The Big Picture - The 2023 Golden Globes: Hollywood’s Messiest Night Returns

Episode Date: January 11, 2023

The 80th annual Golden Globes returned to the airwaves and carved a path for the next two months of this awards season. Sean and Amanda break down a big night for ‘The Fabelmans,’ ‘The Banshees of Inisherin,’ Angela Bassett, and Austin Butler’s Elvis voice. Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Matt Bellany, founding partner of Puck News, and I'm covering the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. With my new show, The Town, I'm going to take you inside Hollywood with exclusive insight on what people in show business are actually talking about. Multiple times a week, I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know, journalists, insiders, all of whom can break down the hottest topics in entertainment to tell you what's really going on. Listen now. and get up to $75 in PC Optimum Points. Visit Superstore.ca to get started. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is The Big Picture, a conversation show about the Golden Globes.

The Beleaguered Award Show is back on primetime. It just aired. We are coming to you immediately after the telecast on tuesday night and it was an award show amanda what'd you think of the telecast as a tv show i think i give it a c minus and as an awards show though i give it a b minus and as i was setting up my zoom here i was thinking about maybe i would even bump it up to a b but then i was like no it's still a b minus but b minus um sure i i didn't know we were doing letter grades but i'll think on what my letter grades would be and i'll get back to you on that uh i wasn't thinking about it in that way because in a way the hollywood foreign press association is um is an unfinished

product these days after some years of controversy. The show made an attempt to come back on a Tuesday night. And this is, of course, one of the most important precursors to the Academy Awards. And I'm so fascinated to evaluate whether anything at all changed in the Oscar race. My immediate reaction is no. Maybe we should table that for one second, though, because I do want to talk about the TV show aspect

that you're citing. Gerard Carmichael, of course, was the host of tonight's proceedings, and he did what Gerard Carmichael does, which is he very deliberately and to me quite amusingly makes everyone feel uncomfortable. show by having a largely autobiographical opening monologue about how and why he was asked to be the emcee of tonight's show that of course led to a long disquisition on the racist past of the hollywood foreign press association and what carmichael could or could not do to um alleviate some of those concerns amongst the national media and Hollywood itself. What'd you think of dry car, Michael? I thought the monologue was the most effective part of the hosting experience and notable, notable, notable that he did the monologue. And then he kind of did like the interstitial jokes, which we'll come back to, but no bits. And I just got to say, thank you for the no bits. The show already ran long. The bits were going to feel extra forced. Good call.

I thought the monologue was both really effective to me as a viewer and as a specific type of viewer, a.k.a. a person who hosts a podcast about awards season. And also is evidence of why awards awards shows just like make no sense anymore they just don't make any sense as a concept because i thought it was great and a and a clever if awkward way is that's what he's like that's what his stand-up is like it's just awkward yeah this felt very much like a kind of spiritual sequel to rathaniel his most recent special yeah you know even just like the pacing of it was just a little bit like but uncomfortable but i thought the concept and the way that it got at the um the hollywood foreign press's issues and history and and you know the various elephants of the room was very deft i did did also think to myself, like how many people even know what he's talking about? And it's probably like 300 to 400,000 was my best guess, which is like, and so

it was great for them. I don't think that that is the audience that the HFPA or NBC is hoping for, though it's also notable that I think this will be the Golden Globes' last year on NBC. And this was seen in a lot of ways as like an audition tape for the Golden Globes' like new home, if they can find one. You have to wonder whether any new homes are going to be like, okay, so 300,000 people

who can understand an in-joke about uh awards show history that's what you know i like i don't know whether it works as an advertisement for the future of this awards show but um i enjoyed it i thought it was incisive i i enjoyed it as well. I agree with you, though. I don't know that the HFPA really had any other option here other than to just let someone annihilate them for five minutes to open the show, even though that signal was probably only broadcast clearly to, as you said, a fraction of the audience. Now, this show is not airing on a Sunday night after a day of football. It's airing on a Tuesday night after a day of the rain in Los Angeles.

And so it's a different kind of expectation of the audience, too. And maybe that speaks to the broader future of award shows, which is to say that they are more like what the Golden Globes has been historically, which is this kind of drunken, clubby night in a small room with a lot of famous people. And even though the evening started out quite tense, I think, and there was a sense that Carmichael was not just going to slaughter some sacred cows, but maybe burn down the whole slaughterhouse with it. But also that as people had more drinks and as it shifted from this disquisition about the HFPA to

just giving out awards to famous people and letting drunk famous people on stage, it started to feel kind of back to normal in some ways. And in a way, almost like banal to the point of normalcy, which is not something you could say about award shows for the last few years. Remember that we had a Zoom Golden Globes two years ago that was highly unusual and significantly different from what we saw tonight. And so in an odd way, I was comforted by the regularness of this otherwise dull award show. I agree with you with one notable Zoom or satellite exception that did not feel of, you know, years past and felt very 2022, 2023, uh, which is when president Zelensky, uh, phoned in from the Ukraine to give a message that I support. And, you know, and I, I also stand with Ukraine.

Just so I, just so we're clear here, you're saying you stand with Putin. Is that what you said? No, I want to be very clear that I stand with Sean Penn, uh introduced zielinski and zielinski and ukraine um yeah that that felt very of a moment um of this moment in a way that was uh strange but no i agree with you i think that when i said i give it like a b minus for an awards show was there was a lot of this that was just famous to or semi-famous people winning awards and saying daffy things on stage. And you know what? I kind of like that. Not kind of like that. I've always enjoyed it. So the more that they, the more drinks that were consumed, I guess people really still are just showing up to the Golden Globes and just drinking. You would think at this point

people would know to at least pace themselves, right? Well, it's a long show and I don't know what kind of food options we're talking about here. I've never attended

the Globes myself, but I, if it were me, I'd just be doing stiff cocktail just over and over again. No, you wouldn't. Hit me.

