally yeah and period pieces don't look good on digital that's true so i'm that's my my one hang up that's all i'll say yeah um it looks like stranger things yeah right yeah that's so that's not great um

nevertheless i'm still i still holding out hope. I got faith. But I agree with... I think we all fell a little shaken, but we're all still there. Chris, let me just also say to you, you need to stop spending as much time watching trailers. It's getting in your head. You know?

I love YouTube. And they're there. You love YouTube. Yeah, he does love YouTube. Interesting. Yeah. And that's great, but... Maybe that could be the home of the CR and Andy show.

YouTube? Circa 2032. Yeah. Yeah? How's your golf swing, Chris? I think YouTube really does, I mean, like, appeal to a lot of 60-year-olds. How is my golf swing?

It's... Oh, God. Well, I know that that's one of the things that got you... Honestly, I haven't really played much since we got back. I haven't either. Yeah. So in favor of YouTube is perfecting your golf swing yeah but I mean

I've found lots of other things to watch on YouTube since then since golf golf instruction political commentary have you been dissecting alternate histories

January 6th hearings or just looking how to perfect an algorithm that replies to the big picture Twitter feed I drafted the squid and the whale for my wild card. Chris, you have one pick left?

Yeah. You have wild card. I have wild card. There's a lot of great films released this year. There sure are. I'll take... I'm going to take Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. I know it.

Okay. I've taken Wedding Crashers. He just slammed the laptop closed. In other... I love to do that. Yeah. I love to finish the research part of the pod and then just slammed the laptop closed. In other, I love to do that. I love to finish the research part of the pod

and then just be with you guys. It's like you've bashed the bowling pin into the head of this draft. This is Shane Black's Neo Noir

with Robert Downey Jr. and Michelle Monaghan and Val Kilmer. I guess maybe one of the last great Val Kilmer performances is this in Spartan. Perhaps one of the last great Val Kilmer performances is this in Spartan. Perhaps one of the last great Robert Downey Jr. performances.

I would say Zodiac and some of his work in the Marvel Cinematic Universe has been valuable. I also, we both love The Judge. Speaking of cleaning up poop. I've never seen The Judge. You didn't? Nope. You didn't see The Judge with Robert Duvall? Nope.

It's The Judge with Robert Downey Jr. And Robert Duvall. Yeah. Robert Duvall's The Judge. I haven't seen it. Really? Yeah. Huh.

It has no interest. You've seen The Soloist, though, of course. I have seen The Soloist, yeah, which is a touching work. Actually, it's based on my work as a journalist, that film. This has some of my favorite dialogue in a movie in this decade of the of the church 2000s and it's just a fantastic mystery movie this or the nice guys which do you prefer that's a really tough question i think kiss kiss tries a little less doesn't try as hard as nice guys does and then i think nice guys does have like an hour of like shootouts

right? Yeah. But Nice Guys is fucking awesome. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang has. I don't want to choose my I don't want to choose between my children. Okay. Yeah. I mean they're both great. You've seen both those films? I have definitely seen Nice Guys. And did you like Nice Guys? Eh. That's

Gosling and Crow. Oh it's Crow that's right yeah I did I mean I like I do like I like anything that Ryan Gosling is in

you know he's very well used in the nice guys and he's very it's very Ryan Gosling he's in a film from 2005 that I

I watched a little bit of last night just to see if there was anything to it called Stay that was written by David Benioff and Ryan Gos gosling plays ewan mcgregor's psychiatric patient and seems to be i think it's uh perhaps containing the spirit of a of a recently deceased painter oh oh sure yeah

and then naomi watts is in it too naomi watts was just like, she was the biggest thing going. CTC. Cut the check. She was coming off the ring. She was. Now she is in, she's getting closer and closer to like Redbox movies. And it's disturbing me.

She's made a few of those. I watched a couple out of festivals recently. Other 2005 movies. Well, we can talk about some movies that, you know, are good. You know, like Grizzly Man.

