The Big Picture - The 2021 Movie Star Ranking: 35 Under 35. Plus, the Catastrophe of 'Dear Evan Hansen.'

Episode Date: September 24, 2021

It's back! We revisit our controversial list of young stars 18 months later and determine what we got right, what we got wrong, and where movie stardom is going in 2021.  Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join Justin Charity and Micah Peters in Sound Only as they discuss their deepest, darkest thoughts about the millennial lifestyle, rap music, video games, anime, YouTube, social media, and their underlying themes. Check out Sound Only on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about movie stars and those who desperately want to be one. Last March, in the early days of the shutdown in the United States, Amanda and I whiled away the hours on this show by creating a completely arbitrary list of the top 35 movie stars under the age of 35, using our own parameters, our own brains, and our own feelings. People were kind of mad about the list. What did we get wrong? How has the landscape changed? And who has emerged in the past 18 months to surge onto the list? We revisit and re-rank our 35 in today's episode.

But first, let's talk about youth, or at least an attempt at representing youth. I'm talking about the weekend's big release, Dear Evan Hansen, which is in theaters on Friday. Where to begin? Amanda, Dear Evan Hansen. What is Dear Evan Hansen, Amanda? So it is an adaptation of a Tony-winning musical, which we'll come back to. And it is about a young man named Evan Hansen who is having a very difficult time in high school, going through some mental health issues, some social anxiety issues, and has been encouraged to write himself letters of, you know, like self-belief and positive thinking.

One of these letters falls into the hands of another person. And I mean, should I just, I'm just i'm gonna i think we should just say it because we need to talk about what this film is about um another troubled student at the high school who then takes his own life and the parents of this second teen find the letter that evan hansen has written to himself. They believe that their son wrote this last letter to Evan Hansen before he killed himself and then assume that Evan Hansen, this teen with no friends, actually had a beautiful friendship with their now deceased child. And the main character, Evan Hansen, goes along with it.

And it's like, yeah, he was my friend and invents a whole story and friendship and ultimately like a philosophy on how to live and connect with other people that becomes like essentially a hit TED Talk on the internet. And then he becomes something of a mental health advocate, but really just sort of a friendship, a community, a care for other people, like a wellness figurehead popular on the internet. And then things sort of unravel, but for the most part, no one is held responsible for any of the choices made in the musical and the movie.

And then people sing songs about discovering themselves and it ends. Yeah, that is the one part I want to underline. You just described the bones of the story very accurately. And it's a musical. This story is a musical. And so, of course, the characters break into song as this story unfolds. I thought this was a very troubling movie, a movie that really did not work for a variety of reasons. And I think neither you nor I saw the show on Broadway. And so we don't really have a relationship to the show. It was a big hit. And of course,

it was Tony winning. But it is unnerving. The film is unnerving in a variety of ways, in part because of the characterization, in part specifically because of what made me think of revisiting our 35 under 35 list, which is the casting of Ben Platt, who of course, I believe originated the role on Broadway and is now 27 years old. And so he, and frankly, he looks like he's 37 years old at times in this film. And so he is strange in the part of Evan Hansen, who is supposed to be a 16 year old boy. I think you didn't really respond to this movie either, but what did you think of it? I was appalled and I was appalled on several levels. And this is not original. I think like the reviews, this movie premiered at TIFF and I have not seen very many people who had anything, but negative things to say about it. It was a total misfire. A lot of the reviews, and I would say a lot of my

displeasure, focus on the source material. I just cannot believe that this musical won six Tonys and that people didn't ask any questions about its handling of suicide or mental health or any of the characters in the musical. And we're just like, sure, we can sing this away. So I suppose that's not totally the movie's fault, though I guess the decision to make the movie we could investigate. I'm sort of hoping that this is like the last Broadway heat check

that sort of started with Hamilton, which became a massive success. And Hamilton on its own as a musical that you and I were lucky enough to see in theaters, fantastic achievement. Then it got really popular. Everyone involved with Hamilton really wanted to cash in. Everybody who was not involved in Hamilton was like, how can I recreate Hamilton? And everybody with a Broadway show is like, great, we're going to Hollywood, baby. And let me tell you, some things should have just stayed in this small insular theater community where maybe everyone thinks that this is okay. Because I just don't, who thought it was a good idea to make this musical, let alone this movie?

It doesn't connect for me. Well, there's a lot of interesting things to unpack about that. Obviously, we got things like cats over the last couple of years that were just totally misbegotten. Just a complete misunderstanding of what even the appeal of that show was originally to people and should not have been adapted into a movie. And it's kind of an amazing failure and a hilarious failure in a way. This movie I see as something a little bit different because it's directed by Stephen Chbosky, who has directed films about these kinds of characters in the past. He made a really good movie, I thought, The Perks of Being a Wallflower, about 10 years ago, starring Ezra Miller and Logan

Lerman, that has a very similar kind of framework to Dear Evan Hansen. It's about kids who are kind of like on the outside of social circles who are struggling with elements of depression and a kind of social anxiety. And that movie is not a musical. I think it's fairly sophisticated. I know for a lot of kids who saw it at a young age, it made them feel a little bit safer, a little bit more seen in the world. And that can be a powerful thing. This is a musical that very much wants to do the same thing. It wants people who struggle with anxiety and depression to see that you're not alone right that's a big theme of the film is you're not alone unfortunately all of the kids who are struggling in this film and it's not just evan hansen and it's not just that character that you talked about who takes his own life

it's it's a lot of the characters it's a lot of the students in the film there's a kind of community unfortunately all of these kids are seen to be doing heinous things to each other and not creating a safe community. In fact, doing the opposite. We don't want a movie where people don't make mistakes and don't do bad things, but it really is at war with the idea of kind of better understanding characters like this, as opposed to only showing them to be doing things that seem downright sociopathic in the movie and really destructive to other people's lives. In addition to the fact that, you know, you've got Chbosky who makes these, I think, fairly grounded teen, you know, dramas and dramedies, trying to incorporate that style into the musical style in which people just start singing. And so you get this almost like uncanny valley experience where this is not a Rodgers and Hammerstein musical,

where the kind of grandeur and the color and the scope and the dancing all make sense. This is something much, much different. It's a much more kind of, it's attempting to use movie realism in a way that is very difficult to pull off in musicals. Very few musicals have been able to effectively incorporate both styles.

And so the movie, like, many times really just, like, actively does not work to the point where you will step outside of your body while you're watching it and be like, whoa, this is not good. That being said, I'm going to include a new dad caveat here. Home Depot theme song, let's go. There are like two or three times in the movie when I was like, it is crushing to be a parent. My children are so vulnerable to the world. And there were a couple of songs that worked really well and I was in tears. So that's the thing, the movie manipulates. All movies manipulate, but this movie really manipulates.

And sometimes it does so effectively. It might be the kind of thing that mainstream audiences see and actually respond to because it is so relentless in terms of pushing you towards sadness and a sense of like overwhelming grief. On the other hand, if you pull yourself out of it, it's so mawkish and so ridiculous that it ultimately was like a mixed bag for me, even though I know in my heart of hearts, it's not a good movie. So it was ultimately the songs that had an emotional effect on you, even like it's a new dad emotional effect, which we, I mean, we really just do have to put all the blinkers around that.

It's a very, very special, it's a special and beautiful time that you're in. And I'm really, for the most part, I'm trying not to make fun of you, but like i i can support a lot of things but like you crying at dear evan hansen songs is gonna go on the like mocking column just just fyi i i'm just being open with you because i trust you and i trust the listeners of this show i i truly i love your relationship with your daughter and like well to this. But here's the thing.

It's not as if it's a compliment, really. I'm crying at UPS commercials right now. You know what I mean? I'm just like- I cry at FedEx commercials all the time. The one where they're like FedExing the little baby heart for the baby transplant. Come on, gets me every time.

Yeah. This I didn't cry at. There are cheap ways to manipulate people with music, with score, with a certain kind of image, with a certain impression that someone that you care about is in danger. It's a tried and true method in storytelling to get people to soften up and to get them to take in what you're trying to do. On the other hand, because of this uncanny valley thing and because Ben Platt looks like a middle-aged man in the middle of the movie there's something so disorienting every time you're watching it uh it is it is a fascinating pop cultural artifact do you think i don't know if it is that i really isn't it because it feels

like it's like it is doing things that will be representative of this time like it's a it's a it's a story that isn't going to age well because it's like, it's yet another story about how dangerous the internet is when you're a teenager and like what positive things it can provide and also how it can take things away from people. 20 years from now, our relationship to the internet

might be totally different. It might not even be the dominant aspect of communication, but this movie is trying to reflect something that is happening right now. So to me, like I really didn't like that the movie was about that. I'm sick of movies about that, communication but this movie is trying to reflect something that is happening right now so to me i like i really didn't like that the movie was about that i'm sick of movies about that but it strikes me as something that we'll look back on and be like damn remember that remember when that was

the key talking point in our culture around teenagers this isn't the first movie or tv show to address some of the issues in the film either and it's a very big issue among parents, among kids in school, among kids who spend a lot of time on social media, etc. I think I found it so inept, especially because I could not connect to the songs at all. And I did go back and read many reviews of the musical itself to try to understand what was happening. Because this was like an absolute sensation. A hit, like I i said it won best musical it won best original score for a musical at one best book of a musical it won like for the ideas the music the ben platt performance all of the above and i the reviews did focus on the songs

as a you know an expression of emotions and a level of achievement there that I think because of the movie context and the attempt at realism and also frankly, the disconnect between Ben Platt as a, an actor and the character that he's trying to portray, which we'll talk about. I just couldn't even invest in the songs. So to me, I was like, I don't know what's happening here, but that could also be me rejecting a form of, of, of entertainment or I I'm sorry, I can't call it art, but, um, something that, uh, that speaks to other people. We have to talk about the Ben Platt of it all. He is a visibly 27-year-old person playing not just a teen, but a teen who is really going through the teen of it all.