Hit me. Just keep hitting me. That's such a lie. And I was thinking about this. If you had any chance of being anywhere near a camera and a microphone, like if there was the remotest possibility. I'm near a microphone every day of the week. Sure.

And you didn't have a cocktail at night, did you? I'm shithoused ahead of every pod. It's a little known fact about me. I'm just absolutely hammered right now. This is what I'm saying. If you went to the Golden Globes and there was the tiniest chance that you were going to have to get up on that stage, you wouldn't drink a thing. And neither would I.

And I am the world's greatest cocktail enthusiast. So, you know. I would have the lubricant. I would have the lubricant. I would have the one I would have that I need to untighten my nerves cocktail, but I would not have the full Mike White and God

bless Mike White. Do they have a full bar at the Golden Globes? I'm not sure. I think it's like a weight. There's weight services. Right. Understanding.

So I'm just like, would you be able to get your old fashioned or whatever? Yeah. Do they have Whistlepig? I freaking hope so. You know, they should. What about Pappy?

You think they have Pappy Van Winkle on ice there? This is what I'm asking you. Like, what are the bar options? I have no clue. It was nice to see, though, that a number of people did get inebriated because I think that's one of the very best features of the Golden Globes. And there were certainly some highlights in that respect, people drinking.

And then there were also some non-drunken highlights, some nice moments and some interesting moments about the awards to come. I was a bit cynical at the outset of the show because after Carmichael's speech, they proceeded to start giving out awards right away. I thought both of the first two awards were widely deserved.

Angela Bassett's win for Black Panther Wakanda Forever, not just for that performance, but the fact that everyone knows that Angela Bassett has been one of the best movie and TV actors for 35 years running and is just magnificent. And Kiwi Kwan, who won for Best Supporting Actor for Everything Everywhere All at Once. And I will say the cynicism in me sparked a little bit when I felt like, okay, we're giving out a lot of awards to actors of color really early on to say, hey, we're not so bad. Now, of course, supporting actor and actress awards often come early in award shows, but my antenna is up with the HFPA's history and I wanted to be mindful of that. And I

will say that cynicism did eventually fade away for me after after 20 or 30 minutes and i it started to just feel like kind of a normal award show in which a broad range of nominees were rewarded but i did did that trigger anything in you were you like oh they set us up here to show us that we're not so bad anymore and that we're now more morally righteous yes for sure i the first 30 minutes were just sort of tough going. And some of that might've been what we as viewers brought to the show. And then Gerard Carmichael, I think rightfully set you up for,

you know, with the primer of here's what we're trying to do here. And so maybe we were just hypersensitive to it. But I think even a couple of the TV awards that they gave out right after supporting actor also went to actors of color, which is wonderful. to it. But I think even a couple of the TV awards that they gave out right after Supporting Actor also went to Actors of Color, which is wonderful. But I did also notice that the category presentation throughout the night, the order of it was a little strange in a way that made me wonder whether they ordered it intentionally to get things off on the foot that they wanted to start the evening on.

It felt a little overmanaged in that way. Nevertheless, we saw those two supporting awards, which are, I think, sort of obvious. And it did strike a feeling in me that this was ultimately going to be a largely predictable slate of awards tonight. There were a couple of surprises, but maybe not as many as we've come to expect from the somewhat chaotic and unpredictable history of the Golden Globes. There was something a bit chalky. And as the show went on, I was like, gosh, this sure feels like what the Oscars are going to feel like. And I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. I think on the one hand, the globe's not being ridiculous and giving Bohemian Rhapsody five or six awards

seems like a good thing. On the other hand... You mean Elvis? Well, or Elvis, which, you know, did not do as well as some had expected. You were speaking in the past tense. I didn't know whether that was like a Freudian split. No, no, no.

You being like Elvis is Bohemian Rhapsody. And so... No, well, I. You being like Elvis is Bohemian Rhapsody. And so. No. Well, I mean, that's the thing is that that four years ago, Bohemian Rhapsody did quite well and that Elvis has been comp to it a number of times. I was referring to the fact that once upon a time you would get some really wonky wins as it were. And I didn't feel like there were that.

There was one really odd win to me that I'm still trying to wrap my mind around, which is the best international feature or the best non-Eng Language Feature Award, which went to a good film, Argentina 1985. But a film that is certainly the lowest profile movie out of all of the nominees this year. The other nominees were All Quiet on the Western Front, Close, the Belgian film, Decision to Leave from South korea and rrr which is really having a moment right now here in hollywood sure is and it of course earlier in the ceremony rrr song not to not to one and so i felt like hey maybe this will be kind of like the crowning moment and maybe even the rrr uh best picture race will be on in a more significant way and that didn't turn out to be true but aside from that that and we can talk a little bit more about that category in a minute but aside from that i i wouldn't say

i had my breath taken away by any of the awards given out which is again i'm kind of like neutral on were you surprised by anything no and what was interesting is that even the musical comedy categories best actor and best actress which um are not a part of the Oscar ceremony, were what I expected them to be. Colin Farrell won for Banshees, Ben and Sharon, and Michelle Yeoh won for Everything, Everywhere, All at Once. And that was really lovely because I think if we had to put money on it today, Cate Blanchett is going to win another Oscar for Tar, meaning that Michelle Yeoh will not win Best Actress, which is a real shame because she's so deserving. And her speech to me, I might have been reading into it too much, but it had the

tinge of like, this is my speech and this is, you know, my time to accept this. And I was very moved by it. Very deserving performance and deserving actor. But even those categories, like they can't be chalky for the Oscars because they don't exist in the Oscars. But I was still like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, this is going along with the same narrative that we expect. Yeah, I felt the same, but in reverse for Kiwi Kwan,

which is that it felt like he was auditioning for his best supporting actor speech during his speech. Whereas Michelle Yeoh, it seemed like was acknowledging like this might be the last time I get to do this. And let's just say Kiwi Kwan nailed it. Like, I crushed it. Oh, it was so beautiful. I teared up.