No, let's keep it. Let's keep talking about bad news. You want to talk about the lower tier movies that we good, like Grizzly Man or Michael Haneke's Caché. You want to talk about the lower tier movies that we didn't draft? Like House of Wax. Yeah. So we didn't. Nobody took it. I think because we got two better horror films and you took an action movie. Yes.

Was there anything else you had your eye on? You did mention a bunch that you had your eye on throughout the draft. I tried really hard for Bewitched. And I just couldn't get there. I tried in a different way for Mad Hot Ballroom and did not get there. I had a couple that I kind of thought should be eligible. I mean, Walk the Line obviously was celebrated and nominated for many Oscars. But has since become, I don't want to say reviled, but people are pretty snotty about it. I think it's tepid.

It's tepid. And obviously Walk Hard really just cut its legs out from under it. So there was a place where I could almost defend Walk the Line in the spirit of this draft, even though at the time, you know, it's gone. It was celebrated. But it didn't bomb and it wasn't critically panned. But so, you know, I do enjoy Walk the Line

as a supportive example of that type of movie. Joe Wright's Pride and Prejudice was celebrated and Keira Knightley was nominated for an Oscar. But within the Austin community, let me just let you bring you up to speed on that. Austin as in Jane, not as in... Yeah, as in Jane, not as in... Keep Austin weird. Let me just let you bring you up to speed on that. Austin as in Jane, not, not as in.

Yeah. As in Jane, not as in. Keep Austin weird. Yeah, exactly. But I think that was maybe some of the spirit people didn't think it was quite Austin.

Jane Austen enough was like a little bit too romantic and sweeping. Not like hitch, which was just Austin. I, you know I think there was a Anthony Lane review of it that was like this isn't Austin it's Bronte classic Lane take

you know what I asked for two minutes of my own time here to talk about shit that's interesting to me that I'm going to read Heat 2 which is a 500 page book it goes by really quickly time here to talk about shit that's interesting to me that i'm gonna read participating heat too which is a 500 page book it goes by really quickly okay i so i just am sharing some brief pretty mainstream i love it i'm right here you guys would have the worst book club pod ever

amanda and i that's it but then it would just be talking about what we agree on, which are spy novels set during World War II. Yeah, we've decided that if there's... Huge market for that in pods right now. If it's ever a plot where a guy needs to be brought from East Berlin to West Berlin, Amanda and I are in. Okay, great. Forward to that show. What's it called? The Wall?

Oh my God. There we go. Let's knock it out. It would be great. I mean, it's an endless supply. Do you think that they would send this to Berlin? Like that could be our 100th go. Let's knock it out. It would be great. I mean, it's an endless supply. Do you think that they would send this to Berlin? Like that could be our 100th episode? Let's do it.

We can do it in between Cannes and Venice next year. Amanda's Grand Tour continues. Sean is just making a face at me. Anyway, I thought Joe Wright's Pride and Prejudice was excellent. And I really enjoyed it. And also like a great cast. Carey Mulligan. It's a very early Cary Mulligan performance.

Matthew McFadden. Yes. No, of course. As Darcy. I like his Darcy as well. His Darcy Fox, you know, which you kind of want. He's great in that. That's a good movie.

Okay. I think so too. We're team Joe right over here. I like almost, I would have put it in wild card, but I went with Brokeback Mountain, but it's a good one. Sierra, any bad ones that you considered beyond Two for the Money? I'd like to shout out the weird phenomenon, the fact that we had two thrillers set on planes this year,

and both of which I'm relatively fond of, which is Flight Plan and Red Eye. Red Eye didn't qualify for the criteria that you set. Flight Plan did. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. That the Wes Craven movie didn't qualify, but the Jodie Foster drama did qualify.

Jodie Foster was Sean Bean and Peter Sarsgaard. Yeah. Yeah. And that movie got bad reviews. Yeah. Red Eye is where Rachel McAdams is being stalked. On a commercial flight by Cillian Murphy. By Cillian Murphy.

And Flight Plan is where Jodie Foster is an airplane designer who is taking a transatlantic flight with her daughter and wakes up in the middle of the flight and her daughter's gone. I hate when that happens. When I design an airplane and then I get on the plane. I really hate that. That's a real tough beat. Other than that, is there anything I really want to shout out?