And I think the only, not even justification, but kind of situation in which this setup could be plausible is that it's a young person who is having a lot of problems and is also young and doesn't have experience and doesn't totally realize what they're doing until it's too late and things get out of your control which which happens to people of all ages but especially especially to teens. Really hard to buy into that when it is just like a very grown man, like a grown up, just a grown person. Well, I think he's someone we've never talked about on the show before. Obviously, Ben Platt is best known for his work on Broadway. He was a child actor who had a lot of success in

the early 2000s. He's gone on to be a very well-known kind of singer and live performer. It's not as if this is his first film. He's been in the Pitch Perfect movies. He was in Ricky and the Flash. He had a Netflix show called The Politician. He's done a lot of on-screen work. That being said, one of the really tricky parts of this movie is that we haven't even mentioned the fact that Julianne Moore is in this movie. Amy Adams is in this movie. Amy Adams, call your agent. It's tough. It's a tough, tough spot for her. And fire that person and get a new one. I mean, Caitlin Deaver is in this movie. There's a handful of really established and gifted screen actors in the film. And Ben Platt is kind

of just doing his performance from Broadway. It's really overstated. He's really slouchy and awkward. His hands are doing a lot. He's very much playing for people sitting in the balcony, which is not screen acting. Screen acting is much more subtle. Even in a musical, you have to restrain yourself. And he's been directed into a performance that does exactly what you're talking about. It makes him seem like he should be a dad at Home Depot. He's like too big. He's too old. He's too mannered and awkward in a way that is so recognizable and seems so performing. It seems like he's in an episode of The Muppet Show while Julianne Moore is trying to be in a grounded universe. Or it seems like he's in Pitch Perfect, or it seems like he's in The Politician,

which was a Ryan Murphy show, which is just a different level. I mean, it's a different energy. It is a different energy. And a lot of people really like it. I think it's never been our taste. We should be fair. This is not a movie or a musical

that is to my or Sean's taste. It is not. But I think even independent of that, it just is not working. And his performance really stands out. It really doesn't. So I wonder if you had recast this film with a younger actor, if it would have been

more successful. I mean, to its credit, not only is Chbosky involved, but the show is written by Benj Pasek and Justin Paul, who people know wrote songs for La La Land and who wrote The Greatest Showman and have a pretty long track record of success in this space. The Greatest Showman is another one of those post-Hamilton projects that really popped and really kind of set off this big movie musical boom that we're kind of living through in 2021.

I wonder if with a younger kid, if let's say you just cast Noah Jupe from A Quiet Place in that part, who looks like a kid, you know, who is in Honey Boy, who is... He should go on summer vacation, I think. I think Noah Jupe's incredibly talented and it's like the only kid in the world, you know? He's working a lot. He's working a lot. So at this point, I think Noah Jupe would be bringing all of his Noah Jupe to it. But a Noah Jupe-like individual, I see what you're saying. That would have been better. Although it's not as if Caitlin Dever is 16 years old either.

She's also, I think, in her mid-20s. And it would have been weird to have Noah Jupe making out with Caitlin Dever. That's the thing. We've been through this for like 70 years in American entertainment, where we insist upon casting people in their late 20s to be in high school. We saw this in Saved by the Bell in 90210. Over the years, we saw this 60 years ago on network television. I don't know why we do this.

Maybe it's just because audiences will not accept someone who is actually a child. Why do you think we keep going back? Well, I don't know a lot about child labor laws, but I do know it's easier to work with someone over 18. Also- That's a good point. I think, I know Jupe's a wonderful actor and I didn't mean to suggest that he like needs to retire,

but I think one of the, no, seriously, he just like, he's working a lot. But I think one of the reasons that he is cast so regularly, I mean, he's a known quantity. Not everyone at 15 is a great actor and has control of their facilities and can make decisions and do what you need to do,

both in terms of like time spent and like emotional maturity, but also just acting. So you go for the slightly older people. I don't mind it on 90210. I mean, that's like part of the appeal of it. But this movie is otherwise going for a level of emotional quote reality that just doesn't work when it's grown-ups do you think this movie's gonna be a hit no that was a pregnant pause well i mean i was thinking about it because the greatest showman

is an example of a movie that grew over time and a movie that is i think was served by the audience that is not the audience that of of you and and me and listeners of this show but a real audience that exists so i think there are people out there who love to watch musicals and who don't mind family stuff and who don't even mind some of the treacly emotional aspects of this, who in fact are looking for that. It has not been well reviewed. And I do think we're overestimating the appeal of a hit Broadway show that isn't Hamilton in terms of getting

people out to the theaters. And people really aren't going out to the theaters in massive numbers for anything that isn't an MCU movie. I mean, it could be a relative hit. I don't know. What would the definition of a hit be for you, for Dear Evan Hansen? I genuinely don't know. Maybe $50 million at the box office, I feel like would be a good showing for a film like this. Five-zero? Total, like during its domestic run. Oh, okay. I was like, this is not making $50 million.

Opening weekend, I think $10 million would be huge. Like, I don't, you know, I don't see it being a big hit, but it might have some of that slow burn life. Now, one thing that complicates a movie like this, not to get too in the weeds about it, but it's a universal film. Universal has been abiding by the 17 day window

before they put things on digital. Candyman, I noticed that film is already available for rental on iTunes and Amazon, et cetera. So if it doesn't pop right away, it might be hard for it to have that holiday run that The Greatest Showman had,

where it kind of seemed like it bombed in the first weekend. And then over Christmas in July or in January, it grew and grew and grew and grew and had great word of mouth. Dear Evan Henson might have the opposite. It might have like toxic word of mouth. Though I do wonder once it's available on streaming, is there like a 13 reasons why, you know,

run to it for teens who are interested in it? And then there is like, like you know the outcry of because this movie does not handle serious issues responsibly it just doesn't so then you have sort of like the parental or like whatever group backlash which then makes people more curious about it i don't know i could see it becoming like a tempest in a teapot it could be and but i think that only happens on streaming. It could be. We shall see.

I'm personally fascinated because it's rare for a film like this to come along where you've got, you know, not an unknown, but a relative unknown to movie audiences. Certainly not someone who you can put at the top of the bill. The star is really

the Dear Evan Hansen part of it. And you're right. Broadway musicals don't necessarily always draw in crowds. Let's talk about what's going on with musicals this year. We've already seen In the Heights, I think is considered one of the big disappointments of 2021 in terms of the amount of engagement it got on HBO Max, certainly in terms of its box office receipts, it being a Lin-Manuel Miranda project, it being a John M. Chu project. It's a lot of people who've had a lot of success. It doesn't really seem like a ton of people clicked into that film,

which, you know, I think like I was pretty mixed on. I think some of it worked really well and other parts of it were a little bit overdetermined. And then we saw Annette, which is a different kind of a musical, but a musical nevertheless. Sure. But, you know, I think In the Heights is comparable in that it's not existing IP to most people,

but it was an adaptation of an extremely popular stage production that won a lot of awards and has famous theater people involved with it. And that is just a lot of people letting their weird flags fly. Yes. Which I think is great, by the way. Yeah, Leos Kar character should be given all the money by amazon to make movies for as long as he wants that would be wonderful even though i didn't totally click with the net right we saw respect this year which is a biopic but it's also

basically an aretha franklin musical do you ever get around to the k canon adaptation of cinderella yes how'd you disaster i i again i try to be patient with things that are just obviously not Amanda projects, despite the evidence of this entire podcast. But I do try to put some boundaries on my reactions to these things. And I knew that that was not going to be for me. But I really thought even in that context it was horrible and really like the worst lessons of Hamilton pitch perfect internet feminism and like what a top 40 singer should be right now even the way that everyone decided to perform those songs within the context of Cinderella very talented singers just doing their best Christina Aguilera impression.