He seems like the absolute lock for best supporting. I hope I didn't just jinx it for him. But, you know. When I was watching him, I was thinking of a Troy Kotzer and I was remembering Troy Kotzer giving a speech like that. And then I looked back and realized

Troy Kotzer didn't even win at the Globes last year. It was Cody Smith McPhee who won at the Globes and Kotzer's hard campaign kind of began immediately after that. Now, of course, the Globes we didn't, was not televised. And so it didn't have the same kind of impact. But I agree with you

it felt like kiwi kwan locked something up and troy costar last year had sort of a breakout moment at the sag awards i remember that's right speech being really beautiful so you know the same thing um yeah it was lovely do you want to talk about any more highlights from the show itself before digging into the winners of drama and musical comedy and talking a little bit about the actor and actor racism director? Yeah, there were some fun things. They almost all came from winners. I guess towards the end, the presenters got a little loose. I mean, and we'll talk about Regina Hall.

The Regina Hall thing is the most incredible thing that I've ever seen happen. I'm just going to fast forward ahead i don't even remember what she was presenting i i want to say it was limited series oh no no you know what it was she was presenting yeah best actor in a limited series because kevin costner he of yellowstone and you, all the movies of the 80s and 90s won and was not present due to the legitimately troubling weather conditions in read to accept on behalf of of these absent individuals isn't the smoothest and regina at home might have also been participating in the festivities of the golden globes and so she just had to read the phrase scott cosner is sheltering in place in santa barbara and then just kind of lost it at the end. She couldn't even finish this sentence. She burst out laughing while reading. That is an objectively ridiculous

sentence to have to say out loud. And like, you know, lots of love to the people in Santa Barbara. Like things are very difficult across the state of California. But like Kevin Costner is sheltering in place in his like 40 million dollar mansion in Santa Barbara. You know, I don't know what to say. I hope he and his family and everyone else are safe. Um, and Regina Hall really made me laugh. Uh, it made me wish that she could come back and host the Oscars because she does have, and she didn't really get a chance to do the thing that she did tonight that much at the Oscars last year, but she has really great comic timing and is very naturally funny. I enjoyed that moment. There were a couple of other moments like that.

You know, I think Jennifer Coolidge in her presentation early in the show and then in her acceptance speech, which seemed to be to me like an out loud private conversation into microphones with Mike White. They were just sort of like going back and forth to each other sort of like quietly gossiping slash doing their shtick which is all like their persona is also themselves and you know jennifer coolidge when she talks i'm like is this are you just doing that trophy wife from best in show character or like is that

actually who you are obviously she's having an incredible moment because of the success of season two of white lotus and like white is too i thought they're both very funny there was like 11 and a half minutes of jennifer coolidge just talking during this award show it's just like that's a lot to ask uh for an audience as much as i like her um for for a three and a half hour show um that was quite a bit although not as much as I like her for a three and a half hour show. That was quite a bit. Although not as much as Ryan Murphy with I think his award speech was clocked in around

four hours and 12 minutes, which is that was staggering. Have you ever watched a Ryan Murphy television show? Yeah, of course. I loved Glee. Oh, you did? Okay.

Yeah. Anything since Dahmer? I'm a human. I skipped Dahmer, though was happy to see Evan Peters I haven't really checked in on him since Mayor of Easttown um his speech was very serious and elegant I thought he was like very composed yeah I I remember that from his acceptance speech for Mayor of Easttown as well and that's really all I know about him. But I'm happy for him. Seems like an intense fellow. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm sure I've watched. Oh, I watched American. Which one was the OJ show? Crime Story. Crime Story. Watched that. Should we just name Ryan Murphy shows for the length of his speech?

Sure. Nip Talk. Have you seen that? No, I skipped that one. American Horror Story. I read a lot of blog posts about it it's almost the same thing right pose did you watch pose i didn't watch pose i'm just doing this off the top of my head he has several television shows right oh i have seen eat pray love uh which i forgot he directed starring julia roberts well he thanked julia roberts in his acceptance speech

and i was like wait a second is julia here tonight And then I was just Googling what he did with Julia Roberts. Anyway, at some point, I that's when we put my son to bed was during that. It did coincide with his bedtime. So thank you to Ryan Murphy and the Golden Globes for that. And then my son, who was kind of being a monster tonight, though I love him, was thankfully asleep for the eddie murphy cecil b demille award which was great because my husband just sat down and he just like laughed at two second clips of eddie murphy snl skits for and that was like the best part of the whole night you know it was really good was when eddie murphy was on snl that was funny yeah i miss i there's really nothing like gumby gumby is the thing that

every time i see it it's the best uh the most memorable moment of course from eddie murphy's uh honorary award speech was the closing bit uh eddie murphy gave a very he gave a very short very quiet speech very simple just clear thank yous to his family and the people that he's been working with for more than four decades in Hollywood. And then he said that there is a clear blueprint for success in Hollywood. I believe what he said was there are three keys. One is to pay your taxes. Two is to mind your own business.