No. I mean, we touched on a lot of these. I mean, we didn't say history of violence in this podcast. I guess we should I mean that's one of the best movies of that year it was on my long list for wild card for sure is Siriana is the best thing about Siriana

it's trailer I think there's some very good performances Clooney's really good I think Clooney and Damon as a massive shitheel are both pretty good yeah I think it's pretty ill-conceived as like a dramatic object though

yeah and I tried to re-watch it I think for the Clooney Hall of Fame. And I was like, no bueno. No thanks. I kind of like Havoc because of it. My girl Anne Hathaway. Have you seen that film? That's like a thriller, right?

It's a really odd movie about like teenage girls who get enmeshed, entrenched in like a very dangerous life. Like it's basically like an update of kids it has some very like problematic aspects to it for sure in terms of the way that like say

the Latino community is portrayed in the movie sure but it's like a really effective thriller the weirdest thing about it by far is that it's the only narrative feature film directed by Barbara Koppel who's one of the greatest documentarians of all time.

Holy shit. I don't think I knew that. Yeah. And it's really weird that she made this movie. And I don't really understand why. I mean, this is a woman who made Harlan County, USA. She's a legend in filmmaking circles. And she was like, what I want to do is make a movie about 16-year-olds who fuck a bunch of gangbangers, basically.

You got to try things. I guess so. I mean maybe don't try that to all the 16-year-old girls listening. No don't try that. But you know.

I think if I would've drafted it people would've been like Sean is poisoned but I've definitely seen it twice which is more than I can say for a lot of the films left on this list.

Alright let's just do a quick recap. People have asked that we change the way that we recap this thing. Why? They want to know each person's movies

all together. Okay. What do you think about that? Should we do that? It's fine with me. Okay. Should we do it? Do we have to read them ourselves

or are you going to do it all? You want to read yours? No, go ahead. I like you guys reading them yourselves in your own voice. I demonstrably closed my laptop for the second time

because I was trying to be present. Amanda, why don't you start? Okay. In drama, I took The Family Stone. In comedy, I took Hitch, which I enjoy. For Razzie nominee, I took Batman Begins. Action thriller, I took Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

In bomb, after some setbacks, I took Prime. Shout out to Juliette Lipman. And in wildcard, I took Brokeback Mountain. CR? In drama, I took Kingdom of Heaven. In comedy, I took F. Shout out to Juliette Lipman. And in Wild Card, I took Brokeback Mountain. CR? In Drama, I took Kingdom of Heaven. In Comedy, I took Fever Pitch. In Razzie Nominee, I got War of the Worlds because the Razzies were trolling that year.

Action, Thriller, Horror, I got Wolf Creek. Bomb, I got Domino. And Wild Card, I got Kiss Kiss Bang Bang. Okay. In Drama, I got The New World from Terrence Malick. In Comedy, I got The New World from Terrence Malick. In comedy, I got The Weatherman from Gore Verbinski. In Razzie nominee, I got Star Wars Revenge of the Sith. Was good then, is good now. In action thriller or horror, I got The Devil's Rejects. In bomb, I got Elizabeth Town.

And in wildcard, I got The Squid and the Whale. That's our draft. Successful or unsuccessful? I like most of my movies. Chris? It'll be really interesting to try this again. I thought it was successful by all means, but I'd be curious to see what happened when we didn't have the Razzies that were good. Ah, yes, I agree. Okay, well,

tune in one year from now and we'll do this again. Thanks, Amanda. Thanks, Chris. Thank you to Bobby Wagner all the way from squid in the whale territory in Brooklyn for his production work on this episode see you next week

on the big picture when I will return with a report from the Telluride Film Festival are you going to be doing remote are you going to be doing like

no I need to be in studio with my in studio partner Amanda Dobbins okay good so you're going to take notes and bring back some reportage yeah but I'll take photos of my notebook

and send them to you after I've seen films okay including with all of the endings revealed see you then some reportage. Yeah, but I'll take photos of my notebook and send them to you after I've seen films. Okay. Including with all of the endings revealed. See you then.