I'm really not sure what was going on. Yeah, that is a jukebox musical adaptation of Cinderella. And it is a bad beat. It is like one of the bad beats of all time. I was watching it like at 8 o'clock in the morning with the baby. And I was like... I asked you specifically to not let your daughter be in the room while this was being aired. I just don't think it's good for at any age.

I agree. I regret watching it. I haven't had a chance to watch Everybody's Talking About Jamie yet, but that premiered this month on Amazon. I don't know if you've seen that one. I haven't. It's gotten mixed reviews. And then we have three big musicals still to come this year.

We've got Tick, Tick, Boom, and Andrew Garfield is out there pushing this movie. This is the Jonathan Larson, what started as a one-man show come this year. We've got Tick Tick Boom and Andrew Garfield is out there pushing this movie. This is the Jonathan Larson, what started as a one-man show and ultimately has been adapted into a bigger project about him attempting to write his way onto Broadway. Garfield stars as the late Larson who of course wrote and created Rent before passing away at the age of 38. We'll see about that one. I really want great things for Garfield. I always just, I want him to win. I really do too. And I just, a lot of it is picking projects and both in terms of the projects being successful, but also is Andrew Garfield the right person for that project? You know, we haven't quite found it yet. I believe one day we will.

I agree with you. We also have West Side Story coming from a little filmmaker known as Steven Spielberg. I'm looking forward to this movie. I'm still a little bit

confused about it. Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to it. Same. I will see it. I'm excited. And then your boy Joe Wright is entering the awards fray with Cyrano,

an adaptation of Cyrano de Bergerac musical. He's your boy too. You really like him. I do 50% of the time. Sure. 50% of the time I think he's dope. I loved it. That would be a good take.

That would be the zag of all zags. I know. If you were like Pan is the true IP, the one true IP, and Joe Wright got it right. Sometimes things work. Sometimes things don't. But the things that work for Joe Wright, we're all,

you, Chris, and I are all agreed on. I just, you don't need to abandon the hive now just because it's been through some tough times. I feel you. Hannah, Atonement, Anna Karenina, all gems. All gems.

And Pride and Prejudice. Yes. Yes. Pride and Prejudice. He's made some really good movies. He's in a weird run. we'll see with Cyrano I haven't seen that okay like I said this movie despite it being kind of a car wreck did get me thinking about young Hollywood Ben Platt despite looking a bit older is still only 27 does he make our list does he not make our list in addition to Ben Platt I mentioned Caitlin Deaver one of my favorite actresses. She's having quite a moment

right now. She's going to have an even bigger 2022. Amanda Stenberg is in this movie. She is, I guess for me, it was best known as the star of The Hate U Give, but has appeared in a lot of big projects like this too. She has kind of a complicated role in Dear Evan Hansen. So there's a lot of young,

talented performers in this movie. And it did make me feel a little bit better about this weird movie star project that we've kind of been bullshitting about for the past few years. It did make me feel like maybe it's not totally slipping through our fingers. There is something like movie stardom still happening in the world. Am I being too rose-colored glasses about this? I really believe in movie stardom and I like our list. I have no idea how you connected those feelings to Dear Evan Hansen. Well, this movie got greenlit. Sure. And it's an interesting study because in addition to those

young actors, you do have Julianne Moore and Amy Adams, two of the all-time great movie stars of a different generation, to compare and contrast. Now, they have very hard jobs and aren't given a lot to do or a lot of character to work with. I thought Julianne Moore did a great job in this movie. Exactly. But she does have to sing a very emotional song sort of at the climax. It is, to me, the most moving part, which I guess is just, you know, we're both very old at this point. It's really sad. That's a great song she sings, though. She's obviously not a classically trained singer like some of the other people in the film.

But she's singing, her performance is what I wanted the movie to be more like. And she's just able to modulate between the musical and the emotional tone of the movie and being a movie actor. She's, I mean, she's one of our great actors. So it's really not surprising. Amy Adams, I just, is not served by anything that's happening in this movie. And I feel really bad. But so it is a study in movie actors versus theater actors and movie stars and generations and where we're all headed. Let's talk about where we're headed.

We're going to talk about the list. We basically kept the same parameters. Last time we talked about this, which is to say 50% of what you've done so far, 25% of what's next and 25% of what you could be. That's a very rough approximation. There's going to be some examples on this list in which people are like,

this person hasn't done shit. Why are they on the list? Hey, it's our list. Yeah, we're in charge. That's kind of how I feel about this whole thing. You want to talk about our changes from last year, about who is not available to be on this list right now? Sure.

You're really setting me up for this. So here's what it reads in the outline, which I thought was pretty harsh. Just cut due to relevance and then four names. And that's literally, Sean wrote it. And I was just like, well, all right. Do you disagree with any of these picks? No, but relevance is like pretty tough.

Basically, they have not been in the movie in any movies or the movies that they're in really did not do well and it just kind of seems like the past year plus the upcoming six months to the next year they just other people have more things cooking and so the people who have been cut from the list damn i, I can't believe you're making me do this. I feel like Peter Gallagher in center stage. It's okay. O'Shea Jackson, Henry Golding, Hayley Lee Richardson, who I think is like probably the most underrated actor of her generation. We just should be spending more time with her, but the movies aren't so we can't. Andas hedges which i was surprised to see lucas hedges like the great you know future of sensitive actors on this list but he hasn't been doing much lucas hedges does not have a film project coming up period every single other person we'll talk about here has something

coming up i have no idea what lucas hedges is doing this is a little disrespectful to let them all talk i mean it came out it already happened there's like literally nothing on the horizon would you like to explain the formula i mean i did already it's like what what have you done and what are you doing you know what what could you be you can't be anything if you don't make any more movies you wrote percentages down here and it's 50 percent what you've done so far 25 what's next and 25 what you could be so lucas hedges is probably 75 still in the mix but it's been a quiet time i'm a big fan of lucas hedges people have heard me cry about waves and any number of other lucas hedges films over the years on this show so there's no

confusion about how i feel about him likewise for o'shea jackson henry golding and haley lou richardson i like them in various stages henry golding was in snake eyes and that's probably There's no confusion about how I feel about him. Likewise for O'Shea Jackson, Henry Golding, and Haley Lou Richardson. I like them in various stages. Henry Golding was in Snake Eyes, and that's probably the biggest bomb of the summer. Haley Lou Richardson does not have a lot of big projects lined up at the moment. She does have one film where she's reuniting with Koganada after Yang, which I'm really looking forward to. But a lot of new people hit the list this year. We did lose some other people.

We lost them in the sense that they turned 35, not in that they died, though it can sometimes feel like the same thing. Exactly. A similar form of irrelevance. You may as well no longer be known to the TikTok generation once you pass 35. Some of these actors are in wonderful stages of their careers, and they're going to continue to get more and more famous, but they can't make this list. So who are those actors? So number one is Carey Mulligan. And I just like to say this one really hurts for me. And also speaking of my personal irrelevance, have you seen any of the set photos or the

paparazzi photos of Carey Mulligan on the set of She Said, which is the film adaptation, the Jodi Kantor and Megan Tuohy book. Have not. So Carey Mulligan is playing Megan Tuohy, which is very cool. But the way they've decided to dress, like young, like early 30s, like working journalist in New York,

it is like mortifying in retrospect for everything. They have my number down and not that I am ever going to win a Pulitzer on the level of Megan Thee Wee, but I wore some of these dresses and I was just like, oh God, I feel I'm mortified. They got it. They nailed it. This is really going to be a great movie and I can never go out in public again. So congratulations to Carrie Mulligan, Yaya Abdul-Mateen, Janelle Monáe, Shia LaBeouf, Gal Gadot, Robert Pattinson, and Amanda Seyfried. So Amanda Seyfried was not on our list last year, which I think is ultimately an oversight, especially after we saw what she did with Mank and she's now been the lead of a couple of films, but she is now past the 35 threshold.

Carey Mulligan was at 28. Yaya was at 26. He's obviously gone on, I think we were right on the money with that one, because he's emerged really as a movie star. He's about to be in Matrix 4. Janelle Monae was at 24. Shia was at 21. Gal Gadot was at 14. She's now 36 years old.

And Pattinson is also now 35 years old. He was at at number six and he's about to be the Batman I know I and if you recall I argued that like I felt he should have been number one um there was a case for it there's a case for it he's definitely up there the Batman had me thinking about adding other people which we'll get to as we go through our list I'm just going to give you what I think were our toughest cuts now Now, we haggled a little bit over this, certainly not as much as we did last time. There are some very worthy people

on the cuts list, but there's this thing where it's like, are you the star of a movie or are you a great part of movies? And I think a lot of these people tend to be great parts of movies or they put more of their time into television than into movies.