And three is to keep Will Smith's wife's name out of your fucking mouth, which he said at the top of his lungs. Obviously, a direct reference to the incident at the Academy Awards last year. And, you know, as many people have cited, Eddie Murphy and Chris Rock are very close. And, you know, as part of a lineage of black comics, Dry Carmichael, I think, also had quite a lot of fun with Eddie Murphy's joke. I don't know if you observed him in the wings there. Oh, no, I didn't see it. He had attempted a Will Smith joke earlier, which kind of fell flat. Some of his more topical jokes like didn't really lit.

And it's not fair to be like, you know, to compare anyone to Eddie Murphy. But like Eddie Murphy landed that plane, you know? Yeah. And he like, he really was just so patient. You know, he really just, I was like, wow, is he like on a Xanax or something right now? This is really a mellow Eddie Murphy. And he just nailed it, which is not surprising.

We love Eddie Murphy. Couple of other things. Austin Butler's. Yeah, the voice, the voice. Let's just, we gotta, that that's so as soon austin butler won for elvis for best actor in a in a drama even though elvis is a musical whatever and as soon as he started speaking and the 300 000 people that were watching the golden globes texted each other is that what he really talks like? Is he just talking like Elvis?

Did he like, is he just Elvis now? He is just doing the Elvis voice, I guess. I need to do a forensic breakdown of the entire speech. Okay. Because the whole thing is very important to me. Now, one, I really was not a fan of Elvis. Two, I was very admiring of Austin Butler's performance. I have no issue with him winning awards. He seems like a very promising young movie star. I'm a million percent in on him now. This is now like all of my stock is in him.

This is what he did when he got on stage. First of all, he gave a pound to Quentin Tarantino sitting at the Babylon table. Shout out to Quentin sitting at the fucking Babylon table. Then he gave a pound to Brad Pitt. Two people that he worked with on a film called Once Upon a Time in Hollywood four years ago. And then on stage started talking to them like he'd never met them before and that they are his heroes from when he was a small boy.

He said to Quentin, I printed out the script to Pulp Fiction when I was 12 years old, which I did as well, of course. Right. But he knows Quentin. Why did he say that in the speech? It's fine.

But I told Quentin that to his face when we met. So the thing that's crazy is he likes the Awshucks thing he sold me on and simultaneously doing it as Elvis. He was like,

Mama, we need to get cartridges in the print printer jet so i can get page 89 of pulp fiction out like what the hell was he doing it was so insane and also just like so charisma overwhelming simultaneously like i was texting you like what is happening why is he talking like this? Also being like, this is like the tallest, handsomest man that I've ever seen in my entire life. The closest comp I can give is when Ryan Gosling kind of just started talking like Marlon Brando for like five years there. You remember? Cause he was just like, I'm going to be a Brando. And like, maybe it was like trying to lose his canadian accent or something but he was just doing a brando impression and you were like i don't know why you're talking like that but also

i can't look away from you and i sort of don't have words and that's kind of how i feel about also i he probably had it sewn up before but the sentence like austin butler accepting his golden globe in an elvis voice like probably locked down the best actor oscar for him like that like i think that that's the moment like when he just showed up and everyone was like he's talking like elvis like i think doesn't it go the other way like isn't it't it like, oh, so he just is Elvis? That's not a very impressive performance. No, because people, the Academy voters are just like, oh, wow, someone became something else. No one cares.

Like, everyone tonight is just being like, oh, that young man, you know, he's won. I'm sorry. But he's not, he's from Anaheim. He's not from Mississippi. What's going on there? I was I've already spent some time thinking about like he's dating Kaya Gerber, Cindy Crawford's daughter and Randy Gerber. He of Casamigos Tequila's daughter. And I'm just like, does he talk to kaya gerber like this is kaya

gerber like hey babe like do you want to go to fred siegel and he's like sure honey like let me just you know get my jacket like what kaya when your when your mama and your stepdaddy sold casamigos for a billion dollars did y'all move into a new house did you move into a grace land that's her isn't that is that oh that's her father randy randy gerber oh yeah that's that's a that's a love for kaya gerber that's okay that's daddy okay okay sorry yeah i mean that's that's it's just really strange and honestly i'm in i just i'm really happy for austin that's the thing everyone else everyone's in now and so he's just gonna win the oscar but like i will say he what he obviously is up against his fiercest competition is currently colin farrell in who won tonight and i thought also gave a very funny speech charming as always the king of the

irish colin farrell and also brendan fraser who you know did not attend tonight's award show and of course is um i guess quietly boycotting the HFPA, given his history and the allegations that were made against that organization. So that's a complicated and pretty interesting three-way race at the moment, especially in part because I will be buying billboards for Austin Butler all along Hollywood Boulevard over the course of the next week or so. All Austin Butler, though, has to do to just completely obliterate the competition is to find a public opportunity to shout out Jenny the donkey in the Elvis voice. And then it's over, you know? Mama, is Jenny really dead? It's so good. it's so special i'm so proud of him um were there any other good speeches did we get any any michelle yos was great colin farrell's was great uh kiwi quans was great austin butler's was great we didn't get a cape blanchett speech unfortunately she was not present um amanda

seyfried also was not present because she was deep in creating a new musical for us. I'm not sure if you caught that. I did. That's why I'm not available for any future Marvel episodes is because I'm deep in creating a new musical. That was quite fascinating. I thought Angela Bass's speech was pretty good.

I think she's probably saving some of her her notes for the the I think what feels like a kind of inevitable academy award win now I think the people that she's competing against that she competed against tonight are likely to be the people that she's competing against at the academy awards Carrie Condon Jamie Lee Curtis Dolly DeLeon and Carrie Mulligan and I don't know her gale force charisma seems to be overwhelming that pack right now. I feel great about that. So did my son, who was in the room for that part of the ceremony. And as I mentioned earlier, he was not behaving well, but he was wrapped. And then he tried to speak to Angela Bassett, even though he doesn't speak. And then he started

applauding when everyone else applauded. So that's the power that she has um what do you think of steven spielberg's acceptance of best director i was very moved by it it was really good speech it was really good and because it's like very it's the good it was the good kind of self-aware. He was just kind of like, yeah, I have been working up to this my whole life and you can see it in ET and you can see it in close encounters at which like, I was definitely part of the reason that Fableman spoke to me and, you know, he thanked his family and he was like, it's hard. And to, to say these things out loud. And I finally got to a place where like I could do it I like I I found it to be like vulnerable but not in a cringy way and just kind of honest and that to me is what's really interesting about the film and I thought it was great and somehow also not

self-aggrandizing even though once again that movie can be read as just like a movie about how I got great, you know? But it's more complicated. And he is speaking about it, I think, like pretty effectively. I feel like this is the Oscar season of films that will be kind of revived and resuscitated over the next five to 10 years over and over again. Even if they win the biggest prizes, I still feel like The Fablemans is slightly misunderstood and

certainly as you and I have talked about more odd than it was being pitched as and there was like a kind of like certainly a highly emotional and psychological and almost like psychosexual element to the film that like even he seems to be like getting close

to while talking about it in a way that you don't usually see from like our brand name grandfatherly entertainers and so it was it was interesting to see him win especially on the heels of not even being long listed for the BAFTA best director nominee nominees last week would the the BAFTA things I spent at least 20 minutes trying to understand the nominating process. And I read all of the instructions for each category multiple times. And I have no idea. So in some ways, I understand that that is an egregious snub or really notable.

And in other ways, I'm just like, the math is too complicated. You've made it too involved. We probably won't spend too much time on the BAFTAs this season. They're like an organization that is in a state of evolution because they're changing the way that they nominate now.

And like, for example, that long list that I was just talking about necessarily had to feature eight male nominees and eight female nominees. And so that is one factor. But part of the reason why I was so surprised by that was just because I feel like

we're kind of heading towards the Spielberg Best Director, his first Best Director win in over two decades. And so this even further deepens that feeling. You would have said that before tonight?

I think so. Because I don't think it's as strong in Best Picture as it was, although, and this is really where I wanted to take this conversation, you know, it won Best Motion Picture Drama, the quote-unquote big prize at this show,

which we have not said up until this minute, 33 minutes into this conversation. Whatever. The nominees were Avatar, The Way of Water, Elvis, Tar, Top Gun, and The Fablemans. And The Fablemans won. And then when it happened, I was like, oh yeah, okay, I guess that makes a lot of sense.

The Fablemans was the favorite for a long time. It doesn't have to compete against a couple of the other favorites in this category. And so it won. And so what does this mean now? Like, is it back to being in a position of power in this race? I was, I was surprised. So I would love for you to elaborate on you on this, like making sense. I mean, I understand it won the people's choice at Toronto, you know, it's Steven Spielberg, it's like pedigreed. It's, you know, the, the power of cinema and the power of, you know, personal expression or whatever. But I was like, huh, really these guys. And I think some of it is that for all of the, you know, podcasting that we have done making fun of these people and even kind of being skeptical of their reinvention. I don't really understand now who votes for the Golden Globes. I don't know what the new HFPA voter base is.

I don't even know how to make fun of their quirks. It's just me and CR. That's where the only people voting now. Yeah. it's just me and CR that's where the only people voting now but I would not have guessed that it would go that Fablemans I would not have predicted Fablemans as the winner of the old HFPA

let's put it that way in 100 meters turn right actually no turn left there's some awesome new breakfast wraps at McDonald's really? yeah there's the sausage bacon and egg a crispy seasoned chicken one mmm a spicy end egg worth the detour they

sound amazing bet they taste amazing too wish i had a mouth take your morning into a delicious new direction with mcdonald's new breakfast wraps add a small premium roast coffee for a dollar plus So I'll give you my thinking on this. Yeah. One, Avatar the Way of Water was not released when the nominations came out for this. And the film only got two nominations for Best Director and Best Motion Picture Drama. So it was not strong at this show, at this body. Two, Tar is much too arty a title for the Golden Globes. Very rarely has a film that arty

won for an award like this. Three, Top Gun Maverick, of course, is produced and stars Tom Cruise, who recently returned his Golden Globes. Sure, right. Setting up the most vicious joke of the evening. The Shelley Miscavige joke from Gerard Carmichael, which was, frankly, when it happened,

I was like, wow, can you say that on live television? And he didn't. I thought it was funny, but also quite dark. And then the fourth film is Elvis. Now, we might be thinking Elvis would be the one competing against the Fablemans, but my interpretation of this Fablemans victory is that this is the Globe saying, take us seriously. We're not the place that just throws best drama at the glitzy musical that is miscategorized. We are a serious

institution of arts critics and journalists, and we want to be taken seriously. And the best way to do so is to award, you know, the king of Hollywood, you know, the main driver of family entertainments for the last four decades in Steven Spielberg. And so they did it, right? They sort of like in an attempt to legitimize themselves all over again, they've given something good and interesting and complex, but also in its way kind of safe on the surface. It's a big surprise. Can I give you my conspiracy theory? Of course.