And that's something that I considered as we were discussing this is like, really, where's your fealty? I'll give you an example, Elle Fanning. I think Elle Fanning is fantastic. I think she's always been fantastic. Elle Fanning right now is probably best known for being the star of The Great, which is a TV show. And that doesn't mean she's not going to appear in movies, but I think of her as having spending more of her career on that project. So she's not on our list, for example. Other people who fall into that category, Aaron Taylor Johnson, who appeared shockingly in Tenet last year

near the end of the film. He was great in it. Aaron Taylor Johnson is always kind of going forward in movies. Unfortunately, he's not going forward on this list. Other people, speaking of Tenet, Elizabeth Debicki, the tallest actress on earth,

is also wonderful at acting, didn't quite make the cut here. Also speaking of the great Nicholas Holt, for the same reasons as al fanning among others though he does do a lot of movie work thomas and mckenzie she's right she's like might be number 36 you know next year whenever we do it she'll be there yeah once last night in soho comes out and people see she obviously was terrific and old she was really great and leave no trace from 2018 she's a very talented actor she's very young She's only 21 years old. Margaret Qualley, we'll see what she does in the near future.

We saw her in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, among other things. Taylor Page and Riley Keough, both of whom were great in Zola. Riley Keough, I feel like, is a little bit of a Hollywood cheat code right now, where it's like, if you want to make your movie a little bit more ridiculous and a little bit more exciting, cast Riley Keough. Is she a movie star? I don know i i she's a great actor that's not the same thing um zazie beats is someone who i feel like could be there next year based on how a lot of things play out obviously most people know her from atlanta but she was in joker she's about to be in the

harder they fall for netflix speaking of the perks of being a wallflower, Ezra Miller is going to be the flash in his own movie in 2022. Right now, I'm not sure if you would say Ezra Miller is necessarily one of the biggest stars on the planet. Rajayjohn Page, I have not seen Bridgerton, but my guy booked a lot of movies after Bridgerton,

including the Dungeons and dragons movie so i feel like also next year perhaps we'll be seeing more of him yeah he he's all just all promise um i did see bridgerton though famously fell asleep through the sex scene so did i really see it who can say um and you know he's continually in bond now, which I have no idea if that's going to happen. But I feel like that'll be a next year thing once we actually see the fruits of all that booking. Very, very exciting possibility there. The two stars of the recent Amazon film, The Voyeurs,

Justice Smith, who's actually appeared in quite a few big films, and it seems like a rising star, at least in the eyes of Hollywood. And also Sidney Sweeney, who people saw in The White Lotus over the summer and who they may know from Euphoria, I think has been tabbed for big things, though perhaps not yet as a movie star. Letitia Wright, let's talk after Black Panther, Wakanda Forever. It feels like if she's getting the mantle there, then she immediately asserts herself onto this list. She was terrific last year in Small Axe. Olivia Cooke, we've got Pete Davidson. Blake Lively is right on the edge. I think she's got about nine months of eligibility

left. So farewell to Blake Lively, unfortunately, for 35 under 35. Likewise for Mackenzie Davis, who is also 34 years old, one of my favorite actresses. She's not quite making the cut. Alicia Vikander, who once upon a time was the great hope of Hollywood, has already won an Academy Award for her work. Terrific actor. Been a little bit of a tough go with her projects of late. She hasn't appeared in too many great movies. Haley Steinfeld, who has probably been in more good movies than most of the people on this list and is only 24 years old but has appeared recently in dickinson as the star and is about to be one of the stars of the hawkeye marvel series so maybe she's pivoting to tv she's also pivoting to pop stardom or is always trying that again also just

a completely unrecognizable makeover at the mac gala. Oh, I didn't see that. Yeah, she just did not look like herself. So I don't know. The branding's a little confusing there. Speaking of younger performers, we mentioned Noah Jupe. Guy's only 16. He's booking every part he can. He's rising through the ranks.

Maybe next year for Noah. Finn Wolfhard, also from Stranger Things, has appeared in a lot of movies of late. Still only 18 years old. Millie Bobby Brown. She of the Godzilla vs. Kong franchise. Sure. Which you were a huge fan of.

Enthusiastic podcast listener. She loves pods. Can we get that drop, Bobby? With the pod ruining her brain? Okay. Dad, I'm telling you, there is something provoking him that we're not seeing here.

Why else would Godzilla flash an intimidation display if there wasn't another titan around that podcast is filling your head with garbage you should be in school we've got 11 new people on this list after shaking all that out we've got some risers and fallers we'll wait until the end of this to talk through the risers and fallers but why don't you get us started with the list let's let's go number 35 let's try to let's be economical in our comments. Sure. So number 35 is Sima Liu. And that is because he is in the MCU now. And he was the star of an MCU movie that was very successful. And then at the end, they were like, hey, there are going to be more MCU movies that you're going to be in. So congratulations, you're now a movie star. Yes. The entire final teaser of the film indicates

clearly that Shang-Chi is a big part of the future of Marvel, unsurprisingly. And he's also already booked a movie opposite Mark Wahlberg. Get the impression that Simu Liu, who I thought was great in that movie, and particularly as a physical performer, which is such a key part of the Marvel movies, was so credible and also has chops working as a sitcom actor on Kim's Convenience. So he's kind of perfect for the MCU, frankly, in terms of tone and the work that is required there. Number 34 is my big flex. This is I'm calling a shot. I could be wrong because I've literally never seen this person act. Do you feel like you're calling the shot or are the casting directors of like five major movies in the next year calling this shot?

I think Uncle Steven Spielberg called the shot first and we are just following his lead here on the big picture and in Hollywood writ large. Number 34 is Rachel Zegler. She is the 20-year-old star of West Side Story. She is also tabbed to be the star of Shazam fury of the gods a massive dc movie and then she's going to be snow white and uh in snow white and the seven dwarfs for disney that's that's that's her roster that's that's as big as it gets this is some really 90s magazine stuff or just 90s in

general where everyone has decided that this is the next person and she will be in these movies and then she will be slotted into this feature in the magazine for now, but she'll soon be cover only. I think it's great. I think it's a good choice. Thank you very much. Congrats to Rachel, who I've never seen act before.

Who's number 33? Well, do you want to take number 33? Sure. A passion project here? Yeah, I love Caitlin Deaver, who people probably will remember from Booksmart or maybe the Netflix series Unbelievable, which won several awards.

The biggest reason she's on this list for me right now is not Dear Evan Hansen, though I think she's pretty good in the movie. It's Ticket to Paradise, in which she plays opposite George Clooney and Julia Roberts. This is a big comeback movie for Julia Roberts. It's a huge movie for 2022.

And she's right at the center of the film. She's also the titular star of a film coming out called Rosaline. She's got a lot of projects booked. I think she has been identified, not to be too reductive, but like kind of as a next Amy Adams type, you know, like a very approachable, likable, mainstream woman at the center of films. And is a damn good actor. So I don't even know if we mentioned her in our last conversation. Maybe

Unbelievable had not even been released by that point, but I feel like that kind of confirmed her place in the hierarchy. Yeah. And I think she's paying a little bit of a Dear Evan Hansen tax in terms of her placement on this list, but's the way it goes i agree the list is made when the list is made which is also sort of true of our number 32 who is cynthia arrivo and this this is really just like a timing thing she had a lot of movies come out in 2019 then you know obviously the pandemic affected a lot of people but she hasn't had anything out in a while. She's got a John Ridley sci-fi movie coming up. She's apparently going to be in the Robert Zemeckis Pinocchio, which I don't know what to say about that. Who is she playing?

She's playing the Blue Fairy, according to Wikipedia, which is not a character that I remember. But I didn't really invest a lot of time in Pinocchio. Does the Blue Fairy grant Pinocchio life? Again, I don't remember Pinocchio. It kind of freaked me out a little bit. And also, Robert Zemeckis doing a CGI live-action version of this. I have my doubts. That's nightmare fuel.

Pure nightmare fuel. So again, this is a timing. This kind of got lost in pandemic limbo. Yeah, she did. I mean, she's obviously Academy Award nominated actor. She's another one too, though, who like some of the people we've discussed thus far is a real multi-hyphenate. She starred as Aretha Franklin in the Genius TV series. That gets her docked a few points. She's a singer. She's a stage performer. She's kind of got a lot of eggs going on in her basket. So she falls from number 14 and number 32. Cynthia Erivo is the biggest faller on our list. Maybe when we circle back next year, she'll do better. Unfortunately for her, she's also 34 years old so this will be her last time on this list who's number 31

31 is anthony ramos who is i think another of i mean we've been talking a lot about musicals and can musicals break through but i think if anybody's going to it's going to be anthony ramos i think whatever you thought of in the heights he was just like an absolute star but also like to remind everyone he plays a crucial role in a star is born uh and then he has upcoming projects including a transformers reboot of sorts he sure does which again is is that going to be a film that we all feel really great about possibly not but being cast as the lead of a Transformers reboot. Portains like a certain amount of. Of fame and movie stardom.

And doing movies. Yeah he's being noticed. In the same way that Rachel Zegler is being noticed. He's being noticed. He's the best part of In the Heights to me. And so you know. Despite that movie not necessarily performing. In the way that they may have wanted it to, he's really captivating.