Fableman's is a universal movie, which is owned by Comcast, which also owns NBC, which until now has aired the Golden Globes. And they would like to be taken seriously and have a future home. I don't actually think that that's the case at all, but well, if we had seen more advertisements for the Fableman's premiere on Peacock, I might have suspected something there, but you never know.

The tar is also a, a Comcast property as it was released by Focus Features. I'm not above some speculative concepts of corporate collusion in the face of award shows. I was just trying to get my JMO on a Tuesday night. Do you know who wins the Jennifer Lopez award for the most earnestly disappointed Golden Globes loser? I suppose, that would be Baz Luhrmann, who I've never seen anyone more excited when Austin Butler won his award. Baz Luhrmann was like, we did it. He was on camera for two seconds and Baz Luhrmann was like, all my dreams are coming true. And then my man was never in front of the camera again. I enjoy the work of Baz Luhrmann. So, you know, I hope he's proud of everything he did. And Jennifer Lopez has gone on

to live a rewarding life and find love once again. So I think it's going to be okay for him. Here's my review of Baz Luhrmann's filmography. Strictly Ballroom, Sick, Romeo and Juliet, one of my favorite Shakespearean adaptations. After steep precipitous drop off a cliff the decision to leave cliff death than all of his other movies that's how I feel okay okay I think that this is a significant blow for the Elvis momentum is my tea Austin Butler will win and give another speech. Kaya, when daddy sold his tequila, did you say to yourself, we're going to be rich forever?

I really like that, whatever he's doing there. I'm not so sure he's going to win. I think he's in a good spot. I think Colin Farrell on the trail. I've encountered Colin Farrell in person. It is a mighty, mighty force. So I encourage people to defy him if they can, because they will find trouble. I would be.

I, too, would be overwhelmed. I would be overwhelmed by both of them in similar but different ways. And you're right that every once in a while, not every once in a while, in recent years, there have been kind of late-breaking surprises in Best Actor and Best Actress. So I don't disagree with you, but I'm also like, oh, okay. Congratulations to Elvis, a.k.a. Austin Butler. I was just trying to think, when. Congratulations to Elvis, aka Austin Butler. I was just trying to think, when's the last time a kid won Best Actor? I guess you could say Rami Malek was young, but even when he won, he was like 38. He wasn't that young. It's very rare that someone, you know, the ingenue, of course, often wins in Best Actress.

Right. But man, I'm just looking back at the history of the category here, and, I mean, maybe Adrian Brody, right? He was in his, maybe his late 20s when he won for The Pianist. I mean, that's pretty rare stuff. So it would be out of step

with the traditions of the Academy, but that doesn't really mean anything. The other film that obviously had a huge night is The Banshees of Indischarne, which we just, on our last power rankings, were saying we feel like there's a lot of goodwill towards right now. Martin McDonough did very well with Three Billboards

outside of Ebbing, Missouri as well. Love Martin McDonough. They do. And so he won for screenplay tonight as well. I think there's a strong chance he will win for screenplay at the Academy Awards. And he won Best Musical or Comedy. Do you think this alters any of our discussion with Joanna last week at all?

Does it meaningfully shift any of the films in the Best Picture race around? I guess maybe it bumps Fableman's up slightly in the sense of the golden globes primarily in the oscar waves serve as like a front of mine machine for voters and viewers alike of like oh you haven't seen this or do you remember this or maybe you should take this seriously and for performers it's like if it's kind of the the knighting before the crowning or something. That's not actually how knights and royalty work, but whatever. And for the movies, it's like it can just be a nudge. So Fableman's, which we were completely discounting with Joanna and we're like no one's even seen it maybe people will seek it out um

or even academy voters I don't know I it's hard to know how seriously academy voters will take anything that the Golden Globes do because they don't matter you know and there's not like a huge amount of overlap and And it's like, they've like the, what the golden globes were trying to win back tonight in terms of, I don't know, respect or something was like basically a TV deal and money and the, and the ability to keep going.

They weren't trying to win back like their decision-making or abilities with respect to the Oscars or, or even the respect of the Academy. So I, I don't know. It probably helps Fableman's, but I still don't think I wouldn't put Fableman's at number one on our power list. Let me ask you a quick sidebar question about the Royal family,

since there's a lot going on there. Sure. Yeah. What, what was Prince Harry harry's title before he abdicated well he hasn't given up any of his titles so he is still technically can't believe i'm doing this full thing he's still an hrh which means his royal highness prince harry the duke of sussex okay the duke of sus. So if he gives it up, is that like an open position? Is

that like general manager of the Charlotte Hornets? Like, could I apply for that job? I don't think that you could apply, but it could be given to you. Would the King Charles consider me for the role? um i think that he does like films and yeah he likes films and he likes old things and he's pretty finicky as i understand it and might respect your organizational system and your passion for archiving um so do you think i should put him on the the jmo mailing list sean do you think that'll improve your i i likelihood of getting the duke of sussex position yeah i think he might be interested in some of our views on um the global economy and so with that in mind and and on our relationship to zelinski as well i feel like you know his royal highness might want to bestow upon me some additional titles in addition to uh the lord of letterbox and the king of tiktok I think

so it's pretty hard to get a dukedom without like marrying in you know but we could probably secure you like an earl you know we have any single gals out there in the Royal family who I could be introduced to. I'm trying to think, is it bigamy if you get married in another country? Yes, I think so. I don't know. Which country is it?