Number 30 is a passion project of yours. He's a guy we love. I don't understand why it's not a passion project of yours. It is a passion project of mine. It's just nothing happened for my guy. Nothing has happened yet. It's happening. It's going to happen.

Yeah, but you got to believe. Nothing's happened for Rachelachel zegler yet either but you know we when you know you know and glenn powell is a fucking movie star and that's all i have to say about it and one day in a distant future when the world is happy and we are all allowed to see top gun 2 glenn powell will once again be a movie star in our lives. And I'm excited about it. Sean tried to be like he hasn't been in anything in three years. And I would just like to say the pandemic is not Glenn Powell's fault. So nor is Paramount's terrible financial situation Glenn Powell's fault. So I'm excited. I believe in Glenn Powell.

Glenn Powell, in addition to appearing in Top Gun maverick is the star of the next richard linklater movie which is a rotoscoping waking life ask i guess science fiction movie um called apollo 10 and a half stars uh powell and jack black and zachary levi i'm a big fan of those rotoscoping movies amanda i don't think you're necessarily as into them as i am but you will will, you'll ride for Link later, right? Yeah. I also like any movie with Apollo in the title. You know? Wow. Okay. Interesting. Apollo 13 and Apollo 11, both great by me. I, I'm going to try to try to find a way to challenge that and see if I can find a follow in it. I'm sure that there are many that I haven't seen or don't like, but it's working for me. Congrats to Glenn Powell, who was previously number 27 and is now number 30.

Maybe he'll vault all the way to number one in 2022. Who can say? I believe. Number 29, also a faller, but not entirely her fault. Although a pivot to TV, I think has got her docked a few points.

It's Beanie Feldstein, who of course we really like from Lady Bird and Booksmart and is about to appear in a movie called The Humans, which I mentioned premiered at TIFF. Hopefully we'll be seeing that later this month, but she's featured on Impeachment right now as Monica Lewinsky. Yeah. And I haven't seen all of Impeachment. Frankly, I turned it off pretty quickly, but it's not the best pivot. I mean, it's not, it's TV. So it docks her on this list, but also

I don't know how it's panning out. I think it's not her fault. I think she's doing a good job as Lewinsky. I, the show seems a little bit ill-conceived. Um, I'm not totally sure why we need this show, which is so, I think so different from the first two seasons of American crime story, both of which I thought were very effective. Um. The OJ season and the Gianni Versace season I thought were both very interesting. This one's not been as good. Number 28 is exciting. Another person who I don't think that we talked about when we talked about this

list 18 months ago, but is an actor I love. I think we both love. Yes. His name's Jonathan Majors. He's 32 years old. You may know him from Last Black Man in San Francisco or The Defy Bloods. He cropped up at the end of Loki as Kang the Conqueror, one of the more intriguing Marvel villains to come along. And he's got a lot lined up right now.

He's going to be in The Heart of They Fall. Really, he's the star of The Heart of They Fall, the upcoming James Samuel Western. It's an all-black cast in this Western. He's also going to be in Creed 3 and he's also going to be Kang in Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantum Mania. So he's got a lot cooking right now. Another guy who could be like top 10. Ant-Man and the Wasp Quantum Mania is the name? That's the name of a film. Yeah. Okay. All right. That's a little bit of Mission Impossible

Fallout going there, but it's okay. I want to start referring to you as amanda dobbins colon quantum mania okay sean fantasy and amanda dobbins colon quantum should we rename the big picture yeah i think that'll go really well um quantum mania is probably gonna make your head hurt i think as far as movies go all of the ant-man movies make listen this one they're going into like other like other realms of existence i love jonathan majors i think he is like one of the great actors up and coming of this generation and it does sort of bum me out that as i understand it he's basically playing the character that signifies the multiverse yeah he's the character who sort of like controls the multiverse in a way right or or unearths the multiverse and he he explains what the multiverse is at the end of the loki series right he has this

great speech where he's sitting at a table and talking to tom hiddleston it's an amazing sequence but basically jonathan majors showing up signals hey guys there are going to be a lot more universes that you have to know about and live through yeah and it's all ant-man and the wasp and dr strange and the scarlet witch and kang and all these characters are all going to get in a stew you know and they're all going to make physics in school i was so bad at physics i was horrible at physics i like that was when you got to a certain point in physics and i was just like my brain is not built this way I can't do it I just I don't have the space for it exact same I was a pretty good

student I think you were probably an exceptional student I could not do physics I could just couldn't I couldn't grasp it so this is like all of these movies I just it's so hard I don't know I don't I think when you read comic books you accept that like you don't need to fully understand it to enjoy it. Just putting that out there. Well, I have been a proponent of that with respect to certainly all the MCU movies and many movies in general, but like that's not the climate we live in, sir. It's getting more complicated. I don't disagree with you. Let's go to number 27. I love Jonathan Majors. I'm happy for him. Number 27 is Dakota Johnson, known from A Bigger Splash, Fifty Shades of Grey, Suspiria, being the daughter of Melanie Griffith, and the best

Architectural Digest tour video that I've ever seen in my life. If you haven't seen it, guys, there's stuff about Winston Churchill's C-table, and then there's a conspiracy theory about whether she likes limes or not. I'm not making this up. Shout out Dakota Johnson. I love you so much. You haven't been on anything good since we made the list,

but that's okay because she's going to be in the lost daughter, which is the Maggie Gyllenhaal directed adaptation of an Elena Ferrante novel. Also starring Olivia Coleman and Jesse Buckley, which just check, check, check to everything that I just said. And it has gotten great reviews so far. It seems like the real thing.

And she is also going to be in a new version of Persuasion and Who Am I to Sniff at an Austin adaptation. So thank you to Dakota Johnson. We like Dakota Johnson. I hope she makes more good movies. She's in danger here. If these films don't pan out for her,

she's in danger of sliding off the list. I don't know, man. You can't argue with this star quality. Yeah, yeah. It's a question of where do you really want your bread to be buttered. Also, she canceled Ellen. I don't know how into Dakota Johnson Instagram you are. I get a lot of it, but like she's, I believe.

For the Ellen appearance alone, she belongs on this list. Number 26, I'm not sure if he belongs on this list. He's a sentimental favorite. I'm not sure I was super psyched to see his vaccine policy. No, that was bad. And he'd had a really good run because his supporting role in Aaron Rodgers' Hawaii Rum Spring was really beautiful. We're talking, of course, about Miles Teller.

Miles Teller, the star of the spectacular now, Whiplash, a couple of our favorite movies. He also will be appearing in Top Gun Maverick. He'll be appearing in Chris Ryan's favorite movie of all time, Escape from Spiderhead, whatever that is. He's also appearing, I believe, as Albert Ruddy, the famed producer in The Offer,

the miniseries about the making of the Godfather. He was 23 on our list last time. He's 26 right now. He's 33 years old. He's edging out of eligibility here. I really had high, high, high hopes for Miles Teller and Miles Teller should have been Han Solo.

This is just something that needed to happen and did not happen. And really that up they screwed it up i think he's gonna be okay but i'm not a hundred percent sure i was bummed on the vax thing i was just thinking about how i scrolled through the list of like not also rands but runners up people who didn't make our last list and you made a list of like 50 people and the very last person on it is alden aaron rick i'm just like he's not even on our we forgot about you list this time around that feels like a hundred years ago they messed up they really that's not ideal okay number 25 this is this occurred to me uh late in the process but i feel like it's really important to identify a very specific brand of movie star that we have gotten in the last five or so years.

And I'm talking, of course, about the Netflix movie star. Most of these actors' films don't appear in theaters. They only premiere on the service. But Joey King, who was a child actor in Hollywood for many years, and then I thought very gracefully pivoted to the Kissing Booth series of movies. We don't review the Kissing Booth movies here on The Big Picture.

We don't even really watch them. But they are popular. I have never seen them. Neither have I. There have been three of them now. Joey King has been at the center of all three of them. They've been hugely successful for the service. And she is experiencing an unusual transition from Hollywood child actor to streaming service kind of franchise movie star back into Hollywood work, like that kind of traditional theatrical Hollywood work. She's starring opposite Brad Pitt in Bullet Train next year,

which is certainly one of my most anticipated movies and action movie directed by David Leitch, who co-conceived the John Wick series of films, directed Atomic Blonde, et cetera. Joey King is really famous among people who are not in our demo. And she seems like one of the few under 25 people i'm like this person's got an authentically bright future yes it's also interesting just to see because this is a tradition right of in films trying to cast one or two roles that are going to bring in a audience

that's different from your expected movie audience but now that it's coming from you know netflix studio system and the netflix meanwhile is trying to do that with tiktok stars and it's just it's all you know like a a big puzzle but i think you're right bullet train i mean being in a movie with brad pay congratulations it's a big deal you know we we could have talked about lana condor here we could have talked about noah centineo um we could have talked about any number of people i mean addison ray is attempting to make a pivot she she was in the She's All That remake. He's All That for Netflix recently. I don't think that popped quite as much as the Kissing Booth series.