Bigamy, right? No, that's a, that's a great point. But you remember, did you finish the first season of the crown? I did.

Yes. Yes. So the church plays a big role in deciding who these people can and can't marry. So I think it would be bigamy in the eyes of, you know, God, their God anyway. I'm glad we got to the bottom of this. I appreciate your expertise in these matters. Returning to the Fablemans,

you know, actually the movie that I am curious about most in the aftermath of this award show is Everything Everywhere All at Once. Yeah, I don't think that that is necessarily a Golden in the aftermath of this award show is everything everywhere yeah yeah i i don't i don't think that that is necessarily a golden globes kind of a movie it is the movie that if you asked me with like my head pressed against the wall what's going to win best picture i still think it's everything everywhere all at once there's still something telling me that it's that movie now i think but i. I think that, yeah. After tonight, though, I'm wavering on that. And in part, it actually had a good night.

It had two acting awards, and it was center stage for a lot of the conversation in the evening. Unlike a movie like Babylon, which came into this award show before it's released, like House on Fire, and only got an award for Justin Hurwitz for his score, which is an absolute diamond of a score. And this is his fourth Golden Globe, I think for his fourth, is it his fourth film with Chazelle that he has Golden Globes for? Anyhow, he's fantastic.

But you look at the performance tonight of Babylon and you're like, okay, maybe it's kind of petering out in the race. You could read it that way. Everything, everywhere, maybe it's kind of petering out in the race. It's, you could read it, read it that way. Everything, everywhere at once.

I don't know. It feels like a quiet best actress and supporting actor night. Maybe if, I don't know if, if Jamie Lee Curtis had also won, I might've felt like, wow, there's like a swell,

you know, and now there's a big push. So I, do you feel differently about that one? I've always kind of felt that that's one of the, it's a, not small, like a sizable, but not majority level pocket of like huge enthusiasm, you know? And so people are very vocal about it. And obviously it's done very well and made a lot of money and, and which is, which is

great, but also kind of brings attention, you know, because then you have the box office stories written. But I just always kind of thought it was like a very loud movie rather than, and sometimes we confuse like the loudness of a fan base for the dominance in their race. I kind of wonder if it's similar to an RRR situation, which maybe we can then talk a little bit about RRR, which is another movie that's done very well and has a lot of enthusiasm around it. Myself included and did win tonight for original song for just like the absolute dynamite dance break, like about an hour in with the suspenders. But it's a similar thing here. And especially like among the award circuit, they're doing a lot of screenings here and there are big dance parties and people are like, oh, this is a, you know, I think Jason Blum recently, you know, was made his prediction that RR would win best picture.

There's a lot of goodwill and a lot of momentum around it and then as you noted Argentina 1985 a film I have not yet seen because I was triaging all the international features and didn't think I needed to see it yet um one international feature instead of RRR so again like the enthusiasm is undeniable. How wide is it? I'm not totally sure for either of those movies. That's such an interesting race because there's this expectation that there are these heavyweights, right? That a new Park Chan-wook film, especially one that is not a horror film, is always going to be a serious contender, especially in the aftermath of South Korean cinema getting that huge boost from Parasite's win. He's so he's so widely respected among the directors. There's still a contingent of people who think he's going to be nominated for best director, even if that film doesn't get a best picture nomination, which certainly seems plausible.

You know, RRR is one of the big global box office sensations of 2022. In addition to the fact that it has been available on Netflix for six months and that a lot of people have watched it. And as you say, they're just pushing this incredible campaign to get support from this movie. J.J. Abrams

introduced the film last night at a sold-out screening at the Chinese Theater on the rainiest night that I can remember in 11 years in Los Angeles. So there is a fervor for that movie. And then there's also Bardo, which of course comes from like a hugely celebrated international filmmaker. And close, which I'm going to have Lucas don't on the on the show later this week, I'm going to talk to him later this week for a conversation to be released later. That is one of the most emotionally crushing

movies that I saw last year. It has been a little bit quieter on the margins in part because it only played, I think it premiered at Cannes and then played the fall festivals, but it hasn't been really released yet in the States. If Argentina 1985, which is this very good film,

it is like a courtroom drama. Effectively, it is about the way the power operates in South America, but it feels smaller relative to some of these other films. And so I guess it's exciting

that there's like a little bit of intrigue there. It could also just be like, I don't know, latent Globes wonkiness coming in there. I can't really wrap my head around what how that happened i again have not seen it though when i googled it i learned it was a courtroom drama and then you know how google results will now give you like three adjectives that it's pulled from a word cloud of reviews which is very upsetting

and it was all it said was like bleak like depressing or whatever it was like oh great okay i thought you were gonna say it said mama casamigos argentina did it not say that no but aside from banshees it did feel a little bit like they were trying at least somewhat to spread the wealth a little bit in the awards. I mean, you know, Fableman's got two. Banshees got three. Everywhere. Everything I once got to RR got one. Tar got one.

I mean, you know, basically everything but my beloved Top Gun Maverick won an award. So, you know, Babylon even got score. You know what? That's it. That's there's no accounting for taste. And that's just the HFPA's fault. So I noticed you didn't reference Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio also receiving an award.

Yeah. Please put some respect on his name as he put some respect on the medium of animated feature filmmaking. Mm hmm. Great. Great. Congratulations. I thought it was live action, honestly. You thought Pinocchio was...