But I think Joey King is our best representative. Number 24, speaking of dudes who haven't been doing a whole lot since the pandemic hit, who do we got at number 24? It's Taron Egerton, the hardest working man on the awards circuit, even when he's not on the awards circuit. There's obviously Ben and Kingsman, Robin Hood, Rocketman, which, you know, as we get away from it, I feel just great affection for. I don't know, pretty daffy movie, but he really tried. And he's going to be in Glimpse, which I just had to Google. And it's a apparently

a virtual reality project starring lucy boynton so you know vr my head turns off but that maybe it'll be good and little shop of horrors yeah that seems like the big one i think a remake of little shop of horrors with him at the center of it i assume he's uh playing seymour in that film which is a pretty radical shift from Rick Moranis last time we saw the little shot before his story. Anyhow, Taron Egerton, obviously a big star with the Kingsman movies, and he fell

from 17 to 24. We'll see when he starts getting back on screens. Another late ad who I almost forgot about, but who is a very important person to both of us, is Vanessa Kirby. She's number 23. Now Oscar-nominated, Vanessa Kirby. You's number 23. Now Oscar nominated Vanessa Kirby. You may know her from The Crown or from the Mission Impossible films. Maybe Hobbs and Shaw.

She was nominated for her work in Pieces of a Woman last year. Not the most successful movie I saw of 2020, but certainly a great performance from her. She's got more Mission Impossible coming up. Seems like kind of a no-brainer, right? She's great. Yeah. I think as soon as she showed up in Mission Impossible

and Hobbs and Shaw, one of which we loved, one of which we hated, but it was like, oh my God, we got another person, like a great actor who can also do this tentpole nonsense and be fun in it, which is not guaranteed. Totally. She pops off the screen in both of those movies.

Always a good sign when you're going up against The Rock or Tom Cruise. Number 22, who do we got? Awkwafina, which I think Shang-Chi just sort of cemented this. Obviously, she was in The Farewell. She has sort of a scene-stealing performance in Crazy Rich Asians. And it seems like she's going to be in more MCU movies as well as sort of the sidekick. Seems that way. as sort of the sidekick seems and and has just established this role as like the wise cracking

friend who but like who really does a lot for these movies more than those roles are usually allowed to do she's also apparently going to be in the little mermaid she's playing sebastian oh my god well i okay there's going to be some discourse around that that I don't want to be a part of. But why are we still making all of these movies live action again? Is it live action, this Little Mermaid? I believe so, though I have a hard time believing that Sebastian is going to be live action.

Right. I mean, also, it is underwater, I assume. So can it be totally live action? I don't know. Maybe it's going to be like the abyss or something. You know, it's going to be like a harrowing science fiction film. I mean, it is sort of a harrowing movie and story when you think about it. It's true.

Anyway, congratulations, Aquafina. Coming in at number 21, Jodie Comer. Yeah. Jodie Comer, perhaps best known for her work in Killing Eve. She was one of the co-stars of my not favorite movie of 2021, Free Guy. Shout out to all the Free Guys. She's going to be in a couple of really big projects. One in particular that we're deeply focused on here at The Big Picture

is The Last Duel, Ridley Scott's new film about a duel, I guess. I don't know. We'll see. Apparently, Ridley enjoyed working with her so much that he cast her in kit bag is his next film which also sounds like an action packed adventure film jody playing josephine a wife of napoleon opposite joaquin phoenix as napoleon bonaparte in a ridley Scott movie. I understand he's already been knighted. I understand that he is, in fact, Sir Ridley Scott, but just put this man in a special hall of fame. I agree. Double knighting? Should he get knighted again? Knighted squared, sure. Ridley Scott rules so hard. It's unbelievable. I love it. He's like 89 years old,

just cranking him out. I love it. He's two movies out this fall. It's pretty cool. Everyone else was just like, I don't know what to do in the pandemic. And he's like, I know I'll get every movie star you've ever liked and put them in front of cameras and then give you good movies. Or not, I don't even know if they're good. They could both be terrible. I'll give you like movies that you're excited to watch in the fall. I really need. Okay. So we just talked about Clint Eastwood with Adam and Chris on the show last week and how just remarkable it is, regardless of how you feel about the films that he's making movies at 91 years old. I desperately need Ridley to make another alien movie in his 90s.

That's that is that will be the greatest accomplishment in the history of cinema. Completely open to it. OK, let's go to number 20. Congrats to Jodie Comer. Who's number 20? 20 is Zoe Kravitz. You added this and then you were like, this might be a reach,

but I don't think that this is a reach at all. I mean, obviously she's been in X-Men First Class, Mad Max Fury Road. I didn't remember that she was in Divergent, but apparently she was in Divergent. She did High Fidelity for a season, which I thought was delightful and shouldn't have been canceled.

Also a great example of, it was adapted from a movie from a book, but would have been a romantic comedy movie however long ago and whatever, bring back a high fidelity, but she's going to be in a Soderbergh movie and she is going to be the cat woman in Batman. And she's also just like the coolest person alive and a huge internet star. And dating Channing Tatum, apparently, who it's like, 2022, we're getting Channing Tatum back.

Yeah. Dog, right? That's his, that's his... Did he direct that film? I think he directed it. I think he did, yeah. But there are like three, I think he's in a lot of things.

Anyway. Channing Tatum, 41 years old, not eligible for this list. Zoe Kravitz is a no brainer to me uh she's very famous she's never not necessarily been the centerpiece of a movie before I believe she's the star of Kimi that Soderbergh movie that you're talking about which is a kind of I guess a riff on Siri um Kimi it's about like a kind of an AI kind of virtual intelligence um and you know if you're playing Catwoman in a Batman movie,

that's pretty big. We've seen Michelle Pfeiffer do it. We've seen Anne Hathaway do it. It's a way to kind of springboard your way into a level of fame that I think we're all kind of counting on for Zoe Kravitz.

Number 19, another person we just did not talk about last time. We've already mentioned the character that she's best known for playing in this conversation, Elizabeth Olsen.

I think Elizabeth Olsen actually got more famous from this show WandaVision than from her work in a movie, Elizabeth Olsen. I think Elizabeth Olsen actually got more famous from this show WandaVision than from her work in a movie like Avengers Endgame. But there's something inexplicable to me. She just feels like a massive star now after WandaVision.

I saw her trending a handful of times over the last 12 months on random days where just her hive came out to debate stuff. Am I right about this? No, they're very dedicated my instagram explore tab is just i have been taken over by the elizabeth olsen hive as well and i get served like a tremendous amount of content about her relative to the amount of mcu or elizabeth olsen content i seek out, which is zero. So no, she definitely has a huge built-in

fan base. And it's, I suppose, going to be in MCU movies as long as she wants to be. Yeah. The only thing I know she has coming up is Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness. There's been a lot of speculation that she may be the villain of that movie because of everything that happened to her in the WandaVision series. We'll see, but she is definitely in control of an army of a certain kind. And that's always helpful when you're trying to appear in films. Number 18, a big slider this year. Again, not her fault. Not her fault, but it really passed her by in all senses of the experience. It's Ana de Armas. So this is, maybe we'll feel bad about this in six months because obviously she's in No Time to Die, which is finally knock on wood, like allegedly coming out in a couple of weeks. I really don't want to jinx it.

I need this, guys. Just like light a candle. Ana de Armas needs it too, quite frankly. Blonde got moved to 2022, allegedly. Will we see it in 2022? Not holding my breath and then one of the great uh movie casualties of the the uh is deep water which they're not even going to promote deep water this is obviously the movie that she made with ben affleck directed by adrian line

and uh where they then dated for a year and now have moved on and ben affleck has really has a new even more public relationship, if you can believe it. So I don't know what they're going to do. It feels like they're completely burying this. I don't know. Maybe they just think February is a fun, disreputable time

to release a kinky, erotic thriller. I'm hoping it's an Adrian Line special. Whether or not Ben and Anna are willing to go into photo ops, I don't even really care. Just show me the movie. You know, show me the movie with like with one of them commits a torrid murder. I've thought about the Warner Brothers publicity team more than once with respect

to this one. Just missed the window. Just missed it. It's too bad. Not missing the window, number 17, Jessie Buckley. Probably my favorite active actress who has a lot of stuff lined up. I obviously talked about her in the I'm Thinking of Anything's episode. And she was one of the stars of Chernobyl. She's amazing in Wild Rose. She was 33 last year. She's vaulting all the way to 17. She's also in The Lost Daughter, much like Dakota Johnson and Olivia Colman. Olivia Colman not eligible for this list, by the way, in case you forgot. And then she's also co-starring in a movie that I heard a little bit of buzz about when I was at

Telluride, which is Sarah Polley is coming back to direct a film called Women Talking with Jesse Buckley and Your Girl Claire Foy. This is a movie that is like very noisy on our radar in 2022. Jesse Buckley in that kind of like Cate Blanchett, Meryl Streep kind of lineage of a certain kind of performer who's very flexible, can do any kind of a movie, can do accents, can do transformations, can do seriously dramatic, can do funny, can do absurdism. Huge fan. She can sing. She can sing her ass off.