You thought it was a live action Pinocchio? Yeah. Are you on drugs? Wasn't there a live action Pinocchio this year? There was by Robert Zemeckis, but action Pinocchio this year there was by Robert Zemeckis but the Pinocchio was animated he wasn't a real boy

he's a fucking puppet well I thought it was like a puppet who then became that's the story of Pinocchio Amanda it's like Megan I can't wait to talk to you about how they made Megan how they made Megan that's what you want to talk about you mean how they made the film Megan or how they made Megan. How they made Megan? Yeah. That's what you want to talk about? You mean how they made the film Megan or how they made the doll Megan? The doll Megan. Okay. Okay.

Who's actually a real girl as it turns out. Like Megan basically is Pinocchio. If you want me to watch Pinocchio, make Megan. That's what I have to say. Okay. Don't spoil any of our Megan conversation, which is coming in just a few short days and will certainly be one of the most normal conversations we've ever had as friends and podcasters. I, gosh, I just feel like kind of nothing changed except maybe Spielberg got a little bit of a bump tonight. That's essentially my takeaway. I think that's valid.

I agree with you. Did you, were you even paying attention during the television awards? Like, I don't, like, you don't watch Abbott Elementary, right? You didn't watch House of the Dragon. You didn't watch White Lotus. So some of the big winners are not really in your... I tried watching Abbott Elementary,

but it was early Knox days, and I just kind of couldn't get into the rhythm. It seems charming. I've also forgotten how to watch sitcoms. I guess I've forgotten how to watch most TV. I haven't watched it a ton. It's good. I think it's like it is just a updated version of something that seemed very like modern and impressive when The Office came out.

And then that became like a traditional storytelling style. And now it just if you do a good version of that, it gets celebrated. And it is a good version. Yeah, but all of those people seem to enjoy their work and each other. And so that's great. I'm happy for all of them. I did watch three episodes

of House of the Dragon before I quit because it sucked. Also, Miguel Sapochnik, who accepted the award for House of the Dragon, also quit. So that was interesting. And he did not quiet quit.

And yet somehow he was empowered to receive that award on stage. And he also seemed quite drunk, if I'm being honest. Yeah, good for him. And yeah, White Lotus, I didn't, I just, I missed the train. I've been thinking about getting on the train,

but I have some other things I have to watch first, you know, like a lot of movies. So a handful of very famous people won in the tv side Kevin Costner for Yellowstone as you said Zendaya for Euphoria I'm sure Chris and Andy will recap all of this on the watch um later this week Jeremy Allen White who is an absolute oh yeah the bear one for the bear he gave a very emotional and cool speech I like him a lot. Um, and what was the, Oh,

the one, the one show that I was like, I'm going to watch this show now is Blackbird, which is on Apple TV plus. And my guy, Paul Walter Hauser won and gave an amazing speech with a Pulp Fiction name reference. I just,

I just don't understand how he is not a bringer podcaster. You know what I mean? He's the all-time best big picture guest. Just started doing A Few Good Men from Memory, which is the quickest way to my heart. It's beautiful stuff. He dropped It's a Wax Museum with a pulse within seconds. Looked right at Tarantino. Huge night for Tarantino, huge night for Brad Pitt, who got shouted out from the stage by

like every woman that went on stage, which I thought was fascinating. Did you notice also there was one camera angle that was behind the winners. And so it showed two tables like kind of blurry. But like Brad Pitt sitting in the front row was like very visible as like a active audience member and he was just always there and he was always looking up like engaged you know Brad Pitt obviously knows how to play this game but like Brad Pitt's listening face was on all night and it was very good it did make me think that he was making the bid for something that we have talked about many times with Bill Simmons which is the who takes the Jack Nicholson spot of, you know, the uncle, the purveyor of award shows.

The person who sits in the front row could be Brad Pitt. Probably not because he's in a movie this year and was nominated at the Globes. And so that's why he was there. But you never know. He obviously has a big production company which produces films that are often nominated for academy awards so it's possible um any other reflections any other anything we missed anything absurdly bland or incredibly funny that you wanted to cite uh rihanna i believe showed up 30 minutes late she did with asap rocky yeah with with rocky they looked great but they didn't walk the carpet

showed up 30 minutes late which let me be very clear is her right um was not given an award which you know that's their choice i guess um but then stayed and seemed to you know was smiling as every single person shouted her out which she looks beautiful i I too would be like, oh my gosh, Rihanna. But honestly, I don't think she had to stay the whole night and she did. I wanted to, since you mentioned Rihanna's nomination for best original song and we mentioned Natu Natu won, I did just want to shout out the song Ciao Papa, which appears on Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio,

which is a song that I now sing to my daughter in what I imagine her voice will be when I put her to sleep. So, it's a very normal thing that I do. It's kind of like Pinocchio. The way that Geppetto manifests into his puppet what he hoped

the vision of a new humanity could be. you following me on this it's kind of like ai also the steven spielberg film you honestly have to stop talking about pinocchio if you don't want me to spoil the megan podcast okay pinocchio is good pinocchio that's just a teaser of what's to come okay um i think we can wrap things up uh i'm i this was a very very normal award show in many ways and i'm i'm honestly i'm thankful for that i'm thankful for that i'm thankful for your positive attitude through this conversation um i'm thankful for the the magic that pinocchio has brought to all of our lives. I'm thankful for Austin Butler's Elvis voice. I want to say, Mama, thank you for Pinocchio. Thank you to our incredible producer, Bobby Wagner, for staying up late on the eastern coast of the United States

to produce this episode. Thanks, Bob. And tune in later this week on The Big Picture because as Amanda noted, we will be diving deep into Megan. We'll see you then.