She's good things ahead for Jesse Buckley. She's number 17. Number 16. We got a little flack for this one last time because people have said that we underrated Brie Larson. I can't believe she moved up. All she's done for the past two years is be in Nissan commercials. How many Nissan commercials can one person make? What is going on? Money is money. I don't really want to...

They're Nissan, right? I don't even know. I'm not sure. There's no free spot in here. So they're car commercials. I don't understand any of them. She just shows up in random people's lives and drives really fast and then just does a girl boss face to the screen. I don't care for these commercials. Nevertheless, she's going to star in the second Captain Marvel movie, which will ultimately end up being one of the biggest movies of 2022. So Brie Larson, you know. She won an Oscar.

She won an Oscar. She's very, she's an unusual performer in that she's, I think, trying to marry old school movie stardom with like internet influencer. I was going to say, should we play the video of her announcing that she's taking a step back from the internet? That was one of the funnier posts that I've seen in the last six months. But maybe she's stepping back to focus more on movies. I hope she is.

That's Brie Larson. Another big slider this year. I feel horrible about this. Saoirse Ronan. I think, talk about the next Meryl Streep of her generation. Just one of the greats. She's been Oscar nominated four times and she's 27 years old. Talk about like the next Meryl Streep of her generation. Just one of the greats. She's been Oscar nominated four times and she's 27 years old.

Atonement, Grand Budapest Hotel, Brooklyn, Lady Bird, Little Women, Ammonite. I, you know, she's going to be in the French Dispatch, though. Don't say anything, Sean. I've heard that it's small. Please stop spoiling movies for me that I'm looking forward to. Okay. I knew that it was a small role. We don't need your, you know, Telluride explaining.

And then Foe, I don't know what that movie is. Foe is an adaptation of an Ian Reid novel, the same guy who wrote I'm Thinking of Ending Things. And so Ian Reid makes a certain kind of a sci-fi, unnerving kind of a story. And she's the star of that movie, 2023. That's all that's on her list, as far as I can tell, too. So maybe she's taking a step back.

Ammonite was not received as warmly, I think, as people were hoping it would be. And so she got dinged a little bit, but she'll be back. She'll be back. She's very young and very talented. Number 14, this is it. This is my guy.

He's growing. His power is growing every day. He honestly seems low at 14 you might be right you might be right next year though yeah top five top five dead or alive jesse plemons what's up jesse plemons you may know him from friday night lights or breaking bad when he was still working in tvs not now he's a movie star now he was in the master he was in game night he was and i'm thinking of ending things this year he's going to be in The Power of the Dog, one of the very best movies of the year, directed by Jane Campion. Next year, Leo DiCaprio stepped aside to allow Jesse Plemons to become the lead character in Martin Scorsese's Killers

of the Flower Moon. Let's go. I'm thrilled to be living in the time of Jesse Plemons. It's very cool. It was very sweet to see him and Kirsten Dunst on screen together again after their work in Fargo. Again, please stop it. You have seen films that the rest of us have not seen. That's great. That didn't even say anything.

I just said, yeah, but they're like, they're together. Now I know that at some point their characters interact. Like, just chill out, okay? Okay, let's talk about number 13, who fell slightly, though really no fault of his own

was more a testament to the way a handful of people were able to move up who is it it's a key stanfield and it really i mean obviously atlanta short term 12 selma sorry to bother you get out uncut gems knives out the photograph judas and the black messiah um that's really that's an incredible list maybe he shouldn't have fallen this much but again again, he's not, he's in the harder they fall. But otherwise, just there's not that much lined up. He's slowing down a little bit. I'm sure he's working on Atlanta right now, returning to Atlanta where he's so great as Darius.

He was 10 last time. He's 13 now. Lakeith Stanfield, I feel like is going to be a staple of our movie going live for the next 10 years, which is very exciting. Number 12, somebody who jumped way high from number 30 to number 12. Who is it?

Dev Patel, the handsomest man in the world, according to my husband, which again, I think could be accurate. Yeah, I think these next three, we're letting our Oscar prognosticate ourselves, jump in a little bit. I don't know whether he'll be nominated for the Green Knight, but one of the great performances, and it was nice to kind of see Dev Patel, who has been like a beloved actor,

and certainly a beloved internet boyfriend, like get his moment and have everyone be so excited about it. So I think he's getting some burn off of that. And I'm also anticipating his next movie in a big way, which is called monkey man, which he directed, which has been described as John wick in Mumbai. So Dev Patel transitioning to action hero, just that that's kind of the last piece of the puzzle for him.

Yeah. And he's obviously a terrific actor. So he's, you know, between what he's accomplished and where he's going, he's at number 12. Number 11, who do we got? Kristen Stewart. Spencer. Oscar coming. Oscar, you know.

Also genuinely extremely famous. Obviously was in Twilight, was kind of had her whole tabloid run and then has reinvented not reinvented herself but has escaped all of that to become one of the coolest people on the planet um very famous great actor in spencer which i think will be something i again have not seen but she's playing princess diana and that seems to get a lot of attention these days so coming up from 15 to 11 Kristen Stewart going to be a big Kristen Stewart fall here on the show and elsewhere. Yeah, number 10 not my favorite actor in the world, but a person who are going to have to reckon with here

on the podcast. Her name is Jennifer Lawrence. Jennifer Lawrence is about to be the co-star of Don't Look Up with Leo DiCaprio Adam McKay's new movie and then she'll have Red White and Water after that which seems like a 2022 film at this point. She was number nine previously. She's number 10 now. Of course, an Academy Award winner, star of many films that many people have seen, Winter's Bone, The Hunger Games series, American Hustle, My Beloved Mother. Maybe after Mother, I'm fully in on J-Law. We'll see. I really enjoyed making you do that whole segment. Jennifer Lawrence is really famous and a giant movie star. Another pick that we got

criticized for was Michael B. Jordan at 18 that people thought maybe we had him a little too low. Even though he hasn't had the greatest pandemic, I agree that we may have misplaced him a little bit.

So I'm trying to rectify that here. We've got him at number nine. He's 33 years old, so he's not going to be eligible for that much longer. But he too, much like Dev Patel, is making his directorial debut

with Creed 3, which is frankly one of the few remaining standalone kind of like non-superhero IP franchises. He attempted to relaunch another one with

Without Remorse. We'll see if we ever get another Rainbow Six movie. I'm not so sure about that based on that movie's performance. That didn't work out. He's also going to be the star of A Journal for Jordan, which is the upcoming denzel washington uh i guess it's his i think this

is the third film that washington has directed after fences and antoine fisher so you know we know denzel is a very careful director of actors that'll probably be a holiday movie conversation for us to have michael b we love michael B. Also a very famous movie star. Absolutely. Who's number eight? You pushed for this. Zendaya. I think she might be too low at number eight,

but I think that it's a little bit about the timing and next year. Just like every month that goes on, the Zendaya just awareness and power grows, I think. I mean, she is extremely, she's an extremely famous person and very quickly becoming a movie star. I was, she's going to be, obviously she's going to be in dune.

She will also be in the Spider-Man movie. I was going to ask you, does her character, is there any multiverse in which her Spider-Man character ever gets to become a superhero herself? Maybe. Okay. That would, that would be cool. If we have to to do all of this then let's zendaya be a superhero too that's what i have to say yeah i i mean she probably should just get her own franchise and then when it comes to that the one thing was

zendaya that holds me back a little bit is the only vehicle in which she's been the true true star has been euphoria which is a tv show um where she really is you know she's it's an ensemble show but she really is the engine of that show spider-man dune you know greatest showman even malcolm and marie which is a two-hander these are ultimately like not centrality and so she's still we're still kind of waiting to see what happens when you make zendaya the focus of a movie but she's only 25 years old she's enormously famous as you say nowhere to go but I think she'll get there yeah number seven actually falling though I don't think this is really her fault because she's probably like our favorite person

in all of movies right now um her name's Florence Pugh now Florence Pugh to her credit was the best part of the biggest movie of the year, which is Black Widow. Yes. And it's clear that now Florence Pugh is a staple of the MCU, which is great for her career. My only concern is that based on the stinger, it seemed like she was going to be in an MCU show as opposed to getting the movies. I mean, I'm sure she'll pop up at some point.

You might be right. We don't know. We don't totally know how they're going to organize that. I would prefer they keep her in the movies because I mean, I'm sure she'll pop up at some point. You might be right. We don't know. We don't totally know how they're going to organize that. I would prefer they keep her in the movies because she's such a dynamic movie star. We saw that in Midsommar. We saw that in Little Women. And she's got the big Olivia Wilde movie,

Don't Worry Darling, coming in 2022. Did you see that little teaser for Don't Worry Darling with your boy from One Direction? Do you mean Harry Styles? I almost was like, we should put Harry Styles on this list. Dunkirk? Yeah, what else don't worry darling next year next year yeah next year i love harry styles i am just i'm thrilled you you and my 17 year old sister worship at the altar of harry styles yeah and and olivia wilde which is great for everybody. It's true. Pew is like, she's one of the goats. She's one of the, she's truly excellent.

I think there's just a couple of insurgents this year that have bumped her a couple of spots. Falling pretty far from number one to number six. Who is it, Amanda? It's Emma Stone. I'd like to remind you that you were the only person who thought Emma Stone should be it. Come on. I love Emma Stone. I'd like to remind you that you were the only person who thought Emma Stone should be in it. Come on.

I love Emma Stone. She's wonderful. I even enjoyed her in Cruella. Emma Stone is one of the only people on this list who people will show up for just based on her name. I guess so. But Cruella was a hit. That shit was on Disney Plus and people still went to movie theaters to see it. I know.

That movie did good business. Yeah, I know. That's because children and young girls need something to watch. But it's fine. I love Emma Stone. She hasn't really done anything except Cruella and then not sue Disney and sign up for Cruella 2. She's going to be in another Yorgos Lanthimos movie, which is very cool.

And as you said, she is one of the great actors of her generation, has won an Oscar, is really famous. People go see her in things. Love Emma Stone. She's number six. Number five, the highest riser on our list. Maybe even underrated at this point. Her name's Anya Teller-Joy. She's 25 years old. You may have seen her in The Witch or Split or Emma, but you probably saw her in The Queen's Gambit, one of the biggest shows of 2020. She is now about to appear in a month in Last Night in Soho, Edgar Wright's

new film. Then she's going to be the star of the new Robert Eggers I don't know, Nordic Viking film alongside many other actors including Willem Dafoe and Nicole Kidman. It's an all-star cast in that movie. Also heard a lot of hype about that movie at Telluride. Everyone's very excited about it,

although I'm not sure if you are, Amanda. Sometimes they really make things for you. And I am happy for you. It's going to be a huge, maybe it's like a six-hour solo pod where I live watch The Northmen and then I live watch The Lighthouse. What do you think?

Yeah, that would be great. You think people would listen to that? Will you wear a Viking hat? Can we video it in a Viking hat? Only if you buy me the light from the lighthouse. Okay. And put it in my backyard because it's nine feet tall. And you tell her joy also going to be the star of Furiosa eventually when

George Miller gets around to shooting that film, which is the prequel to Mad Max Fury Road. So yeah, she's, she's doing well right now. Who's number four? Tom Holland. I also insisted on this. You did, which is surprising to me. So I don't know if you know this, but he's Spider-Man. What? So we were just making jokes about Harry Styles and just the universal appeal that Harry Styles has. But Tom Holland really has that.

I mean, Tom Holland has that because of movies. Harry Styles has that because of one direction. And Tom Holland is like the teen beat star of, of movies and definitely the breakout star of the MCU in terms of people knowing who he is outside of his character. And again, that has a lot to do with age. That has a lot to do with Spider-Man and that character and being a teenager and relatability

or whatever. But that movie is going to be giant. The trailer was already giant, you know, and that's because people will go see things that Tom Holland is in. Nothing that he's done outside of Spider-Man particularly recommends him. But this is a snapshot of a moment in time. He was eight.

He's now four. You're right, though. If we look at The Devil All the Time and Cherry and Chaos Walking, these things haven't gone great for him. He's got Uncharted as well in 2022. That's a big, big video game series. This is a movie that's been in the works

for many years. Could be exactly what you're talking about. The kind of like that secondary level of IP support, I guess, that he may need. It seems sort of like a next generation Ryan Reynolds in that. Interesting. Yeah, I think that's right. I think he's been trying to do the prestige things and he should just be charming franchise guy i think you have a good point number three one of the bigger no-brainers on this list yeah academy award winner daniel kaluuya who now i feel like every performance is an event like he kind of has never done wrong by us and there are very few actors about whom you can say that even going back to his black mirror episode like he's always great and so reliable

and manages to blend the the sort of the mainstream genre movie with the sort of meticulous daniel day lewis-esque transformative acting in a way that I don't think very many contemporaries are capable of. Certainly not the kind of quote-unquote like IG influencer famous people we've got on this list. We talk a lot, especially with Wesley Morris, about the quality of movie stardom and the ability just like to bend the energy around the camera. And it's just a presence thing. Some people have it some people don't he has it in astonishing qualities he also is a great chooser of projects i mean this is a incomplete list but here's what we've got that he's been in judas and black messiah for which he won an oscar get out widows black panther and upcoming he's in nope the new jordan

peele movie and black panther wak. I mean, that's just, yeah. Pretty good. Nope, that's our birthday movie next year. Oh, right. Okay. Pretty excited about that. Okay. Let's go to number two.

Number two is Margot Robbie. Again, a little bit of like what you've done before and what you have upcoming. Obviously, she is really, honestly, one of the biggest movie stars around. She's not just been in Wolf of Wall Street and I, Tonya, where she's nominated for an Oscar, but a huge part of Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. She was a huge part of Bombshell. And now she's been cast in three of the more anticipated movies of 2022. One of them is the untitled Wes Anderson film, which is currently filming in Spain right now, which I believe is a Western. Is it like a kind of a, is a Wes Anderson Western of a sort? The other movie is Babylon,

which is being written and directed by Damien Chazelle. Also hugely anticipated movie. I believe she just filled in for Emma Stone in that part who dropped out. And then the untitled David O. Russell film, which is formerly known as Canterbury Glass, which has been pushed a couple of times, but has a huge ensemble cast as well.

And she also can do comic book movies like The Suicide Squad and Harley Quinn and is also similar to Daniel Kaluuya in that she kind of is able to balance the high quality project with the down the middle IP stuff

in a way that very few others like her are able to do. Probably one of the most seen, if not the most seen actors on this list, just in like the between the DC stuff and the non-franchise movies that actually do succeed and people have actually seen. Tom Holland's trying, but he'll never escape Spider-Man. This is a person who actually established an entire career and I was also producing movies and, and then dipped in to, to comic book land. Her role as Harley Quinn is fascinating because the,

the three movies that she's appeared in as Harley Quinn wildly vacillate in quality and tone. And she is the constant in those movies. You know, it's a little bit silly to be like, what an amazing performance as Harley Quinn and a comic book movie. But I think it is a genuinely great and committed version of that character. So she's very, very flexible in that respect. Obviously got a ton of great stuff coming

up. Okay. Number one. Now I'm going to just make a prediction before you reveal it. I don't think this guy's going to hold the spot next year. No, but some of that is due to project selection. Again, this is a snapshot of a moment in time. Who is it? And it's, it's Chalamet. It's Timothy Chalamet, who is his generation's Leonardo DiCaprio. And Leonardo DiCaprio was our number one at the 35, over 35 list. Pretty uncontroversially, I would say. I mean, I didn't read the comments, but it's pretty obvious. And this guy is a wildly famous movie star, movie star who still works with all the great directors, but also is now with Dune becoming, well, I don't know if he'll be franchised.

We'll see whether they make part two and whether sean gets angry but um it kind of he's he's going for his mass market phase right now he made one other choice in terms of that mass market phase you know he's going to be in don't look up he's going to be in the new luca guadagnino movie next year but in 2023 he's going to appear as the titular wonka in a new willie wonka movie i had blocked this out so well it's i don't know it's nice for everybody to get weird you know people just want to wear silly hats sometimes sure yeah you wear silly hats sometimes no i'm not really a hat person

i have like a pretty large round head it's like no it's it's like unusually round and the hats don't really accommodate it. That reminds me of one of my favorite jokes in So I Married an Axe Murderer when the Mike Myers grandfather character is insulting one of the boy and he's like, you know, describes his head as a planetoid and also as like an orange with a toothpick in it. Are you saying that you've got that kind of head? Yeah. The baby pictures of me in particular really just look like a toothpick in it. Yeah. Are you saying that you've got that kind of head? Yeah. The baby pictures of me in particular really just look like a lollipop, you know? It's fine.

It's a tough break. They don't make hats for me. They do make hats for Willy Wonka. They've made one for Timothee Chalamet, our number one 35 under 35 movie star. You feel good about this list? I do. I think that you could quibble with the order

of the top five and i think like we made this list this week and then we'll see dune and then i think you know nope and black panther will come out next year and kaluuya will probably be number one and that's great and i feel really great about that um but yeah i feel good i feel good too our work here is done thank you to our producer bobby w, also who'd be on my 35 under 35 list. Always does such a great job on the big picture. We will be back next week with a special celebration.

It's the big pictures 400th episode. What? And we want to hear from you. Wall to wall mailbag. Anything you want to know from me and Amanda, fire away. We will see you then.